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Thread: Should the Penn State Football Program receive the Death Penalty?

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    Default Re: Should the Penn State Football Program receive the Death Penalty?


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    Default Re: Should the Penn State Football Program receive the Death Penalty?


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    Default Re: Should the Penn State Football Program receive the Death Penalty?

    While PSU didn't necessarily break any NCAA football regulations, there is definite justification to ending the program for a couple of years. The lack of control and complete disregard for human welfare over the course of decades is mind-boggling. I don't know if we'll see a death penalty of sorts, though this whole ordeal may essentially be one in of itself.
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    Default Re: Should the Penn State Football Program receive the Death Penalty?

    As much as I dislike Penn State (not just recently but for about the last 30 years) there will never be another "Death Penalty" (in the football program) assessed against a major Division One school again. IMHO.

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    Default Re: Should the Penn State Football Program receive the Death Penalty?

    The Penn State school should receive the death penalty.

    Liquidate it and divide it amongst the Sandusky victims.

    Then try again, folks.

    Football isn't what failed here. Leadership , and thus, the representation of an institution did.
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    Default Re: Should the Penn State Football Program receive the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by slorch View Post
    The Penn State school should receive the death penalty.

    Liquidate it and divide it amongst the Sandusky victims.

    Then try again, folks.

    Football isn't what failed here. Leadership , and thus, the representation of an institution did.
    Probably the best one liner I've read that describes the underlying issue at PSU

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    Default Re: Should the Penn State Football Program receive the Death Penalty?

    All things Penn State should be punished as a whole due to the sacricifing of children for the false image of upholding the institution's integrity.
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    Default Re: Should the Penn State Football Program receive the Death Penalty?

    I just don't see how the death penalty "solves" anything. It was pretty clear how the death penalty solved SMU's rampant cheating and abuse, which was a concerted effort from the top of the University down to multiple players to gain a competitive advantage in football. It was done while SMU was on multiple probations because as Bill Clements said "SMU had a payroll to meet." They kept their coach in place until the atomic bomb dropped.

    I completely believe in massive civil suits against individuals and taking everyone responsible to the cleaners. I believe in removing from their officers every single person who might have known something.

    But what happened at Penn State was a crime and was negligence. As I stated on another thread "Penn State University" is a public educational institution and not a moral agent. It's unclear to me how shutting down Penn State football would benefit any of the victims in anyway. I can see how it would have a tremendous negative impact on every single scholarship football player on the roster who all of the sudden are being punished because of the actions of a former coach that they knew nothing about. It just doesn't pass the "smell test" for justice.

    Imagine if this was not happening at giant Penn State University and instead took place at your high school, where your kid played. Imagine that the coach in question as well as all the administrators involved were either dead, in jail, or fired. And then imagine that the UIL came and told your kid that he couldn't play his senior year of football because of the actions of these adults that he had nothing to do with and knew nothing about. As justification they said that the "culture" around the school was all about football and that all the fans and boosters needed to be "taught a lesson."

    It could easily happen, and I doubt we would be calling for the same type of punishment. People can be punished for criminal behavior, not institutions.

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    Banned twcpfan1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should the Penn State Football Program receive the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird View Post
    I just don't see how the death penalty "solves" anything. It was pretty clear how the death penalty solved SMU's rampant cheating and abuse, which was a concerted effort from the top of the University down to multiple players to gain a competitive advantage in football. It was done while SMU was on multiple probations because as Bill Clements said "SMU had a payroll to meet." They kept their coach in place until the atomic bomb dropped.

    I completely believe in massive civil suits against individuals and taking everyone responsible to the cleaners. I believe in removing from their officers every single person who might have known something.

    But what happened at Penn State was a crime and was negligence. As I stated on another thread "Penn State University" is a public educational institution and not a moral agent. It's unclear to me how shutting down Penn State football would benefit any of the victims in anyway. I can see how it would have a tremendous negative impact on every single scholarship football player on the roster who all of the sudden are being punished because of the actions of a former coach that they knew nothing about. It just doesn't pass the "smell test" for justice.

    Imagine if this was not happening at giant Penn State University and instead took place at your high school, where your kid played. Imagine that the coach in question as well as all the administrators involved were either dead, in jail, or fired. And then imagine that the UIL came and told your kid that he couldn't play his senior year of football because of the actions of these adults that he had nothing to do with and knew nothing about. As justification they said that the "culture" around the school was all about football and that all the fans and boosters needed to be "taught a lesson."

    It could easily happen, and I doubt we would be calling for the same type of punishment. People can be punished for criminal behavior, not institutions.
    If administrators, coaches, the campus police, the boosters and the Montgomery County sheriffs department covered up a crime to not disrupt football in my community, I would not have a problem if somebody shut it down. The stipulation would be that I would put a waiver on the transfer rules for the innocent student athletes who might want to transfer somewhere else to play.

    Those nutjobs at State College (the community and not necessarily the students) needs to be sent a message because they clearly to this day are clueless about the gravity of the situation. But like I said before, this could easily have happened at several other college towns across the country where football is king and the football coach a lifer like Paterno. I believe that more often than not, they'd cover up the situation. In the end it's all about protecting the town's lifeblood.

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    Default Re: Should the Penn State Football Program receive the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by twcpfan1 View Post
    If administrators, coaches, the campus police, the boosters and the Montgomery County sheriffs department covered up a crime to not disrupt football in my community, I would not have a problem if somebody shut it down. The stipulation would be that I would put a waiver on the transfer rules for the innocent student athletes who might want to transfer somewhere else to play.

    Those nutjobs at State College (the community and not necessarily the students) needs to be sent a message because they clearly to this day are clueless about the gravity of the situation. But like I said before, this could easily have happened at several other college towns across the country where football is king and the football coach a lifer like Paterno. I believe that more often than not, they'd cover up the situation. In the end it's all about protecting the town's lifeblood.

    I was not aware this was common knowledge among boosters at PSU. From everything I have read, knowledge was restricted to a handful of top level people and a few underlings who were likely afraid to lose their jobs.

    I disagree that the "community" of State College is unaware of the gravity of the situation. I think they very likely do understand, but are having terms coming to grips with what happened. I also think that the closer you are to something, the harder it is to react the way outsiders think you should. I also don't think a failure of a community to "understand the gravity" of a given situation is a sufficient reason to hand down sanctions against the football program.

    Let's not forget that the head basketball coach at Baylor University helped to cover up a murder, but the actual NCAA sanctions handed down dealt with actual NCAA rules violations. The coach himself (ie, the person actually responsible) recieved much harsher strictures, as is appropriate. I personally don't feel Baylor showed enough contrition, though . . .

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    Default Re: Should the Penn State Football Program receive the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Firebird View Post
    I was not aware this was common knowledge among boosters at PSU. From everything I have read, knowledge was restricted to a handful of top level people and a few underlings who were likely afraid to lose their jobs.

    I disagree that the "community" of State College is unaware of the gravity of the situation. I think they very likely do understand, but are having terms coming to grips with what happened. I also think that the closer you are to something, the harder it is to react the way outsiders think you should. I also don't think a failure of a community to "understand the gravity" of a given situation is a sufficient reason to hand down sanctions against the football program.

    Let's not forget that the head basketball coach at Baylor University helped to cover up a murder, but the actual NCAA sanctions handed down dealt with actual NCAA rules violations. The coach himself (ie, the person actually responsible) recieved much harsher strictures, as is appropriate. I personally don't feel Baylor showed enough contrition, though . . .
    I'll just respond to the bolded and have actually had conversations with other people about this. MacQuery walked in on a very difficult situation and I'm not sure most that are condemning his non action would not have gone the same route he did given the circumstances, time and place.

    Not going to comment on Baylor because Dawg Fan already thinks I hate them. Given the recent events of cheating over there and the ensuing self imposed punishments, it just seems to me that they're allowed to operate under a different set of rules.

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    Default Re: Should the Penn State Football Program receive the Death Penalty?

    While I feel the Death Penalty for football would be over the top, I do think not letting them go to bowl games or be televised for a couple of years might be a good idea. Most big name schools profit some $$ when going to bowl games and TV coverage. Hit them in the in the pocket book so to speak.

    I also feel like MacQuery should be in jail. To walk in and do nothing to stop what he did has to be a crime... I can only hope that he someday will be forced to pay for his inaction at the time. I also hope that any official that helped in this cover up is removed from the University.

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    Default Re: Should the Penn State Football Program receive the Death Penalty?

    "The president of the NCAA says he isn't ruling out the possibility of shutting down the Penn State football program in the wake of the Jerry Sandusky child sex abuse scandal.

    In a PBS interview Monday night, NCAA President Mark Emmert said he doesn't want to "take anything off the table" if the NCAA determines penalties against Penn State are warranted.

    Emmert said he's "never seen anything as egregious as this in terms of just overall conduct and behavior inside a university." He added, "What the appropriate penalties are, if there are determinations of violations, we'll have to decide." .......

    "This is completely different than an impermissible benefits scandal like (what) happened at SMU, or anything else we've dealt with. This is as systemic a cultural problem as it is a football problem. There have been people that said this wasn't a football scandal," Emmert said.

    "Well, it was more than a football scandal, much more than a football scandal. It was that but much more. And we'll have to figure out exactly what the right penalties are. I don't know that past precedent makes particularly good sense in this case, because it's really an unprecedented problem."

    from the AP.

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    Default Re: Should the Penn State Football Program receive the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrEdward View Post
    "The president of the NCAA says he isn't ruling out the possibility of shutting down the Penn State football program in the wake of the Jerry Sandusky child sex abuse scandal.

    In a PBS interview Monday night, NCAA President Mark Emmert said he doesn't want to "take anything off the table" if the NCAA determines penalties against Penn State are warranted.

    Emmert said he's "never seen anything as egregious as this in terms of just overall conduct and behavior inside a university." He added, "What the appropriate penalties are, if there are determinations of violations, we'll have to decide." .......

    "This is completely different than an impermissible benefits scandal like (what) happened at SMU, or anything else we've dealt with. This is as systemic a cultural problem as it is a football problem. There have been people that said this wasn't a football scandal," Emmert said.

    "Well, it was more than a football scandal, much more than a football scandal. It was that but much more. And we'll have to figure out exactly what the right penalties are. I don't know that past precedent makes particularly good sense in this case, because it's really an unprecedented problem."

    from the AP.
    I read that yesterday. Not sure how I feel about it. How much power should the NCAA have and how far should they reach? On the other hand, I do find his statements valid. My gut feeling is that the NCAA is overstepping their bounds, let the legal system do its work.
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    Default Re: Should the Penn State Football Program receive the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by slcdragonfan View Post
    I read that yesterday. Not sure how I feel about it. How much power should the NCAA have and how far should they reach? On the other hand, I do find his statements valid. My gut feeling is that the NCAA is overstepping their bounds, let the legal system do its work.
    In an election year, politicians would not want to be the ones to pull the trigger on it. They'll leave that bit up to the NCAA.

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    Default Re: Should the Penn State Football Program receive the Death Penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by slcdragonfan View Post
    I read that yesterday. Not sure how I feel about it. How much power should the NCAA have and how far should they reach? On the other hand, I do find his statements valid. My gut feeling is that the NCAA is overstepping their bounds, let the legal system do its work.
    I can't see any way that the death penalty is warranted here. This is not a case where the school has been found guilty of paying players, recruiting violations, etc.

    It doesn't diminish the seriousness of the crimes and the coverup by the administrators. But, if the NCAA has jurisdiction there, then sanction those people for their part in it. Don't punish players who are there now for the sins of those who took part in it then.

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    Default Re: Should the Penn State Football Program receive the Death Penalty?

    Just give them an ultimatum where they can voluntarily change their football specific mascot to the "child molesters" for five years or just not let their football teams into the ncaa eventsfor five years. They can play naia if they want.
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    Default Re: Should the Penn State Football Program receive the Death Penalty?

    "The Joe Paterno statue was removed Sunday morning from its pedestal outside Beaver Stadium, and it will be stored in an unnamed "secure location," Penn State president Rodney Erickson announced. Erickson also said the Paterno name will remain on the university's library.........."

    "Meanwhile, the NCAA said that that it would levy "corrective and punitive measures" against Penn State. The organization announced Sunday that it would spell out the sanctions on Monday but disclosed no details."

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    Default Re: Should the Penn State Football Program receive the Death Penalty?

    Many of those involved with the decision for the SMU death penalty, later felt it was too harsh. they would have as years later after thought, to restrict the number of recruits and years to participate in a bowl game instead of the death penalty. People outside of SMU were hurt financially. Restuarants, bars, motels, stadium workers, maintence, etc.Instead of the death penalty for PSU, recruiting sanctions, limit of scholarship players, no bowl games for x number of years, etc.
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    Default Re: Should the Penn State Football Program receive the Death Penalty?

    • $60 million fine -endowment to fund child victims(equal to one year's football revenue)
    • Banned for Bowl games and post -season 4 years
    • Scholarships reduced from 25 to 15 for four years
    • Any athlete can transfer without sitting out
    • All wins vacated from 1998-2011
    • 5 year probationary period

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