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Thread: This is your Government on drugs..

  1. #41
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    Default Re: This is your Government on drugs..

    Quote Originally Posted by slcdragonfan View Post
    Congressional Fix:
    We should start with term limits.
    Then we should move to changing the health care and other plums of Congressmen/women to match ours.
    Find a way to control contributions to Congresspersons so that they aren't OWNED by lobbiests.
    LIMIT the ability of a Congressperson to work with companies he sat on committees to govern for a period of 5 years (ie, if on the banking committee can't be a lobbiest or work for a bank).

    Current Spending, Waste:
    AT THAT POINT, start taking a serious look at inserting controls into existing programs. For example, there is a LOT OF WASTE in the student loan area. This is still needed, but it should be controlled on how that money can be spent (ie on books, tuition, MAYBE housing/food MAYBE NOT, but definitely not on trips to Europe or drum sets or new stereos).

    Consolidation, elimination, and reduction:
    THEN, consider the across the board cuts. Evaluation of programs no longer needed and eliminated, as well as consolidation of responsibility to a single entity.

    Taxes still need to be raised for some.
    The problem here is the Fed's will create another Agency (more tax dollars) to get rid of the wasteful spending. So what does it buy?

  2. #42
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    Default Re: This is your Government on drugs..

    Quote Originally Posted by slcdragonfan View Post
    Congressional Fix:
    We should start with term limits.
    Then we should move to changing the health care and other plums of Congressmen/women to match ours.
    Find a way to control contributions to Congresspersons so that they aren't OWNED by lobbiests.
    LIMIT the ability of a Congressperson to work with companies he sat on committees to govern for a period of 5 years (ie, if on the banking committee can't be a lobbiest or work for a bank).

    Current Spending, Waste:
    AT THAT POINT, start taking a serious look at inserting controls into existing programs. For example, there is a LOT OF WASTE in the student loan area. This is still needed, but it should be controlled on how that money can be spent (ie on books, tuition, MAYBE housing/food MAYBE NOT, but definitely not on trips to Europe or drum sets or new stereos).

    Consolidation, elimination, and reduction:
    THEN, consider the across the board cuts. Evaluation of programs no longer needed and eliminated, as well as consolidation of responsibility to a single entity.

    Taxes still need to be raised for some.

    Hey Dude! I agree with all of that except the bolded!!!! I didn't think this was possible!!

    I also agree with your earlier stance on cutting DoD spending. You can cut a lot from that and still adequately defend this Nation. The only problem is that pesky Military Industrial Complex. I believe those group of savages owns both the Repubs and Dems.
    I've got a fever! And the only prescription is MORE COWBELL!!


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    Default Re: This is your Government on drugs..

    Quote Originally Posted by ktCarl View Post
    Hey Dude! I agree with all of that except the bolded!!!! I didn't think this was possible!!

    I also agree with your earlier stance on cutting DoD spending. You can cut a lot from that and still adequately defend this Nation. The only problem is that pesky Military Industrial Complex. I believe those group of savages owns both the Repubs and Dems.
    Its not me, its the tent, it is too small.

    The MIC does own them all. Even Eisenhower warned us the MIC.

    We can find common ground if we just are willing to meet somewhere in the middle. That holds true for all of us, not just you and me. I believe we need to deal with the debt, and I believe that we must cut spending. But I also look at history and see that we will need to increase revenue as well. See the Bush I and Clinton years for confirmation...and it did not hurt as much as some would think or imply.
    The rules of comparative advantage are ironclad....and the willingness to let an industry poison your air and water is a comparative advantage. - Firebird

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    All-Galaxy Tom's Avatar
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    Default Re: This is your Government on drugs..

    Quote Originally Posted by slcdragonfan View Post
    Its not me, its the tent, it is too small.

    The MIC does own them all. Even Eisenhower warned us the MIC.

    We can find common ground if we just are willing to meet somewhere in the middle. That holds true for all of us, not just you and me. I believe we need to deal with the debt, and I believe that we must cut spending. But I also look at history and see that we will need to increase revenue as well. See the Bush I and Clinton years for confirmation...and it did not hurt as much as some would think or imply.
    Every time I hear a conservative say that high taxes are no way to grow an economy, I think back to what economic growth was like during the Eisenhower/JFK/LBJ years.

    Then I think about what the top marginal tax rate was then.

    Then my brain starts to hurt. The cognitive dissonance kills.

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    Default Re: This is your Government on drugs..

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom View Post
    Every time I hear a conservative say that high taxes are no way to grow an economy, I think back to what economic growth was like during the Eisenhower/JFK/LBJ years.

    Then I think about what the top marginal tax rate was then.

    Then my brain starts to hurt. The cognitive dissonance kills.
    Its like the emperor's clothes all over again. Just can. not. or. will. not. see. it.
    The rules of comparative advantage are ironclad....and the willingness to let an industry poison your air and water is a comparative advantage. - Firebird

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    5A Texas Football.com Hall of Famer drgnbkr's Avatar
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    Default Re: This is your Government on drugs..

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom View Post
    Every time I hear a conservative say that high taxes are no way to grow an economy, I think back to what economic growth was like during the Eisenhower/JFK/LBJ years.

    Then I think about what the top marginal tax rate was then.

    Then my brain starts to hurt. The cognitive dissonance kills.
    JFK saw the wisdom in tax cuts..Very unusual for a Dem, but he hadn't been corrupted as today's bunch is....LBJ was the father of today's entitlement disaster that we have to rid ourselves of.
    "Democracy is the recurrent suspicion that more than half of the people are right more than half of the time."

  7. #47
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    Default Re: This is your Government on drugs..

    Quote Originally Posted by slcdragonfan View Post
    Its not me, its the tent, it is too small.

    The MIC does own them all. Even Eisenhower warned us the MIC.

    We can find common ground if we just are willing to meet somewhere in the middle. That holds true for all of us, not just you and me. I believe we need to deal with the debt, and I believe that we must cut spending. But I also look at history and see that we will need to increase revenue as well. See the Bush I and Clinton years for confirmation...and it did not hurt as much as some would think or imply.
    Ok now you are going to have to work with me here. We need to raise revenue right. Let's forget for a minute that we are talking about the government, how does one raise revenue. Raise prices or SELL more. Sometimes you have to lower prices to sell more and thus increase revenue, still with me?
    I cannot call my customers and tell them well, I over spent the past few years so I am raising my prices and you just have to deal with it. Prices will have to increase over time but it is normally tied to inflation, cost of labor, raw materials etc and you will see your competitors are doing the same.
    So how does our government increase revenue without raising prices on their customers(tax payer).
    1. Make the country more business friendly so you have more customers paying in that will increase revenue.
    2. Tax the crap out of imports, we are paying them but not requiring other countries to do so. If we can compete with China and the far east in terms or pricing we can once again manufacture here and how many jobs would that create. The Japanese are making cars over here with American workers who by and large are NON UNION making a good living and no one hands are getting cut off and they do not have 8 year olds on the assembly line. Great benefits, little to no layoffs etc etc.
    Oh and their product is superior to American auto makers and price competitive. The Chinese cannot feed their people because of their population. They are buying corn wheat and other products from the US, they need to pay more for it. It is that simple. This will allow us to be cost competitive with foreign products. Would you pay 2% more for a widget if it was made in the USA? I am talking everyday run of the mill stuff. Instead of paying 9.99 would you pay $10.19............I would all day long. Talk about a packaging industry boom. Our US products would be spouting their made in the USA. So lets take the packaging industry as an example. You need a company/ people to design the package, some to design the box, make the box, paper company, printing company, trucking company, packing company, pallet company,shrink wrap what goes into a pallet and it just goes forever, gas in the trucks etc etc etc...............see how this works and pretty easy legislation other than the politicians that are lobbied by China. Can we agree that we should outlaw foreign lobbyists?
    Tax companies that outsource to foreign countries. I read a study that India is now outsourcing to China to save money, there is more getting outsourced to the Philippines. If companies are forced to pay a huge levy or tax to outsource, that will create good paying jobs here.
    3. Co source government with domestic companies. Find products that at the governmental level we can sell to foreign countries. There is technology that we can safely sell to foreign government that US companies can manufacture and or service. Note I said SAFELY.

    This is just a start but these small changes increase revenue by increasing tax payers, profitable companies have to pay corporate taxes, in order to limit that their employees will get better benefits, better matches in their 401K etc etc. They will also get raises and oh yeah pay more taxes.

    This really is not that complicated, it will be difficult to institute but from a thought process it works and can be instituted.

    Thoughts

    PS cut spending drastically.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: This is your Government on drugs..

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonpants View Post
    Ok now you are going to have to work with me here. We need to raise revenue right. Let's forget for a minute that we are talking about the government, how does one raise revenue. Raise prices or SELL more. Sometimes you have to lower prices to sell more and thus increase revenue, still with me?.........
    PS cut spending drastically.
    The bold is where I think we have our biggest disconnect. You state it the way government sees it, that we need to raise revenues. I disagree. Why must government always do everything for everyone? Why not do something truely revolutionary? Why not CUT expenses?

    "I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer".

    -- Douglas Adams

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    Default Re: This is your Government on drugs..

    Quote Originally Posted by b756561 View Post
    The bold is where I think we have our biggest disconnect. You state it the way government sees it, that we need to raise revenues. I disagree. Why must government always do everything for everyone? Why not do something truely revolutionary? Why not CUT expenses?
    Because that would mean the select few need to give up power to the masses and actually serve the masses' best interest instead of their own.
    GO DAWGS!

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    Default Re: This is your Government on drugs..

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawg82 View Post
    Because that would mean the select few need to give up power to the masses and actually serve the masses' best interest instead of their own.
    oh pshaw....

    Quote Originally Posted by b756561 View Post
    The bold is where I think we have our biggest disconnect. You state it the way government sees it, that we need to raise revenues. I disagree. Why must government always do everything for everyone? Why not do something truely revolutionary? Why not CUT expenses?
    The government does not have to do everything for everyone.
    We can and should and must cut expenses.
    IMO, we cannot cut enough to balance the budget without doing some serious harm in some areas. Look at the DoD budget. How much should we cut?

    The taxes proposed are not on everyone, and are ultimately not very harmful to those who will pay. Ask the Oracle of Omaha.

    Bush I understood and risked his presidency to go against his "watch my lips..." statement. He was a brave man and a good president who did what was necessary, ignoring the rhetoric. How much harm was done? How was the decade of the 1990's?

    We also need to create more jobs. This is not the government's role, but they can play a part in it with stimulating industries (such as oil ), and others.

    I personally think we need to roll back the Bush tax cuts. Things were good before those happened.
    The rules of comparative advantage are ironclad....and the willingness to let an industry poison your air and water is a comparative advantage. - Firebird

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    Default Re: This is your Government on drugs..

    Quote Originally Posted by b756561 View Post
    The bold is where I think we have our biggest disconnect. You state it the way government sees it, that we need to raise revenues. I disagree. Why must government always do everything for everyone? Why not do something truely revolutionary? Why not CUT expenses?
    Did you not see my PS?
    Unfortunately we are in a world of debt that government put us in so we cannot cut enough to cover expenses and debt service.

    I do not think we need to raise taxes and I have been very outspoken about making massive cuts.

    I think we think more alike than you think.

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    Default Re: This is your Government on drugs..

    Quote Originally Posted by drgnbkr View Post
    JFK saw the wisdom in tax cuts..
    He also saw the wisdom in issuing the public currency without interest, or not using a central bank debt based currency.

    See EO 11110.

  13. #53
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    Default Re: This is your Government on drugs..

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonpants View Post
    Unfortunately we are in a world of debt that government put us in so we cannot cut enough to cover expenses and debt service.
    What was the mechanism that allowed the Government to shackle we the people with all of this endless debt?

  14. #54
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    Default Re: This is your Government on drugs..

    Quote Originally Posted by slcdragonfan View Post
    oh pshaw....



    The government does not have to do everything for everyone.
    We can and should and must cut expenses.
    IMO, we cannot cut enough to balance the budget without doing some serious harm in some areas. Look at the DoD budget. How much should we cut?..........
    First, we should start with zero-based budgeting. Second, we should make every department account for every dime that is being spent. Third, we need to start firing administrators who allow parts of their budgets to be spent on non-necessary items. (Is it necessary for the government to use tax dollars to send employees to Las Vegas? Is it necessary to spend $900.00 for a toilet seat? etc...) You fire a few administrators and see how fast the others will start toeing the line.

    "I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer".

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    Default Re: This is your Government on drugs..

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonpants View Post
    Did you not see my PS?
    Unfortunately we are in a world of debt that government put us in so we cannot cut enough to cover expenses and debt service.

    I do not think we need to raise taxes and I have been very outspoken about making massive cuts.

    I think we think more alike than you think.
    I think a lot of people agree with your idea of cutting government. 64% of us want less government programs and lower taxes.

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...ca_s_best_days

    "I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer".

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    All-Interweb slcdragonfan's Avatar
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    Default Re: This is your Government on drugs..

    everybody wants less government. Problem is, they want it for the other guy, not the stuff they care about.
    The rules of comparative advantage are ironclad....and the willingness to let an industry poison your air and water is a comparative advantage. - Firebird

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    Default Re: This is your Government on drugs..

    Quote Originally Posted by slcdragonfan View Post
    everybody wants less government. Problem is, they want it for the other guy, not the stuff they care about.
    See my post #54 for my answer to that. I'm not saying that this alone will solve the problem, but I DO believe it would make one heck of a start.

    "I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer".

    -- Douglas Adams

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    Default Re: This is your Government on drugs..

    Quote Originally Posted by b756561 View Post
    I think a lot of people agree with your idea of cutting government. 64% of us want less government programs and lower taxes.

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...ca_s_best_days
    I am all about a much smaller government.
    Start with the IRS and make the tax code simple, it is over 72,000 pages.

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    Default Re: This is your Government on drugs..

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonpants View Post
    I am all about a much smaller government.
    Start with the IRS and make the tax code simple, it is over 72,000 pages.
    See, now there's a thought. I bet the public could inform the government of many, many places that waste takes place in government. Again not that this alone will solve the problem, but we all know a little here and a little there and pretty soon you are talking about a substantial amount of money.

    "I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that I don't know the answer".

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    Default Re: This is your Government on drugs..

    Quote Originally Posted by b756561 View Post
    See, now there's a thought. I bet the public could inform the government of many, many places that waste takes place in government. Again not that this alone will solve the problem, but we all know a little here and a little there and pretty soon you are talking about a substantial amount of money.
    like maybe a trillion?

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