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Thread: LilBradfords First Ever 5A Top 10

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    Default Re: LilBradfords First Ever 5A Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoot2thrill View Post
    Which was the case with Abilene in '09 and we caught a lot of grief over that during the regular season. Post season turned out alright though.
    That was '09 and Abilene had a stellar defense..
    What about the other years?
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    Default Re: LilBradfords First Ever 5A Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by LPBulldogBlog View Post
    The scoreboard is all that matters.

    Arguing about something that has already been decided on the field is moot. I know the offseason isn't exciting.

    La Porte was more than "decent at best".
    The scoreboard is all the matters if you are talking about who won a game but it isn't all that matters when you are discussing who had a better defense. Would be like saying Whitely is a better RB than Taylor because La Porte beat Katy.


    Again, just because team A beat team B it doesn't mean that team A's defense was better. Better team yes, better defense no necessarily.


    Decent at best probably isn't completely fair but I wouldn't go much better than a very good solid football team. No GREAT teams gets beat by 28 points in the playoffs EVER.
    I'll say this - our Region's D2 champion is probably the team to beat in rounds 5&6 - Good Knight

    All I can say is, while we'll be at Jerry World next year, Katy will be nowhere to be seen and won't win R3 next year. They'll suck next year and mark my words! - SCBuffKnight

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    Default Re: LilBradfords First Ever 5A Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by E-Vol-ution View Post
    That was '09 and Abilene had a stellar defense..
    What about the other years?
    I was only talking about '09 sir. It is possible to hammer inferior opponents in the regular season (and catch flack for it) and then back it up with post-season success against playoff teams in the post-season.

    BTW, the 2007 bunch almost did it as well.
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    Default Re: LilBradfords First Ever 5A Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoot2thrill View Post
    I was only talking about '09 sir. It is possible to hammer inferior opponents in the regular season (and catch flack for it) and then back it up with post-season success against playoff teams in the post-season.

    BTW, the 2007 bunch almost did it as well.
    almost did what?
    The rules of comparative advantage are ironclad....and the willingness to let an industry poison your air and water is a comparative advantage. - Firebird

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    Default Re: LilBradfords First Ever 5A Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleeman93 View Post
    The scoreboard is all the matters if you are talking about who won a game but it isn't all that matters when you are discussing who had a better defense. Would be like saying Whitely is a better RB than Taylor because La Porte beat Katy. We may get to see a re-run in 2012 for better judgement. I'd say, look at the OL's. Just me.


    Again, just because team A beat team B it doesn't mean that team A's defense was better. Better team yes, better defense no necessarily. WAIT...HOLD THE PRESSES!!! Did you just insinuate that LP was better than Katy in 2011?


    Decent at best probably isn't completely fair but I wouldn't go much better than a very good solid football team. No GREAT teams gets beat by 28 points in the playoffs EVER. It's happened numerous times according to those who said their teams were great. Funny thing is, LP never mentioned they were a "great" team in 2011. I think that was reserved for the Katy fans speaking of Katy.
    Did I do well for quoting in message? I think you and Maxtor are brothers from different mothers. Have fun on your cut & paste...
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    Default Re: LilBradfords First Ever 5A Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawg82 View Post
    Did I do well for quoting in message? I think you and Maxtor are brothers from different mothers. Have fun on your cut & paste...
    Makes it easier to read if you hit the little return key a couple of times before you start typing.
    I'll say this - our Region's D2 champion is probably the team to beat in rounds 5&6 - Good Knight

    All I can say is, while we'll be at Jerry World next year, Katy will be nowhere to be seen and won't win R3 next year. They'll suck next year and mark my words! - SCBuffKnight

    Fleabag and I better not cross paths or it is not gonna end nicely for him and I will need some bail money! I have not wanted to whoop someone's @ss this bad in a long, long time! - Clemensbuff

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    Default Re: LilBradfords First Ever 5A Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoot2thrill View Post
    I was only talking about '09 sir. It is possible to hammer inferior opponents in the regular season (and catch flack for it) and then back it up with post-season success against playoff teams in the post-season.

    BTW, the 2007 bunch almost did it as well.
    My point is that only a ninny would not recognize how great that defense was and the fact that they could morph into different sets for different opponents.
    That is not the norm.........and most teams will lack adaptability or have a single strength......like run defense or pass defense in an area that doesn't have a diversity of offensive styles to test against.
    Describes a grand synthesis of a long series of changes in the assembly and composition of energy, matter, and life .

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    Default Re: LilBradfords First Ever 5A Top 10

    A lot of discussion on this thread about who had the better defense last year – Katy or La Porte. As an impartial observer, here’s my view.



    Judging a defense is more than looking at points or yards given up per game, and more than an “eye ball” test. Those can provide some insights, but here a couple of additional factors that I think are more meaningful:
    • How the opponents’ offenses fair against the defense, compared to how they do against other defenses. How much under their average does a defense hold its opponents (by rush, pass and total). Holding an opponent to 180 yards of offense seems impressive, but holding a team that averages 350 ypg to 180 yards is much more impressive than holding a team that averages 220 ypd to 180.
    • Ratio of points given up to yards given up. Lower ratios show giving up yards but not points. Good red zone defenses and pinning teams deep in their own territory are things that help with this.
    How opponents faired compared to their averages
    La Porte had an excellent rush defense. They held their opponents nearly 40% below their average rushing yards and an average of 118 rushing ypg. Katy also had an outstanding rush defense, holding their opponents almost 50% below their season averages, and an average of 95 ypg. Pretty close, but slight advantage to Katy.

    Through the season La Porte’s passing defense was just average – they gave up right at 100% of their opponents average passing yards, and about 146 ypg. Katy held their opponents about 1/3 below their season averages, giving up only 86 ypg. LP gave up over 225 passing yards in 5 games. Katy only gave up over 200 yards (205) once. Clear advantage for Katy in passing defense.

    Ratio of points to yards given up
    La Porte gave up an average of 265 ypg and 15.5 ypg. That’s about 5.8 points for every 100 yards given up. Katy gave up an average of 181 ypg and 6.3 ppg. That’s 3.5 for every 100 yards given up. So Katy gave up fewer points for every yard they gave up.

    What happens when factoring in points off of turnovers?
    La Porte’s defense gave up 217 points (15.5 ppg), and their defense scored 49 points off of turnovers. That’s a net of 168 points (12 ppg). Katy’s D gave up 82 points (6.3ppg). But their D only scored 9 points, for a net of 73 (5.6 ppg). Katy looks better here also.

    Bottom line
    La Porte was close on rushing D, but trailed quite a bit in passing D and points given up even after adjusting for points off of turnovers. Seems pretty clear that Katy’s defense was better than LP’s last year. But comparing LP to NS and PAM, LP certainly had the best D in 21-5A last year.

    The LP defense had its best game of the season against Katy. Katy had the right strategy – this was the only game all year that they passed as often as they ran. Given LP’s strong rush defense and average pass D, that seems like the right approach. A combination of LP coming up big and weather that day that was brutal for a passing attack is what did Katy in.

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    Default Re: LilBradfords First Ever 5A Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by rhboiler View Post
    A lot of discussion on this thread about who had the better defense last year – Katy or La Porte. As an impartial observer, here’s my view.




    Judging a defense is more than looking at points or yards given up per game, and more than an “eye ball” test. Those can provide some insights, but here a couple of additional factors that I think are more meaningful:
    • How the opponents’ offenses fair against the defense, compared to how they do against other defenses. How much under their average does a defense hold its opponents (by rush, pass and total). Holding an opponent to 180 yards of offense seems impressive, but holding a team that averages 350 ypg to 180 yards is much more impressive than holding a team that averages 220 ypd to 180.
    • Ratio of points given up to yards given up. Lower ratios show giving up yards but not points. Good red zone defenses and pinning teams deep in their own territory are things that help with this.
    How opponents faired compared to their averages
    La Porte had an excellent rush defense. They held their opponents nearly 40% below their average rushing yards and an average of 118 rushing ypg. Katy also had an outstanding rush defense, holding their opponents almost 50% below their season averages, and an average of 95 ypg. Pretty close, but slight advantage to Katy.

    Through the season La Porte’s passing defense was just average – they gave up right at 100% of their opponents average passing yards, and about 146 ypg. Katy held their opponents about 1/3 below their season averages, giving up only 86 ypg. LP gave up over 225 passing yards in 5 games. Katy only gave up over 200 yards (205) once. Clear advantage for Katy in passing defense.

    Ratio of points to yards given up
    La Porte gave up an average of 265 ypg and 15.5 ypg. That’s about 5.8 points for every 100 yards given up. Katy gave up an average of 181 ypg and 6.3 ppg. That’s 3.5 for every 100 yards given up. So Katy gave up fewer points for every yard they gave up.

    What happens when factoring in points off of turnovers?
    La Porte’s defense gave up 217 points (15.5 ppg), and their defense scored 49 points off of turnovers. That’s a net of 168 points (12 ppg). Katy’s D gave up 82 points (6.3ppg). But their D only scored 9 points, for a net of 73 (5.6 ppg). Katy looks better here also.

    Bottom line
    La Porte was close on rushing D, but trailed quite a bit in passing D and points given up even after adjusting for points off of turnovers. Seems pretty clear that Katy’s defense was better than LP’s last year. But comparing LP to NS and PAM, LP certainly had the best D in 21-5A last year.

    The LP defense had its best game of the season against Katy. Katy had the right strategy – this was the only game all year that they passed as often as they ran. Given LP’s strong rush defense and average pass D, that seems like the right approach. A combination of LP coming up big and weather that day that was brutal for a passing attack is what did Katy in.
    What were those averages like in post season play?
    I'm wondering if they were dramatically different.
    Describes a grand synthesis of a long series of changes in the assembly and composition of energy, matter, and life .

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    Default Re: LilBradfords First Ever 5A Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by E-Vol-ution View Post
    What were those averages like in post season play?
    I'm wondering if they were dramatically different.
    exactly what i was thinking.
    The rules of comparative advantage are ironclad....and the willingness to let an industry poison your air and water is a comparative advantage. - Firebird

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    Default Re: LilBradfords First Ever 5A Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by E-Vol-ution View Post
    What were those averages like in post season play?
    I'm wondering if they were dramatically different.
    How opponents faired compared to their averages
    Rush
    LP: held opponents 44% below their average rushing yards, giving up 135ypg (vs 40% below and 118ypg during the regular season)
    Katy: held opponents 54% below their average rushing yards, giving up 110ypg (vs 50% below and 95ypg during the regular season)
    Both roughly in line with their season averages.

    Pass
    LP: held opponents about 1/3 below their average passing yards, 117ypg (vs at their average and 146ypg)
    Katy: held opponents about 25% below their average passing yards, 98ypg (vs 1/3 below and 95ypg)
    LP had great pass D games against Fort Bend Bush and Katy. Average games against Pasadena Memorial and PAM.

    Ratio of points to yards given up
    LP’s yards against per game dropped slightly to 251 (from 265). Points per 100 yards given up dropped slightly to 5.4 (from 5.8)
    Katy’s yards against per game went up slightly to 207 (from 181). Their points per 100 yards given up increased quite a bit, up to 5.9 (from 3.5).

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    Default Re: LilBradfords First Ever 5A Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by rhboiler View Post
    How opponents faired compared to their averages
    Rush
    LP: held opponents 44% below their average rushing yards, giving up 135ypg (vs 40% below and 118ypg during the regular season)
    Katy: held opponents 54% below their average rushing yards, giving up 110ypg (vs 50% below and 95ypg during the regular season)
    Both roughly in line with their season averages.

    Pass
    LP: held opponents about 1/3 below their average passing yards, 117ypg (vs at their average and 146ypg)
    Katy: held opponents about 25% below their average passing yards, 98ypg (vs 1/3 below and 95ypg)
    LP had great pass D games against Fort Bend Bush and Katy. Average games against Pasadena Memorial and PAM.

    Ratio of points to yards given up
    LP’s yards against per game dropped slightly to 251 (from 265). Points per 100 yards given up dropped slightly to 5.4 (from 5.8)
    Katy’s yards against per game went up slightly to 207 (from 181). Their points per 100 yards given up increased quite a bit, up to 5.9 (from 3.5).
    Thanks.....good stuff.
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    Default Re: LilBradfords First Ever 5A Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by E-Vol-ution View Post
    My point is that only a ninny would not recognize how great that defense was and the fact that they could morph into different sets for different opponents.
    That is not the norm.........and most teams will lack adaptability or have a single strength......like run defense or pass defense in an area that doesn't have a diversity of offensive styles to test against.
    Leave it to a Bowie fan to talk about ninnies.
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    Default Re: LilBradfords First Ever 5A Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by rhboiler View Post
    A lot of discussion on this thread about who had the better defense last year – Katy or La Porte. As an impartial observer, here’s my view.



    Judging a defense is more than looking at points or yards given up per game, and more than an “eye ball” test. Those can provide some insights, but here a couple of additional factors that I think are more meaningful:
    • How the opponents’ offenses fair against the defense, compared to how they do against other defenses. How much under their average does a defense hold its opponents (by rush, pass and total). Holding an opponent to 180 yards of offense seems impressive, but holding a team that averages 350 ypg to 180 yards is much more impressive than holding a team that averages 220 ypd to 180.
    • Ratio of points given up to yards given up. Lower ratios show giving up yards but not points. Good red zone defenses and pinning teams deep in their own territory are things that help with this.
    How opponents faired compared to their averages
    La Porte had an excellent rush defense. They held their opponents nearly 40% below their average rushing yards and an average of 118 rushing ypg. Katy also had an outstanding rush defense, holding their opponents almost 50% below their season averages, and an average of 95 ypg. Pretty close, but slight advantage to Katy.

    Through the season La Porte’s passing defense was just average – they gave up right at 100% of their opponents average passing yards, and about 146 ypg. Katy held their opponents about 1/3 below their season averages, giving up only 86 ypg. LP gave up over 225 passing yards in 5 games. Katy only gave up over 200 yards (205) once. Clear advantage for Katy in passing defense.

    Ratio of points to yards given up
    La Porte gave up an average of 265 ypg and 15.5 ypg. That’s about 5.8 points for every 100 yards given up. Katy gave up an average of 181 ypg and 6.3 ppg. That’s 3.5 for every 100 yards given up. So Katy gave up fewer points for every yard they gave up.

    What happens when factoring in points off of turnovers?
    La Porte’s defense gave up 217 points (15.5 ppg), and their defense scored 49 points off of turnovers. That’s a net of 168 points (12 ppg). Katy’s D gave up 82 points (6.3ppg). But their D only scored 9 points, for a net of 73 (5.6 ppg). Katy looks better here also.

    Bottom line
    La Porte was close on rushing D, but trailed quite a bit in passing D and points given up even after adjusting for points off of turnovers. Seems pretty clear that Katy’s defense was better than LP’s last year. But comparing LP to NS and PAM, LP certainly had the best D in 21-5A last year.

    The LP defense had its best game of the season against Katy. Katy had the right strategy – this was the only game all year that they passed as often as they ran. Given LP’s strong rush defense and average pass D, that seems like the right approach. A combination of LP coming up big and weather that day that was brutal for a passing attack is what did Katy in.
    Are you sure you are an unbiased observer? Actually it really doesn't matter because the stats you provided can't be disputed in any way shape or form. What say you La Porte fans?
    I'll say this - our Region's D2 champion is probably the team to beat in rounds 5&6 - Good Knight

    All I can say is, while we'll be at Jerry World next year, Katy will be nowhere to be seen and won't win R3 next year. They'll suck next year and mark my words! - SCBuffKnight

    Fleabag and I better not cross paths or it is not gonna end nicely for him and I will need some bail money! I have not wanted to whoop someone's @ss this bad in a long, long time! - Clemensbuff

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    Default Re: LilBradfords First Ever 5A Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoot2thrill View Post
    Leave it to a Bowie fan to talk about ninnies.
    Thrill......you know that group was special. That same defense without that group is just good, not great.
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    Default Re: LilBradfords First Ever 5A Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by E-Vol-ution View Post
    Thrill......you know that group was special. That same defense without that group is just good, not great.
    Oh I know. I was at 11 of the 15 games including the one that really mattered. Just had to rib you a little.
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    Default Re: LilBradfords First Ever 5A Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleeman93 View Post
    Are you sure you are an unbiased observer? Actually it really doesn't matter because the stats you provided can't be disputed in any way shape or form. What say you La Porte fans?
    I would say the parcelling of data was fantastic! Even I only thought LP had 42 off T/O's...it is a hard number to track and rh did a great job. I think the data provides a good picture that corraborates what we've all been discussing.
    1. Both teams had very, very good D's.
    2. Katy's D had the numbers to justify their top-notch D at a slightly higher level than LP when considered as a whole season. (Of course, the numbers included an extra blow-out loss for LP in an extra game Katy didn't play because of the previous loss to LP.)
    3. LP and Katy's rush D's were both top of the line, but Katy's pass D was better. Whether this has to do with styles of play by opponents or not can still be questioned. That's okay though...averages are averages.
    The most important point to me is that--provided the numbers--LP's very young team was still improving on D in the playoff's, while Katy's appears to have been softening against PO opponents. (The points allowed provided shows this fairly clearly. LP-Went down from 5.8 to 5.4 in PO's vs. Katy-Up from 3.5 to 5.9 in PO games.)

    Rh's numbers clearly debunk your thoughts that NS had a better D than LP in 2011. Of course--between LP & Katy--we're speaking about minimal differences. A trend towards LP in PO's, yes...but minimal differences. I'd also maintain the different styles of D played. LP had 49 points of T/O's. (How often does this happen?) Katy had 9. Clear difference in styles of D. LP gambled. Katy contained.
    Last edited by Dawg82; 04-17-2012 at 07:05 AM.
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    Default Re: LilBradfords First Ever 5A Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawg82 View Post
    I would say the parcelling of data was fantastic! Even I only thought LP had 42 off T/O's...it is a hard number to track and rh did a great job. I think the data provides a good picture that corraborates what we've all been discussing.
    1. Both teams had very, very good D's.
    2. Katy's D had the numbers to justify their top-notch D at a slightly higher level than LP when considered as a whole season. (Of course, the numbers included an extra blow-out loss for LP in an extra game Katy didn't play because of the previous loss to LP.)
    3. LP and Katy's rush D's were both top of the line, but Katy's pass D was better. Whether this has to do with styles of play by opponents or not can still be questioned. That's okay though...averages are averages.
    The most important point to me is that--provided the numbers--LP's very young team was still improving on D in the playoff's, while Katy's appears to have been softening against PO opponents. (The points allowed provided shows this fairly clearly. LP-Went down from 5.8 to 5.4 in PO's vs. Katy-Up from 3.5 to 5.9 in PO games.)

    Rh's numbers clearly debunk your thoughts that NS had a better D than LP in 2011. Of course--between LP & Katy--we're speaking about minimal differences. A trend towards LP in PO's, yes...but minimal differences. I'd also maintain the different styles of D played. LP had 49 points of T/O's. (How often does this happen?) Katy had 9. Clear difference in styles of D. LP gambled. Katy contained.
    So based on the statistics you agree with him that Katy's defense was better than LP's defense. I knew we would get you there sooner or later.
    I'll say this - our Region's D2 champion is probably the team to beat in rounds 5&6 - Good Knight

    All I can say is, while we'll be at Jerry World next year, Katy will be nowhere to be seen and won't win R3 next year. They'll suck next year and mark my words! - SCBuffKnight

    Fleabag and I better not cross paths or it is not gonna end nicely for him and I will need some bail money! I have not wanted to whoop someone's @ss this bad in a long, long time! - Clemensbuff

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    Default Re: LilBradfords First Ever 5A Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleeman93 View Post
    So based on the statistics you agree with him that Katy's defense was better than LP's defense. I knew we would get you there sooner or later.
    And based on the scoreboard...Katy lost. Next.
    GO DAWGS!

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    Default Re: LilBradfords First Ever 5A Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawg82 View Post
    And based on the scoreboard...Katy lost. Next.
    Agreed, and never disputed.
    I'll say this - our Region's D2 champion is probably the team to beat in rounds 5&6 - Good Knight

    All I can say is, while we'll be at Jerry World next year, Katy will be nowhere to be seen and won't win R3 next year. They'll suck next year and mark my words! - SCBuffKnight

    Fleabag and I better not cross paths or it is not gonna end nicely for him and I will need some bail money! I have not wanted to whoop someone's @ss this bad in a long, long time! - Clemensbuff

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