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Thread: Cornerstone sues UIL

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    Default Cornerstone sues UIL


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    Default Re: Cornerstone sues UIL

    This is exactly what many of us predicted would happen and it will only get worse. Why can't they clean up their own mess instead bringing it to us?

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    Default Re: Cornerstone sues UIL

    as long as they have they same restrictions on recruiting as the other schools let them come in and get their brains beat in. this is a different level that they just do not understand. they will never win state in the big sports (football, basketball, track, ect.); they might be competive at best.
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    Default Re: Cornerstone sues UIL

    It really is a different level - these schools for the most part (with the possible exception of Strake and Dallas Jesuit) can't compete with the big public schools. I was watching highlights of Kincaid and Dallas Episcopal basketball and all I could focus on was how small they were and how most public high schools would have them beaten in the 1st quarter. I say bring them on - let them see what the public schools can bring
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    Default Re: Cornerstone sues UIL

    they might want to talk to jesuit after the cedar hill beating they took. 49-0 at the half. Our j.v. and a couple freshmen played the entire 2nd half and scored twice i think. And they were able to score just one time with those kids in. it was ridiculous.
    Last edited by trainin' the game; 02-12-2007 at 02:01 PM.
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    Default Re: Cornerstone sues UIL

    Aren't they interested more in basketball than football though? That's what I understood. Sounds like they are heavily into recruiting and that would have to be reined in severely.

    As for the beating to Jesuit - we can't talk much! We did have a few shining moments in the game but it just wasn't our day to win. CH was unbelievable. Our injuries didn't help but I'll tell you what - I wouldn't take anything away from the Longhorns even with those injuries...It might have been closer but that's about it.
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    Default Re: Cornerstone sues UIL

    My problem never was with DL and SJ. From everything I have read and know from graduates of DJ, they are great schools that have no intent on becoming athletic powerhouses.

    I do think more parents will see them as attractive alternatives because they are now in the UIL and I expect them to become better.

    Where i see the issue is in smaller, "start-up" schools. Schools that have a vested interest in being good at athletics to build their enrollment and reputation. Like I said before, I have nothing against the two schools that have been admitted, but they did set a precedence.

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    Default Re: Cornerstone sues UIL

    i think it is set up for failure. why would you fight so hard to play in the uil if you did not expect to be competitive? they expected to be competitive they did not think that they were going to have the restrictions on them.

    This is a bunch of kids who want to play and have to go to a private school to do so; they could not play at a public school and their parents have enough money to sue the uil. The education might be better but that is not what we are talking about; if it was they would be happy with competing in tapps.
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    Default Re: Cornerstone sues UIL

    Quote Originally Posted by trainin' the game View Post
    i think it is set up for failure. why would you fight so hard to play in the uil if you did not expect to be competitive? they expected to be competitive they did not think that they were going to have the restrictions on them.

    This is a bunch of kids who want to play and have to go to a private school to do so; they could not play at a public school and their parents have enough money to sue the uil. The education might be better but that is not what we are talking about; if it was they would be happy with competing in tapps.
    Not really true. I can not speak for Dallas Jesuit but the primary purpose for Strake joining UIL wasn't to try to win State Championships, but rather logistics. The school had gotten to big for TAPPS (TAPPS but a cap on the enrollement of schools participating in its league). At that point it became difficult to schedule schools. As you know in UIL after the first 3-4 weeks of the season it becomes next to impossible to play anyone because of district play. So, scheduling became a nightmare.

    Secondly many of the kids who play at Strake could play at other public schools. Some would start, some......maybe not. But there are few parents who will fork over that kind of money, just so their kid can play......that wouldn't make much sense.

    As for them getting their brains beat out not many folks would've beating CH, And DJ was compeititive with Euless when they played earlier in the year. They will get beat by juggarnauts like Katy, SLC and from Stakes perspective some of the teams in 17-5A, but I think, they will give out their share as well.

    IMO you can not look at the Jesuits and Cornerstone under the same lense. They're attempting to come in for an entirely different reason. With UIL's requirement that all privates compete at the highest level's, with their enrollment football will be painful. From the Jesuits perspective 4A would've felt about right, but we are where we are and no one is complaining.

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    Default Re: Cornerstone sues UIL

    The best thing the UIL could do is allow them in and get them to agree to the amended rules that the Jesuit schools agreed to. The problem is the UIL doesn't have a leg to stand on in federal court and if it fights and loses then the floodgates are open for the private schools in Texas.

    Furthermore, I believe if a public school kid ever challenged the authority of the UIL to make them ineligible for a year upon transferring the UIL would probably lose that one also.

    I'm glad we have UIL and I like the rules in place, but if the attitude of the UIL mirrors that of many on this board, it'll be gone before I have grandkids... Hopefully they don't.

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    Default Re: Cornerstone sues UIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Drake View Post
    The best thing the UIL could do is allow them in and get them to agree to the amended rules that the Jesuit schools agreed to. The problem is the UIL doesn't have a leg to stand on in federal court and if it fights and loses then the floodgates are open for the private schools in Texas.

    Furthermore, I believe if a public school kid ever challenged the authority of the UIL to make them ineligible for a year upon transferring the UIL would probably lose that one also.

    I'm glad we have UIL and I like the rules in place, but if the attitude of the UIL mirrors that of many on this board, it'll be gone before I have grandkids... Hopefully they don't.

    Let them in..And get their Butts beat in.

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    Default Re: Cornerstone sues UIL

    Not really true. I can not speak for Dallas Jesuit but the primary purpose for Strake joining UIL wasn't to try to win State Championships, but rather logistics. The school had gotten to big for TAPPS (TAPPS but a cap on the enrollement of schools participating in its league). At that point it became difficult to schedule schools. As you know in UIL after the first 3-4 weeks of the season it becomes next to impossible to play anyone because of district play. So, scheduling became a nightmare.
    Secondly many of the kids who play at Strake could play at other public schools. Some would start, some......maybe not. But there are few parents who will fork over that kind of money, just so their kid can play......that wouldn't make much sense.

    As for them getting their brains beat out not many folks would've beating CH, And DJ was compeititive with Euless when they played earlier in the year. They will get beat by juggarnauts like Katy, SLC and from Stakes perspective some of the teams in 17-5A, but I think, they will give out their share as well.

    IMO you can not look at the Jesuits and Cornerstone under the same lense. They're attempting to come in for an entirely different reason. With UIL's requirement that all privates compete at the highest level's, with their enrollment football will be painful. From the Jesuits perspective 4A would've felt about right, but we are where we are and no one is complaining.
    Actually, I think Strake is holding their own with 17-5a in the other sports - football may have been the exception this year but they did well in basketball this season. And I agree - Jesuits and Cornerstone are two different animals and Cornerstone's reasons just may not float when they can still compete in TAPPS...unless they were allowed to go to a 3A or 4A level.
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    Default Re: Cornerstone sues UIL

    "UIL athletic director Charles Breithaupt said Cornerstone may not join the UIL because TAPPS views the school as eligible. Any rules violations committed by Cornerstone still don't change its eligibility for that league."

    If Cornerstone gets kicked out of TAPPS for recruiting what makes them think they can get away with recruiting in the UIL? Dumb!
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    Default Re: Cornerstone sues UIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Trinity Trojan Fan For Li View Post
    "UIL athletic director Charles Breithaupt said Cornerstone may not join the UIL because TAPPS views the school as eligible. Any rules violations committed by Cornerstone still don't change its eligibility for that league."
    That's a good point... If they were eligible but screwed it up, then their own rules violation is what's preventing their students equal opportunity... The UIL may have a a case to prevent Cornerstone... Since Cornerstone released their lawsuit filings to the media first, I have a strong suspicion they may not be up for a long drawn out legal battle anyway...

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    Default Re: Cornerstone sues UIL

    The Jesuit schools had no private school league to play in. Their league, the TCIL, folded when everyone joined TAPPS. TAPPS and the SPC set enrollment caps that excluded the Jesuit schools.

    The Jesuit schools agreed to follow all UIL rules and agreed to play in 5A.

    Cornerstone got in trouble with TAPPS for breaking the rules. They can't get into the UIL just because they broke the rules in the league they were in. They can play in TAPPS, but they must follow the rules.

    Dallas Jesuit has made the playoffs in football two of the three years they've been in the UIL. Strake Jesuit has made the playoffs one of the three years. Both have won a UIL 5A playoff game, and both have been very competitive within their districts.

    Cedar Hill beat up Jesuit. They also beat up most of the schools they played in the playoffs. And, like Cedar Hill, Jesuit pulled its starters after two series in the third quarter and played all 80+ boys that suited up. Once Cedar Hill put in their backups, Jesuit returned the favor. It was a blowout, but Jesuit's starters were not trying to score on Cedar Hill's second and third stringers.

    I don't know anything about Cornerstone, but they have nothing in common with either Jesuit school.

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    Default Re: Cornerstone sues UIL

    When the original lawsuit was filed to allow the Jesuit schools in, many argued that it was only two schools and not that big of a deal. I was one of those that strongly opposed it and one of my main arquments was that it wasn't a level playing field as far as recruiting goes. For anyone that wants to deny recruiting is a factor consider this. Any kid with the means to go to Strake, whether that be financial or "assisted" and has a way of getting to and from the school each day is allowed to attend if accepted by the school.

    If the kid lives in the Woodlands or Katy or Beaumont even and is willing to make the drive it is allowable. Let me ask those familiar with Strake a question, let's say there was a can't miss superstar in the Woodlands (quite a distance from Bellaire Blvd) and through whatever means it became understood that he would like to attend Strake. His grades are a little below average as far as The Woodlands football team and school as a whole goes. His parents say that the only problem is getting to and from school each day. Another kid that lives nearby attends Strake, not an athelete, there for other reasons. His parents agree to provide the football player with transportation each day even if that causes some inconveniences.

    1) Would this be allowable?
    2) Is that fair?

    My other arguement was that it was only two schools to begin with and others would follow. Well guess what, you can expect many more.
    As far as being forced to play at the highest classification, forget it. If the original UIL charter was kicked in does anyone think that these new schools won't for a second challenge that on the basis that just because they are a private school they are being punished. What lawyer wouldn't jump all over that. I would say I hate to be a "told you so" but I don't, so I won't.

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    Default Re: Cornerstone sues UIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Redclad View Post
    When the original lawsuit was filed to allow the Jesuit schools in, many argued that it was only two schools and not that big of a deal. I was one of those that strongly opposed it and one of my main arquments was that it wasn't a level playing field as far as recruiting goes. For anyone that wants to deny recruiting is a factor consider this. Any kid with the means to go to Strake, whether that be financial or "assisted" and has a way of getting to and from the school each day is allowed to attend if accepted by the school.

    If the kid lives in the Woodlands or Katy or Beaumont even and is willing to make the drive it is allowable. Let me ask those familiar with Strake a question, let's say there was a can't miss superstar in the Woodlands (quite a distance from Bellaire Blvd) and through whatever means it became understood that he would like to attend Strake. His grades are a little below average as far as The Woodlands football team and school as a whole goes. His parents say that the only problem is getting to and from school each day. Another kid that lives nearby attends Strake, not an athelete, there for other reasons. His parents agree to provide the football player with transportation each day even if that causes some inconveniences.

    1) Would this be allowable?
    2) Is that fair?

    My other arguement was that it was only two schools to begin with and others would follow. Well guess what, you can expect many more.
    As far as being forced to play at the highest classification, forget it. If the original UIL charter was kicked in does anyone think that these new schools won't for a second challenge that on the basis that just because they are a private school they are being punished. What lawyer wouldn't jump all over that. I would say I hate to be a "told you so" but I don't, so I won't.
    Yes, ALL kids at Strake are allowed to car pool to school irregardless of their status as a student. A kid wouldn't be allowed into Strake just because he is a ball player. He has to pass a very tough entrance exam. If his grades are below average at the Woodland Schools I suspect they would be below average at Strake as well. IMO it is fair. UIL doesn't prevent say Lamar from having players who live on the Northside commute to their campus so, why is a problem for a Strake student to car pool as well. I live in 3rd ward, and I know plenty of kids (who play sports) who carpool out to Westside with students who do not play sports.

    I always ask this question when people use the "They Recruit" and no one has to date answered. Please point out to me the "Can't miss ballers" that are at Strake Jesuit. There are some good ball players but name me one that's in the league of a McGuffy, Whittaker or a Cole.........

    I don't recall Strake or Dallas Jesuit fighting the classification. Maybe because their numbers were close. But with a school like Conerstone, I can think of some liablieties that could occur if they are forced to compete at a 5A level in Football. That would be a train wreck and not a pretty one

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    Default Re: Cornerstone sues UIL

    I can't name a kid that was a standout recruit at Strake because I know of none. But your answer to my question implies that it is certainly possible. I totally agree with your reference to Lamar, I think the whole "magnet" loophole is grossly exploited. From your post I think you agree that the smaller schools will successfully fight being classified 5A and I agree that they should be at the same level as the public schools. Therein lies the whole problem. If you want a good example of what private schools can do when they want to, just look East of Beaumont. The original lawsuit should have been against TAAPS, not the UIL. The truth of the matter is there are certain private schools that want to compete at the highest level against the best competition and while that is in some part admirable it still provides them with a competitive advantage.

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    Default Re: Cornerstone sues UIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Redclad View Post
    When the original lawsuit was filed to allow the Jesuit schools in, many argued that it was only two schools and not that big of a deal. I was one of those that strongly opposed it and one of my main arquments was that it wasn't a level playing field as far as recruiting goes. For anyone that wants to deny recruiting is a factor consider this. Any kid with the means to go to Strake, whether that be financial or "assisted" and has a way of getting to and from the school each day is allowed to attend if accepted by the school.

    If the kid lives in the Woodlands or Katy or Beaumont even and is willing to make the drive it is allowable. Let me ask those familiar with Strake a question, let's say there was a can't miss superstar in the Woodlands (quite a distance from Bellaire Blvd) and through whatever means it became understood that he would like to attend Strake. His grades are a little below average as far as The Woodlands football team and school as a whole goes. His parents say that the only problem is getting to and from school each day. Another kid that lives nearby attends Strake, not an athelete, there for other reasons. His parents agree to provide the football player with transportation each day even if that causes some inconveniences.

    1) Would this be allowable?
    2) Is that fair?

    My other arguement was that it was only two schools to begin with and others would follow. Well guess what, you can expect many more.
    As far as being forced to play at the highest classification, forget it. If the original UIL charter was kicked in does anyone think that these new schools won't for a second challenge that on the basis that just because they are a private school they are being punished. What lawyer wouldn't jump all over that. I would say I hate to be a "told you so" but I don't, so I won't.
    Redclad, you haven't told us anything at all, except maybe you like to borrow trouble

    Nothing has come of this current situation yet, and knowing that this school hasn't been invited back into its current league for past rules violations, nothing probably ever will...

    As far as SJ and DJ, they are going on their fourth year of UIL football. If you know any instances where either has ignored or violated UIL rules or even taken extraordinary measures to bring athletes in then you should speak up about it. (In fact, you should do so if you know that about any public schools)

    But until then, you'll be relieved to know your far-fetched "what-if" scenarios mean nothing and certainly won't get you included as an "I told you so!"

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    Default Re: Cornerstone sues UIL

    Quote Originally Posted by Drake View Post
    Redclad, you haven't told us anything at all, except maybe you like to borrow trouble

    Nothing has come of this current situation yet, and knowing that this school hasn't been invited back into its current league for past rules violations, nothing probably ever will...

    As far as SJ and DJ, they are going on their fourth year of UIL football. If you know any instances where either has ignored or violated UIL rules or even taken extraordinary measures to bring athletes in then you should speak up about it. (In fact, you should do so if you know that about any public schools)

    But until then, you'll be relieved to know your far-fetched "what-if" scenarios mean nothing and certainly won't get you included as an "I told you so!"
    i agree with your assessment of the jesuits, but are you saying that if a school like cornerstone which has been doggedly recruiting for the purposes of athletics sues for and gets acceptance into the uil, that would be hunky dory? this worst-case scenario doesn't sound so far fetched to me. lousianna sent many of their crimials, why not their wonderfully managed hs athletic system? not all privates are quite as academically driven as the 2 ice-breakers.
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