UIL To Convert Classifications To 16 Districts in 2008?

[supercentex]

UIL To Convert Classifications To 16 Districts in 2008

By Lance Lahnert
Amarillo Globe-News
Friday, August 11, 2006

I know. I know.

I promised I would never run another rumor in this space about the University Interscholastic League biennial realignment.

That promise arrived last February when the gobs of possibilities we heard prior to the release of the 2006-2008 realignment pretty much all proved false.

But please, take a breath with me before we all go crazy in the next couple of weeks with the kickoffs of high school, college and NFL football.

I know. I know.

Taking time to discuss a UIL realignment that won't be released until February 2008 is as crazy as Terrell Owens doing pushups in camoflauge pants while conducting a TV interview.

But hang with me on this one.

UIL athletic coordinator Peter Contreras was in Amarillo on Thursday talking to Amarillo ISD coaches and administrators. He didn't mention realignment, focusing more on a new UIL program - Coaches and Officials Positive Expectations - and hitting other issues like health of athletes, and talking about one site for the two Class 5A state football championship games on Dec. 23 in San Antonio.

"Realignment?" Contreras said with a laugh. "Already?''

You see, a week earlier in Austin during a news conference with the media at coaching school, Contreras' boss, UIL athletic director Charles Breithaupt, did talk realignment.

I've heard Breithaupt give this state-of-the-UIL talk at coaching school at least 10 different times.

One time, about seven years ago, he mentioned playing football state championship games at one site. Nobody cared. The project was voted down many years in a row. But what's going to happen on Dec. 23 in San Antonio? A one site 5A state championship.

By the way, I was against this nonsense because of travel distance, until I learned the players will have medals put around their necks after the game and the Alamo city will "treat the game like it's a bowl game,'' Contreras said.

About five years ago, without being asked, Breithaupt talked about Class 5A having four teams in the playoffs. Nobody cared. This year in Class 5A how many teams make the playoffs? Four.

This year Breithaupt, without being asked, brought up revamping the Class 5A and Class 4A football seasons into 16 districts. Currently, 5A and 4A each has [sic] 32 districts.

The way Breithaupt explained it, the new format would mean a district might have 10, 12 or even 16 teams.

The breakdown of the district would be strictly by enrollment.

For instance, take a district of 12 teams. The Division I schools would be the top six enrollment schools and play a schedule against each other. The bottom six enrollment schools would do the same and make up Division II.

The first and second place teams in each division go to the playoffs and away we go.

"The biggest question is travel,'' Breithaupt said. "But we ran figures on this with 250 5A schools. And it didn't go too bad. Class 4A was the same.

"Where we got into travel problems was in Class 3A.''

No duh.

But hey, District 5-3A - Perryton, Dalhart, Canyon and Borger - already travel more than an 18-wheel truck driver delivering between New York and California.

At least this way, those four schools wouldn't have to worry about nondistrict schedules.

I'll let Breithaupt slip on that one. Because I like this 16-district idea. I like it a lot and think this concept brings out several positives.

For starters, and best of all, you don't have these ridiculous five and six team districts with four playoff teams like we have in District 2-5A.

Next, similar enrollment schools play each other all the way through the playoffs.

The current format forces the top enrollment school to participate in the Division I playoffs, even if that team placed third in district. The new way, you know from day one if a school is in Division I or Division II.

A third bonus is the football state championship would be played out over five weeks, not the current six, allowing players and parents to enjoy a full Christmas break.

For now, this idea is all about football, not the other sports. Fair or not, that seems to be where the UIL starts in team sports and the rest soon join in line.

Confused?

Just remember a few years down the line you heard it here first about the UIL changing to 16 districts in classes 5A, 4A, 3A and 2A.

After all, recent history lessons with Mr. Breithaupt say this will eventually become true.

Now go enjoy your football season.



Here it is.. The way it is read you would have 4 teams going out of the district. champ big school, runner-up big school, champ small school, runner-up big school, read what i said.

[farmerfan]

Stupid

[Slotback]

Um, why not readjust the classifications and create a 6A for football?

[ScottS]

Why not just leave things as is and after all the games play 1 more, so there is 1 champion in each class?

[odessapermian.com]

I wouldn't put too much stock in anything the Amarillo paper publishes. Bunch of idiots in the sports department.

[KT2000]

The mere thought of that causes a hot liquid to rise from my stomach.

[LUFPAN]

For teams in East and West Texas, this could cause a travel nightmare. I know the UIL doesn't care, since they only cater to large market areas, but this would be the worst idea since 2 state champions.:mad:

[RocklandDragon]

Why not just leave things as is and after all the games play 1 more, so there is 1 champion in each class?

Because that WOULD make sense. A no-no for the UIL.

:p

[Tut]

Sounds crazy enough for the UIL to do it. :eek:

[LoboFan07]

For teams in East and West Texas, this could cause a travel nightmare. I know the UIL doesn't care, since they only cater to large market areas, but this would be the worst idea since 2 state champions.:mad:

Agreed.

Last realignment I was seriously thinking they were gonna put us in a Houston district or something which uck would've been hell. :eek:

[c-lisle]

Agreed.

Last realignment I was seriously thinking they were gonna put us in a Houston district or something which uck would've been hell. :eek:


for the other teams....

[mojotrain]

UIL, unless I'm wrong. The UIL rule makers are made up of high school ADs, highschool board presidents and/or board of education members. Board of education members are voted on by the public, you and I. They in turn select your School board president and your ADs. But ultimately the UIL is selected by you. These decisions are not a decree by people who answer to no one. If you don't agree with these decisions you know where to voice your opinion. Some booster clubs have (or can have) an effect on the election of school board members. Posting is a good way to alert those with like interest but letting the right people know you have certain expectations and results for them to continue an elected office is your task.

If you have loved and supported Texas high school football in the past, just wait! Take that for what its worth.

[LoboFan07]

for the other teams....

And for our gas tanks/wallets.

[slorch]

UIL= if it works great, break it
if it still works, keep jacking with- 'till it breaks

[CCHS77]

UIL= if it works great, break it
if it still works, keep jacking with- 'till it breaks

You know, I’m with mtrain on this one. It’s so easy/fashionable to bash the UIL for what the fans think are their motives. But I’ve heard/read that when these major changes are made; i.e., four playoff teams, questionnaires have been sent to the schools. I believe school administration has been targeted. And it defies logic, that those administrator haven't utilized their ADs and major sport head coaches in how they responded. The majority have to have agreed that they would back a major change or I don’t believe that UIL would make a change.

Finally, next time any of you microscopically profess that the recent UIL realignment is stupid, idiotic, childish etc., look beyond your school, district, region, size of school and try to imagine how you could posture every school from Happy to Plano with a workable district. I learn a long time ago, that you just can’t please all of the people all of the time.

[Matthew 2000 Eagle]

You have a valid point CCHS77! But, I will say that the dumbest thing that the UIL has done by far is sticking San Angelo Central in the district with the Lubbock and Amarillo ISD schools for the last two and the next two years. That's insane! The messed up thing is that the Central Bobcats go right past the Odessa and Abilene schools on their way to Amarillo and Lubbock.:eek:

[slorch]

You know, I’m with mtrain on this one. It’s so easy/fashionable to bash the UIL for what the fans think are their motives. But I’ve heard/read that when these major changes are made; i.e., four playoff teams, questionnaires have been sent to the schools. I believe school administration has been targeted. And it defies logic, that those administrator haven't utilized their ADs and major sport head coaches in how they responded. The majority have to have agreed that they would back a major change or I don’t believe that UIL would make a change.

Finally, next time any of you microscopically profess that the recent UIL realignment is stupid, idiotic, childish etc., look beyond your school, district, region, size of school and try to imagine how you could posture every school from Happy to Plano with a workable district. I learn a long time ago, that you just can’t please all of the people all of the time.
I agree they have an unenviable task, and the biggest beef I have with realignment has been the San Angelo school being with the panhandle schools for football only- totally insane! I played at WF Rider and we had some pretty good road trips. On JV, going to school on Friday is a nightmare after a Thursday road game. I can't imagine doing what the kids and coaches do in that district.
Other than that, i wish Lufkin was still with thei East Texas district, but I understand their situation.

On the other hand, don't confuse dissent or feedback with ignorance or idiocy.
1) 4 teams shouldn't be in the POs from each district. 2 works best, 3 is pushing it. The regular season should mean something. the UIL is taking the other end of the spectrum with the NCAA. the system of 2 teams worked, the UIL broke it, and that's not even mentioning the assinine 2 division "champs" in each class.
2) Travel is already hard enough, it ain't all about the 3 big cities in Texas. the 16 district divisions are gonna produce some nice fuel bills. The small(er) towns give a distinct and unmistakable flavor to the game.
3) i disagree with the one site for the championship in that has been done for no other reason than TV. When one discusses the tradition and greatness of Texas High School Football, TV never enters the equation- until the UIL put it there. Money corrupts everything else and I guess our game is no different. The current process for picking PO sites works. They are breaking it. Therefore I made my statement.

I didn't say anything initially about reallignment. Don't call someone an idiot or a child, when you infused their statement with something they didn't say...

[Jtate862003]

wow........thats gotta be the absolute stupidest thing i have heard come from the brains of the uil in a while...........take something screwed up and screw it up some more???

[CCHS77]

I didn't say anything initially about reallignment. Don't call someone an idiot or a child, when you infused their statement with something they didn't say...


Slorch.

Note that my second paragraph (separated from the first one) said "any of you" to describe the posting audience as a whole. Sorry you didn’t understand the differentiation.

[slorch]

Slorch.

Note that my second paragraph (separated from the first one) said "any of you" to describe the posting audience as a whole. Sorry you didn’t understand the differentiation.
Did you not quote my post in yours? This is splitting hairs, but you were replying to my statement, therefore, I thought it would be reasonable to assume you were still replying to me.

you're still on very shaky ground defending the League. Will you not reply to any of the actual points of discussion in my post?

On the other hand, I guess, as you imply, the UIL is great!

[CCHS77]

Did you not quote my post in yours? This is splitting hairs, but you were replying to my statement, therefore, I thought it would be reasonable to assume you were still replying to me.

you're still on very shaky ground defending the League. Will you not reply to any of the actual points of discussion in my post?

On the other hand, I guess, as you imply, the UIL is great!

“splitting hairs?” Yes and again I guess you missed the “any of you” in the second paragraph.

Defending the UIL? I suppose. Or just suggesting that your superintendent/AD and maybe some HCs have had the opportunity to make a difference in future “developments” that the UIL has “floated” to them for their opinion. It’s this environment that believes that the UIL has done these horrible things for Texas High School sports, in a vacuum that I find hard to believe. You are free to continue to believe what you want.

Fact; I know I couldn’t do a better job of realignment when you take the entire spectrum of school and locations into the equation.

I believe if the internet and these forums were in place when the number of district reps going to the playoffs went from one to two, an equal amount of feverish fans would have suggested that the change was unnecessary, diminishes the reasons you have to win games in district play and will cause Texas High School Football to go to Hell in a hand basket!
(Sorry about that last part, I just had to say it) Even with the four teams going to the playoffs, you still want to win the district to get a non district winner from the adjacent district in Round 1.

No, I don’t particularly like that fact that I won’t be able to, personally, attend another, 5A final game for 5 years. (I’m guessing DFW will see a final game in 2010!)

If you listen to some of the poster from other states on the National forums, I’m thinking that the UIL does a pretty fair job. (Come to think of it, if some of the National posters believe all of the UIL “talk” on here and other sites, they’re now convinced that their sanctioning body is better than ours! Oh well!)

Finally, I believe you can’t please all of the people, all of the time!

[mojotrain]

Did you not quote my post in yours? This is splitting hairs, but you were replying to my statement, therefore, I thought it would be reasonable to assume you were still replying to me.

you're still on very shaky ground defending the League. Will you not reply to any of the actual points of discussion in my post?

On the other hand, I guess, as you imply, the UIL is great!

I do hate what the UIL has done starting with two district teams going into the playoff and I won't get into a whizzing contest about the goods and bad of that other than, Awarding mediocrity is a major problem of today. Just do it better next year.

My point was people who have a problem with the UIL should express those problems with your local school board including the president. Then when it comes time to vote for new members vote for ones that have the goals like yours.

The UIL is not something you have no control over.

[DrEdward]

I do hate what the UIL has done starting with two district teams going into the playoff and I won't get into a whizzing contest about the goods and bad of that other than, Awarding mediocrity is a major problem of today. Just do it better next year.

My point was people who have a problem with the UIL should express those problems with your local school board including the president. Then when it comes time to vote for new members vote for ones that have the goals like yours.

The UIL is not something you have no control over.

I believe (and I could be wrong) that it is the district superintendents making the final votes on approving or disapproving UIL actions. So yes, we all do have some degree of control over what is actually approved by the UIL. However, there can be serious lag effects between what the UIL does and the time it takes to register complaints through the electoral process at the school board election levels and the resulting selection of superintendents.

[slorch]

I agree with both of you in the what you are saying in the 2 previous posts.M-TRAIN and CC 77
I , as I suggested for others, am commited, rather than involved, or worse, apathetic, to my kids' education. I actively work with the programs and school functions my kids are in, as is my wife.
I played on a good Rider team in 87, that came in 3rd behind a great Lewisville team and a strong Denton team( before any of the other Denton schools came along.) we sat home for the playoffs, and we probably would have beaten some of the other qualifiers, but that was it- 2 teams made it, we came in 3rd.

Realignment is like nailing Jell-O to the wall. There are some obvious situations where the league just has to make a decision and run with it- such as the San Angelo decision in football. Lufkin is isolated, so it's tough to match up for a district, but that east Texas district just isn't the same without them.

I still believe the concept 2 division championsis insane and 4 playoff qualifiers were choices simply made for revenue generation. There is no other logical explanation. It doesn't help competition or participation. It just lets also-rans think they are better than they really are- and the Rider team that went 2-8 in the reg season, I believe in '97 or '98 and 3-1 in the POs is the epitome of how watered down the current system is.
No 2-8 team belongs in the POs, and the current system has many 4-6 teams and the occasional 3-7 team. I don't like it, and disagree with it. Reward excellence. There is a reason kids( and their coaches/ teachers/ parents) work so hard. Don't cheapen it by trying to make even more money from the cash cow.

[mojotrain]

I believe (and I could be wrong) that it is the district superintendents making the final votes on approving or disapproving UIL actions. So yes, we all do have some degree of control over what is actually approved by the UIL. However, there can be serious lag effects between what the UIL does and the time it takes to register complaints through the electoral process at the school board election levels and the resulting selection of superintendents.

Dr.,Yes there would be lag time. But at least they would have a flag thrown. A reminder that they know they should respond to wishs of people that put them in place.

What would be interesting, is to find out just who votes on these issues and how they voted. Do you know if that information is available? It shoud be, as it is a tax supported intity. I wonder if anyone on this site has any positive connections with newspapers our any other media that could capture this information. I guess some things that have changed are good for some. And maybe most are happy with UIL actions but they should know its not carte blanc.

School board members here have found out that the position they are in is not forever.

[owlbandad]

It looks to me like this proposal is the same thing as splitting up 4a and 5a so that you have 4a, 5a, 6a, and 7a, only the names are different. 5a turns into 6a and 7a and 4a turns into 4a and 5a, and each of 16 districts sends two teams to the playoffs. If that's what it is, why not call it that? If that's not what it is, what did I miss?

many thanks,

OwlBandad

[BandidoNB]

The UIL wont move to 16 districts - that would create the same effect of having a class 6A (schools in districts way too spread out). Rising gas prices surely wont help the 6A cause. Seems to me that the UIL is moving in the direction of eventually establishing one state championship in 5A by having DI and DII champions play in the same week, therefore opening the possibility of them squaring off against each other. Also, the constant opening of new schools every year prompts the UIL to consider expanding the number of schools in the playoffs, since there there is an expanding number of schools PERIOD (plus there is still only five classifications during the whole time span). I predict that the UIL will eventually include 4A in the four-team playoff format because virtually all of the new schools opening in Texas are mid to large sized schools.

[ashley]

The UIl is made up of school superindents only, not AD' and board members.

[mojotrain]

The UIl is made up of school superindents only, not AD' and board members.

Ashley thanks I wasn't for sure.

Then heres the trail. The Superindents(UIL) are picked by the school board. The school boards are picked by voters. The voters are You and I.
So, we have ment our enemy and they is US!

[Firebird]

UIL decisions are made by superintendents, and, by extension, coaches, principals, AD's, etc. (Of course, unofficially by questionaires and they like).

Realignment is a tricky task, made especially difficult by the everchanging demographics of the state. As more and more people move to major metro areas (and metro areas continue to swallow outlaying communities) it gets more and more difficult to incorporate the fewer and fewer communities outside of the metro areas into workable districts. The fact that people are rapidly decamping smaller and medium size towns in West Texas doesn't help.

As far as the asinine "divisional" four team playoff system, well that is easy to understand. The professional adminstrators LOVE more teams getting to the playoffs. Everyone wins. Coaches have better chance to put "playoffs" on their resumes. Principals get to crow about it to the community. School board members stay in place, parents and fans are happy to get a playoff game. The band boosters sell more concessions. Happy-gooey professional self esteem types like the fact that more people "get" to win. There are a LOT of people who will be happy with the current format-- every single fourth place team in the state, in fact. The only people who really hate it are the hard core fans of the high school game. And those fans are in the minority in the stands on Friday night. Most people, really are their to cheer for Junior and clap for Sally in the drill team, nothing more. And they want to see playoff games for their team, whether the team deserves it or not.

[KT2000]

Playing Lufkin, Carroll or Katy in the first round is a heck of a consolation prize to give a fourth place team.

"Congrats, you're in the playoffs...now meet AJ Penson and his band of not so merry men."

[Firebird]

Playing Lufkin, Carroll or Katy in the first round is a heck of a consolation prize to give a fourth place team.

"Congrats, you're in the playoffs...now meet AJ Penson and his band of not so merry men."


But, for a team that has missed the playoffs the last 10 or so years, it IS a prize. Believe me, for schools with woeful playoff track records, it really is worth it just to get there and have their butts handed to them. That's why so many admins love to get as many teams in as possible.

[Lufkin_Class_Of_08]

i may not agree with the things the uil does...but when i hear about other state's high school athletics, i realize how good texas has it...the uil may suck but they at least govern the games well

[RocklandDragon]

But, for a team that has missed the playoffs the last 10 or so years, it IS a prize. Believe me, for schools with woeful playoff track records, it really is worth it just to get there and have their butts handed to them. That's why so many admins love to get as many teams in as possible.

No kidding. I'll be looking forward to a bi-district matchup--ANY bi-district matchup--say for example if Lubbock High played EP Franklin in the first round.

10 years...ha! At least I would have been alive during this drought.

:D

From what I have read though--it's still a little unclear. Would the 16 districts have 4 teams qualify, each? I like the proposal that many have stated where the district champ would receive a bye.

[mojotrain]

But, for a team that has missed the playoffs the last 10 or so years, it IS a prize. Believe me, for schools with woeful playoff track records, it really is worth it just to get there and have their butts handed to them. That's why so many admins love to get as many teams in as possible.

Fire I guess this would make teams feel warm and fuzzy about themselves. Not speaking for every Permian supporter but for a few I'm sure, a forth place team in 3-5A could go with a 1 and 4 district record. I view this as a 20 percent winning record. The lessons in recieving a reward for 20 percent success are not good. As in life if an employer has given a job description to a employee and the employee completes 20 percent of the task given them, what happens?

If a 1 and 5 record gets you into the playoffs and next year those folks are on this site boasting of making the playoffs, that would mean what?

[mojotrain]

i may not agree with the things the uil does...but when i hear about other state's high school athletics, i realize how good texas has it...the uil may suck but they at least govern the games well

This ain't your daddys UIL. (the one's that built the Texas UIL,s reputation)

[Lufkin_Class_Of_08]

This ain't your daddys UIL. (the one's that built the Texas UIL,s reputation)
i dont think they had uil when my dad was in hs...unless the uil has been around since the late 60s...but i get what your saying

[Firebird]

Fire I guess this would make teams feel warm and fuzzy about themselves. Not speaking for every Permian supporter but for a few I'm sure, a forth place team in 3-5A could go with a 1 and 4 district record. I view this as a 20 percent winning record. The lessons in recieving a reward for 20 percent success are not good. As in life if an employer has given a job description to a employee and the employee completes 20 percent of the task given them, what happens?

If a 1 and 5 record gets you into the playoffs and next year those folks are on this site boasting of making the playoffs, that would mean what?

Like I said, I don't like the new format. But the casual fan-- who is more than likely only interested in the games because of a relative or friend on the field-- is just glad to see Jr. in the PO's.

[mojotrain]

i dont think they had uil when my dad was in hs...unless the uil has been around since the late 60s...but i get what your saying

08, a lot earlier than the sixties. But then their job description didn't include setting playoff sites. They mostly made rules and/or changes and set penatlys for those that broke them. They adjusted enrolement limits and alighned teams to districts within close proximity to each other. That was the intent of their original charter. Now mostly they just try to make money and wizz people off.

[the_pack]

Sometimes the UIL makes me really wonder.

[Lufkin_Class_Of_08]

08, a lot earlier than the sixties. But then their job description didn't include setting playoff sites. They mostly made rules and/or changes and set penatlys for those that broke them. They adjusted enrolement limits and alighned teams to districts within close proximity to each other. That was the intent of their original charter. Now mostly they just try to make money and wizz people off.
thanks for the info, i had no idea the uil was that old

[bryanvikings]

Um, why not readjust the classifications and create a 6A for football?
yeah