Best Receiving core...Lufkin OR SLC?

[Nukka Nilla]

Now everybody knows that both of these units are extremely talented but when it comes down to it which is better overall? Both are very athletic and fundamentally sound but what sets them apart? I have to go with SLC because there trio of Mckay Jaconson, Clint Renfro, and James Allen won the battle last year in the semi finals at Floyd Casey 38-31....

[LeanderLions3033]

^^Hands down southlake Carroll. Lufkin probably has a very talented recieving core, but with the wide open offense that SLC has, Renfros numbers last year, and everybody knows McKay Jacobson can put up huge numbers.

[Texasfrog]

Now everybody knows that both of these units are extremely talented but when it comes down to it which is better overall? Both are very athletic and fundamentally sound but what sets them apart? I have to go with SLC because there trio of Mckay Jaconson, Clint Renfro, and James Allen won the battle last year in the semi finals at Floyd Casey 38-31....

SLC has the better overall WR's group. Lufkin has a few kids that are right there also. I think overall the SLC system is more wideopen then Lufkins so they get more #'s.

Lufkin has a couple of kids that you could put into SLC "SYSTEM" and they would put up the same type of #'s.

But, as a "HIGH SCHOOL GROUP" it would be SLC.

[RGVBadBoy]

yeah, im with frog on this, i think as a group of HIGHSCHOOL WRs they are right up there with the best of em', but INDIVIDUALLY Lufkins' kids are probably better, i think that McKay and Renfro are probably faster, but Dez Bryant has EVERY THING you could possibley want in a recruit at WR, he may not be a 4.3 guy like Renfro, but i bet UT would rather have a 6'1 190lb WR that runs a 4.5 (Bryant) than a 5'10 175lb WR that runs a 4.4 (Jacobson), dont get me wrong, any school would be lucky to get any of these kids from either school..

a nice comparison would be the kids from a school like Hawaii that put up HUGE #s and are VERY talented against the kids from SLC who put up decent #s but are twice as good....i guess you could say its the system

[c-lisle]

I'll take Lufkin. Bryant is a stud and Shankle runs a sub 4.4 40. Jacobsen and Renfro are great in HS but IMO are to small to be effective at the next level. Put LP's receivers at SLC the past few years and they would have better numbers than Renfro and Jacobsen.

[Texasfrog]

I'll take Lufkin. Bryant is a stud and Shankle runs a sub 4.4 40. Jacobsen and Renfro are great in HS but IMO are to small to be effective at the next level. Put LP's receivers at SLC the past few years and they would have better numbers than Renfro and Jacobsen.

I agree with you to a point. Lufkin's WR's are more physically gifted for the next level. But, I'm not so sure that you could put Lufkin's Wr's in SLC system and the #'s would be BETTER.

I'm not so sure the #'s can get better ( Ya know ?). Those SLC Wr's put up some big #'s plus those kids aint to shabby themselves ( Jacobson, Renfro & crew).

The #'s would be equally impressive rather it's the SLC or Lufkin Wr's running in the Dodgeball system. Let's just say it would be a pretty close "toss up."

[bleedgreen]

both units are great, no doubt.....but, in several magazines and on several websites, the general concensus is saying that Lufkin has the top receiving core of this season....but, can the rookie QB get the ball to these guys???

[c-lisle]

both units are great, no doubt.....but, in several magazines and on several websites, the general concensus is saying that Lufkin has the top receiving core of this season....but, can the rookie QB get the ball to these guys???

I hope not. :D

[bleedgreen]

second that motion---LOL........................

[slc0204]

carroll all the way no question

[lonny23]

I'll go with SLC since Lufkin doesn't have the numbers in the past based upon a different system. Part of the best receiving core is how good the QB is and if the WR's get the ball enough.

[drgnbkr]

both units are great, no doubt.....but, in several magazines and on several websites, the general concensus is saying that Lufkin has the top receiving core of this season....but, can the rookie QB get the ball to these guys???

I've not seen any web sites or other source saying the Pack has superior receivers.....to whom do you refer?

[lonny23]

I've not seen any web sites or other source saying the Pack has superior receivers.....to whom do you refer?
When I read the title I knew I had to come on here because it looks like one of the dumber questions that's been asked around here.

[VB Pack Fan]

While Lufkin has some talented wideouts, I have to give my nod to SLC, for now. I do agree that our guys are bigger and would have a better chance in college. College db,s and safeties would love to see those speedy small guys from SLC coming at them. I still say the best recievers I have seen in high school were at Lufkin in 2001 in the form of Holman, Berry, and tight end Gipson, just ask the guys from Westlake.

[pack0808]

While Lufkin has some talented wideouts, I have to give my nod to SLC, for now. I do agree that our guys are bigger and would have a better chance in college. College db,s and safeties would love to see those speedy small guys from SLC coming at them. I still say the best recievers I have seen in high school were at Lufkin in 2001 in the form of Holman, Berry, and tight end Gipson, just ask the guys from Westlake.



with dez bryant 6'3 now not 6'1 and growing!! and thadeous gordon 6'3 on the outside you have 2 college types physically. dez has unbelievable hands and leaping ability but thad is untested. he played safety last year but i have heard he is impressive. on the inside you have a burner shankle 4.3, he has narrowed it down to lsu and a&m. he is leaning towards a&m though because of several of his lufkin buddies are already there in r mcneal, jlane, a dixon, and k bryan. then you have ralph thomas 4.4 who i think is the best wr of all of them. great hands great acceleration and just a play maker. big time athlete does not even describe him. he has q holman type of potential. m raines aka "white chocolate" has great speed and great hands and probably runs the best routes. do not forget that lufkin does not have lane anymore so you know they will throw a lot more. i expect the offense to be more of a quck hitting offense kind of like it was in the reggie era. i expect great things from the qb claybon and i expect the wr core to have a tremendous year if the new ol can block. outlaw knows his strengths and believe me he will take advantage of it. all great coaches do.

[southlake thug]

the depth at SLC is amazing... anytime you have an athlete like bryce jones who is player like the 8th receiver you know there is some depth. This kid would be starting at any other school. I do not know how deep Lufkins receivers are though. I just think overall there is non better then The Soutlake Carroll Dragons.

[LPFAN]

I will say SLC but I believe this year Lufkin is right on SLC's tail. We will see as the season progresses. Both will be great though.

[pack0808]

if you are going by physical specimens athlete's that will have a much better chance at making on the next level you will say lufkin. if you are going by numbers then you will take slc wr's. 2 totally different systems on offense when comparing recent slc and lufkin teams.. i can promise you this though. the college recruiters will take lufkin's wr's over slc wr's and that you can take to the bank. go ahead, mark my words. heck, copy and paste them later if you would like. it does not take a sport's genius to realize that.

[Nukka Nilla]

Until SLC is beat then I don't see how any other teams units could be better. And who says SLC receivers cant make it at the next level? both renfro and jacobson have multiple offers and Allen is sure to rack in some in the comin months...

[Texasfrog]

Until SLC is beat then I don't see how any other teams units could be better. And who says SLC receivers cant make it at the next level? both renfro and jacobson have multiple offers and Allen is sure to rack in some in the comin months...

I agree with you. Lufkin has some great physical receivers (Ht, wt, speed) ratio. But, those SLC receivers arent to shabby themselves and they are great route runners with great hands. I think all three of the SLC Wr's will be playing major college football & with a little more growing & getting stronger. I wouldnt be surprised to see Jacobson and Renfro in a NFL camp in 5 years. Not saying they will make the league, but I think they will make an NFL camp.

[backthepack]

You also need to think we had what 2 receivers that were soph's competing with the big boys and still putting up those kinds of numbers...I think that's pretty special myself...but still I won't pick on this...way too close.

[VB Pack Fan]

Man it,s amazing the depth that SLC has. Did I read that they have a kid in eight grade that could start on their team now. What,s his 40 time? :rolleyes:

[dragons08]

Man it,s amazing the depth that SLC has. Did I read that they have a kid in eight grade that could start on their team now. What,s his 40 time? :rolleyes:
hmm, seems kind of weird an 8th grader being good enough to start varsity, i was just thinking that he would get clobered becasue hed be a lot smaller and stuff, but i havent heard about it, unless your referrnig to what southlake thug said he said 8th reciver

[Reaganrattler07]

That'd be pretty darn deep depth if they really had an 8th grader......especially since he isn't even in high school yet.

[drgnbkr]

If you go back & look ..he said the 8th receiver...not an 8th grader.....this thread is pointless..Carroll thinks their WR's are the best, Lufkin thinks theirs are the best...& every one else wonders why its a thread.....we'll see when the games start who's got what... ;)

[dragons08]

If you go back & look ..he said the 8th receiver...not an 8th grader.....this thread is pointless..Carroll thinks their WR's are the best, Lufkin thinks theirs are the best...& every one else wonders why its a thread.....we'll see when the games start who's got what... ;)
i belive i saw a few lufkin poster says SLC's is better my dragon friend

[VB Pack Fan]

My bad, I thought it meant an 8th grader. And I said that if you look at the stats you got to go with the Dragons. Our guys will have to prove themselfs this year and then next year we can brag on the pack recievers..... :)

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

It's a toss up. I mean SLC has the best route runners to me. LP has some dangerous deep threats in Shankle, Bryant and Thomas.

[pack0808]

please do not get me wrong!! the slc wr's are very very good. you do have to take into consideration that chase daniel was throwing to them and not jacoby smallwood and that lufkin gave the ball to lane a lot in the last 2 years. not taking anything away from the slc receivers but it is just the fact they have a better chance to rack up the numbers in their type of system.

on the div1a type receivers from both of these schools?? i do not know about slc but all 4 starters should and will play div1a ball after they leave lufkin. the only one that might not is raphael thomas only because he might take the baseball route. he is just a great all around athlete. if he decides to play football he will be a shoe in div1a receiver. thomas is a junior. shankle has narrowed it down to lsu and a&m so he is a guarantee. i predict dez bryant will be one of the top wr recruits in the nation next year. he is only a junior also. i also think thad gordon has a good shot at div1a ball with his 6'3 height and athletic ability. m raines has a shot at div1aa or juco. he is built very similar to many of the slc wr's in terms of their bodies. he can flat out run too!! not a bad 5 wr core at all at lufkin. they are definitely one of the best. the same goes for slc.

[Favpack]

It's really a question of the known vs. unknown.

SLC has a great receiving corp. If LP is fortunate to play them in Week 15, it will put a great secondary to their ultimate test. Renfro & Co. lit up LP last year and they certainly have the potential to do it again if LP can't pressure the qb.

All of this said, of course, both teams would have huge obstacles in the way to even get to the game.

SLC's receivers will have huge, gaudy numbers, almost guaranteed - unless McElroy is a bust -- or the injury bug hits.

LP's receiving corp. of Bryant, Thomas and Shankle could be very special. Throw in Thaddeus Gordon, and you have 4 receivers that could easily smash all receiving records at Lufkin. The unknown does get back to the qb and the rb slots - both of which are unproven.

If he can keep his head on straight - Dez Bryant could easily be the no. 1 receiver statewide and possibly nationwide by this time next year. How many soph. receivers do you know that have made 4 TD receptions in two games of the latter part of the playoffs - with essentially no timing down with the qb and not much of a clue as to what they were even doing? That is Dez Bryant. He had 2 TD's against a much smarter SLC secondary, should have had 3 (the last second up and out was just off his fingertips) and almost had a 4th. If he's now 6'3" and as faster or faster - he will be essentially unstoppable - assuming someone can get the ball anywhere near his vicinity.

Bottom line - give a decided nod to SLC right now - no doubt. Two of these guys could likely be all-state, but if LP is there in week 15, let's re-address this question.

[pack0808]

oh dez is definitely 6'3. i talked to him at a 7 on 7 game. he looks taller then thad gordon to me and he is listed at 6'3. he must have done some serious growing this summer!! i bet he is not done.

[Favpack]

Pack - always good to see the really good ones growing :) Other than Jtrain, seems LP has been a bit undersized lately. I'd love to see that trend reverse. As Coach O has stated, this won't be his largest D, but will be his fastest, and probably most lethal.

I've seen several younger kids in the gym that have grown pretty nicely this summer. Have not seen Travon yet, but I'm hoping he's in that group of growers.

[football fanatic]

I think that they are both equally talented groups. However, I dont know about Lufkin's QB. I know McElroy is a stud, but who is the guy for Lufkins this year.

That is the difference maker in my opinion.

[Favpack]

FF - the qb for Lufkin will most assuredly be Jeremy Claybon - 6' - 185 or so - a junior. Coach O says all positions are open, but it would take an injury or something no one is seeing for Jeremy to not have the qb slot. He played well in 7on7 this summer.

Yes McElroy looks great in shorts - but he has not thrown a pass that matters either - not one. So, I'm going to reserve calling him a stud until and if he wins a ring.

[implacable44]

I don't know that you can say Mcelroy is a stud - I would say he is the lucky guy who gets to throw to mckay, clint and the crew. The quicker he realizes where his and SLC's success will lie this year - the better of he will be. He needs to be Tom Brady - not Steve Young. In other words - he needs to throw quick outs - slants and not look to do the spectacular and throw long balls and run with it.

[dragonsdaddy]

44, you must realize with the football acumen you obviously possess, that the defense determines what the qb for slc throws. would you suggest that the owner of a great racehorse only enter him in claiming races? why would dodge put his light under a basket? if the defense is taking away the short passes, and dodge can send a couple of lightning bolts downfield, and the qb has a rocket launcher under his pads, he would be imbecilic not to go down field. and if the running lanes are there, mc will hit the bricks. maybe not his forte, but he will make some teams pay for the privilege of chasing him down. to think that dodge has a rein on his offense and won't pass out some poison when begged for is far-fetched.

[implacable44]

daddy - grandpa - whatever you are - Please forgive me as I was under the belief that I didn't have to go elementary on all posts- I said that their success lies with the receivers and he will be better off throwing slants and quick outs - short tosses and letting the receivers pile up the YAC. That is where their success will come from. Of course there will be times that this opens up the deep ball as well as allowing him to run - but his rushing attempts should be along the lines of aikman or peyton manning not duante culpepper or mike vick. In the future when I know you will be replying to my post, I will be sure and be more detailed and explain. oh yeah YAC - yards after the catch.

[dragonsdaddy]

again, the passes aren't determined by the offense, but by the defense. some not as cockily brilliant as yourself may or may not grasp the situation as fully as your implacableness. i hope you aren't so put out with the peons around you as you are with the peons on this board.

[implacable44]

so you think the defense sets the tone for the SLC attack ? I mean Judson is doing one thing and only one thing - RUN THE BALL DOWN YOUR THROAT - 8 in the box - whatever - the ball will be on the ground 70 to 80% of the time. SLC is throwing the ball - I am pretty sure the offense for SLC sets the tone and the defense has to adjust to them -as potent as you all think they are. I mean SLC does not appear to me to be an offense that takes what the defense gives them - they appear to force the action. Besides - how could any defense possibly match up with that offense -- too many weapons so it should not matter to coach Dodge what or who they play against.

[dragonsdaddy]

you need to watch if you haven't, how the offense changes on the fly. they sometimes change the play at the los more than once. this i do know, the defense decides what slc runs. the old pick your poison bromide is never more apt than when describing the slc offense. the most obvious example is the dichotomy of the 2 dr games. the play calling was not pre-determined, but decided on the fly based on how dr lined up for each play. spread teams can't realistically force feed a scheme on a good defense, as they can't bring power to bear every play like a coju or a kt. but their weakness is their strength when used wisely. taking what the defense gives you has been the hallmark of dodge coached teams. the old adage, "there is no limit to the amount of success a team can achieve when no one cares who gets the credit" fits his teams pretty well and explains most of his success of late.

[implacable44]

the ball placement might change based on something in particular - ie a linebacker isolated with a WR - but the concept remains the same regardless of the defense.

[dragonsdaddy]

no not really. though there are limited plays available once a formation has been established. a no back kind of takes the option off the book. the blocking schemes are fairly basic and almost purely zone, influence style, so the linemen don't have to do much in the way of adjusting regardless of the audibles called. if a pass is the initial call and the defense is dropping 6 to cover, a run will be instantly inserted and run within seconds. it blows an old qb like myself away every time i see it. it has to be somewhat demoralizing to a defense to see slc change plays as soon as the defense gets set, and change again if the defense shifts.

[pack0808]

in offenses like longview and dallas carter etc etc they say hey, 95 percent of the time you know what they are going to do!! they are going to shove it down your throat and they do not care just try and stop them is their attitude. in an offense like slc which is similar to the old run n shoot, the defense determines a lot of what they will do. if the corners are playing back they will hit you all day with quick slant and short hook routes etc etc if you are up in their face look for deep pass routes. if you blitz a lot expect screens and so on and so on also, if a team decides to use a heavy nickel and dime packages with many db's expect them to run the ball more. if a team is as good at it and as talented as slc is it is almost like pick your poison. the key is to have a defense so good that you can just play your regular sets and man up to them and say beat us and try to confuse them with blitz packages. hopefully lufkin will have a defense that good this year to do that. ;)

[drgnbkr]

Watch it Pack...I caught a lot of flack using the term "pick your poison"..... :cool:

[dragonsdaddy]

he remembers when i used that term in almost every post back in 02, to the point of getting a cover quote on the 03 football e-mag.

[VB Pack Fan]

Man was I laughing at this one. :D Two guys going toe to toe over SLC and what dictates there offense. Way to go guys I love reading these kind of threads....and the season hasn,t ever started yet. Can,t wait until it does, so I can really have a good laugh at some of the threads :D :D .....GO PACK

[dragonsdaddy]

toe to toe would require common knowledge, of which we lack somewhat. one knows and the other thinks he knows. i'll let you be the judge of that.

[drgnbkr]

Toe to toe is what the opposing DB's better be ready to go vs. the Carroll wide-outs this year...you know?.... ;) The Dragons can, as they say, "flood the zone"....

[PowerPack'd]

I hope we get the opportunity to play SLC again. I always enjoy playing against a quality program. It does make for a long drive home when you lose though.

I think our d'backs will be up to the challenge. I know it will be exciting if it happens.

As far as who has the best receivers. I say its a toss up until the season starts. However, it is hard to argue with the numbers SLC normally puts up.

[implacable44]

Toe to toe requires the ability to have an unbiased perspective - to be able to take a step back and look at it without bias. It also requires at least the intellect of a high school graduate which - well some daddys are of the dead beat variety and wear green glasses and think their team hung the moon. I will let you be the judge of that.

[dragonsdaddy]

i don't know any of the type you seem to be acquainted with. too bad for you. and bias can go in either direction and from my perspective there is plenty of bias over keller way. knowledge of things on which you opine is not to be taken cavalierly, but who among us thinks differently.

[implacable44]

Keller? You must have me mistaken for somebody else. I reside in the area but support Converse Judson and at the current time Southlake due to friendships and church affiliations. When I go to the game this year I will have one of my friends point you out so I can put a face with the bias and sometimes silly comments.

It is okay to be bias when you can admit it.

[KT2000]

The best receiving corps in the state (for 5A) may not be in Southlake or Lufkin interestingly enough. Although I rate those two as the best in our team unit rankings, I also think South Garland has an argument.

[implacable44]

You know Judson could have the best receivers but you would never know it because -- well they don't throw the ball.

[dragonsdaddy]

btw, just because you are paranoid, doesn't mean everyone isn't out to get you.

[implacable44]

was that for me ? paranoid? of ?>?

[CoppellCowboy57]

SLC for speed Lufkin for strength...easy...

[LPFAN]

SLC for speed Lufkin for strength...easy...
Speed and strength are great for either team to have but neither mean anything if you don't catch the ball during the game. We will see who can catch and move the ball downfield and score the most. Both teams will be great regardless.

[dragonsdaddy]

sorry for the abstrusity. the point was that it is posible to be biased and correct at the same time.

[football fanatic]

I would say anytime you have double digit offers, then you are considered a stud. Last I heard Mac had 10 offers. That was a couple weeks ago. He could be up to 15 by now.

I think college coaches know that he can play.

GO 17!!

[dragonsdaddy]

I would say anytime you have double digit offers, then you are considered a stud. Last I heard Mac had 10 offers. That was a couple weeks ago. He could be up to 15 by now.

I think college coaches know that he can play.

GO 17!!

you are obviously too biased and therefore shouldn't be taken seriously.

[implacable44]

meaning you are biased and correct ? - cavalier and abstruse - quite a conflict - look at you dropping $5.00 words - I am impressed that you know what that means. You are right - it is possible to be bias and correct - but that does not describe you. You come accross as ignorant and at times dumb because you cannot take any criticism of SLC nor can you accept that they dont have the best player in the state at every position.

[dragonsdaddy]

coming from the likes of you, i take that as a compliment. i'm too dumb to do otherwise. thank goodness you aren't on any of the professional boards i have to impress enough to keep my license current.

and while we are offering up aspersions, you come across as an extremely unhappy, opinionated, curmudgeon who wakes up everyday knowing that negatively attacking something else is the closest you can get to satisfaction. probably an over-simplification, but probably not wholy inaccurate either.

[implacable44]

you are the scrabble champion my friend. Wow - you must have got a good edumacation - aspersions you think my comments are maliciously false ? You are accusing me of malice? You think I mean to cause you harm ? That I am intending to commit an unlawful act against you ?

a Curmudgeon ? you think I am ill-tempered - actually that word choice was kind of repetitive since you described the whole of the word with the previous adjectives. Of course curmudgeons is also generally meant to describe an elderly person i.e. scrooge etc.. which I am not. Such word choice could be considered slander against my person.

Your license? professional boards - It isn't my fault you can't pass your driver's test. Do you want me to tutor you on the weekends or something? Currently I am in law school and work full time but I will make time for you. I am a caring and concerned citizen and volunteer work will always look good on my resume.

I do not look to negatively attack anyone. As previously stated umteen times I support SLC. There are a few kids on the team that I know and I know their parents and I support them. I cheer for them and I recognize on a consistent basis that they can play. I am also able to be honest though and a realist. Ie how tall Riley Dodge is etc...

Like I said - since it appears a lot of these greenbloods know you -- I will make sure to ask my friends to point you out on August 27th- I assume you will be there.

[dragonsdaddy]

if they weren't all accurate, it is only from having the pleasure of not having you for a "friend". as rls once wrote, "i regard you with an indifference bordering on aversion". otherwise, have a happy and peaceful day.

[implacable44]

wow - you are a kind gentle soul aren't you ? Hopefully I can grow up to be as great a man as you apparently are to be indifferent to others you deem beneath you - dare I say , pompous???

I bid you good day as well and in the words of Doc Holiday , "you may go now"

[dragonsdaddy]

no, you have enough regard for yourself and vice versa, that our relationship can survive these little agreements. i am too old and tired to take on the negativity you so frequently and assiduously project. another apt quote from oscar wilde, "he has no enemies, but is intensely disliked by his friends".

[implacable44]

I thought you were through ? What is this the quote game ? I don't care if you are disliked by your friends - probably an occupational hazard.

It is okay though - I live by the advice of Oscar Wilde who also said, "Always forgive your enemies, nothing annoys them so much"

[pack0808]

well considering d-daddy is a physician and implacable44 might become a lawyer i am going to have to pull for the doc in this battle of brains. i am biased toward physicians considering my father is one and i am not very fond of many lawyers so what can i say. lol i did not say all lawyers just the vast majority ok. lol i for one can admit that i am biased. ;) well, i hope this conversation is coming close to ending because i am having trouble keeping up. d-daddy is a good guy implacable and he is not at all pompous!! it was a pleasure meeting him last year the lp/slc game and i hope i get to see him again this year come december. ;)

[implacable44]

I believe you that he is a good guy - I have no doubts.

as far as winning the battle of the brains because he PRACTICES medicine doesn't mean much to me. Doctors just take educated guesses in everything they do.

[dragonsdaddy]

i'm cheating with the quotations. go to www.cartalk.com and they have a list of the best insults i've ever seen. this is as good a way i know that i can pass some intermittent down time.

[pack0808]

Yeah just imagine life without physicians?? no surgeons?? :eek: i will gladly live with their very educated guesses. Most of these so called guesses are made from years and years of research and proof. Have you looked at the average age people die these days compared to when they died a few hundred years ago?? Looks like they are making some pretty good guesses! ;) Physicians make educated guesses while many lawyers make decisions on how to deceive a group of people called a jury or a person with a pocket book. :D

[drgnbkr]

And to think that this started out as a HS Football web-site....amazing!.. :cool:

[dragonsdaddy]

now pack you know the old adage, he who has the jd writes the laws. you are going from preaching to meddling when you asperse upon lawyers. they sometimes take that pretty seriously.

[dragonsdaddy]

and it'll revert once the lights come back on.

[implacable44]

cant you fit all your thoughts in one post or do they happen so randomly you just type one after the other?

I will gladly live without physicians and or surgeons - serve no purpose for me. Physicians guess and are wrong quite frequently--hence the ridiculous costs of medicine in the good ole U S of A. Not to mention those crazy doctors who go criminal. Of course Daddy will say the cost is so high because those frivilous law suits requesting punitive damages and compensation that far exceed reasonable - which I would agree to so lets save that comment.

Lawyers don't write laws - legislators are supposed to write laws - you know those people that you vote for in that little booth -- public office. Unfortunately in today's world - activist judges are writing the laws.

Ambulance chasers and Johnny Cochrans try to deceive 12 people or a judge- ethical lawyers present facts and present it clearly and accurately - avoiding any hint of ambiguity.

Back to the topic - Look for those Judson Receivers to make a name for themselves this year and in 3 years Wagner will be on the scene. They will get most of the Kirby kids which is a good -- good thing for Wagner.

[dragonsdaddy]

this board doesn't allow specifying answers, except by quoting the first, tyvm.
for my edification, what percentage of legislators are also lawyers?
hope you or yours will never need medical care. luckily, doctors still treat patients despite their or their family's attitudes and misanthropism.

[implacable44]

I don't know - why don't you look that up and let me know the percentages. I am sure a significant percentage of them are lawyers but the ability to make laws is an elected official and has no bearing on being a lawyer. In others words - the mere fact that a senator might be a lawyer or an ex-president is a disbarred lawyer is not the reason they are empowered to make laws. They could just as well be doctors.

Actually mine did and science failed him. Failed to diagnose his illness over a 12-year period as they used experimental medicines - probably contributing to his demise and eventual death -- that was listed as a heart attack - conveniently since no doctor could diagnose him. Heard everything from cancer, leukemia, viruses etc.. nothing conclusive. Ridiculous.

[dragonsdaddy]

you can take the lawyer out of the litigation, but you can't take the litigation out of the lawyer.

sorry about your dad. what did the post-mort show to be wrong with him?

[drgnbkr]

Soooo...what do ya think boys? Should we call in the dogs, piss on the fire & talk about football again or what?

[dragonsdaddy]

15 days for most teams and we'll be inundated with important stuff, like who woulda shoulda coulda, and which stats are meaningful and which aren't.

[pack0808]

Wow!! this guy said he has no need for physicians or surgeons and then he names a isolated case where a doctor was wrong?? Doctor's are human the last time i checked and yes they make mistakes?? They are not God's and they do not have the answer for everything but they do have the answer in a lot of cases. I know lawyer's are perfect and never make mistakes in their profession?? :rolleyes: I am sorry but if you think medical Physician's and Surgeon's are useless i would have to question what planet you reside at? Nobody can deny the amazing advances in medicine and the unbelievable ways they can save lives these days. Absolutely astounding somebody could say something that ignorant. Physician's and Surgeons save thousands upon thousands of lives daily and modern medicine and technology has extended how long people live by a incredible amount of years. To deny that would be confusing to say the least??


Ok, can we get back on topic please!! We can take this to the off topic room if you would like?? I would prefer not!! The world needs lawyers and physicans but i would venture to say the latter are much more of a necesity. I think the vast majority would agree with me. One day you could be in a surgery room in desperate need of a lung, heart, or kidney transplant to live or you might need surgery to repair your badly damaged heart and you might reconsider your take on medical physicians??

Oh yeah, how about those panthers?? ;)

[dragonsdaddy]

i'm betting that we both believe like daddy d who felt he could take his'n and beat your'n, or take your'n and beat his'n. the main difference may be in the efficiency of the qb's of said teams.

[pack0808]

ok your losing me again d-daddy!! :)

[drgnbkr]

They had a piece on FSN last night regarding Carroll starting practice. Footballs were flying everywhere...surprise! I will be interesting, as always to see what the highly touted show up with, and who the surprise powers turn out to be...can't wait!

[dragonsdaddy]

sorry. as you well know, lp and slc are my 2 favorite teams. give me either group, and i'd be perfectly comfortable playing anyone else, as long as we get dodge too. d royal felt the same.

[implacable44]

All right Pack - I will go ahead and humor you with a reply - against my better judgment - I don't appreciate you calling me ignorant based on a feeling I have regarding a certain practicing profession. Feel free to state your credentials if you wish- as far as I know you are in the high school band and I am wasting my time speaking to a derelict.

"Wow!! this guy said he has no need for physicians or surgeons and then he names a isolated case where a doctor was wrong??" - an isolated and very personal case.

"Doctor's are human the last time i checked and yes they make mistakes??" of course they do - hence the term practice medicine. I stated that I have no use for medicine-- me personally. as in my choice.

"I know lawyer's are perfect and never make mistakes in their profession??" - well you said it - but obviously they do make mistakes because in each case there is a winner and a loser.

"I am sorry but if you think medical Physician's and Surgeon's are useless i would have to question what planet you reside at?" I am on planet Earth Klingon where I am afforded the freedome to choose, speak etc. by brave men and women who have protected that freedom I enjoy in Texas.

"Nobody can deny the amazing advances in medicine and the unbelievable ways they can save lives these days. Absolutely astounding somebody could say something that ignorant. Physician's and Surgeons save thousands upon thousands of lives daily and modern medicine and technology has extended how long people live by a incredible amount of years. To deny that would be confusing to say the least??"---- I never denied such claims - I said doctors make educated guesses for the most part. Please remind me what they have cured in the last 20 years +?? I don't deny the advances of science and medicine or the benefits of it. I tell you that for the most part I feel a certain way due to a recent event.


"Ok, can we get back on topic please!! We can take this to the off topic room if you would like?? I would prefer not!! The world needs lawyers and physicans but i would venture to say the latter are much more of a necesity. I think the vast majority would agree with me. One day you could be in a surgery room in desperate need of a lung, heart, or kidney transplant to live or you might need surgery to repair your badly damaged heart and you might reconsider your take on medical physicians??" Amaxing - in one breath you speak of changing topics and then contradict yourself right away going back to the non-football topic. - I assure you skippy I will not reconsider.

[LPFAN]

Yeah just imagine life without physicians?? no surgeons?? :eek: i will gladly live with their very educated guesses. Most of these so called guesses are made from years and years of research and proof. Have you looked at the average age people die these days compared to when they died a few hundred years ago?? Looks like they are making some pretty good guesses! ;) Physicians make educated guesses while many lawyers make decisions on how to deceive a group of people called a jury or a person with a pocket book. :D
This has been an interesting yet funny converstion between the two. I would just like to say that there are good doctors and bad doctors just like their are good lawyers and bad lawyers. I have heard that your dad is a good doctor but I know there are some bad and crooked doctors just like there are bad and crooked lawyers. I work with the senior market and I hear their horror stories about misdiagnosis, prescribing too many meds, telling them to come back every month when they really don't need too. I have had their adult children tell me the stories too of how some of the doctors are cold, impersonal etc. For some it is just all about the money and how much they can squeeze out of the patient or the patients insurance company. I know that is not the case with your dad. Although I have never been his patient I have heard for a long time that he was a good Dr. As for lawyers...well I know there are some good ones out there too but there are alot that just are down right sorry. But it is in every profession, every race. There will always be good and bad.

[dragonsdaddy]

meaning you are biased and correct ? - cavalier and abstruse - quite a conflict - look at you dropping $5.00 words - I am impressed that you know what that means. You are right - it is possible to be bias and correct - but that does not describe you. You come accross as ignorant and at times dumb because you cannot take any criticism of SLC nor can you accept that they dont have the best player in the state at every position.
yet you feel justified and righteous calling someone who has probably forgotten as much about several relevant and important subjects than you are likely to ever learn what you blast someone else for. pot meet kettle.

[implacable44]

heck that describes us all - mote meet beam -

my comments to you were in regard to your bias and at times silly and just plain dumb comments regarding SLC because you refuse to see any flaws. - I guess ignorance was a poor choice of words because you well know the facts you just refuse to acknowledge them --hence the word dumb.

[Favpack]

Hey!!

We need LP Mom to come in here and restore order with some good ol' head knockin' -lol.

You guys are gettin' deep - real deep. Thank goodness practice has begun.

Of course, I'm now listening to my 23rd "take" on T.O. today on ESPN radio - my constant background companion. So, it's a slow news day.

BTW DDaddy - how does it feel to not have a young 'un practicing this year under the UIL umbrella?

[pack0808]

First of all, i did not call you ignorant implacable i called your statement ignorant. Didn't you just call d-daddy dumb or ignorant?? Either way,you obviously are an intelligent person but we have different views on this particular subject. No harm no foul!! I am very opinionated and i cannot help myself sometimes. lol On my credentials, i do not think i anybody wants to hear my educational and working history. We just have different views nothing more. By the way, i am far from being in a high school band. ;) I am a father of 4 boys and i just hit my 30's. :eek: I wish i was still 18!! ;) Well maybe not because i was a wild one!! I have a feeling that you would argue with me all day and night if i chose to continue this discussion so i will not bother. I believe you chose the right profession and i mean no offense by that statement!! ;)

Lpfan, wide told me who you are and i had no idea?? Thanks for the compliments about my father. He has very high ethics and morals not only in his profession but also his personal life. You are right that there is good and bad in every profession. No doubt about that!! There are thugs everywhere and some are teachers, lawyers, preachers, coporate leaders etc etc etc. That is just how it is!!


Again, how about those panthers?? ;)

[pack0808]

You are right favpack we are getting deep!! I should have never got into this convo. ;) yeah i am sick of hearing about T.O., Kenny Rogers, and Raphael Palmiero. ;)

[dragonsdaddy]

that's why i can't stomach espn. they are an audio version of usa today.

i think i'm going to survive, as i've got 2 trying to play at the next level. not quite as fun because the involvement is tangential at best. i'll be watching the hs scene from afar, but with interest none the less.

[Favpack]

that's why i can't stomach espn. they are an audio version of usa today.

i think i'm going to survive, as i've got 2 trying to play at the next level. not quite as fun because the involvement is tangential at best. i'll be watching the hs scene from afar, but with interest none the less.

tangential?? hmmm, I'll take a guess as minimal? distant?

Tangential -- learnt me a nue word today Momma. You city slickers shore have a way with them words. :confused: ;)

[dragonsdaddy]

more like on the edge of the situations concerning the team. only touching, not an actual integral part, like i've been for the 6 years prior to this season.

[implacable44]

pack - 4 boys huh ? - I must say I am jealous of that - fate has chosen to send me 3 daughters 3 yr old and 11 month old twins. no boys. no football or basketball for me to follow with a little pride in my eye. I will have to join the cheerleading or dance team discussion boards.

[allendad]

All of the arguements have been enlightening.

It will be great to see how the season developes.

For SLC last year was great. Throw in a new QB and
who knows if they'll be a great as last year.

Lufkin, all the tangible things are there in place.

This will be a very interesting year.

The best to both of you's!

Allendad

[dragonsdaddy]

hey ad, since we seem to attact each other's company in texas stadium, will you all have any weapons for dick to throw to? inability to spread the field hurt you last year. if teams can stack the middle, your rb won't be nearly as big of a threat as hoped or hyped.

[pack0808]

pack - 4 boys huh ? - I must say I am jealous of that - fate has chosen to send me 3 daughters 3 yr old and 11 month old twins. no boys. no football or basketball for me to follow with a little pride in my eye. I will have to join the cheerleading or dance team discussion boards.


Yep 4 boys!! Might as well move out to the ballpark!! ;) Kids are blessings no matter what you have but i was hoping to have a little daddy's girl also so i envy you in way too. Hopefully all 4 of mine will be future panthers.

[wide-e-wide]

Yep 4 boys!! Might as well move out to the ballpark!! ;) Kids are blessings no matter what you have but i was hoping to have a little daddy's girl also so i envy you in way too. Hopefully all 4 of mine will be future panthers.

Hey Pack0808...I've got 5 of 'em...'ya want one?
Hell...take two of 'em.

[pack0808]

LMAO Wide!! i will pass but thanks for the offer. 4 is more then enough. I will consider negotiations for a trade though. ;) My new one is 21lbs and he just turned 4 months. Can you say future pack offensive or defensive lineman?? lol

[wide-e-wide]

A trade?
I'll send you two girls....for....ummmmmm
A car, a big screen and a kid to be named later.

[implacable44]

hey i will give you twin girls for free but if you send them back to me it will cost you $50,000 a piece.

[wide-e-wide]

That would bring me to a grand total of 7 girls and one boy....
So unless they have incredible singing voices or know how
to play guitar...I don't need 'em.
The idea is to get rid of them....not acquire them.

[dragonsdaddy]

wide etal. they are much much esaier to acquire than they are to be rid of, at least morally so. if it wasn't so much fun to get them started, we would not have quite the population worries, me thinks, he says understatedly.

[wide-e-wide]

As usual you speaketh the trutheth my friend.
Much easier and more fun to acquire...than to maintain.

[fabdragnfan]

Back to the original topic....

I can't imagine why someone would even pose the question of LP vs. SLC. We've got tons of receivers lined up and ready to go... Allen, Jacobson, Renfro...but we know all about these. There are a few new ones as well...one of the Ford twins may be playing WR, and I also believe there's a new move-in. Not sure though. I'll check on it and get back on here.

Dragons all the way!

[gwdaddy]

pack - 4 boys huh ? - I must say I am jealous of that - fate has chosen to send me 3 daughters 3 yr old and 11 month old twins. no boys. no football or basketball for me to follow with a little pride in my eye. I will have to join the cheerleading or dance team discussion boards.

Those little girls might surprise you, 44. It's my 5'4", <120 lb. daughter who's the college athlete, not my 6'4" >240 lb. son.

I've been following your conversations with ddaddy with a degree of amusement. I must say you are studying for the right profession, but watch that use of terms like ambulance chaser. They might not let you sit for the bar if that's part of your record.

BTW, I'm completely independent regarding your conversations with the good doctor, what with my being a CPA. I will ask, however, if you're aware you were bantering $5 words with a Rice man--ddaddy, not me. (I'm a UT man, or as ddaddy's dyslexia prompts him to habitually type, TU.)

[pack0808]

Back to the original topic....

I can't imagine why someone would even pose the question of LP vs. SLC. We've got tons of receivers lined up and ready to go... Allen, Jacobson, Renfro...but we know all about these. There are a few new ones as well...one of the Ford twins may be playing WR, and I also believe there's a new move-in. Not sure though. I'll check on it and get back on here.

Dragons all the way!


Probably because 4 of the 5 Lp receivers will almost certainly be dressing up for a major div1a program in a few years. It is hard to argue with the raw talent the lp receivers have this year. Put them in the SLC program with their type of offense and i promise you they would have just as good or better numbers. That is just my BIASED opinion though!! ;)

One other thing, not many hs teams can run the type of complex offense slc runs. Many college teams can't!! That is just impressive!!

[dragonsdaddy]

or as i wrote earlier, his'n and your'n. any coach worth his salt could win with either.

[pack0808]

Very True!!

[southlake thug]

Back to the original topic....

I can't imagine why someone would even pose the question of LP vs. SLC. We've got tons of receivers lined up and ready to go... Allen, Jacobson, Renfro...but we know all about these. There are a few new ones as well...one of the Ford twins may be playing WR, and I also believe there's a new move-in. Not sure though. I'll check on it and get back on here.

Dragons all the way!



The move-in will be a really big factor. He is battling for a starting spot, and regardless will play plenty and he will add some more speed and quality to the recieving unit.

[Favpack]

Thought I would re-open this good thread.

After watching the SLC/DR game and watching Lufkin all year - hands down SLC's receivers are better. Absolutely Lufkin has dangerous receivers and they've proven it this year. If LP continues to mature, they could be very lethal come playoff time, but SLC's receivers are simply the best.

Case in point - SLC's third receiver - Evan Fentress (sp) caught 3 td passes Thursday night - and he's their third receiver. Lufkin's third receiver, Thad Gordon, I believe has 2 td passes on the year on around 12 catches.

I do think Dez Bryant has over-delivered - he has been amazing and expectations were high. But, SLC's Jacobsen is awesome - and Renfro (for whatever reason?) has not even hit stride yet.

The only I see to slow down SLC's receiving corp is through a pass rush- if McElroy has time - they will score and score in bunches.

[drgnbkr]

Thought I would re-open this good thread.

After watching the SLC/DR game and watching Lufkin all year - hands down SLC's receivers are better. Absolutely Lufkin has dangerous receivers and they've proven it this year. If LP continues to mature, they could be very lethal come playoff time, but SLC's receivers are simply the best.

Case in point - SLC's third receiver - Evan Fentress (sp) caught 3 td passes Thursday night - and he's their third receiver. Lufkin's third receiver, Thad Gordon, I believe has 2 td passes on the year on around 12 catches.

I do think Dez Bryant has over-delivered - he has been amazing and expectations were high. But, SLC's Jacobsen is awesome - and Renfro (for whatever reason?) has not even hit stride yet.

The only I see to slow down SLC's receiving corp is through a pass rush- if McElroy has time - they will score and score in bunches.

Fav, we are at a disadvantage because we have'nt been able to see your guys, but your right, ours have been very productive. A lot of people have tried to criticize Carroll for not going with second teamers late in blowouts, but the fact is Coach Dodge has done more substituting throughout the games this year than I've ever seen. It all starts with playing 8 WR's...they are always fresh, they are all good and it wears on the DB's as the game progresses. The main defensive unit is usually in the game late because none of them play special teams..that is the job of the defensive backups and they have gotten a lot of work on the kickoffs. I hope to get a look at your receivers sometime this year..who knows maybe we can go at it a 3rd time! Good luck to you guys.

[Favpack]

As good as you guys are Drgnbkr - you'll just have to deflect the running it up cat-calls. Obviously Dodge doesn't do that - he has to run his system and assume the other team can keep you under 70. A 4th team wr needs a shot and we all know injuries are much more likely when you start telling guys to take it easy.

I was very impressed with your receivers Thurs. night. I hope McElroy knows how fortunate he is. Amazing Oline and and his 3rd best receiver is really good.

[drgnbkr]

As good as you guys are Drgnbkr - you'll just have to deflect the running it up cat-calls. Obviously Dodge doesn't do that - he has to run his system and assume the other team can keep you under 70. A 4th team wr needs a shot and we all know injuries are much more likely when you start telling guys to take it easy.

I was very impressed with your receivers Thurs. night. I hope McElroy knows how fortunate he is. Amazing Oline and and his 3rd best receiver is really good.

The receiver I'm sure your referring to, Evan Fentriss #8 is the move-in from Lake Highlands, I met his parents the other night, and they said they looked at moving to Southlake in the late 80's & did'nt. Said Evan was unsure about moving right before his senior year, but obviously has fit right in.

[Primetime536]

The receiver I'm sure your referring to, Evan Fentriss #8 is the move-in from Lake Highlands, I met his parents the other night, and they said they looked at moving to Southlake in the late 80's & did'nt. Said Evan was unsure about moving right before his senior year, but obviously has fit right in.
SLC carrol WR didnt look to fast, with the exception of jacobson and refreno(however you spell it). However they seemed to have great hands, and ran good routes.

[drgnbkr]

SLC carrol WR didnt look to fast, with the exception of jacobson and refreno(however you spell it). However they seemed to have great hands, and ran good routes.

All I can say is they have been more than fast enough to get by every DB we've played this year...no one's covered them yet....A good majority of the routes have been deep this year, fewer of the underneath stuff.

[DC2145]

hmm, seems kind of weird an 8th grader being good enough to start varsity, i was just thinking that he would get clobered becasue hed be a lot smaller and stuff, but i havent heard about it, unless your referrnig to what southlake thug said he said 8th reciver

Just for the record we do have a 8th grader that is 6' 3" and goes about 170.

[rich_pack]

Does it really matter who is the best? Did we have this same topic last year at one point?

[southlake thug]

Fentris is just about as fast as McKay and Clint from what I have heard. And look at that last post before this was re-opened. I am a damn genious. I told yall Fentriss would make a difference.

No one is even talking about James Allen or Corbin Smiter. They would be star WR at any other school in the country.

[dragons08]

smiter had some big games, was it against coppell, where he had a HUGE game?? i dont think this thread should of been reopened, most of the carroll fans havent seen the Lufkin Wr's, so we cant really judge it, but itd be hard to say theres a team with better wr's then carroll, our wr's are insanely good

[Favpack]

I re-opened it because most of us actually saw SLC for the first time - they are loaded at wr. Rich, not sure if anything really matters - just some banter back and forth.

The key wr for LP is Shankle - been pretty quiet - but his potential is obvious. I think the coaches are grappling for how to use him more effectively - hopefully he goes 100% Mon. night against KF.

[drgnbkr]

I'll say this about Carroll....our D is as good as I've seen in a while, with the quality of our O line, QB's & receivers, & with the emergence of our running game, we are now, officially, a handful.....this has been an unofficial Carroll Dragon Press Conference..Thank you for coming, I will now take questions....?

[zippy]

emergence of the running game? I didnt see it last week, and how is Newton anyway?


I'll say this about Carroll....our D is as good as I've seen in a while, with the quality of our O line, QB's & receivers, & with the emergence of our running game, we are now, officially, a handful.....this has been an unofficial Carroll Dragon Press Conference..Thank you for coming, I will now take questions....?

[rich_pack]

I think if Lufkin and SLC meet up this year it will come down to the last team with the ball, just like every year they play. I have a really hard time seeing SLC being stopped offensivley, but Lufkin has the best defense to take them down. But on the other hand, I see SLC D having a hard time stopping Lufkin also, so I will say it will end in a tie,,,hehe

[drgnbkr]

emergence of the running game? I didnt see it last week, and how is Newton anyway?

Newton is fine..averaging about 10 yards per touch....and only a sophmore..imagine that...

[dragons08]

I think if Lufkin and SLC meet up this year it will come down to the last team with the ball, just like every year they play. I have a really hard time seeing SLC being stopped offensivley, but Lufkin has the best defense to take them down. But on the other hand, I see SLC D having a hard time stopping Lufkin also, so I will say it will end in a tie,,,hehe
so if it ends in a tie..both teams advanceing, so they combine teams to take on the other team...damn i sure would hate to be that team that would play the combined team!

[TrojanHorse03]

Damn I wish i got on to thread a lot earlier(damn work) but perhaps the better question is who has the better qb? The honest to GOD, completely unbiased truth is the receiving cores r actually dead even with good primary stars in McKay Jacobson and Clint Renfro for Slc and Dez Bryant and EJ Shankle for the pack and good complimentary players. However in terms of the quality of the passes thrown and the plays being called that has to go to Slc.

[LoneStarProud]

I can see it now...DDaddy getting some legal help with some speeding ticket and winds up being best friends with Imlacable44. To return the favor Implacable44 recieves a discount on a vascectomy. They end up retireing
together and sit in a fishing boat on golden pond every day and argue which bait will catch more fish. :p

[dragons08]

I can see it now...DDaddy getting some legal help with some speeding ticket and winds up being best friends with Imlacable44. To return the favor Implacable44 recieves a discount on a vascectomy. They end up retireing
together and sit in a fishing boat on golden pond every day and argue which bait will catch more fish. :p

ahh hellucinating??

[SLC13]

I think if Lufkin and SLC meet up this year it will come down to the last team with the ball, just like every year they play. I have a really hard time seeing SLC being stopped offensivley, but Lufkin has the best defense to take them down. But on the other hand, I see SLC D having a hard time stopping Lufkin also, so I will say it will end in a tie,,,hehe
About the only way that the Lufkin/SLC games could get any more exciting would be an OT game. Knowing how competitive our teams are it would probably take multiple OT's to settle it....... :)

[dragons08]

speaking of ot..what are the ot rules? is it like NFL or NCAA?

[zippy]

High school uses NCAA rulebook. Exact same as college in OT

speaking of ot..what are the ot rules? is it like NFL or NCAA?

[zippy]

10 yards per touch, even after last Thursdays game? He had 10 yards the whole time he played, until they knocked him out of the game. Thats why I was asking if he was ok or not. Not asking about yards per touch.

Newton is fine..averaging about 10 yards per touch....and only a sophmore..imagine that...

[drgnbkr]

Because the running game had been producing 300+ yards per game, DR decided to load up on it...Carroll shredded them with the pass. As coach Dodge said after the game, "We took what they gave us, they made the choice to load the box, so we took the pass" it's hard to take away both...