Carroll # 4 in National Prep Poll

[drgnbkr]

Southlake Carroll is ranked fourth in the "National Prep Poll", behind Mission Viejo, Valdosta, GA, and lakeland Fl. Other Texas schools are Longview @ 11 and La Marque @ 25...for what it's worth....

[pack0808]

national polls crack me up!! longview and lamarque are ahead of lufkin??sometimes i wonder why they bother?? do not get me wrong, both longview and lamarqe are great programs that will have very good teams next year but i do not think they deserve to be ahead of lufkin. well i do not know about lamarque this year on how good they will be?? our 4a east texas friend kilgore handled them last year.

[drgnbkr]

I agree, the poll done by this web site is fairly accurate, with a lot of work behind it, Dave's seems to be economics/politically oriented, but the national HS polls are really just guessing....like I said..."for what it's worth", which is not much...

[RedRage00]

national polls crack me up!! longview and lamarque are ahead of lufkin??sometimes i wonder why they bother?? do not get me wrong, both longview and lamarqe are great programs that will have very good teams next year but i do not think they deserve to be ahead of lufkin. well i do not know about lamarque this year on how good they will be?? our 4a east texas friend kilgore handled them last year.


No one deserves to be ahead of Lufkin :rolleyes: :D :p

Just teasing...

RR

[c-lisle]

national polls crack me up!! longview and lamarque are ahead of lufkin??sometimes i wonder why they bother?? do not get me wrong, both longview and lamarqe are great programs that will have very good teams next year but i do not think they deserve to be ahead of lufkin. well i do not know about lamarque this year on how good they will be?? our 4a east texas friend kilgore handled them last year.


Couldn't agree more. Any poll that doesn't have SLC #1 and Lufkin ahead of Longview is no good IMO. Their records the last 4-6 years speak for themselves. I think inly 6 or 7 for both.

[concha]

Jamie over at PrepNation did a pretty good job with Ohio (in picking the top contenders).

#6 Colerain
#10 St. Ignatius
#22 Glenville

Glenville has the talent to move to #1 in Ohio (perhaps the nation given their roster - up to 8 D1s just in their senior class), but their coaching has not been the best in the state and therefore their consistency can leave something to be desired.

[Favpack]

They're probably only going by national figures/prep 100's that are coming back. SLC has McElroy-- Longview has McGee who has already committed to Texas. Assuming the writer has a brain, they probably just casually noticed Lufkin lost it's all-time leading rusher and assumed a slightly down year - but who knows on a national scope -- highlighting the silliness of a national hs poll.

[pack0808]

No one deserves to be ahead of Lufkin :rolleyes: :D :p

Just teasing...

RR


slc does!! :eek:

[Fleeman93]

Couldn't agree more. Any poll that doesn't have SLC #1 and Lufkin ahead of Longview is no good IMO. Their records the last 4-6 years speak for themselves. I think inly 6 or 7 for both.

I don't buy into that record over the last 4-6 year stuff. You have to put a team on the field that can win this year. I know the program has a lot to do with that and in some cases everything to do with it, but just because a team has been great for 10 years doesn't mean they will be in the 11th.

[dragons08]

slc does!! :eek:
you beat me to it..thats what i was going to say

[RedRage00]

Who's Lufkin? Never heard of these guys.... :p

I've never heard of that Carroll chick either :D

[football fanatic]

Is there a thread to this poll???

[c-lisle]

I don't buy into that record over the last 4-6 year stuff. You have to put a team on the field that can win this year. I know the program has a lot to do with that and in some cases everything to do with it, but just because a team has been great for 10 years doesn't mean they will be in the 11th.

Agreed, but I know what LP has talent wise this year, they will be great once again.

[SmilinTiger]

They're probably only going by national figures/prep 100's that are coming back. SLC has McElroy-- Longview has McGee who has already committed to Texas. Assuming the writer has a brain, they probably just casually noticed Lufkin lost it's all-time leading rusher and assumed a slightly down year - but who knows on a national scope -- highlighting the silliness of a national hs poll.

Sort of like the silliness of a national HS champion?

[dragons08]

Sort of like the silliness of a national HS champion?
no not that silly.. :D

[CoppellCowboy57]

Hahaha Southlakes not number one! *laughs in southlakes face* :D

[dragonsdaddy]

being anywhere in a national fool's poll is only slightly more important than......... no it's less important than anything that can happen in texas hs football.

[dragons08]

Hahaha Southlakes not number one! *laughs in southlakes face* :D
hahaha coppell got dismantled by southlake! *laughs in coppell's face* :D
haha sorry man had to do it...

[Bootsdaddy]

Ive noticed Longview is getting "much love" in the national polls-a little less in state polls. Heck, Dave has them 2nd in their district. For what's its worth.

[lonny23]

As much as I'd like to see Longview stay high, I bet they don't play up to expectations.

[friendswood72]

Man as much as I like lufkin, i wouldn't be talking too much smack about La Marque being ahead of you as they have easily been one of the most dominant programs in the past 15 years in Texas High School Football and would most likely give lufkin a VERY close game or hand them a loss.

[Bootsdaddy]

Man as much as I like lufkin, i wouldn't be talking too much smack about La Marque being ahead of you as they have easily been one of the most dominant programs in the past 15 years in Texas High School Football and would most likely give lufkin a VERY close game or hand them a loss.

LaMarque always has a good team and they have a great program but didnt they lose to Kilgore last year in the quarterfinals and narrowly defeated Jacksonville in the playoffs. The same Kilgore that beat John Tyler 7-6? John Tyler has been horrible the last 5 years. And Longview which has lost to Lufkin 9 times in a row absolutely spanked 4A DIV 1 Finalist Marshall last year. Div 1 Champ Ennis lost to Garland who were routed by Tyler Lee in the first round. Tyler Lee lost to Lufkin last year.

The LaMarque teams who were winning state championships and going to the finals in the early to mid '90's probably would have beaten Lufkin. But since '98 I seriously doubt that ANY 4A team could have beaten Lufkin or even hung with them for more than a half. If Im wrong Im sure someone will let me know.

[ktCarl]

You're wrong.

[Bootsdaddy]

You're wrong.

Feel free to elaborate such as examples etc. I respect great 4A programs but most dont have the depth or athletes to compete with top 5A teams. I realize LaMarque of all 4A teams probably has the athletes but i dont see them beating Lufkin, SLC, Longview, Katy etc.

Since 2001 Lufkin has only lost to 3 Texas teams: SLC, Tyler Lee, and Garland with one other loss coming to Shreveport Evangel in '01. Gimme a break. Lamarque nearly lost to Jacksonville last season. No way LaMarque, Marshall, Yates, Kilgore, or Ennis comes within 2 touchdowns of the 2004 Lufkin team. There's a reason they have classifications based on enrollment ,ya know?

[KT2000]

As much as I'd like to see Longview stay high, I bet they don't play up to expectations.

Well done, your post is now a fixture in the Lobo locker room. ;) Not that a Judson fan is worried about riling up Longview.

On a more serious note, an obvious word of caution for this season would be to be careful what you post because judging from e-mails I've received and first hand accounts I've heard through the years...most of us have no idea who reads this board, so you really never know where your post will end up.

[c-lisle]

As much as I'd like to see Longview stay high, I bet they don't play up to expectations.

How much you want to bet? If they stay healthy they will go undefeated in the regular season again this year.

[Favpack]

How much you want to bet? If they stay healthy they will go undefeated in the regular season again this year.

Shocking - Lonny dissing Longview - so (yawn) what's new - Lonny thinks Longview is over-rated.

Of course, Lonny thought Judson was the greatest team in the nation last year until they were pummeled by a decent, but not great, Spring Westfield team that lost to Tyler Lee, that lost to Longview.

Hmmmm - guess that means Judson really sucked last year. ;)

[garlandowl08]

LaMarque always has a good team and they have a great program but didnt they lose to Kilgore last year in the quarterfinals and narrowly defeated Jacksonville in the playoffs. The same Kilgore that beat John Tyler 7-6? John Tyler has been horrible the last 5 years. And Longview which has lost to Lufkin 9 times in a row absolutely spanked 4A DIV 1 Finalist Marshall last year. Div 1 Champ Ennis lost to Garland who were routed by Tyler Lee in the first round. Tyler Lee lost to Lufkin last year.

The LaMarque teams who were winning state championships and going to the finals in the early to mid '90's probably would have beaten Lufkin. But since '98 I seriously doubt that ANY 4A team could have beaten Lufkin or even hung with them for more than a half. If Im wrong Im sure someone will let me know.

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, lets not go and say something foolinsh like "garland was routed by Tyler Lee. For most of the game, it was very close. The final score simply doesn't reflct that.

[pack0808]

tyler lee won that game pretty handidly regardless if it was close for a while.

[farmerfan]

Feel free to elaborate such as examples etc. I respect great 4A programs but most dont have the depth or athletes to compete with top 5A teams. I realize LaMarque of all 4A teams probably has the athletes but i dont see them beating Lufkin, SLC, Longview, Katy etc.

Since 2001 Lufkin has only lost to 3 Texas teams: SLC, Tyler Lee, and Garland with one other loss coming to Shreveport Evangel in '01. Gimme a break. Lamarque nearly lost to Jacksonville last season. No way LaMarque, Marshall, Yates, Kilgore, or Ennis comes within 2 touchdowns of the 2004 Lufkin team. There's a reason they have classifications based on enrollment ,ya know?


Since november of 2001 SLC has only lost to 2 teams, Katy and 4A Ennis, Ennis handed Carroll one of their most lopsided playoff defeats ever. I would venture to say that LaMarque would give any 5A team a very tough football game, and would beat about 99% of them, Ennis is the same way, Garland beat Ennis last year after coming from 20 behind, we will see how the Owls do this year when they travel to Ennis. This is a tired old topic, and one that will be debated for ever, I just believe that you have some 4A teams who could beat any 5A team.

[pack0808]

i agree for the most part and yes 5a garland barely beat 4a God's ennis last year but do not forget longview beat marshall something like 41-14 and marshall had ennis dead in the water in the 4adiv1 finals. what was the score 20-19 ennis?? marshall was gettting beat up in 5a before going to 4a and now they are one of the best in 4a. might be something to that?? john tyler, a team that hardly ever wins a 5a game anymore lost to kilgore 7-6 and barely lost to texarkana and both of those are top 4a teams. kilgore won the 4a div2 championship and beat lamarque. slc was not the same in 2001 in 4a as they have been since they joined 5a without question. they came in at a perfect time with dodge and due to the fact they were booming in growth. that was proven when they manhandled denton ryan twice last year. denton ryan was a 4a GOD!! going to title games 4 year straight in the last 4 years at 4a and winning 3 titles. the 2001 slc team was not even in the same ball park as the slc 2002-2004 teams so that is not a fair comparison. in my opinion, 5a is clearly the tougher classification overall but many top 4a teams could compete and beat top 5a teams but you still have to give the edge to 5a. especially now with slc and denton ryan both in 5a. i think it is pretty clear. by the way, didn't some pretty weak 5a team almost beat lamarque last year?? was it galveston ball?? i am not sure?? maybe i am wrong??

[dada]

Feel free to elaborate such as examples etc. I respect great 4A programs but most dont have the depth or athletes to compete with top 5A teams. I realize LaMarque of all 4A teams probably has the athletes but i dont see them beating Lufkin, SLC, Longview, Katy etc.

Since 2001 Lufkin has only lost to 3 Texas teams: SLC, Tyler Lee, and Garland with one other loss coming to Shreveport Evangel in '01. Gimme a break. Lamarque nearly lost to Jacksonville last season. No way LaMarque, Marshall, Yates, Kilgore, or Ennis comes within 2 touchdowns of the 2004 Lufkin team. There's a reason they have classifications based on enrollment ,ya know?
I'm gonna have disagree on some of this...I think SOME 4A teams can hold their own against SOME 5A teams...LaMarque is one of them....so is Texas City, Bay City..Yates and a few more. LaMarque Beat Washington HANDIDLY...later that year Washington to went into half time leading Katy....Katy blew them away the second half....but you get my point. Talent wise I think 4a and 5a teams are pretty equal..it's the enrollment size that decides wether they are 5a or 4a....

[farmerfan]

I wont ever say that 4A is tougher than 5A, all i think, and it is my opinion, is that teams such as Ennis, LaMarque, Highland Park, Texas High and a few others would beat the likes of any team in 5A. Sure Ennis got everything they wanted from Marshall, but they still found a way to win the game, maybe Marshall going to 4A was the same as Carroll going to 5A, they just went at the right time.
I also am not going to try and compare the Carroll team of 01 to the recent teams, however they were on a roll in the playoffs that year and still had Dodge as a head coach, and Ennis blew them off the field in the second half of that football game. I just believe that you put Ennis or LaMarque up against the big boys in 5A, then they would step up to the level of their competition, and play a great football game and have as good a chance of winning as their opponent would.

[dada]

I wont ever say that 4A is tougher than 5A, all i think, and it is my opinion, is that teams such as Ennis, LaMarque, Highland Park, Texas High and a few others would beat the likes of any team in 5A. Sure Ennis got everything they wanted from Marshall, but they still found a way to win the game, maybe Marshall going to 4A was the same as Carroll going to 5A, they just went at the right time.
I also am not going to try and compare the Carroll team of 01 to the recent teams, however they were on a roll in the playoffs that year and still had Dodge as a head coach, and Ennis blew them off the field in the second half of that football game. I just believe that you put Ennis or LaMarque up against the big boys in 5A, then they would step up to the level of their competition, and play a great football game and have as good a chance of winning as their opponent would.
I couldn't agree more...I think SEALY during their run may have been able to compete in 4A or 5A.

[dragonsdaddy]

so these teams would, or could beat any 5a team. i guess any thing is possible, but there is no way any 4a team would have beaten us in 02 or 04, or northshore in 03, or kt in 03. not happening for me.

[dada]

so these teams would, or could beat any 5a team. i guess any thing is possible, but there is no way any 4a team would have beaten us in 02 or 04, or northshore in 03, or kt in 03. not happening for me.

Who's to say they wouldn't???...The only explination is "We are 5a...they are 4A"...One school has more students than the other...but they BOTH can only put 11 on the field at a time.

[farmerfan]

In 02 Denton Ryan had the athletes to shut down Carroll and beat them, that might have been one of the best defenses I have ever seen. Also Ennis could have beaten Carroll in 02 and esp in 03. Carroll had their shot against Ennis, and Ennis made easy work of the Dragons.

The could or would was simply meant by you wont be able to tell until they meet on the field, but all these hardheads who believe cause the 5A label is by a team that they would beat these great 4A's is just flat out ignorant.

[dada]

Plugerville lost to 4A Tivy last year..but held it's own against Judson and Lufkin.

[dragonsdaddy]

my opinion is based on the fact that i have watched hs football with more or less keen interest since 1965, and have been to more playoff games than i care to admit, and those 4 teams i named would not have been beatable under any but extreme circumstances by any 4a team, or almost any 5a teams for that matter. these are just my opinions, but they do stem from no small amount of experience.

[lonny23]

Shocking - Lonny dissing Longview - so (yawn) what's new - Lonny thinks Longview is over-rated.

Of course, Lonny thought Judson was the greatest team in the nation last year until they were pummeled by a decent, but not great, Spring Westfield team that lost to Tyler Lee, that lost to Longview.

Hmmmm - guess that means Judson really sucked last year. ;)
I'm not dissing Longview at all. I think they'll go 10-0 again. I just think they'll lose to Lufkin in the playoffs again. You have a better coach in Outlaw. The national poll says they're #2 in Texas and although I think they're top 10, I don't think they're #2. I get tired of Longview losing to Lufkin and I'll say the same thing about ET football as I do about 26-5A. Don't put Longview in front of Lufkin until they show they are better and actually beat them. The SA media always wants to say somebody else in SA is the new power and most of the time, they have to come back around to praising Judson. At least SV has proven themselves and deserves a lot of credit, unlike some of the other teams in town.

Don't confuse what I say about Longview. I say I want them to win games and you don't hear me say that about Top 10 teams in 5A. You hear me say I want them to lose.

KT, you're right about the bulletin board material. Plenty of people read this board and not all of them are from 5A schools.

[dada]

my opinion is based on the fact that i have watched hs football with more or less keen interest since 1965, and have been to more playoff games than i care to admit, and those 4 teams i named would not have been beatable under any but extreme circumstances by any 4a team, or almost any 5a teams for that matter. these are just my opinions, but they do stem from no small amount of experience.
I understand that..but saying it CAN'T Happen is stretching it....I'm pretty sure a lot of 5a teams said the same thing about Carrol when they were getting ready to move up to 5a...Westlake too.

[drgnbkr]

The classifications are created because the lower classifications just don't have the numbers of players out for football to compete...4A is not 5A because they don't have the number of students to pick form or who want to play sports...Ennis could never have played with Carroll 02-03-04, Katy 03, Lufkin or North Shore..not because they are 5A vs 4A, but because the 5A teams were bigger, faster & more skilled in depth....I was there for Ennis / Southlake in 2000..no way you'll convince me they could have hung with any of the above teams....

[dragonsdaddy]

extreme circumstance to me means that maybe 5 times out of a hundred they might pull off the upset.

the fact that ennis handled the 01 slc team proves nothing. the 02 team was very, very much better than 01. a very good qb replaced an ok qb. a great rb replaced an ok one. all the receivers got a year older and several years better. the defense really jelled and got a lot better. the 02 and 04 team would have beaten the 01 team 99 out of a hundred, maybe more like 9999 out of 10k.

[dada]

The classifications are created because the lower classifications just don't have the numbers of players out for football to compete...4A is not 5A because they don't have the number of students to pick form or who want to play sports...Ennis could never have played with Carroll 02-03-04, Katy 03, Lufkin or North Shore..not because they are 5A vs 4A, but because the 5A teams were bigger, faster & more skilled in depth....I was there for Ennis / Southlake in 2000..no way you'll convince me they could have hung with any of the above teams....
But they are based on ENROLLMENT right? That's not saying they are less talented...like I said...one school might have 80 kids SUITED UP..the other team 40....but that dosent make one teams 11 more talented than the other teams 11. I see 4a and 5a schools blocks from each other...same caliber of kids..but they amount of students they have put them in different classifications. Strake for instance is in a district with katy and 2 of the top 5 largest schools in the state(Elsik and hastings) and they held up pretty good.

[farmerfan]

Ennis in 02 and 03 had more experience at RB,WR and QB than the 01 team. They also had a defense who practiced against the spread day in and day out, and a coach who knows as much if not more about the spread than mr dodge. The best Ennis team was in 03, they got upset early by Highland Park, but they would have beat anyone in the state that year with the exception of North Shore. The same could be said for LaMarque. As great as these Dragon teams have been lately, I have seen teams in the last 15 years of watching high school football who could have beat the Dragons.

[lonny23]

i agree for the most part and yes 5a garland barely beat 4a God's ennis last year but do not forget longview beat marshall something like 41-14 and marshall had ennis dead in the water in the 4adiv1 finals. what was the score 20-19 ennis?? marshall was gettting beat up in 5a before going to 4a and now they are one of the best in 4a. might be something to that?? john tyler, a team that hardly ever wins a 5a game anymore lost to kilgore 7-6 and barely lost to texarkana and both of those are top 4a teams. kilgore won the 4a div2 championship and beat lamarque. slc was not the same in 2001 in 4a as they have been since they joined 5a without question. they came in at a perfect time with dodge and due to the fact they were booming in growth. that was proven when they manhandled denton ryan twice last year. denton ryan was a 4a GOD!! going to title games 4 year straight in the last 4 years at 4a and winning 3 titles. the 2001 slc team was not even in the same ball park as the slc 2002-2004 teams so that is not a fair comparison. in my opinion, 5a is clearly the tougher classification overall but many top 4a teams could compete and beat top 5a teams but you still have to give the edge to 5a. especially now with slc and denton ryan both in 5a. i think it is pretty clear. by the way, didn't some pretty weak 5a team almost beat lamarque last year?? was it galveston ball?? i am not sure?? maybe i am wrong??
Marshall has been a chump in 4A, too. Even Mt. Pleasant was beating them for playoff spots a few years ago. Marshall is on the upswing. Yeah, 4A schools can beat 5A. That's why SV and SLC got to the title game in 2002, which was their 1st year in 5A. Top 4A teams can compete very well in 5A. More times than not, they wouldn't win a title. You can't put too much stock in the way a team performs in 1 particular game. Kilgore was a lot better than JT, but didn't show it when they played.

[dragonsdaddy]

they would have beat anyone in the state except gpns, yet they lost to hp, so maybe they wouldn't have beaten anyone. they could have beaten many, i agree. of course you and your 15 years trumps my 40 years, but my opinion isn't swayed.

[farmerfan]

i realize that blood runs thick and for you it is hard to see past your own kids and the success they have enjoyed. I also realize it seems flawed to say that Ennis could have beaten anyone in the state accept GPNS even though HP did beat them. If you had seen Ennis play that year, they had put up numbers that rivaled that of GPNS. The were unfortunate in the one game they did not play great, HP came out and played above their heads. I will stand by my opinion on how that Ennis team would have done against SLC or Katy in 03. With the same going for DR or Ennis against Carroll in 02, I feel strong in my convictions and in the teams i have seen play, i have been lucky in my young life to have witnessed some great football teams that do not get enough credit, and to have seen some that might get to much credit, once again I like yourself can not be convinced by the other and I will go ahead and leave it at that.

[c-lisle]

I'm not dissing Longview at all. I think they'll go 10-0 again. I just think they'll lose to Lufkin in the playoffs again. You have a better coach in Outlaw. The national poll says they're #2 in Texas and although I think they're top 10, I don't think they're #2. I get tired of Longview losing to Lufkin and I'll say the same thing about ET football as I do about 26-5A. Don't put Longview in front of Lufkin until they show they are better and actually beat them. The SA media always wants to say somebody else in SA is the new power and most of the time, they have to come back around to praising Judson. At least SV has proven themselves and deserves a lot of credit, unlike some of the other teams in town.

Don't confuse what I say about Longview. I say I want them to win games and you don't hear me say that about Top 10 teams in 5A. You hear me say I want them to lose.

KT, you're right about the bulletin board material. Plenty of people read this board and not all of them are from 5A schools.

If Longview and Lufkin play this year, Ivory and Mcgee will dominate that game. I know LP will have the best D in the state, but no D will be able to even slow them down. I just hope they stay healthy, Lview's season is in their hands. Outlaw can be the world's best coach ever but he won't be able to stop these guys. Longview won't committ the turnovers this year and will win easily. You heard it here first.

[dragonsdaddy]

i too was lucky in my much longer life to follow a great team(plano from 65 til 94) and thus saw plenty of other great teams. ennis in 01 would have given plenty of teams fits and definitely could have beaten almost any 5a team occasionally. didn't see the 03 ennis, so i'll take your word for it, but the 2 and 04 slc teams would have beaten the 01 ennis team, imo. having seen the dr team in 02, we would have handled them too, i believe. they were a very good team and would have fared well at any level.

[drgnbkr]

Yeah, I agree, 02-03 DR played either before or after us in the playoffs at several of the stadiums, and we got to mingle with their fans and see some of their games....they were'nt going to be able to handle Katy, Carroll, Lufkin any more than Ennis would have.....a lot of us have seen a lot of football farmerfan, and with all due respect to your often valid posts, in my view, your off on this one...

[farmerfan]

its just a matter of opinion, no disrespect taken by me. I just know what I saw in 03 with Ennis and Ryan, Ryan was not the same team in 03 that they were in 02, in my opinion the 03 Raiders would have gotten blown out by any 5A team, and would have lost to Ennis had they not choked against HP. I also believe that the Ennis offense of 03 was the best in the state, once again that is my own opinion.
Where I draw my thoughts about the 02 Ryan team is, they had the defense to play with Carroll, they also had the leader on offense in James Battle who was the best QB to ever walk the halls of Ryan High School. The 02 Raider defense would have given Carroll fits, they had the speed and size to play with the Dragons man for man, and cause some problems, they had a defense that was more athletic than Lufkin or Sam Houston, and both those defenses were able to casue some problems for the Dragons. Once again, i am just stating my opinion, and what I observed and can remember, maybe some of the pain killers im on (broke my ankle this past weekend) are also affecting my view, the one thing I do know is that all these teams I am talking about, are teams I have grown to love, and expect to watch in December, and i mean no disrespect to Carroll, its just the way I feel concercing the outcome of a mythical game between any of those teams.

[lonny23]

If Longview and Lufkin play this year, Ivory and Mcgee will dominate that game. I know LP will have the best D in the state, but no D will be able to even slow them down. I just hope they stay healthy, Lview's season is in their hands. Outlaw can be the world's best coach ever but he won't be able to stop these guys. Longview won't committ the turnovers this year and will win easily. You heard it here first.
I hope so. I thought about going to the game last year, but stayed in Longview and listened on the radio. Turnovers make a big difference. Sometimes they're a fluke and sometimes it's a sign of preparation. The streak has to end one of these days. Hey, Longview can win state. I don't think you can say that about a lot of teams even before the year starts.

[dragonsdaddy]

sorry to hear about that. hope you were doing something fun to merit the injury.

our biases are well founded and accepted by most, and anyone who thinks they don't matter needs to get off the mind-altering drugs. would have been some good matchups for sure.

[pack0808]

Marshall has been a chump in 4A, too. Even Mt. Pleasant was beating them for playoff spots a few years ago. Marshall is on the upswing. Yeah, 4A schools can beat 5A. That's why SV and SLC got to the title game in 2002, which was their 1st year in 5A. Top 4A teams can compete very well in 5A. More times than not, they wouldn't win a title. You can't put too much stock in the way a team performs in 1 particular game. Kilgore was a lot better than JT, but didn't show it when they played.


lonny, marshall was a decent 4a team in 2003 and a very very good 4a team in 2004 but look what happened when they played top 5a competition in those years. lufkin beat them 39-3 in 2003 while longview beat them 49-16 in 2004 marshall was 1 point from being the div1a champion and longview beat them 40-15!! longview did not even make it to the state semis in 5a. garland beat ennis!! slc and smithson valley are 5a for a reason!! they have 5a numbers. 5a is clearly the better classification considering many of their past great 4a powerhouses are in 5a now in denton ryan, slc, and smithson valley. i would put slc, lufkin, longview, katy, tyler lee, judson, northshore, westfield, smithson valley, denton ryan up against ennis, marshall, texarkana, lamarque, kilgore, highland park, bay city any day of the week. in my opinion the best 5a teams would win 90 percent of those games over the best 4a teams.

who is the other team that won or played in a 4a championshp in 2003 besides denton ryan that did not do anything significant in 5a in 2004. was it north crowley?? my mind is going blank??

isn't brenham a very good 4a team?? didn't nacaroaches almost beat them last year??

[farmerfan]

sorry to hear about that. hope you were doing something fun to merit the injury.


thank you

Pack, you are right it was North Crowley who won state in 03, moved up to 5A last year. However they were a lot like the Trinity team in 92 who made it to the state finals, they came into the playoffs with around 5 defeats, they ran up against Texas High in the semis, and Texas high had suspended there all everything senior QB a few days before the game, NC caught a break and won a state title.

[drgnbkr]

lonny, marshall was a decent 4a team in 2003 and a very very good 4a team in 2004 but look what happened when they played top 5a competition in those years. lufkin beat them 39-3 in 2003 while longview beat them 49-16 in 2004 marshall was 1 point from being the div1a champion and longview beat them 40-15!! longview did not even make it to the state semis in 5a. garland beat ennis!! slc and smithson valley are 5a for a reason!! they have 5a numbers. 5a is clearly the better classification considering many of their past great 4a powerhouses are in 5a now in denton ryan, slc, and smithson valley. i would put slc, lufkin, longview, katy, tyler lee, judson, northshore, westfield, smithson valley, denton ryan up against ennis, marshall, texarkana, lamarque, kilgore, highland park, bay city any day of the week. in my opinion the best 5a teams would win 90 percent of those games over the best 4a teams.

who is the other team that won or played in a 4a championshp in 2003 besides denton ryan that did not do anything significant in 5a in 2004. was it north crowley?? my mind is going blank??

isn't brenham a very good 4a team?? didn't nacaroaches almost beat them last year??

Pack, saying Denton Ryan did'nt do anything significant in 04 is not exactly accurate..they beat some very good teams, were State and Nationally ranked and only lost 2 games...both to Carroll......I also wish Farmerfan a speedy recovery..at least you can sit with your leg elevated & type!... ;)

[farmerfan]

Its a burden. Mom is getting mad becaue she does not want her new desk or wall or whatever she has this computer on to be damaged by this cast, but she is also glad to have her youngest home for a while, cant go back to the apt for a while, my apartment is on the 3rd floor. Thanks for the wishes guys.

[bleedgreen]

lonny, lonny, lonny----you and your "predictions"......i guess the same could be said for Judson as well.....i don't think they will live up to their expectations either......forget a state title, forget Lufkin---the first game is against Marshall. that is the only game that Longview should be focused on at this time...."state title"??....you guys crack me up(especially Longview fans)--that is way too FAR OFF to even talk about......................who even knows if Lufkin and Longview will even make it that far??? i'm not about to set myself up for some "crow" pie this early....yall go ahead..........................

[bleedgreen]

Shocking - Lonny dissing Longview - so (yawn) what's new - Lonny thinks Longview is over-rated.

Of course, Lonny thought Judson was the greatest team in the nation last year until they were pummeled by a decent, but not great, Spring Westfield team that lost to Tyler Lee, that lost to Longview.

Hmmmm - guess that means Judson really sucked last year. ;)



BINGO!! good post Favpack--LOL

[bleedgreen]

hope you are feeling better, Farmerfan-----been there a few times...it sucks!!

[drgnbkr]

BINGO!! good post Favpack--LOL

It was a good post Fav....we have to jump on Lonny when we get the chance!..... :cool:

[bleedgreen]

this is true, drgnbkr.....i just wish that he would pick on SLC or Lufkin or SOMEBODY else than Longview EVERY year--LOL.............lonny is lonny, wouldn't be the same without his pessimism for my Lobos(and his love for his beloved, God-given Rockets)--LOL...............................

[friendswood72]

hey im not saying La Marque would spank any 5a team but i mean they would make ALOT of 5a teams look like small children with their speed, size, and wealth of talent. La Marque's "Baby coogs" lost to Kilgore, BARELY. Some referred to it as a JV team because of the massive quantities of sophomore starters. Now that the baby coogs are all grown up, I would love for them to play a decent 5a team maybe like Pearland which is close by. I think Bay City could also hang with some 5a teams aswell as teams like Stephenville, Highland Park, Ennis, Texas High, and a few others. Don't get me wrong Ive seen the pack play at old abe but until you see La Marque play don't doubt them.

[KTFootball_05]

It is my contention that all polls and ranking are good for is, to give people somrthing to talk about untill the playoffs start.

[lonny23]

this is true, drgnbkr.....i just wish that he would pick on SLC or Lufkin or SOMEBODY else than Longview EVERY year--LOL.............lonny is lonny, wouldn't be the same without his pessimism for my Lobos(and his love for his beloved, God-given Rockets)--LOL...............................
SLC doesn't give me a chance to pick on them. Believe me I would if I could. I can't pick on Lufkin too much because they barely lose to SLC. I want them to lose more than SLC.

I pick on Laredo all the time and really enjoy saying stuff about Clemens. I try to be fair and say stuff about everybody. I say bad stuff about Judson, too. You can go back and read some of it.

Guys, I was an equal opportunity hater last year. Longview hated me and Lufkin started doing it with a little help from Tyler. I wasn't on the North Shore Christmas card list and SLC didn't always like me, either. Dallas didn't take up for SLC, though. Houston did help North Shore a little. I had decent approval ratings in RGV, SA, Centex and West Texas!

I won't be doing all the trash talking like last year, but you guys can go ahead and razz me if Judson loses. I won't ride you about your teams, either.

[myround0]

I'm not dissing Longview at all. I think they'll go 10-0 again. I just think they'll lose to Lufkin in the playoffs again. You have a better coach in Outlaw. The national poll says they're #2 in Texas and although I think they're top 10, I don't think they're #2. I get tired of Longview losing to Lufkin and I'll say the same thing about ET football as I do about 26-5A. Don't put Longview in front of Lufkin until they show they are better and actually beat them. The SA media always wants to say somebody else in SA is the new power and most of the time, they have to come back around to praising Judson. At least SV has proven themselves and deserves a lot of credit, unlike some of the other teams in town.

Don't confuse what I say about Longview. I say I want them to win games and you don't hear me say that about Top 10 teams in 5A. You hear me say I want them to lose.

KT, you're right about the bulletin board material. Plenty of people read this board and not all of them are from 5A schools.

Lonny....didn't Longview beat Tyler Lee who beat Spring Westfield, who is ranked ahead of Longview... Why don't we just let the season began and let it play itself out...when Longview is crowned State champs and national champs with two loses, and the hardest schedule in the nation...Lonny we will still have enough room for you on our band wagon...the LView from above

[drgnbkr]

There is another green team that plays the run pretty good...good luck with all of that!..... ;)

[lonny23]

Lonny....didn't Longview beat Tyler Lee who beat Spring Westfield, who is ranked ahead of Longview... Why don't we just let the season began and let it play itself out...when Longview is crowned State champs and national champs with two loses, and the hardest schedule in the nation...Lonny we will still have enough room for you on our band wagon...the LView from above
We have to speculate a lot right now since there aren't any games. I figure the best any of us can hope for with their team is that they are good enough to have a chance to win every game. Most of us could probably guarantee 150 teams in 5A that won't win state this year.

[implacable44]

any given friday man - - there is a reason that they game is played and not just chronicled to decide a victor. - SLC could have lost more than one game last year and in '02 and those were teams that they should have blown out on paper and past performance. - Judson lost last year to an inferior team because they didn't play as well that day -- so they lost. all this bias and speculation serves for nothing more than good humor and pride i.e. dragon's daddy who is proud of his sons who played for slc.

the 93 cowboys would have blown out the 85 bears - blah blah blah blah - there is no way to know -- NO WAY.

[pack0808]

i am not doubting lamarqe and i have seen them play. i would say they could beat 90 percent of the 5a teams but i know they would have some serious problems playing teams like slc, lufkin, longview, katy, tyler lee, judson etc etc the 03 la marque team was one of the top 3 best teams in the state period. i will give you that one. but last year there is no way the 2004 la marque team would have beat the 04 5a teams i just named. no way!!

[lonny23]

i am not doubting lamarqe and i have seen them play. i would say they could beat 90 percent of the 5a teams but i know they would have some serious problems playing teams like slc, lufkin, longview, katy, tyler lee, judson etc etc the 03 la marque team was one of the top 3 best teams in the state period. i will give you that one. but last year there is no way the 2004 la marque team would have beat the 04 5a teams i just named. no way!!
You're right on about the 90% part Pack. That tells me they can compete in 5A, but that doesn't mean they'll win a title. It doesn't make 4A inferior to 5A, but there is almost always a natural progression that the best teams in one class are better than the best teams in the class below them.

That's why I also say that the majority of 5A teams have very little chance to take a title. You need great coaching and/or good to great talent to put it all together. Great coaching is easy to spot because you always have real good years. Talent can come and go, but is usually mentioned and talked about before the games ever start. Among 5A teams there is a difference in playing levels and it's also how a Top 10 team might be a 20 point favorite over somebody else in the Top 20.

[dragonsdaddy]

any given friday man - - there is a reason that they game is played and not just chronicled to decide a victor. - SLC could have lost more than one game last year and in '02 and those were teams that they should have blown out on paper and past performance. - Judson lost last year to an inferior team because they didn't play as well that day -- so they lost. all this bias and speculation serves for nothing more than good humor and pride i.e. dragon's daddy who is proud of his sons who played for slc.

the 93 cowboys would have blown out the 85 bears - blah blah blah blah - there is no way to know -- NO WAY.

on paper and past performances, the 02 team would have been lucky to make the playoffs. no one except me predicted any success for slc. they were replacing a 2 time 3k yard qb with a complete unknown. they had 1 d-1 receiver and no other d-1 players in the sr class. one starting wr had 0 catches for his football career. and worst of all, they were moving up to play with the big boys as one of the smallest schools in 5a, in the bottom 5 per cent, and were 10-5 the year before.

there's little to detract from winning by a field goal or in a blowout. as long as you can say scoreboard, all is good.

[lonny23]

This says LaMarque is the #11 team in Texas and #1 in 4A. At #11, they are a 20 point underdog to SLC.

http://www.texasfootballratings.com/2005PreOverallRanks(1-300).html

[dragonsdaddy]

lonny, who is installing hs teams' point spreads? has it gotten so big that the bookies are setting up the spreads? power polls are notoriously inaccurate, generally.

[lonny23]

lonny, who is installing hs teams' point spreads? has it gotten so big that the bookies are setting up the spreads? power polls are notoriously inaccurate, generally.
Having LaMarque at #11 is a baseline to start the year. It's not uncommon for some teams to gain or drop 20 points in the power poll during the course of the year. The Texas Football Ratings power poll picks the correct winner over 80% of the time. We play the game because something else can happen on gameday. The higher the pointspread gets makes it that much harder for an upset. By time the playoffs roll around, this poll gives you a very good idea who is better.

By looking at the starting ratings, this poll really thinks it's going to be hard for a true outsider to take the title. Only the best teams get ratings up over 200 during the year and we have 4 teams starting the year over 200.

[bleedgreen]

lonny, pack0808, and dragonsdaddy------all of you guys have really great insight and opinions on this subject, as well as others---i guess that's why i like this site so much....keep up the good work.........

[dragonsdaddy]

thanks bleed, and we are glad to have you back after your unexcused absence.

[lonny23]

lonny, pack0808, and dragonsdaddy------all of you guys have really great insight and opinions on this subject, as well as others---i guess that's why i like this site so much....keep up the good work.........
Why that's the nicest thing you've ever said to me. It almost makes me want to cry. Let's play nice! :D

[Bootsdaddy]

In a completely unrelated note I remember 2A Newton spanking 4A Nacogdoches a couple of years ago in Nacogdoches. Newton may have been 3A then.

[CoppellCowboy57]

hahaha coppell got dismantled by southlake! *laughs in coppell's face* :D
haha sorry man had to do it...

Point takin... :(

[bleedgreen]

just call it like i see it guys--LOL............pack0808 and i are rough and rugged, East Texas folk that shoot it straight from the hip(and usually piss people off half of the time--LOL)....but, lonny and dragonsdaddy, i've told both of you guys a few times over the years that if your careers ever fold(or you retire, which ever comes first), yall could easily be writers, poets, or some type of columnist as eloquent as you guys put things..............

[pack0808]

I guess i will take that as a compliment Bleed?? ;) I am thinking i should start capitalizing my sentences like i am now, and i should start using proper punctuation so i can pretend to be as eloquent as D-Daddy and Lonny. Who am i kidding??LOL And yes i did have to look back at how Bleed spelled eloquent. lmao I hope he was right?? Bleed, you contribute immensely to this site also. How about those big words?? Hey, i am nothing more then a guy who loves Texas High School football and i would argue with my 4 month old baby if he could speak. Maybe i should have been a lawyer?? :D Well i dislike most lawyer's so maybe not?? I agree bleed, i do have a tendency to piss people off with my brutally honest statement's but that is just how i am.

[dragons08]

I guess i will take that as a compliment Bleed?? ;) I am thinking i should start capitalizing my sentences like i am now, and i should start using proper punctuation so i can pretend to be as eloquent as D-Daddy and Lonny. Who am i kidding??LOL And yes i did have to look back at how Bleed spelled eloquent. lmao I hope he was right?? Bleed, you contribute immensely to this site also. How about those big words?? Hey, i am nothing more then a guy who loves Texas High School football and i would argue with my 4 month old baby if he could speak. Maybe i should have been a lawyer?? :D Well i dislike most lawyer's so maybe not??
if your going to capitalizize annd use proper punucation, might as well thorw some big words in there, just make them sound like they you know the meaning, some of us wont know the diffrence

[pack0808]

i will keep that in mind dragons08!! ;) I acually have 2 college degree's believe it or not. Sad if you think about it?? ;) they practically give out those things these days. :D

[dragons08]

i will keep that in mind dragons08!! ;) I acually have 2 college degree's believe it or not. Sad if you think about it?? ;) they practically give out those things these days. :D
heck if you wnat, you can make up words that sound real, haha it works, to some extent