Austin loves Dixie Chicks

[slorch]

In the Chronicle this morning was an article about Dixie Chicks, their new albumn, and the lack of airplay the singles are receiving. It gave examples of a station in Conroe, one in Houston, and another one in Dallas I believe, that initially played the first single and were innundated by complaints about playing a song by the group that denounced Pres Bush and his Texas heritage. The programming directors collectively said it's just not worth the complaints we get to air the music that the once popular , now controversial band sings.
One station that said they play the music often and without complaint- you guessed it, the main country station in Austin. If silence is approval, then i would assume many more of their listeners agree with the Dixie Chicks' point of view.
it's nice to see freedom of speech complemented by freedom of listening...I can promise you, if they come on, even the old songs that I liked, I change the station immediately. I will not buy their stuff. they can give concerts at WNBA games and Democratic conventions for the rest of their careers, 'cause that's the only people that give a rip about them.

[svhorns]

Oh NO Dixie Chicks get played in Austin!!! the world is coming to an end!! good for you for turning the station:rolleyes:

[slorch]

that's not the point...

just adding one more layer to the Austin is liberal discussion. You know supporting my point with FACTS(or really a bunch of opinions)

[yankee]

liberal austin strikes again :rolleyes:

[Miss Kitty]

I thought they were history. You NEVER hear them in Houston. When I saw they had a new album I was shocked. They won't get any of my money either.

[Reaganrattler07]

Its just showing that Austin is liberal....course we already knew that...

[jtk1519]

They are not receiving much airplay in the San Francisco Bay area. This is proof that the Bay area is a bastion of Bush loving, fundamentalist conservatives. :rolleyes:

[drgnbkr]

The Dipseys are the biggest selling female country act of all time..I guess though they are the only female group of all time..any way, someone, for some reason, buys their records...I just change the channel too....Let em make fools of themselves I say!

[yankee]

The Dipseys are the biggest selling female country act of all time..I guess though they are the only female group of all time..any way, someone, for some reason, buys their records...I just change the channel too....Let em make fools of themselves I say!
werent they once booed out of a concert after making bush remarks?

[GoOwls]

Did any of you happen to see the Acadeny of Country Music Awards on tuesday night? During the last 30 minutes or so, the host of the show, my girl, Reba McEntire, came back from a commercial break saying, and I will paraphrase, "I don't know why I thought it was gonna be so hard to host this show. If the Dixie Chicks can sing with their feet in their mouths, surely I can host this show." It was the howler of the night. Everybody cracked up and she got a standing ovation that lasted at least 20 seconds. I don't think that the country elite think much of the Chicks thoughts, positions, or political stances either.

It just goes back to what I've said many times. I pay entertainers to entertain me.........I don't give a rip what they think about any politician or political party or how they voted. Why would any resonable thinking person base anything they believe in on the rants of an entertainer?

Just sing the songs, tell the jokes, act the roles, play your sport, etc., and shut up.

[Owned05]

What's the main country station in Austin? KVET?

I don't think you could force them to play the Dixie Chicks.

[RocklandDragon]

Austin loves Dixie Chicks....well, I guess somebody HAS to.

:rolleyes:

[stevefoxsc]

Yes ausitn is so liberal for playing a band that made remarks about bush. How popular is he again?


But really dont forget http://c.myspace.com/Groups/00004/81/03/4143018_l.jpg

[CKE]

Did any of you happen to see the Acadeny of Country Music Awards on tuesday night? During the last 30 minutes or so, the host of the show, my girl, Reba McEntire, came back from a commercial break saying, and I will paraphrase, "I don't know why I thought it was gonna be so hard to host this show. If the Dixie Chicks can sing with their feet in their mouths, surely I can host this show." It was the howler of the night. Everybody cracked up and she got a standing ovation that lasted at least 20 seconds. I don't think that the country elite think much of the Chicks thoughts, positions, or political stances either.

It just goes back to what I've said many times. I pay entertainers to entertain me.........I don't give a rip what they think about any politician or political party or how they voted. Why would any resonable thinking person base anything they believe in on the rants of an entertainer?

Just sing the songs, tell the jokes, act the roles, play your sport, etc., and shut up.
The dixie chicks suck anyway i could care less how they are doing and what they think i agree with go owls i pay to hear entertainers entertain and i dont give a flip what they think about what goes on in the world. but i would not pay to hear these chicks

[jtk1519]

I find it somewhat entertaining that the Dixie Chicks make a stupid remark and people (especially Texans) freak out and automatically defines everyone who listens to/plays them as "liberals". However, Green Day releases an entire album that is blatantly and profusely anti-Bush, but their album is not only one of the best selling albums in the nation, but several of their songs (including American Idiot that is atrociously anti-Bush) are not only the most requested and played songs in America, but in Dallas, Houston, Lubbock, etc. as well. I guess since Green Day refers to the President as the "resident gas-bag" and his agenda as "redneck" that must mean Dallas, Houston, Austin, El Paso, Lubbock and every other city in America must agree with them. After all, their singles were the most played and nobody called the radio stations to shut them down.

I can only hope the initial post in this thread is a joke because otherwise this has to be one of the stupidest threads ever. Look, I don't like Willie Nelson's political views, but I'll be damned if his views or the views of others are going to keep me from sitting back and enjoying some Blue Eyes Crying in the Rain from time to time. If you don't like that, go to France with the rest of the close-minded panty wastes.

[ktCarl]

I find it somewhat entertaining that the Dixie Chicks make a stupid remark and people (especially Texans) freak out and automatically defines everyone who listens to/plays them as "liberals". However, Green Day releases an entire album that is blatantly and profusely anti-Bush, but their album is not only one of the best selling albums in the nation, but several of their songs (including American Idiot that is atrociously anti-Bush) are not only the most requested and played songs in America, but in Dallas, Houston, Lubbock, etc. as well. I guess since Green Day refers to the President as the "resident gas-bag" and his agenda as "redneck" that must mean Dallas, Houston, Austin, El Paso, Lubbock and every other city in America must agree with them. After all, their singles were the most played and nobody called the radio stations to shut them down.

I can only hope the initial post in this thread is a joke because otherwise this has to be one of the stupidest threads ever. Look, I don't like Willie Nelson's political views, but I'll be damned if his views or the views of others are going to keep me from sitting back and enjoying some Blue Eyes Crying in the Rain from time to time. If you don't like that, go to France with the rest of the close-minded panty wastes.

Don't listen to entertainers unless they are entertaining. Most of them have lame minds anyway. Their product is what sells, not their personal views.

[ktfiend]

What Carl is trying to say is that we don't have to listen to him.... :) :) :)

Dixie Chicks = GAG (way before any political remarks) I think the first song I heard them play was Dear Earl, and that has got to be the stupidist song in the history of music!

[ktfiend]

The reason that this was all such a big deal is that there are tons of people out there, all across the US, that don't have the resources or intelligence to form their own opinions about political matters so they listen to the first one that they hear. The ones with the most visibility are the ones that are heard -- ie music, tv, and movie stars.

[drgnbkr]

Yes ausitn is so liberal for playing a band that made remarks about bush. How popular is he again?


But really dont forget http://c.myspace.com/Groups/00004/81/03/4143018_l.jpg

Nice steve...remember tax cuts? No attacks since 9-11, or did you forget? C'mon buddy...at least the pres got his MBA from Harvard....But hey, like the dipsey chicks, you get to say whatever you want..even if it makes you look bad...

[KT2000]

We live in a society that loves to throw out labels that's for sure, JTK.

I don't care for country music at all, but think that was a really dumb comment for the singer to make just from a business point of view. You obviously have to be smarter about what you say and realize how many people you'll piss off by calling out the President.

In the words of the legendary MJ:

"Republicans buy sneakers too."

[drgnbkr]

We live in a society that loves to throw out labels that's for sure, JTK.

I don't care for country music at all, but think that was a really dumb comment for the singer to make just from a business point of view. You obviously have to be smarter about what you say and realize how many people you'll piss off by calling out the President.

In the words of the legendary MJ:

"Republicans buy sneakers too."

Yeah, people quickly forget how many votes the pres got vs. Kerry....but the media is a powerful thing...pound something long enough and people actually start to believe it..

[pack0808]

Yeah, people quickly forget how many votes the pres got vs. Kerry....but the media is a powerful thing...pound something long enough and people actually start to believe it..


Amen, and they are good at it. That is an old strategy that they have used over and over over again. Say it so much the public starts to believe it is true.

[Miss Kitty]

I find it somewhat entertaining that the Dixie Chicks make a stupid remark and people (especially Texans) freak out and automatically defines everyone who listens to/plays them as "liberals". However, Green Day releases an entire album that is blatantly and profusely anti-Bush, but their album is not only one of the best selling albums in the nation, but several of their songs (including American Idiot that is atrociously anti-Bush) are not only the most requested and played songs in America, but in Dallas, Houston, Lubbock, etc. as well. I guess since Green Day refers to the President as the "resident gas-bag" and his agenda as "redneck" that must mean Dallas, Houston, Austin, El Paso, Lubbock and every other city in America must agree with them. After all, their singles were the most played and nobody called the radio stations to shut them down.

I can only hope the initial post in this thread is a joke because otherwise this has to be one of the stupidest threads ever. Look, I don't like Willie Nelson's political views, but I'll be damned if his views or the views of others are going to keep me from sitting back and enjoying some Blue Eyes Crying in the Rain from time to time. If you don't like that, go to France with the rest of the close-minded panty wastes.


I will address your Green Day comment. First of all, they are not from Texas. And are not trying to speak for our great state. Secondly, if you listen to the music you will see that in the recent past, the patriotic type songs have been in the C&W Sector, not the rock. So to have a country singer to come out and call out the president was shocking and just plain stupid. As far as Green Day is concerned, not everyone supports them either. At least not in my household. They are one of my daughter's favorite bands but I will not allow her to buy their music or posters, etc.

[drgnbkr]

I find it somewhat entertaining that the Dixie Chicks make a stupid remark and people (especially Texans) freak out and automatically defines everyone who listens to/plays them as "liberals". However, Green Day releases an entire album that is blatantly and profusely anti-Bush, but their album is not only one of the best selling albums in the nation, but several of their songs (including American Idiot that is atrociously anti-Bush) are not only the most requested and played songs in America, but in Dallas, Houston, Lubbock, etc. as well. I guess since Green Day refers to the President as the "resident gas-bag" and his agenda as "redneck" that must mean Dallas, Houston, Austin, El Paso, Lubbock and every other city in America must agree with them. After all, their singles were the most played and nobody called the radio stations to shut them down.

I can only hope the initial post in this thread is a joke because otherwise this has to be one of the stupidest threads ever. Look, I don't like Willie Nelson's political views, but I'll be damned if his views or the views of others are going to keep me from sitting back and enjoying some Blue Eyes Crying in the Rain from time to time. If you don't like that, go to France with the rest of the close-minded panty wastes.

I would'nt know that Green Day is anti-American...they are so pathetically bad that I cange the channel as soon as I hear them.... I mean, how bubble gum can you get?

[Miss Kitty]

I would'nt know that Green Day is anti-American...they are so pathetically bad that I cange the channel as soon as I hear them.... I mean, how bubble gum can you get?


ROFL :D :D

[pack0808]

I will address your Green Day comment. First of all, they are not from Texas. And are not trying to speak for our great state. Secondly, if you listen to the music you will see that in the recent past, the patriotic type songs have been in the C&W Sector, not the rock. So to have a country singer to come out and call out the president was shocking and just plain stupid. As far as Green Day is concerned, not everyone supports them either. At least not in my household. They are one of my daughter's favorite bands but I will not allow her to buy their music or posters, etc.


Yeah it was a very dumb statement on their (dixie chicks) part. The industry that they are in (country music) have a fan make up of about 95 percent conservative republicans. I mean use some common sense. Of course there was going to be a much bigger backlash then if it was in rock n roll where that type of thing is the norm and accepted. Green Day is not even an American band.

[stevefoxsc]

Nice steve...remember tax cuts? No attacks since 9-11, or did you forget? C'mon buddy...at least the pres got his MBA from Harvard....But hey, like the dipsey chicks, you get to say whatever you want..even if it makes you look bad...

Yes I remeber that, I also remeber a guy who still can't say nuclear correct. A guy whose ratings have been droping at an all time low, sure he got his MBA from harvard. He also got introduced to cocaine in his young college years...

No attacks since 9-11 huh? Didn't we have a guy up in virgina going on a sniper rampage on about 14 people 10 dead 4 injured? :confused: it started oct 2, is isn't it sept then oct or did it just change to oct then sept some time in the last 4 years?

[Drake]

What gets me is the arrogance of these celebrities... They become successful singing or making movies or on the American Idol panel and then all of a sudden they think they're views should be held in higher esteem than everyone elses... Its sort of like the FANS of the better football programs... A little success and all of a sudden they are the EXPERTS and start believing they have the only valid opinion on how the game should be played and "what it takes to be a champion..." :D

[Drake]

I voted for Bush twice and if he were able to run again in 2008 and either John Kerry or Al Gore were his opponent I'd vote for him again. I'll vote straight Republican in 2006 and 2008 because I believe while not wrong on every important issue, the Democrats have allowed their patriotic conscience and party to be hijacked by those that given a choice between what is best for the United States or what’s best for their own political agenda, would take the more selfish circumstance.

That said, I have been disappointed in GWBush for a few reasons. First, I think he is a man that led us to believe he was principled in his positions yet he has been nothing but political in his handling of the immigration issue. Secondly, since our very best young men and women will die, I believe a President sending the United States preemptively into war should do EVERYTHING possible to make sure there is no other viable alternative before he does. It’s very difficult to believe that this was the case concerning Iraq, especially since the justifications for the war have changed so many times since we invaded.

[Dawg Fan]

Yes I remeber that, I also remeber a guy who still can't say nuclear correct. A guy whose ratings have been droping at an all time low, sure he got his MBA from harvard. He also got introduced to cocaine in his young college years...

No attacks since 9-11 huh? Didn't we have a guy up in virgina going on a sniper rampage on about 14 people 10 dead 4 injured? :confused: it started oct 2, is isn't it sept then oct or did it just change to oct then sept some time in the last 4 years?


Wow that was weak at best but then again people that hate everything about Bush will say anything or blame him for anything.:rolleyes: Jimmy Carter could never say nuclear and he was a nuclear physicist:rolleyes: so that is just a petty bs argument. Standard liberal mantra. I am not calling you a liberal just pointing out their spin. How about the economy? Seems the Dems were all hot and bothered about that and its booming under his leadership but you won't hear them bring that up. How about jobs. Same story. I think its funny about the so called approval polls because I have never been called by a pollster nor has ANYONE I have ever talked to been called. Bashing Bush is a waste of time because he can't be re-elected anyway.

[drgnbkr]

Yes I remeber that, I also remeber a guy who still can't say nuclear correct. A guy whose ratings have been droping at an all time low, sure he got his MBA from harvard. He also got introduced to cocaine in his young college years...

No attacks since 9-11 huh? Didn't we have a guy up in virgina going on a sniper rampage on about 14 people 10 dead 4 injured? :confused: it started oct 2, is isn't it sept then oct or did it just change to oct then sept some time in the last 4 years?

Huh? I'll take "nucular" anyday over whatever you just said.....John Lee Malvo and his little buddy were sick americans and the justice system will either kill them, which they probably deserve, or send them to a place where they get to have anal love with big skinheads for the rest of their lives....

[slorch]

They are not receiving much airplay in the San Francisco Bay area. This is proof that the Bay area is a bastion of Bush loving, fundamentalist conservatives. :rolleyes:
touche

I'm sorry the hicks in the bay don't want any Chicks( pun intended)

[DrEdward]

The chicks wrote and played some very good music; I. for one, have no problem with their older stuff; in fact, I very much enjoy it. Their more recent efforts simply leave me going "I wonder how the Rangers are doing?" and changing the station. But the fact that the chicks just don't seem to get is that they pissed a bunch of folks off who also have the right to choose not to listen to them. It may be too late, but just let it goo chicks and go back to your roots. The fact that the chicks are still very popular in Austin is certainly no surprise, as the good folks there are clearly living in a very liberal city in an otherwise most conservative state. No problem; the buttons on the radionstill work.

[jtk1519]

I will address your Green Day comment. First of all, they are not from Texas. And are not trying to speak for our great state. Secondly, if you listen to the music you will see that in the recent past, the patriotic type songs have been in the C&W Sector, not the rock. So to have a country singer to come out and call out the president was shocking and just plain stupid. As far as Green Day is concerned, not everyone supports them either. At least not in my household. They are one of my daughter's favorite bands but I will not allow her to buy their music or posters, etc.

I think the fact that the Chicks are from Texas gives them even more of a right to voice their opinions on a President from Texas. Hell, to be perfectly honest, I voted for Bush twice, but there has been more than one occasion when I have been pretty embarrassed to know that the President and I share the same state (two words: illegal immigration). The only difference is that people don't buy my albums and Barbra Walters doesn't call me up wanting to do an interview.

It is important to remember that the Dixie Chicks have every right in the word to say what they want and we have no right at all to demand their silence. As Theodore Roosevelt once said...

To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.

The only thing that ever bothered me about the comments made by the head chicken was not the comments themselves, but the fact that they were made in London in front of a largely anti-Bush/anti-war crowd. That was cowardly. If you want to make a statement like that, throw a concert at Ft. Hood and then make that comment. That is bravery... that is true patriotism. The Chicks weren't trying to make some kind of profound political statement... they were selfishly pandering to the lowest common denominator.

FWIW, I'm not much of a country music fan, but I detest the Chicks music and always have. After they butchered a classic in Stevie Nicks' Landslide, I quit giving them any more chances. Suck is suck and a leopard does not change it's spots.

[Miss Kitty]

The only thing that ever bothered me about the comments made by the head chicken was not the comments themselves, but the fact that they were made in London in front of a largely anti-Bush/anti-war crowd. That was cowardly. If you want to make a statement like that, throw a concert at Ft. Hood and then make that comment. That is bravery... that is true patriotism. The Chicks weren't trying to make some kind of profound political statement... they were selfishly pandering to the lowest common denominator.



This was a HUGE part of it for me too.

[yankee]

I think the fact that the Chicks are from Texas gives them even more of a right to voice their opinions on a President from Texas. Hell, to be perfectly honest, I voted for Bush twice, but there has been more than one occasion when I have been pretty embarrassed to know that the President and I share the same state (two words: illegal immigration). The only difference is that people don't buy my albums and Barbra Walters doesn't call me up wanting to do an interview.

It is important to remember that the Dixie Chicks have every right in the word to say what they want and we have no right at all to demand their silence. As Theodore Roosevelt once said...



The only thing that ever bothered me about the comments made by the head chicken was not the comments themselves, but the fact that they were made in London in front of a largely anti-Bush/anti-war crowd. That was cowardly. If you want to make a statement like that, throw a concert at Ft. Hood and then make that comment. That is bravery... that is true patriotism. The Chicks weren't trying to make some kind of profound political statement... they were selfishly pandering to the lowest common denominator.

FWIW, I'm not much of a country music fan, but I detest the Chicks music and always have. After they butchered a classic in Stevie Nicks' Landslide, I quit giving them any more chances. Suck is suck and a leopard does not change it's spots.
of course its ok for them to speak out, its what makes this country so great. but when they start crying on how their fans are giving them crap back and speaking THEIR minds, well c'mon.

[RedRage00]

I'm not a big fan of country music so I could care less lol

I don't even know what they said LOL

[pack0808]

quote by jtk

"It is important to remember that the Dixie Chicks have every right in the word to say what they want and we have no right at all to demand their silence. As Theodore Roosevelt once said..."



It is also our right not to buy their albums anymore and it is also the country radio stations right not to play them anymore. I do not listen to country music so i do not apply. They can say what they want it is a free country, but there might be consequences for their actions or words. You just do not spit on the President of the United States during a time of war on foreign soil and expect to get away with it. That used to be called treason and 50 years ago, and they would probably have been arrested for it. They got what they deserved.



On the infamous stevefox making fun of the President of the United States intelligence who has 2 degrees from 2 of the most prestigious colleges in America............... Priceless

[RedRage00]

On the infamous stevefox making fun of the President of the United States who has 2 degrees from 2 of the most prestigious colleges in America............... Priceless

That doesn't mean anything. Stupid people come from prestigious colleges. And what makes you think he didn't get in b/c he is a "Bush." Think about it.....

[pack0808]

That doesn't mean anything. Stupid people come from prestigious colleges. And what makes you think he didn't get in b/c he is a "Bush." Think about it.....


Yeah right! Name some stupid people that have "graduated" from Harvard and Yale?? You and I might not agree with many of their opinions or they might be a little strange, but i am sure they are far from stupid when it comes to intelligence. He did not become the president of the United States by being stupid. That is just a bs stereotype used by the media and the left. He is just a dumb hillbilly redneck from Texas yada yada yada.

[RedRage00]

Yeah right! Name some stupid people that have "graduated" from Harvard and Yale?? You and I might not agree with many of their opinions or they might be a little strange, but i am sure they are far from stupid when it comes to intelligence. He did not become the president of the United States by being stupid. That is just a bs stereotype used by the media and the left. He is just a dumb hillbilly redneck from Texas yada yada yada.

Yeah right....there are a lot of people that pay their way through those schools. There are also people that are accepted into those types of school just b/c of their last name. "Daddy made a call to get me in...."

Democrat or Republican....left or right...they are all screwed up. You just have to hope you pick the one that does the least damage.

[pack0808]

Yeah right....there are a lot of people that pay their way through those schools. There are also people that are accepted into those types of school just b/c of their last name. "Daddy made a call to get me in...."

Democrat or Republican....left or right...they are all screwed up. You just have to hope you pick the one that does the least damage.



Oh come on how on earth do you know that? That is just what jealous people say about a successful person or family that has made it after years of hard work and determination. A prestigious name might get you accepted to those schools but i am sure they do not do the work for them once they get there. Bush is far far far from dumb. If you think a name was the reason he has been the President of the US for last 2 terms then you are calling all the millions upon millions of Americans that voted for him ignorant.

[drgnbkr]

That doesn't mean anything. Stupid people come from prestigious colleges. And what makes you think he didn't get in b/c he is a "Bush." Think about it.....

You got that right! Gore flunked out of Divinity School and Kerry was a D student at Yale.....Both of them are the dimmest of bulbs...

[RedRage00]

Oh come on how on earth do you know that? That is just what jealous people say about a successful person or family that has made it after years of hard work and determination. A prestigious name might get you accepted to those schools but i am sure they do not do the work for them once they get there. Bush is far far far from dumb. If you think a name was the reason he has been the President of the US for last 2 terms then you are calling all the millions upon millions of Americans that voted for him ignorant.

Didn't someone from the Wal Mart family pay someone to do her work at USC?

It's possible

And what makes you think I didn't vote for Bush....I'm neither hardcore demo or repub....I look at both sides before I cast my vote.

Most of you will vote Republican even if the guy is a dumb @$$...and that goes for demo's too. They have yall all fooled.

[RedRage00]

You got that right! Gore flunked out of Divinity School and Kerry was a D student at Yale.....Both of them are the dimmest of bulbs...

That sure hasn't stopped them from being successful.

[RedRage00]

Some of you guys are so hardcore republican that Bush could fry babies on the BBQ pit and you would still worship him.

RR

[drgnbkr]

That sure hasn't stopped them from being successful.

I have'nt quite figured out at what Gore is successful, but Kerry is clearly a success at marrying wealthy women....

[drgnbkr]

Some of you guys are so hardcore republican that Bush could fry babies on the BBQ pit and you would still worship him.

RR

All you have to do is look logically at the current crop of Democrats to lean toward the Conservative side of things.....Harry Reid? Ted Kenedy? Nancy Pelosi? John Kerry? Dick Durbin? Should I continue?

[jtk1519]

Al Gore is a very bright man and somebody I enjoy reading. It used to be that you couldn't stand to watch him because he was as boring as drying paint, but the further he removes himself from political office and the more he devotes himself to a worthwhile cause (in his case, the environment) the more personable and enjoyable he becomes to watch. I caught one of his speeches on C-Span a while back and he is so dramatically different from the stiff that claimed to invent the internet. I still don't agree with his stance on a lot of political issues, but I admire the fact that he is using his status in life to pursue an issue that is in desperate need of pursuing.

As for John Kerry, he too is a very bright man (though truth be told, that could be said of most politicians). You could define him as a success because of how long he has been an elected official, but I think you must take into account who has been electing him. After all, Massachusetts is the same state that has sent Ted "I'll have another round" Kennedy to Washington since 1962. I do have to wonder were Kerry would be had he not married his sugar mama.

The democratic politician that intrigues me the most is Illinois senator Barak Obama. His address to the DNC in ’04 was amazing. There is no way Kerry could have one that election. He was upstaged by the young guy giving the keynote address. He also went toe to toe with Alan Keys in a debate which I didn’t think was possible seeing how Keys is one of the most intelligent, articulate and impressive speakers in modern politics. When Obama runs for President (and mark my words, he will run in or before 2016), the GOP better have Jesus himself lined up to run against him.

[ktCarl]

Al Gore is a very bright man and somebody I enjoy reading. It used to be that you couldn't stand to watch him because he was as boring as drying paint, but the further he removes himself from political office and the more he devotes himself to a worthwhile cause (in his case, the environment) the more personable and enjoyable he becomes to watch. I caught one of his speeches on C-Span a while back and he is so dramatically different from the stiff that claimed to invent the internet. I still don't agree with his stance on a lot of political issues, but I admire the fact that he is using his status in life to pursue an issue that is in desperate need of pursuing.

As for John Kerry, he too is a very bright man (though truth be told, that could be said of most politicians). You could define him as a success because of how long he has been an elected official, but I think you must take into account who has been electing him. After all, Massachusetts is the same state that has sent Ted "I'll have another round" Kennedy to Washington since 1962. I do have to wonder were Kerry would be had he not married his sugar mama.

The democratic politician that intrigues me the most is Illinois senator Barak Obama. His address to the DNC in ’04 was amazing. There is no way Kerry could have one that election. He was upstaged by the young guy giving the keynote address. He also went toe to toe with Alan Keys in a debate which I didn’t think was possible seeing how Keys is one of the most intelligent, articulate and impressive speakers in modern politics. When Obama runs for President (and mark my words, he will run in or before 2016), the GOP better have Jesus himself lined up to run against him.

OH, C'MON!!! Listening to Gore is like listening to Lurch on the old TV sitcom Addams Family! Stupidity bleeds from his face. But, let's not get too caught up in defending brain matter of politicians. What was this thread about anyway?!

[RedRage00]

OH, C'MON!!! Listening to Gore is like listening to Lurch on the old TV sitcom Addams Family! Stupidity bleeds from his face. But, let's not get too caught up in defending brain matter of politicians. What was this thread about anyway?!

Dixie chicks.....what did they say anyway???? Can someone post it??? I don't care enough about country music to pay attention to them lol

RR

[dragonsdaddy]

jtk, i agree with the assessment of obama and keys. those 2, keys in particular, would be my first choice in any future election.

[Miss Kitty]

While in London, on tour she said,
"Just so you know, we're ashamed the President of the United States is from Texas."

[Panther63]

Al Gore is a very bright man and somebody I enjoy reading. It used to be that you couldn't stand to watch him because he was as boring as drying paint, but the further he removes himself from political office and the more he devotes himself to a worthwhile cause (in his case, the environment) the more personable and enjoyable he becomes to watch. I caught one of his speeches on C-Span a while back and he is so dramatically different from the stiff that claimed to invent the internet. I still don't agree with his stance on a lot of political issues, but I admire the fact that he is using his status in life to pursue an issue that is in desperate need of pursuing.

As for John Kerry, he too is a very bright man (though truth be told, that could be said of most politicians). You could define him as a success because of how long he has been an elected official, but I think you must take into account who has been electing him. After all, Massachusetts is the same state that has sent Ted "I'll have another round" Kennedy to Washington since 1962. I do have to wonder were Kerry would be had he not married his sugar mama.

The democratic politician that intrigues me the most is Illinois senator Barak Obama. His address to the DNC in ’04 was amazing. There is no way Kerry could have one that election. He was upstaged by the young guy giving the keynote address. He also went toe to toe with Alan Keys in a debate which I didn’t think was possible seeing how Keys is one of the most intelligent, articulate and impressive speakers in modern politics. When Obama runs for President (and mark my words, he will run in or before 2016), the GOP better have Jesus himself lined up to run against him.

President Barak Hussein Obama....I don't know jtk Were changing,but the USA might not be ready in 10 yrs.

[yankee]

I have'nt quite figured out at what Gore is successful, but Kerry is clearly a success at marrying wealthy women....
and making ketchup! :p

[stevefoxsc]

http://cacadoigt.hautetfort.com/images/medium_bush_connecticut_welcome.jpg

[Dawg Fan]

another bs photoshop picture:rolleyes:

[drgnbkr]

http://cacadoigt.hautetfort.com/images/medium_bush_connecticut_welcome.jpg

Atta boy Stevie! Never let reality or maybe the truth get in the way of a good Bush hatin......you are so programed its amazing...I'm surprised you can get the New York Times in Wacko...

[stevefoxsc]

Atta boy Stevie! Never let reality or maybe the truth get in the way of a good Bush hatin......you are so programed its amazing...I'm surprised you can get the New York Times in Wacko...


Funny its one thing to be hated by a few people, but more than half your country?

The fact of the matter is I dislike bush cause im opposed to majority of his views.
But i will say this, he is a pure genius i love how he suckerd loads of people with lies, he reminds me of a modern day hitler.

[GoOwls]

Funny its one thing to be hated by a few people, but more than half your country?

The fact of the matter is I dislike bush cause im opposed to majority of his views.
But i will say this, he is a pure genius i love how he suckerd loads of people with lies, he reminds me of a modern day hitler.

OK, genius, name me a president in the modern era of polling who wasn't disapproved of by half of the voters at some point in their presidency. Don't bother researching because the answer is none of them. See, it's like this, president have to make decisions, decisions that will please some and anger others. It's the job he is hired to do. Disapproval goes with the job, no matter how things really are.

Hitler? BWAHAHAHAHA!!! Please..........

[jtk1519]

...he reminds me of a modern day hitler.

Without question the most despicable thing I have ever read on this board. The truly bad thing is not your disgusting cheap shot at a sitting president, but rather the fact that you have cheapened the torture and murder of millions of Jews by making their murderer the butt of your sick joke. The Dixie Chicks are Pat F'n Tillman compared to you.

[CKE]

Without question the most despicable thing I have ever read on this board. The truly bad thing is not your disgusting cheap shot at a sitting president, but rather the fact that you have cheapened the torture and murder of millions of Jews by making their murderer the butt of your sick joke. The Dixie Chicks are Pat F'n Tillman compared to you.

damn jtk how do you really feel about him

[jtk1519]

damn jtk how do you really feel about him

I would, but then I would get banned quicker than lonnylikes.../wide-e-wide.

[CKE]

I would, but then I would get banned quicker than lonnylikes.../wide-e-wide.


lol idk thats going to be pretty quick

[slorch]

]Funny its one thing to be hated by a few people, but more than half your country?[/B]
The fact of the matter is I dislike bush cause im opposed to majority of his views.
But i will say this, he is a pure genius i love how he suckerd loads of people with lies, he reminds me of a modern day hitler.


just a reminder, Bush's predessessor(sp) never received a majority of votes, greater than 50%, while in office. Don't be puttin this crap up as if it's unique to Bush.

[yankee]

Funny its one thing to be hated by a few people, but more than half your country?

The fact of the matter is I dislike bush cause im opposed to majority of his views.
But i will say this, he is a pure genius i love how he suckerd loads of people with lies, he reminds me of a modern day hitler.
how the hell is he anything like hitler you moron? please, tell me that. i would like to hear your explanation.

[stevefoxsc]

Without question the most despicable thing I have ever read on this board. The truly bad thing is not your disgusting cheap shot at a sitting president, but rather the fact that you have cheapened the torture and murder of millions of Jews by making their murderer the butt of your sick joke. The Dixie Chicks are Pat F'n Tillman compared to you.



Dont even make this about them, there was more to WW2 than killing jews...
Plus if you checked my comparisson you know that i said "suckerd" not "tortured".
Suckerd as in tricked people ya know, unless the meaning of suckerd changed to tortuous over night?

Sick joke huh?

But if we wana get on the subject lets...
Did you know texas leads the nation in number of people excuted since bushy boy took over in 1994 as governor, okay now I understand what does this have to do with anything. There majority of people on deathrow are given lethal injection, funny thing about lethal injection. It was invented during the holocaust by one of hitlers own, and guess who put texas in the lead for most deaths by an old school nazi way of execution.

DING DING THATS RIGHT THIS MAN RIGHT HERE

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/choice2000/art/bushhome.jpg
Yes thats right i compared him to hitler, seeing that he favors an old school nazi form of execution, and one that also failed the chriteria when it came to putting down animals,did that answer your question yankeedoodle? You have options of other means of execution but you choose one that was of heavy use during ww2 :/ heres a good quote from him in a article from 2000"I'm confident," he said last February, "that every person that has been put to death in Texas under my watch has been guilty of the crime charged, and has had full access to the courts."

Heres another fun fact about the defense...

One court dismissed a complaint about a lawyer who slept through a trial with the comment that courts are not "obligated to either constantly monitor trial counsel's wakefulness or endeavor to wake counsel should he fall asleep."

That guy who was executed was under his watch :/ I think i'll call it a day have a goodin.

[yankee]

my fellow poster, YOU CANNOT COMPARE THE EXECUTION OF A COUPLE HUNDRED HORRIBLE CRIMINALS TO THE DEATHS OF 6 MILLION INNOCENT JEWS, HOMOSEXUALS, GIPSIES, CRIPPLES,ETC.

[slorch]

Dont even make this about them, there was more to WW2 than killing jews...
Plus if you checked my comparisson you know that i said "suckerd" not "tortured".
Suckerd as in tricked people ya know, unless the meaning of suckerd changed to tortuous over night?

Sick joke huh?

But if we wana get on the subject lets...
Did you know texas leads the nation in number of people excuted since bushy boy took over in 1994 as governor, okay now I understand what does this have to do with anything. There majority of people on deathrow are given lethal injection, funny thing about lethal injection. It was invented during the holocaust by one of hitlers own, and guess who put texas in the lead for most deaths by an old school nazi way of execution.

DING DING THATS RIGHT THIS MAN RIGHT HERE

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/choice2000/art/bushhome.jpg
Yes thats right i compared him to hitler, seeing that he favors an old school nazi form of execution, and one that also failed the chriteria when it came to putting down animals,did that answer your question yankeedoodle? You have options of other means of execution but you choose one that was of heavy use during ww2 :/ heres a good quote from him in a article from 2000"I'm confident," he said last February, "that every person that has been put to death in Texas under my watch has been guilty of the crime charged, and has had full access to the courts."

Heres another fun fact about the defense...

One court dismissed a complaint about a lawyer who slept through a trial with the comment that courts are not "obligated to either constantly monitor trial counsel's wakefulness or endeavor to wake counsel should he fall asleep."

That guy who was executed was under his watch :/ I think i'll call it a day have a goodin.
your argument deserves no response to which it could be validated, but-
if you want to compare the execution of the lowest form of citizens in Texas who have been convicted of intentionally harming/ killing another citizen with the genocide of millions of innocent jews, then I guess one might say there are similarities.
but for the 260 million other citizens here, you my friend a disillusioned Bush hater who sees nothing but bad in what has transpired in the last 6 years. Even if it was all his fault, he'll never be the next Hitler, and you should apologize to each of us and all Jews for making that comparison. You have trivialized the Hollocaust in order to slander your president. Great job!

[jtk1519]

There majority of people on deathrow are given lethal injection, funny thing about lethal injection. It was invented during the holocaust by one of hitlers own, and guess who put texas in the lead for most deaths by an old school nazi way of execution.

You're an idiot. Lethal injection was invented as a form of execution by Dr. Mount Bleyer of New York in 1888 when he suggested that injecting prisoners with 6 grains of morphine would be a humane and cheap form of execution. This was a full year before Adolph Hitler was even born!

BTW, Texas has led the nation in executions since the Supreme Court reinstated the death penalty in 1976... long before Bush ever became governor. That's a time period that has included such democrat governors as Dolph Briscoe, Mark White and Ann Richards... a democrat who never once issued a death row pardon.

FWIW, 70% of the country supports the death penalty. I guess that means we're mostly little Nazis running around.:rolleyes:

You're a typical democrat alright. You offer no substance or legitimate ideas of your own. Instead, you make up some of the most outlandish lies imaginable knowing that there are those out there that will believe you because they are too ignorant and/or lazy to find out the truth for themselves. You contribute absolutely nothing. You seek to tear down what is above you in hopes that you can tear it down to the point where you seem better. Of course, you have offered nothing and done nothing good, but you look better because you used a barrage of lies to bring down those who are trying to do some good. That, ladies and gentlemen, is the current state of affairs in the democratic party and stevefoxsc is about as embarrassing a democrat as you will ever find.

[dragonsdaddy]

the temple idiot is the best ad ever for using the ignore function. anyone with the need to argue with a moron is welcome to him, but i'll pass tyvm.

[dragonsdaddy]

sorry, mods. it won't happen again.

[stevefoxsc]

You're an idiot. Lethal injection was invented as a form of execution by Dr. Mount Bleyer of New York in 1888 when he suggested that injecting prisoners with 6 grains of morphine would be a humane and cheap form of execution. This was a full year before Adolph Hitler was even born!

BTW, Texas has led the nation in executions since the Supreme Court reinstated the death penalty in 1976... long before Bush ever became governor. That's a time period that has included such democrat governors as Dolph Briscoe, Mark White and Ann Richards... a democrat who never once issued a death row pardon.

FWIW, 70% of the country supports the death penalty. I guess that means we're mostly little Nazis running around.

You're a typical democrat alright. You offer no substance or legitimate ideas of your own. Instead, you make up some of the most outlandish lies imaginable knowing that there are those out there that will believe you because they are too ignorant and/or lazy to find out the truth for themselves. You contribute absolutely nothing. You seek to tear down what is above you in hopes that you can tear it down to the point where you seem better. Of course, you have offered nothing and done nothing good, but you look better because you used a barrage of lies to bring down those who are trying to do some good. That, ladies and gentlemen, is the current state of affairs in the democratic party and stevefoxsc is about as embarrassing a democrat as you will ever find.


You're an idiot. Lethal injection was invented as a form of execution by Dr. Mount Bleyer of New York in 1888 when he suggested that injecting prisoners with 6 grains of morphine would be a humane and cheap form of execution. This was a full year before Adolph Hitler was even born!

Really? the originator of LJ was Frederick A. (Fred) Leuchter, Jr. Now dr mountain invented the electric chair.... Oh yea LJ was invented as a form of execution in 1888?Between the introduction of lethal injection legislation in the USA in 1977 and 30 September 1997, 267 men and one woman have been executed -- some with active medical participation.

Humane? "When it was first introduced, lethal injection was heralded as making executions increasingly humane," said Dr James Welsh, author of the report. "In practice, there have been a number of cases in which it has failed to bring about the quick, painless death of the condemned extolled by its proponents." In other cases some people didn't recieve proper amounts of Sodium Thiopental, meaning while the other drugs were kickin in they were still aware of what was going on like i said, this failed to mee the standards for putting down animals,humane you say?

BTW, Texas has led the nation in executions since the Supreme Court reinstated the death penalty in 1976... long before Bush ever became governor. That's a time period that has included such democrat governors as Dolph Briscoe, Mark White and Ann Richards... a democrat who never once issued a death row pardon.

Between 1976 (when the Supreme Court lifted its prohibition on the death penalty) and 1998 Texas executed 167 people. Next in rank was Virginia which executed 60 during the same period. Yes true you make a valid point, and maybe I was off a bit.http://www.yappi.info/1/ubb/clap.gif

FWIW, 70% of the country supports the death penalty. I guess that means we're mostly little Nazis running around.

Well from your stand point that could be said if you wanted confliction with out facts.

Really how many people support stuff that they really don't know much about? Lots infact, to some people it could be, oh he did a bad thing killem and thats it... Do I support it, yes... Do I support the current ways of it, no. Which could be the cases for many.
Btw In a survey conducted on various people, it's been shown most people know more about star wars, than issues that deal with our country:eek:

You're a typical democrat alright. You offer no substance or legitimate ideas of your own of your own. Instead, you make up some of the most outlandish lies imaginable knowing that there are those out there that will believe you because they are too ignorant and/or lazy to find out the truth for themselves
You assume I'm democrat because I'm agaisnt bush and with out me telling you where I lay in politics, there are republicans agaisn't him does that mean they were turned democrat with out there say so?
Hmmm I made up lies? Are they lies because they differ from your own views?
Just the facts please, there are no other people here im speaking for. I'm speaking for my self, now wait i know i said people dislike him but thats cause there are i said there are people that differe from his views cause there are... Since this is between me and you i'll keep it that way.

You contribute absolutely nothing. You seek to tear down what is above you in hopes that you can tear it down to the point where you seem better. Of course, you have offered nothing and done nothing good, but you look better because you used a barrage of lies to bring down those who are trying to do some good. http://forum.ebaumsworld.com/images/smilies/blahblah.gifDidn't you just reply to what i said with some partial evidence, does that also mean your aiding my none contributeness to nothing?
So I seem to tear down what is above me, im trying to tear down god? Now why would I wana do that to somthing I love? Oh you mean "Dub yah geeorge bush", you see honestly I don't really care for the guy. I just gave my thoughts and ide-- wait you just said i don't bring any ideas out guess i'll keepem put away:rolleyes:. Okay a turkey sandwich and some thoughts on X-men 3 while enjoying halifax later, I hear i have done nothing good, let's see stick to simple things away from killing and what not. Now i don't do good thing's? I volunteered in my church activities, oh no thats not good i mean only bad people do that right? I stoped my friend from committing suicide, is that bad, hmmm I guess with jtk's theory of fox is the devil I should have let her do it,just cause i've done no good. I sent a prayer for your mother when you requested does that make me bad? What ever it was id like to know what it was, I'm still debating if it was the money I donated to a starving kid in Africa the hobo I gave some money to, the elderly guy who I didn't know but still gave a ride to once. I mean I really would like to know how am I bad for those things? Cause if those qualify me for beeing bad, hell I don't wana be good.And yes Bush did do some good, iraq has freedom, but look what happend in the process and whats going on at the same time.

Ironic I'm surffin the web and get the, do you like george bush pop up :O

dragonsdaddy the temple idiot is the best ad ever for using the ignore function. anyone with the need to argue with a moron is welcome to him, but i'll pass tyvm.http://forum.ebaumsworld.com/images/smilies/dunce.gif

You know what, you aint even worth getting banned over.

[drgnbkr]

Smokinnnnnn.....!:eek: :eek: :D

[Dawg Fan]

You're an idiot. Lethal injection was invented as a form of execution by Dr. Mount Bleyer of New York in 1888 when he suggested that injecting prisoners with 6 grains of morphine would be a humane and cheap form of execution. This was a full year before Adolph Hitler was even born!

BTW, Texas has led the nation in executions since the Supreme Court reinstated the death penalty in 1976... long before Bush ever became governor. That's a time period that has included such democrat governors as Dolph Briscoe, Mark White and Ann Richards... a democrat who never once issued a death row pardon.

FWIW, 70% of the country supports the death penalty. I guess that means we're mostly little Nazis running around.:rolleyes:

You're a typical democrat alright. You offer no substance or legitimate ideas of your own. Instead, you make up some of the most outlandish lies imaginable knowing that there are those out there that will believe you because they are too ignorant and/or lazy to find out the truth for themselves. You contribute absolutely nothing. You seek to tear down what is above you in hopes that you can tear it down to the point where you seem better. Of course, you have offered nothing and done nothing good, but you look better because you used a barrage of lies to bring down those who are trying to do some good. That, ladies and gentlemen, is the current state of affairs in the democratic party and stevefoxsc is about as embarrassing a democrat as you will ever find.

idiot is too kind of a description for him. But your analysis is right on. standard liberal mantra down to the last word. pathetic

[TexasRed6x]

Yes ausitn is so liberal for playing a band that made remarks about bush. How popular is he again?


But really dont forget http://c.myspace.com/Groups/00004/81/03/4143018_l.jpg
That's a funny picture.:D

[jtk1519]

Really? the originator of LJ was Frederick A. (Fred) Leuchter, Jr. Now dr mountain invented the electric chair.... Oh yea LJ was invented as a form of execution in 1888?Between the introduction of lethal injection legislation in the USA in 1977 and 30 September 1997, 267 men and one woman have been executed -- some with active medical participation.

Humane? "When it was first introduced, lethal injection was heralded as making executions increasingly humane," said Dr James Welsh, author of the report. "In practice, there have been a number of cases in which it has failed to bring about the quick, painless death of the condemned extolled by its proponents." In other cases some people didn't recieve proper amounts of Sodium Thiopental, meaning while the other drugs were kickin in they were still aware of what was going on like i said, this failed to mee the standards for putting down animals,humane you say?

Wrong.

Lethal injection was first considered as a means of execution in 1888 when New York's J. Mount Bleyer, M.D., put it forward in an article in the Medico-Legal Journal suggesting that it would be more humane, cheaper and rob the prisoner of the hero status that often is attached to hangings. He suggested the intravenous injection of 6 grains of Morphine. The idea did not catch on and New York introduced the electric chair instead.

http://www.richard.clark32.btinternet.co.uk/injection.html

Again, this was a full year before Hitler was even born. So trying to compare Bush to Hitler because Bush just so happened to be governor during a 29 year time span when lethal injection was being used is like trying to compare modern day soldiers to Al Capone because they both use guns. It's so far beyond ridiculous that it's mere suggestion is the sign of a severely unstable mind on the part the one suggesting it.

As for the electric chair, it was actually invented by Thomas Edison, a proponent of direct current (DC), who cunningly unleashed a smear campaign against Westinghouse who was a proponent of alternating current (AC) which was in direct competition with Edison's DC. In his smear campaign, Edison suggested that AC was far too dangerous for commercial use and instead suggested that the only thing AC was good for was death by electrocution. He famously demonstrated this by electrocuting numerous animals. The state of New York turned down Dr. Bleyer's suggestion of death by lethal injection in 1889 in favor of Edison's electric chair.

http://ask.yahoo.com/20021206.html

[pack0808]

jtk i lost a little respect for you when you said your thing about Gore (the same man that said he invented the net) but then i got that respect right back after you put mr stevefox in his place. ( even though that is not hard to do ;) ) Who ever can compare the execution of the worst scum on earth to perfectly innocent men, women, and children need help?? The guy is not worth it if he is that ignorant.


And Redrage you have me wrong. The minute the republicans believe it is ok to kill innocent babies, and believe it is ok for homosexuals to marry, and believe it is ok to clone humans for scientific purposes i will not be a republican anymore. If the democrats believe the opposite of those views then i would be a democrat. I actually listen to the views of the party instead of just voting a party because my family voted for them. I also put my moral views over my pocket book issues. You are a typical negative american that i hear over and over. Politicians are all bad and all crooks so that is your excuse for not participating in a freedom some countries would absolutely kill for. Not so!! You can do the same with any other profession out there. Example, oh a teacher molested a student so that means that all teachers are bad and all teachers are perverted crooks. Blah Blah Blah

[stevefoxsc]

Wrong.



http://www.richard.clark32.btinternet.co.uk/injection.html

Again, this was a full year before Hitler was even born. So trying to compare Bush to Hitler because Bush just so happened to be governor during a 29 year time span when lethal injection was being used is like trying to compare modern day soldiers to Al Capone because they both use guns. It's so far beyond ridiculous that it's mere suggestion is the sign of a severely unstable mind on the part the one suggesting it.

As for the electric chair, it was actually invented by Thomas Edison, a proponent of direct current (DC), who cunningly unleashed a smear campaign against Westinghouse who was a proponent of alternating current (AC) which was in direct competition with Edison's DC. In his smear campaign, Edison suggested that AC was far too dangerous for commercial use and instead suggested that the only thing AC was good for was death by electrocution. He famously demonstrated this by electrocuting numerous animals. The state of New York turned down Dr. Bleyer's suggestion of death by lethal injection in 1889 in favor of Edison's electric chair.

http://ask.yahoo.com/20021206.html


Here we go again... It seems if fact's a present them selfs you run into denial like most bush supporters.
I got off the comparison, and use just the fact's...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_A._Leuchter

as for your electric chair, edison did invent it, but merly only took others ideas and studies one elses idea and improved it, after testing it on numerous animals that ran on a metal plate.

Sigh when pack speaks my iq drops by the secound again i'll ignore another blunt comment made.

[jtk1519]

Here we go again... It seems if fact's a present them selfs you run into denial like most bush supporters.
I got off the comparison, and use just the fact's...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_A._Leuchter

as for your electric chair, edison did invent it, but merly only took others ideas and studies one elses idea and improved it, after testing it on numerous animals that ran on a metal plate.

Sigh when pack speaks my iq drops by the secound again i'll ignore another blunt comment made.

Please explain to me how Mr. Leuchter could possibly be "the originator" of lethal injection (as you put it), when Fred Leuchter was born in 1943 yet the initial suggestion of lethal injection as a form of execution was first published in 1888. The fundamental laws of physics say that it is not possible for somebody to invent something 55 years before they are born.

The USA was the first nation to experiment with lethal injection for capital crimes, using it first on December 7, 1982. The concept had been proposed in 1888 by J. Mount Bleyer in New York, but was not approved.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lethal_injection
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1029-22.htm
http://www.answers.com/topic/lethal-injection
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Lethal_injection
http://www.spot-on.com/archives/brauchli/2005/10/a_grim_primer.html

As for the notion that I am a Bush supporter... I can't completely say that right now, but I'm not a Bush detractor either. I personally feel that Bush's policy of crazy spending, inflated government and porous borders is better left to the democrats left of center that so often advance such policies. The only reason I got so involved in this thread is because I find it grossly irresponsible to compare somebody to the worst mass-murder in history simply because you don't agree with his political beliefs. That is the kind of juvenile shock-talk that is best left for nuts like George Soros and Howard Dean… not for reasonable, intelligent adults.

[slorch]

Here we go again... It seems if fact's a present them selfs you run into denial like most bush supporters.
I got off the comparison, and use just the fact's...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_A._Leuchter

as for your electric chair, edison did invent it, but merly only took others ideas and studies one elses idea and improved it, after testing it on numerous animals that ran on a metal plate.

Sigh when pack speaks my iq drops by the secound again i'll ignore another blunt comment made.
evidently so does your spellcheck.
And the only reason "blunt comments" are made is because sharp ones would have the edges broken off when they hit your rock skull.

[drgnbkr]

It is a source of pride that our great state executes child killers and the like...better that than sending them to some California country club prison to watch dish network..makes you glad your a Texan! I hope Algore "Perots" saint Hillary in 08..splitting the vote...what a disaster for all of us if that witch gets her hands on the office... lets see..what else will get stevie goin?.....:D

[Miss Kitty]

jtk i lost a little respect for you when you said your thing about Gore (the same man that said he invented the net) but then i got that respect right back after you put mr stevefox in his place. ( even though that is not hard to do ;) ) Who ever can compare the execution of the worst scum on earth to perfectly innocent men, women, and children need help?? The guy is not worth it if he is that ignorant.


And Redrage you have me wrong. The minute the republicans believe it is ok to kill innocent babies, and believe it is ok for homosexuals to marry, and believe it is ok to clone humans for scientific purposes i will not be a republican anymore. If the democrats believe the opposite of those views then i would be a democrat. I actually listen to the views of the party instead of just voting a party because my family voted for them. I also put my moral views over my pocket book issues. You are a typical negative american that i hear over and over. Politicians are all bad and all crooks so that is your excuse for not participating in a freedom some countries would absolutely kill for. Not so!! You can do the same with any other profession out there. Example, oh a teacher molested a student so that means that all teachers are bad and all teachers are perverted crooks. Blah Blah Blah


My respect for you just increased, yet again. I agree with your way of thinking here. But I would add, Americans need to remember that we have the freedom to get involved with the decision making process by doing things as easy as voting. But can go even farther by getting involved in politics, try and make changes if you don't like what is going on. But one thing for sure, if you don't at least write those letters to your represnetatives and voice your opinions to those who are supposed to represent your opinion, then there is not problem as far as they are concerned. No letters, means no complaints.

SO GET ACTIVE.

[dragonsdaddy]

along the lines of coddling prisoners- this ole boy may have it right.

TO THOSE OF YOU NOT FAMILIAR WITH
JOE ARPAIO
HE IS THE MARICOPA ARIZONA COUNTY SHERIFF AND HE KEEPS GETTING ELECTED OVER AND OVER.



THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY:
Sheriff Joe Arpaio (in Arizona) who created the "tent city jail":

He has jail meals down to 40 cents a serving and charges the inmates for them.

He stopped smoking and porno magazines in the jails. Took away their weights. Cut off all but "G" movies.

He started chain gangs so the inmates could do free work on county and city projects.

Then he started chain gangs for women so he wouldn't get sued for discrimination.

He took away cable TV until he found out there was a federal court order that required cable TV for jails. So he hooked up the cable TV again only let in the Disney channel and the weather channel.

When asked why the weather channel he replied, so they will know how hot it's gonna be while they are working on my chain gangs.

He cut off coffee since it has zero nutritional value.

When the inmates complained, he told them, "This isn't the Ritz/Carlton. If you don't like it, don't come back."

He bought Newt Gingrich's lecture series on videotape that he pipes into the jails.

When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series might explain why a lot of the inmates were in his jails in the first place.


More on the Arizona Sheriff:

With temperatures being even hotter than usual in Phoenix (116 degrees just set a new record), the Associated Press reports: About 2,000 inmates living in a barbed-wire-surrounded tent encampment at the Maricopa County Jail have been given permission to strip down to their government-issued pink boxer shorts.

On Wednesday, hundreds of men wearing boxers were either curled up on their bunk beds or chatted in the tents, which reached 138 degrees inside the week before.

Many were also swathed in wet, pink towels as sweat collected on their chests and dripped down to their pink socks.

"It feels like we are in a furnace," said James Zanzot, an inmate who has lived in the tents for 1 year. "It's inhumane."

Joe Arpaio, the tough-guy sheriff who created the tent city and long ago started making his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna sandwiches, is not one bit sympathetic. He said Wednesday that he told all of the inmates: "It's 120 degrees in Iraq and our soldiers are living in tents too, and they have to wear full battle gear, but they didn't commit any crimes, so shut your damned mouths!"

Way to go, Sheriff! Maybe if all prisons were like this one there would be a lot less crime and/or repeat offenders. Criminals should be punished for their crimes - not live in luxury until it's time for their parole, only to go out and commit another crime so they can get back in to live on taxpayers money and enjoy things taxpayers can't afford to have for themselves.

[AZTiger]

ah good ol Sheriff Joe!!!

[slorch]

If 138 is inhumane, then I guess my salesmen( and myself when I was on a route) ought to complain about the 145 F it can get to in a stepvan full of chips- verified with meat thermometer more than once.

I say make prison so hard that people won't want to come back- Joe has it right!!!!

[stevefoxsc]

Please explain to me how Mr. Leuchter could possibly be "the originator" of lethal injection (as you put it), when Fred Leuchter was born in 1943 yet the initial suggestion of lethal injection as a form of execution was first published in 1888. The fundamental laws of physics say that it is not possible for somebody to invent something 55 years before they are born.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lethal_injection
http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1029-22.htm
http://www.answers.com/topic/lethal-injection
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Lethal_injection
http://www.spot-on.com/archives/brauchli/2005/10/a_grim_primer.html

As for the notion that I am a Bush supporter... I can't completely say that right now, but I'm not a Bush detractor either. I personally feel that Bush's policy of crazy spending, inflated government and porous borders is better left to the democrats left of center that so often advance such policies. The only reason I got so involved in this thread is because I find it grossly irresponsible to compare somebody to the worst mass-murder in history simply because you don't agree with his political beliefs. That is the kind of juvenile shock-talk that is best left for nuts like George Soros and Howard Dean… not for reasonable, intelligent adults.

"The concept had been proposed in 1888 by J. Mount Bleyer in New York, but was not approved"

As for bush i'm still not a fan or supporter i don't like alot of things hes done though some minor ones have been good such as no child left behind where minorities have had improvements shown in school and testesting score.Though I think his approach on how he went into iraq was wrong, and how alot of things around there are going on civilians n childern getting killed and what not thats why I tossed my comparison in there.

As for the rest taking shots

no drgnbkr I don't support hilary either... Are you gona support her now knowing this?


Slorch your english is far from perfect, though i'll let you have your dandy spellcheck insult aslong as it floats your boat.

[drgnbkr]

Steve, I'm glad we have something in common on Hilary..I just take offense to made up items used to bash the Preident of the US. It does not work to just repeat the line "Bush Lies" ..no matter how many times you say it or read it in the NY Times, does'nt make it true...It's fine with me that your liberal & I'm conservative, just try & mix in a little truth once in a while....There are a lot of the worlds best troops, in Afganistan & Iraq killing bad guys, so that you can have your opinion...I thank God they are there taking care of business. Maybe you should take this weekend to give thanks for their efforts.

[stevefoxsc]

Steve, I'm glad we have something in common on Hilary..I just take offense to made up items used to bash the Preident of the US. It does not work to just repeat the line "Bush Lies" ..no matter how many times you say it or read it in the NY Times, does'nt make it true...It's fine with me that your liberal & I'm conservative, just try & mix in a little truth once in a while....There are a lot of the worlds best troops, in Afganistan & Iraq killing bad guys, so that you can have your opinion...I thank God they are there taking care of business. Maybe you should take this weekend to give thanks for their efforts.

Like i said before i understand it bugs some of you that it was such a harsh comparison, but the fact of the matter is, i just don't agree with everything hes done this election had alot of turn moil that was based on lies that were aimed at bush in my opinion that it self was wrong stating that hes pulling a draft out when he wasn't i know how to seperate my self from people like that.

[slorch]

he still has done nothing remotely close to the sinister deeds of Hitler, and that was the point of contention.

My Engrish is just fine, thank you:)

[slorch]

Like i said before i understand it bugs some of you that it was such a harsh comparison, but the fact of the matter is, i just don't agree with everything hes done this election had alot of turn moil that was based on lies that were aimed at bush in my opinion that it self was wrong stating that hes pulling a draft out when he wasn't i know how to seperate my self from people like that.
please define the two bold words, Mr professor.
(Say Bush isn't Hitler, and I'll quit:) )

[Miss Kitty]

please define the two bold words, Mr professor.
(Say Bush isn't Hitler, and I'll quit:) )


AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! :D :D

[TexasRed6x]

please define the two bold words, Mr professor.
(Say Bush isn't Hitler, and I'll quit:) )
Let's hope not LOL!!:D

[DragonWatcher]

First and foremost I would beg everyone here to consider one thing before the thread degenerates into a rabble of name calling. You can't just label someone a Democrat or a Republican and stereotype some of the party beliefs onto them. The democratic party itself is made up of such a variety of views that democrats rarely can agree themselves on many issues (very evident when you watch CNN). Demonizing others with beliefs is not going to help anything at all. Labelling Bush as a hitleresque person is just plain ignorant and disrespectful to millions of jews and others who suffered in concentration camps. I once got in an argument with an idiot democrat at my school (baylor), and unfortunately many of the democrats there such as this one are nurtured into such extremism that they are more athiest socialists than actual democrats. We were discussing the invasion of Iraq, which I supported, although not for WMD reasons, and he seemed to get slightly flustered and remarked "Americans are nothing more than the nazi's of the 20th century". I kindly responded that he was an f'ing idiot and that the nazis were the nazi's of the 20th century. This kind of banter on both sides is nothing more than corrosive to the political process. Also labelling someone else as standard liberal mumbo jumbo is just as bad.

I'm a moderate democrat. But that can in no way even show what I myself believe on certain issues. I'm extremely pro life, that includes both the issues of abortion and the death penalty. Does that mean I'm soft on crime? I whole heartedly support what that arizona sheriff does, prison shouldn't be a cakewalk when your in it. I just think that the death penalty is an abhorrant punishment that simply doesn't work. Murder rates (averaged per 100,000 citizens) in states without the death penalty as of 2004 are 4.02 while states with capital punishment have a murder rate of 5.71 according to the FBI's annual publication on national crime rates. That's how I know that people won't go out on a killing spree if there is no death penalty. A black man, over the last 25 years in Texas, is 70% more likely to get the death penalty than a white man when committing the SAME crime. There are also many numerous cases that have been overturned with the addition of DNA forensic evidence. I don't just think, I'm a liberal, I want to hug everybody and eat Ice cream with murders and kill a baby that same afternoon. Unfortunately, thats what many assume I do the second they know I'm a democrat.

Many of you I'm sure will give me that same response of "typical liberal mantra" but that is the weak and idiot's way out. I make a point never to dismiss a conservative or even opposing democratic view like that. If you don't believe it, look up numbers, formulate an opposing argument, don't just call me a hippie. I don't assume Republicans are all homophobic morons trying to beat me to death with bibles. The moment we quit demonizing each other in this country is the moment when politics will return back to the hands of the people. The far left is wrong, the far right is wrong, but 90% of American citizens in the middle are the ones who are being screwed by the likes of figures like Pat Robertson and Al Sharpton. There are demons on both sides, but all I ask is that you make up your own mind without these rash and idiotic generalizations.

[yankee]

^^^^^^
No one's going to bash you for talking sense despite you being a democrat. but when people like stevie wonder come on here talking crap and making a simple point get blown out of proportion (death penalty, electricution chair, etc) then you're going to have to take some crap.

[pack0808]

First and foremost I would beg everyone here to consider one thing before the thread degenerates into a rabble of name calling. You can't just label someone a Democrat or a Republican and stereotype some of the party beliefs onto them. The democratic party itself is made up of such a variety of views that democrats rarely can agree themselves on many issues (very evident when you watch CNN). Demonizing others with beliefs is not going to help anything at all. Labelling Bush as a hitleresque person is just plain ignorant and disrespectful to millions of jews and others who suffered in concentration camps. I once got in an argument with an idiot democrat at my school (baylor), and unfortunately many of the democrats there such as this one are nurtured into such extremism that they are more athiest socialists than actual democrats. We were discussing the invasion of Iraq, which I supported, although not for WMD reasons, and he seemed to get slightly flustered and remarked "Americans are nothing more than the nazi's of the 20th century". I kindly responded that he was an f'ing idiot and that the nazis were the nazi's of the 20th century. This kind of banter on both sides is nothing more than corrosive to the political process. Also labelling someone else as standard liberal mumbo jumbo is just as bad.

I'm a moderate democrat. But that can in no way even show what I myself believe on certain issues. I'm extremely pro life, that includes both the issues of abortion and the death penalty. Does that mean I'm soft on crime? I whole heartedly support what that arizona sheriff does, prison shouldn't be a cakewalk when your in it. I just think that the death penalty is an abhorrant punishment that simply doesn't work. Murder rates (averaged per 100,000 citizens) in states without the death penalty as of 2004 are 4.02 while states with capital punishment have a murder rate of 5.71 according to the FBI's annual publication on national crime rates. That's how I know that people won't go out on a killing spree if there is no death penalty. A black man, over the last 25 years in Texas, is 70% more likely to get the death penalty than a white man when committing the SAME crime. There are also many numerous cases that have been overturned with the addition of DNA forensic evidence. I don't just think, I'm a liberal, I want to hug everybody and eat Ice cream with murders and kill a baby that same afternoon. Unfortunately, thats what many assume I do the second they know I'm a democrat.

Many of you I'm sure will give me that same response of "typical liberal mantra" but that is the weak and idiot's way out. I make a point never to dismiss a conservative or even opposing democratic view like that. If you don't believe it, look up numbers, formulate an opposing argument, don't just call me a hippie. I don't assume Republicans are all homophobic morons trying to beat me to death with bibles. The moment we quit demonizing each other in this country is the moment when politics will return back to the hands of the people. The far left is wrong, the far right is wrong, but 90% of American citizens in the middle are the ones who are being screwed by the likes of figures like Pat Robertson and Al Sharpton. There are demons on both sides, but all I ask is that you make up your own mind without these rash and idiotic generalizations.


I respect your opinion and think you make some great points. Pro life? I could not vote for anybody that believes it is ok to kill innocent tiny babies and call it choice. Killing a convicted killer is a whole different ball game. But that is just me. No i do not support Bush in all he does. I think he has made several mistakes (the border etc etc). But i vote for a party that represents the majority of my beliefs and right now that is the republican party. I am as far from a bible beater (even though i am a christian) as you can find and i am sure you are not some wacky liberal hippie just because you are a democrat. I just think that many extreme groups have hijacked todays democratic party. It is not your mom or dads democrat party anymore. Z Miller made some very good points on this same subject.

[Dawg Fan]

A black man, over the last 25 years in Texas, is 70% more likely to get the death penalty than a white man when committing the SAME crime.

Where are those stats coming from? Are you just throwing out numbers or do you have some backup on that? I get so sick of all the race baiting. I would really like to see the info on the SAME crimes and not similar crimes. Also lets look at percentages of crimes per each race and compare it to overall percentages of the population. I agree with a lot of what you posted but don't open this can of worms.

[Reaganrattler07]

along the lines of coddling prisoners- this ole boy may have it right.

TO THOSE OF YOU NOT FAMILIAR WITH
JOE ARPAIO
HE IS THE MARICOPA ARIZONA COUNTY SHERIFF AND HE KEEPS GETTING ELECTED OVER AND OVER.



THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY:
Sheriff Joe Arpaio (in Arizona) who created the "tent city jail":

He has jail meals down to 40 cents a serving and charges the inmates for them.

He stopped smoking and porno magazines in the jails. Took away their weights. Cut off all but "G" movies.

He started chain gangs so the inmates could do free work on county and city projects.

Then he started chain gangs for women so he wouldn't get sued for discrimination.

He took away cable TV until he found out there was a federal court order that required cable TV for jails. So he hooked up the cable TV again only let in the Disney channel and the weather channel.

When asked why the weather channel he replied, so they will know how hot it's gonna be while they are working on my chain gangs.

He cut off coffee since it has zero nutritional value.

When the inmates complained, he told them, "This isn't the Ritz/Carlton. If you don't like it, don't come back."

He bought Newt Gingrich's lecture series on videotape that he pipes into the jails.

When asked by a reporter if he had any lecture series by a Democrat, he replied that a democratic lecture series might explain why a lot of the inmates were in his jails in the first place.


More on the Arizona Sheriff:

With temperatures being even hotter than usual in Phoenix (116 degrees just set a new record), the Associated Press reports: About 2,000 inmates living in a barbed-wire-surrounded tent encampment at the Maricopa County Jail have been given permission to strip down to their government-issued pink boxer shorts.

On Wednesday, hundreds of men wearing boxers were either curled up on their bunk beds or chatted in the tents, which reached 138 degrees inside the week before.

Many were also swathed in wet, pink towels as sweat collected on their chests and dripped down to their pink socks.

"It feels like we are in a furnace," said James Zanzot, an inmate who has lived in the tents for 1 year. "It's inhumane."

Joe Arpaio, the tough-guy sheriff who created the tent city and long ago started making his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna sandwiches, is not one bit sympathetic. He said Wednesday that he told all of the inmates: "It's 120 degrees in Iraq and our soldiers are living in tents too, and they have to wear full battle gear, but they didn't commit any crimes, so shut your damned mouths!"

Way to go, Sheriff! Maybe if all prisons were like this one there would be a lot less crime and/or repeat offenders. Criminals should be punished for their crimes - not live in luxury until it's time for their parole, only to go out and commit another crime so they can get back in to live on taxpayers money and enjoy things taxpayers can't afford to have for themselves.

We need to make that guy in charge of the prison systems in this country...

[stevefoxsc]

Where are those stats coming from? Are you just throwing out numbers or do you have some backup on that? I get so sick of all the race baiting. I would really like to see the info on the SAME crimes and not similar crimes. Also lets look at percentages of crimes per each race and compare it to overall percentages of the population. I agree with a lot of what you posted but don't open this can of worms.

Race sex and all kinds of things can alter trials, example all these recent gorgeous blondes sleeping with there students half those teachers are back out teaching, put a man in there place and he would be in jail.

As for race a small article i found that may give you an idea.

"When it comes to the death penalty, Texas is in a league of its own and the situation there is growing worse. Of the 146 people executed in the state since the death penalty was reinstated, 37 were killed in 1997 alone.

Racism plays a huge role in determining who dies. In one glaring example, Texas law enforcement authorities picked Clarence Lee Brandley from among many suspects in a circumstantial case of **** and murder of a white woman. As authorities told Brandley- convicted but released in 1989 after being exonerated-"You're the ni****, so you're elected". Dallas has sent dozens of people to death row but never for killing an African American. Harris County (Houston) alone is home to 40 percent of all African Americans in Texas on death row. Blacks make up only 20 percent of the county's population but about two-thirds of its death row inmates.

Texas also boasts a number of mad dog district attorneys. In Dallas, the DA's office prepared a manual for new prosecutors, used until the early 1990s, which said: "You are not looking for a fair juror, but rather a strong, biased and sometimes hypocritical individual who believes that Defendants are different from them in kind, rather than degree...You are not looking for any member of a minority group which may subject him to suppression-they almost always empathize with the accused...Minority races almost always empathize with the Defendant."

Houston has executed more people since the re-imposition of the death penalty than any state except, of course, Texas. The Texas Observer recently dubbed Hunstville prison near Houston, where Karla Faye Tucker was executed, "the most active human abattoir in North America."

The man most responsible for this dubious distinction is Johnny Holmes, who has headed the local DA's office since 1979. Holmes hangs a sign in his office's death penalty unit entitled "The Silver Needle Society" which contains a list of all the people killed by lethal injection in the county. Holmes's office also reportedly throws champagne parties on the night of scheduled executions."

You would be suprised, on a recent penn and teller special on the DP, they got into an issue about how 46% of people on death row are white and the other half were African but, Africans only make up about 20% of the population. You have to look at it from serveral angles. Earlier when I was lookin around I saw alot of articles talking about how alot of people on the defense don't get lawyers and in serveral cases lawyers don't do there job nor care, example on one case a man lost his trial cause his lawyer didn't even stay awake infact he slept through the guys trial.

Other part of the article

Another reason Texas kills so many people is the abysmal quality of many of its court-appointed attorneys. Attorneys in Texas have been drunk during trial (one even had to file an appellate brief from the drunk tank), had affairs with the wives of defendants, and not raised a single objection during an entire trial. In all these cases, appeals courts have ruled that defendants were provided with a competent defense.

In three death penalty cases in Houston, defense attorneys fell asleep during trial (as Stephen Bright says, "this gives new meaning to the term dream team"). The trial judge refused to dismiss the case of George McFarland, convicted of a robbery-killing, by saying that the state had fulfilled its obligation of providing McFarland with counsel and "the Constitution doesn't say the lawyer has to be awake". An appeals court in Texas upheld the death sentence on McFarland and the Supreme Court refused to review the case.

Attorney Joe Frank Cannon has represented ten men sentenced to death. "Represent" here is a generous description. In the case of Calvin Burdine, the court clerk testified that Cannon "was asleep on several occasions on several days over the course of the proceedings". Cannon's entire file on the case consisted of three pages of notes. (The prosecutor in that case urged the jury to choose death over life in prison because Burdine was homosexual. "We all know what goes on inside of prisons, so sending him there would be like sending him to a party", he said.)

During the past eight years, only the United States, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq and Yemen have executed children (those who were under 18 at the time of the crime).

Though Ellis stressed that there are dedicated lawyers of high quality in Texas, such as those working in the Texas Resource Center (which like other such appeals projects across the country lost its federal funding in 1995), the general level of legal representation in Texas is awful. "I've seen incredibly slipshod work there. A man on Death Row just sent me his state habeas appeal, which he saw as a ticket to lethal injection and he was right. It was 50 large-type pages of illiterate nonsense, and this from an attorney who lectures on habeas!"

Ellis says the state habeas appeal these days is often a convicted person's only chance at reprieve, in which fact-driven issues (such as ineffective counsel) impinging on a person's constitutional right to a fair trial can be raised. "In California, an appeals attorney can regard $35,000 as a reasonable (state-provided) opening budget, with the whole budget going to $150,000 and up. I just had a Texas case where I needed to get an expert witness, which could cost around $15,000. The Texas Court of Criminal Appeals gave me a total budget for the entire appeal of $5,000."
Of course, appeals face desperately long odds in all states. But in California, which actually has more people on Death Row than Texas-477 to 428-there are far more lawyers and investigators working to keep their clients alive. As a result, California has only executed four people since the death penalty was reinstated, a fraction of the number killed in Texas.

Texas is the only state where a judge or state attorney general can set an execution date long before the appeals process has been exhausted. Ellis noted one case where a condemned man saw his federal appeal go through district court, circuit court and the US Supreme Court in less than a month, with the last two appeals occuring on the day of his execution. The Supreme Court finally granted a stay 45 minutes after the scheduled hour of his death (authorities were good enough to delay the injection while they waited for a ruling to come down).

California is as eager as Texas to kill people. But there's a large and active legal opposition, plus the all-important presence of money. As Ellis points out, "In California, I can have a co-counsel. In Texas, I'm the whole team. Texas is an unbelievable death machine."

It starts to thicken does it not?

Heres the final part and end of the article

A Brazen Racial Animus

To be sure, Texas faces stiff competition in laying claim to the title of the Death State. In Georgia, all 46 state district attorneys-who alone are charged with deciding whether to seek the death penalty-are white while 40 percent of those sentenced to death since 1976 have been black. No white person has been executed for the murder of a black in Georgia, nor has the death penalty ever been sought in such a case. Of the 12 blacks executed in Georgia since 1983, six were sentenced in cases where prosecutors had succeeded in removing all potential black jurors.

Nor does the warden of Georgia's state prison system, a mortician, inspire great confidence. After being appointed he declared that many prisoners in the state are not fit to kill. He later led a raid on one penitentiary in which, according to 18 employees, prisoners who were handcuffed or otherwise restrained were beaten.

The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that people sentenced to death are not entitled to representation after the post-conviction phase. Georgia was the first state to take advantage of this decision when in 1996, it ordered Exzanavious Gibson, a man with an IQ of 80, to defend himself.

Eddie Lee Ross, a black man, was defended by a court-appointed attorney who had served as the Imperial Wizard of the KKK for 50 years. Ross's lawyer fell asleep repeatedly during the trial, failed to make any objections, filed no pre-trial motions and missed numerous court dates. Ross got the death penalty. James Messner, who was brain damaged, was electrocuted on July 28, 1988, after his own attorney suggested in closing arguments that the death penalty might, in fact, be the appropriate sentence.

In the case of William Hance, a black, the jury was deadlocked at 11-1 for death with the lone hold out being a woman named Ms. Daniels, the only black on the panel. Death sentences must be unanimous in Georgia so the other jurors began pressuring Daniels. One said, "We need to get it over with because tomorrow's mother's day". Daniels refused to budge but the foreman sent the judge a note saying the jury had voted for death. Despite an affidavit from Daniels, Hance went to the electric chair in 1994.

Virginia executes more people than any other state but Texas-42 since the death penalty was reinstated. The situation in the town of Danville, the last capital of the Confederacy, is instructive in regard to how the death penalty is imposed in the state. According to the Richmond Times-Dispatch, since being incorporated in 1890 every person executed in the town has been African-American.

Danville's chief prosecutor is William Fuller III, has sent seven men, all black, to death row. That's one less than the number of men condemned to death row in Richmond, a city with a population almost four times higher.

Fuller has charged eight people in Danville with capital murder, 16 blacks and two whites. He sought the death penalty for eight of the African-Americans and none of the whites. "Danville's criminal justice system is an unconstitutional embarrassment,"lawyers for Ronald Watkins, one of the condemned, wrote in a pending appeal to a federal court. "The brazen racial animus that fuels the death penalty machine in Danville should be acknowledged and neutralized."

The situation is not much better elsewhere. In Philadelphia, legal representation for people facing the death penalty is so poor that officials in charge of the system told the Philadelphia Inquirer that they would not want such lawyers to handle their case in traffic court.

In Alabama, the maximum fee allowed to a court-appointed attorney is $2,000. "I once defended a capital case [in Alabama] and was paid so little that I could have gone to McDonald's and flipped hamburgers and made more than I made defending someone whose life was at stake," says Bright.

In South Carolina, the state attorney general campaigned on a platform that called for replacing the electric chair with an electric sofa in order to speed the pace of executions. CP

Maybe that will give you some sort of insight on how it's at times racist :(

[stevefoxsc]

please define the two bold words, Mr professor.
(Say Bush isn't Hitler, and I'll quit:) )

Guess you were hoping for a misspelled word, sorry it's not just miss used in context but not spelt wrong! I got a special sticker just for you let me pm it for you!

[slorch]

Guess you were hoping for a misspelled word, sorry it's not just miss used in context but not spelt wrong! I got a special sticker just for you let me pm it for you!
you show me an ENGLISH dictionary with the word turnmoil in it, and I'll send you my check this week.

apologies are accepted...

[stevefoxsc]

you show me an ENGLISH dictionary with the word turnmoil in it, and I'll send you my check this week.

apologies are accepted...



You're aware that a dictionary is outdated the minute it's released?

Now before I answer your question just go around and type the word in on google or any search engine, you'll see that various web sites books and so on, does that mean all of them are wrong? Examples :

"Turnmoil at NASA, and Numerous Funding Announcements"
"Kroc Institute : Stability and Turnmoil as Contexts of Conflict ..."
"Advocate, The: New Mexico's mecca in turnmoil"
"Wake up! : survive and prosper in the coming economic turnmoil ..."

Now to answer your question, is it any of the few dictionarys I looked up online, no...
Does it mean it's not a word? No... It's used various times on serveral sites.

When it comes down to is it in any dictionarys not any that I have seen point for you.
When it comes down to misspelled and it beeing a word, point for me...

[slorch]

Guess you were hoping for a misspelled word, sorry it's not just miss used in context but not spelt wrong! I got a special sticker just for you let me pm it for you!
no point for you, you claimed it was not mispelled. I have a sticker to live up to.
Oh BTW, that makes me the winner 1-0.:)

[Dawg Fan]

Race sex and all kinds of things can alter trials, example all these recent gorgeous blondes sleeping with there students half those teachers are back out teaching, put a man in there place and he would be in jail.

As for race a small article i found that may give you an idea.

"When it comes to the death penalty, Texas is in a league of its own and the situation there is growing worse. Of the 146 people executed in the state since the death penalty was reinstated, 37 were killed in 1997 alone.

Racism plays a huge role in determining who dies. In one glaring example, Texas law enforcement authorities picked Clarence Lee Brandley from among many suspects in a circumstantial case of **** and murder of a white woman. As authorities told Brandley- convicted but released in 1989 after being exonerated-"You're the ni****, so you're elected". Dallas has sent dozens of people to death row but never for killing an African American. Harris County (Houston) alone is home to 40 percent of all African Americans in Texas on death row. Blacks make up only 20 percent of the county's population but about two-thirds of its death row inmates.

Texas also boasts a number of mad dog district attorneys. In Dallas, the DA's office prepared a manual for new prosecutors, used until the early 1990s, which said: "You are not looking for a fair juror, but rather a strong, biased and sometimes hypocritical individual who believes that Defendants are different from them in kind, rather than degree...You are not looking for any member of a minority group which may subject him to suppression-they almost always empathize with the accused...Minority races almost always empathize with the Defendant."

Houston has executed more people since the re-imposition of the death penalty than any state except, of course, Texas. The Texas Observer recently dubbed Hunstville prison near Houston, where Karla Faye Tucker was executed, "the most active human abattoir in North America."

The man most responsible for this dubious distinction is Johnny Holmes, who has headed the local DA's office since 1979. Holmes hangs a sign in his office's death penalty unit entitled "The Silver Needle Society" which contains a list of all the people killed by lethal injection in the county. Holmes's office also reportedly throws champagne parties on the night of scheduled executions."

You would be suprised, on a recent penn and teller special on the DP, they got into an issue about how 46% of people on death row are white and the other half were African but, Africans only make up about 20% of the population. You have to look at it from serveral angles. Earlier when I was lookin around I saw alot of articles talking about how alot of people on the defense don't get lawyers and in serveral cases lawyers don't do there job nor care, example on one case a man lost his trial cause his lawyer didn't even stay awake infact he slept through the guys trial.

Other part of the article

Another reason Texas kills so many people is the abysmal quality of many of its court-appointed attorneys. Attorneys in Texas have been drunk during trial (one even had to file an appellate brief from the drunk tank), had affairs with the wives of defendants, and not raised a single objection during an entire trial. In all these cases, appeals courts have ruled that defendants were provided with a competent defense.

In three death penalty cases in Houston, defense attorneys fell asleep during trial (as Stephen Bright says, "this gives new meaning to the term dream team"). The trial judge refused to dismiss the case of George McFarland, convicted of a robbery-killing, by saying that the state had fulfilled its obligation of providing McFarland with counsel and "the Constitution doesn't say the lawyer has to be awake". An appeals court in Texas upheld the death sentence on McFarland and the Supreme Court refused to review the case.

Attorney Joe Frank Cannon has represented ten men sentenced to death. "Represent" here is a generous description. In the case of Calvin Burdine, the court clerk testified that Cannon "was asleep on several occasions on several days over the course of the proceedings". Cannon's entire file on the case consisted of three pages of notes. (The prosecutor in that case urged the jury to choose death over life in prison because Burdine was homosexual. "We all know what goes on inside of prisons, so sending him there would be like sending him to a party", he said.)

During the past eight years, only the United States, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq and Yemen have executed children (those who were under 18 at the time of the crime).

Though Ellis stressed that there are dedicated lawyers of high quality in Texas, such as those working in the Texas Resource Center (which like other such appeals projects across the country lost its federal funding in 1995), the general level of legal representation in Texas is awful. "I've seen incredibly slipshod work there. A man on Death Row just sent me his state habeas appeal, which he saw as a ticket to lethal injection and he was right. It was 50 large-type pages of illiterate nonsense, and this from an attorney who lectures on habeas!"

Ellis says the state habeas appeal these days is often a convicted person's only chance at reprieve, in which fact-driven issues (such as ineffective counsel) impinging on a person's constitutional right to a fair trial can be raised. "In California, an appeals attorney can regard $35,000 as a reasonable (state-provided) opening budget, with the whole budget going to $150,000 and up. I just had a Texas case where I needed to get an expert witness, which could cost around $15,000. The Texas Court of Criminal Appeals gave me a total budget for the entire appeal of $5,000."
Of course, appeals face desperately long odds in all states. But in California, which actually has more people on Death Row than Texas-477 to 428-there are far more lawyers and investigators working to keep their clients alive. As a result, California has only executed four people since the death penalty was reinstated, a fraction of the number killed in Texas.

Texas is the only state where a judge or state attorney general can set an execution date long before the appeals process has been exhausted. Ellis noted one case where a condemned man saw his federal appeal go through district court, circuit court and the US Supreme Court in less than a month, with the last two appeals occuring on the day of his execution. The Supreme Court finally granted a stay 45 minutes after the scheduled hour of his death (authorities were good enough to delay the injection while they waited for a ruling to come down).

California is as eager as Texas to kill people. But there's a large and active legal opposition, plus the all-important presence of money. As Ellis points out, "In California, I can have a co-counsel. In Texas, I'm the whole team. Texas is an unbelievable death machine."

It starts to thicken does it not?

Heres the final part and end of the article

A Brazen Racial Animus

To be sure, Texas faces stiff competition in laying claim to the title of the Death State. In Georgia, all 46 state district attorneys-who alone are charged with deciding whether to seek the death penalty-are white while 40 percent of those sentenced to death since 1976 have been black. No white person has been executed for the murder of a black in Georgia, nor has the death penalty ever been sought in such a case. Of the 12 blacks executed in Georgia since 1983, six were sentenced in cases where prosecutors had succeeded in removing all potential black jurors.

Nor does the warden of Georgia's state prison system, a mortician, inspire great confidence. After being appointed he declared that many prisoners in the state are not fit to kill. He later led a raid on one penitentiary in which, according to 18 employees, prisoners who were handcuffed or otherwise restrained were beaten.

The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that people sentenced to death are not entitled to representation after the post-conviction phase. Georgia was the first state to take advantage of this decision when in 1996, it ordered Exzanavious Gibson, a man with an IQ of 80, to defend himself.

Eddie Lee Ross, a black man, was defended by a court-appointed attorney who had served as the Imperial Wizard of the KKK for 50 years. Ross's lawyer fell asleep repeatedly during the trial, failed to make any objections, filed no pre-trial motions and missed numerous court dates. Ross got the death penalty. James Messner, who was brain damaged, was electrocuted on July 28, 1988, after his own attorney suggested in closing arguments that the death penalty might, in fact, be the appropriate sentence.

In the case of William Hance, a black, the jury was deadlocked at 11-1 for death with the lone hold out being a woman named Ms. Daniels, the only black on the panel. Death sentences must be unanimous in Georgia so the other jurors began pressuring Daniels. One said, "We need to get it over with because tomorrow's mother's day". Daniels refused to budge but the foreman sent the judge a note saying the jury had voted for death. Despite an affidavit from Daniels, Hance went to the electric chair in 1994.

Virginia executes more people than any other state but Texas-42 since the death penalty was reinstated. The situation in the town of Danville, the last capital of the Confederacy, is instructive in regard to how the death penalty is imposed in the state. According to the Richmond Times-Dispatch, since being incorporated in 1890 every person executed in the town has been African-American.

Danville's chief prosecutor is William Fuller III, has sent seven men, all black, to death row. That's one less than the number of men condemned to death row in Richmond, a city with a population almost four times higher.

Fuller has charged eight people in Danville with capital murder, 16 blacks and two whites. He sought the death penalty for eight of the African-Americans and none of the whites. "Danville's criminal justice system is an unconstitutional embarrassment,"lawyers for Ronald Watkins, one of the condemned, wrote in a pending appeal to a federal court. "The brazen racial animus that fuels the death penalty machine in Danville should be acknowledged and neutralized."

The situation is not much better elsewhere. In Philadelphia, legal representation for people facing the death penalty is so poor that officials in charge of the system told the Philadelphia Inquirer that they would not want such lawyers to handle their case in traffic court.

In Alabama, the maximum fee allowed to a court-appointed attorney is $2,000. "I once defended a capital case [in Alabama] and was paid so little that I could have gone to McDonald's and flipped hamburgers and made more than I made defending someone whose life was at stake," says Bright.

In South Carolina, the state attorney general campaigned on a platform that called for replacing the electric chair with an electric sofa in order to speed the pace of executions. CP

Maybe that will give you some sort of insight on how it's at times racist :(

Interesting reading, where did you find this article anyway? I have found that printed articles seem to always slant the way the particular publication leans. I don't doubt the number of executions but also I have found that many have earned the most severe of penalties. What ever happened to the victims rights that have been terminated so savagely by most of these low lifes? They don't amount to much after they are dead do they? I personally would like to see the perpetrator of a murder get delt with in the same manner in which they committed the murder. In other words if a murderer beat someone to death they should be beat to death. That would probably give some of these worthless punks something to think about before committing these crimes.

[slorch]

Interesting reading, where did you find this article anyway? I have found that printed articles seem to always slant the way the particular publication leans. I don't doubt the number of executions but also I have found that many have earned the most severe of penalties. What ever happened to the victims rights that have been terminated so savagely by most of these low lifes? They don't amount to much after they are dead do they? I personally would like to see the perpetrator of a murder get delt with in the same manner in which they committed the murder. In other words if a murderer beat someone to death they should be beat to death. That would probably give some of these worthless punks something to think about before committing these crimes.
often they don't deserve the same death. It should be public and brutal IMO. It's obvious there is little deterrant to these crimes today. I think sherriff Joe is on to something, and that article didn't discuss his views on capital punishment.

[DragonWatcher]

For everything and more in regards to the death penalty with Texas in particular read this article


http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=45&did=489

[Dawg Fan]

For everything and more in regards to the death penalty with Texas in particular read this article


http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=45&did=489

Sorry but that site is dedicated to abolishing the death penalty and is slanted to the liberal thinking that I disagree with.

[slorch]

my only advice to all of the "innocent" people in prison and on death row in particular," Why would you ever put yourself in a position to even be accused of harming someone?" That's the only way to get the death penalty. That in and of itself is crime enough to be punished brutally. The only way I could ever imagine hurting someone else is in defense of a woman, child or myself- and I would deal with it knowing I was doing right whatever the outcome of the trial.
I find it hard to pity some of these "upstanding" citizens who were in the dark alley or bar room brawl, but insist they are not the one who pulled the trigger. What the hell are you doing there anyway? Don't put yourself in that position.
maybe you're saying we are free and people can do what they want. I say with freedom, comes responsibility. Some people can't handle said responsibility. Don't have Johnny Cochran on your defense? Should have realized beforehand, I don't have the resources to get out of this.

for every action, there is a reaction
for every decision there are consequences- we live with the good ones and bad ones.

simplistic-yes, true- always

[jtk1519]

[Ron White]Other states are trying to abolish the death penalty and Texas is puttin' in an express lane.[/Ron White]

[ktCarl]

Wow! How did we get from the Dixie Chicks to the death penalty? :confused:

[Reaganrattler07]

often they don't deserve the same death. It should be public and brutal IMO. It's obvious there is little deterrant to these crimes today. I think sherriff Joe is on to something, and that article didn't discuss his views on capital punishment.

Yeah, we shouldn't be using lethal injection because it's HUMANE.....I say light'em up on a chair in the public square.....that'll wake people up.

[stevefoxsc]

Wow! How did we get from the Dixie Chicks to the death penalty? :confused:


You can blame me but it was a good debate for a while XD


here is the site i got my info from on DP
http://www.counterpunch.org/deathpenalty.html there was more in there i just broke it down and took stuff that was mostly along the lines of the convo


as far as choice of death from everything i read and seen, id probably choose a GUILLOTINE if it were allowed :/ that or fireing squad.

[stevefoxsc]

my only advice to all of the "innocent" people in prison and on death row in particular," Why would you ever put yourself in a position to even be accused of harming someone?" That's the only way to get the death penalty. That in and of itself is crime enough to be punished brutally. The only way I could ever imagine hurting someone else is in defense of a woman, child or myself- and I would deal with it knowing I was doing right whatever the outcome of the trial.
I find it hard to pity some of these "upstanding" citizens who were in the dark alley or bar room brawl, but insist they are not the one who pulled the trigger. What the hell are you doing there anyway? Don't put yourself in that position.
maybe you're saying we are free and people can do what they want. I say with freedom, comes responsibility. Some people can't handle said responsibility. Don't have Johnny Cochran on your defense? Should have realized beforehand, I don't have the resources to get out of this.

for every action, there is a reaction
for every decision there are consequences- we live with the good ones and bad ones.

simplistic-yes, true- always

Like i said before alot of times in cases evidence is with held and people lie.

Example true story, a guy was already in jail for a crime comitted, now remeber he was in jail, but he was accused of a murder case while in jail. They were gona send him to the DP until 2 people confessed up to it. He was found not guilty. Then spent 2 years in jail even after his time was up for his prior crime :/. Now hes just in college getting a degree in auto mechanics ^^

[slorch]

did you say committed a crime in jail?

Should never have been in jail in the first place. It's amazing how all the bad stuff happens to these great people.

And my life is the way it is because I'm really lucky(and because I am white)

[pack0808]

Guess you were hoping for a misspelled word, sorry it's not just miss used in context but not spelt wrong! I got a special sticker just for you let me pm it for you!


SPELT TURNMOIL? That is great stuff.

[Sacred Ground]

RADIO 'NOT READY', EITHER

"Not Ready to Make Nice," the new CD's dramatic first single, peaked at No. 36 on Billboard's country singles chart. "Everybody Knows," which has more country flavor, dropped to No. 50 after only reaching No. 48. In Dallas-Fort Worth, you won't hear "Nice" or "Everybody Knows" on the country dial. "Nice" was played briefly before listener protests stopped the song from spinning.

ANOTHER RANDOM FEUD

At the Academy of Country Music Awards last week, hostess Reba McEntire slammed the Dixie Chicks: "If the Dixie Chicks can sing with their foots in their mouths, surely I can host this sucker." It was probably retaliation for band member Martie Maguire's quote in Time: "I'd rather have a smaller following of really cool people who get it ... than people that have us in their five-disc changer with Reba McEntire and Toby Keith."

Now them's fightin words


Tickets for the group's Dallas show, at American Airlines Center on Sept. 29, go on sale Saturday. Get there early, tickets will go fast. What! :eek:

[Dawg Fan]

Taken from one of my favorite comics (Ron White) describes the chicks best IMO

" I had the right to remain silent but I didn't have the ability"

[ktCarl]

as far as choice of death from everything i read and seen, id probably choose a GUILLOTINE if it were allowed :/ that or fireing squad.

I would choose to be massaged to death by a thousand Geisha girls.

[slorch]

I would choose to be massaged to death by a thousand Geisha girls.
they weigh in at 350lbs each-

[RedRage00]

I think Dixie Chicks album debut at #1?

[pack0808]

I think Dixie Chicks album debut at #1?



Well yeeehawww, I guess I am going to have to go get me a few copies. ;)

[ktCarl]

they weigh in at 350lbs each-

Those are Sumo wrestlers, not Geisha girls or you're thinking of Sumo wrestlers in drag. Nasty. :eek:

[RedRage00]

Well yeeehawww, I guess I am going to have to go get me a few copies. ;)

Just download it for free! :p

[KattTx]

Those are Sumo wrestlers, not Geisha girls or you're thinking of Sumo wrestlers in drag. Nasty. :eek:

I thought this thread was distubing - then came this lovely visual. :D eeeewwwww

[RocklandDragon]

I think Dixie Chicks album debut at #1?

The album did debut at #1, selling about 500,000+ copies. Considering all the publicity they have received, I actually expected them to sell more. Their last album Home, sold more copies in its first week of release.

I expect the albums sales to take a serious drop after week 3. The media will want to interview them and congratulate them on their successful debut (more free publicity) and keep them in the public eye.

[Dawg Fan]

Wouldn't it just be ironic if they were the victim of a terrorist attack. Of course it would be Bushes fault:rolleyes:

[Bootsdaddy]

Yeah right! Name some stupid people that have "graduated" from Harvard and Yale?? You and I might not agree with many of their opinions or they might be a little strange, but i am sure they are far from stupid when it comes to intelligence. He did not become the president of the United States by being stupid. That is just a bs stereotype used by the media and the left. He is just a dumb hillbilly redneck from Texas yada yada yada.

An Ivy League graduate who flew jet fighters. You can call George W many things (arrogant comes to mind) but stupid aint one of them.

My main problem with the Chicks and Natalie Maines (head chick) is while I obviously agree with her right to voice a dissenting opinion she has absolutely no idea why she has that opinion. I doubt if she has ever cracked open a history book or read an op-ed page. Just a very simplistic "war is bad" therefore Bush is bad view.

[mojotrain]

Yes I remeber that, I also remeber a guy who still can't say nuclear correct. A guy whose ratings have been droping at an all time low, sure he got his MBA from harvard. He also got introduced to cocaine in his young college years...

No attacks since 9-11 huh? Didn't we have a guy up in virgina going on a sniper rampage on about 14 people 10 dead 4 injured? :confused: it started oct 2, is isn't it sept then oct or did it just change to oct then sept some time in the last 4 years?


His gpa was higher that the pinko liberal pull down your pants, yellow, married a pickle hieress for money,buttermilk suckin jerk the dims ran against him.

History lesson!
1. Why did Roosevelt, a dem. get us into a war with Germany and then Japan?
2. Why did Truman, a dem. drop a A-bomb on Japan?
3. What dim. Pres. was in office, when we went into Korea?
4. What dim Pres. were in in office, when we were in Viet Nam?

Of all the above questions none of the countries mentioned except Japan ever hit the USA.

I guess a simpler question would be do think we should have been in wars with Germany, Japan,North Korea and Viet Nam?

If it's unclear to anyone, I support the Presidents and the action they took. If not for them you and I would be living in caves.

All of the above actions were taken to protect the USA and or others from The Hitlers of the world.

If you can't answer the above questions then
you don't know history and you don't have the foggiest notion about tomorrow.

A lot of folks tried the drugs you mentioned. But none have soiled the President of the United States office like the guy who loved things under his desk who is also another dim.

The dims of today are not the dems of the greatest generation. By and large they are a bunch of gimmys.

If you want to see and learn both views, turn off cnn,abc,nbc,mtv and e- tonight and turn to Fox news.


In answer to your question, yes their was a sniper in Virginia and today their are more people killed in Detroit Mich. than in Iraq. for whatever thats worth.

Bush didn't build the dikes, he didn't creat the hurricanes and he didn't create the sunnamies(sp) in spite of what nbc tells you.

He wasn't the failure of getting people out of N O, the just re-elected Ray Nagin and the smartest of all governers was the failure. Bush won't be re building the shacks in the same locations as they were before. You just can't throw enough good money on top of dumb to make it anything but still dumb.

Another history question. What did the US goverment provide to the residents of Galveston/ Texas city after the greatest disaster ever in the US in reguard to loss of life. Answer:They sent them 10,000 army cots, thats all. Then sent the city a bill for those cots 6 months later. Who was President at that time?

I love this string and hope you can come back with answers to the above and if you wish ask me some.

PS Your spelling is as bad as mine. And I wouldn't bring it up except you inferred that your President, The President of the United States of America is somewhat unlearned.

[KattTx]

Man... it's hard to stop a train. :p Good post and I have to agree whole heartedly about the Dem's of today versus the Dem's of the greatest generation. They aren't even the same species anymore.

[RedRage00]

Bush is an idiot....like I said earlier...he can fry babies on the BBQ pit and yall wouldn't say anything lol

[KattTx]

OR the flip side of that - he could solve world hunger and come up with peace in the middle east and he would still be an idiot, warmongering, redneck according to ya'll. :p

[Dawg Fan]

Bush is an idiot....like I said earlier...he can fry babies on the BBQ pit and yall wouldn't say anything lol

Nice post from the founder and leading member of idiots in America. I really don't think Bush is a member of your club but you can always wish. lol

[RedRage00]

OR the flip side of that - he could solve world hunger and come up with peace in the middle east and he would still be an idiot, warmongering, redneck according to ya'll. :p

Nah, I would give him his credit if he would do that! :p

[RedRage00]

Nice post from the founder and leading member of idiots in America. I really don't think Bush is a member of your club but you can always wish. lol

Thanks, you rock!

*shakes hands with fans*

[RedRage00]

It's funny that most of yall assume I'm a democrat just because I think Bush is an idiot lol

RR

[yankee]

It's funny that most of yall assume I'm a democrat just because I think Bush is an idiot lol

RR
i still just find it ironic that you still think bush is an idiot. ok, we've all had instances when we said something we didnt mean to. just take kerry for example:

"The vast majority of our imports come from outside the country."
- John F. Kerry

"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."
- John F. Kerry

"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any Governor, and that one word is 'to be prepared'."
- John F. Kerry

"I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments in the future."
- John F. Kerry

"The future will be better tomorrow."
- John F. Kerry

"We're going to have the best educated American people in the world."
- John F. Kerry

"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."
- John F. Kerry

"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a part of Europe."
- John F. Kerry

"Public speaking is very easy."
- John F. Kerry

"A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls."
- John F. Kerry

"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur."
- John F. Kerry

"For NASA, space is still a high priority."
- John F. Kerry

"Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children."
- John F. Kerry

"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."
- John F. Kerry

"It's time for the human race to enter the solar system."
- John F. Kerry

[pack0808]

Yeah and they seem to have amnesia that Clinton bombed Iraq and said Iraq was a big threat and needed to be dealt with before leaving office. Gore, Kerry, France, Russia etc etc etc all agreed and said they were a huge threat with wmd's. They had used them before on their own people if you remember? It is amazing how they can just all of the sudden change their opinion and get away with it and say it was only Bush's idea and his made up war and it was all about oil. Just proves how gullable some of the American people are these days when politicians can conveniently change their stance without any consequences.

[mojotrain]

It's funny that most of yall assume I'm a democrat just because I think Bush is an idiot lol

RR


No! I don't think your a democrat. Democrats are of Roosevelt and Truman. If you or your type would answer the questions that I posted above then we could debate this issue. Your group dosen't support baby killing??? Do you want to talk about that? Do you know anything about WWI, WWII. Korea, Viet Nam? Do you have any notion as to where we would be if these democrats hadn't had the balls to protect America? Harry S. a real democrat dropped a bomb and It ended a lot of peoples lives. But it saved the country your living in now and saved a lot of lives including some of your past gene pool.

You and yours have stolen a name from a truly American Party and held it over yourselves and will do so until you destroy the America of the past. Your no Democrat, No Republican, no Independent you won't come out from under your cloak until you mission is complete.

If you want to debate find some point that is documented that you can defend. Don't stand in the middle of the ring like a big time wrestler with your ears tied in a knot with loud screams and shouts rolling out of your mouth.

But first Answer the Questions! So, I can see if it's worth the effort.
I'm thinking at this point you love everthing Bust is doing. You just hate Bush.

You'll find a haven of like thinkers in Northern Calif.

[DragonWatcher]

Well mojo, I'm a democrat, I guess, I don't like the current ones and I plan on those in my generation changing the party back to what it should be. On Iraq, I thought we should have gone, meausures of security. I didn't like the no WMD stuff especially when the war would have been justified by just saying were removing Sadam. I don't think the administration felt they could sell that to the American people, so they played up the suspected WMD card to spike more public interest.

I do however disagree with how ineptly the war has been bungled at times. And I'm not talking about these alleged marine human right violations as you would assume my liberal hippy nature would impose upon the better reasoning of my mind. My problem is we went in and stayed with absolute faith placed on the idea that we would be greeted as liberators and saviours. Iraq, and the people who compose its populace aren't going to go "whooopee were free!". They live in a rigid societal structure that hates freedom, that wants women in thier place, that is intolerant of all other faiths and lets religion dictate what is right before anything else. Freedom isn't gonna be the new fad on it's own. Look at our own western societal history on the evolution of freedom from the early developments of the monarch state, to the first foundings of america, to the evolution of basic human and civil rights. That didn't happen in a day.

My problem with the administrations foreign policy is that they think they're fighting evil people (a.k.a. terrorists) in a form that closely resembles strategies of the cold war. This whack a mole strategy isn't going to work, and its already showing it. Look at the increased number of attacks and insurgents in Iraq. America isn't fighting an evil dictator, and merciless terrorist, were in fight with an outdated dogmatic societal mode of thought that is remeniscent of our own early religious and monarchial thought from the middle ages. No one of you is gonna wake up tomorrow, strap a bomb to your chest and blow your cubicle and office just because you hate it and despise everything it stands for (unless you work at tom thumb, thats understandable). Terrorism has a 100% failure rate, it only inspires others to rally against them, Terrorism hasn't destroyed Israel, nor will it ever, It hasn't defeated the U.S. or Europe, and nor will it ever. This has been perpetuating itself for the last 40 years, yet tomorrow there will still be 5 new people willing, hoping to blow themselves up for this same cause that has yet to yield results. It all stems from their thought, and until that changes the current situation will not change in the Middle East. Freedom isn't going to work if it isn't engrained into the mind of every citizen as not only a good but a necessary thing. And thats not happening now, all they see is the number of stepped up insurgent attacks, the marines, who possibly killed innocents, fallujah decimated. These things are not going to win the war on terror. And thats my hippy liberal mumbo jumbo.

I guess the best way i can explain why I don't like the current administration is like Longview's football team from last year. They had so much talent, and so much potential, but they screwed up horrificly.

Oh and to whoever said if you want to watch unbiased news watch fox? Fox is about unbiased as Southlake Carroll is racially diverse. a 100:1 Conservative liberal ratio doesn't get rid of a bias, as all news is inherently bias unless witnessed firsthand by the viewer.

[toonman]

In the Chronicle this morning was an article about Dixie Chicks, their new albumn, and the lack of airplay the singles are receiving. It gave examples of a station in Conroe, one in Houston, and another one in Dallas I believe, that initially played the first single and were innundated by complaints about playing a song by the group that denounced Pres Bush and his Texas heritage. The programming directors collectively said it's just not worth the complaints we get to air the music that the once popular , now controversial band sings.
One station that said they play the music often and without complaint- you guessed it, the main country station in Austin. If silence is approval, then i would assume many more of their listeners agree with the Dixie Chicks' point of view.
it's nice to see freedom of speech complemented by freedom of listening...I can promise you, if they come on, even the old songs that I liked, I change the station immediately. I will not buy their stuff. they can give concerts at WNBA games and Democratic conventions for the rest of their careers, 'cause that's the only people that give a rip about them.

Don't you mean "Dixie *****es"

[KattTx]

Nah, I would give him his credit if he would do that! :p


Whew... there for a minute I thought you were unreasonable. ;) Just kidding... :D

[RedRage00]

Gooooooooooooood bye Earl! :eek:

[mojotrain]

Dragonwatcher, You seem to be a lot closer be being of the old democatic party than rage but your still not there. I'm for any President keeping bombs out of America be it by thugs and gangs in Detriot or Osamas followers and I don't care how its done. Because if that can't be done, nothing else matters.
They can listen in on my telephone calls or what ever they want to do, for now, to keep these people out of my house. I'm glad they are fighting some place else.

Your party has had a chance to take care of any problem that now faces Bush. They didn't! Do you have a solution or are you one that just tells people whats wrong? What is you stance on Iraq, Iran, Hurricane protection,
prayer in school or public places, gas prices, politicans that drive off of bridges killings others with no punishment, Presidents that have on the job sex?

So what would you have your president do in each of these problem areas, or is it just you don't like it the way it now is. Who is your cantidate give us a chance to measure he or she.

I don't totally agree with Bush. I think his and the senates solution to Mexico is absoluty inept. It's a part of homeland security to me.

I don't know what you want. But outdated, old fashion thoughts or Ideas has not created the drive by shootings, mothers killing their children, pro stars spitting on fans or attacting them, kids blowing up other kids in schools, armed police in schools, gangs making it unsafe to go on to the street.
This has been incubated and brought forth by the I generation, the me generation. The ones who say if its fun, do it, and a liberal judge will free you and it will be backed up by the ACLUs interpitation of some amendement.

So, my liberal adversary, who do you support and how will he or she handle the above problems? Convience me, I may join.

P.S would you or please, some one tell me liberals thoughts on, WWI, WWII Korea, Viet nam. That is, should we have taken part in them? Why can't you answer these questions?

[drgnbkr]

Dragonwatcher, You seem to be a lot closer be being of the old democatic party than rage but your still not there. I'm for any President keeping bombs out of America be it by thugs and gangs in Detriot or Osamas followers and I don't care how its done. Because if that can't be done, nothing else matters.
They can listen in on my telephone calls or what ever they want to do, for now, to keep these people out of my house. I'm glad they are fighting some place else.

Your party has had a chance to take care of any problem that now faces Bush. They didn't! Do you have a solution or are you one that just tells people whats wrong? What is you stance on Iraq, Iran, Hurricane protection,
prayer in school or public places, gas prices, politicans that drive off of bridges killings others with no punishment, Presidents that have on the job sex?

So what would you have your president do in each of these problem areas, or is it just you don't like it the way it now is. Who is your cantidate give us a chance to measure he or she.

I don't totally agree with Bush. I think his and the senates solution to Mexico is absoluty inept. It's a part of homeland security to me.

I don't know what you want. But outdated, old fashion thoughts or Ideas has not created the drive by shootings, mothers killing their children, pro stars spitting on fans or attacting them, kids blowing up other kids in schools, armed police in schools, gangs making it unsafe to go on to the street.
This has been incubated and brought forth by the I generation, the me generation. The ones who say if its fun, do it, and a liberal judge will free you and it will be backed up by the ACLUs interpitation of some amendement.

So, my liberal adversary, who do you support and how will he or she handle the above problems? Convience me, I may join.

P.S would you or please, some one tell me liberals thoughts on, WWI, WWII Korea, Viet nam. That is, should we have taken part in them? Why can't you answer these questions?


What he said!

[GoOwls]

If I might expand on what mojotrain said just a bit?

The military by engaging the terrorists on their own soil, is keeping them from doing the same over here on our soil. They have proven they can and will do it. It's nothing short of a miracle that there hasn't been some sort of attack here since 9-11. The main reason is that the military is forcing them to defend their own place first.....they don't have the time, men, or financial resources and equipment to fight on both theaters. We may have lost over 2,000 soldiers, but how many innocent civilians have been saved by them taking the battle to them. It would be so easy for them to rig cars bombs, suicide bombs, and IED's and take this to our soil. It will come to a point some day that public gathering will be discontinued as it is too much of a target for terrorists. No HS football games, etc. It will happen someday, it's just too easy to do. Our military presence is delaying that from happening.

Also, for the Democrats or Liberals who love to say that Bush is a fool and a war hawk and getting us in an unwarrented war, let's review the last century and what party was in power when the wars were started.

WWII - Democrat Roosevelt was the president.
Atomic Bombs dropped on Japan - Democrat Truman was the president.
Korean Conflict - Democrat Truman was the president.
Vietnam Conflict - Democrat Kennedy and/or Johnson (depending how you look at it) was the president.
Iraq War I - Bush I
Iraq War II - Bush II

You better step out of that glass house before you chunk those rocks.

[slorch]

I love how all of the sudden everybody wants to interview the chicksy dix.
The public in general really is a puppet moved at the whim of Madison avenue, Nashville, Hollywood, and big entertainment. I absolutely will not buy their stuff. But it is amazing how there was such pushback against them, and they want us to forget what happened. I can forgive, but not to some arrogant airheaded group that has no remorse. The music industry is basically saying this is what we have and you'll like it!
I am saying, no matter how much you put it on- I won't play the game.
this goes for Rosie O'Donnell, All of the supposed reality shows- which are far from their genre's name, and almost all of the news broadcasts today which are little more than op-ed pages on the TV. There is so much crap out there served up as entertainment and news- the sad thing is that it is creeping into the sportsworld too. I watch sports because it is unscripted, unless it's NBA, and it really does show real human emotions and efforts.It really makes going to live games even more special.
Pudge Hefflefinger, where are you?

[mojotrain]

I love how all of the sudden everybody wants to interview the chicksy dix.
The public in general really is a puppet moved at the whim of Madison avenue, Nashville, Hollywood, and big entertainment. I absolutely will not buy their stuff. But it is amazing how there was such pushback against them, and they want us to forget what happened. I can forgive, but not to some arrogant airheaded group that has no remorse. The music industry is basically saying this is what we have and you'll like it!
I am saying, no matter how much you put it on- I won't play the game.
this goes for Rosie O'Donnell, All of the supposed reality shows- which are far from their genre's name, and almost all of the news broadcasts today which are little more than op-ed pages on the TV. There is so much crap out there served up as entertainment and news- the sad thing is that it is creeping into the sportsworld too. I watch sports because it is unscripted, unless it's NBA, and it really does show real human emotions and efforts.It really makes going to live games even more special.
Pudge Hefflefinger, where are you?

drgn, Go Owls and slorch, Our football is miles apart but for the most important of anything, we are together.

It's so obivious when one of the guys carry and hide behine the democrat flag. They absolutly hate Buch which I suppose is o.k but the thing you can read is that everything they know about America is what Jane Fonda, Mike Morris, The dixie chicks,ABC,CBS, CNN,ABC want them to know! From these sources they gleen their world and USA history. But in the new democrats efforts to dumb down America they only hear one side. Consequently they can not or won't answer any questions that are put before them. They only know how to casterate every thing the Bush adm. attempts. and they think every one else is dumbed down to the point that if media puts it out it's gospel.

They don't answer quetions for one of two reasons. They haven't been told how to answer or if they say they agree with our entering the other wars, they can't say this war is wrong or if they say they disagree with the other wars they are admitting to having ideas of what they want from America other than what it has been for 200 plus years.

Example one poster called Bush a baby frier. I offered to discuss baby killing with him, as I would still do. But their was no answer. He had none.......

In closing, any say I have on this matter, To show how radical I am. I no longer watch pro sports nor go to movies. I do not believe in awarding bad behavior. These people are grown and they could perform and still make too much money with accepable behavior. To me college is on the bubble so thats why I am so much passion for high school sports and that to has a few cancers in it although some can be overlooked because of youth. But what you see in these young kids is what you see on tv every sunday.