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garlandowl08
07-21-2005, 02:35 PM
1. Will OU be as "bad" as everyone is predicting, or will they still be a contender, I mean, they did make it to the title game last year...

2. Is Tech going to be as good as everyone is predicting?

jtk1519
07-21-2005, 06:44 PM
1. Will OU be as "bad" as everyone is predicting, or will they still be a contender, I mean, they did make it to the title game last year...

2. Is Tech going to be as good as everyone is predicting?

Yes and Yes.

The land thieves have so much to replace. Their Heisman winning QB, 3 of 5 linemen, 4 WRs, FB and the TE as well as 3 of 4 on the D-line, 1 LB and 2 of 4 DBs. You cant expect a whole lot from a team that has lost that much. On top of that, the had a terrible Spring. None of their QBs did anything. Most didnt even complete 50% of their passes and they threw a lot more INTs than TDs. They have some tough road games including UCLA, Nebraska and Tech. Mobilhoma wont be near as good as they have been. They'll probably lose 3 or 4 games, but they'll be good once all these young kids get some experience.

Tech should be good just because they have about as any a schedule as you can have in the Big XII South. Their OOC schedule is so weak it would rank behind a lot of Div. II on a strength of schedule scale. They also get aggy and the land thieves at home. I wouldnt be surprised if Tech finished the season with just 1 or 2 losses.

LeanderLions3033
07-21-2005, 07:00 PM
Yes and no

I think Tech will be about where they are every year. 3rd or 4th in the big 12. Thats no improvement from the other years.

wide-e-wide
07-21-2005, 07:36 PM
Not sure about Tech...I will guarantee that they will pass the ball a whooooooooooooooooooole lot...and will not have much as far as defense goes.

ou?....3rd in the Big XII---
bold prediction...aggy and ou finish with same record, and both have a loss to
THE University of Texas.

dragonsdaddy
07-21-2005, 07:51 PM
wide, back away from the tall boy and try to clear your mind. did mack get fired and i didn't hear about it?

wide-e-wide
07-21-2005, 09:50 PM
Hey how did you know I was drinkin' a tall boy?
Nope...Mack is still there and so is Vince Young.
Texas will win the Big XII this year...write it down and
take it to the bank. I doubt Young will win the Heisman though...

LeanderLions3033
07-22-2005, 12:12 AM
The heismen usually ends up being somebody you dont expect (except for last year) but i think that whoever wins between OU and UT, their main men will win the heismen (Adrian Peterson, and Vince Young).

TechGuy07
07-22-2005, 02:19 AM
No and Yes

Tech will have a better QB, better receivers, the D will improve, and the OL will gel. I fully believe Tech can be blOU and aggsy. Loss at UT.

OU loses a lot and will "reload" but takes a L feom UT and Tech.

Wide, can I smoke some of what you're smoking? I mean it makes you think aTm will finish 2nd...thats some pretty good stuff.

garlandowl08
07-22-2005, 09:55 AM
No one gives any respect to the Ags...

jtk1519
07-22-2005, 11:12 AM
No one gives any respect to the Ags...

aggy hasnt earned any respect.

pack0808
07-22-2005, 11:48 AM
the aggies have not earned any respect?? it seems like texas fans have short memories and this is coming a guy that cheers for texas when the longhorns and aggies meet. i am thinking of changing that considering lufkin has so many players at a&m and i have no true loyalties eiither way. the texas fans that constantly put down my beloved lufkin players that happen to be aggies are playing a part also. lol it is really starting to irritate me. ;)


going back 20 years unless i added it up wrong the aggies are 12-9 vs texas and the aggies when on a stretch were they were 10-1 :eek: vs texas in 84 to 94 and they had 6 game winning streak vs texas in that period. i know texas is on a 5 game winning streak vs the ags now but it seems yall have a very short memory of how it just was not too far back. :rolleyes: all i am saying is you better be thankful and you need to keep acting like a&m is such a horrible program considering they are up 12-9 vs texas in the last 20 to 21 years of football. it just does not make any sense?? does the hatred of the aggies make texas fans that blind to the historical facts when they act like a&m is a garbage program?? yes texas has the edge right now but that could all change quickly if you are going by history.

pack0808
07-22-2005, 12:03 PM
wow!! i did not realize a&m put 35 up on oklahoma while texas had a fat goose egg vs oklahoma last year. texas definitely has the edge on the aggies head to head in recent history but a&m sure has played oklahoma a lot better then texas lately besides the 2003 thrashing oklahoma gave the aggies.

The_BreezeLP
07-22-2005, 12:41 PM
Mack Brown is a sellout, when he replaced a bona-fide leader like Major Applewhite with a not even soso QB like Simms just because his dad donated a library or something he lost my respect, I hope UT loses every game until they FINALLY FIRE HIS !##@#@# BUTT, he not only sold out his team he cheated his fans out of a probable national championship.I used to be a loyal Longhorn fan, No more. Go Aggies and Tech, and as far as OU having to replace Jason White, I personally feel that he was no Heisman candidate much less a winner, if I had the talent around me that he had I could have done as well if not better. My prediction (as well as my hopes) Texas will never beat OU while Mack Brown is at the helm

><>Philippians 3:13-14<><

pack0808
07-22-2005, 12:49 PM
hey breezelp, i do not think any true loyal longhorn fan would cheer for the aggies just because they disagreed with a coaching decision a few years back. right before mack got there, texas was average to mediocre in most years. he now has them winning at least 10 games a year and they are almost always in the top 10. you should be thanking mack not downing him if you look at the results. call it recruiting and not coaching if you will but mack brown has put texas back on the map in college football and you longhorn fans should be thankful!! no way you were a true loyal longhorn fan. most longhorn's would roll over in their grave before they cheered for the ags.

The_BreezeLP
07-22-2005, 01:14 PM
It speaks of the mans character, I hate it for Vince who is a real talent but not NFL QB material as well as all the other Longhorns but I cannot support the man, I am holding out for the future.If you don't understand that I am sorry.I was a fan of ALL Texas teams, but I used to favor UT in contest between them and another in state team. Also I may add that being a "DEVOUT" Lufkin Panther fan I have to lean toward the Aggies these days because for the most part UT ignores us. Go Reggie Go Javorskie etc.. Go Aggies

pack0808
07-22-2005, 03:35 PM
ut does not ignore lufkin players. several lufkin players including reggie mcneal, mckinner dixon, aaron darks, tyson kirksey, javorski lane all had offers from texas recently. they just chose to go to another div1a school. reggie, javorski, and mckinner could have basically went any school they wanted to in the united states and played football on a full scholarship. they were all GIANT blue chip recruits. i am probably going to cheer for a&m this year vs texas for the first time in my life because of all the panthers that are on the aggies.

rattlerbacker
07-22-2005, 04:21 PM
[QUOTE=The_BreezeLP]Mack Brown is a sellout, when he replaced a bona-fide leader like Major Applewhite with a not even soso QB like Simms just because his dad donated a library or something he lost my respect.....[QUOTE]


You really ought to get your facts straight before you get so personally PO'd

FACT: Phil Simms did not donate a library or anything else to UT. Phil wanted Chris to go to Tennessee, it was Chris' decision to change his commitment to Texas.

FACT: Yeah, Major was a great leader but there was no way Texas was going to win a MNC with him after he tore his knees up. Doubtful he would have lasted a season. Texas didn't have the O-line or overall D to win a MNC those years anyway, no matter who was QB.

FACT: Soso QB Simms only ended up with the second most wins in UT history next to Bobby Layne. Had he been able to redshirt......there was no other QB on the roster when Major got hurt his freshman year so he played instead of redshirting.....he would be the winningest QB in UT history.

Its interesting that Major was so upset with the way he was treated at UT that he spent two years here as a graduate assistant after he came back and finished his degree.

Anyway, feel free to stay personally upset but you probably want to get your facts straight if you want to be given any credibility. Sounds like an aggie quoting the party line to me anyway.

wide-e-wide
07-22-2005, 06:06 PM
wow!! i did not realize a&m put 35 up on oklahoma while texas had a fat goose egg vs oklahoma last year. texas definitely has the edge on the aggies head to head in recent history but a&m sure has played oklahoma a lot better then texas lately besides the 2003 thrashing oklahoma gave the aggies.


There are some things that true friends shouldn't discuss. This is one of them. If you continue to post about aggy....without saying how much aggy sucks....I will be forced to investigate the history of the Iowa Hawkeyes...and surely at some point I can find a spot that hurts......stop it!
You know I love you like a brother............but you have to stop....RIGHT NOW....please.

dragonfootballfan
07-23-2005, 12:01 AM
the aggies have not earned any respect?? it seems like texas fans have short memories and this is coming a guy that cheers for texas when the longhorns and aggies meet. i am thinking of changing that considering lufkin has so many players at a&m and i have no true loyalties eiither way. the texas fans that constantly put down my beloved lufkin players that happen to be aggies are playing a part also. lol it is really starting to irritate me. ;)


going back 20 years unless i added it up wrong the aggies are 12-9 vs texas and the aggies when on a stretch were they were 10-1 :eek: vs texas in 84 to 94 and they had 6 game winning streak vs texas in that period. i know texas is on a 5 game winning streak vs the ags now but it seems yall have a very short memory of how it just was not too far back. :rolleyes: all i am saying is you better be thankful and you need to keep acting like a&m is such a horrible program considering they are up 12-9 vs texas in the last 20 to 21 years of football. it just does not make any sense?? does the hatred of the aggies make texas fans that blind to the historical facts when they act like a&m is a garbage program?? yes texas has the edge right now but that could all change quickly if you are going by history.
Two things in records mean something recent history which is what I like of the last 5 years with a lot of emphasis on the most recent game and the all time records which Texas has dominated. Don't even try to say that ATM is even close to Texas in terms of Success

jtk1519
07-23-2005, 12:32 AM
going back 20 years unless i added it up wrong the aggies are 12-9 vs texas and the aggies when on a stretch were they were 10-1 :eek: vs texas in 84 to 94 and they had 6 game winning streak vs texas in that period. i know texas is on a 5 game winning streak vs the ags now but it seems yall have a very short memory of how it just was not too far back. :rolleyes: all i am saying is you better be thankful and you need to keep acting like a&m is such a horrible program considering they are up 12-9 vs texas in the last 20 to 21 years of football. it just does not make any sense?? does the hatred of the aggies make texas fans that blind to the historical facts when they act like a&m is a garbage program?? yes texas has the edge right now but that could all change quickly if you are going by history.

That goes both ways. Have you ever looked at the all time record between Texas and the land thieves? Go check it out and maybe then folks wont be so quick to spout off crap about a stupid 5 game win streak that Mobilhoma has over Texas. ;)

wide-e-wide
07-23-2005, 01:09 AM
For any man to look at the entire stats and even try to compare UT
and aggy.....is laughable.
UT has them in every catagory........
except for Meat Judging.....Crotch Grabbing....and leaving after the 2nd quarter....

LarryFine
07-23-2005, 07:31 AM
The answer to the original questions depends on who you talk to. OU is picked to tie for 1st to 3rd in the South, while Tech is picked to tie for 1st to 4th in the South. OU will lose 2 Big 12 games minimum & that would be a bad year for them. Tech has the possibility to improve their lot in the Big 12 and should lose 2 games minimum.

The biggest problem with OU is none of their super stud blue chip QBs are stepping up. I still have them the South top dog though.

For Tech, it all depends on if spanking Cal in the Holiday Bowl really was the mental break through we keep hearing it was. Our D still worries me a bit, but it did improve somewhat last season and shows signs of further improvement.

BreezeLB, I disagree on why Mack Brown replaced Applewhite with Simms. Applewhite already peaked at being a great QB but wasn't going to win the Big 12, so Mack rolled the dice with Simms. It didn't work and I had my doubts at the time, but it was the smart move, at least in my opinion.

jtk1519
07-23-2005, 11:00 AM
going back 20 years unless i added it up wrong the aggies are 12-9 vs texas and the aggies when on a stretch were they were 10-1 :eek: vs texas in 84 to 94 and they had 6 game winning streak vs texas in that period. i know texas is on a 5 game winning streak vs the ags now but it seems yall have a very short memory of how it just was not too far back. :rolleyes: all i am saying is you better be thankful and you need to keep acting like a&m is such a horrible program considering they are up 12-9 vs texas in the last 20 to 21 years of football. it just does not make any sense?? does the hatred of the aggies make texas fans that blind to the historical facts when they act like a&m is a garbage program?? yes texas has the edge right now but that could all change quickly if you are going by history.

BTW pack, since you're not an aggy fan, I wont slam you for that comment (though I have wanted to since you posted it). There is a reason aggy had a lot of those wins over Texas. There is a reason the won the SWC and went to the Cotton Bowl and it was the same reason aggy was put on probation for a couple of years. Jackie Sherrill was about as crooked as they come. His cheating brought aggy success for a time, but they have paid for it sense.


Sherrill’s rebuilding project, which had produced three consecutive SWC titles, came to an ugly end in 1988 when the football program was penalized for a handful of violations that included improper employment and financial aid, extra benefits to student-athletes, improper recruiting and lack of institutional control.

Another poud aggy tradition (http://www.theeagle.com/aandmnews/anniversary/2tarnishedreputation.htm)

wide-e-wide
07-23-2005, 11:31 AM
BTW pack, since you're not an aggy fan, I wont slam you for that comment (though I have wanted to since you posted it). There is a reason aggy had a lot of those wins over Texas. There is a reason the won the SWC and went to the Cotton Bowl and it was the same reason aggy was put on probation for a couple of years. Jackie Sherrill was about as crooked as they come. His cheating brought aggy success for a time, but they have paid for it sense.



Another poud aggy tradition (http://www.theeagle.com/aandmnews/anniversary/2tarnishedreputation.htm)

Jackie cheated? naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

jtk1519
07-23-2005, 12:45 PM
Jackie cheated? naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

I was shocked to learn that too. ;)

wide-e-wide
07-23-2005, 03:44 PM
What next? I guess your gonna try and tell me that Switzer was crooked too.

jtk1519
07-23-2005, 05:46 PM
What next? I guess your gonna try and tell me that Switzer was crooked too.

Let's not even joke about such things.

garlandowl08
07-23-2005, 11:27 PM
How does every college football thread end up in a debate...I just wnated to know people's opinions on next season in the Big 12!

wide-e-wide
07-23-2005, 11:38 PM
Let's not even joke about such things.

I swear if you tell me that Tarkanian was violating rules a UNLV I am soooo
through.

LarryFine
07-24-2005, 08:04 AM
Jackie cheated. I am always amazed at the free pass RC gets at A&M. He was the top assistant the last time Jackie was caught, plus A&M was hit with probation twice under RC. Could have been worse. A booster was caught giving money to a player while they were on probation. That is what SMU got the death penalty for. SMU and A&M are the two most penalized programs in NCAA.

Before anyone gets too wild with cheating talk, remember the first time Jackie led A&M to probation, Rice was the only SWC team NOT on probation. So unless you are an Owl fan, glass houses.

dragonsdaddy
07-24-2005, 10:05 AM
having played for one of those "clean" owls teams, we were always told that until we start winning against some of the big boys(see smu) we will never be on probation regardless of what we did. that was smu's only fault. they started beating the top dogs regularly.

ktchamp97
07-24-2005, 10:27 AM
1. Will OU be as "bad" as everyone is predicting, or will they still be a contender, I mean, they did make it to the title game last year...

2. Is Tech going to be as good as everyone is predicting?

1. OU will not be "bad". Until my Horns beat them, OU is the class of the Big 12.

2. Yes. I think Texas Tech could finish 2nd in the South. They will beat one, if not two, of the Big 3 (OU, Texas, A&M). Imagine the success they could have this year and in the future if Graham Harrell wins the starting job at some point this season...the last few years, their starting QB has been a RS Sr....Graham will be a soph this fall.

TechGuy07
07-24-2005, 12:31 PM
GH won't be a soph...He'll be a RS FR.

jtk1519
07-24-2005, 02:04 PM
Jackie cheated. I am always amazed at the free pass RC gets at A&M. He was the top assistant the last time Jackie was caught, plus A&M was hit with probation twice under RC. Could have been worse. A booster was caught giving money to a player while they were on probation. That is what SMU got the death penalty for. SMU and A&M are the two most penalized programs in NCAA.

Before anyone gets too wild with cheating talk, remember the first time Jackie led A&M to probation, Rice was the only SWC team NOT on probation. So unless you are an Owl fan, glass houses.

The toughest penalties came during RC's reign. Aggy was banned from a lot of stuff including playing on TV. That is one of the reasons they can only sell out Pyle for one or two games year. Those sanctions killed their support.

Despite all that though, I always like RC. Dont ask me why.

farmerfan
07-24-2005, 03:34 PM
The ags were put on probation during RC's reign, however it was for things that happend during the mid to late 80's under Jackie, RC actually cleaned the program up and brought some integrity back to college station, however if we are going to get on Gun Smoke (switzer) and Jackie, lets not forget Daddy Darrell was not exactly a model coach either, I do recall some controversy involving african americans under his watch, the thing is all schools cheat, the reason SMU got the death penalty is because they are not a Texas or A&M, its the same reason Alabama did not get the death penalty. Giving the death penalty to one of the biggest schools in America and a program that is among that top 15-20 all time ie A&M, would not benefit the NCAA in any way. Also im sure if you look at Texas then and now you would find some crooked things going on, I have always wondered why athletes dont leave Texas early for the NFL, ie Benson, Johnson and Roy and Ricky when the money was there? not saying they do cheat or anything, it just has always crossed my mind.

pack0808
07-24-2005, 09:48 PM
hey wide i am not trying to get on you but only some of your longhorn fan friends that speak bs. you can look at the iowa hawks history and you will find plenty of bad seasons and plenty of bad losses to rival teams, but at least i can admit those losses and not say that our rivals won because they were cheating. :rolleyes: embarrassing excuse is all that is. i am sure all programs have always played by the rules at all times. :rolleyes: give me a break!!

wide-e-wide
07-24-2005, 10:47 PM
You are absolutely right. I will never use that excuse. OU whooped
that @ss...Simple as that. The game last year wasn't as bad...but there
were a couple of really ugly ones before that.

I'm sure EVERY school cheats is some form. Just like everybody speeds...
not just the ones you see being pulled over. They were just unlucky enough to get caught.

pack0808
07-24-2005, 11:00 PM
exactly!!

LarryFine
07-25-2005, 06:35 AM
ktchamp97, A&M is not one of the Big 12 Big 3. There is only a big 2 in the South. In the 9 years of the Big 12, A&M has won ONE more game than Tech has, has a losing record against Tech, and finished behind Tech in the South standings 5 of 9 times. A&M won the South twice and the Big 12 once, which gives the obvious edge to A&M over Tech, but hasn't won consistently enough to be considered a conference power or in UT or OU's category.

Tech will most likely beat A&M in Lubbock and should have beat them in Kyle last season. A&M has 3 wins against Tech in Big 12 play and all were at Kyle.

OU being bad, means losing 2 Big 12 games. Oh to see Tech in that category.

farmerfran, that isn't exactly true about RC. Can't blame the paying the player for asummer job in College Station while he was living in Dallas on Jackie. Really can't blame any of RC's issues on Jackie. Nothing changed when Jackie left. The AD stayed and they promoted the top assistant. Jackie made an easy scape goat.

raidercheerdad
07-25-2005, 11:51 AM
You are absolutely right. I will never use that excuse. OU whooped
that @ss...Simple as that. The game last year wasn't as bad...but there
were a couple of really ugly ones before that.

I'm sure EVERY school cheats is some form. Just like everybody speeds...
not just the ones you see being pulled over. They were just unlucky enough to get caught.
I'm really shocked! Next, somebody will probably tell me that they cheat in NASCAR! I don't think I can take it.

LarryFine
07-25-2005, 12:59 PM
having played for one of those "clean" owls teams, we were always told that until we start winning against some of the big boys(see smu) we will never be on probation regardless of what we did. that was smu's only fault. they started beating the top dogs regularly.I have a friend who coached on a SWC team in the 70s. I agree with you 100% but most probably think we are conspiracy theorists and don't really understand how right you really are. Apparently, a lot of coaches began SMU's countdown to probation once they beat UT in Austin 22-6.

SMU and the Rangers are an anomaly to me. DFW will only support a winner, with those 2 exceptions. Dallas got mad when SMU started winning in football but rally behind the Rangers knowing full well each and every year they aren't going to win the pennant.

pack0808
07-25-2005, 03:09 PM
that was cold blooded what they did to smu!!! teams have done much worse since and only get a slap on the wrist. they should have never got the death penalty. it ruined there program and they still have never recovered. i have heard the conspiracy theory about the big boy school's like texas and a&m having a part of trying to bring them down because they were starting to take over the conference. i do not know if it is true or not but i would not doubt it. they did not like it when houston was winning all those games in the swc with ware, klinger and company when they were using the run and shoot. i think they went looking for anything there also. houston was later put on probation. if you look hard enough you will probably be able to find violations in any school. i remember watching a klingler led houston team beat smu 90 something to 7 i think?? it was awful!! it was right after the death penalty. they looked like a poor hs team. it really was sad. i think the cougar passed out from doing pushups that day. lol

farmerfan
07-25-2005, 03:09 PM
Larry
You are wrong, the summer payments were made under Jackies watch, the 94 probation was for violations during the 80's under Jackie.
Also A&M dispite there troubles with Tech, is still among the big 3 in the Big 12, they might not have won consistantly, but they still own 2 division titles and 1 confrence title. Texas has won only 1 more division title than A&M has, and they both have the 1 Big 12 title. So maybe we should just go ahead and say its more like the Big 1,when it comes down to the big 12.
Like it or not, A&M is a team that is well on its way up, this team very easily could win 9-10 games this year, I just think Texas fans refuse to believe that the gap is closing on their 5 year dominance on this state.

I also challenge you to find where RC violated any NCAA rules while head coach, he was as respected a figure in college football as any man during his teim, thats why so many reacted the way they did to his firing. Once he became head coach, that program was cleaned up real quick, he also became head coach due to his loyalty to the A&M program, he was at the school from the early 70's on, way before Jackie ever got there.

farmerfan
07-25-2005, 03:23 PM
Ok, did some research myself, guess one major infraction happend under the watch of slocum, they claim no one in the athletic department knew about it, so i guess you can be the judge.

part of a article from the Eagle newspaper:

• A&M’s most recent major infraction case landed the football program on five years of probation in 1994.

Trying to clean up the outlaw image from the end of the Sherrill reign, the Aggies were rocked by a summer job scandal at a Dallas-area apartment complex owned by A&M booster Warren Gilbert. A&M investigators found that nine athletes were paid $27,800, of which $17,855 was unearned.

The NCAA suspended five football players, giving star running back Greg Hill a five-game suspension.

A&M, found guilty of a lack of institutional control, was barred from postseason play and prohibited from appearing on television in the 1994 season. Those penalties hurt, as the Aggies could not play in the Cotton Bowl despite rolling to a 10-0-1 record, the school’s first undefeated season since Bryant’s 1956 squad.

The university’s investigation found that no members of the A&M athletic department had knowledge of, or were involved in, the job scandal, but it was still a devastating blow for Slocum.

“That was the lowest point in my tenure as a head coach,” Slocum said. “I’ll never get over that. I can’t tell you how disappointing it was.

“It set our program back, too. We were rolling, and then we had a couple of years where we were operating — and recruiting — under a cloud.”

Attempting to escape that cloud’s shadow, A&M officials have pledged strict adherence to NCAA rules. Every A&M coach’s contract contains a clause that allows for suspension or termination if the coach is involved in deliberate or serious violations of NCAA regulations.

dragonsdaddy
07-25-2005, 04:26 PM
i was told that the other 8 swc coaches got together and agreed to beat smu as bad as they could at every opportunity, in payback for their recruiting indiscretions that were well known around the coaching profession. there were stories of meyer leaving a signed hundred dollar bill in place of a calling card and the bidding wars for dickerson, making him higher paid than had he turned pro. the plano coaches knew ron meyer was a phony when he'd schmooz in from his limo in a $2000 suit smoking a $20 dollar cigar, trying to be one of the boys. they tried their best to talk their kids from going there. no, there was never a more deserving recipient of the death penalty than smu. it was the darkest hour in swc history and finalized the downfall and dissolution of the once storied group. damn ron meyer and all the scumrollos who considered that buying a swc crown was just as good as earning one.

pack0808
07-25-2005, 04:43 PM
other school's have made similar infractions and were slapped on the wrist.

LarryFine
07-25-2005, 04:43 PM
farmerfran, RC was not highly respected by everyone. He had respect with Aggies, but not everyone else outside that family did. It is why his big time college coaching days are done. He could be a HC at a D2 school or a DC at a big program. Nobody wants Spike. Nobody wants RC. They are not highly respected coaches today.

I don't want to get in a flame war, but a lot of coaches were "cleared" of wrong doing when everyone knows they knew what was going on. RC was on staff for at least 3 of the 4 times their football program was hit with probation. That is a lot not knowing what is going on.

There are a lot of people like me who don't believe the hear no evil, see no evil defense for the HC and AD. But if it makes you happy, I'll conceed the point in this thread.

farmerfan
07-25-2005, 05:21 PM
there is no need to conceed the point, you actually made me check the facts, which i did not have. You make a valid point about RC being on staff for those infractions, however as a assistant, if you report the head man, then you will be seen as a non-loyal assistant, its kind of a damned if you do damned if you dont situation.
The respect factor was not as far as coaching goes, the integrity that Slocum had was second to none, he actually brought credibility to a A&M program that had never had any. During his reign, their were hardly any off the field problems, with the exception of some drug problems with Toombs, but what school has not had to deal with that?

dragonsdaddy
07-25-2005, 05:42 PM
other school's have made similar infractions and were slapped on the wrist. to the best of my limited knowledge smu was one of if not the most flagrant offender ever. their brazenness got every opposing coach turned against them . it was rm against the world.

rattlerbacker
07-25-2005, 09:03 PM
NOBODY has the past history of recruiting and other violations that SMU had up until they got the partial death penalty in 1987. Check the link below for the major infractions by SMU. They were put on probation in 1958, 1965, 1974, 1976, 1981, 1985 and then got the big one in 1987. The NCAA could have banned football for two years but only banned one season. The biggest reason the NCAA hit SMU so hard was that they continued to pay players after they were put on probation for paying those same players in 1985!

All of their violations are listed at the link. Click whichever one you want to find out about and then click "public report" to get the full report on the violations. As the report in 1985 noted, SMU had at that time been on probation for 11 of the previous 14 years. When the coaching staff decided to keep paying players after 1985, and asked a booster who was banned from contact with the school in 1985 to pay the money, the NCAA had had enough. No school has ever been that brazen about violating the rules, none.


SMU Major Infractions Cases (https://goomer.ncaa.org/wdbctx/LSDBi/LSDBi.MajorInfPackage.SearchAndDisplayList?p_Schoo l1=southern+methodist+university&p_School_Num1=&p_School2=&p_School_Num2=&p_Case_Division=0&p_Date_Radio=1&p_Month1=JAN&p_Day1=1&p_Year1=1953&p_Month2=JUL&p_Day2=25&p_Year2=2005&p_Sport1=MFB&p_SportAndOr_1=0&p_Sport2=Any&p_SportAndOr_2=0&p_Sport3=Any&p_TV_Penalty=10&p_Postseason_Penalty=10&p_Probation_Penalty=10&p_Division=0&p_bylaw_radio1=0&p_Bylaw=0&p_Article=&p_Contains_Clause1=1&p_SearchWords1=&p_Inword1=heading&p_Boolean1=and&p_Contains_Clause2=1&p_SearchWords2=&p_Inword2=heading&p_Boolean2=and&p_Contains_Clause3=1&p_SearchWords3=&p_Inword3=heading&p_Button=Go+Search)

pooch
07-25-2005, 10:36 PM
No one gives any respect to the Ags...

you dang right. Go hug on T. Crosby. :D

wide-e-wide
07-26-2005, 04:56 AM
you dang right. Go hug on T. Crosby. :D
Respect and aggy in the same sentence...bwaaahahahahahaha

Imagine how the sheep must feel.

LarryFine
07-26-2005, 08:36 AM
There is always a scape goat and for A&M, it was Sherrill. It never is one renegade coach or booster, it is the system. RC was part of that system and the fact A&M was placed on probation with RC as an assistant AND head coach pretty much speaks for itself.

RC isn't quite the pillar of respect off the field either. If you respect him or he is a bud, fine. Understand not everyone has the same opinion of RC you do, and that includes Aggies.

rattlebacker, SMU got the death penalty becuase the Governor of Texas was caught up in the mess and helped the NCAA to save his own skin.

jtk1519
07-26-2005, 11:22 AM
It cant all be Jackie's fault (though we all know he was dirty). The article I posted said the aggy program had been in trouble for years, no... decades. It mentioned recruiting violations from Bear Bryant all the way to RC. That's a span of half a century. Violations like that cannot be blamed on one man... they are systemic.

While I concede that every program probably is guilty of some wrong doing here and there, until the NCAA or the school itself finds those infractions and deals with them, everything is just speculation with no factual evidence to support it. Were SMU and aggy just used by the NCAA to "make an example" for the college world to see, or is it possible that their infractions were so numerous and blatant that NCAA had no choice but to hand down a swift and severe punishment?

dragonsdaddy
07-26-2005, 12:13 PM
to some extent, it was a combination, probably. smu was an easy mark, and not the political nightmare to throw under the bus that tamu or later auburn or alabama would have been. but smu was slithering to new depths of sorriness and had been for years, and persisted even after having sanctions upon sanctions hung on them. i guess they never believed there were teeth in that threat. they got just what they deserved.

pooch
07-26-2005, 03:33 PM
to some extent, it was a combination, probably. smu was an easy mark, and not the political nightmare to throw under the bus that tamu or later auburn or alabama would have been. but smu was slithering to new depths of sorriness and had been for years, and persisted even after having sanctions upon sanctions hung on them. i guess they never believed there were teeth in that threat. they got just what they deserved.


It was fun seeing the Pony Express though!

dada
07-26-2005, 03:40 PM
It was fun seeing the Pony Express though!
I had the honor of seeing the pony express right after they got off of probation...against Andre Ware and David Klingler....wasnt pretty. I think that had a trip to South Bend that year also. Lou Holtz was kind....Players would break free and just run out of bounds.

pack0808
07-26-2005, 04:07 PM
I had the honor of seeing the pony express right after they got off of probation...against Andre Ware and David Klingler....wasnt pretty. I think that had a trip to South Bend that year also. Lou Holtz was kind....Players would break free and just run out of bounds.



i was at that houston/smu game also dad!! what was the score 96-14?? or something?? houston could have scored 150 and i am not exaggerating a bit.

wide-e-wide
07-26-2005, 05:18 PM
i was at that houston/smu game also dad!! what was the score 96-14?? or something?? houston could have scored 150 and i am not exaggerating a bit.

Why in the world were you at a UH vs. SMU game...did you lose a bet or something? Or just had roughly 3 hours to kill before you hit the club? hahaha.

If I can find the picture I will post a link. But when I was 10 my aunt bought me a SMU sweatsuit for Christmas...long story short my Mom made me wear it to our family reunion on New Year's eve. In the family picture you can see me laughing and holding up the "hook 'em horns" My Mom was not pleased.
However...my Dad almost pissed himself he was laughing so hard.

farmerfan
07-26-2005, 05:41 PM
I had a similar incident wide, when i was around 9-10, my dad thought it would be funny to get a reaction out of my by getting me a Texas shirt. He had no problem with the school, actually pulled for them on a regular basis, however he knew i did not like them. Well to make a long story short, he loved the reaction when i went and got a pair of scissors and cut the thing up, my mom yelled at me for wasting money, but Dad loved it.

dragonsdaddy
07-26-2005, 05:48 PM
wide, it took quite a bit more than 3 hrs to squeek out 94 pts.

wide-e-wide
07-26-2005, 05:58 PM
wide, it took quite a bit more than 3 hrs to squeek out 94 pts.

I'm sure it did...I bet the cheerleaders were exhausted by the end of the game. Don't the UH cheerleaders do push-ups? Wow....that's bunch of dog-gone push-ups....

dada
07-27-2005, 07:39 AM
i was at that houston/smu game also dad!! what was the score 96-14?? or something?? houston could have scored 150 and i am not exaggerating a bit.
It was 95-21. It was Klinglers coming out party. Ware threw for 400+ yds and 5 TD's in the first half then Klingler came in and threw for almost 500 yds in the second half. I also saw Matt Volger of TCU throw for 690 yds against the cougars.

dada
07-27-2005, 07:41 AM
I'm sure it did...I bet the cheerleaders were exhausted by the end of the game. Don't the UH cheerleaders do push-ups? Wow....that's bunch of dog-gone push-ups....
I dont know if this is a myth or rumor...but I heard that the UH mascot passed out after doing push-up after every score. I loved UH back in the day...The air raid horn got you pumped up.....

pack0808
07-27-2005, 09:20 AM
i mentioned that one earlier also. i heard he passed out too. i know the all of the cheerleaders were helping him do his pushups after houston got in the 70's

dada
07-27-2005, 10:09 AM
i mentioned that one earlier also. i heard he passed out too. i know the all of the cheerleaders were helping him do his pushups after houston got in the 70's
For those who missed it:


http://espn.go.com/classic/s/moment001021ware.html

lonny23
07-31-2005, 05:52 PM
I've been to 2 Cougar games when they got up into the 70's and the mascot always struggled when they got above 50. He probably could've done it by himself, but it looked funnier having the cheerleaders help him.

My uncle was at UH when they beat Tulsa 100-6. He also got a Corvette while he was in college. It was the normal deal where a guy gives you a job and pays too much for nothing and gives you money to make car payments. They never got in trouble for it. Of course Texas and A&M get away with stuff and never did like UH. They conspired to keep them out of the Big 12 and that's how Baylor got in. They also kept them out of the SWC for a long time. The Big 2 wants the players from Dallas and Houston and the best way to do that is to exile them to lesser conferences.

The bad thing about the SMU game in 1989 is that everybody was wondering before the game if UH would score 100. That was Ware's Heisman year and the next year should've been Klingler because he had an even better year.

FootballJunkie
08-02-2005, 01:23 AM
This is to The_BreezeLP. It is funny that Texas fans would call Mack Brown a sellout and talk about his character. No one was talking bad about him when he left North Carolina right before a bowl game and right after he held a news conference saying he would never leave. That in itself should have told you something about his character. That said Mack Brown won't be the reason Texas won't win the National Championship this year it will be Ohio State on the road that will stop those plans.

dragons08
08-02-2005, 01:52 AM
I'm sure it did...I bet the cheerleaders were exhausted by the end of the game. Don't the UH cheerleaders do push-ups? Wow....that's bunch of dog-gone push-ups....
im pretty sure the crew got pretty tired at basically all of our games..all those points... :D

Lufkin_Class_Of_08
08-03-2005, 04:05 PM
Why in the world were you at a UH vs. SMU game...did you lose a bet or something? Or just had roughly 3 hours to kill before you hit the club? hahaha.

i was 2 weeks old when that game happened and my dad and grandfather and uncle and my brother went to the game but i dint cuz i was too young or somthin like that...but i know from my mom that we watched it on tv...im from a family of cougar grads and my grandfather was a rice grad who was a prof at uh so he had season tickets until like 1999

dada
08-03-2005, 04:08 PM
i was 2 weeks old when that game happened and my dad and grandfather and uncle and my brother went to the game but i dint cuz i was too young or somthin like that...but i know from my mom that we watched it on tv...im from a family of cougar grads and my grandfather was a rice grad who was a prof at uh so he had season tickets until like 1999
Geezz, now I REALLY feel old...I was at the Game.The tickets were a gift or a reward..I can't remember if it was a "Weekly Reader" award at school...or I got them free when I biggie sized at Wendy's.