Invasion

[ktCarl]

I don't know about the rest of you guys and gals out there but there were demonstrations here in Houston by the children of illegal aliens protesting about a crackdown on illegal immigration. These kids are talking about 'rights' owed to them from the USA even though they have skirted the law to get here. To add insult to all of this they were waving the flag of Mexico and chanting we will conquer. It would have been easier to listen to them if they were waving the US flag and chanting God bless America. If they love Mexico so much and Mexico is so great they why in h**l are they here? Why don't they just sneak back across the border and enjoy their lives in Mexico?

[drgnbkr]

I don't know about the rest of you guys and gals out there but there were demonstrations here in Houston by the children of illegal aliens protesting about a crackdown on illegal immigration. These kids are talking about 'rights' owed to them from the USA even though they have skirted the law to get here. To add insult to all of this they were waving the flag of Mexico and chanting we will conquer. It would have been easier to listen to them if they were waving the US flag and chanting God bless America. If they love Mexico so much and Mexico is so great they why in h**l are they here? Why don't they just sneak back across the border and enjoy their lives in Mexico?

Amen Carl...I think they have done more harm than good....I've been in the restaurant biz most of my life, and without hispanics, we could'nt operate, but this protest is crap..follow the law or go home!

[Rerun]

I don't know about the rest of you guys and gals out there but there were demonstrations here in Houston by the children of illegal aliens protesting about a crackdown on illegal immigration. These kids are talking about 'rights' owed to them from the USA even though they have skirted the law to get here. To add insult to all of this they were waving the flag of Mexico and chanting we will conquer. It would have been easier to listen to them if they were waving the US flag and chanting God bless America. If they love Mexico so much and Mexico is so great they why in h**l are they here? Why don't they just sneak back across the border and enjoy their lives in Mexico?

Get the **** out of America if you wanna play stupid.

[Miss Kitty]

I totally agree. How can someone who is in our country ILLEGALLY, protest to have rights here? What is worse, how can our government cave to them. They are blessed to be here but they don't even know it. Why spend so much money and effort to catch them at the border if you are going to let them run over us after they get 100 yards in the country. The perfect opportunity to gather and ship back in the last two days, yet nothing. I am like you, it would not have been so bad if they had been praising the USA but they were shouting threats on our soil. This is going to cause nothing but trouble and a bunch of innocent people are going to get hurt.:(

[KT2000]

Why the govt. is worried:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/business/20060307-0706-illegalimmigration.html

Over 12 million illegal immigrants (approx. 56% Mexican) are in this country and that number is only getting bigger.

[LUFPAN]

Massive student protests here in Dallas the last 2 days. The local news media interviewed many of the students. Almost none of them knew the reason they were protesting. They were just happy to have an excuse to leave school. The protest turned pretty ugly around city hall.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/032906dnmetwalkout.6ca74e05.html

[KT2000]

If they were protesting waving American flags, I think it would have obviously had a much more positive impact on perception. The way they are carrying it out paints them in a very negative light.

[LoneRocket]

Why the govt. is worried:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/business/20060307-0706-illegalimmigration.html

Over 12 million illegal immigrants (approx. 56% Mexican) are in this country and that number is only getting bigger.
Yes and as long as Business/Persons hire them for real low wages it is going to get worse. Congress is talking about cracking down on it, but how many of them and their supporters use cheap illegal labor from Latin and South America, Asia and Europe I do not think they are going to do anything about because it might hurt themselves. I wonder when they are going to tighten the Canadian boarder I heard it was easier to cross that boarder than the Mexican boarder. The high-jackers crossed from Canada not Mexico.

[SVite]

I totally agree. How can someone who is in our country ILLEGALLY, protest to have rights here? What is worse, how can our government cave to them. They are blessed to be here but they don't even know it. Why spend so much money and effort to catch them at the border if you are going to let them run over us after they get 100 yards in the country. The perfect opportunity to gather and ship back in the last two days, yet nothing. I am like you, it would not have been so bad if they had been praising the USA but they were shouting threats on our soil. This is going to cause nothing but trouble and a bunch of innocent people are going to get hurt.:(

Amen Sister! They hurting the construction bussiness in Texas also! Texas contractors have sold out to the non tax payers of this country,& are putting more americans in the unemployment lines!

They can get 20 illegals to frame a house that took bread off the table of 4-6 american tax payers! There work is sub par, and for the most part have no pride in there work!

I could go on, and on......and ON!:mad:

[RocklandDragon]

These kids are talking about 'rights' owed to them from the USA even though they have skirted the law to get here. To add insult to all of this they were waving the flag of Mexico and chanting we will conquer. It would have been easier to listen to them if they were waving the US flag and chanting God bless America.

To me, the protests by the students (as mentioned above) I found a little insulting. That's right, insulting. These students ARE American but many embraced Mexico as their home country as if Mexico gave them the grand opportunity and the U.S. is the great devil. See, some leaders of the Hispanic community have bought (or festered) into this radical notion that California, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, and Texas were robbed from Mexico and these states belong to Mexico. Sound silly, doesn't it? I guess the United States is still owned by the United Kingdom. Hell, Mexico is still under Spain's leadership by that logic. That's the main problem with these protests. I'm not even sure it deals with just immigration anymore. Do these protesters know what Mexico is like? Honestly, I believe many of these students just don't realize the social-economic structure of Mexico and how corrupt the government of Mexico is. My aunt and uncle saw this first hand in Mexico and it's not pretty.

However, the generalization of all the protests, I cannot agree with. During the massive protest in Los Angeles, many Mexicans/Mexican-Americans were displaying Old Glory with pride and passion. 500,000 people and was very respectful--no one was looking to cause a major riot or disturbance. Also, it is entirely understandable, why people from Mexico sneak into the U.S. They want a better life for their family. If you have ever visited El Paso, look to the South of the Rio Grande River. Seeing the shacks and open spaces for waste is just a sample of how many live in Mexico--and how the government of Mexico is more than happy to be rid of you. Mexican officials don't give out maps and ways to sneak into the U.S. to help you out. How does that taste to the protesters who cherish Mexico--they don't want you there. No, really they don't.

[As far as the immigration reform bill that started all this controversy--it will pass--with some compromises. There will be some Guest Worker program that could allow illegals to become U.S. citizens--many have been here for so long and are working.]

To me, there is nothing wrong displaying the Mexican flag and having Mexican pride. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with that. It great to have pride in your native country and/or embrace your heritage. In the Midwest, you will see many people display Polish pride or in the Northeast embrace their Italian heritage. What you won't see from these groups is the utter disrespect that the pro-Mexico radical leaders have shown to the U.S. I know where my education came from. I know where my paycheck comes from. I know where I enjoy my high school football. I know that the history of the U.S.A. (and Texas)hasn't been all roses and bluebonnets toward Hispanics. Work still has to be done and I want to be a part of that. At least, we can use the U.S. setup to fight for rights and correct wrongs.

Did Mexico give all these things to me--NO!!

Sorry for the long essay (OK, I not really sorry), but I've said what I needed to say.

:eek:

[ktCarl]

Probably more than half of those protesters have never been to Mexico.

[lonny23]

I don't know about the rest of you guys and gals out there but there were demonstrations here in Houston by the children of illegal aliens protesting about a crackdown on illegal immigration. These kids are talking about 'rights' owed to them from the USA even though they have skirted the law to get here. To add insult to all of this they were waving the flag of Mexico and chanting we will conquer. It would have been easier to listen to them if they were waving the US flag and chanting God bless America. If they love Mexico so much and Mexico is so great they why in h**l are they here? Why don't they just sneak back across the border and enjoy their lives in Mexico?
They're not going back because life is better here. I've always said people that don't like something should leave (if they can). It's like Alec Baldwin, who was supposed to move if Bush got elected. He never moved. No, I don't like seeing people who choose to live in the U.S. show their loyalty to Mexico. The truth is we won't do anything about it because our politicians want to get reelected. Doing the right thing and reaping rewards is a lost art in this country. In politics, it's all about positioning oneself to try to please everybody, which doesn't work.

[lonny23]

I totally agree. How can someone who is in our country ILLEGALLY, protest to have rights here? What is worse, how can our government cave to them. They are blessed to be here but they don't even know it. Why spend so much money and effort to catch them at the border if you are going to let them run over us after they get 100 yards in the country. The perfect opportunity to gather and ship back in the last two days, yet nothing. I am like you, it would not have been so bad if they had been praising the USA but they were shouting threats on our soil. This is going to cause nothing but trouble and a bunch of innocent people are going to get hurt.:(
We'd have a lot less illegals if we shot people. I could even live with having the people in the country if we didn't give them the same rights as everybody else. I know people want to come here because life is better, but it's sad when they show no loyalty to the country that made their life better.

[Miss Kitty]

I agree that being proud of our heritage is a great thing. I am very proud of mine. But, I am a Texan, and an American first. Being proud is one thing, but complaining that your rights are being kept from you when in fact you have no rights as an American citizen is just nuts. It would be nuts no matter where you are from.

But here in Houston, the kids that they are interviewing, don't even have a clue what they are protesting for. Yet they sound like a bunch of revolutionaries. If they want to revolt, then take that energy and go back to Mexico and revolt against the corrupt government in the country they are so proud of.

I love the Hispanic influence that is a part of this great state. I just hate that innocent people are going to get hurt in this. I am glad that, so far, the demonstrations have been peaceful.

[lonny23]

Yes and as long as Business/Persons hire them for real low wages it is going to get worse. Congress is talking about cracking down on it, but how many of them and their supporters use cheap illegal labor from Latin and South America, Asia and Europe I do not think they are going to do anything about because it might hurt themselves. I wonder when they are going to tighten the Canadian boarder I heard it was easier to cross that boarder than the Mexican boarder. The high-jackers crossed from Canada not Mexico.
Yes, cheap labor has taken away some jobs, but I also know many people in America don't want to do cheap jobs. I bet more Americans would do cheap jobs if they took away welfare, but that would take away votes from the politicians. It's a vicious cycle.:mad:

[lonny23]

Why the govt. is worried:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/business/20060307-0706-illegalimmigration.html

Over 12 million illegal immigrants (approx. 56% Mexican) are in this country and that number is only getting bigger.
I bet there is more than 12 million illegals in the U.S. There has to be a LOT in the Rio Grande Valley and around El Paso. Look where they set up Border Patrol stations in Texas. If you can get across, you're home-free and there are a lot more houses in the Valley than verified population.

[lonny23]

To me, the protests by the students (as mentioned above) I found a little insulting. That's right, insulting. These students ARE American but many embraced Mexico as their home country as if Mexico gave them the grand opportunity and the U.S. is the great devil. See, some leaders of the Hispanic community have bought (or festered) into this radical notion that California, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, and Texas were robbed from Mexico and these states belong to Mexico. Sound silly, doesn't it? I guess the United States is still owned by the United Kingdom. Hell, Mexico is still under Spain's leadership by that logic. That's the main problem with these protests. I'm not even sure it deals with just immigration anymore. Do these protesters know what Mexico is like? Honestly, I believe many of these students just don't realize the social-economic structure of Mexico and how corrupt the government of Mexico is. My aunt and uncle saw this first hand in Mexico and it's not pretty.

However, the generalization of all the protests, I cannot agree with. During the massive protest in Los Angeles, many Mexicans/Mexican-Americans were displaying Old Glory with pride and passion. 500,000 people and was very respectful--no one was looking to cause a major riot or disturbance. Also, it is entirely understandable, why people from Mexico sneak into the U.S. They want a better life for their family. If you have ever visited El Paso, look to the South of the Rio Grande River. Seeing the shacks and open spaces for waste is just a sample of how many live in Mexico--and how the government of Mexico is more than happy to be rid of you. Mexican officials don't give out maps and ways to sneak into the U.S. to help you out. How does that taste to the protesters who cherish Mexico--they don't want you there. No, really they don't.

[As far as the immigration reform bill that started all this controversy--it will pass--with some compromises. There will be some Guest Worker program that could allow illegals to become U.S. citizens--many have been here for so long and are working.]

To me, there is nothing wrong displaying the Mexican flag and having Mexican pride. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with that. It great to have pride in your native country and/or embrace your heritage. In the Midwest, you will see many people display Polish pride or in the Northeast embrace their Italian heritage. What you won't see from these groups is the utter disrespect that these radical leaders have shown to the U.S. I know where my education came from. I know where my paycheck comes from. I know where I enjoy my high school football. I know that the history of the U.S.A. (and Texas)hasn't been all roses and bluebonnets toward Hispanics. Work still has to be done and I want to be a part of that. At least, we can use the U.S. setup to fight for rights and correct wrongs.

Did Mexico give all these things to me--NO!!

Sorry for the long essay (OK, I not really sorry), but I've said what I needed to say.

:eek:The way I look at it, we got this state and the other states fair and sqaure. We fought Mexico and won. To the victors go the spoils. We haven't always been saints dealing with them, but we also didn't just take their land away from them. They attacked Texas with more people than we had to fight and we still won. We paid for the Gadsden Purchase and that was part of New Mexico and Arizona.

[lonny23]

Probably more than half of those protesters have never been to Mexico.
I agree and it's a squalid lifestyle. These border towns are for tourists and I venture to say that they're better than the other towns in the interior that I haven't visited.

[RPM]

http://www.rgvsports.com/ubb/graemlins/popc1.gif

[Miss Kitty]

http://www.rgvsports.com/ubb/graemlins/popc1.gif


I like that smiley.

[RPM]

intresting topic..

[slorch]

After having been understaffed for the past 2 years, I don't have much sympathy for those who complain about the jobs "taken" by illegals. I work( and make hiring decisions) for a top 50 company, offer competitive wages, and awesome benefits, and ask for 55-60 hours a week in return. People are freaking lazy! Instead of taking a job that you can put some effort into and build a career, they would rather live a life of lethargy and dependency. White, black, Hispanic, it doesn't matter. As long as it is more rewarding to sit on your *** at home and pop kids out, people of all races are going to continue to choose this way of life.
If you lived in Honduras and heard that you could get these freebies in the US, wouldn't you partake in the risk to get them for your family? You'd be a fool not to. Our measurement of poverty is insanity to them. Our poor people are middle class at worst in their home countries.
We must cut out the support of anyone who is not a citizen of the USA. EARN IT first for Christ's sake! I will pay over $15k in taxes this year. This is almost as much as my single mother made in the first year after my Dad left in 1980. I have lived in government housing, I have been on food stamps. I have worked harder than other people I know in order to achieve my goals and, what most would consider, living the American dream. Now it is my turn to repay the debt, to make good on society's investment in me 25 years ago.

I believe it is a waste of my tax dollars to support people financially (Lone star, gov't housing, WIC, ect)or more than 5 years. I believe additional support should be capped at 2 dependents( stop having more dependents!!!!!!!) It is a waste of my HARDEARNED money and a terrible investment to grow the welfare state.
i believe if we saw some return in it for our country, it (immigration)would be much more appealing. The illegals like to point out that ours is a country of immigrants. This is true, and often European immigrants were little more than endentured servants( there's no monopoly on slavery, just on crying about it!) when they got here. My point is, that people historically came here to WORK and build a life! If we cut out the dependency that is overwhelming our state and nation, I could probably stomach it. As long as they come here thinking we owe them something, they can get their butt back to wherever they came from.
I went to a school that is 55% Hispanic. I served with people of all colors, creeds, and ethnicities in the Marines. I respect people for who they are. I despise the actions of some people, but still recognize their worth. My point is, anyone can cry about what they think they're not getting. It takes a true man(or woman) to go out and get what is theirs. I don't believe that this is the intention of some of the illegal immigrants, and that is why it must stop.

[lonny23]

intresting topic..
Hey RPM, I don't think any of the guys are trying to say we don't like Hispanics if that's how you feel. This state has a long tradition of many Hispanics who have been here for generations and show loyalty to the U.S. I have no problem with people who want to honor their homeland as long as they also give due respect to the country who's buttering their bread. I can also understand why people sneak over here from Mexico. I am torn somewhat on this deal, though. All of us immigrated to this country at some time in the past (even the indians). As much as I'd like to reduce the number coming across, I know that we could freely enter many years ago. I have a bigger problem with big business moving their operations to save money than I do with businesses hiring illegals because the Americans won't do the job. Many times that comes back to paying for cheap labor, too. One rule that would help reduce the number of illegals is if every person that is born in the U.S. not automatically be U.S. citizens.

[RPM]

oh im cool Loony...just... i dont think some of you know where we are coming from...but im busy at work right now and will give my opinion tommarow when i have more time...an opinion from someone who has first hand lived the life of mexican poverty and whos family came over to the US for the better..

[yankee]

I don't know about the rest of you guys and gals out there but there were demonstrations here in Houston by the children of illegal aliens protesting about a crackdown on illegal immigration. These kids are talking about 'rights' owed to them from the USA even though they have skirted the law to get here. To add insult to all of this they were waving the flag of Mexico and chanting we will conquer. It would have been easier to listen to them if they were waving the US flag and chanting God bless America. If they love Mexico so much and Mexico is so great they why in h**l are they here? Why don't they just sneak back across the border and enjoy their lives in Mexico?
totally right. and unfortunatly this bill that will deport them and their illegal daddies and mommies back where they belong might not pass.

[yankee]

Hey RPM, I don't think any of the guys are trying to say we don't like Hispanics if that's how you feel. This state has a long tradition of many Hispanics who have been here for generations and show loyalty to the U.S. I have no problem with people who want to honor their homeland as long as they also give due respect to the country who's buttering their bread. I can also understand why people sneak over here from Mexico. I am torn somewhat on this deal, though. All of us immigrated to this country at some time in the past (even the indians). As much as I'd like to reduce the number coming across, I know that we could freely enter many years ago. I have a bigger problem with big business moving their operations to save money than I do with businesses hiring illegals because the Americans won't do the job. Many times that comes back to paying for cheap labor, too. One rule that would help reduce the number of illegals is if every person that is born in the U.S. not automatically be U.S. citizens.
do u think that its ok for people to ILLEGALY cross meanwhile people who do it the right way have to sit here and watch these people get admitted to the us, like my grandfather? no its not ok. if they want to come here so badly, then go back to mexico, do it the right way, and everyone will be much happier.

[yankee]

Hey RPM, I don't think any of the guys are trying to say we don't like Hispanics if that's how you feel. This state has a long tradition of many Hispanics who have been here for generations and show loyalty to the U.S. I have no problem with people who want to honor their homeland as long as they also give due respect to the country who's buttering their bread. I can also understand why people sneak over here from Mexico. I am torn somewhat on this deal, though. All of us immigrated to this country at some time in the past (even the indians). As much as I'd like to reduce the number coming across, I know that we could freely enter many years ago. I have a bigger problem with big business moving their operations to save money than I do with businesses hiring illegals because the Americans won't do the job. Many times that comes back to paying for cheap labor, too. One rule that would help reduce the number of illegals is if every person that is born in the U.S. not automatically be U.S. citizens.
do u think that its ok for people to ILLEGALY cross meanwhile people who do it the right way have to sit here and watch these people get admitted to the us, like my grandfather? no its not ok. if they want to come here so badly, then go back to mexico, do it the right way, and everyone will be much happier.

[Miss Kitty]

totally right. and unfortunatly this bill that will deport them and their illegal daddies and mommies back where they belong might not pass.

Now see, that is the part of this thing that tears me up. The kids that are having to pay for their parents decisions. There are some great people who were brought here as babies. They had no choice. They have been educated here, and are more American than some people that were born here in their hearts. They would not know where to start in Mexico. Yet they did come over here illegally. Some are college bound. And they are getting scholarships and grants that my daughter could not get. It is really messy. But yes, the mommies and daddies did it and did not go through the propper channels, and should have to go back. We can not keep rewarding people for breaking the law.

[yankee]

To me, the protests by the students (as mentioned above) I found a little insulting. That's right, insulting. These students ARE American but many embraced Mexico as their home country as if Mexico gave them the grand opportunity and the U.S. is the great devil. See, some leaders of the Hispanic community have bought (or festered) into this radical notion that California, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, and Texas were robbed from Mexico and these states belong to Mexico. Sound silly, doesn't it? I guess the United States is still owned by the United Kingdom. Hell, Mexico is still under Spain's leadership by that logic. That's the main problem with these protests. I'm not even sure it deals with just immigration anymore. Do these protesters know what Mexico is like? Honestly, I believe many of these students just don't realize the social-economic structure of Mexico and how corrupt the government of Mexico is. My aunt and uncle saw this first hand in Mexico and it's not pretty.

However, the generalization of all the protests, I cannot agree with. During the massive protest in Los Angeles, many Mexicans/Mexican-Americans were displaying Old Glory with pride and passion. 500,000 people and was very respectful--no one was looking to cause a major riot or disturbance. Also, it is entirely understandable, why people from Mexico sneak into the U.S. They want a better life for their family. If you have ever visited El Paso, look to the South of the Rio Grande River. Seeing the shacks and open spaces for waste is just a sample of how many live in Mexico--and how the government of Mexico is more than happy to be rid of you. Mexican officials don't give out maps and ways to sneak into the U.S. to help you out. How does that taste to the protesters who cherish Mexico--they don't want you there. No, really they don't.

[As far as the immigration reform bill that started all this controversy--it will pass--with some compromises. There will be some Guest Worker program that could allow illegals to become U.S. citizens--many have been here for so long and are working.]

To me, there is nothing wrong displaying the Mexican flag and having Mexican pride. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING wrong with that. It great to have pride in your native country and/or embrace your heritage. In the Midwest, you will see many people display Polish pride or in the Northeast embrace their Italian heritage. What you won't see from these groups is the utter disrespect that these radical leaders have shown to the U.S. I know where my education came from. I know where my paycheck comes from. I know where I enjoy my high school football. I know that the history of the U.S.A. (and Texas)hasn't been all roses and bluebonnets toward Hispanics. Work still has to be done and I want to be a part of that. At least, we can use the U.S. setup to fight for rights and correct wrongs.

Did Mexico give all these things to me--NO!!

Sorry for the long essay (OK, I not really sorry), but I've said what I needed to say.

:eek:
of course theres nothing wrong with displaying national pride. my grandfather was born in ireland, and i love to call myself irish. but you see the difference is that almost every one of those people who came from poland or italy did it following the right path, doing it legally, and painfully slow. but when those mexicans start getting mad at US! when they are criminals, they can kiss my a** and go home.thats not right. end of story.

[yankee]

Now see, that is the part of this thing that tears me up. The kids that are having to pay for their parents decisions. There are some great people who were brought here as babies. They had no choice. They have been educated here, and are more American than some people that were born here in their hearts. They would not know where to start in Mexico. Yet they did come over here illegally. Some are college bound. And they are getting scholarships and grants that my daughter could not get. It is really messy. But yes, the mommies and daddies did it and did not go through the propper channels, and should have to go back. We can not keep rewarding people for breaking the law.
absolutely right.

[RocklandDragon]

of course theres nothing wrong with displaying national pride. my grandfather was born in ireland, and i love to call myself irish. but you see the difference is that almost every one of those people who came from poland or italy did it following the right path, doing it legally, and painfully slow. but when those mexicans start getting mad at US! when they are criminals, they can kiss my a** and go home.thats not right. end of story.

That's my main point--why do they get so mad at the U.S? Like Loony said, the U.S. got this land fair and square. Texas (along with Mexicans who fought for the independence for Texas) pryed itself away from Mexico. The United States owes Mexico NOTHING!

[lonny23]

do u think that its ok for people to ILLEGALY cross meanwhile people who do it the right way have to sit here and watch these people get admitted to the us, like my grandfather? no its not ok. if they want to come here so badly, then go back to mexico, do it the right way, and everyone will be much happier.
I don't like anybody doing anything illegal. I think people should do things the right way. I'm all for making everybody follow the rules.

[lonny23]

oh im cool Loony...just... i dont think some of you know where we are coming from...but im busy at work right now and will give my opinion tommarow when i have more time...an opinion from someone who has first hand lived the life of mexican poverty and whos family came over to the US for the better..
I know coming over here means a lot to many people that do. I feel empathy for people that want a better life, but I'm also of the mindset of enforcing rules and that's the harsh side of me. As you can see from what I've said in this thread, I have emotions that run the gamut.

[lonny23]

do u think that its ok for people to ILLEGALY cross meanwhile people who do it the right way have to sit here and watch these people get admitted to the us, like my grandfather? no its not ok. if they want to come here so badly, then go back to mexico, do it the right way, and everyone will be much happier.
Do you think it's cool to double post what you said?:p

[SeguinMatadors]

of course theres nothing wrong with displaying national pride. my grandfather was born in ireland, and i love to call myself irish. but you see the difference is that almost every one of those people who came from poland or italy did it following the right path, doing it legally, and painfully slow. but when those mexicans start getting mad at US! when they are criminals, they can kiss my a** and go home.thats not right. end of story.

Amen, send their non appreciative ***** back.

[SeguinMatadors]

In all fairness, part of the reason Mexico is a peice of crap is because the U.S. has them in such a hole it would be impossibe to dig theirselves out of it. Oh well though, doesn't bother me... just throwing that out there.:D

[SeguinMatadors]

If I were to say what I really feel about these aliens I would be hated on here....:)

[yankee]

If I were to say what I really feel about these aliens I would be hated on here....:)
not that you already arent... ;)

[ktCarl]

Hey RPM, I don't think any of the guys are trying to say we don't like Hispanics if that's how you feel. All of us immigrated to this country at some time in the past (even the indians). As much as I'd like to reduce the number coming across, I know that we could freely enter many years ago. I have a bigger problem with big business moving their operations to save money than I do with businesses hiring illegals because the Americans won't do the job. Many times that comes back to paying for cheap labor, too. One rule that would help reduce the number of illegals is if every person that is born in the U.S. not automatically be U.S. citizens.

My parents emigrated from England...LEGALLY. My Mom's Uncle emigrated here from Ireland...LEGALLY. My Aunt and Uncle came over from Australia..LEGALLY. You don't want to talk to them about this subject. They get incensed!!

About the jobs situation. It's not so much Americans won't do the jobs as much as they won't do it for slave wages. It's all about $$. That's why you have outsourcing and an illegal immigrant problem.

And you're right, Lonny, this is not about racism or hating Latinos. I've had many a Hispanic friend and girlfriends. It's about certain people not following the law.

[dragons08]

Now see, that is the part of this thing that tears me up. The kids that are having to pay for their parents decisions. There are some great people who were brought here as babies. They had no choice. They have been educated here, and are more American than some people that were born here in their hearts. They would not know where to start in Mexico. Yet they did come over here illegally. Some are college bound. And they are getting scholarships and grants that my daughter could not get. It is really messy. But yes, the mommies and daddies did it and did not go through the propper channels, and should have to go back. We can not keep rewarding people for breaking the law.
my question is why are they rioting with MEXICAN flags if their so 'american'?

[yankee]

my question is why are they rioting with MEXICAN flags if their so 'american'?
thats what we have been pondering today.

[Red Raiders]

If they were protesting waving American flags, I think it would have obviously had a much more positive impact on perception. The way they are carrying it out paints them in a very negative light.

They're waving American Flag because they are hypocrite and they want to welcome more hispanics than white? maybe haha

[dragons08]

thats what we have been pondering today.
me, my 'chaufer' and 'james' had a good discussion about this after school..were all for kicking the illegals out...we discussed what should be the guidelines to become americans..the moron riots..and made racist (sterotypical) jokes and played is that driver illegal?

but we agreed that....if they become a citizen, they should have to renew it every 2-3 years, if their convicted of a crime, their 'dismemebered' and have to go back to mexico..and plus we had some stuffed phased in with bush's plan

[SeguinMatadors]

me, my 'chaufer' and 'james' had a good discussion about this after school..were all for kicking the illegals out...we discussed what should be the guidelines to become americans..the moron riots..and made racist (sterotypical) jokes and played is that driver illegal?

but we agreed that....if they become a citizen, they should have to renew it every 2-3 years, if their convicted of a crime, their 'dismemebered' and have to go back to mexico..and plus we had some stuffed phased in with bush's plan

LMFAO. Sounds like a good time.


I can dig that. I say kick most of em' out and give accepted immigrants a 5 year temporary citezenship. Once 5 years is up, evaluate them and decide whether to send their ***** back or make them permanent.

[Red Raiders]

me, my 'chaufer' and 'james' had a good discussion about this after school..were all for kicking the illegals out...we discussed what should be the guidelines to become americans..the moron riots..and made racist (sterotypical) jokes and played is that driver illegal?

but we agreed that....if they become a citizen, they should have to renew it every 2-3 years, if their convicted of a crime, their 'dismemebered' and have to go back to mexico..and plus we had some stuffed phased in with bush's plan

I wish they should make laws like that and make strict rules on illegial.

[Red Raiders]

LMFAO. Sounds like a good time.


I can dig that. I say kick most of em' out and give accepted immigrants a 5 year temporary citezenship. Once 5 years is up, evaluate them and decide whether to send their ***** back or make them permanent.

haha funny and I am tired of seening many illegial immigrants crime rate rise.

[SeguinMatadors]

haha funny and I am tired of seening many illegial immigrants crime rate rise.

Yeah... they are bad news.

[dragons08]

I wish they should make laws like that and make strict rules on illegial.
interesting point i heard earlier..if a cop pulls over an illegal, and the illegal says hes illegal, the cop cant do anything, accept right a ticket for being illegal or something like that..he cant arrest him or anything

[SeguinMatadors]

interesting point i heard earlier..if a cop pulls over an illegal, and the illegal says hes illegal, the cop cant do anything, accept right a ticket for being illegal or something like that..he cant arrest him or anything

WTF... if that is true that is complete ********. I say offer up the death penalty to a few of them...that will put a scare into them. lol... jk... but we should do something like 5 years in prison or something.

[Reaganrattler07]

I don't know about the rest of you guys and gals out there but there were demonstrations here in Houston by the children of illegal aliens protesting about a crackdown on illegal immigration. These kids are talking about 'rights' owed to them from the USA even though they have skirted the law to get here. To add insult to all of this they were waving the flag of Mexico and chanting we will conquer. It would have been easier to listen to them if they were waving the US flag and chanting God bless America. If they love Mexico so much and Mexico is so great they why in h**l are they here? Why don't they just sneak back across the border and enjoy their lives in Mexico?

Right with ya.....and it should be a felony to be in this country illegal. I don't mind immigrating to the United States...otherwise I wouldn't be in existence but illegally getting here is what bugs me.

[Slim-Rob]

BIG BUCKIN CHICKEN, YOU ARE BIG, YOU ARE CHICKEN...oh, sorry


FIRST OFF, LET ME SAY THIS: I have no problem with any race/nationality. I have no problem with LEGAL immigrants

I HAVE A PROBLEM with ILLEGAL immigrants. How in the hell are we just going to pardon 12 million people for crimes they have commited. Don't give me this "most are good, hard working people, that have never commited a crime," because everyone that has come into the USA illegally, KEY WORD being illegally, HAS commited a crime. My solution is very drastic, and will never happen before another civil war, but I say we put up a Great Wall of the USA. This wall would go on the borders of USA/Mexico and USA/Canada. We will then crack down on employers that hire illegal immigrants. If you are caught working for one of these employers, and are an illegal immigrant, you will be deported to your country.

This will not work, and it is a little extreme. But SOMETHING has to be done.

[Slim-Rob]

Right with ya.....and it should be a felony to be in this country illegal. I don't mind immigrating to the United States...otherwise I wouldn't be in existence but illegally getting here is what bugs me.

Okay lets make it a felony. What will that do? Put them in prison so taxpayers can pay for them too? Sorry, that won't work.

[yankee]

BIG BUCKIN CHICKEN, YOU ARE BIG, YOU ARE CHICKEN...oh, sorry


FIRST OFF, LET ME SAY THIS: I have no problem with any race/nationality. I have no problem with LEGAL immigrants

I HAVE A PROBLEM with ILLEGAL immigrants. How in the hell are we just going to pardon 12 million people for crimes they have commited. Don't give me this "most are good, hard working people, that have never commited a crime," because everyone that has come into the USA illegally, KEY WORD being illegally, HAS commited a crime. My solution is very drastic, and will never happen before another civil war, but I say we put up a Great Wall of the USA. This wall would go on the borders of USA/Mexico and USA/Canada. We will then crack down on employers that hire illegal immigrants. If you are caught working for one of these employers, and are an illegal immigrant, you will be deported to your country.

This will not work, and it is a little extreme. But SOMETHING has to be done.
i think that wall thing sounds great. how about a 15 foot high wall, with barbed wire on the top, and machine gun and watch towers equipped with night vision and cool military technology ever couple hundred yards or so.

[dragons08]

WTF... if that is true that is complete ********. I say offer up the death penalty to a few of them...that will put a scare into them. lol... jk... but we should do something like 5 years in prison or something.
so we can pay for them having a BETTER life in jail vs mexico?

send em to antartica or mexico city!

[dragons08]

i think that wall thing sounds great.
itd be like the berlin wall..where theres a will theres a way..im thinking high tech..more lasers, sensors, cameras, patrol people..gun em down

[Reaganrattler07]

BIG BUCKIN CHICKEN, YOU ARE BIG, YOU ARE CHICKEN...oh, sorry


FIRST OFF, LET ME SAY THIS: I have no problem with any race/nationality. I have no problem with LEGAL immigrants

I HAVE A PROBLEM with ILLEGAL immigrants. How in the hell are we just going to pardon 12 million people for crimes they have commited. Don't give me this "most are good, hard working people, that have never commited a crime," because everyone that has come into the USA illegally, KEY WORD being illegally, HAS commited a crime. My solution is very drastic, and will never happen before another civil war, but I say we put up a Great Wall of the USA. This wall would go on the borders of USA/Mexico and USA/Canada. We will then crack down on employers that hire illegal immigrants. If you are caught working for one of these employers, and are an illegal immigrant, you will be deported to your country.

This will not work, and it is a little extreme. But SOMETHING has to be done.

We technically already have a wall.....but at the moment it's too much land and too less resources and manpower.

[Slim-Rob]

The problem with prosocuting them is that it costs something like $86 or $68 a day PER prisoner in jail. Tax payers pay for this. I know my wall would cost a lot, but in the long run it won't be as expensive.

[yankee]

me, my 'chaufer' and 'james' had a good discussion about this after school..were all for kicking the illegals out...we discussed what should be the guidelines to become americans..the moron riots..and made racist (sterotypical) jokes and played is that driver illegal?

but we agreed that....if they become a citizen, they should have to renew it every 2-3 years, if their convicted of a crime, their 'dismemebered' and have to go back to mexico..and plus we had some stuffed phased in with bush's plan
theres one major problem with 2-3 years. what if a terrorist sneaks in? that sicko now has 2-3 years of "appearing" to do nothing, yet plots an attack against the us.

[SeguinMatadors]

BIG BUCKIN CHICKEN, YOU ARE BIG, YOU ARE CHICKEN...oh, sorry


FIRST OFF, LET ME SAY THIS: I have no problem with any race/nationality. I have no problem with LEGAL immigrants

I HAVE A PROBLEM with ILLEGAL immigrants. How in the hell are we just going to pardon 12 million people for crimes they have commited. Don't give me this "most are good, hard working people, that have never commited a crime," because everyone that has come into the USA illegally, KEY WORD being illegally, HAS commited a crime. My solution is very drastic, and will never happen before another civil war, but I say we put up a Great Wall of the USA. This wall would go on the borders of USA/Mexico and USA/Canada. We will then crack down on employers that hire illegal immigrants. If you are caught working for one of these employers, and are an illegal immigrant, you will be deported to your country.

This will not work, and it is a little extreme. But SOMETHING has to be done.

The only solution to this problem will be strict punishment for illegals here. If we pardon 12 million of these aliens we will be setting a bad precedent and inviting these criminals to come in packs in the future.

The Great Wall of USA thing would be far to costly to construct and maintain. I think if we were to build one then we should build it only on the Mexico border for quite a few reasons....

Mexico is the big problem.
The Mexican border is where most of the drugs are imported from.
The Canada border is huge and it would be too expensive.
The Mexican border is small (in comparison to Canadas).

[Reaganrattler07]

itd be like the berlin wall..where theres a will theres a way..im thinking high tech..more lasers, sensors, cameras, patrol people..gun em down

*cue music* Money money money money money MON-EY *end music*

[dragons08]

theres one major problem with 2-3 years. what if a terrorist sneaks in? that sicko now has 2-3 years of "appearing" to do nothing, yet plots an attack against the us.
their LEGAL for 2-3 years..so they have the background test, etc

[Slim-Rob]

itd be like the berlin wall..where theres a will theres a way..im thinking high tech..more lasers, sensors, cameras, patrol people..gun em down

LOL. Gun em down.

I used to think we should post NO TRESPASSING-Violaters will be shot signs, and shoot to kill the people coming across. That is in-humane though.

[yankee]

*cue music* Money money money money money MON-EY *end music*
i think we definetly shouldve gone to iraq, but i also think its time to start pulling troops and material out of that country. that would free up some money for this wall.

[yankee]

their LEGAL for 2-3 years..so they have the background test, etc
background tests wont always catch someone.

[SeguinMatadors]

Okay lets make it a felony. What will that do? Put them in prison so taxpayers can pay for them too? Sorry, that won't work.

I say send em' to a prison in which it is only illegals... a terrible sub-par prison that doesn't meet American standards....the worst food.... the worst water... the worst facilities. Don't spend a ton of money on these guys.... they aren't even Americans.

[Reaganrattler07]

i think we definetly shouldve gone to iraq, but i also think its time to start pulling troops and material out of that country. that would free up some money for this wall.

See, that would be good but at the moment we need to keep pressure on that particular "wound". Now, believe me, the Border Patrol is doing what they can to close that border up but like I said....much too much land and not enough men and resources.

[yankee]

I say send em' to a prison in which it is only illegals... a terrible sub-par prison that doesn't meet American standards....the worst food.... the worst water... the worst facilities. Don't spend a ton of money on these guys.... they aren't even Americans.
and then the rest of the world yells at us b/c of this inhumane treatment. just like we yell at countries mistreating their people i.e. iraq, sudan. we'd be contradicting ourselves.

[Reaganrattler07]

LOL. Gun em down.

I used to think we should post NO TRESPASSING-Violaters will be shot signs, and shoot to kill the people coming across. That is in-humane though.

That is a possibility but half the world is already crying that we're killing terrorists....imagine what they'd do about plain criminals....

[yankee]

See, that would be good but at the moment we need to keep pressure on that particular "wound". Now, believe me, the Border Patrol is doing what they can to close that border up but like I said....much too much land and not enough men and resources.
hell, i'll enlist.

[SeguinMatadors]

LOL. Gun em down.

I used to think we should post NO TRESPASSING-Violaters will be shot signs, and shoot to kill the people coming across. That is in-humane though.

I think that would be great... make getting here a ***** and fewer willc ome.

[Reaganrattler07]

and then the rest of the world yells at us b/c of this inhumane treatment. just like we yell at countries mistreating their people i.e. iraq, sudan. we'd be contradicting ourselves.

Yeah, people are already saying we're bad for "mishandling" terrorists.....

I don't know if this has been said but it's quite clear right now. Why would anyone in Washington in their right mind do this? Political leverage. And it's not just the Republicans either, it's the Democrats too....

[SeguinMatadors]

and then the rest of the world yells at us b/c of this inhumane treatment. just like we yell at countries mistreating their people i.e. iraq, sudan. we'd be contradicting ourselves.

In actuality, we should be able to transfer them back to Crap-exico and have them take care of them and their expenses. However, we know those basterds wont.

[Reaganrattler07]

hell, i'll enlist.

They wouldn't mind it...believe me. Just make sure you know spanish and go sign up!

[dragons08]

LOL. Gun em down.

I used to think we should post NO TRESPASSING-Violaters will be shot signs, and shoot to kill the people coming across. That is in-humane though.
well 1 out of 10 have guns


and plus if you say stop, and they dont, you can gun em down..

and about the prision thing..send them to antartica!

[yankee]

They wouldn't mind it...believe me. Just make sure you know spanish and go sign up!
i guess i better start paying attention in espanol dos from now on. :D

[yankee]

well 1 out of 10 have guns


and plus if you say stop, and they dont, you can gun em down..

and about the prision thing..send them to antartica!
i like your thinking. completely ruthless. i say someone prints off this entire thread, and sends it to W.

[dragons08]

dig a HUGE hole across the rio grande...cna be a graveyard..if they fall in or get shot..

set up mines as well

[dragons08]

i like your thinking. completely ruthless. i say someone prints off this entire thread, and sends it to W.
ive met 'dubya' shoulda told him to put me on his cabinet....we'd be bustin caps

[yankee]

dig a HUGE hole across the rio grande...cna be a graveyard..if they fall in or get shot..

set up mines as well
ROFLMAO! is chuck norris here?

[Reaganrattler07]

dig a HUGE hole across the rio grande...cna be a graveyard..if they fall in or get shot..

set up mines as well

Who says they go above ground?

[yankee]

ive met 'dubya' shoulda told him to put me on his cabinet....we'd be bustin caps
as sri lank would say, bust a cap in you a**!

[Reaganrattler07]

ive met 'dubya' shoulda told him to put me on his cabinet....we'd be bustin caps

And I'm sure that'd be just dandy for diplomacy!:p

[dragons08]

Who says they go above ground?
well build a mine fence underground

[dragons08]

And I'm sure that'd be just dandy for diplomacy!:p
yeah..i dont give a crap about PR..im blunt..id make a great president! i say it as it needs to be said

[yankee]

yeah..i dont give a crap about PR..im blunt..id make a great president! i say it as it needs to be said
well with your tactics on international relations, id be a bit nervous. read that book about that kid becoming president, might give you some motivation.

[Reaganrattler07]

yeah..i dont give a crap about PR..im blunt..id make a great president! i say it as it needs to be said

Guess you could sorta be like Ike.....or Reagan even....

[Slim-Rob]

We need to make it illegal to dig a tunnel from Mexico to the US....i left that out of my great wall post earlier.

[Reaganrattler07]

We need to make it illegal to dig a tunnel from Mexico to the US....i left that out of my great wall post earlier.

I think it already is...

[yankee]

Guess you could sorta be like Ike.....or Reagan even....
mexican president will be yelling " DO8, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!"

[Reaganrattler07]

mexican president will be yelling " DO8, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!"

LMAO! And then the Vice President of mexico going "Dio smillo, we're gonna start World War 3!"

[dragons08]

well with your tactics on international relations, id be a bit nervous. read that book about that kid becoming president, might give you some motivation.
well..i have nucs and i wont piss money away on illegals and social security and what not..

and plus, i'll use my excellent bargining skills

[dragons08]

mexican president will be yelling " DO8, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL!"
"mexican president suck it"

[yankee]

"mexican president suck it"
im not going to say anyting....

[Slim-Rob]

I can't find a very good source, but the average cost per prison per year is $20,000+.
(http://www.5atexasfootball.com/forum/vB/)
This Site (http://www.wrongfuldeathinstitute.com/links/prison/prisonstats.htm) has some pretty good information. It is from 1990-2000 though. A little out dated.

"Federal inmates held for immigration offenses has increased by 488% since 1990." [remember, this is in 2000]

(http://www.5atexasfootball.com/forum/vB/) "at 730 inmates per 100,000 residents, Texas claims the third highest incarceration rate among all the 50 states. (just behind Louisiana and the District of Columbia)."

(http://www.5atexasfootball.com/forum/vB/) "California (163,001 inmates), Texas (157,997), and the Federal system 145,416) together held 1 in every 3 prisoners in the Nation."
(http://www.5atexasfootball.com/forum/vB/)
(http://www.5atexasfootball.com/forum/vB/) "Since 1990 the number of correctional facilities in Texas has increased from 43 to 127 which represents a 211.6% increase in the total capacity of Texas Prisons."

(http://www.5atexasfootball.com/forum/vB/) "Texas built 84 of the 351 new State prisons built since 1990 in the United States."


(http://www.5atexasfootball.com/forum/vB/)



(http://www.5atexasfootball.com/forum/vB/)

[Slim-Rob]

I think it already is...

It's not. It's illegal to transport stuff through there, but it is not illegal to build one.

[Reaganrattler07]

Well, we can't go about just killing them.....and putting them back in Mexico is only gonna make them come back.

[yankee]

Well, we can't go about just killing them.....and putting them back in Mexico is only gonna make them come back.
last time i checked we still had several thousand nuclear warheads....

[dragons08]

Well, we can't go about just killing them.....and putting them back in Mexico is only gonna make them come back.
we can kill them!! pentalty for coming here illegally is the death sentence!! thats why i suggest antartica..where they going to go??

[yankee]

we can kill them!! pentalty for coming here illegally is the death sentence!! thats why i suggest antartica..where they going to go??
i hear the penguins down there are a bit picky on who is allowed to enter their territory.

[Slim-Rob]

Well, we can't go about just killing them.....and putting them back in Mexico is only gonna make them come back.
This brings up my EXTREME scenario:

1. Build my wall
2. Deport ALL 12 million or so illegals(we have infinite money:rolleyes:.)
3. They try to come back, BOOM there is a wall.
4. If any make it past the wall, they deserve 5 years in an American prison
5. When 5 years is up, deport.

[KT2000]

Dang, I go away for a couple hours to watch a little
TV, and come back to see yall have started a new version of Command and Conquer on the off-topc board. Yall are some militant dudes.

Violence won't fix it that's fore sure. What would they do...drop laser guided bombs in barrios across the country?

They're already here. I'm not sure what the government would plan on doing about kicking at least 12 million people out of this country. The govt. and the country are paying the price for not fixing the problem before it got completely out of hand.

[dragons08]

This brings up my EXTREME scenario:

1. Build my wall
2. Deport ALL 12 million or so illegals(we have infinite money:rolleyes:.)
3. They try to come back, BOOM there is a wall.
4. If any make it past the wall, they deserve 5 years in an American prison
5. When 5 years is up, deport.
wrong..deport all..they cross wall "BOOM" their dead

[dragons08]

Dang, I go away for a couple hours to watch a little
TV, and come back to see yall have started a new version of Command and Conquer on the off-topc board. Yall are some militant dudes.

Violence isn't going to fix it that's fore sure. They're already here. I'm not sure what the government would plan on doing about kicking at least 12 million people out of this country.
run searches on every employee or have companies do it

[yankee]

Dang, I go away for a couple hours to watch a little
TV, and come back to see yall have started a new version of Command and Conquer on the off-topc board. Yall are some militant dudes.

Violence isn't going to fix it that's fore sure. They're already here. I'm not sure what the government would plan on doing about kicking at least 12 million people out of this country.
of course we can. we get special forces to raid heavily hispanic towns, then kick their little mexican butts across the border. then we build rockettrn's wall, and use his plan.

[Reaganrattler07]

last time i checked we still had several thousand nuclear warheads....

Uh....if you wanna detonate nuclear warheads all up and down the TEXAS-Mexican border and radiate half the State and much of the Southwest....then I guess that plan is for you.

[yankee]

Uh....if you wanna detonate nuclear warheads all up and down the TEXAS-Mexican border and radiate half the State and much of the Southwest....then I guess that plan is for you.
we just have to make sure the wind is blowing right that day.

[Reaganrattler07]

Dang, I go away for a couple hours to watch a little
TV, and come back to see yall have started a new version of Command and Conquer on the off-topc board. Yall are some militant dudes.

Violence won't fix it that's fore sure. What would they do...drop laser guided bombs in barrios across the country?

They're already here. I'm not sure what the government would plan on doing about kicking at least 12 million people out of this country. The govt. and the country are paying the price for not fixing the problem before it got completely out of hand.

There'd also be a huge ripple effect if we just get rid of 12 million people....

[dragons08]

Uh....if you wanna detonate nuclear warheads all up and down the TEXAS-Mexican border and radiate half the State and much of the Southwest....then I guess that plan is for you.
dont nuke em..just scare em with nukes..like in Joe Dirt hahahaha

[yankee]

dont nuke em..just scare em with nukes..like in Joe Dirt hahahaha
he goes to that woman, let me see your boobs or ill blow this place up.

[Reaganrattler07]

we just have to make sure the wind is blowing right that day.

And for the next few weeks after it....nuking is the worst thing we could do....gas would be an option.

[dragons08]

There'd also be a huge ripple effect if we just get rid of 12 million people....
yeah, like record sales for lawn mowers! :p


sorry it slipped!

[Reaganrattler07]

But really, I can't stand this. We can't just let people continue pouring in. Can states still operate the militia system?

[Slim-Rob]

There'd also be a huge ripple effect if we just get rid of 12 million people....

Yeah, there would. That is why I left that out in my first post...Plus, what about those illegals that have children that were born here. Those kids are US citizens. But we can't say if you have a child that was born in the US you can stay, because then there would be millions of kids born 9 months later.

[Reaganrattler07]

yeah, like record sales for lawn mowers! :p


sorry it slipped!

Haha....and there'd be openings for utility truck drivers.....

[dragons08]

Yeah, there would. That is why I left that out in my first post...Plus, what about those illegals that have children that were born here. Those kids are US citizens. But we can't say if you have a child that was born in the US you can stay, because then there would be millions of kids born 9 months later.
take their kids with them..or try to become legal, by proving your american and your kids are smart enough to be here

[Reaganrattler07]

Yeah, there would. That is why I left that out in my first post...Plus, what about those illegals that have children that were born here. Those kids are US citizens. But we can't say if you have a child that was born in the US you can stay, because then there would be millions of kids born 9 months later.

Well, I hate to say it but if I were in charge, I'd ship all of them out. And this may sound cruel but I really issue shooting orders to all border patrolmen....and I'd reinforce the borders.

[dragons08]

Well, I hate to say it but if I were in charge, I'd ship all of them out. And this may sound cruel but I really issue shooting orders to all border patrolmen....and I'd reinforce the borders.
seems like d08 made an impression on you..i guess i got your vote

[Slim-Rob]

Well, I hate to say it but if I were in charge, I'd ship all of them out. And this may sound cruel but I really issue shooting orders to all border patrolmen....and I'd reinforce the borders.
You have to draw the line somewhere though. I know a few kids who were born in the US but their parents weren't. They have done nothing to deserve being packed up and shipped out to Mexico.

Before we even think of deporting anybody, we need to tighten our borders. After we tighten the borders, if an illegal commits a crime, deport them.

[Reaganrattler07]

seems like d08 made an impression on you..i guess i got your vote

Well, if I were in charge it'd be a monarchy:p

[dragons08]

You have to draw the line somewhere though. I know a few kids who were born in the US but their parents weren't. They have done nothing to deserve being packed up and shipped out to Mexico.

Before we even think of deporting anybody, we need to tighten our borders. After we tighten the borders, if an illegal commits a crime, deport them.
no, i want them gone...

they can apply for citizenship, if they fail they can leave..they can go to canada or puerto rico or somewhere, as long as its not here

[Reaganrattler07]

You have to draw the line somewhere though. I know a few kids who were born in the US but their parents weren't. They have done nothing to deserve being packed up and shipped out to Mexico.

Before we even think of deporting anybody, we need to tighten our borders. After we tighten the borders, if an illegal commits a crime, deport them.

One of my parents family living in another part of the country aren't citizens...yet. But the ones who do commit crimes should be sent out....after we've secured the border.

But guys, think about this. Just because their manned....doesn't mean they're sealed. One can still get passed security....for the right price. And it happens unfortunately.

[dragons08]

Well, if I were in charge it'd be a monarchy:p
i vote on making a D08 for president campaign! we can take over lonny!!

[Reaganrattler07]

i vote on making a D08 for president campaign! we can take over lonny!!

I'll be your VP....someone has to tell you waht to do!

[dragons08]

I'll be your VP....someone has to tell you waht to do!
word! i'll start the thread!

[Slim-Rob]

no, i want them gone...

they can apply for citizenship, if they fail they can leave..they can go to canada or puerto rico or somewhere, as long as its not here

But do you realize what would happen if all of those illegal immigrants were gone? It would cost MILLIONS to transport them all, it would cost MILLIONS more to fill the jobs they occupied. But then again, what has Iraq cost us? a few Trillion, right? I don't think there is a good solution to this. We could make them all walk back to mexico:D

LOL, i'd love to stay here and chat with you fellas on this issue some more, but I'm getting offline now. L8

[Reaganrattler07]

But do you realize what would happen if all of those illegal immigrants were gone? It would cost MILLIONS to transport them all, it would cost MILLIONS more to fill the jobs they occupied. But then again, what has Iraq cost us? a few Trillion, right? I don't think there is a good solution to this. We could make them all walk back to mexico:D

LOL, i'd love to stay here and chat with you fellas on this issue some more, but I'm getting offline now. L8

Well, like I said, the ripple effect. There'd be a massive loss of jobs....and the cheap jobs that are underrated. If a part of the engine isn't working - the engine doesn't work. That's practically what would happen if we just ship out 12 million people. And normal americans just wouldn't accept some of the jobs that the illegals end up doing...

[dragons08]

But do you realize what would happen if all of those illegal immigrants were gone? It would cost MILLIONS to transport them all, it would cost MILLIONS more to fill the jobs they occupied. But then again, what has Iraq cost us? a few Trillion, right? I don't think there is a good solution to this. We could make them all walk back to mexico:D

LOL, i'd love to stay here and chat with you fellas on this issue some more, but I'm getting offline now. L8
itd be like the 'trail of tears'.....thatd save A LOT of green..

then the jobs..make them mininum wage + you'll get more americans working..

[dragons08]

Well, like I said, the ripple effect. There'd be a massive loss of jobs....and the cheap jobs that are underrated. If a part of the engine isn't working - the engine doesn't work. That's practically what would happen if we just ship out 12 million people. And normal americans just wouldn't accept some of the jobs that the illegals end up doing...
thats why they become legal and they can keep their job..

[Reaganrattler07]

thats why they become legal and they can keep their job..

That's practically what they're doing now. They came here illegally and now they're just becomming citizens?!

[dragons08]

That's practically what they're doing now. They came here illegally and now they're just becomming citizens?!
well..i'll have a system..answer certain questions which i ask..if wrong they walk to mexico or get shot..their choice

[lonny23]

yeah, like record sales for lawn mowers! :p


sorry it slipped!
If it slipped, edit it out.

[lonny23]

word! i'll start the thread!
You don't even work on your ambassador job and now you want to be President?:confused: :p

[SeguinMatadors]

If it slipped, edit it out.

See what I mean, politically correct. We don't need that D08... DO NOT edit it.

[dragons08]

See what I mean, politically correct. We don't need that D08... DO NOT edit it.
exactly! im not in it for pr like i said! i'll win votes by winning ladies hearst and by being just a plain ol normal person!

[dragons08]

You don't even work on your ambassador job and now you want to be President?:confused: :p
whats there to do in england? they already speak english and united with us in the war..my work over there was done...on to newer better things

[SeguinMatadors]

exactly! im not in it for pr like i said! i'll win votes by winning ladies hearst and by being just a plain ol normal person!

My kind of president.... straight shootin' D08.

[dragons08]

My kind of president.... straight shootin' D08.
that could be our motto..or can we make something better?

[SeguinMatadors]

that could be our motto..or can we make something better?

We could make it something like... "Are you tired of your president being a huge pansy? D08 is your man."

[dragons08]

We could make it something like... "Are you tired of your president being a huge pansy? D08 is your man."
catchy, we need something about pimpin in there to..

[KT2000]

Is D08's candidacy my cue to leave the country? Have a few places in mind if so.

[dragons08]

Is D08's candidacy my cue to leave the country? Have a few places in mind if so.
just leave the keys on your way out :p

[lonny23]

Is D08's candidacy my cue to leave the country? Have a few places in mind if so.
Since you're VP, you can just lock his posting ability and therefore cripple his candidacy.:p I knew I made you Vice President for a good reason.

[dragons08]

Since you're VP, you can just lock his posting ability and therefore cripple his candidacy.:p I knew I made you Vice President for a good reason.
then thatd be showing the people your scared of a threat..allowing for fear within america, then forcing protests for me to be back, and then EVERYONE will over throw you

[oppmojo]

God bless the U.S.A. God bless Texas and God bless the Posters on this board

[dragons08]

God bless the U.S.A. God bless Texas and God bless the Posters on this board
and god bless the D08 regime!

[lonny23]

and god bless the D08 regime!
He can't bless something that's not there!:p

[CKE]

He can't bless something that's not there!:p

o its there you just dont know it yet.........its going to sneak up on you

[Firebird]

For those of you on here griping about migrants..... don't talk with your mouth full. Or in your home. Or on vacation. Or at the office.

Or perhaps you would like to pay $3.00 for an orange at the grocery store? American farmhands aren't going to work at migrant prices.

Are you going to sleep toninght under the roof of your own home? Chances are, it was built with illegal labor. Good thing for you, too, because if it had been built by legal labor drawing "standard" pay, you could expect to pay roughly 2 times more than the amount you (or your parents) did.

Maybe you are going on vacation this year? Found a good deal on a hotel room? I wonder what that cheap room would cost you if they weren't utilizing migrant labor to clean it.

Do you enjoy eating out every now and then? Do you like clean silverware and plates? I wonder what price food would be if those were American dishwashers and busboys. Too expensive for you, no doubt.

Do you have (or hope to have) an office job? It's nice coming in to work and finding the toilets cleaned and wastebaskets emptied, isn't it? Maybe you thought the crappers scrubbed themselves every night. I wonder how much extra your firm can afford to pay YOU by saving a bit on janitorial staff.

American citizens are getting fat and living in the lap of luxury, and doing it cheaper than nearly anyone else in the western world. Your food, your housing, your hotel bills.... so many things in YOUR lives are cheaper and more accesible to YOU than to people anywhere else in the civilized world, and it is thanks to illegal labor.

So go ahead. Complain about them "stealing" American jobs. Whine all you want about how they get "your" child's scholarship money. Build a wall, shoot them, nuke them, do anything you think is necessary to get rid of them.

I want to see your face the next time you buy groceries.

[lonny23]

For those of you on here griping about migrants..... don't talk with your mouth full. Or in your home. Or on vacation. Or at the office.

Or perhaps you would like to pay $3.00 for an orange at the grocery store? American farmhands aren't going to work at migrant prices.

Are you going to sleep toninght under the roof of your own home? Chances are, it was built with illegal labor. Good thing for you, too, because if it had been built by legal labor drawing "standard" pay, you could expect to pay roughly 2 times more than the amount you (or your parents) did.

Maybe you are going on vacation this year? Found a good deal on a hotel room? I wonder what that cheap room would cost you if they weren't utilizing migrant labor to clean it.

Do you enjoy eating out every now and then? Do you like clean silverware and plates? I wonder what price food would be if those were American dishwashers and busboys. Too expensive for you, no doubt.

Do you have (or hope to have) an office job? It's nice coming in to work and finding the toilets cleaned and wastebaskets emptied, isn't it? Maybe you thought the crappers scrubbed themselves every night. I wonder how much extra your firm can afford to pay YOU by saving a bit on janitorial staff.

American citizens are getting fat and living in the lap of luxury, and doing it cheaper than nearly anyone else in the western world. Your food, your housing, your hotel bills.... so many things in YOUR lives are cheaper and more accesible to YOU than to people anywhere else in the civilized world, and it is thanks to illegal labor.

So go ahead. Complain about them "stealing" American jobs. Whine all you want about how they get "your" child's scholarship money. Build a wall, shoot them, nuke them, do anything you think is necessary to get rid of them.

I want to see your face the next time you buy groceries.
You are right on what you said. It's all about the big companies making money and illegal labor comes cheaper.

[Firebird]

You are right on what you said. It's all about the big companies making money and illegal labor comes cheaper.


It's not just about that, though. The consumer (us) saves too.

What many ardent anti-immigrants don't realize is that they are rehashing the same tired arguments that were made centuries earlier against the "good immigrants" (European) that they profess to admire, because they "did it right".

Consider the Italians. The massive wave of Southern European immigrants faced the same opposition Latin Americans do today:

1. "They don't assimilate. They don't want to be Americans." Italians also settled in ethnic enclaves, usually in major port cities (including Galveston) and tended to form their own societies based on kindred ethnicity. The first and second generations often did not know or learn English, when they did, they spoke with a heavy accent. This was complicated by the fact that the neighborhood schools were sub par. They faced further opposition because of their Catholicsm. Even today, ethnic pride is huge in the ethnic neighborhoods of the north. (Irish faced the same problems earlier, also Chinese)

2. "They steal American jobs". Ditto for Italians. Finding work was difficult for them, and often they only secured it by agreeing to work for less money thant the American counterpart. Often led to full fledged riots. Ironcially, while they were working for lower wages, they also gained a reputation for being lazy and shiftless. (Ditto the Irish, ditto Chinese.)

3. "They're criminals" Go rent "The Godfather, Part II". In any massive wave of immigration, some bad apples get in. In addition, the lack of opportunity to secure honest work made crime a more attractive option for some. Many of them chose to imoport contraband(Ditto the Irish)

In fact, the wave of Southern Europenan immigration in the late 19th- early 20th centruy drew so much ire, and caused so much concern, that our countries first real policies and restrictions in regards to immigration were written up, leading to "quota" systems which limited immigration from less desirable countries, with Asia and South Europe being especially hard hit.

Yet today, the Irish or Italian cop/fireman is as much an icon of America as baseball or apple pie. Chinese and other Asian immigrants are darlings of the right wing for their success.

This latest wave of Latin American immigrants brings many of the same challenges, and only a few truly unique ones. Give them time, and they will be as American as the Irish and Italians are today. If you don't believe that, then you haven't talked to a 3rd generation Mexican-Ameican recently.

[CKE]

i dont like this thread its not fun and to serious for the off topic forum

[Big_Maar]

Ok D08 I've listened to you and the rest of your kid friends enough. I was born here but my parents were born in Mexico. I played high school football(yes i took a white kid's spot), I got a scholarship to play college ball but i chose to enlist in the military. I was in Operation Desert Storm where I spent 2 yrs just so that kids like you can come on a board and talk about illigals from Mexico. My parents didn't come to this country with the intent to take your grandads job of shoveling **** all day, but with the intent of surviving and making a better life for the family. They came here in 1950 a few years after most people's relatives came over from Europe (illigally too). I have since graduated from college and living a life of luxury thanks to my parents. If I was to be living in Mexico, I would be working 16 hr days 6 days a week and only making $125 a week like my cousin...... or maybe like my other cousin running with drug cartels that eventually took his life. Those are your choices in Mexico.....if it was up to me i would risk going up against your Great Wall of the USA, land mine, gun lines or whatever you have in order to live in the Land of the FREE.

It is not just illigals from Mexico, but also:
Panama
Nicaragua
EL Salvador
Guatemala
Honduras
Chile
Peru
Puerto Rico
Dominican Republic
Cuba
Argentina
Brazil
and CANADA!!!!!

What will become of Baseball?:cool:


GOD BLESS THE USA
VIVA MEXICO

[CKE]

Ok D08 I've listened to you and the rest of your kid friends enough. I was born here but my parents were born in Mexico. I played high school football(yes i took a white kid's spot), I got a scholarship to play college ball but i chose to enlist in the military. I was in Operation Desert Storm where I spent 2 yrs just so that kids like you can come on a board and talk about illigals from Mexico. My parents didn't come to this country with the intent to take your grandads job of shoveling **** all day, but with the intent of surviving and making a better life for the family. They came here in 1950 a few years after most people's relatives came over from Europe (illigally too). I have since graduated from college and living a life of luxury thanks to my parents. If I was to be living in Mexico, I would be working 16 hr days 6 days a week and only making $125 a week like my cousin...... or maybe like my other cousin running with drug cartels that eventually took his life. Those are your choices in Mexico.....if it was up to me i would risk going up against your Great Wall of the USA, land mine, gun lines or whatever you have in order to live in the Land of the FREE.

It is not just illigals from Mexico, but also:
Panama
Nicaragua
EL Salvador
Guatemala
Honduras
Chile
Peru
Puerto Rico
Dominican Republic
Cuba
Argentina
Brazil
and CANADA!!!!!

What will become of Baseball?:cool:


GOD BLESS THE USA
VIVA MEXICO

1)Told you it got to serious im sure he didnt mean anything by it LP (or at leats i hope he didnt)

2) dont bring Canada into this whats that all aboot

3)baseball was good before all of the foreign players but then again it just got better when more started playing. look what happened when they started letting men from the negro leagues play it did nothing but get better as well.

[Firebird]

Ok D08 I've listened to you and the rest of your kid friends enough. I was born here but my parents were born in Mexico. I played high school football(yes i took a white kid's spot), I got a scholarship to play college ball but i chose to enlist in the military. I was in Operation Desert Storm where I spent 2 yrs just so that kids like you can come on a board and talk about illigals from Mexico. My parents didn't come to this country with the intent to take your grandads job of shoveling **** all day, but with the intent of surviving and making a better life for the family. They came here in 1950 a few years after most people's relatives came over from Europe (illigally too). I have since graduated from college and living a life of luxury thanks to my parents. If I was to be living in Mexico, I would be working 16 hr days 6 days a week and only making $125 a week like my cousin...... or maybe like my other cousin running with drug cartels that eventually took his life. Those are your choices in Mexico.....if it was up to me i would risk going up against your Great Wall of the USA, land mine, gun lines or whatever you have in order to live in the Land of the FREE.

It is not just illigals from Mexico, but also:
Panama
Nicaragua
EL Salvador
Guatemala
Honduras
Chile
Peru
Puerto Rico
Dominican Republic
Cuba
Argentina
Brazil
and CANADA!!!!!

What will become of Baseball?:cool:


GOD BLESS THE USA
VIVA MEXICO

Thanks, LP Fan.

To tell the truth, I admire the risks illegal immigrants take. They are willing to face miles of hostile terrain, incarceration, the threat of unscrupulous coyotes.... the list goes on and on. The posters make a big deal about following the law of the US. But there is a higher duty, and that is the duty a men and women have to their families, to their children. The duty to do whatever it takes to make life better for them, to give them a chance. That is what the vast, vast, vast majority of illegal immigrants are here to do.

Why are we wasting our efforts trying to catch all of these scary gardeners, dishwashers and janitors. We need a guest worker program, so that we can go after the real bad guys. We need to make it easier for Latin American immigrants who want to do no more than bust their a**es every day to come here and make a better life for themselves and their families.

[lonny23]

Thanks, LP Fan.

To tell the truth, I admire the risks illegal immigrants take. They are willing to face miles of hostile terrain, incarceration, the threat of unscrupulous coyotes.... the list goes on and on. The posters make a big deal about following the law of the US. But there is a higher duty, and that is the duty a men and women have to their families, to their children. The duty to do whatever it takes to make life better for them, to give them a chance. That is what the vast, vast, vast majority of illegal immigrants are here to do.

Why are we wasting our efforts trying to catch all of these scary gardeners, dishwashers and janitors. We need a guest worker program, so that we can go after the real bad guys. We need to make it easier for Latin American immigrants who want to do no more than bust their a**es every day to come here and make a better life for themselves and their families.I was going to send you a PM, but I'll post here since you came back on tonight. You are very much right about the old "dirty" immigrants like the Irish and Italians. We put quotas in effect many years ago. I have to agree that most groups do eventually assimiliate to America after they've been here for several generations.

[KT2000]

Great posts from Firebird and LPFan.

FWIW, I'm pretty sure D08 and co. were just messing around with their talk of martial law on the borders, etc.

As far as illegal immigrants are concerned, I don't hate them for being here. If I lived where they came from, I'd be looking for a way out too. My issue with the student protesters is that most interviewed on TV had no idea why they were doing it.

If you are going to try and make a stand by skipping school, at least know what you are doing it for. Otherwise, you just trivialize the entire thing and feed bad perceptions of your people. Also, I'd also advise they mix in a few American flags in addition to that of their "native" country in the next round of protests. I.E., know what you are protesting for....full access to good 'ol U.S.A. freedoms.

When I see people protesting without U.S. flags in addition to their original country, it makes me think they don't really want to be considered American and are only after the benefits that go along with being a U.S. citizen. I can understand that, but at the same time I don't think you can be half-committed to your cause. It'd be like wanting to marry someone just for their sex appeal.

[LUFPAN]

For those of you on here griping about migrants..... don't talk with your mouth full. Or in your home. Or on vacation. Or at the office.

Or perhaps you would like to pay $3.00 for an orange at the grocery store? American farmhands aren't going to work at migrant prices.

Are you going to sleep toninght under the roof of your own home? Chances are, it was built with illegal labor. Good thing for you, too, because if it had been built by legal labor drawing "standard" pay, you could expect to pay roughly 2 times more than the amount you (or your parents) did.

Maybe you are going on vacation this year? Found a good deal on a hotel room? I wonder what that cheap room would cost you if they weren't utilizing migrant labor to clean it.

Do you enjoy eating out every now and then? Do you like clean silverware and plates? I wonder what price food would be if those were American dishwashers and busboys. Too expensive for you, no doubt.

Do you have (or hope to have) an office job? It's nice coming in to work and finding the toilets cleaned and wastebaskets emptied, isn't it? Maybe you thought the crappers scrubbed themselves every night. I wonder how much extra your firm can afford to pay YOU by saving a bit on janitorial staff.

American citizens are getting fat and living in the lap of luxury, and doing it cheaper than nearly anyone else in the western world. Your food, your housing, your hotel bills.... so many things in YOUR lives are cheaper and more accesible to YOU than to people anywhere else in the civilized world, and it is thanks to illegal labor.

So go ahead. Complain about them "stealing" American jobs. Whine all you want about how they get "your" child's scholarship money. Build a wall, shoot them, nuke them, do anything you think is necessary to get rid of them.

I want to see your face the next time you buy groceries.

A great post and well thought out.

However, illegally coming into the US is still a breach of law. No matter how we try to justify it, a case can not be made that those who enter illegally are deserving of US benefits. Its great that they are willing to work the jobs that most of us would not want and its speaks well of their work ethic and desire to help their families. But we can not justify the willfull breaking of the law. I'm honestly not concerned with the immigrants who come over from Mexico. My concern is the openess of the border and the ease to which anyone wishing to do the US harm can slip by authorities. For this reason and this reason only, I would support putting up a barrier across our border with Mexico and yes I'd be willing to pay the extra money at the grocery store if it means that even one US live was saved because a terrorist was caught before he could do our country harm.

[KT2000]

We'd need to lock down the north in that case also. The 9/11 hijackers all came into this country via Canada.

[LUFPAN]

We'd need to lock down the north in that case also. The 9/11 hijackers all came into this country via Canada.

I don't have a problem with that.

[dada]

This is good reading...lots of opinions....it's sooo much I want to say but cant get it out on here. Too much typing. I agree with some things and I disagree with some things.....basicly I think we ALL were Immigrants at one time or another...some came by choice....some by force. But when you enter someones home....you have to abide by their rules. And Like KT2000 said, I was pissed that half of the kids didnt know what they were protesting...even saw a few black kids sprinkled in...most of these kids just wanted to walk out of school.

[LUFPAN]

basicly I think we ALL were Immigrants at one time or another...some came by choice....some by force. But when you enter someones home....you have to abide by their rules.

That's the best summary of this discussion that I've heard so far.

[Miss Kitty]

That's the best summary of this discussion that I've heard so far.

I agree with that.

My main issue is people that want something for nothing. They want the health care, and the educations, yet they don't want to contribute to the cost. So yes, I agree on one hand the consumer is benifiting from the labor costs but at the same time we are also paying for it in the higher insurance, taxes, etc. It is not the imigrants, it is all of the lazy, freeloaders that make me nuts. ie.... many of the Katrina and Rita victims. The one I was trying to help was mad because he could not collect Texas Unemployement. However, when he did work, he got paid "under the table", has not filed taxes in years, and he or his employer had not paid anything into unemployement. Yet he felt he had the right to draw it and sit on his butt. Then when Texas said no, he went to the Federal Government and guess what, is still getting paid to sit on his butt.

I applaud the people who want to make a better life for themselves and their families, and work hard to do that. But part of that process is doing it the lawful way. Taking from a system that you don't contribute to is wrong in my opinion, I don't care who you are, where you come from, or what color you are.

[RPM]

geezz if I would of known that pages 2 through 7 was mindless crap I would of skipped it..

great post firebird..some of this guys are so quick to jump on the gun and yell out go back...the problem with that is that theres nothing to go back to..

[CKE]

geezz if I would of known that pages 2 through 7 was mindless crap I would of skipped it..



lol i did

[ktCarl]

Probably the best two things you could do to curtail the flood of illegal immigrants is to enforce the laws that already make it illegal to use illegal immigrants. Make it a $5,000.00 per illegal immigrant payable by the guilty employers. The second thing would to make legal entry into this country a little bit easier so as not to tempt illegal entry.

Of course Kinky Friedman's idea on border control was funny. He said if he were elected Gov. of Texas he would hire Mexican Generals to have posts all along our Texas/Mexico border. He said he would put $5 mil in an offshore bank per General and tell them that he would deduct $1,000.00 for every illegal immigrant that sneaks into Texas by their watch. Kinky said the problem would be resolved in 6 mos. :D

[lonny23]

Probably the best two things you could do to curtail the flood of illegal immigrants is to enforce the laws that already make it illegal to use illegal immigrants. Make it a $5,000.00 per illegal immigrant payable by the guilty employers. The second thing would to make legal entry into this country a little bit easier so as not to tempt illegal entry.

Of course Kinky Friedman's idea on border control was funny. He said if he were elected Gov. of Texas he would hire Mexican Generals to have posts all along our Texas/Mexico border. He said he would put $5 mil in an offshore bank per General and tell them that he would deduct $1,000.00 for every illegal immigrant that sneaks into Texas by their watch. Kinky said the problem would be resolved in 6 mos. :D
Money buys everything. The drug dealers would try to buy the generals, too. I think the businesses would find a better way to cheat, too.

[CyFallsMom]

Don't EVEN get me going on this topic. When my girls came home and told me that some of the kids were bragging that they didn't have to go to school I about went through the roof. They are protesting and carrying a Mexican flag (that was strange) - next thing you know, they'll be burning the US flag in our own back yard and that's when I go berserk!! They come here, get educated for free, have kids for free (mine were quite costly), look down upon all of us as inferior (yeah, RIGHT), get free services of all kinds and then complain about their rights - WHAT RIGHTS!!!!! I have no rights in Mexico - they have none here - plain and simple. They talk about being the hardest workers -they HAVE to be because they aren't as educated as most. Like I said, don't get me going - this topic makes me mad - I wrote to my congressmen to please pass the bill. If these people are legal and have gone through the channels, welcome to my country (Texas AND the U.S:) ). If not, please leave and DO go through the proper channels. I am all for making English the official language too - it's a shame that I have to feel like a foreigner when I go out. My family came here from England and Ireland in the 1700's so there was no immigration law but they helped build this country - the other part was Indian so they were here already. My husband's family went through Ellis Island and became citizens as soon as possible and learned English and never looked back. It's about time the government started doing something.

[oppmojo]

I really don't care who picks the crops, just as long as they are here legaly and pay their fair share of taxes.

I also beleive if you are born in the USA from parents here illegaly, this should not give you the right to be a citizen.

I also beleive we should place our military along both Mexico and Canada borders.

Our pocketbooks can take only so much before we end up like Mexico.

I also beleive I have stirred the pot.LOL

[lonny23]

I really don't care who picks the crops, just as long as they are here legaly and pay their fair share of taxes.

I also beleive if you are born in the USA from parents here illegaly, this should not give you the right to be a citizen.

I also beleive we should place our military along both Mexico and Canada borders.

Our pocketbooks can take only so much before we end up like Mexico.

I also beleive I have stirred the pot.LOL
We need more military if we're going to put people on the borders.

[oppmojo]

We need more military if we're going to put people on the borders.
In this electronic age , our military can handle it. Placing a soilder every hundred yards isn't needed.

[Firebird]

Don't EVEN get me going on this topic. When my girls came home and told me that some of the kids were bragging that they didn't have to go to school I about went through the roof. They are protesting and carrying a Mexican flag (that was strange) - next thing you know, they'll be burning the US flag in our own back yard and that's when I go berserk!! They come here, get educated for free, have kids for free (mine were quite costly), look down upon all of us as inferior (yeah, RIGHT), get free services of all kinds and then complain about their rights - WHAT RIGHTS!!!!! I have no rights in Mexico - they have none here - plain and simple. They talk about being the hardest workers -they HAVE to be because they aren't as educated as most. Like I said, don't get me going - this topic makes me mad - I wrote to my congressmen to please pass the bill. If these people are legal and have gone through the channels, welcome to my country (Texas AND the U.S:) ). If not, please leave and DO go through the proper channels. I am all for making English the official language too - it's a shame that I have to feel like a foreigner when I go out. My family came here from England and Ireland in the 1700's so there was no immigration law but they helped build this country - the other part was Indian so they were here already. My husband's family went through Ellis Island and became citizens as soon as possible and learned English and never looked back. It's about time the government started doing something.


This post has so many errors, I don't know where to begin. For one, CyFalls mom, these people do have rights, whether you acknowlege them or not. The 14th Ammendment to the Constitution guarantees them that as follows:

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Whether you like it or not, the Constitution, the founding document of this nation, the crowning glory of enlightenment thought, guarantees any person living within the United States equal protection under the law.

Second, your English as an official language idea. Huh? What more do you want to do? English is the de facto language of our country. All court proceedings are conducted in English. (Although non-English speaking participants are entitled to an interpreter). All internal governmental communications are conducted in English. This country HAS to provide for non-English speaking CITIZENS (there are many) because not to do so would be a violation of the equal protection clause. Just because a citizen does not speak English does not mean they can be denied any of the services or rights available to any other citizen. Or perhaps citizens who do not speak English do not have the right to understand court proceedings? Perhaps we simply shouldn't take the depositions of non-English speaking witnesses? Perhaps if you can't speak English, you don't get to vote?

But really, you just "think it is a shame to feel like a foreigner when you go out". Well, I am sorry ma'am, but our 1st ammendment guarantees freedom of speech for all citizens, not just English speaking ones. That means I am free to put up a sign in any language I choose. I am free to speak any language I want to in public. I can't find the clause in the Bill of Rights where it states that you have the right not to hear any other toungue but English. Care to point it out to me? There is a country where all signage, by law, MUST be in the officaial language...it is called France. (The Soviet Union was pretty big on the whole official language thing too, back in the day.) Dang it, that pesky Bill of Rights just keeps getting in the way of your Utopia.


They "look down on us as inferior"? What? What planet are you on? If anyone is looked down upon as inferior, it is immigrants, particularly those of Latin American origin.

Keep this stuff coming. It is pure gold. I can understand people who have legitimate concerns about illegal immigration--I know, I LIVE ont he fron lines. I even can find room to disagree on the best way to manage immigration. But posts like this do your position no credit whatsoever.

[SeguinMatadors]

This post has so many errors, I don't know where to begin. For one, CyFalls mom, these people do have rights, whether you acknowlege them or not. The 14th Ammendment to the Constitution guarantees them that as follows:

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Whether you like it or not, the Constitution, the founding document of this nation, the crowning glory of enlightenment thought, guarantees any person living within the United States equal protection under the law.

Second, your English as an official language idea. Huh? What more do you want to do? English is the de facto language of our country. All court proceedings are conducted in English. (Although non-English speaking participants are entitled to an interpreter). All internal governmental communications are conducted in English. This country HAS to provide for non-English speaking CITIZENS (there are many) because not to do so would be a violation of the equal protection clause. Just because a citizen does not speak English does not mean they can be denied any of the services or rights available to any other citizen. Or perhaps citizens who do not speak English do not have the right to understand court proceedings? Perhaps we simply shouldn't take the depositions of non-English speaking witnesses? Perhaps if you can't speak English, you don't get to vote?

But really, you just "think it is a shame to feel like a foreigner when you go out". Well, I am sorry ma'am, but our 1st ammendment guarantees freedom of speech for all citizens, not just English speaking ones. That means I am free to put up a sign in any language I choose. I am free to speak any language I want to in public. I can't find the clause in the Bill of Rights where it states that you have the right not to hear any other toungue but English. Care to point it out to me? There is a country where all signage, by law, MUST be in the officaial language...it is called France. (The Soviet Union was pretty big on the whole official language thing too, back in the day.) Dang it, that pesky Bill of Rights just keeps getting in the way of your Utopia.


They "look down on us as inferior"? What? What planet are you on? If anyone is looked down upon as inferior, it is immigrants, particularly those of Latin American origin.

Keep this stuff coming. It is pure gold. I can understand people who have legitimate concerns about illegal immigration--I know, I LIVE ont he fron lines. I even can find room to disagree on the best way to manage immigration. But posts like this do your position no credit whatsoever.

I have got to agree with what you say. We are nothing with out our constitution and if we abridge the constitutional rights of any it is opening the door for mass mistreatment to many.

I also agree with the fact that it is not aliens who look down upon us but us that do them. In my hometown there is this corner store in the "ghetto" area of town that a bunch of aliens go every morning hoping to get picked up by someone needing cheap labor. Everyone cracks jokes on them. Also, I have some friends who take a pick up over there.... tell them they need a lot of work and load as many of those aliens in as possible.... then they procede to take them out into the country to an abandonded old house and drop them off as if they are going to do work there and drive off. lol... my friends are crazy... done it on more than a few occasions.

[ktCarl]

This post has so many errors, I don't know where to begin. For one, CyFalls mom, these people do have rights, whether you acknowlege them or not. The 14th Ammendment to the Constitution guarantees them that as follows:

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; .

This is about the point your reply gets blown out of the water.

[CyFallsMom]

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Exactly my point Quiz Kid - they ARE NOT citizens of this country - therefore, they have no rights!!!!! If they are citizens and have gone through the processes, Welcome to the USA!

[dragons08]

Ok D08 I've listened to you and the rest of your kid friends enough.
im really sorry if i offended you..like KT said, were just messing around with the 'bam bam' stuff and what not

[Firebird]

This is about the point your reply gets blown out of the water.


Actually, KTCarl and CyFallsMom, you are both wrong and I am right. (Or, at the very least, the Supreme Court of the United States is on my side.) No less than twice, our highest court has ruled that the Equal Protection Clause applies not only to citizens, but to any PERSON living within the jurdistiction of the state. The ammendment, as drafted, uses the word "citizen" once and "person" two other times.

The first ruling: Yick Wo v. Hopkins, 1866. This case had to do with an attempt by the City of San Francisco to close down a Chinese laundry. Here are some excerpts from the Supreme Court ruling (emphasis mine):

The fourteenth amendment to the constitution is not confined to the protection of citizens. It says: 'Nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.' These provisions are universal in their application, to all persons within the territorial jurisdiction, without regard to any differences of race, of color, or of nationality; and the equal protection of the laws is a pledge of the protection of equal laws

The second of two important Supreme Cases: Tyler v. Doe, 1982, in which a Texas law denying education to illegal immigrants was struck down. Excerpts from that citation (emphasis mine):

Use of the phrase "within its jurisdiction" thus does not detract from, but rather confirms, the understanding that the protection of the Fourteenth Amendment extends to anyone, citizen or stranger, who is subject to the laws of a State, and reaches into every corner of a State's territory. That a person's initial entry into a State, or into the United States, was unlawful, and that he may for that reason be expelled, cannot negate the simple fact of his presence within the State's territorial perimeter. Given such presence, he is subject to the full range of obligations imposed by the State's civil and criminal laws. And until he leaves the jurisdiction - either voluntarily, or involuntarily in accordance with the Constitution and laws of the United States - he is entitled to the equal protection of the laws that a State may choose to establish.

So, I'm sorry to disappoint, but my interpretation of the 14th ammendment is the one that also has the backing of legal precedent. Of course, you are free to your opinion, but just so you know, the people who actually decide these things are on my side.

[Firebird]

The reasoning behind these rulings is completely logical, if one bothers to give pause and reflect on it. The United States (rightfully) has always jealously guarded its soverign right to exert juridstiction over non-citizens within its borders. We have long maintained that all people, while in the United States, are subject to and must abide by US and State law. Every year, Federal and State prosecutors try and convict illegal immigrants, in Texas they are subject to the death penalty (The death penalty is non-existent in Mexico-- this is just one major point of dispute between the nations). However, we cannot have it both ways. If we want to maintain that non-citizens are subject to US laws while on US soil, then they are subject to ALL the laws, even the ones that extend them certain rights, ie, due process, attorney, jury trial... the list goes on and on.

The US is deadly serious about this principle, and for that reason, will not aid a US citizen that is being accused of violating another country's law while on that country's soil. If you are arrested abroad, the US consulate will send an officer to meet with you, will assist you in finding local legal assistance, and will monitor proceedings to ensure they are done according to the law of the HOST nation. These limited rights are guaranteed by treaty and convention (though don't try to do it in say, Sudan). The US government will NOT intervene in the legal proceedings of a soveriegn state. Some of you may remember the controversy that swirled around the American teen who was arrested and sentaced to be "caned" in Singapore. Many people in the US objected to a US citizen being subjected to cruel and unusal punishment, the US government understood that your rights as an American citizen do not apply on foreign soil.

CyFallsMom is not correct when she says she has no rights when she is in Mexico. She does-- the rights extended by the Mexican government. If she were to be arrested, she would be tried according to their laws, not US laws. She would be extended the rights that accused Mexicans are extended. There ARE a few countries that have seperate justice systems and rights for foreigners, but for the most part they are nasty, brutish, pariah states. Mexico is not one of them.

The basic principle here-- that the Equal Protection Clause extends to everyone who happens to be in US Territory, regardless of immigration status, is set in stone. There is room for healthy debate (and there should BE healthy debate) about how far the protection should extend. Example of this include the debate over issuing driver's licenses to immigrants. However, the basic idea is non negotiable.

[lonny23]

The reasoning behind these rulings is completely logical, if one bothers to give pause and reflect on it. The United States (rightfully) has always jealously guarded its soverign right to exert juridstiction over non-citizens within its borders. We have long maintained that all people, while in the United States, are subject to and must abide by US and State law. Every year, Federal and State prosecutors try and convict illegal immigrants, in Texas they are subject to the death penalty (The death penalty is non-existent in Mexico-- this is just one major point of dispute between the nations). However, we cannot have it both ways. If we want to maintain that non-citizens are subject to US laws while on US soil, then they are subject to ALL the laws, even the ones that extend them certain rights, ie, due process, attorney, jury trial... the list goes on and on.

The US is deadly serious about this principle, and for that reason, will not aid a US citizen that is being accused of violating another country's law while on that country's soil. If you are arrested abroad, the US consulate will send an officer to meet with you, will assist you in finding local legal assistance, and will monitor proceedings to ensure they are done according to the law of the HOST nation. These limited rights are guaranteed by treaty and convention (though don't try to do it in say, Sudan). The US government will NOT intervene in the legal proceedings of a soveriegn state. Some of you may remember the controversy that swirled around the American teen who was arrested and sentaced to be "caned" in Singapore. Many people in the US objected to a US citizen being subjected to cruel and unusal punishment, the US government understood that your rights as an American citizen do not apply on foreign soil.

CyFallsMom is not correct when she says she has no rights when she is in Mexico. She does-- the rights extended by the Mexican government. If she were to be arrested, she would be tried according to their laws, not US laws. She would be extended the rights that accused Mexicans are extended. There ARE a few countries that have seperate justice systems and rights for foreigners, but for the most part they are nasty, brutish, pariah states. Mexico is not one of them.

The basic principle here-- that the Equal Protection Clause extends to everyone who happens to be in US Territory, regardless of immigration status, is set in stone. There is room for healthy debate (and there should BE healthy debate) about how far the protection should extend. Example of this include the debate over issuing driver's licenses to immigrants. However, the basic idea is non negotiable.
Crap, Firebird. You're on top of this.:cool: Each country has a Status of Forces Agreement for us military guys, but they still try us according to the laws of the host nation.

[SeguinMatadors]

Crap, Firebird. You're on top of this.:cool: Each country has a Status of Forces Agreement for us military guys, but they still try us according to the laws of the host nation.

Yeah, if I ever get into a politcal arguement with Firebird I am quiting and conceding victory right then and there. All he has to do is pop into the thread and say, "It is I, Firebird" and I am done with it. I will drop it.

[CKE]

to many big posts for me to read but yeah i agree with someone

[RocklandDragon]

Actually, KTCarl and CyFallsMom, you are both wrong and I am right. (Or, at the very least, the Supreme Court of the United States is on my side.).

True. :cool:

It may get dicey if the immigration reform bill passes the House and Senate (or a compromise bill is reached). Afterwards, don't be surprised if a group from Arizona or California who wants to keep funding or government programs to illegal immigrants brings up a case to the Supreme Court within the next year or two. In 1982, Thomas, Kennedy, and Alito were not on the court and the setup of the court was very liberal (not sure if Scalia was on the bench in 1982). Chief Justice, John Roberts has a fantastic knowledge of the Supreme Court's rulings and may be inclined to maintain precedent. Not sure, but the ruling could be very different this time around.

[ktCarl]

So, I'm sorry to disappoint, but my interpretation of the 14th ammendment is the one that also has the backing of legal precedent. Of course, you are free to your opinion, but just so you know, the people who actually decide these things are on my side.

So all illegal immigrants wherever they are from have a kind of 'exile' status even though upon the entrance of this country they have already broken one of its laws? Any individual in a foreign land has the same citizen status that I have? All they have to do is scoot on over here, break an immigration law and voila!

I say what's all the fuss about our borders? We should eliminate all our immigration roadblocks, laws and just keep the borders open for anyone.

By-the-way, is entering this country illegally a crime? Class C Misdemeanor? I am ignorant on it's classification.

The Courts' interpretation of the 14th Ammendment seems to apply to all people inside our borders, whether by illegal entry or not, has the same due process protections if they commit a crime while here like....murder, theft, arson,..etc.
This is fine and is not what is pissing everyone off. I think you know what the problem is.

Anyway, thanks for the input. I've enjoyed your comments and everyone else's on this subject.

[CyFallsMom]

Well said, Carl! If the illegal immigrants want to have the same rights, constitutional or otherwise, I have a website for them - www.IRS.gov

Check it out and then start sending your money to them if you really want to live here - I have been paying Uncle Sam since 1978 and part of that money has been used to send illegal immigrants to school AND and get free medical help for them as well. I pay a medical premium AND co-pays too. Don't spout all the constitution mumbo jumbo unless we are talking about citizens of this country. People tend to use it as a facade - it's not meant to be that way.

[Rebel84]

If you are truely an AMERICAN right about now you should really be pissed off at this situation. First of all if these kids want to walk around and protest. DONT bring your Mexican falg. If you so want to be a AMERICAN then there is an AMERICAN FLAG! Want to fly the Meico flag, so be it , but let it be in Mexico ! Not a one of these kids can tell me or you about the speech that Teddy Roosevelt made in regads to immigrants back in 1907. WHY? because their sorry a$$'s have no desire to learn about the American way of life. I think we as Americans should boycott all places (Lowes,Walmart etc) that advertise in English and in spanish!! Here is that speech by Teddy Roosevelt.
____________



Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.


"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Root for the Home Team or get the hell out of the stadium!!
http://joemonahansnewmexico.blogspot.com/uploaded_images/American%20flag%209-1-722003.jpg

[CyFallsMom]

Rebel84 - you are my new best friend - I couldn't have said it better.

[Rebel84]

Just sick of it all! And for the record... I am of Mexican Heritage and culture... but I AM AN AMERICAN!!

[Firebird]

Illegal immigrants do pay taxes. First of all, everyone pays sales taxes when they buy something. Second of all, many illegal immigrants are in this country using fake social security cards to obtain employement. Recent estimates are that illegal immigrants pay close to $7 billion dollars a year into Social Security-- money that is then not taken out, because they do not reciece benefits later. Illegal immigrants help to underwrite Social Security for US citizens. Those working this way also have their wages garnsished for federal income tax.

It's a good thing you don't run a large business, Rebel84. Retail chains are in the business of making money, and that includes trying to serve ALL potential customers. I don't understand why this is such a big deal with people. Really, how insecure is someone who feels threatend and offended by the mere sight or sound of a foreign language? Get over it.

Я не хочу читать ваш невежество!!!! Всё, я устал, вы не хотите и не можете понимать правду.

[Firebird]

Well said, Carl! If the illegal immigrants want to have the same rights, constitutional or otherwise, I have a website for them - www.IRS.gov

Check it out and then start sending your money to them if you really want to live here - I have been paying Uncle Sam since 1978 and part of that money has been used to send illegal immigrants to school AND and get free medical help for them as well. I pay a medical premium AND co-pays too. Don't spout all the constitution mumbo jumbo unless we are talking about citizens of this country. People tend to use it as a facade - it's not meant to be that way.

According to the Supreme Court, the Constitution IS about more than just citizens of this country. I am sorry you have diffuculty understanding that.

[ktCarl]

Illegal immigrants do pay taxes.
Я не хочу читать ваш невежество!!!! .

Except the estimated $35 billion per year in Federal Income taxes that they are not paying.

[Firebird]

Yeah, if I ever get into a politcal arguement with Firebird I am quiting and conceding victory right then and there. All he has to do is pop into the thread and say, "It is I, Firebird" and I am done with it. I will drop it.


Don't feet that way, Seguin. That is not my intent here. Neither I nor anyone else has all the correct answers to politcal and societal questions, all the time (as evidenced by the fact that I have changed my own mind on this very subject not too long ago.) There is room in the marketplace of ideas for compteting philosphies and solutions... in fact, we should be most afraid when there is NO dissent.

Just take the time to educate yourself and understand what is going on around you. Don't let rhetoric and propoganda (left wing or right wing) serve as a substitute for examination. Take the time to understand the "mumbo-jumbo" that so many people don't bother with, even though it is not as fun and not as good TV as shouting propogandists.

[CyFallsMom]

Really, how insecure is someone who feels threatend and offended by the mere sight or sound of a foreign language? Get over it.

That really seems to bother you - no, I am most definitely not insecure - those who know me will attest to that. I'm just an American first and FOR Americans first. It's about time we stood up for US and not all these other countries - we need to take care of our own before it's too late...those who are citizens, who were born here or who are otherwise legally living here. I think 911 taught us a little about that.

And Sales Tax is not nearly the same as $10,000 in property taxes or $25,000 going to the IRS...not the same I'm afraid so there is no argument there.

[Rebel84]

Like I posted before!

Root For The Home Team Or Get The Hell Out Of The Stadium!!

http://joemonahansnewmexico.blogspot.com/uploaded_images/American%20flag%209-1-722003.jpg

[Firebird]

That really seems to bother you - no, I am most definitely not insecure - those who know me will attest to that. I'm just an American first and FOR Americans first. It's about time we stood up for US and not all these other countries - we need to take care of our own before it's too late...those who are citizens, who were born here or who are otherwise legally living here. I think 911 taught us a little about that.

And Sales Tax is not nearly the same as $10,000 in property taxes or $25,000 going to the IRS...not the same I'm afraid so there is no argument there.

Like the rest of my post said, most illegal immigrants pay far more than simply sales taxes. They pay property taxes, and many have their wages garnished for income tax. But, even if all of the illegal immigrants' jobs were held by American citizens, it would cost you MORE money, not less. Why-- becuase the vast majority of illegal immigrants work in jobs that do not earn enough to pay income tax on. However, the average illegal immigrant household recieves LESS (not more) government dollars than the average citizen's home. So if all American unskilled workers were doing those jobs, you would actually be paying more social welfare dollars. In addition, simply adding up the total tax dollars brought in, then subtracting expenditures does not accurately measure the fiscal footprint of illegal immigration. The American economy receives net benefit from the presence of illegal workers.

And actually, 9-11 taught me nothing whatsoever about Latin American illegal immigration. Those attacks were carried out by middle easterners, who entered the country through Canada on valid American visas.

And yes, it does bother me that you think that you have the "right" not to hear or see foreign languages. It is a good thing that our founding fathers didn't share your prejudices. And I stand by my postion--- if you are that bothered by another culture, you are probably very insecure about yours.

[yankee]

Like the rest of my post said, most illegal immigrants pay far more than simply sales taxes. They pay property taxes, and many have their wages garnished for income tax. But, even if all of the illegal immigrants' jobs were held by American citizens, it would cost you MORE money, not less. Why-- becuase the vast majority of illegal immigrants work in jobs that do not earn enough to pay income tax on. However, the average illegal immigrant household recieves LESS (not more) government dollars than the average citizen's home. So if all American unskilled workers were doing those jobs, you would actually be paying more social welfare dollars. In addition, simply adding up the total tax dollars brought in, then subtracting expenditures does not accurately measure the fiscal footprint of illegal immigration. The American economy receives net benefit from the presence of illegal workers.

And actually, 9-11 taught me nothing whatsoever about Latin American illegal immigration. Those attacks were carried out by middle easterners, who entered the country through Canada on valid American visas.

And yes, it does bother me that you think that you have the "right" not to hear or see foreign languages. It is a good thing that our founding fathers didn't share your prejudices. And I stand by my postion--- if you are that bothered by another culture, you are probably very insecure about yours.
uh... un problemo senor. key word being theyre illegal. right there, they shouldnt even have to pay taxes, they should be in jail or something because "illegal" is a crime. and second off, cyfallsmom is not insecure about her own culture, as stated above that she is quite proud to be an american.

[drgnbkr]

Illegal immigrants.....We have to shut down the border, start deporting the ones here illegally and then start an orderly process of immigration....? I think I got it...right?

[Sacred Ground]

Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.


"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907


Brilliant! Didn't he also say "Speak softly and carry a big stick."

This is part of the foundation upon which this country was built. The foundation has long been ignored and is crumbling. When the foundation crumbles, the house built upon it will fall.

[Firebird]

Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.


"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907


Brilliant! Didn't he also say "Speak softly and carry a big stick."

This is part of the foundation upon which this country was built. The foundation has long been ignored and is crumbling. When the foundation crumbles, the house built upon it will fall.

I have a huge problem with this. It is all well and good to insist that Mexican-Americans (or African-Americans, or any Americans) drop any other allegiances and they will be fully accepted into as an American. The problem with that is that the established American society for the better part of its existnece refused to extend that option.

Black Americans (and to a lesser extent, Mexican-American and other Latin American citizens) were treated as second class citizens BY LAW well into the second half of this century. We refused to recognize them, even those who were citizens, as "Americans" in the same sense we ....white Americans...were. They were forced to attend segregated, subpar schools. They were confined to seperate areas of town. Any attempt to improve their lot was met with hostility, anger, and violence. Is it any wonder, therefore, that these groups formed their own distinct identity outside of mainstream American society? Mainstream American society refused to admit them into the fold, so they created their own.

Now, mainstream American society says that they are ready to accept them, as long as they surrender old allegiences. Sorry, doesn't work that way. We played a huge role in forming these identies. Now, we have to live with the ramifications.

[CyFallsMom]

Black Americans (and to a lesser extent, Mexican-American and other Latin American citizens) were treated as second class citizens BY LAW well into the second half of this century. We refused to recognize them, even those who were citizens, as "Americans" in the same sense we ....white Americans...were. They were forced to attend segregated, subpar schools. They were confined to seperate areas of town. Any attempt to improve their lot was met with hostility, anger, and violence. Is it any wonder, therefore, that these groups formed their own distinct identity outside of mainstream American society? Mainstream American society refused to admit them into the fold, so they created their own.

Finally, you say something I agree with. I don't agree with your assesment of me being insecure with my culture - My culture is American and Texan and there is no better culture to be a part of (and a LEGAL part of at that). I come from a line of English, Irish, Choctaw Indian and German ancestors, many of whom began this American culture and at least two who were original anglo settlers to Texas. I am not insecure at all - you are reading something that isn't there. I just know we have to take back our country, our way of life, our security, etc. and I KNOW I'm not the only one who feels this way judging by the conversations I've had with friends and even total strangers.

Now as to the comment I do agree with. When I was in elementary and going to segregated schools, I didn't see any body at school who wasn't white and there were some hispanic kids as well whose families had been here as long as mine had and they were good kids too. When the black kids were finally allowed to come to our school, we didn't realize what we had been missing - they were great kids. Very nice, respectful kids and they fit in quite nicely with us. I wouldn't want it any other way than for all kids of all races and colors to be going to school together and living in this fine country - as long as they ARE LEGAL and you are the one who seems insecure with that. That's the basis for the whole reform - it isn't that they want to kick anyone who isn't white out - they want those who aren't legal to become so or go back to their home country.

911 is a partial reason for this reform whether you want to believe it or not. A terrorist can be anybody, from any country. As long as these people keep climbing fences and getting in unnoticed, you take the chance. Oh, and I'm pretty sure terrorists from the middle east can go to Mexico and do the same thing if they are so inclined.

[slorch]

Illegal immigrants do pay taxes. First of all, everyone pays sales taxes when they buy something. Second of all, many illegal immigrants are in this country using fake social security cards to obtain employement. Recent estimates are that illegal immigrants pay close to $7 billion dollars a year into Social Security-- money that is then not taken out, because they do not reciece benefits later. Illegal immigrants help to underwrite Social Security for US citizens. Those working this way also have their wages garnsished for federal income tax.

It's a good thing you don't run a large business, Rebel84. Retail chains are in the business of making money, and that includes trying to serve ALL potential customers. I don't understand why this is such a big deal with people. Really, how insecure is someone who feels threatend and offended by the mere sight or sound of a foreign language? Get over it.

Я не хочу читать ваш невежество!!!! Всё, я устал, вы не хотите и не можете понимать правду.
SOME illegal immigrants pay taxes.
My employer in High school and college payed illegals cash for work, then they applied for(and expected) government aid.

I don't care about someone speaking Spanish, German, or whatever if we are shopping or out to eat, but when they do it in your presence in a work setting or at school it is totally disrespectful. It is more about manners with me than the fact that I am not fluent in Spanish.

I learned alot more Spanish from working with illegals than I ever did in school. One time I was in the mall in Lubbock and these 3 Hispanic kids were making fun of my High & Tight haircut, talking about how short it was and how it probably correlated to my manhood( this was all in Spanish) I then answered in Spanish, " My hair may be short, but I have a big gun in the car!" They couldn't believe a Gringo answered them in Spanish. They busted out laughing and shook my hand.

I agree, some people would do well to learn Spanish, and/ or stop being so insecure.
I also say many illegals and 1st and even 2nd generation immigrants have divided allegiences. This is where I have an issue. Either be glad to be here and contribute, become part of this great country, or go back to where you came from.

[dragons08]

Illegal immigrants.....We have to shut down the border, start deporting the ones here illegally and then start an orderly process of immigration....? I think I got it...right?
yeah i guess..

id like to see a stat that shows the crime rate, and how many of those crimes were done by illegals

[yankee]

Illegal immigrants.....We have to shut down the border, start deporting the ones here illegally and then start an orderly process of immigration....? I think I got it...right?
you pretty much just got it right. now just cross your fingers that this law passes, which it doesnt look like it will.

[slorch]

you pretty much just got it right. now just cross your fingers that this law passes, which it doesnt look like it will.
wow, another law they would be breaking... i bet we see alot of change from passing another law

[lonny23]

SOME illegal immigrants pay taxes.
My employer in High school and college payed illegals cash for work, then they applied for(and expected) government aid.

I don't care about someone speaking Spanish, German, or whatever if we are shopping or out to eat, but when they do it in your presence in a work setting or at school it is totally disrespectful. It is more about manners with me than the fact that I am not fluent in Spanish.

I learned alot more Spanish from working with illegals than I ever did in school. One time I was in the mall in Lubbock and these 3 Hispanic kids were making fun of my High & Tight haircut, talking about how short it was and how it probably correlated to my manhood( this was all in Spanish) I then answered in Spanish, " My hair may be short, but I have a big gun in the car!" They couldn't believe a Gringo answered them in Spanish. They busted out laughing and shook my hand.

I agree, some people would do well to learn Spanish, and/ or stop being so insecure.
I also say many illegals and 1st and even 2nd generation immigrants have divided allegiences. This is where I have an issue. Either be glad to be here and contribute, become part of this great country, or go back to where you came from.
It also hurts me to see divided loyalties, but I have 2 perspectives that might make a few people feel better.

1. As time goes by, the immigrants get more acclimated to the U.S. Loyalties start to erode the longer you're away from a place. Eventually, they become Americans.

2. The guys in the military know this one. It doesn't matter where you live or how long you've been away. All of us say we're from someplace besides where we live at the time. My loyalty to Texas never ceased when I lived outside the state from 1991-2001. I worked with a guy at Randolph AFB who still claims New Jersey. He was an immigrant from Cuba as a kid and spent 20 years in the Air Force before spending about the last 12-13 years working as a civilian in Texas. He was also stationed at Randolph in the Air Force and spent more time in Texas than anyplace else, but claims New Jersey. I would tease him and tell him he was really a Texan!:p