Where's the 9/11 Conspiracy link?

[ktCarl]

It appears that Charlie Sheen has swallowed that 9/11 conspiracy story that we discussed a month or two ago hook, line and sinker. He really thinks the Pres. ordered the Twin Towers to be brought down. The Sheen family should be growing tomatoes on a funny farm.

[lonny23]

It appears that Charlie Sheen has swallowed that 9/11 conspiracy story that we discussed a month or two ago hook, line and sinker. He really thinks the Pres. ordered the Twin Towers to be brought down. The Sheen family should be growing tomatoes on a funny farm.
I'm not here to spin anything for a certain political element, but my .02 is that those in power in many organizations are corrupt politically and monetarily and will stop at nothing to get what they want. In other words, I think the majority of us are liers and cheats and the bigger the person, the more corrupt they are.

[ktCarl]

I'm not here to spin anything for a certain political element, but my .02 is that those in power in many organizations are corrupt politically and monetarily and will stop at nothing to get what they want. In other words, I think the majority of us are liers and cheats and the bigger the person, the more corrupt they are.


I may agree with some of your statement but I personally found too many holes in this conspiracy theory.

[lonny23]

I may agree with some of your statement but I personally found too many holes in this conspiracy theory.
I watched both videos and there are definitely questions to be asked. The fact that people can doctor videos does make you think twice about what they say in those videos.

[ktCarl]

What I want to know is who stole my Reese's peanut butter cups?
That's a conspiracy of epic proportions!

[LUFPAN]

If everyone is referring to those videos that there was a link to in this forum a few weeks ago.....they were bogus.

1.If they were true the Liberals would have used them to publically crucify the President.

2. I have a little insite into the rocket / missile / things that go boom world. The supposed "flash" prior to impact was faked and not a missile. There was no smoke signal visible with the flash ,and I assure you that there would have been, there was no visible shrapnel from the missile impact prior to the plane impact and there should have been massive amounts of glass spraying out uniformly from the point of impact. It was nothing more than a nice bit of video editing.

The people responsible for this are still living in caves in Afghanistan.

And just in case anyone is doubting this....

We did indeed go to the moon.

Elvis is dead.

JFK was shot by a highly motivated, military (Marine) trained marksman and nobody else.

I think that about covers the main ones...of course there's still BigFoot, UFOs and the Loch Ness Monster.

[stevefoxsc]

there are so many of them but i'll try to find the originals

[stevefoxsc]

theres the thread,

http://www.5atexasfootball.com/forum/vB/showthread.php?t=6252 ill grab other links if your really interested in doing your home work

penn and teller one
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7501020220921158523&q=********%21

http://gprime.net/flash.php/911pentagonstrikeconspiracy another good one


The top link is the only one logically understandable it has what the bottom link guest speakers lack no eveidence or all that analyzing junk


Heres a really long one but brings up points like the top one
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8260059923762628848&q=loose+change

Somthing with cnn http://www.infowarsmedia.com/video/n...060322_tag.wmv
http://www.filelodge.com/files/hdd6/126374/V.wmv and another
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6714356054823827684&q=secret+evil personally the top ones are the best out of most of these.

i dont know what to say about this one pretty pointless http://www.muchosucko.com/video-religiousmadness.html

hope these help ya

[SVite]

I watched both videos and there are definitely questions to be asked. The fact that people can doctor videos does make you think twice about what they say in those videos.


I just wonder how the people feel that had that huge airplane almost touch them going over rush hour , on the washinton freeway? That ringing in their ears was just all their imaginations!;)

[Firebird]

I really don't want to rehash my point of view about all this, but here is a link to the Popular Mechanics article that neatly answers all of the "questions" surrounding 9/11 and rebutts the conspiracy theories.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html

Caution: This article actually investigates the events. If you don't want to read the opinions of people like engineers, physicists, etc, then stay away. You will be better served by the conspiracy tapes floating around out there.

[Firebird]

I'm not here to spin anything for a certain political element, but my .02 is that those in power in many organizations are corrupt politically and monetarily and will stop at nothing to get what they want. In other words, I think the majority of us are liers and cheats and the bigger the person, the more corrupt they are.


Corrupt? Sure. I don't think you can make a case that any of our Presidents were pure as the driven snow. But it is a long way from corrupt to pure evil, which is what you would have to be to engineer the murder of 3,000+ of your own countrymen for dubious political gain.

Will anybody here make the argument that, in the long run, 9/11 has helped GW Bush?

[RocklandDragon]

How sad. Hollywood celebrities hate George W. Bush so much, they spew this nonsense. :mad:

I just hate that MSNBC and CNN give these celebrites a platform and are never challenged to justify their claim. I believe Hollywood is resentful for the fact that their opinions do not captivate the American public to embrace their viewpoints. Apparently, it used to.

In fact, thanks to Michael Moore and Moveon.org for being the face of the Democratic party, the Republicans were able to GAIN seats in The House AND the Senate. Bush was able to stay in the White House.

Has anyone here watched Farenheit 911? I have...

[dragons08]

where is it?? hmm, it wasnt my turn to watch it

[stevefoxsc]

How sad. Hollywood celebrities hate George W. Bush so much, they spew this nonsense. :mad:

I just hate that MSNBC and CNN give these celebrites a platform and are never challenged to justify their claim. I believe Hollywood is resentful for the fact that their opinions do not captivate the American public to embrace their viewpoints. Apparently, it used to.

In fact, thanks to Michael Moore and Moveon.org for being the face of the Democratic party, the Republicans were able to GAIN seats in The House AND the Senate. Bush was able to stay in the White House.

Has anyone here watched Farenheit 911? I have...

actually those videos posted are made by everyday average teenagers. Infact most people haven't seen those.

[SVite]

How sad. Hollywood celebrities hate George W. Bush so much, they spew this nonsense. :mad:

I just hate that MSNBC and CNN give these celebrites a platform and are never challenged to justify their claim. I believe Hollywood is resentful for the fact that their opinions do not captivate the American public to embrace their viewpoints. Apparently, it used to.

In fact, thanks to Michael Moore and Moveon.org for being the face of the Democratic party, the Republicans were able to GAIN seats in The House AND the Senate. Bush was able to stay in the White House.

Has anyone here watched Farenheit 911? I have...


amen! Like americans are stupid and want to jump on the hollywood angle bandwagon!!! LOL.. It`s sad but many like that twisted no foundation non Holy wood angle:confused:

[ktCarl]

Thanks for all of your input and the re-posting of the links. I had already put this conspiracy theory to the test when it was first posted a while back. I only wanted to re-hash it because now Charlie Sheen is going public with these conspiracy nuts as I witnessed two nights ago on the boob tube. Looks like Charlie is following in the steps of his daddy.

[lonny23]

Corrupt? Sure. I don't think you can make a case that any of our Presidents were pure as the driven snow. But it is a long way from corrupt to pure evil, which is what you would have to be to engineer the murder of 3,000+ of your own countrymen for dubious political gain.

Will anybody here make the argument that, in the long run, 9/11 has helped GW Bush?
9/11 did help GW get elected egain because the public typically votes Republican when it comes time to fight or protect the country.

Even without 9/11, GW stood a good chance to win in 2004. The Democrats were too stupid and nominated John Kerry. You're not going to win states in the South with a guy from Massachusetts. Kerry is not as likable and personable as Bush and couldn't beat him out in those swing states. People voted for Clinton because they liked him and he had a personality. They knew he was a lier, but they think all politicians and people lie so it didn't matter. Reagan won Democrat states just because people liked him.

Hillary Clinton will steal some neutral and Republican women votes if she runs in 2008. Some people admitted they voted for her in the Senate because she was a woman. I said this sometime last year and I heard it on the radio on Sunday night. The Republicans need to trot out Condoleeza Rice to combat Hillary. The guy on the radio didn't want her for President, but he said they should put her up for VP. Even when 2 men are running for President, women vote Democratic more often than men, while men go more Republican. Hillary won't win if she has a black woman on the other side. Rice will be able to steal some of the black vote that always goes to the Democrats.

BTW, most states are already decided long before an election is run. There aren't that many states that go back and forth for President. I'll list how things go below with electoral votes:

Republican

Alaska 3 (Always red.)
Idaho 4 (Red all the way.)
Montana 3 (Red.)
Wyoming 3 (Everytime.)
Utah 5 (Red always.)
Arizona 10 (Red all over except for a few counties)
North Dakota 3 (Red.)
South Dakota 3 (Staying Republican.)
Nebraska 5 (Red.)
Kansas 6 (Red.)
Oklahoma 7 (Strong red.)
Texas 34 (Sorry, blue guys.)
Indiana 11 (Strong red.)
Missouri 11 (St. Louis and KC can't offset rest.)
Arkansas 6 (Bill Clinton couldn't even get a win for Gore. Some chance for blue if Clinton, but no Rice.)
Louisiana 9 (Red.)
Mississippi 6 (Going red, but quite a few blue counties.)
Alabama 9 (Strong red in most counties.)
Florida 27 (I think 2000 was close with an unknown Bush and VP Gore.)
Georgia 15 (Dems don't have enough strong spots to make blue.)
South Carolina 8 (Red.)
North Carolina 15 (Red, with some good blue pockets.)
Tennessee 11 (Gore couldn't even win here.)
Kentucky 8 (Going red most years.)
Virginia 13 (Not a landslide, but red.)
West Virginia 5 (Not a blowout, though.)

Democrat

Hawaii 4 (Always.)
Washington 11 (And she's blue, but closer than other years in 2004.)
Oregon 7 (Blue state getting stonger.)
California 55 (Metro SF/Oakland/San Jose, coast, and LA County.)
Minnesota 10 (Blue almost everytime.)
Illinois 21 (Chicago wins it everytime.)
Michigan 17 (Blue almost everytime.)
Washington, D.C. 3 (Always.)
Maryland 10 (Miracle if not blue.)
Delaware 3 (New Castle county makes the difference.)
New Jersey 15 (Blue almost everytime.)
New York 31 (Blue everytime.)
Connecticut 7 (Most towns go Democratic.)
Rhode Island 4 (Rhode Island blue, not red.)
Massachusetts 12 (Everytime.)
Vermont 3 (Blue.)
Maine 4 (Unless Mitt Romney is running for Pres.)

Tossup

Nevada 5 (Because of Vegas new residents. Red in the past.)
New Mexico 5 (A real tossup. Red in 2004, but I think a stronger blue state.)
Colorado 9 (Traditionally Republican, but new populace can make this a blue state.)
Wisconsin 10 (Close the last 2 times, but mostly blue.)
Iowa 7 (A tossup most years.)
Ohio 20 (Red state, but can be blue.)
Pennsylvania 21 (Blue state, but can be red.)
New Hampshire 4 (Votes both ways.)

That's 26-17, with 8 tossups going into 2008. These numbers can change a little depending upon who the top 2 guys on the ticket are for each party, but it's the basic voting patterns of the country.

The current numbers are:

240 Republican
217 Democrat
81 Tossup

You need 270 to win.

[GoOwls]

The worst thing that could happen for the Democrats is if Hillary gets the nomination. It would galvanize the Republicans and give the independents a reason to vote, Republican that is.:D

[Firebird]

My polisci professor had a theory that the both the first black, and the first woman president would be Republican. The theory was that the idea of electing a minority or woman president would be such a radical change, that the country wouldn't go for unless the candidate was conservative personally.

Don't know if I would lay money down on it, but it seems to make sense. I just don't see anyone having the starpower to match Hilary. Plus, so many people won't really be voting for her, they will be voting for Clinton.

If Hilary was to win in 2008, consider this for a moment.

1988-1992 Pres. George H.W. Bush
1992-2000 Pres. William Jefforson Clinton
2000-2008 Pres. George W. Bush
2008- 2012? Pres. Hilary Clinton

Sure beginning to look like the US has a de facto aristocracy. That is 22 years of two families controlling the Oval Office. Also remember that Bush I was VP under Reagan.

[Firebird]

The worst thing that could happen for the Democrats is if Hillary gets the nomination. It would galvanize the Republicans and give the independents a reason to vote, Republican that is.:D


It would be a gamble, no doubt. Hilary would bring back into the fold some of the blue collar dems that left the party because of increasing liberalness (socially). She is going to remind them of the good times they enjoyed under Bill. Plus, she will lure some Republican Women voters away, and she has the entire left wing already in her corner.

[Reaganrattler07]

Democrats ran Kerry cause they wanted Hilary in '08. Cause if Kerry got in, Hilary would be put of until 2012. And that may be too long for the her.

[lonny23]

My polisci professor had a theory that the both the first black, and the first woman president would be Republican. The theory was that the idea of electing a minority or woman president would be such a radical change, that the country wouldn't go for unless the candidate was conservative personally.

Don't know if I would lay money down on it, but it seems to make sense. I just don't see anyone having the starpower to match Hilary. Plus, so many people won't really be voting for her, they will be voting for Clinton.

If Hilary was to win in 2008, consider this for a moment.

1988-1992 Pres. George H.W. Bush
1992-2000 Pres. William Jefforson Clinton
2000-2008 Pres. George W. Bush
2008- 2012? Pres. Hilary Clinton

Sure beginning to look like the US has a de facto aristocracy. That is 22 years of two families controlling the Oval Office. Also remember that Bush I was VP under Reagan.
That's not a bad theory by your professor. Conservatives don't do well in liberal states and liberals don't do well in conservative states.

I told you how states break down, but there's a story within the story:

Counties with indian reservations by and large vote Democrat.

Majority Hispanic counties vote Democrat.

Industrialized areas with big union membership vote Democrat.

Inner cities vote Democrat.

Oregon, Washington, and California west of the San Andreas Fault vote Democrat. The rest of the states vote Repuiblican.

Counties with the main state university vote Democrat more often than not (35 of 51).

Counties with the state capital have more of a tendency to vote Democrat (29 of 51).

Ski resort counties vote Democrat.

About 80% of all counties in the nation vote Republican, but bigger counties in many states keep the election close and wins states for Democrats.

Quite a few counties along the Missisippi and Ohio Rivers in Republican states vote Democrat. I can only guess that decendents of slaves stayed where their ancestors lived or fled to in search of freedom.

[Firebird]

That's not a bad theory by your professor. Conservatives don't do well in liberal states and liberals don't do well in conservative states.

I told you how states break down, but there's a story within the story:

Counties with indian reservations by and large vote Democrat.

Majority Hispanic counties vote Democrat.

Industrialized areas with big union membership vote Democrat.

Inner cities vote Democrat.

Oregon, Washington, and California west of the San Andreas Fault vote Democrat. The rest of the states vote Repuiblican.

Counties with the main state university vote Democrat more often than not (35 of 51).

Counties with the state capital have more of a tendency to vote Democrat (29 of 51).

Ski resort counties vote Democrat.

About 80% of all counties in the nation vote Republican, but bigger counties in many states keep the election close and wins states for Democrats.

Quite a few counties along the Missisippi and Ohio Rivers in Republican states vote Democrat. I can only guess that decendents of slaves stayed where their ancestors lived or fled to in search of freedom.

The Hispanic vote is going to be THE big fight in upcoming years. Hispanics already have supplanted blacks as the nation's largest minority, and are still growing. Though usually Democratic, they are not solid yet, and as they move upwards socially, they are far more likely than blacks to forget old political alliances. Socially, they are by far a better fit with the Republican Party. There is a good reason Bush has not wanted to crack down on immigration like some in the party want him too. This is a wise move. The Republican Party is not going to survive too much longer unless it expands its base beyond the traditional Christian, White, non-metropolitan base.


Hispanic immigrants are defying some of the dire predictions by those on the far right. Subsequent generations are indeed learning English, and adapting well to American culture, while retaining a sense of identity. A quick whirl around the RGV is illustrative. Those Hispanics whose familes have been in the US 2 generations or more share far more in common culturally with Anglo US citizens than recent immigrants. It is not uncommon at all to find Mexican American High School students who know no more Spanish than their Anglo classmates-- in fact it is becoming more common. Hispanics disproportionatly enlist in the armed services, and even recent immigrants are eager to serve their adopted homeland in return for the benefits provided. National Security and strong defense plays well among Hispanic voters. Primarily Hispanic, Protestant churches are swelling, and Hispanic Catholics tend to be more socially and religously conservative than white northern Catholics.

Republicans, if they control some of the nationalistic, anti-immigration sentiment coming from certain segments of the party, have a good chance to make strong inroads with Hispanic voters, especially as the Hispanic population becomes more established in the US.

[dragons08]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDh_pvv1tUM&feature=Favorites&page=2&t=t&f=b

pretty sad clip right there, helps us remember the events of 911

[lonny23]

The Hispanic vote is going to be THE big fight in upcoming years. Hispanics already have supplanted blacks as the nation's largest minority, and are still growing. Though usually Democratic, they are not solid yet, and as they move upwards socially, they are far more likely than blacks to forget old political alliances. Socially, they are by far a better fit with the Republican Party. There is a good reason Bush has not wanted to crack down on immigration like some in the party want him too. This is a wise move. The Republican Party is not going to survive too much longer unless it expands its base beyond the traditional Christian, White, non-metropolitan base.


Hispanic immigrants are defying some of the dire predictions by those on the far right. Subsequent generations are indeed learning English, and adapting well to American culture, while retaining a sense of identity. A quick whirl around the RGV is illustrative. Those Hispanics whose familes have been in the US 2 generations or more share far more in common culturally with Anglo US citizens than recent immigrants. It is not uncommon at all to find Mexican American High School students who know no more Spanish than their Anglo classmates-- in fact it is becoming more common. Hispanics disproportionatly enlist in the armed services, and even recent immigrants are eager to serve their adopted homeland in return for the benefits provided. National Security and strong defense plays well among Hispanic voters. Primarily Hispanic, Protestant churches are swelling, and Hispanic Catholics tend to be more socially and religously conservative than white northern Catholics.

Republicans, if they control some of the nationalistic, anti-immigration sentiment coming from certain segments of the party, have a good chance to make strong inroads with Hispanic voters, especially as the Hispanic population becomes more established in the US.
That's true.

I was going back through all the counties and how they voted in 2004 and Cameron County (Brownsville/Harlingen) voted for Bush. The rest of the Valley, El Paso, Presidio, and other majority Hispanic counties voted for Kerry, but none of them are at the level of what the black vote is for Democrats. Clinton was big on not cracking down on immigration to get the Hispanic vote, also.