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mike03car
11-09-2010, 08:09 AM
What a play! I hope this isn't deleted because it was done at a middle school versus 5A High School. Maybe move to another forum if apropos. This was an absolutely brilliant and perfectly legal use of the letter of the rules.

http://www.totalprosports.com/2010/11/08/texas-middle-school-pulls-off-unthinkable-trick-play-video/

TXMike
11-11-2010, 05:35 AM
What a play! I hope this isn't deleted because it was done at a middle school versus 5A High School. Maybe move to another forum if apropos. This was an absolutely brilliant and perfectly legal use of the letter of the rules.

http://www.totalprosports.com/2010/11/08/texas-middle-school-pulls-off-unthinkable-trick-play-video/
Uhhhhh...no....it was not legal. There are 2 issues on the play. One is a close call. The other one is clearly a foul.

The snap - According to NCAA rules (which are what we use in Texas schoolboy football), the snap has to be a "quick and continuous motion" . Furthermore, the ball cannot be lifted or moved forward before it starts moving backward. Many officials (not all) who have seen this video have stated they believe the ball was lifted before it was moved backwards. Furthermore, they believe the ball was held in the air momentarily by the snapper before he released it to the QB. That would be just as illegal if he snapped it between his legs and held it up against his butt momentarily before releasing it.

The play - The play is clearly illegal as it used the ball as part of a scheme to deceive/confuse. This is no different than the "wrong ball" play. It is an unsportsmanlike conduct foul. STories on this play and the interview of teh coach on many TV shows has revealed that there was more going on than just what the video shows. The defense had just been penalized for offside. The coach called for "The Penalty Play" to be run. That "play" has him yelling at the QB and refs that the refs had not marked off enough yardage on the penalty and for the QB to give the ball to the ref so more could be marked off. The QB told the snapper to give him the ball. The defense believed the ball was going to be given to the refs so did not react. The NCAA Rules Editor has previously advised us that anytime a team uses tactics like this to make it appear the snap is not imminent, it is a foul.

Many will say "But the refs didn't flag!!! How could it be illegal?" My answer is how many games do you watch where you see things that you think should be flagged but they are not? I suspect fairly often.

mike03car
11-11-2010, 09:28 AM
Many will say "But the refs didn't flag!!! How could it be illegal?" My answer is how many games do you watch where you see things that you think should be flagged but they are not? I suspect fairly often. LOL what "many" are you referring? Less than 0.5% of the nation think sports officials flag catch all illegals. Sports officials are the most abused persons in the nation (within government laws).

As far as everything else goes - if there is something slightly illegal - congratulations, you have earned level 48 Beurecrat ! You have learned to take the fun out of America's game ! Next up, how to determine what is an avoidable head shot against a defensive player and what is not.

TXMike
11-12-2010, 05:59 AM
The coaches write the rules , not officials. And they are the ones who tweak them everytime one of their own gets "innovative" The issues on this play were dealt with long ago and the rules written to make it illegal to do some of the things done here. If the only way you can have "fun" in a football game is by cheating then perhaps you should find another sport, like pro wrestling, roller derby, etc

mike03car
11-12-2010, 07:23 AM
Well guess what, pahdnuh? Deception does not equal cheating. No more than a fake handoff does not equal cheating. Go ahead and cry foul that the ball was held for the quarterback to take instead of a continuous motion; which was barely for any time at all. Flagging that would have been as anal as calling each and every possible offensive holding.

There was nothing wrong with this play when this same coach did it as a 7th grader (credited his coach of that time) and there's still nothing wrong with it. Although like most Texans you were probably happy to see Oklahoma lose to Boise State in that bowl game a few years back, I bet you didn't mind the legal trickery to do it.

TXMike
11-12-2010, 09:40 AM
Sucks to be wrong doesn't it?

mike03car
11-12-2010, 10:33 AM
#1 - I dont have an issue with being incorrect. #2 - specify.

edit: won't see this likely until the hotel after the arlington-abilene game. leaving home in a moment.

TXMike
11-12-2010, 12:36 PM
As the training coordinator for TASO Football I will take my own advice often given to our refs around the state and NOT argue with a fan.

mike03car
12-27-2010, 07:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdk1gwWH-Cg