NFL QBs

[BlakeJ]

I was having this discussion with some guys back home. How do the Steelers win football games without Big Ben??

Imagine...

Colts with Curtis Painter.
Saints with that SLC dude.
Dan Orlovsky led Texans.
The ever feared Matt Flynn and his Packers.
We all saw the capabilities of Kitna when the defense is trying.

I could name about 16 teams who if missing their QB would reduce their win total by half...why not the Steelers?

I've always thought that Big Ben got way to much credit for Steelers wins...and especially the first Super Bowl.

In your opinion...is Big Ben overrated if labeled one of the leagues elite QBs?? Dont get me wrong...I think he is good...but elite?? NO!

[BlakeJ]

FYI....Ben doesnt come even kind of close statistically to the guys I think are elite...not even in sniffing distance outside of QB rating which i think is a garbage stat anyhow. QB Rating means that Chad Pennington is one of the best QBs ever...lol. Ben has far less Yards and TDs then the top guys but has more turnovers by far than most all.

[yankee]

the steelers were dead last in the NFL in passing without big ben.

since coming back, ben has passed for almost 600 yards in 2 games.

is he elite? he's pretty close to it...i don't put him in the same company as manning, brady, or brees...but he does make the steelers THAT much better. he can improv with the best of them.

[SLC93]

I think he's in the good to very good category. He benefits from playing for an organization that is well run, committed to the running game and plays tremendous defense. I can say that I think he gets way too much pub for being a 2 time, SB winning quarterback. He had nothing to do with the first ring on his finger. Obviously he was more important and a big factor in the second but I found his performance to be uninspired against Arizona. He didn't step up until Kurt Warner applied the heat. Arizona should not have been in that game, honestly, especially if Ben's unit had performed from the start. He gets careless with the ball too often and lets his mechanics go for stretches, relying on that huge frame to push the ball. Add this to the fact that he is a confirmed ahole, at least until the suspension, and I am decidedly not a fan. There are 5-7 qb's I take before him and as Stafford and Bradford develop and Luck enters he'll continue to slide.

[BlakeJ]

the steelers were dead last in the NFL in passing without big ben.

since coming back, ben has passed for almost 600 yards in 2 games.

is he elite? he's pretty close to it...i don't put him in the same company as manning, brady, or brees...but he does make the steelers THAT much better. he can improv with the best of them.

Yankee....did the Steelers go 3-1 without him?? Im not arguing that Big Ben is better than Charlie Batch...thats a given. But you'd be deeply surprised by the number of QBs who are statistically better than Ben Roethlisberger.

The Steelers were perennial AFC contenders before he was there. They even went to a Super Bowl shortly before...with guys named Bubby Brister, Neil ODonnell, Kordell Stewart, Tommy Maddox. My opinion is that of course he is better than those guys and thats why the Steelers went from AFC title contenders to NFL title contenders with him.

Compare him and his teams success without him to the other names I mentioned. How can you be elite...when your team doesnt even need you to win games?

IMO, There are only a couple of "elite" QBs in the league. After that there are a couple of very good QBs...and then I think you have the category Ben fits in and that is with a number of good QBs.

[yankee]

Yankee....did the Steelers go 3-1 without him?? Im not arguing that Big Ben is better than Charlie Batch...thats a given. But you'd be deeply surprised by the number of QBs who are statistically better than Ben Roethlisberger.



ben had the 5th highest QB rating last year. his first few years in the NFL were largely unimpressive statistically speaking, but he's no longer a game manager. so don't bring those early season stats up.

the steelers went 3-1 because of great defense and a great running game. ben now makes them more dangerous, and easily one of the top 2 or 3 teams in the AFC. i'd put big ben in my top 5-8 QB's in the league.

[mojotrain]

I just barely care about the phoneys in Dallas why would I give a tinkers darn about ben?

[BlakeJ]

ben had the 5th highest QB rating last year. his first few years in the NFL were largely unimpressive statistically speaking, but he's no longer a game manager. so don't bring those early season stats up.

the steelers went 3-1 because of great defense and a great running game. ben now makes them more dangerous, and easily one of the top 2 or 3 teams in the AFC. i'd put big ben in my top 5-8 QB's in the league.

So then you agree...he isnt Elite. There is not 5 "elite" QBs in the league...sorry.

And QB Rating?? Seriously?? Chad Pennington has one of the top 10 QB ratings all time...was he a great QB?? nope. QB rating is a garbage stat.

[yankee]

So then you agree...he isnt Elite. There is not 5 "elite" QBs in the league...sorry.

And QB Rating?? Seriously?? Chad Pennington has one of the top 10 QB ratings all time...was he a great QB?? nope. QB rating is a garbage stat.

now let's look at my first post, to make sure you understand that i never said he was elite.

the steelers were dead last in the NFL in passing without big ben.

since coming back, ben has passed for almost 600 yards in 2 games.

is he elite? he's pretty close to it...i don't put him in the same company as manning, brady, or brees...but he does make the steelers THAT much better. he can improv with the best of them.

not sure how you quantify QB rating as a garbage stat. what aren't garbage stats? yards? ypg? TD:INT ratio? total touchdowns? big ben did pretty well in all of those categories last season.

[DragonFan0316]

Rings talk and :Censor: walks.

[BlakeJ]

now let's look at my first post, to make sure you understand that i never said he was elite.



not sure how you quantify QB rating as a garbage stat. what aren't garbage stats? yards? ypg? TD:INT ratio? total touchdowns? big ben did pretty well in all of those categories last season.

You voted him as being elite. Thats what I was interpretting.

[BlakeJ]

Rings talk and :Censor: walks.

Not really. Can you tell me how he helped win that first ring? If anything he did everything he could to lose it. You might be missing the argument here. We are talking as an individual player...not the Pittsburgh Steelers as a team. :)

[yankee]

You voted him as being elite. Thats what I was interpretting.

i also picked blue taylor to beat katy by 3+ TD's. :heli:

don't trust my polling answers. just interpret what i type, as i think i've made it pretty clear where i stand on big ben.

[BlakeJ]

i also picked blue taylor to beat katy by 3+ TD's. :heli:

don't trust my polling answers. just interpret what i type, as i think i've made it pretty clear where i stand on big ben.

8-3 Ben is not elite.

I'll live with that....but exactly what I expected.

IMO...he is in the Palmer, Eli, Flacco, Ryan, Romo category...good almost very good.

Elite:

Peyton
Brady
Brees

Very Good:

Rodgers
Rivers
McNabb

Good:

Romo
Ben
Eli
Flacco
Schaub
Palmer
Ryan

[slcdragonfan]

8-3 Ben is not elite.

I'll live with that....but exactly what I expected.

IMO...he is in the Palmer, Eli, Flacco, Ryan, Romo category...good almost very good.

Elite:

Peyton
Brady
Brees

Very Good:

Rodgers
Rivers
McNabb

Good:

Romo
Ben
Eli
Flacco
Schaub
Palmer
Ryan

Hopefully you mena both Peytons as elite, cause they are. I'd push Romo up into the "very good" category myself. He isn't elite until they get to the SB IMO.

[rodeocowboy]

8-3 Ben is not elite.

I'll live with that....but exactly what I expected.

IMO...he is in the Palmer, Eli, Flacco, Ryan, Romo category...good almost very good.

Elite:

Peyton
Brady
Brees

Very Good:

Rodgers
Rivers
McNabb

Good:

Romo
Ben
Eli
Flacco
Schaub
Palmer
Ryan

ELITE= PEYTON MANNING
SEMI- ELITE= BRADY & BREES:heli:

[BlakeJ]

Hopefully you mena both Peytons as elite, cause they are. I'd push Romo up into the "very good" category myself. He isn't elite until they get to the SB IMO.

I feel Romo and Ben are both border line very good. I think Romo is very talented...but just in a bad situation. I would take Romo over Ben...I think Romo is superior to Ben talent wise.

[SLC93]

8-3 Ben is not elite.

I'll live with that....but exactly what I expected.

IMO...he is in the Palmer, Eli, Flacco, Ryan, Romo category...good almost very good.

Elite:

Peyton
Brady
Brees

Very Good:

Rodgers
Rivers
McNabb

Good:

Romo
Ben
Eli
Flacco
Schaub
Palmer
Ryan

Personally I would drop McNabb from the very good category. Ben and Romo, to me, fall closer to very good than good. I'm not an Eli fan at all. Flacco is coming around. I dont trust Schaub. Palmer could have been the next Aikman but he landed in Cincy and is now looking like he's paying the price for the years spent there. Ryan's a gamer.

[SLC93]

I feel Romo and Ben are both border line very good. I think Romo is very talented...but just in a bad situation. I would take Romo over Ben...I think Romo is superior to Ben talent wise.

Sorry, responded before I saw this one.