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maxtor
09-08-2010, 08:32 PM
So you're not gonna answer the question. You're gonna bring up Katy, Trinity and whatever other team that has nothing to do with what's being discussed. :confused:

You would have a point if the context was that the expectation of Wasson was to win 79 of 80 games and 4 Titles. But that isnt the case. The context of this is that Wasson did in fact inherit an incredible war chest of a football team and talent and has parlayed that into something far less than what would be expected of such an inheritance.
Alice Walton inherited only 6 Billion dollars instead of 6.2 Billion that brother Jim got. This wouldnt be an excuse for her to be broke now and picking up aluminum cans.

steeler 01
09-08-2010, 08:36 PM
You would have a point if the context was that the expectation of Wasson was to win 79 of 80 games and 4 Titles. But that isnt the case. The context of this is that Wasson did in fact inherit an incredible war chest of a football team and talent and has parlayed that into something far less than what would be expected of such an inheritance.

Nope, my case is a good one. Wasson hasn't had the same amount of talent that Dodge had during his run. You won't dare argue against my point either or you'll get handled pretty easily, and you know it.

mad_fan
09-08-2010, 08:43 PM
a post...
to support the largeness of the thread...

maxtor
09-08-2010, 08:46 PM
Nope, my case is a good one. Wasson hasn't had the same amount of talent that Dodge had during his run. You won't dare argue against my point either or you'll get handled pretty easily, and you know it.

I have never argued that Wasson had as much talent as Dodge as you suppose in error. It isnt required for Wasson to have the same level of talent as Dodge in order to have had a higher success rate that what he has had so far. Again, you would have a point if we were demanding Dodge like results with Wasson like player talent. This isnt the case. It hasnt been suggested that Wasson needs to win Championships 80% of the time.
Its all about proportion.


Edited by "Ill take the high road" Maxtor and not engage in a mud slinging fest.

ray1301
09-08-2010, 09:04 PM
Max, You know you can hold your own against anybody on the board.

My point from the beginning of this thread was you can't stay on top all the time. SLC in the TD years was a perfect storm. Just as Sealy was in the late 90's. For those to expect Wasson to continue to have the type of success in those TD years was unrealistic to say the least but I guess expected. The expectation was, and certainly not from every SLC fan, if you don't win the SHIP then the seasons a bust. I don't really believe that. I think SLC has been successful and maintained as an powerhouse program for the last 3 years.

So SLC has started off rocky. So freakin what! They will recover. Are they mediocre as some have suggested. I don't know. Having one down year does not make you mediocre IMO. now have a string on down years ...yes that would be considered mediocre.

maxtor
09-08-2010, 09:11 PM
Max, You know you can hold your own against anybody on the board.

My point from the beginning of this thread was you can't stay on top all the time. SLC in the TD years was a perfect storm. Just as Sealy was in the late 90's. For those to expect Wasson to continue to have the type of success in those TD years was unrealistic to say the least but I guess expected. The expectation was, and certainly not from every SLC fan, if you don't win the SHIP then the seasons a bust. I don't really believe that. I think SLC has been successful and maintained as an powerhouse program for the last 3 years.

So SLC has started off rocky. So freakin what! They will recover. Are they mediocre as some have suggested. I don't know. Having one down year does not make you mediocre IMO. now have a string on down years ...yes that would be considered mediocre.

Thank you,
Lets suppose for a moment that Dodge never existed and all we have to consider is Wasson and the team that he has inherited. Now compare that with what other teams have!
Even the most ardent defenders of Wasson havent given him props, no pats on the back or offered any 'WOWs'. They just defend him to a minimalist degree to retain his image of a decent coach and a good man.

Montana79
09-08-2010, 09:18 PM
Actually only about 91.7%. Over 8% of the state had better records than SLC in 2009.

For the last 25 years SLC has won 86.1% of their games.

An 11-2 season has a 84.6 win %. So yes, 11-2 sucks for SLC. 11-2 is okay for much of the state but not Southlake. Is this arrogant or off putting? If so, step up your own program or move to one of those Brownstones next to Southlake Town Square.

Wasson has a 79.5% win rate at SLC depite inheriting the crown Jewel of football. And dont let people claim that the war chest was empty when he got here. There was still a pile of talent.

It appears that you have a serious case of "good old day syndrome". I would suggest that the best remedy for that is for you to get a grasp on reality!

toonman
09-08-2010, 09:28 PM
Really, all about talent, Really?

If thats the case then SLC much be an odd place when it comes to talent. I mean, using your rationale and everything. SLC must have had talent in the 80's and 90's under Ledbetter, lost all their talent for 3 years under Rapp, had another wave of talent come in under Dodge's tenure, and lost it again under Wasson (if you want to call 16 D1 schollies in 3 years, no talent).

Was Ledbetter lucky like Dodge? Was Rapp as unlucky as Wasson? LOL!

It all comes down to coaching, period. Wasson had 7 kids sign in 08 and again in 10. Thats hardly a case of a coach with nothing to work with.

As for Dodge, he stayed at his other stops 2 years apiece. I would expect you to know that. Two years at Yoe, Newman Smith, and Fossil Ridge. The 2nd year at every stop the teams were better. Records improved every year. In the early 90's when he was at 3A Yoe, do you think they ever had seen the spread offense. I highly doubt it. You don't walk into a new program, completely change the x's and o's and win, immediately. Its common knowledge, that every coach needs 3-4 years. Same song, different verse with Newman Smith and Fossil Ridge.

Wasson benefitted going to Fossil Ridge a few years after Dodge left, but with the same system in place for several years.

Its funny that Rapp struggled his 3 years at the helm, and Dodge had much more success with the exact same athletes, right away. Dodge's first two years at SLC were a success, but hardly the success he had later on. Did he not have the athletes then? It was his 3rd year that he started the "streak". A 3rd year he didn't have at the other stops. Did SLC not have talent his first 2, then all of a sudden get it? Or did he have time to fully implement his system?

And don't act like Wasson didn't step into a gold mine of talent. Dont blame it on that. 16 kids playing on Saturday's in 3 years is a boatload. The bottom line is that Wasson isn't half the coach Dodge is/was. Neither is the staff he has in place.

Farmer, in your opinion, is it magic that makes the talent at SLC suddenly appear, then disappear, when coaching changes happen? What a mystery!
Or is it the x's and o's.

This is greatness. For a while I thought I was the only one who thought this.

thestomp
09-08-2010, 09:38 PM
The sign of good coaches wiill adapt to what they have and scale it down so their teams can win. Sounds liek Dodge couldn't comprehend that at his other stops and it is why he never had a winning record or playoff birth.
There are a few coaches who are in GA's breath. Lineweaver and Wood to name a few, but thsoe are the great ones, right? So you are saying that Dodge isn't great. I agree.

Dodge was in the regional finals by year 1 and the semis in year 2 so it looks like he was able to do just fine from the start. Hmmm.

What does Abilene and Coach Warren have to do with this discussion? The point of this discussion is that Dodge benefitted from the talent he had at Carroll. MORE so than any othe rcoach in the history of this state has from one school.

Come again though, how many of those kids in the last 3 years have been skill players? Weren't two of them QB's? Isn't the reason Carroll fans say they never won state in '07 due to their QB? Haven't Carroll fans come on and blame the Padron injury in '08 for a factor in their season too?

Now I know you don't have a clue. Thanks for inviting Gordon Wood into the convo!

Using the same criteria to gauge Coach Wood that you use to gauge Dodge, then Gordon Wood wasn't a very good coach.

His first two years as a head coach, at Rule HS he went 2-8, and 3-3-2. WOW. Clearly the man didn't know what he was doing. Then came WWII, and he went on to another program to find modest success. His legend grew only when he was at Brownwood, several years into his head coaching career. I guess he and Dodge are on the same level.

If that's not good enough for you, maybe we can compare Dodge to your former coach Ronny Gage. Ronny Gage is a horrible coach. Lets look at the evidence.

Gage's first head coaching stop was at Justin Northwest (comparable to Newman Smith and Fossil Ridge at the time). All I have is district records. His first year in 1987 he went 0-7, in 1988 he was 3-2-1. After his 1st 2 years he was 3-9-1 in district play alone. His 3rd year he was 6-1-1 and his 4th year he was 5-1. Maybe your 3rd and 4th years pay off, what say you?

Gage became a legend at Lewisville. But according to you, he sucks anyways because his tenure as a college head coach was 13-17. It sucks to use your criteria.

twcpfan1
09-08-2010, 09:44 PM
Where is Paxton, TX? Maybe Pied and JagFan know.

toonman
09-08-2010, 09:47 PM
Now I know you don't have a clue. Thanks for inviting Gordon Wood into the convo!

Using the same criteria to gauge Coach Wood that you use to gauge Dodge, then Gordon Wood wasn't a very good coach.

His first two years as a head coach, at Rule HS he went 2-8, and 3-3-2. WOW. Clearly the man didn't know what he was doing. Then came WWII, and he went on to another program to find modest success. His legend grew only when he was at Brownwood, several years into his head coaching career. I guess he and Dodge are on the same level.

If that's not good enough for you, maybe we can compare Dodge to your former coach Ronny Gage. Ronny Gage is a horrible coach. Lets look at the evidence.

Gage's first head coaching stop was at Justin Northwest (comparable to Newman Smith and Fossil Ridge at the time). All I have is district records. His first year in 1987 he went 0-7, in 1988 he was 3-2-1. After his 1st 2 years he was 3-9-1 in district play alone. His 3rd year he was 6-1-1 and his 4th year he was 5-1. Maybe your 3rd and 4th years pay off, what say you?

Gage became a legend at Lewisville. But according to you, he sucks anyways because his tenure as a college head coach was 13-17. It sucks to use your criteria.

Sir, I wish to congratulate you in that your first 11 posts contain more reasoned common sense than some posters who have more than 20,000 posts.

thestomp
09-08-2010, 09:49 PM
Where is Paxton, TX? Maybe Pied and JagFan know.

LOL. Just a community really. Its in Shelby County, Texas. About 35 minutes from Nacogdoches, and 20 minutes south of Carthage.

dragonsdaddy
09-08-2010, 09:56 PM
Now I know you don't have a clue. Thanks for inviting Gordon Wood into the convo!

Using the same criteria to gauge Coach Wood that you use to gauge Dodge, then Gordon Wood wasn't a very good coach.

His first two years as a head coach, at Rule HS he went 2-8, and 3-3-2. WOW. Clearly the man didn't know what he was doing. Then came WWII, and he went on to another program to find modest success. His legend grew only when he was at Brownwood, several years into his head coaching career. I guess he and Dodge are on the same level.

If that's not good enough for you, maybe we can compare Dodge to your former coach Ronny Gage. Ronny Gage is a horrible coach. Lets look at the evidence.

Gage's first head coaching stop was at Justin Northwest (comparable to Newman Smith and Fossil Ridge at the time). All I have is district records. His first year in 1987 he went 0-7, in 1988 he was 3-2-1. After his 1st 2 years he was 3-9-1 in district play alone. His 3rd year he was 6-1-1 and his 4th year he was 5-1. Maybe your 3rd and 4th years pay off, what say you?

Gage became a legend at Lewisville. But according to you, he sucks anyways because his tenure as a college head coach was 13-17. It sucks to use your criteria.

if by modest success, you mean winning his first state title, at stamford, then i agree. as well as another. in fact your definition of modest is quite immodest at best.

"Coach Wood found his next coaching job at Stamford, Texas High School. His first season in 1951, the Stamford Bulldogs won nine games, but one loss kept them out of the district championship and the state finals. The next year, Stamford went undefeated in the regular season followed by Coach Wood's first ever playoff win. Stamford won two playoff games before losing to Terrell in the state semifinals. Coach Wood ended the 1952 season with thirteen wins and one loss. In 1953, Coach Wood took Stamford through another undefeated season, this time losing to Childress in the state quarterfinals, and ending the 1953 season with eleven wins and one loss. In 1954, Wood had another winning season when Stamford won nine games, but a loss to Colorado City kept them out of the district championship and the state playoffs. That loss would be the last Coach Wood or Stamford would see for the next couple of years.

In 1955, Coach Wood brought Stamford to yet another undefeated season followed by playoff victories. This time Stamford went undefeated in the playoffs ending their season with a 34 to 7 victory over Hillsboro to claim the state championship. The Stamford Bulldogs went undefeated again in 1956, earning Coach Wood back-to-back state championships and extending the team's winning streak to 32 games. The 1957 season started well when three opening victories brought the streak up to 35, but Sweetwater ended Stamford's long years of success with a 24 to 7 defeat over the Bulldogs. A second loss to the Seymour Panthers shut out Stamford's hopes for another district title and another shot at the state crown. The next year Coach Wood moved on to Victoria, while Stamford claimed another set of back-to-back championships in 1958 and 1959. Wood ended his career at Stamford with eighty wins and six losses, a 93% winning record". per wiki

The Observer
09-08-2010, 10:08 PM
Real slow like, for you.

The next one hundred boy children out of the womb @ SL, the next 100 boy children out of the womb in Midland, the next 100 boy children out of the womb in Monahans, the next 100 boy children out of the womb in Tyler will have no more sporting capacity or intellengence capacity than the next 100 boy children out of the womb in Odessa Texas. From the second they hit a towel it's all up to coaching and?or teaching.

Now here comes the really part for ya! It's questions.

Do you think more talent is born in Abilene than Lubbock?
Do you think more talent is born in Abilene than SL?
Do you think more talent is born in Abilene than Cedar Hill?
If you answer yes to the above, why would you think so?

Do you need a list of dynastys in Texas High school football who fell from the top ranks after a coaching change? I mean like married couples just lost their capacity for producing talent that just happened to coincide with a coachs departure.

Ok, good, you were actually saying what I thought then. Which is insane. Obviously coaching plays a (large) factor in how a team does, but if you think the talent is always equal across the board, then I don't know what to tell you. Which is why on your "list of dynastys" I would like to see what these great coaches you were referring to did at other places. A dynasty is formed when a great coach meets up with great talent. A great coach can make an untalented team better, but never great. You have to have the talent.

The bolded part is actually the funniest. Thats crazy, and I still think you might be joking. Its called genetics. Some have it, some don't. Surely you are not saying that two kids born anywhere in the state of Texas have the potential to be equally smart or equally athletic, and all that matter is who is coached/taught better?

farmerfan
09-08-2010, 10:14 PM
Now I know you don't have a clue. Thanks for inviting Gordon Wood into the convo!

Using the same criteria to gauge Coach Wood that you use to gauge Dodge, then Gordon Wood wasn't a very good coach.

His first two years as a head coach, at Rule HS he went 2-8, and 3-3-2. WOW. Clearly the man didn't know what he was doing. Then came WWII, and he went on to another program to find modest success. His legend grew only when he was at Brownwood, several years into his head coaching career. I guess he and Dodge are on the same level.

If that's not good enough for you, maybe we can compare Dodge to your former coach Ronny Gage. Ronny Gage is a horrible coach. Lets look at the evidence.

Gage's first head coaching stop was at Justin Northwest (comparable to Newman Smith and Fossil Ridge at the time). All I have is district records. His first year in 1987 he went 0-7, in 1988 he was 3-2-1. After his 1st 2 years he was 3-9-1 in district play alone. His 3rd year he was 6-1-1 and his 4th year he was 5-1. Maybe your 3rd and 4th years pay off, what say you?

Gage became a legend at Lewisville. But according to you, he sucks anyways because his tenure as a college head coach was 13-17. It sucks to use your criteria.

Who is Ronny Gage?

Now Ronnie Gage guided Justin Northwest to a winning record in year 2, something Dodge never did at his schools, why? Outside of Carroll, why is that again?

His second stop he took Lewsville to the playoffs in year 1, once again something Dodge never did at the 3 previous stops to Carroll. Once again, why is that?

But your attempt to bring Gage into this is laughable considering I am not on here compalining about the coaches at Lewisville and comapring the ones since Gage to some "myth" of a legend that has been born in the eyes of people who refuse to look the whole picture.

As for Wood, it's funny you mention Post but fail to mention Roscoe, Seminole, Winters, Stamford and Victoria.
His first year at the following 5 schools saw him produce a first year record of:

10-1
9-2
6-4
9-1
6-4

Hmmmm, why did you negelct to mention that?

farmerfan
09-08-2010, 10:20 PM
Sir, I wish to congratulate you in that your first 11 posts contain more reasoned common sense than some posters who have more than 20,000 posts.

Except they really don't Toonman. Now if he would have told the entire story of Woods coaching career and each place he had been then sure you could pat him on the back, but his attempt to single out one stop did not help his cause.


Now toonman, why is it that Dodge has never been successful anywhere other than Carroll? DD, '93, SLDF, DrE and even TheStump have all given their input and I can appreciate that whether we agree or not. However, you are the loudest spoiled brat on here but yet you have never offered up one thing you would do to change the current state of the program or why it is that the guy you want to compare to Wasson has never been any better than 5-5 outside of Carroll. Which correct me if I am wrong, that is one of your favorite things to sue against Wasson is that he is a gray haired 5-5er

farmerfan
09-08-2010, 10:22 PM
if by modest success, you mean winning his first state title, at stamford, then i agree. as well as another. in fact your definition of modest is quite immodest at best.

Coach Wood found his next coaching job at Stamford, Texas High School. His first season in 1951, the Stamford Bulldogs won nine games, but one loss kept them out of the district championship and the state finals. The next year, Stamford went undefeated in the regular season followed by Coach Wood's first ever playoff win. Stamford won two playoff games before losing to Terrell in the state semifinals. Coach Wood ended the 1952 season with thirteen wins and one loss. In 1953, Coach Wood took Stamford through another undefeated season, this time losing to Childress in the state quarterfinals, and ending the 1953 season with eleven wins and one loss. In 1954, Wood had another winning season when Stamford won nine games, but a loss to Colorado City kept them out of the district championship and the state playoffs. That loss would be the last Coach Wood or Stamford would see for the next couple of years.

In 1955, Coach Wood brought Stamford to yet another undefeated season followed by playoff victories. This time Stamford went undefeated in the playoffs ending their season with a 34 to 7 victory over Hillsboro to claim the state championship. The Stamford Bulldogs went undefeated again in 1956, earning Coach Wood back-to-back state championships and extending the team's winning streak to 32 games. The 1957 season started well when three opening victories brought the streak up to 35, but Sweetwater ended Stamford's long years of success with a 24 to 7 defeat over the Bulldogs. A second loss to the Seymour Panthers shut out Stamford's hopes for another district title and another shot at the state crown. The next year Coach Wood moved on to Victoria, while Stamford claimed another set of back-to-back championships in 1958 and 1959. Wood ended his career at Stamford with eighty wins and six losses, a 93% winning record.

Damn. Nice contribution there and history of Wood at Stamford :notworthy

thestomp
09-08-2010, 11:01 PM
Who is Ronny Gage?

Now Ronnie Gage guided Justin Northwest to a winning record in year 2, something Dodge never did at his schools, why? Outside of Carroll, why is that again?

His second stop he took Lewsville to the playoffs in year 1, once again something Dodge never did at the 3 previous stops to Carroll. Once again, why is that?

But your attempt to bring Gage into this is laughable considering I am not on here compalining about the coaches at Lewisville and comapring the ones since Gage to some "myth" of a legend that has been born in the eyes of people who refuse to look the whole picture.

As for Wood, it's funny you mention Post but fail to mention Roscoe, Seminole, Winters, Stamford and Victoria.
His first year at the following 5 schools saw him produce a first year record of:

10-1
9-2
6-4
9-1
6-4

Hmmmm, why did you negelct to mention that?

Way to backtrack! I see that your criteria only works on TD, not anyone else. Point is is that it takes more than 2 years for most coaches to get their system in place. Even legends don't win at all stops. Gordon Wood didn't and Ronny Gage didn't. Both were below average in their first 2 years. Spin it any way you feel.

Ronny Gage had trouble in the college ranks, does that make him a bad coach? He's currently 0-2 at Barbers Hill. It looks like to me he's struggling transforming a spread team in to a wishbone team. Who would have thunk it? I guess you the only one that thinks it should be an easy switch.

There's several more to choose from if you want me too. I'll go on about Curtis Barbay or Dennis Alexander if you need.

I've never said that Todd Dodge is better than Gordon Wood, or GA Moore. Only a fool would. This is about SLC, and its VERY evident to everyone but you that Wasson and company is not remotely close to Dodge and company. Only you think so.

thestomp
09-08-2010, 11:06 PM
Except they really don't Toonman. Now if he would have told the entire story of Woods coaching career and each place he had been then sure you could pat him on the back, but his attempt to single out one stop did not help his cause.


Now toonman, why is it that Dodge has never been successful anywhere other than Carroll? DD, '93, SLDF, DrE and even TheStump have all given their input and I can appreciate that whether we agree or not. However, you are the loudest spoiled brat on here but yet you have never offered up one thing you would do to change the current state of the program or why it is that the guy you want to compare to Wasson has never been any better than 5-5 outside of Carroll. Which correct me if I am wrong, that is one of your favorite things to sue against Wasson is that he is a gray haired 5-5er

Why was Gordon Wood 5-11-2 in his first stop. Todd Dodge never had a 2 year record that bad. Why was Gage's first two years at JW below .500? Because it takes more than two years to win at most stops. Using your criteria, they suck. Dodge never had 3 or 4 years at his previous stops, and if he would've he would have been just like Gage and been in the playoffs. Try all you want Wasson is the main reason for SLC's minor decline, not talent. And try all you want to diminish 4 titles in 5 years, the man can coach.

farmerfan
09-08-2010, 11:40 PM
Way to backtrack! I see that your criteria only works on TD, not anyone else. Point is is that it takes more than 2 years for most coaches to get their system in place. Even legends don't win at all stops. Gordon Wood didn't and Ronny Gage didn't. Both were below average in their first 2 years. Spin it any way you feel.

Ronny Gage had trouble in the college ranks, does that make him a bad coach? He's currently 0-2 at Barbers Hill. It looks like to me he's struggling transforming a spread team in to a wishbone team. Who would have thunk it? I guess you the only one that thinks it should be an easy switch.

There's several more to choose from if you want me too. I'll go on about Curtis Barbay or Dennis Alexander if you need.

I've never said that Todd Dodge is better than Gordon Wood, or GA Moore. Only a fool would. This is about SLC, and its VERY evident to everyone but you that Wasson and company is not remotely close to Dodge and company. Only you think so.

What exactly am I back tracking on? Once again Ronnie Gage had a winning record in year numero 2 at Northwest and a winning record and playoff birth in year 1 at Lewisville. I also am not sitting hear whining and complaining about what the Lewisville program is going through saying the things of greatness that the Southlake people are saying about Todd. The thing that cracks me up though is how you all are so dadgum hesitant to even discuss Dodge at all his other stops. We can see the excuses of system this and system that but that would lead one to think he lacked in the athletes or it takes 3-4 years but he never stayed that long because maybe he knew getting the job done would be more difficult than he first though?

It is also very evident that Todd Dodge has been average at best at all his stops not named Southlake Carroll only you and a few others who are spoiled brats think otherwise. Please dont think I am lumping you in the spoiled brat category because that goes for another group(the group that likes to complain about coaches being no better than 5-5 outside of Carroll). I simply think you're just too reluctant to look at the big picture of Todd Dodge and that is without the kids and athletes at Carroll he never would have become what he is in the minds of so many. His other stops have proven that.


Now, care to adddress why you chose to leave out the other stops that Gordon Wood had and how he had winning records in year 1 at every single one of them?

farmerfan
09-08-2010, 11:43 PM
Why was Gordon Wood 5-11-2 in his first stop. Todd Dodge never had a 2 year record that bad. Why was Gage's first two years at JW below .500? Because it takes more than two years to win at most stops. Using your criteria, they suck. Dodge never had 3 or 4 years at his previous stops, and if he would've he would have been just like Gage and been in the playoffs. Try all you want Wasson is the main reason for SLC's minor decline, not talent. And try all you want to diminish 4 titles in 5 years, the man can coach.

Why did Gordon wood have a winning record in year numero uno at 6 other places incuding state championships at multiple schools? Todd Dodge never did that. Gage was in the playoffs in year 1 at Lewisville and in year 2 and in year 3 and in year 4 and in year 5 and in year 6 and in year 7 and in year 8 and in year 9 and in year 10 and in year 11. Gage had a winning record at Northwest in year 2, A WINNING RECORD. Something Dodge never had at his other stops outside of Carroll.

Trojanalum693
09-08-2010, 11:50 PM
Carrolls offense looks different under Wasson than it did under Dodge. You would think Wasson would have kept it the same but he didn't. What happened to "if it aint broke don't fix it"?

They no longer run that hi/low drag that was a staple of their offense in their state championship years. They no longer run the ball as well as they used too.

IMO some of it has to do with coaching and some of it has to do with talent. Dodge saw the writing on the wall and knew that the talent he had coming in wasn't near as good as the talent he had going out so he left.

yankee
09-09-2010, 12:30 AM
They no longer run the ball as well as they used too.



tommy avers says hi.

dragonsdaddy
09-09-2010, 05:38 AM
Damn. Nice contribution there and history of Wood at Stamford :notworthy

i am chastened and strongly apologetic not to have quoted and referrenced wiki with the wood bio. i thought i did. it will be edited post haste.

dragonsdaddy
09-09-2010, 06:03 AM
Why did Gordon wood have a winning record in year numero uno at 6 other places incuding state championships at multiple schools? Todd Dodge never did that. Gage was in the playoffs in year 1 at Lewisville and in year 2 and in year 3 and in year 4 and in year 5 and in year 6 and in year 7 and in year 8 and in year 9 and in year 10 and in year 11. Gage had a winning record at Northwest in year 2, A WINNING RECORD. Something Dodge never had at his other stops outside of Carroll.

what exactly were the recods at c-y, n-s, anf fridge? and by the way, i couldn't care less what he did away from slc. i have exactly zero interest in any of the prior stops. i have a deep and abiding interest in his slc stop however, and even though i have personally weathered the crappy coaching that won 6 titles at plano, i am here to tell you that what td and his coaches did at slc was as good a coaching job as i have ever witnessed. the preparation met the opportunity. td had been pointing toward the slc situation his whole coaching career. he took the stepping stone jobs so as to be ready for his fated slc job. it is simplistic to say he was a failure at the cy/ns/fridge jobs. you might want to ask the ads at all 3 and ask if they would have been likely to get rid of him when/after he left. and there's even at outside chance that he positively affected some/many kids at each stop. i don't know and honestly, i don't care. i do know beyond anyone's doubt that he hit back to back to back to back to back grand slams at slc, not only on the field but in the lives of hundreds of kids. his life changing influence included a life skills tutorial whereby every kid learned better how to deal with the inevitable adversities of life. this training was not altruistic, by any means, but it helped none the less. why his skill set didn't take instant effect at previous stops is pretty intuitively obvious to all who were there. fact is, if you were there, you can't explain it, and if you weren't you couldn't understand it.

ff's realization and epiphany is quite understandable considering his immense disappointment with td's lack of success at unt. he/i/many had high hopes and put our pride in td/unt on the line quite unabashedly, only, so far at least, to be made fools of. i can't readily explain why this has happened, but regardless, it has zero influence on my opinion of td. he is one of the true coaching savants. unfortunately, the unt experience hasn't done much to prove it.

farmerfan
09-09-2010, 07:46 AM
what exactly were the recods at c-y, n-s, anf fridge? and by the way, i couldn't care less what he did away from slc. i have exactly zero interest in any of the prior stops. i have a deep and abiding interest in his slc stop however, and even though i have personally weathered the crappy coaching that won 6 titles at plano, i am here to tell you that what td and his coaches did at slc was as good a coaching job as i have ever witnessed. the preparation met the opportunity. td had been pointing toward the slc situation his whole coaching career. he took the stepping stone jobs so as to be ready for his fated slc job. it is simplistic to say he was a failure at the cy/ns/fridge jobs. you might want to ask the ads at all 3 and ask if they would have been likely to get rid of him when/after he left. and there's even at outside chance that he positively affected some/many kids at each stop. i don't know and honestly, i don't care. i do know beyond anyone's doubt that he hit back to back to back to back to back grand slams at slc, not only on the field but in the lives of hundreds of kids. his life changing influence included a life skills tutorial whereby every kid learned better how to deal with the inevitable adversities of life. this training was not altruistic, by any means, but it helped none the less. why his skill set didn't take instant effect at previous stops is pretty intuitively obvious to all who were there. fact is, if you were there, you can't explain it, and if you weren't you couldn't understand it.

ff's realization and epiphany is quite understandable considering his immense disappointment with td's lack of success at unt. he/i/many had high hopes and put our pride in td/unt on the line quite unabashedly, only, so far at least, to be made fools of. i can't readily explain why this has happened, but regardless, it has zero influence on my opinion of td. he is one of the true coaching savants. unfortunately, the unt experience hasn't done much to prove it.

3-7 at CY
4-6 at NS
2-7 at FRidge
All according to a wiki-site

As to the last part of your first paragraph, how very "aggy" :)

Of course you wouldn't care about the other stops and his lack of success because you weren't impacted by those stops at all. You had yours playing under him at Carroll where he was fortunate enough to be blessed with the amount of talent walking the halls he did. Yes, he met the opportunity and it did good for him at Carroll but he has failed to rise above average anywhere else and for some that's tough to get past while for others not so much because they are so glued in on the 5 year run that saw the 79-1 happen

dragonsdaddy
09-09-2010, 08:23 AM
3-7 at CY
4-6 at NS
2-7 at FRidge
All according to a wiki-site

As to the last part of your first paragraph, how very "aggy" :)

Of course you wouldn't care about the other stops and his lack of success because you weren't impacted by those stops at all. You had yours playing under him at Carroll where he was fortunate enough to be blessed with the amount of talent walking the halls he did. Yes, he met the opportunity and it did good for him at Carroll but he has failed to rise above average anywhere else and for some that's tough to get past while for others not so much because they are so glued in on the 5 year run that saw the 79-1 happen

i wanted both years, as you were using 2nd year performances in comparison.
5-5 X3-got it.
let's ask around. would any on here want a chance to go 79-1, if the situation arose whereby you could keep a rising star for more than 2 years? you still haven't admitted what drove you over the edge, as your demeanor concerning the dodge hire was quite the mirror image as your recent flip flop has shown.

thestomp
09-09-2010, 08:31 AM
i wanted both years, as you were using 2nd year performances in comparison.
5-5 X3-got it.
let's ask around. would any on here want a chance to go 79-1, if the situation arose whereby you could keep a rising star for more than 2 years? you still haven't admitted what drove you over the edge, as your demeanor concerning the dodge hire was quite the mirror image as your recent flip flop has shown.

Dodge was 5-5 at every one of his stops in the 2nd year. Every team got better, as I mentioned. He didn't stay around for 4 years like Gage did to get the ball rolling. He took over a triple I Yoe team and installed a spread. It takes more than 2 years to get it rolling. You think FarmerFan would know that, but he discredits it.

Gage is having the same problem right now. He's at Barbers Hill trying to install the wishbone at a school thats been spread for about 8 years. His record is 0-2. The only thing that will save him is the like of North Forest and Houston King. I know that the guy's a good coach and will get it done, but it won't be this year. He also had a losing record in college. Hmmmm.

Dodge also had 10 losses in his first two years at SLC, and 1 the next 4. See how that works. And I've tried to explain it to him numerous times, but he still thinks SLC's problem has nothing to do with coaching.

pied
09-09-2010, 08:32 AM
You know I was thinking something the other day regarding SLC's struggles. Note, I use that term lightly. If these are considered down years, they are still better than most and great by nearly anyone's standard.

Anyway, it puts DeLasSalle's 13 year winning streak into some perspecitve. That was some pretty incredible stuff there.

dragonpants
09-09-2010, 08:37 AM
Hey does everyone know that we have a game tomorrow against Berkner????


Just checking. :D

thestomp
09-09-2010, 08:37 AM
You know I was thinking something the other day regarding SLC's struggles. Note, I use that term lightly. If these are considered down years, they are still better than most and great by nearly anyone's standard.

Anyway, it puts DeLasSalle's 13 year winning streak into some perspecitve. That was some pretty incredible stuff there.

Its a minor lapse for a great program. But to put things into perspective.

Dodge won 6 playoff games in a single year, 4 different times. And 5 playoff games another year.

Wasson has won 5 playoff games in 3 years.

farmerfan
09-09-2010, 08:37 AM
i wanted both years, as you were using 2nd year performances in comparison.
5-5 X3-got it.
let's ask around. would any on here want a chance to go 79-1, if the situation arose whereby you could keep a rising star for more than 2 years? you still haven't admitted what drove you over the edge, as your demeanor concerning the dodge hire was quite the mirror image as your recent flip flop has shown.

I was one of the biggest supporters of his hire at UNT. Felt he had turned the corner, you are right. Battled the likes of Wide and others on this very board who were sick and tired of hearing about it an started calling him "godge" among other things if you remember. UNT wasn't that far removed from their last conference championship when he took over and while he is competing with the likes of UT-SMU-TCU-OU-A&M-Arky and others fro kids in the area its not any different than the other Sun Belt schools who are competing with LSU and UTk and Arky and UF and FSU and Miami and S. Fla and Bama and Auburn for their kids.
The product he has put on the field so far at UNT has been TERRIBLE. It's one of those where he is taking a lot of money (for UNT its a lot) and producing roughly a 20% return on our investment, not very good if you ask me. It leads me to go back and look at his whole career and yes I question if he was really as good as his record at Carroll or how much of that was the kids he had there comapred to what he/they were going up against. IMO it was the kids that made Todd Dodge, not the other way around

farmerfan
09-09-2010, 08:40 AM
Dodge was 5-5 at every one of his stops in the 2nd year. Every team got better, as I mentioned. He didn't stay around for 4 years like Gage did to get the ball rolling. He took over a triple I Yoe team and installed a spread. It takes more than 2 years to get it rolling. You think FarmerFan would know that, but he discredits it.

Gage is having the same problem right now. He's at Barbers Hill trying to install the wishbone at a school thats been spread for about 8 years. His record is 0-2. The only thing that will save him is the like of North Forest and Houston King. I know that the guy's a good coach and will get it done, but it won't be this year. He also had a losing record in college. Hmmmm.

Dodge also had 10 losses in his first two years at SLC, and 1 the next 4. See how that works. And I've tried to explain it to him numerous times, but he still thinks SLC's problem has nothing to do with coaching.


You keep bringing up Gage and that is funny. I nor any of the other 2 Lewisville fans on here are talking about Gage the way some of these disgruntled Carroll fans are about Wasson in comparison to Dodge. I have never gone out of my way to make Gage into some sort of legend. However, by year 2 Gage had winning records. Thats all I asked for about Dodge, why couldnt he ever produce a winning record outside of Carroll?
You say because of the spread and the kids not being used to it that once again goes to show Dodge can not adapt to his personnell and needs to have good athletes to make him look good, not the other way around. Thanks for admitting that

pied
09-09-2010, 08:46 AM
Its a minor lapse for a great program. But to put things into perspective.

Dodge won 6 playoff games in a single year, 4 different times. And 5 playoff games another year.

Wasson has won 5 playoff games in 3 years.

You know, I've said that to myself several times about different programs I follow.

I don't expect SLC to stay down, but I also don't necessarily expect them to have the same type of run they had in the near future. One of the best runs we've seen in the state of Texas. Again, it makes me think of how great the DLS streak was. 151 games with no losses, wow.

farmerfan
09-09-2010, 08:52 AM
You know, I've said that to myself several times about different programs I follow.

I don't expect SLC to stay down, but I also don't necessarily expect them to have the same type of run they had in the near future. One of the best runs we've seen in the state of Texas. Again, it makes me think of how great the DLS streak was. 151 games with no losses, wow.

Private school, Pied. They were allowed to recruit and did. Never would have happend in the Texas UIL :cool:;)

farmerfan
09-09-2010, 08:52 AM
Its a minor lapse for a great program. But to put things into perspective.

Dodge won 6 playoff games in a single year, 4 different times. And 5 playoff games another year.

Wasson has won 5 playoff games in 3 years.

and 0 playoff games 6 other times

toonman
09-09-2010, 08:56 AM
and 0 playoff games 6 other times

.....and you want him at Lewisville.

farmerfan
09-09-2010, 09:01 AM
After Todd Dodge left the appointment of an aging, 5-5, never won anything, lacking game and program management skills coach.


.....and you want him at Lewisville.

Hmmm you were talking about Dodge in the bolded, right?

pied
09-09-2010, 09:08 AM
Private school, Pied. They were allowed to recruit and did. Never would have happend in the Texas UIL :cool:;)


I don't think that they would have gone 13 years in Texas, nor in CA if they had a state wide playoff system. That being said, would SLC have had their run if there were one 5A champ?

Fact is they were at the top of there game with ZERO slip ups or off games in 13 years.

toonman
09-09-2010, 09:10 AM
Hmmm you were talking about Dodge in the bolded, right?

.. I bet Lewisville would take Dodge in a heartbeat and Wasson only if every other coach in the state refused the job.

farmerfan
09-09-2010, 09:11 AM
I don't think that they would have gone 13 years in Texas, nor in CA if they had a state wide playoff system. That being said, would SLC have had their run if there were one 5A champ?

Fact is they were at the top of there game with ZERO slip ups or off games in 13 years.

They never would have gone 1 year in Texas going undefeated. Texas depth, Texas talent and Texas speed and Texas community support would have overwhelmed them

farmerfan
09-09-2010, 09:13 AM
.. I bet Lewisville would take Dodge in a heartbeat and Wasson only if every other coach in the state refused the job.

Who were you talking about in the bolded?

I would have my doubts if they hired Dodge based on his track record at every other stop he has been outside of Carroll. Lewisville wouldn't attract kids like Carroll was able to. They aren ot an 'exemplary' school with all the academics in the world to offer

mojotrain
09-09-2010, 09:23 AM
Now I know you don't have a clue. Thanks for inviting Gordon Wood into the convo!

Using the same criteria to gauge Coach Wood that you use to gauge Dodge, then Gordon Wood wasn't a very good coach.

His first two years as a head coach, at Rule HS he went 2-8, and 3-3-2. WOW. Clearly the man didn't know what he was doing. Then came WWII, and he went on to another program to find modest success. His legend grew only when he was at Brownwood, several years into his head coaching career. I guess he and Dodge are on the same level.

If that's not good enough for you, maybe we can compare Dodge to your former coach Ronny Gage. Ronny Gage is a horrible coach. Lets look at the evidence.

Gage's first head coaching stop was at Justin Northwest (comparable to Newman Smith and Fossil Ridge at the time). All I have is district records. His first year in 1987 he went 0-7, in 1988 he was 3-2-1. After his 1st 2 years he was 3-9-1 in district play alone. His 3rd year he was 6-1-1 and his 4th year he was 5-1. Maybe your 3rd and 4th years pay off, what say you?

Gage became a legend at Lewisville. But according to you, he sucks anyways because his tenure as a college head coach was 13-17. It sucks to use your criteria.

I think that the good coachs learn and get better as they go and gain expertice in selecting assistant coachs who have a chemistry that meshes with theirs.

I also think that a good high school coach has nothing much to do with being a good college coach or pro coach. Unless you are allowed to recruit in hs school you must make the best of what kids you have. The higher levels, you go out and get what you need and try to beat Teams like Texas or OU.

farmerfan
09-09-2010, 09:27 AM
I think that the good coachs learn and get better as they go and gain expertice in selecting assistant coachs who have a chemistry that meshes with theirs.

I also think that a good high school coach has nothing much to do with being a good college coach or pro coach. Unless you are allowed to recruit in hs school you must make the best of what kids you have. The higher levels, you go out and get what you need and try to beat Teams like Texas or OU.

Nobody is asking Dodge to beat Texas or OU just go out and beat Arkansas St or LaLa. We might even forgive a loss to Troy and MTSU if it brings wins agaisnt LaMonroe and FAU and FIU

thestomp
09-09-2010, 09:30 AM
You keep bringing up Gage and that is funny. I nor any of the other 2 Lewisville fans on here are talking about Gage the way some of these disgruntled Carroll fans are about Wasson in comparison to Dodge. I have never gone out of my way to make Gage into some sort of legend. However, by year 2 Gage had winning records. Thats all I asked for about Dodge, why couldnt he ever produce a winning record outside of Carroll?
You say because of the spread and the kids not being used to it that once again goes to show Dodge can not adapt to his personnell and needs to have good athletes to make him look good, not the other way around. Thanks for admitting that

I think Gage is a good coach, his record speaks for itself. I'm just wondering why in the world he struggled his first two years at Justin Northwest, why he struggled at Austin College, and why he's struggled his 1st 2 games at Barbers Hill. Maybe its a little harder to come in and overhaul an offense than you think. BTW, did Gage make the playoffs in year 2 at JNW.

Speaking of good athletes. If thats all you need to win, why hasn't SLC done anything since Dodge left. Why did't they do anything when Ledbetter left, and Rapp took over? Do you know? If talent trumps coaching why don't Skyline and Desoto win every farking state title. How in the hell does Abilene beat Cedar Hill? The list goes on and on. Don't answer, I know you don't have a clue.

toonman
09-09-2010, 09:35 AM
I think Gage is a good coach, his record speaks for itself. I'm just wondering why in the world he struggled his first two years at Justin Northwest, why he struggled at Austin College, and why he's struggled his 1st 2 games at Barbers Hill. Maybe its a little harder to come in and overhaul an offense than you think. BTW, did Gage make the playoffs in year 2 at JNW.

Speaking of good athletes. If thats all you need to win, why hasn't SLC done anything since Dodge left. Why did't they do anything when Ledbetter left, and Rapp took over? Do you know? If talent trumps coaching why don't Skyline and Desoto win every farking state title. How in the hell does Abilene beat Cedar Hill? The list goes on and on. Don't answer, I know you don't have a clue.

...and why has Lufkin only won one State title.

farmerfan
09-09-2010, 09:36 AM
I think Gage is a good coach, his record speaks for itself. I'm just wondering why in the world he struggled his first two years at Justin Northwest, why he struggled at Austin College, and why he's struggled his 1st 2 games at Barbers Hill. Maybe its a little harder to come in and overhaul an offense than you think. BTW, did Gage make the playoffs in year 2 at JNW.

Speaking of good athletes. If thats all you need to win, why hasn't SLC done anything since Dodge left. Why did't they do anything when Ledbetter left, and Rapp took over? Do you know? If talent trumps coaching why don't Skyline and Desoto win every farking state title. How in the hell does Abilene beat Cedar Hill? The list goes on and on. Don't answer, I know you don't have a clue.

Once again I never said all Dodge had to do was make the playoffs, I just asked for a winning record at one of his previous stops. He can't produce that. Gage can at all 3 of his stops so far INCLDUDING YEAR 2 at NW, but I am laughing at how you are bringing Gage into this. Once again, Lewisville fans are not being ridiculous with their expectations and demands on a coach. Carroll fans are.

As for the one without a clue, that is clearly you and is evident. Carroll has been right up there with DeSoto and Skyline for football players going D1 over the course of the last 10 years, look it up. Allen had a boatload of D1 studs on their '08 team. Trinity has won state with D1 talent too as has Katy.
I am pretty sure Rapp did make it to the Semis once after Ledbetter left and another playoff apperance in '97.
So tell me again, if talent had nothing to do with it, then why couldn't Dodge transform the kids at Yoe where they ran a "Triple I" into at least winners while he was there?

farmerfan
09-09-2010, 09:38 AM
...and why has Lufkin only won one State title.

Had Carroll beat in '02 but a bad officiating call saved them.

'04 went up against a team more talented in Carroll

'05 went up agaisnt a team more talented in Carroll

'06 choked.


Tell me this then. How many teams in Texas have won state titles without having any D1 talent on its roster?

farmerfan
09-09-2010, 09:43 AM
If it's all about coaching then why hasn't Phil Danaher(sp) and Calallen or Larry Hill and SV won state yet? Those two are highly regarded as two of the best.

dragonsdaddy
09-09-2010, 09:51 AM
Once again I never said all Dodge had to do was make the playoffs, I just asked for a winning record at one of his previous stops. He can't produce that. Gage can at all 3 of his stops so far INCLDUDING YEAR 2 at NW, but I am laughing at how you are bringing Gage into this. Once again, Lewisville fans are not being ridiculous with their expectations and demands on a coach. Carroll fans are.

As for the one without a clue, that is clearly you and is evident. Carroll has been right up there with DeSoto and Skyline for football players going D1 over the course of the last 10 years, look it up. Allen had a boatload of D1 studs on their '08 team. Trinity has won state with D1 talent too as has Katy.
I am pretty sure Rapp did make it to the Semis once after Ledbetter left and another playoff apperance in '97.
So tell me again, if talent had nothing to do with it, then why couldn't Dodge transform the kids at Yoe where they ran a "Triple I" into at least winners while he was there?

you do know how close 5-5 is to a winning record. even your immutable knowledge can't tell me whether there was a missed chip shot fg, or a freak fumble return that kept a 5-5 from the holy grail of 6-4. the real question is whether his teams improved. even the minor record change doesn't prove that. i state that with all honesty as i remember distinctly having this same discussion with several elder, and unfortunately no longer with us, councilmen during both the 00 and 01 pre-district games. improvement is kind of like pornography.

it is entirely too simplistic to hold ns and fridge to any sort of winning standards as neither had any history of same. during those years, any win was cause for celebration. in fact, i wouldn't be surprised if 5-5 was the high water mark for both schools.

maxtor
09-09-2010, 09:53 AM
You know I was thinking something the other day regarding SLC's struggles. Note, I use that term lightly. If these are considered down years, they are still better than most and great by nearly anyone's standard.

Anyway, it puts DeLasSalle's 13 year winning streak into some perspecitve. That was some pretty incredible stuff there.

De LaSalle did have the best run of all time. I dont think that they necessarily deserve full credit for going undefeated as much as having a top team for 13 years running(and more).
California has about 10 'sections' that have their own 3 week pip squeak playoff systems. No state championship. Although they played numerous top teams during that run they didnt play them in the playoffs usually much less play those teams in multiples in the playoffs.
Even so De Lasalle is a pretty incredible story.
Tangent finished.

dragonsdaddy
09-09-2010, 09:54 AM
Had Carroll beat in '02 but a bad officiating call saved them.

'04 went up against a team more talented in Carroll

'05 went up agaisnt a team more talented in Carroll

'06 choked.


Tell me this then. How many teams in Texas have won state titles without having any D1 talent on its roster?

plano did in 77. if you take soph to sr, it would be very rare to think that it has ever happened, at least since masonic home and rusty russell.

maxtor
09-09-2010, 09:57 AM
Had Carroll beat in '02 but a bad officiating call saved them.

'04 went up against a team more talented in Carroll

'05 went up agaisnt a team more talented in Carroll

'06 choked.


Tell me this then. How many teams in Texas have won state titles without having any D1 talent on its roster?

ANY DIV 1 talent? You mean ANY LESS than SLC in 07, 08 and 09.

steve_clements
09-09-2010, 10:01 AM
zz

farmerfan
09-09-2010, 10:03 AM
you do know how close 5-5 is to a winning record. even your immutable knowledge can't tell me whether there was a missed chip shot fg, or a freak fumble return that kept a 5-5 from the holy grail of 6-4. the real question is whether his teams improved. even the minor record change doesn't prove that. i state that with all honesty as i remember distinctly having this same discussion with several elder, and unfortunately no longer with us, councilmen during both the 00 and 01 pre-district games. improvement is kind of like pornography.

it is entirely too simplistic to hold ns and fridge to any sort of winning standards as neither had any history of same. during those years, any win was cause for celebration. in fact, i wouldn't be surprised if 5-5 was the high water mark for both schools.

By that same token one could say just the opposite they were a missed FG or a freakish fumble from going from 5-5 to 3-7.
Just like one wants to ask why Lufkin has only won 1 state title, maybe they were a bad call away one year and a broken arm away in another year.

As for my immutable knowledge, you will have to explain to me what immutable means, is that I wont shut up about it? I am that that knowledgeable when it comes to words or other things. I'm pretty dense in my vocabulary.

They might not have had a winning history prior to Dodge but wouldnt the man who is now the standard to be held to at least produce 1 winning season in 6 tries at 3 other schools?

steve_clements
09-09-2010, 10:03 AM
ANY DIV 1 talent? You mean ANY LESS than SLC in 07, 08 and 09.
See Euless Trinity last year.

farmerfan
09-09-2010, 10:05 AM
plano did in 77. if you take soph to sr, it would be very rare to think that it has ever happened, at least since masonic home and rusty russell.

I know of one team from jr-sr that had 1 and the sophomore class wasnt loaded with talent either but the freshman class was.

You know on this very board every talks about the run Midland Lee had and what is that one thing that stands out most about their run/ The one thing that people say never would have allowed them to win 3 state titles if they didn't have?

farmerfan
09-09-2010, 10:06 AM
See Euless Trinity last year.

How many did they send to D1 schools?
how many off of that team that are playign this year will receive D1 ships?

farmerfan
09-09-2010, 10:07 AM
ANY DIV 1 talent? You mean ANY LESS than SLC in 07, 08 and 09.

Was Southlake the better team in '07 against MNW?


How about Abilene?

Montana79
09-09-2010, 10:16 AM
plano did in 77. if you take soph to sr, it would be very rare to think that it has ever happened, at least since masonic home and rusty russell.

Billy Ray Smith (University of Arkansas & San Diego Chargers) was a beast on that 1977 Plano team.

maxtor
09-09-2010, 10:41 AM
Was Southlake the better team in '07 against MNW?


How about Abilene?

LOL, my gosh here we go again. I believe that SLC had the better team than MNW. Having the better team doesnt directly result in an exact point differential proportional to how good the other team is relative to you.
It is reasonable that if MNW and SLC were to have played that game 100 times that each team would have some amount of victories each. Yet you assume in error that the best team must win the first of those 100 matches.
Your misplaced disdain for whiners and excuse makers has run a muck to an extent that you take these untenable stances such as this.

Now as far as your attempt to paint me into a corner here yes, SLC I believe was better than those teams. Yet these were Dodges teams that Wasson inherited. Teams that would have been even better in Dodges hands. The further that Wasson gets from Dodges teams the more Wassons glowing veil grows dimmer.

farmerfan
09-09-2010, 10:58 AM
LOL, my gosh here we go again. I believe that SLC had the better team than MNW. Having the better team doesnt directly result in an exact point differential proportional to how good the other team is relative to you.
It is reasonable that if MNW and SLC were to have played that game 100 times that each team would have some amount of victories each. Yet you assume in error that the best team must win the first of those 100 matches.
Your misplaced disdain for whiners and excuse makers has run a muck to an extent that you take these untenable stances such as this.

Now as far as your attempt to paint me into a corner here yes, SLC I believe was better than those teams. Yet these were Dodges teams that Wasson inherited. Teams that would have been even better in Dodges hands. The further that Wasson gets from Dodges teams the more Wassons glowing veil grows dimmer.

It's my favorite topic, Matt Leinart ;)
I wasn't looking to get into the whole debate of the game, just asking a simple yes or no question.

As a fan, what do you think would have happend had Riley Dodge not gone down in 2007 against Abilene?
It has been well documented by "SOME" fans on this site and within your program that Carroll would have won state that year

slcdragonfan
09-09-2010, 11:03 AM
It's my favorite topic, Matt Leinart ;)
I wasn't looking to get into the whole debate of the game, just asking a simple yes or no question.

As a fan, what do you think would have happend had Riley Dodge not gone down in 2007 against Abilene?
It has been well documented by "SOME" fans on this site and within your program that Carroll would have won state that year

I think we play 2007 Katy for the Championship and it is a whale of a game. Pretty sure we would have gotten past P-ville (but of course we will never know).

With Riley gone and no goal line fumble, we play P-ville close (mebbe lose) because we would have had a narrow playbook for KP. A narrow playbook against 2007 Katy is probably a loss.

pied
09-09-2010, 11:05 AM
LOL, my gosh here we go again. I believe that SLC had the better team than MNW. Having the better team doesnt directly result in an exact point differential proportional to how good the other team is relative to you.

It is reasonable that if MNW and SLC were to have played that game 100 times that each team would have some amount of victories each. Yet you assume in error that the best team must win the first of those 100 matches.
Your misplaced disdain for whiners and excuse makers has run a muck to an extent that you take these untenable stances such as this.

Now as far as your attempt to paint me into a corner here yes, SLC I believe was better than those teams. Yet these were Dodges teams that Wasson inherited. Teams that would have been even better in Dodges hands. The further that Wasson gets from Dodges teams the more Wassons glowing veil grows dimmer.

Curious as to what you saw on the field that day, the remainder of the year, or the subsequent college careers of the players that would lead you to believe that SLC was the better team?

I can certainly see that a play here and a play there that the outcome may have been different, but I find it hard to come up with an argument for SLC.

farmerfan
09-09-2010, 11:37 AM
I think we play 2007 Katy for the Championship and it is a whale of a game. Pretty sure we would have gotten past P-ville (but of course we will never know).

With Riley gone and no goal line fumble, we play P-ville close (mebbe lose) because we would have had a narrow playbook for KP. A narrow playbook against 2007 Katy is probably a loss.

Geno is on a recruting trip so his rules do not apply this week ;)

Let's rewind and say Riley doesn't get hurt, Tre stays healthy, no O-Linemen are lost and Carroll does in fact win a state championship. Would Hal get any credit at all for that or would it just have been, well he won with Dodge's team?

DragonHeart
09-09-2010, 11:49 AM
fact of the matter is the only reason we had success under the dodge years was because of luck. that's it. we had no coaching and no talent. we were just really lukcy.

I have been reading all these posts and there is finally one that I can agree with . . . also, don't forget the easy playoff schedules . . . well, I guess that is lucky too. ;)

slcdragonfan
09-09-2010, 11:57 AM
Geno is on a recruting trip so his rules do not apply this week ;)

Let's rewind and say Riley doesn't get hurt, Tre stays healthy, no O-Linemen are lost and Carroll does in fact win a state championship. Would Hal get any credit at all for that or would it just have been, well he won with Dodge's team?

I really don't know, but a lot of angst was generated with the TO/spike/fumble play against Abilene.

maxtor
09-09-2010, 11:57 AM
It's my favorite topic, Matt Leinart ;)
I wasn't looking to get into the whole debate of the game, just asking a simple yes or no question.

As a fan, what do you think would have happend had Riley Dodge not gone down in 2007 against Abilene?
It has been well documented by "SOME" fans on this site and within your program that Carroll would have won state that year

Yes, I believe that the 2007 Dragons would have won State if Dodge had not gotten hurt vs. Abilene. Yet I also believe that SLC would have won that Abilene game after Dodge went out. And I have proof!








now where was that(insert rustling paper sound).
.
.
.
.

farmerfan
09-09-2010, 12:04 PM
I really don't know, but a lot of angst was generated with the TO/spike/fumble play against Abilene.

and like with any call it is udnerstandable why a lot would question it, is it ok to use "a lot' here? :)

That being said though, do you think Dodge ever made a boneheaded decision that he was ultimately saved on?

Abilene#1 comes to mind facing a 3rd and short and instead of getting the first down to ice the game he goes long, does not convert and Abilene gets teh ball back, scores, pulls to within 5, recovers the onside, is moving the ball with Kolby Lewis in the backfield and then for some reason negelct giving it to Kolby and Potts throws an int in the endzone to preserve the Carroll victory. The only poster I have ever seen criticize that choice of play calling has been DD :)

slcdragonfan
09-09-2010, 12:26 PM
and like with any call it is udnerstandable why a lot would question it, is it ok to use "a lot' here? :)
yes.
That being said though, do you think Dodge ever made a boneheaded decision that he was ultimately saved on?
no according to most. :D
Abilene#1 comes to mind facing a 3rd and short and instead of getting the first down to ice the game he goes long, does not convert and Abilene gets teh ball back, scores, pulls to within 5, recovers the onside, is moving the ball with Kolby Lewis in the backfield and then for some reason negelct giving it to Kolby and Potts throws an int in the endzone to preserve the Carroll victory. The only poster I have ever seen criticize that choice of play calling has been DD :)

It comes down to trust. Abilene trusts their coach. Katy trusts their coach. They are all human and make game mistakes (uh-oh, Flee is going to come after me now....:D), but the fans accept it because of the trust. See Lineweaver and the fake punt. They seem to be over that now don't they? ;)

I am not justifying anything by the way. Just stating it as I see it. I don't recall if I posted it or not, but I think the "legends" factor comes into play as well. There was no coach that could directly replace Darrel Royal or Barry Switzer in the fans eyes, no matter how good they were. Once they got what they wanted (the "replacement" replaced) look what they got!

Fred Akers (replaced Royal):
1977 11-1-0 4th AP, 5th UPI;
1978 9-3-0 9th UPI/AP;
1979 9-3-0 12th AP, 13th UPI;
1980 7-5
1981 10-1-1 2nd AP, 4th UPI;
1982 9-3-0 17th AP, 18th UPI;
1983 11-1-0 5th AP/UPI;
1984 7-4-1
1985 8-4-0
1986 5-6-0
other than 1986, a commendable record. But I remember fans being after him from day one. The Georgia loss (10-9?) was a killer.
replaced by David McWilliams and Mackovick who did worse for the most part.

Gary Gibbs:
was 44-23 from 1989 to 1994.
Replaced by Howard Schnellenberger (a total piece of braggadacio, I even disliked him and was not an OU fan!) 5-5-1
and by John Blake 12-22 1996-1998.

So it is best to watch out what you say. In college it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy by hurting recruiting. Reputation is EVERYTHING. and you are not guaranteed a better replacement.

Champion
09-09-2010, 12:32 PM
I have lived in SL for 20 years and the city has changed. Still a nice city to live in and good schools but the city used to have the feel of rural FW and not like N. Dallas. The city now has more of the feel of N. Dallas (not meaning to indict everyone in N. Dallas but you know what I mean) rather than FW. By that I mean it is more focused on flash, bling and parents more consumed with self than family. An example of that has been pointed out in the atmosphere of the home games. More about being seen than being there dressed in jeans and a t-shirt and getting into the game. Friday night high school football in SL used to be a really big deal. It was a source of real pride and a gathering of the community. Now it is still something many of us really enjoy doing but our community is focused on other things as the demographics and interests of SL have changed.

Parents leave kids alone much more at earlier ages and they get involved in unhealthy things. Some of it is two parents working so they can live in SL, some of it is they are enjoying life themselves rather than taking care of family. I don't know if SL has the same % of kids involved in drugs, alcohol or other crime as some of the less wealthy areas of the metroplex. The arrest and conviction stats in SL probably look better just because SL parents can afford lawyers.

in SL wealth used to mean they owned some acreage. Now there is plenty of other wealth. The kids today have become a little richer, a little softer, more distracted with things money can buy. The wealth still allows families to afford the best training, etc. so the kids are still well trained.

I'll conclude and say, like other posters SLC football has not been mediocre. That record speaks for itself. The kids though have become softer, more indulged than ever, as interested in their car or truck or the clothes they wear rather, more interested in what they are putting in their nose and mouth than what happens on Friday night. This isn't a coaching problem, it really isn't even the kids (they are children) fault. I would throw issue back to parenting and allowing ourselves to take the focus off them and putting the spotlight on what we enjoy doing rather than being the best parents we can be.

Farmer is right on many points. It really is about many parents thinking SL is Perfectville. That they can indulge little Johnny with money, cars, turning a head to their bad habits and then they should just become the next top Division I prospect. This isn't poor me as I would guess I may be one of the wealthier people in SL. My own kids are also over indulged. Maybe SL is a little like the Roman empire. SL may decline with its decadence.

SL isn't mediocre, it's football domination maybe in decline because we are not as hungry and we are softer. Still a nice place to live. It isn't about coaching its about the parents, and the softer kids on the field.

farmerfan
09-09-2010, 12:46 PM
I have lived in SL for 20 years and the city has changed. Still a nice city to live in and good schools but the city used to have the feel of rural FW and not like N. Dallas. The city now has more of the feel of N. Dallas (not meaning to indict everyone in N. Dallas but you know what I mean) rather than FW. By that I mean it is more focused on flash, bling and parents more consumed with self than family. An example of that has been pointed out in the atmosphere of the home games. More about being seen than being there dressed in jeans and a t-shirt and getting into the game. Friday night high school football in SL used to be a really big deal. It was a source of real pride and a gathering of the community. Now it is still something many of us really enjoy doing but our community is focused on other things as the demographics and interests of SL have changed.

Parents leave kids alone much more at earlier ages and they get involved in unhealthy things. Some of it is two parents working so they can live in SL, some of it is they are enjoying life themselves rather than taking care of family. I don't know if SL has the same % of kids involved in drugs, alcohol or other crime as some of the less wealthy areas of the metroplex. The arrest and conviction stats in SL probably look better just because SL parents can afford lawyers.

in SL wealth used to mean they owned some acreage. Now there is plenty of other wealth. The kids today have become a little richer, a little softer, more distracted with things money can buy. The wealth still allows families to afford the best training, etc. so the kids are still well trained.

I'll conclude and say, like other posters SLC football has not been mediocre. That record speaks for itself. The kids though have become softer, more indulged than ever, as interested in their car or truck or the clothes they wear rather, more interested in what they are putting in their nose and mouth than what happens on Friday night. This isn't a coaching problem, it really isn't even the kids (they are children) fault. I would throw issue back to parenting and allowing ourselves to take the focus off them and putting the spotlight on what we enjoy doing rather than being the best parents we can be.

Farmer is right on many points. It really is about many parents thinking SL is Perfectville. That they can indulge little Johnny with money, cars, turning a head to their bad habits and then they should just become the next top Division I prospect. This isn't poor me as I would guess I may be one of the wealthier people in SL. My own kids are also over indulged. Maybe SL is a little like the Roman empire. SL may decline with its decadence.

SL isn't mediocre, it's football domination maybe in decline because we are not as hungry and we are softer. Still a nice place to live. It isn't about coaching its about the parents, and the softer kids on the field.

Like everybody we are entitled to our own opinion and I just like yours more than the rest right now :D

PlanoSucks

JagDad07
09-09-2010, 01:13 PM
SL isn't mediocre, it's football domination maybe in decline because we are not as hungry and we are softer. Still a nice place to live. It isn't about coaching its about the parents, and the softer kids on the field.

You, sir, are dead on. Thank you.

dragonsdaddy
09-09-2010, 01:24 PM
Billy Ray Smith (University of Arkansas & San Diego Chargers) was a beast on that 1977 Plano team.

he was a jr that year, thus my next comment.

MALAMEDICINA
09-09-2010, 01:28 PM
That is a masterpiece Mr. Champion. they way you have put as neutral opinions. when you dont take any sides the way you did, you can see reality very clear. It all goes back to family dinners together, son and father chit chat. Hating the fact that you have to help MOM around the house. Laughing. all that is missing, but not just in SL, its throughout society.

Materialistic World...... Cars, Dissing women, Looks, Status. Not good if done excesively.

dragonsdaddy
09-09-2010, 01:31 PM
and like with any call it is udnerstandable why a lot would question it, is it ok to use "a lot' here? :)

That being said though, do you think Dodge ever made a boneheaded decision that he was ultimately saved on?

Abilene#1 comes to mind facing a 3rd and short and instead of getting the first down to ice the game he goes long, does not convert and Abilene gets teh ball back, scores, pulls to within 5, recovers the onside, is moving the ball with Kolby Lewis in the backfield and then for some reason negelct giving it to Kolby and Potts throws an int in the endzone to preserve the Carroll victory. The only poster I have ever seen criticize that choice of play calling has been DD :)

this was absolutely a mistake on td's part. and i think, to his credit he learned from it. he was a bit too cocky that day, and even if it had worked i'd have ripped him for it. first half, dang right. kill the will. late in game with a 2 score lead, the clock is your friend. playing next week is the only goal at that point.

thestomp
09-09-2010, 02:01 PM
Once again I never said all Dodge had to do was make the playoffs, I just asked for a winning record at one of his previous stops. He can't produce that. Gage can at all 3 of his stops so far INCLDUDING YEAR 2 at NW, but I am laughing at how you are bringing Gage into this. Once again, Lewisville fans are not being ridiculous with their expectations and demands on a coach. Carroll fans are.

As for the one without a clue, that is clearly you and is evident. Carroll has been right up there with DeSoto and Skyline for football players going D1 over the course of the last 10 years, look it up. Allen had a boatload of D1 studs on their '08 team. Trinity has won state with D1 talent too as has Katy.
I am pretty sure Rapp did make it to the Semis once after Ledbetter left and another playoff apperance in '97.
So tell me again, if talent had nothing to do with it, then why couldn't Dodge transform the kids at Yoe where they ran a "Triple I" into at least winners while he was there?

The same reason Gage didn't do it at JNW, Austin College, and won't do it at Barbers Hill this year. You don't walk into a program, fundamentally change things, change the x's and o's and become a playoff team overnight. Simple as that. Maybe the same reason Gordon Wood failed at his first stop.

I never said Dodge was the best, but he's dang sure better than what they have now. HS football is more about coaching than talent.

thestomp
09-09-2010, 02:03 PM
If it's all about coaching then why hasn't Phil Danaher(sp) and Calallen or Larry Hill and SV won state yet? Those two are highly regarded as two of the best.

Speed. Weak regions.

Calallen also played against some really good LaMarque teams that had some great coaches. Speaking of Danaher, why did he struggle at Hampshire Fannett before he got the Calallen job?

farmerfan
09-09-2010, 02:09 PM
The same reason Gage didn't do it at JNW, Austin College, and won't do it at Barbers Hill this year. You don't walk into a program, fundamentally change things, change the x's and o's and become a playoff team overnight. Simple as that. Maybe the same reason Gordon Wood failed at his first stop.

I never said Dodge was the best, but he's dang sure better than what they have now. HS football is more about coaching than talent.

but yet Gage had a winning record in year 2. Why did TD never do that at any of his other stops?

Why was JoFlo able to walk into DR and guide them to a state championship game in season 1, this at a program that had never even sniffed winning before.

farmerfan
09-09-2010, 02:11 PM
Speed. Weak regions.

Calallen also played against some really good LaMarque teams that had some great coaches. Speaking of Danaher, why did he struggle at Hampshire Fannett before he got the Calallen job?

Can't coach speed can ya? Why are those regions so weak when you compare them to DFW or East Texas?

What was the main staple of those LaMarque teams that beat Calallen 6 straight years? Speed and athletes. Before you mention Stephenville they were blessed with some outstanding QB's and skill players too.

dragonsdaddy
09-09-2010, 02:17 PM
Can't coach speed can ya? Why are those regions so weak when you compare them to DFW or East Texas?

What was the main staple of those LaMarque teams that beat Calallen 6 straight years? Speed and athletes. Before you mention Stephenville they were blessed with some outstanding QB's and skill players too.

and unless i'm way off here, they had some pretty fine coaching out that way too. and baylor is thanking them for sharing.

farmerfan
09-09-2010, 02:19 PM
and unless i'm way off here, they had some pretty fine coaching out that way too. and baylor is thanking them for sharing.

Briles is nothing without RJ3 :D;)

maxtor
09-09-2010, 02:54 PM
Curious as to what you saw on the field that day, the remainder of the year, or the subsequent college careers of the players that would lead you to believe that SLC was the better team?

I can certainly see that a play here and a play there that the outcome may have been different, but I find it hard to come up with an argument for SLC.

Ohhh, I dont know. Maybe it was the almost exactly even stats and maybe the 5 turnovers. Subsequent college careers? LOL, surely you jest? Kinda like Carter and Skyline? There have been a pile of teams across the country that had more talent than SLC in 07 that were worse than they were.
I have an opinion and I may be wrong. Well never know, but saying that SLC was the better team is within the envelope of what is reasonable.
We wont talk about the leg cramps.:rolleyes:

maxtor
09-09-2010, 02:58 PM
and like with any call it is udnerstandable why a lot would question it, is it ok to use "a lot' here? :)

That being said though, do you think Dodge ever made a boneheaded decision that he was ultimately saved on?

Abilene#1 comes to mind facing a 3rd and short and instead of getting the first down to ice the game he goes long, does not convert and Abilene gets teh ball back, scores, pulls to within 5, recovers the onside, is moving the ball with Kolby Lewis in the backfield and then for some reason negelct giving it to Kolby and Potts throws an int in the endzone to preserve the Carroll victory. The only poster I have ever seen criticize that choice of play calling has been DD :)

How do you remember this stuff? I have to say Farmer you have me and others at a huge disadvantage with your insane mega memory.

I cant remember my wedding.

I cant remember my brother that died when I was 15 which was about 30 something years ago.

You really dont have any idea the price that is paid for my crappier than heck memory. It makes me look like I dont care, it costs me money, it costs me time, it makes me look stupid(no jokes), I miss appointments, forget to return calls etc. Such is my plight.

I cant remember.........what was I talking about..........

farmerfan
09-09-2010, 03:12 PM
How do you remember this stuff? I have to say Farmer you have me and others at a huge disadvantage with your insane mega memory.

I cant remember my wedding.

I cant remember my brother that died when I was 15 which was about 30 something years ago.

You really dont have any idea the price that is paid for my crappier than heck memory. It makes me look like I dont care, it costs me money, it costs me time, it makes me look stupid(no jokes), I miss appointments, forget to return calls etc. Such is my plight.

I cant remember.........what was I talking about..........


I have seen DD bring up that particular play a time or two.

A good memory can be bad for you though. Especially when you remember some of the smallest details and remind somebody of them, yeah, that will lead to a fight 11 times out of 10

Trojanalum693
09-09-2010, 03:24 PM
It comes down to trust. Abilene trusts their coach. Katy trusts their coach. They are all human and make game mistakes (uh-oh, Flee is going to come after me now....:D), but the fans accept it because of the trust. See Lineweaver and the fake punt. They seem to be over that now don't they? ;)



some Trinity fans aren't over that yet. I am not one of those. Some of my friends to this day still can't get over it.

Trojanalum693
09-09-2010, 03:28 PM
So it is best to watch out what you say. In college it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy by hurting recruiting. Reputation is EVERYTHING. and you are not guaranteed a better replacement.[/QUOTE]

Correct. See Bill Callahan of Nebraska and any one of Notre Dame's coaches since Holtz and Ron Zook of Florida.

maxtor
09-09-2010, 03:37 PM
I have lived in SL for 20 years and the city has changed. Still a nice city to live in and good schools but the city used to have the feel of rural FW and not like N. Dallas. The city now has more of the feel of N. Dallas (not meaning to indict everyone in N. Dallas but you know what I mean) rather than FW. By that I mean it is more focused on flash, bling and parents more consumed with self than family.

I agree, then again you just described the entire United States. The moral decline is a systemic phenomenon and not unique to Southlake.
Anytime that wealth is increased there will be a corresponding rise in the bling factor.

An example of that has been pointed out in the atmosphere of the home games. More about being seen than being there dressed in jeans and a t-shirt and getting into the game.

Ive been to maybe a hundred home games at Southlake since the mid 80' along with a pile of other games and teams. I simply dont see the SLC crowd dressing up for the games, a few Trophy wives aside. Go sit with the Dallas Carter fans and you'll see some dress'in up.

Friday night high school football in SL used to be a really big deal. It was a source of real pride and a gathering of the community. Now it is still something many of us really enjoy doing but our community is focused on other things as the demographics and interests of SL have changed.

Again, people had much less money back then and no computer or Iphones or XBoxes. EVERY fan base has more options now than then.
But I agree, there was a feel and atmosphere about the 3A glory days that cant be replicated. But that is the nature of moving from 3A to 5A.


Parents leave kids alone much more at earlier ages and they get involved in unhealthy things.

I disagree completely. Children/youth/teenagers of the 80' had far more leeway in playing outside and further away than now. Kids would ride their bikes to far and unknown locations compared to now days.

Some of it is two parents working so they can live in SL, some of it is they are enjoying life themselves rather than taking care of family.

98% of the graduating class goes to college! I dont have the numbers but I would imagine that Southlake would fair well when comparing pregnancy, suicide, drug addiction, abortion and crime amongst the student body to other schools. It could be said that possibly that the students are in grafted with a sense of superiority and entitlement. But then again that isnt something that the parents impart to them. That is the product of excelling at every single thing that they do I would imagine.

I don't know if SL has the same % of kids involved in drugs, alcohol or other crime as some of the less wealthy areas of the metroplex. The arrest and conviction stats in SL probably look better just because SL parents can afford lawyers.

LOL. Now THATS funny. No, low crime is a product of 2 parent families where mom and dad went to college and work and excel themselves. Also when you go to school and do homework and extra curricular activities at school then their isnt much need to break into your neighbors car and steal an IPod that you already had anyway.

in SL wealth used to mean they owned some acreage. Now there is plenty of other wealth. The kids today have become a little richer, a little softer, more distracted with things money can buy. The wealth still allows families to afford the best training, etc. so the kids are still well trained.

You just described everywhere again, the whole country is softer. Their kids are well trained? Since when did that suck?

I'll conclude and say, like other posters SLC football has not been mediocre. That record speaks for itself. The kids though have become softer, more indulged than ever, as interested in their car or truck or the clothes they wear rather, more interested in what they are putting in their nose and mouth than what happens on Friday night. This isn't a coaching problem, it really isn't even the kids (they are children) fault. I would throw issue back to parenting and allowing ourselves to take the focus off them and putting the spotlight on what we enjoy doing rather than being the best parents we can be.

Farmer is right on many points. It really is about many parents thinking SL is Perfectville. That they can indulge little Johnny with money, cars, turning a head to their bad habits and then they should just become the next top Division I prospect. This isn't poor me as I would guess I may be one of the wealthier people in SL. My own kids are also over indulged. Maybe SL is a little like the Roman empire. SL may decline with its decadence.

SL isn't mediocre, it's football domination maybe in decline because we are not as hungry and we are softer. Still a nice place to live. It isn't about coaching its about the parents, and the softer kids on the field.

Your post is nothing but a litany of unfounded generalizations. I take it that you are not one of those that are loaded, educated and have kids excelling at SLC.
I take up for those Southlakians. I myself am uneducated, pretty dumb and WISHED I lived in Southlake. For now I live in Southlake Light, Aledo.

Funny story;

Years ago at the old 3A Dragon stadium I was sitting on the visitors side next to 2 graying men in overalls and John Deere caps. As they sat there they were overlooking some of those giant houses and one of them said to the other,

"Jim, what would you do if you live in one of them there big houses?"

His friend responded,

" I would take a sip of champagne and slam the glass in the fireplace, and then git me another".


LOL:heli:

maxtor
09-09-2010, 03:42 PM
some Trinity fans aren't over that yet. I am not one of those. Some of my friends to this day still can't get over it.

I think Lineweaver done the right thing with the fake. He was 1 open field tackle away from having a 100 foot statue erected on 183 like Sam Houston on I45.
Trinity would have won the game if it worked. Also, Trinity could still have stopped SLC, SLC had only scored 15 to that point.

Trojanalum693
09-09-2010, 03:45 PM
I think Lineweaver done the right thing with the fake. He was 1 open field tackle away from having a 100 foot statue erected on 183 like Sam Houston on I45.
Trinity would have won the game if it worked. Also, Trinity could still have stopped SLC, SLC had only scored 15 to that point.


Agreed.

SLCbacker
09-09-2010, 04:50 PM
How do you remember this stuff? I have to say Farmer you have me and others at a huge disadvantage with your insane mega memory.
I cant remember my wedding.

I cant remember my brother that died when I was 15 which was about 30 something years ago.

You really dont have any idea the price that is paid for my crappier than heck memory. It makes me look like I dont care, it costs me money, it costs me time, it makes me look stupid(no jokes), I miss appointments, forget to return calls etc. Such is my plight.

I cant remember.........what was I talking about..........

Has to be the Vodka! :D

QQQ
09-09-2010, 05:31 PM
I think Lineweaver done the right thing with the fake. He was 1 open field tackle away from having a 100 foot statue erected on 183 like Sam Houston on I45.
Trinity would have won the game if it worked. Also, Trinity could still have stopped SLC, SLC had only scored 15 to that point.

Not hardly....... If Lineweaver's crew made that first down, the crystal ball says the next play would have been a fumbled pitch anyway.... and one of Mendoza's LB's would have scooped it up and raced for the score..... then history would have to be rewritten, because rather than TD at UNT, it would have been HC Ron Mendoza...... and TD would still be in the safehaven of SLC winning his 7th consecutive state title in '10. Wow.... gotta go & get another hit off the hooka