The federal government can do anything!

[Mong Hu]

I came across this and it is truly mind-boggling. It is stunning to see a member of our Congress state that the federal government can do almost anything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1-eBz8hyoE

TWO WORDS: ENUMERATED POWERS!!!

Section 8: The Congress shall have power To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defence and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;
To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;
To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;
To establish post offices and post roads;
To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;
To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;
To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;
To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;
To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;
To provide and maintain a navy;
To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;
To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;—And
To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

This is what our Congress can do. To be sure certain powers are indeed broad but for a member of Congress to state that the federal government can do almost anything is just simply stunning and frightening IMHO.

[the_phoenix612]

I came across this and it is truly mind-boggling. It is stunning to see a member of our Congress state that the federal government can do almost anything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1-eBz8hyoE

TWO WORDS: ENUMERATED POWERS!!!

Section 8: The Congress shall have power To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defence and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;
To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;
To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;
To establish post offices and post roads;
To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;
To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;
To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;
To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;
To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;
To provide and maintain a navy;
To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;
To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;—And
To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

This is what our Congress can do. To be sure certain powers are indeed broad but for a member of Congress to state that the federal government can do almost anything is just simply stunning and frightening IMHO.
:rofl:

[DrEdward]

I came across this and it is truly mind-boggling. It is stunning to see a member of our Congress state that the federal government can do almost anything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1-eBz8hyoE

TWO WORDS: ENUMERATED POWERS!!!

.................

This is what our Congress can do. To be sure certain powers are indeed broad but for a member of Congress to state that the federal government can do almost anything is just simply stunning and frightening IMHO.


Quite right, but also this guy's words are also quite consistent with the prevalent attitude in Congress today. :( No wonder that these idiots manage an 11% well-done rating. Really make one wonder as to who the 11% are and what on earth they are thinking.

[JagFan]

Quite right, but also this guy's words are also quite consistent with the prevalent attitude in Congress today. :( No wonder that these idiots manage an 11% well-done rating. Really make one wonder as to who the 11% are and what on earth they are thinking.

Relatives

[chhspantherfan]

Quite right, but also this guy's words are also quite consistent with the prevalent attitude in Congress today. :( No wonder that these idiots manage an 11% well-done rating. Really make one wonder as to who the 11% are and what on earth they are thinking.

see post #2

[DrEdward]

see post #2

Okay.

[mojotrain]

He controls healthcare, banking and working on energy. A lame duck congress knowing they are done and frankly have been paid off to the extent they no longer care about America will stick a devils fork in the Constitution after the November elections. The three legged stool will fall.

The first time I said, "we have met the enemy and they is us" on this site, I was portrayed as a crazy old lunitic with limited to zero intelligence by those whose agenda is to promote a goverment of marxism or worse in the USA then a final goal of America becoming a equal but subservant member to a one world goverment.

[chhspantherfan]

He controls healthcare, banking and working on energy. A lame duck congress knowing they are done and frankly have been paid off to the extent they no longer care about America will stick a devils fork in the Constitution after the November elections. The three legged stool will fall.

The first time I said, "we have met the enemy and they is us" on this site, I was portrayed as a crazy old lunitic with limited to zero intelligence by those whose agenda is to promote a goverment of marxism or worse in the USA then a final goal of America becoming a equal but subservant member to a one world goverment.

Well the pantherhouse loves us some crazy old lunatic from west Texas. Keep the faith, it will get better.

[drgnbkr]

Well the pantherhouse loves us some crazy old lunatic from west Texas. Keep the faith, it will get better.

As far as the administration and congress, it can't get much worse, so we can hope for change.

[The King]

I have long been a proponent of putting a fence around DC and letting the rest of the country govern itself.

[dragonpants]

I came across this and it is truly mind-boggling. It is stunning to see a member of our Congress state that the federal government can do almost anything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1-eBz8hyoE

TWO WORDS: ENUMERATED POWERS!!!

Section 8: The Congress shall have power To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defence and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;
To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;
To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;
To establish post offices and post roads;
To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;
To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;
To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;
To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;
To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;
To provide and maintain a navy;
To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;
To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;—And
To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

This is what our Congress can do. To be sure certain powers are indeed broad but for a member of Congress to state that the federal government can do almost anything is just simply stunning and frightening IMHO.

I can believe this house plant actually held a town meeting. He has no charisma what so ever. He keeps getting re-elected because everyone is familiar with him, is so rampant in the House of Representatives. Some one on his staff should tell him to just keep hiding out. No reason to to make any public appearances at all, now people might actually be aware of who they voted for.

[b756561]

I came across this and it is truly mind-boggling. It is stunning to see a member of our Congress state that the federal government can do almost anything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1-eBz8hyoE

TWO WORDS: ENUMERATED POWERS!!!

Section 8: The Congress shall have power To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defence and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;
To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;
To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;
To establish post offices and post roads;
To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;
To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;
To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;
To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;
To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;
To provide and maintain a navy;
To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;
To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;—And
To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

This is what our Congress can do. To be sure certain powers are indeed broad but for a member of Congress to state that the federal government can do almost anything is just simply stunning and frightening IMHO.

Congress uses Art. 1, Sec. 8, Clause 1 the "taxing power" and Art. 1, Sec. 8, Clause 3 the "Commmerce Clause" for over 90% of everything government does. Art. 1, Sec. 8, Clause 18 the "Necessary and Proper Clause" allows Congress to do just about ANYTHING that they (Congress) SAY can be traced back to either Clause 1 or 3. That's why Obama is now claiming, in court, that the Health Care bill is actually a tax bill. If they can prove that in court, then the bill will be legal.

[drgnbkr]

Congress uses Art. 1, Sec. 8, Clause 1 the "taxing power" and Art. 1, Sec. 8, Clause 3 the "Commmerce Clause" for over 90% of everything government does. Art. 1, Sec. 8, Clause 18 the "Necessary and Proper Clause" allows Congress to do just about ANYTHING that they (Congress) SAY can be traced back to either Clause 1 or 3. That's why Obama is now claiming, in court, that the Health Care bill is actually a tax bill. If they can prove that in court, then the bill will be legal.

It will be repealed, or at least a lot of states will opt out of it. It is a disaster.

[DrEdward]

Congress uses Art. 1, Sec. 8, Clause 1 the "taxing power" and Art. 1, Sec. 8, Clause 3 the "Commmerce Clause" for over 90% of everything government does. Art. 1, Sec. 8, Clause 18 the "Necessary and Proper Clause" allows Congress to do just about ANYTHING that they (Congress) SAY can be traced back to either Clause 1 or 3. That's why Obama is now claiming, in court, that the Health Care bill is actually a tax bill. If they can prove that in court, then the bill will be legal.

That is because they are worried that what they have done is on shaky constitutional grounds. So they now want to call it a tax. Of course, obama assured everyone that it was no such thing when trying to ram it through. Not to mention that such would once again violate his pledge not to increase taxes on those making unde a quarter million a year.

[TexasRed6x]

I'll just say this...the federal government can kiss my :Censor:!

[the_phoenix612]

Texans make me :rofl:

y'all are so far removed from reality, it's more fun reading these threads than watching TV. More sad, though.

[mad_fan]

Texans make me :rofl:

y'all are so far removed from reality, it's more fun reading these threads than watching TV. More sad, though.

feenix Reality = Californication...;)

[dragonsdaddy]

feenix Reality = Kalifornication...;)
fify

[b756561]

That is because they are worried that what they have done is on shaky constitutional grounds. So they now want to call it a tax. Of course, obama assured everyone that it was no such thing when trying to ram it through. Not to mention that such would once again violate his pledge not to increase taxes on those making unde a quarter million a year.

The 10th. Amendment states; "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people." No where does the Constitution mention or even imply anything about insurance. Therefore according to the 10th. Amendment to the Constitution, insurance should be left to the "states respectively, or to the people." IF Obama wins this case, then it will make the 10th. Amendment meaningless. The Federal Government is now saying that all powers are delegated to them. That they can do ANYTHING that they say is within their power. If the National Gov't. can make you buy this insurance, what can they not make you do if they so decide. The precedent will be set. Believe it or not, they could then REQUIRE you to buy a GM product instead of an import. Think that's not true, think again. Using the same line of reasoning that brought you National Health Insurance (Government saying this is what's best for you and the nation) could not government say that buying domestic is what's best for you and the nation. And remember, if you decide to ride a bicycle to work instead of buying the Government Motors automobile, government will place a special tax on you for interfering with interstate trade. AND if you do not pay that tax, YOU WILL GO TO JAIL. Too many people forget that this health care law has that written into it.
You can say goodbye to Federalism in this country. Gone forever will be our cherished notion of a separation of powers between the federal government and the states.
Can the title "King Barack" be far behind?

[slcdragonfan]

This just seemed appropriate:

http://graphjam.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/song-chart-memes-rem-world.jpg

[shslb15]

The 10th. Amendment states; "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people." No where does the Constitution mention or even imply anything about insurance. Therefore according to the 10th. Amendment to the Constitution, insurance should be left to the "states respectively, or to the people." IF Obama wins this case, then it will make the 10th. Amendment meaningless. The Federal Government is now saying that all powers are delegated to them. That they can do ANYTHING that they say is within their power. If the National Gov't. can make you buy this insurance, what can they not make you do if they so decide. The precedent will be set. Believe it or not, they could then REQUIRE you to buy a GM product instead of an import. Think that's not true, think again. Using the same line of reasoning that brought you National Health Insurance (Government saying this is what's best for you and the nation) could not government say that buying domestic is what's best for you and the nation. And remember, if you decide to ride a bicycle to work instead of buying the Government Motors automobile, government will place a special tax on you for interfering with interstate trade. AND if you do not pay that tax, YOU WILL GO TO JAIL. Too many people forget that this health care law has that written into it.
You can say goodbye to Federalism in this country. Gone forever will be our cherished notion of a separation of powers between the federal government and the states.
Can the title "King Barack" be far behind?

Scary thought, I am reading the Debates at the Constitutional Convention right now for a government class. And it is going step by step through each debate on preventing these very problems through the different steps to creating our constitution.

I was having trouble thinking of how to write part of a paper for this class because it was stating that checks and balances and the other aspects of our complex government can prevent bad people for doing any serious injustice. After reading this post and then looking back at the question and the debates I think it is true that it should but just looking at what is happening now, this is only true when you follow what is written in the constitution, which as of recently is no longer the case.

So I pose the question, "They say that because of checks and balances and all of the other paraphernalia of complex government, civic virtue isn't really necessary, bad people will keep each other from doing any serious injustice. Do you think this claim is true?"

[slcdragonfan]

Scary thought, I am reading the Debates at the Constitutional Convention right now for a government class. And it is going step by step through each debate on preventing these very problems through the different steps to creating our constitution.

I was having trouble thinking of how to write part of a paper for this class because it was stating that checks and balances and the other aspects of our complex government can prevent bad people for doing any serious injustice. After reading this post and then looking back at the question and the debates I think it is true that it should but just looking at what is happening now, this is only true when you follow what is written in the constitution, which as of recently is no longer the case.

So I pose the question, "They say that because of checks and balances and all of the other paraphernalia of complex government, civic virtue isn't really necessary, bad people will keep each other from doing any serious injustice. Do you think this claim is true?"

No.

[shslb15]

No.

I agree with you here currently, but as they were composing the constitution I do think with what was written does accomplish this. I think over time people have trashed what was written, taking somethings written in the constitution and twisting it to fulfill what they are seeking to accomplish.

[slcdragonfan]

I agree with you here currently, but as they were composing the constitution I do think with what was written does accomplish this. I think over time people have trashed what was written, taking somethings written in the constitution and twisting it to fulfill what they are seeking to accomplish.

It is probably about as good as it can get in heading toward that goal, considering man's propensity to self-aggrandizement.

I prefer to think about their concerns regarding the tyranny of the majority or of factions.

Another issue: they had slaves. How could one consider a human being as chattel? They were not perfect, yet, as the saying goes:

Many forms of Government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.
-Winston Churchill

I think that applies here.

[b756561]

Scary thought, I am reading the Debates at the Constitutional Convention right now for a government class. And it is going step by step through each debate on preventing these very problems through the different steps to creating our constitution.

I was having trouble thinking of how to write part of a paper for this class because it was stating that checks and balances and the other aspects of our complex government can prevent bad people for doing any serious injustice. After reading this post and then looking back at the question and the debates I think it is true that it should but just looking at what is happening now, this is only true when you follow what is written in the constitution, which as of recently is no longer the case.

So I pose the question, "They say that because of checks and balances and all of the other paraphernalia of complex government, civic virtue isn't really necessary, bad people will keep each other from doing any serious injustice. Do you think this claim is true?"

In my humble opinion, this statement is correct. Why? Because the final arbitrator is the people. If you are unresponsive to the people long enough, they will take action to remove you from your position of authority. You can only push the public so far before they push back and they will usually push back harder than you had anticipated. Witness the Tea Party movement. Say whatever you want about it, it's name, or the people who it is composed of, they are there because they felt they had been pushed too far. If government doesn't quit pushing them and the rest of the people in a direction the people do not wish to go, the next grouping that arises may be even more powerful and politically astute. What happened when the people felt Bush and the Republicans were pushing the country in a direction the people did not wish to go? Will the same thing happen this November? I think the people will push firmly against the direction Obama and the Democrats are trying to push this country. (I do not think the Republicans will take over either house of Congress.) If Obama and the Democrats do not take the people's message to heart and they continue this path they are on, in 2012 I believe you will see a watershed election sweeping a large portion of Democrats out of office and replacing them with people who will tear down what the Democrats are trying to do against the expressed will of the people. Government is supposed to represent the wishes of the population, not be BIG BROTHER.

[shslb15]

In my humble opinion, this statement is correct. Why? Because the final arbitrator is the people. If you are unresponsive to the people long enough, they will take action to remove you from your position of authority. You can only push the public so far before they push back and they will usually push back harder than you had anticipated. Witness the Tea Party movement. Say whatever you want about it, it's name, or the people who it is composed of, they are there because they felt they had been pushed too far. If government doesn't quit pushing them and the rest of the people in a direction the people do not wish to go, the next grouping that arises may be even more powerful and politically astute. What happened when the people felt Bush and the Republicans were pushing the country in a direction the people did not wish to go? Will the same thing happen this November? I think the people will push firmly against the direction Obama and the Democrats are trying to push this country. (I do not think the Republicans will take over either house of Congress.) If Obama and the Democrats do not take the people's message to heart and they continue this path they are on, in 2012 I believe you will see a watershed election sweeping a large portion of Democrats out of office and replacing them with people who will tear down what the Democrats are trying to do against the expressed will of the people. Government is supposed to represent the wishes of the population, not be BIG BROTHER.

I agree with this 100% I was only thinking in the sense of checks and balances, not in the sense of the people. In the end, as you say the governments ultimate check and balance is the people. The beginning of the question is "some people are pessimistic about the chances of making people virtuous but optimistic about the chances of having good government without virtue." I am pessimistic about making people virtuous because I feel what is virtuous to some isn't virtuous to others. A bill that can be passed that would be harmful to our country (of course this is in the opinion of who it is harmful to) has the ability to be vetoed or shot down in the other house. But in the end, if the people don't believe in the what is being passed by our government they have the ability to elect those who will represent them, thus the ultimate check and balance.

[dragonsdaddy]

I agree with this 100% I was only thinking in the sense of checks and balances, not in the sense of the people. In the end, as you say the governments ultimate check and balance is the people. The beginning of the question is "some people are pessimistic about the chances of making people virtuous but optimistic about the chances of having good government without virtue." I am pessimistic about making people virtuous because I feel what is virtuous to some isn't virtuous to others. A bill that can be passed that would be harmful to our country (of course this is in the opinion of who it is harmful to) has the ability to be vetoed or shot down in the other house. But in the end, if the people don't believe in the what is being passed by our government they have the ability to elect those who will represent them, thus the ultimate check and balance.
unfortunately the unwashed masses are also the uneducated, illiterate, idiocratic, tmz-malleable, inertial, and dupe-able masses who can be manipulated through many forms of mass mendacity. the ff's had it right when they desired to make this union a republic, not a democracy.

[the_phoenix612]

unfortunately the unwashed masses are also the uneducated, illiterate, idiocratic, tmz-malleable, inertial, and dupe-able masses who can be manipulated through many forms of mass mendacity. the ff's had it right when they desired to make this union a republic, not a democracy.
Something upon which we can agree, finally.

[slcdragonfan]

unfortunately the unwashed masses are also the uneducated, illiterate, idiocratic, tmz-malleable, inertial, and dupe-able masses who can be manipulated through many forms of mass mendacity. the ff's had it right when they desired to make this union a republic, not a democracy.

+1000

[ktCarl]

Something upon which we can agree, finally.


...and sometimes the educated ones are just as scary.

[ktCarl]

These girls say we can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dX7UO-4X9c

[GoOwls]

unfortunately the unwashed masses are also the uneducated, illiterate, idiocratic, tmz-malleable, inertial, and dupe-able masses who can be manipulated through many forms of mass mendacity. the ff's had it right when they desired to make this union a republic, not a democracy.

How many times have I posted that via my 26 1/2 years of observing people on the job, that maybe a maximum of 10% of adults who are voting age are actually qualified to vote in our elections. The rest have no clue why they vote the way they do.

I have no problem with people who vote opposite the way I do, as long as they know why they are voting the way they do and not just because some internet site spewed spewage and formed their opinions for them...just like I can't stand people who vote with me and have no idea why they did....ignorance on both sides of the aisle is unacceptable.