Mack Brown on ESPN Radio - Tues. 2:35

[Favpack]

Mack Brown will be on Dan Patrick's show in a few minutes. He's apparently pretty hot about the recent criticism on Vince, and the leaking of his test score.

[GTown02]

I love listening to ESPN radio no matter what im doing... So i'm definitely listening to it right now...

[Drake]

Mack Brown will be on Dan Patrick's show in a few minutes. He's apparently pretty hot about the recent criticism on Vince, and the leaking of his test score.Maybe he should have made him go to class...

[KT2000]

Maybe he should have made him go to class...

How do you know he wasn't in class?

[Favpack]

Mack was Mack - calm, cool and very supportive of Vince. Reminded us that the experts NEVER picked Benson to go 4th last year, but that he was disappointed when Chris Simms slid down on draft day. I think this flap will blow over in a few weeks, but Vince needs some savvy advisers to help him out.

Ohh, and he also noted Vince was just a few hours shy of graduating next December - which was his original plan - so, don't knock him there.

[dada]

The QB of the National Champs.....they are gonna try to find all the dirt they can. Remember...this is USC's world Vince is trying to invade.

[GTown02]

Maybe he should have made him go to class...
He's 3 credit hours away from a diploma. He sure didnt go to class.... :rolleyes:

[Daniel Agnew]

He's 3 credit hours away from a diploma. He sure didnt go to class.... :rolleyes:


Man he could take that class over the web & finish.

[jtk1519]

People are quick to forget that not only is Vince just a couple of hours shy of his degree, but that he was also named to the Athletics Director’s Academic Honor Roll while at Texas. By all accounts, Vince was a very good student.

What people don't want to consider is that Vince's management is getting in over their heads and failed to prepare Vince for the Wonderlic. People don't want to think that maybe Vince got a little nervous and rushed things just a bit. No, it's easier to just call him stupid and make comments about how he never went to class... despite the fact that all the facts suggest just the opposite.

[Drake]

I have no idea if he went to class... Rumor has it that he wasn't much of a student or scholar... Rumor also has it that his teammates knew him belovedly as "Radio"... I can't say for sure if any of this is true, but I looked at and took the sample Wonderlic test on ESPN's website and if that was any indication of the difficulty of the test VY took, then he should have done better than 6 OR 16 if he's really that close to having a college degree from the state's premier institution...

[Drake]

There are 50 questions on the Wonderlic test... Wonderlic claims a score of TWENTY correct indicates an IQ of about 100... Even if VY didn't score SIX but really scored SIXTEEN, how in the hell did he pass enough college courses to be within 3 hours of earning a degree?

Defend him and the different standards for college athletes all you want, but this just doesn't add up...

[jtk1519]

Using the Wonderlic to measure one's IQ is like using a potato to measure your home's square footage... That's not what it was made for and it doesn't make any sense to use it for such a task.

[Drake]

By the way, for those interested or haven't seen the sample test:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=020228test

[Slim-Rob]

There are 50 questions on the Wonderlic test... Wonderlic claims a score of TWENTY correct indicates an IQ of about 100... Even if VY didn't score SIX but really scored SIXTEEN, how in the hell did he pass enough college courses to be within 3 hours of earning a degree?

Defend him and the different standards for college athletes all you want, but this just doesn't add up...

he might not have been prepared. If you don't know what to expect you are not going to do good.

[Drake]

Using the Wonderlic to measure one's IQ is like using a potato to measure your home's square footage... That's not what it was made for and it doesn't make any sense to use it for such a task.Okay, but the NFL is administering it to measure something, what do you suppose they are trying to determine with it?

[jtk1519]

He wasn't prepared... his agent all but admitted that. Imagine walking the halls of your high school as a senior only to find out that in 30 minutes you are going to be taking your SAT... and it will be timed.

[jtk1519]

Okay, but the NFL is administering it to measure something, what do you suppose they are trying to determine with it?

It's not used to measure intelligence... the NFL has said as much. It's more a test of comprehension and problem solving in a constricted time frame. All the NFL cares about is how fast you can take it with a reasonable degree of accuracy.

Example: Last year, Harvard QB Ryan Fitzpatrick took the Wonderlic and scored a perfect 50. However, the score is not what impressed the NFL. The fact that Fitzpatrick finished the test in just over 9 minutes is what impressed them.

BTW, Fitzpatrick struggled to complete 56% of his passes while throwing 2 INTs for every 1 TD with the Rams this past season.

[Drake]

I'm not degrading VY as a football player or anything else... There are all kinds of intelligence... The guy that fixes cars may not do well on this test either, but he has more mechanical aptitude than most (in other words, a different kind of intelligence)... VY can see a football field like Mozart sees a piece of music... But don't sit there and defend a 16 on the Wonderlic test... That test is nothing like the SAT and if its result has any significant bearing on how well college QBs make the transition to the NFL, then VY is in a heap of trouble... Because NO college student, ESPECIALLY a University of Texas student near graduation, should have ANY trouble with that test, whether they were prepared or not!

[jtk1519]

I scored a 1450 on my SAT while maintaining a very low B- average. A good friend of mine had a solid A average and was top 20% of our class but had to take the SAT a couple of times to get an 1100 (he really bombed his first attempt).

Some people test well... some don't. Some people need to prepare... some don't. Some people thrive under that pressure... some people fold like a new pair of underwear.

For a long time I have spared this board my amazingly long and drawn-out rant on the weaknesses and impracticalities of standardized testing. I will continue to hold back, but my grip is slipping. Let me just say that using such a broad and static ruler to try and judge the intelligence and capabilities of such a large number of different individuals is the pinnacle of absurdity and futility.

[Drake]

I agree with your last line... but I also stand by the last line of my previous post, AND again... The Wonderlic test is not the same as the SAT!

[KattTx]

I don't play Xbox, but I end up watching the kiddo play it. Is it me, or are these same questions ( or very near these) on NCAA or Madden?


(totally irrelevant, but I was curious :o )

[jtk1519]

I agree with your last line... but I also stand by the last line of my previous post, AND again... The Wonderlic test is not the same as the SAT!

A standardized test is a standardized test. Their degrees and approaches may be different, but their futility is the same and to make such a broad and generalized statement as you have based on a form of testing that we both agree is pointless is ignorant to say the very least.

[Drake]

I don't play Xbox, but I end up watching the kiddo play it. Is it me, or are these same questions ( or very near these) on NCAA or Madden?


(totally irrelevant, but I was curious :o )WHAT?

[Drake]

A standardized test is a standardized test. Their degrees and approaches may be different, but their futility is the same and to make such a broad and generalized statement as you have based on a form of testing that we both agree is pointless is ignorant to say the very least.jtk - be honest...

Did you look at the questions? If you were hiring a graduate from the University of Texas and they scored 32% on a test like this, would you be wary of hiring them?

[Drake]

I don't play Xbox, but I end up watching the kiddo play it. Is it me, or are these same questions ( or very near these) on NCAA or Madden?


(totally irrelevant, but I was curious :o )Are you being facetious?

[jtk1519]

jtk - be honest...

Did you look at the questions? If you were hiring a graduate from the University of Texas and they scored 32% on a test like this, would you be wary of hiring them?

Not at all, but I never would have given them the test to begin with. Why use one capricious test result, that has little if anything to do with that particular field of work, to represent a person's entire body of educational work? That just doesn't make any sense.

[Drake]

Not at all, but I never would have given them the test to begin with. Why use one capricious test result, that has little if anything to do with that particular field of work, to represent a person's entire body of educational work? That just doesn't make any sense.Well, even if you wouldn't use it to validate or invalidate their educational body of work, don't you think an utter failure on such an easy test may point to potential cognitive or reasoning shortcomings? (remember, you're under oath)

[jtk1519]

Well, even if you wouldn't use it to validate or invalidate their educational body of work, don't you think an utter failure on such an easy test may point to potential cognitive or reasoning shortcomings? (remember, you're under oath)

Only... and I stress only... if such shortcomings were evident in the person's overall body of educational work so as to suggest a certain pattern of intellectual inadequacies. There is no such evidence to support such a claim on the behalf of Vince Young. All we have is speculation, but Vince's placement on the UT Athletic Director's Academic Honor Roll is one piece of evidence that suggests no such inadequacies exist. Until a pattern of failures and shortcomings can be documented and proven, it is grossly unfair and somewhat malicious to use just one inconsequential test result as grounds for degrading a young man's intelligence.

[Drake]

Only... and I stress only... if such shortcomings were evident in the person's overall body of educational work so as to suggest a certain pattern of intellectual inadequacies. There is no such evidence to support such a claim on the behalf of Vince Young. All we have is speculation, but Vince's placement on the UT Athletic Director's Academic Honor Roll is one piece of evidence that suggests no such inadequacies exist. Until a pattern of failures and shortcomings can be documented and proven, it is grossly unfair and somewhat malicious to use just one inconsequential test result as grounds for degrading a young man's intelligence.That's more than reasonable... I think they're trying to get all the info they can before they invest millions in these guys... I'm sure the test carries minimal weight in their overall determinations...

[jtk1519]

That's more than reasonable... I think they're trying to get all the info they can before they invest millions in these guys... I'm sure the test carries minimal weight in their overall determinations...

I would agree.

[ktchamp97]

Vince's teammates NEVER called him Radio...that was our friend "Aggy". The term was not coined to be "beloved" either. It was done so to make fun of him, saying that he was ********...a ridiculous and offensive (if not racist) gesture.

[Drake]

I don't know "aggy"... I read the "Radio" rumor on a couple of other websites... Even if it was only meant to demean, someone calling someone else "********" offends you?

[ktchamp97]

I don't know "aggy"... I read the "Radio" rumor on a couple of other websites... Even if it was only meant to demean, someone calling someone else "********" offends you?

Shouldn't it?

I don't like to see people demeaning other people...I guess that makes me weird or something? :confused: It's especially true when they're doing it to a guy I admire and want to see do well.

[jtk1519]

The use of the nickname "Radio" is offensive not only because of it's implications of mental retardation, but also because of it's very strong racist implications. I still remember some of the first threads on Texags to use the name "Radio" when speaking of Vince and I was stunned beyond words because of all the blatant racist rhetoric. It's sad that aggy stooped to such lows, but it is important to remember that most aggy are not guilty of this. The ones that are bring new meaning to the term "pathetic".

[SVite]

It's not used to measure intelligence... the NFL has said as much. It's more a test of comprehension and problem solving in a constricted time frame. All the NFL cares about is how fast you can take it with a reasonable degree of accuracy.

Example: Last year, Harvard QB Ryan Fitzpatrick took the Wonderlic and scored a perfect 50. However, the score is not what impressed the NFL. The fact that Fitzpatrick finished the test in just over 9 minutes is what impressed them.

BTW, Fitzpatrick struggled to complete 56% of his passes while throwing 2 INTs for every 1 TD with the Rams this past season.

The NFL wants smart,but not too smart.If your too smart your not too coachable,and your not like a soldier doing exactly what your told.Your gonna figure a better way to it,and cause waves.They want middle of the road scores.To me i think it`s a liitle stupid!How about 50 questions that pertain to your upcomming profession.Myself i could`nt believe he even took it!When your stock is that high comming out of college,live off your stock,and let the question marks be question marks!

[Drake]

Shouldn't it? I don't like to see people demeaning other people...I guess that makes me weird or something? :confused: It's especially true when they're doing it to a guy I admire and want to see do well.Well, weird in a good way... :) No one is above feeling a bit of schadenfreude when those that are seemingly invincible falter... If you never do, you are a better person than most...

I thought the "Radio" comment was kind of funny, did not see anything too disparaging about it... And I'm being as objective and fair as I can when I say I don't think VY will excel as a QB in the NFL, AND I've explained why without demeaning him personally... A 16 on the Wonderlic test is what it is... He scored it and its not very good... The NFL gives it for a reason... If it's meaningless and not a reflection of his aptitude or cognitive reasoning then they shouldn't use it... If it is a useful indication, then pointing to it to help make a point is not really demeaning at all... If you still think it is, then blame Vince Young, he's the one that scored 16 and brought all this demeaning negativity towards him about... No?

[SVite]

I scored a 1450 on my SAT while maintaining a very low B- average. A good friend of mine had a solid A average and was top 20% of our class but had to take the SAT a couple of times to get an 1100 (he really bombed his first attempt).

Some people test well... some don't. Some people need to prepare... some don't. Some people thrive under that pressure... some people fold like a new pair of underwear.

For a long time I have spared this board my amazingly long and drawn-out rant on the weaknesses and impracticalities of standardized testing. I will continue to hold back, but my grip is slipping. Let me just say that using such a broad and static ruler to try and judge the intelligence and capabilities of such a large number of different individuals is the pinnacle of absurdity and futility.

I agree totally!When i used to take test i used to think alot of questions were trick questions,and i would over analize many of them,instead of going with what came to my mind,and go with it.I did`nt pass my my first driving test because the DPS made me nervous,and i tried to be too perfect,instead of just driving like i`m on a sunday drive with positive mental attitude!I bet i worried about that moment with a DPS officer for 2 years before it finally happened!The 2nd time around was a piece of cake!:D

[Drake]

The use of the nickname "Radio" is offensive not only because of it's implications of mental retardation, but also because of it's very strong racist implications. I still remember some of the first threads on Texags to use the name "Radio" when speaking of Vince and I was stunned beyond words because of all the blatant racist rhetoric. It's sad that aggy stooped to such lows, but it is important to remember that most aggy are not guilty of this. The ones that are bring new meaning to the term "pathetic".jtk... you seem rather intelligent and I'm flat *** missing this, so would you please explain why calling Vince Young "Radio" is racist? Is it simply because he is black, or Radio is black, or both? If so, does that mean someone saying Vince Young is the next Michael Vick is also racist?

[LoneRocket]

Okay, but the NFL is administering it to measure something, what do you suppose they are trying to determine with it?
Wonderlic Quarterback, College Score

Drew Henson, Michigan 42

Alex Smith, Utah 40

Brian Griese, Michigan 39

Eli Manning, Mississippi 39

Drew Bledsoe, Washington St. 37

Steve Young, BYU 33

Tom Brady, Michigan 33

Troy Aikman, UCLA 29

Drew Brees, Purdue 28

Byron Leftwich, Marshall 25

Brett Favre, Southern Miss. 22

Chris Simms, Texas 22

Michael Vick, Va. Tech 20

Dan Marino, Pittsburgh 14

Randall Cunningham, UNLV 15

Kordell Stewart, Colorado 12

Jeff George, Illinois 10

Source: Mac Mirabile
http://www.statesman.com/sports/content/sports/stories/longhorns/02/28vincetest.html

I wonder what Tim Couch's score was?

[jtk1519]

jtk... you seem rather intelligent and I'm flat *** missing this, so would you please explain why calling Vince Young "Radio" is racist? Is it simply because he is black, or Radio is black, or both? If so, does that mean someone saying Vince Young is the next Michael Vick is also racist?

It's racist because aggy made it racist and after what I read on their boards a couple of years ago, I believe there to be racist undertones when a number of their fans use it. Put it this way, if the character from the movie Radio had been Asian, Vince would not be called "Radio".

BTW, the comparisons to Michael Vick come because of their playing style and have little to do with their color. If it was just a color thing, Vince would probably be compared to a Warren Moon or Byron Leftwich type QB because they are black, but more closely resemble Vince from a physical standpoint.

[KT2000]

I'd pay cash money to see/hear someone compare Vince to John Elway or Doug Flutie.

As far as the "Radio" stuff, I think it's beyond pathetic any time someone has to tear someone or something else down to build themselves up.

[Drake]

I'd pay cash money to see/hear someone compare Vince to John Elway or Doug Flutie.How much? I can certainly be bought...

[Drake]

As far as the "Radio" stuff, I think it's beyond pathetic any time someone has to tear someone or something else down to build themselves up.Yeah, I guess if any of his detractors on this board were trying to get a QB spot in the NFL, to do that would be sad...

[DirtyHarry01]

2-grand, is there anything VINCE does that you won't defend? I've see hero worship before, but no matter what the post, or its validity, you immediately jump to VINCE's side. If you really believe VINCE is Rhodes Scholar material, then pity you. Mack Brown should be ashamed, not angry. For those of you who claim VINCE wasn't prepared, what type of preparation should he have completed? Give him the test until he scores well on it?