Seriously? AZ Gov signs bill to censor ethnic studies classes.

[Mr. Rod]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100512/ap_on_re_us/us_arizona_ethnic_studies

Wow. I recall taking Hispanic/Latino and African American Study classes before, and never had a teacher preaching about opression. Are they gonna take away Futbol too? :rolleyes:

What do ya'll think, right move or not?

[chhspantherfan]

should we be teaching one group of people to resent another?

[Mr. Rod]

should we be teaching one group of people to resent another?

Absolutley not. If there are problems there are better ways to fix them rather than throwing away oppurtunities for students to learn about themselves. One of my favorite classes was Latino Studies. I didn't walk out of the class at the end of the semester feeling opressed. I felt inspired and learned more about my culture than I knew before I took the class. Resenting another group was not on the lesson plan and was not taught.

[su4c]

prohibits classes that advocate ethnic solidarityDivide and conquer!!

I guess now it's illegal to teach students to be proud to be an American.

[BDB]

i'm sure he's not a bigot at all.

[Mr. Rod]

i'm sure he's not a bigot at all.

She ;)

[mojotrain]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100512/ap_on_re_us/us_arizona_ethnic_studies

Wow. I recall taking Hispanic/Latino and African American Study classes before, and never had a teacher preaching about opression. Are they gonna take away Futbol too? :rolleyes:

What do ya'll think, right move or not?

Pelosi is telling Catholic Preist to discuss goverment in Church. I don't know whats going on. Thats a Church and State deal.:eek:

[JagFan]

Are these elective classes? Do they offer other courses for other races?

This is just my opinion and coming from a middle aged white woman take it for what it is worth.

Cultural (if you want to learn about just one) and religious beliefs should be taught at home. I don't know what they do in Arizona but here my kids learned a whole lot about the different influences and cultures in Texas during the time they were required to take Texas History. They not only learned of the Mexican influence, but the German, Irish, several others and even the Indian cultures and influence that makes up our great state. To me this taught them that yes we all come from different areas and cultures- that is what makes America great.

So no I don't have an issue with her stopping that one class provided it is touched on in other history classes along with other cultural influences on the state of Arizona.

[Maroondog]

Pelosi is telling Catholic Preist to discuss goverment in Church. I don't know whats going on. Thats a Church and State deal.:eek:

Political statements issued in many churches these days. I dislike it, A LOT.

[JagFan]

Political statements issued in many churches these days. I dislike it, A LOT.

:notworthy

[mojotrain]

Political statements issued in many churches these days. I dislike it, A LOT.

Well I don't mind it at all. My shock is in Pelosi calling for it.

[chhspantherfan]

Are these elective classes? Do they offer other courses for other races?

This is just my opinion and coming from a middle aged white woman take it for what it is worth.

Cultural (if you want to learn about just one) and religious beliefs should be taught at home. I don't know what they do in Arizona but here my kids learned a whole lot about the different influences and cultures in Texas during the time they were required to take Texas History. They not only learned of the Mexican influence, but the German, Irish, several others and even the Indian cultures and influence that makes up our great state. To me this taught them that yes we all come from different areas and cultures- that is what makes America great.

So no I don't have an issue with her stopping that one class provided it is touched on in other history classes along with other cultural influences on the state of Arizona.

tell that to all the kids with no parents at home. I agree, but it is a systemic issue. Not that easy. AZ is taking the first steps. WI with Tommy Thompson made some hard decisions a decade ago, this is no different. To all the haters, I am all for immigration. Legal immigration. What to do with all those here illegally? Swear them in as citizens, give them citizens rights, reduce amount of entitlement aid for everyone, and let's do this. Oh, wait.........is that fair?

[JagFan]

tell that to all the kids with no parents at home. I agree, but it is a systemic issue. Not that easy. AZ is taking the first steps. WI with Tommy Thompson made some hard decisions a decade ago, this is no different. To all the haters, I am all for immigration. Legal immigration. What to do with all those here illegally? Swear them in as citizens, give them citizens rights, reduce amount of entitlement aid for everyone, and let's do this. Oh, wait.........is that fair?

I am all for legal immigration and for making it easier to do work visas. The schools should not teach only one cultural class. We have to many cultures in America to do that fairly. That is all I am saying.

[chhspantherfan]

I am all for legal immigration and for making it easier to do work visas. The schools should not teach only one cultural class. We have to many cultures in America to do that fairly. That is all I am saying.

OK, give everyone citizenship that is here right now. Assimilate. Develop "Ellis Island" south and lets move forward. What is the issue?

[JagFan]

OK, give everyone citizenship that is here right now. Assimilate. Develop "Ellis Island" south and lets move forward. What is the issue?

Nooo. there is a difference in people immigrating and becoming citizens and people here on a work visa. I believe that a majority of the illegals that are here just are working and have no desire to be a citizen they just want to work. I am for getting those people in the system and making it an easier process to get work visas for our safety and theirs. If they are not in the system with proper ID then they go home.

As far as people that want to truly immigrate then they have to go through the process legally of doing that just as my friends have done.

I am not for amnesty but I am not for rounding them all up and sending them home. It would cost to much, we have let this go on far to long. So have a 6 month period and get them to register and get the proper Id then if they are caught send them home. We need to fix our system.

[BDB]

OK, give everyone citizenship that is here right now. Assimilate. Develop "Ellis Island" south and lets move forward. What is the issue?

if everyone agreed to this, nothing.

[twcpfan1]

Nooo. there is a difference in people immigrating and becoming citizens and people here on a work visa. I believe that a majority of the illegals that are here just are working and have no desire to be a citizen they just want to work. I am for getting those people in the system and making it an easier process to get work visas for our safety and theirs. If they are not in the system with proper ID then they go home.

As far as people that want to truly immigrate then they have to go through the process legally of doing that just as my friends have done.

I am not for amnesty but I am not for rounding them all up and sending them home. It would cost to much, we have let this go on far to long. So have a 6 month period and get them to register and get the proper Id then if they are caught send them home. We need to fix our system.

You'll find that most if not all illegal aliens (none of them generally have work visas unless you're referring to the ones that overstay) will happily give up their citizenship if they can legally work here as American Citizens. They want it a heck of a lot more than we're willing to give it. The tough part is transition from illegal alien to resident alien. Citizenship is just a formality once you get to resident alien status.

[JagFan]

You'll find that most if not all illegal aliens will happily give up their citizenship if they can legally work here as American Citizens. They want it a heck of a lot more than we're willing to give it. The tough part is transition from illegal alien to resident alien. Citizenship is a formality once you get to resident alien status.

Some. I grew up in El Paso and that was not the case THEN. Now I am sure they would just for the safety of El Paso over Juarez.

Again we need to fix our system and enforce the laws. Rounding them all up is not a realistic action. There are just to many.

One thing I think most agree on- something has gotta be done and soon.

[chhspantherfan]

if everyone agreed to this, nothing.

if you believe that, you are naive`......The issue is what Jagfan alludes to. the number of people here that do not care about America is staggering. Look at the rallies. As one of my favorite mentors says, "You don't know what you don't know."

America needs you El Prez .....will you answer the call?

[JagFan]

if you believe that, you are naive`......The issue is what Jagfan alludes to. the number of people here that do not care about America is staggering. Look at the rallies. As one of my favorite mentors says, "You don't know what you don't know."

America needs you El Prez .....will you answer the call?

It's not that they don't care about America. They come to where the work is and then go home. They are not looking for citizenship they are looking for work.

[BDB]

It's not that they don't care about America. They come to where the work is and then go home. They are not looking for citizenship they are looking for work.

that changes if they bring their families.

unless you want to grant them work visas....which won't help he economy.... but hey there'll be less brown people in the country. that's always a plus.

[JagFan]

that changes if they bring their families.

unless you want to grant them work visas....which won't help he economy.... but hey there'll be less brown people in the country. that's always a plus.

I am speaking mainly from the border towns. I am sure it has cahnged in the last 25 yers. I would not want to live on Juarez either anymore.

[chhspantherfan]

that changes if they bring their families.

unless you want to grant them work visas....which won't help he economy.... but hey there'll be less brown people in the country. that's always a plus.

you forgot your sarcasm icon. :cool:


One of the ethnic groups that Dominguez Garcia referred to in his Dallas rally speech are my ancestors. So in my book, I don't care what color anyone is. I care about enforcing the current law or changing it. NOT sitting on our hands and doing nothing. What respect of law does that teach?

[RedRage00]

Absolutley not. If there are problems there are better ways to fix them rather than throwing away oppurtunities for students to learn about themselves. One of my favorite classes was Latino Studies. I didn't walk out of the class at the end of the semester feeling opressed. I felt inspired and learned more about my culture than I knew before I took the class. Resenting another group was not on the lesson plan and was not taught.

Exactly. This is all BS.

[slorch]

Viva la Raza...

( not an equal-opportunity group, btw)

[stevefoxsc]

i feel better knowing my job wont be stolen tomorrow.

[BackNBlack97]

OK, give everyone citizenship that is here right now. Assimilate. Develop "Ellis Island" south and lets move forward. What is the issue?

The problem with that is that you are rewarding CRIME. They broke the law, ship em back and let them apply to come legally.

[chhspantherfan]

The problem with that is that you are rewarding CRIME. They broke the law, ship em back and let them apply to come legally.

I spoke to this in a later post. I agree that enforcement of existing law is the problem. Not against immigration rather against selective enforcement of law. If it is a law, enforce it or get it changed. If you can't change it, enforce it.

[BackNBlack97]

Exactly. This is all BS.

Did you read the title of their textbook? Occupied America... Yeah that's not gonna breed resentment...

[BackNBlack97]

I spoke to this in a later post. I agree that enforcement of existing law is the problem. Not against immigration rather against selective enforcement of law. If it is a law, enforce it or get it changed. If you can't change it, enforce it.

We need to enforce the law, then, if it needs to be changed, change it. Otherwise you teach that if you don't agree with a law it's ok to break it and eventually someone will change it. Reuters did a poll of American's that I read yesterday (I'll find it and post a link in a little bit) stating that around 60% of American's like Arizona's law and less than 1/4 of them want illegals given citizenship as Obama has proposed.

[cougmantx]

The cats out of the bag folks. There is little doubt the United States will be come a Hispanic country within the next 30-50 years for many reasons.

What I fear is a culture war that turns violent because Hispanics do not care to assimilate. Whether is is admitted or not there are Hispanic groups in this country that are radicalized and feel this country was stolen from them many years ago.

[slcdragonfan]

The cats out of the bag folks. There is little doubt the United States will be come a Hispanic country within the next 30-50 years for many reasons.

What I fear is a culture war that turns violent because Hispanics do not care to assimilate. Whether is is admitted or not there are Hispanic groups in this country that are radicalized and feel this country was stolen from them many years ago.

I am looking forward to the time when my grandchildren and great grandchildren are able to benefit from the laws on the books to help minorities. :p

Specifically, the 8A programs for contracts with the Federal government. I could use several $1 million projects just handed to me without completition about now.

[cougmantx]

I am looking forward to the time when my grandchildren and great grandchildren are able to benefit from the laws on the books to help minorities. :p

Specifically, the 8A programs for contracts with the Federal government. I could use several $1 million projects just handed to me without competition about now.

LOL...yeah, I've thought of that several times! Minority owned businesses that are white...LOL

But wait, aren't they trying to repeal affirmative action laws now...from what I've heard they are not needed anymore...well, there goes our 8A programs...:mad:

I thought the same why when I went to divorce court many years ago. Wish they had passed the equal rights amendment so that men could have equal rights when it came to children in court...everything is a double edged sword, isn't it.

[BackNBlack97]

LOL...yeah, I've thought of that several times! Minority owned businesses that are white...LOL

But wait, aren't they trying to repeal affirmative action laws now...from what I've heard they are not needed anymore...well, there goes our 8A programs...:mad:

I thought the same why when I went to divorce court many years ago. Wish they had passed the equal rights amendment so that men could have equal rights when it came to children in court...everything is a double edged sword, isn't it.

Men generally do have equal rights in court for kids, it's just most men don't fight for them. I have full custody of my 4 year old, but it took a drawn out court battle and proving I was the better parent for her.

[JagFan]

LOL...yeah, I've thought of that several times! Minority owned businesses that are white...LOL

But wait, aren't they trying to repeal affirmative action laws now...from what I've heard they are not needed anymore...well, there goes our 8A programs...:mad:

I thought the same why when I went to divorce court many years ago. Wish they had passed the equal rights amendment so that men could have equal rights when it came to children in court...everything is a double edged sword, isn't it.

My mother-in-law is a judge in family court and she was the first to send a nonchildsupporting (15 years ago) paying dad to jail. She then sent a woman who had not paid their child support to jail. Times are changing in that dads are getting an equal look when it comes to divorce and child custody, but it has been a slow go of it.

[cougmantx]

Men generally do have equal rights in court for kids, it's just most men don't fight for them. I have full custody of my 4 year old, but it took a drawn out court battle and proving I was the better parent for her.

Yeah, the changed the law after my divorce. Prior to that the only right a man had was to pay child support and get his kids when the judge said. From what I understand they now start out from the point of joint custody and work from there which is much better...anyway, mine all came to live with me when they hit 12 and are adults now so that part of my life is done.

[BackNBlack97]

Yeah, the changed the law after my divorce. Prior to that the only right a man had was to pay child support and get his kids when the judge said. From what I understand they now start out from the point of joint custody and work from there which is much better...anyway, mine all came to live with me when they hit 12 and are adults now so that part of my life is done.

Ahh... I'm a youngster so I didn't know the laws had changed. When my parents divorced (I was an adult, but I have younger siblings) it was in the late 90s, but my dad didn't push for custody, and that's the only other brush with child custody I've ever dealt with. It's still not easy for dads to win custody but it isn't terribly unequal now. A large number of dads I know who have been through it don't care though, don't ask for anything, and just pay child support (or skip out on it unfortunately) and rarely even see their kids after the custody hearings are over.

[Firebird]

Ethnic studies classes virtually always arise as a result of a prior existing deficiency in the curriculum. Often for years in places where certain ethnic groups play a huge role in the history, culture, and development of the locality (Tuscon would qualify), those same ethnic groups have been virtually ignored or at best given token acknowledgement in standard texts. Often the specific CONTENT of ethnic studies classes represents a swing of the pendulum too far in the opposite direction, but the existence of the class itself is only an attempt to introduce some balance and accuracy in the curriculum. The state legislature would be better served by attempting to temper specific objectionable or possibly disruptive CONTENT of those classes, rather than taking a machete to anything that isn't "approved history/culture/literature." As it stands, it's clear what the bill is about, and it isn't about promoting unity. The exact opposite, in fact, it's a big middle finger to a certain group of people.

Attempts to "manage" the dissemination of information and knowledge and instruction from the central government, and an insistence on only "approved" topics or perspectives is a classically authoritarian tacitc. I wonder how many tea partiers who call Obama a "statist" or "Nazi" or "authoritarian" approve of this intervention into localized, community control and direction of schools and this authoritarian attempt to present only "state approved" classes. Within the bounds of reason, I support as much local control of schools as possible, and communities should be able to decide whether or not a topic is beneficial for their own children.

I would also imagine virtually all in favor of this bill also consider themselves opposed to "PC" or "political correctness" in schools and beyond. Ironically, this is a classic example of an attempt to make schools "politically correct", it's just a different form of "correctness" that's being pushed. It's unquestionably state intervention to alter curriculum and instruction in an attempt to bolster "correct" politics, for political means. So if you like the bill, that's fine, but just remember that "PC schools" are not a synonym for "liberal schools." It is a synonym for "schools where anything that does not align with the approved, endorsed political ideology of ANY group is not allowed." This is the exact same behavior and mindset that motivates liberals to cut "dead white guys" from schools.

[mad_fan]

The cats out of the bag folks. There is little doubt the United States will be come a Hispanic country within the next 30-50 years for many reasons.

They'll stop multiplying as fast when GoOwls stops delivering the welfare checks...

[chhspantherfan]

Ethnic studies classes virtually always arise as a result of a prior existing deficiency in the curriculum. Often for years in places where certain ethnic groups play a huge role in the history, culture, and development of the locality (Tuscon would qualify), those same ethnic groups have been virtually ignored or at best given token acknowledgement in standard texts. Often the specific CONTENT of ethnic studies classes represents a swing of the pendulum too far in the opposite direction, but the existence of the class itself is only an attempt to introduce some balance and accuracy in the curriculum. The state legislature would be better served by attempting to temper specific objectionable or possibly disruptive CONTENT of those classes, rather than taking a machete to anything that isn't "approved history/culture/literature." As it stands, it's clear what the bill is about, and it isn't about promoting unity. The exact opposite, in fact, it's a big middle finger to a certain group of people.

Attempts to "manage" the dissemination of information and knowledge and instruction from the central government, and an insistence on only "approved" topics or perspectives is a classically authoritarian tacitc. I wonder how many tea partiers who call Obama a "statist" or "Nazi" or "authoritarian" approve of this intervention into localized, community control and direction of schools and this authoritarian attempt to present only "state approved" classes. Within the bounds of reason, I support as much local control of schools as possible, and communities should be able to decide whether or not a topic is beneficial for their own children.

I would also imagine virtually all in favor of this bill also consider themselves opposed to "PC" or "political correctness" in schools and beyond. Ironically, this is a classic example of an attempt to make schools "politically correct", it's just a different form of "correctness" that's being pushed. It's unquestionably state intervention to alter curriculum and instruction in an attempt to bolster "correct" politics, for political means. So if you like the bill, that's fine, but just remember that "PC schools" are not a synonym for "liberal schools." It is a synonym for "schools where anything that does not align with the approved, endorsed political ideology of ANY group is not allowed." This is the exact same behavior and mindset that motivates liberals to cut "dead white guys" from schools.

:rolleyes:

[Firebird]

:rolleyes:

Translation: I have no real thoughts of my own, I just have my mind made up already.

[mad_fan]

Translation: I have no real thoughts of my own, I just have my mind made up already.

Another Supreme Court candidate emerges...

[chhspantherfan]

Another Supreme Court candidate emerges...

LOL as i spit my drink on the keyboard:rofl::rofl::heli:

[drgnbkr]

Another Supreme Court candidate emerges...

Do you play softball?:D

[mad_fan]

Do you play softball?:D

All my balls are hard...