Well, Black or White?

[smw358]

Interesting article regarding Obama's census choice....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/28/AR2010042804156.html?wpisrc=nl_opinions

[slorch]

He was born in Kenya...he marked the appropriate box. right?

[RedRage00]

I'm Mexican American/White, and I consider myself Mexican American. On every form I have ever filled out I check Latino/Hispanic.

When will forms just have "American" on them? I have no relatives in Mexico lol

[slorch]

When will forms just have "American" on them?

when people stop using ethnicity to measure how "equal" they're being treated.

[smw358]

I'm Mexican American/White, and I consider myself Mexican American. On every form I have ever filled out I check Latino/Hispanic.

When will forms just have "American" on them? I have no relatives in Mexico lol

I agree with this. If you are here and a citizen you are and American....period!

[mad_fan]

I'm very very alabaster...but you can call me pasty white...

[JagFan]

I'm Mexican American/White, and I consider myself Mexican American. On every form I have ever filled out I check Latino/Hispanic.

When will forms just have "American" on them? I have no relatives in Mexico lol

:notworthy I think race and gender should be taken off of all applications/forms everywhere.

[Firebird]

tl;dnr

[chhspantherfan]

I'm Mexican American/White, and I consider myself Mexican American. On every form I have ever filled out I check Latino/Hispanic.

When will forms just have "American" on them? I have no relatives in Mexico lol


she speaks to this in the article.

Question to you, why would you not indicate your real ethnicity when filling out forms? Is there a benefit to doing it the way that you do?

[SV61]

I'm Mexican American/White, and I consider myself Mexican American. On every form I have ever filled out I check Latino/Hispanic.

When will forms just have "American" on them? I have no relatives in Mexico lol

when people stop using ethnicity to measure how "equal" they're being treated.

I agree with this. If you are here and a citizen you are and American....period!

:notworthy I think race and gender should be taken off of all applications/forms everywhere.

Then people won't know who the minority is.

Know, what? When I am on the SW side of San Antonio, I'M the minority. On the Northwest side of San Antonio? I'm NOT the minority. When I am at the inlaws, I'm the minority. I am okay with any and all of these.

I can't agree more with people wanting this information not documented. That's why I didn't do that part of the census.

Ooops. My census form is STILL on my desk.

Butterfingers.

And btw, just an observation, if my grandparents were from France, It is my opinion, that I am not French American. It is my opinion that I am American French. After all, I am an American first, right?

I know, too logical. Too simplistic.

[SV61]

she speaks to this in the article.

Question to you, why would you not indicate your real ethnicity when filling out forms? Is there a benefit to doing it the way that you do?

Sounds like he did fill it out right. In this years' census, Hispanic is not a race selection. You are asked if you are Hispanic as one question. From there, you are asked to select your race. White, Black, Native American, etc.

[chhspantherfan]

Sounds like he did fill it out right. In this years' census, Hispanic is not a race selection. You are asked if you are Hispanic as one question. From there, you are asked to select your race. White, Black, Native American, etc.

i have already sent mine back, so I don't have it in front of me. Doesn't it have a race option as "White, non Hispanic" or is it just "White" ?

[SV61]

i have already sent mine back, so I don't have it in front of me. Doesn't it have a race option as "White, non Hispanic" or is it just "White" ?

I have seen that in previous surveys.

However this time around, question 9 of the Census has these choices:

White, Black, American Indian or Alaska Native, Asian Indian, Japanese, Native Hawaiian, Chinese, Korean, Guamanain or Chamorro, Filipino, Vietmanese, Somoan, Other Asian (print race below), and Other Pacific Islander (print race below).

SOMEWHAT confusing when it comes to documenting my son. Is he Hispanic?
While his mother is, I am not. Actually, is his mother really hispanic? If being born in Mexico makes you hispanic then she is. IF having Grandparents from France makes you non-hispanic, then she isn't.

So, again, what is my son?

Does anyone else see the incredible waste of time here, trying to see what race someone belongs to???

[JMSFan]

My census form is still on our kitchen table.

They can kiss my a.$.$.

[cougmantx]

Two of my kids are White/Hispanic. For many years they identified as White. Now the identify as Hispanic because in many college settings it would have been more benifical to them. To my and their way of thinking, it shouldn't matter.

[smw358]

My census form is still on our kitchen table.

They can kiss my a.$.$.


:laugh

[stevefoxsc]

i consider my self American before anything, but I'm a triple threat white,black, and Mexican.

[SWMHebron]

she speaks to this in the article.

Question to you, why would you not indicate your real ethnicity when filling out forms? Is there a benefit to doing it the way that you do?

They didn't give me the option to check Moravian/Czech/English.

[CoveMom]

My census form is still on our kitchen table.

They can kiss my a.$.$.

When they knock on the door give them that option.


:rolleyes:

[E-Vol-ution]

lol....I can pass a DNA test as a member of RJ Reynolds family.
But since those folks would never invite me to the family reunion and I was quite proud of my 3.5 inch afro in high school, I check Black.
I looked for the "American" box and didn't see it.

[BDB]

They didn't give me the option to check Moravian/Czech/English.

so caucasian?

[SV61]

so caucasian?

No such option.

Mixes of that variety, fall into the "white" column, I reckon.

[BDB]

No such option.

Mixes of that variety, fall into the "white" column, I reckon.

they got rid of caucasian? that's funny.

ok...so white?

[HUM398]

I'm Mexican American/White, and I consider myself Mexican American. On every form I have ever filled out I check Latino/Hispanic.

When will forms just have "American" on them? I have no relatives in Mexico lol

I did not answer the Race question my form....and instead just filled in other and put in "American".

Screw the Government and their attempt to Categorize me.

[HUM398]

they got rid of caucasian? that's funny.

ok...so white?

Im tired of race.


Who cares....

[yankee]

my census form is still on our kitchen table.

They can kiss my a.$.$.

we can't move forward, until you mail it back!!!!!1

[slcdragonfan]

I have been pleading for a Norwegian-American checkbox for years. I want me some of that 8A money. If you are classified as an 8A firm (minority) you can get contracts for up to $1 million WITHOUT BID last time I checked. Pretty sweet. I think Norwegian-Americans are a smaller percent of the population than either Latino, Indian, black, or Asian, all of whom qualify. Native American as well

Also beneficial when it comes to consideration for schollies for your kids at school.

My campaign is not getting the attention I need though. Donations accepted, I will start a PAC real soon now.

And yes, mad_fan, N-A's tend to be pasty white. :)
I'm more an unhealthy gray.

[BDB]

Im tired of race.


Who cares....

demographics. it's the same with seeing the age of people in an area, or the income of people in an area.

[SV61]

we can't move forward, until you mail it back!!!!!1

I sent mine in.

It must have gotten lost in the Mail.

;)

[yankee]

I sent mine in.

It must have gotten lost in the Mail.

;)

ha.

i filled out two, one at my permanent home in southlake and one in my apartment at college. so now there's 2 yankees running around right now so i can probably expect some government agent to stop by eventually.

[SV61]

ha.

i filled out two, one at my permanent home in southlake and one in my apartment at college. so now there's 2 yankees running around right now so i can probably expect some government agent to stop by eventually.

Lol.

Yes, when you see a big black van, full of guys in cheap suits, head for the hills.

[slcdragonfan]

Lol.

Yes, when you see a big black van, full of guys in cheap suits, head for the hills...

...and be sure to have your immigration card/legal papers with you. I recommend Arizona.

[HUM398]

demographics. it's the same with seeing the age of people in an area, or the income of people in an area.

I don't care about demographics of an area....Age and income is all i am concerned about as far as Marketing goes.

[BDB]

I don't care about demographics of an area....Age and income is all i am concerned about as far as Marketing goes.

cool story, bro.

[HUM398]

cool story, bro.

you are awesome.

[RedRage00]

I don't care about demographics of an area....Age and income is all i am concerned about as far as Marketing goes.

You wouldn't have that job very long. :)

[BDB]

you are awesome.

thank you :). it's because i understand this.

You wouldn't have that job very long. :)

[chhspantherfan]

Two of my kids are White/Hispanic. For many years they identified as White. Now the identify as Hispanic because in many college settings it would have been more benifical to them. To my and their way of thinking, it shouldn't matter.

If you and they reallly think that way, why would they look for the benefit?

[ktCarl]

He's a Klondike Bar!! Or an Oreo! Or a Panda Bear! :D

[HUM398]

You wouldn't have that job very long. :)

You do realize i run a Small Marketing firm don't you?

[RedRage00]

You do realize i run a Small Marketing firm don't you?

Maybe that's why it's "small" ;)

I do know that major companies know how to market to the demographics of certain areas. Try going to an HEB in south San Antonio and tell me if it will be the same as one in north San Antonio....or the HEB in Port Lavaca that has a huge selection dedicated for the large population of Asians in PL.

Wouldn't you think they need more info than age and income to know all that?

[chhspantherfan]

the beauty of small business is that you have no boss. If Hum wants a small firm,that is his right. Get off the gas. Of course, some of you have been inhaling so long that you wouldnt recognize fresh air.

[slorch]

i consider my self American before anything, but I'm a triple threat white,black, and Mexican.

didn't play the sexually challenged card. I'm impressed...

[slorch]

demographics. it's the same with seeing the age of people in an area, or the income of people in an area.

no it isn't. skin doesn't matter, except to those that want it to.

[E-Vol-ution]

no it isn't. skin doesn't matter, except to those that want it to.

May not be PC....but sometimes it's a win win using ethnicity in demographics.

I hired a sharp Mexican kid in sales because I had a very large Mexican customer base.............it was big for him because he got a chance to utilize his skills and make great money, it was great for the customers because they saw some representation and a guy that could discuss some topics with them I couldn't........and it was great for me because I made nice money and felt good about breaking somebody off in a direction where opportunity was rare.

I cater to my customers...........

[BDB]

no it isn't. skin doesn't matter, except to those that want it to.

uuuuuuuh..... if i open a convenience store on the north side and southwest of san antonio i'm gonna fill one store up with jarritos and the other with vitamin water.

which will i be filling with jarritos and which will i be filling with vitamin water?

[Firebird]

It's good that someone took the time to write an editorial about this. It's important. People need to read about this. We need to concentrate on the stuff that matters, like census responses.

[Favpack]

It's good that someone took the time to write an editorial about this. It's important. People need to read about this. We need to concentrate on the stuff that matters, like census responses.

I turned mine in....twice.

[HUM398]

Maybe that's why it's "small" ;)

I do know that major companies know how to market to the demographics of certain areas. Try going to an HEB in south San Antonio and tell me if it will be the same as one in north San Antonio....or the HEB in Port Lavaca that has a huge selection dedicated for the large population of Asians in PL.

Wouldn't you think they need more info than age and income to know all that?

It's small by choice, and not by success. We are a rather young firm, but we are very thorough.


HEB doesn't build stores with demographics in mine, they only build stores according to three general facets.

1. Population large enough to support a Store (to meet all finical and profit goals)
2. Median House-hold income for their target area
3. Age of the consumer.

Generally speaking the catering to the cultural identity of the area comes afterward. It has to be measured in cost-efficiency, what will it cost them to cater to this community....remember the decision to build has pretty much already been made...the population can support an HEB, the income level is high enough in accordance to population, and the age is neither too young nor too old to be rendered ineffective in generating business. their is one other demographically significant study that they consider....crime.
If HEB has determined that all these facets will be met they then go and determine what they need to do to remain competitive. The larger the city the more likely they are going to try and diversify....because it turns into a numbers game. "How many people can i take from store B, and how?"

Area's like Houston have seen a major turn in focusing on the Latino market because their are so many people and stores....in my area alone (7 miles in each direction using the City of Humble as the center point) we have 4 walmarts, 1 neighborhood walmart, 5 Krogers, 2 Randalls, 2 HEB's and one on the way, and a Sam's Club. are 13-14% hispanic community (the entire Lake Houston area ) matter at that point....and marketing and catering to them without scaring off the majority of the consumers is essential.

Id be lying if i told you that it isn't considered at some point, but in my business dealing i try to avoid it....why? because these area's that i am projecting for don't meet the Age, Income, population....they aren't worth my time...because my client will fail.

[GoOwls]

I know and have known a large number of multi-racial people in my lifetime, mostly due to my job.

To this date, I do not know of one single person who is half white and half "fill in the blank" who uses white as their race.....one simple reason...there's no money in being white.

Just keeping it real, as usual.

[smw358]

I know and have known a large number of multi-racial people in my lifetime, mostly due to my job.

To this date, I do not know of one single person who is half white and half "fill in the blank" who uses white as their race.....one simple reason...there's no money in being white.

Just keeping it real, as usual.


Exactly......which is what the article was about in my opinion. It was not about the census. It was about a person saying one thing and doing another. I think Charles Krauthammer on Fox news said the same thing. Watch what Obama does....not what he says. He is a chameleon. If it were profitable and he would get more votes he would check pink if it serves his purpose. I liked it better when Obama was a mutt. ( his own words. )

[slorch]

May not be PC....but sometimes it's a win win using ethnicity in demographics.

I hired a sharp Mexican kid in sales because I had a very large Mexican customer base.............it was big for him because he got a chance to utilize his skills and make great money, it was great for the customers because they saw some representation and a guy that could discuss some topics with them I couldn't........and it was great for me because I made nice money and felt good about breaking somebody off in a direction where opportunity was rare.

I cater to my customers...........

You hired the best candidate, right? You said he was a sharp kid. If he was a moron, customers wouldn't be happy because he was a brown idiot.

[slorch]

uuuuuuuh..... if i open a convenience store on the north side and southwest of san antonio i'm gonna fill one store up with jarritos and the other with vitamin water.

which will i be filling with jarritos and which will i be filling with vitamin water?

apples and oranges my friend.

Of course you're going to stock the products that sell better for certain locations.

Go to Montana and try to find some Zatarains crab boil...

My point is that skin only matters to those that are keeping score IMO, many of those keeping score never want it to be tied, as they in fact fan the flames of disparity.

If I own those two stores, I'm hiring the best staff possible to make each of those locations successful.

[E-Vol-ution]

You hired the best candidate, right? You said he was a sharp kid. If he was a moron, customers wouldn't be happy because he was a brown idiot.

I hired the best candidate......but his ethnicity was a desired factor.
Any other candidiate would have not just had to be fluent in spanish but also be able to relate and communicate beyond language alone.

I'll give an example where ethnicity was not a factor but may have made a difference.
In the old projects I grew up in there was exactly two white familiies. (they were down automatic, we grew up together).
Any white person (or black for that matter) would have had difficulty in my area if he was not from there.
The insurance guy was White (great youth coach too, but on the other side of town).
For over twenty years he could come and go as he pleased..................
When he retired he sent one of his sons to replace him.
While the kid was a decent guy, he was not welcome there and as a result feared being in the area.
The father ended up hiring a black guy from the area to replace his son............perhaps it would have been different if the son accompanied his Dad on his many visits during those years.
Perhaps not.

[mad_fan]

I turned mine in....twice.

I included the dog...she's blonde...and has received a credit card application in the mail...

[slorch]

I hired the best candidate......but his ethnicity was a desired factor.
Any other candidiate would have not just had to be fluent in spanish but also be able to relate and communicate beyond language alone.

so it was a cultural move, not because of his ethnicity, right?

I don't think you hired him because of "ethnicity." You hired him because of what he brought to the table, and that included his intelligence and communication skills.

Again, if he was a moron, being brown wouldn't help him.

just so you know, if he was hired based on ethnicity, it is discrimination.

[smw358]

I included the dog...she's blonde...and has received a credit card application in the mail...

Pretty much what this article says.....:)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/30/AR2010043001862.html

[E-Vol-ution]

so it was a cultural move, not because of his ethnicity, right?

I don't think you hired him because of "ethnicity." You hired him because of what he brought to the table, and that included his intelligence and communication skills.

Again, if he was a moron, being brown wouldn't help him.

just so you know, if he was hired based on ethnicity, it is discrimination.

I knew you were headed there......there are enough intangibles involved that I could prove otherwise.
Of course I would take a fluent people person over a moron with only pigmentation as a prop.

[slorch]

I hired the best candidate......but his ethnicity was a desired factor.
Any other candidiate would have not just had to be fluent in spanish but also be able to relate and communicate beyond language alone.

I'll give an example where ethnicity was not a factor but may have made a difference.
In the old projects I grew up in there was exactly two white familiies. (they were down automatic, we grew up together).
Any white person (or black for that matter) would have had difficulty in my area if he was not from there.
The insurance guy was White (great youth coach too, but on the other side of town).
For over twenty years he could come and go as he pleased..................
When he retired he sent one of his sons to replace him.
While the kid was a decent guy, he was not welcome there and as a result feared being in the area.
The father ended up hiring a black guy from the area to replace his son............perhaps it would have been different if the son accompanied his Dad on his many visits during those years.
Perhaps not.

So you're saying political correctness can be legislated, but it takes a change of heart/ acceptance to actually make a true difference?

I cannot disagree with that at all.

I am saying there's a ton of folks that want no part of accepting others, even those that supposedly support the PC agenda.

[slorch]

I knew you were headed there......there are enough intangibles involved that I could prove otherwise.
Of course I would take a fluent people person over a moron with only pigmentation as a prop.

I did say IF...

Personally, i don't think our outlooks are that different. We just say it differently.

I am just extremely skeptical of the PC movement and whether it is actually beneficial to those, whose cause, it supposedly promotes.

[E-Vol-ution]

So you're saying political correctness can be legislated, but it takes a change of heart/ acceptance to actually make a true difference?

I cannot disagree with that at all.

I am saying there's a ton of folks that want no part of accepting others, even those that supposedly support the PC agenda.

I acknowledged making a statement that may be deemed as not being PC.
Diversity is something I embrace because no single breathing ethnic group corners the market on being right or wrong in anything.
Legislation is a dreaded arena (and necessity at times) because of our own continued pattern of refusing to do the right thing.
It's not bigoted to notice a hue at first sight........but to remain closed to that person's character or integrity blocks one's own enhancement primarily. Some folks just won't get it.

[E-Vol-ution]

I did say IF...

Personally, i don't think our outlooks are that different. We just say it differently.

I am just extremely skeptical of the PC movement and whether it is actually beneficial to those, whose cause, it supposedly promotes.

Agreed.........I feel the same way about many calling themselves a moral majority also.:notworthy

[slorch]

I acknowledged making a statement that may be deemed as not being PC.
Diversity is something I embrace because no single breathing ethnic group corners the market on being right or wrong in anything.
Legislation is a dreaded arena (and necessity at times) because of our own continued pattern of refusing to do the right thing.
It's not bigoted to notice a hue at first sight........but to remain closed to that person's character or integrity blocks one's own enhancement primarily. Some folks just won't get it.

agreed.

Good stuff there. I struggle tremendously with the "legislation" of acceptance though, and whether it truly accomplishes its goal. Sure numbers can happen( quota,) but are perceptions truly changed?

[slorch]

nm

[E-Vol-ution]

agreed.

Good stuff there. I struggle tremendously with the "legislation" of acceptance though, and whether it truly accomplishes its goal. Sure numbers can happen( quota,) but are perceptions truly changed?

I truly believe that only personal interaction or hearing a consistent point of view from one's child or loved one is the only way to change a perception. The only other way I can think of is God (if you are a believer).

[slorch]

I truly believe that only personal interaction or hearing a consistent point of view from one's child or loved one is the only way to change a perception. The only other way I can think of is God (if you are a believer).

I had terrible influences growing up( and even today) but I concur about God's message on our hearts.

This is a very personal belief for me. My parents, bros, and even g'parents are all racists to a certain degree. Don't get the wrong idea, we're not talking about hating and wanting blacks and Hispanics to die or be killed, but the bias was definitely there. The maddest I can ever remember my Dad's mom getting was when I told her our last name was a "typically black" last name. Holy hell did she go off on me. The N-bomb was dropped with regularity, not as an insult, but IMO, more sadly, as a matter of fact( in their minds.) I have to remind my mom to cleane up her language around our boys- no not curse words, but racial epithets and derogatory phrases. This started when our oldest son was 4-5, and came home from her house and asked us what a "colored boy" was and wanted to know what color he could be. It's funny now, but man that ticked me off.

There are three things in my life that DID influence me towards accepting people. 1) I am adopted. It does give me a unique prospective, but I have known my entire life that I was not related by blood to any of my family, yet they are exactly that, my family. I was given a model, through my very existence, that we should accept people that are different than us and be there for one another. I often challenge my mom and brothers on this very premise. "How could you take me in and raise me as your own, but not be willing to treat a man on the street the same way, just because of the color of their skin?" Then it always turns to " well there's good ones and bad ones..." At that point, I take a deep breath and do a couple of face-palms, and pray for the words to get them to understand.

2) It is my conviction that God taught us to look past petty physical characteristics and realize that we are all created in His image. he loves all of us. We should too. Jesus heavily emphasized loving each other. I see racism as an act of direct disobedience to the teachings of Christ. This is a big issue I have with many so-called Christians.

3) If not me, then who? I ask myself this question about stuff constantly. When it comes to problems in life, I refuse to be a victim. If something needs to be done about it, it has to start with me. I take it as a personal challenge to try and treat people right. If I'm not doing it, then I am part of the problem.

I don't know how I turned out so differently from my mom and bros, but I most definitely am. I couldn't nail it down to one event or anything that caused an epiphany in my heart, but it is certainly different from the examples I had growing up, at least verbally. Like I said, I had models of acceptance, I'm just the one that translated it to race.

Probably TMI in here, but I love discussing this stuff. I always hope the dialogue helps drive understanding.

[E-Vol-ution]

I had terrible influences growing up( and even today) but I concur about God's message on our hearts.

This is a very personal belief for me. My parents, bros, and even g'parents are all racists to a certain degree. Don't get the wrong idea, we're not talking about hating and wanting blacks and Hispanics to die or be killed, but the bias was definitely there. The maddest I can ever remember my Dad's mom getting was when I told her our last name was a "typically black" last name. Holy hell did she go off on me. The N-bomb was dropped with regularity, not as an insult, but IMO, more sadly, as a matter of fact( in their minds.) I have to remind my mom to cleane up her language around our boys- no not curse words, but racial epithets and derogatory phrases. This started when our oldest son was 4-5, and came home from her house and asked us what a "colored boy" was and wanted to know what color he could be. It's funny now, but man that ticked me off.

There are three things in my life that DID influence me towards accepting people. 1) I am adopted. It does give me a unique prospective, but I have known my entire life that I was not related by blood to any of my family, yet they are exactly that, my family. I was given a model, through my very existence, that we should accept people that are different than us and be there for one another. I often challenge my mom and brothers on this very premise. "How could you take me in and raise me as your own, but not be willing to treat a man on the street the same way, just because of the color of their skin?" Then it always turns to " well there's good ones and bad ones..." At that point, I take a deep breath and do a couple of face-palms, and pray for the words to get them to understand.

2) It is my conviction that God taught us to look past petty physical characteristics and realize that we are all created in His image. he loves all of us. We should too. Jesus heavily emphasized loving each other. I see racism as an act of direct disobedience to the teachings of Christ. This is a big issue I have with many so-called Christians.

3) If not me, then who? I ask myself this question about stuff constantly. When it comes to problems in life, I refuse to be a victim. If something needs to be done about it, it has to start with me. I take it as a personal challenge to try and treat people right. If I'm not doing it, then I am part of the problem.

I don't know how I turned out so differently from my mom and bros, but I most definitely am. I couldn't nail it down to one event or anything that caused an epiphany in my heart, but it is certainly different from the examples I had growing up, at least verbally. Like I said, I had models of acceptance, I'm just the one that translated it to race.

Probably TMI in here, but I love discussing this stuff. I always hope the dialogue helps drive understanding.

:notworthy:notworthy
My direct area I grew up in was very segregated; but sports, great schools and my actual town (Freeport) were a melting pot.
We were all rivals in youth leagues and a force when combined by high school.
Heck....I even have a "Jewish" mother back in NY.:D

Don't get it twisted....as they say.
I have family members and people I'm acquainted with that could put Archie Bunker to shame..............I've never been with that.