Utah And Colorado to the Pac-10 is a Done Deal?

[F18mustang]

http://www.mwcconnection.com/2010/4/20/1432640/utah-and-colorado-to-the-pac-10-is

http://www.theboxset.com/images/reviewcaptures/612capture_tombstone03.jpg

[Point Made...]

So who will take the spot in the Big XII?

Anyone from the old Southwest Conference? Arkansas, TCU, Houston or Rice?...

[Favpack]

Good riddance to the Buffs. B11 stating they may end up with 16 teams. B12 is gonna need to re-load with TCU, Boise St., etc.

[Trojanalum693]

Then OU can move into the north division and the Big XII can have one of its greatest rivalries again every year. OU vs. Nebraska.

[etizzle]

I'd love to see a school like Arkansas in the Big 12. Great tradition, great fans, and great rivalries rekindles. TCU not so much. While they may have a good team, the fans are just not there and I see them moving in as a financial disaster.

[BDB]

Then OU can move into the north division and the Big XII can have one of its greatest rivalries again every year. OU vs. Nebraska.

red river rivalry?

[Favpack]

red river rivalry?

nawww - time travel to 1971.

[Trojanalum693]

Then OU can move into the north division and the Big XII can have one of its greatest rivalries again every year. OU vs. Nebraska.

red river rivalry?

I said one of its greatest not greatest. The game of OU vs. Nebraska was almost always the deciding game for the Big8 championship before the formation of the BigXII. The game of the century was OU vs Nebraska.

Many analyists like Mark May have said one of the only things that the Big XII doesn't do well is find a way for OU and Nebraska to play every year.

The Red River Shootout happened every year before the formation of the Big XII and still could be played at the same time every year just take away one of the nonconference opponents for OU and have them play Nebraska in week 12 like they always used to before the Big XII formed.

[BDB]

i think tulsa would be a replacement.... not a good one... but a replacement.

[Trojanalum693]

i think tulsa would be a replacement.... not a good one... but a replacement.


It would be nice if we could steal Iowa away from the Big X but I don't see that happening.

Keep in mind we are losing a team out of the Big XII North Division (Colorado) according to this thread so a replacement team needs to be in the north.

[F18mustang]

Colorado State

[BDB]

It would be nice if we could steal Iowa away from the Big X but I don't see that happening.

Keep in mind we are losing a team out of the Big XII North Division (Colorado) according to this thread so a replacement team needs to be in the north.

tulsa is technically is about as far north in oklahoma as OSU. wouldn't be that much of a stretch.

colorado state would work, too.

[Trojanalum693]

They'd be an ok replacement(CSU). Better than Tulsa IMO.

[Trojanalum693]

I'm just gonna throw this out there. Maybe the Big XII doesn't replace Colorado when and if they leave and has to end up playing a few seasons with only 11 teams. That would mean no title game and a lot less money.

Thoughts?

[farmerfan]

Why in the world do some of you think Arkansas would leave the SEC to join the Big 12? That makes absoultey zero sense for them to do.

[yankee]

why are these rumors STILL going around? cowherd reported it? that's your first clue that it's probably bull ****.

[F18mustang]

why are these rumors STILL going around? cowherd reported it? that's your first clue that it's probably bull ****.

It is a phenomenon called "The Offseason".

[yankee]

It is a phenomenon called "The Offseason".

that's a ghey excuse.

[BDB]

Why in the world do some of you think Arkansas would leave the SEC to join the Big 12? That makes absoultey zero sense for them to do.

lateral move, imo. they would be in a better spot to win conference championships and recruit in texas more heavily after having to visiting it 4 times per year in football.

[farmerfan]

lateral move, imo. they would be in a better spot to win conference championships and recruit in texas more heavily after having to visiting it 4 times per year in football.

I agree with that buddy. But I am thinking more from a financial aspect. Arkansas already backed by some huge boosters but the deal they have in place with the SEC would sway me to think they would not consider moving.

The natural rivalry aspect makes plenty of sense. Texas and A&M have always been huge rivals and OU and Arky have always been destined to be big rivals. Those schools might be about 4 hours apart max.

[lonny23]

For those that think Colorado State to the Big 12, I think you'd see Air Force before CSU. Air Force spends more money on sports and has more resources at their disposal. For that matter, AF spends more money on sports than Utah does. AF also has more of a fanbase across the country and over 20% of the team each year is from Texas. I just hate to see the unlevel playing field the Falcons would have to deal with considering the size restrictions of being at the Academy.

[chhspantherfan]

I'd love to see a school like Arkansas in the Big 12. Great tradition, great fans, and great rivalries rekindles. TCU not so much. While they may have a good team, the fans are just not there and I see them moving in as a financial disaster.

source? If it is an opinion, then it is an uninformed one.

[pied]

source? If it is an opinion, then it is an uninformed one.

huh?

Adding the Arkansas TV market to the existing Big XII does nothing to help the conference in terms of TV rights, the are where the league is lacking so much.

[slorch]

Moving to the Big XII would not be a lateral move for the Pigs. If they want to play UT, A&M, or OU; they can easily schedule non-con games with them. The advantages of playing in the SEC far outweigh those of the Big XII, from the UA perspective.

[pied]

source? If it is an opinion, then it is an uninformed one.

May have hosed that up, thought you were talking about Arkansas. Reading again I think you were referring to TCU. If that's the case it would be a horrendoulsy poor move to bring in TCU. Two sellouts in four or five years?

In addition why in the world does the Big XII need to add the DFW area? There are way more Texas/a$m/Tech/ou and probably Okie State fans in the area than TCU.

[chhspantherfan]

May have hosed that up, thought you were talking about Arkansas. Reading again I think you were referring to TCU. If that's the case it would be a horrendoulsy poor move to bring in TCU. Two sellouts in four or five years?

In addition why in the world does the Big XII need to add the DFW area? There are way more Texas/a$m/Tech/ou and probably Okie State fans in the area than TCU.

his inference was that TCU's athletic department is a pending disaster. Which is as far from the truth as possible.

As far as the metro alumni, you are correct. However, that is very simple math.

Not everyone is a fan of college sports for the financial impact. just sayin

[pied]

his inference was that TCU's athletic department is a pending disaster. Which is as far from the truth as possible.

As far as the metro alumni, you are correct. However, that is very simple math.

Not everyone is a fan of college sports for the financial impact. just sayin

His statement was:


While they may have a good team, the fans are just not there and I see them moving in as a financial disaster.

I took it as "them moving in", not the "department" was a pending disaster. Could be wrong, my reading comprehension is poor this AM, as I have pointed out.

[chhspantherfan]

His statement was:




I took it as "them moving in", not the "department" was a pending disaster. Could be wrong, my reading comprehension is poor this AM, as I have pointed out.

you are right, i am overly protective of the ressurgence that has taken place on the west side.

[pied]

you are right, i am overly protective of the ressurgence that has taken place on the west side.

Check out the recruiting rankings thread, they are starting to make some noise there as well. They've got a good thing going. I may need to head down to Amon Carter and check out a game. I think they have the right angle. They won't compete against Texas/a$m/ou, on an everyday type basis. Do what they do well, and get better and better where they are. Patterson may have one of the best gigs in D1 right now. If they can land Sims and a couple of more, watch out.

[chhspantherfan]

Check out the recruiting rankings thread, they are starting to make some noise there as well. They've got a good thing going. I may need to head down to Amon Carter and check out a game. I think they have the right angle. They won't compete against Texas/a$m/ou, on an everyday type basis. Do what they do well, and get better and better where they are. Patterson may have one of the best gigs in D1 right now. If they can land Sims and a couple of more, watch out.

MWC auto-bid in 2012?

5- 20 team super conferences?

where is it all headed?

[lonny23]

his inference was that TCU's athletic department is a pending disaster. Which is as far from the truth as possible.

As far as the metro alumni, you are correct. However, that is very simple math.

Not everyone is a fan of college sports for the financial impact. just sayin
TCU does nothing for TV's in the Big 12. I will say TCU has the largest athletic budget of non-BCS teams so they can at least compete some vs. BCS teams.

[slorch]

To Lonny's point, does anyone think when anyone in the Big XII South plays, the metroplex doesn't watch the games?

We don't need TCU to gain that market.

[pied]

MWC auto-bid in 2012?

5- 20 team super conferences?

where is it all headed?

If the playoff guys get their wish, that's my guess. if not, TCU wuold be in a fantastic spot to go to a BCS game every few years, Bowl game every eyar and a perrenial top 25 team. Not a bad position to be in. Most teams in BCS conferences would love to be there.

[pied]

To Lonny's point, does anyone think when anyone in the Big XII South plays, the metroplex doesn't watch the games?

We don't need TCU to gain that market.

I do know that it's been some time since the Metroplex has watched a$m on TV and see them win.

Not sure if the DFW area watches Baylor more than TCU.

[lonny23]

To Lonny's point, does anyone thing when anyone in the Big XII South plays, the metroplex doesn't watch the games?

We don't need TCU to gain that market.
The DMN spends more time on Texas, OU, and A&M than the 3 local teams. I think FWST does a little better job covering TCU compared to the Big 12 teams.

Personally, I think the Big 12 is in a fix. I don't see the SEC teams moving in, nor the Big 10. I think the Pac 10 teams like it like they have right now (More sports than the Big 12 and less money on sports than the Big 12 puts out).

That leaves the ACC and Big East teams. That might be an open door for somebody to move up into a better conference, but it's not an easy fit.

Outside of raiding those 2 conferences, the Big 12 is looking at getting teams that for the most part aren't even in the ballpark of having the money to play in the Big 12 with plenty of schools that won't add to the TV's because of fanbase size and the sheer size of the states they play in. The non-BCS teams are mostly from smaller states or 2nd/3rd fiddle schools in BCS states.

[lonny23]

MWC auto-bid in 2012?

5- 20 team super conferences?

where is it all headed?
100 might be pushing it too much. 80 might not be enough, so I'm thinking 90 and that should account for the non-BCS teams that at least try to be something like a decent team. Most of the Sun Belt and MAC wouldn't make the cut.

[slorch]

I do know that it's been some time since the Metroplex has watched a$m on TV and see them win.

Not sure if the DFW area watches Baylor more than TCU.

Baylor and Okie Lite would obviously be the weaker draw, but they play which other teams in conference play?

[pied]

Baylor and Okie Lite would obviously be the weaker draw, but they play which other teams in conference play?

Kansas
Kansas St
Colorado from the north this year.

[etizzle]

For the record, I meant that TCU in the Big 12 would be a financial disaster. It's just an opinion though.

[chhspantherfan]

For the record, I meant that TCU in the Big 12 would be a financial disaster. It's just an opinion though.

pied straightened me out, but thanks for the post.

and everyone is entitled to an opinion. Well, at least if you don't rock the bcs-buddies boat. :rolleyes:

[chhspantherfan]

To Lonny's point, does anyone think when anyone in the Big XII South plays, the metroplex doesn't watch the games?

We don't need TCU to gain that market.

AAAAhhhhhh, the football elitiists appear again. Who is "we" ? Do you get a cut of the bcs money? or the big12 money?

never mind, you deserve a "good morning and have a nice day"

[slorch]

AAAAhhhhhh, the football elitiists appear again. Who is "we" ? Do you get a cut of the bcs money? or the big12 money?

never mind, you deserve a "good morning and have a nice day"

as in "the Big XII" which my school is part of. Unlike a pro team's fan, I am actually part of Texas Tech, which is a member of the Big XII. Sorry if it was condescending, but the Conference needs no help drawing viewers and fans in the Dallas- Ft Worth area. That is made evident when UT/A&M/ TEch/ and even OU plays there with basically a home field audience. the same can be said for Houston and San Antonio, the other two mega population centers in the state that have no Big XII member schools.

Work with me here...

Hope you have a great day too.

[F18mustang]

I'd be willing to bet that Tech has a bigger alumni base in DFW than TCU does.

[da hawaiian]

If TCU continues to find success, that could change overnight.

Signed: EXBYU current TCU fan. :D

[BDB]

i'd like to see the big twelve push for an SEC state. does louisiana state or memphis have the spending power for a major conference?

[etizzle]

i'd like to see the big twelve push for an SEC state. does louisiana state or memphis have the spending power for a major conference?


Louisiana State=LSU
Do you mean Louisiana Tech or UL?

[BDB]

Louisiana State=LSU
Do you mean Louisiana Tech or UL?

definitely meant tech. i wouldn't think any of the UL's have the budget for the big XII, considering they're all sun-belt teams.

[slorch]

Memphis would have a better market draw than La Tech.

Tulane would be a better draw than both of them.

[BDB]

i would also like memphis more than la tech. tulane would be fine but we already have 1 private university in the league.

[farmerfan]

Memphis would have a better market draw than La Tech.

Tulane would be a better draw than both of them.

Memphis is a bigger city with a larger metro than New Orelans and with Memphis you do not have Knoxville sitting 60 miles away like you do with New Orleans and Baton Rouge.
I wouldnt think Memphis is that strong of an academic instution though and you definitely get that with Tulane

[DrEdward]

The DMN spends more time on Texas, OU, and A&M than the 3 local teams. I think FWST does a little better job covering TCU compared to the Big 12 teams.

Personally, I think the Big 12 is in a fix. I don't see the SEC teams moving in, nor the Big 10. I think the Pac 10 teams like it like they have right now (More sports than the Big 12 and less money on sports than the Big 12 puts out).

That leaves the ACC and Big East teams. That might be an open door for somebody to move up into a better conference, but it's not an easy fit.

Outside of raiding those 2 conferences, the Big 12 is looking at getting teams that for the most part aren't even in the ballpark of having the money to play in the Big 12 with plenty of schools that won't add to the TV's because of fanbase size and the sheer size of the states they play in. The non-BCS teams are mostly from smaller states or 2nd/3rd fiddle schools in BCS states.

For the most part, I think the ACC schools are relatively satisfied where they are. (uVa, of course, thinks they should be in the Ivy League, but that's a different matter.) Boston College is the glaring geographical outlier, but they just left the Big East and with their size, I don't see them moving any time in the near future. If the SEC were to try to expand, the obvious school in the ACC is Florida State. But the SEC also seems pretty happy with their current size as well. That leaves the Big East schools as quite vulnerable.

[TEXREB]

A 25,000- to 35,000-seat on-campus football stadium is in the works at Tulane, and if the funds are secured, the facility will be built on the existing football practice field. Tulane's average paid attendance for home games last season was 25,147 at the Superdome, which has a capacity of around 70,000. Not exactly encouraging. Memphis is averaging 25,795 in the Liberty Bowl that seats around 70,000 also. When Memphis plays Ole Miss or Tennessee in the Liberty Bowl, there are more OM and Vol fans there than Memphis fans.

Memphis and Tulane will ALWAYS take a back seat to Tennessee and LSU. Just don't see them as a fit for the Big XII. JMO.

[lonny23]

Boys and girls,

I think in the end we're going to see the Big 12 break up as we see it now and as we root for it now.

We hear stuff from time to time and there can be smokescreens out there, but I did hear a report of a guy who listened to the UT President speak and also asked him some questions. Supposedly the President said:

1. UT won't go to the Big 10 and I have my doubts they'd go to the SEC because of academics. He doesn't want to fly the low revenue teams to the upper midwest.
2. He said UT wouldn't leave Tech behind and I've read where UT and A&M can't ditch each other without penalty. He also spoke quite a bit about both Tech and Houston who aspire to be Tier 1 schools. I've also heard rumblings that UT and A&M might help with Tech and Houston becoming Tier 1.
3. The President also spoke about a Western alliance.

Saying all that, here's what I think will happen:
1. The Pac-10 wants more teams and they'll expand. Going to 12 won't get them the foothold they want, so they'll go to 16 and get Texas.
2. Since Texas doesn't want to spend crazy travel money, they're not going to the Pac-10 without some regional rivals.
3. If we're going to have 16 teams in the Pac-10, they'll split into 2 divisions of 8 and this will work better than the WAC 16 the last time.
4. I'm voting that the CA, OR, and WA teams make up a division.
5. The AZ schools will be with the newbies and don't forget the AZ schools were the last to enter the Pac-10 in the 70's and also used to be in the same conference with Tech, while ASU used to play Houston quite a bit when both teams were independents. I'm voting on the 4 publics from Texas to the Pac-10 and you can pick whoever you want for the other 2 spots.
6. Colorado will probably be in the Pac-10 and that leaves a spot for Boise, Utah, BYU, AF, or UNLV. AF does the least for TV, but plays the most sports. I think BYU is a better candidate than Utah because of TV and money. Boise is really trying for better facilities and might be a better fit than UNLV.

[TEXREB]

Boys and girls,

I think in the end we're going to see the Big 12 break up as we see it now and as we root for it now.

We hear stuff from time to time and there can be smokescreens out there, but I did hear a report of a guy who listened to the UT President speak and also asked him some questions. Supposedly the President said:

1. UT won't go to the Big 10 and I have my doubts they'd go to the SEC because of academics. He doesn't want to fly the low revenue teams to the upper midwest.
2. He said UT wouldn't leave Tech behind and I've read where UT and A&M can't ditch each other without penalty. He also spoke quite a bit about both Tech and Houston who aspire to be Tier 1 schools. I've also heard rumblings that UT and A&M might help with Tech and Houston becoming Tier 1.
3. The President also spoke about a Western alliance.

Saying all that, here's what I think will happen:
1. The Pac-10 wants more teams and they'll expand. Going to 12 won't get them the foothold they want, so they'll go to 16 and get Texas.
2. Since Texas doesn't want to spend crazy travel money, they're not going to the Pac-10 without some regional rivals.
3. If we're going to have 16 teams in the Pac-10, they'll split into 2 divisions of 8 and this will work better than the WAC 16 the last time.
4. I'm voting that the CA, OR, and WA teams make up a division.
5. The AZ schools will be with the newbies and don't forget the AZ schools were the last to enter the Pac-10 in the 70's and also used to be in the same conference with Tech, while ASU used to play Houston quite a bit when both teams were independents. I'm voting on the 4 publics from Texas to the Pac-10 and you can pick whoever you want for the other 2 spots.
6. Colorado will probably be in the Pac-10 and that leaves a spot for Boise, Utah, BYU, AF, or UNLV. AF does the least for TV, but plays the most sports. I think BYU is a better candidate than Utah because of TV and money. Boise is really trying for better facilities and might be a better fit than UNLV.

Could be a possibility for sure. Seems like I remember Texas flirting a little with the PAC-10 back before the formation of the Big XII or am I imagining that.

[lonny23]

If my Pac-16 prediction comes to fruition, the Big 12 will be weaker, but will still try to siphon off the left-overs in my scenario and also go for TCU. It won't help much, but they'll have to do something. None of the SEC or Big 10 teams will want to team up with a Big 12 that doesn't have the main Texas teams.

As much as we talk about how teams hate other teams, blood is thicker than water and the Texas teams will leave the other states high and dry if given a chance. If for no other reason, the 'horns will want Texas teams in the Pac-16 to "Watch 'em" and try to keep them under control. It might also be the 'horns way to weaken OSU, OU, and Nebraska. Texas doesn't need Baylor or TCU in a Pac-16 because Stanford and USC are already there.

[dragons08]

If my Pac-16 prediction comes to fruition, the Big 12 will be weaker, but will still try to siphon off the left-overs in my scenario and also go for TCU. It won't help much, but they'll have to do something. None of the SEC or Big 10 teams will want to team up with a Big 12 that doesn't have the main Texas teams.

As much as we talk about how teams hate other teams, blood is thicker than water and the Texas teams will leave the other states high and dry if given a chance. If for no other reason, the 'horns will want Texas teams in the Pac-16 to "Watch 'em" and try to keep them under control. It might also be the 'horns way to weaken OSU, OU, and Nebraska. Texas doesn't need Baylor or TCU in a Pac-16 because Stanford and USC are already there.

UT's president said it is working for Tech to become Tier One status..

....but he also said that when out in West Texas giving a speech or something from what I recall hearing about this when it was first on Raider Power a month ago.

I don't think Texas will leave behind Tech and A&M. If Texas goes out of state alone, that could get rid of the "t-shirt" fans, not considerably but in a long time down the road. It also will hurt their recruiting, players want to play where their family can see them. I don't think players will want to go to Texas if half of their games around halfway across the country.

I do like Lonny's Pac-16 thing though. I'd imagine OU would like to come with in that though to keep the recruiting ties with the state of Texas.

[lonny23]

Yeah, it was UT to Pac-10 and maybe Houston and/or A&M to the SEC before the Big 12.

Specific to my talk about sports and how it might help Air Force:

Air Force 27
BYU 19
TCU 18
Utah 18
UNLV 17
Boise St. 17

I've got a nugget that I don't know if any of us already knew. I was counting the number of Big 12 and Pac-10 sports and was suprised that the Big 12 is now up to 23 and the Pac-10 had 22, but the bigger surprise is who the 08-09 wrestling champ was in the Pac-10:

Boise State

ASU, Oregon St., and Stanford are the only members who wrestle, so the Pac-10 has 5 outsiders in the conference for wrestling.

[yankee]

:mad:

[dragons08]

:mad:

What is this non?

[yankee]

What is this non?

this thread. the exact reason why i hate offseason. loony taking it all serious when there's like a .01% chance of what he said happening.

[F18mustang]

Note to self: Make a thread for every college football offseason rumor.

[dragons08]

this thread. the exact reason why i hate offseason. loony taking it all serious when there's like a .01% chance of what he said happening.

You have to admit though, college football is on the verge of a major realignment, or at the very least a minor change.

[yankee]

Note to self: Make a thread for every college football offseason rumor.

yes plz.

[yankee]

You have to admit though, college football is on the verge of a major realignment, or at the very least a minor change.

f14 was starting threads about this stuff months ago. i think it's just a bunch of BS posturing by universities to get $$$.

[lonny23]

this thread. the exact reason why i hate offseason. loony taking it all serious when there's like a .01% chance of what he said happening.
Something is going to happen. The Big 12 will just do like the SWC and fall further and further behind and unless a miracle happens, some teams are going to look for greener pastures.

I think there is a better chance of the Texas teams leaving than making the B12 a lot better population-wise. That's life with the teams from the North. Even Oklahoma has more than the North except Colorado.

[FarmerFootballPlayer]

If Colorado bolts the for the Pac 10 just replace them with the University of Houston. Remember we're not talking about just football, we're talking all sports, and across the board UH is probably better at sports than CU, including the revenue sports of football and men's basketball. UH also gives the Big XII access to the Houston market which, unlike Dallas, isn't just focused on UT and OU. Lastly, academically they are making great strides and can hang with the other Big XII schools.

[slorch]

If Colorado bolts the for the Pac 10 just replace them with the University of Houston. Remember we're not talking about just football, we're talking all sports, and across the board UH is probably better at sports than CU, including the revenue sports of football and men's basketball. UH also gives the Big XII access to the Houston market which, unlike Dallas, isn't just focused on UT and OU. Lastly, academically they are making great strides and can hang with the other Big XII schools.

UT, A&M, and Tech already draw extremely well in H-town.

Try again.

[Firebird]

The Big XII doesn't need to replace the Buffs with anyone who draws less than the Buffs on TV/in the stadium. That means you, TCU/UH. Sorry, play again next time. Between UT, A&M, Tech, OU, and OSU, all the major Texas markets are locked down. Not to say that the TCU/UH programs aren't competitive and good, they just bring almost nothing in terms of revenue or TV sets.

[BDB]

The Big XII doesn't need to replace the Buffs with anyone who draws less than the Buffs on TV/in the stadium. That means you, TCU/UH. Sorry, play again next time. Between UT, A&M, Tech, OU, and OSU, all the major Texas markets are locked down. Not to say that the TCU/UH programs aren't competitive and good, they just bring almost nothing in terms of revenue or TV sets.

exactly. and if they are going to be drawing less, it better be a new area the big xii doesn't have locked down.

tcu, utep, houston, rice, ect. don't meet any of those requirements.

[F18mustang]

exactly. and if they are going to be drawing less, it better be a new area the big xii doesn't have locked down.

tcu, utep, houston, rice, ect. don't meet any of those requirements.

I dunno about UTEP. That town is pretty crazy about their Miners.

[BDB]

I dunno about UTEP. That town is pretty crazy about their Miners.

in retrospect to the nation..... the big xii can overlook el paso.

[Trojanalum693]

I'm just going to throw this out there. UNT to the Big XII.


I know it sounds kind of corny and a horrible decision but UNT is getting a new stadium and they have like the third largest enrollment in the state behind UT and A&M. The basketball program is on the way up. Football program was good under the former coach Darrell Dickey.

Now I will say this I am a student at UNT so I am not crazy. You can see why I would think this.

[Firebird]

I'm just going to throw this out there. UNT to the Big XII.


I know it sounds kind of corny and a horrible decision but UNT is getting a new stadium and they have like the third largest enrollment in the state behind UT and A&M. The basketball program is on the way up. Football program was good under the former coach Darrell Dickey.

Now I will say this I am a student at UNT so I am not crazy. You can see why I would think this.

No. Again, this does NOTHING in terms of TV revenue. UNT right now would be a net money loser. The Big XII doesn't need anymore schools that will be revenue drags.

In all honesty, should the Buffs bolt (and I don't think they will), I would prefer not to replace them. Go to a Big Televen type schedule. Yes, we'd lose the CCG, but we could get back old Big 8 rivalries yearly. And we'd split TV money fewer ways. Prolly be easier to get two conference teams to BCS bowls, too. Really, only a Big Ten or SEC (Iowa, Illinois, Arkansas, LSU) school would be worth replacing CU with, and none of them are leaving.

[chhspantherfan]

AAAAhhhhh, the arrogance of the Big 12. Firebird, it is not about TV sets. Nor is it about a school being "worthy" of approval. Get off the high horse.
Do we need to go thru the Ann Richards/Baylor saga again? :rolleyes:

[slorch]

AAAAhhhhh, the arrogance of the Big 12. Firebird, it is not about TV sets. Nor is it about a school being "worthy" of approval. Get off the high horse.
Do we need to go thru the Ann Richards/Baylor saga again? :rolleyes:

Why do you equate running a business with "arrogance?"

[chhspantherfan]

Why do you equate running a business with "arrogance?"

"Really, only a Big Ten or SEC (Iowa, Illinois, Arkansas, LSU) school would be worth replacing CU with"

not hard to see !!

You say you want the big8 rivalries back in one breath and then back to the money in the next.

[Firebird]

AAAAhhhhh, the arrogance of the Big 12. Firebird, it is not about TV sets. Nor is it about a school being "worthy" of approval. Get off the high horse.
Do we need to go thru the Ann Richards/Baylor saga again? :rolleyes:

Actually, it is. Do you think that UT/A&M/OU/Nebraska/KU (hoops at least)/Mizzou/Tech/OSU are interested in sharing TV revenue with a program that is going to be bringing in far less than they are? Why should these schools want to engage in wealth transfer payments to a school like TCU/UH/UNT? The big schools ALREADY have to carry financial dead weight like Kansas State, Baylor, Iowa State. I'm sorry the reality of big college athletics upsets you. But a lot of schools, even the big ones, are struggling to keep non-revenue sports afloat, they certainly aren't interested in bringing on board a school that isn't going to contribute more than the bottom half of the conference.


From the perspective of the big boys in the athletics game, only a large state school that will open up new markets is worth bringing in. It would help if they had a natural fit to the conference geographically and from a rivalry standpoint. Hence, Iowa, Illinois, Arky, LSU. But none of those schools are going anywhere.

Those schools are what they are. It doesn't have anything to do with how good their teams are, it has to do with how much market share they can bring to a conference.

And no, it won't be an Ann Richards/Baylor saga all over again. It's one thing not to leave behind a school when a block of Texas schools are moving. It's another thing to imagine that TCU/UH/UNT has the clout to force the Big XII to let them in. It was no coincidence who got left behind.

[slorch]

"Really, only a Big Ten or SEC (Iowa, Illinois, Arkansas, LSU) school would be worth replacing CU with"

not hard to see !!

You say you want the big8 rivalries back in one breath and then back to the money in the next.

i said nothing about Big VIII rivalries, nor do I care about them.

TV Markets, geography( to a lesser degree,) education standards. and viability as a competitive sports entitiy in the major sports are what matters

[Firebird]

"Really, only a Big Ten or SEC (Iowa, Illinois, Arkansas, LSU) school would be worth replacing CU with"

not hard to see !!

You say you want the big8 rivalries back in one breath and then back to the money in the next.

Getting an OU/NU game back to a regular schedule would be a nice, national interest game. That's why it would be sort of a consolation prize for losing the Buffs. The ideal would be to replace the Buffs with a Big Ten/SEC school, but that's a pipe dream.

[pied]

Getting an OU/NU game back to a regular schedule would be a nice, national interest game. That's why it would be sort of a consolation prize for losing the Buffs. The ideal would be to replace the Buffs with a Big Ten/SEC school, but that's a pipe dream.

If someone leaves the Big 12, Colorado/etc., I don't see the cnoference gaining anyone of significance. More than likely going the way of Conference USA or the like. A kind of every man for themselves, although I can see some schools pooling together. Texas/a$m may be able to build a pretty strong case for a for instance.

More likely is that a lot of conferences/teams get together for a super league.

[chhspantherfan]

Actually, it is. Do you think that UT/A&M/OU/Nebraska/KU (hoops at least)/Mizzou/Tech/OSU are interested in sharing TV revenue with a program that is going to be bringing in far less than they are? Why should these schools want to engage in wealth transfer payments to a school like TCU/UH/UNT? The big schools ALREADY have to carry financial dead weight like Kansas State, Baylor, Iowa State. I'm sorry the reality of big college athletics upsets you. But a lot of schools, even the big ones, are struggling to keep non-revenue sports afloat, they certainly aren't interested in bringing on board a school that isn't going to contribute more than the bottom half of the conference.


From the perspective of the big boys in the athletics game, only a large state school that will open up new markets is worth bringing in. It would help if they had a natural fit to the conference geographically and from a rivalry standpoint. Hence, Iowa, Illinois, Arky, LSU. But none of those schools are going anywhere.

Those schools are what they are. It doesn't have anything to do with how good their teams are, it has to do with how much market share they can bring to a conference.

And no, it won't be an Ann Richards/Baylor saga all over again. It's one thing not to leave behind a school when a block of Texas schools are moving. It's another thing to imagine that TCU/UH/UNT has the clout to force the Big XII to let them in. It was no coincidence who got left behind.

not upset at the "reality" of college athletics. One of my favorite books is Meat on the Hoof written some 40 years ago. This "reality" is nothing new.

as for the second bolded statement, you got that right!

[dragons08]

AAAAhhhhh, the arrogance of the Big 12. Firebird, it is not about TV sets. Nor is it about a school being "worthy" of approval. Get off the high horse.
Do we need to go thru the Ann Richards/Baylor saga again? :rolleyes:

Actually it is.

Conferences try and set academic standards as well.

Also, conferences are out to make money, why settle for a team that doesn't contribute anything at all in terms of viewership?

You want to go after a bigger slice of the national viewership, so you go after a team that is "out of network" so to speak to gain viewership on a more wide-spread spectrum.

[chhspantherfan]

Actually it is.

Conferences try and set academic standards as well.

Also, conferences are out to make money, why settle for a team that doesn't contribute anything at all in terms of viewership?

You want to go after a bigger slice of the national viewership, so you go after a team that is "out of network" so to speak to gain viewership on a more wide-spread spectrum.

this is why i think the 5-20 team conferences will emerge. The conferences as they stand today are too powerful for indy to control, so the wealth will be distributed thru "super conferences" IMO

[pied]

this is why i think the 5-20 team conferences will emerge. The conferences as they stand today are too powerful for indy to control, so the wealth will be distributed thru "super conferences" IMO

I see it as the opposite. The power bokers want to remain power brokers and will end up forcing out the teams they don't want to share with.

[lonny23]

I see it as the opposite. The power bokers want to remain power brokers and will end up forcing out the teams they don't want to share with.
While I won't deny that the rich want to get richer, they're also smart enough to share with others if it means more money for themselves.

[pied]

While I won't deny that the rich want to get richer, they're also smart enough to share with others if it means more money for themselves.

Agreed. In the Big XII there are money maker and then there is Iowa State. in the SEC there is Vanderbilt. In the Big 10 there is Northwestern. In the PAC 10 there is, I'm not exactly sure.

What I do know is that there is a sweet spot. You can't have a 32 team college uber league, but do you need more than 64? The first 20-30 are easy to identify, maybe 40. After that you it could get interesting.

[chhspantherfan]

Agreed. In the Big XII there are money maker and then there is Iowa State. in the SEC there is Vanderbilt. In the Big 10 there is Northwestern. In the PAC 10 there is, I'm not exactly sure.

What I do know is that there is a sweet spot. You can't have a 32 team college uber league, but do you need more than 64? The first 20-30 are easy to identify, maybe 40. After that you it could get interesting.

is the criteria TV sets?

[pied]

All that said, I think the rich prfer things the way they are. I think Texas would like a bit more, but would prefer to stay in the Big XII. Tweaking the contracts, not an equal sharing of TV/Bowl revenue perhaps. The [roble is you don't want to be left on the outside. If anyone but Iowa State/K State leaves, I think the Big XII is in trouble. You don't want to be caught off guard in that situation.

[pied]

is the criteria TV sets?

That, and brand name. ou doesn't necessarily bring in a ton of TV sets, but they bring in enough and are a college stalwart. Where would Texas Tech fit in, in a conversation like this for instance?

[chhspantherfan]

That, and brand name. ou doesn't necessarily bring in a ton of TV sets, but they bring in enough and are a college stalwart. Where would Texas Tech fit in, in a conversation like this for instance?

i would like to see your top 40

[F18mustang]

That, and brand name. ou doesn't necessarily bring in a ton of TV sets, but they bring in enough and are a college stalwart. Where would Texas Tech fit in, in a conversation like this for instance?

DFW, Western Half of Texas and Eastern New Mexico markets. We have enough fan support to hold our own.

[pied]

i would like to see your top 40

I'll try, but screw it up.

1. Florida
2. Miami
3. Florida State
4. Georgia
5. Georgia Tech
6. North Carolina
7. NC State
8. Va Tech
9. UVa
10. Boston College
11. UConn
12. Rutgers
13. Syracuse
14. Tennessee
15. Kentucky
16. South Carolina
17. LSU
18. Arkansas
19. Ole Miss
20. Alabama
21. Auburn
22. Nebraska
23. Missouri
24. Kansas
25. Colorado
26. Texas
27. ou
28. a$m
29. tOSU
30. Michigan
31. Notre Dame
32. Iowa
33. Wisconsin
34. Purdue
35. Washington
36. USC
37. UCLA
38. Arizona State
39. Oregon
40. Stanford

Ones on ther I'm not 100% ceratin on, UConn, North Carolina or NC State, UVa or Va Tech, Rutgers

Some of these schools will simply go together. Others that would likely be included automatically would be:

41. Cal(with Stanford in SanFrancisco)
42. Clemson (2nd South Carolina School)
43. Arizona (with ASU)
44. Mich State (with Michigan)


In the end I think you'll see almost all the Big 10/SEC/Pac 10. The Big XII would likley be the biggest loser. Strategically North Carolina/NC State is more important than Texas Tech/Baylor/Okie State.

Lots of Texas schools, but do you need them all to get their market share?

[chhspantherfan]

DFW, Western Half of Texas and Eastern New Mexico markets. We have enough fan support to hold our own.

i would assume that he will put y'all on his list.

[pied]

DFW, Western Half of Texas and Eastern New Mexico markets. We have enough fan support to hold our own.

Easier to get Texas/a$m who also have the majority of those markets. Where thye could make a major lay is a filler. Does Texas/a$m/ou want to have to travel many time zones to fill their conf schedule?

[pied]

i would assume that he will put y'all on his list.

Depends on the number. Don't see them as critical team from a population or tradition point of view.

Would excluding Nebraska be a huge issue for he college football fan? Certainly

Would excluding Tech be? Probably not.

Can you capture the market Tech brings in with other schools? Yes

Would those schools go without tech? Probably so.

[Firebird]

I'll try, but screw it up.

1. Florida
2. Miami
3. Florida State
4. Georgia
5. Georgia Tech
6. North Carolina
7. NC State
8. Va Tech
9. UVa
10. Boston College
11. UConn
12. Rutgers
13. Syracuse
14. Tennessee
15. Kentucky
16. South Carolina
17. LSU
18. Arkansas
19. Ole Miss
20. Alabama
21. Auburn
22. Nebraska
23. Missouri
24. Kansas
25. Colorado
26. Texas
27. ou
28. a$m
29. tOSU
30. Michigan
31. Notre Dame
32. Iowa
33. Wisconsin
34. Purdue
35. Washington
36. USC
37. UCLA
38. Arizona State
39. Oregon
40. Stanford

Ones on ther I'm not 100% ceratin on, UConn, North Carolina or NC State, UVa or Va Tech, Rutgers

Some of these schools will simply go together. Others that would likely be included automatically would be:

41. Cal(with Stanford in SanFrancisco)
42. Clemson (2nd South Carolina School)
43. Arizona (with ASU)
44. Mich State (with Michigan)


In the end I think you'll see almost all the Big 10/SEC/Pac 10. The Big XII would likley be the biggest loser. Strategically North Carolina/NC State is more important than Texas Tech/Baylor/Okie State.

Lots of Texas schools, but do you need them all to get their market share?


Here's how I would start:

1. In states that have 2+ state schools in BCS conferences, I would pick the two largest. Usually a "U of State", "State U/State Tech/State A&M). Those with only one "U of State" in a BCS conference would get in automatically:

1. Florida
2. FSU
3. Clemson
4. South Carolina
5. North Carolina
6. NC State
7. Virginia
8. Virginia Tech
9. Maryland
10. Georgia
11. Georgia Tech
12. Tennessee
13. Kentucky
14. Alabama
15. Auburn
16. Ole Miss
17. Miss State
18. LSU
19. Arkie
20. UConn
21. Louisville
22. Pitt
23. Penn State
24. Rutgers
25. WVU
26. tOSU
27. Cincy
28. Iowa
29. Iowa State
30. Nebraska
31. Mizzou
32. Kansas
33. Kansas State
34. Okie
35. Okie State
36. Texas
37. A&M
38. Colorado
39. Indiana
40. Purdue
41. Wisky
42. Minnesota
43. Michigan
44. Michigan State
45. Arizona
46. Arizona State
47. UCLA
48. Cal
49. Oregon
50. Oregon State
51. Wazzou
52. Washington
53. Illinois


Then I would cherry pick some privates/smaller state schools that would add value and/or prestige

54. Notre Dame
55. Miami
56. Southern Cal
57. Stanford
58. Boston College
59. Texas Tech
60. Utah
61. Brigham Young
62. New Mexico
63. Boise
64. Hawai'i

Bam.. 64 teams, huge geographic footprint, plenty of TV sets. I think I have every state with a DIA rep that currently has a IA football team except for Wyoming. Feel free to quibble here. Most years, your BCS qualifers will come from that pool of teams anyway. There are some teams that I would like to get in there, but I am trying to whittle down to a 64 team superleague that would form eight team conferences.

[Trojanalum693]

Actually, it is. Do you think that UT/A&M/OU/Nebraska/KU (hoops at least)/Mizzou/Tech/OSU are interested in sharing TV revenue with a program that is going to be bringing in far less than they are? Why should these schools want to engage in wealth transfer payments to a school like TCU/UH/UNT? The big schools ALREADY have to carry financial dead weight like Kansas State, Baylor, Iowa State. I'm sorry the reality of big college athletics upsets you. But a lot of schools, even the big ones, are struggling to keep non-revenue sports afloat, they certainly aren't interested in bringing on board a school that isn't going to contribute more than the bottom half of the conference.


From the perspective of the big boys in the athletics game, only a large state school that will open up new markets is worth bringing in. It would help if they had a natural fit to the conference geographically and from a rivalry standpoint. Hence, Iowa, Illinois, Arky, LSU. But none of those schools are going anywhere.

Those schools are what they are. It doesn't have anything to do with how good their teams are, it has to do with how much market share they can bring to a conference.

And no, it won't be an Ann Richards/Baylor saga all over again. It's one thing not to leave behind a school when a block of Texas schools are moving. It's another thing to imagine that TCU/UH/UNT has the clout to force the Big XII to let them in. It was no coincidence who got left behind.


UNT is a state school and is in a large market and they have a large enrollment. It is like 36,000 or something like that.

[su4c]

UNT is a state school and is in a large market and they have a large enrollment. It is like 36,000 or something like that.

Keyword there is "new" markets, DFW is locked down already.

[da hawaiian]

DFW is a huge Transient market, I bet there's plenty of room for a TCU or SMU to pick up watchers, especially ex TAMU folks who've dropped off the radar.

TCU picked me up last year

[farmerfan]

UNT is a state school and is in a large market and they have a large enrollment. It is like 36,000 or something like that.

UNT is just fine where they are. They are not ready for the big boys in any sport yet and that includes our best in womens soccer

[Trojanalum693]

UNT is just fine where they are. They are not ready for the big boys in any sport yet and that includes our best in womens soccer


But if they ever want to compete at a higher level they need to get out of the Sun Belt conference.

[farmerfan]

But if they ever want to compete at a higher level they need to get out of the Sun Belt conference.

I see where you are coming from but lets worry about competing in the Sun Belt first then we can start looking elsewhere :)

[Firebird]

UNT is a state school and is in a large market and they have a large enrollment. It is like 36,000 or something like that.

When you can get 36K at a football game, get back to us.

[slorch]

When you can get 36K at a football game, get back to us.

for the season?:D

[Trojanalum693]

When you can get 36K at a football game, get back to us.


We could if the alumni would support the team and not OU or UT.

Maybe when we get that new stadium we will. Though I do not know its capacity.

[farmerfan]

We could if the alumni would support the team and not OU or UT.

Maybe when we get that new stadium we will. Though I do not know its capacity.

Its not just on the alumni. The students too. Heck walk around campus and its nothing but Texas and OU shirts at that place. Student support for athletics at UNT is pretty embarrassing. We do not belong with the big boys nd probably never will. :o

[Trojanalum693]

Its not just on the alumni. The students too. Heck walk around campus and its nothing but Texas and OU shirts at that place. Student support for athletics at UNT is pretty embarrassing. We do not belong with the big boys nd probably never will. :o


Yeah I know. Everyday I see students who have no support for the school and they are wearing something from another school it is kind of sad.

I guess UNT will always be an arts school first before athletics. :(

I will admit I only made it to two football games this past year and no basketball games. I listened to a most of the football games on KNTU when I had a chance and watched any of them that were on TV. I also represented by buying an NCAA tournament T-shirt which I wear all of the time now.

[da hawaiian]

Any reason why the PAC10 is taking Utah over BYU or why not the 2 rivals together? BYU is a cash cow compared to Utah. Just attend any BYU TCU game at Amon Carter to see the difference when Utah comes to visit. BYU in California draws eqaul to most of the home teams with the exception of USC. USC put BYU on it's schedule after it saw what BYU could draw to the Colliseum.

Someone mentioned it was academics in another thread which I almost laughed at.

[farmerfan]

Any reason why the PAC10 is taking Utah over BYU or why not the 2 rivals together? BYU is a cash cow compared to Utah. Just attend any BYU TCU game at Amon Carter to see the difference when Utah comes to visit. BYU in California draws eqaul to most of the home teams with the exception of USC. USC put BYU on it's schedule after it saw what BYU could draw to the Colliseum.

Someone mentioned it was academics in another thread which I almost laughed at.

I saw that somebody said in the link provided that Utah is regarded as a great academic school. Is this true? I will confess I have no idea what kind of academic reputation Utah has.

My moms husband got his bachelors and masters degree from Utah before going to the Baylor school of denistry. He was some sort of engineer in Midland and OKC before he became a dentist

[farmerfan]

Yeah I know. Everyday I see students who have no support for the school and they are wearing something from another school it is kind of sad.

I guess UNT will always be an arts school first before athletics. :(

I will admit I only made it to two football games this past year and no basketball games. I listened to a most of the football games on KNTU when I had a chance and watched any of them that were on TV. I also represented by buying an NCAA tournament T-shirt which I wear all of the time now.

Sadly you are right. But there is no reason to try and esacpe our art and muic culture. We are well respected nationally on that level there are some schools that are content with that. I used to want to see us get to a new level and thought we could but my eyes have been opened since I graduated in '06 :)

Part of the problem with all the other shirts you see is what comes with being a commuter school. Just not much pride in UNT

[Trojanalum693]

Sadly you are right. But there is no reason to try and esacpe our art and muic culture. We are well respected nationally on that level there are some schools that are content with that. I used to want to see us get to a new level and thought we could but my eyes have been opened since I graduated in '06 :)

Part of the problem with all the other shirts you see is what comes with being a commuter school. Just not much pride in UNT


Our former president thought that we could go to another level too. She really pushed for it too. That may be why she is gone.

[farmerfan]

Our former president thought that we could go to another level too. She really pushed for it too. That may be why she is gone.

Dr Battaile did great things for UNT. I wish she would have been there when I was there. Dr Pohl who the rec center is named after was a good president too. But Dr Battaile really did have a vision. I have heard that she and Lee Jackson the Chancellor clashed and that is why she left. But I am too ignornant of the situation to offer up any kind of reasoning behind that.

What she did for the campus and the programs though was outstanding and she did have a great vision for the place. She came from the UNC system so you know she had a very solid backgrou behind her

[dragons08]

Its not just on the alumni. The students too. Heck walk around campus and its nothing but Texas and OU shirts at that place. Student support for athletics at UNT is pretty embarrassing. We do not belong with the big boys nd probably never will. :o

And Georiga ;)

[farmerfan]

And Georiga ;)

Damn you :Censor::p:notworthy

[da hawaiian]

Well in Utah, You go to Utah because you couldn't get into BYU. Heck, almost anybody can get into Utah.

I found this interesting reading from Utah's Deseret News

"If it were about selling tickets, filling seats, grabbing ratings, top-notch facilities and on-field competition, BYU would be a no-brainer for Pac-10 expansion. Instead, factors generally unrelated to sports and economics are in play on the west coast, and as a result, BYU appears to be persona non grata. Of course, this supposition is rarely if ever spelled out publicly by those in Pac-10 power, but it is a commonly-held belief, anecdotal or otherwise"

[dragons08]

Damn you :Censor::p:notworthy

In Farmer's defense..I have seen him wear in a UNT shirt before...

...but he also has Aggy bookends and a picture of Pyle Field...so idkkk

[farmerfan]

In Farmer's defense..I have seen him wear in a UNT shirt before...

...but he also has Aggy bookends and a picture of Pyle Field...so idkkk

Picture of Pyle Field was a damn cool picture. It was of the RWB out after 9/11. I am honored to have that pictured framed and hanging in my place. It was a great honor to our fallen countrymen and women and what the students of A&M did for the victims of 9/11 is remarkable

[dragons08]

Picture of Pyle Field was a damn cool picture. It was of the RWB out after 9/11. I am honored to have that pictured framed and hanging in my place. It was a great honor to our fallen countrymen and women and what the students of A&M did for the victims of 9/11 is remarkable
I know bro, I thought it was an awesome picture as well. Just giving you a hard time!

[farmerfan]

I know bro, I thought it was an awesome picture as well. Just giving you a hard time!

It's cool man. Im just glad I took my Aggy flag down before you all got ove there ;)

[chhspantherfan]

DFW is a huge Transient market, I bet there's plenty of room for a TCU or SMU to pick up watchers, especially ex TAMU folks who've dropped off the radar.

TCU picked me up last year

not in the pied-bird circle :rolleyes:

[slorch]

Picture of Pyle Field was a damn cool picture. It was of the RWB out after 9/11. I am honored to have that pictured framed and hanging in my place. It was a great honor to our fallen countrymen and women and what the students of A&M did for the victims of 9/11 is remarkable


That's like having a picture of Pee Wee Herman in your living room because he looked "normal" once.

[farmerfan]

That's like having a picture of Pee Wee Herman in your living room because he looked "normal" once.

You can mock it all you want and draw all sorts of conculsions but the fact is, the students of Texas A&M led one of the greatest tributes I have ever seen in sports and donated somthing like half a million dollars from t-shirt sales and others to the families of 9/11. I was at that game and will always remember it.
You and I can mock the Aggies for a lot of things. We can say a lot of things about what may go on with the Aggies at their stadium or on their campus but one thing I can honestly say is that I have never seen a group come together after a tragedy like they did for Bonfire, 9/11 and even the Va-Tech shootings.
Go to Texaags and read the roll-call for the Va-Tech students after the shootings and it is touching.
Flame away and say what you will about that picture of Kyle Field but in those times America needed its people and not a single college or its students provided a sense of unity and strength lke what you saw in College Station that day.

I would think as a former Marine and veterna you would appreciate this

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/Red_white_and_blue_out.jpg

[pied]

not in the pied-bird circle :rolleyes:

fantastic point.

[pied]

Here's how I would start:

1. In states that have 2+ state schools in BCS conferences, I would pick the two largest. Usually a "U of State", "State U/State Tech/State A&M). Those with only one "U of State" in a BCS conference would get in automatically:


Bam.. 64 teams, huge geographic footprint, plenty of TV sets. I think I have every state with a DIA rep that currently has a IA football team except for Wyoming. Feel free to quibble here. Most years, your BCS qualifers will come from that pool of teams anyway. There are some teams that I would like to get in there, but I am trying to whittle down to a 64 team superleague that would form eight team conferences.


Not a bad list, and picking out the non Big 12 south D1 members might be a bit tough.

[pied]

All that said, I think the rich prfer things the way they are. I think Texas would like a bit more, but would prefer to stay in the Big XII. Tweaking the contracts, not an equal sharing of TV/Bowl revenue perhaps. The problem is you don't want to be left on the outside. If anyone but Iowa State/K State leaves, I think the Big XII is in trouble. You don't want to be caught off guard in that situation.


hmmm

Mike Slive, the commissioner of the Southeastern Conference, said his league was not considering adding teams but was working on a plan to keep up with other conferences if they expanded. Slive said the 12-member SEC had not talked to any institutions about joining and had no plans to do so. The expansion exploration is an internal look at the potential advantages and disadvantages in case there is a “significant shift in the conference paradigm,” he said. League expansion has been a hot topic since the Big Ten announced in December that it was considering expanding.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/27/sports/ncaafootball/27sportsbriefs-sec.html

[pied]

You can mock it all you want and draw all sorts of conculsions but the fact is, the students of Texas A&M led one of the greatest tributes I have ever seen in sports and donated somthing like half a million dollars from t-shirt sales and others to the families of 9/11. I was at that game and will always remember it.
You and I can mock the Aggies for a lot of things. We can say a lot of things about what may go on with the Aggies at their stadium or on their campus but one thing I can honestly say is that I have never seen a group come together after a tragedy like they did for Bonfire, 9/11 and even the Va-Tech shootings.
Go to Texaags and read the roll-call for the Va-Tech students after the shootings and it is touching.

Flame away and say what you will about that picture of Kyle Field but in those times America needed its people and not a single college or its students provided a sense of unity and strength lke what you saw in College Station that day.

I would think as a former Marine and veterna you would appreciate this

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/Red_white_and_blue_out.jpg


A great picture and tribute indeed.

[Firebird]

Not a bad list, and picking out the non Big 12 south D1 members might be a bit tough.

Looking back at it, I wish I could get Syracuse in there for the NY presence and just the great history there.

[pied]

More interesting talk.

As the landscape of college athletics continues to rattle with the looming prospects of major conference realignment, Harvey Schiller was recently recalling what might have been.


From 1986-89, Schiller was the commissioner of the SEC. Light years ahead of his contemporaries, Schiller helped to spectacularly alter the direction of the SEC by moving toward expansion and a championship game in football.


In a recent interview, Schiller reflected back on how Arkansas and South Carolina became the 11th and 12th schools in the league. But the most shocking revelation concerned how close the University of Texas came to joining the SEC.


Schiller, who left the SEC to become the executive director of the United States Olympic Committee and would later serve as president of Turner Sports and CEO of YankeeNets (going from working for Ted Turner to George Steinbrenner), said Texas had virtually agreed to become an SEC member. Arkansas and Texas would join the SEC from the Western side and South Carolina and either Florida State, Miami or Virginia Tech would enter from the East.


"The one that made the most sense was Texas," Schiller said. "I spent some time with DeLoss Dodds (the Texas athletic director) and he really wanted to join the conference."


Done deal. Everything agreed to but the name on the dotted line. Then, it all came apart.


"The state legislature (in Texas) somehow got wind of it through Texas A&M and said we had to bring in both schools or we couldn't take Texas," Schiller said.


The SEC didn't want A&M. Ultimately, the two Texas schools would leave the Southwest Conference and join the Big 12.


http://blog.al.com/press-register-sports/2010/04/finebaum_how_texas_nearly_join.html

[da hawaiian]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/Red_white_and_blue_out.jpg

:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy

[pied]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/Red_white_and_blue_out.jpg

One thing I never noticed, and perhaps it was the angle are the higher number of non-tshirt wearing people than I thought. I think most pictures I've seen have been of what I guess is the students' side. The zone, especially the "white" section has a lot of spots. Was that mainly the opposing team's fans? OSU I think.

If you were a fan and walked into that situation, would you feel compelled to ditch your shirt and put on the t-shirt that was being sold?

[slorch]

I've said so before that the picture is awesome.

Doesn't mean I can't give you chit about having an aggy picture in your living room...

[farmerfan]

I've said so before that the picture is awesome.

Doesn't mean I can't give you chit about having an aggy picture in your living room...

Like I said. Give me hell all you want for having this picture. It goes to show that the Aggies did put country first in this situation and it was more than being an Aggie or whatever college you attended. It was about being an American. I would have a similiar picture of Tech or Texas or Bama or Florida or anybody if they did a tribute like this. Especially if I were in the stands that day too.

[slorch]

They're still freaking freaks. American freaks, so we love them too...I guess.

What color kool-aid is your favorite?

Mines is purple, cause that's the most American- (mix red white and blue)

[Firebird]

they're still freaking freaks. American freaks, so we love them too...i guess.

What color kool-aid is your favorite?

Mines is purple, cause that's the most american- (mix red white and blue)

lol.

52-30.

[slorch]

lol.

52-30.

lol 1 out of the last 11 billionty years

[Firebird]

lol 1 out of the last 11 billionty years

LOL. History doesn't matter.

But if you want to talk about it, let's talk about it.

Subject:

"Texas Tech Football Championships"

Ready.....go.

[slorch]

LOL. History doesn't matter.

But if you want to talk about it, let's talk about it.

Subject:

"Texas Tech Football Championships"

Ready.....go.

yup.

Maybe Tubs can get us there...

[F18mustang]

yup.

Maybe Tubs can get us there...

Forget it Slorch, trade in your winning record and a bowl win for a losing record and a win over your rival.

[pied]

Forget it Slorch, trade in your winning record and a bowl win for a losing record and a win over your rival.

There are plenty of burnt orange t-shirts available.

[BDB]

There are plenty of burnt orange t-shirts available.

he still has his old ones. he just has to hide them in the lbk.

[F18mustang]

he still has his old ones. he just has to hide them in the lbk.

Sold them on ebay years ago.

[farmerfan]

They're still freaking freaks. American freaks, so we love them too...I guess.

What color kool-aid is your favorite?

Mines is purple, cause that's the most American- (mix red white and blue)

Call them what you what they did that day will forever be remembered in my mind and the mind of others. I am sure the families up in NYC who benefitted from their good deeds will forever remember it too.

How cute you are with your kool-aid reference. Tropical Punch all the way. Never knew a cocunut flavor existed.

[Firebird]

Forget it Slorch, trade in your winning record and a bowl win for a losing record and a win over your rival.

Maybe one day we will scale the heights of glory that is an Alamo Bowl win over a .500 Big Televen team.

[F18mustang]

Maybe one day we will scale the heights of glory that is an Alamo Bowl win over a .500 Big Televen team.

And more Jorvorski tears until then.

[lonny23]

UNT is a state school and is in a large market and they have a large enrollment. It is like 36,000 or something like that.
UNT has a LONG ways to go to be BCS-worthy. They don't spend enough money on sports.

Big-time money on sports:

Big 10
SEC
Big 12

Mid-range money:

Pac-10
ACC

Barely BCS-worthy:

Big East

Decent non-BCS:

C-USA
Mountain West

Struggling non-BCS:

WAC
MAC

LONG ways to go:

Sun Belt

[BDB]

UNT has a LONG ways to go to be BCS-worthy. They don't spend enough money on sports.

Big-time money on sports:

Big 10
SEC
Big 12

Mid-range money:

Pac-10
ACC

Barely BCS-worthy:

Big East

Decent non-BCS:

C-USA
Mountain West

Struggling non-BCS:

WAC
MAC

LONG ways to go:

Sun Belt

well this list looks legit....

[chhspantherfan]

well this list looks legit....

like you're a freakin' expert;)

[lonny23]

Here's how I would start:

1. In states that have 2+ state schools in BCS conferences, I would pick the two largest. Usually a "U of State", "State U/State Tech/State A&M). Those with only one "U of State" in a BCS conference would get in automatically:

1. Florida
2. FSU
3. Clemson
4. South Carolina
5. North Carolina
6. NC State
7. Virginia
8. Virginia Tech
9. Maryland
10. Georgia
11. Georgia Tech
12. Tennessee
13. Kentucky
14. Alabama
15. Auburn
16. Ole Miss
17. Miss State
18. LSU
19. Arkie
20. UConn
21. Louisville
22. Pitt
23. Penn State
24. Rutgers
25. WVU
26. tOSU
27. Cincy
28. Iowa
29. Iowa State
30. Nebraska
31. Mizzou
32. Kansas
33. Kansas State
34. Okie
35. Okie State
36. Texas
37. A&M
38. Colorado
39. Indiana
40. Purdue
41. Wisky
42. Minnesota
43. Michigan
44. Michigan State
45. Arizona
46. Arizona State
47. UCLA
48. Cal
49. Oregon
50. Oregon State
51. Wazzou
52. Washington
53. Illinois


Then I would cherry pick some privates/smaller state schools that would add value and/or prestige

54. Notre Dame
55. Miami
56. Southern Cal
57. Stanford
58. Boston College
59. Texas Tech
60. Utah
61. Brigham Young
62. New Mexico
63. Boise
64. Hawai'i

Bam.. 64 teams, huge geographic footprint, plenty of TV sets. I think I have every state with a DIA rep that currently has a IA football team except for Wyoming. Feel free to quibble here. Most years, your BCS qualifers will come from that pool of teams anyway. There are some teams that I would like to get in there, but I am trying to whittle down to a 64 team superleague that would form eight team conferences.I agree with the general consensus of your list as far as main state universities and to add 3rd schools and privates as necessary, but I also think we should have the 3 service academies, especially since 2 of them go to bowls each year these days (Air Force and Navy).

1. Boston College
2. Clemson
3. Florida State
4. Georgia Tech
5. Maryland
6. Miami (FL)
7. North Carolina
8. North Carolina State
9. Virginia
10. Virginia Tech
11. Colorado
12. Kansas
13. Missouri
14. Nebraska
15. Oklahoma
16. Oklahoma State
17. Texas
18. Texas A&M
19. Texas Tech
20. Cincinnati
21. Connecticut
22. Louisville
23. Pittsburgh
24. Rutgers
25. Syracuse
26. West Virginia
27. Illinois
28. Indiana
29. Iowa
30. Michigan
31. Michigan State
32. Minnesota
33. Ohio State
34. Penn State
35. Purdue
36. Wisconsin
37. Army
38. Navy
39. Notre Dame
40. Air Force
41. Brigham Young
42. TCU
43. Utah
44. Arizona
45. Arizona State
46. California
47. Oregon
48. Oregon State
49. UCLA
50. USC
51. Washington
52. Washington State
53. Alabama
54. Arkansas
55. Auburn
56. Florida
57. Georgia
58. Kentucky
59. LSU
60. Mississippi
61. South Carolina
62. Tennessee
63. Boise State

64. Mississippi State and they were the only team I had to go back and add in after my first cut. They won over Stanford, Iowa State, and Kansas State. Duke was some thought, but they're a lot more of a basketball school.

[lonny23]

Any reason why the PAC10 is taking Utah over BYU or why not the 2 rivals together? BYU is a cash cow compared to Utah. Just attend any BYU TCU game at Amon Carter to see the difference when Utah comes to visit. BYU in California draws eqaul to most of the home teams with the exception of USC. USC put BYU on it's schedule after it saw what BYU could draw to the Colliseum.

Someone mentioned it was academics in another thread which I almost laughed at.I think any conference would take BYU over Utah. I'd take Air Force over Utah, too.

[lonny23]

You can mock it all you want and draw all sorts of conculsions but the fact is, the students of Texas A&M led one of the greatest tributes I have ever seen in sports and donated somthing like half a million dollars from t-shirt sales and others to the families of 9/11. I was at that game and will always remember it.
You and I can mock the Aggies for a lot of things. We can say a lot of things about what may go on with the Aggies at their stadium or on their campus but one thing I can honestly say is that I have never seen a group come together after a tragedy like they did for Bonfire, 9/11 and even the Va-Tech shootings.
Go to Texaags and read the roll-call for the Va-Tech students after the shootings and it is touching.
Flame away and say what you will about that picture of Kyle Field but in those times America needed its people and not a single college or its students provided a sense of unity and strength lke what you saw in College Station that day.

I would think as a former Marine and veterna you would appreciate this

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/Red_white_and_blue_out.jpgThe worst part of that picture is the losers who didn't play along. I think slorch was joking.

[farmerfan]

I agree with the general consensus of your list as far as main state universities and to add 3rd schools and privates as necessary, but I also think we should have the 3 service academies, especially since 2 of them go to bowls each year these days (Air Force and Navy).

1. Boston College
2. Clemson
3. Florida State
4. Georgia Tech
5. Maryland
6. Miami (FL)
7. North Carolina
8. North Carolina State
9. Virginia
10. Virginia Tech
11. Colorado
12. Kansas
13. Missouri
14. Nebraska
15. Oklahoma
16. Oklahoma State
17. Texas
18. Texas A&M
19. Texas Tech
20. Cincinnati
21. Connecticut
22. Louisville
23. Pittsburgh
24. Rutgers
25. Syracuse
26. West Virginia
27. Illinois
28. Indiana
29. Iowa
30. Michigan
31. Michigan State
32. Minnesota
33. Ohio State
34. Penn State
35. Purdue
36. Wisconsin
37. Army
38. Navy
39. Notre Dame
40. Air Force
41. Brigham Young
42. TCU
43. Utah
44. Arizona
45. Arizona State
46. California
47. Oregon
48. Oregon State
49. UCLA
50. USC
51. Washington
52. Washington State
53. Alabama
54. Arkansas
55. Auburn
56. Florida
57. Georgia
58. Kentucky
59. LSU
60. Mississippi
61. South Carolina
62. Tennessee
63. Boise State

64. Mississippi State and they were the only team I had to go back and add in after my first cut. They won over Stanford, Iowa State, and Kansas State. Duke was some thought, but they're a lot more of a basketball school.

LOL at Lonny going back to edit to had a 3rd school when it applies. Hmm funny that the 3rd school was Tech. I do not know if I would have Tech as a clear cut favorite over Miss St and definitely not K-State. Sorry to you Techies but outside of football the atheltics haven't been that great.

[lonny23]

Looking back at it, I wish I could get Syracuse in there for the NY presence and just the great history there.
You have to have Syracuse because they have a bunch of fans. Them and Penn State are the long-time Northeast teams people like. Rutgers and UConn are new to the game, but they come from populated states.

[lonny23]

well this list looks legit....
It's legit because I made the list based upon the spending habits of the conferences. It's like picking a neighborhood or poker game to join!:D

[lonny23]

LOL at Lonny going back to edit to had a 3rd school when it applies. Hmm funny that the 3rd school was Tech. I do not know if I would have Tech as a clear cut favorite over Miss St and definitely not K-State. Sorry to you Techies but outside of football the atheltics haven't been that great.
Tech was not an edit. I copied and pasted all 120 teams, cut and numbered as I went and had 63 teams at the end. I added Mississippi State in and listed what I thought were the bubble teams. I have 3 teams from several states (CA, IN, FL) along with Texas. Texas should have 3 teams and Tech has enough fans ti justify it over a state with under 3 million.

This is ONLY a football list. If that weren't the case, I would've had Duke in there. Don't forget many teams play in more than 1 conference depending upon the sport. I had to list the schools who have been good football teams recently and that's why TCU made it. I might've cut Utah if they hadn't been so good lately.

[F18mustang]

LOL at Lonny going back to edit to had a 3rd school when it applies. Hmm funny that the 3rd school was Tech. I do not know if I would have Tech as a clear cut favorite over Miss St and definitely not K-State. Sorry to you Techies but outside of football the atheltics haven't been that great.

Not traditionally, but I feel were on the rise.

Dan Spencer has the baseball team sitting 3rd in the Big12 right now and the future looks bright. Dan Law Field is set to be rebuilt after the season:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EaMloLEFQTw/S2bxH1mYMfI/AAAAAAAAATA/nUYsxvq0MwM/s320/law.jpg
http://www.redraiders.com/wp-content/uploads//6.jpg

Mens Track is ranked for 4th in the country at the moment.
Softball has actually won more than 20 games this year (33 right now)
Basketball is poised to be pretty good next year, as is Womens BBall (Cant forget 1993, BTW0

[pied]

The worst part of that picture is the losers who didn't play along. I think slorch was joking.

Wuold that include the OSU fans? What about the corps guys. I can see that going either way. Don't recall if there was any discussion about that.

If you were an opposing fan at the game, would you put on the t-shirt?

Would it have been looked at as odd if you had some Okie State Red/White/Blue shirt made up and wore that one?

[lonny23]

My list wasn't a crapshoot list. I made it based upon who has been winning, who creates a buzz, who has fans and history, how much gear I see in stores as I'm traveling around the country, and who is building better facilities. I also had to consider the state population and how much a team really means on the national landscape.

Going through Boise and Louisville and seeing what they're doing with the football stadiums is going to make an impression with me.

[pied]

Not traditionally, but I feel were on the rise.

Dan Spencer has the baseball team sitting 3rd in the Big12 right now and the future looks bright. Dan Law Field is set to be rebuilt after the season:


Mens Track is ranked for 4th in the country at the moment.
Softball has actually won more than 20 games this year (33 right now)
Basketball is poised to be pretty good next year, as is Womens BBall (Cant forget 1993, BTW0

Tech is two games above .500 in conference(10-8) and only four over, overall (24-20).

[lonny23]

Not traditionally, but I feel were on the rise.

Dan Spencer has the baseball team sitting 3rd in the Big12 right now and the future looks bright. Dan Law Field is set to be rebuilt after the season:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EaMloLEFQTw/S2bxH1mYMfI/AAAAAAAAATA/nUYsxvq0MwM/s320/law.jpg
http://www.redraiders.com/wp-content/uploads//6.jpg

Mens Track is ranked for 4th in the country at the moment.
Softball has actually won more than 20 games this year (33 right now)
Basketball is poised to be pretty good next year, as is Womens BBall (Cant forget 1993, BTW0Golf and tennis are on the upswing, too.

Tech will probably finish 2nd in baseball and that's with a bunch of pitching injuries.

We're not bad at cross country, either.

Tech plays in the high rent district and would be a huge fish in some conferences.

[lonny23]

Wuold that include the OSU fans? What about the corps guys. I can see that going either way. Don't recall if there was any discussion about that.

If you were an opposing fan at the game, would you put on the t-shirt?

Would it have been looked at as odd if you had some Okie State Red/White/Blue shirt made up and wore that one?
Maybe it was the corps. My gripe is the blue section and you can't really see the visitors in that picture (The sections to the far right of the picture beyond the end zone).

[lonny23]

Tech is two games above .500 in conference(10-8) and only four over, overall (24-20).
They've played some tough teams and have been hot the last month. They'll probably finish about 17-10 in the Big 12 and around 34-22 before the tourney. Last week they were projected as a 3 seed in the NCAA Tourney, but I'm going to say they'll get a low #2.

[pied]

Maybe it was the corps. My gripe is the blue section and you can't really see the visitors in that picture (The sections to the far right of the picture beyond the end zone).

The corps block is in the blue section. THe student section was pretty uniform overall in all three decks, but I think the visitor section is the lower right on this picture. The biggest culprits appear to be the white section in the zone. Pretty big contrast to the students. I imagine a lot of those guys sell their tickets, and Okie State fans likely bought some of them up. That section would be the most noticeable. Shoule the visitors have been expected to wear the t-shirts? Were they?

[F18mustang]

Tech is two games above .500 in conference(10-8) and only four over, overall (24-20).

Okie Lite 25-13 or something like that and look where they are. Its all about RPI and who you play and so far we have competed and are in position for a regional.

[lonny23]

The corps block is in the blue section. THe student section was pretty uniform overall in all three decks, but I think the visitor section is the lower right on this picture. The biggest culprits appear to be the white section in the zone. Pretty big contrast to the students. I imagine a lot of those guys sell their tickets, and Okie State fans likely bought some of them up. That section would be the most noticeable. Shoule the visitors have been expected to wear the t-shirts? Were they?I'd buy a t-shirt as long as it's not too pro-Aggie.

[Trojanalum693]

Dr Battaile did great things for UNT. I wish she would have been there when I was there. Dr Pohl who the rec center is named after was a good president too. But Dr Battaile really did have a vision. I have heard that she and Lee Jackson the Chancellor clashed and that is why she left. But I am too ignornant of the situation to offer up any kind of reasoning behind that.

What she did for the campus and the programs though was outstanding and she did have a great vision for the place. She came from the UNC system so you know she had a very solid backgrou behind her


Dr. Bataile "resigned" because of the clashes with the board and chancellor. She is one of the big reasons we are getting our new football stadium. The board really only cares about the UNT Dallas Campus at this point, I have been informed by multiple people that is because that is where the money is.

Dr. Bataile wanted UNT to become a very well respected research University in all fields. She had a vision of someday UNT being a top tier research institution. The board thinks otherwise.

[lonny23]

Not traditionally, but I feel were on the rise.

Dan Spencer has the baseball team sitting 3rd in the Big12 right now and the future looks bright. Dan Law Field is set to be rebuilt after the season:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EaMloLEFQTw/S2bxH1mYMfI/AAAAAAAAATA/nUYsxvq0MwM/s320/law.jpg
http://www.redraiders.com/wp-content/uploads//6.jpg

Mens Track is ranked for 4th in the country at the moment.
Softball has actually won more than 20 games this year (33 right now)
Basketball is poised to be pretty good next year, as is Womens BBall (Cant forget 1993, BTW0
I've got a few add-ons:

Football ranked at season's end 5 of last 6 seasons.

Men's B-ball lost in NIT quarterfinals.

Women's B-ball lost in NIT.

Softball ranked #25.

Women's Track ranked 12th.

Women won Big 12 Cross Country this year.

Men's Golf had individual winner and 4th as team in Big 12.

[etizzle]

Dr. Bataile "resigned" because of the clashes with the board and chancellor. She is one of the big reasons we are getting our new football stadium. The board really only cares about the UNT Dallas Campus at this point, I have been informed by multiple people that is because that is where the money is.

Dr. Bataile wanted UNT to become a very well respected research University in all fields. She had a vision of someday UNT being a top tier research institution. The board thinks otherwise.

Such a shame. UNT has so much potential, and with 35k students it needs to utilize it. I got to visit a year ago and loved the campus, and from what I could tell, everything the tour guide told us about what they were doing to expand and improve, they were headed in the right direction.

[etizzle]

I've got a few add-ons:

Football ranked at season's end 5 of last 6 seasons.

Men's B-ball lost in NIT quarterfinals.

Women's B-ball lost in NIT.

Softball ranked #25.

Women's Track ranked 12th.

Women won Big 12 Cross Country this year.

Men's Golf had individual winner and 4th as team in Big 12.

Women's BBall was also in the Quarterfinals. Both games went to OT, mens to 2OT

[Trojanalum693]

Such a shame. UNT has so much potential, and with 35k students it needs to utilize it. I got to visit a year ago and loved the campus, and from what I could tell, everything the tour guide told us about what they were doing to expand and improve, they were headed in the right direction.


We are still expanding but not to the extent that Dr. Battile wanted us too. She wanted to do way more.

The money may not have been there though.

[Firebird]

I agree with the general consensus of your list as far as main state universities and to add 3rd schools and privates as necessary, but I also think we should have the 3 service academies, especially since 2 of them go to bowls each year these days (Air Force and Navy).

1. Boston College
2. Clemson
3. Florida State
4. Georgia Tech
5. Maryland
6. Miami (FL)
7. North Carolina
8. North Carolina State
9. Virginia
10. Virginia Tech
11. Colorado
12. Kansas
13. Missouri
14. Nebraska
15. Oklahoma
16. Oklahoma State
17. Texas
18. Texas A&M
19. Texas Tech
20. Cincinnati
21. Connecticut
22. Louisville
23. Pittsburgh
24. Rutgers
25. Syracuse
26. West Virginia
27. Illinois
28. Indiana
29. Iowa
30. Michigan
31. Michigan State
32. Minnesota
33. Ohio State
34. Penn State
35. Purdue
36. Wisconsin
37. Army
38. Navy
39. Notre Dame
40. Air Force
41. Brigham Young
42. TCU
43. Utah
44. Arizona
45. Arizona State
46. California
47. Oregon
48. Oregon State
49. UCLA
50. USC
51. Washington
52. Washington State
53. Alabama
54. Arkansas
55. Auburn
56. Florida
57. Georgia
58. Kentucky
59. LSU
60. Mississippi
61. South Carolina
62. Tennessee
63. Boise State

64. Mississippi State and they were the only team I had to go back and add in after my first cut. They won over Stanford, Iowa State, and Kansas State. Duke was some thought, but they're a lot more of a basketball school.


I thought about the service academies, but I am basing my list mostly off of viewer interest in a league designed to produce a national champion. The service academies are great schools with great history, but just not much of a following outside of grads and on Army/Navy day which would draw TV sets if it were NAIA. Most of the armed forces enlisted guys I know pick a state school to follow, the academies are more of a big deal among the officer corps which just isn't that big of a segment of society.

[farmerfan]

The corps block is in the blue section. THe student section was pretty uniform overall in all three decks, but I think the visitor section is the lower right on this picture. The biggest culprits appear to be the white section in the zone. Pretty big contrast to the students. I imagine a lot of those guys sell their tickets, and Okie State fans likely bought some of them up. That section would be the most noticeable. Shoule the visitors have been expected to wear the t-shirts? Were they?

The Okie St fans were not required or expected to wear the shirts but a lot of them after seeing what the donations were going to chipped in and participated.
When this was originally set up it was going to be the students only. When word got around the alumni and others were very interested and they had to rush in another 40,000 shirts or so. It was easy to cordinate on the student side and the zone might be more difficult since there are actually 5 sections in the zone unlike the 3 decks on the alumni and student sid.e
But seriously if we are nit picking at a few here and there then that is pretty freaking sad if you ask me. I think the participation of this speaks for itself and it takes a real dull person to nitpick at maybe a few thousand shirts out of place, good gosh man

[farmerfan]

I've got a few add-ons:

Football ranked at season's end 5 of last 6 seasons.

Men's B-ball lost in NIT quarterfinals.

Women's B-ball lost in NIT.

Softball ranked #25.

Women's Track ranked 12th.

Women won Big 12 Cross Country this year.

Men's Golf had individual winner and 4th as team in Big 12.

That looks like a real dominant list right there.
Baseball hasn't been in the tournament in how long again? Baseball sitting at 10-8 in conference right now is not too much to brag abot. Going to the NIT in basketball definitely not much to brag about. Going to the WNIT even worse to brag about. Bragging about individual winner and coming in 4th place in a league is downright funny.

Sorry F18 and D08 but this is just hilarious.

[lonny23]

I thought about the service academies, but I am basing my list mostly off of viewer interest in a league designed to produce a national champion. The service academies are great schools with great history, but just not much of a following outside of grads and on Army/Navy day which would draw TV sets if it were NAIA. Most of the armed forces enlisted guys I know pick a state school to follow, the academies are more of a big deal among the officer corps which just isn't that big of a segment of society.One of the big reasons why enlisted don't root for the Academies is because so many hate the officers and the schools that produce them.

Air Force deserves to play with the big boys in football and Navy has been that way for most of the last decade. There is nothing about Army that says they belong, but I couldn't leave them out. This deal isn't 100% about TV and you have to have a factor for teams that win quite a bit. Air Force is a consensus 4th in the MWC these days and has been a 8+ win team most of the years for almost 30 years. Navy has enough big wins lately to belong.

Air Force:

1982 8–5 4–3 (WAC) Hall of Fame vs. Vanderbilt, W, 36–28
1983 10–2 5–2 (WAC) Independence vs. Mississippi, W, 9–3
1984 8–4 4–3 (WAC) Independence vs. Virginia Tech, W, 23–7
1985 12–1 7–1 (WAC) Bluebonnet vs. Texas, W. 24–16
1986 6–5 5–2 (WAC)
1987 9–4 6–2 (WAC) Freedom vs. Arizona State, L, 28–33
1988 5–7 3–5 (WAC)
1989 8–4–1 5–1–1 (WAC) Liberty vs. Mississippi, L, 29–42
1990 7–5 3–4 (WAC) Liberty vs. Ohio State, W, 23–11
1991 10–3 6–2 (WAC) Liberty vs. Mississippi State, W, 38–15
1992 7–5 4–4 (WAC) Liberty vs. Mississippi, L, 0–13
1993 4–8 1–7 (WAC)
1994 8–4 6–2 (WAC)
1995 8–5 6–2 (WAC) Copper vs. Texas Tech, L, 41–55
1996 6–5 5–3 (WAC)
1997 10–3 6–2 (WAC) Las Vegas vs. Oregon, L, 13–41
1998 12–1 7–1 (WAC) O’ahu vs. Washington, W, 45–25
1999 6–5 2–5 (MWC)
2000 9–3 5–2 (MWC) Silicon Valley vs. Fresno State, W, 37–34
2001 6–6 3–4 (MWC)
2002 8–5 4–3 (MWC) San Francisco vs. Virginia Tech, L, 13–20
2003 7–5 3–4 (MWC)
2004 5–6 3–4 (MWC)
2005 4–7 3–5 (MWC)
2006 4–8 3–4 (MWC)
2007 9–4 6–2 (MWC) Armed Forces vs. California, L, 36–42
2008 8–5 5–3 (MWC) Armed Forces vs. Houston, L, 28–34
2009 8–5 5–3 (MWC) Armed Forces vs. Houston, W, 47–20

9-8 in bowls in the last 28 years. 5 seasons of 10 or more wins. 8 or more wins in 16 of the 28 years. 5 losing seasons with the disadvantage of player size restrictions at the Academy (Chad Hennings had to have waivers while he was there.)

[pied]

The Okie St fans were not required or expected to wear the shirts but a lot of them after seeing what the donations were going to chipped in and participated.
When this was originally set up it was going to be the students only. When word got around the alumni and others were very interested and they had to rush in another 40,000 shirts or so. It was easy to cordinate on the student side and the zone might be more difficult since there are actually 5 sections in the zone unlike the 3 decks on the alumni and student sid.e
But seriously if we are nit picking at a few here and there then that is pretty freaking sad if you ask me. I think the participation of this speaks for itself and it takes a real dull person to nitpick at maybe a few thousand shirts out of place, good gosh man

Please don't misunderstand my qusetions for nitpicking.

My original post regarding the picture:

A great picture and tribute indeed.

I believe that, but also don't recall seeing that picture with all t he sections. Simple questions about the event from someone who wasn't there, and then continuing the conversation with Lonny.

[lonny23]

That looks like a real dominant list right there.
Baseball hasn't been in the tournament in how long again? Baseball sitting at 10-8 in conference right now is not too much to brag abot. Going to the NIT in basketball definitely not much to brag about. Going to the WNIT even worse to brag about. Bragging about individual winner and coming in 4th place in a league is downright funny.

Sorry F18 and D08 but this is just hilarious.They're not winning national titles, but it is proof of overall athletic department improvement.

Tech is looking at going from 10th to 2nd in baseball in 1 year.

The non-money sports are on the rise. That's all I'm saying. We don't have UT money to make every sport great.

Men's basketball was better this year than last year. Most sports at Tech are getting better.

[lonny23]

The Okie St fans were not required or expected to wear the shirts but a lot of them after seeing what the donations were going to chipped in and participated.
When this was originally set up it was going to be the students only. When word got around the alumni and others were very interested and they had to rush in another 40,000 shirts or so. It was easy to cordinate on the student side and the zone might be more difficult since there are actually 5 sections in the zone unlike the 3 decks on the alumni and student sid.e
But seriously if we are nit picking at a few here and there then that is pretty freaking sad if you ask me. I think the participation of this speaks for itself and it takes a real dull person to nitpick at maybe a few thousand shirts out of place, good gosh man
The fact that I griped about who didn't wear a shirt was proof that I liked those who did. You should've known that.

[Firebird]

More interesting talk.




http://blog.al.com/press-register-sports/2010/04/finebaum_how_texas_nearly_join.html

The best article I have ever read on the formation of the Big XII is this one at the SA Express News and it contradicts a lot of what the SEC Commish says, both about Texas interest in the SEC and the SEC's interest in A&M.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/MYSA081405_3N_SWCbaylor_tech_1ca3e1c_html8528.html

I have to LOL at this line. Seems like a bunch of hot air to me:

"The state legislature (in Texas) somehow got wind of it through Texas A&M and said we had to bring in both schools or we couldn't take Texas," Schiller said"

Dastardly A&M! However would the Texas state legislature (whoever those guys are) ever have found out about the state's largest school planning to switch conferences. Some real cloak and dagger stuff there.

[F18mustang]

I was pointing out improvement. I'll be the first to tell you that sports outside of football is nothing to brag about.

[Firebird]

They're not winning national titles, but it is proof of overall athletic department improvement.

Tech is looking at going from 10th to 2nd in baseball in 1 year.

The non-money sports are on the rise. That's all I'm saying. We don't have UT money to make every sport great.

Men's basketball was better this year than last year. Most sports at Tech are getting better.

Let's wait just a bit until the end of the season before we decide who finishes where in the standings.

[pied]

Let's wait just a bit until the end of the season before we decide who finishes where in the standings.

hmmmm


ahh nevermind, too superstitious.

[farmerfan]

Please don't misunderstand my qusetions for nitpicking.

My original post regarding the picture:



I believe that, but also don't recall seeing that picture with all t he sections. Simple questions about the event from someone who wasn't there, and then continuing the conversation with Lonny.

I understand your original post but I do not understand why you asked the questions you did or were even curious. I showed what the picture was in my room and that is the exact angle. I do not see what others not wearing the right color has to do with it why it should even be mentioned :)

[farmerfan]

They're not winning national titles, but it is proof of overall athletic department improvement.

Tech is looking at going from 10th to 2nd in baseball in 1 year.

The non-money sports are on the rise. That's all I'm saying. We don't have UT money to make every sport great.

Men's basketball was better this year than last year. Most sports at Tech are getting better.

Talk to me when conference championships are being won, not when finishing outside of 1st continues to happen. "Improving" is just a word to raise hope and what not. Once you are there then come talk to us. 4th place finishes and participation in the NIT is not something to brag about.

[Trojanalum693]

I will just throw this out there. What if the Big XII could steal Notre Dame away from the Big X? That would mean many extra $ for the Big XII conference.

Though I do believe that ND will remain independent. They like it too much.

[farmerfan]

I was pointing out improvement. I'll be the first to tell you that sports outside of football is nothing to brag about.

Exactly. You would not brag about a 4th place finish in conference. At least I do not think you would

[Trojanalum693]

Exactly. You would not brag about a 4th place finish in conference. At least I do not think you would

Baylor might brag about that. So might Vanderbilt or Duke for that matter(except in football and Lacrosse).

[pied]

I understand your original post but I do not understand why you asked the questions you did or were even curious. I showed what the picture was in my room and that is the exact angle. I do not see what others not wearing the right color has to do with it why it should even be mentioned :)

I hadn't seen that angle/picture before. Not all of us have been to your house.

Here is my post with qusetions about it.

One thing I never noticed, and perhaps it was the angle are the higher number of non-tshirt wearing people than I thought. I think most pictures I've seen have been of what I guess is the students' side. The zone, especially the "white" section has a lot of spots. Was that mainly the opposing team's fans? OSU I think.

If you were a fan and walked into that situation, would you feel compelled to ditch your shirt and put on the t-shirt that was being sold?

[farmerfan]

I hadn't seen that angle/picture before. Not all of us have been to your house.

Here is my post with qusetions about it.

Which is fine. I just don't understand why you asked the question you did after you gave them a compliment. But in the spirit of asking questions, was this before or after you started keeping track of attendance numbers?

[farmerfan]

Baylor might brag about that. So might Vanderbilt or Duke for that matter(except in football and Lacrosse).

In all sports Baylor does very well. Vandy, dook and Baylor were all in the NCAA tournament and not the NIT too :D

[pied]

Which is fine. I just don't understand why you asked the question you did after you gave them a compliment. But in the spirit of asking questions, was this before or after you started keeping track of attendance numbers?


The game or the post?

I didn't start keeping track of attendance until abut 2-3 years ago.

I can tell you that '01 had their highest number of sell outs to games, if you count the Baylor game as a sell out:

McNeese State......70,656....85.54%...11,944
Oklahoma St..........82,601...100.00%
Notre Dame...........87,206....105.58%
Baylor..................82,589.....99.99%......... .11
Iowa State...........85,661....103.71%
Texas..................87,555....106.00%
Average...............82,711....100.13%

[Trojanalum693]

In all sports Baylor does very well. Vandy, dook and Baylor were all in the NCAA tournament and not the NIT too :D


I was mainly talking football. And until recently Baylor wasn't any good in anything other than women's basketball.

Vandy was only good in football when they had Jay Cutler and he only won them 5 games.

Need I say anything about Duke's football team? When was the last time they made it to a bowl game? I know their basketball team is great along with lacrosse.

[Firebird]

I was mainly talking football. And until recently Baylor wasn't any good in anything other than women's basketball.

Vandy was only good in football when they had Jay Cutler and he only won them 5 games.

Need I say anything about Duke's football team? When was the last time they made it to a bowl game? I know their basketball team is great along with lacrosse.

Not true. Baylor has won more Big XII championships than several other schools.

[chhspantherfan]

current director's cup standings


http://www.nacda.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/nacda/sports/directorscup/auto_pdf/apr8DIDcup

[lonny23]

Let's wait just a bit until the end of the season before we decide who finishes where in the standings.
Many things can happen, but the schedule plays favorably for Tech to move up.

[lonny23]

Exactly. You would not brag about a 4th place finish in conference. At least I do not think you would
I wasn't bragging about anything. I was only saying we're playing better than before. Don't forget I'm the guy who will gripe about a 30 point win not being 40 points.

[farmerfan]

I wasn't bragging about anything. I was only saying we're playing better than before. Don't forget I'm the guy who will gripe about a 30 point win not being 40 points.

You're still bragging about a 4th place finish and NIT apperances. Among other things. Tech would be absolutely lost in a league with the other large state schools from around the country. They are a middle of the pack at best athletic program in the Big 12. Put them up against a good portion of the Big 10, SEC or PAC 10 schools and it would even be worse for them.

Tech has done nothing to show they belong in a league outside of the Big 12. Don't feed us the TV sets and everything else either. I understand Tech draws well in DFW but not like A&M, UT, OU and I would even say Arkansas probably draws as well as Tech does in the DF-Dub. There are tons of Arkansas alumns living in DFW

[farmerfan]

Many things can happen, but the schedule plays favorably for Tech to move up.

I will make a bet here that Tech will not be moving up in the standings in the Big 12 in baseball. Wanna take the bet?

[F18mustang]

You're still bragging about a 4th place finish and NIT apperances. Among other things. Tech would be absolutely lost in a league with the other large state schools from around the country. They are a middle of the pack at best athletic program in the Big 12. Put them up against a good portion of the Big 10, SEC or PAC 10 schools and it would even be worse for them.

Tech has done nothing to show they belong in a league outside of the Big 12. Don't feed us the TV sets and everything else either. I understand Tech draws well in DFW but not like A&M, UT, OU and I would even say Arkansas probably draws as well as Tech does in the DF-Dub. There are tons of Arkansas alumns living in DFW

You'd be surprised. 70,000 Tech fans showed up to the Baylor game at Cowboys Stadium last year. Its undoubtedly our largest alumni base and I am pretty sure we have more than Arky does.

[farmerfan]

You'd be surprised. 70,000 Tech fans showed up to the Baylor game at Cowboys Stadium last year. Its undoubtedly our largest alumni base and I am pretty sure we have more than Arky does.

Arkansas probably had 40,000 at Cowboys Stadium last year for the Aggie game and I bet would have had 70,000 easily if the tickets were not split. DFW is probably home to the second largetst alumni base for Arkansas(Little Rock) and anybody who remembers the old SWC days remembers how well Arkansas drew when playing in Dallas. There is a reason Reunion Arena was named Barnhill South back in the day and when Arkansas would play at the Cotton Bowl they would always fill up their allotment.
Not saying that Tech doesnt draw well here in DFW but its not adding anything speical or a market that the current slate doesnt already have. I would wager to say on a given Saturday more TV sets are tuned in to A&M and UT and OU games when they are on TV than Tech.

[F18mustang]

Arkansas probably had 40,000 at Cowboys Stadium last year for the Aggie game and I bet would have had 70,000 easily if the tickets were not split. DFW is probably home to the second largetst alumni base for Arkansas(Little Rock) and anybody who remembers the old SWC days remembers how well Arkansas drew when playing in Dallas. There is a reason Reunion Arena was named Barnhill South back in the day and when Arkansas would play at the Cotton Bowl they would always fill up their allotment.
Not saying that Tech doesnt draw well here in DFW but its not adding anything speical or a market that the current slate doesnt already have. I would wager to say on a given Saturday more TV sets are tuned in to A&M and UT and OU games when they are on TV than Tech.

Well yeah, but time slots are different and the same set might be tuned to a Texas game and then to a Tech game earlier or later the same day.

Theres a reason why the Big12 keeps us around. We contribute and hold our own surprisingly well in all of the Texas markets.

(Thanks Leach :rolleyes:;))

[dragons08]

That looks like a real dominant list right there.
Baseball hasn't been in the tournament in how long again? Baseball sitting at 10-8 in conference right now is not too much to brag abot. Going to the NIT in basketball definitely not much to brag about. Going to the WNIT even worse to brag about. Bragging about individual winner and coming in 4th place in a league is downright funny.

Sorry F18 and D08 but this is just hilarious.

Can somebody compare this list to OU and Aggy?

[dragons08]

Oh, and for the record I know we're not a "great" athletic program yet, but we're up and coming. I don't know if Lonny is really "bragging" about our 4th place finishes, but I think he is saying is that we are finishing in the upper half up the big 12 for most sports. Thus finishing ahead of most the top 2 state schools that you all want to include in this 64 bracket, so to say Tech doesn't belong with those 64 is a joke.

Or that could be my opinion and lonny has just gone off the deep end.

[F18mustang]

Oh, and for the record I know we're not a "great" athletic program yet, but we're up and coming. I don't know if Lonny is really "bragging" about our 4th place finishes, but I think he is saying is that we are finishing in the upper half up the big 12 for most sports. Thus finishing ahead of most the top 2 state schools that you all want to include in this 64 bracket, so to say Tech doesn't belong with those 64 is a joke.

Or that could be my opinion and lonny has just gone off the deep end.

Its a noticeable improvement all around. Were not in the basement in anything anymore.

[Firebird]

That looks like a real dominant list right there.
Baseball hasn't been in the tournament in how long again? Baseball sitting at 10-8 in conference right now is not too much to brag abot. Going to the NIT in basketball definitely not much to brag about. Going to the WNIT even worse to brag about. Bragging about individual winner and coming in 4th place in a league is downright funny.

Sorry F18 and D08 but this is just hilarious.

Can somebody compare this list to OU and Aggy?

Why sure, I'll do A&M:

A&M Men's Basketball: T3 in the Big XII standings, NCAA 4 seed, 2nd round, 5th straight NCAA trip, winner of at least 1 NCAA game in each trip, top 25 finish

A&M Women's Basketball: T4 in Big XII standings, won Big XII tourney, NCAA 2nd round, top 25 finish

A&M Baseball: We'll miss the tournament this year for the first time in 3 years. Sucks.

A&M Track and Field: Men currently ranked 1 and women 2 in national rankings. Men and women won national outdoor championships in 2009. Women have won every Big XII conference title since 2007 (indoor/outdoor).

[dragons08]

Why sure, I'll do A&M:

A&M Men's Basketball: T3 in the Big XII standings, NCAA 4 seed, 2nd round, 5th straight NCAA trip, winner of at least 1 NCAA game in each trip, top 25 finish

A&M Women's Basketball: T4 in Big XII standings, won Big XII tourney, NCAA 2nd round, top 25 finish

A&M Baseball: We'll miss the tournament this year for the first time in 3 years. Sucks.

A&M Track and Field: Men currently ranked 1 and women 2 in national rankings. Men and women won national outdoor championships in 2009. Women have won every Big XII conference title since 2007 (indoor/outdoor).

What about golf, tennis, softball, and football?

[Firebird]

What about golf, tennis, softball, and football?

Golf: A&M is the defending men's and women's NCAA national champions. The women won the Big XII this year and the men finished 2nd to OSU.

Tennis: I honestly have no idea. Wikipedia says A&M has several conference championships and Tech has 0 if that is any indicator.

Softball: A&M has not missed the NCAA tourney since 2002. Won the conference in 05 and 08. Currently 4th (ahead of TTU).

Football: We all know football results. Only one of our schools has ever even represented the Big XII South in the CCG, let alone win the title.

[Dawg Fan]

Golf: A&M is the defending men's and women's NCAA national champions. The women won the Big XII this year and the men finished 2nd to OSU.

Tennis: I honestly have no idea. Wikipedia says A&M has several conference championships and Tech has 0 if that is any indicator.

Softball: A&M has not missed the NCAA tourney since 2002. Won the conference in 05 and 08. Currently 4th (ahead of TTU).

Football: We all know football results. Only one of our schools has ever even represented the Big XII South in the CCG, let alone win the title.

talk about your all time backfires;)

[dragons08]

talk about your all time backfires;)

Actually no, I was just curious, so curious in fact you should check out my next thread I will be posting shortly.

[lonny23]

My hat is off to the Aggies for what they've done lately in sports. The 'horns have been good for quite a while. Nobody who is being honest and objective can say Tech sports are garbage.

We're not great at every sport, but we've been ranked this year in quite a few. You saw what I said. We've been ranked in football, softball, track, golf, tennis, and cross country this year off the top of my head.

Baseball was garbage the last few years under Larry Hays. Dan Spencer took his lumps last year, but Tech came on at the end of the year. Even through the injuries, we've moved up through the standings this year and are in a solid position for a good seed in baseball.

Softball was garbage just a short time ago and now they're ranked.

Women's Basketball isn't where we want it, but they were better this year.

Pat Knight's crew was better this year than last year.

The track program is good every year now and we have good cross country programs.

Tennis and golf do some damage now and I like that.

Tech just needs to get the soccer team on the road to improvement.

[Dawg Fan]

Actually no, I was just curious, so curious in fact you should check out my next thread I will be posting shortly.

fair enough, just giving you a hard time;)

[farmerfan]

My hat is off to the Aggies for what they've done lately in sports. The 'horns have been good for quite a while. Nobody who is being honest and objective can say Tech sports are garbage.

We're not great at every sport, but we've been ranked this year in quite a few. You saw what I said. We've been ranked in football, softball, track, golf, tennis, and cross country this year off the top of my head.

Baseball was garbage the last few years under Larry Hays. Dan Spencer took his lumps last year, but Tech came on at the end of the year. Even through the injuries, we've moved up through the standings this year and are in a solid position for a good seed in baseball.

Softball was garbage just a short time ago and now they're ranked.

Women's Basketball isn't where we want it, but they were better this year.

Pat Knight's crew was better this year than last year.

The track program is good every year now and we have good cross country programs.

Tennis and golf do some damage now and I like that.

Tech just needs to get the soccer team on the road to improvement.

Nobody said they were "garbage" but average they are and being average really doesn't get you in a lot of places. That is why if major expansion were to happen taking Tech isn't as logical ofa choice as you think.

Baseball still isn't that great at all. getting a 2-3 seed in a regional is not impressive. That means you will most likely be done after the first weekend. Get to a super and do something. You have no shot at winning the conference there. Track has come on but once again others in the conference have shined brighter. So while you think "improvement" is happening, others prgorams who are alreayd where you want to be are also getting better. As long as Pat Henry is at A&M he will most likely own the Big 12 in track. His record at LSU speaks for itself there

[dragons08]

Nobody said they were "garbage" but average they are and being average really doesn't get you in a lot of places. That is why if major expansion were to happen taking Tech isn't as logical ofa choice as you think.

Baseball still isn't that great at all. getting a 2-3 seed in a regional is not impressive. That means you will most likely be done after the first weekend. Get to a super and do something. You have no shot at winning the conference there. Track has come on but once again others in the conference have shined brighter. So while you think "improvement" is happening, others prgorams who are alreayd where you want to be are also getting better. As long as Pat Henry is at A&M he will most likely own the Big 12 in track. His record at LSU speaks for itself there
I thought about comparing Georiga in their conference to Tech just to spite you.

[pied]

In all this conversation, why are you guys leaving tu out?

[F18mustang]

Nobody said they were "garbage" but average they are and being average really doesn't get you in a lot of places. That is why if major expansion were to happen taking Tech isn't as logical ofa choice as you think.

Baseball still isn't that great at all. getting a 2-3 seed in a regional is not impressive. That means you will most likely be done after the first weekend. Get to a super and do something. You have no shot at winning the conference there. Track has come on but once again others in the conference have shined brighter. So while you think "improvement" is happening, others prgorams who are alreayd where you want to be are also getting better. As long as Pat Henry is at A&M he will most likely own the Big 12 in track. His record at LSU speaks for itself there

Its a noticeable improvement. Were competing in every sport now, sure we might not beat Aggy or UT, but hell, this is better than having a losing record and living in the basement.

I love how we talk about our Athletic Dept. improving and you and others are so quick to argue when you don't even see it firsthand. Keep in mind that we weren't bragging by any means, just reflecting on the accomplishments of our athletic department this year compared to last.

Is the notion of Tech Athletics on the rise too much for some to handle?

[farmerfan]

I thought about comparing Georiga in their conference to Tech just to spite you.

Go for it man. Would love to see the numbers from the SEC. Based on where Georgia typically finishes in the directors cup I would say they do pretty good in the SEC. Far from the most dominant but they are consistently pretty good, better than Tech thats for sure and definitely better than UNT :)

[farmerfan]

Its a noticeable improvement. Were competing in every sport now, sure we might not beat Aggy or UT, but hell, this is better than having a losing record and living in the basement.

I love how we talk about our Athletic Dept. improving and you and others are so quick to argue when you don't even see it firsthand. Keep in mind that we weren't bragging by any means, just reflecting on the accomplishments of our athletic department this year compared to last.

Is the notion of Tech Athletics on the rise too much for some to handle?

All we are saying is finishing in 4-12th place really isn't an accomplishment. Finishing in an average spot of 7th is definitely not something to cite as an accomplishment. Nobody is insulting the Tech athletic department they are just saying that it really isnt that great and if conference expansion were to happen they are far far from being a logical choice to go anywhere. If that hurts I am sorry. Sometimes the facts suck and we all have to deal with them.

Also while Tech might be improving, I do not see the others taking a step back so while they may be getting better athletes and what not I really do not see places like Okie Lite, Texas, Nebraska and the Ags or OU going backwards themselves.

[F18mustang]

All we are saying is finishing in 4-12th place really isn't an accomplishment. Finishing in an average spot of 7th is definitely not something to cite as an accomplishment. Nobody is insulting the Tech athletic department they are just saying that it really isnt that great and if conference expansion were to happen they are far far from being a logical choice to go anywhere. If that hurts I am sorry. Sometimes the facts suck and we all have to deal with them.

Also while Tech might be improving, I do not see the others taking a step back so while they may be getting better athletes and what not I really do not see places like Okie Lite, Texas, Nebraska and the Ags or OU going backwards themselves.

None of us said that our athletic achievements were great. I just happy as hell that we aren't in the cellar in 2010, let us have that at least. I guess you'd have to be a Tech fan to understand because it seems too much of a personal concept for others to comprehend.

Its a good feeling to pick up the Daily Toreador every morning and read about our Softball team sweeping Kansas and our Baseball team taking 2 of 3 from 11th ranked OU. Its good to read about the accomplishments of our 13th ranked Mens Tennis team or the Tech Golfer who won a conference championship last week. Last year there wasn't much of that to talk about. While we aren't on the level of the OU, aggy and UT Athletics, I'm happy to see us competing so well in 2010. Thats all I'm saying. Everyone loves winning, including the trailer trash Sand Aggies.

And if you feel its just me, D08, and Lonny "bragging", check again:

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=188&f=1650&t=5901106

[pied]

And if you feel its just me, D08, and Lonny "bragging", check again:

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=188&f=1650&t=5901106

Good point, you need to add SCRedRaider from RaiderPower to that list.

[farmerfan]

None of us said that our athletic achievements were great. I just happy as hell that we aren't in the cellar in 2010, let us have that at least. I guess you'd have to be a Tech fan to understand because it seems too much of a personal concept for others to comprehend.

Its a good feeling to pick up the Daily Toreador every morning and read about our Softball team sweeping Kansas and our Baseball team taking 2 of 3 from 11th ranked OU. Its good to read about the accomplishments of our 13th ranked Mens Tennis team or the Tech Golfer who won a conference championship last week. Last year there wasn't much of that to talk about. While we aren't on the level of the OU, aggy and UT Athletics, I'm happy to see us competing so well in 2010. Thats all I'm saying. Everyone loves winning, including the trailer trash Sand Aggies.

And if you feel its just me, D08, and Lonny "bragging", check again:

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=188&f=1650&t=5901106

Which is fine and dandy. Nobody is sayinjg its wrong to be proud of your team or programs or excited about them or where you think they might be going. But in the light of this conversation and talking about what schools have to offer in expansion, it was simply pointed out that Tech doesn't have as much to offer as some might think. If expansion were to happen today it wouldnt shock me one bit if Tech was left out when it came to the Texas schools and be left looking for something else. Tech in the grand scheme of things doesn't even offer considerably more than Houston when you look at the two programs and compare them and then ask, why should we take Tech again?
That is all that is said. If in 5 years the Tech athletic programs have found their way into the top 1-3 consistenlty in this conference then I am sure others will change their tone. That is all I am saying and pointing out. Is that based on what they have to offer I would not take Texas Tech in a conference expansion. Especially not over Stanford like somebody else suggested

[dragons08]

Which is fine and dandy. Nobody is sayinjg its wrong to be proud of your team or programs or excited about them or where you think they might be going. But in the light of this conversation and talking about what schools have to offer in expansion, it was simply pointed out that Tech doesn't have as much to offer as some might think. If expansion were to happen today it wouldnt shock me one bit if Tech was left out when it came to the Texas schools and be left looking for something else. Tech in the grand scheme of things doesn't even offer considerably more than Houston when you look at the two programs and compare them and then ask, why should we take Tech again?
That is all that is said. If in 5 years the Tech athletic programs have found their way into the top 1-3 consistenlty in this conference then I am sure others will change their tone. That is all I am saying and pointing out. Is that based on what they have to offer I would not take Texas Tech in a conference expansion. Especially not over Stanford like somebody else suggested
Conference expansion includes academics. With Tech on the verge of Tier One status and even the UT president acknowledging that we are indeed an upcoming big time school, even saying any type of moving conferences would involve Tech in a bundle deal.

Again, we are not bragging about our athletic program, we are simply stating that we are slowly improving and becoming a school that will hopefully, eventually, have national recognition. As long as our boosters continue to up the amount of money they donate, our programs can continue to grow. We are currently in the process of upgrading many of our facilities. With facilities ranking in the upper half of our conference, this will only allow us to get better recruits and have more people want to attend Tech.

If you frequent Raider Power, you can tell many people are now getting angry with mediocrity. We EXPECT to be winners. So instead of accepting a slightly above .500 record, we demand to be competing with UT, OU, Aggy, etc year in and year out. By raising our expectations we as fans will do more to support our team be it monetary value, or vocal support, good or bad.

No we are by no means a powerhouse, but Tech has a VERY good chance of becoming a fine institution not only in academics, but as well as athletics. I'm proud to be a Red Raider and being apart of the growth of this university.

[farmerfan]

Conference expansion includes academics. With Tech on the verge of Tier One status and even the UT president acknowledging that we are indeed an upcoming big time school, even saying any type of moving conferences would involve Tech in a bundle deal.

Again, we are not bragging about our athletic program, we are simply stating that we are slowly improving and becoming a school that will hopefully, eventually, have national recognition. As long as our boosters continue to up the amount of money they donate, our programs can continue to grow. We are currently in the process of upgrading many of our facilities. With facilities ranking in the upper half of our conference, this will only allow us to get better recruits and have more people want to attend Tech.

If you frequent Raider Power, you can tell many people are now getting angry with mediocrity. We EXPECT to be winners. So instead of accepting a slightly above .500 record, we demand to be competing with UT, OU, Aggy, etc year in and year out. By raising our expectations we as fans will do more to support our team be it monetary value, or vocal support, good or bad.

No we are by no means a powerhouse, but Tech has a VERY good chance of becoming a fine institution not only in academics, but as well as athletics. I'm proud to be a Red Raider and being apart of the growth of this university.

Which if all that comes to be true in the future it would make sense for Tech to be included in talks of expansion along with Texas and A&M. But as it stands right now, they do not belong in such talks when you look at the overall product.

The arms race with what Tech is doing is great too but don't for one second think that is not going on at the schools that are already above you all and those that are even with you or even behind you. The facilities race is nice and all but it is starting to get to a point where just about every place has upgraded their facilities and that too will not become as big of a factor as one may think.

You should be proud of your school and what they are doing and have every right to be excited but at the same time until you all get to the level you want to be at expect to hear some doubters come out and say the things that I have said.

Keep getting better and if you all prove me or any other doubter wrong come back and bring this thread up or as you know laugh at me when we hang out. Hell if I am proven wrong on this in the next couple years Ill buy you a keg for Christmas after you turn 21:)

[dragons08]

Which if all that comes to be true in the future it would make sense for Tech to be included in talks of expansion along with Texas and A&M. But as it stands right now, they do not belong in such talks when you look at the overall product.

The arms race with what Tech is doing is great too but don't for one second think that is not going on at the schools that are already above you all and those that are even with you or even behind you. The facilities race is nice and all but it is starting to get to a point where just about every place has upgraded their facilities and that too will not become as big of a factor as one may think.

You should be proud of your school and what they are doing and have every right to be excited but at the same time until you all get to the level you want to be at expect to hear some doubters come out and say the things that I have said.

Keep getting better and if you all prove me or any other doubter wrong come back and bring this thread up or as you know laugh at me when we hang out. Hell if I am proven wrong on this in the next couple years Ill buy you a keg for Christmas after you turn 21:)
This is why we are friends.

[Favpack]

Its a noticeable improvement. Were competing in every sport now, sure we might not beat Aggy or UT, but hell, this is better than having a losing record and living in the basement.

I love how we talk about our Athletic Dept. improving and you and others are so quick to argue when you don't even see it firsthand. Keep in mind that we weren't bragging by any means, just reflecting on the accomplishments of our athletic department this year compared to last.

Is the notion of Tech Athletics on the rise too much for some to handle?

I'd really like to see Gerald retire - and hire a young gun (not literally) - that would be nice.

[F18mustang]

I'd really like to see Gerald retire - and hire a young gun (not literally) - that would be nice.

He has made some good hires, but thats where it stops with Myers. Everyone in Lubbock wants him gone. We will see when his contract expires later this year. He needs to retire for his and everyones sanity.

[lonny23]

All we are saying is finishing in 4-12th place really isn't an accomplishment. Finishing in an average spot of 7th is definitely not something to cite as an accomplishment. Nobody is insulting the Tech athletic department they are just saying that it really isnt that great and if conference expansion were to happen they are far far from being a logical choice to go anywhere. If that hurts I am sorry. Sometimes the facts suck and we all have to deal with them.

Also while Tech might be improving, I do not see the others taking a step back so while they may be getting better athletes and what not I really do not see places like Okie Lite, Texas, Nebraska and the Ags or OU going backwards themselves.
You missed my main point when I spoke about golf. Tech had the individual medalist in the Big 12 and I felt like I should say where the team was because I figured the question would be asked.

As far as track goes, yeah Tech might have to settle for #2 in the Big 12 because that's where they are now.

[lonny23]

Which is fine and dandy. Nobody is sayinjg its wrong to be proud of your team or programs or excited about them or where you think they might be going. But in the light of this conversation and talking about what schools have to offer in expansion, it was simply pointed out that Tech doesn't have as much to offer as some might think. If expansion were to happen today it wouldnt shock me one bit if Tech was left out when it came to the Texas schools and be left looking for something else. Tech in the grand scheme of things doesn't even offer considerably more than Houston when you look at the two programs and compare them and then ask, why should we take Tech again?
That is all that is said. If in 5 years the Tech athletic programs have found their way into the top 1-3 consistenlty in this conference then I am sure others will change their tone. That is all I am saying and pointing out. Is that based on what they have to offer I would not take Texas Tech in a conference expansion. Especially not over Stanford like somebody else suggestedIn the grand scheme of things, I don't think the ancillary sports mean a hill of beans when it comes to what football does. I think we'll have our football leagues and everybody else can go their own way in the other sports. I don't think football super leagues are the end of the conferences because teams already play out of multiple conferences in various sports.

Just look at college hockey. I was a season ticket holder for Alaska-Anchorage in hockey. They're a D2 team, except they play D1 hockey in the best conference in the nation (WCHA-Western Collegiate Hockey Association). As of next year, their conference will also include these lightweights in various sports:

Minnesota-Duluth
Minnesota State
St. Cloud State
Nebraska-Omaha
North Dakota
Michigan Tech
Bemidji State
Denver
Colorado College

The conference also includes these Big 10 teams:

Minnesota
Wisconsin

The CCHA has these Big 10 teams among their lightweights:

Michigan
Michigan State
Ohio State

and Notre Dame

[lonny23]

He has made some good hires, but thats where it stops with Myers. Everyone in Lubbock wants him gone. We will see when his contract expires later this year. He needs to retire for his and everyones sanity.
GM's saving grace right now is he has hit a bunch of home runs lately with coaching hires.

[Firebird]

Golf and tennis are on the upswing, too.

Tech will probably finish 2nd in baseball and that's with a bunch of pitching injuries.

We're not bad at cross country, either.

Tech plays in the high rent district and would be a huge fish in some conferences.

Just thought I would revisit this thread after the 4 seed Aggies (36 wins) knocked 5 seed Texas Tech (27 wins) out of the Big XII tourney today.

[farmerfan]

Just thought I would revisit this thread after the 4 seed Aggies (36 wins) knocked 5 seed Texas Tech (27 wins) out of the Big XII tourney today.

:yes::yes::yes:

Does 5 = 2?

Maybe if you turn the 5 upsides down. Neh nevermind lol

[F18mustang]

Just thought I would revisit this thread after the 4 seed Aggies (36 wins) knocked 5 seed Texas Tech (27 wins) out of the Big XII tourney today.

Nobody is knocked out yet. Its pool play. :rolleyes:

[Firebird]

Nobody is knocked out yet. Its pool play. :rolleyes:


Ah, we aren't there yet. My bad, I haven't been keeping up close enough with baseball except to note that 5 =/= 2.

[yankee]

Tech will probably finish 2nd in baseball and that's with a bunch of pitching injuries.



OU says hai. :)

http://i50.tinypic.com/2igy7nl.jpg

[F18mustang]

Hey, its better than being picked preseason dead last in the conference. :)

[farmerfan]

OU says hai. :)

http://i50.tinypic.com/2igy7nl.jpg

So, If I am reading that right, then Tech not only finished in 5th which isn't 2nd but they had below a .500 record in conference and are they currently below .500 overall?

Sorry F18 and D08 but Lonny makes this too much fun sometimes.

[pied]

Texas set the all time Big 12 conference record for regular season wins at 24. The previous record was 23 shared by several teams when there were three more games each season(Iowa State dropped baseball in '03).

[farmerfan]

Texas set the all time Big 12 conference record for regular season wins at 24. The previous record was 23 shared by several teams when there were three more games each season(Iowa State dropped baseball in '03).

Looking at the chart yankee posted, A&M and UT enjoyed a lot of home games this year. I am sure the facilties they both have along with the reputation of both brings teams in prior to conference and mid week.

[farmerfan]

Also am impressed with quite a few things.

FIrst off the record Texas has piled up this year. Dang they look good.

Was alos impressed with OU's 15-6 record on the road. That could bode well for them if they have to go on the road for a Super since they have clearly shown they can win on the road. Texas also put up a nice road record when they hit it.

[JagFan]

So, If I am reading that right, then Tech not only finished in 5th which isn't 2nd but they had below a .500 record in conference and are they currently below .500 overall?

Sorry F18 and D08 but Lonny makes this too much fun sometimes.

cough cough are they your only Tech friends????;)

[farmerfan]

cough cough are they your only Tech friends????;)

No ma'am.

My apologies to you and Slorch and JBT as well :)

[JagFan]

No ma'am.

My apologies to you and Slorch and JBT as well :)

Thank you. :) Carry on now.

[lonny23]

Just thought I would revisit this thread after the 4 seed Aggies (36 wins) knocked 5 seed Texas Tech (27 wins) out of the Big XII tourney today.
I've gone to great lengths to discuss the bad luck that Tech has undergone in baseball, but since you want to take a shot, I've got a piece of advice for you. Know what you're talking about next time. Each team plays 3 games.

Better luck next time!

[lonny23]

Ah, we aren't there yet. My bad, I haven't been keeping up close enough with baseball except to note that 5 =/= 2.
No, the problem is you're a semi-troll that jumps the gun trying to make me look bad and often end up making yourself look bad.

[farmerfan]

I've gone to great lengths to discuss the bad luck that Tech has undergone in baseball, but since you want to take a shot, I've got a piece of advice for you. Know what you're talking about next time. Each team plays 3 games.

Better luck next time!

Which is apart of the game and why some people tried warning you not to get to carried away with where Tech stood back in April. Lots of things can and do happen in baseball. Its a very fickle/funny game

[F18mustang]

Which is apart of the game and why some people tried warning you not to get to carried away with where Tech stood back in April. Lots of things can and do happen in baseball. Its a very fickle/funny game

Yeah, but no one could have seen those ejections coming. I think it magnified this end-of-season breakdown.

[farmerfan]

Yeah, but no one could have seen those ejections coming. I think it magnified this end-of-season breakdown.

You never forecast for somethign like that, however, when you are only up in the standings by a game or so with roughly half your league games left then dont be bragging about being in second. In baseball you can drop from 2nd to 5th in a matter of a weekend when the race is so tight.

[Mr. Buddy Garrity]

No, the problem is you're a semi-troll that jumps the gun trying to make me look bad and often end up making yourself look bad.

Lonny how's wichita Falls? imma be in abilene soon.

[F18mustang]

It would seem that our demise is greatly exaggerated.

[yankee]

It would seem that our demise is greatly exaggerated.

lulz.


i guess texass decided to not show up. chokers. :rolleyes:


already out of the tourney...

[dragons08]

You never forecast for somethign like that, however, when you are only up in the standings by a game or so with roughly half your league games left then dont be bragging about being in second. In baseball you can drop from 2nd to 5th in a matter of a weekend when the race is so tight.

We were actually in 4th I believe when Lonny proclaimed we'd make it to 2nd, we then we're in 2nd for a few weekends, then had major meltdowns against Baylor and Nebraska the last 2 weekends. So we cam close, just couldn't win the games we had too.

We did however beat UT today.

[farmerfan]

We were actually in 4th I believe when Lonny proclaimed we'd make it to 2nd, we then we're in 2nd for a few weekends, then had major meltdowns against Baylor and Nebraska the last 2 weekends. So we cam close, just couldn't win the games we had too.

We did however beat UT today.

Moral victories are not allowed sir. It isn't even certain you are going to get to a regional. The win over UT is nice but Tech might need to win the tourney to secure a regional bid.

[dragons08]

Moral victories are not allowed sir. It isn't even certain you are going to get to a regional. The win over UT is nice but Tech might need to win the tourney to secure a regional bid.

I'm not claiming a moral victory, I'm just saying we had a meltdown. We we're obviously a pretty good team going into the final 2 weekends, and then went 1-5 the last 6 games against the bottom feeders. So either we lost focus, or have been playing over our heads.

It was nice to beat Texas, but we have to maintain that good play from yesterday's game and keep it going forward and most likely like you said, win out.