Steel Curtain 2-4-5 and 1-5-5

[KT2000]

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2009/9/21/1047264/the-2-4-5-and-1-5-5-revealed

I stumbled upon this interesting blog entry when doing some reading about defense, and what better to analyze than Dick LeBeau's Steelers. Some of the information is pretty basic, but it gets in depth and does a good job of outlining what the Steeler's highly evolved base 3-4 is all about. Disguise takes on a whole new meaning in these alignments. The offense has no idea who is attacking which gaps or dropping into coverage.

At the high school level, Abilene won state last year by using similar principles. They were the only team I saw that lined up with only one or two players with a hand on the ground and everyone else off the ball. Abilene finished the season as the state's top adjusted scoring defense in 2009.

[da hawaiian]

Outstanding find KT2K. I loved it's description of the 3-4 nickel and his explanation of the smoke and mirrors involved in the various alignments. I've never had the 3-4 nickel explained with such clarity, just a jem of a writeup. It really points to the value of having flexible hybrid types on your defense. Certainly one of the challenges must be getting the right personell packages on the field.

And although I don't believe I've seen anyone as exotic as Abiliene was with 0 guys in a 3pt stance, the audacity to dare an Oline to process and base block 2nd level was maybe a crittical wrinkle in Abelines mad scientist approach. I'd love to get my hand on that gamefilm to see how and when they decided to line up that way

Regardless, flexible schemes and flexible players is the current stamp of defensive greatness. Just another example of how attack minded defensive coordinators are ever evolving our favorite game.

[KT2000]

Amorphous defense is the way of the future. I wish we got wider tv angles to rfeally appreciate this kind of strategy. I love watching wide angle tape in the fall at the community film sessions. I used to stay in the field house during lunch and watch tape back in hs.

[twcpfan1]

Ok I need clarification

2 - 4 - 5 Do they start counting from the front or the back?

What about in basketball. When they say 2 - 3 zone. Who's up high, i.e. further away from the cup, 2 or 3?

[The King]

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2009/9/21/1047264/the-2-4-5-and-1-5-5-revealed

I stumbled upon this interesting blog entry when doing some reading about defense, and what better to analyze than Dick LeBeau's Steelers. Some of the information is pretty basic, but it gets in depth and does a good job of outlining what the Steeler's highly evolved base 3-4 is all about. Disguise takes on a whole new meaning in these alignments. The offense has no idea who is attacking which gaps or dropping into coverage.

At the high school level, Abilene won state last year by using similar principles. They were the only team I saw that lined up with only one or two players with a hand on the ground and everyone else off the ball. Abilene finished the season as the state's top adjusted scoring defense in 2009.

Like the O Abilene ran I think a Wildcat, this works great when you have the right personel. I think the Offense and Defense they ran can be fun to watch in a ballgame, but I like being high up so I can see the play developement. Hard to see down low or with a narrow veiw. end zone cams would be good for this.

[KT2000]

Ok I need clarification

2 - 4 - 5 Do they start counting from the front or the back?

What about in basketball. When they say 2 - 3 zone. Who's up high, i.e. further away from the cup, 2 or 3?

It counts from the front (DL) in football. In basketball, it starts with the backcourt. The two in 2-3 would be the guards.

[twcpfan1]

It counts from the front (DL) in football. In basketball, it starts with the backcourt. The two in 2-3 would be the guards.

Thanks

[da hawaiian]

Outstanding find KT2K. I loved it's description of the 3-4 nickel and his explanation of the smoke and mirrors involved in the various alignments. I've never had the 3-4 nickel explained with such clarity, just a jem of a writeup. It really points to the value of having flexible hybrid types on your defense. Certainly one of the challenges must be getting the right personell packages on the field.

And although I don't believe I've seen anyone as exotic as Abiliene was with 0 guys in a 3pt stance, the audacity to dare an Oline to process and base block 2nd level was maybe a crittical wrinkle in Abelines mad scientist approach. I'd love to get my hand on that gamefilm to see how and when they decided to line up that way

Regardless, flexible schemes and flexible players is the current stamp of defensive greatness. Just another example of how attack minded defensive coordinators are ever evolving our favorite game.

I meant 2pt stance

[da hawaiian]

I was in hurry when I caught a short glimpse of the Katy Abilene game on TV. I swear I watched 2 or 3 plays in a row where Abiline on defense lined up 0 guys with a hand down. Was this correct or was there atleast 1 or 2 with hands down?

[KT2000]

I was in hurry when I caught a short glimpse of the Katy Abilene game on TV. I swear I watched 2 or 3 plays in a row where Abiline on defense lined up 0 guys with a hand down. Was this correct or was there atleast 1 or 2 with hands down?

They appeared to have at least one or two players with a hand down on most plays. I'll have to watch it back.

[da hawaiian]

KT2K

Anychance you and I could do a tape swap?

[KT2000]

I had to chuckle a bit during the draft when a couple of the talking heads were expressing surprise at the Steelers using three picks on linebackers (all of which are hybrid types).

They must not watch as much tape as they'd have us believe.

[da hawaiian]

It's too bad they didn't get Suh. Can you imagine the flexibility a player like Suh gives a defense? I bet any kind of money you could slide him out on the slot :eek:

[da hawaiian]

My nephew who plays for Richland (many times removed) finally got me film of their game against Abilene, and I confirm what KT2000 said about abilene, they line up atleast one guy in a 3pt stance.

Things I notice. HS offensive lineman struggle base blocking players who don't have a hand down. Ofcourse the logical counter against this is a downhill running play. Abilene counters this by dictating the first step of both ILB's is towards the LOS. If you're a fan of Trinity, our ILB's first step is away, obviously this Abilene's answer to power plays...still I think there is room to exploit here.

Until offenses get used to seeing this alignment it could be a handy wrinkle. Not only is the benefit more speed to counter the multiple reciever formation and pressure the QB, but being in a radar stance (old school term) allows the defender to read the backfield instead of the OL, and to identify earlier when to get hands into the air.

I believe a very talented Oline such as Allen would have been lethal against this defense last year.

[da hawaiian]

Maybe lethal is too strong a word, I'll modify to Very Effective instead.

[da hawaiian]

My nephew who plays for Richland (many times removed) finally got me film of their game against Abilene, and I confirm what KT2000 said about abilene, they line up atleast one guy in a 3pt stance.

Things I notice. HS offensive lineman struggle base blocking players who don't have a hand down. Ofcourse the logical counter against this is a downhill running play. Abilene counters this by dictating the first step of both ILB's is towards the LOS. If you're a fan of Trinity, our ILB's first step is away, obviously this Abilene's answer to power plays...still I think there is room to exploit here.

Until offenses get used to seeing this alignment it could be a handy wrinkle. Not only is the benefit more speed to counter the multiple reciever formation and pressure the QB, but being in a radar stance (old school term) allows the defender to read the backfield instead of the OL, and to identify earlier when to get hands into the air.

I believe a very talented Oline such as Allen would have been lethal against this defense last year.

FF brings up a valid point in another thread at how foolish this is, and I agree :o

[E-Vol-ution]

I had to chuckle a bit during the draft when a couple of the talking heads were expressing surprise at the Steelers using three picks on linebackers (all of which are hybrid types).

They must not watch as much tape as they'd have us believe.

I was in awe seeing 300 lb guys drop back in coverage.........The Steelers are the first team I saw do it.

[bowiedawgs01]

Lining up with everyone standign up is referred to as the "Creep" defense, isn't it?

[Warbird]

From what I can tell, this is a wrinkle that Fullen added this year. In the past it wasn't surprising to see one of our DEs in a standup position, but this was too wild. :notworthy It blows my mind that this defense full of small, underpowered guys could halt Cedar Hill. Great teamwork, great coaching.

[KT2000]

Lining up with everyone standign up is referred to as the "Creep" defense, isn't it?

I've heard it called the radar defense, but who knows what else it may be called.

Attacking this defense is a foreign concept for most offenses today because there aren't many under center based running teams left. I've had an offline conversation with hawaiian on the defense, and we both agreed a steady dose of wedge blocking would be in order against such an alignment. However, how many true power lines are there these days? Not many. I think it is a great concept to use against today's spread teams.

[BlakeJ]

I could read articles like that alllll day long. I hardly respond in The Film Room threads, but it's probably my favorite place to hang out.

Learned a ton load since floating onto the 5a board. Thanks KT2K

[Warbird]

They appeared to have at least one or two players with a hand down on most plays. I'll have to watch it back.

You can see that D in this film here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA1I72eDJPo

Look at 2:45. The real advantage of having your guys up in a two point stance and off the ball comes from the fact that they can make their reads much more easily and it's very hard to down- or drive-block them. At that point in the vid, only Josh Brooks has his hand in the turf. The play is a delayed draw, but the DL is so far off the ball that they aren't fooled for one instant. Crain (#60), and Carriola (#41) If they were close in and charging off the ball, it would've likely been a good play.

[KT2000]

You can see that D in this film here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA1I72eDJPo

Look at 2:45. The real advantage of having your guys up in a two point stance and off the ball comes from the fact that they can make their reads much more easily and it's very hard to down- or drive-block them. At that point in the vid, only Josh Brooks has his hand in the turf. The play is a delayed draw, but the DL is so far off the ball that they aren't fooled for one instant. Crain (#60), and Carriola (#41) If they were close in and charging off the ball, it would've likely been a good play.

I was confused quite a bit in the last few weeks of the season from a Katy perspective. That play illustrates Katy's execution at the end last year perfectly and also shows the benefits of Abilene's scheme against zone blocking. The radar defense is made for stuff like that.