New NCAA coach-in-waiting recruiting rule

[Trinity Alum]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/highschools/topstories/stories/021010dnsporecruitrule.104212e3f.html

Thoughts?

[chhspantherfan]

it's a plot by the coaches-in-waiting to have that tag removed so they can solicit more $$$$ as CoOrdinators and Recruiters;)

[pied]

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me as to why they would pass this. The CIW, seemingly solves a common problem. Players commit and then the HC leaves. I can almost understand why opposing teams may want this, but it seems a bit petty.

[Firebird]

lolz.

[pied]

I smell a grandfather clause.

[TulsaHale74]

I think all Texas assistant coaches should be considered coach-in-waiting.;)

[pied]

Mack responds:


http://kznx-am.tritondigitalmedia.com/includes/news_items/6/626

[pied]

Saw this question on another board.

How does this affect Florida? Their coach resigned, and they named his replacement. Now the HC is still hanging around.

Curious if anyone here actually supports the rule and the reasoning. (besides the fact it might hurt the sips) I don't see the real point.

[yallerjacket2]

Saw this question on another board.

How does this affect Florida? Their coach resigned, and they named his replacement. Now the HC is still hanging around.

Curious if anyone here actually supports the rule and the reasoning. (besides the fact it might hurt the sips) I don't see the real point.

I don't see the point either. Stupid.

[SLC]

Mack responds:


http://kznx-am.tritondigitalmedia.com/includes/news_items/6/626



LMFAO......:laugh:laugh:notworthy

[SLC]

Saw this question on another board.

How does this affect Florida? Their coach resigned, and they named his replacement. Now the HC is still hanging around.

Curious if anyone here actually supports the rule and the reasoning. (besides the fact it might hurt the sips) I don't see the real point.


It's a ridiculous rule. Period. A HCIW is NOT a head coach.

It's just some stupid rule brought about by some cry babies who find themselves out gunned by a bad a$$ coach and tenacious recruiter.

Honestly, you just combat it by removing the title of HCIW and go to an unspoken/unwritten agreement.

[pied]

It's a ridiculous rule. Period. A HCIW is NOT a head coach.

It's just some stupid rule brought about by some cry babies who find themselves out gunned by a bad a$$ coach and tenacious recruiter.

Honestly, you just combat it by removing the title of HCIW and go to an unspoken/unwritten agreement.

To be fair, it was started by the Big East Conference, not anyone around here. The only ones affected by it today are Texas and Maryland.

[TulsaHale74]

[deep breath]

I'll play devils advocate.

Do Texas fans thinking naming Muschamp a HCIW gives them an upper hand in the recruiting process?

Do other Big 12 schools think naming Muschamp HCIW gives Texas a recruiting advantage?

[pied]

[deep breath]

I'll play devils advocate.

Do Texas fans thinking naming Muschamp a HCIW gives them an upper hand in the recruiting process?

Do other Big 12 schools think naming Muschamp HCIW gives Texas a recruiting advantage?

Yes to some degree. If it were that much of an advantage, I'd suspect many more schools than two would have done so.

How many recruiting advantages aer not copied by everyone else?

[SLC]

[deep breath]

I'll play devils advocate.

Do Texas fans thinking naming Muschamp a HCIW gives them an upper hand in the recruiting process?

Do other Big 12 schools think naming Muschamp HCIW gives Texas a recruiting advantage?


I do think it does somewhat. Reason being is kids typically want to know what the current coaching situation is before they commit. Now, Mack has been successful in recruiting by doing it his way, the kids obviously know that there is a HCIW scenario at Texas, so they know that if Mack retires there is an excellent replacement already on staff. I would think that would give them a sense of relief in that it's one less thing for them to be concerned about when considering Texas over other schools.

[TulsaHale74]

More questions.

Is the HCIW label by Texas binding? Does Texas owe Muschamp compensation if they change their mind or if Brown stays too long?

While this may work for Texas is this a feasible situation for the majority of D1 FBS schools?

[Firebird]

I view this as an attempt, for once, for the NCAA to get out in front of problems rather than react.

Hypothetical situation-- Mack gets tired. Texas pays him a tidy nominal salary to remain as "head coach" and watch games from the Presidents box. He also makes a couple trips to recruits, shake parents hands and promise to take care of their boys, host junior days, etc and takes off all other football related duties. Meanwhile Will Muschamp gets paid 3 million a year to be the "assistant head coach/defensive coordinator/head coach in waiting" and performs all the duties that Mack used to as HC. Basically two HCs for recruiting.

You're kidding yourself if you don't think that Texas and other schools with the means and requisite legendary HC figure wouldn't hit upon this sort of solution. A school can only have one HC for recruiting purposes. This is a way to ensure that schools are stay in line with the spirit of the rule.

[svhorns]

I view this as an attempt, for once, for the NCAA to get out in front of problems rather than react.

Hypothetical situation-- Mack gets tired. Texas pays him a tidy nominal salary to remain as "head coach" and watch games from the Presidents box. He also makes a couple trips to recruits, shake parents hands and promise to take care of their boys, host junior days, etc and takes off all other football related duties. Meanwhile Will Muschamp gets paid 3 million a year to be the "assistant head coach/defensive coordinator/head coach in waiting" and performs all the duties that Mack used to as HC. Basically two HCs for recruiting.

You're kidding yourself if you don't think that Texas and other schools with the means and requisite legendary HC figure wouldn't hit upon this sort of solution. A school can only have one HC for recruiting purposes. This is a way to ensure that schools are stay in line with the spirit of the rule.

Dumb. So remove the title of "Head Coach in Waiting" and problem solved.

[Firebird]

Dumb. So remove the title of "Head Coach in Waiting" and problem solved.

Except that the title is important to the person who has it.

[pied]

I view this as an attempt, for once, for the NCAA to get out in front of problems rather than react.

Hypothetical situation-- Mack gets tired. Texas pays him a tidy nominal salary to remain as "head coach" and watch games from the Presidents box. He also makes a couple trips to recruits, shake parents hands and promise to take care of their boys, host junior days, etc and takes off all other football related duties. Meanwhile Will Muschamp gets paid 3 million a year to be the "assistant head coach/defensive coordinator/head coach in waiting" and performs all the duties that Mack used to as HC. Basically two HCs for recruiting.

You're kidding yourself if you don't think that Texas and other schools with the means and requisite legendary HC figure wouldn't hit upon this sort of solution. A school can only have one HC for recruiting purposes. This is a way to ensure that schools are stay in line with the spirit of the rule.

That might be the biggest bunch of wild speculation I've seen in awhile. These schools dont' suddenly have the means, they've always had the means. There are two schools currently in this situation, Texas and Maryland.

[Firebird]

That might be the biggest bunch of wild speculation I've seen in awhile. These schools dont' suddenly have the means, they've always had the means. There are two schools currently in this situation, Texas and Maryland.


Which is why the NCAA is trying to get out in front of the issue. You're kidding yourself if you don't see this potentially morphing into a school having, in effect, two head coaches, one of whom can recruit like an assistant. It's a new POTENTIAL problem that the NCAA is attempting to ward off at the pass.

[pied]

Which is why the NCAA is trying to get out in front of the issue. You're kidding yourself if you don't see this potentially morphing into a school having, in effect, two head coaches, one of whom can recruit like an assistant.

I have two case studies in Penn State and Florida State that tell me otherwise. The number of schools that could pay two head coaching salaries are extremely limited and the number that are paying them are zero. I would note that Muschamp has no buy out clause. If he leaves, he leaves and new school would be required to buy out nada.

[pied]

Another point of view:

So whatever on that specific complaint. Not a big deal. However, a question: Why is the NCAA killing these coach-in-waiting deals? Every offseason we see coaches jump ship for other jobs, leaving festive riots, disappointment, and jilted recruits in their wake. Then we get a tiresome tide of columns about it. This coach-in-waiting business was an innovation that allowed schools to keep important assistants around for a smooth transition of power, no riots involved.

Without it, Muschamp would be gone to Auburn or a half-dozen other schools. Franklin might be a head coach somewhere else, as well. The programs in question, both poacher and poachee, would face tense moments when they tried to get them back. If they managed it, there would be chaos at the previous school. Chaos spawns transfers and decommits and academic disruption that the NCAA is hypothetically against. Not to go all one-sentence paragraph on you, but a coach moving schools has a negative impact on the players that are hypothetically the NCAA's top priority, and the NCAA just chucked a small measure of stability out the window because a few other coaches complained that a coach-in-waiting might have an infinitesimal recruiting advantage.

http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/the_sporting_blog/entry/view/55556/why_does_the_ncaa_hate_will_muschamp_and_the_stabi lity_he_stands_for

[SLC]

Which is why the NCAA is trying to get out in front of the issue. You're kidding yourself if you don't see this potentially morphing into a school having, in effect, two head coaches, one of whom can recruit like an assistant. It's a new POTENTIAL problem that the NCAA is attempting to ward off at the pass.


Kidding ourselves about what?

The guy is a head coach in waiting. Thus he IS NOT a head coach. He is an assistant coach, nothing more, nothing less. An assistant.

[pied]

Which is why the NCAA is trying to get out in front of the issue. You're kidding yourself if you don't see this potentially morphing into a school having, in effect, two head coaches, one of whom can recruit like an assistant. It's a new POTENTIAL problem that the NCAA is attempting to ward off at the pass.

describe for me waht the key differences are between a head coach in waitnig and an Assistant Head Coach? Specfically to the advantages gained in recruiting.



COLLEGE STATION, Texas--Texas A&M Head Football Coach Mike Sherman announced today that Tim DeRuyter (pronounced da-ROOT-er) will be the new defensive coordinator and assistant head coach for the Aggie football team after the Texas A&M University System Board of Regents met in session and approved the hiring and terms of the contract earlier today.

http://www.aggieathletics.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/012110aad.html

[TulsaHale74]

describe for me waht the key differences are between a head coach in waitnig and an Assistant Head Coach? Specfically to the advantages gained in recruiting.
I think there is a big difference to the other coaches but not so much to the players and the fans.

IMHO, the title of AHC lets the players and other AC's know who is charge when the HC is not present. That could be for just an interruption or it could be for several days should some mishap occur. I think in this scenario the HCIW and AHC have the same impact.

Most AC's have a one year contract and they're being evaluated by the HC throughout the year. If the HC departs they know their job just went away. Reference Tuberville and Texas Tech. With a HCIW, they're trying to please him as well as HC. When the HC departs, there's a good chance the new HC will keep some to most of the existing ACs.

The advantage to recruiting is therefore more than just the HCIW person. It also lets recruits assume that position coaches will be around.

This is not a big advantage but who doesn't want every advantage they can get?

Did this start with Bowden/Fisher? ESPN reported the Fisher HCIW in December 2007 (ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3142649)) "The school will announce that Fisher has agreed to a three-year deal that will pay just under $1 million per year. When Bowden retires, the school has told Fisher he will succeed the legendary coach. If for any reason Fisher is not named coach at that time, the school would pay Fisher a multimillion dollar buyout."

I have yet to hear if Texas owes Muschamp any money if he doesn't get to succeed Brown.

Did FSU have a recruiting advantage with Fisher as HCIW? In this recent CBS Sports analysts discussion (CBSSPORTS (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/12936343/in-the-trenches-expanding-on-expansion-signing-surprises-title-guesses/rss)) it doesn't support it but I found it interesting.
"Who knew all it took for the Seminoles to get back to having a top 10 class was to get rid of Bobby Bowden? I thought Bowden was the guy who walked into the living room to seal the deal ... now it's Jimbo Fisher? Coaching uncertainty the past few years at FSU definitely had something to do with it. Hard to send your kid to college when you don't know who the head coach will be from year to year, but still, I was very surprised on signing day. Snagging LB Christian Jones, WR Christian Green and DL Bjorn Werner to the guys they already had locked up makes it a very nice recruiting class. Obviously, recruiting is all a guessing game, but the Seminoles look primed for an ACC title run in a couple of seasons."

That pointed out a disadvantage of a HCIW, yet also the advantage because he hits the ground running when the HC departs.

I think the issue is money. Not every Division I FBS school can afford to pay HCIW money especially if there is a penalty clause as with Fisher. Yet, if they get feedback from lost recruits that it makes a difference then they will feel obligated to "keep up with the Jones." I think the NCAA people who voted for this are trying to avoid that.

In summary, I think there is a recruiting advantage although I'm not sure it's enough to treat HCIW as HCs when recruiting. The better solution (for the majority that apparently voted for this) would have been to disallow HCIW contracts and avoid the money problem.

DON"T RIP ME. I know you Texas guys want to discuss and cuss this so I'm just giving some food for thought.

[pied]

One year contract at less $$$ than Fisher was paid. No buy out and no guarantee apparently.





Details provided for Muschamp’s contract




Defensive coordinator Will Muschamp, who is the head coach designate, has signed a one-year contract that automatically renews itself so long as Mack Brown is still in charge of the team.

There is no set date in the contract for the transition from Brown’s retirement to Muschamp stepping to head coach.

The contract calls for him to make $900,000 annually. But it also has performance incentives. So far, Muschamp has earned an extra $75,000 based on the Longhorns qualifying for the national championship game. A victory over Alabama is worth an additional $20,000.

If Muschamp takes over as head coach before the end of 2010, his salary will be $2 million. If it’s in the 2011 season, Muschamp will earn a base of $2.25 million and if he is head coach for 2012, it will be $2.5 million.

There is no buyout clause in the contract if another school wants to hire Muschamp away before Brown retires. Texas athletics director DeLoss Dodds has said that he has never put a buyout clause in any coach’s contract.

Muschamp agreed to the basics of the contract a year ago. He did not sign it until Tuesday.


http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/austin/longhorns/entries/2009/12/10/details_provide.html

[pied]

USC's staff:

Defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin, the coach's father, will be paid $1.2 million......Recruiting coordinator and defensive line coach Ed Orgeron's salary is $650,000.


http://www.thewizofodds.com/the_wiz_of_odds/2009/01/kiffins-staff-highestpaid-in-college-football.html

No limits on recruiting.

[TulsaHale74]

Here's a completely different take about the HCIW.


http://www.thehoya.com/sports/coaches-waiting-present-problems/




The main problem with this process is that it is exclusive and somewhat unfair. Obviously it has to be exclusionary — that is the point of naming a successor who ensures a smooth transition of power. But it seems like guidelines should be in place. In a sport that is still struggling to add minority head coaches — only nine out of 120 Division I-A coaches are minorities — this process will only be detrimental to the diversity problem in the college coaching ranks. Of the coaches-in-waiting at major programs, only one — Kentucky’s Phillips — is a minority.
Most programs, using this anointing process, are going to tab coordinators as successors; but unfortunately, most of these coordinators are white. Besides Kentucky, where both coordinators are black, there are only five coordinators in the SEC that are minorities. The Big Ten is even worse with only two minority coordinators. If the coordinators at these schools remain predominately white, then it will be predominately white candidates chosen as coaches-in-waiting, and the number of minority head coaches will lag behind. As it stands now, only 7.5 percent of coaches are minorities in a sport where 54 percent of the players are minorities.
The NCAA has taken notice too.
“We really need to emphasize that designating a successor ... closes off inclusion — it closes off opening up interviews for all top candidates,” NCAA Vice President for Diversity and Inclusion Charlotte Westerhaus told USA Today. “And if you close that off, you will inevitably close off the opportunity to diversify the ranks of college football.”
The NCAA needs to step in and set some guidelines soon. In the meantime, coaches-in-waiting will sit on the side and watch as programs sputter, and qualified coaches won’t be given a chance to interview for jobs that should be open to a larger field of candidates.

[pied]

I think that's a very good point, perhaps the best one that has been brought up. The problem is that no where does it deal with a recruiting advantage that is being purported byt the supporters of the issue in the Big East.

[pied]

I smell a grandfather clause.

At least for one year.



Texas defensive coordinator Will Muschamp will be able to recruit the way he always has -- at least for another year.

The Washington Post is reporting that the NCAA is allowing a one-year grace period since it imposed a rule that forces coaches-in-waiting, like Muschamp, to be saddled with the same recruiting restrictions as head coaches.

Texas athletic director DeLoss Dodds was opposed to the legislation when it was passed:

"Obviously, since this legislation impacts only two programs in the country, we feel we are being singled out. Will is our head coach-in-waiting but he is also our defensive coordinator, and this legislation restricts his ability to perform his current job duties."

The other program Dodds referred to is Maryland, which has positioned offensive coordinator James Franklin as its next coach.

http://collegesportsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/03/muschamp-allowed-one-year-grace-period-t.html

[Point Made...]

Still feeling this CIW thing to see how it pans out.

I think any CIW takes a huge risk for a job that has no time-table in coming...while at the same time, watching lucrative jobs pass him by.

The CIW should be re-named to CIL (Coach In Limbo) since that's literally what he's accepting to do.

[Trojanalum693]

Dumb. So remove the title of "Head Coach in Waiting" and problem solved.

agreed

[Trojanalum693]

I believe that the whole head coach in waiting thing is bull:Censor:! Look what happened at FSU. They forced out Bobby Bowden a legendary head coach and replaced him with some guy named Jimbo Fisher. Wtf is up with that. Just because Bowden had a few bad years don't mean they needed to fire him. Well they basically fired him by telling him if he stayed Fisher would get to hire the new defensive Coordinator and have authority over Bowden. You don't give assistants authority over head coaches no matter what!!! That is why they are assistants not actually the HC.

FSU is FSU because of Bobby Bowden. He deserved to go out on his own terms not on the terms of the University they owed him that much after all he did for them.

[Trojanalum693]

Here's a completely different take about the HCIW.


http://www.thehoya.com/sports/coaches-waiting-present-problems/




The main problem with this process is that it is exclusive and somewhat unfair. Obviously it has to be exclusionary — that is the point of naming a successor who ensures a smooth transition of power. But it seems like guidelines should be in place. In a sport that is still struggling to add minority head coaches — only nine out of 120 Division I-A coaches are minorities — this process will only be detrimental to the diversity problem in the college coaching ranks. Of the coaches-in-waiting at major programs, only one — Kentucky’s Phillips — is a minority.
Most programs, using this anointing process, are going to tab coordinators as successors; but unfortunately, most of these coordinators are white. Besides Kentucky, where both coordinators are black, there are only five coordinators in the SEC that are minorities. The Big Ten is even worse with only two minority coordinators. If the coordinators at these schools remain predominately white, then it will be predominately white candidates chosen as coaches-in-waiting, and the number of minority head coaches will lag behind. As it stands now, only 7.5 percent of coaches are minorities in a sport where 54 percent of the players are minorities.
The NCAA has taken notice too.
“We really need to emphasize that designating a successor ... closes off inclusion — it closes off opening up interviews for all top candidates,” NCAA Vice President for Diversity and Inclusion Charlotte Westerhaus told USA Today. “And if you close that off, you will inevitably close off the opportunity to diversify the ranks of college football.”
The NCAA needs to step in and set some guidelines soon. In the meantime, coaches-in-waiting will sit on the side and watch as programs sputter, and qualified coaches won’t be given a chance to interview for jobs that should be open to a larger field of candidates.


I think the whole minority thing is totally messed up. I think the best man for the job should get the job and whether he is black or white should not matter at all.

The media puts too much emphasis on race and blows it out of proportion every time a minority head coach gets fired.

As far as coaches in waiting as I have already said it is bull:Censor:. Just remove the title completly and problem solved.