Bad call to end D1 Championship

[xtreme]

The Trinity receiver did not have control of the ball until after his legs were out-of-bounds. I'm an impartial observer.

[yankee]

&(%&()#*_!__~~~~923999#

[powerofthehaka]

The Trinity receiver did not have control of the ball until after his legs were out-of-bounds. I'm an impartial observer.

Here we go.:Censor:

[Trinity Alum]

Here we go.:Censor:

You knew that something like this would come up. We've heard it before.

[Favpack]

It was the right call. Refs were not great, but that's the call you're gonna get right there.

[F18mustang]

First of many threads. :rolleyes:


The ball never touched the ground, which is good enough in High School.


Its over now.

[PvilleSoCold]

There will be a replay put in after that game you can bet money on that.

[powerofthehaka]

First of many threads. :rolleyes:


The ball never touched the ground, which is good enough in High School.


Its over now.

And they will have more hit's than any of the positive threads.:Censor:

[drgnbkr]

Wow!:eek: Great job Trinity! What a call and catch.

[MAAAVRICKS]

There will be a replay put in after that game you can bet money on that.
Won't do any good! The Ref only saw what he wanted to see. Trinity was picked to win, and that's all there is to it!
No shame for Westlake. Incredible effort, brilliant and courageous play from both offense and defense.

[F18mustang]

Won't do any good! The Ref only saw what he wanted to see. Trinity was picked to win, and that's all there is to it!
No shame for Westlake. Incredible effort, brilliant and courageous play from both offense and defense.

Good God. :rolleyes:


Even it the catch went to replay it would be in the "not enough evidence to overturn" category.

[powerofthehaka]

Won't do any good! The Ref only saw what he wanted to see. Trinity was picked to win, and that's all there is to it!
No shame for Westlake. Incredible effort, brilliant and courageous play from both offense and defense.

That's it. Conspiracy.

[drgnbkr]

that's it. Conspiracy.

:d

[Dallascaper]

That's it. Conspiracy.

Next year we will be passing out tin-foil hats instead of pom-pons.

[15Adragon]

It was the right call. Refs were not great, but that's the call you're gonna get right there.

I agree, this is HS not the NFL. Also, it was a gutsy call. Congrats to both teams.

[baylordad]

NO DOUBT THE CATCH WAS GOOD!! The two ref's calls validated it!!! I don't give a Rat's A$$ what the nay sayers have to say. They can pi$$ and moan forever!! We are the 5A Division I State Champion!!!

[F18mustang]

! We are the 5A Division I State Champion!!!

There won't ever be enough *****in to change it either.

[powerofthehaka]

NO DOUBT THE CATCH WAS GOOD!! The two ref's calls validated it!!! I don't give a Rat's A$$ what the nay sayers have to say. They can pi$$ and moan forever!! We are the 5A Division I State Champion!!!

And they can't that back.:notworthy

[Trinity Alum]

Won't do any good! The Ref only saw what he wanted to see. Trinity was picked to win, and that's all there is to it!No shame for Westlake. Incredible effort, brilliant and courageous play from both offense and defense.

You're so right! :rolleyes:

[E-Vol-ution]

Yeah.....like Cedar Park is "impartially" a part of Austin.:rolleyes:The Trinity receiver did not have control of the ball until after his legs were out-of-bounds. I'm an impartial observer.

[Trinity Alum]

NO DOUBT THE CATCH WAS GOOD!! The two ref's calls validated it!!! I don't give a Rat's A$$ what the nay sayers have to say. They can pi$$ and moan forever!! We are the 5A Division I State Champion!!!


:notworthy:notworthy

[Biggems]

the call was bad...it as an incomplete pass. i wish the trinity fans would simply admit that they were the beneficiaries of a bad call. it is nothing to be ashamed of. every team wins a game here or there where a bad call assists them. just be honest with yourselves and the rest of the fanbase and admit the call on the field was wrong. the kid never gained full possession of the ball until after his leg touched out of bounds.

the ref called it like he saw it, even if it was the wrong call. i am cool with that. i am not cool with the blindness of the trinity fans. just admit the gift and its all good.

[TXMike]

This is about a great argument as you can get for 7 man crews in HS football. especially at that level and at this point of the season. These kids are just too athletic and make incredible plays. The calling official was running to get to the goal line. That is NEVER a good thing because your vision while running is not as sharp as while standing still. With a 7 man crew there would have been an official standing at the goal line, calmly watching the play develop and hopefully able to see the bobble with no possession until player was laying out of bounds

[TrojanBandEX]

The Trinity receiver did not have control of the ball until after his legs were out-of-bounds. I'm an impartial observer.

The receiver's legs became irrelevant when the ball was touched by the receiver in the endzone and he immedietly dropped to his back. At that point all he had to do was gain possession, which he did. That's good enough in high school.

[LR46]

The Trinity receiver did not have control of the ball until after his legs were out-of-bounds. I'm an impartial observer.

So what's your point? Trinity won and are the 5A Division 1 State Champs. So what's your point?

The ref called it a touchdown as he was standing right over the play.

So what's your point?

[LR46]

the call was bad...it as an incomplete pass. i wish the trinity fans would simply admit that they were the beneficiaries of a bad call. it is nothing to be ashamed of. every team wins a game here or there where a bad call assists them. just be honest with yourselves and the rest of the fanbase and admit the call on the field was wrong. the kid never gained full possession of the ball until after his leg touched out of bounds.

the ref called it like he saw it, even if it was the wrong call. i am cool with that. i am not cool with the blindness of the trinity fans. just admit the gift and its all good.

Again, what's your point. The ref called it like he saw it. To me he was down on his back the ball was in the end zone, he had possession on his stomach. Who cares where his feet were. They could have been in the stands if the ball was in the endzone and so was his belly.

So what's your point?

[F18mustang]

the call was bad...it as an incomplete pass. i wish the trinity fans would simply admit that they were the beneficiaries of a bad call. it is nothing to be ashamed of. every team wins a game here or there where a bad call assists them. just be honest with yourselves and the rest of the fanbase and admit the call on the field was wrong. the kid never gained full possession of the ball until after his leg touched out of bounds.

the ref called it like he saw it, even if it was the wrong call. i am cool with that. i am not cool with the blindness of the trinity fans. just admit the gift and its all good.

Did you see the ball hit the ground? It didn't and thats good enough for the HS level. Trinity was not the beneficiary of anything and neither was Westlake. Even if the catch were reviewed at the College or Pro level it still wouldn't be overturned. A little something called "indisputable evidence."


Trinity is the State Champion, get over it. Let their fans celebrate like a champion should.

[Biggems]

Again, what's your point. The ref called it like he saw it. To me he was down on his back the ball was in the end zone, he had possession on his stomach. Who cares where his feet were. They could have been in the stands if the ball was in the endzone and so was his belly.

So what's your point?

the point is, it was not a catch. the kid never gained possession of the ball till his foot touched out of bounds....that is the point.

just admit that trinity got away with one and it is all good. this kind of stuff happens all the time in sports. i am not upset either way. i just wish the trinity fans would actually be honest with themselves and the board and admit that the ref made a mistake.

[Biggems]

Did you see the ball hit the ground? It didn't and thats good enough for the HS level. Trinity was not the beneficiary of anything and neither was Westlake. Even if the catch were reviewed at the College or Pro level it still wouldn't be overturned. A little something called "indisputable evidence."


Trinity is the State Champion, get over it. Let their fans celebrate like a champion should.

are you blind....that call is overturned 100% of the time in college or the NFL, that is unless OU is playing Oregon.

They showed a replay from an angle that was looking at the front of the receiver...that ball was never in possession....it was slipping and sliding through his hands and even the defenders hands....the ball did not get possessed until the after the leg touched out of bounds...

[LR46]

Did you see the ball hit the ground? It didn't and thats good enough for the HS level. Trinity was not the beneficiary of anything and neither was Westlake. Even if the catch were reviewed at the College or Pro level it still wouldn't be overturned. A little something called "indisputable evidence."


Trinity is the State Champion, get over it. Let their fans celebrate like a champion should.

AMEN . . . agree 150%. There's always a wet blanket in every crowd . . . some people are just like that. Let's move on and stop debating something that isn't worth another breath . . . whsssssssssss!

[LR46]

are you blind....that call is overturned 100% of the time in college or the NFL, that is unless OU is playing Oregon.

They showed a replay from an angle that was looking at the front of the receiver...that ball was never in possession....it was slipping and sliding through his hands and even the defenders hands....the ball did not get possessed until the after the leg touched out of bounds...

Now I know why you are like this . . I just took the time to look at you signature blolck . . . that's OK, I understand you now! :rolleyes:

[F18mustang]

are you blind....that call is overturned 100% of the time in college or the NFL, that is unless OU is playing Oregon.

I made that point, yes, but this is High School and it was good enough. The Trinity fans should have to live it down either.

[DougOrama]

First of many threads. :rolleyes:


The ball never touched the ground, which is good enough in High School.


Its over now.

The ball was never in his grasp in any way, either, which is required to be a catch no matter what league you play in.

I had no dog in the fight. I didn't care who won. It was clearly a bad call, but I can see how the offical couldn't see it. Trinity probably would have converted and gone on to score anyway, but it was a shame that the game had to end on a bad call like that.

[baylordad]

the point is, it was not a catch. the kid never gained possession of the ball till his foot touched out of bounds....that is the point.

just admit that trinity got away with one and it is all good. this kind of stuff happens all the time in sports. i am not upset either way. i just wish the trinity fans would actually be honest with themselves and the board and admit that the ref made a mistake.

Suits me, I am a 30 year Trinity Fan. I here by grant your wish!! With that done, hope you are happy and feel all better now. We are still and will always be the 2009 5A Division I Texas High School Football Champion!!!

[texas_smoke69]

the call was bad...it as an incomplete pass. i wish the trinity fans would simply admit that they were the beneficiaries of a bad call. it is nothing to be ashamed of. every team wins a game here or there where a bad call assists them. just be honest with yourselves and the rest of the fanbase and admit the call on the field was wrong. the kid never gained full possession of the ball until after his leg touched out of bounds.

the ref called it like he saw it, even if it was the wrong call. i am cool with that. i am not cool with the blindness of the trinity fans. just admit the gift and its all good.

I agree it was the "incorrect" call. However, I TRULY believe ET was going to drive down and score anyway. Just my opinion.

These refs have a very difficult job and don't have the luxury of IR like college and the pros and I'm kinda glad. If this would have happened in the NFL they'd still be reviewing the dang play.

[sabishop4]

Biggems is 100% right. I'm no Trinity fan, but that was incomplete...he never got control of the ball until he was out of bounds. Any review would overturn that. However, almost any HS ref would call that a TD. It was too hard to see from his angle.

Anyways...go Katy.

[newarmy12]

Yeah.....like Cedar Park is "impartially" a part of Austin.:rolleyes:


I am an impartial observer from the Houston area and I agree that it was not a catch...

Not taking anything away from Trinity and not trying to be a nay-sayer but I honestly believe the wrong call was made on the field. But to be honest, I think Trinity was going to score anyways.

Congrats, Trinity! Well deserved! :notworthy

[powerofthehaka]

the call was bad...it as an incomplete pass. i wish the trinity fans would simply admit that they were the beneficiaries of a bad call. it is nothing to be ashamed of. every team wins a game here or there where a bad call assists them. just be honest with yourselves and the rest of the fanbase and admit the call on the field was wrong. the kid never gained full possession of the ball until after his leg touched out of bounds.

the ref called it like he saw it, even if it was the wrong call. i am cool with that. i am not cool with the blindness of the trinity fans. just admit the gift and its all good.

I'll admit we got the benefit of that call, but for me it was a good call.:D
I just don't want such a great game belittled by it.:mad:

[maxtor]

I am an impartial observer from the Houston area and I agree that it was not a catch...

Not taking anything away from Trinity and not trying to be a nay-sayer but I honestly believe the wrong call was made on the field. But to be honest, I think Trinity was going to score anyways.

Congrats, Trinity! Well deserved! :notworthy

The play happened on 2nd and 3 anyway.:)

[TXMike]

NO DOUBT THE CATCH WAS GOOD!! The two ref's calls validated it!!! I don't give a Rat's A$$ what the nay sayers have to say. They can pi$$ and moan forever!! We are the 5A Division I State Champion!!!

So NOW you are supporting the refs. Where were you after last week's game?

[E-Vol-ution]

What I saw was the ref in a position that he could see two bodies with the ball in between after a visible view of the Trinity WR pulling the ball in and them landing with the Westlake kid rolling away and the ball in the WR's hands. That is HS football with no chance of replay and a good call that no one could possibly see at the moment of that play.
I am an impartial observer from the Houston area and I agree that it was not a catch...

Not taking anything away from Trinity and not trying to be a nay-sayer but I honestly believe the wrong call was made on the field. But to be honest, I think Trinity was going to score anyways.

Congrats, Trinity! Well deserved! :notworthy

[da wiz]

the call was bad...it as an incomplete pass. i wish the trinity fans would simply admit that they were the beneficiaries of a bad call. it is nothing to be ashamed of. every team wins a game here or there where a bad call assists them. just be honest with yourselves and the rest of the fanbase and admit the call on the field was wrong. the kid never gained full possession of the ball until after his leg touched out of bounds.

the ref called it like he saw it, even if it was the wrong call. i am cool with that. i am not cool with the blindness of the trinity fans. just admit the gift and its all good.

sounds like a hater to me,,,,:D:Music:D

[MemorialMustangs]

It was not a bad call - it was a tough call... A bad call is a call that a ref would purposefully call wrong or misses something that is pretty clear because he looks elsewhere... A tough call is something that would be impossible to call correctly without replay... Regardless all the credit in the world has to go to the WR for forcing a call and I will leave it at that...

[Tiger Fan]

How much more impartial can you get than I? It's a catch! A geat one at that. No pushing off like Allen did to our DB last year. He cut under and took the ball away. Yea, not a clean catch but the ball never touched the ground and look who came away with the possession!

My only question, why did Trinity's offense take so long to show up?

[Tsup]

The refs made the call the games over Trinity won..why can't you just let it be and not pi$$ all over a hard fought football game and great effort by both teams !!!the point is, it was not a catch. the kid never gained possession of the ball till his foot touched out of bounds....that is the point.

just admit that trinity got away with one and it is all good. this kind of stuff happens all the time in sports. i am not upset either way. i just wish the trinity fans would actually be honest with themselves and the board and admit that the ref made a mistake.

[Trinity Alum]

How much more impartial can you get than I? It's a catch! A geat one at that. No pushing off like Allen did to our DB last year. He cut under and took the ball away. Yea, not a clean catch but the ball never touched the ground and look who came away with the possession!

My only question, why did Trinity's offense take so long to show up?

You might want to give Westlake some credit for that.

[Tiger Fan]

OMG I just read some more on this thread. All I can ask of any of you is this, the guy who made the call was maybe 3 feet away. How much closer were any of you?

[Tiger Fan]

How much more impartial can you get than I? It's a catch! A geat one at that. No pushing off like Allen did to our DB last year. He cut under and took the ball away. Yea, not a clean catch but the ball never touched the ground and look who came away with the possession!

My only question, why did Trinity's offense take so long to show up?

You might want to give Westlake some credit for that.

True dat. But your #10 had his way with us it seemed. Peesed me off!

[baylordad]

So NOW you are supporting the refs. Where were you after last week's game?
I have not said anything about the refs all year. You don't have a clue what you are talking about!!

[CKE]

I am an impartial observer and I don't even want to hear that trinity deserved that win after that crap I'm not the die hard high school football fan I used to be that's why I don't post on here anymore and after watching that take place I'm glad I do not take this as seriously as I used to. To you westlake fans I'm sorry that you guys got robbed. Should have put that game away when you had the chance congrats on a great season

[Trinity Trojan Fan For Li]

There's a bunch of BS being slung on this thread. Get over it. Trinity won.

Euless Trinity Trojans

2009 5A Division I State Champions

[RRISDFAN]

I am an impartial observer and I don't even want to hear that trinity deserved that win after that crap I'm not the die hard high school football fan I used to be that's why I don't post on here anymore and after watching that take place I'm glad I do not take this as seriously as I used to. To you westlake fans I'm sorry that you guys got robbed. Should have put that game away when you had the chance congrats on a great season


Good.:) I hate to see people try to tarnish these kids victory.

[E-Vol-ution]

Dang...I thought you didn't post here anymore.
Cut the light off on your way out the door please. :p
QUOTE=CKE;1432657]I am an impartial observer and I don't even want to hear that trinity deserved that win after that crap I'm not the die hard high school football fan I used to be that's why I don't post on here anymore and after watching that take place I'm glad I do not take this as seriously as I used to. To you westlake fans I'm sorry that you guys got robbed. Should have put that game away when you had the chance congrats on a great season[/QUOTE]

[Bruig]

I was waiting for that throw. Carter going up like that was deja vu for us SP fans.

[rudedog60]

Which play were you people watching? I've seen the replay at least three times since the game completed. I JUST SAW IT AGAIN. He jumped up and caught the ball right at the goal, fell down INBOUNDS inside the goal line onto his back, then rolled where his feet were out of bounds. HOW IS THAT A BAD CATCH? The ball was in his possession when his BODY crossed the plane of the goal line. Are you trying to say the catch isn't complete until his feet are on the ground? If so, you people need to go back to Football 101 and learn the rules.

[Tiger Fan]

I was waiting for that throw. Carter going up like that was deja vu for us SP fans.
yes it was. ouch. but congrats to trinity!

[CKE]

Could really care less of what you think of me man those kids you speak of won that game from an adult handing it to them. But hey if you want to support a game that was not legit you keep yyoudoing that shows what kid of character you have

[rudedog60]

If you people want conspiracy, how about the Colt McCoy Syndrome the refs had at the end of the half with Westlake's 'extra second'? Take that away and the overtime play is a non-issue. If you disagree with that one, how about the BS flag at the end of the fourth that made the last Trinity field goal and extra 5 yards? ABOUT THE SAME DISTANCE THE KICK WAS SHORT. And you want to call a good catch at the end of overtime a bad call?:confused:

[Tsup]

Thats right make the whole game about 1 play, did it ever occur to you the next down would have been 3 and 3 and trinity was just jamming the ball down westlakes throat on the last few drives. And that the play if called incomplete may have had no affect on the game at all. A blanket statement like that discredits the athletes on both sides of the field.
Had they called it incomplete you know lineweaver is going for it on 3rd and 4th down the man has :Censor: the size of cowbells :notworthy:notworthy:notworthy-+
+I am an impartial observer and I don't even want to hear that trinity deserved that win after that crap I'm not the die hard high school football fan I used to be that's why I don't post on here anymore and after watching that take place I'm glad I do not take this as seriously as I used to. To you westlake fans I'm sorry that you guys got robbed. Should have put that game away when you had the chance congrats on a great season

[E-Vol-ution]

Then why not just fly away Batman (oh shoot, Batman can't fly).
Could really care less of what you think of me man those kids you speak of won that game from an adult handing it to them. But hey if you want to support a game that was not legit you keep yyoudoing that shows what kid of character you have

[Tiger Fan]

That's it, I'm out! Trinity, hope to see you next year(NOT). I would rather face Allen again. Thank you.

[Lipander]

Which play were you people watching? I've seen the replay at least three times since the game completed. I JUST SAW IT AGAIN. He jumped up and caught the ball right at the goal, fell down INBOUNDS inside the goal line onto his back, then rolled where his feet were out of bounds. HOW IS THAT A BAD CATCH? The ball was in his possession when his BODY crossed the plane of the goal line. Are you trying to say the catch isn't complete until his feet are on the ground? If so, you people need to go back to Football 101 and learn the rules.

The receiver has to maintain possession of the ball until both feet hit the ground in this situation, not when the ball crosses the goal line. it's not a touchdown in the college or pros the instant he catches the ball and crosses the goal line, why should it be a touchdown in high school? They have to maintain control through contact with the ground. He clearly did not have possession when his feet hit the ground, and he did not have clear full possession until BOTH legs were sitting out of bounds. Not a touchdown! At the next level that call is reviewed and reversed 101% of the time. The evidence is indisputable.

[powerofthehaka]

The receiver has to maintain possession of the ball until both feet hit the ground in this situation, not when the ball crosses the goal line. it's not a touchdown in the college or pros the instant he catches the ball and crosses the goal line, why should it be a touchdown in high school? They have to maintain control through contact with the ground. He clearly did not have possession when his feet hit the ground, and he did not have clear full possession until BOTH legs were sitting out of bounds. Not a touchdown! At the next level that call is reviewed and reversed 101% of the time. The evidence is indisputable.

Single digit posters unite.

[caesarscott]

call looked good to me. i only saw it once, just like the zebras.

westlake fans are pretty funny complaining about the refs, especially since they were only called for a penalty 1 time in 4+ quarters of football

[TXMike]

i doubt thwere will be a whole lot of westlakes fans complaining about the refs seeing as how they had an intentional grounding against them waved off that would have been a safety.

[rudedog60]

The receiver has to maintain possession of the ball until both feet hit the ground in this situation, not when the ball crosses the goal line. it's not a touchdown in the college or pros the instant he catches the ball and crosses the goal line, why should it be a touchdown in high school? They have to maintain control through contact with the ground. He clearly did not have possession when his feet hit the ground, and he did not have clear full possession until BOTH legs were sitting out of bounds. Not a touchdown! At the next level that call is reviewed and reversed 101% of the time. The evidence is indisputable.


Watch it again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWwWlLSWA2Q

He was on his back in the end zone. The controversy will be is the ball seems to be rolling around on his stomach as he's lying on the ground in the end zone. He still doesn't have full possession as he puts his feet out of bounds while he is still lying on his back. HOWEVER, the ball never touches the ground. If a ball is just lying on your body, and you have your arms around the ball as it moves around your body, and your body is on the ground in the end zone, does it matter where your feet end up? You are considered down based on where you BODY is in relation to the field, not where your feet end up.

Everyone here gets the advantage of watching this play in slow motion over and over again. In real time, the play happened in seconds, with Carter jumping up with the ball in his hands. As a ref, you try to get in the best position to get the perfect angle of what occurs at trhe end of the play. Unless the ref was standing right on top of the play to see the ball rolling around on carter's stomach, there is no way he's going to call the end of that play any different. If you want controversial plays like this to stop, implement instant replay. But as we know, that will NEVER happen in high school football. Not unless you want your taxes to skyrocket so the UIL can install big screens and cameras in every high school stadium across the state. :rolleyes:

[TXMike]

If your feet are out of bounds you are out of bounds. When the receiver finally got possession, he was laying in bounds and out of bounds By rule that means he was out of bounds when he completed the catch. To complete a cathc you must have possession and poossession is defined in the rule book as firmly controlling the ball.

[Tsup]

I think you just decided this should be a issue when its not.. Did you want Lineweaver to jump out on the field and say no no his feet weren't in ?

Are you truly so ignorant to believe there weren't 20 1 play scenarios that had a affect on this game ? get over it and give credit where credit is due. Thats one of the best games i have ever seen and ive seen alot of them. i put it right up there with the Plano east john tyler game.

Get a life and give the kids from both teams some credit or shut the :Censor: up

call looked good to me. i only saw it once, just like the zebras.

westlake fans are pretty funny complaining about the refs, especially since they were only called for a penalty 1 time in 4+ quarters of football

[KatyProper]

The Trinity receiver did not have control of the ball until after his legs were out-of-bounds. I'm an impartial observer.

I watched this several times in HD in slow-motion. I wholeheartedly agree.

[chhspantherfan]

Single digit posters unite.

bump

[F18mustang]

Trinity Trojans 2009 Division 1 State Champions


And a "so-so" call won't change it.

[STP FAN]

Fair ball, good game. Congrats to the Trojans! See you again in our future. Why even start this thread and ruin a great victory, I am not sure. Now on to Basketball for everyone.

[KatyProper]

Saying that it wasn't an actual catch doesn't mean that Trinity wouldn't have won the game anyway. Great game, and I would have made the same call as the ref had I been in his shoes. I'm just saying with the benefit of replay, that the dude was out of bounds when he gained control of the ball.

[twcpfan1]

I would have said TD in real time. Even if there was replay, not enough evidence to overturn it. Without the TD pass ET would have just run it in.

ET deserves it.



And I hate them :D

[BlackAttack]

Just saw the replay on TV. It was definitely a TD by the Trinity receiver. Westlake can have the moral victory state championship if they so desire, but Trinity won that game fair and square.

[allendad]

Attained control when on his back in the endzone . . . .

arms were raised . . . . . .

It's a touchdown . . . . .



TRINITY WINS GAME . . . .



STATE CHAMPIONS BABY ! ! ! ! !


nuf sed !


Spring ball in 4 months . . . . .

Start liftin' them weights for '10.




C O N G R A T S - T O - THE - T R O J A N S ! ! ! ! ! ! !


:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy



PERIOD.




.

[Pinion]

Trinity won the game. No matter what, they are the winner.

Was it a legit catch? Nope. but on the run the ref had no way of knowing that. We have the luxury or reply and slo-mo, they dont.

Would it have meant a Westlake win? we'll never know.

I know everyone will be talking about. and I'll be stirring the pot as often as possible because I cant stand Trinity (just warning you people now).

So, to review: Trinity was declared the winner. It was NOT a legit catch. The refs had no way of knowing this. I hate Trinity. And I'll be stirring the pot from time to time because I know this wont go away.

[SLC]

This guy said yes....


http://www.dreamstime.com/football-referee-touchdown-thumb10010281.jpg

[PantherStang84]

Won't do any good! The Ref only saw what he wanted to see. Trinity was picked to win, and that's all there is to it!
No shame for Westlake. Incredible effort, brilliant and courageous play from both offense and defense.

:laugh Yes at you.

[PantherStang84]

Trinity won the game. No matter what, they are the winner.

Was it a legit catch? Nope. but on the run the ref had no way of knowing that. We have the luxury or reply and slo-mo, they dont.

Would it have meant a Westlake win? we'll never know.

I know everyone will be talking about. and I'll be stirring the pot as often as possible because I cant stand Trinity (just warning you people now).

So, to review: Trinity was declared the winner. It was NOT a legit catch. The refs had no way of knowing this. I hate Trinity. And I'll be stirring the pot from time to time because I know this wont go away.

:laugh at you too.

[powerofthehaka]

Trinity won the game. No matter what, they are the winner.

Was it a legit catch? Nope. but on the run the ref had no way of knowing that. We have the luxury or reply and slo-mo, they dont.

Would it have meant a Westlake win? we'll never know.

I know everyone will be talking about. and I'll be stirring the pot as often as possible because I cant stand Trinity (just warning you people now).

So, to review: Trinity was declared the winner. It was NOT a legit catch. The refs had no way of knowing this. I hate Trinity. And I'll be stirring the pot from time to time because I know this wont go away.

Change your name to pinhead.:D

[FeeltheHaka]

If you want to cherry pick bad calls; then what about the joke of a call with 2 seconds left in regulation, possibly causing us to miss the field goal? How about several times in the last 5 minutes of the game, when Westlake had the ball; there were several not just one, but several times the clock was stopped when it should have been running! When the ref stopped the game to have 1 second taken off the clock, it should have been about 6 seconds taken off the clock.

I believe it was a touchdown, 9 out of 10 refs would call it a touchdown. Don't just cherry pick one perceived bad call to create drama. It just doesn't do any good, or make anyone feel better.

[RRISDFAN]

Could really care less of what you think of me man those kids you speak of won that game from an adult handing it to them. But hey if you want to support a game that was not legit you keep yyoudoing that shows what kid of character you have


Not legit??? Go back to retirement. You are showing your character not me.

[drgnbkr]

Great call, great execution and great catch! Way to go Trinity!:notworthy We can all watch it till this time next year and it's still a TD...

[svhorns]

Just got back from the dome. My head hurts. I was right about where that throw happened and I have to say that I didn't think it was a catch. my .02

[RRISDFAN]

This guy said yes....


http://www.dreamstime.com/football-referee-touchdown-thumb10010281.jpg


:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy

[mojotrain]

There will be a replay put in after that game you can bet money on that.
A replay might show D interference.

[FeeltheHaka]

Just watched the replay a couple more times. Sorry, he caught that ball in bounds legit! I feel comfortable posting this. He had possession before his foot touched the ground out of bounds.

[drgnbkr]

Just watched the replay a couple more times. Sorry, he caught that ball in bounds legit! I feel comfortable posting this. He had possession before his foot touched the ground out of bounds.

There aren't many saying otherwise from anywhere other than centex. The ref was maybe 2 yards away from the catch...He had the best view.

[Favpack]

There aren't many saying otherwise from anywhere other than centex. The ref was maybe 2 yards away from the catch...He had the best view.

My view was blocked by my refreshments.

[Tsup]

Should your support for the fat Mexican fade, we would welcome your support for the large Tongan :DTrinity won the game. No matter what, they are the winner.

Was it a legit catch? Nope. but on the run the ref had no way of knowing that. We have the luxury or reply and slo-mo, they dont.

Would it have meant a Westlake win? we'll never know.

I know everyone will be talking about. and I'll be stirring the pot as often as possible because I cant stand Trinity (just warning you people now).

So, to review: Trinity was declared the winner. It was NOT a legit catch. The refs had no way of knowing this. I hate Trinity. And I'll be stirring the pot from time to time because I know this wont go away.

[THSBandDad]

Did I think it was a touchdown? NO. Did the ref think it was a touchdown? YES. Which opinion matters? HIS

I thought there were several bad calls this game, BOTH ways. They need seven officials on the field for playoff games, PERIOD.

Was there one second on the clock at the half? Definitely YES. I did a stop action on the play when the ball hit the ground and there was a second left.

Should it have been grounding in the endzone on Westlake? I think so.

Was it a legit call against Trinity at the end of regulation? Yes. Did it matter? Definitely NOT. The FG attempt hit only five yards deep in the endzone, so would have still been short from five yards closer.

It was a great game played by two closely matched teams. Could have gone either way.

And by the way, if you think Westlake should have gone for two at the end, you're an idiot. NO coach makes that call at that point of this game.

[bigdaddydog]

How much more impartial can you get than I? It's a catch! A geat one at that. No pushing off like Allen did to our DB last year. He cut under and took the ball away. Yea, not a clean catch but the ball never touched the ground and look who came away with the possession!

My only question, why did Trinity's offense take so long to show up?

We agree, It was a catch!! Congratulations to Trinity

2009 5A Division I State Champions!! :notworthy :notworthy

I just hope the people complaining about this call aren't on here a year later complaining about it... But if they are I hope someone is around to repost the video so they can relive it.

Enjoy - 6:00 - 6:37 minute mark.

Bad call? Incidental Contact? or Conspiracy? The video evidence. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLYKaq40olY)

Warmest Regards,

2008 5A Division I State Champions


~

[StonyPoint]

I didn't hardly read any of the thread but I thought that at the time the play happened it was just a jump ball(what I said ET's passing game was anyways) and Carter went up over the defender and came down with the ball. Sure he was out of bounds but it was very very close and hard to see the possession of timing versus leg out if you were the ref watching in full speed. I say in that situation it wasn't a bad call.

I will say that if it was against my team, I would be crying bad call all the way home as I licked my wounds. As a pure spectator though, good enough call.

[StonyPoint]

We agree, It was a catch!! Congratulations to Trinity

2009 5A Division I State Champions!! :notworthy :notworthy

I just hope the people complaining about this call aren't on here a year later complaining about it... But if they are I hope someone is around to repost the video so they can relive it.

Enjoy - 6:00 - 6:37 minute mark.

Bad call? Incidental Contact? or Conspiracy? The video evidence. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLYKaq40olY)

Warmest Regards,

2008 5A Division I State Champions


~

You can clearly see the OPI in the clip but as I have said many times, congrats.

[LR46]

Lets end this ludicrous debate by saying:

S P I L T M I L K OR B E E R does not a touchdown make!!! :D

Foughedaboudit please or I'll have to sick my friend DonGuido on all of ya's!

[Pinion]

Should your support for the fat Mexican fade, we would welcome your support for the large Tongan :D

My support for the FatMexican wont fade.

I can only support one team from DFW and the SLC fans won me last year. Other than that, I have to support my closest 5A. Right now, that's McNeil. That may be changing soon though. I hate to think of me having to support CedarPark, but I may not have a choice. (women...)

And I support my actual school, ECA (shreveport, la.)

And I support my homestate college (LSU) since they're in the SEC and the SEC is better than anyone else.

And I support Glock firearms. GlennBeck. TwinPeaks.Hifonics. and a few other things/people. :eek:

Oh. and I support my kids. I have to send that check once a month or the taxpayers will be supporting me by providing me an 8x8 cell at the county lockup.:eek:

[LR46]

My support for the FatMexican wont fade.

I can only support one team from DFW and the SLC fans won me last year. Other than that, I have to support my closest 5A. Right now, that's McNeil. That may be changing soon though. I hate to think of me having to support CedarPark, but I may not have a choice. (women...)

And I support my actual school, ECA (shreveport, la.)

And I support my homestate college (LSU) since they're in the SEC and the SEC is better than anyone else.

And I support Glock firearms. GlennBeck. TwinPeaks.Hifonics. and a few other things/people. :eek:

Oh. and I support my kids. I have to send that check once a month or the taxpayers will be supporting me by providing me an 8x8 cell at the county lockup.:eek:

Sounds like a wonderful life!??????:rolleyes: Enjoy!

[maxtor]

Single digit posters unite.:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy

[petion2000]

I rewatch it on "youtube." I gotta agree, the player never had complete control until he was down and feet outbound. However, that was a very fast play, and with the absence of instant replay in HS Football, there's no way any referee could have seen that. It was so fast that the referees probably thought that was a catch. It was simple human error, no conspiracy there.

[maxtor]

Did I think it was a touchdown? NO. Did the ref think it was a touchdown? YES. Which opinion matters? HIS

I thought there were several bad calls this game, BOTH ways. They need seven officials on the field for playoff games, PERIOD.

Was there one second on the clock at the half? Definitely YES. I did a stop action on the play when the ball hit the ground and there was a second left.

Should it have been grounding in the endzone on Westlake? I think so.

Was it a legit call against Trinity at the end of regulation? Yes. Did it matter? Definitely NOT. The FG attempt hit only five yards deep in the endzone, so would have still been short from five yards closer.

It was a great game played by two closely matched teams. Could have gone either way.

And by the way, if you think Westlake should have gone for two at the end, you're an idiot. NO coach makes that call at that point of this game.

Youre from Gordon? Heres some people from Gordon;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzae_SqbmDE&feature=PlayList&p=E1B8712EFBBD7DAE&index=0&playnext=1

[TXBALLER]

Won't do any good! The Ref only saw what he wanted to see. Trinity was picked to win, and that's all there is to it!
No shame for Westlake. Incredible effort, brilliant and courageous play from both offense and defense.
LOL u must not know much about the rules of football or just see what u want to see. He caught the ball and hit the ground with his back and had possession at the same time. Once his back touches he is down. Trinity would have scored regardless. Westlake D was wore out. Stop whinning cause the trophy is going to Euless and there is nothing u or any of u haters can do about it.

[TXBALLER]

Great call, great execution and great catch! Way to go Trinity!:notworthy We can all watch it till this time next year and it's still a TD...
yes it was. DFW is still King. It was great to see southlake,Allen and different fans from DFW schools down in san antonio to support the DFW tradition.

[TXBALLER]

Watch it again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWwWlLSWA2Q

He was on his back in the end zone. The controversy will be is the ball seems to be rolling around on his stomach as he's lying on the ground in the end zone. He still doesn't have full possession as he puts his feet out of bounds while he is still lying on his back. HOWEVER, the ball never touches the ground. If a ball is just lying on your body, and you have your arms around the ball as it moves around your body, and your body is on the ground in the end zone, does it matter where your feet end up? You are considered down based on where you BODY is in relation to the field, not where your feet end up.

Everyone here gets the advantage of watching this play in slow motion over and over again. In real time, the play happened in seconds, with Carter jumping up with the ball in his hands. As a ref, you try to get in the best position to get the perfect angle of what occurs at trhe end of the play. Unless the ref was standing right on top of the play to see the ball rolling around on carter's stomach, there is no way he's going to call the end of that play any different. If you want controversial plays like this to stop, implement instant replay. But as we know, that will NEVER happen in high school football. Not unless you want your taxes to skyrocket so the UIL can install big screens and cameras in every high school stadium across the state. :rolleyes:
AMEN. People r still going to argue anyways even when u just explained the rules clearly to them. Some people just can't accept it and move on.LOL Congrads Westlake and Trinity on great seasons and the best state title game I have seen so far.

[FatBoy of Troy]

If you people want conspiracy, how about the Colt McCoy Syndrome the refs had at the end of the half with Westlake's 'extra second'? Take that away and the overtime play is a non-issue. If you disagree with that one, how about the BS flag at the end of the fourth that made the last Trinity field goal and extra 5 yards? ABOUT THE SAME DISTANCE THE KICK WAS SHORT. And you want to call a good catch at the end of overtime a bad call?:confused:
Thank you very much...you stole my thunder. Had the officials made the right call the game would have never went into overtime. At the half they snapped the ball at one second and the clock hit zero BEFORE he spiked the ball. That field goal was a gift from the officals, so don't cry about the officials costing you the game. Point is, with Westlake's offense, Allman should have went for 2 instead of putting the game in OT. He didn't trust his offense to make 2 yards for 2 points. Line weaver trusted his defense to go on defense first in OT...and trusted his offense to get 7.:D

[farmerfan]

NO DOUBT THE CATCH WAS GOOD!! The two ref's calls validated it!!! I don't give a Rat's A$$ what the nay sayers have to say. They can pi$$ and moan forever!! We are the 5A Division I State Champion!!!

Yes you are the state champs and let the whiners whine while you all celebrate the accomplishments of these men. Missed you in SA today.

[TXMike]

LOL u must not know much about the rules of football or just see what u want to see. He caught the ball and hit the ground with his back and had possession at the same time. Once his back touches he is down. Trinity would have scored regardless. Westlake D was wore out. Stop whinning cause the trophy is going to Euless and there is nothing u or any of u haters can do about it.

For somene who "knows the rules" you are clueless on this "catch". If you do not have possession when you hit the grouind it is not a catch. To have a "catch" by rulebook definition you must have firm grasp and contrtol of the ball. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0rF5i4Vx4Y
Are you saying the ball was not bobbled at all as the receiver was coming down?

What the rules say:


Catch, Interception, Recovery
ARTICLE 7. a. To catch a ball means that a player:
1. Gains possession of a live ball in flight; or
2. Leaves his feet and firmly grasps a live ball in flight, the ball first
touching the ground inbounds while still in his firm grasp; or
3. Leaves his feet, firmly grasps a live ball in flight and either first
returns to the ground inbounds with any part of his body or is so held
that the dead-ball provisions of Rule 4-1-3-p apply (A.R. 2-2-7-I-V and
A.R. 7-3-6-IV).
If one foot first lands inbounds and the receiver has possession and
control of the ball, it is a catch even though a subsequent step or fall takes
the receiver out of bounds (A.R. 7-3-6-XVII). A player who satisfies any of
these three conditions is said to have completed a catch.
b. An interception is a catch of an opponent’s pass or fumble.
c. A catch by any kneeling or prone inbounds player is a completion or
interception (Rules 7-3-6 and 7).
d. A player recovers a ball if he fulfills any of the three criteria for catching
a ball that is still alive after hitting the ground.
e. Loss of ball simultaneous to returning to the ground is not a catch,
interception or recovery.
f. When in question, the catch, recovery or interception is not completed.

[farmerfan]

For somene who "knows the rules" you are clueless on this "catch". If you do not have possession when you hit the grouind it is not a catch. To have a "catch" by rulebook definition you must have firm grasp and contrtol of the ball. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0rF5i4Vx4Y
Are you saying the ball was not bobbled at all as the receiver was coming down?

Interesting Mr Ref Mike. After viewing your page where you have uploaded a lot of videos questioning officials I noticed you had three more from this game yesterday, including one where you want to point out a missed call by an official during a Trinity TD run. I also notived that you had in your comments the following
Watch WR at top of screen. (Also actions by runner aftyer score)
... (more info)
(less info)
What exactly was it that we need to look for that Bobby Brown did that you are questioning? I am notcing a pattern here though, you do not seem to care much for Euless Trinity. Oh well those 3 titles they have in their case speak much louder than your 157 youtube question marks

http://www.youtube.com/user/RefMike

[twcpfan1]

It was a good call by the refs based on what they saw in that split second. I thought TD too. Even replay would not have overturned it.

Bad call by Lineweaver though to go for that fade route jump ball to the corner when he's got a virtual uncontested layup with his running game. It worked out but it was a dumb call. Guess his ego or the ghosts of 2006 got the better of him.

[farmerfan]

It was a good call by the refs based on what they saw in that split second. I thought TD too. Even replay would not have overturned it.

Bad call by Lineweaver though to go for that fade route jump ball to the corner when he's got a virtual uncontested layup with his running game. It worked out but it was a dumb call. Guess his ego or the ghosts of 2006 got the better of him.

Bad call?
Seriously?
They hadn't gone to that all game, in fact they hadn't gone down field to Carter all game, they liked the matchup they had at that point and with the down and distance it was the right time to call it. Lineweaver will be placing an order for his 4th ring as a HC sometime next month, so I do not think "his ego" ever gets in the way of making decisions, he simply does what is right for his team to win titles, given his track record I would say he is pretty damn good at that too.

[twcpfan1]

Bad call?
Seriously?
They hadn't gone to that all game, in fact they hadn't gone down field to Carter all game, they liked the matchup they had at that point and with the down and distance it was the right time to call it. Lineweaver will be placing an order for his 4th ring as a HC sometime next month, so I do not think "his ego" ever gets in the way of making decisions, he simply does what is right for his team to win titles, given his track record I would say he is pretty damn good at that too.

If WL had shown the ability to stop the running game, then the call would have made sense. They have not been able to do it all 2nd half. And the WL defender was right there and the ball was thrown up for grabs. That could have been disastrous. Totally unnecessary IMO to take that risk.

[farmerfan]

If WL had shown the ability to stop the running game, then the call would have made sense. They have not been able to do it all 2nd half. And the WL defender was right there and the ball was thrown up for grabs. That could have been disastrous. Totally unnecessary IMO to take that risk.

Westlake was also cheating their safeties up the entire third and 4th quarter, the call was to end the game right there, who's to say that there isn't a stuff in the backfield on 2nd and 3 and or a fumble on either the snap, the handoff or just on a hit?
The call was the right one, the play that Trinity was able to get 7 on first down was a jet sweep type of play, it wasn't the inside running game, Westlake while prepared for the plays to Carter had not seen one all game, going to the fade route allowed Carter to take advantage of the one on one coverage and he was simply a better athlete than the Westlake defender was.
You can continue to question the call all you want, it makes you look foolish though, especially considering the guy you want to question has now won his 4th state title as a HC and 6th overall as a key contributor to a program.
But then again you are a self proclaimed hater of Trinity;)

[twcpfan1]

Westlake was also cheating their safeties up the entire third and 4th quarter, the call was to end the game right there, who's to say that there isn't a stuff in the backfield on 2nd and 3 and or a fumble on either the snap, the handoff or just on a hit?
The call was the right one, the play that Trinity was able to get 7 on first down was a jet sweep type of play, it wasn't the inside running game, Westlake while prepared for the plays to Carter had not seen one all game, going to the fade route allowed Carter to take advantage of the one on one coverage and he was simply a better athlete than the Westlake defender was.
You can continue to question the call all you want, it makes you look foolish though, especially considering the guy you want to question has now won his 4th state title as a HC and 6th overall as a key contributor to a program.
But then again you are a self proclaimed hater of Trinity;)


Would you have made that call in that situation or kept running it?

[farmerfan]

Would you have made that call in that situation or kept running it?

If I were coaching I would have been in the locker room throwing up due to nerves during that play.
I would have called the play that my other coaches and I best thought gave us the chance to win. When Trinity went for it on 4th and 1 earlier in the game I did say I owuld go to the play action, they did and it worked. I am almost as smart as Lineweaver :D

However you have changed your tone from previous post,

In the Hershel Simms thread here is what you said about Lineweaver

Congrats Trinity. You just have a coach who knows all about winning time. The call on 4th and 1 and rolling the dice on that jump ball in the end. Mark of a true winner.


So how could a true winner possibly let his ego get in his way and call a bad play even though he knows all about winning and what it takes? Just curious there buddy :)

[twcpfan1]

If I were coaching I would have been in the locker room throwing up due to nerves during that play.
I would have called the play that my other coaches and I best thought gave us the chance to win. When Trinity went for it on 4th and 1 earlier in the game I did say I owuld go to the play action, they did and it worked. I am almost as smart as Lineweaver :D

However you have changed your tone from previous post,

In the Hershel Simms thread here is what you said about Lineweaver



So how could a true winner possibly let his ego get in his way and call a bad play even though he knows all about winning and what it takes? Just curious there buddy :)

Winners usually have the ego to match. Tiger Woods. Bill Belichick. Steve Lineweaver. Roger Federer. You name it. I never said his ego got in his way. It obviously didn't. And I never questioned Lineweaver being a winner. He is that many times over. I was just questioning why he would make that call in this particular situation. Just like I questioned Belichick's decision at the end of the Indy game. Does not make him a loser. So I guess you would have kept the ball on the ground too?

[Trojan4653]

For somene who "knows the rules" you are clueless on this "catch". If you do not have possession when you hit the grouind it is not a catch. To have a "catch" by rulebook definition you must have firm grasp and contrtol of the ball. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0rF5i4Vx4Y
Are you saying the ball was not bobbled at all as the receiver was coming down?

What the rules say:


Catch, Interception, Recovery
ARTICLE 7. a. To catch a ball means that a player:
1. Gains possession of a live ball in flight; or
2. Leaves his feet and firmly grasps a live ball in flight, the ball first
touching the ground inbounds while still in his firm grasp; or
3. Leaves his feet, firmly grasps a live ball in flight and either first
returns to the ground inbounds with any part of his body or is so held
that the dead-ball provisions of Rule 4-1-3-p apply (A.R. 2-2-7-I-V and
A.R. 7-3-6-IV).
If one foot first lands inbounds and the receiver has possession and
control of the ball, it is a catch even though a subsequent step or fall takes
the receiver out of bounds (A.R. 7-3-6-XVII). A player who satisfies any of
these three conditions is said to have completed a catch.
b. An interception is a catch of an opponent’s pass or fumble.
c. A catch by any kneeling or prone inbounds player is a completion or
interception (Rules 7-3-6 and 7).
d. A player recovers a ball if he fulfills any of the three criteria for catching
a ball that is still alive after hitting the ground.
e. Loss of ball simultaneous to returning to the ground is not a catch,
interception or recovery.
f. When in question, the catch, recovery or interception is not completed.


Thanks for that enlightening post
TRINITY WINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[farmerfan]

Winners usually have the ego to match. Tiger Woods. Bill Belichick. Steve Lineweaver. Roger Federer. You name it. I never said his ego got in his way. It obviously didn't. And I never questioned Lineweaver being a winner. He is that many times over. I was just questioning why he would make that call in this particular situation. Just like I questioned Belichick's decision at the end of the Indy game. Does not make him a loser. So I guess you would have kept the ball on the ground too?

Gotcha. I just misinterpreted it to mean something it didn't my bad.
Lineweaver did make the call though because he plays to win, winners play to win and those content with being average play not to lose.
As for what I would have done, once again with the down and distance I might not have gone to the fade but something more conventional like a play action where I am sending my full back out in the flats and then having my TE follow behind on a 10-12 yard banana type of route with my back side receiver running a post type of pattern. I most definitely was not thinking you have to run the ball or that they were going to win the game by just running the football. As for that situation and what I would have called, once again, thats not as easy of a question to answer as you may think, that was the perfect down and distance to take that type of chance on and obviously the 2009 5A Division 1 state championship coach thought just that. Case closed.
As for me, you are given me too much credit, I would never be able to coach my way into a state championship game, let alone stay competitive in it

[rudedog60]

For somene who "knows the rules" you are clueless on this "catch". If you do not have possession when you hit the grouind it is not a catch. To have a "catch" by rulebook definition you must have firm grasp and contrtol of the ball. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0rF5i4Vx4Y
Are you saying the ball was not bobbled at all as the receiver was coming down?

What the rules say:


Catch, Interception, Recovery
ARTICLE 7. a. To catch a ball means that a player:
1. Gains possession of a live ball in flight; or
2. Leaves his feet and firmly grasps a live ball in flight, the ball first
touching the ground inbounds while still in his firm grasp; or
3. Leaves his feet, firmly grasps a live ball in flight and either first
returns to the ground inbounds with any part of his body or is so held
that the dead-ball provisions of Rule 4-1-3-p apply (A.R. 2-2-7-I-V and
A.R. 7-3-6-IV).
If one foot first lands inbounds and the receiver has possession and
control of the ball, it is a catch even though a subsequent step or fall takes
the receiver out of bounds (A.R. 7-3-6-XVII). A player who satisfies any of
these three conditions is said to have completed a catch.
b. An interception is a catch of an opponent’s pass or fumble.
c. A catch by any kneeling or prone inbounds player is a completion or
interception (Rules 7-3-6 and 7).
d. A player recovers a ball if he fulfills any of the three criteria for catching
a ball that is still alive after hitting the ground.
e. Loss of ball simultaneous to returning to the ground is not a catch,
interception or recovery.
f. When in question, the catch, recovery or interception is not completed.



Let's analyze this rule in regards to this play:

1. Gains possession of a live ball in flight; or
2. Leaves his feet and firmly grasps a live ball in flight, the ball first
touching the ground inbounds while still in his firm grasp; or
3. Leaves his feet, firmly grasps a live ball in flight and either first
returns to the ground inbounds with any part of his body or is so held
that the dead-ball provisions of Rule 4-1-3-p apply (A.R. 2-2-7-I-V and
A.R. 7-3-6-IV).


Watch the video. He did gain possession of the ball in flight as he left his feet to catch the ball. If he didn't have a firm grip of the ball, it wouldn't have been in his stomach when he hit the ground. This satisfies Rule 1 and 2. Since his main torso was inbounds when he hit the ground in the end zone, he met condition Number 3 of this rule.

If one foot first lands inbounds and the receiver has possession and
control of the ball, it is a catch even though a subsequent step or fall takes
the receiver out of bounds (A.R. 7-3-6-XVII). A player who satisfies any of
these three conditions is said to have completed a catch.

This part of the rule is irrelevent, since his body touched the ground before his feet. Since his body was inbounds at the point of contact to the ground within the end zone, it doesn't matter where his feet end up.

e. Loss of ball simultaneous to returning to the ground is not a catch,
interception or recovery.

He didn't lose the ball after he hit the ground. It stayed on top of him, with his arm grabbing the ball after he hit the ground to insure the ball didn't touch the ground before he got up. Conditions are met for this sub-rule.

Again, the only questionable part of this catch is whether he had full possession of the ball after he hit the ground. By what I've seen in the video, he had possession of the ball when he caught it in the air, but bumbled it a little when he hit the ground. Don't know which rule that states this, but I believe the ground cannot cause a fumble or loss of possession of the ball in any circumstance. Anyways, the ball didn't touch the ground before he stood up with the ball. It was on his body, and in his possession. If it had rolled in the end zone, and the ball touched the ground without him having full control of the ball before he got up, then I would agree it was an incomplete pass. That did not occur.

[JagDad07]

If your feet are out of bounds you are out of bounds. When the receiver finally got possession, he was laying in bounds and out of bounds By rule that means he was out of bounds when he completed the catch. To complete a cathc you must have possession and poossession is defined in the rule book as firmly controlling the ball.

Seeing the play at game speed, I would have called him out of bounds. But I had the luxury of seeing it standing still. Seeing the replays, it was a lot closer to being a good catch than I'd originally thought.

You make a gret point that that one play is a sufficient case study on the need for 7 man crews.

[TXMike]

I would hope even those of you who are convinced this was a catch will admit the only view that gives a somewhat definitive view is the one that starts at :34 of the video. The views from the other camera do not show the ball and what is or is not happening with it as that camera is blocked by the receiver's back. The view that starts at :34 shows the ball is loose and on the defender's knee before it falls down on to the receiver's chest. The question then becomes, is any part odf his body touching the white when he finally manages to control the ball with his right forearm?

[yallerjacket2]

Just watched the replay a couple more times. Sorry, he caught that ball in bounds legit! I feel comfortable posting this. He had possession before his foot touched the ground out of bounds.

No he didn't and you know it.

I watched the replay 5 or 6 times and every time I watched his foot touch out of bounds, then looked up at the ball and he was still juggling it.

I still think Trinity was the better team and deserves the championship. Just wasn't a catch, period.

[JagDad07]

TXBALLER,

Do you know who you are arguing the rules with? Do you know what TxMike does for a living?

[TXMike]

Again, the only questionable part of this catch is whether he had full possession of the ball after he hit the ground. By what I've seen in the video, he had possession of the ball when he caught it in the air, but bumbled it a little when he hit the ground. Don't know which rule that states this, but I believe the ground cannot cause a fumble or loss of possession of the ball in any circumstance

Yet another widely stated and believed (but false) statement. The ground CAN (in rare cases) cause a fumble and the ground definitely CAN (in many cases) cause an incomplete pass.

Example: Runner loses his balance and holds teh ball in one hand as he struggles to regain balance. He puts that hand with the ball down towards the ground, the ball hits the ground and pops loose. That IS a fumble.

There is a difference between an airborne receiver and an airborne runner. To be a runner you must have had possession by rule defintion before you were airborne. The receiver does not have possession until he comes to ground and demonstrate possession AFTER touching ground. If ball pops loos as airborne receiver hits ground it is an incomplete pass, If ball comes loose as an airborne RUNNER hits ground, it is NOT a fumble as ball is dead (assuming something besides his hand or feet touch the ground first).

[Boss Hawgette]

I would hope even those of you who are convinced this was a catch will admit the only view that gives a somewhat definitive view is the one that starts at :34 of the video. The views from the other camera do not show the ball and what is or is not happening with it as that camera is blocked by the receiver's back. The view that starts at :34 shows the ball is loose and on the defender's knee before it falls down on to the receiver's chest. The question then becomes, is any part odf his body touching the white when he finally manages to control the ball with his right forearm?

It seems that you are arguing the integrity or judgement of your peer in stripes. I hope some day your integrity or judgement is called out in this manner.

[Boss Hawgette]

Winners usually have the ego to match. Tiger Woods. Bill Belichick. Steve Lineweaver. Roger Federer. You name it. I never said his ego got in his way. It obviously didn't. And I never questioned Lineweaver being a winner. He is that many times over. I was just questioning why he would make that call in this particular situation. Just like I questioned Belichick's decision at the end of the Indy game. Does not make him a loser. So I guess you would have kept the ball on the ground too?

That's your OPINION. Tiger Woods and Bill Belichick both have the money to support their egos...Lineweaver does not. The many folks that know him would take offense to you implying that he has a big ego. I do know him personally and can attest that he is a humble man. Also, the play calling is typically up to the offensive coordinater, or at least by committee of offensive coaches.

[twcpfan1]

That's your OPINION. Tiger Woods and Bill Belichick both have the money to support their egos...Lineweaver does not. The many folks that know him would take offense to you implying that he has a big ego. I do know him personally and can attest that he is a humble man. Also, the play calling is typically up to the offensive coordinater, or at least by committee of offensive coaches.

I also called him 'a winner many times over' But I'm sorry if I offended.

Lineweaver has to have a lot of self confidence to be as successful as he is. Or is that not right either? Just saying it might have clouded his judgment this one particular time. Would you have thrown up the jump ball or kept it on the ground after WL was limited to a FG? All I'm asking.

[TXMike]

It seems that you are arguing the integrity or judgement of your peer in stripes. I hope some day your integrity or judgement is called out in this manner.

My judgment is frequently "called out", happens weekly. I suspect this ref I suspect is like me and knows that every call is subject to being "called out" What I am NOT calling out, although many fans routinely do so, is the ref's integrity. He called what he saw. He did not make it up. In another life I talk to witnesses of crimes. They often report things they "saw" that are contrary to what the surveillance video shows. It is not because they are lying. It is because what people "see" is not always what actually happened.

[chhspantherfan]

My judgment is frequently "called out", happens weekly. I suspect this ref I suspect is like me and knows that every call is subject to being "called out" What I am NOT calling out, although many fans routinely do so, is the ref's integrity. He called what he saw. He did not make it up. In another life I talk to witnesses of crimes. They often report things they "saw" that are contrary to what the surveillance video shows. It is not because they are lying. It is because what people "see" is not always what actually happened.

so you investigate illegal mayhem and legal mayhem. Got to be tough keeping the right hat on at times? :D

[CCDawgs]

Is there anywhere I can watch the catch? I didnt get to catch the first game. :(

[chhspantherfan]

Is there anywhere I can watch the catch? I didnt get to catch the first game. :(

http://forums.5atexasfootball.com/showpost.php?p=1432748&postcount=66

[rudedog60]

Yet another widely stated and believed (but false) statement. The ground CAN (in rare cases) cause a fumble and the ground definitely CAN (in many cases) cause an incomplete pass.

Example: Runner loses his balance and holds teh ball in one hand as he struggles to regain balance. He puts that hand with the ball down towards the ground, the ball hits the ground and pops loose. That IS a fumble.

There is a difference between an airborne receiver and an airborne runner. To be a runner you must have had possession by rule defintion before you were airborne. The receiver does not have possession until he comes to ground and demonstrate possession AFTER touching ground. If ball pops loos as airborne receiver hits ground it is an incomplete pass, If ball comes loose as an airborne RUNNER hits ground, it is NOT a fumble as ball is dead (assuming something besides his hand or feet touch the ground first).


The thing is, the ball didn't 'pop loose' when he hit the ground. It stayed on top of his body after he hit the ground. The only part of the decison you are questioning is whether he had his arms completely around the ball before he stood up, and his feet were out of bounds. Also, if you look at the video, the AW defensive player is rolling around with Carter after he caught the ball. It appears as if he 'pushed' Carter towards the out of bounds area with his body. If the defensive player wouldn't have made contact with him after he hit the ground, then Carter may have been in bounds when he stood up in the end zone. Wouldn't the rule that states if a defensive player makes contact with an offensive player, and forces the offensive player out of bounds before he makes contact with the ground, then the offensive player is considered 'in bounds' and the pass is ruled complete?

As many have stated, this all happened in a matter of seconds at the very end of a highly heated and competitive game. I imagine the ref closest to the play saw Carter stand up with the ball in his hand, and didn't even relaize where both his feet were at the time. Even if he did, he probably determine the play was over when he saw him stand up with the ball after making contact with the ground within the boundaries of the end zone. If he had fallen and rolled out of bounds after making the catch, I would be pretty sure the ref would have called it an incomplete pass.

[FatBoy of Troy]

How much more impartial can you get than I? It's a catch! A geat one at that. No pushing off like Allen did to our DB last year. He cut under and took the ball away. Yea, not a clean catch but the ball never touched the ground and look who came away with the possession!

My only question, why did Trinity's offense take so long to show up?
It took that long to wear Westlake's defensive line down. They were for REAL.:notworthy 4th quarter we started playing our game and started slamming the ball 5-7 yards up their gut. It just took a while.:eek: A testament to their conditioning.

[TXMike]

The thing is, the ball didn't 'pop loose' when he hit the ground. It stayed on top of his body after he hit the ground. ...... Also, if you look at the video, the AW defensive player is rolling around with Carter after he caught the ball. It appears as if he 'pushed' Carter towards the out of bounds area with his body. If the defensive player wouldn't have made contact with him after he hit the ground, then Carter may have been in bounds when he stood up in the end zone. Wouldn't the rule that states if a defensive player makes contact with an offensive player, and forces the offensive player out of bounds before he makes contact with the ground, then the offensive player is considered 'in bounds' and the pass is ruled complete?

That is NOT the rule in NCAA (which are the rules we use in Texas HS football.) If the defender "forces out" the receiver before receiver can come down in bounds, it is incomplete.

And the ball laying on top of a body is "loose".

[drgnbkr]

That's your OPINION. Tiger Woods and Bill Belichick both have the money to support their egos...Lineweaver does not. The many folks that know him would take offense to you implying that he has a big ego. I do know him personally and can attest that he is a humble man. Also, the play calling is typically up to the offensive coordinater, or at least by committee of offensive coaches.

According to this mornings paper, the offensive coordinator asked Coach Lineweaver if he could call the fade, Lineweaver closed his eyes and said, "do it"...Great call!

[Football4life]

No catch ground caused the fumble... But honestly what makes you think
WL can stop Trinity on 3rd and 1

[MALAMEDICINA]

someone said this earlier, but here it goes again, no catch, that still would have been 3rd and 1, while the runs were getting 5 to 7 yards a pop consistently during the last drives of the game, the same outcome was inevitable, just later on, and in different fashion, maybe down their throat, a little more depressing than a catch

[Boss Hawgette]

I also called him 'a winner many times over' But I'm sorry if I offended.

Lineweaver has to have a lot of self confidence to be as successful as he is. Or is that not right either? Just saying it might have clouded his judgment this one particular time. Would you have thrown up the jump ball or kept it on the ground after WL was limited to a FG? All I'm asking.

The winner part I can handle, the ego part not so much :D

Trinity has a great offensive coordinater in Coach Jensen and some guys in the box that are very cool under pressure. I have no idea how the conversation over the headsets went. You know Westlake had to be expecting a run up the gut for 1 yard so why not try to catch them off guard with that fade? Brandon Carter has proven himself in the clutch many times this season and when the game is on the line you want the ball in the hands of someone like that.

[KT2000]

The play happened right in front of me. I had a great view. Firstly, incredible pass and effort by Carter. What a stud!

The official fell down and that was unfortunate. Carter had two hands on the ball as he came down and his body was underneath him as he fell to the ground on his back. When he hit the ground, the ball moved from the force of the impact and he had to re-secure it with his hands while he was on his back.

I don't blame the official because it was just an unfortunate circumstance. He saw Carter with the ball secured and could not have ruled incomplete due to falling down.

[ThePoint]

First of all -
Congrats to Trinity - you did what you had to do to win. You are and will always be 2009 State Champs!:notworthy
Westlake - great effort - congrats on a great season and representing the other side of the bracket well.:notworthy

Second - close calls - final answers
It was too painful for a sTp fan to go to the dome to watch, so I watched the game on my life size 72" inch screen on DVR (love that media room!).

When the clock ran out on the WL spike - watching live, I thought it expired - I went frame by frame and the official was waving his hands "incomplete" with some portion of 1 second left on the TV clock.
On the WL end zone grounding - they never showed enough of a wide angle view to see if there was a reciever in the area - there was a player there, not sure it was an eligible reciever.
On the Final play - Live, I said "no catch" and was suprised to see the ref come running in and make the TD call. Upon a frame by frame review of both angles showed on TV - their is no question that it was not a catch. While the ball was on his chest while he was laying on the ground, he did not control it until his feet had already touched the white out of bounds stripe. One announcer picked up on it after about 4 replays, but the other announcer cut him off and shut down the controversy quick.
Does it matter? - NOPE - ET would have likely scored anyway since it would have been 3rd and 3 and they were moving the ball with relative ease. Only person it matters to is the WL defender that feels bad today feeling he he gave up that "catch" that cost them the state title - he should take some solice in knowing he made a good defensive play and broke up the great effort to catch the ball by #10.
Again, ET team - congrats!!!
ET nation - enjoy the win - this official error is just one of many that happens each week. It is part of the game. The game that you won!

The only thing that should change as a result of this and other issues this year is to go to 7 officials for the 2nd round of the playoffs through the championship game.

See ya' next year!!

[Trinity Alum]

According to this mornings paper, the offensive coordinator asked Coach Lineweaver if he could call the fade, Lineweaver closed his eyes and said, "do it"...Great call!

I saw that too. :D Great job by the coaching staff once again.

[Tsup]

hmm how many rings do you have ? I don't think you questioning Lineweaver holds any weight. It was a good call by the refs based on what they saw in that split second. I thought TD too. Even replay would not have overturned it.

Bad call by Lineweaver though to go for that fade route jump ball to the corner when he's got a virtual uncontested layup with his running game. It worked out but it was a dumb call. Guess his ego or the ghosts of 2006 got the better of him.

[twcpfan1]

hmm how many rings do you have ? I don't think you questioning Lineweaver holds any weight.

You know what's funny? Not one person has told me that they would have made the same call. It was not just a pass. It was aired up for grabs. If it's picked off, it's over. The other alternative is to run it up the gut and pick up 1 yard. You have 2 downs to get it against a team that has not stopped you the entire half. He could have 100 rings. I'll still question the reasoning behind that one call. I repeat. One call.

[KT2000]

You know what's funny? Not one person has told me that they would have made the same call. It was not just a pass. It was aired up for grabs. If it's picked off, it's over. The other alternative is to run it up the gut and pick up 1 yard. You have 2 downs to get it against a team that has not stopped you the entire half. He could have 100 rings. I'll still question the reasoning behind that one call. I repeat. One call.

That play is actually fairly low risk if it is executed as designed. It will either be caught or land out of bounds. Trinity had exactly what is required on the play, single coverage. Carter is an exceptional athlete and that's why you run that kind of play. Trinity wasn't running that play for Joe Schmo. No offense to Joe. Brandon Carter, ladies and gentlemen. Certifiable STUD.

[Tsup]

one of Lineweavers great strong points is...he will do what you least expect. he does it over and over and over so whats different about this call ?I also called him 'a winner many times over' But I'm sorry if I offended.

Lineweaver has to have a lot of self confidence to be as successful as he is. Or is that not right either? Just saying it might have clouded his judgment this one particular time. Would you have thrown up the jump ball or kept it on the ground after WL was limited to a FG? All I'm asking.

[MALAMEDICINA]

it takes someone with big sllab to make that call, i think you are right on that. Caught them off guard? yes everyone but the corner that could have had it, My trojans were destined to win, but man ole man our coach has some freakin guts.

[twcpfan1]

That play is actually fairly low risk if it is executed as designed. It will either be caught or land out of bounds. Trinity had exactly what is required on the play, single coverage. Carter is an exceptional athlete and that's why you run that kind of play. Trinity wasn't running that play for Joe Schmo. No offense to Joe. Brandon Carter, ladies and gentlemen. Certifiable STUD.

It could be Jerry Rice at his best running the route. I still would have kept it on the ground under those circumstances. I'm guessing you would too with that Offensive Line, a great RB and a great running QB.

[KT2000]

It could be Jerry Rice at his best running the route. I still would have kept it on the ground under those circumstances. I'm guessing you would too with that Offensive Line, a great RB and a great running QB.

I probably would have run the ball, but that's also probably why I'm not a coach. Coaches earn their money to make those kind of calls. Trinity got exactly what they wanted on that play. Single coverage with the best athlete on the field.

[twcpfan1]

it takes someone with big sllab to make that call, i think you are right on that. Caught them off guard? yes everyone but the corner that could have had it, My trojans were destined to win, but man ole man our coach has some freakin guts.

It didn't fool anybody. The WL corner was right there and defended it well. The INT and the loss was definitely put in play when there was no need to do it.

[twcpfan1]

I probably would have run the ball, but that's also probably why I'm not a coach. Coaches earn their money to make those kind of calls. Trinity got exactly what they wanted on that play. Single coverage with the best athlete on the field.

Of course, had Allman gone for 2, we wouldn't even be having this conversation :D

[MALAMEDICINA]

no as many guts as coach line, Allman needs to take a drive to the not better off part of Austin , and get a plate or two of some good ole mexican MENUDO!!!
cow intestines and tripe, with homony, good for hangovers people.:eek:

[semi68]

FYI. Sorry if this has already been posted. This is a replay of the catch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAXyV12sZ7E

[twcpfan1]

FYI. Sorry if this has already been posted. This is a replay of the catch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAXyV12sZ7E

He never controlled it. But even with the replay we needed 2 or 3 looks. Refs had a split second. Poetic justice in any case. The FG at the end of the half should have never been given to WL. Guess you always give teams from Austin the benefit of Home Field clock :D

[Bruig]

Lineweaver knew what he was doing when he made that call to throw to Carter. The Carter/Potter match up was similar to the Carter/SP White match up from the previous game. I'm not sure how tall Potter is, Carter is 5'11". Potter looked a lot like White when compared to Carter height wise. Lineweaver knew that Carter had the ability to use his height and vertical jump to get above the defenders. Everyone can second guess and say what the hell was Lineweaver thinking. All I can say was it was a brilliant call by Lineweaver and now I see the reaction that I said before the game I would see. I think we can call it the "Lineweaver WTH Factor" where we are all sitting here saying, I can't believe he called that play and it worked.

http://forums.5atexasfootball.com/showpost.php?p=1431834&postcount=551

[maxtor]

nm

[maxtor]

That's your OPINION. Tiger Woods and Bill Belichick both have the money to support their egos...Lineweaver does not. The many folks that know him would take offense to you implying that he has a big ego. I do know him personally and can attest that he is a humble man. Also, the play calling is typically up to the offensive coordinater, or at least by committee of offensive coaches.

Lineweaver DOES have an ego. The first day of practice in the summer he showed up in a Limo wearing sunglasses and full length mink coat and 12 people in his entourage'.:laugh Or was that Roy Williams? I forget.
Can you just see that? lol

[maxtor]

My judgment is frequently "called out", happens weekly. I suspect this ref I suspect is like me and knows that every call is subject to being "called out" What I am NOT calling out, although many fans routinely do so, is the ref's integrity. He called what he saw. He did not make it up. In another life I talk to witnesses of crimes. They often report things they "saw" that are contrary to what the surveillance video shows. It is not because they are lying. It is because what people "see" is not always what actually happened.

That is called a catch at least 95% of the time. Although it wasn't technically a catch it certainly was consistent with what is acceptable and usual. IMO I think it might have raised more eyebrows if he DIDN'T call it a catch.:)

[maxtor]

one of Lineweavers great strong points is...he will do what you least expect. he does it over and over and over so whats different about this call ?

Thats what I love about Lineweaver. The dude has chunked in the trash long ago the book, "Football Coaches guidebook to predictable and hyper conservative play calling".

Fake punt from his own 15? Git ya some of dat.

Heck, "___ ______" punted on the opponents 40 on 4th and 1 while we were making 6 yards a pop on the ground for the team that I follow. Truly surreal.

[maxtor]

no as many guts as coach line, Allman needs to take a drive to the not better off part of Austin , and get a plate or two of some good ole mexican MENUDO!!!
cow intestines and tripe, with homony, good for hangovers people.:eek:

I can eat just about anything. Menudo just really isnt that good. Not to mention that foam rubber textured tripe.:o

[dragonsdaddy]

one has to return to his hc beginnings to see lineweaver's makeup. he was castigated severely when he went for the win rathwer than the state co-championship while at commerce. i'm sure the locals were fit to be tied(pun intended). he never looked back or rued the choice, i'm sure. he has since shown to be a shrewd gambler. i would really hate to face him in a make or break poker game. seems the ones who are chastizing him over this need to get their coaching resume together and show him/us how it's done.

[trojanbacker]

one has to return to his hc beginnings to see lineweaver's makeup. he was castigated severely when he went for the win rathwer than the state co-championship while at commerce. i'm sure the locals were fit to be tied(pun intended). he never looked back or rued the choice, i'm sure. he has since shown to be a shrewd gambler. i would really hate to face him in a make or break poker game. seems the ones who are chastizing him over this need to get their coaching resume together and show him/us how it's done.

Lineweaver has been quoted as saying about those calls: "Thankfully, I have a short memory."

Great call. Great execution. Great catch. TD. Game Over. Trophy Awarded. Team Back Home. Celebration at Hand.

[maxtor]

one has to return to his hc beginnings to see lineweaver's makeup. he was castigated severely when he went for the win rathwer than the state co-championship while at commerce. i'm sure the locals were fit to be tied(pun intended). he never looked back or rued the choice, i'm sure. he has since shown to be a shrewd gambler. i would really hate to face him in a make or break poker game. seems the ones who are chastizing him over this need to get their coaching resume together and show him/us how it's done.


True. Another thing to remember is that Linewaever is known as a gambler to the opposing coaches. Thus, these coaches modify their play calling on other plays that we dont see based on this knowledge. There is a benefit to being a gambler in that the opposing team compromises their position in having to anticipate fake punts/trick plays etc.

[Trojan Fan]

My judgment is frequently "called out", happens weekly. I suspect this ref I suspect is like me and knows that every call is subject to being "called out" What I am NOT calling out, although many fans routinely do so, is the ref's integrity. He called what he saw. He did not make it up. In another life I talk to witnesses of crimes. They often report things they "saw" that are contrary to what the surveillance video shows. It is not because they are lying. It is because what people "see" is not always what actually happened.

So whats your problem?
He called what he saw, get over it......
We won...

[bigdaddydog]

You can clearly see the OPI in the clip but as I have said many times, congrats.

Here is my point, YOU can clearly see OPI in the clip while I do not see any OPI. I could waste a bunch of time and energy to try and convince you that it was not OPI, but I doubt that you would change your mind.

While I appreciate the fact that you have said congratulations, your continued insistance that the Allen WR pushed off your DB tells me something entirely differrent.

Reminds me of the Lesson that I have taught my 20yo daughter over and over again. Watch what the boy does, not what he says. That will tell you where his heart is.

I sincerely hope this current flap does not keep coming up years later, but it likely will and that will say more about the individuals bringing it up than the incident itself.

Cheers,

Merry Christmas !!!


~

[newarmy12]

Single digit posters unite.

Gotta start somewhere, right? :rolleyes:

[stinger]

I am an impartial observer and I don't even want to hear that trinity deserved that win after that crap I'm not the die hard high school football fan I used to be that's why I don't post on here anymore and after watching that take place I'm glad I do not take this as seriously as I used to. To you westlake fans I'm sorry that you guys got robbed. Should have put that game away when you had the chance congrats on a great season


Then quit posting again...crybaby!!

[TrojanMom88]

Lineweaver has been quoted as saying about those calls: "Thankfully, I have a short memory."

Great call. Great execution. Great catch. TD. Game Over. Trophy Awarded. Team Back Home. Celebration at Hand.


Finally....BOY!!! I thought I was going to freeze to death waiting on them!!

[stinger]

The receiver has to maintain possession of the ball until both feet hit the ground in this situation, not when the ball crosses the goal line. it's not a touchdown in the college or pros the instant he catches the ball and crosses the goal line, why should it be a touchdown in high school? They have to maintain control through contact with the ground. He clearly did not have possession when his feet hit the ground, and he did not have clear full possession until BOTH legs were sitting out of bounds. Not a touchdown! At the next level that call is reviewed and reversed 101% of the time. The evidence is indisputable.


Wrong newbie!!! The defender's momentum can force the receiver out of bounds during the tackle/play without the feet touching. What if he gets hit, up-ended, his chest hits in bounds across the goal line? In other words...YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!

[stinger]

If your feet are out of bounds you are out of bounds. When the receiver finally got possession, he was laying in bounds and out of bounds By rule that means he was out of bounds when he completed the catch. To complete a cathc you must have possession and poossession is defined in the rule book as firmly controlling the ball.


Does Westlake always cry foul when they lose a big one??/ Money can't talk here!!!!!

[TXMike]

Wrong newbie!!! The defender's momentum can force the receiver out of bounds during the tackle/play without the feet touching.
And if that happens it is an incomplete pass.

Does Westlake always cry foul when they lose a big one??/ Money can't talk here!!!!!

Not from Westlake and not "crying foul", and defnitely don't have money, just stating some facts.

[stinger]

TXBALLER,

Do you know who you are arguing the rules with? Do you know what TxMike does for a living?



Yep...He argues with his wife...AND STILL GETS IT WRONG!!!

[drgnbkr]

True. Another thing to remember is that Linewaever is known as a gambler to the opposing coaches. Thus, these coaches modify their play calling on other plays that we dont see based on this knowledge. There is a benefit to being a gambler in that the opposing team compromises their position in having to anticipate fake punts/trick plays etc.

It is strange that a lot of the same posters who called Coach Lineweaver dumb and worse when he decided to call the fake punt against Carroll and lost, are now saying he was dumb yesterday with the fade call and won...???:confused: I say most teams in the state would love to have him!

[JagFan]

It is strange that a lot of the same posters who called Coach Lineweaver dumb and worse when he decided to call the fake punt against Carroll and lost, are now saying he was dumb yesterday with the fade call and won...???:confused: I say most teams in the state would love to have him!

:notworthy Yep!

[Trinity75]

the call was bad...it as an incomplete pass. i wish the trinity fans would simply admit that they were the beneficiaries of a bad call. it is nothing to be ashamed of. every team wins a game here or there where a bad call assists them. just be honest with yourselves and the rest of the fanbase and admit the call on the field was wrong. the kid never gained full possession of the ball until after his leg touched out of bounds.

the ref called it like he saw it, even if it was the wrong call. i am cool with that. i am not cool with the blindness of the trinity fans. just admit the gift and its all good.

You are correct in all of your comments. And that was the correct call just before halftime saying there was 1 second left on the clock to allow Westlake to kick the field goal. If the refs would have made the incorrect call there would not gave been an Overtime. But the Refs really wanted to see a Great game and see if Trinity was really worth their weight in salt. But overall it was a good game and the Refs finally called a penalty on Westlake at the most unappropriate time too. I thought that sucked. Who knows maybe the Chaps would have made another play call and scored. Oh well it's all behind us now. WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS!! No one can make a Bad Call about that.


GO TROJANS!! T's UP!!

[2000NSMustang!!!]

You know what I find it very funny that a call that should have been called didnt go one teams way and that team fans are called crybaby's and told to suck it up because they lost, but if the shoe was on the other foot then the other team fans would be saying the same thing in their team got robbed. Bad calls are made all of the time in football and there have been plenty of them this season. Was it a bad call, yes because the a reciever from katy caught a ball falling out of bounds and juggled the ball out of bounds and the refs said he didnt have control of the ball, now the same happened to the trinity player but it was called a touchdown. Conspiracy, not at all, a bad call yes it happens. Congratulations Trinity on the exciting win and congrats to westlake on a great game and fine season. Merry Christmas and a happy new year to all.

[Favpack]

Regarding Lineweaver's decision - you admire him for being "gutsy" and a "riverboat gambler" - but at the end of the day No. 11 for WL had his hands on the ball on his back and was literally a millisecond away from an INT before Carter took the ball back.

Other than a false start or fumble - both very unlikely for this ET squad down there - the only other thing to beat you is a "cute call" like a fade route that goes bad - and this one was extremely lucky to have not gone bad. Had 11 simply secured the ball the Chaps would be state champs.

The odds of WL keeping ET from running for a TD are literally almost non-existent - it simply was not going to happen.

[Favpack]

And, the perpetual whining is amazing. If it had been ruled incomplete, ET would have simply come to it's senses - realized how lucky they were on the almost pick - and run in for a td on the next play.

[saMavsFan]

Wow, can't believe this went on for 9 pages. Stopped reading at 2. Congrats to Trinity. State Champions for the 3rd time in 5 years. Quite an accomplishment.

Westlake, I was pulling for you guys the whole way. Damned hard fight. Amazing watching the Chaps throughout the playoffs. Hope your heads are held high because you deserve all the praise in the world.

Hell of a season guys!

[farmerfan]

Regarding Lineweaver's decision - you admire him for being "gutsy" and a "riverboat gambler" - but at the end of the day No. 11 for WL had his hands on the ball on his back and was literally a millisecond away from an INT before Carter took the ball back.

Other than a false start or fumble - both very unlikely for this ET squad down there - the only other thing to beat you is a "cute call" like a fade route that goes bad - and this one was extremely lucky to have not gone bad. Had 11 simply secured the ball the Chaps would be state champs.

The odds of WL keeping ET from running for a TD are literally almost non-existent - it simply was not going to happen.

That ball was never goling to be picked, Carter had control of the ball and what was going to happen the entire time, meaning if it wasn't going to be a catch he was going to make dang sure it was not going to be picked, the ball was thrown in a spot to where the int was never in doubt.

As for your saying that Trinity would not have fumbled I guess you never saw the Arlington High game did you? Ask the Trojan fans there how mnay snaps and handoffs went bad for Trinity

[Trinity Alum]

That ball was never goling to be picked, Carter had control of the ball and what was going to happen the entire time, meaning if it wasn't going to be a catch he was going to make dang sure it was not going to be picked, the ball was thrown in a spot to where the int was never in doubt.

As for your saying that Trinity would not have fumbled I guess you never saw the Arlington High game did you? Ask the Trojan fans there how mnay snaps and handoffs went bad for Trinity

Please don't remind us Farmer. :eek:

[jbusch]

Finally....BOY!!! I thought I was going to freeze to death waiting on them!!

Evidently you weren't one of those unfortunates that wandered in front of the fire hose

[Boss Hawgette]

Lineweaver DOES have an ego. The first day of practice in the summer he showed up in a Limo wearing sunglasses and full length mink coat and 12 people in his entourage'.:laugh Or was that Roy Williams? I forget.
Can you just see that? lol

No, no, no...you have it all wrong. That was Jerry "I am the Cowboys" Jones

[Boss Hawgette]

I am an impartial observer and I don't even want to hear that trinity deserved that win after that crap I'm not the die hard high school football fan I used to be that's why I don't post on here anymore and after watching that take place I'm glad I do not take this as seriously as I used to. To you westlake fans I'm sorry that you guys got robbed. Should have put that game away when you had the chance congrats on a great season

Could really care less of what you think of me man those kids you speak of won that game from an adult handing it to them. But hey if you want to support a game that was not legit you keep yyoudoing that shows what kid of character you have

The more I read your posts in this thread the more it seems like you're just a bitter old man who gets his rocks off trying to steal the spotlight from the players who deserve it. The players I speak of came back from a 14 point deficit against an amazing Westlake team. To say that the ref handed it to us is asinine...were they handing the game to Westlake when they made no calls in regulation against them? Go back and hide under the rock from which you came from and let these tireless, hard working young men enjoy their moment to shine.

[ths1987]

[QUOTE=twcpfan1;1433266]Winners usually have the ego to match. Tiger Woods. Bill Belichick. Steve Lineweaver. Roger Federer.



You ABSOLUTELY DO NOT KNOW STEVE LINEWEAVER. That man does not, never had or ever will have an ego. Do not group him with those egomaniacs.


Great job Trinity Trojans! CONGRATULATIONS on your 3rd State Title in 5 years.

[TheScout]

All I have to say is:

Holding by Westlake the whole game......no call...no problem.... they're letting them play.

Intentional grounding...2 points and the ball go to Trinity....no call.....now I'm pissed.

FG at the end of the half....could go wither way....went to offense

Seemed like the most of the game, that the offense had the benefit of the doubt on most calls. Same for the last play. Could have been called both ways....they called in favor of the offense.

If calls are made correctly, I think Trinity wins in regulation by 2.

They didn't so they went to OT

Game over.

[GoOwls]

Oh my God....what a load of crap this thread is.

I'm impartial...got no dog in that fight.

The ref that was right on the call made, the call he saw, and he made an accurate call from his vantage point. The only camera angle that showed the ball had actually rolled out of the receivers hands was the one from the endzone....opposite the view of the ref.....as far as he could see, the ball was a legit catch....period.....game over.

If Westlake had wanted to win the game, shut up and win it before OT.....then this would not have been an issue.....you let them back in the game....anything can happen after that....and it did.

[BigFoot]

Which play were you people watching? I've seen the replay at least three times since the game completed. I JUST SAW IT AGAIN. He jumped up and caught the ball right at the goal, fell down INBOUNDS inside the goal line onto his back, then rolled where his feet were out of bounds. HOW IS THAT A BAD CATCH? The ball was in his possession when his BODY crossed the plane of the goal line. Are you trying to say the catch isn't complete until his feet are on the ground? If so, you people need to go back to Football 101 and learn the rules.

The voice of reason...Agreed it he was down on his back with possession.
The only time it would not be good would be if he went out of bounds with the ball bobbling. His back hit in bounds with the ball. Catch TD!!
His feet were in bounds in the air with ball in hand. We could go over this game play by play and find calls made or not made. Problem remains that
none of that matters today. Done ET are State Champs. Why do people always have to make a game about one play? There were many that could have been called another way but weren't and I promise there were some called wrong on both teams.

Good Job Trojan!!!!

[yankee]

If Westlake had wanted to win the game, shut up and win it before OT.....then this would not have been an issue.....you let them back in the game....anything can happen after that....and it did.

bingo.

/endthread.

[TrinityTrojan80]

All I have to say is:

Holding by Westlake the whole game......no call...no problem.... they're letting them play.

Intentional grounding...2 points and the ball go to Trinity....no call.....now I'm pissed.

FG at the end of the half....could go wither way....went to offense

Seemed like the most of the game, that the offense had the benefit of the doubt on most calls. Same for the last play. Could have been called both ways....they called in favor of the offense.

If calls are made correctly, I think Trinity wins in regulation by 2.

They didn't so they went to OT

Game over.

I'll add something that the TV anouncers did not pick up on. When regulation was about to end. Westlake had a short pass that the CB tackled the WR for no gain, inbounds. The clock was 1:11 at the time of the tackle. The clock stopped for about two seconds then started running again to 1:08 and stopped again. Lineweaver noticed it while Westlake was getting the play from the sidelines and started screaming at the ref. There were about 40 seconds that did not run off the clock. Finally the ref stopped the play just when they snapped it and then re-set the clock at 1:07 and started the playclock with the game clock stopped. On TV the announcers just said something to the effect that they just took away a second from the time, "I don't think Coach Allman liked that."

Oh and my DVR didn't catch the end of the game and I was courious what the penalty on Trinity was just before the last FG attempt. At the game we didn't see anything at all.

[yallerjacket2]

The voice of reason...Agreed it he was down on his back with possession.
The only time it would not be good would be if he went out of bounds with the ball bobbling. His back hit in bounds with the ball. Catch TD!!
His feet were in bounds in the air with ball in hand. We could go over this game play by play and find calls made or not made. Problem remains that
none of that matters today. Done ET are State Champs. Why do people always have to make a game about one play? There were many that could have been called another way but weren't and I promise there were some called wrong on both teams.

Good Job Trojan!!!!

That's exactly what happened. :confused:

I don't blame the ref for the call, but people who have seen the replay and still think it's a catch don't understand the rules very well.

[chhspantherfan]

I'll add something that the TV anouncers did not pick up on. When regulation was about to end. Westlake had a short pass that the CB tackled the WR for no gain, inbounds. The clock was 1:11 at the time of the tackle. The clock stopped for about two seconds then started running again to 1:08 and stopped again. Lineweaver noticed it while Westlake was getting the play from the sidelines and started screaming at the ref. There were about 40 seconds that did not run off the clock. Finally the ref stopped the play just when they snapped it and then re-set the clock at 1:07 and started the playclock with the game clock stopped. On TV the announcers just said something to the effect that they just took away a second from the time, "I don't think Coach Allman liked that."

Oh and my DVR didn't catch the end of the game and I was courious what the penalty on Trinity was just before the last FG attempt. At the game we didn't see anything at all.


11th player to come on field didn't get inside the numbers, I believe. Would have to watch it again, but i think that is what they called.

[stinger]

That's exactly what happened. :confused:

I don't blame the ref for the call, but people who have seen the replay and still think it's a catch don't understand the rules very well.



And you do???I think not. Why does it matter so much to you? Game over, Trinity would have run it in anyway. Here you are, calling a game using what the refs don't have, being so righteous in your judgement. Get a life, maybe your boys in your town will get the same chance next year. Seems like last year the post game complaining involving the same team was the order of the day. See some parallels here????

[yallerjacket2]

And you do???I think not. Why does it matter so much to you? Game over, Trinity would have run it in anyway. Here you are, calling a game using what the refs don't have, being so righteous in your judgement. Get a life, maybe your boys in your town will get the same chance next year. Seems like last year the post game complaining involving the same team was the order of the day. See some parallels here????

Being righteous in my judgement??? I just said I don't blame the official for the call. He didn't have the benefit of looking at the replay like we do. I also said earlier I think Trinity was the better team and would have won anyway. As far as parallels, I have no idea what you're talking about. There was plenty of post game complaining on here, but my team is not in 5A, so it didn't involve me.

[TrojanWebman]

The ref that was right on the call made, the call he saw, and he made an accurate call from his vantage point. The only camera angle that showed the ball had actually rolled out of the receivers hands was the one from the endzone....opposite the view of the ref.....as far as he could see, the ball was a legit catch....period.....game over.

If Westlake had wanted to win the game, shut up and win it before OT.....then this would not have been an issue.....you let them back in the game....anything can happen after that....and it did.

+1
Hats off to the players and coaches on both sides of the stadium. Everyone left it on the field!

That was one heck of a game. Trinity behind by 10....then ahead by 4....behind by 6 then behind by 14....ahead by 7.....tied game going to OT......held Westlake to a FG (this won the game)......Trinity moving the ball and ...... A TOUCHDOWN !!

Congratulations Trojans!!

[TrojanWebman]

The ref that was right on the call made, the call he saw, and he made an accurate call from his vantage point. The only camera angle that showed the ball had actually rolled out of the receivers hands was the one from the endzone....opposite the view of the ref.....as far as he could see, the ball was a legit catch....period.....game over.

If Westlake had wanted to win the game, shut up and win it before OT.....then this would not have been an issue.....you let them back in the game....anything can happen after that....and it did.

+1
Hats off to the players and coaches on both sides of the stadium. Everyone left it on the field!

That was one heck of a game. Trinity behind by 10....then ahead by 4....behind by 6 then behind by 14....ahead by 7.....tied game going to OT......held Westlake to a FG (this won the game)......Trinity moving the ball and ...... A TOUCHDOWN !!

Congratulations Trojans!!

[trojanbacker]

I think we all need to take a break from second-guessing officials and trying to imply that Trinity's championship is somehow not legit. To make everyone feel better during this Christmas season, here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZSbC09qgLI)is a link to a cute kitten playing. Next time you feel the urge rising to argue the call, just breath deeply and watch the cute kitten.

There....isn't that better?

[FeeltheHaka]

My goodness! I just watched the latest You tube on this. Frame by frame. At best/worst he had possession when he came down, and the ball was knocked loose by the defender after they already hit the ground.
It was a great effort by the defender. He has nothing to feel bad about. He couldn't have done anymore.
On the decision of that play: When that ball was thrown up, in my mind I was thinking; what are they doing? Lobbing the ball up like that? Then when you really think about it; it is genious. Man on Man single coverage with a proven big play stud! It makes perfect sense!

[TulsaHale74]

Trinity's championship is legit.

Second guessing is an American tradition.

I'd rather watch this kitty (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8Ynebb2fhg&feature=PlayList&p=D463F6CAC8FB8E0E&index=2).

:)

[Fleeman93]

IF IF IF IF IF IF IF you had review in Texas high school football that would not have been a catch. It was ruled a catch on the field and therefor it was a catch and touchdown. Trinity won the state championship and no one can or will take that away from them but, by definition, that was not a catch.

[trojanbacker]

Trinity's championship is legit.

Second guessing is an American tradition.

I'd rather watch this kitty (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8Ynebb2fhg&feature=PlayList&p=D463F6CAC8FB8E0E&index=2).

:)

Holy cow. Did that guy just try to hit a tiger with a stick?

[Lipander]

Yep...He argues with his wife...AND STILL GETS IT WRONG!!!

When you begin barraging people's personal life, the legitimacy of your argument is lessened, if not diminished entirely. I may be a newbie to this board, but I am not a newbie to common courtesy or to the rules of high school football. It was not a catch.

[bullrock]

Great game by two great teams. Too bad someone had to lose. I haven't read all of the posts in this thread so I may be speaking about something that has already been hashed out. The call at the end of the game was questionable at best, but only noticeable by instant replay. It is what it is. There were calls made both ways that affected the outcome of the game, but none of them as much as the botched call on the killed punt by Trinity in the late stages of the game. Maybe the rulles are different in high school, but the defender was clearly beyond the goal line at the conclusion of the play and in pro ball that is a touchback with the ball being placed at the twenty instead of the one where his knee went down. To me this was the most critical call of the game that I feel had a negative spin on the outcome. Again, the refs call what they see and I'm glad I don't have to be the one making these critical calls. I just think that there needs to be some sort of an appeal system, like the red flag in the pro ranks to give an opposing team a fighting chance on a call they think was wrong.
Congratulations to the Trojans for another championship and to cach Allman and the Chaps for a well fought game. You both made Texas football look good on TV.

[DragonFan0316]

No replay in HS. Ref makes the call and that is the way it is. He was right on it. Game over and the Trojans are the Champs!

[dragonsdaddy]

Great game by two great teams. Too bad someone had to lose. I haven't read all of the posts in this thread so I may be speaking about something that has already been hashed out. The call at the end of the game was questionable at best, but only noticeable by instant replay. It is what it is. There were calls made both ways that affected the outcome of the game, but none of them as much as the botched call on the killed punt by Trinity in the late stages of the game. Maybe the rulles are different in high school, but the defender was clearly beyond the goal line at the conclusion of the play and in pro ball that is a touchback with the ball being placed at the twenty instead of the one where his knee went down. To me this was the most critical call of the game that I feel had a negative spin on the outcome. Again, the refs call what they see and I'm glad I don't have to be the one making these critical calls. I just think that there needs to be some sort of an appeal system, like the red flag in the pro ranks to give an opposing team a fighting chance on a call they think was wrong.
Congratulations to the Trojans for another championship and to cach Allman and the Chaps for a well fought game. You both made Texas football look good on TV.
bull, it is great to hear from you. long time no type. come again soon.

[DougOrama]

Maybe the rulles are different in high school, but the defender was clearly beyond the goal line at the conclusion of the play and in pro ball that is a touchback with the ball being placed at the twenty instead of the one where his knee went down. To me this was the most critical call of the game that I feel had a negative spin on the outcome. .

The rule is different in college and high school. I didn't watch the whole game, and didn't see the punt play in question to know whether it was called correctly, but the college/high school rules are far less restrictive about the players downing the ball on a punt, as long as the ball has not yet touched down in the end zone, or has not touched a player in the end zone.

[odessapermian.com]

On the downed punt, the Trinity player controlled the ball and got a knee down in the field of play before falling into the endzone. Correct call by the refs.

[powerofthehaka]

On the downed punt, the Trinity player controlled the ball and got a knee down in the field of play before falling into the endzone. Correct call by the refs.

This.

[farmerfan]

Regarding Lineweaver's decision - you admire him for being "gutsy" and a "riverboat gambler" - but at the end of the day No. 11 for WL had his hands on the ball on his back and was literally a millisecond away from an INT before Carter took the ball back.
.

Still see you haven ot responded but after watching another replay of this catch number 11 was never clsoe to picking it like you suggest. He had his right hand which was his inside hand up and that was it, never had control of the ball or had it wrestled out from him. That ball was either going to be caught by Carter or incomplete. Was not taht close at all to being picked.

[twcpfan1]

Regarding Lineweaver's decision - you admire him for being "gutsy" and a "riverboat gambler" - but at the end of the day No. 11 for WL had his hands on the ball on his back and was literally a millisecond away from an INT before Carter took the ball back.

Other than a false start or fumble - both very unlikely for this ET squad down there - the only other thing to beat you is a "cute call" like a fade route that goes bad - and this one was extremely lucky to have not gone bad. Had 11 simply secured the ball the Chaps would be state champs.

The odds of WL keeping ET from running for a TD are literally almost non-existent - it simply was not going to happen.

Fav I will bet you all the money that I have that if that jump ball ended up in the WL's player's hands (a definite possibility as we saw) and they won the game, not a single one of these Euless fans would say it was the right call. It's always the easy way out to validate a decision after the fact.

[farmerfan]

Fav I will bet you all the money that I have that if that jump ball ended up in the WL's player's hands (a definite possibility as we saw) and they won the game, not a single one of these Euless fans would say it was the right call. It's always the easy way out to validate a decision after the fact.

Watch the play again, it was not even close to being picked. The Westlake defender had one hand up trying to defend the pass, never close to being picked.

I bet you if Lineweaver ran the ball instead of throwing it and they botched the snap or mishandled the handoff and Westlake recovered you would have been all over that too. You just can't see why plays are called when they are in football games and that is why you do something else other than coach.

[farmerfan]

Fav I will bet you all the money that I have that if that jump ball ended up in the WL's player's hands (a definite possibility as we saw) and they won the game, not a single one of these Euless fans would say it was the right call. It's always the easy way out to validate a decision after the fact.

Can you please point out again how that ball was almost picked,

here is a video clip yet again of the play, don't focus on the end result but on the actual play and the position of the defender. Also notice the safety at the bottom of yoru screen, notice how he is not playing pass first, he is heistant to retreat into pass coverage, thus leaving Carter one on one with a guy that he has an advantage on in every aspect you could ask for. But please show me how the ball was almost picked, when the ball arrived the Westlake defender still had his back turned with one arm free and the other would have had to swing around his body to get ot the ball, it was not close to being picked

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAXyV12sZ7E&feature=related

[twcpfan1]

Watch the play again, it was not even close to being picked. The Westlake defender had one hand up trying to defend the pass, never close to being picked.

I bet you if Lineweaver ran the ball instead of throwing it and they botched the snap or mishandled the handoff and Westlake recovered you would have been all over that too. You just can't see why plays are called when they are in football games and that is why you do something else other than coach.

Absolutely not !!! Not one person would second guess Lineweaver had the miscue happened on a running play based on how they dominated the WL defense on the ground in the 2nd half. Realistically. What are the chances of that happening compared to a WL player catching a jump ball pass. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the closeness of that ball being picked. He got close enough to wrestle it away from Carter that he was OOB when he eventually got control.

[farmerfan]

Absolutely not !!! Not one person would second guess Lineweaver had the miscue happened on a running play based on how they dominated the WL defense on the ground in the 2nd half. Realistically. What are the chances of that happening compared to a WL player catching a jump ball pass. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the closeness of that ball being picked. He got close enough to wrestle it away from Carter that he was OOB when he eventually got control.

No we dont have to agree to disagree on the call and why it was made. Once again watch the video, notice how hesitant the Westlake safeties were to get into pass coverage, you call plays based on what the defense gives you, at that point in the game, Trinity had a decided advantage with their WR. A receiver who all throughout the playoffs has made plays like that against the smaller defensive backs. The art of the fade is that it is hardly ever picked when thrown right, you throw the fade in a position to where the receiver is either going to catch or it is going to be imcomplete, Willie had only thrown 6 interceptions prior to that pass, the one he threw earlier was not on a fade route. The gall regardless if it worked or not was genius. You just want to sit here and nit pick regardless of the ouctome. Lineweaver has 4 rings for making decisions liek this one on a yearly basis. You or I don't.

The defender was never close to picking that ball or wrestling it away from Carter. Watch the video again and you will see.

Also you make it sound as if it was a given that Trinity would have just run the football in cleanly, you never saw the Arlington High game did you? I will once again ask the Trinity fans reading this, how many QB-Center and QB-RB exchanges were botched that evening?

[THSBandDad]

Can't decide whether to respond or not. :D

Oh well. Defender had his back to the receiver, got one hand in there, but wasn't going to pick it. Was it a reception? Not in my mind, but it was in the ref's, so it was good for six points.

Given the way the play unfolded and that the ref had to make a split second, on the run decision, I don't think there is any other way he could call it but a catch.

Now, can we PLEASE have 7 officials in the playoff games!!

[twcpfan1]

Can you please point out again how that ball was almost picked,

here is a video clip yet again of the play, don't focus on the end result but on the actual play and the position of the defender. Also notice the safety at the bottom of yoru screen, notice how he is not playing pass first, he is heistant to retreat into pass coverage, thus leaving Carter one on one with a guy that he has an advantage on in every aspect you could ask for. But please show me how the ball was almost picked, when the ball arrived the Westlake defender still had his back turned with one arm free and the other would have had to swing around his body to get ot the ball, it was not close to being picked

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAXyV12sZ7E&feature=related

I'll be happy to. Thanks for supplying the material. That's close to a 50-50 ball. I'll call BS on anybody that would take those odds based on that image, over Trinity running the ball.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/15942912@N04/4204798744/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/15942912@N04/4204798744/

[drgnbkr]

I'll be happy to. Thanks for supplying the material. That's close to a 50-50 ball. I'll call BS on anybody that would take those odds based on that image, over Trinity running the ball.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/15942912@N04/4204798744/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/15942912@N04/4204798744/

I really don't see how you can look at that replay and call it 50/50. The WL player had one hand on the Trinity players arm and a for a split second on the ball, but the Trinity player brought the ball down and had it in his hands and it never touched the ground with his back on the ground in the end zone. The Trinity receiver has a 40" vertical...It wasn't going to be intercepted where it was thrown.

[farmerfan]

I'll be happy to. Thanks for supplying the material. That's close to a 50-50 ball. I'll call BS on anybody that would take those odds based on that image, over Trinity running the ball.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/15942912@N04/4204798744/


http://www.flickr.com/photos/15942912@N04/4204798744/

That picture does you no justice. When the ball was hitting Carters hand not the defender, the defender had his momentum taking him away from the ball thus the reason why his outside hand was not free. I call BS on you and FAV that are so admant in thinking it was so close to being picked, never a chance that ball was picked based on the position of the Westlake defender and where his outside hand was as the ball was approaching Carter.
Ill take the odds of throwing that route to Carter with number 11 playing man coverage on him every time and twice on Sundays.

[farmerfan]

I really don't see how you can look at that replay and call it 50/50. The WL player had one hand on the Trinity players arm and a for a split second on the ball, but the Trinity player brought the ball down and had it in his hands and it never touched the ground with his back on the ground in the end zone. The Trinity receiver has a 40" vertical...It wasn't going to be intercepted where it was thrown.

First time we have agreed all year buddy :D;):notworthy

[drgnbkr]

First time we have agreed all year buddy :D;):notworthy

Well, I'm speechless!:D Merry Christmas!

[twcpfan1]

I really don't see how you can look at that replay and call it 50/50. The WL player had one hand on the Trinity players arm and a for a split second on the ball, but the Trinity player brought the ball down and had it in his hands and it never touched the ground with his back on the ground in the end zone. The Trinity receiver has a 40" vertical...It wasn't going to be intercepted where it was thrown.

Whichever way you slice it, it's nowhere near as sure as it would be if Euless kept running the ball. We'll just all have to agree to disagree. Congrats ET on a much deserved win

[farmerfan]

Whichever way you slice it, it's nowhere near as sure as it would be if Euless kept running the ball. We'll just all have to agree to disagree. Congrats ET on a much deserved win

Once again, the Arlington High game would strongly disagree with you on that one.

[farmerfan]

Well, I'm speechless!:D Merry Christmas!

and Merry Christmas to you as well

[twcpfan1]

Once again, the Arlington High game would strongly disagree with you on that one.

I'm guessing there wasn't a single botched snap in the RRSP game. There certainly wasn't one in this game. I'd still take my chances on this team running the ball.

[farmerfan]

I'm guessing there wasn't a single botched snap in the RRSP game. There certainly wasn't one in this game. I'd still take my chances on this team running the ball.

If memory serves me right I do think their was a botched snap or mishandled handoff on one or two plays against SP.

[feelthepayne]

I believe that most all of the arguments could be handled if we had instant replay available in HS football playoffs. It would definitely stop the refs from installing illegitimate state champs. Who knows who really should be there......take away most of the refs mistakes!!!!!!! Just something to ponder!(2 challenges per half.....automatic after two minutes, just like the pros) Hummmmmmmmmmm.:eek:

[dragonsdaddy]

I believe that most all of the arguments could be handled if we had instant replay available in HS football playoffs. It would definitely stop the refs from installing illegitimate state champs. Who knows who really should be there......take away most of the refs mistakes!!!!!!! Just something to ponder!(2 challenges per half.....automatic after two minutes, just like the pros) Hummmmmmmmmmm.:eek:

that would require resources not now available. if you need replay and the mess it has caused watch the nfl or the little nfl. let's keep thsfb as far away from them as we can.

[feelthepayne]

that would require resources not now available. if you need replay and the mess it has caused watch the nfl or the little nfl. let's keep thsfb as far away from them as we can.
I just hate seeing the wrong call being made. These teams work hard to get to the game!!!! And a ref makes the wrong call and voila you have the wrong winner!!!!!!!!!!!!

[feelthepayne]

I wonder how many close games were decided by the refs??????I just want a true winner. I think all the kids are winners, but it really is hard to accept a call when you know it is wrong!!!!!:(

[feelthepayne]

The DVR is at fault!!!! Because now we have proof!!! LMAO:):):D

[farmerfan]

I believe that most all of the arguments could be handled if we had instant replay available in HS football playoffs. It would definitely stop the refs from installing illegitimate state champs. Who knows who really should be there......take away most of the refs mistakes!!!!!!! Just something to ponder!(2 challenges per half.....automatic after two minutes, just like the pros) Hummmmmmmmmmm.:eek:

I hope you are not referring to this past game and somehowe suggesting that ET is an illegtimate champ

[FatBoy of Troy]

I just hate seeing the wrong call being made. These teams work hard to get to the game!!!! And a ref makes the wrong call and voila you have the wrong winner!!!!!!!!!!!!
Me too.

Let's say the officials make the right call when the the clock runs out before the ball is snapped and spiked at halftime and no freebie down is given for a field goal... -3 points.

Let's say the officials make the right call about obvious intentional grounding in the end zone. WHOOOPS!!! Safety +2 points.

Let's say the if the officials made the right calls... this game would have ended in regulation time.

Despite what you think the officials may or may not have missed Euless Trinity is the legitimate champion.:mad:

[da hawaiian]

Hey Fats

It sucks that CC's isn't going on tonite. What a celebration it would be if coach held it. The High-fives and stuff. I was gonna pull JBusch's hat off and take a good look at that nappy mess :D:eek:

[chhspantherfan]

OK, OK, OK...............please close your mouths, errrr, stop your keystrokes.


Mr FeelyourPayne, I know how you feel. I, once too, was oblivious to the facts. Slow down, understand. The last play was not the game, it was the inevitability. From the first time a WL defender grabbed a jersey (see no call on first Trinty bomb in 1st quarter) until the last time a WL mistake (see OT penalty) impacted the game, it was a symphony of ebbs and flows that is rarely seen. You are not a pimple on the *** of this game, there are plenty of those posting on here. You are a smart young man behind a screen name, show it. That is all. for now;)

[jbusch]

Hey Fats

It sucks that CC's isn't going on tonite. What a celebration it would be if coach held it. The High-fives and stuff. I was gonna pull JBusch's hat off and take a good look at that nappy mess :D:eek:

the glare may have blinded you:eek:

[Hank Hill]

I just wanted to add that I have nothing to add.......:D

Congrats to Trinity.......I'm still trying to get over the illegal catch John Mackey made in the Super Bowl against the Cowboys in 1970....I'll get to this in about 35 years...hopefully

[da hawaiian]

the glare may have blinded you:eek:

I just wanted to add that I have nothing to add.......:D

Congrats to Trinity.......I'm still trying to get over the illegal catch John Mackey made in the Super Bowl against the Cowboys in 1970....I'll get to this in about 35 years...hopefully

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/laughing/crying.gif

[FatBoy of Troy]

Hey Fats

It sucks that CC's isn't going on tonite. What a celebration it would be if coach held it. The High-fives and stuff. I was gonna pull JBusch's hat off and take a good look at that nappy mess :D:eek:
You got that right!!! I think I'll go into the corner and curl up into the fetal position and go through withdrawals.:eek::eek: and pray for spring ball to hurry and get here.:D

[TulsaHale74]

Can't decide whether to respond or not. :D

....

Now, can we PLEASE have 7 officials in the playoff games!!
After I inquired about why one of the playoff games at Jerryworld had 7, TXMike said every game not just playoffs can have 7 officials. The coaches have to make the request.

[TXMike]

Before this season we even wrote a manual for officiating with a 7 man crew. There were several early season games where coaches asked for it and Chapters provided it. While we really hope more schools opt for this in the playoffs, we would like to see it used in regular season so guys can get experienced working in such crews before they have to do it in a playoff game. Not excatly the same but think of it like this. 6 man teams are playing 6 man all year long and then players get pulled from various teams to play an 11 man all star game. They will probably do okay but not as good as they could if they had played some 11 man games during the season.

[theTrutHurts]

Okay, no one in their right mind who was watching the game on television and saw the various replays from different angles would say that was a catch...however, if the corner makes a play on a ball that was easier for him to make a play on or if westlake puts it in the end zone on their possession we don't have this discussion....
That being said, his feet were out of bounds by the time he had possession of the ball. A state championship should not end like that. He did make a great play, but he was out of bounds. I really liked the call by Lineweaver there. He is a great coach and deserves all the success he has had and will continue to have. Seems like a humble and very nice man.

[powerofthehaka]

Okay, no one in their right mind who was watching the game on television and saw the various replays from different angles would say that was a catch...however, if the corner makes a play on a ball that was easier for him to make a play on or if westlake puts it in the end zone on their possession we don't have this discussion....
That being said, his feet were out of bounds by the time he had possession of the ball. A state championship should not end like that. He did make a great play, but he was out of bounds. I really liked the call by Lineweaver there. He is a great coach and deserves all the success he has had and will continue to have. Seems like a humble and very nice man.

It was ruled a touchdown. Game over. Sometimes...........the truth hurts.

[stinger]

When you begin barraging people's personal life, the legitimacy of your argument is lessened, if not diminished entirely. I may be a newbie to this board, but I am not a newbie to common courtesy or to the rules of high school football. It was not a catch.

Say what, newbie??? It is apparent that you have no experience in what goes on with this, and many other forums. If you can't take the heat, then stay out of the kitchen. Practice treading water before you venture into the deep end, you may drown.

[ATXChap07]

You people are still whinning about this? Good lord:rolleyes:

[drgnbkr]

It was ruled a touchdown. Game over. Sometimes...........the truth hurts.

Trut....:)

[Boss Hawgette]

It was ruled a touchdown. Game over. Sometimes...........the truth hurts.

"maybe not as bad as jumping on a bicycle without a seat, but it hurts"

[dragonsdaddy]

I just wanted to add that I have nothing to add.......:D

Congrats to Trinity.......I'm still trying to get over the illegal catch John Mackey made in the Super Bowl against the Cowboys in 1970....I'll get to this in about 35 years...hopefully
thanks hank. i hadn't gotten over it, but i had at least quit crying into my mel renfro pillow. thanks a lot.

[Favpack]

thanks hank. i hadn't gotten over it, but i had at least quit crying into my mel renfro pillow. thanks a lot.

You may recall the ruling back then was two offensive players could not tip the ball - it must alternatively be touched by a defender.

True story - after Dad explained the ruling - I asked "why don't they just ask the Colt if he touched it or not, he would tell the truth".

Oh, the innocence of a 9 year old.

[dragonsdaddy]

You may recall the ruling back then was two offensive players could not tip the ball - it must alternatively be touched by a defender.

True story - after Dad explained the ruling - I asked "why don't they just ask the Colt if he touched it or not, he would tell the truth".

Oh, the innocence of a 9 year old.

oh, believe me, i recall that, and will to my grave. where was replay when we needed it?

[E-Vol-ution]

:notworthy Another truth...Trinity was blowing Westlake off the line of scrimmage late in the game. Another score would have happened within two handoffs up the middle.
It was ruled a touchdown. Game over. Sometimes...........the truth hurts.

[Favpack]

Good dvr work xtreme. :rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAXyV12sZ7E&feature=related

Watch the final 10 seconds a couple of times and tell me No. 11 had the ball for a few milliseconds.

The foot-out-of-bounds holds absolutely zero water.

[farmerfan]

Good dvr work xtreme. :rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAXyV12sZ7E&feature=related

Watch the final 10 seconds a couple of times and tell me No. 11 had the ball for a few milliseconds.

The foot-out-of-bounds holds absolutely zero water.

Nope, never did. Once again you and TWCP are looking for anything you can to discredit the play, call or whatever, number 11 was never close to picking that ball, now swatting it down or knocking it out for an incomplete, yes, but never close to a pick