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KT2000
12-03-2009, 01:03 PM
The first shotgun running team I remember seeing at the high school elvel was the 1998 Aledo state championship team. I hadn't seen multiple shotgun formations used to run the ball like that before, and, like Art Briles' multiple offense at Stephenville, it seemed like something from outer space at the time.

I saw the offense's true potential over the next few years, from 1999 to 2001, when Vince Young led Madison to its most successful season ever as a senior. Until Young came along, Madison always ran a speed option game from the split veer. With Young, they modified their traditional offense and added shotgun formations.

I didn't see the offense at a high level in 5A until Will Cole led Cedar Hill to the perfect season in 2006. Cole was supposed to play receiver that year, but the projected starter was injured in the spring. The Longhorn coaches had to improvise, and the answer was letting Cole take the snaps in the shotgun scheme. Good decision!

A few more years have passed since Cedar Hill's run in 2006. This year's Abilene and John Tyler teams are the best Wildcat type teams I have seen since Cedar Hill in 2006. John Tyler QB Jeremy Johnson is an outstanding athlete, and he's surrounded by several gifted players at the RB and WR spots.

Abilene's had success this season with QB Ronnell Sims, RB Herschel Sims and RB Tony Curtis running from the shotgun. Ronnell was a little banged up last week, so the Abilene coaches had Herschel take direct snaps to ease the load on Ronnell- who is a great runner in his own right. The result was nearly 300 rushing yards in a break out playoff performance from player who will surely be one of the nation's top recruits next year.

With the right blend of talent, this offense is an absolute nightmare because it is so difficult to account for every threat when the player taking snaps can run. With the right design and execution, passing can remain the secondary option.

This is an offense that literally can attack any part of the field on a given play. There is no unstoppable scheme, but the Wildcat is about as close as it gets in my opinion.

KT2000
12-03-2009, 01:06 PM
One to watch for the future is Klein Forest with Matt Davis over the next two years. Davis is the most gifted young quarterback I have seen since Vince Young.

I thought Davis was much more developed as a sophomore than Russell Shepard was at the same age. The game already seems slow for Davis. Scary, scary potential.

The King
12-04-2009, 08:30 AM
Its fun to watch but I think that in order to have long term success with it you must have a QB that can run and throw.

Too me it seems like a run version of the spread, if you could merge both it would be deadly, but it relys heavily on haveing the right athletes I think.

Time will tell

Just my .02

HUM398
12-04-2009, 02:33 PM
One to watch for the future is Klein Forest with Matt Davis over the next two years. Davis is the most gifted young quarterback I have seen since Vince Young.

I thought Davis was much more developed as a sophomore than Russell Shepard was at the same age. The game already seems slow for Davis. Scary, scary potential.

I agree.

Davis is a very solid QB...and an outstanding athlete...its going to be fun.


I kept wondering..."Why the hell hasn't Javelle Allen progressed like this kid"

Favpack
12-04-2009, 02:40 PM
In 2004, Lufkin was almost automatic scoring TD's in the red zone thanks to Jorvorskie Lane and a good line. The coaches got so tired of hearing "why not just direct snap it to J-train since the whole world knows he's getting it anyway" - they started doing just that in the PO's.

By the end of 5 games he had completed 3 or 4 passes, which is what led A&M to have him throw several successful hb passes, and he was never stopped from scoring.

That was the first direct snap to a rb I had recalled seeing on a regular basis. I still say that had Dez held on to that corner ball against SLC with 30 seconds left - Coach would have gone for 2 and the win, and Jorvorskie would have scored.

dragonsdaddy
12-04-2009, 03:02 PM
In 2004, Lufkin was almost automatic scoring TD's in the red zone thanks to Jorvorskie Lane and a good line. The coaches got so tired of hearing "why not just direct snap it to J-train since the whole world knows he's getting it anyway" - they started doing just that in the PO's.

By the end of 5 games he had completed 3 or 4 passes, which is what led A&M to have him throw several successful hb passes, and he was never stopped from scoring.

That was the first direct snap to a rb I had recalled seeing on a regular basis. I still say that had Dez held on to that corner ball against SLC with 30 seconds left - Coach would have gone for 2 and the win, and Jorvorskie would have scored.
to this day, chubbs says that slc doesn't win vs lp if they kept running with jlane. he had all he could stand of him pretty early. we seemed to have no answer and i never understood why the coaches stopped using it. thanks again, from me and mine.

da hawaiian
02-11-2010, 05:18 AM
Your line still has to block :D.

It's numbers.

by using a run threat at QB you increase your chances at creating an "overlap" (another rugby term :D)

When your QB is primarily a passer or a handoff guy, the defense doesn't have to account for him, thus they have a +1 advantage. The defense loses that advantage when your QB can hurt them with his feet. If your QB can both run and throw then you've really got something else.

KT2000
02-22-2010, 07:29 AM
Your line still has to block :D.

It's numbers.

by using a run threat at QB you increase your chances at creating an "overlap" (another rugby term :D)

When your QB is primarily a passer or a handoff guy, the defense doesn't have to account for him, thus they have a +1 advantage. The defense loses that advantage when your QB can hurt them with his feet. If your QB can both run and throw then you've really got something else.

I thought everyone would start putting their best athlete at QB after Will Cole and Cedar Hill in 2006. It didn't catch on like I thought it would. Of course, not everyone has the kind of athletes CH did that year, but it can still be used as a blueprint for many programs. There are a number of programs here in the Houston area that could become pretty frightening if they learned how to free their athletes like CH did in 06 or like Abilene last year.

dragonsdaddy
02-22-2010, 09:07 AM
I thought everyone would start putting their best athlete at QB after Will Cole and Cedar Hill in 2006. It didn't catch on like I thought it would. Of course, not everyone has the kind of athletes CH did that year, but it can still be used as a blueprint for many programs. There are a number of programs here in the Houston area that could become pretty frightening if they learned how to free their athletes like CH did in 06 or like Abilene last year.

it almost has to be a coaching weakness that has kept these houston teams in check. otherwise, there is no excuse. is money an issue with hiring good coaches down there?

KT2000
02-22-2010, 12:21 PM
it almost has to be a coaching weakness that has kept these houston teams in check. otherwise, there is no excuse. is money an issue with hiring good coaches down there?

Houston just makes for an interesting study overall. I wouldn't pin it on any one thing. There is probably truth to the money side of things in regard to coaching, but only focusing on coaching/money would be short sighted in my opinion. Money is a bigger issue in Texas due to community involvement, no getting around that. But I don't think lack of resources means you can't build a program, just as I don't believe abundance of said resources translates to automatic success.

Throughout the 90s, the powerhouse programs in the Houston area usually ran some version of the more traditional, under center based option varieties. Katy was the first one to really shake that up in 1997 by beating Pat Patterson/Richard Carson's Eisenhower juggernaut.

During that time, and throughout the past 10 years or so now, the demographic shift continued away from the city. Places like Aldine and Alief, once characterized as popular suburban destinations, were all of a sudden urban by comparison to exploding areas like Katy, Cypress and northern Fort Bend county among others.

Over time, some of the traditional hotbeds have deteriorated as places to live, and they've also failed to innovate/re-invent themselves with the way the game has changed over the last 10-15 years. Some have tried to "get the with the times" and run a vanilla version of the spread, but those experiments have not yielded much in the way of results. I think there's been an identity crisis of sorts for programs attempting the transition from the option dominated scene of the 90s to today's game.

The King
02-25-2010, 12:49 PM
Houston just makes for an interesting study overall. I wouldn't pin it on any one thing. There is probably truth to the money side of things in regard to coaching, but only focusing on coaching/money would be short sighted in my opinion. Money is a bigger issue in Texas due to community involvement, no getting around that. But I don't think lack of resources means you can't build a program, just as I don't believe abundance of said resources translates to automatic success.

Throughout the 90s, the powerhouse programs in the Houston area usually ran some version of the more traditional, under center based option varieties. Katy was the first one to really shake that up in 1997 by beating Pat Patterson/Richard Carson's Eisenhower juggernaut.

During that time, and throughout the past 10 years or so now, the demographic shift continued away from the city. Places like Aldine and Alief, once characterized as popular suburban destinations, were all of a sudden urban by comparison to exploding areas like Katy, Cypress and northern Fort Bend county among others.

Over time, some of the traditional hotbeds have deteriorated as places to live, and they've also failed to innovate/re-invent themselves with the way the game has changed over the last 10-15 years. Some have tried to "get the with the times" and run a vanilla version of the spread, but those experiments have not yielded much in the way of results. I think there's been an identity crisis of sorts for programs attempting the transition from the option dominated scene of the 90s to today's game.

I don't think their is a Think about it. I remember a few years back when Katy played Aleif Taylor, and the week they played Katy they made the QB a WR, and the WR the QB, and had the best offensive performance they had all season and almost beat Katy. I saw them a week or so later and they fliped the 2 players back, and their performance was nowhere nea where it was against Katy. For the life of me I could not figure out why they didn't make the change perminant. They had some good athletes that year too.

The Problem with the "get with the times spread" is that schools (coaches) that run that system is that they do not move the ball around to different players enough.

The Reality the Spread/Wildcat and the Wing-T/Option that some of us saw Bellevue run this season is that they are alike in that they depend on getting the ball to as many people as possible, and that haveing the right athletes can make or brea it. So when go watch a team go out and line up 4 or 5 wide, and the same guy runs off-tackle on nearly everydown that defeats the purpose of the offense (as well as makes it easy to defend against).

I have seen a lot of schools run the "get with the times spread" and it just doesn't work. When a team runs an offense they need to be sold on that offense.

I know their is that long team of TOD debate thread on the main page, but SLC and Katy are two programs that have both been sold on their offenses over the years and their results speak well of it. I will be interested to see what Abilene looks like in 2 or 3 years.

KT2000
04-26-2010, 09:42 AM
I think Abilene's current offense, and Cedar Hill's in 2006, is probably the toughest kind of offense to defend. It is tough to contain a shotgun based offense with a dynamic running threat at quarterback because they can literally do anything on a given play (go any direction, attack any lane).

As you noted king, the best offenses are the ones that get multiple players involved. Shotgun offenses are hard enough to defend with two main threats (QB/RB), but they become a real headache when you bring a second RB into the equation along with a receiver or two.

The Wildcat type offense suits some of Houston's more talented teams perfectly in my opinion. It was painful to watch Humble run a vanilla spread with Jerrod Johnson (now at A&M) a few years back. I can't imagine what they could have done if they'd used Johnson more like Abilene used Ronnell Sims or Cedar Hill with Will Cole. Watching Johnson in a standard spread was like watching someone drive a Ferrari through a neighborhood at 30 mph.

The King
04-30-2010, 04:23 PM
I think Abilene's current offense, and Cedar Hill's in 2006, is probably the toughest kind of offense to defend. It is tough to contain a shotgun based offense with a dynamic running threat at quarterback because they can literally do anything on a given play (go any direction, attack any lane).

As you noted king, the best offenses are the ones that get multiple players involved. Shotgun offenses are hard enough to defend with two main threats (QB/RB), but they become a real headache when you bring a second RB into the equation along with a receiver or two.

The Wildcat type offense suits some of Houston's more talented teams perfectly in my opinion. It was painful to watch Humble run a vanilla spread with Jerrod Johnson (now at A&M) a few years back. I can't imagine what they could have done if they'd used Johnson more like Abilene used Ronnell Sims or Cedar Hill with Will Cole. [B]Watching Johnson in a standard spread was like watching someone drive a Ferrari through a neighborhood at 30 mph.

I couldn't agree more with Johnson and the Ferrari going through a neighborhood

The thing I would worry about if I were an Abilene fan (I'm not famileir with their talent base) is even if the talent base is good its not very often you get players like Sims. I think If I were the coach I would be begging his mom to become like that woman in Arkansas with 20 kids.

Having 1 of him come through every year or so could be great for a Football program.

You are right though their are some houston area schools that could be downright scary if the coaching caught up to the talent at those schools.