Cast (and defend) your Heisman ballot here

[78 Spartan]

NOT who you think WILL win, but who you think SHOULD win.

If I had a vote, it would be

1. Toby Gerhart
2. Ndamukong Suh
3. Case Keenum
4. Colt McCoy
5. Golden Tate

Here's my thought process. If the Heisman were a career achievement honor, it would go to Tim Tebow. But it's not, and while Tebow is everybody's model citizen (including mine) and the poster boy for college football, he really didn't have all that spectacular of a season. I've seen it argued, credibly, that he shouldn't even be first team all SEC.

If it were about being the most impactful player on an undefeated team, we might consider Mark Ingram. But, wait, he's not the big impact player on that team, Julio Jones is. Ingram ground out a lot of yards this year, but a lot less than did Toby Gerhart (more on him later). And he was basically shut down against Auburn when it counted, damn near costing Bama their shot at the title.

If the award were about who made Notre Dame tolerable to watch, it wasn't Jimmy Clausen, it was Golden Tate. That guy was a human highlight reel this season, perhaps even above CJ Spiller.

If the award were about passing stats, it wouldn't go to Colt McCoy, it would go to Case Keenum. McCoy racked up some gaudy stats against lame Big XII defenses. My guess is he will not put up anything close to that against Alabama or Florida.

Also, if the award were about passing stats, the football office at Texas Tech would be swimming in them. It's not, so sorry, Case Keenum.

No, the award is about the most dominant player in this college football season, and IMHO there are only two candidates for that: Toby Gerhart and Ndamukong Suh. Those guys single-handedly carried their teams to seasons that they couldn't have dreamed of without them. I think either Gerhart or Suh are worthy, the reason I would vote for Toby Gerhart is that he did it at Stanford, while taking 21 hours of college credit so he can graduate in December. Carrying Stanford to Rose Bowl contention is, to me, stronger than carrying Nebraska to the Big XII north title.

Go ahead, throw your rocks.

[BDB]

semi-homer pick with colt, for me. it came down to tebow and colt (ingram dropped his case in that first half against auburn, but not sure what he ended up with in that game.). imo, the most valuable player leads a team to wins. gerhart/claussen/keenum/suh didn't do that. after that, between tebow and mccoy, i personally think they're almost identical when it comes down to how much their teams need them, so i homer-picked colt. wouldn't be suprised to see tebow take it, though.

my final was:

1.colt
2.tebow
3.gerhart
4.keenum
5.ingram

[tayb]

1. Toby Gerhart
2. Colt McCoy
3. Ndamukong Suh
4. Kellen Moore
5. Jacquizz Rodgers

This is a pretty crappy year overall in my opinion. Gerhart has been the best player in my opinion and he has been on a good enough team and had enough solid wins that his losses shouldn't knock him down in favor of McCoy. I'd love to pick McCoy because he plays for Texas but the way he started the year was pretty subpar. If the Heisman counted for his games AFTER mid October it would be a landslide for McCoy but that's not how it works and McCoy's poor start to the season knocks him from the top.

[yallerjacket2]

semi-homer pick with colt, for me. it came down to tebow and colt (ingram dropped his case in that first half against auburn, but not sure what he ended up with in that game.). imo, the most valuable player leads a team to wins. gerhart/claussen/keenum/suh didn't do that. after that, between tebow and mccoy, i personally think they're almost identical when it comes down to how much their teams need them, so i homer-picked colt. wouldn't be suprised to see tebow take it, though.

my final was:

1.colt
2.tebow
3.gerhart
4.keenum
5.ingram

It's supposed to be a Heisman ballot, not an MVP ballot.

I would still go with Colt though.

[BDB]

It's supposed to be a Heisman ballot, not an MVP ballot.

I would still go with Colt though.

.... they honestly sound the same, to me. everybody has a different criteria for picking, mine has to do with being the MVP.

[svhorns]

Colt McCoy. Why? Because he's a bad a$$. Shooter McGavin has nothing on Colt 45.

[BDB]

Colt McCoy. Why? Because he's a bad a$$. Shooter McGavin has nothing on Colt 45.

http://walterfootball.com/images/fball/look1306.jpg

shooter 4 heisman.

[TEXREB]

1. Toby Gerhardt
2. Colt McCoy
3. Tim Tebow

For all the reasons that 78 Spartan mentioned. Where would Stanford be without Gerhardt? Would they even be bowl eligible? When was the last time Stanford was in serious Rose Bowl contention? Not to mention great stats as well.

I would love to see Gerhardt come back for another year(according to the game announcers, he could petition for another year) with Luck and see what they could do.

[svhorns]

Colt with a win over Nebraska next week will have a total of 45 wins in his career.

[CCCSportsFan]

Colt
Gerhart
Ingram

[CCDawgs]

Toby Gerhart
Colt McCoy
Tim Tebow
Mark Ingram
Case Keenum

[TheBigPeach]

Toby Gerhart
Colt McCoy
Tim Tebow
Mark Ingram
Case Keenum

This except switch McCoy and Tebow. I think Gerhart has been the most impressive all season long. He is gonna be a heck of a pro.

[CCDawgs]

This except switch McCoy and Tebow. I think Gerhart has been the most impressive all season long. He is gonna be a heck of a pro.

Ah, it doesnt matter. They dont hand out a runner up trophy. :D;)

[BlakeJ]

Toby Gerhart

He has defined what the Heisman trust has placed on what it requires to be the Heisman winner when the award was created

The most outstanding and dominating player in college football. Toby Gerhart is that. My list would be as follows.....

1) Toby Gerhart
2) Case Keenum
3) Golden Tate
4) Suh (wont attempt his first name)
5) Colt McCoy

Team wins should have NOTHING to do with who wins. The Heisman is a individual award and you can only play to the best of your abilitites...you cannot make your defense better or win games on your own.

[yankee]

toby gerhart.
only 2 games with under 100 yards rushing.
trucked taylor mays.
can throw a TD pass like he's andrew luck.
he's white.
'nuff said.

[33Blood]

Colt leads all QBs in wins and had a big game at the right time this week. Unless he falters in the Big12 Championship he has the numbers to win it this year and has the career to get some votes that way too. Tebow already has one and really hasn't had that great of years statistically other than 1. He gets wins and TDs but Colt's numbers have been better otherwise. Gerhart has been big in big games but his team has lost 4 times to teams that aren't ranked. Ingram withdrew his name against Auburn.

[Favpack]

Something tells me Colt will have a so-so B12 title game and the award will go to Gerhart - which is absurd considering the P10 has no title game.

I hope Colt wins it -he deserves it, but I'm not holding my breath.

Colt
Gerhart
Tebow

[BlakeJ]

Something tells me Colt will have a so-so B12 title game and the award will go to Gerhart - which is absurd considering the P10 has no title game.

I hope Colt wins it -he deserves it, but I'm not holding my breath.

Colt
Gerhart
Tebow

Why does Colt deserve it?? What has he done that tells you he is the most outstanding and dominating single player in college football? Curious. I just dont get it.

[okt0ber]

Why does Colt deserve it?? What has he done that tells you he is the most outstanding and dominating single player in college football? Curious. I just dont get it.


And I don't get Gerhart, either. Who have they played, really?

[tayb]

This except completely remove Tebow from the list. I think Gerhart has been the most impressive all season long. He is gonna be a heck of a pro.

fify.

Tebow has no business even being invited to New York.

[BDB]

Why does Colt deserve it?? What has he done that tells you he is the most outstanding and dominating single player in college football? Curious. I just dont get it.

why isn't donald buckram in the talks for heisman, if gerhart is so dominating?

oh yea, cuz his team sucks, and they lost.

[tayb]

Toby Gerhart

He has defined what the Heisman trust has placed on what it requires to be the Heisman winner when the award was created

The most outstanding and dominating player in college football. Toby Gerhart is that. My list would be as follows.....

1) Toby Gerhart
2) Case Keenum
3) Golden Tate
4) Suh (wont attempt his first name)
5) Colt McCoy

Team wins should have NOTHING to do with who wins. The Heisman is a individual award and you can only play to the best of your abilitites...you cannot make your defense better or win games on your own.

Danario Alexander, Greg Salas, and Freddy Barnes all have more receiving yards and receptions than Golden Tate. Freddy Barnes has more receiving yards, more receptions, and more touchdowns than Golden Tate? If teams have NOTHING to do with who should win the Heisman why is Golden Tate on your list but those three guys aren't?

Von Miller has 10 more sacks than Suh.

Hm...

[CCDawgs]

And I don't get Gerhart, either. Who have they played, really?
The almighty Notre Dame. Duh! :rolleyes:



But to add to the discussion, I think Colts numbers are a little inflated due to the fact that all of his big games came against crap opponents.(excluding A&M:rolleyes:)

Colts Biggest Games
Lousiana-Monroe - 317 yard, 2 TDs
Wyoming - 337 yards, 3 TDs
UTEP - 286, 3 TDs
Kansas - 396, 4 TDs
Texas A&M - 304 passing, 175 rushing, 5TDs

However, his numbers seem to go down in bigger games.

Colts Worse Games
Texas Tech - 204 passing, 1 TD, 2 INTs
Oklahoma - 127 yards, 1 TD, 1INT
Oklahoma State - 171 yards, 1 TD

Now Toby Gerharts numbers vary. He seems to play at an elite level vs. top competition. When Stanford wins, he averages 162 on the ground and 2 TDs.This includes 223 vs Oregon, 178 vs. USC, and 205 vs. Notre Dame which are all good teams. (ok maybe not ND. :rolleyes:) However, in there losses, he has carried the ball less and averages 110 on the ground with 1.5 TDs a game. Even though Stanford has lost 4 times, he still played on amore consistent basis than McCoy.

Well this being said, I believe Toby deserves itmore than Colt. But it will not work out like that. Its Colts turn to win it. Colt does have his team 12-0 and that will go into effect. It blows that the Heisman isnt an MVP or a Most Outstanding Player Award(The Maxwell Trophy). If it was an MVP, then Tebow would probably have won it last year and would be a clear favorite this year. If it was a MOP award, it would go to Gerhart or even Case Keenum before McCoy.

[GoOwls]

Why does Colt deserve it?? What has he done that tells you he is the most outstanding and dominating single player in college football? Curious. I just dont get it.

No real revelation there....we've known for some time you don't get it.

Here is the case for Colt.

If he wasn't their QB, they would not be in a position to win the NC....period...he makes his team way better than they would be without him.

There are only two guys on the list that can make that claim...Colt and Tebow.....Stanford moves the ball without Gerhart.....the other RB does fine when he is being rotated in....nobody rotates in with Colt or Tebow....they play every offensive down....they are the key to a NC.

So if you want to push for a rotation player like Gerhard on a 3 loss team for the Heisman....go ahead....that would be like Marion Barber for MVP.....:rolleyes:

[GoOwls]

The almighty Notre Dame. Duh! :rolleyes:



But to add to the discussion, I think Colts numbers are a little inflated due to the fact that all of his big games came against crap opponents.(excluding A&M:rolleyes:)

Colts Biggest Games
Lousiana-Monroe - 317 yard, 2 TDs
Wyoming - 337 yards, 3 TDs
UTEP - 286, 3 TDs
Kansas - 396, 4 TDs
Texas A&M - 304 passing, 175 rushing, 5TDs

However, his numbers seem to go down in bigger games.

Colts Worse Games
Texas Tech - 204 passing, 1 TD, 2 INTs
Oklahoma - 127 yards, 1 TD, 1INT
Oklahoma State - 171 yards, 1 TD

Now Toby Gerharts numbers vary. He seems to play at an elite level vs. top competition. When Stanford wins, he averages 162 on the ground and 2 TDs.This includes 223 vs Oregon, 178 vs. USC, and 205 vs. Notre Dame which are all good teams. (ok maybe not ND. :rolleyes:) However, in there losses, he has carried the ball less and averages 110 on the ground with 1.5 TDs a game. Even though Stanford has lost 4 times, he still played on amore consistent basis than McCoy.

Well this being said, I believe Toby deserves itmore than Colt. But it will not work out like that. Its Colts turn to win it. Colt does have his team 12-0 and that will go into effect. It blows that the Heisman isnt an MVP or a Most Outstanding Player Award(The Maxwell Trophy). If it was an MVP, then Tebow would probably have won it last year and would be a clear favorite this year. If it was a MOP award, it would go to Gerhart or even Case Keenum before McCoy.

I like it.....vote for a rotation player vs. a 100% of the downs player....gotcha....;)

[Firebird]

I voted other. If I got to give the Heisman away, I would give it to Tennessee's Eric Berry, because he is the best football player in the nation right now. He's just a football playin' dude.

[CCDawgs]

I like it.....vote for a rotation player vs. a 100% of the downs player....gotcha....;)

That man deserves his rest. :D

[Firebird]

I like it.....vote for a rotation player vs. a 100% of the downs player....gotcha....;)

This is a pretty dopey argument. Basically, it turns the Heisman into the "Best quarterback" award, not that it hasn't basically become that already. The QB is in on almost 100% of the downs, but on a team that runs the ball well, he's hardly the key cog in the machine. Plus, you are never going to be able to have an RB that stays in on every offensive play. Even when he's not carrying the ball, he is throwing a block and absorbing contact. Meanwhile, the QB sees physical contact on a fraction of offensive plays if the offense is doing it right. Of course you are going to have to spell your RBs, they will break down faster.

There are plenty of times where the best player, or even the MVP, of a football season is not a QB.

[tayb]

I like it.....vote for a rotation player vs. a 100% of the downs player....gotcha....;)

We already have an award for the nations best quarterback. The Heisman is not it. You don't have to be on the field 100% of the snaps to be eligible for the Heisman. That's ridiculous.

[Firebird]

Since Eric Berry isn't going to even be invited, I will say that I think that with the way McCoy came on to close the season he should win of the invitees. He absolutely had a better year than Tebow. I was a big booster for Ingram, but it wasn't so much the Auburn game that changed my mind as the way Trent Richardson performed in it. I think that whoever is running at Alabama is going to rack up yards. Toby Gerhart has a strong, strong case, but I think the overall performance of Colt and how he carries his team edges him out. It would not be a travesty to see either one win it.

C.J. Spiller is an incredible athlete, but they just didn't involve him enough at Clemson to get the numbers I want to see. He's like Reggie Bush part deux. I didn't think Bush deserved it, either. The guy is always there for a big play, but I do want to see the Heisman winner be more of a workman than a burst of flash.

[CCDawgs]

Since Eric Berry isn't going to even be invited, I will say that I think that with the way McCoy came on to close the season he should win of the invitees. He absolutely had a better year than Tebow. I was a big booster for Ingram, but it wasn't so much the Auburn game that changed my mind as the way Trent Richardson performed in it. I think that whoever is running at Alabama is going to rack up yards. Toby Gerhart has a strong, strong case, but I think the overall performance of Colt and how he carries his team edges him out. It would not be a travesty to see either one win it.

C.J. Spiller is an incredible athlete, but they just didn't involve him enough at Clemson to get the numbers I want to see. He's like Reggie Bush part deux. I didn't think Bush deserved it, either. The guy is always there for a big play, but I do want to see the Heisman winner be more of a workman than a burst of flash.

Do you think McCoy can lose it if he has a poor performance vs. Nebraska?

[Firebird]

Do you think McCoy can lose it if he has a poor performance vs. Nebraska?

I think it would take a loss plus a very poor performance. A tepid performance and a win will just make him look "gutsy."

That guy really impressed me at Kyle. He put the team on his back and carried them to a win.

[GoOwls]

This is a pretty dopey argument. Basically, it turns the Heisman into the "Best quarterback" award, not that it hasn't basically become that already. The QB is in on almost 100% of the downs, but on a team that runs the ball well, he's hardly the key cog in the machine. Plus, you are never going to be able to have an RB that stays in on every offensive play. Even when he's not carrying the ball, he is throwing a block and absorbing contact. Meanwhile, the QB sees physical contact on a fraction of offensive plays if the offense is doing it right. Of course you are going to have to spell your RBs, they will break down faster.

There are plenty of times where the best player, or even the MVP, of a football season is not a QB.

No...not really....history lesson ensues.

Archie Griffin...Earl Campbell...etc.....I don't remember them missing downs....at least not more than one or two after a long run....it wasn't a day of specialization....Stud RB's ran the freakin ball the whole damn game....period.

This is why it is ever harder and harder for me to embrace today's RB's for the Heisman...specialization has rendered their position to a more subordinate position and elevated the QB....especially since back in the day, most offenses were run oriented...today's offenses are QB/pass oriented....the run tends to be a by-product of the passing game...the fullback is almost history.

I noticed where it was mentioned in an earlier thread that Mack hasn't recruited top RB's....so what.....he's recruiting the top QB's and winning NC's and 10+ games a year.....the QB is the most important position, by far, in football in general now...since the spread of the West Coast offense and it's children.

[CCDawgs]

No...not really....history lesson ensues.

Archie Griffin...Earl Campbell...etc.....I don't remember them missing downs....at least not more than one or two after a long run....it wasn't a day of specialization....Stud RB's ran the freakin ball the whole damn game....period.

This is why it is ever harder and harder for me to embrace today's RB's for the Heisman...specialization has rendered their position to a more subordinate position and elevated the QB....especially since back in the day, most offenses were run oriented...today's offenses are QB/pass oriented....the run tends to be a by-product of the passing game...the fullback is almost history.

I noticed where it was mentioned in an earlier thread that Mack hasn't recruited top RB's....so what.....he's recruiting the top QB's and winning NC's and 10+ games a year.....the QB is the most important position, by far, in football in general now...since the spread of the West Coast offense and it's children.

So what Gerhart has done in this "QB era" is unimpressive to you?

[GoOwls]

So what Gerhart has done in this "QB era" is unimpressive to you?

I see his replacement and QB move the ball just as well as when he is in....he is a plug in....a very good plug in....a top pro prospect plug in....but for his team, he is a part.....not much else....an excellent system back.

[CCDawgs]

I see his replacement and QB move the ball just as well as when he is in....he is a plug in....a very good plug in....a top pro prospect plug in....but for his team, he is a part.....not much else....an excellent system back.

Colt is an excellent system QB. ;):D

[GoOwls]

Colt is an excellent system QB. ;):D

.....who...plays ....every...down.....

see where this is going here?

Texas = 3 losses, at least w/o Colt.....NC contender with.

Stanford = 3 or 4 losses w/o Gerhart......3 losess with.

Colt much > Gerhart to his team.

[BlakeJ]

.....who...plays ....every...down.....

see where this is going here?

Texas = 3 losses, at least w/o Colt.....NC contender with.

Stanford = 3 or 4 losses w/o Gerhart......3 losess with.

Colt much > Gerhart to his team.

Who is your team?? Go ahead...say UT...then follow with an "Im a homer" and my opinion is kewed like the rest." Then walk out of the door directly afterwards.

[tayb]

Who is your team?? Go ahead...say UT...then follow with an "Im a homer" and my opinion is kewed like the rest." Then walk out of the door directly afterwards.

And your team is?

I'm pretty sure you put Golden Tate on your list despite 3 receivers with much better receivers just because he plays for Notre Dame. So just stfu with your calling out people for being "homers."

[okt0ber]

Who is your team?? Go ahead...say UT...then follow with an "Im a homer" and my opinion is kewed like the rest." Then walk out of the door directly afterwards.


That's about the pot calling the kettle black because everything you put on here has some connection to Notre Dame. Gerhart hadn't even come off your typing finger (that I've noticed)s until ND played them last night.... I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, though...

[GoOwls]

And your team is?

I'm pretty sure you put Golden Tate on your list despite 3 receivers with much better receivers just because he plays for Notre Dame. So just stfu with your calling out people for being "homers."

He can't help it....hypocrite is as hypocrite does.

[okt0ber]

He can't help it....hypocrite is as hypocrite does.


Is it a he??

[GoOwls]

Is it a he??

OK.....he/she.....

[okt0ber]

OK.....he/she.....


I thought it was a she LOL

[GoOwls]

I thought it was a she LOL

it is as it does.....:ninja: :D

[mad_fan]

Alright...who cast the ONE VOTE for Tebow???

I'm sure this is what the actual voting will look like...
:rolleyes:

[BlakeJ]

That's about the pot calling the kettle black because everything you put on here has some connection to Notre Dame. Gerhart hadn't even come off your typing finger (that I've noticed)s until ND played them last night.... I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, though...

Ive been talking about Gerhart ALL YEAR LONG!!! I have the ability to think outside the burnt orange box. Something alot of you lack.

[BlakeJ]

Is it a he??

Dang...you guys are on top of it as usual. I love it when I come here...beat you down in debate sooooo bad you cant take it anymore. Soon come the sexual preference, yo momma, he's a she...etc. jokes.

A beat down man is a beat down man.

[BlakeJ]

I find it funny that a kid with LITTLE if any character has this to say.

"CHARACTER is not found in a bottle, a pipe, a doob, a line, a hit, a needle, or any other means of obsession that alters the mind and creates illusions of grandeur, no matter how hard you look for it there... If you have to prop it up with a substance....it ain't CHARACTER."

LMAO!!!!!!!!!

[tayb]

Ive been talking about Gerhart ALL YEAR LONG!!! I have the ability to think outside the burnt orange box. Something alot of you lack.

This is you. A whopping 48 hours ago.

Really?? Sam Bradford was the best college player last year?? I was under the assumption along with most everyone else that Michael Crabtree was actually college's best player last year...he just didn;t play for the right team...which these days usually is the case.

Ive said it before...the Heisman is a joke these days...they need to change the name to the "Best Player On the Best Team" trophy.

Mark Ingram should win the award this year slightly over Toby Gerhart. Yet we all know that it's likely Tim Tebow or Colt McCoy.

This is you, today. Ingram isn't on your list but your homer pick Golden Tate is.

Toby Gerhart

He has defined what the Heisman trust has placed on what it requires to be the Heisman winner when the award was created

The most outstanding and dominating player in college football. Toby Gerhart is that. My list would be as follows.....

1) Toby Gerhart
2) Case Keenum
3) Golden Tate
4) Suh (wont attempt his first name)
5) Colt McCoy

Team wins should have NOTHING to do with who wins. The Heisman is a individual award and you can only play to the best of your abilitites...you cannot make your defense better or win games on your own.


Once again, STFU.

[mad_fan]

This is just like the MVP talk in the NFL...
Brett Favre is topping a lot of lists...all time interception king has THREE INTs this year with the Vikings...
I'd argue the Vikings just have a better system...for a 40 year old man to play in...because it's not his teammates that are making the difference...
:rolleyes:

[mad_fan]

Once again, STFU.

That's not getting old...:rolleyes:
Can't you just NOT READ posters you don't want to hear from???

[mad_fan]

Re: Cast (and defend) your Heisman ballot here

I voted for Jimmy...
No Defense...
:D

[BlakeJ]

This is you. A whopping 48 hours ago.



This is you, today. Ingram isn't on your list but your homer pick Golden Tate is.




Once again, STFU.

Dude if you cant handle my opinion, feel free to sign off. I had already told you that I thought for some reason Ingram had better stats. I instantly corrected myself. Same goes for you...cant keep it clean because.....

A beat down man is beat down.

[BlakeJ]

That's not getting old...:rolleyes:
Can't you just NOT READ posters you don't want to hear from???

They cant...they are 18 and mindless. They've been beaten to a pulp in the Heisman debate and they simply have nothing else to offer.

[mad_fan]

They cant...they are 18 and mindless. They've been beaten to a pulp in the Heisman debate and they simply have nothing else to offer.

Old people can be better mannered too...:rolleyes:
But I don't actually read most of this stuff anymore so it really doesn't matter how rude you all are to each other...

[BDB]

They cant...they are 18 and mindless. They've been beaten to a pulp in the Heisman debate and they simply have nothing else to offer.

LMAO!!!! :notworthy you're funny.

but yea, why does gerhart get the nod for the heisman, but buckram at utep doesn't crack your top 5? he's only 200 yards short.

with 11 games a season, that's roughly 20 more yards a game.....

could it be because you're riding espn's jock, even though you complain about people doing that, as well as only trying to throw colt under the bus?

that seems to be your MO, here.

[BlakeJ]

Old people can be better mannered too...:rolleyes:
But I don't actually read most of this stuff anymore so it really doesn't matter how rude you all are to each other...

The point is clearly stated in this thread. Someone picked Colt. I asked a simple question very nicely on why he picked Colt and asked him to explain what he thinks Colt has done to deserve the award. The funniest part is the little boys that are getting nasty and taking shots at what gender I am arent even the guy I was talking to.

The fact is that the little boys are still hungover from the beat down they recieved in the other threads and feel the only material or worth while crap they have to offer are cute pictures and he/she jokes. The funny thing is that they actually think they win doing so...lmao. Once again....

A beat down boy is beat down

[BDB]

The fact is that the little boys are still hungover from the beat down they recieved in the other threads and feel the only material or worth while crap they have to offer are cute pictures and he/she jokes. The funny thing is that they actually think they win doing so...lmao. Once again....


you're the old version of whs08..... this is awesome.

anyway, why doesn't buckram make your top 5 if he only has 200 yards less than garhart?

[BlakeJ]

LMAO!!!! :notworthy you're funny.

but yea, why does gerhart get the nod for the heisman, but buckram at utep doesn't crack your top 5? he's only 200 yards short.

with 11 games a season, that's roughly 20 more yards a game.....

could it be because you're riding espn's jock, even though you complain about people doing that, as well as only trying to throw colt under the bus?

that seems to be your MO, here.

Look at the the numbers. Colts INDIVIDUAL NUMBERS are not great for a QB. 25 rushing TDs and 1600 + yards in the Pac 10 is a bit more impressive...to top that...0 turnovers when Colt has a ton.

[BlakeJ]

you're the old version of whs08..... this is awesome.

anyway, why doesn't buckram make your top 5 if he only has 200 yards less than garhart?

And you're the new version of el prez. Funny thing is I didnt know that was you until this weekend.

UTEP! UTEP!

The guys doesnt play nobody.

[mad_fan]

The point is clearly stated in this thread. Someone picked Colt. I asked a simple question very nicely on why he picked Colt and asked him to explain what he thinks Colt has done to deserve the award. The funniest part is the little boys that are getting nasty and taking shots at what gender I am arent even the guy I was talking to.

The fact is that the little boys are still hungover from the beat down they recieved in the other threads and feel the only material or worth while crap they have to offer are cute pictures and he/she jokes. The funny thing is that they actually think they win doing so...lmao. Once again....

A beat down boy is beat down

Okay...
I guess it's a style choice...when I 'beat down' the kids...they know they've been beaten down...I don't have to keep telling them...

[BDB]

And you're the new version of el prez. Funny thing is I didnt know that was you until this weekend.

UTEP! UTEP!

The guys doesnt play nobody.

then throw kellen moore out of the heisman talk.

lol i thought it was an individual award... doesn't him gettin his stats outweight who he played?

IT'S NOT A TEAM AWARD!!!! :laugh

[GoOwls]

Dang...you guys are on top of it as usual. I love it when I come here...beat you down in debate sooooo bad you cant take it anymore. Soon come the sexual preference, yo momma, he's a she...etc. jokes.

A beat down man is a beat down man.

you would know.

[BDB]

Look at the the numbers. Colts INDIVIDUAL NUMBERS are not great for a QB. 25 rushing TDs and 1600 + yards in the Pac 10 is a bit more impressive...to top that...0 turnovers when Colt has a ton.

cool story, bro. gerhart might be a better player, but where you ****** up on is saying colt didn't deserve to win the award.

it's a close race this year, if you don't want to acknowledge that, and colt is easily a top 3 finalist along with gerhart.

[GoOwls]

I find it funny that a kid with LITTLE if any character has this to say.

"CHARACTER is not found in a bottle, a pipe, a doob, a line, a hit, a needle, or any other means of obsession that alters the mind and creates illusions of grandeur, no matter how hard you look for it there... If you have to prop it up with a substance....it ain't CHARACTER."

LMAO!!!!!!!!!

LMAO back at you.....I'll be retiring soon.....you're just an old fogey...if you're gonna get on here with these kids, you gotta get some game so you can hang with them.

These kids may not all like me, but I bet they at least respect my game...whether they would admit it or not.

I got enough character to discern that you are a hypocritical homer who sees what he/she sees, knows what he/she knows, and be damned with the facts.

[GoOwls]

No real revelation there....we've known for some time you don't get it.

Here is the case for Colt.

If he wasn't their QB, they would not be in a position to win the NC....period...he makes his team way better than they would be without him.

There are only two guys on the list that can make that claim...Colt and Tebow.....Stanford moves the ball without Gerhart.....the other RB does fine when he is being rotated in....nobody rotates in with Colt or Tebow....they play every offensive down....they are the key to a NC.

So if you want to push for a rotation player like Gerhard on a 3 loss team for the Heisman....go ahead....that would be like Marion Barber for MVP.....:rolleyes:

No...not really....history lesson ensues.

Archie Griffin...Earl Campbell...etc.....I don't remember them missing downs....at least not more than one or two after a long run....it wasn't a day of specialization....Stud RB's ran the freakin ball the whole damn game....period.

This is why it is ever harder and harder for me to embrace today's RB's for the Heisman...specialization has rendered their position to a more subordinate position and elevated the QB....especially since back in the day, most offenses were run oriented...today's offenses are QB/pass oriented....the run tends to be a by-product of the passing game...the fullback is almost history.

I noticed where it was mentioned in an earlier thread that Mack hasn't recruited top RB's....so what.....he's recruiting the top QB's and winning NC's and 10+ games a year.....the QB is the most important position, by far, in football in general now...since the spread of the West Coast offense and it's children.

The point is clearly stated in this thread. Someone picked Colt. I asked a simple question very nicely on why he picked Colt and asked him to explain what he thinks Colt has done to deserve the award. The funniest part is the little boys that are getting nasty and taking shots at what gender I am arent even the guy I was talking to.

The fact is that the little boys are still hungover from the beat down they recieved in the other threads and feel the only material or worth while crap they have to offer are cute pictures and he/she jokes. The funny thing is that they actually think they win doing so...lmao. Once again....

A beat down boy is beat down

OK....you didn't seem to be interested in responding to my posts about you and others issues with Colt, so, above, I refreshed your ailing memory.

If you care to respond this time, I'd really love to hear from 'ya....;)

[GoOwls]

Okay...
I guess it's a style choice...when I 'beat down' the kids...they know they've been beaten down...I don't have to keep telling them...

this and this.....

mad underscore fan is right-----on-----target...;)

[GoOwls]

Colt is an excellent system QB.....who...plays....every...down.....

see where this is going here?

Texas = 3 losses, at least w/o Colt.....NC contender with.

Stanford = 3 or 4 losses w/o Gerhart......3 losess with.

Colt much > Gerhart to his team.

and another old post on the subject for you to chew on, Katy fan....

[okt0ber]

Ive been talking about Gerhart ALL YEAR LONG!!! I have the ability to think outside the burnt orange box. Something alot of you lack.

I haven't seen it.... show me the thread. I'm not going to look outside the Burnt Orange Box when said box is the best box to be in this season.

[okt0ber]

Dang...you guys are on top of it as usual. I love it when I come here...beat you down in debate sooooo bad you cant take it anymore. Soon come the sexual preference, yo momma, he's a she...etc. jokes.

A beat down man is a beat down man.


LOL uh, I wasn't trying to beat anything down, I really thought you were a female poster....

[okt0ber]

They cant...they are 18 and mindless. They've been beaten to a pulp in the Heisman debate and they simply have nothing else to offer.


No one in this thread is 18. I know I'm well over that age, thanks.

[carter08]

Keenum. GO COOGS.

[GoOwls]

Keenum. GO COOGS.

Nice defense.....;) :D

[tayb]

Dude if you cant handle my opinion, feel free to sign off. I had already told you that I thought for some reason Ingram had better stats. I instantly corrected myself. Same goes for you...cant keep it clean because.....

A beat down man is beat down.

Oh I can handle plenty of your opinion. I just laugh it the idiocy spewing from your keyboard.

No, you didn't instantly correct yourself, you only corrected yourself after you were called out for being the hypocrite that you are. And you still haven't responded to my questions as to why Golden Tate is on your heisman list and not other much more deserving wide receivers??

And here it is again with your pathetically hypocritical ways...

One one hand team wins should have NOTHING to do with who wins...

Team wins should have NOTHING to do with who wins. The Heisman is a individual award and you can only play to the best of your abilitites...you cannot make your defense better or win games on your own.

...but on the other hand when your hypocrisy is pointed out you resort to the TEAM a player plays for as an excuse as to why he shouldn't win. Listen, I realize you have no idea what you are talking about but while you are busy looking like an idiot you could at least make up your mind and stop contradicting yourself over and over again.

And you're the new version of el prez. Funny thing is I didnt know that was you until this weekend.

UTEP! UTEP!

The guys doesnt play nobody.



lol. And you talk of "beat downs." :notworthy

[BlakeJ]

then throw kellen moore out of the heisman talk.

lol i thought it was an individual award... doesn't him gettin his stats outweight who he played?

IT'S NOT A TEAM AWARD!!!! :laugh


Kellen Moore might have played a schedule that was a TAD bit less difficult than Colt. Not sure if you got the memo or not, but the Big 12 is GARABAGE! OK sucks...OK State has been overrrated...Mizzewwwwww...K state...Colorado?? Those teams are trash. I think the guy earlier pointed out that well that Colt has struggled against anyone with any kind of defense and has eaten up the D2 like schools. If we reheld this vote and said...you cant pick the guy from your team...Colt would have 0!!!!!!

[BlakeJ]

cool story, bro. gerhart might be a better player, but where you ****** up on is saying colt didn't deserve to win the award.

it's a close race this year, if you don't want to acknowledge that, and colt is easily a top 3 finalist along with gerhart.

No...I dont think Colt deserves it because I think Gerhart does...that simple enough?? I doubt it.

[tayb]

Kellen Moore might have played a schedule that was a TAD bit less difficult than Colt. Not sure if you got the memo or not, but the Big 12 is GARABAGE! OK sucks...OK State has been overrrated...Mizzewwwwww...K state...Colorado?? Those teams are trash. I think the guy earlier pointed out that well that Colt has struggled against anyone with any kind of defense and has eaten up the D2 like schools. If we reheld this vote and said...you cant pick the guy from your team...Colt would have 0!!!!!!

Hmm... I wonder who faced the following rushing defenses.

Washington State #116
Wake Forest #93
San Jose State #119
Washington #84
UCLA #64
USC #52
Notre Dame #80

Oh. That would be Gerhart. Faced a couple of "tough" ones not mentioned here... but overall pretty pathetic slate of rushing defenses.

[BlakeJ]

LMAO back at you.....I'll be retiring soon.....you're just an old fogey...if you're gonna get on here with these kids, you gotta get some game so you can hang with them.

These kids may not all like me, but I bet they at least respect my game...whether they would admit it or not.

I got enough character to discern that you are a hypocritical homer who sees what he/she sees, knows what he/she knows, and be damned with the facts.

When you say "game"...do you mean the ability to post cute pictures...maybe run them through a little photoshop. How about the momma jokes...or he/she posts??

Is that the "game" you are saying I should acquire to be respected on a FOOTBALL board?? Sorry...but no thanks. As far as you having character?? Nope sorry...you're in the same class as the prez and the rest of the ill minded fodder roaming the board.

[GoOwls]

When you say "game"...do you mean the ability to post cute pictures...maybe run them through a little photoshop. How about the momma jokes...or he/she posts??

Is that the "game" you are saying I should acquire to be respected on a FOOTBALL board?? Sorry...but no thanks. As far as you having character?? Nope sorry...you're in the same class as the prez and the rest of the ill minded fodder roaming the board.

If you are referring to ill minded hypocrites like yourself...I think not.

BTW, big mouth....I've posted a response for you twice.....TWICE...and not a peep from you to defend your boy, Gerhart...last chance before pwnage is complete...just saying, school boy.

Try posts 67 and 69...if you can.

[BlakeJ]

OK....you didn't seem to be interested in responding to my posts about you and others issues with Colt, so, above, I refreshed your ailing memory.

If you care to respond this time, I'd really love to hear from 'ya....;)

You're claim that UT wouldnt be contending for a national title if Colt wasnt there....prove it. And I dont mean go power up the old PS3 and run through a season with Colt on the bench. Show me the outcome of the 45 games with the backup in. Until then lets stick to facts.

Fact: The Heisman trophy is defined as the most outstanding and dominant individual player in college football.

Fact: The Heisman is not SUPPOSED to be a team award...though recently it has been turned into one.

FICTION: UT did not win 45 games with Colt on the bench.

FICTION: Stanford played 11 games this season without Gerhart and still moved the ball and were as succesful as they were.

I agree with your assetion of the traansition of the college game going away from the hord nose run and more to the spread QB oriented offenses. Thats why it's even more impressive that Gerhart has the numbers that he does and Colt has average numbers for a QB this day and age. Seriously...3300 yards 29 total TDs and 13 turnovers. Those numbers are average at best for the QB position this day. Look back at the Heisman winners of past and show me the last QB winner with those kind of numbers.....keep looking...yup little further down....BAM Right THERE....Eric Crouch!!! That was a longggggg time ago. So a QB in this days pass happy explosive offenses that generate HUGE statistics for the QB...he is comparable to a 2001 option QB.

My point...his numbers are average at best...not OUTSTANDING...not DOMINANT.

For a RB in this day...Gerharts #'s are ALOT more impressive.

Sorry I passed up on your previous posts...they were actually some good points made and debatable material. Thank you for posting it.

[BlakeJ]

No one in this thread is 18. I know I'm well over that age, thanks.

Youre the only one here that KNOWS you are well over...cuz I surely cant tell.

[tayb]

You're claim that UT wouldnt be contending for a national title if Colt wasnt there....prove it. And I dont mean go power up the old PS3 and run through a season with Colt on the bench. Show me the outcome of the 45 games with the backup in. Until then lets stick to facts.


Colt has missed two games his entire college career.

Texas lost both of those games.

[F18mustang]

No one in this thread is 18. I know I'm well over that age, thanks.

lol wut

[okt0ber]

Youre the only one here that KNOWS you are well over...cuz I surely cant tell.


ok... and I can't tell you're a guy. LOL.

[JMSFan]

Only one vote for Tebow??????

[F18mustang]

Damn you Slorch. Quit your lurking.

[SLC]

With what's available thus far for comparisons with the top players in the nation, I'll take Colt.

[pied]

Ive been talking about Gerhart ALL YEAR LONG!!! I have the ability to think outside the burnt orange box. Something alot of you lack.


Just not on this board until 11/23, even when discussing the Heisman race.....





Dude if you cant handle my opinion, feel free to sign off. I had already told you that I thought for some reason Ingram had better stats. I instantly corrected myself. Same goes for you...cant keep it clean because.....

A beat down man is beat down.


New definition for "instantly" = 20 hours......


11/23 2:50PM

Really?? Sam Bradford was the best college player last year?? I was under the assumption along with most everyone else that Michael Crabtree was actually college's best player last year...he just didn;t play for the right team...which these days usually is the case.

Ive said it before...the Heisman is a joke these days...they need to change the name to the "Best Player On the Best Team" trophy.

Mark Ingram should win the award this year slightly over Toby Gerhart. Yet we all know that it's likely Tim Tebow or Colt McCoy.



11/24 10:10AM

I knew Jimmy wasnt winning the Heisman once the game clock against USC hit 0:00. Thats how the Heisman works now a days...it's more of a team award then a single player award. Thus being a joke and a mirage of what the award used to be.

Look at the front runners...Colt and Tebow. Its plain as day that those two guys werent the best players in college football this year. They werent even the best QBs. Keenum and the Boise QB played better then both all year. Heck..Clausen played better than both this year. Not to mention the handful of RBs and WRs that were better. Here is my Heisman list recognizing the best players in college football.

1) Toby Gerhart
2) Mark Ignram
3) Case Keenum
4) Kellen Moore
5) Golden Tate
6) Jordan Shipley
7) Ryan Matthews
8) Jimmy Clausen
9) Danario Alexander
10) Colt McCoy

Tebow shouldnt even be in the discussion. This really should be Gerharts award.

282 attempts 1531 yards 23 TDs and the big one ZERO TURNOVERS!

[pied]

My vote would go to Colt and not ashamed to say it has some orange tint to it. it boggles my mind that people get so worked up about a definiteve winner and are so vehement that so and so should or shouldn't win.

In the end when you try to prove your case, typically you end up downgrading the opponent. It wouldn't hurt my feelings at all, although I would be disappointed, to see Gerhart win. I do think that Colt's season > Tebow's, but I also don't see Gerhart out there as having a clearly heads above dominant season.

Last year I wanted Colt to win, but think the voters likely got it right. I do think it will come down in many voters' minds to this weekend.

[BlakeJ]

Colt has missed two games his entire college career.

Texas lost both of those games.

One more time....show me the 44 games that the Longhorns lost with Colt on the bench. Thank you.

[BDB]

One more time....show me the 44 games that the Longhorns lost with Colt on the bench. Thank you.

or..... you can take the 2 games he missed, and check the wins/losses....

[BlakeJ]

or..... you can take the 2 games he missed, and check the wins/losses....

Can you also show me the two wins Colt has on the weeks Texas lost without him?

Again all speculation and assumptions. Classic.

[BoomerSooner]

.....who...plays ....every...down.....

see where this is going here?

Texas = 3 losses, at least w/o Colt.....NC contender with.

Stanford = 3 or 4 losses w/o Gerhart......3 losess with.

Colt much > Gerhart to his team.

This is the most asinine argument in the history of the internet.

1) How could you possibly quantify how many losses UT or Stanford would have without their best player without making at least a single statistical point? All you did was make up some ridiculously contrived numbers that favor your point.

2) You only prove how little you've watched of Stanford claiming they move the ball just fine without Gerhart. Their next leading rusher is Andrew Luck, the QB, with 354 yards. The 2nd best runningback is averaging less than 5 attempts per game for just under 25 yards.

3) He leads the country in rushing attempts, so saying he's a rotation player is essentially the acme of stupidity. In fact, among the top 100 players in rushing ypg there is 1 player within 40 carries of his total, and even he's 24 short.

Here (http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2009&rpt=IA_playerrush&site=org&div=IA&dest=O)

4) There's no way Stanford loses only 3 or 4 games with Gerhart not there, especially considering they've lost 4 with him. Even if you replace him with the 20th best runningback, Here (http://espn.go.com/college-football/statistics/player/_/stat/rushing/sort/rushingYards), Jonathan Dwyer, that still puts Stanford an average of 42 yards and 8+ points per game lower. Meaning in addition to their 4 losses they probably also lose to UCLA, Oregon, and Notre Dame given his role in each, and their margin of victory. That takes them from 8-4 to 5-7. HUGE difference.

No...not really....history lesson ensues.

Archie Griffin...Earl Campbell...etc.....I don't remember them missing downs....at least not more than one or two after a long run....it wasn't a day of specialization....Stud RB's ran the freakin ball the whole damn game....period.

Here's a history lesson. In Earl's Heisman season he ran the ball 296 times for 1860 yards or 24.7 cpg for 155 ypg. Gerhart, through the same number of games, has ran the ball 311 times for 1736 yards or 25.9 cpg for 144.7 ypg. They're almost identical.

That's why everyone likes Gerhart, he's exactly like those guys. He carries that entire Stanford team on his shoulders to the tune of 26 carries per game. They'd be nowhere without him.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/tex/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/all-records_earl_campbell.pdf

There are only two guys on the list that can make that claim...Colt and Tebow.....Stanford moves the ball without Gerhart.....the other RB does fine when he is being rotated in....nobody rotates in with Colt or Tebow....they play every offensive down.

No, there aren't. That's just the nature of playing the quarterback position. It's not the same as the wide receiver or runningback where the personnel might change based on whether you're passing or rushing. Andrew Luck might be in on more plays than Gerhart, but about half of them he's just handing the ball off and letting Gerhart do the work. This isn't some recent development in football either, it's been like this even when every down backs were more of a staple.

[BoomerSooner]

Colt has missed two games his entire college career.

Texas lost both of those games.

Which 2 games did he miss? I assume you're talking about Kansas State and A&M in 2006?

Just for the record, Colt played almost the entire A&M game, attempting 28 passes. You can't just not count it if he didn't play well.

[BoomerSooner]

My vote would go to Gerhart, as he's had a fantastic season playing around average talent in a tough conference.

That being said, he won't win it from an 8-4 Stanford team. Everyone knows this going ahead. It's solely between Colt McCoy and Tim Tebow. I wouldn't have a problem with either winning it, as they're both fantastic players and people, but I don't feel either is the MOST deserving.

[CCDawgs]

This is the most asinine argument in the history of the internet.

1) How could you possibly quantify how many losses UT or Stanford would have without their best player without making at least a single statistical point? All you did was make up some ridiculously contrived numbers that favor your point.

2) You only prove how little you've watched of Stanford claiming they move the ball just fine without Gerhart. Their next leading rusher is Andrew Luck, the QB, with 354 yards. The 2nd best runningback is averaging less than 5 attempts per game for just under 25 yards.

3) He leads the country in rushing attempts, so saying he's a rotation player is essentially the acme of stupidity. In fact, among the top 100 players in rushing ypg there is 1 player within 40 carries of his total, and even he's 24 short.

Here (http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2009&rpt=IA_playerrush&site=org&div=IA&dest=O)

4) There's no way Stanford loses only 3 or 4 games with Gerhart not there, especially considering they've lost 4 with him. Even if you replace him with the 20th best runningback, Here (http://espn.go.com/college-football/statistics/player/_/stat/rushing/sort/rushingYards), Jonathan Dwyer, that still puts Stanford an average of 42 yards and 8+ points per game lower. Meaning in addition to their 4 losses they probably also lose to UCLA, Oregon, and Notre Dame given his role in each, and their margin of victory. That takes them from 8-4 to 5-7. HUGE difference.



Here's a history lesson. In Earl's Heisman season he ran the ball 296 times for 1860 yards or 24.7 cpg for 155 ypg. Gerhart, through the same number of games, has ran the ball 311 times for 1736 yards or 25.9 cpg for 144.7 ypg. They're almost identical.

That's why everyone likes Gerhart, he's exactly like those guys. He carries that entire Stanford team on his shoulders to the tune of 26 carries per game. They'd be nowhere without him.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/tex/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/all-records_earl_campbell.pdf



No, there aren't. That's just the nature of playing the quarterback position. It's not the same as the wide receiver or runningback where the personnel might change based on whether you're passing or rushing. Andrew Luck might be in on more plays than Gerhart, but about half of them he's just handing the ball off and letting Gerhart do the work. This isn't some recent development in football either, it's been like this even when every down backs were more of a staple.

Thhhhaaaaannnnnkkkkkkkkkk you. :notworthy:notworthy

[GoOwls]

This is the most asinine argument in the history of the internet.

1) How could you possibly quantify how many losses UT or Stanford would have without their best player without making at least a single statistical point? All you did was make up some ridiculously contrived numbers that favor your point.

2) You only prove how little you've watched of Stanford claiming they move the ball just fine without Gerhart. Their next leading rusher is Andrew Luck, the QB, with 354 yards. The 2nd best runningback is averaging less than 5 attempts per game for just under 25 yards.

3) He leads the country in rushing attempts, so saying he's a rotation player is essentially the acme of stupidity. In fact, among the top 100 players in rushing ypg there is 1 player within 40 carries of his total, and even he's 24 short.

Here (http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2009&rpt=IA_playerrush&site=org&div=IA&dest=O)

4) There's no way Stanford loses only 3 or 4 games with Gerhart not there, especially considering they've lost 4 with him. Even if you replace him with the 20th best runningback, Here (http://espn.go.com/college-football/statistics/player/_/stat/rushing/sort/rushingYards), Jonathan Dwyer, that still puts Stanford an average of 42 yards and 8+ points per game lower. Meaning in addition to their 4 losses they probably also lose to UCLA, Oregon, and Notre Dame given his role in each, and their margin of victory. That takes them from 8-4 to 5-7. HUGE difference.



Here's a history lesson. In Earl's Heisman season he ran the ball 296 times for 1860 yards or 24.7 cpg for 155 ypg. Gerhart, through the same number of games, has ran the ball 311 times for 1736 yards or 25.9 cpg for 144.7 ypg. They're almost identical.

That's why everyone likes Gerhart, he's exactly like those guys. He carries that entire Stanford team on his shoulders to the tune of 26 carries per game. They'd be nowhere without him.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/tex/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/all-records_earl_campbell.pdf



No, there aren't. That's just the nature of playing the quarterback position. It's not the same as the wide receiver or runningback where the personnel might change based on whether you're passing or rushing. Andrew Luck might be in on more plays than Gerhart, but about half of them he's just handing the ball off and letting Gerhart do the work. This isn't some recent development in football either, it's been like this even when every down backs were more of a staple.

Thanks for doing my legwork for me.....kids....sooner kids with nothing to do now....thank God for 'em.

My point is just fine, now that you proved it for me.

Sure, Earl and Gerhart's numbers are close, but Gerhart plays four quarters, his team doesn't blow anybody out.

Earl was taking a seat after halftime or the third quarter on pretty good teams that needed him to run like mad for a while then take a seat to not risk injury....he took over games and made 4th qtr. heroics unnecessary.

Look, I'm not saying that Gerhart is trash or something....I respect the guy, he has heart and talent...but his team functions well with out him in the lineup.....Texas wouldn't be better than 9-3, 8-4 without Colt....possibly worse.

[78 Spartan]

Hmm... I wonder who faced the following rushing defenses.

Washington State #116
Wake Forest #93
San Jose State #119
Washington #84
UCLA #64
USC #52
Notre Dame #80

Oh. That would be Gerhart. Faced a couple of "tough" ones not mentioned here... but overall pretty pathetic slate of rushing defenses.


Don't want to let this one go unanswered. If you check the NCAA team defense statistics, you'll see that Stanford's opponents had an average ranking of 58.75 in rushing defense. Given that there are 120 D1 teams, that means Gerhart faced very close to an "average" schedule in terms of rushing defenses. The top ranked defenses he faced were 13th, 19th, 21st and 23rd in the nation against the run. Here's the link (http://www.ncaa.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/ncaa-m-footbl-fbs-team-rushing-defense.html).

If you check the same statistics, you'll see that Texas' opponents had an average ranking of 81.75 in passing defense. This means McCoy faced a decidedly below average schedule in terms of passing defenses. The top ranked defenses he faced were 22nd, 40th, 71st and 72nd in the nation against the pass. Here's the link (http://www.ncaa.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/ncaa-m-footbl-fbs-team-pass-defense.html).

By the way, if you assume that Ingram faced tougher defenses than did Gerhart, then go check the stats. Alabama faced 11 D-1A teams. If you exclude the D-1AA game against Tennessee-Chattanoooga, Alabama's opponents had an average ranking of 73rd in rushing defense. Not as weak as Texas' opponents against the pass, but certainly weaker than Stanford's opponents against the run. The top ranked run defenses Alabama faced were 44th, 50th, 54th and 58th in the nation.

FYI.

[78 Spartan]

NOT who you think WILL win, but who you think SHOULD win.

If I had a vote, it would be

1. Toby Gerhart
2. Ndamukong Suh
3. Case Keenum
4. Colt McCoy
5. Golden Tate



After yesterday's games, we know without question that Tebow is out of the picture; McCoy didn't help himself at all. The guy who made the best case for himself yesterday is Ndamukong Suh. Ingram had a good game against Florida and Spiller played great in the game nobody watched.

I'd still vote for Gerhart over Ingram. Ingram is a fine RB but a lot of people can be the feature back on a team that good. Gerhart carried Stanford on his back and deserves the Heisman. The only guy who I could justify taking it away from Gerhart is Suh.

[BDB]

after it's all said and done, i think ingram takes it. he had a good game against the number 1 defense in college football.

i think it'll be neck and neck with gerhart and colt, now. with tebow bringing up the 4th spot, and that dude from boise no one cares about in 5th.

[stevefoxsc]

ingram, no questions needed.

[CCDawgs]

ingram, no questions needed.
agreed. he took it away.

1.Ingram
2.Gerhart
3.McCoy
4.Tebow
5.Spiller

[v2the4]

with most of the voters for the heisman, its gonna be about what they last saw with a particular player. The votes are due in on monday. what most people last saw was Alabama RB Mark Ingram shread previous national champion and #1 rated Defense in the Florida gators for 113 yards rushing and about 85 yards in receptions, even with his horrible game the week before vs Auburn.

what most voters last saw was Ndamkong Suh just shread the first and second team Big 12 linemen Texas had and sack Colt McCoy, the 1st team all big 12 QB and heismen runner up last year 4.5 times and he had nine tackles..no one could single handidly block this guy alone....no one

what most voters last saw was Toby Gerhardt take Notre Dame, Cal and Oregon behind the woodshed, getting each one for over 200 yards, in addition to getting 200 plus on Washington after they upset then ranked USC

what most voters last saw was Colt McCoy get harrassed and pretty much shutdown by Nebraska one week after he threw for 306 and ran fore 175 vs the Aggies

what most voters last saw was Tim Tebow crying on the sideline with a minute left in the game. Tebow is a great college player, but he shouldnt be in the heisman picture.

what most voters last saw was Case Keenum throw for 532 yards on 74 attempts and five touchdowns vs East Carolina in the C-USA championship game....they also saw him throw three interceptions, two of them in the end zone, and they saw his UH team beat three BCS opponents, but lose to UTEP, Central Florida and East Carolina, all games UH was favored to win..

what most voters last saw was Clemson running back CJ Spiller dart left, dart right, dart up the middle and shread Georgia Tech for 233 yards and four touchdowns...Spiller also set the NCAA career kickoff return record this year...he is a speedster and if it wasnt for Ingram and Gerhardt, he'd be the running back everyone would be talkin about

most voters saw Boise St QB Kellen Clemens light up the WAC this year with touchdowns and lead the nation in passing efficiency...they also saw Boise have to outscore Fresno St, Tulsa, Louisiana Tech and Nevada on ESPN, all either Friday night or mid week games..

all in all, here is how my ballot would be:
1)ingram
2)McCoy
3)Suh
4)Gerhardt
5)Keenum
6)Spiller
7)Clausen
8)Tebow
9)LeFevre-QB Central Michigan
10)Clemens