Dallas Mavericks 2009-2010 Thread [Archive] - Page 5

yankee

05-03-2010, 01:30 PM

I leave slc93 with this...

Junior Miller, noted Spurs fan and Ticket host in Dallas, goes into a little more detail.

What Dirk gives you on the offensive end (and even that can be somewhat limited, as we'll get to in a moment), he also takes away on the defensive end and in the leadership department. He presents a real challenge for a franchise that tries to build around him--can you win a title when your best player is your worst defender? And not just your worst defender--he's a guy who plays power forward, which is traditionally a very important defensive position. Practically every NBA champ has had a power forward who was able to get down and dirty--able to defend the rim, clean the glass, play good/great man to man defense, and be an enforcer. Sometimes you can get away with an average defender at power forward and still win a title, but you better have Russell or Kareem or Shaq as your big man, not Haywood and Dampier.
The biggest issue? Dirk is a small forward in a power forward's frame.

Every year in the playoffs, games turn into a layup drill for the Dallas opponent. Why? One big reason is because the Mavs have a 7 foot power forward who plays like a 6'8 small forward. Let's face it--Dallas would be a considerably better team if Dirk had stopped growing at 6'8. That would allow him the ability to play the 3 (the position that his game his designed for), and the Mavs could go and get a true power forward to play alongside the center of their choice--greatly fortifying thier interior defense. We all get upset with Haywood and Dampier for not protecting the rim enough, but consider their plight: they have no power forward to help them. Even a great defender like Duncan has struggled to control the paint without a Robinson or Horry or other long defender to help.

BlakeJ

05-03-2010, 01:37 PM

So do you think if Dirk was a "true #1", those other guys would have hit their open shots and gave more effort? I doubt it. His supporting cast laid a big, fat turd and they were going to lay it no matter who the #1 was.

What about all of the other supporting casts?? 10 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

10 YEARS of NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Show me how many players we consider elite #1's dont have a trophy after playing 10 years in the league.

Keep looking.

BlakeJ

05-03-2010, 01:39 PM

SLC93

05-03-2010, 01:57 PM

Soooooo it takes less than a Kobe but more than a HOF PG, Caron Butler, Shawn Marion, Jason Terry...etc.???. Interesting equation you got going there. Isnt Jason kidd at his age now a "great but not elite type?" Isnt Caron Butler a great bu not elite player?? How about Jason Terry or Shawn Marion? I suppose if you fill a team with 10 great but not Elite players...you will win alot of games but come up short in the playoffs....hmmmmm...sounds familiar.

I don't know how many times it has to be put on the blackboard for you. Jason Kidd is still a very good player with enough in his tank to help a team to a title. He is not the scoring threat Dirk needs to help him through to a title. If you're definition of great is a 15-19 point a game scorer, which is what Caron is, there is your probelme, in a nutshell. Caron is a good player that is sometimes great not a great player that is sometimes elite. Marion is 4 years removed from being a great player. He is a great defender now and merely good in other areas. Terry, again, has been putrid down the stretch for the last two seasons now. Even when he is on fire and helping you he is a defensive liability and a poor ball handler. Elite and great players show up every night, not 2 out of 5 or 3 out of 8. You seriously need to tighten your parameters for slotting players.

Using your assumption.

Gasol + Kobe = 1 Ring

Dirk + Kobe = 3 Rings

BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

Dirk w/o Kobe = 0 Rings.

I mean you're saying it exactly how I am. Dirk needs a Kobe. Dirk has Jason Kidd, Caron butler, Shawn Marion, Jason Terry. Those are all pretty decent #2's on most any other team. How many #2's does Dirk need?? You yourself talked this team up all year...now all of a sudden they suck and everyone but Dirk is worthless?? No...that team is filled with stars...all they need is a true #1.
No, my reasoning showed the difference in output that two MVP'S gives you versus an elite & a great. I addressed the deficiency of your slotting process previous. I did talk this team up all year. They got outplayed and outcoached. They do not suck but they are flawed. By admitting and expounding upon these shortcomings am I not going directly against your homer label. You throw star around sooooo loosely. Ask around. Hold a mythical draft of LA's lineup and Dallas. Pau, Bynum go before any Mav. In fact, of the top 8 picks, 5 would be Lakers.
Dear SLC93,

Dirk Nowitzki this year had a better supporting cast than Kobe Bryant last year. Dirk Nowitzki this year has a better supporting cast than Tim Duncan's Spurs who just walloped them. Why cant Dirk Nowitzkis Mavs beat teams in the playoffs that they should?? I'll tell you why...those teams have legitimate # 1's. Dallas doesnt.
Done debating supporting casts at this point. When healthy, most of the rules go out the window with the Spurs due to the rivalry and familiarity. Your point about a true one would actually make sense if Dirk wasn't averaging 27 & 12 for the Mavs in the last 3 playoffs. Say it outloud and real slow, 27 &12.

Remember...two years ago LA went to the Finals without Bynum. That lineup had a guy named Radmanovic. Does he even play anymore?? you're purposely overrating the Lakers succesful lineups and underrating the Mavs unsucceful lineups to make your point. I think everyone here knows....

Dirk + Kidd + Caron + Marion + Terry > Gasol + Fisher + Kobe + Odom + Radmonovic in whole.

Why can LA do it but Dallas cant?? Dallas doesnt have a Kobe Bryant. They dont have a true #1.Well the answer, to anyone who knows this game, is that Gasol is just a notch below elite. Butler, at his best, is several notches below that. It's all about the second superstar. Dirk does not have one. You cannot argue against 30 years of evidence. With the exception of the Pistons a few years ago, you must have multiple superstars to win a title in this league. It's a simple numbers game. With two superstars you cannot negate an dvantage with a double team. If you double them both you're left with 1 guy defending 3.

I dont need Blue tinted glasses to see far. Look what Dirk has done with the teams hes had?? His teams have been better than some teams that won championships in those years. Dirk outside of regular seasons hasnt accomplished much of anything....especially in a 10 year span.
Aside from the Miami series, which was for the title, name one team from dallas that was on par with or better than the champion. You can't because that was utter ignorance.

So now you're backpedaling on the Jason Kidd trade?? Jason Kidd is now not good enough of a PG to help win?? 2 Months ago he was one of the best PG's in league history and still had plenty in the tank. Look what Dirk has!!!!!!!!!!! A number of all stars...one fo the best PGs ever. Alot of teams have won with far less!!!!!!!! You're being biased SLC93...not I. remember I dont have a dog in the fight....you do
You keep showing your backside here. How many times in one day do I have to blatantly say that the JKidd trade was the right thing to do and a success? There is no backpedal here. He's a classic pg who still does his job well. He's not a scorer. Again, name the teams that have won with far less. It won't get to the definition of alot, I assure you. I have no dog in this fight. My fight is only against ignorance and the regurgitation of what mainstream media has put out for the masses, nothing more. Congratualtions on being right. Of course with the built in odds of me only having a 1 in 30 chance of being right is nice for you.

Dirk has had ALOT of people...Theyve built the team around Dirk. Rebuilt the team around Dirk. Tried drafting around Dirk. Bought players to surround Dirk. All attempts above were unsuccesful. At what point do you start reconsidering how you are building the team??
The current version of the Mavs is the only one you can point two and say should have had a real chance. Look at the pieces, Go and look at them. Compare them to the champion rosters of the corresponding year. There is no comparision. You build in the league around your superstars and you do it until you get it right or they are gone. The beef is with the front office execution, not their effort or Dirk.

It's ok, man. I know more than you but you've got promise.

SLC93

05-03-2010, 02:06 PM

I leave slc93 with this...

Junior Miller, noted Spurs fan and Ticket host in Dallas, goes into a little more detail.

The biggest issue? Dirk is a small forward in a power forward's frame.

The biggest issue with this analysis is that most every NBA beat person will tell you that Dirk has made him self into a better than average defender. Our issues have arisen historically from the inability of our perimeter guys to stay in from of anyone. SA has excelled through the years with Ginobilli and Bowen out there on the wings, in addition to Parker who creates havoc with his speed. Not excusing Dirk or hailing him as something he's not but this is a myth that is the result of his poor play on the defensive end his first 3 years in the league. Spare me the clean the glass crap, too. The dude averages close to 10 for his career and over 11 in the playoffs. What more do you want there? The type of power forward that is being described is a strong role player, like Rodman, playing with superstars or Duncan, who is a 5 but insists on being listed as a 4. Where are these great pf's you elude to? Did Miami have one? Was Rasheed Wallace that guy for detroit? Name the power forward for SA's titles, aside from when Robinson and Duncan were together? Chicagoe did it with Rodman in one run and grant in the other. LA before Gasol? Name the difference maker at the 4. I'll take the 27 and 12 of the last 3 years and the 26 and 11 for his career and roll the dice.

SLC93

05-03-2010, 02:08 PM

What about all of the other supporting casts?? 10 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

10 YEARS of NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Show me how many players we consider elite #1's dont have a trophy after playing 10 years in the league.

Keep looking.

Uhhhhh ... you realize that aside from one hit wonder Miami 5 franchises have the last 27 titles, right? And a few of those were only won after several of these stars got paired.

BlakeJ

05-03-2010, 02:47 PM

BlakeJ

05-03-2010, 02:51 PM

You know...after looking at the numbers I just posted...looks like Dallas doesnt matchup at 1 and 2 on the list while beating LA at 3, 4, 5,and 6. I mean really....It couldnt be anymore clear. Dallas lacks a true #1.

SLC93

05-03-2010, 03:28 PM

You said:

"I don't know how many times it has to be put on the blackboard for you. Jason Kidd is still a very good player with enough in his tank to help a team to a title. He is not the scoring threat Dirk needs to help him through to a title. If you're definition of great is a 15-19 point a game scorer, which is what Caron is, there is your probelme, in a nutshell. Caron is a good player that is sometimes great not a great player that is sometimes elite. Marion is 4 years removed from being a great player. He is a great defender now and merely good in other areas. Terry, again, has been putrid down the stretch for the last two seasons now. Even when he is on fire and helping you he is a defensive liability and a poor ball handler. Elite and great players show up every night, not 2 out of 5 or 3 out of 8. You seriously need to tighten your parameters for slotting players."

Kobe Bryant 26.8 ppg
Pau Gasol 18.9 ppg
Andrew Bynum 14.3 ppg
Lamar Odom 11.3 ppg
Derek Fisher 9.9 ppg
Trevor Ariza 8.9 ppg
...................................
Dirk Nowitzki 25.0 ppg
Jason Terry 16.6 ppg
Caron Butler 16.3 ppg
Shawn Marion 12.0 ppg
Jason Kidd 10.3 ppg
Brenden Heywood 9.1 ppg

--------------------------------------

Why could one team do it...but the other couldnt?? You're losing on all accounts here SLC93. Dallas Mavs havent and never will win an NBA title while centered around Dirk Nowitzki. He doesnt have what it takes to lead a team. They need a leader and #1 threat. But I love how you are down playing Caron Butler, Jason Terry, Jason Kidd and Shawn marion while overrating the Laker guys not named Kobe. Pau's almost an elite guy....LMAO!!!! No wonder you arent having an easy time translating the information being presented to you.

Yanks article was spot on. We get it...SLC93 knows his basketball....everyone else in the world doesnt.

In a vacuum your ppg stat would be very telling. Unfortunately for you, the game isnt played inside of a vacuum. You're not accounting for anything other than point total. Not the %'s, not the efficiency, not the rebounding, the the defense.... nothing.

You're estimation of Pau Gasol is all any real fan needs to know. Guess 7 foot guys that can give you 20/10/2 most every night are in mass abundance or did you forget that this man once had the Memphis Grizzlies winning 50 games a year.

It wasn't Yank's article. It was an opinion presented by a radio guy who is an avid Spurs fan. As the very existence of this boards displays, opinions vary and are constant.

Anyway, it's been fun but I'm done with this topic. It's played out. You're not without merit. I just have more, as it applies here and that is the most truthful i can be.

Looking forward to watching the rest of the playoffs and the much anticipated summer of 2010.

lonny23

05-03-2010, 03:42 PM

This. The casual fan doesn't distinguish between really good 2's and #1's, outside of Kobe and Lebron. All you Dirk haters ever need to know about Dirk, aside from his undeniable numbers, are the feelings of Popovich. I dare you to go a read what Pop has to say about Dirk and his game. He absolutely loves him and thinks he's a warrior.

At his best Pau is a great 2 but he's nowhere near a one. Dirk has flat owned him throughout his career in their head to heads.
#1 guys approach 40 quality points or more a game. You don't even enter the conversation of being a #1 if you don't have at least 35 quality points a game. Manu never has been a #1 and never will. He doesn't score enough or go crazy enough in the other areas to be a #1, but he's a very good #2. Pau is a #2 and it took Kobe for him to win in the playoffs.

Dirk is obviously a #1 and for all the credit KG has gotten over the years, historically he's won a lot less in the playoffs than Dirk. It took playing with Pierce and having Allen for him to win playoff rounds.

Dirk will be All-NBA for the 10th straight year this year and he's been a Top 10 player in most of those years (MVP voting through the years and being 1st or 2nd Team All-NBA).

Matthew 2000 Eagle

05-03-2010, 03:48 PM

#1 guys approach 40 quality points or more a game. You don't even enter the conversation of being a #1 if you don't have at least 35 quality points a game. Manu never has been a #1 and never will. He doesn't score enough or go crazy enough in the other areas to be a #1, but he's a very good #2. Pau is a #2 and it took Kobe for him to win in the playoffs.

Dirk is obviously a #1 and for all the credit KG has gotten over the years, historically he's won a lot less in the playoffs than Dirk. It took playing with Pierce and having Allen for him to win playoff rounds.

Dirk will be All-NBA for the 10th straight year this year and he's been a Top 10 player in most of those years (MVP voting through the years and being 1st or 2nd Team All-NBA).

Things that make you say "HMMMMMMMMM".

lonny23

05-03-2010, 03:48 PM

If you can get him without giving Butler or Roddy, i.e. a straight salary dump, you're in business. I'd really like to see Butler stay as the 3 with Marion our primary b/u at the 3 & 4 for defensive purposes. Dallas then needs to use it's entire mle, whether it be on one player or split between two, and it's BAE.

They need to add a superstar, secure a true b/u for the point, get Haywood locked up and get a Gooden for the frontline rotation.

Kidd/?
Iggy/Roddy
Butler/Marion
Dirk/Gooden
Haywood/?

Fill in the ?'s appropriately and that team could do some damage.
1. I expect Dallas will keep Dirk and Haywood.
2. I think there is a good chance Gooden comes back.
3. I think Damp comes back after the trade.
4. I don't know who we'll give up if we trade for a crazy good guy.
5. Tim Thomas will probably be back as a backup.
6. I want more burn for Roddy.
7. I prefer Butler at the 3 and Marion as a backup.

lonny23

05-03-2010, 03:52 PM

You're once again probably overrating Dirk a little bit. Dirk is great yes...but he's soft. he doesnt have the personality or toughness to leaad a team and that has shown for over a decade now. You act as if Dirk has no help...no players by his side. Wellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll...........

Earlier in the year you were defending the Jason Kidd trade. Jason Kidd is a first ballot HOF'r isnt he?? You say Dirk is. Thats two first ballot HOF'rs on one team. Lets add Jason Terry and Caron Butler. Dont stop there...Brenden...Roddy. Let me show you something.

Dirk Nowitzki > Pau Gasol
Jason Kidd > Derek Fisher
Caron Butler < Kobe Bryant
Jason Terry > Vladimir Radmanovic
Brenden Haywood < Andrew Bynum
Shawn Marion = Lamar Odom

One of these teams went to the NBA Finals

Dirk Nowitzki > Pau Gasol
Jason Kidd > Derek Fisher
Caron Butler < Kobe Bryant
Jason Terry > Trevor Ariza
Brenden Haywood < Andrew Bynum
Shawn Marion = Lamar Odom

One of these teams went to and WON an NBA Finals

One of these teams has a legit #1 guy....one doesnt. I'll let you put the pieces of the puzzle together. Try to do so as an NBA fan and not a homer please. :)
1. Dirk isn't soft.
2. Dirk won't gripe or demand the ball.
3. Dirk's teammates spend too much time "Getting their's" and not riding the horse.

Too many people call a person soft for not being selfish. If anything, I blame the Mavs coaches for letting the players freeze Dirk out for long stretches.

lonny23

05-03-2010, 04:00 PM

Not sure how you over rate a guy that just put up 27 points(on 55% from the field 57%from 3 and 95 from the lines), 8 rebounds and 3 assists with a per of +29 in the playoffs, has a career average of 23 & 9 in the regular season, 26 and 11 in the playoffs, has won an MVP and led his team to 50+ victories for 10 straight season. Maybe you can expound upon that with more insightful statements refering to his leadership type?

As for being soft, Dirk never misses time, heals faster than anyone I've ever seen and never uses an injury for an excuse. You're being myopic and allowing yourself to view the game as it was played 20 years ago. In other words, Dirk is a 7 footer therefore he has to play in the paint or he is soft. Ridiculous. Soft guys don't get 11 rebounds a game for their career in the playoffs.

I will continue to defend the Kidd trade. He is a first ballot HOF guy but stop manipulating statements and facts. Kidd offers Dirk no assistance as a scorer. He is a pg, possibly the purest one we've ever seen. Dallas needs another elite scorer, period, preferably one with an aggressive game.

You're not looking at your team analogies correctly, as it applies to the game. Kobe and Dirk are the #1's, period, and Kobe is the greater of those two. Gasol and Butler are the #2's. I love Butler but Gasol is the far superior player. It's not a position to position analysis. It's the pecking order in the flow of the game. Kidd is better than Fisher. Odom and Marion are a wash. You're outside of you're head if you think Terry was more valuable than Ariza. Terry has been absolutely putrid for two straight post seasons now.

If Dallas acquires Gasol for Howard, a rumored offer, LA has no titles. It's all about putting that great two next to your 1. Kobe could barely qualify for the playoffs and couldn't win a series before Gasol arrived. Dirk has never had a two of that merit next to him.Dallas had a better offer for Pau than the Lakers, but look who was running things in Memphis, the old Laker and former GM, Jerry West. I've also read where the Griz owner didn't want to trade with Cuban.

This would also be a good time for a gripe I might've said before, but I was thinking about earlier today. I hate how I hear a few times a year about the NBA brokering a trade. When a trade is about to go down, it always has to get NBA approval and I'm fine with the legalities of that, but it always irks me that league sources are always who are quoted when a trade is being done. It's almost like the NBA decides what trades can go through and which ones they don't want. It's another case of being the puppetmaster.

lonny23

05-03-2010, 04:04 PM

So then you agree with me. If Dirk had a Kobe Bryant...he'd win a championship.

That was a short debate.

Here is where I think you're being a homer and consistantly partial to Dirk.

You just gave me 100 excuses to why Dirk can't win a championship. None of which are Dirks fault. I have news for you. There has really only been one constant in this decade of dissapointment called the Dallas Mavericks. Dirk Nowitzki! How many times have they built the team and rebuilt the team around Dirk. How many times have they went out ond bought or traded pieces around Dirk? It seems like no matter what is dealt it ends in dissapointment. Are you telling me it's everyone else??

Im saying it's not. Im saying that Dallas will NEVER win a championship with Dirk Nowitzki as the center piece. Never! Dirk needs to become Pau Gasol. The day Dallas stops building AROUND Dirk and goes out and gets that true #1 is the day they are alot better.

Dallas replaces Butler with Wade...heck even keep Kidd and Terry. The Mavs become Dwayne Wades Mavs....Im putting my money on them.

Like I said.....

Pau Gasol won an NBA title with Derek Fisher, Trevor Ariza, Bynum, and Odom.

Dirk didn't with Kidd, Butler, Marion, Terry, and Heywood.

the day Dirk becomes Pau and a second option to a Kobe...is the day Dallas wins a championship. Until then....ITS A WRAP!Dirk wins a title with the right #1 guy and it can be somebody worse than Dirk. Dirk will also win with 2 legit 2's (Not guys who might've been a 2 a few years ago).

yallerjacket2

05-03-2010, 04:54 PM

Dirk wins a title with the right #1 guy and it can be somebody worse than Dirk. Dirk will also win with 2 legit 2's (Not guys who might've been a 2 a few years ago).

Hell, Dirk can win a title without another #1. He's already shown that. Doesn't mean the NBA will let it happen though.

BlakeJ

05-03-2010, 06:59 PM

Hell, Dirk can win a title without another #1. He's already shown that. Doesn't mean the NBA will let it happen though.

:rofl:

Did I sleep for an entire season?? Dirk won a championship?

BlakeJ

05-03-2010, 07:01 PM

In a vacuum your ppg stat would be very telling. Unfortunately for you, the game isnt played inside of a vacuum. You're not accounting for anything other than point total. Not the %'s, not the efficiency, not the rebounding, the the defense.... nothing.

You're estimation of Pau Gasol is all any real fan needs to know. Guess 7 foot guys that can give you 20/10/2 most every night are in mass abundance or did you forget that this man once had the Memphis Grizzlies winning 50 games a year.

It wasn't Yank's article. It was an opinion presented by a radio guy who is an avid Spurs fan. As the very existence of this boards displays, opinions vary and are constant.

Anyway, it's been fun but I'm done with this topic. It's played out. You're not without merit. I just have more, as it applies here and that is the most truthful i can be.

Looking forward to watching the rest of the playoffs and the much anticipated summer of 2010.

You're kidding right? Hard to argue with a homer. There guy is always the best.

If you cant beat...say you did and run off I guess.

Dallas will never win a championship built around Dirk. I have history on my side. You have....well nothing to be honest...just your love for the Mavs and Dirk. :)

yallerjacket2

05-04-2010, 05:47 AM

:rofl:

Did I sleep for an entire season?? Dirk won a championship?

He led them there. Obviously, Mr Stern decided Mr Wade would make a better champion though. But yes, he showed he could lead them to a title.

SLC93

05-04-2010, 07:15 AM

1. I expect Dallas will keep Dirk and Haywood.
2. I think there is a good chance Gooden comes back.
3. I think Damp comes back after the trade.
4. I don't know who we'll give up if we trade for a crazy good guy.
5. Tim Thomas will probably be back as a backup.
6. I want more burn for Roddy.
7. I prefer Butler at the 3 and Marion as a backup.

1. Agree
2. Agree
3. Agree ... but do you think that he and Haywood got along well? I think if Damp has his mind right and RC stops with the mind games, he could excel in a 12 -15 minute a night role. I think there are some grey areas to clarify here for the 5 spot to work as well as it could have and shoud have.
4. Agree. The more I look at it the more I think it won't be a free agent pickup. Dallas is going to relieve someone who is struggling financially and/or rebuilding of a huge contract. If that is the case I think the outgoing talent will be greatly reduced. A team being instatly relieved of a 40-60 million dollar contract goes along way decreasing their leverage. I could see small pieces like JJB and TT being used.
5. I'd love to see it due to his versatility. He can back up all 3 frontline positions, even if he's the 3 guy at each slot. That is invaluable. In a perfect world, though, I think he'll be one of the minor inclusions in a major move.
6. Roddy has to be the first guard of the bench and playing 25 per wevery night. That's if you acquire an Iggy type for the 2. If not, I'd start him at 2 and move Caron to the 3. Though he's not going anywhere, easily anyway, I don't think this will have been a successful offseason unless Terry ends up as your 4th guard with a 15 minute role.
7. Agreed. Butler is most comfortable at the 3 and most productive. I like the idea of Marion being the primary b/u at 3 and/or 4 spots.

SLC93

05-04-2010, 07:33 AM

You're kidding right? Hard to argue with a homer. There guy is always the best.

If you cant beat...say you did and run off I guess.

Dallas will never win a championship built around Dirk. I have history on my side. You have....well nothing to be honest...just your love for the Mavs and Dirk. :)

I'm done not because I have a need to win. I'm done because nobody ever wins a cyber agrument, regardless of how right or wrong one side may be. I have zero issue with the facts as I've presented them. I'm done because, honestly, you're boring me and I'd like to discuss the remainder of the playoffs and the upcoming offseason.

More difficult to argue with the blind and ignorant.

Blind to the fact that by being the anti homer to my alleged homer, you're tha same as the very thing you mock with disdain.

Ignorant to the history of this league and where Dirk's production puts him. You can hate him all you want. I have no qualms with that. There are star players that I do not care for but what I do not do is deny their numbers. You allow emotion to blind you to statistical fact. I do not. I don't care for Kobe but he's an undeniable talent that ranks amongst the best ever. Can't stand Carmelo but he's an absolute force. I would never argue the talent and rank of those players though I personally wouldn't piss on either of them if they were on fire. Dirk is a 27 & 12 guy in his last 3 playoffs and 26 & 11 for his career. Those are numbers that a literal handful of players have ever attained. His place as a franchise guy and #1 are not open for debate.

What history? Because they haven't yet you're the almighty. Where is your anectodal evidence, the evidence to the prove the hypothesis. Where has this repeated before that allows you to point and say it is so? It doesn't exist. You get to say what you want because you can. That's all and because there is built in odds rate of 30-1 against it happening, you get to look good for being right? Way to stick your neck out. To be clear I never claimed Dallas would win a title with Dirk. To say they can't is absurd and you know it. You simply cannot help yourself. You're only role within this thread is to serve as the antagonist because it's all you have to offer.

I love the NBA. I love basketball. I follow and pull for several teams. My experience is not limited to the Mavs. They are my team and I am a loyal fan but they are not the be all end all and they are flawed. Often they come up short and break my heart. They remain my team, though. My defense of Dirk has more to do with arguing against ignorance than a devotion to a player. Dirk is flawed, too. He's frustrated the hell out of me in moments. That doesn't change the fact that he's a once in a generation type of talent. That he revolutionized the game with his skill set and size is a fact. Look to the Euro leagues and the recent NBA drafts as evidence. Teams are searching for the next Dirk level talent. You cannot relate because you have no true passion, no rooted interest and you have no appreciateion for the scope of history, as it applies to this game.

BlakeJ

05-04-2010, 08:16 AM

He led them there. Obviously, Mr Stern decided Mr Wade would make a better champion though. But yes, he showed he could lead them to a title.

Wow...just wow. Is there ANY excuse left out there for Dirk?? You guys are very forgiving in Dallas...I mean heck...yuo still think Tony "The Botch" Romo is a top tier QB. :eek:

yallerjacket2

05-04-2010, 08:17 AM

Wow...just wow. Is there ANY excuse left out there for Dirk?? You guys are very forgiving in Dallas...I mean heck...yuo still think Tony "The Botch" Romo is a top tier QB. :eek:

I gotta admit....you are very entertaining. :notworthy

BlakeJ

05-04-2010, 08:30 AM

I'm done not because I have a need to win. I'm done because nobody ever wins a cyber agrument, regardless of how right or wrong one side may be. I have zero issue with the facts as I've presented them. I'm done because, honestly, you're boring me and I'd like to discuss the remainder of the playoffs and the upcoming offseason.

More difficult to argue with the blind and ignorant.

Blind to the fact that by being the anti homer to my alleged homer, you're tha same as the very thing you mock with disdain.

Ignorant to the history of this league and where Dirk's production puts him. You can hate him all you want. I have no qualms with that. There are star players that I do not care for but what I do not do is deny their numbers. You allow emotion to blind you to statistical fact. I do not. I don't care for Kobe but he's an undeniable talent that ranks amongst the best ever. Can't stand Carmelo but he's an absolute force. I would never argue the talent and rank of those players though I personally wouldn't piss on either of them if they were on fire. Dirk is a 27 & 12 guy in his last 3 playoffs and 26 & 11 for his career. Those are numbers that a literal handful of players have ever attained. His place as a franchise guy and #1 are not open for debate.

What history? Because they haven't yet you're the almighty. Where is your anectodal evidence, the evidence to the prove the hypothesis. Where has this repeated before that allows you to point and say it is so? It doesn't exist. You get to say what you want because you can. That's all and because there is built in odds rate of 30-1 against it happening, you get to look good for being right? Way to stick your neck out. To be clear I never claimed Dallas would win a title with Dirk. To say they can't is absurd and you know it. You simply cannot help yourself. You're only role within this thread is to serve as the antagonist because it's all you have to offer.

I love the NBA. I love basketball. I follow and pull for several teams. My experience is not limited to the Mavs. They are my team and I am a loyal fan but they are not the be all end all and they are flawed. Often they come up short and break my heart. They remain my team, though. My defense of Dirk has more to do with arguing against ignorance than a devotion to a player. Dirk is flawed, too. He's frustrated the hell out of me in moments. That doesn't change the fact that he's a once in a generation type of talent. That he revolutionized the game with his skill set and size is a fact. Look to the Euro leagues and the recent NBA drafts as evidence. Teams are searching for the next Dirk level talent. You cannot relate because you have no true passion, no rooted interest and you have no appreciateion for the scope of history, as it applies to this game.

But not a quarter as much as you love the Mavs and Dirk and thats the problem. You have all year overrated the team and Dirk when the evidence is right in front of you.

YOU (Mavericks fan): Mavs have the best team theyve had this year...WCF team for sure....might be able to push out the Lakers.

ME: Dont think so....to soft...no heart...no leadership. 2nd round at best.

OUTCOME: We all know what happened.

From day one of our discussions your homerisms have gotten in the way of our debates. Do you think it's a coincidence that you're judge of the Mavs and Mavs players has been for the most part wrong and mine right...especially considering your a Mavs fan and I'm not?? I mean seriously...

Mavs WCF team in 2010
Mavs elite WC team for a decade
Jason Kidd being the difference maker on this team
How good this team really is
Expectations

All those things weve discussed and every single one of those you've overrated or given a little to much credit to the home team and ended up wrong. Do you see the pattern??

Remember Ive said I dont hate the Mavs...they're not my team, but I like them alot more than most any other WC team...probably because they are harmless to my team. If Dallas were to win a championship (not through LA)...I wouldnt mind at all...wouldnt bother me a bit. Matter of fact I was cheering them on against Miami (Shaq) years ago. The difference between your view and mine?? Mine isnt skewed. I have no inside interest. It's easier for me to see flaws in Dirk and the Mavs than it is for you. But I guess that comes with the territory. It's like telling Jane Doe her kid is a brat...she aint hearing it.

You're right...this discussion has run its course. :)

BlakeJ

05-04-2010, 08:32 AM

I gotta admit....you are very entertaining. :notworthy

Oh no...you guys are entertaining me. :D

SLC93

05-04-2010, 08:43 AM

But not a quarter as much as you love the Mavs and Dirk and thats the problem.

You have no grounds to make that call and certainly no basis to to assign a percentage. It's yet another example of a generic and baseless claim/statement. You simple do not posses the knowledge to make these assertions.

Mavs WCF team in 2010 - not a minority opinion, just one you didn't agree with
Mavs elite WC team for a decade - not a minority opinion, just one you didn't agree with, if it makes you feel any better replace team with franchise.
Jason Kidd being the difference maker on this team - if you dont believe this, remove him from the team and see how it would have gone, he had a poor series while battling the flu,
How good this team really is - they fell short and played poorly, there is no denying that and I havent but, again, not a minority opinion, just one you didn't agree with,
Expectations - this is just a silly one, every fan has expectations, every team except one will fail to satisfy,

You're right...this discussion has run its course. :)

It has an apparently you're now intent on getting the last word. I would only ask that you not twist the words to better fit your agenda. Whether you believe or not, my responses have been far less emotional than yours.

SLC93

05-04-2010, 08:45 AM

Oh no...you guys are entertaining me. :D

A trained parrot with an ornery disposition is all you require for entertainment. That or a monkey that can sign a differing opinion.

BlakeJ

05-04-2010, 12:31 PM

A trained parrot with an ornery disposition is all you require for entertainment. That or a monkey that can sign a differing opinion.

Your admittance of being owned in this thread has been noted. Have a great day homer. :)

lonny23

05-04-2010, 01:15 PM

1. Agree
2. Agree
3. Agree ... but do you think that he and Haywood got along well? I think if Damp has his mind right and RC stops with the mind games, he could excel in a 12 -15 minute a night role. I think there are some grey areas to clarify here for the 5 spot to work as well as it could have and shoud have.
4. Agree. The more I look at it the more I think it won't be a free agent pickup. Dallas is going to relieve someone who is struggling financially and/or rebuilding of a huge contract. If that is the case I think the outgoing talent will be greatly reduced. A team being instatly relieved of a 40-60 million dollar contract goes along way decreasing their leverage. I could see small pieces like JJB and TT being used.
5. I'd love to see it due to his versatility. He can back up all 3 frontline positions, even if he's the 3 guy at each slot. That is invaluable. In a perfect world, though, I think he'll be one of the minor inclusions in a major move.
6. Roddy has to be the first guard of the bench and playing 25 per wevery night. That's if you acquire an Iggy type for the 2. If not, I'd start him at 2 and move Caron to the 3. Though he's not going anywhere, easily anyway, I don't think this will have been a successful offseason unless Terry ends up as your 4th guard with a 15 minute role.
7. Agreed. Butler is most comfortable at the 3 and most productive. I like the idea of Marion being the primary b/u at 3 and/or 4 spots.Haywood is going to have to play harder to beat out Damp. Damp might act aloof, but he has pride and when you push him, he plays harder and usually keeps his job.

Terry needs a reduced role if he stays.

I think there is a better chance of Dallas getting somebody off of a team cutting costs than getting a big free agent. That might not get a title, but it gets the Mavs closer.

Thomas left the team to take care of his sick wife and I think he'll come back to the Mavs because of it. If he plays, it will be in Dallas.

lonny23

05-04-2010, 01:30 PM

But not a quarter as much as you love the Mavs and Dirk and thats the problem. You have all year overrated the team and Dirk when the evidence is right in front of you.

YOU (Mavericks fan): Mavs have the best team theyve had this year...WCF team for sure....might be able to push out the Lakers.

ME: Dont think so....to soft...no heart...no leadership. 2nd round at best.

OUTCOME: We all know what happened.

From day one of our discussions your homerisms have gotten in the way of our debates. Do you think it's a coincidence that you're judge of the Mavs and Mavs players has been for the most part wrong and mine right...especially considering your a Mavs fan and I'm not?? I mean seriously...

Mavs WCF team in 2010
Mavs elite WC team for a decade
Jason Kidd being the difference maker on this team
How good this team really is
Expectations

All those things weve discussed and every single one of those you've overrated or given a little to much credit to the home team and ended up wrong. Do you see the pattern??

Remember Ive said I dont hate the Mavs...they're not my team, but I like them alot more than most any other WC team...probably because they are harmless to my team. If Dallas were to win a championship (not through LA)...I wouldnt mind at all...wouldnt bother me a bit. Matter of fact I was cheering them on against Miami (Shaq) years ago. The difference between your view and mine?? Mine isnt skewed. I have no inside interest. It's easier for me to see flaws in Dirk and the Mavs than it is for you. But I guess that comes with the territory. It's like telling Jane Doe her kid is a brat...she aint hearing it.

You're right...this discussion has run its course. :)I'll sum up where you're wrong and not getting any credit from the Mavs fans:
1. You're just repeating what a bunch of other people say, so nothing you're saying is original thought. That alone makes us say you don't know what you're talking about.
2. People jump to conclusions and stick with them regardless of the facts presented. I have to hear all the time from people who understand a few things about b-ball that Dampier is garbage. I know from years of watching him that he has his flaws, but he has always had a role on the Mavs and makes them a better team. I also know Dallas never can get anybody to take his spot. He's not great, but he's far from garbage.
3. Like SLC said, you have a 29 out of 30 chance of being right and are taking the chalk argument of it hasn't happened before, so it will never happen and those aren't bad odds, but they can be wrong.
4. Like the boys said, stick your neck out a little. I used to always do high school firing threads and I'll admit that it's easy for me or anybody to fire a bunch of the teams and it's just as easy to not fire most of the great teams. What always made my threads different than what you say about basketball is there were numerous 8-2 to 10-0 teams each year that I would fire and a few 6-4 teams each year that I wouldn't fire and almost every year one of the 6-4 or 7-3 teams would make it to the Semis or Title Game.

To sum it up, you're getting feedback because you're not bringing an original argument. You're just repeating another lazy person's argument. If you want points around here, how about you tell us what the Mavs can do to be better. It's easy to tell us the Mavs stink, but it's a lot harder to make things better. As much grief as I've given the Spurs over the years, a few times I've said things that would make them better.

lonny23

05-04-2010, 01:51 PM

Your admittance of being owned in this thread has been noted. Have a great day homer. :)
You haven't come close to owning this thread. SLC's average responses are a lot deeper than your responses. I know he reads Dallasbasketball.com like me.

When I post something about Dallas it's because I've already done the research and know the stats. It's because I've already thought about the salary cap situation and how it pertains to the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

I threw out Iguadola's name because I looked at every NBA team's salary situation and saw who I felt was the best talent with a high salary on a team that might be willing to cut costs since they're already losing. I'm not going to give you a crazy situation where the Lakers will trade Kobe to Dallas. Teams don't trade elite #1 options for other elite #1 options very often because nothing is accomplished. That's why Dirk for Bosh trades are garbage. Dallas doesn't want to trade for Dirk's production. They want to augment it. Dirk for Bosh trades only happen when both players are causing problems on their current team.

The people who do get traded are the guys who make a lot of money, but aren't #1 options. Highly paid #2's get traded a lot more than #1's. Dallas has traded for #2's and usually #3's for a decade. I mean they've gotten plenty of guys who were #1 or #2 on their team, but they've never traded for guys who were/could be a #1 on an elite team. You have to look at it this way. If you can't get the guy(s) you want, you still have to get as good as you can and hope for a little luck and that's what Cuban has always done. If Dirk wasn't a #1, Cuban would've traded him a long time ago. AI #9 is not a #1 on an elite team, but he is a very good player who would fill a need in Dallas. I'm not convinced that Bosh is a #1 on an elite team. Like it was said before, Dallas would not have won 50 games a year for 10 years if Dirk wasn't a #1. He's the glue that helps them keep winning.

If the Mavs trade for a top free agent, they're going to have to weigh trading current players for the extra production vs. what they have to give up for a lesser player with fewer talent leaving the Mavs. Dallas has been able to make trades for years that can win regular season games, but they've never had the resources to trade for players who will help win more playoff games. I thought they might've done that this year, but the new guys didn't produce like we expected and some of the old guys fell short. Dallas has made a habit of getting guys towards the end or 1-2 years after their prime, but that was the best they could do and that's why Dallas has stabilized their wins, but not always gotten better. Dallas has their best playoff years when they don't change coaches or make huge trades, but they'd get worse if they just stood pat.

BlakeJ

05-04-2010, 02:25 PM

You have to read Dallasbasketball.com to know anything about the NBA?? You're joking right? How about I don't read that and tell you this........

Homer! ;)

Dallas is still Dallas and Dirk is still Dirk. You aint getting past the second round unless someone else messes up.

and

ASSISTS!!!!!!!!

The most overrated stat used in the game of basketball. 90% of assists are made of one player passing another player the rock and watching them do all the work. I understand that some assists are amazing or great plays...but seriously stop using the assists references. Jason Kidd used to be great...now he's not even an all star. It took him injuries by Kobe, Paul, and Roy to get in and at that he got a total of 6 minutes. The least by any player on both squads.

Does Jason Kidd play hard?? Yes. Is Jason Kidd better than most at his age yes. But that doesnt calculate into what you are making him sound like.

Invaluable in the post season?? Come talk to me in a month or two when Dallas is once again watching the finals at home. Jason Kidd doesnt decide games...regualr season or playoffs...sorry. :)

While Mr. Homer reads Dallasbasketball.com and says..............

This is the trade Dallas has been looking for since the Lakers stole Gasol. Neither Butler or Haywood is as talented individually as Gasol but they represent a pair of talents coming back, Dallas gave up no draft picks, Dallas gave up no young talent, they gained another trade exception and Dallas received cash from Washington instead of the other way around. Given all of that you can easily say Dallas fleeced Washington far worse than LA did Memphis.

As for how this translates to the floor? Simply stated, it's a grand slam. Dallas was able to upgrade their two biggest weaknesses in the starting unit and strengthen their bench, all in the same move. Butler is everything
Howard was when Howard was on and more. He's far tougher, both physically and emotionally. He'll take over at the 2 guard and slide to small forward when Dallas goes small. You're going to love him. Haywood is a like clock work. He's gives you a double double every night, will block 2-3 shots and can run the floor. Dallas will finally have a legit center who can do everything. Plus, he's about 4 years younger than Damp with no history of injury, other than a fluke thing with his wrist last season. As a result of their additions, our second unit now features Terry and Damp. Off the bench, I love those two. Let's not forget that Stevenson offers some good things, too. He's 28, 6'5 and very athletic, When he's on he offers some things we have traditionally lacked in the backcourt. He won't garner alot of minutes but I can see him making situational impacts for sure.

Dallas may not be done yet, either. The hold 3 trade exceptions that basically allow you to take a player off a teams hands and return nothing, provided their salary is within 100,000 of the exception value. Look for them to make a move for another power forward/center type before Thursday.
Nothing big but a good body to use in a pinch.

What does this mean? If Dallas can mesh and stay healthy for the remainder of the season, it almost guarantees a place in the conference finals. It also means that LA will be pushed and is beatable. None of those things could be said prior to this trade.

Cuban and Nelson have taken alot of grief in recent years, some of it deserved. You really have to tip your cap to them this year, though. They turned Stackhouse, Devan George, Antoine Wright, James Singleton, Quinton Ross, Drew Gooden and Josh Howard into Shawn Marion, Caron Butler and Brendan Haywood. That is amazing. A bunch of journeyman trash and an always injured/moody Howard for 3 players of all star caliber between 29-31 years old.

Lastly, if you're into the summer of 2010 free agency, Dallas was able to hold onto Dampier's huge, expiring contract, young Roddy and acquire better talent to possibly use in a move. Should the opportunity arise they are much better equipped to pull a trade for a James, Wade, Bosh, Johnson type.

I'm beyond excited.

I listen to Colin every day and love his show. That said he's very casual on fact and allows his often under informed opinion to spill all over his show, from time to time. Guess you both missed the 14 point/10 assist/7.5 rebound average he's sporting during the streak. Did you not catch the 7 steals against Phoenix when he played the "great" Nash off the court? Ask Kobe if Kidd's 14/13 were impactful or not? Orlando would probably like those 4 steals back, too.

This is the thing. Old has nothing to do with it. It's the easiest stereotype Kidd detractors can throw out there, The guy is a bull. He's missed 2 games in 6 years while he been becoming too old.

Slow? Kidd has slowed down but considering he was once among the fastest in the league that is all relative. He's got plenty of speed. It's his quickness that has suffered but nobody plays the passing lines or anticipates like Kidd does. Additionally, now that he has a shot blocker behind him. life is easier for all the Mavs perimeter guys. Folks like to bash him when Paul or Williams or Rose get off but wanna know a little secret? Those guys get off on everyone. Furthermore, who cares what their box score is if Dallas notches the w?

You're smarter than this. Don't be one of those guys that dont get it. Kidd can win a game for you without scoring a point. Players of that type are rare and nearly nonexistent within the current generation. Get back to me in 10 days when Dallas has a stranglehold on the 2 seed in the west and is priming for a title run.

Go back and read it all. While you all were celebrating your trip to the 2010 Western Conference Finals in between your .com reading, I was reminding you all that you still arent going anywhere without an elite #1.

In the end...I looked brilliant while you guys looked like...HOMERS! SLC93 is head HOMER around here....and thats fine. The irritating part is when you get a homer who "knows more about the sport and his team" than you. It always makes a little more fun when they're back pedaling like a bad centerfielder in the end...but yeah you're right...I dont know a lick about the topic at hand while SLC93 is very well informed. I just happened to get lucky on all accounts here with a little help from the lord above and the NBA referees. :yes:

BlakeJ

05-04-2010, 02:38 PM

I'll sum up where you're wrong and not getting any credit from the Mavs fans:
1. You're just repeating what a bunch of other people say, so nothing you're saying is original thought. That alone makes us say you don't know what you're talking about.
2. People jump to conclusions and stick with them regardless of the facts presented. I have to hear all the time from people who understand a few things about b-ball that Dampier is garbage. I know from years of watching him that he has his flaws, but he has always had a role on the Mavs and makes them a better team. I also know Dallas never can get anybody to take his spot. He's not great, but he's far from garbage.
3. Like SLC said, you have a 29 out of 30 chance of being right and are taking the chalk argument of it hasn't happened before, so it will never happen and those aren't bad odds, but they can be wrong.
4. Like the boys said, stick your neck out a little. I used to always do high school firing threads and I'll admit that it's easy for me or anybody to fire a bunch of the teams and it's just as easy to not fire most of the great teams. What always made my threads different than what you say about basketball is there were numerous 8-2 to 10-0 teams each year that I would fire and a few 6-4 teams each year that I wouldn't fire and almost every year one of the 6-4 or 7-3 teams would make it to the Semis or Title Game.

To sum it up, you're getting feedback because you're not bringing an original argument. You're just repeating another lazy person's argument. If you want points around here, how about you tell us what the Mavs can do to be better. It's easy to tell us the Mavs stink, but it's a lot harder to make things better. As much grief as I've given the Spurs over the years, a few times I've said things that would make them better.

Dear Lonny,

While you, SLC93, SI, ESON, etc...were telling us how Dallas was making a run to the WCF's....I was telling you that I don't think they are tough enough...don't have leadership and aren't making it past the 2nd round. Could you please explain to me how that's repeating anyone?? Seems like I was kind of on an island by myself there.

The latter part of the bolded reminds me that you probably are only reading half of my posts. I've stated numerous times how I think the Mavs could be better. Since you skipped over...I'll reiterate just for you buddy.

1) Stop building your team around Dirk Nowitzki. Dallas aint winning no championship with Dirk as the center piece. Dirk isnt tough enough and doesnt have the personality to lead an NBA championship caliber team.

2) Give up on the Kidd trade. The window has closed there. If you want to keep him thats fine, but at this point in time he can't be your best back court player.

3) You need a game breaker...a player with killer instincts. Dwayne Wade is the name that comes to mind this season. Add him, give him the reigns...you're back in the finals and have to be the favorite.

4) Tell Cuban to shut up. He's only hurting your chances. Cuban has to take a back seat during games and in the press. Everyone hates your owner and it's killing your team.

Thats off the top of my head...I could probably muster up more, but it's pointless the know all Mav fans will tell me Im wrong and biased no matter what the scoreboard and history says. :rolleyes:

SLC93

05-04-2010, 02:43 PM

Haywood is going to have to play harder to beat out Damp. Damp might act aloof, but he has pride and when you push him, he plays harder and usually keeps his job.

Terry needs a reduced role if he stays.

I think there is a better chance of Dallas getting somebody off of a team cutting costs than getting a big free agent. That might not get a title, but it gets the Mavs closer.

Thomas left the team to take care of his sick wife and I think he'll come back to the Mavs because of it. If he plays, it will be in Dallas.

- Thats always been the knock on Haywood is the consistency of his effort. I was a little bothered by his expressed need to be the starter in order to perform.

- Terry's not done but he is just so streaky and with his deficiencies on defense and handling the ball we're reaching a point of diminishing returns. With Roddy simmering on the bench waiting for an opportunity, Terry 7 Barrea's minutes are the first to go.

- If Dallas secures another star player via staight trade and can keep Caron 7 Roddy, things will get really interesting. Gotta make the most of the exceptions, too, though. OKC will be a year better. Portland can't be that hurt every year, right? Memphis is improving, though if they lose Gay they'll fall off considerably. NO is about to get a new owner that isn't a tight wad. They'll be looking to bounce back. All of that and we haven't uttered a word about the big boys yet.

- I sincerely hope Thomas is back and playing for Dallas. His sacrifice this year and the way he handled it said alot about him. He's still got game, especially in a limited role. I just think is we need a few more expiring pieces this summer you're staring at him and JJB as trade fodder to push something through.

SLC93

05-04-2010, 02:52 PM

2. People jump to conclusions and stick with them regardless of the facts presented. I have to hear all the time from people who understand a few things about b-ball that Dampier is garbage. I know from years of watching him that he has his flaws, but he has always had a role on the Mavs and makes them a better team. I also know Dallas never can get anybody to take his spot. He's not great, but he's far from garbage.
.

Dampier's only real issue was the contract he received when the trade went down. If he was on almost any other level of deal, the scrutiny wouldn't have been as white hot. Problem is people don't understand the dynamic of the NBA. You ALWAYS overpay for big men and, when they're not one of your draftees, there is no exception. Players only fractionally as good as Damp have received 30,40, 50 million dollar deals. Additional to this fact, he was the premier big man available coming off a caeer year. The contract was not his fault.

I wish he had better hands and anything resembling a post game but he doesn't. What he does is defend well beyond what is advertised, set a vicious screen and board. Aside from James Donaldson's one year, he's been the best 5 in franchise history, like him or lump him.

Now he's an amazing chip and has expressed desire to be back as soon as he's released. He's vested here and want to see it through. I admire that, especially given the sheet he's put up with from all of us at one point or another.

SLC93

05-04-2010, 03:07 PM

The people who do get traded are the guys who make a lot of money, but aren't #1 options. Highly paid #2's get traded a lot more than #1's. Dallas has traded for #2's and usually #3's for a decade. I mean they've gotten plenty of guys who were #1 or #2 on their team, but they've never traded for guys who were/could be a #1 on an elite team. You have to look at it this way. If you can't get the guy(s) you want, you still have to get as good as you can and hope for a little luck and that's what Cuban has always done. If Dirk wasn't a #1, Cuban would've traded him a long time ago. AI #9 is not a #1 on an elite team, but he is a very good player who would fill a need in Dallas. I'm not convinced that Bosh is a #1 on an elite team. Like it was said before, Dallas would not have won 50 games a year for 10 years if Dirk wasn't a #1. He's the glue that helps them keep winning.

If the Mavs trade for a top free agent, they're going to have to weigh trading current players for the extra production vs. what they have to give up for a lesser player with fewer talent leaving the Mavs. Dallas has been able to make trades for years that can win regular season games, but they've never had the resources to trade for players who will help win more playoff games. I thought they might've done that this year, but the new guys didn't produce like we expected and some of the old guys fell short. Dallas has made a habit of getting guys towards the end or 1-2 years after their prime, but that was the best they could do and that's why Dallas has stabilized their wins, but not always gotten better. Dallas has their best playoff years when they don't change coaches or make huge trades, but they'd get worse if they just stood pat.

For better or worse, Dallas has been relentless in the churning of their roster trying to get it right. The results have often been mixed or short of our desired results but I do give them credit for 2 things. First, they are always trying and that is huge as a member of the fanbase. Second, what they do better than anyone is trade their stuff for better stuff, thus increasing their chips for future moves. The Howard trade was a great example of this. They traded one piece for two pieces. Now maybe those pieces work here. Maybe they dont. The point is a 7ft big man who can give you 10/10 is a tradeable asset. A player like Butler and his 10.5 million expiring deal is a chip. They upgraded on the court and in the bank. Follow the timeline of their moves and the contracts they have at any given moment and you'll see that they try to set things so there is at least one moveable piece of size a year. For a team that is always over the cap, that is beyond huge.

This is what we desperately have to change with the Damp contract. If you can get a star level player who is just entering his prime, pair him with an ascending Roddy, continue some youthful moves with the exceptions then this roster of veterans just may flourish.

SLC93

05-04-2010, 03:25 PM

Dallas is still Dallas and Dirk is still Dirk. You aint getting past the second round unless someone else messes up.

Congratulations on you're wizardly prediction that in a conference full of nothing but 50 win teams, Dallas may not be the last one standing. You are, in fact, genius.

Jason Kidd doesnt decide games...regualr season or playoffs...sorry

Congratulations on concluding that a man that has taken teams to consecutive finals appearances, as their best player, is not a difference make. I further exalt you for correctly predicting that a 10/9/6 guy would have the flu during the first round of the series. You are ,in fact, genius.

What does this mean? If Dallas can mesh and stay healthy for the remainder of the season, it almost guarantees a place in the conference finals. It also means that LA will be pushed and is beatable. None of those things could be said prior to this trade.

Congratualations for your ability to ignore words such as if, almost, pushed and beatable. All of these words are decisive in their meaning and illustrate my perception of a Mavs domianted world. You are, in fact. genius.

Get back to me in 10 days when Dallas has a stranglehold on the 2 seed in the west and is priming for a title run.

Congratualtions on your ability to illustrate that I was only 50% correct in predicting the future. You are, in fact, genius.

:notworthy

Matthew 2000 Eagle

05-04-2010, 03:29 PM

For better or worse, Dallas has been relentless in the churning of their roster trying to get it right. The results have often been mixed or short of our desired results but I do give them credit for 2 things. First, they are always trying and that is huge as a member of the fanbase. Second, what they do better than anyone is trade their stuff for better stuff, thus increasing their chips for future moves. The Howard trade was a great example of this. They traded one piece for two pieces. Now maybe those pieces work here. Maybe they dont. The point is a 7ft big man who can give you 10/10 is a tradeable asset. A player like Butler and his 10.5 million expiring deal is a chip. They upgraded on the court and in the bank. Follow the timeline of their moves and the contracts they have at any given moment and you'll see that they try to set things so there is at least one moveable piece of size a year. For a team that is always over the cap, that is beyond huge.

This is what we desperately have to change with the Damp contract. If you can get a star level player who is just entering his prime, pair him with an ascending Roddy, continue some youthful moves with the exceptions then this roster of veterans just may flourish.

It's Dirk's fault! So what if his career playoff averages are top 5 all time? He still sucks, and so does Romo. I mean, so what if he led the NFC in passing yards, with a 63.1 completion percentage, with ONLY 9 interceptions while playing behind a line that has been suspect in pass blocking for the last 3 years? He still sucks!

BlakeJ

05-04-2010, 03:55 PM

It's Dirk's fault! So what if his career playoff averages are top 5 all time? He still sucks, and so does Romo. I mean, so what if he led the NFC in passing yards, with a 63.1 completion percentage, with ONLY 9 interceptions while playing behind a line that has been suspect in pass blocking for the last 3 years? He still sucks!

Its guys like you and SLC93 that make early playoff exits "OK" in Dallas. Low expectations from the fans make players better than they are I guess.

Matt atleast you recognized SA as a viable foe while alot of the rest were searching for their WCF tickets.

BlakeJ

05-04-2010, 03:56 PM

SLC93 = The excuse guy

yallerjacket2

05-04-2010, 03:58 PM

It's Dirk's fault! So what if his career playoff averages are top 5 all time? He still sucks, and so does Romo. I mean, so what if he led the NFC in passing yards, with a 63.1 completion percentage, with ONLY 9 interceptions while playing behind a line that has been suspect in pass blocking for the last 3 years? He still sucks!

Anybody who plays in Dallas sucks! If Dwayne Wade comes to Dallas, he will also immediately start sucking.

Trojanalum693

05-04-2010, 04:25 PM

Anybody who plays in Dallas sucks! If Dwayne Wade comes to Dallas, he will also immediately start sucking.

No he won't! No way Dwayne Wade sucks if he comes to Dallas. Quit hating on the Mavs just because they got beat in the first round.

If Wade/James/Bosch/or Stoudemire come here they will bring a championship to Dallas. With Dirk's help of course.

BlakeJ

05-04-2010, 04:44 PM

yallerjacket2

05-04-2010, 05:33 PM

Matthew 2000 Eagle

05-05-2010, 08:24 AM

Its guys like you and SLC93 that make early playoff exits "OK" in Dallas. Low expectations from the fans make players better than they are I guess.

Matt atleast you recognized SA as a viable foe while alot of the rest were searching for their WCF tickets.

Uhh, sir, it's not okay! But, I do call them like I see them.

Matthew 2000 Eagle

05-05-2010, 08:25 AM

SLC93

05-05-2010, 09:52 AM

Anybody who plays in Dallas sucks! If Dwayne Wade comes to Dallas, he will also immediately start sucking.

:heli::D

SLC93

05-05-2010, 09:57 AM

No he won't! No way Dwayne Wade sucks if he comes to Dallas. Quit hating on the Mavs just because they got beat in the first round.

If Wade/James/Bosch/or Stoudemire come here they will bring a championship to Dallas. With Dirk's help of course.

Except Amare I would agree with that. Never been an Amare fan. His offense is literally all he brings. He's the worst rebounding power forward among the "star" level 4's and if you think Dirk plays no D watch an Amare tape. Put those two on the same front line and things get beyond ugly in a flash, imo.

SLC93

05-05-2010, 10:02 AM

Uhh, sir, it's not okay! But, I do call them like I see them.

He's the king of assumption and word manipulation. Of course, with all the time he has on his hands not being a real fan of anything, who could blame him?

Totally not ok and back to the drawing board. SA in the last 18 months had displayed no ability to dominate Dallas the way they did. Contrary to the belief of a few, that was a fairly educated guess taking Dallas. Hats off to Pop and the crew. Big game tonight, though. I don't think they can afford to leave Arizona without a win.

Did you know SA and Phoenix have met in 10 of the last 19 postseasons? SA has never lost to them.

SLC93

05-05-2010, 10:03 AM

Sir, we were being sarcastic when we said that.:laugh

Maybe a little, eh?;)

Trojanalum693

05-05-2010, 10:40 AM

Sorry. I forgot this in my previous post: :rolleyes:

My bad I thought that you were being serious.

Matthew 2000 Eagle

05-05-2010, 10:47 AM

Matthew 2000 Eagle

05-05-2010, 10:48 AM

Maybe a little, eh?;)

;)

Matthew 2000 Eagle

05-05-2010, 10:48 AM

My bad I thought that you were being serious.

Work on that sarcasm meter bro!:)

SLC93

05-05-2010, 11:37 AM

Actually, Phoenix has beaten San Antonio in the postseason, but it's only happened ONCE! The year the Suns lost to Michael and the Bulls in the Finals, they beat the Spurs on the way their. Since then though, San Antonio has dominated against them.

Forgot the during the Nash years part. Oops.:D They've actally got a few series on them.

BlakeJ

05-05-2010, 12:31 PM

He's the king of assumption and word manipulation. Of course, with all the time he has on his hands not being a real fan of anything, who could blame him?

Totally not ok and back to the drawing board. SA in the last 18 months had displayed no ability to dominate Dallas the way they did. Contrary to the belief of a few, that was a fairly educated guess taking Dallas. Hats off to Pop and the crew. Big game tonight, though. I don't think they can afford to leave Arizona without a win.

Did you know SA and Phoenix have met in 10 of the last 19 postseasons? SA has never lost to them.

Did I assume that Dallas was going to be an early round exit, or being a fan did I notice that Dallas lacked toughness and leadership that all the other teams possess??

SLC93...look..I know the loss hurts. The fact that you were dead wrong once again about this team and I hit the nail on the head hurt even worse. If anything, I showed the ability to be an all around fan by noticing the ineficiencies of my own team and set realistic expectations for them while you were to busy overrating your team as usual and it biting you in the behind in the end.

I'd love for Mr. Homer to explain how Im not a "real" fan of anything.

Am I not a "real" fan of the NBA because I was aware of Dallas's weak spots and knew it would hurt them in a 7 games series against a tough team with plenty of leadership or am I not a "real" fan because I simply schooled you when assessing your own team?

Let me guess...Im not a "real" fan because I dont expect my team to advance to the Finals again this year.

If that's the case...you be a "real" fan and I'll be a "realistic" fan. ;)

Keep digging that hole Mr. Homer.

Trojanalum693

05-05-2010, 12:48 PM

Work on that sarcasm meter bro!:)

Normally I am good at telling sarcasm. This time i thought he was being serious.

BlakeJ

05-06-2010, 07:27 AM

Didn't figure Mr. Homer was interested in explaining why he's a real fan and I'm not.

End of thread. :yes:

SLC93

05-06-2010, 09:50 AM

Didn't figure Mr. Homer was interested in explaining why he's a real fan and I'm not.

End of thread. :yes:

Desperation noted.

It's still 2010, no? This thread will cover the draft, free agency and summer league play for Dallas.

BlakeJ

05-06-2010, 10:21 AM

Desperation noted.

It's still 2010, no? This thread will cover the draft, free agency and summer league play for Dallas.

What does that have to do with you being a real fan and me not?? It's easy to say something like that...alot harder to give an explanation.

Like say if someone were to say Dallas is a lock for the WCF in the middle of the regular season. Thats easy to say isn't it??

SLC93

05-06-2010, 11:40 AM

What does that have to do with you being a real fan and me not?? It's easy to say something like that...alot harder to give an explanation.

Like say if someone were to say Dallas is a lock for the WCF in the middle of the regular season. Thats easy to say isn't it??

What part of I'm done isn't permeating you're skull? Even given it's relative thickness, by now, you should have clued in.

In a nutshell, you had to be absolutely prodded to divulge who you even care for, You have maybe 5 posts totaling about 30 words in the playoff thread. You have not once spoken or commented about "your team" during the course of these playoffs. Your only substantial work, as it applies to this year's NBA playoffs, is to go into a thread of a team you do not care and do nothing but bash them and their fans. Within this thread you contribute only generic thought and twist people's words to serve your purpose. You're a passive aggressive, frontrunner. Clear enough?

The middle of the season would be, roughly, before the trade dealine. At no point did I ever say the Mavs were a lock. Not then or any other time. I said IF they were healthy and IF they gelled they had a really good shot.
You're refusal to acknowledge context shines the brightest light on your intentions.

For the record, a sample of your genius from the playoff thread:

"That series is over. OKC in 7.

SA in 6 "

As best I can tell that puts you at the same 50% success rate as me. Get over yourself. and, -ps-, way to bail on "your" team.:rolleyes:

slcdragonfan

05-06-2010, 11:45 AM

BlakeJ

05-06-2010, 11:52 AM

What part of I'm done isn't permeating you're skull? Even given it's relative thickness, by now, you should have clued in.

In a nutshell, you had to be absolutely prodded to divulge who you even care for, You have maybe 5 posts totaling about 30 words in the playoff thread. You have not once spoken or commented about "your team" during the course of these playoffs. Your only substantial work, as it applies to this year's NBA playoffs, is to go into a thread of a team you do not care and do nothing but bash them and their fans. Within this thread you contribute only generic thought and twist people's words to serve your purpose. You're a passive aggressive, frontrunner. Clear enough?

The middle of the season would be, roughly, before the trade dealine. At no point did I ever say the Mavs were a lock. Not then or any other time. I said IF they were healthy and IF they gelled they had a really good shot.
You're refusal to acknowledge context shines the brightest light on your intentions.

For the record, a sample of your genius from the playoff thread:

"That series is over. OKC in 7.

SA in 6 "

As best I can tell that puts you at the same 50% success rate as me. Get over yourself. and, -ps-, way to bail on "your" team.:rolleyes:

I never said I was a homer. Im a realistic fan to each and every one of my teams. I know that the 49ers arent winning the super bowl this year. That doesnt mean im bailing on them. The OKC/LA series at the time looked to be headed in that direction with OKC losing by minimal points in LA and handing LA their butts in OKC. Would it piss me off if LA lost...yes...but at the same time I can be realistic in my expectations and be a fan at the same time. You got upset because my assessment of your team was realistic and not in aggreeance of your WCF expectations. you remember how this all started right??

I made comments about the last Dallas/LA game in which I gave Dirk some props but simply stated Jason Kidd looked slow and a former shell of himself. That hurt yours and Matt's feelings and you instantly got defensive like I was attacking your team. I was giving props to both teams while telling you all some negatives of each as well.

Learn how to handle outside opinion and some of these convos will probably go alot more smoothly. I dont get all butt hurt when someone tells me no chance in hell that SF is winning the division.

BlakeJ

05-06-2010, 11:53 AM

I suspected he was just trying to get even for the spanking Maxtor has given in the TOD thread, and your name includes 'SLC' in it. :)

Maxtor didnt give out spankings....the computer models did.

lonny23

05-06-2010, 01:08 PM

Dear Lonny,

While you, SLC93, SI, ESON, etc...were telling us how Dallas was making a run to the WCF's....I was telling you that I don't think they are tough enough...don't have leadership and aren't making it past the 2nd round. Could you please explain to me how that's repeating anyone?? Seems like I was kind of on an island by myself there.

The latter part of the bolded reminds me that you probably are only reading half of my posts. I've stated numerous times how I think the Mavs could be better. Since you skipped over...I'll reiterate just for you buddy.

1) Stop building your team around Dirk Nowitzki. Dallas aint winning no championship with Dirk as the center piece. Dirk isnt tough enough and doesnt have the personality to lead an NBA championship caliber team.

2) Give up on the Kidd trade. The window has closed there. If you want to keep him thats fine, but at this point in time he can't be your best back court player.

3) You need a game breaker...a player with killer instincts. Dwayne Wade is the name that comes to mind this season. Add him, give him the reigns...you're back in the finals and have to be the favorite.

4) Tell Cuban to shut up. He's only hurting your chances. Cuban has to take a back seat during games and in the press. Everyone hates your owner and it's killing your team.

Thats off the top of my head...I could probably muster up more, but it's pointless the know all Mav fans will tell me Im wrong and biased no matter what the scoreboard and history says. :rolleyes:
1. You're wrong on the Dirk one. I know you've said that and that's why I said you were just listening to others.
2. Kidd is not a bad player and he's still got something left to give. He's not what he once was, but I'll agree you want somebody better in the backcourt at the 2. Kidd is better suited to be the 3rd best player these days and will move down the ladder over time. You didn't see the Kidd in the playoffs that was on display this year. Some of it was due to sickness and I'll tip my hat to the Spurs playing a part, but don't think for a minute that he's done. Kidd is still better than some of the players we've overrated.
3. No matter what these guys do in the regular season, we have to re-assess how we view Terry, Marion, and Butler because they appear to not be what they once were, but they're still better than the other options besides maybe Beaubois who we can't find out what he can do enough because of Carlisle.
4. I'm 100% about a gamebreaker. I've often wanted Dallas to have one. Dallas doesn't have enough guys who can create their own shot.
5. Cuban has done a lot to shut up over time. You can just look at his fine history and see most of it was 8 or more years ago.

lonny23

05-06-2010, 01:13 PM

For better or worse, Dallas has been relentless in the churning of their roster trying to get it right. The results have often been mixed or short of our desired results but I do give them credit for 2 things. First, they are always trying and that is huge as a member of the fanbase. Second, what they do better than anyone is trade their stuff for better stuff, thus increasing their chips for future moves. The Howard trade was a great example of this. They traded one piece for two pieces. Now maybe those pieces work here. Maybe they dont. The point is a 7ft big man who can give you 10/10 is a tradeable asset. A player like Butler and his 10.5 million expiring deal is a chip. They upgraded on the court and in the bank. Follow the timeline of their moves and the contracts they have at any given moment and you'll see that they try to set things so there is at least one moveable piece of size a year. For a team that is always over the cap, that is beyond huge.

This is what we desperately have to change with the Damp contract. If you can get a star level player who is just entering his prime, pair him with an ascending Roddy, continue some youthful moves with the exceptions then this roster of veterans just may flourish.
Dallas is the only elite team in NBA history who was built through trades and kept up through trades. I give them credit for that. It's lot easier when you can pick anything in the store for free (High draft pick) or have money to buy anything (Free agency).

lonny23

05-06-2010, 01:19 PM

Except Amare I would agree with that. Never been an Amare fan. His offense is literally all he brings. He's the worst rebounding power forward among the "star" level 4's and if you think Dirk plays no D watch an Amare tape. Put those two on the same front line and things get beyond ugly in a flash, imo.
Dirk plays without other All-stars most years and wins over 50 a year.

Amare is not a leader over Dirk. Nash leads that team and they still don't win 50 a year.

D-Wade can't even win more than 45 games in the East without Riley, Shaq, and hired hands.

Bosh doesn't even make the playoffs most years and he sure enough isn't a better leader.

None of the three are a better leader than Dirk. Wade can score more and all three have more athletic ability, but Amare and Bosh don't even produce across the board at a Dirk level (Close, though).

lonny23

05-06-2010, 01:21 PM

lonny23

05-06-2010, 01:25 PM

Did I assume that Dallas was going to be an early round exit, or being a fan did I notice that Dallas lacked toughness and leadership that all the other teams possess??

SLC93...look..I know the loss hurts. The fact that you were dead wrong once again about this team and I hit the nail on the head hurt even worse. If anything, I showed the ability to be an all around fan by noticing the ineficiencies of my own team and set realistic expectations for them while you were to busy overrating your team as usual and it biting you in the behind in the end.

I'd love for Mr. Homer to explain how Im not a "real" fan of anything.

Am I not a "real" fan of the NBA because I was aware of Dallas's weak spots and knew it would hurt them in a 7 games series against a tough team with plenty of leadership or am I not a "real" fan because I simply schooled you when assessing your own team?

Let me guess...Im not a "real" fan because I dont expect my team to advance to the Finals again this year.

If that's the case...you be a "real" fan and I'll be a "realistic" fan. ;)

Keep digging that hole Mr. Homer.I think you need to learn what toughness is. You probably think all the stuff that KG does show toughness. Mean faces and screaming don't make toughness. Tim Duncan and Dirk mop KG's floor when it comes to toughness and they don't act like a fool like he does.

SLC93

05-06-2010, 02:05 PM

I never said I was a homer. Im a realistic fan to each and every one of my teams.

Nor did I. You labeled me as one. I'm quite realistic. I never said the were a lock for anything. I never said they would beat the Lakers. All I said, if you'd be objective, was that they had a real shot if a few things broke right. I din't have them in the Finals just like I didn't have the Boys in the Super Bowl.

Would it piss me off if LA lost...yes...but at the same time I can be realistic in my expectations and be a fan at the same time.

As can I. This is where much of the disconnect happens. You're assuming I'm sitting at the keyboard in a Mavs jersey eating Rolando blackman shaped cookies. Simply not the case. I was over the SA series by the weekend. Disappointed, for certain, but over it. Why do you get to claim to be such things but the rest of us simply do not qualify?

You got upset because my assessment of your team was realistic and not in aggreeance of your WCF expectations. you remember how this all started right??

You're certainly entitled to your opinion. Contrary to what you believe, your thoughts on the subject have never been the issue. It's not like Mavs fans haven't heard the same notions through the years. Some of what you say is even grounded in merit. I never denied that. I took issue with your tone & general vagueness. I also think you have a bad habit of misrepresenting people's actual words to better serve your own purpose.

I made comments about the last Dallas/LA game in which I gave Dirk some props but simply stated Jason Kidd looked slow and a former shell of himself. That hurt yours and Matt's feelings and you instantly got defensive like I was attacking your team. I was giving props to both teams while telling you all some negatives of each as well.

Not as simple as that and you know it. Your comments weren't of a conversational nature alone. If they were we would have had a good basketball discussion, much like the ones I've had with other team's fans, including the Spurs. Kidd has lost several steps. It would be ridiculous to argue otherwise. He cannot keep up with the quicks of the elite pg's anymore. What he does well, most nights, is play the passing lanes. He's still the best rebounding pg in the league and better than most sg's and 9 assists per is nothing sneeze at. He is what he always has been except now he's a great spot up shooter from 3 and he's no longer anywhere near an elite on ball defender.

Learn how to handle outside opinion and some of these convos will probably go alot more smoothly. I dont get all butt hurt when someone tells me no chance in hell that SF is winning the division.

I'm good and was for nearly the entirity of our dialouge. I'm not the one baiting, starting stupid threads and following the other into other threads. That being the case, who is giving who the maturity lesson.

And, for the record, if those rookies on the OL step right in and excel .... SF could be a darkhorse.

SLC93

05-06-2010, 02:10 PM

Dallas is the only elite team in NBA history who was built through trades and kept up through trades. I give them credit for that. It's lot easier when you can pick anything in the store for free (High draft pick) or have money to buy anything (Free agency).

Or win the lotto twice when elite centers are available? Hello, SA? Hello, Houston?;):D

SLC93

05-06-2010, 02:12 PM

Dirk plays without other All-stars most years and wins over 50 a year.

Amare is not a leader over Dirk. Nash leads that team and they still don't win 50 a year.

D-Wade can't even win more than 45 games in the East without Riley, Shaq, and hired hands.

Bosh doesn't even make the playoffs most years and he sure enough isn't a better leader.

None of the three are a better leader than Dirk. Wade can score more and all three have more athletic ability, but Amare and Bosh don't even produce across the board at a Dirk level (Close, though).

Totally agree. I was commenting more on who could come here and help put Dallas in the Finals. I think Amare does nothing for us. Bosch and wade on the other hand...

SLC93

05-06-2010, 02:13 PM

SA lost to Phoenix in 2000. Duncan was hurt.

Yeah, i forgot to type the "in the Nash years" part.:D

SLC93

05-06-2010, 02:32 PM

http://espn.go.com/blog/DallasMavericks/post/_/id/4668967/dirks-all-nba-streak-hits-a-decade

Made the All NBA team for 10 straight season. He's still hoping to be a franchise player one day.:D

BlakeJ

05-12-2010, 09:20 AM

My NBA playoff projections.......

East

Cleveland over Chicago
Boston over Miami
Atlanta over Milwaukee
Orlando over Charlotte

Boston over Cleveland
Orlando over Atlanta

Orlando over Boston

West

Lakers over Oklahoma City
Utah over Denver
Phoenix over Portland
Dallas over San Antonio

Utah over LA
Phoenix over Dallas

Utah over Phoenix

Finals

Orlando over Utah
---------------------

Place your bets guys...these predictions are good as RED....I mean Gold. :D

Bump. :D

RED = Good
GREEN = Bad

Im not an NBA fan...and really know nothing. ;)

Fleeman93

05-12-2010, 11:21 AM

SLC93

05-12-2010, 12:06 PM

Hold on one sec and let me see if I have this straight. San Antonio spanked that Dallas team, Phoenix spanked the piss out of San Antonio, but some of you Dallas "fans" think Dallas would have even competed with Phoenix?

If Dallas were to get the same performance from everyone not named Dirk against Phoenix, no they wouldn't have competed and it would have been a 5 game series, at best.

On paper the matchup with Phoenix, going into the playoffs, would be one Dallas would like. Even with their improved defense they are still not going to grind and scheme on you like SA and the uptempo they prefer would allow Dallas run, too. Dallas in the half court game has alot of trouble, as Dirk is the only one that can get his shot whenever he wants/ half court also negates any chance of Kidd having a profound impact, at this point in his career.

Of course with the Suns playing like they are it might not matter, anyway. They've really kicked it into another gear in the last 30 days. Going in you really had to think LA, Dallas and Utah were the real players in the west. Dallas went funk and Utah turned into a MASH unit.

I know some have their reservations but this is LA's series. Phoenix will win a few because of Nash and the exploitation he's about to do to Fisher but LA is bigger and stronger and more talented. I'm not comfortable picking Gentry over Jackson, either. Finally, they have the home court. If it were to go 7, look up LA's record in game 7s at home.

BlakeJ

05-12-2010, 01:19 PM

If Dallas were to get the same performance from everyone not named Dirk against Phoenix, no they wouldn't have competed and it would have been a 5 game series, at best.

On paper the matchup with Phoenix, going into the playoffs, would be one Dallas would like. Even with their improved defense they are still not going to grind and scheme on you like SA and the uptempo they prefer would allow Dallas run, too. Dallas in the half court game has alot of trouble, as Dirk is the only one that can get his shot whenever he wants/ half court also negates any chance of Kidd having a profound impact, at this point in his career.

Of course with the Suns playing like they are it might not matter, anyway. They've really kicked it into another gear in the last 30 days. Going in you really had to think LA, Dallas and Utah were the real players in the west. Dallas went funk and Utah turned into a MASH unit.

I know some have their reservations but this is LA's series. Phoenix will win a few because of Nash and the exploitation he's about to do to Fisher but LA is bigger and stronger and more talented. I'm not comfortable picking Gentry over Jackson, either. Finally, they have the home court. If it were to go 7, look up LA's record in game 7s at home.

Damn...that sucks.

SLC93 picks my Lakers.

You can almost certainly chalk up Phoenix in the NBA finals. :mad:

Matthew 2000 Eagle

05-12-2010, 04:09 PM

Damn...that sucks.

SLC93 picks my Lakers.

You can almost certainly chalk up Phoenix in the NBA finals. :mad:

Until proven otherwise, the Lakers are the defending champs, and should be favorites again.

Not backing out on my prediction of them repeating.

BlakeJ

05-12-2010, 08:37 PM

http://espn.go.com/blog/DallasMavericks/post/_/id/4668967/dirks-all-nba-streak-hits-a-decade

Made the All NBA team for 10 straight season. He's still hoping to be a franchise player one day.:D

Missed this one, but reminded me of a discussion by Tim Legler and Jalen Rose had on Mike and Mike couple days ago. If they could redraft all NBA players right now..who would they pick....Dirk was down the list anyhow....I remember some of the players not all.

Kobe
Gasol
LeBron
Wade
Carmelo
Durant
Paul Pierce
Rondo
Dwight Howard
Steve Nash
Deron
Derrick Rose
Chris Paul

Anyhow...they were saying exactly what I was saying...Dirk isnt in that class of elite guys and Dallas really needs to step up this coming FA period and cash in on an elite NBA guy if they want to win a championship.

Glad you posted that...almost forgot.

hunterbunter

05-12-2010, 08:57 PM

Dallas needs Dwayne Wade

lonny23

05-13-2010, 03:31 AM

Missed this one, but reminded me of a discussion by Tim Legler and Jalen Rose had on Mike and Mike couple days ago. If they could redraft all NBA players right now..who would they pick....Dirk was down the list anyhow....I remember some of the players not all.

Kobe
Gasol
LeBron
Wade
Carmelo
Durant
Paul Pierce
Rondo
Dwight Howard
Steve Nash
Deron
Derrick Rose
Chris Paul

Anyhow...they were saying exactly what I was saying...Dirk isnt in that class of elite guys and Dallas really needs to step up this coming FA period and cash in on an elite NBA guy if they want to win a championship.

Glad you posted that...almost forgot.These discussions about who to draft also contain the arbitrary thought of how much future production does a guy have and most of the time aren't a case of who do you want RIGHT NOW? Saying that, here was Bill Simmons' list this year and there is no way they'd take Pau over Dirk for now or the future. It would be crazy to take Pierce, too.

My contention is that Dirk has a mentality much like Duncan of not trying to dominate the ball and all the attention, but Duncan has had more reliable guys around him over the years. I like the mentality and not what Wade and LeBron do. LeBron will never win a title like he is now and Wade won't do it either and was given a title.

Dirk being All-NBA for 10 straight years and his sustained level of excellence don't get near the credit level they should. I attribute that mostly to two boneheaded ideas of the media and fans:

1. There is still a decent to strong level of racism in basketball against white guys and especially those who don't do magic with the ball or play a power game.
2. I had a white guy tell me about 10 days ago that he didn't like the NBA much because the best white guys come from Europe. There is a foreigner bias among media and fans, too and he's not the only person to say or think that.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100208/two

SLC93

05-13-2010, 06:54 AM

Missed this one, but reminded me of a discussion by Tim Legler and Jalen Rose had on Mike and Mike couple days ago. If they could redraft all NBA players right now..who would they pick....Dirk was down the list anyhow....I remember some of the players not all.

Kobe
Gasol
LeBron
Wade
Carmelo
Durant
Paul Pierce
Rondo
Dwight Howard
Steve Nash
Deron
Derrick Rose
Chris Paul

Anyhow...they were saying exactly what I was saying...Dirk isnt in that class of elite guys and Dallas really needs to step up this coming FA period and cash in on an elite NBA guy if they want to win a championship.

Glad you posted that...almost forgot.

Wouldn't want you to forget to take another shot at the guy. I just don't know where to begin here so forgive me if this is a little jumbled.

To start, let's go with the list that two analyists spit out, of the top of their heads, on live radio. That would be the prudent thing to do. For the record, I like Legleer alot and Jalen is great.

Also, I could counter that even noted Dirk haters such as Cowherd and Wilbon, have placed Dirk in the top 10 in the game during talks this week.

You also have to look at the list of players you provided. It includes 5 point guards. You want to know why? When the league changed the hand checking rules a few years back, think Nash's first year in Phoenix, the point guard position officially became the most important and by a laaaarge margin. There is a reason, other than enormous talent, that all of those guys produce like they do. You cannot touch them. If you were redrafting all players in the league, as it is currently constructed, you'd be a fool not to take the elite pg's immediately.

The bottomline is, like it or not, for 10 consecutive years Dirk has been voted as a top 15 player in this league by a large panel, not 2 guys doing live radio. 4 of those years he was top 5 and the majority he was top 10. He is elite and a first ballot HOF player.

Dallas does need to capitalize this offseason. They need to get a second superstar type in here to play with Dirk. They always have needed that, just like every team in the last 30 years has, with the exception of the 2004 Pistons. You win in this league with 2 superstar players and a star player, 3 guys and a decent roster will get you there far more times than not. Ask Lebron how it's working out for him, being elite without the roster around him. MVP, finals loss, best regular season records, premature playoff elimination .... sound familiar? And his roster, top to bottom, is better than Dirk's.

Matthew 2000 Eagle

05-13-2010, 09:19 AM

These discussions about who to draft also contain the arbitrary thought of how much future production does a guy have and most of the time aren't a case of who do you want RIGHT NOW? Saying that, here was Bill Simmons' list this year and there is no way they'd take Pau over Dirk for now or the future. It would be crazy to take Pierce, too.

My contention is that Dirk has a mentality much like Duncan of not trying to dominate the ball and all the attention, but Duncan has had more reliable guys around him over the years. I like the mentality and not what Wade and LeBron do. LeBron will never win a title like he is now and Wade won't do it either and was given a title.

Dirk being All-NBA for 10 straight years and his sustained level of excellence don't get near the credit level they should. I attribute that mostly to two boneheaded ideas of the media and fans:

1. There is still a decent to strong level of racism in basketball against white guys and especially those who don't do magic with the ball or play a power game.
2. I had a white guy tell me about 10 days ago that he didn't like the NBA much because the best white guys come from Europe. There is a foreigner bias among media and fans, too and he's not the only person to say or think that.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/100208/two

Lonny, I don't say this much but, you're spot on. Not only that but, Wade also knows that he won't win another ring with the guys around him. He also needs another guy with him in Miami or, he'll need to leave and team up with someone else or, a more reliable team.

If he does leave Miami and he doesn't end up in Chicago or Dallas, don't be surprised if he ends up in San Antonio.

Matthew 2000 Eagle

05-13-2010, 09:21 AM

Dallas needs Dwayne Wade

If they don't want Dirk to opt out and leave, then yes, Cuban BETTER get him in here.

Matthew 2000 Eagle

05-13-2010, 09:22 AM

The bottomline is, like it or not, for 10 consecutive years Dirk has been voted as a top 15 player in this league by a large panel, not 2 guys doing live radio. 4 of those years he was top 5 and the majority he was top 10. He is elite and a first ballot HOF player.

Dallas does need to capitalize this offseason. They need to get a second superstar type in here to play with Dirk. They always have needed that, just like every team in the last 30 years has, with the exception of the 2004 Pistons. You win in this league with 2 superstar players and a star player, 3 guys and a decent roster will get you there far more times than not. Ask Lebron how it's working out for him, being elite without the roster around him. MVP, finals loss, best regular season records, premature playoff elimination .... sound familiar? And his roster, top to bottom, is better than Dirk's.

:notworthy

BlakeJ

05-13-2010, 12:02 PM

Wouldn't want you to forget to take another shot at the guy. I just don't know where to begin here so forgive me if this is a little jumbled.

To start, let's go with the list that two analyists spit out, of the top of their heads, on live radio. That would be the prudent thing to do. For the record, I like Legleer alot and Jalen is great.

Also, I could counter that even noted Dirk haters such as Cowherd and Wilbon, have placed Dirk in the top 10 in the game during talks this week.

You also have to look at the list of players you provided. It includes 5 point guards. You want to know why? When the league changed the hand checking rules a few years back, think Nash's first year in Phoenix, the point guard position officially became the most important and by a laaaarge margin. There is a reason, other than enormous talent, that all of those guys produce like they do. You cannot touch them. If you were redrafting all players in the league, as it is currently constructed, you'd be a fool not to take the elite pg's immediately.

The bottomline is, like it or not, for 10 consecutive years Dirk has been voted as a top 15 player in this league by a large panel, not 2 guys doing live radio. 4 of those years he was top 5 and the majority he was top 10. He is elite and a first ballot HOF player.

Dallas does need to capitalize this offseason. They need to get a second superstar type in here to play with Dirk. They always have needed that, just like every team in the last 30 years has, with the exception of the 2004 Pistons. You win in this league with 2 superstar players and a star player, 3 guys and a decent roster will get you there far more times than not. Ask Lebron how it's working out for him, being elite without the roster around him. MVP, finals loss, best regular season records, premature playoff elimination .... sound familiar? And his roster, top to bottom, is better than Dirk's.

He can be a 72 time all NBA guy, but that doesnt change the fact that any team he's been on where he is the #1 guy hasnt won an NBA championship and probably never will.

Face it...Dirk's a legit #2 who needs a #1 to get that ring. Case closed.

lonny23

05-13-2010, 01:12 PM

Lonny, I don't say this much but, you're spot on. Not only that but, Wade also knows that he won't win another ring with the guys around him. He also needs another guy with him in Miami or, he'll need to leave and team up with someone else or, a more reliable team.

If he does leave Miami and he doesn't end up in Chicago or Dallas, don't be surprised if he ends up in San Antonio.
Not having a title is shortchanging Dirk a lot in the view of those around America and it's a shame. We're so focused on winning and praising those who do win and blaming those who lose that we totally forget who really did what and didn't do what. I think the world of Duncan, but I'm also honest enough to admit that he has titles in years where he wasn't even the best Spur in the playoffs. Here are the combined points, rebounds, assists, steals, and block stats for Dirk and Duncan for the last 8 playoff years and Duncan has 3 titles in that time:

02-03 Dirk (3 rounds) 41.18, Duncan (4 rounds) 49.32
03-04 Dirk (1 round) 43.80, Duncan (2 rounds) 39.40
04-05 Dirk (2 rounds) 41.67, Duncan (4 rounds) 41.31
05-06 Dirk (4 rounds) 43.30, Duncan (2 rounds) 42.37
06-07 Dirk (1 round) 36.46, Duncan (4 rounds) 40.75
07-08 Dirk (1 round) 44.40, Duncan (3 rounds) 40.94
08-09 Dirk (2 rounds) 41.70, Duncan (1 round) 32.80
09-10 Dirk (1 round) 39.40, Duncan (2 rounds) 34.00

Average Dirk 41.49, Duncan 40.11 (On the strength of 02-03).

Dirk had better stats than Duncan in 6 of the 8 years. Don't get me wrong, I know Tim played a vital role in team defense and Dirk grew on D over the years, but my point is Tim gets loads of credit for titles when his stats weren't as good as Dirk's were.

lonny23

05-13-2010, 01:21 PM

He can be a 72 time all NBA guy, but that doesnt change the fact that any team he's been on where he is the #1 guy hasnt won an NBA championship and probably never will.

Face it...Dirk's a legit #2 who needs a #1 to get that ring. Case closed.
That's exactly why you don't know nearly as much as you think you do.

LeBron is a better player than Dirk ever has been and he doesn't have a clue how to win a title because he tries to do it all himself and his teammates stand around watching him dribble for 20 seconds on every possession.

Wade won't ever win a legit title the way he plays now. He was given a title in 06, but all these other years where he can't even win 50 games or in the playoffs show how good he is doing things by himself. He's LeBron 2.0.

Kobe wins more than those guys because he's a smarter player, but he still has always had to have a very good big man to even win a playoff round.

Dirk wins 50 games a year and has done it for 10 straight years without a teammate who could drive to the hole with consistency. That's a testament to how good Dirk really is. He got out of Round 1 in 6 of those 10 years. Even Duncan has had Parker and Manu for 3 of the 4 titles and Dirk has never had players like Manu and Parker who could score easy baskets like you need in the playoffs.

BlakeJ

05-13-2010, 02:15 PM

That's exactly why you don't know nearly as much as you think you do.

LeBron is a better player than Dirk ever has been and he doesn't have a clue how to win a title because he tries to do it all himself and his teammates stand around watching him dribble for 20 seconds on every possession.

Wade won't ever win a legit title the way he plays now. He was given a title in 06, but all these other years where he can't even win 50 games or in the playoffs show how good he is doing things by himself. He's LeBron 2.0.

Kobe wins more than those guys because he's a smarter player, but he still has always had to have a very good big man to even win a playoff round.

Dirk wins 50 games a year and has done it for 10 straight years without a teammate who could drive to the hole with consistency. That's a testament to how good Dirk really is. He got out of Round 1 in 6 of those 10 years. Even Duncan has had Parker and Manu for 3 of the 4 titles and Dirk has never had players like Manu and Parker who could score easy baskets like you need in the playoffs.

Actually it turns out that Im looking like a genuis compared to you and your buddy SLC93.

Shall we pull up your analysis of how the playoffs will go down??

Boston doesnt stand a chance against Cleveland
Dallas easy over SA. Phoenix cant beat Dallas. Dallas in the WCF's
Utah not good enough on the road to take out Denver.

Look I get it. Im arguing with Dallas fans. Homers at that. You guys have shown the inability to see past the blue jerseys from the beginning. Like I said...it's obviously alot easier for me to see Dirk's inabilities than it is you. Kind of like telling a lady her baby is ugly.

And I still laugh at you guys for withdrawing on this team. 9 weeks ago, this team was good enough to win an NBA championship...but now that they have lost...Dirk is still said to not have good enough teammates to win a title by you homers.

And finally....................

Only in Dallas is it "good enough" to get out of the first round of the NBA playoffs. That in itself tells the story.

If first round playoffs is the goal....Dirk is your guy. If NBA championship is the goal...move over Dirk and let a legit #1 take over. Until then...keep counting your first round wins. LOL

Easy work.

SLC93

05-13-2010, 06:03 PM

He can be a 72 time all NBA guy, but that doesnt change the fact that any team he's been on where he is the #1 guy hasnt won an NBA championship and probably never will.

Face it...Dirk's a legit #2 who needs a #1 to get that ring. Case closed.

So basically if you name isn't Duncan, O'neal, Bryant, Pippen, Jordan, Olajuwan, Thomas, Johnson, Worthy, Jabbar, Bird, McHale or Erving you're not a true number one.

Gotcha. For the last 30 years there have only been 13 real #1's in the NBA.

And 1st ballot Hall of Famers that go for 25/10 in the playoffs are not elite

Easy work.

BlakeJ

05-13-2010, 09:10 PM

Matthew 2000 Eagle

05-14-2010, 09:03 AM

Not having a title is shortchanging Dirk a lot in the view of those around America and it's a shame. We're so focused on winning and praising those who do win and blaming those who lose that we totally forget who really did what and didn't do what. I think the world of Duncan, but I'm also honest enough to admit that he has titles in years where he wasn't even the best Spur in the playoffs. Here are the combined points, rebounds, assists, steals, and block stats for Dirk and Duncan for the last 8 playoff years and Duncan has 3 titles in that time:

02-03 Dirk (3 rounds) 41.18, Duncan (4 rounds) 49.32
03-04 Dirk (1 round) 43.80, Duncan (2 rounds) 39.40
04-05 Dirk (2 rounds) 41.67, Duncan (4 rounds) 41.31
05-06 Dirk (4 rounds) 43.30, Duncan (2 rounds) 42.37
06-07 Dirk (1 round) 36.46, Duncan (4 rounds) 40.75
07-08 Dirk (1 round) 44.40, Duncan (3 rounds) 40.94
08-09 Dirk (2 rounds) 41.70, Duncan (1 round) 32.80
09-10 Dirk (1 round) 39.40, Duncan (2 rounds) 34.00

Average Dirk 41.49, Duncan 40.11 (On the strength of 02-03).

Dirk had better stats than Duncan in 6 of the 8 years. Don't get me wrong, I know Tim played a vital role in team defense and Dirk grew on D over the years, but my point is Tim gets loads of credit for titles when his stats weren't as good as Dirk's were.

I've noted many times that I'm a fan of Duncan as well but, once again, I agree with you.

When San Antonio has won championships and teams worked to take Duncan out of the situation, Parker, Ginobili, Horry, and a few others came thru for him because, they were a "TEAM".

It is what it is.

Maroondog

05-14-2010, 09:09 AM

Mavs suck because they play no defense and they are an overall soft team. Get some D and a thug or two and they'll get over the hump.

BlakeJ

05-14-2010, 09:16 AM

mavs suck because they play no defense and they are an overall soft team. get some d and a thug or two and they'll get over the hump.

blasphemy!

BlakeJ

05-14-2010, 09:38 AM

It would suprise me a lot if his picks are right and here's why:

Neither Utah or Denver are very good on the road and because of that, I don't see Utah beating Denver.

Since Denver doesn't win on the road, I don't see them beating the Lakers. To me, the Lakers have the easy road to the WCF.

Phoenix is a lot better at home than on the road. They're playing the best road team in the NBA. Dallas takes them out in Round 2.

I'll have to see how the Lakers play in the next month before I really think pro or con about Dallas beating them.

I sure don't see Boston beating the Cavs. The C's don't have it in them.

:D

I think the East is gonna go chalk, really. Unless Boston is completely healthy and firing in all phases they cannot pass Cleveland. Cleveland's deeper, much bigger, younger in the right spots and has Lebron. That would be a significant upset, to me, regardless of seeding or recent history.

I think the first round in the west in easy, although I do think OKC will push LA and there is a chance Denver/Phoenix gets interesting. After that, it's a toss up. I think Dallas is in the conference finals, though. Too deep for Phoenix. Plus we have the personnel to run with them or slow it down and kill them in the half court. It'll go 6 or 7 but Dallas wins. I can easily see Utah there,too. They'll need Boozer to be right though. hopefully that oblique strain is nothing that will cost him time. I don't doubt the Lakers talent but they have been in an extended funk. Let's see if they can flip a switch. Deron Williams is a beast. I think this is the year that pg play costs the Lakers.

In your guy's own words......

I dont even know where to start with this. This is just a tidbit of what the GREAT basketball mind duo have put here. These two guys claim to be fans first and "in the know" of basketball while I...(just a guy who didn't think Dallas or Cleveland was tough enough or savvy enough to make a run) was a know nothing troll who obviously isnt a fan of the game and didnt know anything of about the NBA or basketball.

So tell me Lonny and SLC93...how did 2 well informed NBA gurus who clearly arent homers but basketball fans first get owned this postseason by a guy who doesnt know jack about the NBA, Dallas, or basketball in general? If I had to guess, I'd say in your eyes...im just a blowhard who got pretty darn lucky...over and over again...lol.

I'll be waiting for the answer....probably until next season when Dallas is once again favored to be in the WCF.

Atleast there was one reasonable Mavs fan around...while you guys didn't even make mention of Dallas's first round opponent...this guy was scared of SA.

I won't bet against your predictions because, it very well could end that way. Wouldn't surprise me one bit, if it turned out like this.

Maroondog

05-14-2010, 09:41 AM

blasphemy!

You know its true. :D

SLC93

05-17-2010, 06:37 AM

You can't argue with homers. Especially ones that really dont know much about what you're talking about.

Found your WCF tickets for this Mavs team??

You knw..the best Mavs team so far. The one with a difference making point gaurd who can win games for you in the passing lanes. The one that will gut the Spurs. The one who made the trade that made them a WCF lock?

Face it SLC93....your baby is ugly. I can see that...but of course you cant...and even if you could...you wouldnt admit it.

Ever the jackazz .... to the end. Nobody was discussing the season or the Mavs, just continuing to debunk your views on Nowitiski.

Still not retaining information, eh? Let me recap, one more time, for the special needs kids. Kidd excells in the passing lanes, Nobody ever used the term gut, nor did anyone proclaim lock and I have readily admitted the team underperformed and has flaws.

Your obsession and tween girl like need for attention are noted.

SLC93

05-17-2010, 06:59 AM

In your guy's own words......

I dont even know where to start with this. This is just a tidbit of what the GREAT basketball mind duo have put here. These two guys claim to be fans first and "in the know" of basketball while I...(just a guy who didn't think Dallas or Cleveland was tough enough or savvy enough to make a run) was a know nothing troll who obviously isnt a fan of the game and didnt know anything of about the NBA or basketball.

So tell me Lonny and SLC93...how did 2 well informed NBA gurus who clearly arent homers but basketball fans first get owned this postseason by a guy who doesnt know jack about the NBA, Dallas, or basketball in general? If I had to guess, I'd say in your eyes...im just a blowhard who got pretty darn lucky...over and over again...lol.

I'll be waiting for the answer....probably until next season when Dallas is once again favored to be in the WCF.

Atleast there was one reasonable Mavs fan around...while you guys didn't even make mention of Dallas's first round opponent...this guy was scared of SA.

Pathetic. To begin, where does you even get this nonsense? Are you this starved for attention? Really? Completely unprovoked you dig up some old posts to start an arguement with. Whoever said we were geniuses? Whoevere called you a blowhard or said you don't know jack? You absolutely do troll this thread and there is no way to deny that but .... wow. You need help.

As for what you dug up on me?

"I think the East is gonna go chalk, really. Unless Boston is completely healthy and firing in all phases they cannot pass Cleveland. Cleveland's deeper, much bigger, younger in the right spots and has Lebron. That would be a significant upset, to me, regardless of seeding or recent history."

Why should I be embarrased about this again? Boston was 25-25 over it's last 50. They were just not healthy. Guess what? They got healthy and found their rhythm, which is exactly what I said had to happen for them. Turns out they were pacing themselved more than we even knew, which you can do when you play in the East. I liked Boston over Cleveland but they had to be healthy. The rest of the East did go chalk.

"I think the first round in the west in easy, although I do think OKC will push LA and there is a chance Denver/Phoenix gets interesting. After that, it's a toss up. I think Dallas is in the conference finals, though. Too deep for Phoenix. Plus we have the personnel to run with them or slow it down and kill them in the half court. It'll go 6 or 7 but Dallas wins. I can easily see Utah there,too. They'll need Boozer to be right though. hopefully that oblique strain is nothing that will cost him time. I don't doubt the Lakers talent but they have been in an extended funk. Let's see if they can flip a switch. Deron Williams is a beast. I think this is the year that pg play costs the Lakers."

Again, nothing here to be ashamed of. The west is full of 50+ win teams. Nobody ever thought Karl was acually the glue that held those guys together because he's been there for years and Denver had always melted down. Most of the free world believed Billups was the man for Denver and that he had the knuckleheads on lock. I said all year Denver was too shallow and with Nene out and Kmart wrecked they didn't have the bodies. Nobody could have foreseen the injuries actually occuring or Karl being sidelined with cancer. Sorry my crystal ball was cracked.

Utah was decimated by injury but played the best of anyone in the west from January on. No issue there.

Flatly stated LA was in a funk and they were. Flatly said I loved their talent and still do. Said they;d have to flip a switch. They have, see OKC after game 4.

Deron Williams is a beast.

PG play can still cost the Lakers with Nash in front of them and Nelson or Rondo after that.

Matt2000 is the man.

You're better than this juvenile attempt at provocation and banter. Let it go. At the very least make a salient point. If this proves to be an impossibility for you then please understand this. One day you'll be all grown. You'll have a wife and a son. You own a house. Your weekends will involve airplanes and not penny pitcher or quarter shots. It's at that point you'll realize ...............

SLC93

05-17-2010, 07:00 AM

Mavs suck because they play no defense and they are an overall soft team. Get some D and a thug or two and they'll get over the hump.

Thug it up!:D

Matthew 2000 Eagle

05-17-2010, 09:34 AM

Pathetic. To begin, where does you even get this nonsense? Are you this starved for attention? Really? Completely unprovoked you dig up some old posts to start an arguement with. Whoever said we were geniuses? Whoevere called you a blowhard or said you don't know jack? You absolutely do troll this thread and there is no way to deny that but .... wow. You need help.

As for what you dug up on me?

"I think the East is gonna go chalk, really. Unless Boston is completely healthy and firing in all phases they cannot pass Cleveland. Cleveland's deeper, much bigger, younger in the right spots and has Lebron. That would be a significant upset, to me, regardless of seeding or recent history."

Why should I be embarrased about this again? Boston was 25-25 over it's last 50. They were just not healthy. Guess what? They got healthy and found their rhythm, which is exactly what I said had to happen for them. Turns out they were pacing themselved more than we even knew, which you can do when you play in the East. I liked Boston over Cleveland but they had to be healthy. The rest of the East did go chalk.

"I think the first round in the west in easy, although I do think OKC will push LA and there is a chance Denver/Phoenix gets interesting. After that, it's a toss up. I think Dallas is in the conference finals, though. Too deep for Phoenix. Plus we have the personnel to run with them or slow it down and kill them in the half court. It'll go 6 or 7 but Dallas wins. I can easily see Utah there,too. They'll need Boozer to be right though. hopefully that oblique strain is nothing that will cost him time. I don't doubt the Lakers talent but they have been in an extended funk. Let's see if they can flip a switch. Deron Williams is a beast. I think this is the year that pg play costs the Lakers."

Again, nothing here to be ashamed of. The west is full of 50+ win teams. Nobody ever thought Karl was acually the glue that held those guys together because he's been there for years and Denver had always melted down. Most of the free world believed Billups was the man for Denver and that he had the knuckleheads on lock. I said all year Denver was too shallow and with Nene out and Kmart wrecked they didn't have the bodies. Nobody could have foreseen the injuries actually occuring or Karl being sidelined with cancer. Sorry my crystal ball was cracked.

Utah was decimated by injury but played the best of anyone in the west from January on. No issue there.

Flatly stated LA was in a funk and they were. Flatly said I loved their talent and still do. Said they;d have to flip a switch. They have, see OKC after game 4.

Deron Williams is a beast.

PG play can still cost the Lakers with Nash in front of them and Nelson or Rondo after that.

Matt2000 is the man.

You're better than this juvenile attempt at provocation and banter. Let it go. At the very least make a salient point. If this proves to be an impossibility for you then please understand this. One day you'll be all grown. You'll have a wife and a son. You own a house. Your weekends will involve airplanes and not penny pitcher or quarter shots. It's at that point you'll realize ...............

As always, the words are appreciated.:cool:

Of course, LA is still my pick to win the entire thing but, if there is a reason why they get beat, then the PG position will be one of the keys to that happening.

Oh, and Rajon Rondo is underrated.

SLC93

05-17-2010, 10:01 AM

As always, the words are appreciated.:cool:

Of course, LA is still my pick to win the entire thing but, if there is a reason why they get beat, then the PG position will be one of the keys to that happening.

Oh, and Rajon Rondo is underrated.

Always, my friend.:cool:

LA is the team beat. I think they're strength and length on the frontline allows for their pg deficiency to be masked. Tough to finsih after penetration when Odom, Gasol and Bynum are at the rim.

Rondo is amazing.

Matthew 2000 Eagle

05-17-2010, 10:19 AM

Always, my friend.:cool:

LA is the team beat. I think they're strength and length on the frontline allows for their pg deficiency to be masked. Tough to finsih after penetration when Odom, Gasol and Bynum are at the rim.

Rondo is amazing.

LA's length up front is downright rediculous and, it's very hard to deal with.

Speaking of LA and length, a cousin of mine said that if Dirk does leave, HE thinks he might go to LA and would even be willing to come off the bench for a ring. To be totally honest, it wouldn't surprise me. Dirk is at the point in his career where, it's not all about the money. He wants a trophy and not only that but, Kobe thinks the world of him.

Wouldn't surprise me to see him go south down 35 and put on black and silver either.

SLC93

05-17-2010, 11:19 AM

LA's length up front is downright rediculous and, it's very hard to deal with.

Speaking of LA and length, a cousin of mine said that if Dirk does leave, HE thinks he might go to LA and would even be willing to come off the bench for a ring. To be totally honest, it wouldn't surprise me. Dirk is at the point in his career where, it's not all about the money. He wants a trophy and not only that but, Kobe thinks the world of him.

Wouldn't surprise me to see him go south down 35 and put on black and silver either.

Dirk is exactly the kind of star that can do whatever is asked of him for the betterment of the team. He's completely devoid the diva ego. Having said that him moving will not happen right now. He's 31 and, barring injury, has 2-3 prime years left. With his style, he'll have another 2-3 after that as a good player. It isn't all about the money for Dirk but there is a huge difference between signing a 100 million dollar deal in Dallas and getting the MLE( 35-40) that LA could give him. Nobody leaves 60 million on the table. To be in LA he'd have to go via sign and trade where the dollars are much closer to his market value. Now, in 3 years or so, after his extension is up I could see it but not before then.

Fleeman93

05-17-2010, 02:47 PM

Dirk is exactly the kind of star that can do whatever is asked of him for the betterment of the team. He's completely devoid the diva ego. Having said that him moving will not happen right now. He's 31 and, barring injury, has 2-3 prime years left. With his style, he'll have another 2-3 after that as a good player. It isn't all about the money for Dirk but there is a huge difference between signing a 100 million dollar deal in Dallas and getting the MLE( 35-40) that LA could give him. Nobody leaves 60 million on the table. To be in LA he'd have to go via sign and trade where the dollars are much closer to his market value. Now, in 3 years or so, after his extension is up I could see it but not before then.

True, he can just stay in Dallas with his 60 million and be a part of one of the greatest regular season franchises of all time.

Matthew 2000 Eagle

05-17-2010, 02:59 PM

Dirk is exactly the kind of star that can do whatever is asked of him for the betterment of the team. He's completely devoid the diva ego. Having said that him moving will not happen right now. He's 31 and, barring injury, has 2-3 prime years left. With his style, he'll have another 2-3 after that as a good player. It isn't all about the money for Dirk but there is a huge difference between signing a 100 million dollar deal in Dallas and getting the MLE( 35-40) that LA could give him. Nobody leaves 60 million on the table. To be in LA he'd have to go via sign and trade where the dollars are much closer to his market value. Now, in 3 years or so, after his extension is up I could see it but not before then.

I hope you're right because, I would hate to see him go. But, if he did leave, I wouldn't blame him and, I wouldn't be mad one bit.

SLC93

05-17-2010, 03:26 PM

I hope you're right because, I would hate to see him go. But, if he did leave, I wouldn't blame him and, I wouldn't be mad one bit.

Wouldn't blame him, either. He's put in his time.

SLC93

05-17-2010, 03:27 PM

True, he can just stay in Dallas with his 60 million and be a part of one of the greatest regular season franchises of all time.

Just like Lebron.

BlakeJ

05-17-2010, 07:55 PM

Just like Lebron.

You just compared Dirk to LeBron James

Homer

SLC93

05-18-2010, 07:11 AM

You just compared Dirk to LeBron James

Homer

Not really ... just sayin .. be fair ... If your resume includes a finals loss, an mvp, outstanding regular seasons and premature playoff exits you could be either one. The annointed one should have to face the music, too, no?

I'd argue that Lebron is in worse shape (perception wise) since he's in the East. There's never been more than 3 legit teams in the East since his career started. 7 & 8 seeds in the East a .500 or worse ball clubs. In the West they win 50 and had to fight of 9 & 10 seeds that finished over .500.

SLC93

06-12-2011, 10:40 PM

As long as Dirk is considered their leader...they're going nowhere.

My goodness .....:heli:

SLC93

06-12-2011, 10:42 PM

Dirk will never win a title in Dallas if he is defined as the teams leader and #1 threat. They need a killer...get rid of Kidd. I know you Dallas guys love him...but he isnt what he used to be.

Just put on one of the greatest series of fourth quarter performances in playoff history. He's no leader. He's no killer and Dallas will never win a title with him. Eat it.

SLC93

06-12-2011, 10:44 PM

Dirk may not be the "problem", the problem is Dirk right now is "the" guy in Dallas. Dallas needs a different "the" guy.
Dallas will never succeed as long as they are Dirk's Mavs. he needs to be the second option on that team...he's not an elite first option.

Dude just validated his place in league history and stamped his ticket to the table of elite. Your wisdom knows no bounds.:heli:

SLC93

06-12-2011, 10:48 PM

If Pau Gasol can win an NBA championship with Trevor Ariza, Lamar Odom, Derek Fisher, and Andrew Bynum....

Why cant Dirk win one with Jason Kidd, Shawn Marion, Jason Terry, Caron Butler, and Brenden Haywood??

He just did and without a Kobe Bryant next to him. Eat it.:heli:

SLC93

06-12-2011, 10:51 PM

Nice read...very accurate. Dallas hasnt and will never win a trophy while building around Dirk.

I can do this all night ..... and might.:heli:

SLC93

06-12-2011, 10:52 PM

:rofl:

Did I sleep for an entire season?? Dirk won a championship?

WAKE UP, BROTHER!:heli:

drgnbkr

06-12-2011, 11:06 PM

:D Beautiful stuff 93! :notworthy

SLC93

06-12-2011, 11:30 PM

:D Beautiful stuff 93! :notworthy

I thank you!:D

slcdragonfan

06-13-2011, 12:16 AM

Some serious pwning going on here SLC93.:notworthy

Matthew 2000 Eagle

06-13-2011, 04:13 AM

Ouch!:eek:

beaye1

06-13-2011, 07:43 AM

For those drinkning the "Haterade" I hope you saved some to go with the crow. And I hope it fills you up.

CONGRATS MAVS!!!! When's the parade?

BlakeJ

06-13-2011, 08:49 AM

Some serious pwning going on here SLC93.:notworthy

NM...not even worth my time.

E-Vol-ution

06-13-2011, 09:06 AM

SLC93

06-13-2011, 09:38 AM

Dallas took over this series with the best team defense and clutch shooting (they made them when they had to which is a big difference than one hot game shooting 60% or better) I have ever seen them play.
Well deserved ring!
Congratulations!:notworthy

For certain on both counts, sir. We thank you!

And to think .... they did it all while overcoming a superstar whose cannot lead, isn't clutch and has no killer in him. Thought that would never happen?

SLC93

06-13-2011, 09:39 AM

NM...not even worth my time.

Funny because it seemed to be worth hours, days and weeks of your time leading up to this ...... :heli:

E-Vol-ution

06-13-2011, 09:46 AM

For certain on both counts, sir. We thank you!

And to think .... they did it all while overcoming a superstar whose cannot lead, isn't clutch and has no killer in him. Thought that would never happen?

Until this one series......No one ever saw Dirk yelling at his teammates on the offensive and defensive sides of the ball.
He became a leader in the finals........clear cut difference and elevation of his game unseen and unheard of before.

SLC93

06-14-2011, 06:54 AM

He can be a 72 time all NBA guy, but that doesnt change the fact that any team he's been on where he is the #1 guy hasnt won an NBA championship and never will.

Face it...Dirk's a legit #2 who needs a #1 to get that ring. Case closed.

Sorry, BJ, I gotta get it all out.:D

SLC93

06-14-2011, 06:55 AM

SLC93

06-14-2011, 06:57 AM

Face it SLC93....your baby is ugly. I can see that...but of course you cant...and even if you could...you wouldnt admit it.

Almost done. Swear.:D

SLC93

06-14-2011, 07:06 AM

You just compared Dirk to LeBron James

Homer

Coming into this series, they had remarkably similar resumes littered MVP's, All NBA selections, All-star games, tons of regualr season wins and a Finals loss a piece.

After this series, there is no comparison. The clinic James received in 4th quarter play and respect for the game, Dirk should send him a bill for. A team with Dirk can do anything. A team with Lebron, at this point, will come up short.

lonny23

06-14-2011, 01:14 PM

Until this one series......No one ever saw Dirk yelling at his teammates on the offensive and defensive sides of the ball.
He became a leader in the finals........clear cut difference and elevation of his game unseen and unheard of before.
Dirk has been yelling for years. He didn't do it at the start of his career, but there was a lot of hoopla over him yelling at Terry in Game 6 of the Suns series when he left Nash open for a tying 3 in 2005.

lonny23

06-14-2011, 01:18 PM

Coming into this series, they had remarkably similar resumes littered MVP's, All NBA selections, All-star games, tons of regualr season wins and a Finals loss a piece.

After this series, there is no comparison. The clinic James received in 4th quarter play and respect for the game, Dirk should send him a bill for. A team with Dirk can do anything. A team with Lebron, at this point, will come up short.
It might be to stir the pot and get ratings, but Max Kellerman has been saying on 710 AM in LA since last week that Dirk is the best player in the NBA this year and that Miami would have a title now if you switch Dirk for LeBron. Kidd on Miami possibly could be a title, but Wade and LeBron don't know how to play without having the ball in their hands. They should be able to play off the ball, but they don't really do it.

BlakeJ

06-14-2011, 01:42 PM

dragonsdaddy

06-14-2011, 01:54 PM

WestPlano006

06-14-2011, 06:35 PM

SLC93, you owned BlakeJ harder than anyone else I've ever seen on this board. Well done, sir. :yes:

SLC93

06-14-2011, 07:52 PM

Dirk has won 1 championship in 13 years. Settle down children. :yes:

Of course that is one more than I thought he'd ever win.

LeBron could go on to win 3-4 titles and make these posts look dumb. He's only like 24 years old. I'd bet almost anything he wins one before he is in the league 13 years and almost 50.

Still hate em both.

That stings, don't it?:D

I do not like Lebron, all the Miami nonsense of the last year has only further cemented my feelings about him. Having said that, I'm with you. He could very well have a couple of titles by 30. I try and refrain from the mantra's about a guy can't win the big one or isn't clutch because it seems so many of the great ones take that beating on their way to the top. Remember when Jordan was never going to win the big one? Peyton Manning chokes under pressure? The list is too long to get into, really. Now, Lebron has miles to go and work to do but the odds are he'll get there. I will say it is not nearly the guaranteed prospect that so many think it to be, though. With the Bulls and Thunder rising, a potentially dramatic shift in the new CBA and a the real possibility that Wade begins breaking down at a relatively early age, Miami better start taking things serious and get in the gym this summer.