Poor officiating

[CAKEETO]

It seems like the guys in black and white stripes are having a very poor year. I was at the CyCreek/CyFalls game last night, and the officials were horrible. Obvious missed holding calls, no pass interference calls, phantom holding calls. It seems like the officials don't know the rules. I listened to the wrap up of the Laporte game, and it sounded like the officials in that game did not do a good job either.

The officials need to let the kids decide the outcome of the game.

[NSMustangProud]

It seems like the guys in black and white stripes are having a very poor year. I was at the CyCreek/CyFalls game last night, and the officials were horrible. Obvious missed holding calls, no pass interference calls, phantom holding calls. It seems like the officials don't know the rules. I listened to the wrap up of the Laporte game, and it sounded like the officials in that game did not do a good job either.

The officials need to let the kids decide the outcome of the game.

I felt the same way over in the Baytown direction at the NS/Sterling game....although it didn't affect our big win the refs were horrible!

[Shamu85]

It seems like the guys in black and white stripes are having a very poor year. I was at the CyCreek/CyFalls game last night, and the officials were horrible. Obvious missed holding calls, no pass interference calls, phantom holding calls. It seems like the officials don't know the rules. I listened to the wrap up of the Laporte game, and it sounded like the officials in that game did not do a good job either.

The officials need to let the kids decide the outcome of the game.

Maybe they are rotating regions that have bad officiating. :D Seems like the Austin area was atrocious last year, not so bad this year. There were some complaints about officiating in the Dallas area on the Boyd-Plano thread, too.

[JagDad07]

Various refereeing associations have varying degrees of capability. The Fort Worth guys that I have seen so far this year have really been good.

I have found holding to be the one call that varies the most between associations. My son's team gets called for holding a lot more when they go out west, where there are more running teams.

I guess all you can hope for is, if you feel they are inept, that they are equally inept both ways.

Or better yet, volunteer to get out there and do it yourself once your kid is out of football. Great way to stay in the game, get some excercise, and earn a little extra cash. Don't complain - step up and do it right!

Also keep in mind you may not know the rules as well as they do.

[toonman]

A lot of the calls needing to be made by officials are judgment calls. What is pass interference by one person is uncatchable to another. Not all the rules of the game are just plain black and white, but whenever a judgment is needed there will never be total agreement.

While I am sure officials do not intentionally favor one side over another, all we can hope for is consistency, so at least there is an element of standardization of decision making. It is frustrating to players and fans alike when there is not consistent interpretation of the rules in the same game.

We need the officials and I am amazed at the number of games played on Friday night, yet we need a full crew of officials at each game.

I am certainly grateful that there people willing to do this, what must be at times - a thankless task.

[NSMustangProud]

A lot of the calls needing to be made by officials are judgment calls. What is pass interference by one person is uncatchable to another. Not all the rules of the game are just plain black and white, but whenever a judgment is needed there will never be total agreement.

While I am sure officials do not intentionally favor one side over another, all we can hope for is consistency, so at least there is an element of standardization of decision making. It is frustrating to players and fans alike when there is not consistent interpretation of the rules in the same game.

We need the officials and I am amazed at the number of games played on Friday night, yet we need a full crew of officials at each game.

I am certainly grateful that there people willing to do this, what must be at times - a thankless task.

Kind of like being on the school board!

[TigerHat]

Katy on the other hand receives very consistent refereeing every game. The refs consistently seem to believe that it is their job to even the games up - short spot Katy - long spot their opponents, call phantom holding calls any time Katy makes a big running or passing play. The team has realized that it not only has to drag its opponents up and down the field, but that it also has to drag the refs.

I dare any ref out there to dispute what I have said here, there are years of Katy game tapes that back up everything I have to say, and all of you know it. Even the fans in the stands who don't pay any attention to such things are starting to notice the ridiculous spots. Shame on all of you officials - it is not your job to "level the playing field".

By the way, I am sure SLC gets the same treatment. It seems to be a 'reward' for consistent excellence. Football is a game of inches - a few feet here and there really makes a difference.

[texalaska]

It seems like the guys in black and white stripes are having a very poor year. I was at the CyCreek/CyFalls game last night, and the officials were horrible. Obvious missed holding calls, no pass interference calls, phantom holding calls. It seems like the officials don't know the rules. I listened to the wrap up of the Laporte game, and it sounded like the officials in that game did not do a good job either.

The officials need to let the kids decide the outcome of the game.

Yep, totally agree.

[tjw]

Every coach fills a report card on the crew and they can write up the crew or an individual referee for what they consider bad calls. TASO does review these and takes action if one referee gets to many bad reports. So up to the coaches to weed out the bad referees.

[ktCarl]

It seems like the guys in black and white stripes are having a very poor year. I was at the CyCreek/CyFalls game last night, and the officials were horrible. Obvious missed holding calls, no pass interference calls, phantom holding calls. It seems like the officials don't know the rules. I listened to the wrap up of the Laporte game, and it sounded like the officials in that game did not do a good job either.

The officials need to let the kids decide the outcome of the game.

Welcome to Texas High School football. Sadly, you must get used to it. :mad:

[OakTreeUp-n-Out]

I would encourage any of you to get out there and give it a shot. I felt the same way many in this thread feel, so I went out and started reffing games this year. Eye-opening experience, to say the least. Some calls are a lot more plain up close and personal, but some are much easier to call from the stands as well. It's been a blast, even though it's cut down on my ability to go watch as many games as I'd like. Almost every chapter I know of is short on Friday nights and often has to scramble to fill the games... so you get what's available. If a chapter needs 70 officials and has a total of 75 members, that means a lot of the bottom tier guys are going to be calling varsity games. You don't get paid much (you really don't get into it for the pay) and get your ear chewed off weekly. Fun :D

[Trinity Alum]

Various refereeing associations have varying degrees of capability. The Fort Worth guys that I have seen so far this year have really been good.

I have found holding to be the one call that varies the most between associations. My son's team gets called for holding a lot more when they go out west, where there are more running teams.

I guess all you can hope for is, if you feel they are inept, that they are equally inept both ways.

Or better yet, volunteer to get out there and do it yourself once your kid is out of football. Great way to stay in the game, get some excercise, and earn a little extra cash. Don't complain - step up and do it right!
Also keep in mind you may not know the rules as well as they do.

:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy

[texalaska]

I would encourage any of you to get out there and give it a shot. I felt the same way many in this thread feel, so I went out and started reffing games this year. Eye-opening experience, to say the least. Some calls are a lot more plain up close and personal, but some are much easier to call from the stands as well. It's been a blast, even though it's cut down on my ability to go watch as many games as I'd like. Almost every chapter I know of is short on Friday nights and often has to scramble to fill the games... so you get what's available. If a chapter needs 70 officials and has a total of 75 members, that means a lot of the bottom tier guys are going to be calling varsity games. You don't get paid much (you really don't get into it for the pay) and get your ear chewed off weekly. Fun :D

Thank you for doing that. You are correct that more guys need to get into reffing.

I would do it, but they don't let ladies ref. :confused:

[JagDad07]

I dare any ref out there to dispute what I have said here, there are years of Katy game tapes that back up everything I have to say, and all of you know it. I have been to two Katy games in the last several years - a playoff game against Humble in - 2002, perhaps? And the state championship game against SLC in - what was it, 2005?

Anyway, both games seemed to be well officiated.

And I think Fort Worth has a few female refs - I know I saw some being trained at a scrimmage this past August.

I gotta talk my wife into letting me ref again - I have a child in high school band right now and Friday night games would be tough, and my other one is playing college ball, but they still always need guys for subvarsity and the like.

[trojanbacker]

75 % the people sitting in the stands don't know the rules and are viewing the play from 50 yards away. I tend to think refs get it right most of the time.

[CAKEETO]

75 % the people sitting in the stands don't know the rules and are viewing the play from 50 yards away. I tend to think refs get it right most of the time.

Stevie Wonder could see the missed holding calls and pass interference calls in our game last week.

[JagDad07]

Then I'm sure TASO will value your keen eyesight and knowledge of the game. You can contact them at:

http://www.taso.org/

Thanks in advance for volunteering your time to youth sports. But be prepared - there are a lot of people out there who will scream and curse at you over your judgement calls.

[CAKEETO]

Then I'm sure TASO will value your keen eyesight and knowledge of the game. You can contact them at:

http://www.taso.org/

Thanks in advance for volunteering your time to youth sports. But be prepared - there are a lot of people out there who will scream and curse at you over your judgement calls.



JagDad, I do not have to volunteer or become an official to share concerns about poor officiating. Officiating that I have seen is poor and getting worse. If one is going to officiate, do it well, or don't do it at all.

[JagDad07]

I agree, and you sound as if you would be an excellent one. Here's your local link:

http://www.houstonreferee.com/

by the way, there are two kinds of people in the world: those who complain about things and those who do things.

[E-Vol-ution]

So like.......your team lost huh?:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
It seems like the guys in black and white stripes are having a very poor year. I was at the CyCreek/CyFalls game last night, and the officials were horrible. Obvious missed holding calls, no pass interference calls, phantom holding calls. It seems like the officials don't know the rules. I listened to the wrap up of the Laporte game, and it sounded like the officials in that game did not do a good job either.

The officials need to let the kids decide the outcome of the game.

[WildcatFan2]

JagDad, I do not have to volunteer or become an official to share concerns about poor officiating. Officiating that I have seen is poor and getting worse. If one is going to officiate, do it well, or don't do it at all.

The Plano/Boyd game was really bad. Missed interference calls, then really bad ones. Why? Usually because the guy was 30 yrads away from the play because he couldn't keep up.

I hate the... "don't complain unless you want to get out there" argument. These people DID choose to go out there and get paid for it. In the P/B game, they didn't even seem to know the rules.

What is a defender to do when the receiver has a hodl of his shoulder pads, then releases/pushes off just as the ball gets there.

[beaye1]

The Plano/Boyd game was really bad. Missed interference calls, then really bad ones. Why? Usually because the guy was 30 yrads away from the play because he couldn't keep up.

I hate the... "don't complain unless you want to get out there" argument. These people DID choose to go out there and get paid for it. In the P/B game, they didn't even seem to know the rules.

What is a defender to do when the receiver has a hodl of his shoulder pads, then releases/pushes off just as the ball gets there.

However they didn't teach the kids how to hold where it is not seen either. Was OPI called on the receiver? Did the defender just allow him to just grab him without making some movement to make this known? I can only give ways to make it apparent instead of assuming that the official(s) will make the call. That like the official assuming a player will play correctly. And who was 30 yards away? The headlinesman or the back judge?

[JagDad07]

I hate the... "don't complain unless you want to get out there" argument. These people DID choose to go out there and get paid for it. In the P/B game, they didn't even seem to know the rules.
You too sound as if you have a fine eye for the game. But you may be disappointed by the pay you noted - you MAY get a $100 for a huge game.

[beaye1]

You too sound as if you have a fine eye for the game. But you may be disappointed by the pay you noted - you MAY get a $100 for a huge game.

Especially in Plano...

[WildcatFan2]

However they didn't teach the kids how to hold where it is not seen either. Was OPI called on the receiver? Did the defender just allow him to just grab him without making some movement to make this known? I can only give ways to make it apparent instead of assuming that the official(s) will make the call. That like the official assuming a player will play correctly. And who was 30 yards away? The headlinesman or the back judge?

Back judge. I know, I know, he positions himself down field.

Db was running with the receiver, receiver sees ball thrown, puts hands on shoulder pads until he needs to jump or release... defender can't turn or jump. If the defender looks back too soon, the receiver runs away from him or creates much more separation. However... they missed some obvious DPI too. They just seemed out of position.

Not to mention guys being dragged down by a jersey on a block, etc. Just a bad night for the crew. The worst call was a roughing the passer on an INT. I would LOVE to see that play again.

Oh well... got the win and now have 2 weeks to prepare for the last game.


From the comments on the board here and other places... how is it possible for officials to hav an unbiased view. Seems lie Plano is hated everywhere... along with some others. :)

[beaye1]

Back judge. I know, I know, he positions himself down field.

Db was running with the receiver, receiver sees ball thrown, puts hands on shoulder pads until he needs to jump or release... defender can't turn or jump. If the defender looks back too soon, the receiver runs away from him or creates much more separation. However... they missed some obvious DPI too. They just seemed out of position.

Not to mention guys being dragged down by a jersey on a block, etc. Just a bad night for the crew. The worst call was a roughing the passer on an INT. I would LOVE to see that play again.

Oh well... got the win and now have 2 weeks to prepare for the last game.


From the comments on the board here and other places... how is it possible for officials to hav an unbiased view. Seems lie Plano is hated everywhere... along with some others. :)
Plano is not hated. I love Clark stadium and the people that work there. Even the police who work there are kind and actually funny. Actually I was born/raised in Dallas. I can't explain the officiating crew and their actions, I just think that a lot of people have this misconception that officials have it in for their teams. The coaches mutually agree on the officials that do their games and in Dallas they are afforded the chance to actually rate them. This rating goes to the Secretary first, then the crew chief. Sometimes it may be a new/young crew who are still trying to mesh. It also depends on the skills of the teams that are playing against each and how they are taught to play their position. Don't get me wrong, kids will do whatever it takes to get an advantage on the field. It's the officials duty to insure it within the rules of the game and to penalize when seen. With spread offenses these days, this is hard for a 5 man crews because of mechanics.

[E-Vol-ution]

:DI have made an astute observation...............the officiating always is worse when your team isn't winning.
Anyone from a winning team here feel officiating is horrible this year?
Please don't flood the forum with too many people in agreement.:rolleyes:

[JagDad07]

beaye1 makes a great point - really tough to cover that whole field with a 5 man crew - the back judge has to play SO far back. The normal position is 15-20 yards back, but I've seen a lot of guys lining up as much as 25-30 yards back and umpires 10-15 yards back.

[Shamu85]

:DI have made an astute observation...............the officiating always is worse when your team isn't winning.
Anyone from a winning team here feel officiating is horrible this year?
Please don't flood the forum with too many people in agreement.:rolleyes:

Actually, for me it is just the opposite. Last year Georgetown made the playoffs and the officiating was horrible in at least 4 games. Against WW, we had 9 holding penalties called, several because the referee, who was standing a good 40 yards behind the LOS, called holding when a defensive player was pancaked and o-lineman laid on him. As for this year, Georgetown is 0-8 and the officiating has been consistently good. There's always a holding call someone would like to see made.

[E-Vol-ution]

Were those four games you happened to lose?
Seriously.......you wouldn't make a thread about great officiating during the course of your 0 for 8 season right?
The only job people are a little more forgiving seems to be......um...er....guys who run football web sites.:DActually, for me it is just the opposite. Last year Georgetown made the playoffs and the officiating was horrible in at least 4 games. Against WW, we had 9 holding penalties called, several because the referee, who was standing a good 40 yards behind the LOS, called holding when a defensive player was pancaked and o-lineman laid on him. As for this year, Georgetown is 0-8 and the officiating has been consistently good. There's always a holding call someone would like to see made.

[Shamu85]

Were those four games you happened to lose?

No. Beat WW in fact.

Seriously.......you wouldn't make a thread about great officiating during the course of your 0 for 8 season right?


Nope, because why shouldn't it be expected to be good? I find the "do it yourself" argument completely disingenuous as well. That approach would have you doing everything you wanted done well yourself. Complete nonsense. Not everyone has the time to officiate high school games because they are being productive in other ways.

You Deserve What You Tolerate

[WildcatFan2]

We won the game. Lost last week to West and I thought they did a very good job.

[CAKEETO]

:DI have made an astute observation...............the officiating always is worse when your team isn't winning.
Anyone from a winning team here feel officiating is horrible this year?
Please don't flood the forum with too many people in agreement.:rolleyes:



We won 55-28 and are 7-1. I am a person with a winning team that feels that the officiating has gotten worse. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[CAKEETO]

The Plano/Boyd game was really bad. Missed interference calls, then really bad ones. Why? Usually because the guy was 30 yrads away from the play because he couldn't keep up.

I hate the... "don't complain unless you want to get out there" argument. These people DID choose to go out there and get paid for it. In the P/B game, they didn't even seem to know the rules.

What is a defender to do when the receiver has a hodl of his shoulder pads, then releases/pushes off just as the ball gets there.

I AGREE...:notworthy:notworthy

[TXMike]

Some excellent points made by some astute observers in this thread. No need to rehash the problems associated with judgment calls, but on some other points:
1 - Gals can and DO ref. In fact, this year there is a gal in D-1 college football working Conference USA games. Also a few in the SWAC and 1 in the MEAC I belive. Quite a few more doing Texas HS ball around the state.
2 - The spread offenses of today cannot be correctly and adequately officiated by a 5 man crew. The astute defensive coaches know what will likely not be seen and likely coach their DB's and LB's accordingly.
3 - Being close to the play does not help "make the call". In many cases it is better to be farther away than be right on it. Why do you think all the folks in the stands see things we do not. They are farther away, must help the vision.

Finally, if you think officiting is bad now, you ain't seen nothing yet. Next year is going to be very interesting now that UIL is taking it over. There is a huge infrastructure required to train guys to even keep them as mildly proficient as they are now. UIL does not have that and cannot put that in place before next season. Furthermore, there is talk (hopefully that is all it is is just talk) that many experienced guys will not return as they are upset over how this "takeover" was accomplished and what it means for the future of officiating in Texas.

[WildcatFan2]

..

[WildcatFan2]

TXMike, who has it now? I always assumed that each chapter was part of UIL. Very interesting.

Just curious... what is the official sideline call? I see coaches all the time out on the field... Plano, Plano West, Wylie, Bowie, Allen, and on and on.

Also... what is the official ruling once a QB is out of the pocket? The roughing call I was talking about, Griffin had scrambled all the way to the sideline after reversing field. He passed the ball, then was pushed.

[TXMike]

There is an organization called Texas Association of Sports Officials (and before that many years ago it was the Southwest Officials Association). It has Divisions for each major sport, i.e. football, basketball, baseball, etc etc. Each Division had Chapters located around the state. The Chapters ran their own organizations but ultimately answered to the state (TASO). The Chapters coordinated game assignments with the schools in their respective areas. The Chapters and the State association ran the training/certification programs.

Sidelines - between plays, not an issue. Once ball is live nobody except refs should be on the field or in the restricted area which is the zone running 6 feet from the sideline outwards.

Roughing the passer - Just because he gets outside the tackle box does not mean defense gets a free shot. The tackle box has nothing to do with the roughing the passer rule. That box does come into play on intentional grounding calls and some other non-passing related issues.

[tjw]

Wow, this sounds worse than any I've seen. Talk about poor officiating. LINK (http://dfw.hsgametime.com/index.php?page_id=1000&site_page_id=5&post_id=8349)

[FeeltheHaka]

In my opinion, Sports officiating is one of the toughest jobs there is. I think it takes a huge pair of Gonads to do the job. One is putting their reputation and safety on the line. We have all seen people scream not only insults, but threats at these guys all the time. We see on TV, little league coaches getting attacked by parents. When a coach does not win enough, he may come home to find "For Sale" signs in his yard, and a smashed mail box. Just think what a ref. may face for making a call that someone doesn't agree with. Ref. are routinely booed, but I've never seen anyone cheer for them. I've never seen any type of rewards ceremony or hall of fame for refs. They don't get performance raises, Christmas bonuses or even told they are doing a great job. It's a thankless job.
I agree with the post that points out that one's viewing angle gives totally different perceptions of a play.
I also think we need to remember that this is the high school level. I here people (including myself) complain about officiating at college and pros. And those guys get it wrong sometimes too. One needs to ask themselves if when they do their job, if they do their job perfectly all the time.
And at the end of the day, these refs. are someone's father, son, brother and husband.

[packfan75]

I don't mind losing a game - especially to a great team. What I DO mind, however, is the refs making calls that are so questionable that the play-by-play guys for the team that is benefitting from them are complaining. No refs should EVER have that kind of effect on a game.

[TXMike]

Ref. are routinely booed, but I've never seen anyone cheer for them.

:notworthyActually we get cheered by 1/2 of the stands on most every flag we throw. :D

[mojotrain]

I think those who call pee wee games are very poor and I don't think pee wee players are good.

I think those who call Junior high games are barely competent and I think Junior high players are just still kinda learning too.


I think those who call high school games are competent and some but not all high school players are competent.

I think those who call college games are good, nearly as good as those who call pro games. I think college players are better than highschool players but not as good as pro players.

I think those who call pro games are the very best but not perfect. I think pro players are the best players of all, but not perfect.

I think those who call Abilene High games call pee wee games on saturday mornings.:)

[CAKEETO]

I think those who call pee wee games are very poor and I don't think pee wee players are good.

I think those who call Junior high games are barely competent and I think Junior high players are just still kinda learning too.


I think those who call high school games are competent and some but not all high school players are competent.

I think those who call college games are good, nearly as good as those who call pro games. I think college players are better than highschool players but not as good as pro players.

I think those who call pro games are the very best but not perfect. I think pro players are the best players of all, but not perfect.

I think those who call Abilene High games call pee wee games on saturday mornings.:)

Good post. Ditto for the refs that call CyCeek games.:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy

[mojotrain]

Good post. Ditto for the refs that call CyCeek games.:notworthy:notworthy:notworthy


Shoot! At one time you could stir up something with Abilene fans with a post like mine. They may have become like those California contented cows, just to busy chewing cud and getting big.:)

[jbusch]

Katy on the other hand receives very consistent refereeing every game. The refs consistently seem to believe that it is their job to even the games up - short spot Katy - long spot their opponents, call phantom holding calls any time Katy makes a big running or passing play. The team has realized that it not only has to drag its opponents up and down the field, but that it also has to drag the refs.

I dare any ref out there to dispute what I have said here, there are years of Katy game tapes that back up everything I have to say, and all of you know it. Even the fans in the stands who don't pay any attention to such things are starting to notice the ridiculous spots. Shame on all of you officials - it is not your job to "level the playing field".

By the way, I am sure SLC gets the same treatment. It seems to be a 'reward' for consistent excellence. Football is a game of inches - a few feet here and there really makes a difference. It would be intersting to see Trinity Play Katy - IMO we seem to often get the same "treatment", this week was different the County Sheriff is an offical and he did a great job.

[mojotrain]

It would be intersting to see Trinity Play Katy - IMO we seem to often get the same "treatment", this week was different the County Sheriff is an offical and he did a great job.

I wouldn't mind seeing Trinity and Katy play. With or without stripes.

[chhspantherfan]

Retribution for complaining about the refs.

http://i.ehow.com/images/GlobalPhoto/Articles/5069527/techbanyan.com_Full.jpg

[Gomer93'KHS]

Retribution for complaining about the refs.

http://i.ehow.com/images/GlobalPhoto/Articles/5069527/techbanyan.com_Full.jpg

I don't care who you are that right there is funny!! :D

[Love]

Nothing like Bellaire vs. Lamar the offi gave them a 5th down and they did nothing same offi in the Bellaire vs. Madison game did a bad call there and cost Bellaire both those games its on abc13.com. So SaD!!