What a F'n mess

[drgnbkr]

Let's just totally wimp out...Our allies in Europe must wonder where this guy came from... We know.. the mean streets of Chicago...:rolleyes: We let our troops languish in Afghanistan and Iraq...So what if they are getting killed? Now we bail on Poland and the others...Thanks big O! And Iran now has the ability to build a nuke and deliver it! Let's go ahead and cancel our missile shield program.

[Dawg Fan]

and you are somehow shocked?:eek:

[pied]

Let's just totally wimp out...Our allies in Europe must wonder where this guy came from... We know.. the mean streets of Chicago...:rolleyes: We let our troops languish in Afghanistan and Iraq...So what if they are getting killed? Now we bail on Poland and the others...Thanks big O! And Iran now has the ability to build a nuke and deliver it! Let's go ahead and cancel our missile shield program.

I thought they hadn't?

The U.S. intelligence community is reporting to the White House that Iran has not restarted its nuclear-weapons development program, two counterproliferation officials tell NEWSWEEK. U.S. agencies had previously said that Tehran halted the program in 2003.


http://www.newsweek.com/id/215529

Who are we protecting Poland from?

[BDB]

I thought they hadn't?




http://www.newsweek.com/id/215529

Who are we protecting Poland from?

our own nukes?

[drgnbkr]

I thought they hadn't?




http://www.newsweek.com/id/215529

Who are we protecting Poland from?

The IAEA, not exactly a friend of the US came out with their report today on Iran...Not exactly news, but lame confirmation of something we've known for a while...Poland and the rest of NATO is not exactly happy with obama for abandoning them to the Russian's, but hey, who cares anymore? We are living in a utopia ourselves, right? Peace, love and free health care for all!:rolleyes:

[pied]

The IAEA, not exactly a friend of the US came out with their report today on Iran...Not exactly news, but lame confirmation of something we've known for a while...Poland and the rest of NATO is not exactly happy with obama for abandoning them to the Russian's, but hey, who cares anymore? We are living in a utopia ourselves, right? Peace, love and free health care for all!:rolleyes:

Should we protect Poland from a missile attack, that likely won't happen and likely won't work or pay for healthcare for Americans without it?

Is Russia nuking Poland a bigger, more important threat than the health of US citizens?

[mad_fan]

If they don't have nukes they can't bring the good fight...
I'm ready...hell...let's help 'em build some and see what they do with 'em...
I'm pretty sure we'd have the last shot...and that'd mean we won...

[F18mustang]

Should we protect Poland from a missile attack, that likely won't happen and likely won't work or pay for healthcare for Americans without it?

Is Russia nuking Poland a bigger, more important threat than the health of US citizens?

Why would Russia nuke anybody in the first place? Is there something going that we don't know about?

[BDB]

If they don't have nukes they can't bring the good fight...
I'm ready...hell...let's help 'em build some and see what they do with 'em...
I'm pretty sure we'd have the last shot...and that'd mean we won...

call me a pacifist, but i thought nukes bring armageddon....

[pied]

Why would Russia nuke anybody in the first place? Is there something going that we don't know about?

Very good question.

[pied]

This article makes you believe they are scrapping it in Europe to help out in the Middle East. Also that they don't have the bomb but can make one.

Iran experts at the U.N nuclear monitoring agency believe Tehran has the ability to make a nuclear bomb and worked on developing a missile system that can carry an atomic warhead, according to a confidential report seen by The Associated Press.

The document drafted by senior officials at the International Atomic Energy Agency is the clearest indication yet that those officials share Washington's views on Iran's weapon-making capabilities and missile technology _ even if they have not made those views public.

....


The Obama administration said Thursday it was scrapping a Bush-era plan for a missile defense shield in Eastern Europe. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said the decision came after U.S. intelligence concluded that Iran's short- and medium-range missiles were developing more rapidly than previously projected and now pose a greater near-term threat than the intercontinental ballistic missiles addressed by the plan under former President George W. Bush.


http://www.onenewsnow.com/AP/Search/World/Default.aspx?id=686766

[drgnbkr]

Should we protect Poland from a missile attack, that likely won't happen and likely won't work or pay for healthcare for Americans without it?

Is Russia nuking Poland a bigger, more important threat than the health of US citizens?

There is no hope for those with eyes who refuse to see...

[cougmantx]

There is no hope for those with eyes who refuse to see...

Russia doesn't need to nuke anyone...they control the natural gas, oil and pipelines for most of Europe and Middle East if it is going overland. All they need to do is close it down as they did earlier this year to make their point.

Mean while China is moving into all the area's of Africa with huge natural resources, making contracts with the countries with a clause that China's construction companies become primary contractors and the equipment is purchased from China. They are also making huge advances in solar, wind and hydro technology.

Mean while we call each other names and remain diverted from the real threats to peace and prosperity and what will probably bring on the next world war...that would be the depletion of natural resources or the complete monopoly of them by people that don't care for us much.

We need to get a grip people. We are being severely outmaneuvered and distracted. Nukes in Poland are the least of our problems.

[the_phoenix612]

Why would Russia nuke anybody in the first place? Is there something going that we don't know about?

We didn't grow up in the Cold War, so we don't know the paranoia.

Russkies=evil satanic demons. Always.

They could give a cute puppy dog to every girl in the world out of the kindness of their hearts and someone would say its the beginning of WWIII

[cougmantx]

We didn't grow up in the Cold War, so we don't know the paranoia.

Russkies=evil satanic demons. Always.

They could give a cute puppy dog to every girl in the world out of the kindness of their hearts and someone would say its the beginning of WWIII

There is some truth to what you say phoenix612, but there are many of us that remember the drills in elementary school where we hid under our desk or on the floors in the hall way for a nuclear threat.

Some of us served in the Armed Forces during those times to. Russia was a real threat and relations were icy cold. What brought Russia down was more financial and economical than the military, although there was a component of the military involved.

Having said that, don't underestimate their willingness to undermine the United States any chance they get. Their country is built on paranoia of the west, or for that matter of all other countries. A trend I see building in this country in some ways. People operating out of paranoia are not rational and therefore unpredictable. They also have some advantages right now that we are not acknowledging and hence, not taking preventive actions to address.

IMO

[the_phoenix612]

There is some truth to what you say phoenix612, but there are many of us that remember the drills in elementary school where we hid under our desk or on the floors in the hall way for a nuclear threat.

Some of us served in the Armed Forces during those times to. Russia was a real threat and relations were icy cold. What brought Russia down was more financial and economical than the military, although there was a component of the military involved.

Having said that, don't underestimate their willingness to undermine the United States any chance they get. Their country is built on paranoia of the west, or for that matter of all other countries. A trend I see building in this country in some ways. People operating out of paranoia are not rational and therefore unpredictable. They also have some advantages right now that we are not acknowledging and hence, not taking preventive actions to address.

IMO

International diplomacy is not a zero-sum game.

Some people need to learn that.

[the_phoenix612]

From Fox News:

President Obama used as part of his decision to ditch a missile defense shield in Eastern Europe information from a May 2009 National Intelligence Estimate that said Iran would take three to five years longer than originally anticipated to build a long-range missile system, a senior administration official confirmed Friday.

Cartwright said he suspects by the time defense officials look at placing long-range intercept missiles on the ground in Europe they will have moved to an advanced SM-3 model that will basically be an upgraded version of the ground-based system that was planned for Poland. The SM-3 won't be available until 2015, if all goes as planned in the testing.

Cartwright said that the administration felt that if Iran's long range program was going slower than expected then the U.S. had time to develop this upgraded SM-3.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/18/nie-used-obama-iran-long-range-missile-capacity-years-longer/

So basically, we have time to put into the field our upgraded version of the current interceptor, which, if placed farther away, is said to still cover Europe.

[cougmantx]

International diplomacy is not a zero-sum game.

Some people need to learn that.

True but it takes two honest brokers to succeed at it and the Russians have proven time and again their unwillingness to work as a member of a larger world...much as you (and I) have complained the United States didn't under a recent President.

Treaties and agreements aren't worth the paper they are written on if you can't trust the ones signing them. Both of our countries have broken their word in my opinion.

I'm not saying we shouldn't try...because ultimately that is the only rational way forward with the threats we face, but don't fool yourself into thinking that Russia gives a damn about anyone else but Russia.

You were right in your original post about it being a generational thing and as one from the generation you refereed to I just wanted to caution you about the true Russia and the face Russia presents to the world. I spent many years running around the Baltic and North Seas monitoring them.

I do agree that the missiles should not be deployed in Poland and that we have plenty scattered around the world on subs and surface vessels not including the ISBM's stationed here in the United States to end the world as we know it many times over.

I'm for International Depolmacy...let's get after it, but we need to be much wiser than we have been. We keep giving away the store and allowing others to basically continue on as they want.

We are rapidly becoming a toothless or paper Tiger because we compromise our values in the name of the god's of international trade and multi national corporations.

Or could it be that they have become our real gods...????? Sad.

[Pinion]

http://lenox8081.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/change-hitler-obama-lenin.jpg

[cougmantx]

http://lenox8081.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/change-hitler-obama-lenin.jpg

WOW...real original...

[drgnbkr]

Somehow the reality of deterrence is being forgotten...Putin would love to re-assemble the Soviet States and without a deterrence, he will proceed...Without a strong NATO he will continue to move aggressively.

[tayb]

None of our business building a missile shield in Poland.

[cougmantx]

Somehow the reality of deterrence is being forgotten...Putin would love to re-assemble the Soviet States and without a deterrence, he will proceed...Without a strong NATO he will continue to move aggressively.

I agree that you that he would love to and there is deterrence! We are not without our resources and he knows it.

As far as re-assembling the Soviet States...much harder to do with out the world war that allowed them to be assembled in the first place. Many have had freedom now for 20 years. It's very hard to put the Genie back in the bottle after it has gotten out.

I don't disagree on what he would like to do, I just don't think it is possible. We do need a strong NATO but it has been more a name than true alliance since Vietnam. There may be some changes taking place within NATO that could bring it back to it's old status.

Other of those states are becoming part of NATO or the European Union and that is threating him.

[Bobcat81]

We didn't grow up in the Cold War, so we don't know the paranoia.

Russkies=evil satanic demons. Always.

They could give a cute puppy dog to every girl in the world out of the kindness of their hearts and someone would say its the beginning of WWIII


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SME4w037FgA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0w9WJRiSFM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4jQhnXrWbg&feature=related

How thoughtful of them...

[Bobcat81]

From WND -
July 15, 2011,

"Informed defense experts say that the European defense challenges are so great that the current economic crisis facing members of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization has greatly diminished nearly all European defense capabilities."

According to Bill Gates;

He said the transatlantic partnership has turned into a "two-tiered alliance" of those "willing and able to pay the price and bear the burdens of alliance commitments, and those who enjoy the benefits of NATO membership but don't want to share the risks and the costs."

In pointing to European defense cuts, Gates said that the U.S. was tired of being the heavyweight partner and engaging in combat missions if the Europeans weren't going to accept increased responsibility for sharing the burden.

"The blunt reality is that there will be a dwindling appetite and patience in the U.S. Congress, and in the American body politic writ large, to expend increasingly precious funds on behalf of nations that are apparently unwilling to devote the necessary resources to be serious and capable partners in their own defense," Gates said.

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=322397

Partners in reference are the joke that make up NATO..

Our separation from NATO has been well overdue. It's basically a worldwide freeloader program. Time to yank the tit from the moochers and get out..