Texas Private School Place on probation & repirmanded

[DiamondJ2]

With all of the threads & posts on private schools, here is an article from the San Antonio Express-News about Cornerstone.

Eleven Cornerstone boys basketball players, including nine on the varsity, were declared ineligible by the TAPPS Executive Board, and any games in which the players participated this season have been forfeited. The board ruled Wednesday the players were given improper room-and-board inducements.
TAPPS athletic director Edd Burleson said the inducements involved "the unusually low amount charged for room and board and the fact only athletes, both eligible and ineligible, are being housed on campus in the boarding facility and were receiving this benefit."
The Warriors were 25-5 and 4-0 in TAPPS 4-4A when the penalty took effect. They lost to St.Gerard on Saturday. Cornerstone is still able to qualify for the playoffs if it plays with the remaining eligible players. Cornerstone also was placed on three years' probation and was given a public reprimand.
Cornerstone head administrator Alan Hulme declined comment.
In November, Cornerstone was banned from competing in the playoffs beginning Dec. 1, for "failure to comply with the (TAPPS) board's request to attend" a board meeting regarding the school's athletic program. That ban has been lifted.
"When Cornerstone officials met with the board (Wednesday)," Burleson said, "it satisfied the request to attend and the sanctions regarding playoffs were removed." Walter Webb is in his first season as the boys basketball coach at Cornerstone. Webb was a successful private school coach on the East Coast and came to Cornerstone from Coastal Christian in Virginia.

[AZTiger]

yeah they don't recruit or anything :rolleyes:

[farmerfan]

yeah they don't recruit or anything :rolleyes:


Just look at Arlington Grace Prep in football. What cornerstone has done is juvenile compared to Grace over the last few years. This past year alone, Grace had over 10 new transfers come to their school to play football. Their head coach Mike Barber a former Houston Oiler TE runs a prison ministry and many times has used money from that ministry to get players over to his school. TAPPS actually placed Grace Prep on probation in 2001 where they could not participate in the playoffs and gave Coach Barber a one year suspension. He has come back and nothing has changed. He gets kids to come over there for their junior and mainly senior years. I know that one of the kids on their current team got kicked out of a Ft Worth private school as well as a public school.
This past year alone they had players show up from Arlington Martin, Wilmer Hutchins, Arlingon Heights, Weatherford, Eastern Hills and a few other public schools. So they come from all over the metroplex and play at Grace for only a year. The WR Lance Legget who is at Miami came to Grace for a year, he came from Florida, played a year and went to Miami where he is a starting WR. It really is a corrupt world in private schools, looking back their are more hypocrites in TAPPS and other private schools than you will ever see in the public schools.

[drgnbkr]

I'm sure that the can of worms, that is mixing publics & privates, has the UIL plenty worried....

[LoneRocket]

I'm sure that the can of worms, that is mixing publics & privates, has the UIL plenty worried....
I think they do not want it to become another Louisiana.

[LoneRocket]

Just look at Arlington Grace Prep in football. What cornerstone has done is juvenile compared to Grace over the last few years. This past year alone, Grace had over 10 new transfers come to their school to play football. Their head coach Mike Barber a former Houston Oiler TE runs a prison ministry and many times has used money from that ministry to get players over to his school. TAPPS actually placed Grace Prep on probation in 2001 where they could not participate in the playoffs and gave Coach Barber a one year suspension. He has come back and nothing has changed. He gets kids to come over there for their junior and mainly senior years. I know that one of the kids on their current team got kicked out of a Ft Worth private school as well as a public school.
This past year alone they had players show up from Arlington Martin, Wilmer Hutchins, Arlingon Heights, Weatherford, Eastern Hills and a few other public schools. So they come from all over the metroplex and play at Grace for only a year. The WR Lance Legget who is at Miami came to Grace for a year, he came from Florida, played a year and went to Miami where he is a starting WR. It really is a corrupt world in private schools, looking back their are more hypocrites in TAPPS and other private schools than you will ever see in the public schools.
Farmer,
Look at it this way I am sure the school has programs to help these kids pass to stay eligible the 4Rs in the morning and the 1-f the second half of the day and at night.

[The Lone Ranger]

I can see the legitimate concern that these Christian schools will corrupt the UIL. However, under current UIL rules, none would be able to enter the UIL.

I think that current TAPPS members are exempt from TAPPS' 1600 enrollment cap (St. Agnes and Ursuline have been above the cut for a couple of alignments). So the only way for a Christian school like this to join the UIL would be to start a new school with over 800 boys--not likely to happen. The largest Christian school in Texas (Addison Trinity) right now has just over 400 students in high school COED. Any Christian school trying to be in the UIL would need to be 4x as large as the largest now is.

The Jesuit schools are on a completely different level. We don't do stuff like that and never have. We usually have very few transfer students, and don't have boarders. I can accept those who feel that we are just the beginning, but anyone who thinks that we don't follow the rules needs to wake up.

[Roughrider]

You know what surprises me the most is that SHrakeDrick or whatever he calls himself, isn't on here??? Seems odd? Especially after the last thread about privates he started??

[Drake]

You know what surprises me the most is that SHrakeDrick or whatever he calls himself, isn't on here??? Seems odd? Especially after the last thread about privates he started??Roughrider... I HAVE been READING the thread... I haven't commented previously because I don't know anything about the situation with Cornerstone or Arlington Grace Prep... Assuming that what has been posted about them is true, I think its wrong. I'm curious, has anything I posted in any other thread lead you to believe I would support the actions of these schools? I don't. If either of the Jesuit schools engaged in similar activity I wouldn't support them either. The reason I wouldn't is because to obstinately devote yourself to your own opinions is the sign of a BIGOT, and to make personal attacks at someone because they disagree with your opinion is the sign of a BOORISH BIGOT... I don't feel I'm either...

[DiamondJ2]

The article is fact. Cornerstone is well known for their athleltic adventures.

[bubbacoach]

I don't think it matters, until the private school become more competitive.:o

[rwilleby]

and to make personal attacks at someone because they disagree with your opinion is the sign of a BOORISH BIGOT... I don't feel I'm either...
The comment (SHrakeDrick) seemed uncalled for, espescially to disrespect you for no reason...

You give so many good reason to debate, I think this was just an unfair or uncalled for comment... :)

Or maybe just an attempt at comedy...

[Tut]

You know what surprises me the most is that SHrakeDrick or whatever he calls himself, isn't on here??? Seems odd? Especially after the last thread about privates he started??

Although I disagree with some of Drake's opinions/justifications, I believe he would be very upset if Strake did anything wrong within their rules.

With something this blatent, he'd probably lose his most recent meal and have a seizure. After recovering, those responsible would not like his thoughts.

[JCP1984]

It is unfair to compare either Jesuit school with the two private schools mentioned above. Neither has the academic tradition or the reputation of either Jesuit school. Are there private schools that cheat? Yes. Are there public schools that cheat? Yes. End of story.

[gburgtiger]

It is unfair to compare either Jesuit school with the two private schools mentioned above. Neither has the academic tradition or the reputation of either Jesuit school. Are there private schools that cheat? Yes. Are there public schools that cheat? Yes. End of story.

is it fair that the private schools have different rules than the public schools...no. Alternate end to the story.

[The Lone Ranger]

is it fair that the private schools have different rules than the public schools...no. Alternate end to the story.

Can you tell me what rules these are? Because I wasn't aware that we were following rules other than those of the University Interscholastic League.

JCP1984, I'd say you've hit the nail on the head. It's good not to be a Lone Ranger anymore.

[Tut]

Can you tell me what rules these are? Because I wasn't aware that we were following rules other than those of the University Interscholastic League..
The Jesuits have no attendance zone. I'm surprised you didn't know that already.:confused:

[gburgtiger]

Can you tell me what rules these are? Because I wasn't aware that we were following rules other than those of the University Interscholastic League.

JCP1984, I'd say you've hit the nail on the head. It's good not to be a Lone Ranger anymore.

no set attendance zone...Galveston ball was told they cheated...and they did the exact same thing that the Jesuit schools do without punishment.

[JagDad07]

A couple of questions, if anyone knows. By the way, I went to Dallas Bishop Dunne and had many cousins go to Dallas Jesuit, so I am somewhat familiar with this issue:

1. The attendance zone thing only applied after the first season, right. Effectively, every kid not from W.T. White's attendence zone had to sit out one season (the first). Now, everyone is eligible, right? They just can't play varsity sports when they're a freshman (if they are from outside W.T. White's residency district).

2. Where does the 1600 cut-off come from for TAPPS? I looked on their website and could not find that number.

3. The potential still exists that TAPPS may change their rules and leave Bishop Lynch, Grace Prep, etc, out in the cold, and then they could apply for UIL membership per the UIL Constitution (Ch. 1, Sub Ch. D, Section 12(d)).

[Drake]

These are the rules for Private School participation in UIL:

(d) PRIVATE SCHOOLS. Unless its right to participate has been suspended or revoked for violating rules or codes by another league similar to the UIL, a Texas non-public school may apply for UIL membership in the largest conference (currently 5A) provided the school meets all of the following conditions:

(1) school is accredited by the Texas Private School Accreditation Commission;

(2) school does not qualify for membership in any other organization similar to the League;

(3) school fits the following definition of a high school:

(A) A school that offers instruction in the ninth, tenth, eleventh or twelfth grades, or any combination thereof, whether all of the grades are offered instruction in the same building.

(B) A school also fits this definition if it has: Only one ninth grade, one tenth grade, one eleventh grade, and one twelfth grade. One titled official, i.e., principal, headmaster, etc., is in charge of all four grades, whether assistant principals, etc. are in charge of separate grade levels. All grades have the same school colors, mascot, song and paper. School is on an established campus with permanent class rooms.

[Miss Kitty]

I see these as the qualifications to join the UIL. But those are not all of the rules that have to be abided by once you are in the UIL. That list is endless.

[JCP1984]

Dallas Jesuit has an attendance zone, according to Jesuit's AD. The zone is the same at WT White's, the closest UIL public school. Any student in grades 9-12 that lives outside this zone can not play varsity for one year. Since Jesuit has very few transfers, this has little impact on the football program.

Yes, there are different rules between Dallas Jesuit and most UIL schools. Dallas Jesuit students must qualify academically to be admitted. Once admitted, they must take a very challenging course load. There are no remedial/slow tracks offered at Dallas Jesuit. Dallas Jesuit students must pay over $10,000 a year to go to Jesuit. Even those qualifying for financial aid must pay something and must perform 100 work grant hours a year. UIL students pay nothing, except the taxes they and their private school parents also pay. Dallas jesuit students have to take more classes each semester. They do not have block scheduling, so their sport-specific pe periods are shorter than other UIL schools. Dallas Jesuit has fewer coaches, no feeder schools and feeder coaches, and they are paid less. The rules are different and, trust me, the UIL has the advantage.

I am willing to bet that no other private school will ever join the UIL. And, I'm also willing to bet Dallas Jesuit follows UIL rules better than all other UIL schools. This is getting old, and I understand why many of the Jesuit coaches avoid this topic. Too many folks believe what they want to believe without really knowing the facts. I attended many Jesuit football games these past two seasons, and I did not see an unfair advantage. And, if Jesuit is recruiting, they are bad at it. They have good kids, little speed, and average athletes. They compete because they overachieve and work hard. I asked an assistant coach how many kids will sign 1A scholarships next week, and he said maybe two: an OL who will probably go to Harvard but who has been offered by SMU, and a deep snapper who's been offered by BC and Iowa State. I know they had two sign 1A schoalrships last year (Tulane and Iowa State) and another who chose not to accept a late offer from Indiana. Of the five boys, all came from private grade schools. And, all five did not ever receive financial aid. And, all five went to Jesuit for all four years. So, those five were not recruited and did not have an unfair advantage. And, all five scored over 1120 on the SAT. Wouldn't the school have been recruiting and cheating when they were not in any league? No one was watching back when these boys were in 8th grade. Everyone is watching now.

I hope the Jesuits never make me eat my words. And, I feel confident that they won't.

[dragonsdaddy]

Dallas Jesuit has an attendance zone, according to Jesuit's AD. The zone is the same at WT White's, the closest UIL public school. Any student in grades 9-12 that lives outside this zone can not play varsity for one year. Since Jesuit has very few transfers, this has little impact on the football program.

Yes, there are different rules between Dallas Jesuit and most UIL schools. Dallas Jesuit students must qualify academically to be admitted. Once admitted, they must take a very challenging course load. There are no remedial/slow tracks offered at Dallas Jesuit. Dallas Jesuit students must pay over $10,000 a year to go to Jesuit. Even those qualifying for financial aid must pay something and must perform 100 work grant hours a year. UIL students pay nothing, except the taxes they and their private school parents also pay. Dallas jesuit students have to take more classes each semester. They do not have block scheduling, so their sport-specific pe periods are shorter than other UIL schools. Dallas Jesuit has fewer coaches, no feeder schools and feeder coaches, and they are paid less. The rules are different and, trust me, the UIL has the advantage.

I am willing to bet that no other private school will ever join the UIL. And, I'm also willing to bet Dallas Jesuit follows UIL rules better than all other UIL schools. This is getting old, and I understand why many of the Jesuit coaches avoid this topic. Too many folks believe what they want to believe without really knowing the facts. I attended many Jesuit football games these past two seasons, and I did not see an unfair advantage. And, if Jesuit is recruiting, they are bad at it. They have good kids, little speed, and average athletes. They compete because they overachieve and work hard. I asked an assistant coach how many kids will sign 1A scholarships next week, and he said maybe two: an OL who will probably go to Harvard but who has been offered by SMU, and a deep snapper who's been offered by BC and Iowa State. I know they had two sign 1A schoalrships last year (Tulane and Iowa State) and another who chose not to accept a late offer from Indiana. Of the five boys, all came from private grade schools. And, all five did not ever receive financial aid. And, all five went to Jesuit for all four years. So, those five were not recruited and did not have an unfair advantage. And, all five scored over 1120 on the SAT. Wouldn't the school have been recruiting and cheating when they were not in any league? No one was watching back when these boys were in 8th grade. Everyone is watching now.

I hope the Jesuits never make me eat my words. And, I feel confident that they won't.
if you are willing to bet that, i wonder how you explain away all the privates in with publics in other states. all it will take is another shark snapping at the uil and they'll fold up just like they did with this issue.

[Drake]

I see these as the qualifications to join the UIL. But those are not all of the rules that have to be abided by once you are in the UIL. That list is endless.True. The most important one is you CAN'T RECRUIT. As long as that one is adhered to, there shouldn't be any problems in public or private schools...

[gburgtiger]

Dallas Jesuit has an attendance zone, according to Jesuit's AD. The zone is the same at WT White's, the closest UIL public school. Any student in grades 9-12 that lives outside this zone can not play varsity for one year. Since Jesuit has very few transfers, this has little impact on the football program.

Yes, there are different rules between Dallas Jesuit and most UIL schools. Dallas Jesuit students must qualify academically to be admitted. Once admitted, they must take a very challenging course load. There are no remedial/slow tracks offered at Dallas Jesuit. Dallas Jesuit students must pay over $10,000 a year to go to Jesuit. Even those qualifying for financial aid must pay something and must perform 100 work grant hours a year. UIL students pay nothing, except the taxes they and their private school parents also pay. Dallas jesuit students have to take more classes each semester. They do not have block scheduling, so their sport-specific pe periods are shorter than other UIL schools. Dallas Jesuit has fewer coaches, no feeder schools and feeder coaches, and they are paid less. The rules are different and, trust me, the UIL has the advantage.So what does that have to do with the UIL rules? The UIL didn't require jesuit students to take a heavier course load the Jesuits require the jesuits to have a heavier course load.

I am willing to bet that no other private school will ever join the UIL. And, I'm also willing to bet Dallas Jesuit follows UIL rules better than all other UIL schools. This is getting old, and I understand why many of the Jesuit coaches avoid this topic. Too many folks believe what they want to believe without really knowing the facts. I attended many Jesuit football games these past two seasons, and I did not see an unfair advantage. And, if Jesuit is recruiting, they are bad at it. They have good kids, little speed, and average athletes. They compete because they overachieve and work hard. I asked an assistant coach how many kids will sign 1A scholarships next week, and he said maybe two: an OL who will probably go to Harvard but who has been offered by SMU, and a deep snapper who's been offered by BC and Iowa State. I know they had two sign 1A schoalrships last year (Tulane and Iowa State) and another who chose not to accept a late offer from Indiana. Of the five boys, all came from private grade schools. And, all five did not ever receive financial aid. And, all five went to Jesuit for all four years. So, those five were not recruited and did not have an unfair advantage. And, all five scored over 1120 on the SAT. Wouldn't the school have been recruiting and cheating when they were not in any league? No one was watching back when these boys were in 8th grade. Everyone is watching now.

I hope the Jesuits never make me eat my words. And, I feel confident that they won't.

I bet the jesuits are very diligent in following their rules...I and don't think they will recruit...but I still think there is an unfair advantage to not having an attendance zone. Which is a different rule than what the public schools have to follow

[The Lone Ranger]

I bet the jesuits are very diligent in following their rules...I and don't think they will recruit...but I still think there is an unfair advantage to not having an attendance zone. Which is a different rule than what the public schools have to follow

We follow the same rule as public magnet schools... since we don't have a definite attendance zone, we're forced to participate in the largest classification, 5A (magnet schools only have to participate in the classification of the largest school in their district). Strake Jesuit has only 850 boys, which is a 4A number. But because they come from all over Greater Houston, they are punished by participating in 5A.

Dallas Talented and Gifted Magnet has an enrollment of 160. But they participate in 5A for Spring Meet.

Students from outside Houston ISD can attend HISD's Performing and Visual Arts Magnet. That's why they must participate in 5A.

The one thing I don't think is fair is that open-enrollment charter schools DON'T have to play 5A. They have big attendance zones, yet aren't forced to play up. Why is this? Why the double standard with private/magnet schools and charter schools?

[dragonfootballfan]

We follow the same rule as public magnet schools... since we don't have a definite attendance zone, we're forced to participate in the largest classification, 5A (magnet schools only have to participate in the classification of the largest school in their district). Strake Jesuit has only 850 boys, which is a 4A number. But because they come from all over Greater Houston, they are punished by participating in 5A.

Dallas Talented and Gifted Magnet has an enrollment of 160. But they participate in 5A for Spring Meet.

Students from outside Houston ISD can attend HISD's Performing and Visual Arts Magnet. That's why they must participate in 5A.

The one thing I don't think is fair is that open-enrollment charter schools DON'T have to play 5A. They have big attendance zones, yet aren't forced to play up. Why is this? Why the double standard with private/magnet schools and charter schools?I think when counting the number of students at a private high school they need to take into account all of the people that apply to go to that school. All of those kids that apply could potentially be on the football team.

[Drake]

I think when counting the number of students at a private high school they need to take into account all of the people that apply to go to that school. All of those kids that apply could potentially be on the football team.I see your reasoning but why would that be necessary? They're already required to play in the highest classification...

[The Lone Ranger]

There is nothing you could do to even out our "advantages." We're already at the highest classification.

What do you want us to do, play with 10 men? It's not like we're destroying the competition. In football, each team made the playoffs one year, and had a dismal season the other.

[dragonfootballfan]

I see your reasoning but why would that be necessary? They're already required to play in the highest classification...
he was questioning why with 4A numbers a private school would be required to play in 5A.

[JCP1984]

This is too funny. I believe there are over 40 Jesuit high schools in the nation. Some are traditional powers in their respective states, and some are not. You assume the ones that are powers must be cheating. Couldn't the same assumption be made of traditional public schools? Again, this is what I know: Dallas Jesuit does not cheat. They do not accept public school transfers after ninth grade. They do not give athletic scholarships. They are at a severe disadvantage in football. They did well in '04 and not very good in '05. They are not as good as SL Carroll, and believe it not, I don't think too many Jesuit folks care. They want them to be competitive, and they are. Believe it or not, the school cares more about academics than it does state football titles. Strange, I guess, to folks who have different priorities.

[dragonfootballfan]

This is too funny. I believe there are over 40 Jesuit high schools in the nation. Some are traditional powers in their respective states, and some are not. You assume the ones that are powers must be cheating. Couldn't the same assumption be made of traditional public schools? Again, this is what I know: Dallas Jesuit does not cheat. They do not accept public school transfers after ninth grade. They do not give athletic scholarships. They are at a severe disadvantage in football. They did well in '04 and not very good in '05. They are not as good as SL Carroll, and believe it not, I don't think too many Jesuit folks care. They want them to be competitive, and they are. Believe it or not, the school cares more about academics than it does state football titles. Strange, I guess, to folks who have different priorities.
Most people care more about academics than football. This is a football board where most of the issues discussed are football related. You assume that since most people on this board are talking about football that they do not care about academics. That is not the case. Most people that post on this board are inteligent and know that the reason why you attend a school is for an education, not to be on a football team. If you want to discuss academics do not do it on a board devoted to football.

[bullrock]

If all that is true, then why participate in the UIL? If you think you're at a disadvantage, go back to where you came from. I'm probably the biggest supporter of keeping the schools separated on this board. I don't mind telling you I hate the idea and I will NEVER attend a UIL game in which a private school participates. Whine all you want about being cheated. We didn't ask you to come here, we didn't choose for you to send Johnny to private school, we don't think you're kids are any better than ours...do I need to say anymore?? I could have sent my kids to private schools. In my opinion they could have aced their curriculum too. But I look at history and what segregation has created in the past. Have you ever heard of Hitler??? the superme ruler of the best and brightest on earth. He too thought all of his little johnnies were better than the rest of the world until the rest of the worlds dumbies got a belly full of him. I better quit. My blood pressure is elevating.:mad:

[dragonfootballfan]

If all that is true, then why participate in the UIL? If you think you're at a disadvantage, go back to where you came from. I'm probably the biggest supporter of keeping the schools separated on this board. I don't mind telling you I hate the idea and I will NEVER attend a UIL game in which a private school participates. Whine all you want about being cheated. We didn't ask you to come here, we didn't choose for you to send Johnny to private school, we don't think you're kids are any better than ours...do I need to say anymore?? I could have sent my kids to private schools. In my opinion they could have aced their curriculum too. But I look at history and what segregation has created in the past. Have you ever heard of Hitler??? the superme ruler of the best and brightest on earth. He too thought all of his little johnnies were better than the rest of the world until the rest of the worlds dumbies got a belly full of him. I better quit. My blood pressure is elevating.:mad:
Hitler analogies have no place anywhere. I suggest you edit your post.

[Miss Kitty]

If all that is true, then why participate in the UIL? If you think you're at a disadvantage, go back to where you came from. I'm probably the biggest supporter of keeping the schools separated on this board. I don't mind telling you I hate the idea and I will NEVER attend a UIL game in which a private school participates. Whine all you want about being cheated. We didn't ask you to come here, we didn't choose for you to send Johnny to private school, we don't think you're kids are any better than ours...do I need to say anymore?? I could have sent my kids to private schools. In my opinion they could have aced their curriculum too. But I look at history and what segregation has created in the past. Have you ever heard of Hitler??? the superme ruler of the best and brightest on earth. He too thought all of his little johnnies were better than the rest of the world until the rest of the worlds dumbies got a belly full of him. I better quit. My blood pressure is elevating.:mad:


Calm down Bull....we want to keep you around on the board. I admire your conviction.

[Miss Kitty]

This is too funny. I believe there are over 40 Jesuit high schools in the nation. Some are traditional powers in their respective states, and some are not. You assume the ones that are powers must be cheating. Couldn't the same assumption be made of traditional public schools? Again, this is what I know: Dallas Jesuit does not cheat. They do not accept public school transfers after ninth grade. They do not give athletic scholarships. They are at a severe disadvantage in football. They did well in '04 and not very good in '05. They are not as good as SL Carroll, and believe it not, I don't think too many Jesuit folks care. They want them to be competitive, and they are. Believe it or not, the school cares more about academics than it does state football titles. Strange, I guess, to folks who have different priorities.


I don't think anyone on here has actually accused either school of cheating in Athletics. Most of the comments made are open ended possibilities of what could happen. I don't believe anyone is "assuming" they have cheated. They are just pointing out that all rules should apply to all schools participating in the UIL as the rules are written by the UIL. It is not fair to slap down a public school for doing something and then letting a private school do the same and it be okay. Not when they are playing in the same league for the same state title. And of course the concern is if the UIL caved on this, then what is next.

[gburgtiger]

We follow the same rule as public magnet schools... but public magnet school's rules have changed...even since 1999. I have two examples below.since we don't have a definite attendance zone, we're forced to participate in the largest classification, 5A (magnet schools only have to participate in the classification of the largest school in their district). Strake Jesuit has only 850 boys, which is a 4A number. But because they come from all over Greater Houston, they are punished by participating in 5A.

Dallas Talented and Gifted Magnet has an enrollment of 160. But they participate in 5A for Spring Meet.

Students from outside Houston ISD can attend HISD's Performing and Visual Arts Magnet. That's why they must participate in 5A.

The one thing I don't think is fair is that open-enrollment charter schools DON'T have to play 5A. They have big attendance zones, yet aren't forced to play up. Why is this? Why the double standard with private/magnet schools and charter schools?

My little sister was very interested in attending HSPVA but they told her she would not be able to participate in the sport she was involved in because she lived outside of the hisd zone.

I have a very close friend that went to HSPVA and lived in Clear Lake...she had to list her address as her aunts house inside HISD and further more her parents had to sign over gaurdianship to her aunt so that she still "resided" with her legal gaurdian inside the HISD zone. then the uil had to change the rules due to litigation from an unamed outside source and magnet schools now have the same rules as privates.

[Miss Kitty]

The HSPVA for outside HISD rule now is that you can audition and if you make it you will be "placed" as space allows. So HISD residents get first opportunity.

[JCP1984]

The assumption is that Dallas Jesuit will one day recruit and cheat to build a football power. This assumption is wrong. Dallas Jesuit has no place to "go abck to." Their league folded. The other big private schools went to TAPPS. The TCIL was left with two schools. The jesuit schools wanted a good, competitive league for their student-atahletes. The UIl was that league. Jesuit is very happy in the UIL, and the UIL is very happy with Jesuit. The only people complaining are you all. The reason I said what I said about academics is to point out that Jesuit will not change because of football. I am sorry I made someone very angry. I just wish people would realize that there is very little difference between Dallas Jesuit and a good, suburban public school. Although there are differences, they are not such that either has an unfair advantage. It is a shame you will not attend a public-private game. You are missing out, and that is your loss.

[farmerfan]

This is too funny. I believe there are over 40 Jesuit high schools in the nation. Some are traditional powers in their respective states, and some are not. You assume the ones that are powers must be cheating. Couldn't the same assumption be made of traditional public schools? Again, this is what I know: Dallas Jesuit does not cheat. They do not accept public school transfers after ninth grade. They do not give athletic scholarships. They are at a severe disadvantage in football. They did well in '04 and not very good in '05. They are not as good as SL Carroll, and believe it not, I don't think too many Jesuit folks care. They want them to be competitive, and they are. Believe it or not, the school cares more about academics than it does state football titles. Strange, I guess, to folks who have different priorities.


Bullrck
You have brought up a point I try to to so many others, and that is if it doesnt matter then why joing. They never answer that question because they know it is about football.


JCP
Like I said above and bullrock already addressed, if it is not about football, then why bother playing in a league? what does it matter if you get to compete for championships or not? If the school cares more about academics then why did tey spend all that money on lawyers to sue so theycould play football rather than go out and buy new techonology or spend it on academics?
I dont think private school supportes answer this question because they know it is about football.

[gburgtiger]

The assumption is that Dallas Jesuit will one day recruit and cheat to build a football power. This assumption is wrong. Dallas Jesuit has no place to "go abck to." Their league folded. The other big private schools went to TAPPS. The TCIL was left with two schools. The jesuit schools wanted a good, competitive league for their student-atahletes. The UIl was that league. Jesuit is very happy in the UIL, and the UIL is very happy with Jesuit. The only people complaining are you all. The reason I said what I said about academics is to point out that Jesuit will not change because of football. I am sorry I made someone very angry. I just wish people would realize that there is very little difference between Dallas Jesuit and a good, suburban public school. Although there are differences, they are not such that either has an unfair advantage. It is a shame you will not attend a public-private game. You are missing out, and that is your loss.

I have never assumed that DJ or SJ have or will ever cheat. I think they have a built in advatange by the best athletes from all the private schools wanting to compete in the UIL.

and where did the UIL say that they are "very happy with the jesuits?"

[Drake]

Bullrck
You have brought up a point I try to to so many others, and that is if it doesnt matter then why joing. They never answer that question because they know it is about football.


JCP
Like I said above and bullrock already addressed, if it is not about football, then why bother playing in a league? what does it matter if you get to compete for championships or not? If the school cares more about academics then why did tey spend all that money on lawyers to sue so theycould play football rather than go out and buy new techonology or spend it on academics?
I dont think private school supportes answer this question because they know it is about football.I've only answered this 1000 times...

Don't you see that kids today, even those that put academics #1, are involved in numerous athletic endeavors growing up and if SJ was not in a league where these kids could vie for meaningful titles such as district championships and have a chance at individual honors it would diminish their likelihood of enrolling in the school? So in that sense it enhances the school.

It also makes life much easier for the coaches, who would have a very difficult time scheduling games if everyone else was in league play and the Jesuit schools had no league...

ONCE AGAIN, it is IMPORTANT to be in UIL, it's not important to dominate it...

[Drake]

If all that is true, then why participate in the UIL? If you think you're at a disadvantage, go back to where you came from. I'm probably the biggest supporter of keeping the schools separated on this board. I don't mind telling you I hate the idea and I will NEVER attend a UIL game in which a private school participates. Whine all you want about being cheated. We didn't ask you to come here, we didn't choose for you to send Johnny to private school, we don't think you're kids are any better than ours...do I need to say anymore?? I could have sent my kids to private schools. In my opinion they could have aced their curriculum too. But I look at history and what segregation has created in the past. Have you ever heard of Hitler??? the superme ruler of the best and brightest on earth. He too thought all of his little johnnies were better than the rest of the world until the rest of the worlds dumbies got a belly full of him. I better quit. My blood pressure is elevating.:mad:This is disappointing, especially the "Hitler" remark... What did that mean? And why is everything "us" or "them"? And who is the "WE" you are speaking for? You have a lot of misconceptions about people and I have no doubt you hate a lot of things, but whats up with stereotyping high school kids? I thought you were a teacher and coach?

[lonny23]

yeah they don't recruit or anything :rolleyes:
Eduardo Najera played basketball at Cornerstone, too. I don't remember how many years he played there. Even the smallest private schools recruit. There was some new school in Tyler this year that advertised a field-play turf field and how many seats they had in the stadium in the football preview in the Tyler paper. I've seen that time and time again by private schools.

[lonny23]

Just look at Arlington Grace Prep in football. What cornerstone has done is juvenile compared to Grace over the last few years. This past year alone, Grace had over 10 new transfers come to their school to play football. Their head coach Mike Barber a former Houston Oiler TE runs a prison ministry and many times has used money from that ministry to get players over to his school. TAPPS actually placed Grace Prep on probation in 2001 where they could not participate in the playoffs and gave Coach Barber a one year suspension. He has come back and nothing has changed. He gets kids to come over there for their junior and mainly senior years. I know that one of the kids on their current team got kicked out of a Ft Worth private school as well as a public school.
This past year alone they had players show up from Arlington Martin, Wilmer Hutchins, Arlingon Heights, Weatherford, Eastern Hills and a few other public schools. So they come from all over the metroplex and play at Grace for only a year. The WR Lance Legget who is at Miami came to Grace for a year, he came from Florida, played a year and went to Miami where he is a starting WR. It really is a corrupt world in private schools, looking back their are more hypocrites in TAPPS and other private schools than you will ever see in the public schools.
I thought Barber got in trouble one time. He's a nice guy and my mom got him to autograph one of his old football cards for me one time, but I did always question how legitimately he was doing with his players.

[lonny23]

Calm down Bull....we want to keep you around on the board. I admire your conviction.
1. The privates recruit.
2. Some kids are in private schools for segregation.
3. Some are there because they got kicked out of other schools.
4. Some are looking to succeed at sports.
5. The lead banner on the forum hates privates in the UIL, so Bull is pretty safe!:D

[Drake]

Lonny, you seem too intellectual to write such a lowbrow post. Painting an entire group with the same brush based on your knowledge of or experience with a few is beneath your thinking level, or so it seemed. I mean, this IS a 5A board, so I can only assume you're lumping the two UIL 5A private schools into those stereotypes... By doing so you basically said:

1. The Jesuit schools in UIL recruit. You're wrong.
2. Some kids are in the Jesuit schools for segregation. You're wrong again and such a statement is so unnecessary.
3. Some are at the Jesuit schools because they got kicked out of other schools. I'd bet my life you're wrong on this one.
4. Some are looking to succeed at sports. Most of the the Jesuit students look to succeed in EVERYTHING they do.
5. The lead banner (KT2000?) on the forum hates privates in the UIL, so Bull is pretty safe! Applying his rules based on his like or dislike of a person's opinion seems beneath him, but I thought some of what you said was beneath you... I guess you never know.

[farmerfan]

I've only answered this 1000 times...

Don't you see that kids today, even those that put academics #1, are involved in numerous athletic endeavors growing up and if SJ was not in a league where these kids could vie for meaningful titles such as district championships and have a chance at individual honors it would diminish their likelihood of enrolling in the school? So in that sense it enhances the school.

It also makes life much easier for the coaches, who would have a very difficult time scheduling games if everyone else was in league play and the Jesuit schools had no league...

ONCE AGAIN, it is IMPORTANT to be in UIL, it's not important to dominate it...


it was more for JCP, however choices are what we live and die by. I only wish some of the choices I made in my past I could get lawyers tofix it.
It is about athletics because it is wasnt competing in a district would not matter. I never heard the jesuits use the excuse of not having a academic leaguet or competitions to compete in as a excuse for joining, it was strictly because of athletics.

[Drake]

Okay, I'll amend what I said...

It is IMPORTANT for the Jesuit schools to be in UIL ATHLETICS, it's not important to dominate them...

[Miss Kitty]

1. The privates recruit.
2. Some kids are in private schools for segregation.
3. Some are there because they got kicked out of other schools.
4. Some are looking to succeed at sports.
5. The lead banner on the forum hates privates in the UIL, so Bull is pretty safe!:D


I was talking about his blood pressure silly man. :D

[Amused]

Bullrock, based on what your post said, your blood pressure should be elevating. You sound like an idiot.

[LoneRocket]

We follow the same rule as public magnet schools... since we don't have a definite attendance zone, we're forced to participate in the largest classification, 5A (magnet schools only have to participate in the classification of the largest school in their district). Strake Jesuit has only 850 boys, which is a 4A number. But because they come from all over Greater Houston, they are punished by participating in 5A.

Dallas Talented and Gifted Magnet has an enrollment of 160. But they participate in 5A for Spring Meet.

Students from outside Houston ISD can attend HISD's Performing and Visual Arts Magnet. That's why they must participate in 5A.

The one thing I don't think is fair is that open-enrollment charter schools DON'T have to play 5A. They have big attendance zones, yet aren't forced to play up. Why is this? Why the double standard with private/magnet schools and charter schools?
Actually there are schools with magnet programs that compete in levels other than 5A. I do not think charter schools participate in the UIL.

[The Lone Ranger]

Actually there are schools with magnet programs that compete in levels other than 5A. I do not think charter schools participate in the UIL.

Magnet schools participate in the level as the largest school in their district.

Dallas ISD's magnets play in 5A because the largest school in DISD (Skyline, which has an extensive magnet program itself) is 5A.

A magnet school in McKinney ISD would be 4A. A magnet school in Clint ISD would be 4A. Waco's magnet schools will move down to 4A because there aren't any 5A schools in Waco ISD anymore.

There are many charter schools in the UIL. Some examples include Dallas A+ Academy, Dallas Life Oak Cliff, San Antonio Gervin, Donna Idea, Bryan Eagle... the list goes on and on.

[The Lone Ranger]

1. The privates recruit.
2. Some kids are in private schools for segregation.
3. Some are there because they got kicked out of other schools.
4. Some are looking to succeed at sports.
5. The lead banner on the forum hates privates in the UIL, so Bull is pretty safe!:D

1. No, "The Privates" don't recruit. That statement sounds like you're saying that EVERY private school recruits. That statement is a flat out lie. I GUARANTEE you, Dallas Jesuit does not recruit. Regardless of what you might think, we don't. I'm not that familiar with Strake Jesuit, but I'd bet that they don't recruit either.

2. Very few kids are at Dallas Jesuit because they want to get away from other races. Jesuit has a Director of Diversity who runs our Multicultural Student Union. We have a program here called "Reverse Integration" where white kids join clubs such as Latinos Unidos, African American Awareness, and the Asian Student Union. 25% of our students are non-white. Kids might go to Jesuit because it's a better school than what public school offers (after 9 years in Dallas ISD, I assure you it is). Dallas ISD is only 6% Caucasian, but I assure you that's not the reason kids choose to come to Jesuit. If DISD had decent schools (they have an excellent magnet program, but the neighborhood comprehensive high schools are sub-par), then kids would want to attend. Until then they'll go to private school.

3. If a student got kicked out of another school, Jesuit wouldn't accept him. It's as simple as that. I can't think of a single non-military school that would accept a student who was kicked out of another school. My class at Jesuit started with 268. We lost several students last year, for problems ranging from theft to public intoxication to selling drugs. Jesuit is not a school for students who were kicked out of another school, and I can't think of any private school that is. Students who get kicked out of private school go to public school. Students who get kicked out of public school go to alternative school, not private school.

4. Yes, some students choose private schools for their sports programs. It was simple...no school in Dallas ISD that had the academics I needed offered sports. Jesuit did. Jesuit's sports program is the best all-around private school program in the state, but it doesn't compare to many public schools. Very few kids choose Jesuit for sports. They may choose some other schools, but if a kid said during his interview that he wanted to go to Jesuit mainly for the sports, that kid wouldn't be going to Jesuit.

5. Regardless of whether someone hates privates or not, mature people don't compare things to Hitler. Jesuit is not Hitler. Saddam Hussein is Hitler. Hitler is Hitler. Osama bin Laden is Hitler. Regardless of how much you dislike private schools (envy can come out in many ways), it's uncalled for to compare them to Hitler.

Jesuit doesn't even offer German language class. Now, how could we be Hitler?

[dragonfootballfan]

5. Regardless of whether someone hates privates or not, mature people don't compare things to Hitler. Jesuit is not Hitler. Saddam Hussein is Hitler. Hitler is Hitler. Osama bin Laden is Hitler. Regardless of how much you dislike private schools (envy can come out in many ways), it's uncalled for to compare them to Hitler.

Jesuit doesn't even offer German language class. Now, how could we be Hitler?
No more Hitler references. They are not necessary and are never appropriate. Hitler was so evil that to compare him to anybody is not only an insult to everyone, but an insult to Hitler's evilness.

[LoneRocket]

Magnet schools participate in the level as the largest school in their district.

Dallas ISD's magnets play in 5A because the largest school in DISD (Skyline, which has an extensive magnet program itself) is 5A.

A magnet school in McKinney ISD would be 4A. A magnet school in Clint ISD would be 4A. Waco's magnet schools will move down to 4A because there aren't any 5A schools in Waco ISD anymore.

There are many charter schools in the UIL. Some examples include Dallas A+ Academy, Dallas Life Oak Cliff, San Antonio Gervin, Donna Idea, Bryan Eagle... the list goes on and on.
Then why up in Austin does LBJ which has a magnet program plays in 4A while Austin ISD has 5A schools? I believe that also Johnston which is also 4A had a magnet program was playing 4A ball. Your magnet theory does not apply, do those charter schools play UIL 11 man football or just 6man and 1A football?

[DiamondJ2]

Private schools do recruit. Students do attend private schools for segregation reasons. Students who have been kicked out of public schools have enrolled in private schools with parents hoping the stricter discipline will help their child mature and get an education. students will attend private schools for athletic purposes, if nothing more so they can participate.

Do all of the above apply to the Jesuit schools, some, but not all. Each one of the above does apply to private schools and to public schools as well.

[The Lone Ranger]

Then why up in Austin does LBJ which has a magnet program plays in 4A while Austin ISD has 5A schools? I believe that also Johnston which is also 4A had a magnet program was playing 4A ball. Your magnet theory does not apply, do those charter schools play UIL 11 man football or just 6man and 1A football?

There is a fine line between a "magnet program" and a "magnet school." A school which is entirely magnet, such as the schools at Dallas ISD's Townview Center, must participate in 5A.

A school with a magnet program, but which still has a neighborhood school, is not under these restrictions. That's why Dallas' Lincoln High School, which has a communications magnet, isn't in 5A. That's probably the case for the AISD schools.

2 charter schools play football (1 may have been suspended by the UIL, I'm not sure). They are Dallas I Am That I Am (21-1A) and Dallas A+ (14-2A). Several other schools play 2A basketball: Dallas Life Oak Cliff (14), Beaumont Eagle (24), Houston Yes College Prep (26), Houston Jesse Jackson Academy (26), San Antonio Gervin Academy (28), and Donna Idea Academy (32).

[The Lone Ranger]

Private schools do recruit. Students do attend private schools for segregation reasons. Students who have been kicked out of public schools have enrolled in private schools with parents hoping the stricter discipline will help their child mature and get an education. students will attend private schools for athletic purposes, if nothing more so they can participate.

Do all of the above apply to the Jesuit schools, some, but not all. Each one of the above does apply to private schools and to public schools as well.

Yes, but the schools can't control students attending for athletic purposes or to get away from other races.

I can't see why a student would go to Jesuit for athletic reasons. NONE of our sports teams are the best in the Metroplex. Many of our students come from wealthy areas such as Plano and Southlake. The Plano schools are better than us at a lot of sports, and Southlake Carroll is also good in just about many sports.

I really don't think that very many students choose to attend Jesuit over a public school for athletic reasons. Athletics may help influence students to choose what private school they want to attend, but success in athletics usually follows money, and most of our students live in wealthy areas where the publics are good at sports. Very few public schools don't offer sports...DISD's magnet schools are an exception.

Jesuit does our best to ensure diversity. We have a very active minority student population, and encourage many minority students at Catholic schools to apply to Jesuit (our athletic department has nothing to do with this). We can't control why a student chooses to attend the school. But just so you know, most "segregation academies" usually have the words "Baptist" or "Christian" attached to their names.

As for recruitment and accepting students with disciplinary problems, neither applies to Jesuit.

So though Lonny's list may apply to some private schools, none apply to the administrations of Jesuit College Prep or Strake Jesuit College Prep, or to many (if any) of the schools' students.

[Roughrider]

Bullrock, based on what your post said, your blood pressure should be elevating. You sound like an idiot.


Another "Silver Spoon" ripping on someone that doesn't agree with their "opinions"!!! Get a lawyer and sue him:rolleyes: