Pro Style Offenses

[KT2000]

The spread offense and different versions of it are the "fad of the moment" in Class 5A right now. However, I'm still surprised I don't see more programs running more pro style schemes because of their flexibility between the run and pass. The last few years, it seems like most programs are either spread or option.

Katy and Copperas Cove were the only programs I saw all year that ran a strong version of a pro style attack. Katy has based its offense from the same multiple I formations since the early-mid 80s. Tyler Lee has also done extremely well with it. North Shore has also used some pro style influences in their offense.

I bring this up because the playaction game, and actually having roster spots for fullbacks/tight ends seems to be a lost art on the HS level. I think pro style schemes suit high school programs very well because they are so flexible. That's obviously key because an HS coach can't dictate who steps on campus in the way a college or pro coach can.

I've always been a little shocked more programs don't use a version of a pro style attack instead of being either spread or option based.

[dragonsdaddy]

The spread offense and different versions of it are the "fad of the moment" in Class 5A right now. However, I'm still surprised I don't see more programs running more pro style schemes because of their flexibility between the run and pass.

Katy and Copperas Cove were the only programs I saw all year that ran a strong version of a pro style attack. Katy has based its offense from the same multiple I formations since the early-mid 80s. Tyler Lee has also run it extremely well.

I bring this up because the playaction game, and actually having roster spots for fullbacks/tight ends seems to be a lost art on the HS level. I think pro style schemes suit high school programs very well because they are so flexible. That's obviously key because an HS coach can't dictate who steps on campus in the way a college or pro coach can.

I've always been a little shocked more programs don't use it.
the te/fb question has been answered recently, with the only absolute use being in short yardage and on the goalline. chasing a db out of the play is an effective blocking tool. chasing 4 out is even better. pro-styles don't lead to option games as well. it obviously is an effective offense, with the right tools. there will always be successful pro-style teams.

[Drake]

Don't know too much about the why's and what for's, but did notice that all 4 of the NFL semifinalists work primarily from under center... That leads me to believe that the spread is easier to stop if you have the personnel. Perhaps the spread is more effective against HS teams because you can't hide your defensive weaknesses as easily and it's tough to field a HS defense that doesn't have weakness somewhere... <shrug>

[KT2000]

The spread is designed in part to force defense to make a lot of one on one plays. Most high school defenses don't have the discipline or talent to consistently stop a well executed spread team because it forces more one on ones. Finding really good spread players in HS is even tougher. Obviously, pros know how to cover, pursue and tackle much better so the "fun 'n gun" schemes don't usually cut it at that level.

[dragonfootballfan]

As the players continue to get faster and stronger at the high school level a shift to pro style offenses is coming.

[badger95]

Westlake runs a pro-style offense and had tremendous success, offensively.

It was our defense that was a liability.

[blueraiders11]

i personally am a fan of the pro style offense but you have to have the line and backs to run it. just like any other offense, you have to have the personel to do so. but in madden and games like that i always run pro offenses and run the ball a lot.

but the only place you really see the spread offense a lot is 5-5a where every team used it, every other district had a couple but not every single team

[drgnbkr]

i personally am a fan of the pro style offense but you have to have the line and backs to run it. just like any other offense, you have to have the personel to do so. but in madden and games like that i always run pro offenses and run the ball a lot.

but the only place you really see the spread offense a lot is 5-5a where every team used it, every other district had a couple but not every single team

I guess it (the spread) works pretty well for the 5-5A teams, especially Carroll & Denton Ryan, who have clearly won more games than any other 2 teams from any district anywhere the past 4 years...

[VB Pack Fan]

The spread is hard to defend for high school because cornerback is the hardest position in football. As one poster said ,it takes a lot of skill on the defensive side. The spread is nothing more that a scale down "run& shoot" and we all know how good it wasn,t at the pro level. Lufkin has use this offense since 2001 and has been good in that time span. I myself would like to see the pro style use more because it gets the kids ready sooner for the next level of play. Tech uses a version of the spread also, or I assume that is what it is, but you see that they can,t win it all with that type offense.I think the original version was invented by Jerry Rice,s former college coach Achie Cooley,if you see some of his films IN college you will see that offense, early 80,s.

[blueraiders11]

I guess it (the spread) works pretty well for the 5-5A teams, especially Carroll & Denton Ryan, who have clearly won more games than any other 2 teams from any district anywhere the past 4 years...

Exactly.. two teams that have the personel to do so. At the playoff games I was impressed by Denton Ryan's speed which I did not think they would have, everyone saw what Southlake could do. But it doesn't go without the expense of growing pains... wondering how successful DR/SLC was in their first years of the spread? It's pretty complicated, going from a run-heavy team to a spread is tough. We couldn't quite put it together this year but we definatley had the personel, and we showed signs of how great it could be. Red zone percentage killed us, Correct me if I am wrong I believe we were dead last in the district in red zone percentage but #2 in trips inside the red zone behind Trinity. It takes time to learn, but once its down it can be deadly.

[dragonfootballfan]

Exactly.. two teams that have the personel to do so. At the playoff games I was impressed by Denton Ryan's speed which I did not think they would have, everyone saw what Southlake could do. But it doesn't go without the expense of growing pains... wondering how successful DR/SLC was in their first years of the spread? It's pretty complicated, going from a run-heavy team to a spread is tough. We couldn't quite put it together this year but we definatley had the personel, and we showed signs of how great it could be. Red zone percentage killed us, Correct me if I am wrong I believe we were dead last in the district in red zone percentage but #2 in trips inside the red zone behind Trinity. It takes time to learn, but once its down it can be deadly.
Carroll's first year in the shotgun spread they went 16-0 and won a 5A state championship. Carroll's first year in the run and shoot spread they went 9-5 and made it 4 rounds deep in the 4A playoffs.

[drgnbkr]

Carroll's first year in the shotgun spread they went 16-0 and won a 5A state championship. Carroll's first year in the run and shoot spread they went 9-5 and made it 4 rounds deep in the 4A playoffs.

Carroll had a good transition from the option days to todays spread beginning in 98 with Nathan Chandler at QB. Tom Rapp, head coach, was wise enough to adapt from the old "pound it out" style to a more pass oriented game. Made it to the semis against Stephenville and lost on a last minute pass from Kellen Luker to Cody Cardwell..one of the best games I've seen..they (s-ville) went on to demolish Bay City or LaMarque...The rest is history...Rapp was here one more year & then Coach Dodge arrived. I think if you look closely at Indianapolis, you will see a lot of similarities to the offense run at Carroll...so it is definately not a run & gun offense...that was all throw, all the time..the spread, when run properly, is the pass setting up the run...flooding the defense with more challenges than they can cope with...

[farmerfan]

Carroll had a good transition from the option days to todays spread beginning in 98 with Nathan Chandler at QB. Tom Rapp, head coach, was wise enough to adapt from the old "pound it out" style to a more pass oriented game. Made it to the semis against Stephenville and lost on a last minute pass from Kellen Luker to Cody Cardwell..one of the best games I've seen..they (s-ville) went on to demolish Bay City or LaMarque...The rest is history...Rapp was here one more year & then Coach Dodge arrived. I think if you look closely at Indianapolis, you will see a lot of similarities to the offense run at Carroll...so it is definately not a run & gun offense...that was all throw, all the time..the spread, when run properly, is the pass setting up the run...flooding the defense with more challenges than they can cope with...


They beat La Marque I believe 38-7 at TX Stadium. The 98 Stephenville remains the best Stephenville team I have ever seen. They lost to Brownwood that year and everyone in the state was talking about a rematch between Stephenville and The "Wood". Brownwood got upset in the second round by WF Hirschi 23-21 to finish 11-1.
I felt on that afternoon Carroll had outplayed Stphenville and had it not been for some bonehead coaching moves would have won state that year.
You are right, it ranks up there with some of the best games I have ever seen.

[FeeltheHaka]

Trinity did not run a spread offense.

A high school spread offense works so well, because high schoolers have less experience reading offenses. Also, there is an abundance of high schoolers who are built like recievers. Speaking from experience as a cornerback, and receiver; if your team runs a zone defense, then it is hard to watch so many receivers.

[drgnbkr]

They beat La Marque I believe 38-7 at TX Stadium. The 98 Stephenville remains the best Stephenville team I have ever seen. They lost to Brownwood that year and everyone in the state was talking about a rematch between Stephenville and The "Wood". Brownwood got upset in the second round by WF Hirschi 23-21 to finish 11-1.
I felt on that afternoon Carroll had outplayed Stphenville and had it not been for some bonehead coaching moves would have won state that year.
You are right, it ranks up there with some of the best games I have ever seen.

I always give Coach Rapp credit for changing his style to fit the talent he had that year..but he was a run first coach and it was all new to him..hence the "boneheaded" moves..single coverage on Cardwell on the TD was one of them...

[dragonsdaddy]

I always give Coach Rapp credit for changing his style to fit the talent he had that year..but he was a run first coach and it was all new to him..hence the "boneheaded" moves..single coverage on Cardwell on the TD was one of them...
undoubtedly the best loss in slc football history. it made dodge's move to dragonland possible.

[pack0808]

Exactly.. two teams that have the personel to do so. At the playoff games I was impressed by Denton Ryan's speed which I did not think they would have, everyone saw what Southlake could do. But it doesn't go without the expense of growing pains... wondering how successful DR/SLC was in their first years of the spread? It's pretty complicated, going from a run-heavy team to a spread is tough. We couldn't quite put it together this year but we definatley had the personel, and we showed signs of how great it could be. Red zone percentage killed us, Correct me if I am wrong I believe we were dead last in the district in red zone percentage but #2 in trips inside the red zone behind Trinity. It takes time to learn, but once its down it can be deadly.


Name any of the top 10 teams DR has faced in the 2 years they have been in 5a and tell me the results.

[farmerfan]

Name any of the top 10 teams DR has faced in the 2 years they have been in 5a and tell me the results.


what are you trying to prove here?

[farmerfan]

Exactly.. two teams that have the personel to do so. At the playoff games I was impressed by Denton Ryan's speed which I did not think they would have, everyone saw what Southlake could do. But it doesn't go without the expense of growing pains... wondering how successful DR/SLC was in their first years of the spread? It's pretty complicated, going from a run-heavy team to a spread is tough. We couldn't quite put it together this year but we definatley had the personel, and we showed signs of how great it could be. Red zone percentage killed us, Correct me if I am wrong I believe we were dead last in the district in red zone percentage but #2 in trips inside the red zone behind Trinity. It takes time to learn, but once its down it can be deadly.

The first year Ryan went to the spread they went to the state championship where they lost to Bay City. Since going to the spready Ryan has played in 27 playoff games, thats pretty impressive considering over that span the max that could have been played is 36 and 2 of those years they went to the D1 championship game. So I would say Ryan adjusted pretty well to the spread.

[protect_this_house]

Lineman don't have to be as dominant in the spread offense. Finding a quality TE & quality FB is not as easy as one would think. Placing 9 in the box in your offensive set limits the use of spacing the field. You've got to remember that as the offense spreads out, the defense must spread out also. Rule #1 for a defense is never line up beat. Spreading the field enables the offense to use spacing to create advantages in the running game, and mismatches in the passing game.

[drgnbkr]

Name any of the top 10 teams DR has faced in the 2 years they have been in 5a and tell me the results.

Pack, they beat the unbeaten, and I believe State top 5 ranked Irving Mac in the playoffs in 04..they have beaten other highly ranked teams in the playoffs also..in fact, Carroll was the only 5-A team they ever lost to in 5-A until the playoffs of this year..DR has been flat out unbeatable in 5-A

[dragonfootballfan]

Pack, they beat the unbeaten, and I believe State top 5 ranked Irving Mac in the playoffs in 04..they have beaten other highly ranked teams in the playoffs also..in fact, Carroll was the only 5-A team they ever lost to in 5-A until the playoffs of this year..DR has been flat out unbeatable in 5-A
and Fossill Ridge beat them this year too. Taking that into consideration Denton Ryan still has a resume that most teams in Texas cannot touch.

[farmerfan]

and Fossill Ridge beat them this year too. Taking that into consideration Denton Ryan still has a resume that most teams in Texas cannot touch.


exactly. This year was supposed to be the worst team in the Florences era and I would say it was, however all they did was go 7-4 losing to 2 teams who were 16-0 and another who was 10-2. Ryan has been among the elite of 5A programs over their 2 years in 5A, that is why I asked Pack what he was trying to prove with his comment of how many top 10 teams have they beat. It's to bad that Ryan is going down to 4A next year, the talent in that 9th and 10th grade class is incredible, they are going to be one awesome team the next 2-3 years.

[pack0808]

My point is they have done crap vs top teams besides little Irving Mac that always loses very early in the playoffs. They have played SLC 3 times and have been destroyed 3 times. And drgnbkr you are wrong. I was wondering why you told me that when we met but i did not say anything because i did not want to be rude and it was not a big deal. They lost 4 games last year and they lost to 5a Keller freaking Fossil Ridge right before the playoffs started and were destroyed yet again by a legit top team in Highland Park 40-14, then they went on to lose to SGP in the "1st round". Check your facts my friend you forgot Fossil Ridge. No offense just stating facts and you know your one of my boys and it is just sport's talk. FAR FAR from unbeatable in 5a. FAR FAR from an elite 5a team. I am sorry i have seen them on TV and they have not been impressive to me like i have heard. They have not beat any top notch 5a teams since joining 5a. They did not play anybody besides SLC the year before when they only lost to SLC twice in gross fashion. Do not say Irving Mac. what do they ever do in the playoffs? Sorry, I am just very unimpressed with that team since they have came up. They were absolute Gods in 4a before coming up. Yeah and they will say they just hit a down time in 5a and were better going back to 4a when they will dominate again. Just like Ennis was unbeatable until a solid 5a team beat them 2 years in a row in Garland. One was in their backyard where they supposedly never lose? That is probably a true statement when they are just playing 4a teams.

[farmerfan]

My point is they have done crap vs top teams besides little Irving Mac that always loses very early in the playoffs. They have played SLC 3 times and have been destroyed 3 times. And drgnbkr you are wrong. I was wondering why you told me that when we met but i did not say anything because i did not want to be rude and it was not a big deal. They lost 4 games last year and they lost to 5a Keller freaking Fossil Ridge right before the playoffs started and were destroyed yet again by a legit top team in Highland Park 40-14, then they went on to lose to SGP in the "1st round". Check your facts my friend you forgot Fossil Ridge. No offense just stating facts and you know your one of my boys and it is just sport's talk. FAR FAR from unbeatable in 5a. FAR FAR from an elite 5a team. I am sorry i have seen them on TV and they have not been impressive to me like i have heard. They have not beat any top notch 5a teams since joining 5a. They did not play anybody besides SLC the year before when they only lost to SLC twice in gross fashion. Do not say Irving Mac. what do they ever do in the playoffs? Sorry, I am just very unimpressed with that team since they have came up. They were absolute Gods in 4a before coming up. Yeah and they will say they just hit a down time in 5a and were better going back to 4a when they will dominate again. Just like Ennis was unbeatable until a solid 5a team beat them 2 years in a row in Garland. One was in their backyard where they supposedly never lose? That is probably a true statement when they are just playing 4a teams.

When Irving Mac plays SLC in the 1st round 3 out of four years that says something. In 2004 they were a very good football team. They lost to Ryan by something like 4 pts with the ball inside the Ryan 7 yard line as time expired. Finishing 10-1 to a tema that advances to the regional finals is not a bad season. Denton Ryan had a down team this year, they still went 7-4, trust me I know, I get to watch them every tuesday night on Denton Cable channel 25, it is a shame that they go down to 4A next year. The talent they hage coming up would comete for a state championship in 5A. How many other 5A teams have gone won 19 games in the last 2 years?

As far at the HP game goes, HP did blow them out, but I was there at Ford stadium and that game did not get out of hand untill late 3rd quarter. Ryan played them as tough as any team in the regulatr season.

I guess when you dont play the top 10 teams like Lufkin then you dont deserve to be mentioned as elitle. Face it Pack, during the Raiders two year run in 5A, they were a Power.

[pack0808]

Sorry i disagree farmer but no big deal. They beat no true 5a power since joining 5a and no true elite 5a power team has a down year in just the 2 years they were in 5a. They cannot be a power then in 5a? They were far from elite in 5a. They lost 5 games in 2 seasons and they beat no Big time power. I have to disagree. I was just not impressed with DR at the 5a level i apologize. They will go back to 4a and dominate i am sure. By the way!, Lufkin has won 28 games in the last 2 years. I consider the top 10 teams in 5a as elite and DR was not a top 10 5a team.

[jtk1519]

I watched Abilene Cooper run mostly out of a pro set offense for the better part of the last two seasons after running out of the spread for the previous 12 years. I for one will be more than happy if I never see a pro style offense again.

[farmerfan]

Sorry i disagree farmer but no big deal. They beat no true 5a power since joining 5a and no true elie 5a power team has a down year in just the 2 years they were in 5a. They cannot be a power then in 5a? They were far from elite in 5a. They lost 5 games in 2 seasons and they beat no Big time power. I have to disagree. I was just not impressed with DR at the 5a level i apologize. They will go back to 4a and dominate i am sure. By the way!, Lufkin has won 28 games in the last 2 years. I consider the top 10 teams in 5a as elite and DR was not a top 10 5a team.


then get to the metroplex and see some games. Anyone who saw I-Mac in 2004 would agree that theywere a top 10 team in the state. Denton Ryan defeated them, as well as a ver solid 10-1 Plano West team and a very good Midland team. Denton Ryan as done as much in 5a over the last two year as Lufkin as done and that is compete very stong and not win any type of decisive championship. Ryan was one of the premier programs in 5A like it or not.

[pack0808]

then get to the metroplex and see some games. Anyone who saw I-Mac in 2004 would agree that theywere a top 10 team in the state. Denton Ryan defeated them, as well as a ver solid 10-1 Plano West team and a very good Midland team. Denton Ryan as done as much in 5a over the last two year as Lufkin as done and that is compete very stong and not win any type of decisive championship. Ryan was one of the premier programs in 5A like it or not.


Again, They lost 6 5a games in 2 years and beat no true 5a power. When they have played a true power they were embarrassed. The fact's completely point in my direction. Yeah Lufkin is 28-2 only losing to SLC in the last 2 years and DR is 19-5 in the last 2 years but you say they have done as much as Lufkin in the last 2 years of 5a. I respect you farmer but you have lost a little credibility with that statement. Nothing but a metroplex biased statement and anybody with a clue about hs football would see that. To say you were stretching it with that very weak statement would be an understatement.

[farmerfan]

Again, They lost 5 5a games in 2 years and beat no true 5a power. When they have played a true power they were embarrassed. The fact's completely point in my direction. Yeah Lufkin is 28-2 only losing to SLC in the last 2 years and DR is 19-5 in the last 2 years but you say they have done as much as Lufkin in the last 2 years of 5a. I respect you farmer but you have lost a little credibility with that statement. Nothing but a metroplex biased statement and anybody with a clue about hs football would see that. To say you were stretching it with that very weak statement would be an understatement.


We are basing it all on championships, if Ryan was in any other district than the Carroll district they would have won it, they were not so they do not have a district championship. It is not a stretch to say they were among the powers, if Lufkin was in Region 1 they would not have a regional championship, if Ryan was in Region 2 they would. It all comes down to being where they are placed. It has nothing to do with metroplex bias, the fact is that both Lufkin and Ryan have zero state championships during the last 2 years. Ryan has done nothing but shown they dsereve to be mentinoned in the elite of the top 5A teams. Who is to say if they had the draw that Lufkin had the last two years and Lufking had Ryans draw that it would not be reversed? Ryan has proved to be a elite program in 5A.

[lonny23]

We are basing it all on championships, if Ryan was in any other district than the Carroll district they would have won it, they were not so they do not have a district championship. It is not a stretch to say they were among the powers, if Lufkin was in Region 1 they would not have a regional championship, if Ryan was in Region 2 they would. It all comes down to being where they are placed. It has nothing to do with metroplex bias, the fact is that both Lufkin and Ryan have zero state championships during the last 2 years. Ryan has done nothing but shown they dsereve to be mentinoned in the elite of the top 5A teams. Who is to say if they had the draw that Lufkin had the last two years and Lufking had Ryans draw that it would not be reversed? Ryan has proved to be a elite program in 5A.
DR has been a good team, but the way they lose to SLC is a negative against them. If we use SLC as a baseline, it's not crazy to say:

Lufkin has been better than DR the last 2 years.
Abilene was better last year and probably this year.
SV has been better the last 2 years.
Judson has been better the last 2 years.
Westfield has been better the last 2 years.
North Shore was better this year and probably last year.
Katy has been better the last 2 years.
Tyler Lee was better last year.
Trinity has been better the last 2 years.
SLC has been better the last 2 years.

DR is a real good team and one of the best over the last 2 years. They're not one of the 10 best teams, but they are pretty good.

[dragonsdaddy]

DR has been a good team, but the way they lose to SLC is a negative against them. If we use SLC as a baseline, it's not crazy to say:

Lufkin has been better than DR the last 2 years.
Abilene was better last year and probably this year.
SV has been better the last 2 years.
Judson has been better the last 2 years.
Westfield has been better the last 2 years.
North Shore was better this year and probably last year.
Katy has been better the last 2 years.
Tyler Lee was better last year.
Trinity has been better the last 2 years.
SLC has been better the last 2 years.

DR is a real good team and one of the best over the last 2 years. They're not one of the 10 best teams, but they are pretty good.
how can you compare how dr played slc to teams like coju and westfield who haven't. coju didn't even make the freaking po's in 04. come on, dr went 4 rds and lost to a 16-0 team only. lonny, that comparison sucks.

[lonny23]

how can you compare how dr played slc to teams like coju and westfield who haven't. coju didn't even make the freaking po's in 04. come on, dr went 4 rds and lost to a 16-0 team only. lonny, that comparison sucks.
Coju went 13-1 in 2004 and was upset by Westfield in the semis. They came back to play for a title in 2005. That Westfield bunch has a title game and semifinal appearance the last 2 years with a combined 24-3 record.

None of the teams I listed would lose to SLC by the 20-40 margins that DR did. There was nothing wrong with what I said. In 2004, Judson was beating SV by 30 midway through the 4th and won by 15 and we all know the Rangers got beat by SLC on a last-second FG.

[lonny23]

how can you compare how dr played slc to teams like coju and westfield who haven't. coju didn't even make the freaking po's in 04. come on, dr went 4 rds and lost to a 16-0 team only. lonny, that comparison sucks.
BTW, saying DR is not a top 10 team in the last 2 years is not a slap of disrespect. There are 244 teams in 5A, so they're still doing pretty good. DR was a legit 11-20 range in 2004 and somewhere between 21-50 in 2005.

[drgnbkr]

DR was probably a top five team in 04, beating IMAC and clearly overall is a top 10 team in 5-A the past 2 years....like SV, Lufkin and Abilene, just unlucky they had to play Carroll...

[dragonfootballfan]

What 5A power has Lufkin beaten in the last two years?

[ktCarl]

I guess it (the spread) works pretty well for the 5-5A teams, especially Carroll & Denton Ryan, who have clearly won more games than any other 2 teams from any district anywhere the past 4 years...

True. SLC shouldn't change their Spread Offense until it stops working for them. The same for Katy. Shouldn't change to spread while the pro-set is working for them.

[dragonsdaddy]

Coju went 13-1 in 2004 and was upset by Westfield in the semis. They came back to play for a title in 2005. That Westfield bunch has a title game and semifinal appearance the last 2 years with a combined 24-3 record.

None of the teams I listed would lose to SLC by the 20-40 margins that DR did. There was nothing wrong with what I said. In 2004, Judson was beating SV by 30 midway through the 4th and won by 15 and we all know the Rangers got beat by SLC on a last-second FG.
i'm sorry, i was thinking of the 03 rockets. my bad. you are right with the comparison, but not necessarily with the slc part.

[RidgePride]

BTW, saying DR is not a top 10 team in the last 2 years is not a slap of disrespect. There are 244 teams in 5A, so they're still doing pretty good. DR was a legit 11-20 range in 2004 and somewhere between 21-50 in 2005.
Denton Ryan was definitely a top 10 Texas team in 2004 no question. In 2005 they were still a top 11-25 team.

The only team they lost to in 2004 was Southlake Carroll. IMAC was a top 10 team and loaded with talent in 04 when DR beat them.

The only reason Ridge beat them this year is because we had the playoffs on the line and DR was already in. Ridge was a very good team towards the end of the year though.

[farmerfan]

Again, They lost 5 5a games in 2 years and beat no true 5a power. When they have played a true power they were embarrassed. The fact's completely point in my direction. Yeah Lufkin is 28-2 only losing to SLC in the last 2 years and DR is 19-5 in the last 2 years but you say they have done as much as Lufkin in the last 2 years of 5a. I respect you farmer but you have lost a little credibility with that statement. Nothing but a metroplex biased statement and anybody with a clue about hs football would see that. To say you were stretching it with that very weak statement would be an understatement.


1st
To accuse anyone of a bias is funny, you are all about East Texas and never fail to remind us of how lufkin has sent 23564895425623 guys to D1 the last few years. So dont accuse me of having a bias.

2nd
3 of Ryans losses while in 5A came to teams that won state. They had another loss in OT against one of the best teams in the state this past year, so there was nothing weak about my statement. Anyone with a clue about HS football would see that.

Finally, like I state above, Ryan is on par with Lufkin and has been a overall more impressive program over the last 5 years than anyone not named SLC. Last time I checked the records since Carroll move up to 5A both Lufkin and Ryan are 0-3 against the Dragons.

[dragonsdaddy]

counting hp, they lost to 3 state champs and were 0-4 vs them.

[drgnbkr]

1st
To accuse anyone of a bias is funny, you are all about East Texas and never fail to remind us of how lufkin has sent 23564895425623 guys to D1 the last few years. So dont accuse me of having a bias.

2nd
3 of Ryans losses while in 5A came to teams that won state. They had another loss in OT against one of the best teams in the state this past year, so there was nothing weak about my statement. Anyone with a clue about HS football would see that.

Finally, like I state above, Ryan is on par with Lufkin and has been a overall more impressive program over the last 5 years than anyone not named SLC. Last time I checked the records since Carroll move up to 5A both Lufkin and Ryan are 0-3 against the Dragons.

Pack..I'm sorry, but he is spot on with all of that....:)

[pack0808]

1st
To accuse anyone of a bias is funny, you are all about East Texas and never fail to remind us of how lufkin has sent 23564895425623 guys to D1 the last few years. So dont accuse me of having a bias.

2nd
3 of Ryans losses while in 5A came to teams that won state. They had another loss in OT against one of the best teams in the state this past year, so there was nothing weak about my statement. Anyone with a clue about HS football would see that.

Finally, like I state above, Ryan is on par with Lufkin and has been a overall more impressive program over the last 5 years than anyone not named SLC. Last time I checked the records since Carroll move up to 5A both Lufkin and Ryan are 0-3 against the Dragons.


And i find your philosphy of DR doing as much as Lufkin in the last 2 years as very very funny. Lufkin has been to the state semis 2 years in a row and DR lost in the 1st round this year and it was not to SLC!! Lufkin has lost to ONE team in 2 years and DR has lost 3 different teams. But so be it. I am sorry i find that biased but i do. The fact's scream it. I am one of several fan's that brag on the talent of their team and of course i am a little east texas biased big deal. Like you do not brag on metroplex teams?? At least i admit that i am biased! On the div1a statement. They are fact's it is not like i am lying. Lufkin is in the top 3 in div1a recruits in the state the last few years. How can fact's be biased? I thought DR was a good but not great team in 2004 and i thought that DR was above average 4 loss team in 2005. Just my opinion. They were far from an elite team in 5a in my opinion. I am not going to change your mind and your not going to change mine.

You cannot compare a teams record in the last 5 years to another when they are playing entirely different competition. Lufkin is still up there with anybody in the last 5 years "without a doubt" and that is playing at the highest classification. Yes Lufkin and DR are both 0-3 in the last 2 years vs SLC but just look at the results on who played them 100 times more tough. Ask SLC players who was more tough to play? That has to say something? Again, i am sorry that i think DR was far from a elite 5a team the last 2 years. Again, I thought they were very solid but definitely not elite. Just my opinion man.

[dragonfootballfan]

can you answer this question pleaseWhat 5A power has Lufkin beaten in the last two years?

[pack0808]

Pack..I'm sorry, but he is spot on with all of that....:)


Do you recall the Fossil Ridge loss now? ;) I have no problem with you disagreeing with me. We are human and we all have opinions and they are going to differ from time to time.

[pack0808]

can you answer this question please


Well i would definitely say Lufkin has beaten more top 10 5a teams in the last 5 years then any team in the state. In 2003 Lufkin beat 7 top 10 teams in the regular season alone. :eek: Since moving to the clearly weaker Houston district the schedule strength has obviously went down. You still do not get to the state semis 2 years in a row only losing to the #1 team in the nation and not beat some top teams. Off the top of my head? Let me think, Lufkin beat the division 1 state champs in 2004 in Tyler Lee. Lufkin came out of the toughest region in 5a this year according to this site and according the records and rankings. Some of the best teams in the state were in region 2 this year and only Lufkin survived.

[dragonfootballfan]

Well i would definitely say Lufkin has beaten more top 10 5a teams in the last 5 years then any team in the state. In 2003 Lufkin beat 7 top 10 teams in the regular season alone. :eek: Since moving to the clearly weaker Houston district the schedule strength has obviously went down. You still do not get to the state semis 2 years in a row only losing to the #1 team in the nation and not beat some top teams. Off the top of my head? Let me think, Lufkin beat the division 1 state champs in 2004 in Tyler Lee. Lufkin came out of the toughest region in 5a this year according to this site and according the records and rankings. Some of the best teams in the state were in region 2 this year and only Lufkin survived.
so Lufkin's most impressive victory in the last 2 years was to a state champion Tyler Lee in the regular season. One power. That is it. Do not say that Denton Ryan is not an elite team the last two years because they did not win any games against 5A powers. Lufkin had one win over a power. Denton Ryan had maybe one depending on how you look at their Irving MacArthur win. That is it. I guess Lufkin was not an elite team these past two years.

[pack0808]

so Lufkin's most impressive victory in the last 2 years was to a state champion Tyler Lee in the regular season. One power. That is it. Do not say that Denton Ryan is not an elite team the last two years because they did not win any games against 5A powers. Lufkin had one win over a power. Denton Ryan had maybe one depending on how you look at their Irving MacArthur win. That is it. I guess Lufkin was not an elite team these past two years.


I guess you do not have any reading comprehension? I said on the top of my head!! and a state champ is as "elite" as it gets the last time i checked?:confused: DR did not come close to beating a state champ. How does a team that went to the state semis 2 years in a row not beat any top teams? There must not be any top teams besides SLC then? Again, Lufkin came out of the toughest region in the state this year. Since you ask me a question let me try one on you? How is a 7-4 record and losing in the 1st round considered elite by any standards on any level? You said DR was elite their 2 years in 5a so please let me know how that is possible. Maybe we should use farmer's logic on championships. If we use that logic then Laredo United South was as good as both DR and Lufkin because they all did not win a championship in the last 2 years.


Lufkin since 99

Lost to future champ Garland in 99 (blew a big 2nd half lead)
Won state championship in 2001
Lost to state champ SLC in 2002 a 33-30 thriller
Beat div2 champ Katy in 2003
Beat div1 champ Tyler Lee in 2004 and only game lost was to div2 champ and #1 team in the nation SLC 37-30
Lost to only the #1 team in the nation SLC

As you can see, Lufkin is used to beating and losing to champs on a yearly basis. Name any other team that has beat 2 champs in the regular season the last 3 years. Nobody has done that so do not bother. The only loss to a champ that was by more then 7 points was this year's loss to SLC. The rest all went down to the wire.

[dragonfootballfan]

I guess you do not have any reading comprehension? I said on the top of my head!! and a state champ is as "elite" as it gets the last time i checked?:confused: DR did not come close to beating a state champ. How does a team that went to the state semis 2 years in a row not beat any top teams? There must not be any top teams besides SLC then? Again, Lufkin came out of the toughest region in the state this year. Since you ask me a question let me try one on you? How is a 7-4 record and losing in the 1st round considered elite by any standards on any level? You said DR was elite their 2 years in 5a so please let me know how that is possible. Maybe we should use farmer's logic on championships. If that is the case Laredo United South was as good as both DR and Lufkin because they all did not win a championship.


Lufkin since 99

Lost to future champ Garland in 99 (blew a big 2nd half lead)
Won state championship in 2001
Lost to state champ SLC in 2002 a 33-30 thriller
Beat div2 champ Katy in 2003
Beat div1 champ Tyler Lee in 2004 and only game lost was to div2 champ and #1 team in the nation SLC 37-30
Lost to only the #1 team in the nation SLC

As you can see, Lufkin is used to beating and losing to champs. The only loss to a champ that was by more then 7 points was this year's loss to SLC. The rest all went down to the wire.
First of all I asked in the last two years. All of those games before the 2004 season do not matter in this discussion. Denton Ryan is an elite team. They were not at that level last year, but they were the year before. Lufkin may have been in the strongest region this year, but Lufkin did not play the most impressive teams.

6-5 Harker Heights
10-2 Hays
8-5 South Garland
13-1 Cove

Cove was good, but they were the first good team that Lufkin played before they were beat by the only "elite" team that they played this year. I think that Cove is right on par with SGP, the team that Denton Ryan lost to in the playoffs.

Another thing that makes Ryan elite in my mind is that they do not make up excuses after losses. They do not mention anything about refs or headsets. If they lose they take it like a man. They are a respectable bunch of people and that makes them elite.

[pack0808]

First of all I asked in the last two years. All of those games before the 2004 season do not matter in this discussion. Denton Ryan is an elite team. They were not at that level last year, but they were the year before. Lufkin may have been in the strongest region this year, but Lufkin did not play the most impressive teams.

6-5 Harker Heights
10-2 Hays
8-5 South Garland
13-1 Cove

Cove was good, but they were the first good team that Lufkin played before they were beat by the only "elite" team that they played this year. I think that Cove is right on par with SGP, the team that Denton Ryan lost to in the playoffs.

Another thing that makes Ryan elite in my mind is that they do not make up excuses after losses. They do not mention anything about refs or headsets. If they lose they take it like a man. They are a respectable bunch of people and that makes them elite.



Complete garbage!! I knew you did not have an answer for the 2 year elite statement. Impossible because there is not one. And when have i EVER made an excuse when Lufkin lost to SLC in the last 2 years. Ask any SLC fan and they will tell you i did not. I simply said SLC was the better team and gave them all the props they deserved. Do not put a few people that you heard making excuses with all of the Lufkin fans. Simply silly. The vast majority of Lufkin fans that i know ( i promise i know many more then you) all said Lufkin simply lost to a better team and that was regardless of injuries. I cannot say the same in 2002. I thought and still do think that Lufkin was the better team in 2002 and that was just an unfortunate game. In 2004 and 2005 SLC was clearly better even though one of those went to the end.


But to expand on your top teams in the last 2 years between DR and Lufkin. Let's do top 10 teams at the time is that fair? I think it is.

Lufkin is 5-2 vs top 10 teams in the last 2 years

Lufkin beat Tyler Lee in 2004 who was top 5 at the time
Lufkin beat The Woodlands who was #10 at the time
Lufkin beat Longview in the regionals semis and they were ranked in the top 5 at the end of the regular season
Lufkin beat Cedar Park in the regional finals who was ranked in the top 10 at the end of the reg season
Lufkin beat Cooperas Cove in the regional finals who was ranked in the top 10 at the end of the reg season

Lufkin only 2 losses in the last 2 years was to the #1 ranked team in the state and nation. You are right Lufkin only beat one top 10 team this year in Cove but it is not Lufkin's fault that top 5 teams like Longview and Carter lost earlier in region 2. Lufkin beat the teams that beat them.


As far as i know the only top 10 team at the time that DR beat was Irving Mac. So the score is 5 to 1. DR has lost to 2 unranked teams at the time in Fossil Ridge and SGP in the last 2 years. Also, when DR has played a top 10 team the score 99 percent of the time has not been very pretty at all.

[farmerfan]

And i find your philosphy of DR doing as much as Lufkin in the last 2 years as very very funny. Lufkin has been to the state semis 2 years in a row and DR lost in the 1st round this year and it was not to SLC!! Lufkin has lost to ONE team in 2 years and DR has lost 3 different teams. But so be it. I am sorry i find that biased but i do. The fact's scream it. I am one of several fan's that brag on the talent of their team and of course i am a little east texas biased big deal. Like you do not brag on metroplex teams?? At least i admit that i am biased! On the div1a statement. They are fact's it is not like i am lying. Lufkin is in the top 3 in div1a recruits in the state the last few years. How can fact's be biased? I thought DR was a good but not great team in 2004 and i thought that DR was above average 4 loss team in 2005. Just my opinion. They were far from an elite team in 5a in my opinion. I am not going to change your mind and your not going to change mine.

You cannot compare a teams record in the last 5 years to another when they are playing entirely different competition. Lufkin is still up there with anybody in the last 5 years "without a doubt" and that is playing at the highest classification. Yes Lufkin and DR are both 0-3 in the last 2 years vs SLC but just look at the results on who played them 100 times more tough. Ask SLC players who was more tough to play? That has to say something? Again, i am sorry that i think DR was far from a elite 5a team the last 2 years. Again, I thought they were very solid but definitely not elite. Just my opinion man.

You switch Ryan and Lufkin and Ryan plays CARROLL in the state semis while Lufkin does not advance out of the region. In 2004 they beat a state ranked 10-0 Irving Mac team, the following week they defeated another very good football team in 10-1 Plano West. They also defeated a 10-2 Midland team before losing to CARROLL. In 2004 I-Mac was among the best teams in the state and the same could be said for Plano West. This year they had SGP on the edge of defeat. Many teams in this state would have loved to do what Ryan did over the last two years. Like I said, all you have to do is switch regions and Lukfin would not make it out of Region 1 while Ryan would have been playing Carroll in the state semis.

[farmerfan]

Well i would definitely say Lufkin has beaten more top 10 5a teams in the last 5 years then any team in the state. In 2003 Lufkin beat 7 top 10 teams in the regular season alone. :eek: Since moving to the clearly weaker Houston district the schedule strength has obviously went down. You still do not get to the state semis 2 years in a row only losing to the #1 team in the nation and not beat some top teams. Off the top of my head? Let me think, Lufkin beat the division 1 state champs in 2004 in Tyler Lee. Lufkin came out of the toughest region in 5a this year according to this site and according the records and rankings. Some of the best teams in the state were in region 2 this year and only Lufkin survived.


I think the toughest region proved to be region 1. SLC got a tougher game from Plano in region 1 than they did anyone else inthe state and both State champs reside in Region 1. Usually the toughest region in the state would have at least had a state champioship.

[pack0808]

You switch Ryan and Lufkin and Ryan plays CARROLL in the state semis while Lufkin does not advance out of the region. In 2004 they beat a state ranked 10-0 Irving Mac team, the following week they defeated another very good football team in 10-1 Plano West. They also defeated a 10-2 Midland team before losing to CARROLL. In 2004 I-Mac was among the best teams in the state and the same could be said for Plano West. This year they had SGP on the edge of defeat. Many teams in this state would have loved to do what Ryan did over the last two years. Like I said, all you have to do is switch regions and Lukfin would not make it out of Region 1 while Ryan would have been playing Carroll in the state semis.



Again, DR was 7-4 this year and lost in the "1st ROUND"!!!!!! That is not elite no matter how you want to look at it. DR would have never won region 2 in 2004 and 2005 you are legally insane. ;) They could not beat Keller Fossil Rdige or SGP and they got absolutely embarrassed and shut out on national tv and they were slaughtered by HP. But a team that could not beat freaking Fossil Ridge would have beat all of the top 10 teams in region 2 not counting Lufkin this year? Truely Crazy!

[pack0808]

I think the toughest region proved to be region 1. SLC got a tougher game from Plano in region 1 than they did anyone else inthe state and both State champs reside in Region 1. Usually the toughest region in the state would have at least had a state champioship.


Well 5atexasfootball disagreed with you and so did the majority of the posters when we voted. The rankings and records disagree with you also. you are free to have that opinion but you were definitely in the minority.

[farmerfan]

Well 5atexasfootball disagreed with you and so did the majority of the posters when we voted. The rankings and records disagree with you also. you are free to have that opinion but you were definitely in the minority.


It aint a opinion, it was proven to be a fact when both Trinity and Carroll won state titles. It was also proven that the toughest game given to Carroll in the playoffs was from another region 1 team in Plano.

[farmerfan]

Again, DR was 7-4 this year and lost in the "1st ROUND"!!!!!! That is not elite no matter how you want to look at it. DR would have never won region 2 in 2004 and 2005 you are legally insane. ;) They could not beat Keller Fossil Rdige or SGP and they got absolutely embarrassed and shut out on national tv and they were slaughtered by HP. But a team that could not beat freaking Fossil Ridge would have beat all of the top 10 teams in region 2 not counting Lufkin this year? Truely Crazy!


Ok so this year they lost int he 1st round, in 2004 they lost 2 games to the same freaking team. Had they been in region 2 in 2004 they would have made the state semis. Had Lufkin been in region 1 in 2004 they would not have made the semis. Ryan was as good as anyone in the state outside of Carroll in 2004. If I remember correctly Lufkin had a first round exit not to long ago, so by your standards with Lufkin losing in the 1st round they are not elite either right?

[pack0808]

It aint a opinion, it was proven to be a fact when both Trinity and Carroll won state titles. It was also proven that the toughest game given to Carroll in the playoffs was from another region 1 team in Plano.


Trinity has absolutely nothing to do with div2 region 2 the last time i checked? :confused: I should just give up. I mean it is pointless. Let's just move on. If you think that 7-4 is as good or elite as 14-1 then so be it. Believe what you want to believe. I know what i saw on national tv this year and last year and that team was not impressive at all. I know it was SLC but those 2 games were sad. They were not even competitive. But either way who cares. I am obviously not going to change your opinion and you definitely are not going to change mine. Just a disagreement between to HOF's. It happens. ;)

[pack0808]

Ok so this year they lost int he 1st round, in 2004 they lost 2 games to the same freaking team. Had they been in region 2 in 2004 they would have made the state semis. Had Lufkin been in region 1 in 2004 they would not have made the semis. Ryan was as good as anyone in the state outside of Carroll in 2004. If I remember correctly Lufkin had a first round exit not to long ago, so by your standards with Lufkin losing in the 1st round they are not elite either right?



I give up man you just do not give. Your logic? wow! Ask SLC who was tougher to play in 2004. At least you admit they lost in the 1st round in 2005. Are we talking about the last 3 years? No! Was DR in 5a in 2003? NO!! But you are right Lufkin lost in the 1st round in 2003. That was the only time in the last 7 years that happened to Lufkin at the 5a level. :eek: Not many 5a teams can say that i promise you.

[dragonfootballfan]

Lufkin is elite. Denton Ryan is elite. You do not have to be 5A to be one of the elite teams. I really think you have to be atleast 4A to be elite, because the talent difference between 4A and 5A I do not think is as great as it is from 4A to 3A and especially 3A to 5A. In the last 6 seasons Denton Ryan made a state final 4 times winning 2 in 4A. In the last 6 seasons Carroll has made the state final 4 times winning 3. In the last 6 years Lufkin has made the finals 1 time and won 1 time.

It could be argued that over the past 4 years there was only one elite team and that was Carroll. If you were taking that stance you would have a better case, but in my opinion if you have Lufkin as an elite team, then you must have Denton Ryan as an elite team.

[pack0808]

In fact, is there any team that can say that they have been to at least the 2nd round of the playoffs 6 of the last 7 years in 5a? I bet Katy is the only other 5a team that probably can say that? It might be 5 of the last 6 years though. Lufkin went deep in 98 but did not make the playoffs in 99. so i am sorry 5 of the last 6 years in 5a. Still impressive.

[dragonfootballfan]

In fact, is there any team that can say that they have been to at least the 2nd round of the playoffs 6 of the last 7 years in 5a? I bet Katy is the only other 5a team that probably can say that? It might be 5 of the last 6 years though. Lufkin went deep in 98 but did not make the playoffs in 99. so i am sorry 5 of the last 6 years in 5a. Still impressive.
I guess you can count a streak of mediocrity as impressive.

[pack0808]

Lufkin is elite. Denton Ryan is elite. You do not have to be 5A to be one of the elite teams. I really think you have to be atleast 4A to be elite, because the talent difference between 4A and 5A I do not think is as great as it is from 4A to 3A and especially 3A to 5A. In the last 6 seasons Denton Ryan made a state final 4 times winning 2 in 4A. In the last 6 seasons Carroll has made the state final 4 times winning 3. In the last 6 years Lufkin has made the finals 1 time and won 1 time.

It could be argued that over the past 4 years there was only one elite team and that was Carroll. If you were taking that stance you would have a better case, but in my opinion if you have Lufkin as an elite team, then you must have Denton Ryan as an elite team.


I can live with that but if you look at recent result then 5a has clearly been tougher then 4a in the last 2 years. Here is what i can live with and truely believe. DR was elite of the elite's in 4a but they were just good to very good on the 5a level. If you were to rank the top 10 teams in the last 2 years in 5a then DR would not be close to it. 7-4 and losing in the 1st round screwed all that up.

[dragonfootballfan]

Denton Ryan is looked upon as an elite team by most people. There is a reason that they have been on national television twice in the last two years.

[farmerfan]

I can live with that but if you look at recent result then 5a has clearly been tougher then 4a in the last 2 years. Here is what i can live with and truely believe. DR was elite of the elite's in 4a but they were just good to very good on the 5a level. If you were to rank the top 10 teams in the last 2 years in 5a then DR would not be close to it. 7-4 and losing in the 1st round screwed all that up.


You keep throwing out the 14-2 season. They wre 14-2 their 1st year in 5A with both losses coming to Carroll. The second game was a competitive football game. Carroll won 28-7 but Ryan gave them a good game. Had Lufkin and Ryan got to swtich playoff paths the last two years then Ryan would have advanced further than they did.

[pack0808]

I guess you can count a streak of mediocrity as impressive.


Just means they are consistent. I hardly think 3 state semi appearances in 4 years and a state championship is medocre. I do not think 64-8 in the last 5 years of 5a is mediocre at all do you? In fact, what other team cam say they have won 64 teams on the 5a level in the last 5 years. The only one that has a chance is Katy. SLC does not count because they were in 4a in 2001.

[farmerfan]

I can live with that but if you look at recent result then 5a has clearly been tougher then 4a in the last 2 years. Here is what i can live with and truely believe. DR was elite of the elite's in 4a but they were just good to very good on the 5a level. If you were to rank the top 10 teams in the last 2 years in 5a then DR would not be close to it. 7-4 and losing in the 1st round screwed all that up.


This year it could be argued very effectivley that the champs in 4A would have given any team in 5A a good football game. Hebron and HP both would have advanced very deep in the 5A playoffs.

[farmerfan]

Just means they are consistent. I hardly think 3 state semi appearances in 4 years and a state championship is medocre. I do not think 64-8 in the last 5 years of 5a is mediocre at all do you? In fact, what other team cam say they have won 64 teams on the 5a level in the last 5 years. The only one that has a chance is Katy. SLC does not count because they were in 4a in 2001.


SLC can say they have won 63 in only 4 years of 5A.

[dragonfootballfan]

Just means they are consistent. I hardly think 3 state semi appearances in 4 years and a state championship is medocre. I do not think 64-8 in the last 5 years of 5a is mediocre at all do you? In fact, what other team cam say they have won 64 teams on the 5a level in the last 5 years. The only one that has a chance is Katy. SLC does not count because they were in 4a in 2001.
so now in order to make Lufkin look better you are counting their stats for an entire extra season and not counting stats for Carroll. That makes a lot of sense.

[pack0808]

You keep throwing out the 14-2 season. They wre 14-2 their 1st year in 5A with both losses coming to Carroll. The second game was a competitive football game. Carroll won 28-7 but Ryan gave them a good game. Had Lufkin and Ryan got to swtich playoff paths the last two years then Ryan would have advanced further than they did.


Lufkin was 14-1 the last 2 years not 14-2. If i said 14-2 i was wrong. DR could not have won 14 games in 2004 if they did not play in the state semis. I think they were 12-1 if i am not mistaken? So Lufkin is 28-2 in the last 2 years while beating 5 top 10 teams while DR was what 19-6 beating one top 10 team. Let the neutral observers absorb those fact's and decide who has been better in the last 2 years. Crystal clear to me.

[pack0808]

so now in order to make Lufkin look better you are counting their stats for an entire extra season and not counting stats for Carroll. That makes a lot of sense.


What? I simply said that no other team has won more 5a games in the past 5 years then Lufkin. (maybe Katy has i am not sure?) Those are just fact's i am not twising the numbers. Of course SLC has won by FAR the most 5a games in the last 4 years but you can't count them in the last 5 years because they were in 4a. That only makes sense to me.

[dragonfootballfan]

Lufkin was 14-1 the last 2 years not 14-2. If i said 14-2 i was wrong. DR could not have won 14 games in 2004 if they did not play in the state semis. I think they were 12-1 if i am not mistaken? So Lufkin is 28-2 in the last 2 years while beating 5 top 10 teams while DR was what 19-5 beating one top 10 team. Let the neutral observers absorb those fact's and decide who has been better in the last 2 years. Crystal clear to me.
Lufkin may have been better the last two years, but that does not make Denton Ryan not elite. I guess you only consider teams more impressive than Lufkin as elite.

[pack0808]

SLC can say they have won 63 in only 4 years of 5A.


I am well aware of that thanks. I was talking the last 5 years in 5a though.

[dragonfootballfan]

What? I simply said that no other team has won more 5a games in the past 5 years then Lufkin. (maybe Katy has i am not sure?) Those are just fact's i am not twising the numbers. Of course SLC has won by FAR the most 5a games in the last 4 years but you can't count them in the last 5 years because they were in 4a. That only makes sense to me.
It does not make sense to throw out a stat that cannot be applied to all the teams that we are discussing.

[pack0808]

Lufkin may have been better the last two years, but that does not make Denton Ryan not elite. I guess you only consider teams more impressive than Lufkin as elite.


I seriously am wondering why i bother? :eek: AGAIN, I consider top 5 as elite and top 10 as great. DR was not even in the top 10 if you combine the last 2 years. They were top 15 maybe. I consider that very good. So i will give in a little. They were a very good 5a (top 15 team) if you combine the past 2 years.

[pack0808]

It does not make sense to throw out a stat that cannot be applied to all the teams that we are discussing.


Why not? Nobody is arguing that SLC has not been the best 5a team BY FAR in the last 4 years. Nobody is arguing SLC is not the elite of elite's? :confused: I was just simply pointing out that Lufkin has been the best 5a team in the past 5 years not counting SLC. Seriously, Name a team that has done more in 5a in the past 5 years. Nobody. The only one close is Katy.

[dragonfootballfan]

I am well aware of that thanks. I was talking the last 5 years in 5a though.
Carroll has one less win in 5A in the past four years than Lufkin has in 5 years. I think that is pretty impressive. In the last five years Carroll has 73 wins to Lufkin's 64.

[farmerfan]

I am well aware of that thanks. I was talking the last 5 years in 5a though.


O I see because it makes your panthers look better. In that same 5 year stretch Denton Ryan has won 2 state championships while playing for another 2. During that same 5 year stretch Carroll has won 73 games. You have to count them because they are now 5A. You always twist things to make your lufkin panthers look better, and you wanted to call me biased :rolleyes:

[dragonfootballfan]

I seriously am wondering why i bother? :eek: AGAIN, I consider top 5 as elite and top 10 as great. DR was not even in the top 10 if you combine the last 2 years. They were top 15 maybe. I consider that very good. So i will give in a little. They were a very good 5a (top 15 team) if you combine the past 2 years.
how can a team with no championships and no finals appearances be considered top 5 over the last 2 years?

[farmerfan]

Why not? Nobody is arguing that SLC has not been the best 5a team BY FAR in the last 4 years. Nobody is arguing SLC is not the elite of elite's? :confused: I was just simply pointing out that Lufkin has been the best 5a team in the past 5 years not counting SLC. Seriously, Name a team that has done more in 5a in the past 5 years. Nobody. The only one close is Katy.


Katy has done more, they have played for 2 state titles while winning 1. Lufkin has been to 1 state championship. Judson has done more as well, winning a state title in 2002 and playing for another this past year.

[pack0808]

Carroll has two less wins in 5A in the past four years than Lufkin has in 5 years. I think that is pretty impressive. In the last five years Carroll has 73 wins to Lufkin's 64.


I know I know I know. Nobody has been better then SLC and who is arguing that. I am simply saying in 5a, Lufkin is 2nd to only SLC in the past 5 years. Period! I said i should give up but now i am. I am going to bed. Just fun football talk and it is nothing personal. Farmer knows that and i hope you do. We all are friend at the end of the day in my book. It is just a innocent hs football argument. Yall be good i need to crash and get so i can function at work. :)

[farmerfan]

So Pack, give 10 teams who have done more than Ryan over the last 2 years?

[dragonfootballfan]

So Pack, give 10 teams who have done more than Ryan over the last 2 years?
by his definition Lufkin is not an elite team because they are not top 5 in the last 2 years

Carroll has 2 championships and 2 finals appearances
Trinity has 1 championship and 1 finals appearance
Tyler Lee has 1 championship and 1 finals appearance
Katy has one finals appearance
Smithson Valley has one finals appearance
Westfield has one finals appearance
Judson has one finals appearance

All of these teams have accomplished more than Lufkin in the past 2 years

[pack0808]

O I see because it makes your panthers look better. In that same 5 year stretch Denton Ryan has won 2 state championships while playing for another 2. During that same 5 year stretch Carroll has won 73 games. You have to count them because they are now 5A. You always twist things to make your lufkin panthers look better, and you wanted to call me biased :rolleyes:


I can't help it one more reply to this i have to. What is biased about saying Lufkin has been the 2nd best "5a" team in the last 5 years it is true. Nothing. I am not twisting numbers to make Lufkin look better in the past 5 years in "5A" that is just the fact's. Look them up for yourself. :p I can only imagine what Lufkin would have done in the past 5 years in 4a? :eek: We all saw what the 4a GOD's DR did in 5a. 19-6 in the last 2 years whoopedee doo. I have never seen a guy so loyal and biased to an areal that he is up at midnight arguing it when it does not have anything to do with your team? If this argument was about Longview or Tyler Lee i promise i would not be this passionate about it? That is for sure. One last time and this time i swear. Good night my friend.

[dragonfootballfan]

I can't help it one more reply to this i have to. What is biased about saying Lufkin has been the 2nd best "5a" team in the last 5 years it is true. Nothing. I am not twisting numbers to make Lufkin look better in the past 5 years in "5A" that is just the fact's. Look them up for yourself. :p I can only imagine what Lufkin would have done in the past 5 years in 4a? :eek: We all saw what the 4a GOD's DR did in 5a. 19-6 in the last 2 years whoopedee doo. I have never seen a guy so loyal and biased to an areal that he is up at midnight arguing it when it does not have anything to do with your team? If this argument was about Longview or Tyler Lee i promise i would not be this passionate about it? That is for sure. One last time and this time i swear. Good night my friend.
Lufkin has not been the second best team in the last 5 years. They currently hold one 5A trophy and one 5A finals appearance. Carroll and Katy both hold multiple titles and multiple finals appearances. I guess all you care about is that Lufkin has one more 5A win than Carroll in the last 5 years, even though Carroll has one less season than Lufkin.

Also Lufkin has not accomplished enough to be in the top 5 of the last 4 years. That would put them outside of what you call elite. Do you believe that your Lufkin Panthers have not been an elite team the last 4 years?

[farmerfan]

I can't help it one more reply to this i have to. What is biased about saying Lufkin has been the 2nd best "5a" team in the last 5 years it is true. Nothing. I am not twisting numbers to make Lufkin look better in the past 5 years in "5A" that is just the fact's. Look them up for yourself. :p I can only imagine what Lufkin would have done in the past 5 years in 4a? :eek: We all saw what the 4a GOD's DR did in 5a. 19-6 in the last 2 years whoopedee doo. I have never seen a guy so loyal and biased to an areal that he is up at midnight arguing it when it does not have anything to do with your team? If this argument was about Longview or Tyler Lee i promise i would not be this passionate about it? That is for sure. One last time and this time i swear. Good night my friend.


I argue because you are wrong. Ryan went 12-2 their 1st year in 5A, you always point out how Lufkin has 2 losses the last two years and they were both to carroll, well Ryan had 2 losses in their 1st year of 5A both to Carroll. If one is good for Lufkin it should be good for the other.
I also laugh at how you make fun of me for arguing at midnight, but what have you been doing? the same damn thing. Once again this was not even about Lufkin but like you always to, you hijack a thread and bring up Lufkin or put down a team when you are wrong. I guess next thing your going to tell me is that Longview has been more impressive the last 2 years than Denton Ryan?

[farmerfan]

Lufkin has not been the second best team in the last 5 years. They currently hold one 5A trophy and one 5A finals appearance. Carroll and Katy both hold multiple titles and multiple finals appearances. I guess all you care about is that Lufkin has one more 5A win than Carroll in the last 5 years, even though Carroll has one less season than Lufkin.

Also Lufkin has not accomplished enough to be in the top 5 of the last 4 years. That would put them outside of what you call elite. Do you believe that your Lufkin Panthers have not been an elite team the last 4 years?

Trinity has 1 state finals apperance with a state championship and 2 more semifinals apperances. I would say Trinity is just as accomplished as Lufkin over the last 2 years, and they definitely have been more impressive the last 2 years.

[dragonfootballfan]

Trinity has 1 state finals apperance with a state championship and 2 more semifinals apperances. I would say Trinity is just as accomplished as Lufkin over the last 2 years, and they definitely have been more impressive the last 2 years.
over the last two years, there are 3 teams that have trophies. None of those are Lufkin. Over the past two years 7 teams have finals appearances and none of those are Lufkin. I think that is seven teams that have accomplished more than Lufkin the past two years.

I am done for tonight. I will continue this discussion tomorrow.

[pack0808]

I could not sleep so i went back on my swear. I am glad i did after looking at the false info that was given once again. ;)

[farmerfan]

I could not sleep so i went back on my swear. I am glad i did after looking at the false info that was given once again. ;)

good, i dont want to be the only one patrolling the board tonight.
So lets hear it, give 10 teams that you would consider better than Ryan the last 2 years and give your so called elite teams over the last 2 years?

[pack0808]

I argue because you are wrong. Ryan went 12-2 their 1st year in 5A, you always point out how Lufkin has 2 losses the last two years and they were both to carroll, well Ryan had 2 losses in their 1st year of 5A both to Carroll. If one is good for Lufkin it should be good for the other.
I also laugh at how you make fun of me for arguing at midnight, but what have you been doing? the same damn thing. Once again this was not even about Lufkin but like you always to, you hijack a thread and bring up Lufkin or put down a team when you are wrong. I guess next thing your going to tell me is that Longview has been more impressive the last 2 years than Denton Ryan?


Wow farmer you amaze me at times? I do not hijack threads to talk about Lufkin. I was simply saying i was not impressed with DR and Farmer and his wacky metroplex delusions flipped his lid and have given a bunch of garbage excuses and how DR was as good as Lufkin in the last 2 years. Did you see that?? 2 2 2!! years I thought Lufkin was clearly better in 2004 but i will give you a tie since they both only lost to SLC even though DR did it in ugly fashion. In 2005 it is painfully obvious to anybody that is not seriously delusional. Yeah i am arguing about my team until midnight and your team has nothing to do with this argument. What does the Lewisville Fighting Farmers have to do with this argument. At least my team is in this discussion. :rolleyes:

[farmerfan]

Wow farmer you amaze me at times? I do not hijack threads to talk about Lufkin. I was simply saying i was not impressed with DR and Farmer and his wacky metroplex delusions flipped his lid and have given a bunch of garbage excuses and how DR was as good as Lufkin in the last 2 years. Did you see that?? 2 2 2!! years I thought Lufkin was clearly better in 2004 but i will give you a tie since they both only lost to SLC even though DR did it in ugly fashion. In 2005 it is painfully obvious to anybody that is not seriously delusional. Yeah i am arguing about my team until midnight and your team has nothing to do with this argument. What does the Lewisville Fighting Farmers have to do with this argument. At least my team is in this discussion. :rolleyes:


If you knew anything at all outside of your east texas warped world, you would know that I have always defended teams from the metroplex. Kinf of like you used to do with how Tyler Lee or Longview is so and so and done such and such. For you to call anyone a homer is hypocritical at best. All you do is remind us every possible time how lufkin has sent this many players to schools or how they have won this many games. Everything you are accusing me of you are just as guilty my friend.

What does it matter if my team has something to say about it or not?
Cant take the fact that you are wrong abotu Ryan? cant take the fact that many people have showed you how you were wrong? It is your opinion that Lufkin was better than Ryan in 2004 but it was my opinion that they were not. Carroll was on the verge of blowing Lufkin out. To be honest with you I was not impressed with Lufkin in 2004, I felt that Abilene and SV both were better than Lufkin and I think Ryan would have beat them to.

[pack0808]

by his definition Lufkin is not an elite team because they are not top 5 in the last 2 years

Carroll has 2 championships and 2 finals appearances
Trinity has 1 championship and 1 finals appearance
Tyler Lee has 1 championship and 1 finals appearance
Katy has one finals appearance
Smithson Valley has one finals appearance
Westfield has one finals appearance
Judson has one finals appearance

All of these teams have accomplished more than Lufkin in the past 2 years

First Tyler Lee does not have 1 championship and 1 finals appearance in the last 2 years. They did not even make the playoffs this year. Second, DR was 14-2 in 2004 which is statistically impossible, then a 7-4 record is just as good as a 14-1 record and now this. You are on a roll tonight Farmer. ;)

So let me try to answer this twisted logic. Anybody with any type of logic would put 1. SLC 2. Katy 3.Lufkin 4. Trinity close behind in the past 2 years regardless of final appearances. Lufkin has much better records then most all of those teams you have mentioned in the last 2 years. Should we really have to get into how div1 was much weaker then div2 in the last 2 years and it is not fair to compare those 2. The fact is Lufkin has lost only 2 games in 2 years and both were in the state semis to the best team in the state. SLC is the only team that has been better in the last 2 years. Lufkin even beat Lee by 11 points in 2004 when they went on to win the title. What other 2 of those teams besides Trinity and SLC can say that they have at least been to the state semis in the last 2 years?

[pack0808]

If you knew anything at all outside of your east texas warped world, you would know that I have always defended teams from the metroplex. Kinf of like you used to do with how Tyler Lee or Longview is so and so and done such and such. For you to call anyone a homer is hypocritical at best. All you do is remind us every possible time how lufkin has sent this many players to schools or how they have won this many games. Everything you are accusing me of you are just as guilty my friend.

What does it matter if my team has something to say about it or not?
Cant take the fact that you are wrong abotu Ryan? cant take the fact that many people have showed you how you were wrong? It is your opinion that Lufkin was better than Ryan in 2004 but it was my opinion that they were not. Carroll was on the verge of blowing Lufkin out. To be honest with you I was not impressed with Lufkin in 2004, I felt that Abilene and SV both were better than Lufkin and I think Ryan would have beat them to.


That fact that you think you have proven me wrong tongiht speaks volume of how delusional and biased you truely are. I have never said i do not brag on my team. That is what these boards are mostly for the last time i checked? I never have given this much effort if this was a Longview or Lee discussion come on? There is your twisted logic again in 2004. :eek: They were on the verge of blowing Lufkin out? WTH? but by some freak miracle Lufkin outscored SLC by a big margin in the 2nd half to tie it. I saw Ryan on tv twice and i could not be more unimpressed with them and the RESULTS actually prove what i am saying unlike you.

[farmerfan]

First Tyler Lee does not have 1 championship and i finals appearance in hte last 2 years. They did not even make the playoffs this year. First DR was 14-2 which is statistically impossible, then a 7-4 record is just as good as a 14-1 record and now this. You are on a roll tonight Farmer. ;)

So let me try to answer this twisted logic. Anybody with any type of logic would put 1. SLC 2. Katy 3.Lufkin 4. Trinity close behind in the past 2 years regardless of final appearances. Lufkin has much better records then most all of those teams you have mentioned in the last 2 years. Should we really have to get into how div1 was much weaker then div2 in the last 2 years and it is not fair to compare those 2. The fact is Lufkin has lost only 2 games in 2 years and both were in the state semis to the best team in the state. SLC is the only team that has been better in the last 2 years. Lufkin even beat Lee by 11 points in 2004 when they went on to win the title. What other 2 of those teams besides Trinity and SLC can say that they have at least been to the state semis.

umm you quoted dff not me. Some times people have typos, I meant 12-2 for Ryan. I sure hope you continue to stay perfect.
To put Lufkin over Trinity is stupid. Lufkin has not accomplished what Trinity has the last two years. You are being purley subjective by putting Lufkin ahead of Trinity. Trinity has the hardware and Lufkin does not. Tyler Lee has the hardware and Lufkin does not.
Like I said, if Ryan was in Region 2 in 2004 they to would have been semifinalist. Lufkin might have lost 2 games in 2 years but as was pointed out earlier its not like they were playing world beaters.

[farmerfan]

That fact that you think you have proven me wrong tongiht speaks volume of how delusional and biased you truely are. I have never said i do not brag on my team. That is what these boards are mostly for the last time i checked? I never have given this much effort if this was a Longview or Lee discussion come on? There is your twisted logic again in 2004. :eek: They were on the verge of blowing Lufkin out? WTH? but by some freak miracle Lufkin outscored SLC by a big margin in the 2nd half to tie it. I saw Ryan on tv twice and i could not be more unimpressed with them and the RESULTS actually prove what i am saying unlike you.


The 1st half was not even close, so there lies my comment that Carroll was on the verge of blowing the game open.

[pack0808]

The 1st half was not even close, so there lies my comment that Carroll was on the verge of blowing the game open.


And Lufkin did the exact same thing to them in the 2nd half to tie it with 2 minutes left. Lufkin was on the verge of blowing out SLC in the 1st half in 2002 so what?

[farmerfan]

That fact that you think you have proven me wrong tongiht speaks volume of how delusional and biased you truely are. I have never said i do not brag on my team. That is what these boards are mostly for the last time i checked? I never have given this much effort if this was a Longview or Lee discussion come on? There is your twisted logic again in 2004. :eek: They were on the verge of blowing Lufkin out? WTH? but by some freak miracle Lufkin outscored SLC by a big margin in the 2nd half to tie it. I saw Ryan on tv twice and i could not be more unimpressed with them and the RESULTS actually prove what i am saying unlike you.


Did you see the playoff game in 2004? No. Ryan was very copetitive with Carroll that afternoon.
Isnt the board for making comments? Why does it matter if it is a team of mine or not? You are one of the only few in the state who truly believes that about Ryan. You always talk about top 10 teams and all the Lufkin beat. Well Ryan was a top 10 team in 5A to begin the year, and according to you it only matters if at one point you were in the top 10 not if you finished in the top 10 :rolleyes:

[pack0808]

umm you quoted dff not me. Some times people have typos, I meant 12-2 for Ryan. I sure hope you continue to stay perfect.
To put Lufkin over Trinity is stupid. Lufkin has not accomplished what Trinity has the last two years. You are being purley subjective by putting Lufkin ahead of Trinity. Trinity has the hardware and Lufkin does not. Tyler Lee has the hardware and Lufkin does not.
Like I said, if Ryan was in Region 2 in 2004 they to would have been semifinalist. Lufkin might have lost 2 games in 2 years but as was pointed out earlier its not like they were playing world beaters.


DR beating Lufkin in 2004 is funny. Silly to count hardware when 2 teams play in different playoffs. Does not make sense. I guess the div1aa champ is better then USC because they got hardware this year. Trinity would not have any hardware in div2 and it is very very obvious to most logical fans. They could not even beat div2 SGP. :eek: By the way, Another falsehood i see. If i am wrong please correct me. I make mistakes like we all do but dang you are on a roll tonight. I now notice You said that ET has a championship and a finals appearances in the last 2 years? They lost to Tyler Lee in the state semis in 2004 correct? Maybe you met state semi appearance?

[pack0808]

Did you see the playoff game in 2004? No. Ryan was very copetitive with Carroll that afternoon.
Isnt the board for making comments? Why does it matter if it is a team of mine or not? You are one of the only few in the state who truly believes that about Ryan. You always talk about top 10 teams and all the Lufkin beat. Well Ryan was a top 10 team in 5A to begin the year, and according to you it only matters if at one point you were in the top 10 not if you finished in the top 10 :rolleyes:


I am the only one of the few that believes DR was just good in 5a and not great? What? Of course SLC fans are going to say different because they were in their district. The fact's do not lie. They were very good in 2004 and a top 10 team but in 2005 they were not even in the top 20. So if you combine those 2 years they were just good. Obvious to me. You are right that they only have been absolutely destroyed by SLC 2 out of 3 times.

[farmerfan]

DR beating Lufkin in 2004 is funny. Silly to count hardware when 2 teams play in different playoffs. Does not make sense. I guess the div1aa champ is better then USC because they got hardware this year. Trinity would not have any hardware in div2 and it is very very obvious to most logical fans. They could not even beat div2 SGP. :eek: By the way, Another falsehood i see. If i am wrong please correct me. I make mistakes like we all do but dang you are on a roll tonight. I now notice You said that ET has a championship and a finals appearances in the last 2 years? They lost to Tyler Lee in the state semis in 2004 correct? Maybe you met state semi appearance?


IN ORDER TO WIN A TITLE YOU HAVE TO HAVE A TITLE APPERANCE.

LUFKIN HAS DONE NEITHER THE LAST 2 YEARS.
Trinity was one of the 2-3 best teams in Texas this year, they have the hardware to prove it.

[farmerfan]

I am the only one of the few that believes DR was just good in 5a and not great? What? Of course SLC fans are going to say different because they were in their district. The fact's do not lie. They were very good in 2004 and a top 10 team but in 2005 they were not even in the top 20. So if you combine those 2 years they were just good. Obvious to me. You are right that they only have been absolutely destroyed by SLC 2 out of 3 times.


The 1st half and some of the 3rd quarter of the 1st game in 2004 was close. Also if im not mistaken wasnt Lufkin destroyed by Carroll this year in their own backyard?

[pack0808]

IN ORDER TO WIN A TITLE YOU HAVE TO HAVE A TITLE APPERANCE.

LUFKIN HAS DONE NEITHER THE LAST 2 YEARS.
Trinity was one of the 2-3 best teams in Texas this year, they have the hardware to prove it.


Again, 2 completely different playoffs and it does not make sense to compare. IN ORDER TO PROVE THAT ONE TEAM IS BETTER THEN ANOTHER THEY ACTUALLY HAVE HAD TO PLAY IN THE SAME PLAYOFF UNLESS THEY MET HEAD TO HEAD IN THE REGULAR SEASON. So say the system was like that in college and there were 2 playoff brackets. If undefeated USC and UT were in the same division so obviously one would beat the other. So say in the other division that West Virginia or Virg Tech (teams that have lost) won it and there was 2 champs. Would you really say that WV or Virginia Yech was better then USC because they have the hardware won in the weaker playoff? You might,? but most would say the 2 best teams were in the same division and most would agree that USC was truely the 2nd best team.

[pack0808]

The 1st half and some of the 3rd quarter of the 1st game in 2004 was close. Also if im not mistaken wasnt Lufkin destroyed by Carroll this year in their own backyard?


At least Lufkin scored 28 points and actually had a lead late in the 2nd quarter. DR did not even score a point and were destroyed man. :eek: And they actually had their starting qb. You are making this too easy. Why don't you combine the scores of the 3 Lufkin vs SLC games compared to the DR vs SLC games and look at the GIGANTIC difference. Maybe i will look that one up because it should be funny.

[farmerfan]

Again, 2 completely different playoffs and it does not make sense to compare. IN ORDER TO PROVE THAT ONE TEAM IS BETTER THEN ANOTHER THEY ACTUALLY HAVE HAD TO PLAY IN THE SAME PLAYOFF UNLESS THEY MET HEAD TO HEAD IN THE REGULAR SEASON. So say the system was like that in college and there were 2 playoff brackets. If undefeated USC and UT were in the same division so obviously one would beat the other. So say in the other division that West Virginia or Virg Tech (teams that have lost) won it and there was 2 champs. Would you really say that WV or Virginia Yech was better then USC because they have the hardware won in the weaker playoff? You might,? but most would say the 2 best teams were in the same division and most would agree that USC was truely the 2nd best team.


Weak.
Division 1 had Trinity, Pearland, North Shore, Westfield and Judson. All those teams would have compted in division 2.
You are just rying to taint a teams accomplishments becuase you know you have been called on your statements. Lufkin does not belong to be mentioned among the states top 2-3 over the last two years because well they arent.
I also think that most woud agree this year that for the most part Trinity and Carroll were among the states best, with Westfield being right bedhind them.

[farmerfan]

At least Lufkin scored 28 points and actually had a lead late in the 2nd quarter. DR did not even score a point and were destroyed man. :eek: And they actually had their starting qb. You are making this too easy. Why don't you combine the scores of the 3 Lufkin vs SLC games compared to the DR vs SLC games and look at the GIGANTIC difference. Maybe i will look that one up because it should be funny.


In 2004 Ryan had a lead on Carroll in the second quarter at Dragon stadium. Nice try.
How long did Lufkin enjoy that lead for? abouyt .9 seconds. From that point on it was all she wrote.

[pack0808]

Weak.
Division 1 had Trinity, Pearland, North Shore, Westfield and Judson. All those teams would have compted in division 2.
You are just rying to taint a teams accomplishments becuase you know you have been called on your statements. Lufkin does not belong to be mentioned among the states top 2-3 over the last two years because well they arent.
I also think that most woud agree this year that for the most part Trinity and Carroll were among the states best, with Westfield being right bedhind them.


Yeah and the div1 champ lost to a div2 team for the 2nd straight year. In 2004 Lee lost to both div2 teams Lufkin and Longview and in 2005 Trinity lost to SGP. Believe what you want to believe but MOST would agree that div1 was clearly weaker then div2 for the 2nd year in a row. 8 of the top 10 and 16 of the top 25 were in the div2 playoffs this year. But it is pointless to try and compare 2 teams playing in 2 entirely different playoffs. Westfield right behind them? Yeah and forget teams like Katy and Lufkin? :rolleyes:

Oh on the DR vs SLC in 3 games compared to Lufkin vs SLC in 3 games here you go. There is NO COMPARISON like i expected.

SLC 52 DR 27
SLC 28 DR 7
SLC 41 DR 0 :eek: :eek:

SLC 33 Lufkin 30
SLC 37 Lufkin 30
SLC 46 Lufkin 28 And Lufkin's wr played qb.

So DR lost by a grand total of 121 to 34 to SLC They were outscored by an average of 40 to 11
Lufkin has averaged almost 30 points vs SLC while DR only scored 34 in 3 games. :eek:
Lufkin lost by a grand total of 116 to 88. So that is an average of 38-29!

BIG BIG difference. Lufkin lost by an average of 9 points to SLC why DR lost by an average of 29 points to SLC. Fact's back me again. ;)

[farmerfan]

Yeah and the div1 champ lost to a div2 team for the 2nd straight year. In 2004 Lee lost to both div2 teams Lufkin and Longview and in 2005 Trinity lost to SGP. Believe what you want to believe but MOST would agree that div1 was clearly weaker then div2 for the 2nd year in a row. 8 of the top 10 and 16 of the top 25 were in the div2 playoffs this year. But it is pointless to try and compare 2 teams playing in 2 entirely different playoffs. Westfield right behind them? Yeah and forget teams like Katy and Lufkin? :rolleyes:

Oh on the DR vs SLC in 3 games compared to Lufkin vs SLC in 3 games here you go. There is NO COMPARISON like i expected.

SLC 52 DR 27
SLC 28 DR 7
SLC 41 DR 0 :eek: :eek:

SLC 33 Lufkin 30
SLC 37 Lufkin 30
SLC 46 Lufkin 28 And Lufkin's wr played qb.

So DR lost by a grand total of 121 to 34 to SLC They were outscored by an average of 40 to 11
Lufkin has averaged almost 30 points vs SLC while DR only scored 34 in 3 games. :eek:
Lufkin lost by a grand total of 116 to 88. So that is an average of 38-29!

BIG BIG difference. Lufkin lost by an average of 9 points to SLC why DR lost by an average of 29 points to SLC. Fact's back me again. ;)


You like to bring up injuries well Westfield lost their starting QB and had he been healthy you could have seen Westfield win state. You can say it is weak all you want, it still does not take away from Trinity winning a state title. They have just as many as Lufkin adn Denton Ryan has one more than Lufkin and they have been playing football since 1995.
Once again name me 10 teams that are better than Ryan over the last 2 years?

[dragonfootballfan]

Once again name me 10 teams that are better than Ryan over the last 2 years?
I already gave him 7 teams. He can throw Lufkin in there and maybe Longview and then probably North Shore. That list is suspect, but it still is teams that may have accomplished a little more than Ryan. My list of teams that have accomplished more than Lufkin in the past 2 years still puts Lufkin on the outside looking in when it comes to his definition of elite teams.

[farmerfan]

I already gave him 7 teams. He can throw Lufkin in there and maybe Longview and then probably North Shore. That list is suspect, but it still is teams that may have accomplished a little more than Ryan. My list of teams that have accomplished more than Lufkin in the past 2 years still puts Lufkin on the outside looking in when it comes to his definition of elite teams.


I hope he puts longview on there because the last two years Ryan has played in 5 playoff games while Longview has only played in 4. North Shore has only played in 4 playoff games also.

[dragonfootballfan]

I hope he puts longview on there because the last two years Ryan has played in 5 playoff games while Longview has only played in 4. North Shore has only played in 4 playoff games also.
they do have district championships though, and although its hard to say whether Ryan would have those if they did not play in Carroll's district. They have to count for something. I don't know who else you could put in, but I can hardly remember all the teams from this season not to mention last season.

[pack0808]

I hope he puts longview on there because the last two years Ryan has played in 5 playoff games while Longview has only played in 4. North Shore has only played in 4 playoff games also.


You can definitely put Longview ahead of DR in the last 2 years. You should know a little about Longview considering they have not lost 1 single district game since moving to mostly a METROPLEX district. ;) Very simple really. Longview is 22-2 in the last 2 years and DR is 19-6. DR has 4 more losses and i believe DR finished 3rd in their district this year while Longview won the district championship. I strongly believe Longview would have beat DR by double digits both years if they met but we will never know. I can easily name more then 10 that have a better 2 year record then that but i need to get to work. I will do it later if you would like?

[dragonfootballfan]

You can definitely put Longview ahead of DR in the last 2 years. You should know a little about Longview considering they have not lost 1 single district game since moving to mostly a METROPLEX district. ;) Very simple really. Longview is 22-2 in the last 2 years and DR is 19-7. DR has 5 more losses and i believe DR finished 3rd in their district this year while Longview won the district championship. I strongly believe Longview would have beat DR by double digits both years if they met but we will never know. I can easily name more then 10 that have a better 2 year record then that but i need to get to work. I will do it later if you would like?
so records mean more than playoff victories, championships and finals appearances?

[KT2000]

It's amazing what happens to a thread in a day's time.

Lufkin has been one of the best programs (but not THE best because of Carroll) in the state the last four or five years. I think that's obvious.

Yall might want to agree to disagree on this before this thing hits 20 pages.

[pack0808]

It's amazing what happens to a thread in a day's time.

Lufkin has been one of the best programs (but not THE best because of Carroll) in the state the last four or five years. I think that's obvious.

Yall might want to agree to disagree on this before this thing hits 20 pages.


HAHA KT200!! This was not my intention at all. It started with a comment and grew to a Monster! :mad: I will stop and agree to disagree. I rarely get into a disagreement with Farmer but when we do please watch out. I thought i could argue with a wall. He is right up there with me. Neither one of us will give in. We always have to agree to disagree. What about those pro style offense's? :D

[TheDuke]

HAHA KT200!! This was not my intention at all. It started with a comment and grew to a Monster! :mad: I will stop and agree to disagree. I rarely get into a disagreement with Farmer but when we do please watch out. I thought i could argue with a wall. He is right up there with me. Neither one of us will give in. We always have to agree to disagree. What about those pro style offense's? :D

I am getting thirsty Pack! Where is my 30?

[pack0808]

I am getting thirsty Pack! Where is my 30?


Come down to Lufkin and i will hook you up and i can fnally get you off my back. :D

[toonman]

It's amazing what happens to a thread in a day's time.

Lufkin has been one of the best programs (but not THE best because of Carroll) in the state the last four or five years. I think that's obvious.

Yall might want to agree to disagree on this before this thing hits 20 pages.

Once more wise words from the 'referee'. But I have to agree. Lufkin has been a phenomenal program. Winning 5A in 2001 and Semis in 2002, 2004 and again in 2005, where on each occasion faced what is now their nemesis.

[TheDuke]

Come down to Lufkin and i will hook you up and i can fnally get you off my back. :D

WHAT?? You lost the bet, you need to come to The Woodz so I can get off your back!
:D

[pack0808]

WHAT?? You lost the bet, you need to come to The Woodz so I can get off your back!
:D


I better put on my best pair of overalls on and clean my tooth before i come to the prosperous Woodlands area with a 30 pack of some Natural Light. ;) :D I will leave the wife/sister at home.

[dragons08]

SLC 52 DR 27
SLC 28 DR 7
SLC 41 DR 0 :eek: :eek:

SLC 33 Lufkin 30
SLC 37 Lufkin 30
SLC 46 Lufkin 28 And Lufkin's wr played qb.

making an excuse huh? IMO either way carroll wins that game..

[pack0808]

making an excuse huh? IMO either way carroll wins that game..


No i am not. SLC was the better team and would have won either way. I just think it would have been much closer. Claybon was very important to Lufkin and that is a major understatement Ok back to pro style offenses and 30 packs. get your priorities straight d08! ;)

[dragons08]

No i am not. SLC was the better team and would have won either way. I just think it would have been much closer. Claybon was very important to Lufkin and that is a major understatement Ok back to pro style offenses and 30 packs. get your priorities straight d08! ;)
alright so lets see..

-chicks
-friends(could be either or, depends if oyu live by the 'bros before hoes' saying)
-school


that a good start?:D

[STJL41]

Bros before hoes. Always.

I had orginally wanted to make a comment on the whole discussion about whether or not DR would have been considered an "elite" 5A team over the past two years. After reading the last six pages of pure babble and getting bogged down in all kinds of crazy junk, better judgement prevailed. I will not continue the hijacking of this thread.

As far as the pro style offense is concerned, I have to agree with what was said oh so long ago towards the start of this thread. There are teams who are able to pull off the spread offense for now, but as high school athletes get more skilled and start to play football on an even higher level (both physically and mentally) those teams may have to switch their offensive schemes in order to score effectively. In other words, I would start to think that as the teams get better, most would shift towards the pro style.

But of course, that's just me.

[farmerfan]

You can definitely put Longview ahead of DR in the last 2 years. You should know a little about Longview considering they have not lost 1 single district game since moving to mostly a METROPLEX district. ;) Very simple really. Longview is 22-2 in the last 2 years and DR is 19-6. DR has 4 more losses and i believe DR finished 3rd in their district this year while Longview won the district championship. I strongly believe Longview would have beat DR by double digits both years if they met but we will never know. I can easily name more then 10 that have a better 2 year record then that but i need to get to work. I will do it later if you would like?


This is the last thing I will say, then I am done as well. You judeged Lufkin over Ryan because of their semifinals apperances, however Ryan and Longview both have a 1st round exit, while Longview lost in the regional semis while Ryan advanced to the Reegional finals. In that time span Ryan was 3-2 in playoff games while Longview was 2-2, wouldnt that say Ryan has been more impressive than the Lobos?
Alrighty no more.

[farmerfan]

HAHA KT200!! This was not my intention at all. It started with a comment and grew to a Monster! :mad: I will stop and agree to disagree. I rarely get into a disagreement with Farmer but when we do please watch out. I thought i could argue with a wall. He is right up there with me. Neither one of us will give in. We always have to agree to disagree. What about those pro style offense's? :D


you can say that again, put the women and children to bed, its going to get nasty.

Also you are dead on oin that. I have been known a time or two to argue about some stupid things.

[Primetime536]

First of all I asked in the last two years. All of those games before the 2004 season do not matter in this discussion. Denton Ryan is an elite team. They were not at that level last year, but they were the year before. Lufkin may have been in the strongest region this year, but Lufkin did not play the most impressive teams.

6-5 Harker Heights
10-2 Hays
8-5 South Garland
13-1 Cove

Cove was good, but they were the first good team that Lufkin played before they were beat by the only "elite" team that they played this year. I think that Cove is right on par with SGP, the team that Denton Ryan lost to in the playoffs.

Another thing that makes Ryan elite in my mind is that they do not make up excuses after losses. They do not mention anything about refs or headsets. If they lose they take it like a man. They are a respectable bunch of people and that makes them elite.
This guy is stupid. He talks about these teams like he knows something about them. Know your **** before you talk. Harker Heights was very good last year, cove was great, S Garland played great in the playoffs, Hays had a gread offense led by waters. Some of you SLC ****** dont know anything. Yall assume every team whos not on the same level as SLC, Lufkin, Katy, etc is bad. Drive you rich *** around texas and watch a few game SLC isnt in and tell me HH,Hays,Cove,and SG arnt good teams.

[farmerfan]

This guy is stupid. He talks about these teams like he knows something about them. Know your **** before you talk. Harker Heights was very good last year, cove was great, S Garland played great in the playoffs, Hays had a gread offense led by waters. Some of you SLC ****** dont know anything. Yall assume every team whos not on the same level as SLC, Lufkin, Katy, etc is bad. Drive you rich *** around texas and watch a few game SLC isnt in and tell me HH,Hays,Cove,and SG arnt good teams.


Prime
Dont get so offensive, and dont turn to name calling, its uncalled for. He was using those teams as examples to describe other teams, Lufkin struggled with a 6-5 HH team, a recoprd worse than what Ryan had. Cove was not great, they were good but not great, SGP was most likely on their level. He was not putting down other teams, sometimes you take things to personal.

[drgnbkr]

This guy is stupid. He talks about these teams like he knows something about them. Know your **** before you talk. Harker Heights was very good last year, cove was great, S Garland played great in the playoffs, Hays had a gread offense led by waters. Some of you SLC ****** dont know anything. Yall assume every team whos not on the same level as SLC, Lufkin, Katy, etc is bad. Drive you rich *** around texas and watch a few game SLC isnt in and tell me HH,Hays,Cove,and SG arnt good teams.

Maybe you need to find a board and carry on a conversation with people your own age...which is what? About 12? Get a grip..and maybe a clue....drive your dumb a___ outta here..ok? I apologize to this board for my reaction..but not to this knucklehead..Drive by posters are the worst & I let him get under my skin...

[Primetime536]

....

[drgnbkr]

Oh god listen to this.
So what do you want me to do? Go to a highschool website? Wait.....What is this site? A HIGHSCHOOL football site? Wow that cant be....Dude im where I belong, a site about highschool sports. You ******* *******. Get over your pathetic self and relize that just because SLC is great in football doesnt mean school like HH arnt good at football. By the way, im 16......How old you? 50? Some hypocrit you are. Telling me to get on a site that fits my age group when your on a highschool forum at the age of 50.:eek:


Priiiiiimetiiiime...pathetic...our country's in good hands huh? I don't know enough about harker heights to comment, & if you'd look at my thread instead of vapor locking, you'd see I have never commented on it one way or the other....go find a clue..

[Primetime536]

Priiiiiimetiiiime...pathetic...our country's in good hands huh? I don't know enough about harker heights to comment, & if you'd look at my thread instead of vapor locking, you'd see I have never commented on it one way or the other....go find a clue..
A drive by poster? You act like I came on this board yesterday just to annoy people.

[pack0808]

Bros before hoes. Always.

I had orginally wanted to make a comment on the whole discussion about whether or not DR would have been considered an "elite" 5A team over the past two years. After reading the last six pages of pure babble and getting bogged down in all kinds of crazy junk, better judgement prevailed. I will not continue the hijacking of this thread.

As far as the pro style offense is concerned, I have to agree with what was said oh so long ago towards the start of this thread. There are teams who are able to pull off the spread offense for now, but as high school athletes get more skilled and start to play football on an even higher level (both physically and mentally) those teams may have to switch their offensive schemes in order to score effectively. In other words, I would start to think that as the teams get better, most would shift towards the pro style.


But of course, that's just me.




I am glad that me and farmer could provide you with pure babble and crazy junk. We do have a purpose! ;) It is just 2 friends discussing a little football. I apologize if i hijacked the thread.


Primetime, why do you have to respond like that man? You sound envious when you do that? I thought you had decent points about some of those teams you mentioned but then you had to get all ugly for no real reason. Not necessary. drgnbkr is a very good guy and a classy poster. I have nothing but respect for poster's like that.

[farmerfan]

I am glad that me and farmer could provide you with pure babble and crazy junk. We do have a purpose! ;) It is just 2 friends discussing a little football. I apologize if i hijacked the thread.


Primetime, why do you have to respond like that man? You sound envious when you do that? I thought you had decent points about some of those teams you mentioned but then you had to get all ugly for no real reason. Not necessary. drgnbkr is a very good guy and a classy poster. I have nothing but respect for poster's like that.


I guess its true, what goes around comes around. I made fun of one of my professors at school cause all he does is Babble, I even call one of my friends "Peter" this profs first name cause when he is around us he babbles. Glad to know I can now call myself "Peter" the babbler.

[pack0808]

I guess its true, what goes around comes around. I made fun of one of my professors at school cause all he does is Babble, I even call one of my friends "Peter" this profs first name cause when he is around us he babbles. Glad to know I can now call myself "Peter" the babbler.


Protect the tradition! ;)