Could any Texas team stand up to this St. Thomas Aquinas team

[bleedblue]

On ESPN right now is the Herbstreit Classic featuring St. Thomas Aquinas in Florida against Upper Arlington in Ohio, there is 1:35 to go in the 1st half and its 28-0 St. Thomas, they are absolutely destroying the Ohio team every play. So obviously this Ohio team isn't any good, but could any Texas teams take on this Florida team?

[Bass]

Actually, they're just starting the second quarter. Still 28-0, but Upper Arlington has just picked up their first first downs on this drive with two. Ball on the 50...

I can't imagine Katy being this well off tonight, even if they were playing a fairly poor team.

[228boot@9]

I watched the first quarter and saw everything I needed to see. Can you play defense any worse against the option than what that Ohio team is doing? Wow just not even on the same level of play I was dissapointed. BUT to answer your question yes I think there would be several teams from texas and elswhere who could play with aquinas but not these guys. Defense is completely lost and Aquinas is just too much for these kids.

[twcpfan1]

Doesn't look like it. They're good, well rounded and they're confident.

Texas teams have fallen in love with the spread too much. It hurts us.

[F18mustang]

Not a good measuring stick. Aquinas is good but Upper Arlington is terrible. If they we're blowing out a team that it ranked in the nation the yes, Id give them those accolades.

[dada]

Are they that good, or is Upper Arlington that bad?

[LoboFan07]

Can you play defense any worse against the option than what that Ohio team is doing? Wow just not even on the same level of play I was dissapointed.

My thoughts exactly.

[twcpfan1]

Are they that good, or is Upper Arlington that bad?

Bit of Both

In any case the mythical #1 that was bestowed upon them was no fluke. They're good.

[cougmantx]

Doesn't look like it. They're good, well rounded and they're confident.

Texas teams have fallen in love with the spread too much. It hurts us.

Well I agree with you on the spread. Give me a pro set any day for an exciting game. I think we are going to see some changes in the offenses in Texas as more teams catch on to defending against the spread.

I think Katy, Trinity, and possibly a few others could give them a game.

[Southlake Carroll Dragons]

The Top Ten in the state could play with these guys. Id say top 5 in the state could beat them.

[twcpfan1]

The Top Ten in the state could play with these guys. Id say top 5 in the state could beat them.

No way.

[Mr. Sir Charger]

The Top Ten in the state could play with these guys. Id say top 5 in the state could beat them.be real. Please

[twcpfan1]

Glad the NS Katy game is on TV tonight. We'll probably be more qualified to answer the thread question after we see tonight's game.

I don't think any of the ones that played Friday can hang with STA.

[cougmantx]

Are they that good, or is Upper Arlington that bad?

I think Upper Arlington is that bad.

[RP-3]

Glad the NS Katy game is on TV tonight. We'll probably be more qualified to answer the thread question after we see tonight's game.

I don't think any of the ones that played Friday can hang with STA.

Will the game only be showne in the Houston area?

[mcamp002]

Glad the NS Katy game is on TV tonight. We'll probably be more qualified to answer the thread question after we see tonight's game.

I don't think any of the ones that played Friday can hang with STA.

What station is it going to be on? I'm in Cove would love to watch it!

[twcpfan1]

Well I agree with you on the spread. Give me a pro set any day for an exciting game. I think we are going to see some changes in the offenses in Texas as more teams catch on to defending against the spread.

I think Katy, Trinity, and possibly a few others could give them a game.

I don't know what Trinity brings to the table in 09. But the 07 D1 champs would not be able to hang with this team if that's any indication. They bring a hell of a lot more to the table than the Judson team they beat by only 3.

2007 Katy might give them a good game. I have not seen the 09 version yet,

[twcpfan1]

What station is it going to be on? I'm in Cove would love to watch it!

Houston KTBU. Not sure if you guys get it way up there.

[twcpfan1]

Will the game only be showne in the Houston area?

Unfortunately . It was originally slotted to be on ESPN but they decided to go with Cedar Hill Desoto instead.

[cougmantx]

I don't know what Trinity brings to the table in 09. But the 07 D1 champs would not be able to hang with this team if that's any indication. They bring a hell of a lot more to the table than the Judson team they beat by only 3.

2007 Katy might give them a good game. I have not seen the 09 version yet,

Come to think of it I have to agree about Trinity. The only reason I included them was because they usually have a great defense.

None of us have seen the 09 version of the Tigers yet...but I think we will know more tonight. If they live up to some of our expectations they could be the best team Katy has fielded. Hope springs eternal...:D

[TheBigPeach]

Upper Arlington isn't that great. They make the playoffs every year but they are not the best Ohio has to offer by any stretch of the means. On the other hand, I think St. Thomas is legit

[33Blood]

There are Texas teams with the speed to keep up with St. Thomas. This team from Ohio doesn't have it.

[BlakeJ]

Are they that good, or is Upper Arlington that bad?

Tha was my first thought after about 5 minutes of the game. UA not that good.

[maxtor]

On ESPN right now is the Herbstreit Classic featuring St. Thomas Aquinas in Florida against Upper Arlington in Ohio, there is 1:35 to go in the 1st half and its 28-0 St. Thomas, they are absolutely destroying the Ohio team every play. So obviously this Ohio team isn't any good, but could any Texas teams take on this Florida team?

Abilene Cooper was ahead of OD Wyatt 56-0 in the third quarter last night. And no one cares and it really doesn't mean much destroying an OD Wyatt team.
Even bad teams blow out other bad teams 50-0 all the time. You have to destroy top flight teams to get credit as a national power.
Not saying that STA isnt the best in the country but winning by 28-0 in the first half isnt big news at all.

[Kingwolf]

not that it matters...nor am I saying that STA is afraid, but I did send their AD an email with Longview's contact info as they had an open week and were looking for a game the same week as Longview before we scheduled Natchitoches....


In regards to could any team hang with them..I say sure...it would take a fast disciplined defense and a solid offense....Katy, GPNS, Allen, LT....

[E-Vol-ution]

Both......St. A's is the real deal and Upper A would get their "A" handed to them by the Cincinnati teams or even Glenville for that matter.Are they that good, or is Upper Arlington that bad?

[dada]

Don't get me wrong, STA is a great team, I just don't think Canes can get on here again and talk about "Hand picked opponets"..would love to see STA and a top team. The Brynes(sp?) game should be better, Upper Arlington looks like Morton Ranch could beat them.

[Allstarkaw]

Those Upper Arlington Kids Must Feel REALLY Embarrased... Getting Blown Out On National TV..

[MemorialMustangs]

I think Katy would beat them

[steeler 01]

I think there would be several teams from texas and elswhere who could play with aquinas but not these guys. Defense is completely lost and Aquinas is just too much for these kids.

Agree, but number 26 and number 7 are great HB's. There builds are perfect for the college level. 26 reminded me of Marc Tyler.

[stinger]

I don't know what Trinity brings to the table in 09. But the 07 D1 champs would not be able to hang with this team if that's any indication. They bring a hell of a lot more to the table than the Judson team they beat by only 3.

2007 Katy might give them a good game. I have not seen the 09 version yet,


Yes, Trinity 05 could. Any given day could be totally different. Trinity was playing to win, a lineweaver style as everybody knows.

[DawgDave]

Upper Arlington used to be in the upper echelon of Ohio HS football, but it's been years since they were up there.
They need to play Cincinnati Moeller, Cleveland St. Ignatius or Cleveland Glenville. If they beat one of those then they can brag.

[TrinityTrojan80]

On ESPN right now is the Herbstreit Classic featuring St. Thomas Aquinas in Florida against Upper Arlington in Ohio, there is 1:35 to go in the 1st half and its 28-0 St. Thomas, they are absolutely destroying the Ohio team every play. So obviously this Ohio team isn't any good, but could any Texas teams take on this Florida team?

They are real good but you can't really tell because I don't think there is a lot of tallent on the other team. I don't see STA going through the gauntlet of Texas playoffs. Trinity would give them a good game!

[GBMonster76]

The Top Ten in the state could play with these guys. Id say top 5 in the state could beat them.

There are plenty of teams in Texas that could play with St. Thomas this year, but I don't think this St. Thomas team is beatable. They are kind of a perfect team right now. They can throw, they have 2 major D1 running backs, a couple D1 lineman one being a major recruit, and their defense has 1 5-star DB, 2 4-star DB's, and a 3-star DB... not to mention a D1 linebacker and one of the best coaching staffs in the country. This is just a machine program and they are at the top of their game right now. They play Byrnes (who is LOADED) this year at home, so we'll see what they do then.

[maxtor]

There are plenty of teams in Texas that could play with St. Thomas this year, but I don't think this St. Thomas team is beatable. They are kind of a perfect team right now. They can throw, they have 2 major D1 running backs, a couple D1 lineman one being a major recruit, and their defense has 1 5-star DB, 2 4-star DB's, and a 3-star DB... not to mention a D1 linebacker and one of the best coaching staffs in the country. This is just a machine program and they are at the top of their game right now. They play Byrnes (who is LOADED) this year at home, so we'll see what they do then.

Pretty impressive list of D1 talent. Then again De LaSalle beat LB Poly who had 23 D1 players.
Even if STA was the best in the country this doesnt translate to guaranteed wins against other nationally ranked teams.
STA will get the chance to prove themselves a few times this year. They could very well ride the #1 ranking all the way. Good luck to them.:)

[SLC]

Yes.

[steeler 01]

Pretty impressive list of D1 talent. Then again De LaSalle beat LB Poly who had 23 D1 players.
Even if STA was the best in the country this doesnt translate to guaranteed wins against other nationally ranked teams.
STA will get the chance to prove themselves a few times this year. They could very well ride the #1 ranking all the way. Good luck to them.:)

DLS was also loaded with d1 talent, and even had some guys that made it in to the NFL. Those NFL guys are: Maurice Jones Drew, Derek Landri and Matt Gutierrez.

[TrojanHorse03]

Pretty impressive list of D1 talent. Then again De LaSalle beat LB Poly who had 23 D1 players.
Even if STA was the best in the country this doesnt translate to guaranteed wins against other nationally ranked teams.
STA will get the chance to prove themselves a few times this year. They could very well ride the #1 ranking all the way. Good luck to them.:)

Well said.

[maxtor]

DLS was also loaded with d1 talent, and even had some guys that made it in to the NFL. Those NFL guys are: Maurice Jones Drew, Derek Landri and Matt Gutierrez.

Point taken but this assumes that there are no teams that STA would face that also had D1 talent this year. DLS did have their share of D1 talent but certainly pales next to what Poly had.
All in all the point is is that D1 talent doesnt guarantee wins against other nationally ranked teams which is what was being implied by some in which I felt compelled to reply.

[steeler 01]

Point taken but this assumes that there are no teams that STA would face that also had D1 talent this year. DLS did have their share of D1 talent but certainly pales next to what Poly had.
All in all the point is is that D1 talent doesnt guarantee wins against other nationally ranked teams which is what was being implied by some in which I felt compelled to reply.

Thing is, not all D1 talent is created equal. Both teams can have 15 division 1 players, but it doesn't mean their equally talented. In the game between DLS-Poly MJD, and Derek Landri were the two most talented players on the field.

[DownSouth]

Nice win to start the season, but not anything to brag about. We know they're nowhere near the elite of Ohio. (Although Aquinas apparently did want St. Iggy but were given UA instead)

UA is a decent team, coming off a 10-2 season and a playoff berth. From what I saw, they're probably a slight step down from last year's Cy Bay team that got beat down by Katy.

After Aquinas plays Byrnes is when it'll be easier to tell how other top teams stack up against them.

- Byrnes started slow tonight, but did win 43-7, albeit against a weaker opponent than UA.

[BuckeyeDave]

Are they that good, or is Upper Arlington that bad?

UA has been on a downslide for a while. They won the Division I (our 5A) state title in 2000, the only non-Cincinnati or Cleveland school to do so in years, and have been on a rollercoaster ever since. They're a landlocked district (much like Spring Branch ISD here in Houston) with only one school and most of the talent has moved farther out to the newer suburbs.
I am surprised UA got into this game. There had to be many other more deserving teams.

[Bass]

Katy would not have beat them tonight. No way, no how.

[yankee]

i'm not sure why several people have mentioned trinity being able to beat STA...trinity is a very unproven team this year, unlike in the last few years...i say any other year within the last few years and yes, trinity can hang with these guys...

[GBMonster76]

Well, if Cedar Hill is a top 5 team in Texas, I don't think there's any team in Texas that could beat St. Thomas Aquinas.

But, I would just say...from a common sense stance... SLC, Trinity, Allen, Katy, North Shore, etc... all the usual suspects from Texas could play with St. Thomas this year. BUT...guess what...

Miami Northwestern is LOADED again this year...as is Miami Central. Would be nice to see one of those two teams play a Texas school as well. Lakeland is loaded again too.

Not going to happen this year... shucks.

[twcpfan1]

Katy would not have beat them tonight. No way, no how.

Based on Week 0, you are correct. In fact not one Texas team would even come close.

[TrinityTrojan80]

i'm not sure why several people have mentioned trinity being able to beat STA...trinity is a very unproven team this year, unlike in the last few years...i say any other year within the last few years and yes, trinity can hang with these guys...


I said Trinity would give them a good game.

I'm not sure what Trinity has this year but soon enough we will see. i know that this is not different than other years, we always have to replace starters but at Trinity we are 3 deep in most positions and the starter is usually a senor since that breaks the tie. I already know we will be real good next year as well.:D

[SLC]

Based on Week 0, you are correct. In fact not one Texas team would even come close.

Just stop man, come on, you are pulling a steeler01 on us. You are determining that by watching a team ON TV against bad competition. Just stop it.


I know you haven't seen all the Texas teams either, seriously dude. Knee jerk, you have it!

[yankee]

I said Trinity would give them a good game.

I'm not sure what Trinity has this year but soon enough we will see. i know that this is not different than other years, we always have to replace starters but at Trinity we are 3 deep in most positions and the starter is usually a senor since that breaks the tie. I already know we will be real good next year as well.:D

just curious, because i don't know...but when was the last time trinity had to replace 18 starters?

[stinger]

i'm not sure why several people have mentioned trinity being able to beat STA...trinity is a very unproven team this year, unlike in the last few years...i say any other year within the last few years and yes, trinity can hang with these guys...


EVERY team is unproven for the first few games, even STA. The win might turn against them with overconfidence next time. Yes, Trinity has to show their stuff next week. But if the scrimmage is any indicator, they have some new stuff that will surprise everybody. ;)

[Hitman49]

Glad the NS Katy game is on TV tonight. We'll probably be more qualified to answer the thread question after we see tonight's game.

I don't think any of the ones that played Friday can hang with STA.

Dude- I personally watched 4 Texas teams on TV Saturday that could play with them.

Cedar Hill
Desoto
Duncanville
Odessa Permian

Let's see how they do with Byrnes SC, who is not going roll over and play dead!!

[twcpfan1]

Just stop man, come on, you are pulling a steeler01 on us. You are determining that by watching a team ON TV against bad competition. Just stop it.


I know you haven't seen all the Texas teams either, seriously dude. Knee jerk, you have it!

Well I wasn't going to fly to Ohio to watch it. And I fear for my life at Rhodes Stadium :D (I was actually at Reliant). So TV was the best I could do.

STA looked efficient for so early in the year. Not their fault their opponents could not hang with them. They might have a lot to do with why UA looked so bad.

[twcpfan1]

Dude- I personally watched 4 Texas teams on TV Saturday that could play with them.

Cedar Hill
Desoto
Duncanville
Odessa Permian

Let's see how they do with Byrnes SC, who is not going roll over and play dead!!

Wouldn't matter. They could kick the living crap out of Byrnes and we Texas boys will still say they suck. Some SLC fans are still maintaining to this day that they are better than MNW and should have won. And that game was actually played... in Dallas.

[CaneDadCat5]

On ESPN right now is the Herbstreit Classic featuring St. Thomas Aquinas in Florida against Upper Arlington in Ohio, there is 1:35 to go in the 1st half and its 28-0 St. Thomas, they are absolutely destroying the Ohio team every play. So obviously this Ohio team isn't any good, but could any Texas teams take on this Florida team?

I watched the same game 1 of 5 Highschool football games for the weekend. (Including my son's game on JV). I know for a fact that the team from Ohio had no speed. Lufkin, Northshore, Trinity, would have given them fits because of their pass rush and defensive backfield speed. Linebackers would have to be discipline as well as the ends. Offensively, once the Upper Arlington got behind by such a wide margin, they had no choice but to press the pass. Granted, Aquinas is very very good and are a very disciplined group. We have teams who are capable of winning against them. It would have to be a game scheduled the 3-5 weeks of the season due to our limitations on practice and two aday schedules.

[TrojanHorse03]

Let's see how they do with Byrnes SC, who is not going roll over and play dead!!

I wouldn't look to Byrnes either who I'll say right now won't get beat like the Florida teams last year, but will get beat by 2 touchdowns or more at Aquinas. But rankings and everything mean nothing, we'll never no unless these teams play on the field.

[maxtor]

Thing is, not all D1 talent is created equal. Both teams can have 15 division 1 players, but it doesn't mean their equally talented. In the game between DLS-Poly MJD, and Derek Landri were the two most talented players on the field.

Again, your assuming that there are no other teams in the country with NFL bound talent such as DLS had in which STA could possibly lose to.
The fact is is that more talented teams lose to lesser talented teams all the time.
Granted, my referencing the Poly/DLS game may not be an air tight example and as such has led to this tangent to the original topic. Still, even though Poly may have not possesssed the MOST talented few players they still had far more D1 players.
There have been no shortage of STA's that were touted as the greatest thing since sliced bread only to fall the next week to some non name team much less top teams.
There is no substitute for playing other great teams. Beating so-so teams by 50 doesn't mean a lot.

[Firebird]

Back on topic, I would say that there will be several teams in Texas that could stay on the field with STA. However, as hard as it is to swallow, it is possible that the best team in the nation may not be from Texas every year.

[maxtor]

Wouldn't matter. They could kick the living crap out of Byrnes and we Texas boys will still say they suck. Some SLC fans are still maintaining to this day that they are better than MNW and should have won. And that game was actually played... in Dallas.

SLC could have certainly been a better team than MNW. That game proved that MNW won on that day and SLC did NOT deserve to win anything except respect. MNW made fewer mistakes and had more points and deserved the win.
Better teams lose to lesser teams every day and you know it.
Whether your the Super Bowl champs, Tiger Woods, Garry Kasparov or Colonal Sanders you will and DO lose. There is no way for you to quantify that MNW was better as an overall team over the course of a season.
:rolleyes:

[businesstron]

It's really too early to say. They beat up on a really crappy Ohio team in my opinion. It could end up being that teams like Katy or Northshore or heck.... SLC can play with em but we'll just have to see......

[yankee]

Wouldn't matter. They could kick the living crap out of Byrnes and we Texas boys will still say they suck. Some SLC fans are still maintaining to this day that they are better than MNW and should have won. And that game was actually played... in Dallas.

could you point out these fans if you don't mind?

[twcpfan1]

could you point out these fans if you don't mind?

Just look 2 posts above yours.

[steeler 01]

Dude- I personally watched 4 Texas teams on TV Saturday that could play with them.

Cedar Hill
Desoto
Duncanville
Odessa Permian

Let's see how they do with Byrnes SC, who is not going roll over and play dead!!

LMAO at thinking those two teams could play with STA.

[Football4life]

Based on Week 0, you are correct. In fact not one Texas team would even come close.

I disagree. football has alot to do with match-ups, a slow Ohio team has no chance against a fast Florida team... We saw this is less dramitic effect last year when Klein Forest knocked off one of Ohios top teams cause they couldn't keep up with KF's speed... And Klein Forest isn't a unbeatable team by any means

[SLC]

Wouldn't matter. They could kick the living crap out of Byrnes and we Texas boys will still say they suck. Some SLC fans are still maintaining to this day that they are better than MNW and should have won. And that game was actually played... in Dallas.



That's where you are wrong and if you were a knowledgeable fan of teams other than what you see around the Woodland area then you would know that Byrnes is very very good and if STA beats them, even by a point, then they will be given due respect by a great many fans here in Texas, especially the ones that are knowledgeable on a national level.

Just dont summarily dismiss Texas teams because you watched a game against a team that YOU could beat with 21 girls.

[SLC]

Back on topic, I would say that there will be several teams in Texas that could stay on the field with STA. However, as hard as it is to swallow, it is possible that the best team in the nation may not be from Texas every year.



I agree with all of that.

Its not real hard for me to say that Texas IS NOT Gods gift to high school football.

[twcpfan1]

That's where you are wrong and if you were a knowledgeable fan of teams other than what you see around the Woodland area then you would know that Byrnes is very very good and if STA beats them, even by a point, then they will be given due respect by a great many fans here in Texas, especially the ones that are knowledgeable on a national level.

Just dont summarily dismiss Texas teams because you watched a game against a team that you could beat with 21 girls.

I'm not doubting your word that Byrnes are good and any team that beats them should be given its due credit. I also have no doubt that there are plenty of Texas fans and fans on this board who won't because of blind homerism. Even some who claim to have knowledge at a national level

[TrojanHorse03]

But I'd also say those who have genuine respect for other states football aren't as loud as those who do, and often choose avoid to avoid dealing with the bias slants coming from both sides. STA may be the best team in the nation, but not because of a rout of Upper Arllington nor would that gurantee a win against whoever turns out to be Texas' best. As we're reminded every week, every single week polls are nothing more than an opinion.

[twcpfan1]

But I'd also say those who have genuine respect for other states football aren't as loud as those who do, and often choose avoid to avoid dealing with the bias slants coming from both sides. STA may be the best team in the nation, but not because of a rout of Upper Arllington nor would that gurantee a win against whoever turns out to be Texas' best. As we're reminded every week, every single week polls are nothing more than an opinion.

Absolutely. Well said.

[SLC]

I'm not doubting your word that Byrnes are good and any team that beats them should be given its due credit. I also have no doubt that there are plenty of Texas fans and fans on this board who won't because of blind homerism. Even some who claim to have knowledge at a national level


Sadly you are correct. There are some who wont say anothers states team can be good at all. I certainly dont and wont think that way at all, as I said above...Texas IS NOT Gods gift to high school football.

[SLC]

But I'd also say those who have genuine respect for other states football aren't as loud as those who do, and often choose avoid to avoid dealing with the bias slants coming from both sides. STA may be the best team in the nation, but not because of a rout of Upper Arllington nor would that gurantee a win against whoever turns out to be Texas' best. As we're reminded every week, every single week polls are nothing more than an opinion.


Exactly right, on all counts.

[TrinityTrojan80]

just curious, because i don't know...but when was the last time trinity had to replace 18 starters?

I'm not sure but we come close many years, like I said when you have a team with great depth the starter is just the one who starts.
It's ok if you can't agree with me but we have replaced all them starters.

As to whether they are effective replacements we will have to wait and see.
Please watch a game or to of Trinity and let me know what you think. We will be on TV Labor Day if you can catch it.

Good Luck!!

[Hitman49]

Based on Week 0, you are correct. In fact not one Texas team would even come close.

You guys are killing me...That Ohio team was not very good at all!!!

[Hitman49]

LMAO at thinking those two teams could play with STA.

Steeler- you are blind if you don't believe that Cedar Hill and Desoto could stay on the field with STA!!

[Hitman49]

Well, if Cedar Hill is a top 5 team in Texas, I don't think there's any team in Texas that could beat St. Thomas Aquinas.

But, I would just say...from a common sense stance... SLC, Trinity, Allen, Katy, North Shore, etc... all the usual suspects from Texas could play with St. Thomas this year. BUT...guess what...

Miami Northwestern is LOADED again this year...as is Miami Central. Would be nice to see one of those two teams play a Texas school as well. Lakeland is loaded again too.

Not going to happen this year... shucks.

At this point is does not really matter if Cedar Hill is top 5 or not. They would give STA a very good game!!

[Texasfrog]

You guys are killing me...That Ohio team was not very good at all!!!

The Ohio team was and is awful. We'll see how they do in Ohio during the season however.

STA is a very good team. Of coarse most people from Florida will tell you they cant be beat by anyone anywhere in the country. They've been labeled #1. Again, they are a Private School "Football Factory" in Broward County, Florida that has the luxary of getting annually some of the best talented athletes (ie. Football players) to transfer into their "Football factory" for the dream of being recognized by college scouts and playing for State Titles.

It's also the reason why STA will totally embarrass "EVERYONE" they play against in Florida this year also. I'll be surprised if there is one game STA plays against anyone in Florida that is under a 21 point spread.

The Byrnes vs STA game should be interesting. It wont be a blowout either way and we'll see how STA handles getting slapped back in the face on every play. Something they "DONT SEE IN FLORIDA" the past couple of years.

Also, the Florida dude that is trying to SPIN-IT that this Upper Arlington, Ohio team is on par with last years Cypress Bay, Fl team.. PLEEEEASEE give it a rest bro. It's still killing you that Katy butt spanked Cypress Bay last year.

Re: Other States.. Like I've said from the first moment I came on this board several years ago. There are many strong High School teams around the nation each year. Many of these teams are Private School "Sports Academies" or Sport Magnet programs but there are good teams around the nation. What does and still seperates Texas from other States isnt that the #1 team is always in Texas. It's that the DEPTH OF TEAMS and CALIBER OF PLAY in Texas from Top to bottom is much better than any other State and yes that includes Florida.

Re: STA and the question. Yes, there is several teams in Texas that can play with STA from the terms of talent, speed , size and depth. There is several teams in Texas that can toe to toe with them.

Also, the guys that says STA is probably too tough because they have two D-1A RB's. Wow dude, get real please. There is many Texas High school teams that have two D-1A RB's prospects on the team.

Hitman, what's up.

[Texasfrog]

At this point is does not really matter if Cedar Hill is top 5 or not. They would give STA a very good game!!

Just ask Steeler what happened to the Cali team playing against the OHio team on ESPNU? I just finished watching that game and the California team was a freaking joke beyond belief. I'm guessing it wont take Steeler long to start yapping how there is like 200 High school teams out in California much better than that Lancers California team that just got embarrassed by that Ohio team.

[Texasfrog]

At this point is does not really matter if Cedar Hill is top 5 or not. They would give STA a very good game!!

Yes, Cedar Hill and DeSoto would play a very tough game against STA. From a coaching, talent, speed , depth and size standpoint they would go toe-toe with STA.

I would of really liked to seen this STA team play Dallas Skyline this season. I'm pretty sure there isnt a team in America this season that has more Senior Talent (D-1A prospects) than Dallas Skyline.

[Hitman49]

Just ask Steeler what happened to the Cali team playing against the OHio team on ESPNU? I just finished watching that game and the California team was a freaking joke beyond belief. I'm guessing it wont take Steeler long to start yapping how there is like 200 High school teams out in California much better than that Lancers California team that just got embarrassed by that Ohio team.

Texas Frog- nice to have you back...He has talked good about Orange Luthern in the past!!lol

[CollegeLevelAthletes.com]

There should be annual games between Texas and California teams. There has to be a more in depth discussion on this topic. I think the best way to compare is by highlight videos (http://collegelevelathletes.com/video) and see which players perform the best.

Build a database of high school football recruiting videos (http://collegelevelathletes.com/video) on College Level Athletes (http://collegelevelathletes.com)site, which is basically a Myspace or Facebook, but for student-athletes. Coaches, recruiters, parents, fans, and anyone interested can log-on to College Level Athletes (http://collegelevelathletes.com) and post videos (http://www.collegelevelathletes.com/node/add/video/youtube), photos, watch videos, and much more.

Search Texas players such as Jaxon Shipley (http://www.collegelevelathletes.com/college-level-athletes-jaxon-shipley-junior-WR-coppell-texas-high-school), Taylor Bible (http://www.collegelevelathletes.com/node/151), Jackson Jeffcoat (http://www.collegelevelathletes.com/jackson-jeffcoat-high-school-football-recruit-2010-DE-texas-preps-son-of-NFL-legend-jim-jeffcoat), Connor Wood (http://www.collegelevelathletes.com/connor-wood-texas-longhorns-QB-commit-second-baptist-HS-verbal-2010), and many others.

[85Roughneck]

... could any Texas teams take on this Florida team?

several

[DownSouth]

Also, the Florida dude that is trying to SPIN-IT that this Upper Arlington, Ohio team is on par with last years Cypress Bay, Fl team.. PLEEEEASEE give it a rest bro. It's still killing you that Katy butt spanked Cypress Bay last year.




And the BS train has pulled in.:rolleyes:

Smart one, I could care less that 10-2 CY bay lost to state champ Katy last year. They were the #32 team in the state. No big deal. Katy won a state title. Spin comes only from you; everyone aside from Hitman can see it (Hitman has some kind of man crush on you if you hadn't noticed).

Cy Bay and UA both went 10-2 last year, both weren't very fast (in terms of FL teams), and aside from Cy Bay's LB's their D was as slow and as weak, especially up front. That was all the comparison was, though I'm not surprised that you missed that. And who else would I compare them to? - Some random team from Arizona or Rhode Island that I've never seen play? - Yeah, that would make sense.:rolleyes:

I also said they were a slight step down. Meaning I thought Cy Bay was better.:rolleyes:

Your own fellow Texans think you're a joke, dude. Quit while you're ahead. I would hate for you to stop posting again, like you did when SLC lost to MNW in Texas.

Such a goof.:rolleyes:;)

[DownSouth]

Yes, Cedar Hill and DeSoto would play a very tough game against STA. From a coaching, talent, speed , depth and size standpoint they would go toe-toe with STA.

I would of really liked to seen this STA team play Dallas Skyline this season. I'm pretty sure there isnt a team in America this season that has more Senior Talent (D-1A prospects) than Dallas Skyline.



Oh yeah, because if there was one thing Desoto showed last night, was that they had one coach that keeps a level head.:rolleyes:

He's def as good as George Smith and staff.;)

Then you just get even sillier.:rolleyes:

There's plenty of teams in Texas that could give a great game to STA. Skyline is probably one that would be a good matchup, along with the usual 4-7 teams that always go 3-4 rounds deep in the playoffs no matter the year.

I do doubt that CH and Desoto are on that list of teams though.

[steeler 01]

Just ask Steeler what happened to the Cali team playing against the OHio team on ESPNU? I just finished watching that game and the California team was a freaking joke beyond belief. I'm guessing it wont take Steeler long to start yapping how there is like 200 High school teams out in California much better than that Lancers California team that just got embarrassed by that Ohio team.

Orange Lutheran is good, and I expect them to have a solid season(9-3 or something along those lines). I think it was a bad match up for them. Pickerington Central was a very good team. Their coming off a 13-1 semi final loss to Elder in division 1, and the year prior were 11-1. So that wasn't just some Ohio team.;) Thats one of the better Ohio teams.

Orange Lutheran>>>>>>Clovis East


One more thing. Since when is 28-14 getting embarrassed? The game was 21-14 late in the 4th quarter.

[steeler 01]

Yes, Cedar Hill and DeSoto would play a very tough game against STA. From a coaching, talent, speed , depth and size standpoint they would go toe-toe with STA.



LMAO...................... Typical clown. DeSoto needs to find a QB that can throw the long ball before they could take down a team like STA. STA would stack the box, and pick off the ducks by the DeSoto QB. Game would get ugly real fast.

Cedar Hill can't stop the run.


STA-Desoto STA by 30+

STA-Cedar Hill STA by 20+

[Hitman49]

LMAO...................... Typical clown. DeSoto needs to find a QB that can throw the long ball before they could take down a team like STA. STA would stack the box, and pick off the ducks by the DeSoto QB. Game would get ugly real fast.

Cedar Hill can't stop the run.


STA-Desoto STA by 30+

STA-Cedar Hill STA by 20+

No you are wrong. #1 the qb for Desoto will go Div 1 if he does his work in the class room. STA is not so stupid to stack the box against a team like Desoto and the big time athletes they have out wide...

Your problem is that you do not know how to judge talent and quality high level football when two good teams are playing...Maybe it is because you are from cal.lol

[E-Vol-ution]

Yeah....the way top Cali team Orange Lutheran just got pimp slapped against a mid level rebuilding Pickerington team in Ohio says a lot about your judgement........lol.
They were on of your top ten that I told you really amounts to five good teams, right?:rolleyes:
LMAO...................... Typical clown. DeSoto needs to find a QB that can throw the long ball before they could take down a team like STA. STA would stack the box, and pick off the ducks by the DeSoto QB. Game would get ugly real fast.

Cedar Hill can't stop the run.


STA-Desoto STA by 30+

STA-Cedar Hill STA by 20+

[Hitman49]

And the BS train has pulled in.:rolleyes:

Smart one, I could care less that 10-2 CY bay lost to state champ Katy last year. They were the #32 team in the state. No big deal. Katy won a state title. Spin comes only from you; everyone aside from Hitman can see it (Hitman has some kind of man crush on you if you hadn't noticed).

Cy Bay and UA both went 10-2 last year, both weren't very fast (in terms of FL teams), and aside from Cy Bay's LB's their D was as slow and as weak, especially up front. That was all the comparison was, though I'm not surprised that you missed that. And who else would I compare them to? - Some random team from Arizona or Rhode Island that I've never seen play? - Yeah, that would make sense.:rolleyes:

I also said they were a slight step down. Meaning I thought Cy Bay was better.:rolleyes:

Your own fellow Texans think you're a joke, dude. Quit while you're ahead. I would hate for you to stop posting again, like you did when SLC lost to MNW in Texas.

Such a goof.:rolleyes:;)


Kiss my a$$ about the man crush thing!! You little jacks think you can come over here and tell Texans that we don't have teams that can play with STA. Give it up dude it will never work!! SLC vs MNW proved that. Non State Champion went toe to toe with one of the best teams to ever and I repeat ever come out of the state of florida...That team would handle any of the STA teams I have seen!!

Cy-Bay went 10-1 against Florida teams and would have killed that Ohio team. Let me add that Cy-Bay going 10-1 in florida only proves more to me that florida does not have big time quality depth among its teams. You do realize that Katy was beat 3 times in first 10 games of the year. They did not even win the district championship. They got beat by cross-town rival Katy Cinco Ranch for the district championship in game 10. Katy also took another loss 47-0 against The Woodlands HS. Katy went 5A div 2 in the playoffs and you know what, all 3 teams that beat them went 5A div 1 in the playoffs and none of them won state. You should take the time to see how our playoff teams are determined.

Dude, what my fellow Texans hate the most is jacks like you and steeler coming on our boards acting like a know it all!! My take is that the both of you don't know come here from Sic'em and even less about the game of football. We have already proved it with little steeler boy. However, you keep talking and I am sure we will expose you for the little football knowledge that you have also...lol

[steeler 01]

Yeah....the way top Cali team Orange Lutheran just got pimp slapped against a mid level rebuilding Pickerington team in Ohio says a lot about your judgement........lol.
They were on of your top ten that I told you really amounts to five good teams, right?:rolleyes:

I didn't know 2008 Olu played 2009 Pickerington Central. I don't think I've said Olu is a top 10 team in the state of Cali this year. I think their a good ball club, and think they'll go 9-3 or 8-4.


A rebuilding Pickerington Central team? Did you watch them play last year to make that comment(I watched their semi final game last year against Elder on STO)? Most on the Ohio boards after seeing them play think their the best team in region 3, and are better this year than last year. They were 13-1 last year.


http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192629

[steeler 01]

No you are wrong. #1 the qb for Desoto will go Div 1 if he does his work in the class room. STA is not so stupid to stack the box against a team like Desoto and the big time athletes they have out wide...

Your problem is that you do not know how to judge talent and quality high level football when two good teams are playing...Maybe it is because you are from cal.lol

The DeSoto QB can't throw the long ball. You're horrible if you can't see that.

[DownSouth]

Kiss my a$$ about the man crush thing!! You little jacks think you can come over here and tell Texans that we don't have teams that can play with STA. Give it up dude it will never work!! SLC vs MNW proved that. Non State Champion went toe to toe with one of the best teams to ever and I repeat ever come out of the state of florida...That team would handle any of the STA teams I have seen!!

Cy-Bay went 10-1 against Florida teams and would have killed that Ohio team. Let me add that Cy-Bay going 10-1 in florida only proves more to me that florida does not have big time quality depth among its teams. You do realize that Katy was beat 3 times in first 10 games of the year. They did not even win the district championship. They got beat by cross-town rival Katy Cinco Ranch for the district championship in game 10. Katy also took another loss 47-0 against The Woodlands HS. Katy went 5A div 2 in the playoffs and you know what, all 3 teams that beat them went 5A div 1 in the playoffs and none of them won state. You should take the time to see how our playoff teams are determined.

Dude, what my fellow Texans hate the most is jacks like you and steeler coming on our boards acting like a know it all!! My take is that the both of you don't know come here from Sic'em and even less about the game of football. We have already proved it with little steeler boy. However, you keep talking and I am sure we will expose you for the little football knowledge that you have also...lol



Okay, Tweedledum, how many times are we going to do this?

- Have you read any of my posts in this thread? I never said STA was unbeatable, in fact I said there were plenty of teams in Texas alone that would give them a great game. Whether they'd win or lose, I don't know - my guess would be win, but that's because they're a very good team, and I'm a homer for any FL school in an OOS matchup.

- I don't really care for STA all that much in FL, but put them against an OOS school and I'll back them 100%.

- I won't even bother with Cy Bay. Sure, they were 10-1 in FL, but they were also 10-2 the year before. Still didn't get them past round 2 (of 5), and never has.

- SLC did not go toe-to-toe with MNW. They scored 2 offensive TD's and didn't score a point in the second half. Plus the game was in your own state with 30,000 of your own fans. SLC would have gone much further in the playoffs had Dodge not gotten injured against Abilene, so I find it kind of funny that you and Frog get on my case for pointing out how I find Cy Bay to not be as good as you make them out to be, yet you take every opportunity to make SLC look like some garbage team that had no shot. Injuries are part of the game, but had Dodge been able to play beyond what he did against Abilene, you know they would have gone as far as anyone. Don't even try to BS on that one.

That MNW team was one of the great FL teams of the last few years.

- Ever? - Maybe, but so was 2005 Lakeland, 2006 MNW, 2008 Aquinas, and maybe even 2009 Aquinas and 2007 Booker T. We've had plenty of teams within just the last couple of years from FL that could have played that team to the end, so again, you have no idea what you're talking about in saying they would have handled STA.

- I don't really care how many Katy lost, they still have a state title. Your state champ beat our 2nd round team 31-6, they're supposed to do that. Congrats to them, they showed up and played a great game.

- Of course Texas has better depth, you have 700 more high school's playing football then we do and 10 million more in population. A bit to obvious for you, huh? Think it through.:rolleyes: If you think FL has depth problems becasue your STATE CHAMP beat a #32 ranked team, then I won't try to convince you otherwise.

And if you don't want FL people posting here, then stop creating threads about us.

[Mantis]

Not certain if any Texas teams could beat them but there are a few teams in Texas that could beat there victim as bad if not worse.

[maxtor]

Okay, Tweedledum, how many times are we going to do this?

- Have you read any of my posts in this thread? I never said STA was unbeatable, in fact I said there were plenty of teams in Texas alone that would give them a great game. Whether they'd win or lose, I don't know - my guess would be win, but that's because they're a very good team, and I'm a homer for any FL school in an OOS matchup.

- I don't really care for STA all that much in FL, but put them against an OOS school and I'll back them 100%.

- I won't even bother with Cy Bay. Sure, they were 10-1 in FL, but they were also 10-2 the year before. Still didn't get them past round 2 (of 5), and never has.

- SLC did not go toe-to-toe with MNW. They scored 2 offensive TD's and didn't score a point in the second half. Plus the game was in your own state with 30,000 of your own fans. SLC would have gone much further in the playoffs had Dodge not gotten injured against Abilene, so I find it kind of funny that you and Frog get on my case for pointing out how I find Cy Bay to not be as good as you make them out to be, yet you take every opportunity to make SLC look like some garbage team that had no shot. Injuries are part of the game, but had Dodge been able to play beyond what he did against Abilene, you know they would have gone as far as anyone. Don't even try to BS on that one.

That MNW team was one of the great FL teams of the last few years.

- Ever? - Maybe, but so was 2005 Lakeland, 2006 MNW, 2008 Aquinas, and maybe even 2009 Aquinas and 2007 Booker T. We've had plenty of teams within just the last couple of years from FL that could have played that team to the end, so again, you have no idea what you're talking about in saying they would have handled STA.

- I don't really care how many Katy lost, they still have a state title. Your state champ beat our 2nd round team 31-6, they're supposed to do that. Congrats to them, they showed up and played a great game.

- Of course Texas has better depth, you have 700 more high school's playing football then we do and 10 million more in population. A bit to obvious for you, huh? Think it through.:rolleyes: If you think FL has depth problems becasue your STATE CHAMP beat a #32 ranked team, then I won't try to convince you otherwise.

And if you don't want FL people posting here, then stop creating threads about us.


I almost choked when I read that. I was at the game. Do you remember the box score? Yards about even, passing about even, rushing about even.
SLC did not score in the second half. MNW scored a TD. Rylie Dodge completed 76% of his passes which was better than Jacory Harris.
Both teams scored 2 TDs each on what you would call "drives". All other TDs were the result of some turnover or single play bomb.
And as far as the crowd you really have no clue in that MNW had pile of fans on their side(not from florida).
MNW won by 8 points. Which is about what one would expect from two close teams with MNW getting 2 more turnovers.
MNW deserved to win. SLC deserved to lose. But to say that """SLC did not go toe-to-toe with MNW.""" is certainly a bit of a stretch.


And as far Katy and Cy Bay.

"I don't really care how many Katy lost, they still have a state title. Your state champ beat our 2nd round team 31-6, they're supposed to do that. "

Actually Katy won one of the split titles and had the easiest roads to state in history. When they played Cy Bay they werent hot but were in the playoffs.

Odd it is that when SLC plays MNW they are a state champ when they lose to MNW. Yet, when Cy Bay loses to Katy Cy Bay is nothing but a second round loser. In your referencing MNW, SLC Katy and Cy Bay you always paint the team in the most favorable light in regards to your agenda.

When MNW beats SLC you dont mention MNW as the champ that year.
When SLC loses to MNW you say that SLC is a state champ even though they are a second round loser.
When Katy wins over Cy Bay they simply beat a second round loser which is what MNW did to SLC!

You want it both ways.:rolleyes:

[Hitman49]

I didn't know 2008 Olu played 2009 Pickerington Central. I don't think I've said Olu is a top 10 team in the state of Cali this year. I think their a good ball club, and think they'll go 9-3 or 8-4.


A rebuilding Pickerington Central team? Did you watch them play last year to make that comment(I watched their semi final game last year against Elder on STO)? Most on the Ohio boards after seeing them play think their the best team in region 3, and are better this year than last year. They were 13-1 last year.


http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192629

You give Ohio way to much respect

[E-Vol-ution]

Read USA Today forums.....all the Ohio heads know that PC gets occaisonal good teams that bow by the second round....this year's team was picked to be mediocre at best due to team turnover.
PC was 13-1 against "cabbage" most of '08. Ask somebody or look up their stats, it's at your fingertips.
I didn't know 2008 Olu played 2009 Pickerington Central. I don't think I've said Olu is a top 10 team in the state of Cali this year. I think their a good ball club, and think they'll go 9-3 or 8-4.


A rebuilding Pickerington Central team? Did you watch them play last year to make that comment(I watched their semi final game last year against Elder on STO)? Most on the Ohio boards after seeing them play think their the best team in region 3, and are better this year than last year. They were 13-1 last year.


http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192629

[tmcran]

How much are the kids paid to play for St Thomas? Are they restricted to recuiting as public schools?

[pied]

How much are the kids paid to play for St Thomas? Are they restricted to recuiting as public schools?

Probably about as much as all of these summer transfers at the Texas public schools, that we're not supposed to really talk ablut I assume.

[Hitman49]

Probably about as much as all of these summer transfers at the Texas public schools, that we're not supposed to really talk ablut I assume.

What is your problem? Are you some type of Yankee or something???

[pied]

What is your problem? Are you some type of Yankee or something???

Born in Biloxi MS, home of Jefferson Davis bro.

Grea up in MS/VA/FL and TX from the 4th grade on(I did live from 6 months to almost 2 in KS though).

I just find it a bit hypocritical for public school fans to dog on private schools for recruiting, when transfers occur all the time, even at high profile schools. I do think it's important to note that I am not in favor of having private schools join the UIL for similar reasons.

[steeler 01]

Read USA Today forums.....all the Ohio heads know that PC gets occaisonal good teams that bow by the second round....this year's team was picked to be mediocre at best due to team turnover.
.

PC was 13-1 against "cabbage" most of '08. Ask somebody or look up their stats, it's at your fingertips.


LMAO at the USA today forums. Go ask real Ohio football followers

The bowed out in the semi finals last year.;)

So because their picked to be mediocre means they have to be mediocre? Last year Grant was ranked 26th in the preseason rankings, and they ended up number 2.

Those cabbage teams that you call them were actually pretty good. They gave Upper Arlington(Who lost every player in the skill position this year)their only 2 losses last year, and they also beat Hilliard Davidson. They lost to Elder in the semi's 24-10.



Why don't you go on here http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192629 , and ask if Pickerington Central is gonna have a mediocre year, and how they compare to last years team.;)

[Fleeman93]

I wouldn't expect any Texas school SHOULD be able to compete with a school that can and does recruit regardless of where they are in the country. I don't think it is level playing field when you talk about schools that have the ability to take kids from anywhere and schools that are limited to an attendance zone. Even with all of that said I do think there are teams in Texas that could play with Aquinas.

[E-Vol-ution]

The Ohio boys who I reference are Colerain, St.X, St. Iggy, Eder guys.
That's who keeps the rings.......name anybody else.
You are doing no more than referencing in comparison to a perennial first round or second round team from Texas weaker areas to beating a championship caliber team here.
Show me the rings or file your thoughts with the rest of your clutter box.

Grant had an opportunity the rest of your BCS non nominated teams don't get. Your own folks don't know who's cabbage and who's steak due to no real playoff taking place. Eat your heart out.......the Ring talks.
LMAO at the USA today forums. Go ask real Ohio football followers

The bowed out in the semi finals last year.;)

So because their picked to be mediocre means they have to be mediocre? Last year Grant was ranked 26th in the preseason rankings, and they ended up number 2.

Those cabbage teams that you call them were actually pretty good. They gave Upper Arlington(Who lost every player in the skill position this year)their only 2 losses last year, and they also beat Hilliard Davidson. They lost to Elder in the semi's 24-10.



Why don't you go on here http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192629 , and ask if Pickerington Central is gonna have a mediocre year, and how they compare to last years team.;)

[pied]

The Ohio boys who I reference are Colerain, St.X, St. Iggy, Eder guys.
That's who keeps the rings.......name anybody else.
You are doing no more than referencing in comparison to a perennial first round or second round team from Texas weaker areas to beating a championship caliber team here.
Show me the rings or file your thoughts with the rest of your clutter box.

Grant had an opportunity the rest of your BCS non nominated teams don't get. Your own folks don't know who's cabbage and who's steak due to no real playoff taking place. Eat your heart out.......the Ring talks.

Hililard Davidson?

[DragonFan0316]

LMAO at the USA today forums. Go ask real Ohio football followers

The bowed out in the semi finals last year.;)

So because their picked to be mediocre means they have to be mediocre? Last year Grant was ranked 26th in the preseason rankings, and they ended up number 2.

Those cabbage teams that you call them were actually pretty good. They gave Upper Arlington(Who lost every player in the skill position this year)their only 2 losses last year, and they also beat Hilliard Davidson. They lost to Elder in the semi's 24-10.



Why don't you go on here http://www.yappi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192629 , and ask if Pickerington Central is gonna have a mediocre year, and how they compare to last years team.;)

I lived in Pickerington from 93 - 97. Only one HS then and ladies basketball was what they were known for. I was shocked to see Pickerington Central in the top 25. Go Pickerinton Central.:)

[E-Vol-ution]

Yep...they got one in '06. I left out Moeller too.
That being said......the teams I named dominate Ohio HS football.
There is no other group in the mix.
Of course those guys are stoked that PC pimpslapped Orange Lutheran.
Now we'll see how they do against Grant.
Hililard Davidson?

[E-Vol-ution]

Exactly.....that region of Ohio is known for hoops. I lived in Pickerington from 93 - 97. Only one HS then and ladies basketball was what they were known for. I was shocked to see Pickerington Central in the top 25. Go Pickerinton Central.:)

[DownSouth]

I almost choked when I read that. I was at the game. Do you remember the box score? Yards about even, passing about even, rushing about even.
SLC did not score in the second half. MNW scored a TD. Rylie Dodge completed 76% of his passes which was better than Jacory Harris.
Both teams scored 2 TDs each on what you would call "drives". All other TDs were the result of some turnover or single play bomb.
And as far as the crowd you really have no clue in that MNW had pile of fans on their side(not from florida).
MNW won by 8 points. Which is about what one would expect from two close teams with MNW getting 2 more turnovers.
MNW deserved to win. SLC deserved to lose. But to say that """SLC did not go toe-to-toe with MNW.""" is certainly a bit of a stretch.


And as far Katy and Cy Bay.

"I don't really care how many Katy lost, they still have a state title. Your state champ beat our 2nd round team 31-6, they're supposed to do that. "

Actually Katy won one of the split titles and had the easiest roads to state in history. When they played Cy Bay they werent hot but were in the playoffs.

Odd it is that when SLC plays MNW they are a state champ when they lose to MNW. Yet, when Cy Bay loses to Katy Cy Bay is nothing but a second round loser. In your referencing MNW, SLC Katy and Cy Bay you always paint the team in the most favorable light in regards to your agenda.

When MNW beats SLC you dont mention MNW as the champ that year.
When SLC loses to MNW you say that SLC is a state champ even though they are a second round loser.
When Katy wins over Cy Bay they simply beat a second round loser which is what MNW did to SLC!

You want it both ways.:rolleyes:


To quote Dick Cheyney when asked about intellgience failures and them being on the wrong side of the will of the people,

SO?:cool:

- I'm not saying SLC was an easy win, not at all. I just don't think the game was ever in doubt for MNW anytime in the 2nd half.

You have your own agenda, as I freely admit I have my own.

You left out Dodge getting picked 2X, his backup once, and both getting sacked and hit more so than they had been to that point in their careers. Newton was only held to 39 yards, despite having over 1,280 on the entire season. (USA Today story has the stats I'm using)

And did I really need to clarify that MNW won state that year? - Really, nobody knew? I figured it was a given so I left it out.

But there is a difference betwen SLC and Cy Bay in regards to their 2nd round losses. SLC lost the center of their team, their leader and best player. Cy Bay was full strength, and lost in the final moments. SLC was destroying Abilene from the offensive end before Riley went out. Cy Bay was scrapping by against a good team with a bigtime O, that they were never able to pull away from.

And of course I know MNW traveled well (and had some new fans), they're one of the few teams that can do that from SoFla. To make it seem as though MNW had some home field advantage though is farfetched (I know you aren't doing that, but to say they weren't in a tough spot is a stretch).

- Nice job dumping on Katy's state title and in the process the quality of DEPTH of Texas football though.;)

If you aren't DEEP enough to have 2 quality state titles, then why have the 2nd one? - Seems odd that there would be such and easy 6 round schedule on the road to a Texas state title. Weird.:rolleyes: I'm sure that #7 state ranking that Smithson Valley had before they got curb stomped by Katy wasn't earned at all then. Yep, we can all agree, Katy won a state title and therefore sucks.:rolleyes:

[DownSouth]

What is your problem? Are you some type of Yankee or something???


If by Yankee you mean having, new word here, so get ready

Integrity

then I guess Yankee fits.:rolleyes:

[drgnbkr]

To quote Dick Cheyney when asked about intellgience failures and them being on the wrong side of the will of the people,

SO?:cool:

- I'm not saying SLC was an easy win, not at all. I just don't think the game was ever in doubt for MNW anytime in the 2nd half.

You have your own agenda, as I freely admit I have my own.

You left out Dodge getting picked 2X, his backup once, and both getting sacked and hit more so than they had been to that point in their careers. Newton was only held to 39 yards, despite having over 1,280 on the entire season. (USA Today story has the stats I'm using)

And did I really need to clarify that MNW won state that year? - Really, nobody knew? I figured it was a given so I left it out.

But there is a difference betwen SLC and Cy Bay in regards to their 2nd round losses. SLC lost the center of their team, their leader and best player. Cy Bay was full strength, and lost in the final moments. SLC was destroying Abilene from the offensive end before Riley went out. Cy Bay was scrapping by against a good team with a bigtime O, that they were never able to pull away from.

And of course I know MNW traveled well (and had some new fans), they're one of the few teams that can do that from SoFla. To make it seem as though MNW had some home field advantage though is farfetched (I know you aren't doing that, but to say they weren't in a tough spot is a stretch).

- Nice job dumping on Katy's state title and in the process the quality of DEPTH of Texas football though.;)

If you aren't DEEP enough to have 2 quality state titles, then why have the 2nd one? - Seems odd that there would be such and easy 6 round schedule on the road to a Texas state title. Weird.:rolleyes: I'm sure that #7 state ranking that Smithson Valley had before they got curb stomped by Katy wasn't earned at all then. Yep, we can all agree, Katy won a state title and therefore sucks.:rolleyes:

You know, the more you say something doesn't make it true...Carroll / MNW went down to the final whistle as everyone who watched it knows...MNW won and we all congratulated them. Newton out gained the 2 MNW running backs by himself on a very bad ankle. Your stats are off...It was a great game, and we've all dealt with a long time ago...

[steeler 01]

The Ohio boys who I reference are Colerain, St.X, St. Iggy, Eder guys.
.That's who keeps the rings.......name anybody else.
Pied did it for me in saying Hilliard Davidson, but I will add Upper Arlington(2000). Colerain has won one state title in their history, but they consistently remain a top team.

You are doing no more than referencing in comparison to a perennial first round or second round team from Texas weaker areas to beating a championship caliber team here.

So because they usually lose in the first round or second round that means what? They made it to the Semi's last year, and are one of the favorites to make it back this year, and if you ask most Ohio folk. They would put them as Region 3 favorites. You do know football goes in cycles right? Don't go off history to judge the 09 Pickerington Central team, and if you are gonna use history. Why not use recent history? Pickerington Central has gone 24-2 the last 2 years in Ohio.


Grant had an opportunity the rest of your BCS non nominated teams don't get. Your own folks don't know who's cabbage and who's steak due to no real playoff taking place. Eat your heart out.......the Ring talks.

You're knowledge of football outside of Texas stinks. Much like you're football knowledge.
^^

[dragonpants]

Doesn't look like it. They're good, well rounded and they're confident.

Texas teams have fallen in love with the spread too much. It hurts us.

I disagree with your comment on the spread to a certain extent. I think that there are too many teams running the spread that have no business doing so. If you do not have a good quarterback and at least 4 good receivers you have no business running the spread. If you have a team that runs it properly and well you will not consistently stop them. How do you successfully cover 4-5 good receivers for an entire game at the high school level. I am not saying these teams cannot be beat but it gives teams a lot more options and defenses fits.

[E-Vol-ution]

If they win.....they win. Don't count on it, I won't.
^^

[steeler 01]

T



But there is a difference betwen SLC and Cy Bay in regards to their 2nd round losses. SLC lost the center of their team, their leader and best player. Cy Bay was full strength, and lost in the final moments. SLC was destroying Abilene from the offensive end before Riley went out. Cy Bay was scrapping by against a good team with a bigtime O, that they were never able to pull away from.



SLC lost in the 3rd round. They beat Flower Mound, and Cedar Hill before losing to Abilene.

[drgnbkr]

SLC lost in the 3rd round. They beat Flower Mound, and Cedar Hill before losing to Abilene.

That is a fact...

[steeler 01]

If they win.....they win. Don't count on it, I won't.

I don't think their gonna win state, but I do think their a top 6 team in the state of Ohio.

[E-Vol-ution]

Definitely top ten the way they are playing.....maybe higher, but they threw the masses off. Nobody expected them to be better than last year. They have a track record of being up and down.....I don't think their gonna win state, but I do think their a top 6 team in the state of Ohio.

[CCParent]

I agree with all of that.

Its not real hard for me to say that Texas IS NOT Gods gift to high school football.
What???? Now those are some fightin' words!!!!:eek::D:D

[maxtor]

To quote Dick Cheyney when asked about intellgience failures and them being on the wrong side of the will of the people,

SO?:cool:

- I'm not saying SLC was an easy win, not at all. I just don't think the game was ever in doubt for MNW anytime in the 2nd half.

You have your own agenda, as I freely admit I have my own.

You left out Dodge getting picked 2X, his backup once, and both getting sacked and hit more so than they had been to that point in their careers. Newton was only held to 39 yards, despite having over 1,280 on the entire season. (USA Today story has the stats I'm using)

And did I really need to clarify that MNW won state that year? - Really, nobody knew? I figured it was a given so I left it out.

But there is a difference betwen SLC and Cy Bay in regards to their 2nd round losses. SLC lost the center of their team, their leader and best player. Cy Bay was full strength, and lost in the final moments. SLC was destroying Abilene from the offensive end before Riley went out. Cy Bay was scrapping by against a good team with a bigtime O, that they were never able to pull away from.

And of course I know MNW traveled well (and had some new fans), they're one of the few teams that can do that from SoFla. To make it seem as though MNW had some home field advantage though is farfetched (I know you aren't doing that, but to say they weren't in a tough spot is a stretch).

- Nice job dumping on Katy's state title and in the process the quality of DEPTH of Texas football though.;)

If you aren't DEEP enough to have 2 quality state titles, then why have the 2nd one? - Seems odd that there would be such and easy 6 round schedule on the road to a Texas state title. Weird.:rolleyes: I'm sure that #7 state ranking that Smithson Valley had before they got curb stomped by Katy wasn't earned at all then. Yep, we can all agree, Katy won a state title and therefore sucks.:rolleyes:

I see that it took you exactly one post to get personal with your Cheney/intelligence reference. Which foretold the lack of substance in the remainder of your post. You continue to bring up several valid statements which are generally a tangent to the subject at hand and doesn't respond to what was actually posted by me(straw man argument).

"" I'm not saying SLC was an easy win, not at all. I just don't think the game was ever in doubt for MNW anytime in the 2nd half.""

Yet you said in your previous post.

" SLC did not go toe-to-toe with MNW.".

Why the sudden change?

" You left out Dodge getting picked 2X, his backup once, and both getting sacked and hit more so than they had been to that point in their careers. Newton was only held to 39 yards, despite having over 1,280 on the entire season."

Yes, I left those facts out. I also left out Jacorys stats which were worse than Dodges. And I also left out that MNW averaged 2.7 yards a carry when they averaged no telling how much against FL. teams.

"- Nice job dumping on Katy's state title and in the process the quality of DEPTH of Texas football though.;)"

Im sorry, what was it I said about Katy's road to state that you disagreed with? I thought so.


"If you aren't DEEP enough to have 2 quality state titles, then why have the 2nd one? - Seems odd that there would be such and easy 6 round schedule on the road to a Texas state title. Weird. I'm sure that #7 state ranking that Smithson Valley had before they got curb stomped by Katy wasn't earned at all then. Yep, we can all agree, Katy won a state title and therefore sucks."

I would explain the playoff system in Texas and its quirks that favors Katys road to state but you wouldnt believe the truth anyway.

Is this as good as it gets?

[DownSouth]

You know, the more you say something doesn't make it true...Carroll / MNW went down to the final whistle as everyone who watched it knows...MNW won and we all congratulated them. Newton out gained the 2 MNW running backs by himself on a very bad ankle. Your stats are off...It was a great game, and we've all dealt with a long time ago...


Really?

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps/football/2007-09-15-northwestern-carroll_N.htm

While the Bulls and Dragons moved the ball through the air, they never got their running games going. Northwestern running back Daquan Hargrett rushed 11 times for 66 yards.

Carroll running back Tre Newton, the son of former Cowboy Nate Newton, gained 39 yards on 13 carries. He also caught three passes for 38 yards. His fumble inside Northwestern's 10-yard line near the end of the first half ended a potential scoring chance for the Dragons.

- I didn't include the other MNW back's stats because I don't care.

[drgnbkr]

Really?

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps/football/2007-09-15-northwestern-carroll_N.htm

While the Bulls and Dragons moved the ball through the air, they never got their running games going. Northwestern running back Daquan Hargrett rushed 11 times for 66 yards.

Carroll running back Tre Newton, the son of former Cowboy Nate Newton, gained 39 yards on 13 carries. He also caught three passes for 38 yards. His fumble inside Northwestern's 10-yard line near the end of the first half ended a potential scoring chance for the Dragons.

- I didn't include the other MNW back's stats because I don't care.

Really? Like I said..your stats are off...as the USA Today usually is about most things..There was no running game from MNW that day...and last time I pointed that out you said it was because they were a passing team...The game is over...MNW won...But they certainly didn't dominate anything...Quit trying to re-write history.

[RockinL]

No you are wrong. #1 the qb for Desoto will go Div 1 if he does his work in the class room. STA is not so stupid to stack the box against a team like Desoto and the big time athletes they have out wide...

Your problem is that you do not know how to judge talent and quality high level football when two good teams are playing...Maybe it is because you are from cal.lol

I saw the QB from Desoto and...come on dude...that kid has no arm. He's a good athlete, but I dont think he'll be running a spread offense at a Big time D1. He may go D1, but it wont be based on his throwing ability.

[DownSouth]

Maxtor

DownSouth (quoted post)

DownSouth (response)


I see that it took you exactly one post to get personal with your Cheney/intelligence reference.

It's a joke buddy, lighten up. How does that make anything personal? Wow, some of you are so sensitive.:D



Which foretold the lack of substance in the remainder of your post. You continue to bring up several valid statements which are generally a tangent to the subject at hand and doesn't respond to what was actually posted by me(straw man argument).

"" I'm not saying SLC was an easy win, not at all. I just don't think the game was ever in doubt for MNW anytime in the 2nd half.""

Yet you said in your previous post.

" SLC did not go toe-to-toe with MNW.".

Why the sudden change?


- What "sudden change?" So just because it wasn't an easy win means they got taken to the final whistle. Not to me. SLC was clearly beat, but it wasn't a rout or an easy win. Funny how you try to twist words yet accuse me of the same thing. Not surprised though, this seems to be the strategy of all of you Texans.

A team can be a tough opponent, yet clearly be overmatched. Simple as that.





" You left out Dodge getting picked 2X, his backup once, and both getting sacked and hit more so than they had been to that point in their careers. Newton was only held to 39 yards, despite having over 1,280 on the entire season."

Yes, I left those facts out. I also left out Jacorys stats which were worse than Dodges. And I also left out that MNW averaged 2.7 yards a carry when they averaged no telling how much against FL. teams.


- HUH?

Jacorry was 21 of 28 for 280 yards and 4 touchdowns and 0 INT's. If that's worse than 22 of 31 for 260, 2 TD's and 2 INT's then you have no credibility.

Their tailback was 11 for 66, Harris rushed 7 times for -13 yards in the game, that'll usually kill the average. Unless of course you leave that out on purpose.:rolleyes:

You make no sense.

Again, not surprised.






"- Nice job dumping on Katy's state title and in the process the quality of DEPTH of Texas football though.;)"

Im sorry, what was it I said about Katy's road to state that you disagreed with? I thought so.


- So that #7 State of Texas ranked Smithson Valley team didn't earn the ranking of 7th best team in the state? It was just given to them?

And Wylie, who made it to the title game last year and still comes in a preseason #11? - Just more BS too.





"If you aren't DEEP enough to have 2 quality state titles, then why have the 2nd one? - Seems odd that there would be such and easy 6 round schedule on the road to a Texas state title. Weird. I'm sure that #7 state ranking that Smithson Valley had before they got curb stomped by Katy wasn't earned at all then. Yep, we can all agree, Katy won a state title and therefore sucks."

I would explain the playoff system in Texas and its quirks that favors Katys road to state but you wouldnt believe the truth anyway.

Is this as good as it gets?



- No thanks, your brand of truth is too light on the facts for me.:rolleyes:




http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps/football/2007-09-15-northwestern-carroll_N.htm

[Hitman49]

Definitely top ten the way they are playing.....maybe higher, but they threw the masses off. Nobody expected them to be better than last year. They have a track record of being up and down.....

Who really cares? It was two very average teams playing! Both were much better then the team STA played

[DownSouth]

SLC lost in the 3rd round. They beat Flower Mound, and Cedar Hill before losing to Abilene.


Apologies to SLC.

I've been shortchanging them a round for a year+ now.

Pretty sure I got that whole 2nd round loss idea from a Frog post. That should have been my clue to fact check right there.:rolleyes:;)

[85Roughneck]

I would explain the playoff system in Texas and its quirks that favors Katys road to state but you wouldnt believe the truth anyway.

you don't know what truth is, silly clown, Katy beats the best from the rest of the state including the team that represents R1 and R2. there's nothing that favors Katy moreso than any other team. You got nothin' ... :rolleyes:

[SLC]

Born in Biloxi MS, home of Jefferson Davis bro.

Grea up in MS/VA/FL and TX from the 4th grade on(I did live from 6 months to almost 2 in KS though).

I just find it a bit hypocritical for public school fans to dog on private schools for recruiting, when transfers occur all the time, even at high profile schools. I do think it's important to note that I am not in favor of having private schools join the UIL for similar reasons.


Recruiting =/= Transfers....um, no.

The private's we have that participate in the UIL leagues must follow UIL rules the same way a public does.

[DownSouth]

Really? Like I said..your stats are off...as the USA Today usually is about most things..There was no running game from MNW that day...and last time I pointed that out you said it was because they were a passing team...The game is over...MNW won...But they certainly didn't dominate anything...Quit trying to re-write history.


This is about the 3rd time I've said this today.

They DID NOT dominate SLC. I agree WITH YOU.

Just because the game was not in doubt does not mean they got by easy. SLC scored 2 TD's on O and didn't score the entire 2nd half. Not an easy win by any means for MNW, but also not one they had to sweat out either.

That's all I mean.

And unless you prove that the USA Today stats are off then I can only assume you pulled that opinion out of thin air. Otherwise, 11 for 66 rushing from your #1 tailback (rushe for 880 on the year) looks a bit ABOVE his season average.

I will also agree that SLC played them tougher than any other team that year, except for Deerfield Beach. MNW beat them 19-14 in round 4 behind a closing minutes, field long drive. THAT was a game that came down, literally, to the final few plays.

[SLC]

Really? Like I said..your stats are off...as the USA Today usually is about most things..There was no running game from MNW that day...and last time I pointed that out you said it was because they were a passing team...The game is over...MNW won...But they certainly didn't dominate anything...Quit trying to re-write history.



I believe Tre rushed 13 times for 61 yards that day.

[twcpfan1]

Recruiting =/= Transfers....um, no.

The private's we have that participate in the UIL leagues must follow UIL rules the same way a public does.

Definition wise no. But the end result is the same. There are a handful of programs in the state that kids and their parents would change their living arrangements for so they can be part of it. Evidently, it's not that difficult to get the UIL's blessing to make it happen, without even sitting out a year. I really don't think we are in a position to call out OOS schools for what we want to refer to as 'recruiting' or building 'football factories'. Pretty sure they have the blessing of their respective governing bodies as well which as it turns out, is all the justification we need when it applies to our 'all star' programs. Can't use it as an excuse when our all stars lose to their all stars.

[SLC]

Definition wise no. But the end result is the same. There are a handful of programs in the state that kids and their parents would change their living arrangements for so they can be part of it. Evidently, it's not that difficult to get the UIL's blessing to make it happen, without even sitting out a year. I really don't think we are in a position to call out OOS schools for what we want to refer to as 'recruiting' or building 'football factories'. Pretty sure they have the blessing of their respective governing bodies as well which as it turns out, is all the justification we need when it applies to our 'all star' programs. Can't use it as an excuse when our all stars lose to their all stars.



Jesus you are on a roll of cluelessness here lately (that included this thread)....NO ONE HAS USED IT AS A REASON FOR LOSING TO A TEAM THAT CAN OPENLY RECRUIT!!!!!


As I said one does not equal the other. Our coaches cannot recruit, they can however accept a transfer....THERE IS A DIFFERENCE!:rolleyes:

[the_great_state_of_TExas]

This is about the 3rd time I've said this today.

They DID NOT dominate SLC. I agree WITH YOU.

Just because the game was not in doubt does not mean they got by easy. SLC scored 2 TD's on O and didn't score the entire 2nd half. Not an easy win by any means for MNW, but also not one they had to sweat out either.

That's all I mean.

And unless you prove that the USA Today stats are off then I can only assume you pulled that opinion out of thin air. Otherwise, 11 for 66 rushing from your #1 tailback (rushe for 880 on the year) looks a bit ABOVE his season average.

I will also agree that SLC played them tougher than any other team that year, except for Deerfield Beach. MNW beat them 19-14 in round 4 behind a closing minutes, field long drive. THAT was a game that came down, literally, to the final few plays.


When you compare "great vs great" you always have to consider the enrollment rules for the high school programs. The MNW players were essentially an all-star group of Dade County ISD players from the Miami area with an annual enrollment of 350K students, playing a team of kids from a district with an annual enrollment of 10K in a city with a population of 25K.

You have to wonder how an all-star team from SLC, Trinity, Colleyville, Grapevine, Bell and Richland would have looked against MWN in 2007.

[E-Vol-ution]

I thought quite a few of those kids were from around the "porkchops".When you compare "great vs great" you always have to consider the enrollment rules for the high school programs. The MNW players were essentially an all-star group of Dade County ISD players from the Miami area with an annual enrollment of 350K students, playing a team of kids from a district with an annual enrollment of 10K in a city with a population of 25K.

You have to wonder how an all-star team from SLC, Trinity, Colleyville, Grapevine, Bell and Richland would have looked against MWN in 2007.

[twcpfan1]

Jesus you are on a roll of cluelessness here lately (that included this thread)....NO ONE HAS USED IT AS A REASON FOR LOSING TO A TEAM THAT CAN OPENLY RECRUIT!!!!!


As I said one does not equal the other. Our coaches cannot recruit, they can however accept a transfer....THERE IS A DIFFERENCE!:rolleyes:

Holy crap. I acknowledged that. There is a difference. Yes. Agreed. But ultimately the end result is the same. They both end up with a collection of all stars. I did not accuse you personally of making excuses. Sorry if it came across that way. Look at Frog's post. He may not have used it as a direct excuse but he was definitely making a distinction when it came to the 'football factory' that is STA. Yes they do not recruit in Texas. But you know what? There are a handful of schools that do not have to. Not with the quality of move-ins they get. I cannot believe I had to explain that to you.

[pied]

Jesus you are on a roll of cluelessness here lately (that included this thread)....NO ONE HAS USED IT AS A REASON FOR LOSING TO A TEAM THAT CAN OPENLY RECRUIT!!!!!


As I said one does not equal the other. Our coaches cannot recruit, they can however accept a transfer....THERE IS A DIFFERENCE!:rolleyes:


wink wink. I know what you're saying. Texas HS coaches haev NEVER recruited anyone.

[SLC]

Holy crap. I acknowledged that. There is a difference. Yes. Agreed. But ultimately the end result is the same. They both end up with a collection of all stars. Look at Frog's post. He may not have used it as a direct excuse but he was definitely making a distinction when it came to the 'football factory' that is STA. Yes they do not recruit in Texas. But you know what? There are a handful of schools that do not have to. Not with the quality of move-ins they get. I cannot believe I had to explain that to you.


Have you seriously lost your mind? You are going to equate a move in here and there to openly recruiting. Do you even realize that Katy and Carroll would have around 20 D1 recruits EVERY YEAR if that were the case?


The end result is not the same when Texas coaches dont have a paid scholarship to a private prepatory school to wave in front of their face.


What team in Texas has a collection of all stars?...Please point them out oh all knowing one?


If they were to equate to each other, even remotely...then Carroll would need to get around 10 D1 kids to transfer to the school and they would need to be paid the equivelent to a 4 year scholarship to a prepatory school and they wouldn't need to have residence in Southlake.

A Private like STA can get whomever they want, from wherever they want..They can handpick 'em all day long...a move in every 2 or 3 years does not compare to that...I cant believe I had to explain that to you.

[SLC]

wink wink. I know what you're saying. Texas HS coaches haev NEVER recruited anyone.


Not saying it has never happened Pied, I am saying a Texas coach is held responsible when it gets found out...STA's wouldn't be.

[pied]

Just to point something out, I pretty much agree with you.

Also as of two years ago SLC had the most D1 players of any team in the state over a five yaer period. I think that likely arn out this past ercruiting season. This info was from Dave Campbell's(I belieev the '07 edition.

I think if the UIL opened up to private's, you would see St. A's on steroids. I believe that to be true and have posted it many times.

I also think there is more to many transfers than simply parents moving that have taken place over the years. I know first or second hand of a couple of instances in football/girl's basketball. To think it does not or can not happen in the UIL is simply sticking your head in the sand in my opinion.

[pied]

Not saying it has never happened Pied, I am saying a Texas coach is held responsible when it gets found out...STA's wouldn't be.

In Florida you cannot transfer for athletic reasons, or you have to sit out a year. No difference I think than in Texas. Hard to make that case stick though. Someone did so in Michal Irvin's case at St A I believe though.

[Canes0177]

No you are wrong. #1 the qb for Desoto will go Div 1 if he does his work in the class room. STA is not so stupid to stack the box against a team like Desoto and the big time athletes they have out wide...

Your problem is that you do not know how to judge talent and quality high level football when two good teams are playing...Maybe it is because you are from cal.lol

We don't really stack the box against anybody. Our scheme is so good that we can defend the pass and the run equally from our base defense.

But our secondary is outstanding. LaMarcus Joyner is our nickel corner. We have 5 guys that could play D1-A college football in the defensive backfield.

[b756561]

wink wink. I know what you're saying. Texas HS coaches have NEVER recruited anyone.

Have you never heard of G.A. Moore? :eek: Even when he gets caught with his hand in the cookie jar, they just spank his hand and he coaches yet another year. THIS year, he's at Aubrey. Where, oh where will he be next year?

[Canes0177]

Kiss my a$$ about the man crush thing!! You little jacks think you can come over here and tell Texans that we don't have teams that can play with STA. Give it up dude it will never work!! SLC vs MNW proved that. Non State Champion went toe to toe with one of the best teams to ever and I repeat ever come out of the state of florida...That team would handle any of the STA teams I have seen!!

Cy-Bay went 10-1 against Florida teams and would have killed that Ohio team. Let me add that Cy-Bay going 10-1 in florida only proves more to me that florida does not have big time quality depth among its teams. You do realize that Katy was beat 3 times in first 10 games of the year. They did not even win the district championship. They got beat by cross-town rival Katy Cinco Ranch for the district championship in game 10. Katy also took another loss 47-0 against The Woodlands HS. Katy went 5A div 2 in the playoffs and you know what, all 3 teams that beat them went 5A div 1 in the playoffs and none of them won state. You should take the time to see how our playoff teams are determined.

Dude, what my fellow Texans hate the most is jacks like you and steeler coming on our boards acting like a know it all!! My take is that the both of you don't know come here from Sic'em and even less about the game of football. We have already proved it with little steeler boy. However, you keep talking and I am sure we will expose you for the little football knowledge that you have also...lol

Cypress Bay went 10-1 in Broward County. And they didn't even play the 2 best teams in said county.

[Fleeman93]

We don't really stack the box against anybody. Our scheme is so good that we can defend the pass and the run equally from our base defense.

But our secondary is outstanding. LaMarcus Joyner is our nickel corner. We have 5 guys that could play D1-A college football in the defensive backfield.

I wonder how many teams in Texas have 5 D1 defensive backs playing for them right now. Canes do you think you could pull up a map of the school and plot roughly (don't want to know where their houses are) each of those 5 players live in relation to the school?


Can you do this Canes or would you rather not (would probably really prove a point I think).

[Canes0177]

When you compare "great vs great" you always have to consider the enrollment rules for the high school programs. The MNW players were essentially an all-star group of Dade County ISD players from the Miami area with an annual enrollment of 350K students, playing a team of kids from a district with an annual enrollment of 10K in a city with a population of 25K.

You have to wonder how an all-star team from SLC, Trinity, Colleyville, Grapevine, Bell and Richland would have looked against MWN in 2007.

How is it possible to have a Miami all-star team at Northwestern and have a 14-0 nationally ranked team 10 minutes down the road at Washington?

[Canes0177]

In Florida you cannot transfer for athletic reasons, or you have to sit out a year. No difference I think than in Texas. Hard to make that case stick though. Someone did so in Michal Irvin's case at St A I believe though.

No. The rule was different back then. The principle of the school he left had to sign a waiver allowing him to play athletics at STA. He refused so Mike had to sit out a year.

A ridiculous rule that is thankfully no longer denying kids a right to play high school athletics.

[Canes0177]

I wonder how many teams in Texas have 5 D1 defensive backs playing for them right now. Canes do you think you could pull up a map of the school and plot roughly (don't want to know where their houses are) each of those 5 players live in relation to the school?

I wish we had more kids closer to the school. We'd have all of Dillard's kids. Do you really think that would make us worse?

LMAO.

[pied]

No. The rule was different back then. The principle of the school he left had to sign a waiver allowing him to play athletics at STA. He refused so Mike had to sit out a year.

A ridiculous rule that is thankfully no longer denying kids a right to play high school athletics.


Yeah tragic that player's "Athletic Rights" might be compromised......

At least they have a good handle on it in Florida these days.

[Fleeman93]

I wish we had more kids closer to the school. We'd have all of Dillard's kids. Do you really think that would make us worse?

LMAO.

Can you do what I asked? I'm curious how far these kids that make up this all nation defensive backfield live from the school.

[TrinityTrojan80]

I wish we had more kids closer to the school. We'd have all of Dillard's kids. Do you really think that would make us worse?

LMAO.

Next year bring them to Texas Trinity will play them!!

[Canes0177]

Yeah tragic that player's "Athletic Rights" might be compromised......

At least they have a good handle on it in Florida these days.

Forget that. How about his right to choose a school and not be punished because he's an athlete?

[pied]

Forget that. How about his right to choose a school and not be punished because he's an athlete?

Any idea what the ratio of school transfers fo athletes/non athletes are?

If the rule stated you could not play at all after a transfer, how many athletes would transfer for academic/other reasons?

[twcpfan1]

Can somebody please help me out here. Because I would not know where to look and I'm apparently also losing my mind.

How many D1 athletes has both Aquinas and SLC produced in the last say 7 years?

[Canes0177]

Any idea what the ratio of school transfers fo athletes/non athletes are?

If the rule stated you could not play at all after a transfer, how many athletes would transfer for academic/other reasons?

100% using the one example we have (Irvin). He'd rather sit at STA than play at Piper.

[SLC]

No. The rule was different back then. The principle of the school he left had to sign a waiver allowing him to play athletics at STA. He refused so Mike had to sit out a year.

A ridiculous rule that is thankfully no longer denying kids a right to play high school athletics.


Exactly what I was saying to the other 2 knuckle heads on here.

There ya go Pied, and the Aussie rules football guy.;)

[twcpfan1]

Exactly what I was saying to the other 2 knuckle heads on here.

There ya go Pied, and the Aussie rules football guy.;)

Wrong code. I know it's messed up. Each state has a different code of football that they consider primary. The State of New South Wales where Sydney is and where I'm from is Rugby League country. Aussie Rules is king in Victoria where Melbourne is.

Cricket in the summer is the national pastime and is king in all states during the summer.

[SLC]

Can somebody please help me out here. Because I would not know where to look and I'm apparently also losing my mind.

How many D1 athletes has both Aquinas and SLC produced in the last say 7 years?

You are losing your mind and it needed to be pointed out...I did so and then Canes proved my point. They can recruit...We can not. A move in here and there does not equate to recruiting. You would like it to, so it would support your arguement, but simply put, it does not.

Also what would the amount of D1 athletes that came through Carroll have to do with the fact that in Texas a coach/team/program/school cannot recruit, yet in Florida they can?


One more thing before you try and say the amounts were equal, or close to it between Aquinas and Carroll. 90% of all the "D1" kids Carroll has had, have not turned out to be real D1 talent. They were elite at the high school level and were noticed because TD coached them up and in tv games and on videos they appeared to be these amazing, talented, super fast, studly athletes and when they went to college many of them weren't talented enough to see the field, many transfered because they couldn't get playing time at their original schools, and a few...in the case of McElroy, Daniel, Ulitowski and a few others they were real D1 talent and were able to be effective college athletes, but certainly the overwhelming majority of those Carroll players that seemed unworldly and studly in high school, found they were backups at the college level and several never even seen the field. I've tried saying for freakin years that there is a difference in Friday talent and Saturday talent and Sunday talent. One doesn't equate to other...call them busts or whatever you want, but really it's on the college scouts that see a Carroll reciever streak past a (insert high school team names here) DB 15 times in a season and say WOW that kid is amazing, when in fact he is not natural D1 talent, but rather he was coached very well, and then that kid goes to whatever the hell university and he is surrounded by real top notch athletes and suddenly finds himself fighting for a 8th spot at reciever. That my friend is not true D1 talent, that is a stud high school player that is an average college player.


The D1 kids on a MNW or Aquinas or DBP or DLS or LBP or Skyline or Desoto are real D1 kids that will be studs at the high school level and are the stars of tomorrow at the college level. Outside a a few I can count on my fingers, Carroll and Katy wont have those type of kids playing on Fridays.

[E-Vol-ution]

Heck....let me pick Arlington, TX top talent on one team and I guarantee we would smoke the competition........on a national basis too.Have you seriously lost your mind? You are going to equate a move in here and there to openly recruiting. Do you even realize that Katy and Carroll would have around 20 D1 recruits EVERY YEAR if that were the case?


The end result is not the same when Texas coaches dont have a paid scholarship to a private prepatory school to wave in front of their face.


What team in Texas has a collection of all stars?...Please point them out oh all knowing one?


If they were to equate to each other, even remotely...then Carroll would need to get around 10 D1 kids to transfer to the school and they would need to be paid the equivelent to a 4 year scholarship to a prepatory school and they wouldn't need to have residence in Southlake.

A Private like STA can get whomever they want, from wherever they want..They can handpick 'em all day long...a move in every 2 or 3 years does not compare to that...I cant believe I had to explain that to you.

[ThEgReAtOnE]

This is about the 3rd time I've said this today.

They DID NOT dominate SLC. I agree WITH YOU.

Just because the game was not in doubt does not mean they got by easy. SLC scored 2 TD's on O and didn't score the entire 2nd half. Not an easy win by any means for MNW, but also not one they had to sweat out either.

That's all I mean.

And unless you prove that the USA Today stats are off then I can only assume you pulled that opinion out of thin air. Otherwise, 11 for 66 rushing from your #1 tailback (rushe for 880 on the year) looks a bit ABOVE his season average.

I will also agree that SLC played them tougher than any other team that year, except for Deerfield Beach. MNW beat them 19-14 in round 4 behind a closing minutes, field long drive. THAT was a game that came down, literally, to the final few plays.

TGO setting things straight...

R u kidding me? I was there in person - on the sideline. MNW couldn't wait to get that game over with... and when they did, they celebrated like they won the Super Bowl, and Harris was quoted (then, and at the end of the season) saying SLC was the best team they faced all season. Hell, MNW was lucky Newton didn't hold on the ball down on their 10-yd line, right before the half.. or SLC would've gone up by 2 tds.

To say the game wasn't in doubt is the purest homerism on the planet. Even 2007 MNW players (many who are playing at Miami) would say you're crazy.

[businesstron]

Yes,

Allen
Longview
Katy
North Shore
Stoney Point


There'd probably be a few more as the season materializes...who knows. I don't know if they'd beat them but it'd atleast be a game.

Tell me something....why doesn't STA play any of the good Dade Country schools like Northwestern? Y'll travel all over the country to play sorry teams when you got better competition in your own backyard....

[SLC]

Heck....let me pick Arlington, TX top talent on one team and I guarantee we would smoke the competition........on a national basis too.


Thats exactly right. If we could recruit on a state wide, let alone a national level to our high school teams in Texas, I shudder to think what some of these teams would be like from this state at the high school level.

[twcpfan1]

SLC, no joke my friend, I'm merely trying to simplify the argument here. Ok we've established that 'occasional' move ins is not even in the same zip code as active recruiting, as far as the resulting talent. It's why I asked the question about what kind of D1 talent came out of both schools. I'm getting the sense that the numbers might be pretty close to being equal. But evidently, we also now have to grade each D1 talent individually in order to make the distinction.

Anyway, I'm trying to watch the tennis now. Poor Roddick is not going to start his match until close to midnight the way the Venus match is going.

[SLC]

SLC, no joke my friend, I'm merely trying to simplify the argument here. Ok we've established that 'occasional' move ins is not even in the same zip code as active recruiting, as far as the resulting talent. It's why I asked the question about what kind of D1 talent came out of both schools. I'm getting the sense that the numbers might be pretty close to being equal. But evidently, we also now have to grade each D1 talent individually in order to make the distinction.

Anyway, I'm trying to watch the tennis now. Poor Roddick is not going to start his match until close to midnight the way the Venus match is going.


I'm simply saying that for freakin years everyone has said that Carroll has had PLENTY of D1 talent and I am just setting the record staright as to what it was we actually have had. One simply needs to get the list of "D1" kids that played at Carroll, then with the list of names, go find what each of them did on Saturdays. I may even rub some of my fellow Carroll fans wrong by saying as much, but the proof is in the pudding and it certainly in no way deminishes what they accomplished on Fridays. In my eyes they all (even the ones that didn't go to college, or did but, not for athletics) are great and all represent a very special group, but I am not blinded by the difference in Friday talent vs Saturday talent and being able to make that distinction with the program I root for.

[DownSouth]

When you compare "great vs great" you always have to consider the enrollment rules for the high school programs. The MNW players were essentially an all-star group of Dade County ISD players from the Miami area with an annual enrollment of 350K students, playing a team of kids from a district with an annual enrollment of 10K in a city with a population of 25K.

You have to wonder how an all-star team from SLC, Trinity, Colleyville, Grapevine, Bell and Richland would have looked against MWN in 2007.


Fair point.

BUT,

MNW has Booker T. 10 minutes down the road, and Miami Central 7 minutes down the road.

You know them.

You want to tell me what would happen if they got a real All-Star team by having those players too?

You make a good point, but MNW is an exception since Central and Booker T. are each within 10 minutes of MNW.

[DownSouth]

I wonder how many teams in Texas have 5 D1 defensive backs playing for them right now. Canes do you think you could pull up a map of the school and plot roughly (don't want to know where their houses are) each of those 5 players live in relation to the school?


Can you do this Canes or would you rather not (would probably really prove a point I think).



From what I know, a couple live real close because they just transferred from Dillard.

Another 2-3 might not live close, but have been with the program for 3-4 years each.

Joyner is likely the only one that has no relation to the area or the school. - Kid pretty much recruited himself from what I've heard. He wanted to go to a bigtime school as he started getting more bigtime offers, and he targeted Aquinas. .

There were some rumblings in the weeks leading up to his transfer.

[DownSouth]

TGO setting things straight...

R u kidding me? I was there in person - on the sideline. MNW couldn't wait to get that game over with... and when they did, they celebrated like they won the Super Bowl, and Harris was quoted (then, and at the end of the season) saying SLC was the best team they faced all season. Hell, MNW was lucky Newton didn't hold on the ball down on their 10-yd line, right before the half.. or SLC would've gone up by 2 tds.

To say the game wasn't in doubt is the purest homerism on the planet. Even 2007 MNW players (many who are playing at Miami) would say you're crazy.


No, it isnt.

That was their 3rd game of the season, obviously it was their hardest to that point.

The only game that was ever really in doubt was their game against Deerfield Beach, in Round 4 of the playoffs. Read up on it

"Defeated Deerfield Beach, 19-14, in Class 6A semifinals at the Orange Bowl. Tyresse Jones' five-yard TD run with 18 seconds remaining capped a 12-play, 99-yard drive." (ESPN)

That is a game they were glad to get over with. Certainly more so than their win in Texas.

- No kidding they celebrated like it was the Superbowl. They'd just beaten the then ranked #1 team in the country, in that team's backyard.

What'd you expect?

[twcpfan1]

Question - If STA is allowed to recruit like you guys say they are, wouldn't the same thing apply to every other Florida school? So they would have to compete for those recruits and it makes sense that the attractive programs would probably get the best of them.

I guess you can equate that to the top programs in Texas attracting the best of the summer transfers. Yes or No?

[SLC93]

Thing is, not all D1 talent is created equal. Both teams can have 15 division 1 players, but it doesn't mean their equally talented. In the game between DLS-Poly MJD, and Derek Landri were the two most talented players on the field.

Absolutely true in most cases but in the case of that game sheer numbers tip the scale at some point. DLS had the two most talented players in that game, hands down, but they also had 200 pound lineman while Poly had DI guys on the bench. An alltime game and an all time example for kids about what execution, determination and effort can produce.

[SLC93]

Oh yeah, because if there was one thing Desoto showed last night, was that they had one coach that keeps a level head.:rolleyes:

He's def as good as George Smith and staff.;)

Then you just get even sillier.:rolleyes:

There's plenty of teams in Texas that could give a great game to STA. Skyline is probably one that would be a good matchup, along with the usual 4-7 teams that always go 3-4 rounds deep in the playoffs no matter the year.

I do doubt that CH and Desoto are on that list of teams though.


Desoto will not be on that list until they secure an upper level coach. That has always been their issue. They posses excellent athletes but have never been anything more than average in the coaching department. This is why they remain nothing more than a solid-good team.

Cedar Hill, on the other hand, can play with anyone, anywhere. Their performance during the first half was not indicative of what they do on a weekly basis. There coaching staff is one of the best around and their head coach is top flight. If you can follow them over the course of the season you'll see how they do nothing but improve every week, utilizing all that talent. They're going to be a monster and an extremely tough out by playoff time.

[SLC93]

Just to point something out, I pretty much agree with you.

Also as of two years ago SLC had the most D1 players of any team in the state over a five yaer period. I think that likely arn out this past ercruiting season. This info was from Dave Campbell's(I belieev the '07 edition.

I think if the UIL opened up to private's, you would see St. A's on steroids. I believe that to be true and have posted it many times.

I also think there is more to many transfers than simply parents moving that have taken place over the years. I know first or second hand of a couple of instances in football/girl's basketball. To think it does not or can not happen in the UIL is simply sticking your head in the sand in my opinion.

And while that may very well be true not all DI recruits are equal, as another poster pointed out. I'll never bemoan a void of talent at Carroll but the vast majority of those recruits you speak of went to places like Nevada, Navy, SMU, North Texas, Georgetown, Rice, Stanford, Vanderbilt and Baylor. Not exactly the BCS regulars. We've had a few big time players, no doubt, but lets not pretend we've been stocking the DI ranks with elite level prospects, either.

[pied]

You are losing your mind and it needed to be pointed out...I did so and then Canes proved my point. They can recruit...We can not. A move in here and there does not equate to recruiting. You would like it to, so it would support your arguement, but simply put, it does not.


Your reading comprehension appears suspect on this subject. Canes has not stated that Florida schools can recruit, what he has stated is that players are able to transfer and don't have to get the "losing school's" coaches signature.

In the FHSAA's Consent and Release from Liability Certificate, there is this language:

If you participate on a non-school team (i.e., AAU, American Legion, club setting, etc.) which is affiliated with or coached by a coach from a school other than the one you attend, or have attended, and then transfer to that school, it will be assumed you have been recruited to attend that school or transferred to that school for athletic reasons and you will be ineligible there for one year. If you transfer to a school that your coach has relocated to within the past year, it will be assumed you transferred to that school for athletic reasons and you will be ineligible there for one year. (FHSAA Bylaw 9.3).

http://www.fhsaa.org/forms/pdf/EL03_consent.pdf


If you decide to apply for the waiver on the Application for Waiver of the Transfer Rule, there is this verbiage:

The undersigned hereby certify that this transfer of schools was not for athletic reasons, in whole or in part; and that this transfer is not to escape any disciplinary action taken against the student at his/her previous school due to misconduct on his/her part. We further certify that no school administrator, athletic coach, employee or other person connected with a high school has engaged in recruiting of the student or has unduly influenced the student to transfer either by direct contact or indirectly through the student’s parent(s), legal guardian(s), common school employees, directors and/or coaches of non-school athletic programs, or other persons who are in a position to influence the student’s choice of school

http://www.fhsaa.org/forms/pdf/EL06_transfer.pdf

The rules save the strict residence ones are very similar to Texas'. To say that schools like St. A are allowed to recruit based on the rules set forth is simply false.

[pied]

And while that may very well be true not all DI recruits are equal, as another poster pointed out. I'll never bemoan a void of talent at Carroll but the vast majority of those recruits you speak of went to places like Nevada, Navy, SMU, North Texas, Georgetown, Rice, Stanford, Vanderbilt and Baylor. Not exactly the BCS regulars. We've had a few big time players, no doubt, but lets not pretend we've been stocking the DI ranks with elite level prospects, either.


And Alabama and Texas and Oregon......

one All Big XII player as well.......

[SLC93]

In Florida you cannot transfer for athletic reasons, or you have to sit out a year. No difference I think than in Texas. Hard to make that case stick though. Someone did so in Michal Irvin's case at St A I believe though.

Florida's governing body over amateur athletics is also widely considered to be a joke. The UIL, for better or worse, utilizes their power at every turn to it's fullest. Also, it was established that Dade county is an open enrollment area. Kids are near free to go where they want.

[SLC93]

Have you never heard of G.A. Moore? :eek: Even when he gets caught with his hand in the cookie jar, they just spank his hand and he coaches yet another year. THIS year, he's at Aubrey. Where, oh where will he be next year?

:eek::D

I think what most are trying to point out is that there is a difference in the recruiting. In Texas, due to visibility and supervision at most you'll sneak in a player a year, if that. Perhaps you're able to snag a star to keep the program moving. Very rarely does it absolutely translate into a title. We are not over run with allstar teams that annually produced 10-20 scholarship players a year and do not have the Magnet title to hide behind in our school systems. We do not have privates that have 10 to 20 to 30 state titles. That's where the logical mind starts sreaming injustice. Nothing is ever proven and we're all snickered at as conspiracy theorists but where there is that much smoke there is fire, period.

[SLC93]

How is it possible to have a Miami all-star team at Northwestern and have a 14-0 nationally ranked team 10 minutes down the road at Washington?

Ummmm .... how about both schools are located in the most fertile recruiting area in America and there are only 22 starting jobs on any given team?

[SLC93]

Can somebody please help me out here. Because I would not know where to look and I'm apparently also losing my mind.

How many D1 athletes has both Aquinas and SLC produced in the last say 7 years?

Fail. Even if it's close, you'll need to examine where the kids are going to school All DI is not the same and you know it. STA is sending kids to top ranked, BCS bowl attending schools.

[yallerjacket2]

You guys are starting to lose me here. Do Florida's private schools have to play by the same rules as the publics or not?

[pied]

:eek::D

I think what most are trying to point out is that there is a difference in the recruiting. In Texas, due to visibility and supervision at most you'll sneak in a player a year, if that. Perhaps you're able to snag a star to keep the program moving. Very rarely does it absolutely translate into a title. We are not over run with allstar teams that annually produced 10-20 scholarship players a year and do not have the Magnet title to hide behind in our school systems. We do not have privates that have 10 to 20 to 30 state titles. That's where the logical mind starts sreaming injustice. Nothing is ever proven and we're all snickered at as conspiracy theorists but where there is that much smoke there is fire, period.


It's not like every therad on here discussing transfers on this site are locked fairly quickly...

[pied]

You guys are starting to lose me here. Do Florida's private schools have to play by the same rules as the publics or not?

Yes.

[pied]

Florida's governing body over amateur athletics is also widely considered to be a joke. The UIL, for better or worse, utilizes their power at every turn to it's fullest. Also, it was established that Dade county is an open enrollment area. Kids are near free to go where they want.

Perhaps, but when you do not have the strict residence rules, intent is a bit harder to prove. Probably the main reason I am not in favor of having more private schools competing in the UIL.

[SLC93]

And Alabama and Texas and Oregon......

one All Big XII player as well.......

Absolutely, although I would argue we need to wait til the kid at Oregon produces before we put him in with the others. All I'm saying is that we've basically had Chase, Uli, and McElroy hit so far as big time colege players at big time programs. Chandler excelled at Iowa. McKay may turn out to be phenominal at BYU. There are other kids doing well at their schools but are they at power programs that are 4 deep at every position? No. The vast majority of our players are solid members of solid to lesser programs. We're not stocking the top 25 with difference makers.

[twcpfan1]

Fail. Even if it's close, you'll need to examine where the kids are going to school All DI is not the same and you know it. STA is sending kids to top ranked, BCS bowl attending schools.

Just curious who STA sent, how many and where. Nobody really jumps out that I've heard of. I have not researched it. Was hoping somebody could help out.

Because as Pied reminded us, UT, Mizzou, Oregon and Bama play in major conferences.

[drgnbkr]

Absolutely, although I would argue we need to wait til the kid at Oregon produces before we put him in with the others. All I'm saying is that we've basically had Chase, Uli, and McElroy hit so far as big time colege players at big time programs. Chandler excelled at Iowa. McKay may turn out to be phenominal at BYU. There are other kids doing well at their schools but are they at power programs that are 4 deep at every position? No. The vast majority of our players are solid members of solid to lesser programs. We're not stocking the top 25 with difference makers.

Don't forget the kickers! Kris Brown and Garret Hartley..Nebraska and OU. Houston Texans and NOLA Saints

[SLC93]

Perhaps, but when you do not have the strict residence rules, intent is a bit harder to prove. Probably the main reason I am not in favor of having more private schools competing in the UIL.

Exactly. I just think privates and open enrollment are Pandora's box. For the areas of the country that have these I do not begrudge them utilizing their system. I just think it corrupts the entire premise of amateur athletics and destroys the ability of neighborhoods to have their shining moment, especially in heavy urban areas where kids have several schools around them to choose from. What if Emmitt Smith had decided he didnt' want to attend the school his address said he should, Escambia? Nobody would have blamed him. They were nothing but awful. Emmitt played there and they have their piece of pride and history now and things like that are impactful on communities and populations, especially within the youth. All it takes is that one team to change the standard, the way of thinking. With kids going to privates and magnets, many schools never get to experience that. Many towns are denied the chance to let their kids shine for them. I hate that. I also think it helps to spread the cancer of the me generation. It's the equivalent of AAA basketball to high school hoops. from an attitude perspective. The game should be about more than the individual player and his desires. It is meant to teach more than that and can be a powerful life tool when it's not perverted. Scouts will find you anywhere. Let's teach our kids about loyalty, committment to community/friends, dedication and diligence. What about the sense of satisfaction, knowing you helped to build something that may not have existed before you? Anyone can go to a private or a perenial power and win. What if you stayed home and did it?

[pied]

Absolutely, although I would argue we need to wait til the kid at Oregon produces before we put him in with the others. All I'm saying is that we've basically had Chase, Uli, and McElroy hit so far as big time colege players at big time programs. Chandler excelled at Iowa. McKay may turn out to be phenominal at BYU. There are other kids doing well at their schools but are they at power programs that are 4 deep at every position? No. The vast majority of our players are solid members of solid to lesser programs. We're not stocking the top 25 with difference makers.

Most schools don't.

I think the number of schools that could claim the success of Daniel/Ulatoski/McElroy/Garrett/Brown/Newton/Chandler/etc. is pretty small.

[SLC93]

Just curious who STA sent, how many and where. Nobody really jumps out that I've heard of. I have not researched it. Was hoping somebody could help out.

Because as Pied reminded us, UT, Mizzou, Oregon and Bama play in major conferences.

Right but all I'm saying is that's like 4 kids were talking about and, to be fair, Baylor, Stanford and Vanderbilt are in major conferences but we all know they're not in the same league as their cohorts. Briles may eventually change that in Waco but you get what I'm saying.

[SLC93]

Don't forget the kickers! Kris Brown and Garret Hartley..Nebraska and OU. Houston Texans and NOLA Saints

I know we love them but I didn't think the general population recognized kickers as football players.:D

[twcpfan1]

I know we love them but I didn't think the general population recognized kickers as football players.:D

I beg to differ. The TWCP kicker last year, Zack Ammar made a textbook game saving open field one on one tackle on Conroe's D1 RB Lou Greenwood near the end of the game to ensure that we finish the season with 4 wins instead of 3 :D

[ThEgReAtOnE]

No, it isnt.

That was their 3rd game of the season, obviously it was their hardest to that point.

The only game that was ever really in doubt was their game against Deerfield Beach, in Round 4 of the playoffs. Read up on it

"Defeated Deerfield Beach, 19-14, in Class 6A semifinals at the Orange Bowl. Tyresse Jones' five-yard TD run with 18 seconds remaining capped a 12-play, 99-yard drive." (ESPN)

That is a game they were glad to get over with. Certainly more so than their win in Texas.

- No kidding they celebrated like it was the Superbowl. They'd just beaten the then ranked #1 team in the country, in that team's backyard.

What'd you expect?

You do realize this is like saying the Florida Gators weren't ever in doubt vs the Sooners... even when the game was 14-14 in the middle of the 4th Qtr. What you're saying is outright stupidity! To suggest the 2007 MNW team wasn't worried about losing - even when SLC went up 7-0 in the 1st qtr, even when they went up 14-7 in the 1st Qtr, even when it became 21-21 right before the half... and Tre Newton was about to make it 28-21, before he coughed up the ball on MNW's 5-yd line - wasn't in doubt, is crazy. And.. how many tds did MNW score in the entire 2nd half? 1! So, if Tre doesn't fumble and he scores, right before the half.. SLC is up 28-21. MNW then scores 1 td in the 2nd half and the game is tied... or MNW misses the PAT and SLC punts the ball out the back of the endzone to give MNW a Safety - like what actually happened. Also, don't forget that SLC drove within MNW's 20-yd line in the 4th Qtr, when they went for a FG (after a tipped sure td-pass in the endzone and penalty that moved them back)... and they didn't make it.

Simply put, neither team could rest until about 1:40 left to go in the game - that's when SLC's chances pretty much ended. However, it was a close match, between a "supposedly superior athletic team" who won the mythical national title vs a team that lost in the 3rd Round of a 6-Round playoff tournament, in Texas. Congrats!

Yeah... that (29-21) game was never in doubt! :rolleyes:

[SLC]

Your reading comprehension appears suspect on this subject. Canes has not stated that Florida schools can recruit, what he has stated is that players are able to transfer and don't have to get the "losing school's" coaches signature.

In the FHSAA's Consent and Release from Liability Certificate, there is this language:



http://www.fhsaa.org/forms/pdf/EL03_consent.pdf


If you decide to apply for the waiver on the Application for Waiver of the Transfer Rule, there is this verbiage:



http://www.fhsaa.org/forms/pdf/EL06_transfer.pdf

The rules save the strict residence ones are very similar to Texas'. To say that schools like St. A are allowed to recruit based on the rules set forth is simply false.



Pied you can go and google what you want to say and try and back your point, but the bottom line is Florida schools have no restrictions on coaches getting whomever they want to play for them. The big name schools in Florida continue to do that on a yearly basis. Canes lives there and he basisicaly attests to that when he says that a high school player is not denied the right to play athletics wherever.

This is not new, though you act like it is...Most people have known this for years. Welcome to the last 20 years.

[SLC]

Just curious who STA sent, how many and where. Nobody really jumps out that I've heard of. I have not researched it. Was hoping somebody could help out.

Because as Pied reminded us, UT, Mizzou, Oregon and Bama play in major conferences.



1 to UT, 1 to Mizzou, and 1 to Bama. Blake has not even seen the field, I think we may hold off considering that just because he went there, that it constitutes a major contributing player. Lest we forget we had another player go to OU and somehow he never sniffed the field either.

[SLC]

Most schools don't.

I think the number of schools that could claim the success of Daniel/Ulatoski/McElroy/Garrett/Brown/Newton/Chandler/etc. is pretty small.


Basically your pointing to 2 kickers. 1 reciever and 2 QB's. I will say if there are positions that get work at our school its the QB's and kickers. And you need to be good at both. We'll see where it goes with Chandler, but the 2 kickers should be set for work for awile.


Newton, we'll see. If UT gets some of the player that they have their eyes on, then Tre may not see the field either and hasn't to this point, so I'll reserve an opinion on him till later.

[SLC]

I beg to differ. The TWCP kicker last year, Zack Ammar made a textbook game saving open field one on one tackle on Conroe's D1 RB Lou Greenwood near the end of the game to ensure that we finish the season with 4 wins instead of 3 :D


Nice. And in some cases they are good athletes as well, take ours for instance this season. If you get hit on a kick off return by Cade Foster, you will know it, and there isn't going to be any teasing by your teammates saying you got tackled by the kicker.:D

[pied]

Why do two time all Bg XII players not get considered?


http://www.nationalchamps.net/2009/sub/pics/small/texas_adam_ulatoski.jpg

[twcpfan1]

Basically your pointing to 2 kickers. 1 reciever and 2 QB's. I will say if there are positions that get work at our school its the QB's and kickers. And you need to be good at both. We'll see where it goes with Chandler, but the 2 kickers should be set for work for awile.


Newton, we'll see. If UT gets some of the player that they have their eyes on, then Tre may not see the field either and hasn't to this point, so I'll reserve an opinion on him till later.

All I've heard about so far are SLC players. Which D1 players did STA have in the same time frame? I honestly do not know.

[pied]

Basically your pointing to 2 kickers. 1 reciever and 2 QB's. I will say if there are positions that get work at our school its the QB's and kickers. And you need to be good at both. We'll see where it goes with Chandler, but the 2 kickers should be set for work for awile.


Newton, we'll see. If UT gets some of the player that they have their eyes on, then Tre may not see the field either and hasn't to this point, so I'll reserve an opinion on him till later.

and the OL, and a RB, and a TE........

slim pickings huh?????

Tre must be a failure having redshirted on the #3 team as a freshman......

How about Riley, does he not count becuase he spurned Texas to play with his dad? It wasn't like Texas did not want him.



poor little SLC, they only have three players in the NFL right now, and their grads playing college ball aren't all two time big XII players, I mean they can barely field a team at Dragon field these days.

[pied]

Pied you can go and google what you want to say and try and back your point, but the bottom line is Florida schools have no restrictions on coaches getting whomever they want to play for them. The big name schools in Florida continue to do that on a yearly basis. Canes lives there and he basisicaly attests to that when he says that a high school player is not denied the right to play athletics wherever.

This is not new, though you act like it is...Most people have known this for years. Welcome to the last 20 years.



umm no. Being able to play athletics does not equal recruiting. I won't put words in his mouth, I'll jsut repost what he has said..

If that's what you choose to do.

How can that be against the rules? Can the UIL pry into your mind and determine what factors a family weighed when they decided where to send their kid?

If a family wants to send their kid to a private school they have that right regardless of reason.

It's illegal for schools to recruit for athletic purposes. A family can send their kid to any school they want for any reason.

This is the old U.S.A. by the way.


I answered in the same fashion before about STA and that wasn't satisfactory to you.

STA has never been sanctioned by the FHSAA for recruiting.

That is perhaps the most unintentionally funny point that you've made.

You talk of recruiting all day long and yet you are concerned with poor kids not being able to attend these private schools.

All private schools have financial aid systems that allow poorer students to attend.

You just don't get it.

Public schools operate like they're supposed to. Yet the private schools are told they have to forfeit that right in order to play public schools. They have to operate like public schools.

So if a Catholic family lives on the other side of town they won't be able to attend that schools because it's unfair for public school football teams.

LOL.

Comical.

I can't say for sure if Martians have landed on Earth. I can tell you from my experience that nobody has been recruited to play at STA.

I'm sure you can't say for sure the SLC didn't recruit during the last 15 years. Of course that's not of concern to you.

[SLC]

All I've heard about so far are SLC players. Which D1 players did STA have in the same time frame? I honestly do not know.


You'll have to go look it up bro....I am not the google master...Pied may look it up for you.;)

[SLC]

and the OL, and a RB, and a TE........

slim pickings huh?????

Tre must be a failure having redshirted on the #3 team as a freshman......

How about Riley, does he not count becuase he spurned Texas to play with his dad? It wasn't like Texas did not want him.



poor little SLC, they only have three players in the NFL right now, and their grads playing college ball aren't all two time big XII players, I mean they can barely field a team at Dragon field these days.


Riley is another I will wait and see on, I have little doubt that he will perform well at UNT, which was the best move for him, becuase I also have little doubt, no I am about positive Riley wouldn't have seen the field at UT. The same situation I described earlier...To many series D1 players at UT.


Again, with what UT is likely to be getting at the RB spot, I have my doubts that Tre will ever be a contributor at Texas...We will see, as of right now he hasn't, so I will what and see. Next.



I was refering to numerous number in reference to the players I spoke of earlier. Several kickers, several QB's..etc. 1 offensive lineman in what? 50 years of playing football for Carroll...WOW. Next.

[SLC]

umm no. Being able to play athletics does not equal recruiting. I won't put words in his mouth, I'll jsut repost what he has said..


So, water isn't wet? Nice.

[pied]

Riley is another I will wait and see on, I have little doubt that he will perform well at UNT, which was the best move for him, becuase I also have little doubt, no I am about positive Riley wouldn't have seen the field at UT. The same situation I described earlier...To many series D1 players at UT.-How many freshmen did Texas play last year? His receiver background might have given him a leg up on Gideon.


Again, with what UT is likely to be getting at the RB spot, I have my doubts that Tre will ever be a contributor at Texas...We will see, as of right now he hasn't, so I will what and see. Next.-by commitee, appear to have struck out on the big target this year in Seastrunk. Last year we took one big RB whom amny expect to lay on the other side of the ball. Ter's name came up quite a bit in the off season. Let's see what happens this year.



I was refering to numerous number in reference to the players I spoke of earlier. Several kickers, several QB's..etc. 1 offensive lineman in what? 50 years of playing football for Carroll...WOW. Next.


SLC wins theur first 5A title in '02. they have a couple of kickers in the pros, as well as a QB, with another starting at a top ten team and a two time returning OL. poooorrr little Dragons.....

You're right man, a dearth of talent if 've ever seen one....

[pied]

So, water isn't wet? Nice.

Yes and you are not allowed to recruit in FL or have transfers for athletic reason there or in Texas.

[maxtor]

Maxtor

DownSouth (quoted post)

DownSouth (response)


I see that it took you exactly one post to get personal with your Cheney/intelligence reference.

It's a joke buddy, lighten up. How does that make anything personal? Wow, some of you are so sensitive.:D



Which foretold the lack of substance in the remainder of your post. You continue to bring up several valid statements which are generally a tangent to the subject at hand and doesn't respond to what was actually posted by me(straw man argument).

"" I'm not saying SLC was an easy win, not at all. I just don't think the game was ever in doubt for MNW anytime in the 2nd half.""

Yet you said in your previous post.

" SLC did not go toe-to-toe with MNW.".

Why the sudden change?


- What "sudden change?" So just because it wasn't an easy win means they got taken to the final whistle. Not to me. SLC was clearly beat, but it wasn't a rout or an easy win. Funny how you try to twist words yet accuse me of the same thing. Not surprised though, this seems to be the strategy of all of you Texans.

A team can be a tough opponent, yet clearly be overmatched. Simple as that.





" You left out Dodge getting picked 2X, his backup once, and both getting sacked and hit more so than they had been to that point in their careers. Newton was only held to 39 yards, despite having over 1,280 on the entire season."

Yes, I left those facts out. I also left out Jacorys stats which were worse than Dodges. And I also left out that MNW averaged 2.7 yards a carry when they averaged no telling how much against FL. teams.


- HUH?

Jacorry was 21 of 28 for 280 yards and 4 touchdowns and 0 INT's. If that's worse than 22 of 31 for 260, 2 TD's and 2 INT's then you have no credibility.

Their tailback was 11 for 66, Harris rushed 7 times for -13 yards in the game, that'll usually kill the average. Unless of course you leave that out on purpose.:rolleyes:

You make no sense.

Again, not surprised.






"- Nice job dumping on Katy's state title and in the process the quality of DEPTH of Texas football though.;)"

Im sorry, what was it I said about Katy's road to state that you disagreed with? I thought so.


- So that #7 State of Texas ranked Smithson Valley team didn't earn the ranking of 7th best team in the state? It was just given to them?

And Wylie, who made it to the title game last year and still comes in a preseason #11? - Just more BS too.





"If you aren't DEEP enough to have 2 quality state titles, then why have the 2nd one? - Seems odd that there would be such and easy 6 round schedule on the road to a Texas state title. Weird. I'm sure that #7 state ranking that Smithson Valley had before they got curb stomped by Katy wasn't earned at all then. Yep, we can all agree, Katy won a state title and therefore sucks."

I would explain the playoff system in Texas and its quirks that favors Katys road to state but you wouldnt believe the truth anyway.

Is this as good as it gets?



- No thanks, your brand of truth is too light on the facts for me.:rolleyes:




http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps/football/2007-09-15-northwestern-carroll_N.htm

"""Their tailback was 11 for 66, Harris rushed 7 times for -13 yards in the game, that'll usually kill the average. Unless of course you leave that out on purpose.

You make no sense.

Again, not surprised."""

You left out the other tail backs for MNW. Why was that? MNW averaged 2.7 yards as a team. SpinMaster.


"""So that #7 State of Texas ranked Smithson Valley team didn't earn the ranking of 7th best team in the state? It was just given to them?"""

The subject matter for this response was Katys ROAD to state. Yet you base your argument on this single example instead of the entirety of the playoff schedule.


"""And Wylie, who made it to the title game last year and still comes in a preseason #11? - Just more BS too."""

The subject was the ROAD to state. Wylie MET them in state.


The overall stats were similar among the two teams. Passing about the same. Rushing about the same. Score almost the same. The sole difference in the game came down to a few more turnovers by SLC and a Bomb by MNW. Change a few plays and SLC gets to be the authors of how they won the game. You simply credit MNWs victory over SLC using stronger language and opinion than what reality supports.

[SLC]

SLC wins theur first 5A title in '02. they have a couple of kickers in the pros, as well as a QB, with another starting at a top ten team and a two time returning OL. poooorrr little Dragons.....

You're right man, a dearth of talent if 've ever seen one....


Exactly 2 kickers.....Wait for it...wait for it...WOW.

One undrafted QB that hasn't nailed down a spot as a number 3 yet, I've already spoken to his career as a college player...he is one of few Carroll players to perform that way in college.


And Greg is THE one player that most of us around the Carroll program, knew had real D1 talent written all over him. We will see what he does now with the ball in his court, I have little doubt that he will perform well, but we dont know that yet.


And again, Uli is a beast and I'm not shocked he has played well for Texas, but that is exactly one O lineman in 50 years...It's not like were churning out D1 lineman over there in Southlake.


Carroll is basically putting out QB's, no other position is/has made strides at the next level, except for kickers, which by all stretches of the imagination, are not the reason Carroll has became a state power. Next.


So you got 5 players in 50 years at Carroll?.... Holy smokes, Please...Walk on home boy.

[SLC]

Yes and you are not allowed to recruit in FL or have transfers for athletic reason there or in Texas.


Wake up calls, some folks need 'em.

[dragonpants]

and the OL, and a RB, and a TE........

slim pickings huh?????

Tre must be a failure having redshirted on the #3 team as a freshman......

How about Riley, does he not count becuase he spurned Texas to play with his dad? It wasn't like Texas did not want him.



poor little SLC, they only have three players in the NFL right now, and their grads playing college ball aren't all two time big XII players, I mean they can barely field a team at Dragon field these days.

Why are you such and F..king tool?
Carroll has had kids go to DI schools some of them larger schools. The MNW team that we played had what 8 or 9 go to Miami? That is one years worth of players. We have not had 8 or 9 go to big time programs in 4-5 years. How many last year. This year we have JR going to Tech, granted he could go many other schools and KR going to Miami. Mitchell Osborne to Tulsa and David Piland going to Houston will not be playing for a National Championship there are a few others that will get scholarships to college and that is the most important thing, an education but we are not filling the SEC and Big 12 starting line ups.
Why is it so hard to admit that we have built a program in which the whole community has been involved in and it has been successful with less athletic kids than other schools.
I do not understand why people have to berate SL for just about anything. We have a nice community, nice people, excellent schools and we have undying support for our kids regardless of sports, academics, band, you name it.
That is why this program has been successful oh yeah we have had some outstanding coaches. I spent some time with Coach Ledbetter last week about a business opportunity and he is truly inspiring. Coach Dodge is fantastic and a great role model and turned out a great kid, who also happened to be an excellent football player. Our kids work hard and strive to be the best and do what it takes to do so. Some have complained about Coach Wasson who 98% or more of schools in the State would be ecstatic to have but had to follow a coach who last one game in 5 years and that loss was by one point for the State Championship, the other 4 he won State and 2 or 3 mythical national championships.
We expect more because our kids do, that is what they want.
You are right we are friggin horrible and deserve all the negativity we receive.
When we talk about our record over the past decade or even since the Ledbetter days we are called pompous and bragging. What are we supposed to do say,"We have 7 State Championships but we suck, we did not deserve them."
Getting back to recruiting or move ins, any idea how hard it is to do that at Carroll. We have 0 and I mean 0 multiple family dwellings. No apartments or town house communities. You want your kid to come here, you have to buy a house and probably sell your previous home, that is a pretty substantial commitment to move for just athletic purposes don't you think?

[pied]

Exactly 2 kickers.....Wait for it...wait for it...WOW.

One undrafted QB that hasn't nailed down a spot as a number 3 yet, I've already spoken to his career as a college player...he is one of few Carroll players to perform that way in college.


And Greg is THE one player that most of us around the Carroll program, knew had real D1 talent written all over him. We will see what he does now with the ball in his court, I have little doubt that he will perform well, but we dont know that yet.


And again, Uli is a beast and I'm not shocked he has played well for Texas, but that is exactly one O lineman in 50 years...It's not like were churning out D1 lineman over there in Southlake.


Carroll is basically putting out QB's, no other position is/has made strides at the next level, except for kickers, which by all stretches of the imagination, are not the reason Carroll has became a state power. Next.


So you got 5 players in 50 years at Carroll?.... Holy smokes, Please...Walk on home boy.

There were Daniel doubters? weird.

Weird that all of the D1 coaches who have signed SL players over the last 5-10 years jsut haven't gone into the stands and asked the fanbase.

Why is it that so many people having a hard time admitting that they have a talented team?(not unique to Carroll)? Just because you are talented does nto mean that you don't work hard or have a good coaching staff.

[Hitman49]

Right but all I'm saying is that's like 4 kids were talking about and, to be fair, Baylor, Stanford and Vanderbilt are in major conferences but we all know they're not in the same league as their cohorts. Briles may eventually change that in Waco but you get what I'm saying.

Briles is changing that now...

[pied]

Why are you such and F..king tool?
Carroll has had kids go to DI schools some of them larger schools. The MNW team that we played had what 8 or 9 go to Miami? That is one years worth of players. We have not had 8 or 9 go to big time programs in 4-5 years. How many last year. This year we have JR going to Tech, granted he could go many other schools and KR going to Miami. Mitchell Osborne to Tulsa and David Piland going to Houston will not be playing for a National Championship there are a few others that will get scholarships to college and that is the most important thing, an education but we are not filling the SEC and Big 12 starting line ups.
Why is it so hard to admit that we have built a program in which the whole community has been involved in and it has been successful with less athletic kids than other schools.
I do not understand why people have to berate SL for just about anything. We have a nice community, nice people, excellent schools and we have undying support for our kids regardless of sports, academics, band, you name it.
That is why this program has been successful oh yeah we have had some outstanding coaches. I spent some time with Coach Ledbetter last week about a business opportunity and he is truly inspiring. Coach Dodge is fantastic and a great role model and turned out a great kid, who also happened to be an excellent football player. Our kids work hard and strive to be the best and do what it takes to do so. Some have complained about Coach Wasson who 98% or more of schools in the State would be ecstatic to have but had to follow a coach who last one game in 5 years and that loss was by one point for the State Championship, the other 4 he won State and 2 or 3 mythical national championships.
We expect more because our kids do, that is what they want.
You are right we are friggin horrible and deserve all the negativity we receive.
When we talk about our record over the past decade or even since the Ledbetter days we are called pompous and bragging. What are we supposed to do say,"We have 7 State Championships but we suck, we did not deserve them."
Getting back to recruiting or move ins, any idea how hard it is to do that at Carroll. We have 0 and I mean 0 multiple family dwellings. No apartments or town house communities. You want your kid to come here, you have to buy a house and probably sell your previous home, that is a pretty substantial commitment to move for just athletic purposes don't you think?

Think you need take a bit if a step back dragonbrithches.

I am stating that SLC has had quite a bit of talent come through. I don't think you'll find a negative word in anything I have ever posted about Dodge/Ledbetter/the Dragon program. abuot the closest you'll find is :

1. Me giving ghe edge to a veteran MNW QB/Receiving corps over the yong SLC DB's
2. Maintaing that have had as much talent over the past 5 or so years as anyone.

[maxtor]

Fair point.

BUT,

MNW has Booker T. 10 minutes down the road, and Miami Central 7 minutes down the road.

You know them.

You want to tell me what would happen if they got a real All-Star team by having those players too?

You make a good point, but MNW is an exception since Central and Booker T. are each within 10 minutes of MNW.
Central and Booker T. being each within 10 minutes of MNW at best implies that the beneficiaries of this viscous transfer/attendance rules are spread out amongst 3 teams instead of maybe 20.
SLC gets to chose players only within their own school zone. Which covers the huge area of a 4 1/2 mile square.
Nonetheless this isnt sour grapes. I was just making a correction for your readers. Southlake is proud and capable to play with whom they have.

[Hitman49]

You do realize this is like saying the Florida Gators weren't ever in doubt vs the Sooners... even when the game was 14-14 in the middle of the 4th Qtr. What you're saying is outright stupidity! To suggest the 2007 MNW team wasn't worried about losing - even when SLC went up 7-0 in the 1st qtr, even when they went up 14-7 in the 1st Qtr, even when it became 21-21 right before the half... and Tre Newton was about to make it 28-21, before he coughed up the ball on MNW's 5-yd line - wasn't in doubt, is crazy. And.. how many tds did MNW score in the entire 2nd half? 1! So, if Tre doesn't fumble and he scores, right before the half.. SLC is up 28-21. MNW then scores 1 td in the 2nd half and the game is tied... or MNW misses the PAT and SLC punts the ball out the back of the endzone to give MNW a Safety - like what actually happened. Also, don't forget that SLC drove within MNW's 20-yd line in the 4th Qtr, when they went for a FG (after a tipped sure td-pass in the endzone and penalty that moved them back)... and they didn't make it.

Simply put, neither team could rest until about 1:40 left to go in the game - that's when SLC's chances pretty much ended. However, it was a close match, between a "supposedly superior athletic team" who won the mythical national title vs a team that lost in the 3rd Round of a 6-Round playoff tournament, in Texas. Congrats!

Yeah... that (29-21) game was never in doubt! :rolleyes:



Yes, you are correct! SLC actually had more scoring chances in the 2nd half even if they did not score. It was just not meant to be that night

[Hitman49]

you guys are starting to lose me here. Do florida's private schools have to play by the same rules as the publics or not?

no

[SLC]

There were Daniel doubters? weird.

Weird that all of the D1 coaches who have signed SL players over the last 5-10 years jsut haven't gone into the stands and asked the fanbase.

Why is it that so many people having a hard time admitting that they have a talented team?(not unique to Carroll)? Just because you are talented does nto mean that you don't work hard or have a good coaching staff.


Take your twisting sh!t back to the yard Pied...It wont work on this board...you'll get owned real quick over here.

Case in point, I never said that about Chase at all...I said everyone knew Greg had D1 talent written all over him..ie...Skills, Athleticism, Height, Weight, Arm strength...etc..etc. Chase had some of those, but not nearly comparable to Greg. Chase has heart and that will get you alot of places on alot of teams, but not Alafreakinbama, it will get you to Mizzou though.

Nobody doubts any of our players, they are all big time performers at Carroll...on Fridays...Saturdays are entirely different and few have made a name for themselves on Saturdays..does not mean we doubt them, but Friday is different that Saturday entirely.


you bring up the D1 coaches and that is real interesting, because honestly, I have about nailed which ones I thought would be contributors at the college level, only a few missed, and they went the other way, not up.


I have always admitted Carroll is talented. They are loaded with Friday talent, as alot of teams are in Texas, they are not loaded with Saturday talent though. Surely you know the difference.

[maxtor]

No, it isnt.

That was their(MNW) 3rd game of the season, obviously it was their hardest to that point.



Actually it was their(MNW) 4th game of the season if you count the scrimmage that they had. It was SLCs second game of the season. One wonders if playing 3 games instead of 1 games might be an advantage? Not bad for SLC having only 3 return on a defense that had played only one game prior to MNW. Then again I'm sure that you'll claim that extra games of experience actually dont matter.

[SLC]

Think you need take a bit if a step back dragonbrithches.

I am stating that SLC has had quite a bit of talent come through. I don't think you'll find a negative word in anything I have ever posted about Dodge/Ledbetter/the Dragon program. abuot the closest you'll find is :

1. Me giving ghe edge to a veteran MNW QB/Receiving corps over the yong SLC DB's
2. Maintaing that have had as much talent over the past 5 or so years as anyone.


Yep..Friday talent is what has beaten the snot out of alot of teams in the state. Is your team included here? Upset I think.

I'm sure you've stopped short of insinuating they recruit and take steroids though... Next.

[pied]

I saw "most" and read "only". Not sure how that happened, my bad.

SLC does not have the super high end talent you'll see every once in while at a very handful of schools across the country. I think with McElroy/Daniel/Ulatoski plus several others you could make a very convincing argument that they are in the top percentage of HS talent in the country. Some schools sign a bunch of players but it tends to be a short period of time and many flame out. That's the breaks and it applies to every team's players.

[maxtor]

Absolutely, although I would argue we need to wait til the kid at Oregon produces before we put him in with the others. All I'm saying is that we've basically had Chase, Uli, and McElroy hit so far as big time colege players at big time programs. Chandler excelled at Iowa. McKay may turn out to be phenominal at BYU. There are other kids doing well at their schools but are they at power programs that are 4 deep at every position? No. The vast majority of our players are solid members of solid to lesser programs. We're not stocking the top 25 with difference makers.

Dont forget that SLC has 2 starting kickers in the NFL and a chance at a third with Cade Foster along with a tight end. Not bad a for a little rich suburban community.

[pied]

Yep..Friday talent is what has beaten the snot out of alot of teams in the state. Is your team included here? Upset I think.

I'm sure you've stopped short of insinuating they recruit and take steroids though... Next.

Nope, although my team would not have stood a shot since SLC went 5A. I have never accused them of recruiting taking steroids. On the National boards you will find no stronger defender of SLC than myself, with the exception of the nut bag SLCDad.

[maxtor]

You do realize this is like saying the Florida Gators weren't ever in doubt vs the Sooners... even when the game was 14-14 in the middle of the 4th Qtr. What you're saying is outright stupidity! To suggest the 2007 MNW team wasn't worried about losing - even when SLC went up 7-0 in the 1st qtr, even when they went up 14-7 in the 1st Qtr, even when it became 21-21 right before the half... and Tre Newton was about to make it 28-21, before he coughed up the ball on MNW's 5-yd line - wasn't in doubt, is crazy. And.. how many tds did MNW score in the entire 2nd half? 1! So, if Tre doesn't fumble and he scores, right before the half.. SLC is up 28-21. MNW then scores 1 td in the 2nd half and the game is tied... or MNW misses the PAT and SLC punts the ball out the back of the endzone to give MNW a Safety - like what actually happened. Also, don't forget that SLC drove within MNW's 20-yd line in the 4th Qtr, when they went for a FG (after a tipped sure td-pass in the endzone and penalty that moved them back)... and they didn't make it.

Simply put, neither team could rest until about 1:40 left to go in the game - that's when SLC's chances pretty much ended. However, it was a close match, between a "supposedly superior athletic team" who won the mythical national title vs a team that lost in the 3rd Round of a 6-Round playoff tournament, in Texas. Congrats!

Yeah... that (29-21) game was never in doubt! :rolleyes:



I just hate it when people like you use reason, logic and facts to support your arguments. You are way out of line in not using personal attacks, witty one liners and exceptions to the rule.

[SLC]

Dont forget that SLC has 2 starting kickers in the NFL and a chance at a third with Cade Foster along with a tight end. Not bad a for a little rich suburban community.


Not bad at all. And to this point the kickers have shown to be the cream. It further proves the point that the insane performances Carroll has had over the last 8 years by the offenses and over all success of the team as a whole has maerialized into 2 kickers moving up at each of the next 2 levels. lets slow down on Cade though, he is just now in his senior season in high school...quite a ways to go before we'll know how he translates to the next level and beyond. Scott thus far is keeping his head just above water in the NFL, which is a credit to his hard work, but after being relased by Dego after just 2 seasons since being drafted, if the Cowboys situ doesn't work out, he may be at the end of his line in the NFL.

Daniel is also keeping his head above water and it may work out for him...I still say he would make an excellent coach at the high school level and then possibly an offensive coordinator in college. he is as smart a kid I have ever met and knows the spread like the back of his hand.

[SLC]

I just hate it when people like you use reason, logic and facts to support your arguments. You are way out of line in not using personal attacks, witty one liners and exceptions to the rule.


Yep and sadly people are still having to fight that battle 2 years after the fact...But many, even many in Texas and a great many on this site and one Texas guy in this thread just last season said Carroll got beat down. I gave up trying to argue with the people awile back about it. They obviously didn't watch the same game I was at, so I just let em roll. We lost, MNW won and it was a close, hard fought game and thats it.

[simple]

I have an interesting tidbits about Katy last state champ --- you guys were saying that Katy had the easiest road to play in the state championship --- you guys are very wrong.....think about who did Wylie (the team Katy beat for the state championship) play in the regular and beat - you got it Allen - it was their only loss and they (Allen) won the championship game....It is the same Allen Team that beat Trinity in the play-off....Katy also had to play Smithson Valley (state periennial power) and whupped them good....

Ok Ok guys - back to the board...

Yes - we do have teams here in texas that can defeat St. Thomas Aquinas team. Katy is one of them - their defense is out of the world - they played a very tough North Shore team (another team capable of beating St. Thomas Aquinas). It was a hell of a defense of battle. Both Katy and North Shore has a defense that St. Thomas Aquinas will never get thru.....
SLC Dragons are very capable of beating St Thomas Aquinas as well ---- They run the spread and very successful in doing so....We have Allen, Stoney Point, etc......

Why don't your (St. Thomas Aquinas ) team schedule a game with the Texas Power House. They always schedule a game against Ohio State's team --- you know what

I even believe our top 10 team in the state are very capable of beating the St. Thomas Aquinas Team - I also beleive that any of Texas top 5 4A team can beat them as well. Call me wishful thinker - but I believe than can do it and with ease....... now that part is wishful thinking ;)

[SLC]

I have an interesting tidbits about Katy last state champ --- you guys were saying that Katy had the easiest road to play in the state championship --- you guys are very wrong.....think about who did Wylie (the team Katy beat for the state championship) play in the regular and beat - you got it Allen - it was their only loss and they (Allen) won the championship game....It is the same Allen Team that beat Trinity in the play-off....Katy also had to play Smithson Valley (state periennial power) and whupped them good....

Ok Ok guys - back to the board...

Yes - we do have teams here in texas that can defeat St. Thomas Aquinas team. Katy is one of them - their defense is out of the world - they played a very tough North Shore team (another team capable of beating St. Thomas Aquinas). It was a hell of a defense of battle. Both Katy and North Shore has a defense that St. Thomas Aquinas will never get thru.....
SLC Dragons are very capable of beating St Thomas Aquinas as well ---- They run the spread and very successful in doing so....We have Allen, Stoney Point, etc......

Why don't your (St. Thomas Aquinas ) team schedule a game with the Texas Power House. They always schedule a game against Ohio State's team --- you know what

I even believe our top 10 team in the state are very capable of beating the St. Thomas Aquinas Team - I also beleive that any of Texas top 5 4A team can beat them as well. Call me wishful thinker - but I believe than can do it and with ease....... now that part is wishful thinking ;)


Wylie lost 2 regular season games in '08 to Allen and Plano and Wylie finished 3rd in their district.

[steeler 01]

I saw "most" and read "only". Not sure how that happened, my bad.

SLC does not have the super high end talent you'll see every once in while at a very handful of schools across the country. I think with McElroy/Daniel/Ulatoski plus several others you could make a very convincing argument that they are in the top percentage of HS talent in the country. Some schools sign a bunch of players but it tends to be a short period of time and many flame out. That's the breaks and it applies to every team's players.
This is funny. SLC fans are trying to down play their talent. Chase Daniel, Scott Chandler, Greg McElroy, Adam Ulatoski, McKay Jacobson, and Tre Newton(You don't get into a school like Texas by being an average recruit).
All of those kids are top H.S. talent, and can play on Saturdays. This SLC has very little Saturday talent is a myth.Their not the most talented team every year, but their not out manned heavily against no one almost(MNW different story and not a normal team). SLC is more talented than 99 percent of the schools in the U.S.

[SLC]

This is funny. SLC fans are trying to down play their talent. Chase Daniel, Scott Chandler, Greg McElroy, Adam Ulatoski, McKay Jacobson, and Tre Newton(You don't get into a school like Texas by being an average recruit).
All of those kids are top H.S. talent, and can play on Saturdays. This SLC has very little Saturday talent is a myth.Their not the most talented team every year, but their not out manned heavily against no one almost(MNW different story and not a normal team). SLC is more talented than 99 percent of the schools in the U.S.



You're proven to be the usual joke you are again.

Chase- As stated many times in this thread, yes.

Scott Chandler- Obviuosly, he's still floating in the NFL. Has been mentioned.

Greg McElroy- The one obvious choice that came through Carroll and had D1 written all over him. We haven't seen him yet, but I have little doubt he will be a stud. He has been mentioned.

Uli- Obviously, a beast at Texas, yes. he has already been mentioned.

McKay- 2006 was great as a fresh at BYU, has not contributed since. He is expected to play this season, so lets see what he does.

Tre- Yep, he was taken by Texas, but I still have doubts he will see the field there considering who Texas is targeting at the RB spot. We will see, but there are doubts. And to equate the spot with "you dont get into Texas by being an average recruit"...Texas also picked Riley and I also am about certain he would have never seen the field either. Once you get to UT, you realize the ammount of pure D1 talent thats there.

The best move for Tre (and TGO actually said it on the UNT thread in the college area and he's right) would have been to do what Riley did, and thats to go to UNT, where he could get some playing time.


So you still got what? 5-6 in like 50 years...there were others but the point is they aren't turning out the studs of tomorrow in college. Carroll is very loaded with Friday talent, Saturday talent, no.


And to suggest they are more talented than 99% of the high schools in the country goes on the list of some of the dumbest things you have ever said.


In fact you could say maybe they work harder, train harder, play harder and perform at an elite level more than most teams and have as much Friday talent as any in the country, but not on Saturdays they dont.

[maxtor]

I have an interesting tidbits about Katy last state champ --- you guys were saying that Katy had the easiest road to play in the state championship --- you guys are very wrong.....think about who did Wylie (the team Katy beat for the state championship) play in the regular and beat - you got it Allen - it was their only loss and they (Allen) won the championship game....It is the same Allen Team that beat Trinity in the play-off....Katy also had to play Smithson Valley (state periennial power) and whupped them good....

Ok Ok guys - back to the board...

Yes - we do have teams here in texas that can defeat St. Thomas Aquinas team. Katy is one of them - their defense is out of the world - they played a very tough North Shore team (another team capable of beating St. Thomas Aquinas). It was a hell of a defense of battle. Both Katy and North Shore has a defense that St. Thomas Aquinas will never get thru.....
SLC Dragons are very capable of beating St Thomas Aquinas as well ---- They run the spread and very successful in doing so....We have Allen, Stoney Point, etc......

Why don't your (St. Thomas Aquinas ) team schedule a game with the Texas Power House. They always schedule a game against Ohio State's team --- you know what

I even believe our top 10 team in the state are very capable of beating the St. Thomas Aquinas Team - I also beleive that any of Texas top 5 4A team can beat them as well. Call me wishful thinker - but I believe than can do it and with ease....... now that part is wishful thinking ;)


Wylie did not play Allen in the playoffs. Below is the playoff schedules of Wylie and Katy on their way to state. There is a MARKED difference in how much easier Katy's road was. Keeping in mind that Wylies really wasnt all that tough. It just goes to show that in MOST years Katy only has to compete with SV for the annual shot at D2 state in their corner of the world. Katy is a bonafied elite team. Then again one wonders what their trophy case would look like if they had to go through Allen, Lufkin, SLC, Trinity, Permian and on and on every year. Essentially, Katy has to play a tough game in the semis to make it to state many times. Yes, there is an exception or two(2007).

KATY 2008

(122) Houston Stratford (5-3)

(91) Humble (7-2)

(76) Dickinson (9-2)

(59) La Porte (8-4)

(14) Smithson Valley (13-1)




WYLIE 2008

(124) Irving (5-5)

(15) Lewisville Hebron (8-3) (OT)

(23) Arlington Bowie (11-1)

(17) Cedar Hill (12-1)

(11) Copperas Cove (13-1)


According to state rankings:

While Katy was playing the #122 team in the state during playoff week one, Wylie was playing #124.

While Katy was playing the #91 team in the state during playoff week two, Wylie was playing #15.

While Katy was playing the #76 team in the state during playoff week three, Wylie was playing #23.

While Katy was playing the #59 team in the state during playoff week four, Wylie was playing #17.

While Katy was playing the #14 team in the state during playoff week five, Wylie was playing #11.


Katy is the master of getting hot when it matters in the playoffs. Then again it sure is nice to only have to be hot for a couple of weeks instead of a month and half.

[maxtor]

Not bad at all. And to this point the kickers have shown to be the cream. It further proves the point that the insane performances Carroll has had over the last 8 years by the offenses and over all success of the team as a whole has maerialized into 2 kickers moving up at each of the next 2 levels. lets slow down on Cade though, he is just now in his senior season in high school...quite a ways to go before we'll know how he translates to the next level and beyond. Scott thus far is keeping his head just above water in the NFL, which is a credit to his hard work, but after being relased by Dego after just 2 seasons since being drafted, if the Cowboys situ doesn't work out, he may be at the end of his line in the NFL.

Daniel is also keeping his head above water and it may work out for him...I still say he would make an excellent coach at the high school level and then possibly an offensive coordinator in college. he is as smart a kid I have ever met and knows the spread like the back of his hand.

My bad. I am guilty of not following the context of the posts concerning D1 talent/recruiting. I was just pointing out as an aside how proud I was of SLC and how unusual it was that they have had some great players while not being a "city" team or a private school or a recruitment center.

[SLC]

My bad. I am guilty of not following the context of the posts concerning D1 talent/recruiting. I was just pointing out as an aside how proud I was of SLC and how unusual it was that they have had some great players while not being a "city" team or a private school or a recruitment center.



I know, no need to appologize at all. I was just pointing out some things is all. To most it would seem an oddity that Carroll, for all it's great achievments on the football field, has basically gotten 2 kickers out of it.:D


But hey, they got to kick an awful lot of xtra points at Carroll.:D

[SLC]

Wylie did not play Allen in the playoffs. Below is the playoff schedules of Wylie and Katy on their way to state. There is a MARKED difference in how much easier Katy's road was. Keeping in mind that Wylies really wasnt all that tough. It just goes to show that in MOST years Katy only has to compete with SV for the annual shot at D2 state in their corner of the world. Katy is a bonafied elite team. Then again one wonders what their trophy case would look like if they had to go through Allen, Lufkin, SLC, Trinity, Permian and on and on every year. Essentially, Katy has to play a tough game in the semis to make it to state many times. Yes, there is an exception or two(2007).

KATY 2008

(122) Houston Stratford (5-3)

(91) Humble (7-2)

(76) Dickinson (9-2)

(59) La Porte (8-4)

(14) Smithson Valley (13-1)




WYLIE 2008

(124) Irving (5-5)

(15) Lewisville Hebron (8-3) (OT)

(23) Arlington Bowie (11-1)

(17) Cedar Hill (12-1)

(11) Copperas Cove (13-1)


According to state rankings:

While Katy was playing the #122 team in the state during playoff week one, Wylie was playing #124.

While Katy was playing the #91 team in the state during playoff week two, Wylie was playing #15.

While Katy was playing the #76 team in the state during playoff week three, Wylie was playing #23.

While Katy was playing the #59 team in the state during playoff week four, Wylie was playing #17.

While Katy was playing the #14 team in the state during playoff week five, Wylie was playing #11.


Katy is the master of getting hot when it matters in the playoffs. Then again it sure is nice to only have to be hot for a couple of weeks instead of a month and half.



Exactly right. Perfectly said.

[simple]

Exactly right. Perfectly said.

And yet - Katy defeated Wylie --- Perfectly well said...:notworthy

[steeler 01]

You're proven to be the usual joke you are again.
I've proven to be a joke, yet you don't know **** about what you're talking about. You're more of a politician, than a football guy.

Chase- As stated many times in this thread, yes.

Scott Chandler- Obviuosly, he's still floating in the NFL. Has been mentioned.

Greg McElroy- The one obvious choice that came through Carroll and had D1 written all over him. We haven't seen him yet, but I have little doubt he will be a stud. He has been mentioned.

Uli- Obviously, a beast at Texas, yes. he has already been mentioned.

McKay- 2006 was great as a fresh at BYU, has not contributed since. He is expected to play this season, so lets see what he does.
He went on a mission. Do you expect him to contribute from Sapporo, Japan while not even on the BYU squad? He's going to play a ton for BYU this year.

Tre- Yep, he was taken by Texas, but I still have doubts he will see the field there considering who Texas is targeting at the RB spot. We will see, but there are doubts. And to equate the spot with "you dont get into Texas by being an average recruit"...Texas also picked Riley and I also am about certain he would have never seen the field either. Once you get to UT, you realize the ammount of pure D1 talent thats there.
I don't care if he never sees the field. That doesn't take away from the fact that hes a big time recruit and player. Marc Tyler(USC) hasn't seen the field at almost, and he was ranked the number 2 HB coming out of H.S.

The best move for Tre (and TGO actually said it on the UNT thread in the college area and he's right) would have been to do what Riley did, and thats to go to UNT, where he could get some playing time.


So you still got what? 5-6 in like 50 years...there were others but the point is they aren't turning out the studs of tomorrow in college. Carroll is very loaded with Friday talent, Saturday talent, no.

I was talking about their 5A and dominating run.

And to suggest they are more talented than 99% of the high schools in the country goes on the list of some of the dumbest things you have ever said.
You really believe their not more talented than 99 percent of the teams in the U.S.? You must be only talking about college talent, i'm talking about overall talent.


In fact you could say maybe they work harder, train harder, play harder and perform at an elite level more than most teams and have as much Friday talent as any in the country, but not on Saturdays they dont.
Some schools have 1 or 2 kids every year pass through their programs that are elite, but the rest of the team sucks. Does that make them more talented than SLC? Since those 1 or 2 kids perform on Saturdays. IMO no.
^^

[simple]

Exactly right. Perfectly said.

I beleive you need to reread the state ranking again - something not right here --- how can Hebron with 8 wins and 3 loss be ranked ahead of Cedar Hill ---- or matter of factly Stratford and Humble has better record than Hebron......something not right here but anyway at the end Katy beat Wylie soundly.....:cool:

[maxtor]

Okay, Tweedledum, how many times are we going to do this?

- Have you read any of my posts in this thread? I never said STA was unbeatable, in fact I said there were plenty of teams in Texas alone that would give them a great game. Whether they'd win or lose, I don't know - my guess would be win, but that's because they're a very good team, and I'm a homer for any FL school in an OOS matchup.

- I don't really care for STA all that much in FL, but put them against an OOS school and I'll back them 100%.

- I won't even bother with Cy Bay. Sure, they were 10-1 in FL, but they were also 10-2 the year before. Still didn't get them past round 2 (of 5), and never has.

- SLC did not go toe-to-toe with MNW. They scored 2 offensive TD's and didn't score a point in the second half. Plus the game was in your own state with 30,000 of your own fans. SLC would have gone much further in the playoffs had Dodge not gotten injured against Abilene, so I find it kind of funny that you and Frog get on my case for pointing out how I find Cy Bay to not be as good as you make them out to be, yet you take every opportunity to make SLC look like some garbage team that had no shot. Injuries are part of the game, but had Dodge been able to play beyond what he did against Abilene, you know they would have gone as far as anyone. Don't even try to BS on that one.

That MNW team was one of the great FL teams of the last few years.

- Ever? - Maybe, but so was 2005 Lakeland, 2006 MNW, 2008 Aquinas, and maybe even 2009 Aquinas and 2007 Booker T. We've had plenty of teams within just the last couple of years from FL that could have played that team to the end, so again, you have no idea what you're talking about in saying they would have handled STA.

- I don't really care how many Katy lost, they still have a state title. Your state champ beat our 2nd round team 31-6, they're supposed to do that. Congrats to them, they showed up and played a great game.

- Of course Texas has better depth, you have 700 more high school's playing football then we do and 10 million more in population. A bit to obvious for you, huh? Think it through.:rolleyes: If you think FL has depth problems becasue your STATE CHAMP beat a #32 ranked team, then I won't try to convince you otherwise.

And if you don't want FL people posting here, then stop creating threads about us.


You want to equate SLC as only being a complete team when they have Dodge at QB. The lack of Dodge made an enormous deference in their ability to drive that offense. Yet when Dodge went out of the MNW game it made no difference to you. SLC racked up points and yardage when Dodge was in and didnt when he was out. Both in MNW game and in the Abiline game.

Main Entry: hypocrite
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: person who pretends, is deceitful

[maxtor]

And yet - Katy defeated Wylie --- Perfectly well said...:notworthy

The USA has won the last 5 little league world series. The reason why is that the USA gets a free pass to the finals while the rest of the world vies for a single spot in the final. Its always the USA bracket versus the international bracket. For someone to say that its not an advantage for the USA to have an automatic placement in the finals is simply delusional or is being disengenous.
In the same way Katy has to play the one tough semi final game and are in the finals while regions 1 and 2 are having the clash of the Titans every week.
Can you imagine the number of rings that Allen or Lufkin would have if their playoff schedule was Fort Worth Northside, Haltom, Keller, Brownsville Sanchez and then a semi final against one tough team?

[steeler 01]

You want to equate SLC as only being a complete team when they have Dodge at QB. The lack of Dodge made an enormous deference in their ability to drive that offense. Yet when Dodge went out of the MNW game it made no difference to you. SLC racked up points and yardage when Dodge was in and didnt when he was out. Both in MNW game and in the Abiline game.

Main Entry: hypocrite
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: person who pretends, is deceitful

With Dodge they didn't rack up points. 14 points isn't racking up anything.

[Austin109]

The USA has won the last 5 little league world series. The reason why is that the USA gets a free pass to the finals while the rest of the world vies for a single spot in the final. Its always the USA bracket versus the international bracket. For someone to say that its not an advantage for the USA to have an automatic placement in the finals is simply delusional or is being disengenous.
In the same way Katy has to play the one tough semi final game and are in the finals while regions 1 and 2 are having the clash of the Titans every week.
Can you imagine the number of rings that Allen or Lufkin would have if their playoff schedule was Fort Worth Northside, Haltom, Keller, Brownsville Sanchez and then a semi final against one tough team?

by the end of that playoff run they should be the toughest guys around if their key players arent all hurt. but katy still wins.

[maxtor]

I beleive you need to reread the state ranking again - something not right here --- how can Hebron with 8 wins and 3 loss be ranked ahead of Cedar Hill ---- or matter of factly Stratford and Humble has better record than Hebron......something not right here but anyway at the end Katy beat Wylie soundly.....:cool:

Hebron played the 4th toughest schedule(by rating) in the state including two losses to Wylie by a total of 10 points. Another loss was to #13 Plano.
Meanwhile Cedar Hill played the 31st toughest schedule in Texas.

7-4 Humble played the #46 toughest schedule while 5-4 Stratford played the #144 schedule.
It is self evident that the toughness of your schedule makes a marked difference in your record. You put Hebron in the middle of Houston and they go undefeated until the fourth round of the playoffs.

As far as Hebron having a better ranking than Cedar Hill it can be conceded that it is subjective whether each is # 15 or #22. The clear point is is that while Wylie is playing the #20 team in the state Katy was playing the #85th. No splitting hairs there.
The validity of the poll is in that the worst teams congregate at the bottom and the best teams are at the top with the middling teams taking their rightful place in between.

[Canes0177]

You are losing your mind and it needed to be pointed out...I did so and then Canes proved my point. They can recruit...We can not. A move in here and there does not equate to recruiting. You would like it to, so it would support your arguement, but simply put, it does not.

Also what would the amount of D1 athletes that came through Carroll have to do with the fact that in Texas a coach/team/program/school cannot recruit, yet in Florida they can?


One more thing before you try and say the amounts were equal, or close to it between Aquinas and Carroll. 90% of all the "D1" kids Carroll has had, have not turned out to be real D1 talent. They were elite at the high school level and were noticed because TD coached them up and in tv games and on videos they appeared to be these amazing, talented, super fast, studly athletes and when they went to college many of them weren't talented enough to see the field, many transfered because they couldn't get playing time at their original schools, and a few...in the case of McElroy, Daniel, Ulitowski and a few others they were real D1 talent and were able to be effective college athletes, but certainly the overwhelming majority of those Carroll players that seemed unworldly and studly in high school, found they were backups at the college level and several never even seen the field. I've tried saying for freakin years that there is a difference in Friday talent and Saturday talent and Sunday talent. One doesn't equate to other...call them busts or whatever you want, but really it's on the college scouts that see a Carroll reciever streak past a (insert high school team names here) DB 15 times in a season and say WOW that kid is amazing, when in fact he is not natural D1 talent, but rather he was coached very well, and then that kid goes to whatever the hell university and he is surrounded by real top notch athletes and suddenly finds himself fighting for a 8th spot at reciever. That my friend is not true D1 talent, that is a stud high school player that is an average college player.


The D1 kids on a MNW or Aquinas or DBP or DLS or LBP or Skyline or Desoto are real D1 kids that will be studs at the high school level and are the stars of tomorrow at the college level. Outside a a few I can count on my fingers, Carroll and Katy wont have those type of kids playing on Fridays.

No I didn't. No school can recruit in Florida. If we did we'd be turned over in a hot second.

Don't put words in my mouth. Thanks.

[Canes0177]

Yes,

Allen
Longview
Katy
North Shore
Stoney Point


There'd probably be a few more as the season materializes...who knows. I don't know if they'd beat them but it'd atleast be a game.

Tell me something....why doesn't STA play any of the good Dade Country schools like Northwestern? Y'll travel all over the country to play sorry teams when you got better competition in your own backyard....

Both counties control scheduling for their member schools. Northwestern is in Dade. STA is in Broward.

[Canes0177]

Question - If STA is allowed to recruit like you guys say they are, wouldn't the same thing apply to every other Florida school? So they would have to compete for those recruits and it makes sense that the attractive programs would probably get the best of them.

I guess you can equate that to the top programs in Texas attracting the best of the summer transfers. Yes or No?

Nobody has said that except SLC who is not informed at all about Florida High School football.

Recruiting is expressly forbidden. Just line in every other state.

[Canes0177]

Florida's governing body over amateur athletics is also widely considered to be a joke. The UIL, for better or worse, utilizes their power at every turn to it's fullest. Also, it was established that Dade county is an open enrollment area. Kids are near free to go where they want.

It's incredible how silly you people are.

I've said at least 4 times that Dade doesn't have open enrollment. They have enrollment zones and magnet programs.

Kids are not free to go wherever they want/

[steeler 01]

Nobody has said that except SLC who is not informed at all about Florida High School football.



A good question would be what he is informed about properly.:D

[Canes0177]

Ummmm .... how about both schools are located in the most fertile recruiting area in America and there are only 22 starting jobs on any given team?

So Miami had two all-star teams? And Central and Killian and Pace.....

[Canes0177]

You guys are starting to lose me here. Do Florida's private schools have to play by the same rules as the publics or not?

Of course. FHSAA rules are for every member school.

[Canes0177]

Just curious who STA sent, how many and where. Nobody really jumps out that I've heard of. I have not researched it. Was hoping somebody could help out.

Because as Pied reminded us, UT, Mizzou, Oregon and Bama play in major conferences.

http://www.aquinasfootball.com/files/Raider_Tradition/CollegePipeline/Aquinas_pipeline_2000-2009.htm

[twcpfan1]

http://www.aquinasfootball.com/files/Raider_Tradition/CollegePipeline/Aquinas_pipeline_2000-2009.htm


Thanks. That helped a lot.

[DownSouth]

You do realize this is like saying the Florida Gators weren't ever in doubt vs the Sooners... even when the game was 14-14 in the middle of the 4th Qtr. What you're saying is outright stupidity! To suggest the 2007 MNW team wasn't worried about losing - even when SLC went up 7-0 in the 1st qtr, even when they went up 14-7 in the 1st Qtr, even when it became 21-21 right before the half... and Tre Newton was about to make it 28-21, before he coughed up the ball on MNW's 5-yd line - wasn't in doubt, is crazy. And.. how many tds did MNW score in the entire 2nd half? 1! So, if Tre doesn't fumble and he scores, right before the half.. SLC is up 28-21. MNW then scores 1 td in the 2nd half and the game is tied... or MNW misses the PAT and SLC punts the ball out the back of the endzone to give MNW a Safety - like what actually happened. Also, don't forget that SLC drove within MNW's 20-yd line in the 4th Qtr, when they went for a FG (after a tipped sure td-pass in the endzone and penalty that moved them back)... and they didn't make it.

Simply put, neither team could rest until about 1:40 left to go in the game - that's when SLC's chances pretty much ended. However, it was a close match, between a "supposedly superior athletic team" who won the mythical national title vs a team that lost in the 3rd Round of a 6-Round playoff tournament, in Texas. Congrats!

Yeah... that (29-21) game was never in doubt! :rolleyes:




You guy's are great.

You must have been SO happy that Dodge got injured against Abilene.

Had he been able to continue I only wonder what excuses we would have heard when SLC won that game.

- All I doubt is that once MNW went up 8, that SLC seemed to have already given and taken theirs and MNW biggest shot. At that point, I think both teams seemed to pull in slowly to the finish, instead of a fast paced shootout to the end.

The 1st half was certainly a close game that SLC looked to nearly take control of; the second half, not so much.

Again, this isnt a bash of SLC. Just the way I saw the 2nd half go. Both sides were slow, tired, and both looked like they weren't able to do beyond what they had already done, this goes for MNW and SLC. At that point MNW played keep away and finished it out.

Still hard fought, still one of the toughest games of the season for them, but I don't think that once they went up 8 that they were ever in any real danger of losing that game, as scoring 9 points to win seemed a bit much for SLC to do at that point.

[DownSouth]

maxtor

DownSouth



You left out the other tail backs for MNW. Why was that? MNW averaged 2.7 yards as a team. SpinMaster.


- I left out what their other backs had because I don't know what the other backs had. Nor do I know where you keep coming up with "2.7 ypc"

Not that I find them to be very reliable, but its all I could find:

Maxpreps has rushing stats for MNW against SLC as 29 carries for 86 yards (as a team), which amounts to 2.96 yards a carry - pretty much 3 ypc.

Factor in Harris's rushing stats at 7 for -13 and it goes to 99 yards on 22 carries for a 4.5 yards per carry average.

From the looks of it, they were able to contain Harris from any runs when the pocket broke down, and/or sack him a couple of times.

It doesn't look like they did a great job containing the backs though.

So as a team they were held to 3 ypc, but as I had already said with Harris being the reason for dragging them down they go up to 99 yards on 4.5 ypc.

- The other backs would have been 11 for 33, 3.3 ypc. Not great, but not bad either, which is why they were backups.

Nice to see you don't jump to conclusions.:rolleyes:

SpinMaxtor.;)





The subject matter for this response was Katys ROAD to state. Yet you base your argument on this single example instead of the entirety of the playoff schedule.

- So of 6 games,

1 was against an opponent that did not deserve to be there, Stratford at 5-3 (record before playing Katy)

1, Humble, was just "decent" at 8-2-1

1, Dickinson, was 9-2

La Porte was 8-4 going into the Katy game - yet was good enough to make it to round 4

Smithson Valley was 13-1 going into the Katy game, and ranked highly in the state

and Wylie came in at 13-2 with wins over CC, CH, and lost to your "good" state champ Allen by 3.

Aside from the 1st round game, it would seem that Katy faced some pretty good teams. So either your DII state title is worthless, and your state isnt as deep in the talent poll as you'd like other to think, or Katy played a pretty tough crowd and you just decide to spin it as otherwise.




The overall stats were similar among the two teams. Passing about the same. Rushing about the same. Score almost the same. The sole difference in the game came down to a few more turnovers by SLC and a Bomb by MNW. Change a few plays and SLC gets to be the authors of how they won the game. You simply credit MNWs victory over SLC using stronger language and opinion than what reality supports.


I have never said otherwise. In fact, I agree with most of this.

All I've ever said was that MNW, up 8, and in the 2nd half was not likely to lose the game. I don't think they were in position to lose once the score became 29-21. 8 points against MNW would have been tough to overcome at that point in the game. - That's pretty much where my opnion comes from.

[DownSouth]

Central and Booker T. being each within 10 minutes of MNW at best implies that the beneficiaries of this viscous transfer/attendance rules are spread out amongst 3 teams instead of maybe 20.
SLC gets to chose players only within their own school zone. Which covers the huge area of a 4 1/2 mile square.
Nonetheless this isnt sour grapes. I was just making a correction for your readers. Southlake is proud and capable to play with whom they have.


No, it just suggests that the area has as much and likely more talent in those few city blocks than any other area of the country.

For Booker T, Central, and MNW are ranked every year, and all those kids come from within those school zones. Central got some transfers this year that came from Booker T. and another close by school (Seniors that transferred from within the school district), but the core of their team along with the cores of the MNW and Booker T. teams have been with those programs since their freshman year's.

[DownSouth]

Actually it was their(MNW) 4th game of the season if you count the scrimmage that they had. It was SLCs second game of the season. One wonders if playing 3 games instead of 1 games might be an advantage? Not bad for SLC having only 3 return on a defense that had played only one game prior to MNW. Then again I'm sure that you'll claim that extra games of experience actually dont matter.


What are you going to try and tell me next, that MNW held 20 practices to SLC's 16, therefore MNW had an unfair advantage?

This excuse of yours just seems kind of petty.:(

[Hitman49]

You guy's are great.

You must have been SO happy that Dodge got injured against Abilene.

Had he been able to continue I only wonder what excuses we would have heard when SLC won that game.

- All I doubt is that once MNW went up 8, that SLC seemed to have already given and taken theirs and MNW biggest shot. At that point, I think both teams seemed to pull in slowly to the finish, instead of a fast paced shootout to the end.

The 1st half was certainly a close game that SLC looked to nearly take control of; the second half, not so much.

Again, this isnt a bash of SLC. Just the way I saw the 2nd half go. Both sides were slow, tired, and both looked like they weren't able to do beyond what they had already done, this goes for MNW and SLC. At that point MNW played keep away and finished it out.

Still hard fought, still one of the toughest games of the season for them, but I don't think that once they went up 8 that they were ever in any real danger of losing that game, as scoring 9 points to win seemed a bit much for SLC to do at that point.


Basically it was a good game played by two good teams. Considering that MNW was one of the better teams that has ever come from Florida should prove that Texas has teams that can stand up to STA. Florida folks should take into consideration that Abilene who beat SLC that year did not win state nor did they even win their district. Abilene was 2nd place in district behind Odessa Permian. Abilene was beat two weeks later and the team that beat them was beat in the state championship by Katy. That Katy team was really good!!

[FeeltheHaka]

Another thing left out of the Southlake/MNW game was the fake injury timeouts that MNW took. The refs let the trainers come out on the field to stretch the players out for about 5 minutes due to cramps! I can't believe the refs let this happen! It happened about 5 times! The next play, the player that was just stretched on the field due to cramps came back in! This only seemed to happen when Southlake was gaining momentum on offense and moving the ball down the field. Ordinarily in a Texas High School Football game, the refs would not allow this to happen.

[maxtor]

maxtor

DownSouth


The subject matter for this response was Katys ROAD to state. Yet you base your argument on this single example instead of the entirety of the playoff schedule.

- So of 6 games,

1 was against an opponent that did not deserve to be there, Stratford at 5-3 (record before playing Katy)

1, Humble, was just "decent" at 8-2-1

1, Dickinson, was 9-2

La Porte was 8-4 going into the Katy game - yet was good enough to make it to round 4

Smithson Valley was 13-1 going into the Katy game, and ranked highly in the state

and Wylie came in at 13-2 with wins over CC, CH, and lost to your "good" state champ Allen by 3.

Aside from the 1st round game, it would seem that Katy faced some pretty good teams. So either your DII state title is worthless, and your state isnt as deep in the talent poll as you'd like other to think, or Katy played a pretty tough crowd and you just decide to spin it as otherwise.




I guess you missed this post.

Wylie did not play Allen in the playoffs. Below is the playoff schedules of Wylie and Katy on their way to state. There is a MARKED difference in how much easier Katy's road was. Keeping in mind that Wylies really wasnt all that tough. It just goes to show that in MOST years Katy only has to compete with SV for the annual shot at D2 state in their corner of the world. Katy is a bonafied elite team. Then again one wonders what their trophy case would look like if they had to go through Allen, Lufkin, SLC, Trinity, Permian and on and on every year. Essentially, Katy has to play a tough game in the semis to make it to state many times. Yes, there is an exception or two(2007).

KATY 2008

(122) Houston Stratford (5-3)

(91) Humble (7-2)

(76) Dickinson (9-2)

(59) La Porte (8-4)

(14) Smithson Valley (13-1)




WYLIE 2008

(124) Irving (5-5)

(15) Lewisville Hebron (8-3) (OT)

(23) Arlington Bowie (11-1)

(17) Cedar Hill (12-1)

(11) Copperas Cove (13-1)


According to state rankings:

While Katy was playing the #122 team in the state during playoff week one, Wylie was playing #124.

While Katy was playing the #91 team in the state during playoff week two, Wylie was playing #15.

While Katy was playing the #76 team in the state during playoff week three, Wylie was playing #23.

While Katy was playing the #59 team in the state during playoff week four, Wylie was playing #17.

While Katy was playing the #14 team in the state during playoff week five, Wylie was playing #11.