Global Climate Change...up and down...

[slcdragonfan]

Here's some interesting data....

Record setting cold in US, record setting heat the rest of the globe...
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate/2009-08-10-july-climate-report_N.htm?csp=34


Ice Melt data....
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090810/ap_on_sc/cn_canada_ice_retreats;_ylt=ApIGGHKUmZmIJhRvrCHqdF sPLBIF;_ylu=X3oDMTJuZGpjZDNiBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwOD EwL2NuX2NhbmFkYV9pY2VfcmV0cmVhdHMEY3BvcwMxBHBvcwMy BHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA3Zhc3RleHBhbnNlcw--

So, what do you think? Same ol' same ol'? Propaganda? My god we are going to boil like lobsters in the next 50 years?

[JOH]

Here's some interesting data....

Record setting cold in US, record setting heat the rest of the globe...
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate/2009-08-10-july-climate-report_N.htm?csp=34


Ice Melt data....
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090810/ap_on_sc/cn_canada_ice_retreats;_ylt=ApIGGHKUmZmIJhRvrCHqdF sPLBIF;_ylu=X3oDMTJuZGpjZDNiBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwOD EwL2NuX2NhbmFkYV9pY2VfcmV0cmVhdHMEY3BvcwMxBHBvcwMy BHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA3Zhc3RleHBhbnNlcw--

So, what do you think? Same ol' same ol'? Propaganda? My god we are going to boil like lobsters in the next 50 years?

Our impending doom will always be 50 years away.

[15Adragon]

Here's some interesting data....

Record setting cold in US, record setting heat the rest of the globe...
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate/2009-08-10-july-climate-report_N.htm?csp=34


Ice Melt data....
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090810/ap_on_sc/cn_canada_ice_retreats;_ylt=ApIGGHKUmZmIJhRvrCHqdF sPLBIF;_ylu=X3oDMTJuZGpjZDNiBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwOD EwL2NuX2NhbmFkYV9pY2VfcmV0cmVhdHMEY3BvcwMxBHBvcwMy BHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA3Zhc3RleHBhbnNlcw--

So, what do you think? Same ol' same ol'? Propaganda? My god we are going to boil like lobsters in the next 50 years?

Same old nonsense. 1 group wanting to tell you what to do, how you should feel and how much you should owe... and another that wants to live sensibily. uhhhhg... sigh.... uhhhg...

[15Adragon]

Our impending doom will always be 50 years away.

Please re-post your previous post ( a few weeks ago) on this that went ignored. ;)

Global warming in of itself is pure arrogance. The similarity with health care is they want no real debate. Just feed the LW media some bullets and strut some nutty (and paid-off) professors out there and say it is so.... Here is your 5$ light bulb and have a nice day.

[Favpack]

Ted Danson said we had 10 years..... in 1988. Hummmm.

[slorch]

Ted Danson said we had 10 years..... in 1988. Hummmm.

10 years worth of beer?:eek:

truly a crisis!

[dragonsdaddy]

i was under the impression we were shooting for 21 dec 2012.

[smw358]

I know this is a long video.....but the History expert has some pretty interesting viewpoints regarding global warming......and the whole scheme of things.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw

[slcdragonfan]

Interesting piece on some skeptics and their current take on global warming...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/theweek/206686

[drgnbkr]

The change hoaxers are being exposed...

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/196642

[15Adragon]

The GW folks need a moment of silence and a hug. :D

[15Adragon]

Pied, Can I "this" myself if the original post is a year old? Just kidding...

(for those that missed it, we had someone "this" themselves in a main 5A thread... ) carry on..

[Mong Hu]

Interesting letter from: Harold Lewis,
Emeritus Professor of Physics, University of California, Santa Barbara, former Chairman; Former member Defense Science Board, chmn of Technology panel; Chairman DSB study on Nuclear Winter; Former member Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards; Former member, President’s Nuclear Safety Oversight Committee; Chairman APS study on Nuclear Reactor SafetyChairman Risk Assessment Review Group; Co-founder and former Chairman of JASON; Former member USAF Scientific Advisory Board; Served in US Navy in WW II; books: Technological Risk (about, surprise, technological risk) and Why Flip a Coin (about decision making)

To: the APS (American Physical Society)
Re: Letter of Resignation (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100058265/us-physics-professor-global-warming-is-the-greatest-and-most-successful-pseudoscientific-fraud-i-have-seen-in-my-long-life/) over the pseudoscientific fraud of Global Warming

It is of course, the global warming scam, with the (literally) trillions of dollars driving it, that has corrupted so many scientists, and has carried APS before it like a rogue wave. It is the greatest and most successful pseudoscientific fraud I have seen in my long life as a physicist. Anyone who has the faintest doubt that this is so should force himself to read the ClimateGate documents, which lay it bare. (Montford’s book organizes the facts very well.) I don’t believe that any real physicist, nay scientist, can read that stuff without revulsion. I would almost make that revulsion a definition of the word scientist.

Since I am no philosopher, I’m not going to explore at just which point enlightened self-interest crosses the line into corruption, but a careful reading of the ClimateGate releases makes it clear that this is not an academic question.

Interesting Letter.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100058265/us-physics-professor-global-warming-is-the-greatest-and-most-successful-pseudoscientific-fraud-i-have-seen-in-my-long-life/

[chhspantherfan]

Interesting letter from: Harold Lewis,
Emeritus Professor of Physics, University of California, Santa Barbara, former Chairman; Former member Defense Science Board, chmn of Technology panel; Chairman DSB study on Nuclear Winter; Former member Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards; Former member, President’s Nuclear Safety Oversight Committee; Chairman APS study on Nuclear Reactor SafetyChairman Risk Assessment Review Group; Co-founder and former Chairman of JASON; Former member USAF Scientific Advisory Board; Served in US Navy in WW II; books: Technological Risk (about, surprise, technological risk) and Why Flip a Coin (about decision making)

To: the APS (American Physical Society)
Re: Letter of Resignation (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100058265/us-physics-professor-global-warming-is-the-greatest-and-most-successful-pseudoscientific-fraud-i-have-seen-in-my-long-life/) over the pseudoscientific fraud of Global Warming





Interesting Letter.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100058265/us-physics-professor-global-warming-is-the-greatest-and-most-successful-pseudoscientific-fraud-i-have-seen-in-my-long-life/



just read the whole thing and I would imagine we will have the psychoanalysts and geriatric mental diagnosticians chiming in pretty soon. Seriously, he is very straightforward in his points and I particularly enjoyed the last paragraph, as folllows.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I do feel the need to add one note, and this is conjecture, since it is always risky to discuss other people’s motives. This scheming at APS HQ is so bizarre that there cannot be a simple explanation for it. Some have held that the physicists of today are not as smart as they used to be, but I don’t think that is an issue. I think it is the money, exactly what Eisenhower warned about a half-century ago. There are indeed trillions of dollars involved, to say nothing of the fame and glory (and frequent trips to exotic islands) that go with being a member of the club. Your own Physics Department (of which you are chairman) would lose millions a year if the global warming bubble burst. When Penn State absolved Mike Mann of wrongdoing, and the University of East Anglia did the same for Phil Jones, they cannot have been unaware of the financial penalty for doing otherwise. As the old saying goes, you don’t have to be a weatherman to know which way the wind is blowing. Since I am no philosopher, I’m not going to explore at just which point enlightened self-interest crosses the line into corruption, but a careful reading of the ClimateGate releases makes it clear that this is not an academic question.
I want no part of it, so please accept my resignation. APS no longer represents me, but I hope we are still friends.
Hal

[LR46]

Interesting letter from: Harold Lewis,
Emeritus Professor of Physics, University of California, Santa Barbara, former Chairman; Former member Defense Science Board, chmn of Technology panel; Chairman DSB study on Nuclear Winter; Former member Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards; Former member, President’s Nuclear Safety Oversight Committee; Chairman APS study on Nuclear Reactor SafetyChairman Risk Assessment Review Group; Co-founder and former Chairman of JASON; Former member USAF Scientific Advisory Board; Served in US Navy in WW II; books: Technological Risk (about, surprise, technological risk) and Why Flip a Coin (about decision making)

To: the APS (American Physical Society)
Re: Letter of Resignation (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100058265/us-physics-professor-global-warming-is-the-greatest-and-most-successful-pseudoscientific-fraud-i-have-seen-in-my-long-life/) over the pseudoscientific fraud of Global Warming





Interesting Letter.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100058265/us-physics-professor-global-warming-is-the-greatest-and-most-successful-pseudoscientific-fraud-i-have-seen-in-my-long-life/

MH: take a chill pill . . . it's all Al Gore's fault anyway, you know that. Like most everything else discussed in the yard . . . pure Popycock! But it does make for interesting bathroom reading.

MH: again you're way too serious. If you don't stop you may be dead in ohhhh . . . a lot sooner than you hoped. I know , I've been there, got the T-Shirt. RELAX, smile and be happy!!

[slcdragonfan]

Interesting letter from: Harold Lewis,
Emeritus Professor of Physics, University of California, Santa Barbara, former Chairman; Former member Defense Science Board, chmn of Technology panel; Chairman DSB study on Nuclear Winter; Former member Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards; Former member, President’s Nuclear Safety Oversight Committee; Chairman APS study on Nuclear Reactor SafetyChairman Risk Assessment Review Group; Co-founder and former Chairman of JASON; Former member USAF Scientific Advisory Board; Served in US Navy in WW II; books: Technological Risk (about, surprise, technological risk) and Why Flip a Coin (about decision making)

To: the APS (American Physical Society)
Re: Letter of Resignation (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100058265/us-physics-professor-global-warming-is-the-greatest-and-most-successful-pseudoscientific-fraud-i-have-seen-in-my-long-life/) over the pseudoscientific fraud of Global Warming





Interesting Letter.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100058265/us-physics-professor-global-warming-is-the-greatest-and-most-successful-pseudoscientific-fraud-i-have-seen-in-my-long-life/

A good piece of information, and a possible indictment of the current state of science. However, I am still curious as to the cause and effect we are seeing in relation to the changes we see around us. It may or may not be man-made, it may be solar wind (really, I am not be facetious), it may be regular variability, it may be related to that fact that we have not had a giant volcano explosion or meteor hit us in 10,000 years, who knows. But I do think we can observe some significant changes in climate, whether there are manipulations by the science community or not. You can see it in pictures of glaciers over time, in the amount of measured sea ice, in change in animal habitats, etc. While a glacier may grow in South America now, Europe, North America and the North Pole region seem to be changing radically.

Or do we simply deny there is any change occurring at all? I guess that is an option.

Back to the point at hand, I would like to see a counter response to his letter by the involved parties to see both sides.

[slcdragonfan]

MH: take a chill pill . . . it's all Al Gore's fault anyway, you know that. Like most everything else discussed in the yard . . . pure Popycock! But it does make for interesting bathroom reading.

MH: again you're way too serious. If you don't stop you may be dead in ohhhh . . . a lot sooner than you hoped. I know , I've been there, got the T-Shirt. RELAX, smile and be happy!!

Serious conversations can take place on this board. I for one appreciate a conversation without 'DERP' and with serious and well-thought ideas interchanged.

MH is a well-reasoned individual who is engaged in his world. Whether we agree on points is not the issue as much as the fact that he cares enough to have ideas and interchange them.

[LR46]

Serious conversations can take place on this board. I for one appreciate a conversation without 'DERP' and with serious and well-thought ideas interchanged.

MH is a well-reasoned individual who is engaged in his world. Whether we agree on points is not the issue as much as the fact that he cares enough to have ideas and interchange them.

Sorry, 15 yard penalty. I'm only engaged in the other fake world on here. I now know that some (very few) people here acutally have a brain. His world is too serious for me on this board.

But I do respect your point. U R correct sir.

BTW - who is the DERP guy you are referring too anyway? I'm kidding.

Speaking serioiusly though, it is all Al Gore's fault and you know that too.

[slcdragonfan]

Sorry, 15 yard penalty. I'm only engaged in the other fake world on here. I now know that some (very few) people here acutally have a brain. His world is too serious for me on this board.

But I do respect your point. U R correct sir.

BTW - who is the DERP guy you are referring too anyway? I'm kidding.

Speaking serioiusly though, it is all Al Gore's fault and you know that too.

Mebbe we can bundle Gore and Bush together to blame, a sort of Gorebush. or Dubyal Boregush.

[mojotrain]

I wanna know what happened to the 2000 ft thick ice cap that covered Indiana two million years ago. Was it still there when oil was discovered?

[Firebird]

A good piece of information, and a possible indictment of the current state of science. However, I am still curious as to the cause and effect we are seeing in relation to the changes we see around us. It may or may not be man-made, it may be solar wind (really, I am not be facetious), it may be regular variability, it may be related to that fact that we have not had a giant volcano explosion or meteor hit us in 10,000 years, who knows. But I do think we can observe some significant changes in climate, whether there are manipulations by the science community or not. You can see it in pictures of glaciers over time, in the amount of measured sea ice, in change in animal habitats, etc. While a glacier may grow in South America now, Europe, North America and the North Pole region seem to be changing radically.

Or do we simply deny there is any change occurring at all? I guess that is an option.

Back to the point at hand, I would like to see a counter response to his letter by the involved parties to see both sides.

The reason that the glaciers get bigger in the south while the north warms is that heat rises. It's little by little increments over the years, but all the built up heat from the center of the earth radiates upward to the top, the North Pole. The south is at the bottom (look at any map) and therefore cools off.

[tayb]

A good piece of information, and a possible indictment of the current state of science. However, I am still curious as to the cause and effect we are seeing in relation to the changes we see around us. It may or may not be man-made, it may be solar wind (really, I am not be facetious), it may be regular variability, it may be related to that fact that we have not had a giant volcano explosion or meteor hit us in 10,000 years, who knows. But I do think we can observe some significant changes in climate, whether there are manipulations by the science community or not. You can see it in pictures of glaciers over time, in the amount of measured sea ice, in change in animal habitats, etc. While a glacier may grow in South America now, Europe, North America and the North Pole region seem to be changing radically.

Or do we simply deny there is any change occurring at all? I guess that is an option.

Back to the point at hand, I would like to see a counter response to his letter by the involved parties to see both sides.

I don't want to respond to this because doing some would give fodder to the skeptics.

[slcdragonfan]

The reason that the glaciers get bigger in the south while the north warms is that heat rises. It's little by little increments over the years, but all the built up heat from the center of the earth radiates upward to the top, the North Pole. The south is at the bottom (look at any map) and therefore cools off.

:rofl:

[mojotrain]

:rofl:

+:)

[drgnbkr]

OK, then why is it hotter in Phoenix than Flagstaff?:p

[the_phoenix612]

Interesting letter from: Harold Lewis,
Emeritus Professor of Physics, University of California, Santa Barbara, former Chairman; Former member Defense Science Board, chmn of Technology panel; Chairman DSB study on Nuclear Winter; Former member Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards; Former member, President’s Nuclear Safety Oversight Committee; Chairman APS study on Nuclear Reactor SafetyChairman Risk Assessment Review Group; Co-founder and former Chairman of JASON; Former member USAF Scientific Advisory Board; Served in US Navy in WW II; books: Technological Risk (about, surprise, technological risk) and Why Flip a Coin (about decision making)

To: the APS (American Physical Society)
Re: Letter of Resignation (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100058265/us-physics-professor-global-warming-is-the-greatest-and-most-successful-pseudoscientific-fraud-i-have-seen-in-my-long-life/) over the pseudoscientific fraud of Global Warming





Interesting Letter.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100058265/us-physics-professor-global-warming-is-the-greatest-and-most-successful-pseudoscientific-fraud-i-have-seen-in-my-long-life/
why so many "former"s in that list? methinks that says something.

[slcdragonfan]

OK, then why is it hotter in Phoenix than Flagstaff?:p

Because Phoenix (1117 feet) is lower than Flagstaff (6,910 feet)and thus closer to hell on earth. :D

I think I have this Global Warming thing figured out. Now we must address the Global Water Retention problem I have mentioned on numerous occasions. I am looking for federal funding and am starting my own physics department, non-believers not admitted.

[Mong Hu]

A good piece of information, and a possible indictment of the current state of science. However, I am still curious as to the cause and effect we are seeing in relation to the changes we see around us. It may or may not be man-made, it may be solar wind (really, I am not be facetious), it may be regular variability, it may be related to that fact that we have not had a giant volcano explosion or meteor hit us in 10,000 years, who knows. But I do think we can observe some significant changes in climate, whether there are manipulations by the science community or not. You can see it in pictures of glaciers over time, in the amount of measured sea ice, in change in animal habitats, etc. While a glacier may grow in South America now, Europe, North America and the North Pole region seem to be changing radically.

Agree with everything you have said here

Or do we simply deny there is any change occurring at all? I guess that is an option.

To deny change is to deny the history of the earth. The history of the earth is of constant change.

Back to the point at hand, I would like to see a counter response to his letter by the involved parties to see both sides.


I agree that change is happening but I don't think anyone has ever made a credible argument for a static earth. Our world is forever changing and we are forever changing it. I agree the climate is changing and I agree that we should try to be careful with our environment as our ability to impact the environment continues to grow. I just do not believe that we understand all the complex interactions that influence our climate nearly well enough to claim that the debate is over and the facts are in and beyond dispute. This type of hubris is in fact more dangerous than all the pollution we have pumped into the seas, air, and earth over the past 3 centuries.

I too would like to see the response to the letter of resignation. It is always interesting and helpful to be aware of both sides of a debate which is why I posted the article in the first place. Nothing is perhaps more damning of the global warming advocates positions than the ferocity with which they attack their opponents in this argument with out furthering their own points. Nothing to me is more indicative of this than the recent flap over the 10/10/10 video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSTLDel-G9k) in Europe.

[drgnbkr]

Because Phoenix (1117 feet) is lower than Flagstaff (6,910 feet)and thus closer to hell on earth. :D

I think I have this Global Warming thing figured out. Now we must address the Global Water Retention problem I have mentioned on numerous occasions. I am looking for federal funding and am starting my own physics department, non-believers not admitted.

Oh....Climate change is pretty much a constant..it is the carbon taxes and other such nonsense that are mostly hot air.

[Mong Hu]

why so many "former"s in that list? methinks that says something.
It is saying something. The man fought in WWII and has a very long and very distinguished career. I think that is what it means.

[Mong Hu]

Because Phoenix (1117 feet) is lower than Flagstaff (6,910 feet)and thus closer to hell on earth. :D

I think I have this Global Warming thing figured out. Now we must address the Global Water Retention problem I have mentioned on numerous occasions. I am looking for federal funding and am starting my own physics department, non-believers not admitted.
Apply for stimulus money while you can. I am sure you could create jobs with a project of that magnitude.

[Mong Hu]

Because Phoenix (1117 feet) is lower than Flagstaff (6,910 feet)and thus closer to hell on earth. :D

I think I have this Global Warming thing figured out. Now we must address the Global Water Retention problem I have mentioned on numerous occasions. I am looking for federal funding and am starting my own physics department, non-believers not admitted.
I thought hell on earth was Houston. Oh wait wrong thread my bad.

[slcdragonfan]

I thought hell on earth was Houston. Oh wait wrong thread my bad.

No, that would be Lubbock. :rofl:

[Mong Hu]

No, that would be Lubbock. :rofl:
Only been through Lubbock once. Had to stay the night. Got forced off the road by a blizzard. Nasty stuff

[slcdragonfan]

Only been through Lubbock once. Had to stay the night. Got forced off the road by a blizzard. Nasty stuff

ssshhhh. I am trolling for TT fans....