I love it.....

[Dawg Fan]

I love the way this guy handles the CNN reporter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNmi-bBhWG8

[JOH]

I love the way this guy handles the CNN reporter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNmi-bBhWG8

:notworthy

[stevefoxsc]

Should have went with a hand gun for home defense.

Aint nothing wrong with an ak-47 just not the best first timer wepon imo.

[Dawg Fan]

Should have went with a hand gun for home defense.

Aint nothing wrong with an ak-47 just not the best first timer wepon imo.

I agree but I got a kick out of the interview

[stevefoxsc]

I agree but I got a kick out of the interview

yeah she bit off more than could chew.

[jrock210]

I love his arguement!
"There's a bunch of evil in the world and people need to protect themselves!"

Or AK47 for hunting....

[yankee]

I love the way this guy handles the CNN reporter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNmi-bBhWG8

hahahaha that's f'n awesome!

[DragonWatcher]

Should have went with a hand gun for home defense.

Aint nothing wrong with an ak-47 just not the best first timer wepon imo.

I've shot a lot of different guns, love going to the range to shoot and I concur. Ak's are a blast to shoot, only thing that tops it for me for fun was when I got to use an antique blackpowder rifle, and that was mainly for the experience of loading it, the noise and the kick that nearly dislocates your shoulder.

I wouldn't recomend it for a first time gone owner, would be way to easy to shoot yourself in the foot or for any other type of accident.

I disagree with the cnn reporter of course, all ak's are required to be semi auto's in the state, and most violent crimes are not committed with assault weapons in the country.

[su4c]

Should have went with a shotgun for home defense.

Aint nothing wrong with an ak-47 just not the best first timer wepon imo.

fify. At least for first choice anyway.

[CCCSportsFan]

yeah she bit off more than could chew.

+1... I loved how he would not let her talk over him when she didn't like his answer. She got taken to school :D

[b756561]

stevefoxsc[/b]
Originally Posted by stevefoxsc http://www.5atexasfootball.com/forum/vB/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.5atexasfootball.com/forum/vB/showthread.php?p=1250270#post1250270)
Should have went with a shotgun for home defense.fify. At least for first choice anyway.

I keep my 12 gauge pump shotgun with a pistol grip and a 20 inch barrel resting in the corner next to my bed. Ain't nobody coming up those stairs without my permission. Rob the first floor and I will never say a word while you are doing it, try to come to the second floor where my family is and you will not see the sun come up ever again.
Just a fact.

[cyfallsbooster2]

+1... I loved how he would not let her talk over him when she didn't like his answer. She got taken to school :D

The fact that she could not handle someone who spoke their mind rather than giving her the PC answer is very telling about today's media. Today's media is worthless.

[cyfallsbooster2]

I keep my 12 gauge pump shotgun with a pistol grip and a 20 inch barrel resting in the corner next to my bed. Ain't nobody coming up those stairs without my permission. Rob the first floor and I will never say a word while you are doing it, try to come to the second floor where my family is and you will not see the sun come up ever again.
Just a fact.

The 12ga is best for personal defense. Mine lies in the bed frame right next to me.

I have the 30-06 for 100+ yards, the .223 for 100-yards, the 12ga for close in and then the 40cal for the final seige.

[Slim-Rob]

It's not like they are saying "here's your truck, the AK is in the back seat"

the people have to go through the proper background check and everything at a gun store.

Agreed, not a good home defense weapon. Shotgun is good but a low powered pistol may be better? We have a .357 Magnum as our home defense weapon and that's not good because those bullets will go through our neighbors house into the next house over hahaha

[cyfallsbooster2]

It's not like they are saying "here's your truck, the AK is in the back seat"

the people have to go through the proper background check and everything at a gun store.

Agreed, not a good home defense weapon. Shotgun is good but a low powered pistol may be better? We have a .357 Magnum as our home defense weapon and that's not good because those bullets will go through our neighbors house into the next house over hahaha

No, the pistols are not better. The 12ga is the best personal defense weapon. It has the most punch without the wall penetrating problem of the bulleted guns.

[su4c]

No, the pistols are not better. The 12ga is the best personal defense weapon. It has the most punch without the wall penetrating problem of the bulleted guns.

Not to mention the shotgun comes equipped with the "Texas Burglar Alarm"

[cyfallsbooster2]

Not to mention the shotgun comes equipped with the "Texas Burglar Alarm"

Cha-click!:eek:

[cyfallsbooster2]

Cha-click!:eek:

Actually, that sound is a detriment to your safety. Now a days, they hear that ....they start firing. You should always have a shell chambered and ready to fire. Fire first, ask questions later.:cool:

[DragonWatcher]

Actually, that sound is a detriment to your safety. Now a days, they hear that ....they start firing. You should always have a shell chambered and ready to fire. Fire first, ask questions later.:cool:

See thats why i don't like shotguns for home defense, having a shell chambered is an accident waiting to happen. I'm with the pistol.

[su4c]

See thats why i don't like shotguns for home defense, having a shell chambered is an accident waiting to happen. I'm with the pistol.

Whats the difference between a chambered shotgun round and a chambered pistol round?

[b756561]

The 12ga is best for personal defense. Mine lies in the bed frame right next to me.

I have the 30-06 for 100+ yards, the .223 for 100-yards, the 12ga for close in and then the 40cal for the final seige.

Agreed, I have the Merlin 30/30 w/scope for 150+yardage, the 30-06 for 100-150 yards, the .223 for 20-100 yards, the .22 shorts if I wanna piss him off, the 12 gauge pump for close in, the .38 special with dum-dums for that really close stuff and the k-bar if somehow all those others don't work. As a last resort, I've got my German Shepard and the wife has her Toy Poodle (just the thought makes me laugh) and her Chihuahua. I'm more wary of that damn Chihuahua than I am of any of the others. That little s**t is fast. I tried to kick the damn thing and he bit me twice, once as my leg was swinging out and then he got me again as I was lowering my leg. Teeth like ice picks. He has a terminal illness, my wife and the damn mute just don't know it yet. That little sucker's gonna die. Trust me on this one. And it's gonna be soon. :mad: Don't get me wrong, I love dogs. I can not tell you how mad I get if someone even talks about mistreating one. But that little Chihuahua, that sucker's gonna die.

[Bass]

Whats the difference between a chambered shotgun round and a chambered pistol round?

I know on my Colt .45 you can have a round chambered but you can't pull the trigger unless the hammer is cocked, so you can just pull the hammer back silently when you need to. The only other pistols I've had experience with don't have that ability.
Still, that's really dangerous. After pulling the trigger, cocking the hammer's probably the next thing any kid would do if they found a gun.

Also, if you keep a pistol loaded, it's pretty simple to "silently" chamber a round, where with a shotgun there's no real easy way.

[b756561]

I know on my Colt .45 you can have a round chambered but you can't pull the trigger unless the hammer is cocked, so you can just pull the hammer back silently when you need to. The only other pistols I've had experience with don't have that ability.
Still, that's really dangerous. After pulling the trigger, cocking the hammer's probably the next thing any kid would do if they found a gun.

Also, if you keep a pistol loaded, it's pretty simple to "silently" chamber a round, where with a shotgun there's no real easy way.

In a fight between a Colt .45 and a 12 gauge pump shotgun, I think I will go with the shotgun, oh something like, I don't know, maybe 100 out of 100 times. Are you friggin' kidding me? A Colt .45, I think even the Army quit using those because they found they had no stopping power. During W.W.II, the Japanese would get sakied up and do a Banzai attack on the American forces. That dinky little .45 just didn't have the power to put the attackers down.

[su4c]

I know on my Colt .45 you can have a round chambered but you can't pull the trigger unless the hammer is cocked, so you can just pull the hammer back silently when you need to. The only other pistols I've had experience with don't have that ability.
Still, that's really dangerous. After pulling the trigger, cocking the hammer's probably the next thing any kid would do if they found a gun.

Also, if you keep a pistol loaded, it's pretty simple to "silently" chamber a round, where with a shotgun there's no real easy way.

I think that's where it comes down to the parents... I was raised in a house with guns so I was never one of those kids who picked up a gun a stared down the barrel to see if there was a bullet inside... or pretended to shoot bad guys like the show I saw on TV. So I've never had to decide between which gun was "safer", but I could see how some skeptical parents or first-time owners would.

As for silent chambering, it comes down to personal preference. Some people prefer silence so they won't let they intruder know if they're alert or aware... they can catch him off guard. Other people prefer the sound of the gun being cocked hoping it will scare off the intruder.. of course this argument is pointless if you have an alarm system.

[b756561]

I think that's where it comes down to the parents... I was raised in a house with guns so I was never one of those kids who picked up a gun a stared down the barrel to see if there was a bullet inside... or pretended to shoot bad guys like the show I saw on TV. So I've never had to decide between which gun was "safer", but I could see how some skeptical parents or first-time owners would.

As for silent chambering, it comes down to personal preference. Some people prefer silence so they won't let they intruder know if they're alert or aware... they can catch him off guard. Other people prefer the sound of the gun being cocked hoping it will scare off the intruder.. of course this argument is pointless if you have an alarm system.

Forget all that, does anybody want a Chihuahua? Maybe I can give it away tonight and I can tell the wife it ran outside when I opened the door. Really dear, I looked all over for that dog and I just couldn't find it. I'll look again tomorrow. :D

[su4c]

Forget all that, does anybody want a Chihuahua? Maybe I can give it away tonight and I can tell the wife it ran outside when I opened the door. Really dear, I looked all over for that dog and I just couldn't find it. I'll look again tomorrow. :D

Take it to a dog park... lead him near a larger dog (preferably a Doberman or Rott). It will inevitably yip yip yip at big dog until big dog gets severely annoyed... then let nature run its course. :ninja:

[ktCarl]

Forget all that, does anybody want a Chihuahua? Maybe I can give it away tonight and I can tell the wife it ran outside when I opened the door. Really dear, I looked all over for that dog and I just couldn't find it. I'll look again tomorrow. :D

You need a .22 pistol.

You guys are ready for war. Can we get ya'll to move close to the border and pick off a few drug dealers and coyotes? :D

[ktCarl]

Agreed, I have the Merlin 30/30 w/scope for 150+yardage, the 30-06 for 100-150 yards, the .223 for 20-100 yards, the .22 shorts if I wanna piss him off, the 12 gauge pump for close in, the .38 special with dum-dums for that really close stuff and the k-bar if somehow all those others don't work. As a last resort, I've got my German Shepard and the wife has her Toy Poodle (just the thought makes me laugh) and her Chihuahua. I'm more wary of that damn Chihuahua than I am of any of the others. That little s**t is fast. I tried to kick the damn thing and he bit me twice, once as my leg was swinging out and then he got me again as I was lowering my leg. Teeth like ice picks. He has a terminal illness, my wife and the damn mute just don't know it yet. That little sucker's gonna die. Trust me on this one. And it's gonna be soon. :mad: Don't get me wrong, I love dogs. I can not tell you how mad I get if someone even talks about mistreating one. But that little Chihuahua, that sucker's gonna die.

I've got 5 cats. How much $$ will it take to have you shoot 3 of them?

[ktCarl]

It's not like they are saying "here's your truck, the AK is in the back seat"

the people have to go through the proper background check and everything at a gun store.

Agreed, not a good home defense weapon. Shotgun is good but a low powered pistol may be better? We have a .357 Magnum as our home defense weapon and that's not good because those bullets will go through our neighbors house into the next house over hahaha

Just don't use magnum loads plus use hollow points and and go to the gun range to practice accuracy. Have a home security alarm.

I like the AK-47 promo. That idea would work in Texas for sure. People that didn't need a new truck or car would go out and buy one!!

[ktCarl]

hahahaha that's f'n awesome!

Those self absorbed, self important news people amaze me. She was most concerned about the guy giving away AK-47s and using God and Guns in the same sentence of his promo ad. She didn't have an intellegent point to make and was easy game for that guy.

[cyfallsbooster2]

Whats the difference between a chambered shotgun round and a chambered pistol round?

This. If you have a gun for self protection, there should always be one in the chamber.

[cyfallsbooster2]

I'm more wary of that damn Chihuahua than I am of any of the others. That little s**t is fast. I tried to kick the damn thing and he bit me twice, once as my leg was swinging out and then he got me again as I was lowering my leg. Teeth like ice picks. He has a terminal illness, my wife and the damn mute just don't know it yet. That little sucker's gonna die. Trust me on this one. And it's gonna be soon. :mad: Don't get me wrong, I love dogs. I can not tell you how mad I get if someone even talks about mistreating one. But that little Chihuahua, that sucker's gonna die.

:notworthy

[pied]

I tried to kick the damn thing and he bit me twice, once as my leg was swinging out and then he got me again as I was lowering my leg. Teeth like ice picks. He has a terminal illness, my wife and the damn mute just don't know it yet. That little sucker's gonna die. Trust me on this one. And it's gonna be soon. :mad: Don't get me wrong, I love dogs. I can not tell you how mad I get if someone even talks about mistreating one. But that little Chihuahua, that sucker's gonna die.

Does kicking a dog count?

[cyfallsbooster2]

Does kicking a dog count?

Now don't go taking things out of context. Besides, those little things are not dogs...........they are the devil!

[CCCSportsFan]

Not to mention the shotgun comes equipped with the "Texas Burglar Alarm"

In my previous subdivision there was a string of burgularies in the middle of the night. The perp's would ring your doorbell around 2-3am and hoping half asleep homeowners would open the door in a haze and they'd then put a gun in your face and come on into your house. The perp's tried to hit my neighbors house and his "Texas Burglar Alarm" scared them off real fast. He said he just saw a blur going flying off his porch once he chamber a round into his 12 guage :ninja:

I promptly went out and bought a police grade 12 guage myself but after my neighbors incident our subdivision never had a problem again with these perp's...

[BDB]

We count hundreds on the table, twentys on the floor
Fresh outta work and on the way with some more
And I love it (yeah!), and I love it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAzxYclC8Fs

[Maroondog]

In a fight between a Colt .45 and a 12 gauge pump shotgun, I think I will go with the shotgun, oh something like, I don't know, maybe 100 out of 100 times. Are you friggin' kidding me? A Colt .45, I think even the Army quit using those because they found they had no stopping power. During W.W.II, the Japanese would get sakied up and do a Banzai attack on the American forces. That dinky little .45 just didn't have the power to put the attackers down.

A .45 with personal defense ammo has MORE than adequate stopping power. That being said, in close quarters, in the dark, a shotgun loaded with #1 buckshot is devastating. #1 is better than 00 shot as it is slightly smaller so you get more shot in the round. :D

But, if you are going to have a pistol for self defense in the nightstand, you should always have it in condition 1, 24-7, ie: cocked and locked.

[Firebird]

In a fight between a Colt .45 and a 12 gauge pump shotgun, I think I will go with the shotgun, oh something like, I don't know, maybe 100 out of 100 times. Are you friggin' kidding me? A Colt .45, I think even the Army quit using those because they found they had no stopping power. During W.W.II, the Japanese would get sakied up and do a Banzai attack on the American forces. That dinky little .45 just didn't have the power to put the attackers down.

Well, of course a 12 gauge loaded with buckshot is going to out perform a pistol for personal protection in dark, small spaces. No question.

But the .45 ACP round is a fantastic pistol round for personal protecticon. Maybe only a .357 magnum would have better stopping power. (I'm not going To the contrary of what you are saying, it's my understanding that most military personnel sought to move heaven and earth to keep their .45s back when we switched to the NATO compatible Beretta 9mm. I know lots of special forces managed to hang on to their .45s for a while.

[Dawg Fan]

I keep a loaded 40 in my nightstand and have an unloaded 12 gauge in the closet. I figure with 13 rounds in the 40 I should hit what I am aiming at.

[cyfallsbooster2]

I keep a loaded 40 in my nightstand and have an unloaded 12 gauge in the closet. I figure with 13 rounds in the 40 I should hit what I am aiming at.

Still the problem with the .40 or any "bulletted" gun is it penetrates walls and can harm others in the house also. The shotgun is much less likely to do this plus it has much more stopping power. For home protection, I still believe the shotgun to be best suited. Out on the street, of course the semi-auto pistols are desired for concealability. However, one must be able to go for the gun, get it out of the holster and be able to place two shots to the opponent's chest cavity within 1.5 seconds. And this only occurs with practice.

I own a 9mm pistol, but will soon be going to the Glock model 22 (.40) for its superior stopping power. Of course the .45 has still more stopping power, but the .40 is adequate and it is easier to find the ammo for it right now.

[pied]

Now don't go taking things out of context. Besides, those little things are not dogs...........they are the devil!

I apologize. When discussing trying to kick dogs, I should have understood that he meant trying to kick dogs.

[JOH]

I apologize. When discussing trying to kick dogs, I should have understood that he meant trying to kick dogs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqejYgs0l7Q&feature=related

[Firebird]

Still the problem with the .40 or any "bulletted" gun is it penetrates walls and can harm others in the house also. The shotgun is much less likely to do this plus it has much more stopping power. For home protection, I still believe the shotgun to be best suited. Out on the street, of course the semi-auto pistols are desired for concealability. However, one must be able to go for the gun, get it out of the holster and be able to place two shots to the opponent's chest cavity within 1.5 seconds. And this only occurs with practice.

I own a 9mm pistol, but will soon be going to the Glock model 22 (.40) for its superior stopping power. Of course the .45 has still more stopping power, but the .40 is adequate and it is easier to find the ammo for it right now.


I have a Glock 9mm. I don't know too many crooks that will want to continue to argue after they have a 9mm round in their chest. This isn't the battlefield. Plus, more control with the 9. It will kill you just as dead.

[pied]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqejYgs0l7Q&feature=related

no youtube at work.
Want to summarize?

[Maroondog]

Still the problem with the .40 or any "bulletted" gun is it penetrates walls and can harm others in the house also. The shotgun is much less likely to do this plus it has much more stopping power. For home protection, I still believe the shotgun to be best suited. Out on the street, of course the semi-auto pistols are desired for concealability. However, one must be able to go for the gun, get it out of the holster and be able to place two shots to the opponent's chest cavity within 1.5 seconds. And this only occurs with practice.

I own a 9mm pistol, but will soon be going to the Glock model 22 (.40) for its superior stopping power. Of course the .45 has still more stopping power, but the .40 is adequate and it is easier to find the ammo for it right now.

Not sure where you come up with 1.5 secs. unless you are confronted with some sort of quick draw situation. But, if you are going to carry on the street, a handgun it is.

The .40 is a good round as well. If your 9mm can handle +P rounds, you can ramp it up pretty easily. Any shooting is going to be about correct shot placement in the long run however. A superficial wound is just that, regardless of the round used.

Good luck with a new purchase though. The way prices have spiked, I have just about stopped doing any purchasing. Have to wait till the frenzy dies down a bit.

[cyfallsbooster2]

Not sure where you come up with 1.5 secs. unless you are confronted with some sort of quick draw situation. But, if you are going to carry on the street, a handgun it is.

The .40 is a good round as well. If your 9mm can handle +P rounds, you can ramp it up pretty easily. Any shooting is going to be about correct shot placement in the long run however. A superficial wound is just that, regardless of the round used.

Good luck with a new purchase though. The way prices have spiked, I have just about stopped doing any purchasing. Have to wait till the frenzy dies down a bit.

The 1.5 secs is assuming someone is there with a gun in your face. I agree totally on the bolded part. Practice, practice, practice.:Music

[b756561]

Does kicking a dog count?

You bet it counts. It's just that I don't consider that damn Chihuahua to be a real dog. It's more of an oversized rat on steroids. Acts like one too.

[b756561]

Now don't go taking things out of context. Besides, those little things are not dogs...........they are the devil!

I see you have or have had a Chihuahua. They are not a real dog. They do not need to be in existance.

[b756561]

Still the problem with the .40 or any "bulletted" gun is it penetrates walls and can harm others in the house also. The shotgun is much less likely to do this plus it has much more stopping power. For home protection, I still believe the shotgun to be best suited. Out on the street, of course the semi-auto pistols are desired for concealability. However, one must be able to go for the gun, get it out of the holster and be able to place two shots to the opponent's chest cavity within 1.5 seconds. And this only occurs with practice.


Walk down the street carrying a loaded 12gauge pump shotgun and you don't have to worry about your opponent even thinking about pulling his gun. :D

[cyfallsbooster2]

I see you have or have had a Chihuahua. They are not a real dog. They do not need to be in existance.

Never have owned one but have been around a few. They are just like shetland ponies though...........devils.:Censor:

[cyfallsbooster2]

Walk down the street carrying a loaded 12gauge pump shotgun and you don't have to worry about your opponent even thinking about pulling his gun. :D

True.

[pied]

You bet it counts. It's just that I don't consider that damn Chihuahua to be a real dog. It's more of an oversized rat on steroids. Acts like one too.

Got it. I've always had a thing against labs.

[cyfallsbooster2]

Got it. I've always had a thing against labs.

medical labs or meth labs?

[pied]

medical labs or meth labs?

neither are very appealing. Same with the slobbery hair shedding dogs.

[cyfallsbooster2]

I have a Glock 9mm. I don't know too many crooks that will want to continue to argue after they have a 9mm round in their chest. This isn't the battlefield. Plus, more control with the 9. It will kill you just as dead.

I am basing my comments on what "experts" have told me. These being range masters and owners of self defense course schools. They all seem to say the caliber to buy is anything with a "40" in it....45, 44, 40. Those have the most stopping power. 2-3 chest shots to stop someone. The 9mm and down they talk about 3-4 chest shots. Anything below a .36 they say fire until empty. But, they will ALL also tell you that ANY gun will do if YOU know how to use it. Take some of those classes and learn and then practice, practice, practice.

[cyfallsbooster2]

neither are very appealing. Same with the slobbery hair shedding dogs.

You are just a real happy person aren't you?





:D

[pied]

You are just a real happy person aren't you?





:D

I smile so much I whistle zipadee doo dah out my ***.

[cyfallsbooster2]

I smile so much I whistle zipadee doo dah out my ***.

Someone sent me an email today of a nude female skydiving. It was not her *** that was whistling but something was.:eek: Hilarious.

[Firebird]

I am basing my comments on what "experts" have told me. These being range masters and owners of self defense course schools. They all seem to say the caliber to buy is anything with a "40" in it....45, 44, 40. Those have the most stopping power. 2-3 chest shots to stop someone. The 9mm and down they talk about 3-4 chest shots. Anything below a .36 they say fire until empty. But, they will ALL also tell you that ANY gun will do if YOU know how to use it. Take some of those classes and learn and then practice, practice, practice.

I guess what I am trying to say is that if you are in a situation where some really bad dude just WANTS to kill you and is going to keep coming and coming until he's dead, I might worry about the caliber. However, your average mugger or thug or burglar that wants to rob you or mess with your girl or settle a disagreement with a knife is not going to be very likely to want to press his point after even one 9mm round in his chest (or anywhere else). In most likely personal protection scenarios I can dream up (realistically), a couple of rounds from my Glock will be more than enough to get him out of my hair. Most PDs carry a 9mm.

[b756561]

I guess what I am trying to say is that if you are in a situation where some really bad dude just WANTS to kill you and is going to keep coming and coming until he's dead, I might worry about the caliber. However, your average mugger or thug or burglar that wants to rob you or mess with your girl or settle a disagreement with a knife is not going to be very likely to want to press his point after even one 9mm round in his chest (or anywhere else). In most likely personal protection scenarios I can dream up (realistically), a couple of rounds from my Glock will be more than enough to get him out of my hair. Most PDs carry a 9mm.

Hey Firebird, haven't you heard? It's not how big it is that counts, it's how you use what you got.
Now I don't know if that truly works in this situation, but that's what a girl once told me. :D

[cyfallsbooster2]

I guess what I am trying to say is that if you are in a situation where some really bad dude just WANTS to kill you and is going to keep coming and coming until he's dead, I might worry about the caliber. However, your average mugger or thug or burglar that wants to rob you or mess with your girl or settle a disagreement with a knife is not going to be very likely to want to press his point after even one 9mm round in his chest (or anywhere else). In most likely personal protection scenarios I can dream up (realistically), a couple of rounds from my Glock will be more than enough to get him out of my hair. Most PDs carry a 9mm.

And I agree with you 100%! I also am talking about the 1% of the bad guys that will keep coming. Even then, it is two to the upper chest cavity....if he keeps coming, one in the cranial-ocular region (eye to eye and nose to forehead). Thus the need for practicing your pointing or site aiming skills constantly. And thus, really ANY caliber will do, or at least .36 and up.

I saw a picture of bullet damage into a substance (I can not remember what they called it, but it is a solid jell the scientists use for simulating the human body) for the 9mm, .357, .40, .44 and .45. All of them reached about 13" penetration. But it was the .357, .40, .44 and .45 that showed the most collateral damage, and those were all pretty equal. The difference was evident in the photo, but if you are asking me, they were all pretty close. The military went to the 9mm several years ago (I believe because of the popularity of the caliber in Europe and if we had a conflict there it would be easier to find ammunition). But the fighting soldiers wanted their .45's back because of the stopping power. Maybe there is a difference or maybe they just need a paradighm shift. I don't know. But, like I said, I own a 9mm, I bought my son the Glock model 22 for his birthday, and I REALLY like it.:D The best thing about the Glock's are the trigger safeties. Best thing for self defense, but you better be careful with it and keep it away from those who should not be handling it (the young and those that are inexperienced).

[JOH]

I guess what I am trying to say is that if you are in a situation where some really bad dude just WANTS to kill you and is going to keep coming and coming until he's dead, I might worry about the caliber. However, your average mugger or thug or burglar that wants to rob you or mess with your girl or settle a disagreement with a knife is not going to be very likely to want to press his point after even one 9mm round in his chest (or anywhere else). In most likely personal protection scenarios I can dream up (realistically), a couple of rounds from my Glock will be more than enough to get him out of my hair. Most PDs carry a 9mm.

Reminds me of a story I heard. Some guy was using .22 HMR's, shot the robber like 5 times, and then was stabbed to death. Guy got away, and probably only needed some band aids.

[b756561]

Reminds me of a story I heard. Some guy was using .22 HMR's, shot the robber like 5 times, and then was stabbed to death. Guy got away, and probably only needed some band aids.

While doing Shore patrol in Hawaii I was assigned to two regular duty police officers. Their standard issue weapon was the .44 Magnum w/Hollow Point bullets. They received a call about a Samoan in the projects who had butchered his wife (and he had done so literally.) When we arrived, I was told to stay in the car (right.... like you know I was going to follow those directions) while one officer went to the front door and the second officer went around back. Sure enough the guy fled out the back door still with the butcher knife in his hand. The guy was huge. Easily 6'6" 300 lbs. When he wouldn't stop, the officer shot him in the chest with his .44. The guy got up and started toward the policeman and he shot him a second time. The Somoan then pulled himself up and, with the knife still in his hand, started toward the policeman again and again the policeman shot. When the guy started to get up again, the policeman didn't wait to shoot him again, he ran. They found the guy the next morning in a drainage ditch. HE HAD NO BACK LEFT. Three .44 magnums in the chest from close range, I can see where he might be missing at least his back. Turned out the guy was sky high on PCP and hadn't felt a thing. Still that was a really big boy to have been able to take that kind of damage and still be able to get back onto his feet.
What would have happened if he had shoot him with one of those little pea shooters?

[Maroondog]

While doing Shore patrol in Hawaii I was assigned to two regular duty police officers. Their standard issue weapon was the .44 Magnum w/Hollow Point bullets. They received a call about a Samoan in the projects who had butchered his wife (and he had done so literally.) When we arrived, I was told to stay in the car (right.... like you know I was going to follow those directions) while one officer went to the front door and the second officer went around back. Sure enough the guy fled out the back door still with the butcher knife in his hand. The guy was huge. Easily 6'6" 300 lbs. When he wouldn't stop, the officer shot him in the chest with his .44. The guy got up and started toward the policeman and he shot him a second time. The Somoan then pulled himself up and, with the knife still in his hand, started toward the policeman again and again the policeman shot. When the guy started to get up again, the policeman didn't wait to shoot him again, he ran. They found the guy the next morning in a drainage ditch. HE HAD NO BACK LEFT. Three .44 magnums in the chest from close range, I can see where he might be missing at least his back. Turned out the guy was sky high on PCP and hadn't felt a thing. Still that was a really big boy to have been able to take that kind of damage and still be able to get back onto his feet.
What would have happened if he had shoot him with one of those little pea shooters?

No question a 9MM is not the equivalent of the larger rounds. A big man on PCP is about the worst case scenario I can think of.
Still, a 9MM is not all that bad.

I was once debating a guy about this very subject when he informed me that a 9MM was simply a .45 set on stun.
I said OK then, let me shoot your arse with my 9MM and we will see. His sheepish grin and refusal testified to the fact he wasn't all that confident in his statement.

[cyfallsbooster2]

No question a 9MM is not the equivalent of the larger rounds. A big man on PCP is about the worst case scenario I can think of.
Still, a 9MM is not all that bad.

I was once debating a guy about this very subject when he informed me that a 9MM was simply a .45 set on stun.
I said OK then, let me shoot your arse with my 9MM and we will see. His sheepish grin and refusal testified to the fact he wasn't all that confident in his statement.

yes the 9's are good. Not as good as the guns with a "40" in them, but still good.;)

[Bass]

In a fight between a Colt .45 and a 12 gauge pump shotgun, I think I will go with the shotgun, oh something like, I don't know, maybe 100 out of 100 times. Are you friggin' kidding me? A Colt .45, I think even the Army quit using those because they found they had no stopping power. During W.W.II, the Japanese would get sakied up and do a Banzai attack on the American forces. That dinky little .45 just didn't have the power to put the attackers down.

I'm not arguing for a .45 over a 12 gauge in home defense. I was talking about how one's a little more covert than the other and slightly safer (in the loosest sense of the word) chambered in the wrong hands.

Please don't say a .45 has no stopping power. Unless someone's hopped up on PCP, a .45's gonna stop them dead in their tracks.

There are even current SOCOM efforts to revert to 1911-style handguns in favor of their stopping power over the current standard issue M9. The Coast Guard no longer uses the M9. They've transitioned to a Sig Sauer 226 .40.

[twcpfan1]

The girl makes one good point. Not sure if it's actually the point she was trying to get across. The AK-47 is a terrible choice for a home defense weapon. Too much risk of collateral damage. A 12 guage is the ideal choice. If you have to go with a handgun, go with a .40 caliber with hollow point rounds.

[hoo2ers]

yes the 9's are good. Not as good as the guns with a "40" in them, but still good.;)
I carry a 9mm in my truck and when away from home. Adequate for that purpose. For use at home I keep a Calico 900 and a Calico 950 with a 50 rd canister and a 100 rd canister. I keep 3 readied canisters each ready and can be interchanged in a matter of seconds if the other is emptied. Next to them I keep a readied 12g for a just in case need. These all provide home punching power should the need ever arise. For stopping power, my wife and I both keep a little S&W .50 cal holstered in the frame on each side of the bed. I feel very secure in the fact that these will provide "adequate stopping power for any unauthorized visitors". Costs have risen since I purchased my pair, but it sure gives you confidence that you have quick, absolute stopping/dropping power for whatever or whomever should gain unauthorized access to your home.. Extremely expensive for shells, but a very smooth,very balanced handgun with unmatched power.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/outdoors/sports/1277336.html

http://shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/monster_1103/index1.html

[twcpfan1]

I'm not arguing for a .45 over a 12 gauge in home defense. I was talking about how one's a little more covert than the other and slightly safer (in the loosest sense of the word) chambered in the wrong hands.

Please don't say a .45 has no stopping power. Unless someone's hopped up on PCP, a .45's gonna stop them dead in their tracks.

There are even current SOCOM efforts to revert to 1911-style handguns in favor of their stopping power over the current standard issue M9. The Coast Guard no longer uses the M9. They've transitioned to a Sig Sauer 226 .40.

I've bought and traded lots of handguns, rifles and shotguns, but my Sig 226 9mm and my H&K USP 40 compact are 2 handguns I could never part with.

[b756561]

I'm not arguing for a .45 over a 12 gauge in home defense. I was talking about how one's a little more covert than the other and slightly safer (in the loosest sense of the word) chambered in the wrong hands.

Please don't say a .45 has no stopping power. Unless someone's hopped up on PCP, a .45's gonna stop them dead in their tracks.

There are even current SOCOM efforts to revert to 1911-style handguns in favor of their stopping power over the current standard issue M9. The Coast Guard no longer uses the M9. They've transitioned to a Sig Sauer 226 .40.

Bass I have no personal knowledge of the stopping power, or the lack thereof, of the .45. I'm a WWII history buff who spends a good portion of my free time reading lit. concerning that war. Toward the end of the war, the officers fighting the Japanese complained long and hard that the .45 was not effective in stopping the Japanese who were attempting Banzai charges. Now many of these Japanese officers and men would drink as much Saki as they could just before charging into the American guns. Personally I think it would have taken a lot more than Saki to get ME to do that. Still the Saki could have made a difference in the Japanese ability to take a wound and keep on charging. Either way, the .45 all too often did not put them down and the people using the .45 obviously were not too happy about that. This is where I get my statement. I have to assume that someone breaking into my house at 2 a.m. is strung out on drugs. If that is the case, and do I dare take the risk that this isn't the case, then I want something that I know has the power to put the bad guy down the first time I shoot? I may not have the chance for a second shot.
I do know there was a lot of pressure put on the military to upgrade from the .45 to something else. It is merely an assumption on my part that this pressure was put there because of the complaints regarding the effectiveness of the .45.