The Jesuit schools, 2 years into the UIL

[JCP1984]

Just curious as to what most people think about the two Jesuit private schools in the UIL. It has been two seasons now in football. Strake Jesuit missed the playoffs in 2004 and made the playoffs this season. Dallas Jesuit made the playoffs in 2004 and did not make them in 2005. And, I have not heard much complaining from schools in or out of their respective districts. This is surprising, since so many thought the world would end when the UIL let in two private schools.

From what I have heard, both schools are happy to be a part of the UIL and both are trying hard to follow each and every UIL rule. And, I was impressed by two things: Dallas Jesuit alums, football parents, and friends of alums raised over $40,000 for a paralyzed football from RL Turner (Matt Little, I think). And, they tried very hard to keep this quiet, so the focus could be on the player and not the school community. And, Strake Jesuit made the playoff this year even after their head coach suffered a heart attack early on. That is a tribute to their coaches and kids.

I'm wondering if any of those very anti-Jesuit, anti-private vocal fans have changed their opinion. I graduated from Jesuit, so what these schools are doing and how they are doing it does not surprise me. I still doubt either one will ever win a UIL 5A state title in football, but I admire what they stand for and what they try to do in all areas.

[htownfootball]

Strake Jesuit has done good things in the UIL and the Crusaders, I am sure, are happy to be a part of 19-5A.
The football team shocked some doubters in 2004 when they beat the spread against Katy, took Alief Taylor to overtime, barely lost to Katy Taylor and Mayde Creek and then beat Hastings on the ground and upset Cinco Ranch.
In 2005, I believe that Strake's football team caught the attention of the whole state. Losing only 1 game in district after dodging the Katy game (I still believe they should've played it), the Crusaders took on Houston's most potent offense and previously undefeated FB Marshall and pulled off the greatest upset in school history. They then took their game to Cy-Falls, who would later on challenge state bound Katy to the wire at Rice Stadium, at Rhodes in a game that was almost won twice. Once with Tyree stretching his 6'5 frame to the goal line, but was short inches. Then after an interception by clutch linebacker Scott Coffman, Jesuit almost did it again. This time it was with Tyree again. The ball was dropped though and the perfect season had died but the story book season's spirit hadn't. It was a good season and I believe that it showed a lot of people good things about Strake's football program.
Going into the UIL, Strake had been a dominant team going 10-0, 9-1, 8-3 and 9-2 in 4 years of independent play beating surrounding 3A powers and 4A teams as well as area private schools. Nobody had thought they could do anything against 19-5A due to the strong tradition in the district regarding football, basketball, baseball and soccer. The first year, the basketball team struggled but lead by, you guessed it, Tyree as a sophomore, they upset Alief Taylor, Katy Taylor and Hastings. As a junior, Tyree and the Crusaders beat those teams except for Hastings plus Mayde Creek with a 3 at the buzzer. In soccer, the Crusaders made the playoffs in 2005 and dominated. They went 4 rounds deep ending their season with a Lee defeat at Deer Park. 1 game earlier the Crusaders had beaten 1-loss only Katy in double overtime in a game where both communities sat a little too compfortably on one side of bleachers. In baseball, the Crusaders barely missed the playoffs their first year losing to Katy Taylor in a tie-breaking game for a playoff spot. Then the next year, after upsetting Katy Taylor early in the season, the Crusaders barely missed out on the playoffs again.
It's been very beneficial for Strake to be in the UIL. I hope when the schools are realligned that Strake stays in 19-5A. The competitivness ups the game of the Crusaders and I don't think any other district can do that as well. The future looks bright for Jesuit in athletics and it should make for a great competitive atmosphere for years to come.

[dragonsdaddy]

the fears of private schools in the uil will take more than 2 years to materialize. i was never as worried about the jesuits as much as some private formed expressly for the athletics. the uil lowering the bar for making the po's can keep the privates happy for a while, until some school leader decides to shoot for the moon. it's coming.

[JagDad07]

The two Jesuit schools are not going to become Evangel's because the Jesuit Order has a lot more important things to do than create football dynasties.

[cyfallsbooster]

It's been very beneficial for Strake to be in the UIL. .
I must have been busier than I thought 2 years ago, because I must admit that I was surprised this year to learn the private schools were allowed into the UIL.
I have taken a very small part of htown's post as you can see. It is something I beleive I can agree with. It apparently HAS been good for SJ. htown's signature also goes along with my opinion of the matter.
when sj/falls played, i did research to learn more about the upcoming game. i was surprised to see sj had somewhere around 11 sophmores classified as starters or significant playtime. 2 years into UIL and an inordinate number of sophmores not just on varsity but significant playtime. there has to be some correlation.
as you may suspect, i am opposed to privates in the UIL. they have too much of an advantage in the "drawing" power aspect of high school ball.

[Redneckn]

The two Jesuit schools are not going to become Evangel's because the Jesuit Order has a lot more important things to do than create football dynasties.

Also there's the fact that Public schools here in Texas have money. In Louisiana, they dont. But privates there do.

Know your facts before you start blowing.

[JCP1984]

Dragonsdaddy,

Although I believe there are private schools that recruit and "shoot for the moon," I don't think that is a fear of just private schools. There are many hs school football coaches and fans that believe public schools (yes, even the great SL Carroll) don't always follow the rules. I truly believe Dallas Jesuit follows the UIL rules equal or better than any UIL school, and I hope the same is true for Strake Jesuit in Houston. I have friends who tell me stories about SL Carroll, and some of these folks get their info from area UIL coaches. I believe that unless you know something is fact then you keep your mouth shut, but it bothers me when someone thinks private schools will or do cheat, while public schools don't. I hope teams that win and do well do so because they have great coaches and great kids and have built wonderful programs. I also hope that the two Jesuit schools continue to do things right and, if they fortunate enough to win, great. I also know Dallas Jesuit coaches in all sports love being in the UIL, and I would hope they would never do anything to ruin the "marriage."

[Redneckn]

Every venue I've ever spoke with people on, there has been bad blood between public and privates. I don't see this changing anytime soon.

Lots of finger pointing and baseless accusations seem to get started with these discussions...

[Miss Kitty]

:mad:

[dragonsdaddy]

Dragonsdaddy,

Although I believe there are private schools that recruit and "shoot for the moon," I don't think that is a fear of just private schools. There are many hs school football coaches and fans that believe public schools (yes, even the great SL Carroll) don't always follow the rules. I truly believe Dallas Jesuit follows the UIL rules equal or better than any UIL school, and I hope the same is true for Strake Jesuit in Houston. I have friends who tell me stories about SL Carroll, and some of these folks get their info from area UIL coaches. I believe that unless you know something is fact then you keep your mouth shut, but it bothers me when someone thinks private schools will or do cheat, while public schools don't. I hope teams that win and do well do so because they have great coaches and great kids and have built wonderful programs. I also hope that the two Jesuit schools continue to do things right and, if they fortunate enough to win, great. I also know Dallas Jesuit coaches in all sports love being in the UIL, and I would hope they would never do anything to ruin the "marriage."i tell you what jcp, when you "know" something other than what some goombah ignoramus without a name tells you, speak up. give something besides innuendo and baseless lies. i never accused jesprep of anything, but am expecting some school along the lines of arlington grace prep to come along and push the envelop. some rich "sugardaddy" could easily fund it, and recruit the best 8th and 9th graders in dallas cty and the uil could only wring their hands and wonder what went wrong. you can be as high and mighty as you choose to be, and i hope both jesuits are worthy, but you are still the interlopers and are only in this discussion because "your" lawyers forced the issue and the uil blinked.

[whyzat]

I don't agree that interlopers is a good choice of terms. Those who send their children to private schools continue to provide financial support for the public schools as well. Is it reasonable to deny them access to whatever components of the public school system that will compliment or enrich their child's educational experience, be it U.I.L. competition, special facilities, or selected classes? Homeschoolers should enjoy the same options for the same reason. Given the universal structure of public school funding, presenting their offerings as an all or nothing choice is a difficult case to make from the standpoint of equity.

[gldneagles]

Dragonsdaddy,

Although I believe there are private schools that recruit and "shoot for the moon," I don't think that is a fear of just private schools. There are many hs school football coaches and fans that believe public schools (yes, even the great SL Carroll) don't always follow the rules. I truly believe Dallas Jesuit follows the UIL rules equal or better than any UIL school, and I hope the same is true for Strake Jesuit in Houston. I have friends who tell me stories about SL Carroll, and some of these folks get their info from area UIL coaches. I believe that unless you know something is fact then you keep your mouth shut, but it bothers me when someone thinks private schools will or do cheat, while public schools don't. I hope teams that win and do well do so because they have great coaches and great kids and have built wonderful programs. I also hope that the two Jesuit schools continue to do things right and, if they fortunate enough to win, great. I also know Dallas Jesuit coaches in all sports love being in the UIL, and I would hope they would never do anything to ruin the "marriage."
jcp1984........i agree with your comment completely as far as the privates probably will not do anything more than the publics do to achieve success. the problem i have is that the privates have an unfair advantage in that respect because they are not tied to attendance boundries. therefore, they can "draw" from the entire city for thier players. to me, this is the important aspect of the situation. certainly, successful public programs "draw" players. katy is a very successful program and i am sure that they "draw" players because of that. if a parent wants thier son to play for a recognized program, like katy, they will move from where they are to where they want to attend in order to make it happen. having to pick-up and move and the money it takes to do that is what keeps this in check somewhat. the majority of families can not afford to do this. the same could be said about the tuition costs for the privates. but since there are so few privates in comparison to the publics, there are enough well-off families in cities to be able to stock a private's program. since the privates are allowed into the uil, i would suspect their attendance numbers will be increasing, especially as the talent pool in the school is enhanced and they begin to realize success. it is not a fair situation for the publics.

[dragonsfan]

If you don't think dragonsdaddy is correct about a future private school in the UIL recruiting like crazy, you don't know much about human nature.

[htownfootball]

What is with all this whining again? Is it August 05 or have we already gone through this?? Strake and Dallas Jesuit are here to stay so get over it. Dallas Jesuit had a great season in all sports last year and this year Strake Jesuit ran the table and went 1 loss only into the playoffs in football. Katy fans and Strake fans seemed, for a moment, to get a long in success. The recruiting accussations are pointless from simple fans and fathers or mothers of players since they do not know nearly enough to prove anything. So why even bother? I can make speculation of several 5A public schools in Houston over there recruiting of high profile basketball and baseball players due to magnet programs but I won't or neither will most people because they are not private. What about the recent state champions Kingwood HS in basketball lead by Arizona bound Nic Wise. He is a senior this year and this is the first year he has been at the same high school two years in a row. Cinco Ranch as a freshman (varsity all 4 years of course), Hightower as a sophomore and Kingwood junior and senior year. This is a prime example of the transportation of athletes throughout the system for the benefit of several high rollers on the other end whether it be a father or an AAU coach who knows? Because I can name many other examples that include both private and public schools.
Katy and SWAT (south west alief texas for all you outsiders), see you'll in August if they don't move us to play the guys in Spring Branch because I am looking forward to another season in 19-5A.

[Texas Bob]

I'm wondering if any of those very anti-private vocal fans have changed their opinion.
No:p

[lonny23]

I'm not down with the privates in the UIL. Those guys are and will keep recruiting. They have no intention to stay satisfied with JUST making the playoffs.

[Redneckn]

I'm not down with the privates in the UIL. Those guys are and will keep recruiting. They have no intention to stay satisfied with JUST making the playoffs.


But if they're all playing by the same rules it's ok? If the privates have a designated, and fair, area they can gets kids from it's ok?
As far as scholorships go, I can't see where anyone would have a problem with that... Kids go to public schools for "free" every day.

[SLC13]

.......I'm wondering if any of those very anti-Jesuit, anti-private vocal fans have changed their opinion......

No......We moved to Texas a few years ago after spending nearly 25 years in Ohio. Anyone that wants to view the future of Texas HS football with public and private schools competing just needs to look at Ohio where this has gone on for years.

[farmerfan]

I think I can voice a opinion with some credibility on this issue. I attended private school my whole life. I know first hand what goes on inside th private schools. If schools outside of Dallas Jesuit and Strake are allowed admittance into the UIL then there will be hell to pay. My alma matter just lost to a school in the state championship game that had over 10 new transfers come to school this year. That school has already been mentioned in this thread, Arlington Grace Prep, who has already been in trouble for recruting scandles this decade. Also look at Midland Christian, they are getting transfer students in from Midland High, Midland Lee, Midland Greenwodd, Odessa High and others. They have become a powerhouse in TAPPS. When I played I can honestly say it was kids who I played against in junior high playing in high school, at times a transfer would come to Dallas Christian or Ft Worth Christian but mainly it was kids who had been there a long time playing on the varsity teams. Within the past few years in TAPPS this has not become the case. Take TAPPS 4A for example which has become division 2, when I played, Houston Second Baptist, Dallas First Baptist, Dallas Christian, Austin Hyde Park, Ft Worth Christian and my school Denton Liberty were the powerhouse programs. Since I graduated in 2000, only 2 programs have won state in that division, Midland Christian 3x and Arlington Grace Prep 3x. To me that says something corrupt is going on.

[drgnbkr]

As Ddaddy said, the UIL caved to the private school lawyers. Everyone can see the possible, if not probable, end result of their lack of intestinal fortitude....

[Drake]

As Ddaddy said, the UIL caved to the private school lawyers. Everyone can see the possible, if not probable, end result of their lack of intestinal fortitude....While you’re so worried about the private's recruiting, the Blake Cantu's (SLC's new stud wide receiver from a neighboring school) of the world keep transferring to SLC... Don't you think someone there should have the intestinal fortitude to look into how that keeps happening?

[drgnbkr]

While you’re so worried about the private's recruiting, the Blake Cantu's (SLC's new stud wide receiver from a neighboring school) of the world keep transferring to SLC... Don't you think someone there should have the intestinal fortitude to look into how that keeps happening?

Moving to Southlake is a good thing..you should come take a look!

[CCHS77]

Don't you think someone there should have the intestinal fortitude to look into how that keeps happening?


What's your theory?

Scholarship?

[dragonsdaddy]

While you’re so worried about the private's recruiting, the Blake Cantu's (SLC's new stud wide receiver from a neighboring school) of the world keep transferring to SLC... Don't you think someone there should have the intestinal fortitude to look into how that keeps happening?
if there is anything untoward, it'll come out. some people want to give their kids every opportunity to succeed. sl isn't the worst place to live btw.

[The Lone Ranger]

Anyone who thinks that the Jesuit schools recruit needs to visit the campuses and get an up-close look at these "Star athletes" that we're stealing from public schools.

It'll take you a long time to find them, because there aren't any here! Our football team won't have any DI scholarship winners this year. Our basketball team has one that I know of. He's going to Penn.

We have commitments in country club sports, but that's about it.

Also, 80% of our athletes come out of the Diocesan school system. These kids have parents, uncles, brothers, and cousins that have gone to Jesuit. Jesuit is a family tradition for a lot of our students.

Also, we don't give athletic scholarships. Our school forwards all aid requests to a large financial aid clearinghouse who also handles the aid for other schools. This clearinghouse decides how much money, if any, the student is qualified for. Our school then pays out of the scholarship fund. However, athletic skill is NOT one of the factors in awarding aid.

I can honestly say that I don't believe that ANY of our coaches recruit. If anyone has any information to the contrary, I urge you to contact Rev. Phil Postell, SJ, our President, and the UIL. We follow the rules of the UIL, and if anyone feels that we don't, and has actual evidence, then they should go to the authorities. If anyone at Jesuit is cheating, then they need to leave our community. We WANT to follow the rules. If any coach feels that winning is more important, then they need to be found and removed from their position.

[dragonfootballfan]

I am not afraid that of what the Jesuits can do to Texas high school football. It is the Arlington Grace Preps of the world that I fear will at some point enter the UIL.

[htownfootball]

I am not afraid that of what the Jesuits can do to Texas high school football. It is the Arlington Grace Preps of the world that I fear will at some point enter the UIL.

You said it bro. Great quote.

[gldneagles]

You said it bro. Great quote.
does this mean only certain privates should be allowed? hmmmmmmm.
i am sure the jesuits have not started "recruiting", yet. i refer to it as "drawing". i think that is a more accurate depiction of what goes on. as a program realizes more success, their "drawing" power increases. point being slc and katy. yes, parents will pick up and move so their kid can play for these programs. that is difficult to do. now they can send their kid to a private to compete in the uil and they do not have to move! great situation! yes, it costs money to do that too, but, there are scholarships available for "students" who can not afford the tuition. yes, the privates have been WAY above board for the first 2 years. who wouldn't in such a "thin ice" situation? but, still, for strake, 11 sophs with starting spots or significant play time just 2 years into the uil!!!! tell me drake is not "drawing" just because they were allowed into the uil! did katy get 11 sophmore transfers 2 years ago who started this year? did slc? it is an unfair advantage for the privates and it should never have been allowed. and any success they ever realize will be tainted.

[Drake]

does this mean only certain privates should be allowed? hmmmmmmm.
i am sure the jesuits have not started "recruiting", yet. i refer to it as "drawing". i think that is a more accurate depiction of what goes on. as a program realizes more success, their "drawing" power increases. point being slc and katy. yes, parents will pick up and move so their kid can play for these programs. that is difficult to do. now they can send their kid to a private to compete in the uil and they do not have to move! great situation! yes, it costs money to do that too, but, there are scholarships available for "students" who can not afford the tuition. yes, the privates have been WAY above board for the first 2 years. who wouldn't in such a "thin ice" situation? but, still, for strake, 11 sophs with starting spots or significant play time just 2 years into the uil!!!! tell me drake is not "drawing" just because they were allowed into the uil! did katy get 11 sophmore transfers 2 years ago who started this year? did slc? it is an unfair advantage for the privates and it should never have been allowed. and any success they ever realize will be tainted.You're not using much "real world" thought here... While you're right that SJ doesn't have an official attendance zone, where do you think their kids come from? You think they're commuting EVERYDAY from the Woodlands, or Austin, or Beaumont? No, they're not. Most live within 30 minutes or less of the campus and attended nearby private schools previously. Does their inclusion into UIL enhance the product the school is offering? Sure it does. I'm sure there are accomplished athletes at the school that may have opted for public school if UIL wasn't available, but academics is the primary reason they are there.

Just curious... SJ has more or less an 870 cap on enrollment. They have far more applications each year than they accept. With some students receiving financial aid already, does it make sense to you to take more paying spots away from the school to fill up a football roster with athletic scholarships? Do you think they NEED to win UIL championships to keep kids coming?

You yourself said you had to CHOOSE between sending you athletic son to a private school for a better education OR a public school for UIL participation because it was far superior than what the privates could offer? WHY should you have to choose between two things that were both the best for your son?

[gldneagles]

I'm sure there are accomplished athletes at the school that may have opted for public school if UIL wasn't available, but academics is the primary reason they are there.
I doubt the athletes are there for the "education".

Do you think they NEED to win UIL championships to keep kids coming?
to grow your numbers, yes. that is what every private is concerned with. more income for the expense means a profit.

You yourself said you had to CHOOSE between sending you athletic son to a private school for a better education OR a public school for UIL participation because it was far superior than what the privates could offer? WHY should you have to choose between two things that were both the best for your son?
i never said i had to decide between the private and public for a better education, did i? i said it was for sports. like on the other thread, my son is on the dean's list at a&m in human med with a public school education. not bad, eh? and did not cost me any extra. the kids have it or they don't. if they do not have it, a private school is not going to change that.

[bullrock]

Let's bring this subject up in 4 years. I predict the onslaught will have taken hold by then. I can almost guarantee the privates will be the cream of the crop in Texas High school football. Precedence has been set. Any private school can now petition, and win, a spot in the UIL. The UIL has sold out the publics and will force Joe Football to go private if he wants to get to the next level. The Katy's, Judsons, Lufkins, North Shores of Texas will be history. Notice I didn't include SLC? They have their own little thing going and it won't be broken for some time. This is not a knock on any of the privates. The "Golden Rule" will always prevail in our society because that's what it was founded on. Keep all of your newspaper clippings because your grandchildren will never believe a public could have competed for elite status in the great state of Texas.

[Drake]

Eagles - If youre going to quote me it would be nice if you either didn't change my quote or did something to highlight what I said and your response... thanks.

[Drake]

Let's bring this subject up in 4 years. I predict the onslaught will have taken hold by then. I can almost guarantee the privates will be the cream of the crop in Texas High school football. Precedence has been set. Any private school can now petition, and win, a spot in the UIL. The UIL has sold out the publics and will force Joe Football to go private if he wants to get to the next level. The Katy's, Judsons, Lufkins, North Shores of Texas will be history. Notice I didn't include SLC? They have their own little thing going and it won't be broken for some time. This is not a knock on any of the privates. The "Golden Rule" will always prevail in our society because that's what it was founded on. Keep all of your newspaper clippings because your grandchildren will never believe a public could have competed for elite status in the great state of Texas.Bull... Don't you see the hypocrisy in your statement? You are complaining of an advantage you think certain schools might have in the future and using the schools that have the advantages now as examples those that will suffer...

[dragonsdaddy]

Bull... Don't you see the hypocrisy in your statement? You are complaining of an advantage you think certain schools might have in the future and using the schools that have the advantages now as examples those that will suffer...
please reiterate the advantages the uil has provided the above noted schools. do any of them give scholarships to players from outside their district? do any of them have an unlimited district size? i'm with bull on this.

[cyfallsbooster]

Eagles - If youre going to quote me it would be nice if you either didn't change my quote or did something to highlight what I said and your response... thanks.
I apologize, drake. I was not sure how to insert a comment into the middle of a quote. I will try to learn that and will not make the mistake again. I understand your concern because reading my post makes it appear you said something which you did not.

[Fleeman93]

I am just glad that folks outside of 19-5A are starting to talk about this (didn't hear many people talking about Dallas Jesuit when the Strake talk was going on during the season). I have no doubt that the two private schools that are in UIL right now are all good, clean and legal. As someone said in an earlier post, it will only be a matter of time before human nature takes over and the privates start to take advantage of their advantages. My first problem with the system is that the coaches or schools don't have to recruit at all. What I see happening is that wealthy supports of the schools will do the recruiting. My second problem is with the private schools that aren't a part of UIL yet. Who knows how many or how soon these schools will dip their feet in the waters of UIL. UIL has opened a can of worms and I hope they have a means to keep the worms under control.

[Drake]

please reiterate the advantages the uil has provided the above noted schools. do any of them give scholarships to players from outside their district? do any of them have an unlimited district size? i'm with bull on this.No, they do not have those advantages.

Bull said, "The Katy's, Judsons, Lufkins, North Shores of Texas will be history". This statement is very telling about the current situation and phobia that has gripped many supporters of the programs that dominate Texas High School football now. They will be "history" in what sense? Not dominating football anymore? Losing good players to the privates? Not getting the transfers from the lesser programs? All the things they enjoy now. Don't you see that these programs ALREADY enjoy the advantages you're so worried the privates might have down the road. It just strikes me as hypocritical.

Scholarships or not, right now schools like the ones Bull mentions have good players move into their zones to play football and/or whatever else might attract them to that school. That means they LEFT a school that didn't have all the football advantages the dominate schools have. Right? How is that any more justified than your school losing a player to the privates? The end result is the same, does the means really make one more fair than the other?

[Drake]

I apologize, drake. I was not sure how to insert a comment into the middle of a quote. I will try to learn that and will not make the mistake again. I understand your concern because reading my post makes it appear you said something which you did not.No prob - thanks. :)

[dragonsdaddy]

No, they do not have those advantages.

Bull said, "The Katy's, Judsons, Lufkins, North Shores of Texas will be history". This statement is very telling about the current situation and phobia that has gripped many supporters of the programs that dominate Texas High School football now. They will be "history" in what sense? Not dominating football anymore? Losing good players to the privates? Not getting the transfers from the lesser programs? All the things they enjoy now. Don't you see that these programs ALREADY enjoy the advantages you're so worried the privates might have down the road. It just strikes me as hypocritical.

Scholarships or not, right now schools like the ones Bull mentions have good players move into their zones to play football and/or whatever else might attract them to that school. That means they LEFT a school that didn't have all the football advantages the dominate schools have. Right? How is that any more justified than your school losing a player to the privates? The end result is the same, does the means really make one more fair than the other?
you are quick to paint transfers with a broad brush. every transfer is for one reason or another. when a family decides to move, they take many factors into consideration- cost of living, school district strengths/weaknesses, ethnicity, location. when my family decided to move to the metromess 9 years ago, all these things were evaluated, and sl was our choice. we were "recruited" by having more positives than negatives. several families i know did the same thing. people every day make decisions that are best for them. are any of them "recruited" by coaches or boosters?

i don't doubt it in the least, but these situations are against the rules and carry risks of sanctions, unless they are done by privates. i suspect the jesuits are not guilty of such nefarious behavior, but the next private may not be so upstanding.

[Drake]

I am just glad that folks outside of 19-5A are starting to talk about this (didn't hear many people talking about Dallas Jesuit when the Strake talk was going on during the season). I have no doubt that the two private schools that are in UIL right now are all good, clean and legal. As someone said in an earlier post, it will only be a matter of time before human nature takes over and the privates start to take advantage of their advantages. My first problem with the system is that the coaches or schools don't have to recruit at all. What I see happening is that wealthy supports of the schools will do the recruiting. My second problem is with the private schools that aren't a part of UIL yet. Who knows how many or how soon these schools will dip their feet in the waters of UIL. UIL has opened a can of worms and I hope they have a means to keep the worms under control.Fleeman - Haven't seen you around in awhile, glad to see you back...

The UIL didn't open a can of worms though; they just realized their authority in this was on shaky ground. They also realize that the authority to make transferring players ineligible is certainly questionable as well. Consequently, if a stud player moves to Katy for example, all that the UIL requires for eligibility is for the parents of that child and coaches sign off that it wasn't for athletic purposes, which as you know, would be against UIL rules. So for all practical purposes, the current system is no more than coaches and parents policing themselves… in other words, an honor system.

It seems to me that before anyone accuses the Jesuit schools of being POTENTIALLY dishonorable, they should be absolutely certain that the school(s) they support have NEVER had a player transfer in for athletic purposes even though his parents and their coaches swore otherwise…

[Drake]

Dragonsdaddy - Are telling the board that you believe that SLC has NEVER had a student transfer to SLC for athletic purposes?

[dragonsdaddy]

Dragonsdaddy - Are telling the board that you believe that SLC has NEVER had a student transfer to SLC for athletic purposes?
i don't remember saying that, but that's not the point anyway. recruitment is the issue.

[Fleeman93]

A family transferring into a school zone is not against any UIL rule. A coach going out and asking a family to move into their school zone would be illegal. If a family wants their son or daughter to play a sport at a particular school and they are willing to suffer the costs of moving their family into that school's zone then their isn't much the UIL can do about it. It is my understanding that if it is ruled that the player did move for the sole purpose of athletics then they must sit out a year (I may be wrong but I do think that is the rule). There are checks and balances on the current system and it has worked well for many years. I am just saying that by allowing privates into the system with different rules you are giving them the means to take advantage of the system. As I have said, I don't think either Strake school has done so at this time, but that doesn't mean that they won't as the pressures of Texas High School Football starts to squeeze them.

[Drake]

Flee - you're right, I should have said ineligible "for a year"

I disagree that the Jesuits will ever feel the pressure to win on the level that the powerhouses in Texas now do. UIL participation enhances the offering by the school. SJ needs UIL inclusion to keep some of the athletic kids they would otherwise lose, but they don't need championships to keep them.

[Fleeman93]

They will!

[gburgtiger]

It seems to me that before anyone accuses the Jesuit schools of being POTENTIALLY dishonorable, they should be absolutely certain that the school(s) they support have NEVER had a player transfer in for athletic purposes even though his parents and their coaches swore otherwise…


BUT...If a player wants to transfer from Houston Davis to Katy they would have to move to katy. If a player wanted to transfer from Houston Davis to Strake Jesuit they would just have to come up with tuition (scholarship?) and they could commute...no new home needed. The only sacrafice made in transfering to SJ would be the commute to school. So for a family to move for athletic purposes would be a lot less likely than to transfer to the school where you just have to drive a little further and not have to move.

[The Lone Ranger]

However, if the student wanted to transfer to Strake, they'd have to wait until the beginning of the school year, have excellent grades (transfers basically have to have A averages at Dallas Jesuit, and we don't take many--7 sophomore year (I believe that almost all of them transfered from other private schools), and a couple junior year. It's school policy not to except seniors who aren't coming from Jesuit schools), and be able to pay $10k tuition. Even with financial aid, most students still end up having to pay at least $1000 through parental contributions and work study.

You can't just pack up and go to a Jesuit school. You have to be qualified, and motivated.

I doubt very many students coming out of Houston Davis would be able to transfer into Strake. They might get in if they apply freshman year, but I couldn't see them accepting them as transfers.

[Drake]

I think the last two posts show there are built in obstructions to recruiting in public and private schools but that there are also ways around it... Looks to me that in either environment integrity is a key ingredient to prevent recruiting abuses.

I just take exception to those that say the public schools have always had it (integrity) and the Jesuits won't, without any real evidence to support either contention.

[gburgtiger]

However, if the student wanted to transfer to Strake, they'd have to wait until the beginning of the school year, have excellent grades (transfers basically have to have A averages at Dallas Jesuit, and we don't take many--7 sophomore year (I believe that almost all of them transfered from other private schools), and a couple junior year. It's school policy not to except seniors who aren't coming from Jesuit schools), and be able to pay $10k tuition. Even with financial aid, most students still end up having to pay at least $1000 through parental contributions and work study.

You can't just pack up and go to a Jesuit school. You have to be qualified, and motivated.

I doubt very many students coming out of Houston Davis would be able to transfer into Strake. They might get in if they apply freshman year, but I couldn't see them accepting them as transfers.


ALL things being equal...(I know that it would be hard for a Houston Davis student to go to either katy or SJ)Say it is someone who lives inside the loop...the hieghts for example (houston Reagan I believe)...in one of the new beautiful homes but the school is sub-par for what the parents are looking for in athletics and in education but the house is perfect. Katy and SJ would both be good enough in the parent's eyes. What is more likely to happen?
A.) The parents sell their house and move to katy...
B.) The parents send their kid to SJ and don't have to move...
C.) The parents send their kid to houston Reagan

In this situation, the kid is not allowed to attend Katy high without moving out to katy...but, the kid is allowed to attend SJ without moving.

For all things to be equal...Katy and all other public schools should be aloud to take that student without penalty...or private schools should not be aloud to take any student outside of a preset boundry.

[bullrock]

Here's the bottom line folks. You private backers can keep lying to yourselves all you want but the truth will not be hidden in the future. all you have to do is look at the states who "mix" the schools and draw your own conclusions. Don't say the jesuits are above it! Sure, the standards are what they are today (entrance requirements), but I'll bet you anything in the near future they will change with the need to get the athletes they want. Don't try to sell your BS to me. I've witnessed it firsthand in other states, Michigan if you want to know. It's an injustce to the kids who have to play by different rules that their counterparts.

[Drake]

ALL things being equal...(I know that it would be hard for a Houston Davis student to go to either katy or SJ)Say it is someone who lives inside the loop...the hieghts for example (houston Reagan I believe)...in one of the new beautiful homes but the school is sub-par for what the parents are looking for in athletics and in education but the house is perfect. Katy and SJ would both be good enough in the parent's eyes. What is more likely to happen?
A.) The parents sell their house and move to katy...
B.) The parents send their kid to SJ and don't have to move...
C.) The parents send their kid to houston Reagan
You don't give us enough information. Why is Reagan inadequate for the child? If its football program doesn't measure and football is a priority, perhaps they look into Katy. If it's the quality of education at Reagan, perhaps either alternative would be appealing. Do we know if the parents factored in the hassle of selling their house and moving versus the $50K or so it'll cost them to send their child to Strake. Do we assume the child could pass the SJ entrance exam and get accepted?

If an attendance zone solves the problem are you going to make SJ's big enough so they can get the amount of kids they need to thrive as a private school and also be able to field teams in UIL? How big do you think that zone would be?

[bullrock]

Yeah there are schools dominating the high school football scene now. The good thing about that is it runs in cycles. When jesuit powerhouse starts dominating it will be forever because the atmosphere and demographics will always remain constant even though they'll have to change somewhat to get where they want to be.

[gburgtiger]

You don't give us enough information. Why is Reagan inadequate for the child? If its football program doesn't measure and football is a priority, perhaps they look into Katy. If it's the quality of education at Reagan, perhaps either alternative would be appealing. Do we know if the parents factored in the hassle of selling their house and moving versus the $50K or so it'll cost them to send their child to Strake. Do we assume the child could pass the SJ entrance exam and get accepted?

If an attendance zone solves the problem are you going to make SJ's big enough so they can get the amount of kids they need to thrive as a private school and also be able to field teams in UIL? How big do you think that zone would be?

I believe that all things being equal....answers your questions.

the child has the educational requirement to enroll at SJ. if you look at KISD...it is a very adequate school district...they average over 90% in most test catagories and they can't choose who goes to school there. the Average SAT score was 1100 in 2004 and SJ had 1280 something -- SJ gets to choose who gets in and kisd does not. so that being said...education seems to be close.

HISD and specifically Reagan's test scores are on average considerably lower. So one can conclude that the schooling offered at Reagan does not compare to SJ or katy while on the other hand the education offered at a Katy ISD school can be somewhat comprable.

Even with financial aid, most students still end up having to pay at least $1000 through parental contributions and work study.
-- the lone ranger

so the $4K for the student to pay after (scholarships and financial aid) far out weighs the cost of moving.

and the attendance zone -- All things being equal...SJ should have the same size attendance zone as any other school. You shouldn't be rewarded with unlimited attendance zone just because you don't want to take jon smith because he can only make 1000 on the SAT. Public schools don't get the choice.

The talent pool for a public school is a set area....for a private school it's unlimited (athletically) and the limits put on the pool academically are your limits not the UIL's. So if you lowered your standards you could potentially have thousands of students...so it's your own fault if you can't find 22 athletes inside your talent pool.

[Drake]

It's an injustice to the kids who have to play by different rules that their counterparts.Bull... I personally don't necessarily disagree with your predictions about the future of high school football in Texas... What I can't understand is why private's not having attendance zones is a travesty of justice in your eyes but the inequality in athletic facilities, equipment, and opportunities between the school you support and schools like Houston Reagan and Houston Davis are not? Maybe the answer is in the question; because it's the school you support?

[gburgtiger]

Bull... I personally don't necessarily disagree with your predictions about the future of high school football in Texas... What I can't understand is why private's not having attendance zones is a travesty of justice in your eyes but the inequality in athletic facilities, equipment, and opportunities between the school you support and schools like Houston Reagan and Houston Davis are not? Maybe the answer is in the question; because it's the school you support?

Well I think that a team can have wonderful facilities and never compete...and then a team with poor facilities can be a power.

IE Katy Mayde Creek has equal facilities to katy and never competes
and Jack Yates High never had good facilities and in the 90's they were a houston power.

[Drake]

and the attendance zone -- All things being equal...SJ should have the same size attendance zone as any other school. You shouldn't be rewarded with unlimited attendance zone just because you don't want to take jon smith because he can only make 1000 on the SAT. Public schools don't get the choice.Okay. How big is a public school attendance zone? Don't they all vary in geographic size? Don't they vary geographically because the districts want each school in its district to have the optimum amount of kids for their available resources, facilities, and athletic priorities? I'm sure SJ would agree to such a zone. Just make sure the zone encompasses enough geographic area to meet SJ's enrollment needs and athletic goals just like the public school districts do...

[bullrock]

Yeah right strake. Go on into Houston proper and pick any attendance zone you want. Let's see how prim Jr. gets his starting spot and then let's see how your SAT scores fall out. And if you want to talk about facilities...have you ever been to the Judson fieldhouse?? Have you ever seen our facilities and stadium? I'm sure they are better than yours right now, but they won't hold a candle to them in the future.

[gburgtiger]

Also there is no UIL rule that I know of that says you can't buy new equipment if all the other schools don't have it.

This sounds like it's the shoe that does the work not the athlete. Could carl lewis run faster in nikes than he could in addidas...no. Can a QB throw a wilson ball farther than a nike ball...no. Can a jersey color or type dictate how fast a person runs...no. can a 6'3" 220lb WR that never drops a pass who runs the 40 in 4.35 and doesn't live in your attendance zone help your team...absolutely.

[gburgtiger]

Okay. How big is a public school attendance zone? Don't they all vary in geographic size? Don't they vary geographically because the districts want each school in its district to have the optimum amount of kids for their available resources, facilities, and athletic priorities? I'm sure SJ would agree to such a zone. Just make sure the zone encompasses enough geographic area to meet SJ's enrollment needs and athletic goals just like the public school districts do...


well I do know that there isn't a public school in the city of houston that has their pick of anyone who'll make the drive. I'm not talking geographically... you keep bringing up the idea that strake should have unlimited attendance zone because you only get 850 students out of houston...SJ is limiting the # not the attendance zone. your standards are effecting your student population.

[Drake]

well I do know that there isn't a public school in the city of houston that has their pick of anyone who'll make the drive. I'm not talking geographically... you keep bringing up the idea that strake should have unlimited attendance zone because you only get 850 students out of houston...SJ is limiting the # not the attendance zone. your standards are effecting your student population.I see your point, sort of... SJ's facilities, land, faculty, etc limit the number of kids they can accept. The 400 New Orleans kids that came had to go to school at night and on weekends because SJ didn't have the capacity to seat them much less teach them during normal school hours.

[Drake]

Also there is no UIL rule that I know of that says you can't buy new equipment if all the other schools don't have it.

This sounds like it's the shoe that does the work not the athlete. Could carl lewis run faster in nikes than he could in addidas...no. Can a QB throw a wilson ball farther than a nike ball...no. Can a jersey color or type dictate how fast a person runs...no. can a 6'3" 220lb WR that never drops a pass who runs the 40 in 4.35 and doesn't live in your attendance zone help your team...absolutely.gburg - I can tell by your post that you are very intelligent. Why are you posting intellectually dishonest remarks?

[dragonsdaddy]

gburg - I can tell by your post that you are very intelligent. Why are you posting intellectually dishonest remarks?
tell us where the dishonesty lies in his remarks.

[bullrock]

C'mon daddy. Don't question strakes intelligence. He has all the answers. The only way you're going to win is to disappear strake....oh, and take your school with you.

[gburgtiger]

gburg - I can tell by your post that you are very intelligent. Why are you posting intellectually dishonest remarks?


Thank you but please point out my dishonesty?

[Drake]

You know that facilities make a difference. Otherwise, why spend so much money on them? I thought it was intellectually dishonest that you mentioned shoes, football types, and jersey colors, which I agree won't make a player or team better. But you left out state-of-the-art weightrooms, top coaching, more coaches, nice well-kept practice facilities, film capabilities, and other advantages many of the successful programs have that other public programs don't. These advantages not only help improve players and consequently the team, but are also a draw for a family that has a gifted athlete with football potential. You KNOW these things make a difference but omitted them because they didn't align with the point you were trying to make... In other words, you were intellectually dishonest. :)

[gburgtiger]

You know that facilities make a difference. Otherwise, why spend so much money on them? I thought it was intellectually dishonest that you mentioned shoes, football types, and jersey colors, which I agree won't make a player or team better. But you left out state-of-the-art weightrooms, top coaching, more coaches, nice well-kept practice facilities, film capabilities, and other advantages many of the successful programs have that other public programs don't. These advantages not only help improve players and consequently the team, but are also a draw for a family that has a gifted athlete with football potential. You KNOW these things make a difference but omitted them because they didn't align with the point you were trying to make... In other words, you were intellectually dishonest. :)


BUT...several posts before I mentioned that the facilities did not make a team great. I listed katy mayde creek and yates as examples. I don't know exactly where yates plays but I know it's one of the 3 terrible HISD stadiums and they were a power. Katy mayde creek as you know has every thing that katy has and never competes. the money that is made when Katy plays 15 games a year doesn't stay at katy. it is divided up through out KISD and all the facilities are maintained to be as equal between the schools as can be expected. KISD (other than katy) has not been a dominant force in 19-5A much less the state. And you mention coaching...coaching is something the school can actually legally recruit. If you want a good coach...go get one. Davis could go get a great coach recruit the h.ell out of him...it's their choice not to spend the money on a coach.

[dragonsdaddy]

i toured the facilities at justin-nw hs last year and they make slc's look very run-of-the-mill. they are coached by a well thought of man in coach mcangus. they will be lucky next year to make the po's regardless of their district. facilities are on the list, but not very high, in what makes a team successful.

[Drake]

i toured the facilities at justin-nw hs last year and they make slc's look very run-of-the-mill. they are coached by a well thought of man in coach mcangus. they will be lucky next year to make the po's regardless of their district. facilities are on the list, but not very high, in what makes a team successful.Why would you tour their facilities and check into the general consensus about the coach unless those things made a difference to you and your son?

[dragonsdaddy]

Why would you tour their facilities and check into the general consensus about the coach unless those things made a difference to you and your son?
my kids are in college. the nw supe is one of my hs and jr hi coaches. he was justifiably proud of them, and wanted my opinion. what a silly waste of time for him, wanting my opinion and all.

[Amused]

I wonder why a huge percentage of the naysayers about the Jesuits being in the UIL are coming from the Katy and SLC programs?

[Drake]

my kids are in college. the nw supe is one of my hs and jr hi coaches. he was justifiably proud of them, and wanted my opinion. what a silly waste of time for him, wanting my opinion and all.That's cool. No, I could see why he'd want your opinion... Sounds to me like they have some new stuff... If they have a good coach and good facilities it'll only be a matter of time before they have a good team...

[gburgtiger]

I wonder why a huge percentage of the naysayers about the Jesuits being in the UIL are coming from the Katy and SLC programs?


I think it probably just appears that way since most of the off season posters are supporters of Katy and SLC

[KTBandKid]

Just curious as to what most people think about the two Jesuit private schools in the UIL. It has been two seasons now in football. Strake Jesuit missed the playoffs in 2004 and made the playoffs this season. Dallas Jesuit made the playoffs in 2004 and did not make them in 2005. And, I have not heard much complaining from schools in or out of their respective districts. This is surprising, since so many thought the world would end when the UIL let in two private schools.

From what I have heard, both schools are happy to be a part of the UIL and both are trying hard to follow each and every UIL rule. And, I was impressed by two things: Dallas Jesuit alums, football parents, and friends of alums raised over $40,000 for a paralyzed football from RL Turner (Matt Little, I think). And, they tried very hard to keep this quiet, so the focus could be on the player and not the school community. And, Strake Jesuit made the playoff this year even after their head coach suffered a heart attack early on. That is a tribute to their coaches and kids.

I'm wondering if any of those very anti-Jesuit, anti-private vocal fans have changed their opinion. I graduated from Jesuit, so what these schools are doing and how they are doing it does not surprise me. I still doubt either one will ever win a UIL 5A state title in football, but I admire what they stand for and what they try to do in all areas.


the jesuit schools do not have the same UIL rules as we do.

[Miss Kitty]

the jesuit schools do not have the same UIL rules as we do.


I know where you are going with this. I have made this point MANY times. Of course howerver the focus on this board is Football and athletics. And because that is the majority of the media focus, the other areas are being overlooked.

[Drake]

Miss Kitty, you're pretty fair-minded... You think all schools, including private schools, should have geographic attendance zones for UIL purposes that border one another but that do not overlap?

[gburgtiger]

Miss Kitty, you're pretty fair-minded... You think all schools, including private schools, should have geographic attendance zones for UIL purposes that border one another but that do not overlap?


I know this is not directed towards me but...I do, I do. I believe they can overlap...just like the magnet schools and since strake jesuit is inside the HISD attendance zone...I think they should be forced to use it for UIL purposes.

[Drake]

I know this is not directed towards me but...I do, I do. I believe they can overlap...just like the magnet schools and since strake jesuit is inside the HISD attendance zone...I think they should be forced to use it for UIL purposes.Well, if you believe it's okay for it to overlap, don't you also believe it should be broad enough geographically to allow the school to fill its seats AND allow each of its students access to UIL competition?

By the way, how did you conclude it should encompass all of the HISD district zones because its geographically in HISD (is it?)? A student at Lamar can't go to Bellaire.

[Miss Kitty]

IMO - there is no black or white answer here. Yes, in the case of "most" public schools I do think that geographic boundaries is the way to go. That is an advantage you have of attending a private school. You can choose, apply, pay, and get to and from on your own if you want to go. Now, as I said it is not so cut and dried. It is not just an ATHLETIC issue. For instance, HSPVA (High School for the Performing and Visual Arts) is a public (HISD) school. Yet my (KISD) daughter, could attend as long as she could get back and forth. Their cirriculum is set up differently than othere public schools. They have three hours a day in their fine arts class. They compete in UIL activities. Yet they have students, who do not pay for the priveledge of going there, from all over the area.

Bottom line, there is a difference in public and private schools boundaries. If ALL private schools were put in the UIL then the boundaried issue would make more sense and you would have to attend the school within whose boundary you live. But it is not that way. So at this point comparing Apples to Oranges just doesn't work.

There just needs to be allot of integrity on everyones part and circumstances across the board for rules violated. If you are going to participate in the UIL then you abide by all rules that the other schools do. If that means changing your current policies and prodeedures then it should be done.

[Drake]

IMO - there is no black or white answer here. Yes, in the case of "most" public schools I do think that geographic boundaries is the way to go. That is an advantage you have of attending a private school. You can choose, apply, pay, and get to and from on your own if you want to go. Now, as I said it is not so cut and dried. It is not just an ATHLETIC issue. For instance, HSPVA (High School for the Performing and Visual Arts) is a public (HISD) school. Yet my (KISD) daughter, could attend as long as she could get back and forth. Their cirriculum is set up differently than othere public schools. They have three hours a day in their fine arts class. They compete in UIL activities. Yet they have students, who do not pay for the priveledge of going there, from all over the area.

Bottom line, there is a difference in public and private schools boundaries. If ALL private schools were put in the UIL then the boundaried issue would make more sense and you would have to attend the school within whose boundary you live. But it is not that way. So at this point comparing Apples to Oranges just doesn't work.

There just needs to be allot of integrity on everyones part and circumstances across the board for rules violated. If you are going to participate in the UIL then you abide by all rules that the other schools do. If that means changing your current policies and prodeedures then it should be done.I agree. You can't have one b&w set of rules that applies to ALL circumstances. Your daughters case is a great example of why...

It comes down to formulating a workable solution that is honored and respected and lived by until it is SHOWN to be not working fairly, which is what the UIL tried to do, I think. I haven't seen any evidence that the rules they've established to create an opportunity for the kids at the Jesuit schools to compete have skewed the fairness in the UIL or Texas High School Football in particular, at least not yet... That's why, with an open mind, I'm hoping for the best instead of, as so many others seem to be, expecting the worst. :)

[gburgtiger]

Well, if you believe it's okay for it to overlap, don't you also believe it should be broad enough geographically to allow the school to fill its seats AND allow each of its students access to UIL competition?

because it's not the UIL that is limiting the students enrollment it is the Jesuit schools that are limiting their enrollment. I bet there are plenty who apply from with in the HISD zone to fill the seats.

By the way, how did you conclude it should encompass all of the HISD district zones because its geographically in HISD (is it?)? A student at Lamar can't go to Bellaire.

A student at Lamar who wants to be in a program that is not offered at Lamar can transfer to a school where it is offered.

I figure that treating a private as if it were a magnet school inside a district would level the playing field a little more. so an example would be HSPVA is allowed to have anyone from inside the HISD as an active participant.

[Miss Kitty]

I can't speak for athletics, but I can speak for fine arts. I have seen cases of inconsistencies between schools. But not just private vs. public schools. Katy is watched very closely, almost expected to slip up and violate rules. I have actually had a contest official stand over me and my group at a vocal competition with a clip board and make notes as to what we did. She even asked my daughter if I was giving her money as a booster club member/chaperone, and my daughter told her that I was giving her money for food as a mom. Yet we watched other schools have their lunch catered in and the chaperone told me their booster club paid for it. I had to watch my kids like a hawk to make sure they didn't sing the wrong thing at the wrong time as to not get disqualified. While they listened to other groups getting away with it. It kind of takes the fun out of it for the kids when they see that they are being treated unfairly.

So it doesn’t matter what school, public or private. There needs to be some consistency across the board as to what can and can not be done and what the penalties are for such violations. We have to remember, this should be about the kids and what it teaches them. Not just their talent, but what they learn about following rules and the sacrifices you make to perhaps change your circumstances. Example: SJ wants in the UIL; SJ has to limit its enrollment boundaries to X area. (I am not saying that is the answer, I am just using that as an example)

[Drake]

Example: SJ wants in the UIL; SJ has to limit its enrollment boundaries to X area. (I am not saying that is the answer, I am just using that as an example)I totally agree. Not necessarily with that particular idea, but with the idea that UIL should look at the particular circumstances in any case and make its best determination about what's fair to the schools affected (all schools in this case). In the case of allowing SJ and DJ to compete in UIL I think they tried to do that. When they said that any enrolling student living outside SJ or DJ’s attendance zone (they actually have one for this rules purpose) are ineligible for varsity competition, they created a rule that discourages junior and senior transfers for athletic purposes. I'm sure they took into account the two schools have allowed very few upperclassmen transfers anyway, so those two combined is one effective way to prevent recruiting that is not applied to public schools.

Your example seems practical, but it’s unnecessary. Neither school offers student housing so any fair attendance zone boundary would be similar to the combined areas they pull from already. I PROMISE you, while the quality of education at SJ is significant, very few families would ever consider making the drive from places like the Woodlands, Galveston, Kingwood, or Baytown on a daily basis to attend the school. (trust me) It’s just not feasible. They would either make arrangements to move closer (as they do in public schools) or they would go another direction.

Miss Kitty, I know we disagree in principle on this but I appreciate your candid and open-minded discussion. And here I was thinking ALL Katy fans were just like those overbearing, hard-headed SLC fans. :D

[Miss Kitty]

Naaaaa most of us are pretty easy going.

I am not sure that we totally disagree. I for one am not educated on the vast majority of what the UIL laid out for SJ or DJ and I will admit that. As I said my example was nothing more that a hypothetical situation. I didn't mean to indicate that was a solution of any kind. I am glad it is not my job to figure it all out. And the catering example I used was not a private school at all. I don't think it is a case of private vs. public so much as here are the rules, let's make them work. It is like, you are welcome to ride in my truck, but you are going to have to listen to my music. :D

And thank you for your kind words. Like I said, we are mainly pretty easy going folks. We just don't like tradition messed with. And we have allot of it.

[Drake]

Naaaaa most of us are pretty easy going.I know, was just messin' with ya... And the SLC people too... :)

[whyzat]

I know, was just messin' with ya... And the SLC people too... :)
You are far and away the most accomplished practitioner of the catch and release program that I have observed in some time, and certainly so in a sports forum. Please initiate a new thread that I may continue to document my thesis.

Best regards,
Whyzat

[The Lone Ranger]

We actually do have attendance rules. I believe that they are set by the district committee for each sport.

For 10-5A swimming, the rule is (and I don't know who came up with it or how) that if a student lives within the boundaries of Dallas ISD, or attended ANY school for 8th grade within those boundaries, they are eligible for freshman year. Otherwise, they have to sit out.

For a lot of other sports, freshmen are only eligible if they live within the boundaries of the WT White attendance zone.

I wouldn't mind rules that forbid all freshmen from playing varsity sports--it wouldn't affect us too much.

However, trying to restrict us to only a set boundary wouldn't be fair. If the kid wants to go to Jesuit, and is willing to get himself to our North Dallas campus (no government or diocese subsidized busses for us), then he should be able to have the full Jesuit experience, athletics included. Why should a student from Dallas be able to have that, but one from Sherman or Midlothian or Colleyville or Rockwall (we have students from all 4) not?

We should have identical rules to those of DISD's magnet schools. To the best of my knowledge, we do. There is no double standard for public and private schools with the UIL. We have the same rules as everyone else.

[Drake]

You are far and away the most accomplished practitioner of the catch and release program that I have observed in some time, and certainly so in a sports forum. Please initiate a new thread that I may continue to document my thesis.

Best regards,
WhyzatHey now! I resemble that remark! :o

[gburgtiger]

We actually do have attendance rules. I believe that they are set by the district committee for each sport.

For 10-5A swimming, the rule is (and I don't know who came up with it or how) that if a student lives within the boundaries of Dallas ISD, or attended ANY school for 8th grade within those boundaries, they are eligible for freshman year. Otherwise, they have to sit out.

For a lot of other sports, freshmen are only eligible if they live within the boundaries of the WT White attendance zone.

I wouldn't mind rules that forbid all freshmen from playing varsity sports--it wouldn't affect us too much.

However, trying to restrict us to only a set boundary wouldn't be fair. why not? that's what EVERY other school has to do.If the kid wants to go to Jesuit, and is willing to get himself to our North Dallas campus (no government or diocese subsidized busses for us)then you should probably start a lawsuit to get to use the public school buses, then he should be able to have the full Jesuit experience, athletics included. Why should a student from Dallas be able to have that, but one from Sherman or Midlothian or Colleyville or Rockwall (we have students from all 4) not? and why can't kids from haltom or terrel have the experience of going to southlake carrol?

We should have identical rules to those of DISD's magnet schools. To the best of my knowledge, we do. There is no double standard for public and private schools with the UIL. We have the same rules as everyone else.you are so blinded by your inability to see any other points. The rules are not the same. you said yourself IN THIS POST that you have students from 4 different school districts...public schools can't do that. same rules?...no.

houston magnet schools use to not let anyone outside of HISD enroll. I have first hand knowlege of this as one of my siblings was thinking of attending a houston magnet school but could not play sports if accepted. now it seems as if they have changed the rule...probably with the addition of the Jesuits.

[bullrock]

If DJ is allowed to "cherry pick" the entire DISD, why can't Trinity or SLC? You're ignoring the facts and they are really simple. A school with no apparent attendance zones has an advantage on those who have them. What would happen if someone with the money of say, Perot decided to buy all of the available land in SL for the purpose of starting a football factory? I can't think of a better place in Texas to put one right now. Would that be fair to SLISD? In your opinion, yes. This is exactly what the future holds for Texas high school football. It's already happening in basketball even though there is not a lot of crossover at this point. Right now the public schools can choose to boycott basketball tournaments with private schools on the roster. I know Judson used to pass on any basketball tournament that had privates involved. I'm not sure that is the case now because I don't have kids involved, but it seems if you want to play the best competition that's where you have to go.

[rwilleby]

I know Judson used to pass on any basketball tournament that had privates involved. I'm not sure that is the case now because I don't have kids involved, but it seems if you want to play the best competition that's where you have to go.

So did they (Judson) boycott because the other team (the Private) was better or because they were Privates?

[Drake]

If DJ is allowed to "cherry pick" the entire DISD, why can't Trinity or SLC? You're ignoring the facts and they are really simple. A school with no apparent attendance zones has an advantage on those who have them. What would happen if someone with the money of say, Perot decided to buy all of the available land in SL for the purpose of starting a football factory? I can't think of a better place in Texas to put one right now. Would that be fair to SLISD? In your opinion, yes. This is exactly what the future holds for Texas high school football.Ross Perot buying an all of Southlake to start a private school to dominate Texas High School football is the future of high school football in this state? You're wrong about me at least; I would be opposed to that. I would question his fiscal sanity because he could probably get the Dallas Cowboys for a lot less... But you never know what lengths these rich Dallasites will go to to win a state championship, so I guess it's possible.

As far as "cherry picking" DISD; Is DJ being allowed to cherry pick DISD? Who are some of the players they've taken? Did they lower the entrance requirements and waive the tuition to get them in their program? If they did that I think that goes against what they told the UIL about their intentions. I'd like the names because I think I'll write their administration and complain. But I'll bet you don't have any real examples.

Bullrock, we are all intelligent enough to create imaginable scenarios that would cause unfairness to someone. For every made up example of potential corruption you use, I could do the same to support an opposing opinion. What's the point? If you know of a REAL situation that has caused an inequity in this state's football competitions, then say it. Otherwise, it's no more than picnic conversation.

Seems to me that if you were intellectually honest about your concern for the fairness of Texas high school football, you should be more concerned how it is that just a handful of PUBLIC schools continually dominate year in and year out now, rather than fretting about the chances of some billionaire’s evil intention to supplant that current dominance. Shouldn't you?

[Miss Kitty]

Strake, I think Bull is just pointing that they "could" if they choose to. But as you pointed out, until they change their PRE-UIL standards of entrance and tuition, there is really nothing different than there was before. Any individual can choose to go to any private school if they can get in and pay for it. IF they started waiving grades and started providing scholarships in the interest of luring ringers to their school that would be different.

[dragonfootballfan]

As far as "cherry picking" DISD; Is DJ being allowed to cherry pick DISD? Who are some of the players they've taken? Did they lower the entrance requirements and waive the tuition to get them in their program? If they did that I think that goes against what they told the UIL about their intentions. I'd like the names because I think I'll write their administration and complain. But I'll bet you don't have any real examples.

You continue to assume that athletes are dumb and poor, which is not true.

[SLCDad]

Since the Jesuits aren't really competitive against the top privates any concerns about football recruiting don't amount to much.

[gburgtiger]

Ross Perot buying an all of Southlake to start a private school to dominate Texas High School football is the future of high school football in this state? You're wrong about me at least; I would be opposed to that. I would question his fiscal sanity because he could probably get the Dallas Cowboys for a lot less... But you never know what lengths these rich Dallasites will go to to win a state championship, so I guess it's possible.

As far as "cherry picking" DISD; Is DJ being allowed to cherry pick DISD? Who are some of the players they've taken? Did they lower the entrance requirements and waive the tuition to get them in their program? I just don't get you private school people with the "we're richer than you and smarter too" attitude. All public school athletes are not dumb and poor. the entrance requirements can stay exactly where they are and the tuition can remain high and you will still find star athletes. If they did that I think that goes against what they told the UIL about their intentions. I'd like the names because I think I'll write their administration and complain. But I'll bet you don't have any real examples.

Bullrock, we are all intelligent enough to create imaginable scenarios that would cause unfairness to someone. For every made up example of potential corruption you use, I could do the same to support an opposing opinion. What's the point? If you know of a REAL situation that has caused an inequity in this state's football competitions, then say it. Otherwise, it's no more than picnic conversation.

Seems to me that if you were intellectually honest about your concern for the fairness of Texas high school football, you should be more concerned how it is that just a handful of PUBLIC schools continually dominate year in and year out now, rather than fretting about the chances of some billionaire’s evil intention to supplant that current dominance. Shouldn't you?

here we go with the intellectual honesty again...why won't you try it for ten minutes. you don't think that every star athlete that is private school bound will now be persuaded(not by the coach, but by the attractiveness of playing in UIL) to attend a jesuit school. Isn't that unfair to the public school...and to make it fair shouldn't there be restrictions on the attendance zone so that someone who would have gone to a private school in the woodlands but instead chose SJ because of it's acceptance into UIL stays in the woodlands and does not create a deep pool of talent from a huge area?

[gburgtiger]

Since the Jesuits aren't really competitive against the top privates any concerns about football recruiting don't amount to much.

Yet...because there hasn't been a reason for an athlete (LISTEN UP STRAKEDRAKE) who can make the acedemic "cut" in private school to attend a Jesuit school...until now. Now every "Bernard, Winston, and Miles" (a reference to the private school version of tom, dick, and harry) who can throw catch or run a football is going to want to play at a jesuit school. -- no recuiting needed...it just happens and creates an unfair advantage over the public schools.

[Drake]

You continue to assume that athletes are dumb and poor, which is not true.Not at all... My assumption is that the Jesuit schools would not lower their admittance standards or tuition structure to win championships, that it is not in their interests to do so, and does not align itself with the their mission as a educational institution.

However, if an academically capable student is looking for a top-notch education and is also interested in top-notch athletics, by being in UIL the Jesuit schools won't be precluded from that student’s choices.

[Drake]

Anyone notice that at LEAST the dark side's argument has changed FROM:

"they'll recruit, lower their standards, and give scholarships to the BEST athletes"

TO:

"they'll get all the good athletes that can make the grades and afford the school"

I'd say they're coming around! :D

[dragonsdaddy]

Anyone notice that at LEAST the dark side's argument has changed FROM:

"they'll recruit, lower their standards, and give scholarships to the BEST athletes"

TO:

"they'll get all the good athletes that can make the grades and afford the school"

I'd say they're coming around! :D
the fact that sj and dj has higher standards and thus a limited enrollment pool, doesn't preclude the real threat, imo, of the next litigant entry using minimal academic standards. their drawing population could be quite a bit larger. i hope we are being chicken littles. i fear we aren'ty.

[gburgtiger]

Anyone notice that at LEAST the dark side's argument has changed FROM:

"they'll recruit, lower their standards, and give scholarships to the BEST athletes"

TO:

"they'll get all the good athletes that can make the grades and afford the school"

I'd say they're coming around! :D

nope...that's been my opinion since the very begining. although I still think that the possibility of recruiting is an issue. But even without recruiting there exists a built-in unfair advantage.

[Drake]

i hope we are being chicken littles. i fear we aren't.So, let me understand this... You are WORRIED that you are not WORRYING enough? What a paradox!

[Drake]

nope...that's been my opinion since the very begining. although I still think that the possibility of recruiting is an issue. But even without recruiting there exists a built-in unfair advantage.gburg... Who is your favorite high school football team?

[CCHS77]

[QUOTE=StrakeDrake]So, let me understand this... QUOTE]

I think it's clear to most, that you can't.

[whyzat]

Anyone notice that at LEAST the dark side's argument has changed FROM:

"they'll recruit, lower their standards, and give scholarships to the BEST athletes"

TO:

"they'll get all the good athletes that can make the grades and afford the school"

I'd say they're coming around! :D
Yes, but not coming willingly...being drug kicking and screaming on the cusp of false logic exposed. If you really care to test their mettle, inquire as to the logic of their opposition to universal school choice via a voucher system to provide choice for EVERY Texas student. If you choose to attend a football factory, fine. Prefer a top notch academic regimen, great. What logical basis exists to deny real and total equity, at least among public schools? The majority here has rabid fears regading a possible competetive disadvantage in sports, while the rest of the world is leaving our schools far behind in core academics. While I realize this imbalance may not apply, or be as severe, in the schools representated on this forum, it is nevertheless a broadbased problem and will affect all of us if not addressed. Many seem preoccupied with the arcane details of attendence boundaries for athletics, while Rome burns.

[dragonsdaddy]

Yes, but not coming willingly...being drug kicking and screaming on the cusp of false logic exposed. If you really care to test their mettle, inquire as to the logic of their opposition to universal school choice via a voucher system to provide choice for EVERY Texas student. If you choose to attend a football factory, fine. Prefer a top notch academic regimen, great. What logical basis exists to deny real and total equity, at least among public schools? The majority here has rabid fears regading a possible competetive disadvantage in sports, while the rest of the world is leaving our schools far behind in core academics. While I realize this imbalance may not apply, or be as severe, in the schools representated on this forum, it is nevertheless a broadbased problem and will affect all of us if not addressed. Many seem preoccupied with the arcane details of attendence boundaries for athletics, while Rome burns.
you have brought up an argument that is even more contentious and broad based than the peas and carrots stuff of late. certainly won't get a concensus here, or anywhere.

[Drake]

Many seem preoccupied with the arcane details of attendence boundaries for athletics, while Rome burns.Not me! I'm not preoccupied with sports at all... Jim Rome is on fire? ;)

[gburgtiger]

gburg... Who is your favorite high school football team?

What does that matter?...I am a katy fan. would my outlook be different if I was a houston davis fan...probably not.

[Drake]

Whyzat... I know you could make a convincing argument as to why that (vouchers) is important but those types of issues will never be seriously addressed in this country until its too late. The main reason is that most people, just like with the public/private school debate, fear change... Especially those that currently thrive in the status quo. Its no coincidence that the Katy and SLC fans are squealing the loudest about the modification of the UIL rules, as they perceive themselves as having the most to lose if their fears become reality.

[gburgtiger]

Whyzat... I know you could make a convincing argument as to why that (vouchers) is important but those types of issues will never be seriously addressed in this country until its too late. The main reason is that most people, just like with the public/private school debate, fear change... Especially those that currently thrive in the status quo. Its no coincidence that the Katy and SLC fans are squealing the loudest about the modification of the UIL rules, as they perceive themselves as having the most to lose if their fears become reality.

the only reason the SLC and Katy fans are "squealing the loudest" is because the remaining posters who watch this board durring the off season seem to be very heavily Katy and SLC fans. If you can find a Houston Davis board and pose these same questions I would think you would get the same response.

[Drake]

What does that matter?...I am a katy fan. would my outlook be different if I was a houston davis fan...probably not.Can you honestly say you believe that there are enough good athletes within driving distance of Strake Jesuit, that meet their entrance requirements, and will be willing to pay the tuition, to build a program that would supplant Katy as the dominant team in the area? Honestly?

[Miss Kitty]

Actually, you could be wrong about Katy and SLC screaming the loudest. That is who you hear because that of this forum. And probably because football is your point of involvement/interest. And those two schools are strong in that area. But let me interject, again, the UIL governs ALL extracurricular activities, not just sports. And the other areas involve their own set of issues with allowing private schools in the UIL which affect many other schools strongly. And yes, these schools have been screaming loudly too.

I can pretty much assure you that Katy itself does not fear a loss because of the decision. This school is built on YEARS AND YEARS of traditions and generations of families that make it strong. We really are a deeply rooted school. But having felt the sting of the UIL's wrath because of its rules, we just want things to be kept fair across the board for all.

[gburgtiger]

Can you honestly say you believe that there are enough good athletes within driving distance of Strake Jesuit, that meet their entrance requirements, and will be willing to pay the tuition, to build a program that would supplant Katy as the dominant team in the area? Honestly?


is that the issue? because I thought SJ wasn't trying to supplant katy as a dominant team? I thought they just wanted to compete and have fun? now they want to dominate...so it has begun already?

and yes I believe that...katy doesn't always have the best athletes in the area in fact they rarely do. they have built a program that breeds success based not on a stable full of 6'5" 230lb guys who can run sub 4.4 40s, but on a bunch of over achieving 5'10" guys who are very disciplined...so if you are asking me if there are enough 5'10" 175lbs teenagers in the area that have good grades and can afford private school to fill a football team...then absolutly yes.

[Drake]

Miss Kitty - We agree. On the football board it's SLC and Katy, on the swimming board it would probably be Clear Lake (or whoever dominates swimming), on the baking board it might be Lee or Madison... I think your post gives credence to mine...

[Drake]

Gburg - it's no fun discussing this with you because you are a a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices... :(

[gburgtiger]

Gburg - it's no fun discussing this with you because you are a a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices... :(


the feeling is mutual because you my friend, are the exact same way. and I only ask of you what you ask of everyone else...consider the other point of view. I know you and I will never resolve differences in opinion on this topic, but for all those that are listening (or reading as the case may be) both sides of the arguement should be discussed. If they are not then freewill to come to an opinion is clouded, right? Ajury must hear both sides of the story.

[dragonsdaddy]

Gburg - it's no fun discussing this with you because you are a a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices... :(
not completely unlike some others around here, you in particular.

[Drake]

the feeling is mutual because you my friend, are the exact same way. and I only ask of you what you ask of everyone else...consider the other point of view. I know you and I will never resolve differences in opinion on this topic, but for all those that are listening (or reading as the case may be) both sides of the arguement should be discussed. If they are not then freewill to come to an opinion is clouded, right? Ajury must hear both sides of the story.I realize I'm not going to change your mind or anyone else's and my opinion doesn't mean diddly... This debate is no more than a entertaining give and take... The only reward is making a point you can't logically (or intellectually) refute. Its value to me is somewhere between doing a crossword and trying to get down to one golf tee on that stupid puzzle at Cracker Barrel (for the SLC readers, its a restaurant). The reason it is no fun competing with you at it is I play fair by using information that I know (or believe) is real and true to make a point and you use hyperbolic "what ifs..." I and others logically explain a position or point, then you come back with something like "what if martians landed in Seguin and had the means to easily commute to Strake?" (and you ASSUME they would have the means)... Its like playing tic-tac-toe and giving you the first three turns... I would hardly ever win! Thats why it's no fun, it's certainly nothing personal about you :)

[Miss Kitty]

I realize I'm not going to change your mind or anyone else's and my opinion doesn't mean diddly... This debate is no more than a entertaining give and take... The only reward is making a point you can't logically (or intellectually) refute. It's value to me is somewhere between doing a crossword and trying to get down to one golf tee on that stupid puzzle at Cracker Barrel (for the SLC readers, its a restaurant). The reason it is no fun competing with you at it is I play fair by using information that I know (or believe) is real and true to make a point and you use hyperbolic "what ifs..." I and others logically explain a position or point, then you come back with something like "what if martians landed in Seguin and had the means to easily commute to Strake?" (and you ASSUME they would have the means)... Its like playing tic-tac-toe and giving you the first three turns... Thats why it's no fun, it's certainly nothing personal about you :)


LMAO :D That's funny....I don't care who you are.

[gburgtiger]

I realize I'm not going to change your mind or anyone else's and my opinion doesn't mean diddly... This debate is no more than a entertaining give and take... The only reward is making a point you can't logically (or intellectually) refute. It's value to me is somewhere between doing a crossword and trying to get down to one golf tee on that stupid puzzle at Cracker Barrel (for the SLC readers, its a restaurant). The reason it is no fun competing with you at it is I play fair by using information that I know (or believe) is real and true to make a point and you use hyperbolic "what ifs..." I and others logically explain a position or point, then you come back with something like "what if martians landed in Seguin and had the means to easily commute to Strake?" (and you ASSUME they would have the means)... Its like playing tic-tac-toe and giving you the first three turns... Thats why it's no fun, it's certainly nothing personal about you :)

but I'm not using what if's...I am saying that allowing 2 private schools into a league that obviously is the desire of most college bound athletes (for the exposure and higher level of competition) will create an advatage for SJ and DJ over the other private schools and will lead to SJ and DJ having a deeper talent pool than they have now.

and the arguements you use all have to do with "we haven't broken any of OUR rules yet." and to that I agree...where our opinions differ is that I don't believe it is fair to have "your" rules and "our" rules...no what if's in that right?

you seem to think that it's fair to have seperate rules as long as you don't break any of "your" rules. My point is that "your" rules have a built in advantage. Then you say you don't use that unfair advantage...waiting for a true example, here it is...your QB is from katy? is it fair that you can use him and a <insert position> from <insert area other than close proximity to strake jesuit> and Houston Reagan has to find players from a 10 square mile area and field a team that is competitive...I don't think that is fair...and I didn't use any what ifs.

[Sakatha]

I realize I'm not going to change your mind or anyone else's and my opinion doesn't mean diddly... This debate is no more than a entertaining give and take... The only reward is making a point you can't logically (or intellectually) refute. It's value to me is somewhere between doing a crossword and trying to get down to one golf tee on that stupid puzzle at Cracker Barrel (for the SLC readers, its a restaurant). The reason it is no fun competing with you at it is I play fair by using information that I know (or believe) is real and true to make a point and you use hyperbolic "what ifs..." I and others logically explain a position or point, then you come back with something like "what if martians landed in Seguin and had the means to easily commute to Strake?" (and you ASSUME they would have the means)... Its like playing tic-tac-toe and giving you the first three turns... I would hardly ever win! Thats why it's no fun, it's certainly nothing personal about you :)

I am curious if you think that people in SL don't know what a Cracker Barrel is, and why....

I associate CB with country restaurants that happen to *all* be on the side of the road on major highways in between large cities.. I.E. EVERYTHING IN SOUTHLAKE................

~DnM

[gburgtiger]

I am curious if you think that people in SL don't know what a Cracker Barrel is, and why....

I associate CB with country restaurants that happen to *all* be on the side of the road on major highways in between large cities.. I.E. EVERYTHING IN SOUTHLAKE................

~DnM

he's making a poke and y'all being a "well to do" area...which I find ironic because he doesn't think there are any good athletes that are smart enough or affluent enough to get into his school. so again, pot...meet kettle.

[dragonfootballfan]

he's making a poke and y'all being a "well to do" area...which I find ironic because he doesn't think there are any good athletes that are smart enough or affluent enough to get into his school. so again, pot...meet kettle.
isn't he a private school supporter? How can a private school supporter poke fun at somebody's affluence?

[Sakatha]

he's making a poke and y'all being a "well to do" area...which I find ironic because he doesn't think there are any good athletes that are smart enough or affluent enough to get into his school. so again, pot...meet kettle.


Yup, and anyone who has been to Southlake or lives there will quickly tell you that there's alot of 'small town' to it...

~DnM

[Miss Kitty]

C'mon guys. He was just trying to lighten up the conversation I am sure. There was another comment made like that in this string by someone else and nobody said anything. It is like Katy folks being called rice farmers. We joke about that stuff all of the time. All over this board are posts about the affluence of SLC by people from SLC people. Hummers per capita, $400,000 houses, no apartments in our town, etc. I am sorry but that leaves you open to those jokes. It is all in fun.

This is offseason people, lighten up.

[Drake]

you seem to think that it's fair to have seperate rules as long as you don't break any of "your" rules. My point is that "your" rules have a built in advantage. Then you say you don't use that unfair advantage...waiting for a true example, here it is...your QB is from katy? is it fair that you can use him and a <insert position> from <insert area other than close proximity to strake jesuit> and Houston Reagan has to find players from a 10 square mile area and field a team that is competitive...I don't think that is fair...and I didn't use any what ifs.No you didn't, not that time.

I think the UIL agreed that it's MORE FAIR to allow that student to compete as long as he and the private school met its requirements for participation than it would have been exclude him from the athletic opportunities that only (in Texas) the UIL can provide. Does that make sense?

[Sakatha]

C'mon guys. He was just trying to lighten up the conversation I am sure. There was another comment made like that in this string by someone else and nobody said anything. It is like Katy folks being called rice farmers. We joke about that stuff all of the time. All over this board are posts about the affluence of SLC by people from SLC people. Hummers per capita, $400,000 houses, no apartments in our town, etc. I am sorry but that leaves you open to those jokes. It is all in fun.

This is offseason people, lighten up.

I wish I agreed... Sorry... :(

~DnM

p.s. Anyone who is calling ANYONE a 'rice farmer' is a frickin' racist... I have numerous asian friends who would flip out if they heard that. Even if it wasn't meant in that way.

[Drake]

C'mon guys. He was just trying to lighten up the conversation I am sure. There was another comment made like that in this string by someone else and nobody said anything. It is like Katy folks being called rice farmers. We joke about that stuff all of the time. All over this board are posts about the affluence of SLC by people from SLC people. Hummers per capita, $400,000 houses, no apartments in our town, etc. I am sorry but that leaves you open to those jokes. It is all in fun.

This is offseason people, lighten up.Miss Kitty... I don't think i'm using enough of these: :) :D :rolleyes: :p :eek: in my satirical posts... Whatcha think?

[gburgtiger]

No you didn't, not that time.

I think the UIL agreed that it's MORE FAIR to allow that student to compete as long as he and the private school met its requirements for participation than it would have been exclude him from the athletic opportunities that only (in Texas) the UIL can provide. Does that make sense?


Did they? or did they decide that it would be too expensive to fight for what they really though was right and just gave in?

[Drake]

I wish I agreed... Sorry... :(

~DnM

p.s. Anyone who is calling ANYONE a 'rice farmer' is a frickin' racist... I have numerous asian friends who would flip out if they heard that. Even if it wasn't meant in that way.Well, to be quite honest... Anyone that hears or reads "rice farmer" and immediately thinks of their Asian friends is... um... uh...

[Sakatha]

Well, to be quite honest... Anyone that hears or reads "rice farmer" and immediately thinks of their Asian friends is... um... uh...

That was after I ran it by a buddy of mine... So.. um... uh...

~DnM

[Miss Kitty]

I wish I agreed... Sorry... :(

~DnM

p.s. Anyone who is calling ANYONE a 'rice farmer' is a frickin' racist... I have numerous asian friends who would flip out if they heard that. Even if it wasn't meant in that way.



Sakatha, you need to take a powder sweetie. You are a little uptight. Did you know that Katy is known for it's rice? We even have a Rice Harvest Festival. There is nothing racists about it. That is not all they call us, it is just one of the things. Point is, you blow it off and be proud of where you are from and at the same time, you realize the people from the outside may just not understand. And that is okay too. This world would be a boring place if we were all just alike. :)

[Miss Kitty]

Miss Kitty... I don't think i'm using enough of these: :) :D :rolleyes: :p :eek: in my satirical posts... Whatcha think?


Yes you need to use those little smiley guys. But I think we need the Joe Cool guy and everyone just needs to chill out at times.

[Sakatha]

Sakatha, you need to take a powder sweetie. You are a little uptight. Did you know that Katy is known for it's rice? We even have a Rice Harvest Festival. There is nothing racists about it. That is not all they call us, it is just one of the things. Point is, you blow it off and be proud of where you are from and at the same time, you realize the people from the outside may just not understand. And that is okay too. This world would be a boring place if we were all just alike. :)


Which would make your first remark even more puzzling... How would calling someone a rice farmer from Katy be insulting if it wasn't meant the way I(and probably almost everyone outside of the Houston area) took it...

~DnM

[Drake]

Did they? or did they decide that it would be too expensive to fight for what they really though was right and just gave in?Well, who knows?... The suit was in the courts for three years and, according to what I read, when it looked like the 5th Circuit might rule in DJ's favor, the UIL caved.

I don't think it had to do with money at all. I'm guessing that HAD the UIL allowed the 5th Circuit to rule, they risked the ruling being so broadly in favor of private school participation that the UIL would have had NO bargaining power left. By "giving in" the UIL actually salvaged the ability to put certain stipulations on the Jesuit schools and in the UIL Constitution, stipulations that will keep private participation from becoming a free for all with many of the conditions we see in other states. Now that’s just supposition, but it jives in my mind a lot better than “the UIL didn’t have the money.”

[Drake]

Sakatha, you need to take a powder sweetie. You are a little uptight. Did you know that Katy is known for it's rice? We even have a Rice Harvest Festival. There is nothing racists about it. That is not all they call us, it is just one of the things. Point is, you blow it off and be proud of where you are from and at the same time, you realize the people from the outside may just not understand. And that is okay too. This world would be a boring place if we were all just alike. :)Yeah! :) Being from Baytown, I KNOW plenty of people in Anahuac that are rice farmers and proud of it, as they should be, its a very lucrative occupation. By the way, none are Asian <shrug>

[Miss Kitty]

Well they do think they are insulting us. But they really aren't.

But they are poking fun at us just like the comment about Cracker Barrell was poking fun at SLC. Poking fun, that's all. Nothing more.

[Sakatha]

Well they do think they are insulting us. But they really aren't.

But they are poking fun at us just like the comment about Cracker Barrell was poking fun at SLC. Poking fun, that's all. Nothing more.

I guess I mistook poking fun for being a jerk. My bad.

Look, that wasn't the first time he's said something backhanded for no reason at all. If I had flown off the handle for no reason, that would be different.

I understand picking on someone who you would consider your friend. Making fun of someone you don't know is something else entirely.

~DnM

[gburgtiger]

Well, who knows?... The suit was in the courts for three years and, according to what I read, when it looked like the 5th Circuit might rule in DJ's favor, the UIL caved.

I don't think it had to do with money at all. I'm guessing that HAD the UIL allowed the 5th Circuit to rule, they risked the ruling being so broadly in favor of private school participation that the UIL would have had NO bargaining power left. By "giving in" the UIL actually salvaged the ability to put certain stipulations on the Jesuit schools and in the UIL Constitution, stipulations have and will keep private participation from becoming a free for all with many of the conditions we see in other states. Now that’s just supposition, but it jives in my mind a lot better than “the UIL didn’t have the money.”

ok..so what that means is that the UIL was forced into it and that they really didn't find that it was "MORE FAIR" to include the jesuits...they had no recourse and no choice and to save the UIL from becoming all inclusive public and private league, they let them in reluctantly?

[Drake]

I guess I mistook poking fun for being a jerk. My bad.

Look, that wasn't the first time he's said something backhanded for no reason at all. If I had flown off the handle for no reason, that would be different.

~DnMHey, I'm a button pusher... It wasn't personal, I promise... I've noticed these threads with a little bristling playfulness get read more and have more participation... If I offended you, I'm sorry...

[gburgtiger]

I guess I mistook poking fun for being a jerk. My bad.

Look, that wasn't the first time he's said something backhanded for no reason at all. If I had flown off the handle for no reason, that would be different.

I understand picking on someone who you would consider your friend. Making fun of someone you don't know is something else entirely.

~DnM


I don't know...being a jerk is what measage boards seem to be about. I like this one because it is very mild and well controlled...thanks KT2000 et al...most other boards are too thick with people just out to hide behind a screen name and bash everything and everyone.

I've taken my shots at some...I never mean it to be harmfull. it's all in good fun.

[Miss Kitty]

I guess I mistook poking fun for being a jerk. My bad.

Look, that wasn't the first time he's said something backhanded for no reason at all. If I had flown off the handle for no reason, that would be different.

I understand picking on someone who you would consider your friend. Making fun of someone you don't know is something else entirely.

~DnM


I understand what you mean. But on here we are all just one big family anyway, right. LOL I don't think most things said on here are meant in a personal way at all. I am not saying that at times we can't all get our feathers ruffled and be jerks at times. And no, you did not fly off the handle. But don't take what he said personally either. He just made a comment about a restaurant. Smile, darlin. Life is too short.:)

[Drake]

ok..so what that means is that the UIL was forced into it and that they really didn't find that it was "MORE FAIR" to include the jesuits...they had no recourse and no choice and to save the UIL from becoming all inclusive public and private league, they let them in reluctantly?That's my take. And maybe the UIL didn't come to that conclusion themselves, but if the presidentially appointed and congressionally approved judges that sit on the 5th Court of Appeals for the United States of America were going to RULE that it was MORE FAIR, why in the hell does it matter if the UIL really had a different view?

[dragonfootballfan]

That's my take. And maybe the UIL didn't come to that conclusion themselves, but if the presidentially appointed and congressionally approved judges that sit on the 5th Court of Appeals for the United States of America were going to RULE that it was MORE FAIR, why in the hell does it matter if the UIL really had a different view?
you agree with every single court decision?

[Drake]

you agree with every single court decision?Nope, just that one ;) (even though it wasn't technically a court ruling)

[gburgtiger]

That's my take. And maybe the UIL didn't come to that conclusion themselves, but if the presidentially appointed and congressionally approved judges that sit on the 5th Court of Appeals for the United States of America were going to RULE that it was MORE FAIR, why in the hell does it matter if the UIL really had a different view?

the courts at one time also ruled that women couldn't vote. They once ruled that slavery was allowed, that alcohol was illegal, and that witches should be burned at the stake. The courts aren't always right.

[gburgtiger]

That's my take. And maybe the UIL didn't come to that conclusion themselves, but if the presidentially appointed and congressionally approved judges that sit on the 5th Court of Appeals for the United States of America were going to RULE that it was MORE FAIR, why in the hell does it matter if the UIL really had a different view?


and since it was the court of APPEALS that means that the first case was ruled in the UILs favor.

[Drake]

and since it was the court of APPEALS that means that the first case was ruled in the UILs favor.Not sure, I know a lower court dismissed the case, but I don't know why...

[Drake]

the courts at one time also ruled that women couldn't vote. They once ruled that slavery was allowed, that alcohol was illegal, and that witches should be burned at the stake. The courts aren't always right.Well... In this case the UIL made the ruling, not the courts... But as far as courts go, I think it's prudent citizenship to live by and make the best of their rulings until they are changed or reversed, don't you?

[The Lone Ranger]

I really don't care about what the UIL does with private schools as long as we have the same rules as everyone else and they leave us room to pick 2 non-district football games (Coppell and Bishop Lynch).

I believe that it will be awhile before any more private schools join the UIL. And when they do, I believe that the next wave will also have just 2 schools: Houston St. Agnes and Dallas Ursuline.

I believe that it will be at least 10 years before a "Christian" school (let's face it, they do most of the illegal recruiting. Just look at the post on Cornerstone Christian) into the UIL. If they do, it'll be a whole new ball game.

But until then, we should just accept the Jesuit schools as what they are: middle of the road schools in 5A. We haven't dominated any sport. The highest place we've gotten in anything is Regional Runner Up in Soccer (we might have won a region in cross-country, I'm not sure).

We're just average schools following the same rules as the rest of the league. We haven't been censured or sanctioned in our 2.5 years of membership. So far, we've been good. It'll continue in the past.

Now, the Baptist school may turn out to be a problem in the future, but until it seems likely to happen, let's just assume that the UIL's private school members aren't cheating.

[gburgtiger]

Well... In this case the UIL made the ruling, not the courts... But as far as courts go, I think it's prudent citizenship to live by and make the best of their rulings until they are changed or reversed, don't you?

I agree...I think of myself as a law abiding citizen, but that doesn't mean that I have to like it or that it is right. And really that's been my stance all along. I accept the fact that the Jesuit schools are in UIL, but I don't like it and I don't think its fair to the public schools.

[Drake]

I agree...I think of myself as a law abiding citizen, but that doesn't mean that I have to like it or that it is right. And really that's been my stance all along. I accept the fact that the Jesuit schools are in UIL, but I don't like it and I don't think its fair to the public schools.Your objection has been noted ;)