Obama at 49% and sinking ...

[15Adragon]

Obama has managed to take a 65% approval rating and turn it into 49% in just 6 months. Maybe he should pause and go back and review what he said in the campaign and compare it to what he is doing and how he is doing it. It might be a good exercise.

[drgnbkr]

Obama has managed to take a 65% approval rating and turn it into 49% in just 6 months. Maybe he should pause and go back and review what he said in the campaign and compare it to what he is doing and how he is doing it. It might be a good exercise.

Maybe he should just go back...:p Wait then we'd be stuck with "stand up chuck"...bad idea. The trends are definitely not obama's friend. But there is a ways to go till 2010 and for him 2012. He can still screw up a lot more stuff...:p

[cougmantx]

Obama has managed to take a 65% approval rating and turn it into 49% in just 6 months. Maybe he should pause and go back and review what he said in the campaign and compare it to what he is doing and how he is doing it. It might be a good exercise.

That's what happens when you are trying to get big ideas passed. Nothing happens in a vacuum and if his numbers weren't dropping than I would think he wasn't working hard enough or thinking large enough...

They will be back up when they need to be...don't get your hopes to high...:D

[smw358]

Maybe he should just go back...:p Wait then we'd be stuck with "stand up chuck"...bad idea. The trends are definitely not obama's friend. But there is a ways to go till 2010 and for him 2012. He can still screw up a lot more stuff...:p Where too? No one seems to know....:rolleyes:

That's what happens when you are trying to get big ideas passed. Nothing happens in a vacuum and if his numbers weren't dropping than I would think he wasn't working hard enough or thinking large enough...

Then I guess George Bush was a genius? His numbers were way down.

They will be back up when they need to be...don't get your hopes to high...:D

[cougmantx]

Hahahaha...George Bush is the anti christ...:D:p

[pied]

Obama has managed to take a 65% approval rating and turn it into 49% in just 6 months. Maybe he should pause and go back and review what he said in the campaign and compare it to what he is doing and how he is doing it. It might be a good exercise.

Have newer results come in?

PRINCETON, NJ -- Barack Obama's second quarter as U.S. president, spanning April 20-July 19, began with some of the highest approval ratings of his presidency, but these slumped a bit near the end of the quarter, including a term-low 56% approval rating in July 5-7 polling. Overall, he averaged 62% approval for the quarter.

[15Adragon]

Have newer results come in?

Yes, today.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

[smw358]

Hahahaha...George Bush is the anti christ...:D:p

I got new for ya.....so is Obama.....:D

[Maroondog]

Maybe he should just go back...:p Wait then we'd be stuck with "stand up chuck"...bad idea. The trends are definitely not obama's friend. But there is a ways to go till 2010 and for him 2012. He can still screw up a lot more stuff...:p

Can't wait. :rolleyes:

[b756561]

Hahahaha...George Bush is the anti christ...:D:p

That is exactly what my wife has been saying about Obama for about a year now. Well every since he made that speech saying "HE was the ONE we have all been waiting for."

[pied]

Yes, today.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

Thanks for the link. Perhaps one day I will understand the way the poll works.

[drgnbkr]

Hahahaha...George Bush is the anti christ...:D:p

We've been told that often enough...Some even believe it! :p

[cougmantx]

We've been told that often enough...Some even believe it! :p

Just like with Obama...some even believe it...:D

[b756561]

Just like with Obama...some even believe it...:D

As I've said before, my wife believes it. And I have learned over the years that if my wife believes it, I don't dispute it .......at least not in front of her. Of course, we cancalled each others votes in the last election......Shhhhh... don't tell her.

[the_phoenix612]

So do we accept polls or not?

and if we do, do we accept the fact that the inevitable erosion of approval in the months after inauguration happens to every president?

[chhspantherfan]

Thanks for the link. Perhaps one day I will understand the way the poll works.

if phoenix were around, he would post this to help you;)

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/var/plain/storage/images/media/obama_index_graphics/july_2009/obama_index_july_24_2009/235624-1-eng-US/obama_index_july_24_2009.jpg

[drgnbkr]

So do we accept polls or not?

and if we do, do we accept the fact that the inevitable erosion of approval in the months after inauguration happens to every president?

I don't know, but at this point in his term obama is 12th out of the 14 previous presidents. Below Carter & both Bush's.

[dragonsdaddy]

So do we accept polls or not?

and if we do, do we accept the fact that the inevitable erosion of approval in the months after inauguration happens to every president?

i for one don't accept your proclamation without some corroboration. where's the graph?

[chhspantherfan]

So do we accept polls or not?

and if we do, do we accept the fact that the inevitable erosion of approval in the months after inauguration happens to every president?

and there you are!!!!

So this is the reality after the honeymoon?

[cougmantx]

I don't know, but at this point in his term obama is 12th out of the 14 previous presidents. Below Carter & both Bush's.

Be careful now...don't wet your panties with joy...:D

[the_phoenix612]

and there you are!!!!

So this is the reality after the honeymoon?

http://www.hist.umn.edu/~ruggles/Approval_files/Approval_27267_image001.png

http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~gelman/stuff_for_blog/perspective.pdf

[the_phoenix612]

I don't know, but at this point in his term obama is 12th out of the 14 previous presidents. Below Carter & both Bush's.

also, there is a reason Gallup is the standard, not Rasmussen.

[drgnbkr]

Be careful now...don't wet your panties with joy...:D

Panties? Depends...:p

[b756561]

if phoenix were around, he would post this to help you;)

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/var/plain/storage/images/media/obama_index_graphics/july_2009/obama_index_july_24_2009/235624-1-eng-US/obama_index_july_24_2009.jpg

No he wouldn't. I've tried to get Phoenix to look at this poll and he says he doesn't trust it, for whatever his reasoning is. I think he doesn't like it because it doesn't go with his view of how life should be. But that's just my opinion and who am I to be putting a spin on how Phoenix sees things.

[chhspantherfan]

what year are you living in?


BHO is my President !!!

[the_phoenix612]

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m261/killerrabbit612/Untitled-20.jpg

[pied]

if phoenix were around, he would post this to help you;)

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/var/plain/storage/images/media/obama_index_graphics/july_2009/obama_index_july_24_2009/235624-1-eng-US/obama_index_july_24_2009.jpg

I saw that, but it never indicates 65% mentioned in the original post. It appears to peak in the mid 50's, correct?

[SWMHebron]

So do we accept polls or not?

and if we do, do we accept the fact that the inevitable erosion of approval in the months after inauguration happens to every president?

We accept that the results are what they are for the people polled. I'm not always really sure how widely those results can be extrapolated.

[drgnbkr]

We accept that the results are what they are for the people polled. I'm not always really sure how widely those results can be extrapolated.

They're only a tool...like phoenix!:D

[the_phoenix612]

every time someone attacks polls, i admit the shortcomings of snapshot polls like this, and emphasize the need to look at a broad range of polling on the same subject. this is what realclearpolitics and pollster.com do.

These show something interesting.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m261/killerrabbit612/Untitled-21.jpg

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m261/killerrabbit612/Untitled-22.jpg

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_obama_job_approval-1044.html#polls

The rasmussen poll is not only the ONLY one to show him with less than 50 percent, but its the ONLY one to show him with LESS than a double-digit approval difference.

This is a perfect example of bad polling, and it comes as no surprise that drgnbkr and friends, as well as FauxNews have picked this up and run with it, but if you are actually interested in reality (a change, for neocons) it takes a little bit of googling. when pollster's aggregations dip below 53, let me know.

[the_phoenix612]

I saw that, but it never indicates 65% mentioned in the original post. It appears to peak in the mid 50's, correct?

rasmussen has always been at least 10 points below the average. Bad polling from bad internals. I've explained this before, but it apparently fell on deaf ears.

[drgnbkr]

Bad polling = poll you don't like.

[15Adragon]

rasmussen has always been at least 10 points below the average. Bad polling from bad internals. I've explained this before, but it apparently fell on deaf ears.

wut ? :cool:

[the_phoenix612]

Rasmussen also manipulates their results in a very sneaky way. Everybody else calculates favorability by approve+strongly approve versus disapprove+strongly disapprove. Rasmussen only uses the strongly data.

All their little trick shows is what we all know, that people who dont like obama REALLY dont like obama.

[the_phoenix612]

Bad polling = poll you don't like.

bad polling=poll more than 10 points outside the average, toward my viewpoint or not.

[pied]

rasmussen has always been at least 10 points below the average. Bad polling from bad internals. I've explained this before, but it apparently fell on deaf ears.

perhaps, I don't know.

I read the original statement:

Obama has managed to take a 65% approval rating and turn it into 49% in just 6 months. Maybe he should pause and go back and review what he said in the campaign and compare it to what he is doing and how he is doing it. It might be a good exercise.

Looks like he's been in the mid/high 40's since JAnuary. I looked for something that said "65", and cuoldn't find historical info nor anything resembling "65". Still can't find it on the site or the graphthat was produced here.

[the_phoenix612]

perhaps, I don't know.

I read the original statement:



Looks like he's been in the mid/high 40's since JAnuary. I looked for something that said "65", and cuoldn't find historical info nor anything resembling "65". Still can't find it on the site or the graphthat was produced here.

the 65% was from a different poll, one that still shows him with 59 percent favorability.

Rasmussen has FAR too many conservatives in their internal numbers to accurately represent the nation, based on every other bit of data collected. THIS is why you look at averages and aggregations.

[15Adragon]

perhaps, I don't know.

I read the original statement:



Looks like he's been in the mid/high 40's since JAnuary. I looked for something that said "65", and cuoldn't find historical info nor anything resembling "65". Still can't find it on the site or the graphthat was produced here.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/obama_approval_index_history

Scroll to the bottom. Second column from the right.

[pied]

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/obama_approval_index_history

Scroll to the bottom. Second column from the right.


Thanks

[the_phoenix612]

Even Fox News' poll for that time had a higher approval than Rasmussen, and lower unfavorable!

FOX News....1/27 - 1/28........900.RV......65.....16....+49
Gallup..........1/25 - 1/27........1500.A......64.....16....+48
Rasmussen...1/25 - 1/27........1500.LV.....62.....36....+26
Hotline/FD...1/21 - 1/24.........800.RV......63......9.....+54
Gallup ........1/21 - 1/23........ 1591.A.......68.....12....+56

[b756561]

every time someone attacks polls, i admit the shortcomings of snapshot polls like this, and emphasize the need to look at a broad range of polling on the same subject. this is what realclearpolitics and pollster.com do.
The rasmussen poll is not only the ONLY one to show him with less than 50 percent, but its the ONLY one to show him with LESS than a double-digit approval difference.

This is a perfect example of bad polling, and it comes as no surprise that drgnbkr and friends, as well as FauxNews have picked this up and run with it, but if you are actually interested in reality (a change, for neocons) it takes a little bit of googling. when pollster's aggregations dip below 53, let me know.

No matter which poll you look at, they all have one very clear pattern emerging that I don't see why everyone can not agree to. The pattern I am refering to is that in every poll you see Obama's support constantly going down and the percentages who do not agree with Obama constantly going up. At what point does he start becoming as ineffective as Bush became?

Now I full well expect someone to come back and refute the pattern I see. And someone will come back and say how strong Obama still is and how effective he is and blah, blah, blah. Still my point is the pattern shows his support is steadly leaving (I think he lost some police support here in the last couple of days :p) and how far can he let it drop and still be effective? When must he back off his liberal slant and start pleasing the center? The Right is always going to be against him and the Left is always going to be for him, but what about the Center? I believe most polls are starting to show he has slippage there also.

[cyfallsbooster2]

.....he has slippage there also.

One word.......Polygrip.

[Favpack]

America's not ready to embrace socialism yet - thank God.

[dragonsdaddy]

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m261/killerrabbit612/Untitled-20.jpg

my take here would be that almost every undecided from 1/09 has decided in favor of being anti-o and 10+% of his favorables have switched. is that accurate? is that good or bad for o, trend-wise?

[Favpack]

my take here would be that almost every undecided from 1/09 has decided in favor of being anti-o and 10+% of his favorables have switched. is that accurate? is that good or bad for o, trend-wise?

I think the answer lies in the man's hair. It's turning grayer faster than mine.

[JagFan]

I think the answer lies in the man's hair. It's turning grayer faster than mine.

Phoenix had a point awhile back and that is what I have been watching. It is not the strongly approve or disapprove. It is the people in the middle. Or the swing voters. Their approval or disapproval is what counts comes election time.

Yes, Obama is falling in that category as well, but remember we are a year from the midterm elections and lots can happen. Those voters are also very trendy.

[stevefoxsc]

Arguing politics on a friday?

Yeah I'm gonna go out eat have a few drinks and get laid.

Some of you should probably do the same.

[b756561]

Phoenix had a point awhile back and that is what I have been watching. It is not the strongly approve or disapprove. It is the people in the middle. Or the swing voters. Their approval or disapproval is what counts comes election time.

Yes, Obama is falling in that category as well, but remember we are a year from the midterm elections and lots can happen. Those voters are also very trendy.

I just went back thru this thread and did not find one mention of the Center Vote by Phoenix. Did I miss it somewhere? :confused:

[JagFan]

I just went back thru this thread and did not find one mention of the Center Vote by Phoenix. Did I miss it somewhere? :confused:

Sorry I should have said he said it in of the last are polls reliable debates. It has been a while but the advice stuck with me. He is correct in that it is the approve disapprove that decide not the strongly approve strongly disapprove.

[b756561]

Sorry I should have said he said it in of the last are polls reliable debates. It has been a while but the advice stuck with me. He is correct in that it is the approve disapprove that decide not the strongly approve strongly disapprove.

I find it hard to believe Phoenix could be so perceptive, however in this instance, he is correct. :notworthy

Ohhh that pains me to admit that Phoenix is right about something.
Go ahead Phoenix, gloat. I know you want too. :o

[JagFan]

I find it hard to believe Phoenix could be so perceptive, however in this instance, he is correct. :notworthy

Ohhh that pains me to admit that Phoenix is right about something.
Go ahead Phoenix, gloat. I know you want too. :o

He has his moments ;)

[15Adragon]

48% and continuing to sink .....

[pied]

Different numbers but similar story:

PRINCETON, NJ -- Amidst President Obama's push in July to revamp the nation's healthcare system, Gallup finds his average job approval rating registering 56% for the seven-day period ending Sunday, down from 59% the previous week. This three percentage point drop is the largest week-to-week decline seen in Obama's job approval thus far in his presidency, and punctuates a gradual descent from his 66% rating in early May.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/121934/Obama-Approval-Slips-Three-Points-Past-Week.aspx

[GoOwls]

That's what happens when you are trying to get big ideas passed. Nothing happens in a vacuum and if his numbers weren't dropping than I would think he wasn't working hard enough or thinking large enough...

They will be back up when they need to be...don't get your hopes to high...:D

I remember people just like you protesting in the streets when #43's numbers were dropping about how America was no longer backing his policies and we needed "CHANGE".

Well.....you got change....now choke on it for the next 3 1/2 years....:mad:

[RedRage00]

I remember people just like you protesting in the streets when #43's numbers were dropping about how America was no longer backing his policies and we needed "CHANGE".

Well.....you got change....now choke on it for the next 3 1/2 years....:mad:

That's what he said.

[GoOwls]

Thanks for the link. Perhaps one day I will understand the way the poll works.

If you practice your usual selective understanding, prolly not.....;)

[GoOwls]

So do we accept polls or not?

and if we do, do we accept the fact that the inevitable erosion of approval in the months after inauguration happens to every president?

So....you had no problem with #43 then....stands to reason.....your logic of course....:rolleyes:

[GoOwls]

also, there is a reason Gallup is the standard, not Rasmussen.

Liberals like to make polls that tend to support them as the "standard".....:eek: :eek:

[GoOwls]

rasmussen has always been at least 10 points below the average. Bad polling from bad internals. I've explained this before, but it apparently fell on deaf ears.

Gosh....poll expert....internet God....golf king....master of all he surveys.....all before he even steps foot in the door of a college....

...dang, kid.....you're good.....;) :rolleyes:

[JOH]

Gosh....poll expert....internet God....golf king....master of all he surveys.....all before he even steps foot in the door of a college....

...dang, kid.....you're good.....;) :rolleyes:

I wouldn't be surprised with all those polls and graphs he posts...maybe he even makes them? He'll major in Graph and Poll posting, with a minor in Whining.

[pied]

If you practice your usual selective understanding, prolly not.....;)

I understand a poll that says 49% people approve of something. When you break the answers down into varying levels of approval and then subtract some from another, I get a bit confused.

I'll bet you did not even click the link and see what the data was, just got a chubber when it said, "Obama bad"......

[GoOwls]

That's what he said.

Spoken like someone who's been there....;) :D

[GoOwls]

I wouldn't be supervised with all those polls and graphs he posts...maybe he even makes them? He'll major in Graph and Poll posting, with a minor in Whining.

I don't know.....he's a MAJOR whiner.....;)

[GoOwls]

I understand a poll that says 49% people approve of something. When you break the answers down into varying levels of approval and then subtract some from another, I get a bit confused.

I'll bet you did not even click the link and see what the data was, just got a chubber when it said, "Obama bad"......

;)

You were looking, weren't you.....;)

[BDB]

goowls....please give me the blue pill..... blind me.... i must live under a rock the way you do.

you seem to strive off it.

[pied]

;)

You were looking, weren't you.....;)

nope, RR told me.

[GoOwls]

goowls....please give me the blue pill..... blind me.... i must live under a rock the way you do.

you seem to strive off it.

Shut up...you love me and you know it.....;)

[GoOwls]

nope, RR told me.

That b*****d.......:eek: ;)

[CyFallsMom]

That is exactly what my wife has been saying about Obama for about a year now. Well every since he made that speech saying "HE was the ONE we have all been waiting for."

I can't call him that anymore - got jumped on too much in the early going. So I just call him Voldemort now.:)

[DrEdward]

I can't call him that anymore - got jumped on too much in the early going. So I just call him Voldemort now.:)

:D:laugh

[15Adragon]

He is falling faster than all presidents from Bush II to Carter....

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/07/30/obama_drops_faster_than_bush_or_carter_97703.html

[pied]

He is falling faster than all presidents from Bush II to Carter....

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/07/30/obama_drops_faster_than_bush_or_carter_97703.html

Depends on what your definition of "is" is. From the article.

Obama began his presidency at 68. He hit 69 the following day. That means he's dropped 16 points since day one.

So in less time than Carter, Obama has fallen more.

And Obama's bad numbers are fairly uniform. In the past day alone, NBC News/Wall Street Journal and the Pew Research Center have shown similar results.

Both W. Bush and Bill Clinton reached the low 50s sooner than Obama. W. Bush hit 53 in March; Clinton hit 51 within a month of his inauguration. But W. Bush and Clinton began their presidencies with approval ratings about 10 points lower than Obama. And indeed, Obama has therefore fallen faster than W. Bush as well.

Clinton's presidency was going far worse than Obama's at this point; Clinton hit 37 by early June 1993. George H.W. Bush also began low, at 51. But he did not return to that floor until October 1990, at 53 percent--more than a year after Obama.

Ronald Reagan began his presidency low as well, at 51. He too did not return to his low until after Obama, in mid September (it's worth noting that Reagan was boosted by the assassination attempt during that period).

In other words, Obama's got problems. Health care has come up against the rocks and the cop and prof race debacle has also likely taken some toll. Then there is the unemployment rate, almost assured to soon reach double digits.

[15Adragon]

Falling like a broken teleprompter. ;)

[DragonWatcher]

You know I'm amazed at all the people like goowls and 15adragon that have a new sudden unshakable belief in political polling. I wonder where that was 9 months.

I'm not disputing what the numbers are saying, really the actual percentage point doesn't matter. What does is the trending decline that is shown among all major polls. It's easy to see why this happening, Health care is a very contentious issue where people are more evenly split than in other issues where people side with obama much more heavily, foreign policy, taxation, etc.

I would say after the health care debate is over his numbers will go back, probably one big reason he was pushing for it to get through to fast, which I agree is not the right way to go about. Even some people who are for a public option like myself, but want to see how it's gonna get paid before I give my support (it's gonna be higher taxes I know). I would be one of the 51% that dissaprove of Obama right now because healthcare is the dominant issue. Once that shifts again the numbers will shift.

It's still a long way to 2010 and the real dealbreaker isn't going to be healthcare, its the economy, and right now it's still way to early to call how that is going to go.

And just so you know Reagan your demigod amongst men hit some major highs and lows in polling during his presidency as well.

[15Adragon]

You know I'm amazed at all the people like goowls and 15adragon that have a new sudden unshakable belief in political polling. I wonder where that was 9 months.

I'm not disputing what the numbers are saying, really the actual percentage point doesn't matter. What does is the trending decline that is shown among all major polls. It's easy to see why this happening, Health care is a very contentious issue where people are more evenly split than in other issues where people side with obama much more heavily, foreign policy, taxation, etc.

I would say after the health care debate is over his numbers will go back, probably one big reason he was pushing for it to get through to fast, which I agree is not the right way to go about. Even some people who are for a public option like myself, but want to see how it's gonna get paid before I give my support (it's gonna be higher taxes I know). I would be one of the 51% that dissaprove of Obama right now because healthcare is the dominant issue. Once that shifts again the numbers will shift.

It's still a long way to 2010 and the real dealbreaker isn't going to be healthcare, its the economy, and right now it's still way to early to call how that is going to go.

And just so you know Reagan your demigod amongst men hit some major highs and lows in polling during his presidency as well.

wut???? I didn't know where the yard was 9 months ago...

Seriously, Obama's agenda is reaching way beyond what most americans want. This is reflected in the polls/trends etc... Health care has its challenges but it does not need to be given over to the far left to rework into a broken governmental mess. Obama wants to handover 1/6 of our economy to Pelosi and Reid. nuf said...

[DragonWatcher]

wut???? I didn't know where the yard was 9 months ago...

Seriously, Obama's agenda is reaching way beyond what most americans want. This is reflected in the polls/trends etc... Health care has its challenges but it does not need to be given over to the far left to rework into a broken governmental mess. Obama wants to handover 1/6 of our economy to Pelosi and Reid. nuf said...

So he was over reaching while he was at 60 two months ago?

[15Adragon]

So he was over reaching while he was at 60 two months ago?

Honeymoon... falling like a rock.

The word is getting out. You can't hide as pres. You can't please everyone. You have to weigh in and his positions are surprising some of his followers. I guess when you vote present all the time you can skate on fluffy talk, but as pres you have to do something. We are now starting to see what he wants for this country and what he believes.

[BDB]

You know I'm amazed at all the people like goowls and 15adragon that have a new sudden unshakable belief in political polling. I wonder where that was 9 months.

I'm not disputing what the numbers are saying, really the actual percentage point doesn't matter.

deflecting all the hate their party received while having to cope with the only president in us history to start a war and not make money (for the government, we know they got paid) off of it.

[GoOwls]

You know I'm amazed at all the people like goowls and 15adragon that have a new sudden unshakable belief in political polling. I wonder where that was 9 months.

I'm not disputing what the numbers are saying, really the actual percentage point doesn't matter. What does is the trending decline that is shown among all major polls. It's easy to see why this happening, Health care is a very contentious issue where people are more evenly split than in other issues where people side with obama much more heavily, foreign policy, taxation, etc.

I would say after the health care debate is over his numbers will go back, probably one big reason he was pushing for it to get through to fast, which I agree is not the right way to go about. Even some people who are for a public option like myself, but want to see how it's gonna get paid before I give my support (it's gonna be higher taxes I know). I would be one of the 51% that dissaprove of Obama right now because healthcare is the dominant issue. Once that shifts again the numbers will shift.

It's still a long way to 2010 and the real dealbreaker isn't going to be healthcare, its the economy, and right now it's still way to early to call how that is going to go.

And just so you know Reagan your demigod amongst men hit some major highs and lows in polling during his presidency as well.

Don't confuse belief with pointing out ridiculous hypocrisies.

I no more believe in them now than when they supported your guy more.....I just have learned from you guys that "When in Rome, do as the Romans do".

Don't let your little panties get all in a wad when someone uses your own tactics against you....actually, you need your own medicine.....he who lives by the poll should die by the poll......;)

Chomp on your freakin' polls for a while....you deserve it, along with the rest of the ridiculous Obamessiah skirt chasers.

[GoOwls]

So he was over reaching while he was at 60 two months ago?

Americans are basically stupid...they are too A.D.D. to do any real research....all they knew was that they were tired of Bush, and McCain represented "business as usual".....Obama got elected more due to when he ran as opposed to what he ran on.....the people are beginning to see what he stands for, something I trumpeted upon deaf ears all last year, and now they are beginning to go......HUH??????

Simple as that.

[slorch]

Obama has managed to take a 65% approval rating and turn it into 49% in just 6 months. Maybe he should pause and go back and review what he said in the campaign and compare it to what he is doing and how he is doing it. It might be a good exercise.

he didn't say much in the campaign. From his perspective, what's the problem?

[EagleDude73]

Pete Sessions says they are targeting 80 seats in the 2010 midterm elections and plans to paint house moderate democrats as Pelosi backers.

[the_phoenix612]

I actually appreciate your acceptance of the laws of statistics. I dearly hope you're ready for that to come back and bite you in the *** big.

[b756561]

I actually appreciate your acceptance of the laws of statistics. I dearly hope you're ready for that to come back and bite you in the *** big.

Who made up those laws? Those lawmakers should be ashamed of themselves. Making up silly laws like those. Can we try to defeat them next election?

[15Adragon]

In fairness, the Obamasuds is back up to a 50% approval rating. With Congress out of town it should continue to track up.

[15Adragon]

The buzz from the suds has worn off after a couple of days at 50 and 51%. The ObamaLetMeTakeCareOfYou approval rating is back at 49% and sinking....

[dragonsdaddy]

The buzz from the suds has worn off after a couple of days at 50 and 51%. The ObamaLetMeTakeCareOfYou approval rating is back at 49% and sinking....

you are more than splitting hairs here. the degree of uncertainty is way more than the 1% you are touting.

[the_phoenix612]

you are more than splitting hairs here. the degree of uncertainty is way more than the 1% you are touting.

:eek:

A modicum of understanding about how polling works?

I'm shocked.

[dragonsdaddy]

:eek:

A modicum of understanding about how polling works?

I'm shocked.

more than a modicum of smarminess. i'm not shocked.

[GoOwls]

more than a modicum of smarminess. i'm not shocked.

;) :notworthy :notworthy ;)

[the_phoenix612]

more than a modicum of smarminess. i'm not shocked.

smarminess =/= sarcasm

learn2vocabulary :p

[dragonsdaddy]

smarminess =/= sarcasm

learn2vocabulary :p
my vocab is just fine little one. look in a mirror for once.

[pied]

The buzz from the suds has worn off after a couple of days at 50 and 51%. The ObamaLetMeTakeCareOfYou approval rating is back at 49% and sinking....

Interesting, Gallup's numbers are up(as of Monday). Good place to keep/track this info in my opinion.

PRINCETON, NJ -- President Barack Obama's job approval rating, after hitting his administration low point of 52% in the middle of last week, has edged back up, and is 56% for the latest three-day period, July 31-Aug. 2.


Gallup measures Obama's job approval rating on a daily basis, and reports three-day rolling averages consisting of approximately 1,500 interviews. Obama's three-day average was 61% as recently as July 17-19 but began to drop thereafter, reaching the aforementioned low point of 52% from July 27-29, Monday through Wednesday of last week. The high point for Obama was the 69% average that was measured in late January, just after he took office.

Obama's current 56% rating is about average for the job approval ratings of all presidents Gallup has measured since 1945, and is roughly equal to the approval rating of his immediate predecessor, George W. Bush, in early August 2001 -- Bush's first year in office. Comparisons of Obama's current standing to that of other recent presidents in the summer of their first year in office are mixed. Obama is well above where Bill Clinton was at about the same time in the summer of his first year, but he is at least a few points behind the positions of George H.W. Bush, Ronald Reagan, and Jimmy Carter at comparable times in their first year in the White House.



http://www.gallup.com/poll/122012/Obama-Job-Approval-Edges-Up-56.aspx

[SLCDad]

Reposted from Closed Thread. The point of this post isn't about Obama's approval rating but rather to illustrate that most American's disagree with Obama's actions issue by issue on a few of the most important issues today.

From This Week's Rasmussen poll results of US Voters:

Obama's impact on the Deficit:
71% say Obama’s policies have increased the size of the federal deficit
5% say the president’s policies have cut the deficit
10% they have had no impact
13% not sure

Tax Cuts or Obamacare:
54% say tax cuts for the middle class are more important than new spending for health care reform as President Obama’s top economic advisers signal that tax hikes may be necessary.
34% disagree and say new spending for health care reform is more important
12% are not sure.

Cash for Clunkers
54% of Americans oppose any further funding for the federal “cash for clunkers” program
33% think Congress should authorize additional funding
13% are not sure

Obama's Tax Increases (including Obama letting the Bush tax cuts expire)
16% of U.S. voters believe that tax increases help the economy.
54% say tax increases hurt the economy
14% say tax increases have no impact
16% are not sure

Generic Congressional Ballot Since Obama Election
...............Dem.......GOP
Aug 2.......38%.......43%
Jul 5.........38%.......41%
May 3.......39%.......40%
Mar 1.......41%.......39%
Jan 25......42%.......35%
Dec 7.......42%.......38%

[pied]

Links typically are nice when posting info of this sort.

Not to say your full of crap though, just that they're nice to see......

[JMSFan]

Links typically are nice when posting info of this sort.

Not to say your full of crap though, just that they're nice to see......

From This Week's Rasmussen poll results of US Voters:

[JagFan]

Links typically are nice when posting info of this sort.

Not to say your full of crap though, just that they're nice to see......

Or you could go to the Rasmussen site yourself. ;)

[15Adragon]

Reposted from Closed Thread. The point of this post isn't about Obama's approval rating but rather to illustrate that most American's disagree with Obama's actions issue by issue on a few of the most important issues today.

From This Week's Rasmussen poll results of US Voters:

Obama's impact on the Deficit:
71% say Obama’s policies have increased the size of the federal deficit
5% say the president’s policies have cut the deficit
10% they have had no impact
13% not sure

Tax Cuts or Obamacare:
54% say tax cuts for the middle class are more important than new spending for health care reform as President Obama’s top economic advisers signal that tax hikes may be necessary.
34% disagree and say new spending for health care reform is more important
12% are not sure.

Cash for Clunkers
54% of Americans oppose any further funding for the federal “cash for clunkers” program
33% think Congress should authorize additional funding
13% are not sure

Obama's Tax Increases (including Obama letting the Bush tax cuts expire)
16% of U.S. voters believe that tax increases help the economy.
54% say tax increases hurt the economy
14% say tax increases have no impact
16% are not sure

Generic Congressional Ballot Since Obama Election
...............Dem.......GOP
Aug 2.......38%.......43%
Jul 5.........38%.......41%
May 3.......39%.......40%
Mar 1.......41%.......39%
Jan 25......42%.......35%
Dec 7.......42%.......38%


When you step back a few steps and examine the body of work coming from our elected officials over the past 7 months, it is not very impressive. They are voting on and signing bills that very few have read or understand the impact. Amazing... It is disappointing, but elections do have consequences.

[JagFan]

From This Week's Rasmussen poll results of US Voters:

Jinx you owe me a coke:)

[JMSFan]

jinx you owe me a coke:)


haha.

[pied]

From This Week's Rasmussen poll results of US Voters:


perhaps I am doing something wrong, but I keep clicking that and nothing happens........


same to you JF!

Or you could go to the Rasmussen site yourself. ;)

[pied]

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

FYI-there is no rasmussen.com and rassmussen.com is something entirely different.

[JOH]

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

FYI-there is no rasmussen.com and rassmussen.com is something entirely different.

I learned a lesson similar to that when, in anticipation of the 1st movie, I googled 'X men'. Clicked the first thing that popped up. Wasn't at all what I was looking for, as one could imagine.

[SLCDad]

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

FYI-there is no rasmussen.com and rassmussen.com is something entirely different.

Nope. Not exactly the correct link, but your's is a good one also.

You need to go to this link. I pulled the data I posted from several articles there.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics

[JagFan]

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

FYI-there is no rasmussen.com and rassmussen.com is something entirely different.

Neither one of us told you to go to rasmussen.com. SLCDad was very nice and copied the whole poll onto his quote so we would not have to click and look. He even made sure you knew where it come from. We are just suggesting that if you want to look into it in more depth then go to the site yourself.

So what's on rassmussen.com. I'm to scared to look;)

[JOH]

Neither one of us told you to go to rasmussen.com. SLCDad was very nice and copied the whole poll onto his quote so we would not have to click and look. He even made sure you knew where it come from. We are just suggesting that if you want to look into it in more depth then go to the site yourself.

So what's on rassmussen.com. I'm to scared to look;)

Can't be worse than gay men with ball gags and thongs.

[JagFan]

Can't be worse than gay men with ball gags and thongs.

:eek:

[pied]

I learned a lesson similar to that when, in anticipation of the 1st movie, I googled 'X men'. Clicked the first thing that popped up. Wasn't at all what I was looking for, as one could imagine.

One day mrs. pied and I were talking about getting uniforms for our daughter's soccer team. The local soccer association had a deal with Dick's sporting goods. I quickly went to that site, but it wasn't quite what I was looking for. I turned around the computer very quickly to show her exactly what had happened to avoid any awkward conversations down the line.

[pied]

Neither one of us told you to go to rasmussen.com. SLCDad was very nice and copied the whole poll onto his quote so we would not have to click and look. He even made sure you knew where it come from. We are just suggesting that if you want to look into it in more depth then go to the site yourself.

So what's on rassmussen.com. I'm to scared to look;)

I have good reason to question SLCDad's posts.


Rassmussen.com is some sort f college link. Nothing exciting, interesting, or related to the conversation at hand.

[JOH]

One day mrs. pied and I were talking about getting uniforms for our daughter's soccer team. The local soccer association had a deal with Dick's sporting goods. I quickly went to that site, but it wasn't quite what I was looking for. I turned around the computer very quickly to show her exactly what had happened to avoid any awkward conversations down the line.

:notworthy It would have been most unfortunate if you hadn't have kept her in the loop and she had gone through your web history.

[pied]

:notworthy It would have been most unfortunate if you hadn't have kept her in the loop and she had gone through your web history.

Luckily I said something to the effect of "Let's see if they have them at Dick's", and then blammo!!!

[SLCDad]

I have good reason to question SLCDad's posts.

:laugh:laugh:laugh

I always post facts as I know them or from quality sources.

[pied]

:laugh:laugh:laugh

I always post facts as I know them or from quality sources.


super

[E-Vol-ution]

Healthcare is in a very sensitive crisis. It has to be addressed at some stage for the good of the overall true legal population in the US. Maybe not the exact answer is with his presentation of it but we sure should see that we fix it.
It is one of the few bastions left of classical "rip off at it's finest".....them, investments, credit, dying, some churches and to many degrees still our justice system...
Not saying he's got the right answer to everything......but have you ever seen so many people actually involved in us seeing who's been jacking it up and who actually has something to say and do for an answer?
Just seems to me, more people are involved and noticed in our process of handling things........... :laugh:laugh:laugh

I always post facts as I know them or from quality sources.

[ktCarl]

CNN showed a poll this afternoon that had Obama's approval rating at 56% and declining. This is so polarizing.

[mad_fan]

that rassmussen.com sucks...thanks for the pointer pied...:(

[mad_fan]

Neither one of us told you to go to rasmussen.com. SLCDad was very nice and copied the whole poll onto his quote so we would not have to click and look. He even made sure you knew where it come from. We are just suggesting that if you want to look into it in more depth then go to the site yourself.

So what's on rassmussen.com. I'm to scared to look;)

I followed pied there and it sucks...
Like searching for free porn...
One link leads to another page of links and so on...

[JagFan]

I followed pied there and it sucks...
Like searching for free porn...
One link leads to another page of links and so on...

That's why I asked instead of going. To many surprises. Glad to her it was boring stuff:)

[pied]

That's why I asked instead of going. To many surprises. Glad to her it was boring stuff:)

and why I like people to link the story so I am not at risk.

[mad_fan]

and why I like people to link the story so I am not at risk.

When you can just make up the link???:rolleyes:

[the_phoenix612]

I followed pied there and it sucks...
Like searching for free porn...
One link leads to another page of links and so on...

you're clearly doing it wrong.

[mad_fan]

you're clearly doing it wrong.

/b...I'm trying to do it right...
can you help???

[the_phoenix612]

/b...I'm trying to do it right...
can you help???

maybe.

[BDB]

/b...I'm trying to do it right...
can you help???

delete system 32. it'll work better.

[SLCDad]

From Rasmussen polls:
Friday, August 07, 2009

Perceptions of Obama

Obama Approval Index.......................-4
Strongly Approve..............................34%
Strongly Disapprove..........................38%
Taxes Will Go Down...........................11%
Gov't Spending Will Go Up..................68%
Obama on Economy - Ex/Good...........42%
Obama on Nat'l Sec - Ex/Good...........43%
Politically Liberal..............................76%
Obama on Energy - Ex/Good..............45%
More Ethical Than Most Politicians......38%
Trust Obama on Economic Crisis.........29%

[SLCDad]

This is not good news for Obama. The American people are starting to wake up about the socialist government that we have elected.

Scroll down link for graphs.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll


By the way, the Rasmussen presidential polls have been very accurate. For the 2008 election they ranked #1 (tie) out of 20 polls.

1. Rasmussen (11/1-3)**
1. Pew (10/29-11/1)**
2. YouGov/Polimetrix (10/18-11/1)
3. Harris Interactive (10/20-27)
4. GWU (Lake/Tarrance) (11/2-3)*
5. Diageo/Hotline (10/31-11/2)*
5. ARG (10/25-27)*
6. CNN (10/30-11/1)
6. Ipsos/McClatchy (10/30-11/1)
7. DailyKos.com (D)/Research 2000 (11/1-3)
8. AP/Yahoo/KN (10/17-27)
9. Democracy Corps (D) (10/30-11/2)
10. FOX (11/1-2)
11. Economist/YouGov (10/25-27)
12. IBD/TIPP (11/1-3)
13. NBC/WSJ (11/1-2)
14. ABC/Post (10/30-11/2)
15. Marist College (11/3)
16. CBS (10/31-11/2)
17. Gallup (10/31-11/2)
18. Reuters/ C-SPAN/ Zogby (10/31-11/3)
19. CBS/Times (10/25-29)
20. Newsweek (10/22-23)

[15Adragon]

47% ....

[E-Vol-ution]

Any huge issue like Healthcare is going to produce a drop in ratings........it's all about whether or not a solution is gained.

[slorch]

From Rasmussen polls:
Friday, August 07, 2009

Perceptions of Obama

Obama Approval Index.......................-4
Strongly Approve..............................34%
Strongly Disapprove..........................38%
Taxes Will Go Down...........................11%
Gov't Spending Will Go Up..................68%
Obama on Economy - Ex/Good...........42%
Obama on Nat'l Sec - Ex/Good...........43%
Politically Liberal..............................76%
Obama on Energy - Ex/Good..............45%
More Ethical Than Most Politicians......38%
Trust Obama on Economic Crisis.........29%

11% of the folks evidently confused "taxes" with "tax revenue"

[drgnbkr]

Now at 47% and still falling...

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

[the_phoenix612]

can we rename this the right wing circle jerk thread?

[slorch]

can we rename this the right wing circle jerk thread?

or the "left Wing gets a good dose of reality" thread:rolleyes:

[the_phoenix612]

or the "left Wing gets a good dose of reality" thread:rolleyes:

I just think its funny seeing you guys all jizz your pants over some polls NOW....

[slorch]

I just think its funny seeing you guys all jizz your pants over some polls NOW....

the only thing I commented on was the tax question, and I stand by my questioning of it.

[the_phoenix612]

the only thing I commented on was the tax question, and I stand by my questioning of it.

http://joshandtamrashow.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/lonelyisland.jpg

[slorch]

WTF is that?

[CyFallsMom]

I just think its funny seeing you guys all jizz your pants over some polls NOW....


I'm not jizzed over the polls - actually, I think they are lower in reality but it doesn't matter really. What matters is that this administration stop coming down on every day Americans who are doing just what he asked us to do - organize and bring it to the streets. Go door to door if we have to. Oh, was that just for him to get elected? My bad.:cool:

The shoe on the other foot is usually tighter and often hurts. He doesn't like it that there is dissention in the streets. Gee, Libs have been doing that since long before you were a flicker in your daddy's eye. It's okay, as long as it's a lib isn't it? I'll wait for your cut and paste since you really don't have the history to be making too many judgements. Books teach you a lot but life and having lived a life teaches you a lot more.

[the_phoenix612]

WTF is that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXfHLUlZf4

[slorch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXfHLUlZf4

you're about as funny as a fart in church...

[15Adragon]

I would think that an 18% drop in a little over 6 months is very significant. Buyers remorse starting to set in?

[the_phoenix612]

you're about as funny as a fart in church...

I'm much funnier in church than a fart.

[drgnbkr]

Been following the polls all along...knew that the reality of what they've done would eventually set in with the voters...never thought obama would contribute so heavily to his own sag. Pelosi is such an embarrassment that there are now left wing columnists like camille paglia calling for her to step down..the whole thing is on a downward trend.

[15Adragon]

Been following the polls all along...knew that the reality of what they've done would eventually set in with the voters...never thought obama would contribute so heavily to his own sag. Pelosi is such an embarrassment that there are now left wing columnists like camille paglia calling for her to step down..the whole thing is on a downward trend.

They had it going for a while and then they started to overreach and it really came to a head on the health care issue. They also made a real mistake labeling and demonizing the proptesters the way they did.

[the_phoenix612]

They had it going for a while and then they started to overreach and it really came to a head on the health care issue. They also made a real mistake labeling and demonizing the proptesters the way they did.

http://joshandtamrashow.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/lonelyisland.jpg

[CyFallsMom]

Been following the polls all along...knew that the reality of what they've done would eventually set in with the voters...never thought obama would contribute so heavily to his own sag. Pelosi is such an embarrassment that there are now left wing columnists like camille paglia calling for her to step down..the whole thing is on a downward trend.

That's what usually happens - it happened with Bush and Obama isn't immune. Many have found that he isn't, in fact, Superman but just a man. Pelosi is FAR worse than he is though. I think if she were gone, it would be to his benefit...if he would just stop campaigning for one moment!! He also needs to watch the "open mouth insert foot" syndrome that seems to be overtaking him of late. Bush had that too - but it's okay to talk about that.:rolleyes:

[15Adragon]

As much as it pains me to bump this thread I have no choice. The teleprompter hit the fan....

We are now at 45 %..... that is a 20 point drop in a little over 7 months... carry on.

[chhspantherfan]

As much as it pains me to bump this thread I have no choice. The teleprompter hit the fan....

We are now at 45 %..... that is a 20 point drop in a little over 7 months... carry on.

was wondering when this might happen. you da' straw.

[Mong Hu]

In honor of Phoenix,


From Rasmussen reports,

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/var/plain/storage/images/media/obama_index_graphics/september_2009/obama_approval_index_september_2_2009/244743-1-eng-US/obama_approval_index_september_2_2009.jpg

53% disapprove
46% apporve

From Gallup,

52% approve
42% disaprove

From real clear politics
51.5% approve
43.8% disaprove

when pollster's aggregations dip below 53, let me know.

Pheonix, I was just letting you know that the aggregations have dipped below 53%. :)

[rwilleby]

Mong Hu, that knocked me on the floor... Ha! Great post...

[HebronHawk]

In honor of Phoenix,


From Rasmussen reports,

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/var/plain/storage/images/media/obama_index_graphics/september_2009/obama_approval_index_september_2_2009/244743-1-eng-US/obama_approval_index_september_2_2009.jpg

53% disapprove
46% approve

From Gallup,

52% approve
42% disaprove

From real clear politics
51.5% approve
43.8% disaprove



Pheonix, I was just letting you know that the aggregations have dipped below 53%. :)


Didn't really take that long for the American people to reject the liberal Socialist Democrat Party philosophy did it.

Now America needs to vote that way in 2010.:cool:

[the_phoenix612]

In honor of Phoenix,


From Rasmussen reports,

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/var/plain/storage/images/media/obama_index_graphics/september_2009/obama_approval_index_september_2_2009/244743-1-eng-US/obama_approval_index_september_2_2009.jpg

53% disapprove
46% apporve

From Gallup,

52% approve
42% disaprove

From real clear politics
51.5% approve
43.8% disaprove



Pheonix, I was just letting you know that the aggregations have dipped below 53%. :)

Thanks. I'll admit to not following things as closely as I want, with school starting and all.

Things, at this point, don't look good for the Democratic party in 2010 UNLESS the indications that the economy is recovering are true. If the economy rebounds before, say, October 2010, I think they're fine. I still think, based on past results and historical tendencies, that the Democratic party WILL lose seats in the house, but not their majority either way.

The interesting thing that's happening is there is increasing disapproval of the President and Congress by Democrats, many of whom say they are not pushing a liberal enough agenda. If healthcare gets passed, with the public option, which is NOT government-run healthcare, may I interject, these people will be satisfied and the approvals will bounce again.

Now, please don't blindly attack this post as most of you usually do. We've had such a positive few weeks and I'd hate for you all to ruin it.

[15Adragon]

Thanks. I'll admit to not following things as closely as I want, with school starting and all.

Things, at this point, don't look good for the Democratic party in 2010 UNLESS the indications that the economy is recovering are true. If the economy rebounds before, say, October 2010, I think they're fine. I still think, based on past results and historical tendencies, that the Democratic party WILL lose seats in the house, but not their majority either way.

The interesting thing that's happening is there is increasing disapproval of the President and Congress by Democrats, many of whom say they are not pushing a liberal enough agenda. If healthcare gets passed, with the public option, which is NOT government-run healthcare, may I interject, these people will be satisfied and the approvals will bounce again.

Now, please don't blindly attack this post as most of you usually do. We've had such a positive few weeks and I'd hate for you all to ruin it.

I think the public option is dead based on a few of the articles that I glanced at this morning. The O administration is looking at what can be passed as it relates to HC. This will get the votes he needs to accomplish something, but he will anger the far left.

[the_phoenix612]

I think the public option is dead based on a few of the articles that I glanced at this morning. The O administration is looking at what can be passed as it relates to HC. This will get the votes he needs to accomplish something, but he will anger the far left.

Sadly, you may be right.

Mad props to the Right wing smear machine on that one. Not an insult, I'm truly in awe of the ability of religiously motivated people to change the national political conversation into something entirely unrelated to reality.

[15Adragon]

Sadly, you may be right.

Mad props to the Right wing smear machine on that one. Not an insult, I'm truly in awe of the ability of religiously motivated people to change the national political conversation into something entirely unrelated to reality.

You should be in awe of your own Dem's and their inability to stick together. Last time I checked they have huge majorities in the House and Senate. Pelosi really went too far and put the O administration in a tough spot.

Americans still love freedom and independence!

[JagFan]

Sadly, you may be right.

Mad props to the Right wing smear machine on that one. Not an insult, I'm truly in awe of the ability of religiously motivated people to change the national political conversation into something entirely unrelated to reality.

I would say the Dems have shot themselves in the foot more than anything else. Reid and Pelosi have managed to pi** off a lot of people all by themselves. They do Obama no favors with their comments and arrogance.

[Vols4Ever]

Someone please explain to me how we don't already have at least SOME form of socialized medicine already (Medicare, Medicaid, etc). Someone also please explain how the 'public option' would not be an expansion of government run health care as phoenix alleges?

I laugh at the groaning about religiously motivated people ---- doesn't the religion of secular humanism drive the left?

I would be willing to seriously consider some compromise on the health bill if provisions allowing access to people's personal finance were removed, and coverage extensions to cover illegal aliens were removed. But the 'public option' is not an item that can be compromised on.

We need a massive decentralization of power in the government. Government does NOT have the solution to our problems. Government is the problem. Expanding the Federal Government's role in health care simply grows the bureaucracy.

"The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy."
— Thomas Jefferson

[the_phoenix612]

Someone please explain to me how we don't already have at least SOME form of socialized medicine alreadywe do (Medicare, Medicaid, etc). Someone also please explain how the 'public option' would not be an expansion of government run health care as phoenix alleges?

I laugh at the groaning about religiously motivated people ---- doesn't the religion of secular humanism drive the left?no

I would be willing to seriously consider some compromise on the health bill if provisions allowing access to people's personal finance were removed, and coverage extensions to cover illegal aliens were removed. But the 'public option' is not an item that can be compromised on.

We need a massive decentralization of power in the government. Government does NOT have the solution to our problems. Government is the problem. Expanding the Federal Government's role in health care simply grows the bureaucracy. Unfortunately, this view runs contrary to nearly a hundred years of public policy, domestic and foreign.

"The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy."
— Thomas Jefferson

..

[the_phoenix612]

You should be in awe of your own Dem's and their inability to stick together. Last time I checked they have huge majorities in the House and Senate. Pelosi really went too far and put the O administration in a tough spot.

Americans still love freedom and independence!

The frustrating thing, and the great thing, about the Democratic party is that it is so diverse. Wings of the party are threatening to vote against a health care bill if it does NOT have a public option.

The GOP does not have this problem, to put it lightly. They are rapidly becoming older, whiter, more christian, and more southern.

[Warbird]

The frustrating thing, and the great thing, about the Democratic party is that it is so diverse. Wings of the party are threatening to vote against a health care bill if it does NOT have a public option.

The GOP does not have this problem, to put it lightly. They are rapidly becoming older, whiter, more christian, and more southern.

Tell that to Marco Rubio.

[drgnbkr]

The frustrating thing, and the great thing, about the Democratic party is that it is so diverse. Wings of the party are threatening to vote against a health care bill if it does NOT have a public option.

The GOP does not have this problem, to put it lightly. They are rapidly becoming older, whiter, more christian, and more southern.

The reason the bill is struggling is that the public has made it clear it does not want any part of a public option. The politicians see this very clearly and even obama has said it will be removed. Whatever you think of the GOP, conservative ideals are now the viewpoint the majority of the population in all 50 states agree with. We have a clash at present between who was elected, what they think was their mandate, and what the public at large thinks. You can call it a "right wing smear machine" if you like, but it isn't accurate.

[the_phoenix612]

The reason the bill is struggling is that the public has made it clear it does not want any part of a public option. The politicians see this very clearly and even obama has said it will be removed. Whatever you think of the GOP, conservative ideals are now the viewpoint the majority of the population in all 50 states agree with. We have a clash at present between who was elected, what they think was their mandate, and what the public at large thinks. You can call it a "right wing smear machine" if you like, but it isn't accurate.

That is just not true. I'm sorry.

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=5ba17aa2-f1b9-4445-a6b8-62b9d1ba8693
http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2009062515/new-poll-shows-tremendous-support-public-health-care-option
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/278585
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/19/opinion/polls/main5098517.shtml

Most recent polling shows 77% of Americans find it either "Extremely Important" or "Quite Important" to "give people a choice of both a public plan administered by the federal government and a private plan for their health insurance"

[15Adragon]

The frustrating thing, and the great thing, about the Democratic party is that it is so diverse. Wings of the party are threatening to vote against a health care bill if it does NOT have a public option.

The GOP does not have this problem, to put it lightly. They are rapidly becoming older, whiter, more christian, and more southern.

You left off ...and clinging to their 2nd amendment rights. ;):cool::eek:

Seriously, lets look at a few the Dems Senate chairpersons....

Reid - Leader
Leahy - Judiciary
Kerry - Foreign Relations
Conrad - Budget
Lieberman - Homeland Sec.
Kennedy (deceased) - Health, Ed
Levin - Armed forces
Rockefeller - Commerce
Schumer - Rules
Binghaman - Energy
Dodd - Banking (and mortgage discounts)
Baucas - Finance
Kohl - Aging
Byrd - just gave up his appropriations committee chair last year because he is 91 and can't even make it to the Senate

It looks like the ultimate good ole boys club to me.

[drgnbkr]

Nm

[drgnbkr]

That is just not true. I'm sorry.

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=5ba17aa2-f1b9-4445-a6b8-62b9d1ba8693
http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2009062515/new-poll-shows-tremendous-support-public-health-care-option
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/278585
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/19/opinion/polls/main5098517.shtml

Most recent polling shows 77% of Americans find it either "Extremely Important" or "Quite Important" to "give people a choice of both a public plan administered by the federal government and a private plan for their health insurance"

I'm sorry phoenix...just look around the real world you live in and open your eyes and ears..you may very well learn more than your polls are showing you...wow!

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0909/26672.html

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125176363081674373.html

[the_phoenix612]

I'm sorry phoenix...just look around the real world you live in and open your eyes and ears..you may very well learn more than your polls are showing you...wow!

Aren't you supposed to be smart?

The microcosm of Southlake is a really really sh*tty one to judge the mood of the nation on. THAT is why polls exist, to show the rest of the picture.

[slcdragonfan]

Didn't really take that long for the American people to reject the liberal Socialist Democrat Party philosophy did it.

Now America needs to vote that way in 2010.:cool:

Let's see what the alternate choice is.

[Pinion]

They same socialist agenda will be voted in again because the same bunch of people that have no idea whom or what they're really voting for will be tricked into doing it again.

Speaking of the socialist agenda. Did you hear about how Obama is going to be broadcast into public schools all over the country (k-6) next week? I heard the talking heads discussing it on the radio this morning. I was gaming so I didnt listen to the whole bit.

But that's just scarey. I think it's a bad idea to pipe the pres in to young kids so they can be indoctrinated for the socialist agenda.

[b756561]

Last I saw, he was at 46% and sinking.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

Even the always liberal CNN/Opinion Research poll has him at a low of 53%
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/09/01/cnn-poll-independents-disapprove-of-obama/

[JagFan]

They same socialist agenda will be voted in again because the same bunch of people that have no idea whom or what they're really voting for will be tricked into doing it again.

Speaking of the socialist agenda. Did you hear about how Obama is going to be broadcast into public schools all over the country (k-6) next week? I heard the talking heads discussing it on the radio this morning. I was gaming so I didnt listen to the whole bit.

But that's just scarey. I think it's a bad idea to pipe the pres in to young kids so they can be indoctrinated for the socialist agenda.

That he is. http://www.ed.gov/admins/lead/academic/bts.html
There is also instructions for teachers on the right side of the article. K-6th grade and 7-12th grade. I called my son's middle school and asked if they were showing it. They said not during school because it will be on during lunch. The Lewisville ISD will have it available on its website www.lisd.net so parents can view it with their children if they choose. I was going to go to the school and watch with my son's class so I would know what was being said. But now I can watch with him at home. Good choice by the school district. If you want to make my middle schooler angry try interfering with lunch when he has been to school since 7:00am for football practice. By lunch time at 12:30 he is starving.

I have decided I will withhold opinions until I see and read what Obama has to say to our school children. More interesting to me is the instructions to the teachers. I will post my thoughts on Wednesday.

[HebronHawk]

That he is. http://www.ed.gov/admins/lead/academic/bts.html
There is also instructions for teachers on the right side of the article. K-6th grade and 7-12th grade. I called my son's middle school and asked if they were showing it. They said not during school because it will be on during lunch. The Lewisville ISD will have it available on its website www.lisd.net so parents can view it with their children if they choose. I was going to go to the school and watch with my son's class so I would know what was being said. But now I can watch with him at home. Good choice by the school district. If you want to make my middle schooler angry try interfering with lunch when he has been to school since 7:00am for football practice. By lunch time at 12:30 he is starving.

I have decided I will withhold opinions until I see and read what Obama has to say to our school children. More interesting to me is the instructions to the teachers. I will post my thoughts on Wednesday.

It broadcasts over closed circuit Channel One which the Lewisville ISD always shows during the lunch period. Channel One is a great liberal indoctrination tool and has been for a long time.

[HebronHawk]

I would also note that the Socialist Democrats did not handle their recess town hall meetings well.

The tea parties were ready for them and You Tube is full of videos of Dem politicians trying to avoid their constituents. Also the thugs from SEIU (a union) do not make the Healthcare for America folks look good.

Fortunately for the Dems, media did not broadcast much of the townhall meetings on the news. Unfortunately for the Dems, You Tube, Facebook and Twitter exist and has spread this information everywhere.

[JagFan]

It broadcasts over closed circuit Channel One which the Lewisville ISD always shows during the lunch period. Channel One is a great liberal indoctrination tool and has been for a long time.

The vice principle told me this morning that it would not be shown during school. That LISD would pot it to the website for people to view if they want to.

Interesting. I might just bring lunch to my child.

[GoOwls]

Aren't you supposed to be smart?

The microcosm of Southlake is a really really sh*tty one to judge the mood of the nation on. THAT is why polls exist, to show the rest of the picture.

Well, then, the microcosm of small business people and middle class to lower middle class to upper lower class whites, hispanics, and blacks that make up the greater part of Garland is, and the basis of the Democratic party, I might add, is a pretty sh*tty microcosm also....even though it is diametrically opposed to Southlake, racially and fianacially.....nice point, phoenix...and nice phail.

I have mucho problems finding anyone who fits the Democratic voter in 2008 who supports the thing...sorry.

[HebronHawk]

Obama didn't win Texas, McCain did although Obama did win sections of Texas like Dallas, Austin, Houston and San Antonio for example.

Since 95% of the African American vote went to Obama, think of all of the places in Texas where that population is concentrated.

[GoOwls]

Obama didn't win Texas, McCain did although Obama did win sections of Texas like Dallas, Austin, Houston and San Antonio for example.

Since 95% of the African American vote went to Obama, think of all of the places in Texas where that population is concentrated.

I work with middle class black people who voted for Obama but don't support the plan because it threatens their union won health plan.....even they, who support Obama come hell or high water, are running for cover on this one...one you get a semblance of success, you try to keep it....usually.

[drgnbkr]

The vice principle told me this morning that it would not be shown during school. That LISD would pot it to the website for people to view if they want to.

Interesting. I might just bring lunch to my child.

Thank goodness a lot of the districts are opting out...Check out the story out of Utah at the link...http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13249171?_requestid=5883011

[mad_fan]

**** hobama...

[JagFan]

Thank goodness a lot of the districts are opting out...Check out the story out of Utah at the link...http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13249171?_requestid=5883011

From the LISD website

Sept. 8 - President Obama's address to students
In order to not interrupt instructional learning, the District will not be participating in President Obama’s live broadcast on Sept. 8. However, once the speech has been archived, a link will be provided on the District Web site to allow students and their families to access the speech at home.

http://www.lisd.net/

I think the Department of Education might be in for a surprise that all schools are not showing this. I will watch and if it stays with personal responsibility and getting an education (like they say) then I will have my son watch. Any politics involved he will not. I am trying to keep an open mind and wait until I see it to comment.

[mad_fan]

From the LISD website

Sept. 8 - President Obama's address to students
In order to not interrupt instructional learning, the District will not be participating in President Obama’s live broadcast on Sept. 8. However, once the speech has been archived, a link will be provided on the District Web site to allow students and their families to access the speech at home.

http://www.lisd.net/

I think the Department of Education might be in for a surprise that all schools are not showing this. I will watch and if it stays with personal responsibility and getting an education (like they say) then I will have my son watch. Any politics involved he will not. I am trying to keep an open mind and wait until I see it to comment.


There is no HOPE for the children of that district...:rolleyes:

[JagFan]

There is no HOPE for the children of that district...:rolleyes:

There wasn't any hope before we didn't vote for him:eek:

[mad_fan]

There wasn't any hope before we didn't vote for him:eek:

The situation in your district has clearly become one of unhopelessness...

GW...
:)

[slorch]

They same socialist agenda will be voted in again because the same bunch of people that have no idea whom or what they're really voting for will be tricked into doing it again.

Speaking of the socialist agenda. Did you hear about how Obama is going to be broadcast into public schools all over the country (k-6) next week? I heard the talking heads discussing it on the radio this morning. I was gaming so I didnt listen to the whole bit.

But that's just scarey. I think it's a bad idea to pipe the pres in to young kids so they can be indoctrinated for the socialist agenda.

yeah, because kids give credence to everything they hear at school...:rolleyes::D

As always, it comes down to what the kid is exposed to in life, he will depend on his base values to steer him in the right direction. i'm willing to bet the POTUS's little endoctrination attempt will have about ZERO% impact on my kids' beliefs.

Carry on, dude( BHO, not Pinion.)

[pied]

Just a point of note. it astounds me that the political divide has become so larger that parents ahve talked about having their kids not go to school because they will here the President of the united States give a sppech to them.

Speaks volumes.

[JagFan]

Just a point of note. it astounds me that the political divide has become so larger that parents ahve talked about having their kids not go to school because they will here the President of the united States give a sppech to them.

Speaks volumes.

I would not pull my children from school but would be there to watch with them.

Heard part of the ad in the speech and I am having a hard time with pledging my service to Obama or any President. Pledge to the country and the constitution but not to an individual.

Again, I am trying to wait until I see the whole thing. Not impressed with the parts that have been leaked.

[pied]

I would not pull my children from school but would be there to watch with them.

Heard part of the ad in the speech and I am having a hard time with pledging my service to Obama or any President. Pledge to the country and the constitution but not to an individual.

Again, I am trying to wait until I see the whole thing. Not impressed with the parts that have been leaked.


Haven't seen that at all. Curious if you could link it. Not mentioned in the articles I ahve read.

A groundswell of parent opposition to President Barack Obama's speech next week to students on the importance of education has forced many North Texas school districts to question whether to air it live in classrooms.

Obama announced the speech weeks ago, but opposition and concerns spread rapidly Wednesday morning through conservative social networking Web sites and radio talk shows.

By midday, local school districts say, they were inundated with hundreds of phone calls from parents urging them to not show Obama's speech at school.

Some parents threatened to keep their children home from school if the video was aired.

"We had no idea that there would be a public outcry," said Laura Jobe, a Mesquite ISD spokeswoman. "It caught us by surprise."

Cody Cunningham of the McKinney ISD said: "We rarely hear of parents pulling children out of history or government classes where they're studying the politics or historical significance of a previous president."

The White House said earlier that the speech – to be shown on C-SPAN and educational stations – would focus on "the importance of education, the importance of staying in school, how we want to improve our education system and why it's so important for the country."

Other presidents, including George H.W. Bush, have given similar speeches directly to students.

But some Dallas-area parents said Obama's speech amounts to partisan propaganda. His critics have been even harsher.

Jim Greer, chairman of the Florida Republican Party, said Tuesday that the speech used taxpayer dollars "to spread President Obama's socialist ideology."

The White House said Tuesday that Obama hopes his speech will inspire students and encourage them to set academic goals.

"It's not a policy speech," said White House spokesman Tommy Vietor. "It's a speech designed to encourage kids to stay in school, which I think is a nonpartisan goal."

...


Suggested lessons

Arne Duncan, Department of Education secretary, informed principals of the speech in a letter sent last week. He encouraged students to complete suggested lessons that go along with the speech.

One lesson plan for students in kindergarten through sixth grade suggests children write down what they would say to students if they were president. Another asks students to discuss, "Is President Obama inspiring you to do anything? Is he challenging you to do anything?"

...

Yet, parent Bill Hogsett said he figured half of the Frisco parents he knew would keep their children home from school Tuesday.

"It doesn't matter if it's a Republican or Democrat. We have a problem with the government intruding on our lives," said Hogsett, who has a 5-year-old son in kindergarten.

..


'Tool of indoctrination'

Obama's speech has ignited partisan passions among conservative groups, which accused him of injecting politics in the classroom.

Neal McCluskey, associate director of the Center for Educational Freedom at the conservative Cato Institute, said the lesson plans accompanying the speech are "troubling."

"Reasonable people can disagree" about Obama's policies, he said. "But they don't want their kids to be indoctrinated. This is potentially a tool of indoctrination."

Fred Moses, chairman of the Collin County Republican Party, said he had not heard anyone who was concerned about the speech.

"As long as the president is not talking about his agenda or policies, we all need to encourage our kids to do better," Moses said.

Barb Walters, president of the Texas Democratic Women of Collin County, contended the outrage is mostly manufactured.

"Emotions are running so high in politics," she said. "People are just shoving signs and fists into people's faces these days. Whatever happened to civil discourse?"

Larry J. Sabato, director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia, said he doubted that Obama would risk criticism by giving a political speech.

"If this is simply a pep talk by the president of the United States to schoolkids," Sabato said, "to me that is in the category of mother and apple pie and the flag."

Staff writers Todd J. Gillman, Sam Hodges, Jessica Meyers, Matt Peterson and Valerie Wigglesworth contributed to this report.

OBAMA'S EDUCATION EFFORTS
President Barack Obama's nationally televised address to students Tuesday is part of what the White House calls a continuation of his efforts to use the bully pulpit to promote the value of education. Among other efforts:

•The Department of Education has sent classroom materials to the nation's schools to facilitate discussion of the president's message.

•The administration has enlisted top NASCAR drivers to tape public service announcements touting the importance of school.

•Since taking office, Obama has pushed hard on his goal to reduce the high school dropout rate and increase the number of students who attend and graduate from college.

•The $787 billion economic stimulus plan included more than $100 billion for education, and Obama has frequently called on teachers and parents to help students maximize their educational opportunities.


http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/090309dnmetobamaschools.3ca94f4.html

[JagFan]

Pied, Can't find a link. Mark Davis was playing the I pledge ad with all the stars pledging to do certain things. Not flipping people off that cut him off in traffic, help the environment, buy a hybrid car, not use plastic bags at at the grocery store. The ones that pledge service to President Obama the person is were the line gets a little fuzzy. Again, I will watch it on the LISD website and see the whole thing before I say it is out of line. It just gives me enough pause to want to watch the whole thing.

And no my wanting to be there with my child when he sees it is not just an Obama thing. My husband and I have and are involved in everything our children have done and are doing. This is no different.

[Firebird]

Presidents and other political figures have a long history of making PR appearances in classrooms, the main difference here is the scale and medium. Very few of them are so politically inept as to talk partisan politics during these dog and pony shows, given Obama's acumen, I would be shocked if he chose that method of political suicide. Based on what is being released from the WH, the only potential political minefield would be to talk about "how we want to improve our education system."

Who produced the I Pledge ad? Was that something that came out of the WH? Serious question, I can't find the answer.

[Firebird]

Never mind, I found out that the ad that JagFan is referring to was written, directed, and produced by Demi Moore. A few questions spring to mind:

What does this ad in question have to do with the proposed speech?
Is this ad going to be shown as part of the proposed speech programming?
Is there a chance that the people on the radio are intentionally trying to conflate the two?

[JagFan]

Never mind, I found out that the ad that JagFan is referring to was written, directed, and produced by Demi Moore. A few questions spring to mind:

What does this ad in question have to do with the proposed speech?
Is this ad going to be shown as part of the proposed speech programming?
Is there a chance that the people on the radio are intentionally trying to conflate the two?

I don't know what the ad has to do with the speech, it was said that it would be shown on Tuesday as well. Again, I am waiting to see the whole thing before reaching any conclusions.

Yes, there is a chance that Mark Davis is trying to pass his opinion before it is shown. That is why I would not have said anything except he ran the ad and did not just do a commentary. I heard Demi say she pledged to serve Obama. Now again, I think if we (both sides)want any credibility then we should wait to see it first.

[pied]

I don't know what the ad has to do with the speech, it was said that it would be shown on Tuesday as well. Again, I am waiting to see the whole thing before reaching any conclusions.

1. Yes, there is a chance that Mark Davis is trying to pass his opinion before it is shown. That is why I would not have said anything except he ran the ad and did not just do a commentary. I heard Demi say she pledged to serve Obama. Now again, 2. I think if we (both sides)want any credibility then we should wait to see it first.

1. Shocking if it is true
2. Exactly why this is just startling to me.

Obviously many have reached the point where the only time they will respect the office of the President is when their guy/girl is in there.

[drgnbkr]

I don't know what the ad has to do with the speech, it was said that it would be shown on Tuesday as well. Again, I am waiting to see the whole thing before reaching any conclusions.

Yes, there is a chance that Mark Davis is trying to pass his opinion before it is shown. That is why I would not have said anything except he ran the ad and did not just do a commentary. I heard Demi say she pledged to serve Obama. Now again, I think if we (both sides)want any credibility then we should wait to see it first.

They already ran it in Salt Lake City and parents are upset..I think you can see it here:

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_13249171?source=most_viewed

[Firebird]

I don't know what the ad has to do with the speech, it was said that it would be shown on Tuesday as well. Again, I am waiting to see the whole thing before reaching any conclusions.

Yes, there is a chance that Mark Davis is trying to pass his opinion before it is shown. That is why I would not have said anything except he ran the ad and did not just do a commentary. I heard Demi say she pledged to serve Obama. Now again, I think if we (both sides)want any credibility then we should wait to see it first.

We need to work on writing in the active voice. Lots of people on both sides of the political debate make statements like "it's been said that..". Who said that the ad would be shown on Tuesday as well? The White House publicity guy? Mark Davis? The Flower Mound ISD spokesperson? "They" (one day I am going to find "them")?

The source makes a difference.

[Firebird]

They already ran it in Salt Lake City and parents are upset..I think you can see it here:

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_13249171?source=most_viewed

More of "them."

[pied]

They already ran it in Salt Lake City and parents are upset..I think you can see it here:

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_13249171?source=most_viewed

That appears to be a video that Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher put together prior to the innaguration. Why the SL schools would play that and confuse it with the address the President is giving, would give me more concern as a parent.

[JagFan]

1. Shocking if it is true
2. Exactly why this is just startling to me.

Obviously many have reached the point where the only time they will respect the office of the President is when their guy/girl is in there.

:confused: What are you talking about. I have stated many times, that I am not going to say this is great or this is bad until I watch it. And yes I would watch it with my child if a Rep. was in office. Just something I believe in doing. Don't look for conflict when it is not there.

[JagFan]

We need to work on writing in the active voice. Lots of people on both sides of the political debate make statements like "it's been said that..". Who said that the ad would be shown on Tuesday as well? The White House publicity guy? Mark Davis? The Flower Mound ISD spokesperson? "They" (one day I am going to find "them")?

The source makes a difference.

On the show I was listening to. Again before you get all hinky remember I have not said this is good or bad. I am waiting to see for myself. Something you and Pied should do as well before defending it and assuming I am going to dislike it becasue MArk Davis or any talking head does.

And it's Lewisville ISD.

[pied]

:confused: What are you talking about. I have stated many times, that I am not going to say this is great or this is bad until I watch it. And yes I would watch it with my child if a Rep. was in office. Just something I believe in doing. Don't look for conflict when it is not there.

It's shocking that Mark Davis may be trying to pass his opinion.

The second bullet was not directed at you. I am agreeing with you.

[pied]

On the show I was listening to. Again before you get all hinky remember I have not said this is good or bad. I am waiting to see for myself. Something you and Pied should do as well before defending it and assuming I am going to dislike it becasue MArk Davis or any talking head does.

And it's Lewisville ISD.


My astonishment is that there is a certain percentage of the population(not inluding you in there), that are teching their kids that respect for the office of the President of the US is party dependent.

How exactly do you explain to your kidnergartner/1st grader why they are not allowed to go to school?

[drgnbkr]

That appears to be a video that Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher put together prior to the innaguration. Why the SL schools would play that and confuse it with the address the President is giving, would give me more concern as a parent.

The pres hasn't made his speech yet...the two are not connected that I know of. Someone mentioned the demi moore thing so I posted it. It is being played in schools around the country also. Just pathetic propaganda that school kids shouldn't be exposed to is the point.

[JagFan]

My astonishment is that there is a certain percentage of the population(not inluding you in there), that are teching their kids that respect for the office of the President of the US is party dependent.

How exactly do you explain to your kidnergartner/1st grader why they are not allowed to go to school?

IMO you don't. If you are concerned then go and watch it with them. Mark Davis did say that there is some really good stuff about getting your education and personal responsibility. My advice is to watch with your child and point out the good stuff and discuss things you disagree with. Key word discuss.

Agree with the respect thing.

[JagFan]

The pres hasn't made his speech yet...the two are not connected that I know of. Someone mentioned the demi moore thing so I posted it. It is being played in schools around the country also. Just pathetic propaganda that school kids shouldn't be exposed to is the point.

The only connection I heard is what was heard on talk radio by Mark Davis (better bird?) and have no idea why they were connected except it was said they would be shown together. Could be wrong info, I will know on Tuesday.

[drgnbkr]

My astonishment is that there is a certain percentage of the population(not inluding you in there), that are teching their kids that respect for the office of the President of the US is party dependent.

How exactly do you explain to your kidnergartner/1st grader why they are not allowed to go to school?

What I have seen is a number of districts that are opting not to take up class time with it or offering it on a voluntary basis, during non school hours. I don't think it should be a surprise that there are many who are suspect of obama getting in front of school kids with some of his agenda. If past is prologue, he is proving to be way too radical for many and the polls are reflecting that...Not about respect..all about ideology.

[pied]

What I have seen is a number of districts that are opting not to take up class time with it or offering it on a voluntary basis, during non school hours. I don't think it should be a surprise that there are many who are suspect of obama getting in front of school kids with some of his agenda. If past is prologue, he is proving to be way too radical for many and the polls are reflecting that...Not about respect..all about ideology.

So ideology > respect for the office of the President?

[chhspantherfan]

So ideology > respect for the office of the President?


in this case, Yes. Or is one not entitled to one's opinion?

[pied]

in this case, Yes. Or is one not entitled to one's opinion?

Certainly, and I am allowed to be astounded, right?

The President of the United Staets of America wants to make a speech to the children of America abut the importance of their education.

There is a certain population that would rather keep their kids at home rather than have them hear this message. Yes, that astounds me.

[drgnbkr]

Certainly, and I am allowed to be astounded, right?

The President of the United Staets of America wants to make a speech to the children of America abut the importance of their education.

There is a certain population that would rather keep their kids at home rather than have them hear this message. Yes, that astounds me.

I am astounded that you don't get it. Politics is one thing but the agenda this guy has is not agreeable with a lot of us...I suppose it is with you, which is fine.

[pied]

I am astounded that you don't get it. Politics is one thing but the agenda this guy has is not agreeable with a lot of us...I suppose it is with you, which is fine.

How are his politics and agenda not the same thing?

What does that have to do with him wanting to adderss the kids about the importance of their education?

[Firebird]

On the show I was listening to. Again before you get all hinky remember I have not said this is good or bad. I am waiting to see for myself. Something you and Pied should do as well before defending it and assuming I am going to dislike it becasue MArk Davis or any talking head does.

And it's Lewisville ISD.

Just so we're clear, the WH is not advocating or even suggesting that the President's speech be shown in tandem with this advertisement, so if it WAS (and I am not saying it will be), it would be something that the individual ISD/school/teacher chose to do.

[drgnbkr]

How are his politics and agenda not the same thing?

What does that have to do with him wanting to adderss the kids about the importance of their education?

His politics are his agenda...you know the one an increasing number of voters are losing patience with? After listening carefully to what obama wants for the country, I for one am going to be very careful about what he is able to say to my kids..hence, my agreement with jag that we should monitor it closely by being with our kids to filter the politics out of it. You are naive if you think it is solely about the importance of education.

[pied]

His politics are his agenda...you know the one an increasing number of voters are losing patience with? After listening carefully to what obama wants for the country, I for one am going to be very careful about what he is able to say to my kids..hence, my agreement with jag that we should monitor it closely by being with our kids to filter the politics out of it. You are naive if you think it is solely about the importance of education.

What does Obama want for the country?

[drgnbkr]

What does Obama want for the country?

What do you want?

[15Adragon]

present

[pied]

What do you want?

Economic prosperity, National security, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Probably some more I could come up with.

[drgnbkr]

Economic prosperity, National security, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Probably some more I could come up with.

Considering his deficit is already higher than his predecessor's (who became a big govt / big spender) for his entire 8 years, number 1 looks shaky at best. Considering that he and his party did everything they could to thwart his predecessor in terms of national security, and is now trying to blame him, again, I don't like your chances with #2. Life? Government run health care? Liberty? Big government running everything seems to preclude liberty...good luck with the rest. I suppose that sums up why I don't like the idea of obama speaking directly to my kids unless I know what it is about.

[pied]

Considering his deficit is already higher than his predecessor's (who became a big govt / big spender) for his entire 8 years, number 1 looks shaky at best. Considering that he and his party did everything they could to thwart his predecessor in terms of national security, and is now trying to blame him, again, I don't like your chances with #2. Life? Government run health care? Liberty? Big government running everything seems to preclude liberty...good luck with the rest. I suppose that sums up why I don't like the idea of obama speaking directly to my kids unless I know what it is about.

Brilliant analysis.

[drgnbkr]

Brilliant analysis.

Thank you, just the facts....I suppose that you are hopeless...But hey, you get to have and hold on to your opinions!:p

[JagFan]

Just so we're clear, the WH is not advocating or even suggesting that the President's speech be shown in tandem with this advertisement, so if it WAS (and I am not saying it will be), it would be something that the individual ISD/school/teacher chose to do.

As stated I don't know what the WH is advacating with his speech except the list of classroom activities that the teachers are suggested to do. See previous post with link to the Department of Education. They are putting it out. And yes, that is part of his administration and are putting it out with his consent if he gave them his speech.

If they show this ad with the speech I will hold Obama accountable for it being shown if what is in it is true. Again not saying I know everything about the ad have not seen and am waiting until Tuesday. Kinda like the NY flyover someone at the WH knows what is going on.

[DrEdward]

So long as the President's speech is concerned with the value of an education and the importance of staying in school, there is no issue so far as I am concerned.

But this is an internet braodcast, isn't it? So there is no reason that the speech must be viewed at the inital time. It can be stored and viewed by parents, teachers, etc. and shown (or not) to the students at whatever time might be most convenient.

[JagFan]

So long as the President's speech is concerned with the value of an education and the importance of staying in school, there is no issue so far as I am concerned.

But this is an internet braodcast, isn't it? So there is no reason that the speech must be viewed at the inital time. It can be stored and viewed by parents, teachers, etc. and shown (or not) to the students at whatever time might be most convenient.

True. LISD is posting it on their website so parents, children, teachers, ect. can watch outside of school time.

[chhspantherfan]

our ISD is archiving it for later viewing. get more info at


http://www.ed.gov/admins/lead/academic/bts.html

[pied]

Thank you, just the facts....I suppose that you are hopeless...But hey, you get to have and hold on to your opinions!:p

Talent on loan from God.....

[drgnbkr]

Talent on loan from God.....

With half my brain tied behind my back...

[slorch]

Just a point of note. it astounds me that the political divide has become so larger that parents ahve talked about having their kids not go to school because they will here the President of the united States give a sppech to them.

Speaks volumes.

his position does not entitle him to indoctrinate my kid.

That being said, our boys will be at school.

I also don't have an issue with my kids watching the address.

If my kids ask opposing questions to the little agenda the teachers are supposed to follow, they had better not catch one ounce of flak over it.

Fair enough for all sides, IMO.

[ktCarl]

So long as the President's speech is concerned with the value of an education and the importance of staying in school, there is no issue so far as I am concerned. I agree with this.

But this is an internet braodcast, isn't it? So there is no reason that the speech must be viewed at the inital time. It can be stored and viewed by parents, teachers, etc. and shown (or not) to the students at whatever time might be most convenient. That would make it better. Maybe parents can be given a choice whether their kids watch the POS.

I agree with your first paragraph but is that all that will be presented by the POS? Below is what I'm hearing and reading about. We'll have to wait and see if it is true.

President Obama has asked that a message he delivers to students on September 8 be broadcast directly into America's classrooms. Ostensibly, he will talk about the importance of education – and yet he will talk about more than showing up for class on time and being prepared. He is expected to talk about HIS CHANGES to the challenges facing our country.

Many of us – as parents, taxpayers and regular Americans – have reason for concern. It appears to be nothing short of brainwashing our children. Perhaps the most frightening part: Teachers can extend student learning by having students write letters to themselves about what they can do to help the president. These would be collected and redistributed at an appropriate date by the teacher to make students accountable to their goals. Is this true?

We all need to speak out against this and his efforts to encourage students to determine what they can do to help Obama ... all in the disguise of encouraging children to do better in school. This is really a message directly to the educrat bureaucracy and also to parents via their children.

As a former White House Liaison to the U.S. Department of Education in the President Reagan Administration, I can say with certainty that this type of approach is an incredible over-reach. Public policy decisions are made by voters, and America's children should not be used to influence opinion or to sway parents – they simply should not be used!

Should the anti-ObamaCare, anti-Cap and Trade message be given equal time in the schools?

Perhaps we should consider this a major selling point for school choice. Government schools will be co-opted to promote government solutions. And neither work!

Maybe Obama is looking to raise his approval rating through school kids. :rolleyes:

[slorch]

So ideology > respect for the office of the President?

yeah.

we're not in the military, and he isn't the king. He's a politician.

[slorch]

Certainly, and I am allowed to be astounded, right?

The President of the United Staets of America wants to make a speech to the children of America abut the importance of their education.

There is a certain population that would rather keep their kids at home rather than have them hear this message. Yes, that astounds me.

If it was just a PSA about education, you really think folks would raise hell about it?

Well, yeah, some would, but don't act like this event is just about "focusing on education."

Obama had better watch out with this RESPONSIBILITY stuff. he might lose his political base...

[pied]

If it was just a PSA about education, you really think folks would raise hell about it?

Well, yeah, some would, but don't act like this event is just about "focusing on education."

Obama had better watch out with this RESPONSIBILITY stuff. he might lose his political base...



Yes, a page of it so far.

[slorch]

Yes, a page of it so far.

If you think that is all it is, the Obama Party has some **** for you to buy-off on...

[pied]

If you think that is all it is, the Obama Party has some **** for you to buy-off on...

super duper

[Firebird]

If it was just a PSA about education, you really think folks would raise hell about it?

Well, yeah, some would, but don't act like this event is just about "focusing on education."

Obama had better watch out with this RESPONSIBILITY stuff. he might lose his political base...

I think that Obama could sing God Bless America while stomping on Bin Laden's crumpled corpse and the crazypants right would raise hell about it.

[slorch]

I think that Obama could sing God Bless America while stomping on Bin Laden's crumpled corpse and the crazypants right would raise hell about it.

well, sitting in a church for twenty years and ignoring the preacher just makes a guy suspect when it comes to sincerity and truthfulness in my book.

Sorry...:o

[the_phoenix612]

I think that Obama could sing God Bless America while stomping on Bin Laden's crumpled corpse and the crazypants right would raise hell about it.

Terrorist foot bump?

[JBT]

CFISD is letting it be optional. Thankfully, now, my sister won't be forced to watch it. Sorry, the president doesn't need to give an entire speech just to tell my sister to do well, stay in school, etc etc... It's HER job and my parents job to make sure these things happen.

I do not support indoctrination and I honestly believe this national address to students is a form of it. Just my opinion.

Oh, and for those school districts who are making the speech mandatory - that's just a little ridiculous because if you make parents sign permission slips for their children to watch G-rated + movies, then there should be permission slips for a speech such as this. I don't care if it's from the president. Had I been alive during the first Bush's presidency, I wouldn't have supported his drug speech to students either.

[pied]

CFISD is letting it be optional. Thankfully, now, my sister won't be forced to watch it. Sorry, the president doesn't need to give an entire speech just to tell my sister to do well, stay in school, etc etc... It's HER job and my parents job to make sure these things happen.

I do not support indoctrination and I honestly believe this national address to students is a form of it. Just my opinion.

Oh, and for those school districts who are making the speech mandatory - that's just a little ridiculous because if you make parents sign permission slips for their children to watch G-rated + movies, then there should be permission slips for a speech such as this. I don't care if it's from the president. Had I been alive during the first Bush's presidency, I wouldn't have supported his drug speech to students either.

And we wonder what's wrong with the youth today.

[JBT]

And we wonder what's wrong with the youth today.

There's nothing wrong with me? I've done everything right in my life and if you knew me personally, you would know that too. I've been very successful in all aspects of my life. People can make decisions for themselves. My younger brother took a turn down the drug path despite seeing friends and family members suffer from those poor decisions and constant preaching against it. People are going to do what they want to do. Period.

[ktCarl]

I think that Obama could sing God Bless America while stomping on Bin Laden's crumpled corpse and the crazypants right would raise hell about it.

I think I would pay to see that.

[slorch]

I think I would pay to see that.

Unplug the telepromptor and see if you get the whole first verse...:rolleyes:

[JagFan]

I don't think a lot of the uproar is over his speech but the accompaning stuff. The local news reported this morning that they were changing the wording in some of the recommendations to teachers for K-6th grade. From writing What can I do to help the President to What can they do to acheive their short term and long term goals. I have no problem with the new version.

It was also reported that the text will be put out on Monday so parents can read it. Another good move.

[HebronHawk]

well, sitting in a church for twenty years and ignoring the preacher just makes a guy suspect when it comes to sincerity and truthfulness in my book.

Sorry...:o

What makes you think he ignored his preacher Wright. I don't.

[chhspantherfan]

I don't think a lot of the uproar is over his speech but the accompaning stuff. The local news reported this morning that they were changing the wording in some of the recommendations to teachers for K-6th grade. From writing What can I do to help the President to What can they do to acheive their short term and long term goals. I have no problem with the new version.

It was also reported that the text will be put out on Monday so parents can read it. Another good move.

studyguides posted

http://www.ed.gov/admins/lead/academic/bts.html

[Mong Hu]

I think that Obama could sing God Bless America while stomping on Bin Laden's crumpled corpse and the crazypants right would raise hell about it.

Yes and I think Obama could sing The Internationale (National Anthem of the USSR until 1944) while dancing on the exhumed remains of George Washington and the "crazypants" (What kind of description is that anyway? Are you weeweed up or something?:))left would still sing his praises.

[dragonsdaddy]

Yes and I think Obama could sing The Internationale (National Anthem of the USSR until 1944) while dancing on the exhumed remains of George Washington and the "crazypants" (What kind of description is that anyway? Are you weeweed up or something?:))left would still sing his praises.

equally accurate/likely. the fringes get all the headlines, because that sort of bizarre, "reality/idiocratic" behavior always has. everyone looks at the fire/car wreck. the problem is, the media plays it off as operant behavior, not aberrance.

[drgnbkr]

What makes you think he ignored his preacher Wright. I don't.

He had him marry he and the wife and baptized the kids...did he ignore him then? Doubtful.

[pied]

equally accurate/likely. the fringes get all the headlines, because that sort of bizarre, "reality/idiocratic" behavior always has. everyone looks at the fire/car wreck. the problem is, the media plays it off as operant behavior, not aberrance.

Valid point. The problem I have as a Republican, is that I see more and more people that I may agree with for the most part topically, falling into the fringe. Reading this thread, I would classify several posters as being in the fringe and in my opinion that population has taken over the Republican party recently.

It appears to me that it is no longer a party of ideals, but one of focused on hating the Main Stream Media, secular progressive, organic food eating, hybrid car driving, Socialist Democrats. There is no middle ground, it's either us or them. Now I am not young, and not that old, so perhaps it has always been that way and I am simply just now realizing this. I am also not saying the Democratic party is any better, or in any way shape or form my party, but the fringe is forcing me away from the Republican party.

[chhspantherfan]

Valid point. The problem I have as a Republican, is that I see more and more people that I may agree with for the most part topically, falling into the fringe. Reading this thread, I would classify several posters as being in the fringe and in my opinion that population has taken over the Republican party recently.

It appears to me that it is no longer a party of ideals, but one of focused on hating the Main Stream Media, secular progressive, organic food eating, hybrid car driving, Socialist Democrats. There is no middle ground, it's either us or them. Now I am not young, and not that old, so perhaps it has always been that way and I am simply just now realizing this. I am also not saying the Democratic party is any better, or in any way shape or form my party, but the fringe is forcing me away from the Republican party.

sure there is

[Firebird]

Valid point. The problem I have as a Republican, is that I see more and more people that I may agree with for the most part topically, falling into the fringe. Reading this thread, I would classify several posters as being in the fringe and in my opinion that population has taken over the Republican party recently.

It appears to me that it is no longer a party of ideals, but one of focused on hating the Main Stream Media, secular progressive, organic food eating, hybrid car driving, Socialist Democrats. There is no middle ground, it's either us or them. Now I am not young, and not that old, so perhaps it has always been that way and I am simply just now realizing this. I am also not saying the Democratic party is any better, or in any way shape or form my party, but the fringe is forcing me away from the Republican party.

You're not wrong. The inmates are in charge of the asylum. They've even progressed beyond hating politicians and the media into hating people who vote differently from them. The right is having a ball right now imagining Civil War and armed uprising scenarios. It would be scary, if it wasn't just a bunch of people talking on teh interwebs.

How the average right wing interweb commentator sees himself:

http://southdakotapolitics.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341c046f53ef010536fcfd93970c-800wi

The reality:

http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/images/lblackwell/2005/04/15/dont_worry_maam.jpg

[drgnbkr]

sure there is

I agree, and that middle ground is finding its voice as evidenced by the town hall meetings and the consistent results of the polls. Average Americans are expressing their opinions, to the shock of the media and libs.

[the_phoenix612]

You're not wrong. The inmates are in charge of the asylum. They've even progressed beyond hating politicians and the media into hating people who vote differently from them. The right is having a ball right now imagining Civil War and armed uprising scenarios. It would be scary, if it wasn't just a bunch of people talking on teh interwebs.

How the average right wing interweb commentator sees himself:

http://southdakotapolitics.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341c046f53ef010536fcfd93970c-800wi

The reality:

http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/images/lblackwell/2005/04/15/dont_worry_maam.jpg

[no homo]I love you, Bird.[/no homo]

I have started reading articles on freerepublic for sheer comedic value. Me and some friends share good belly laughs over stuff that goes down there.

[HebronHawk]

Valid point. The problem I have as a Republican, is that I see more and more people that I may agree with for the most part topically, falling into the fringe. Reading this thread, I would classify several posters as being in the fringe and in my opinion that population has taken over the Republican party recently.

It appears to me that it is no longer a party of ideals, but one of focused on hating the Main Stream Media, secular progressive, organic food eating, hybrid car driving, Socialist Democrats. There is no middle ground, it's either us or them. Now I am not young, and not that old, so perhaps it has always been that way and I am simply just now realizing this. I am also not saying the Democratic party is any better, or in any way shape or form my party, but the fringe is forcing me away from the Republican party.

To what?

[RedRage00]

You're not wrong. The inmates are in charge of the asylum. They've even progressed beyond hating politicians and the media into hating people who vote differently from them. The right is having a ball right now imagining Civil War and armed uprising scenarios. It would be scary, if it wasn't just a bunch of people talking on teh interwebs.

How the average right wing interweb commentator sees himself:

http://southdakotapolitics.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341c046f53ef010536fcfd93970c-800wi

The reality:

http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/images/lblackwell/2005/04/15/dont_worry_maam.jpg

I just laughed my @$$ off! :D