Nice read bout Texas & the Spread

[SLC93]

http://sports.espn.go.com/highschool/rise/football/news/story?id=4339959

Nothing ground breaking just alot of good references to the state.

[CCCSportsFan]

Very nice article and good read!

[cougmantx]

Good article...

but I have to say that I think the spread is one of the most boring offense around. SLC and others may have won championships with it but teams have also responded to the spread and it is more difficult to win with than it use to be.

As far as I am concerned the spread s**ks. :D

[drgnbkr]

Good article...

but I have to say that I think the spread is one of the most boring offense around. SLC and others may have won championships with it but teams have also responded to the spread and it is more difficult to win with than it use to be.

As far as I am concerned the spread s**ks. :D

Must be flashbacks to 05!:D

[E-Vol-ution]

It's definitely not for everybody......then again neither was the wishbone, the I or veer. Truth is, most teams do not have the db's to cover a good spread team that can also run between the tackles.
It basically attacks a team that may be physically stronger's weak points just as a power team would exploit a smaller team by smashmouth in most instances.Good article...

but I have to say that I think the spread is one of the most boring offense around. SLC and others may have won championships with it but teams have also responded to the spread and it is more difficult to win with than it use to be.

As far as I am concerned the spread s**ks. :D

[cougmantx]

Must be flashbacks to 05!:D

Possibly...:mad:

But than I just have to think of 03, 07 and 08...and a smile returns...:D

Oh that right...y'all were nowhere in sight for 07 and 08...

We are still waiting for y'all at the show...when's that spready thang going to start work'n for you boys again...:eek:

:rolleyes:

[KT2000]

It's nice to watch when executed properly, but it seems there a lot of teams out there trying to spread it out that don't have the players to do it, and that's when it gets painful to watch.

The point in the article about the running game is true. I remember Dodge saying the staple play in the Dragon offense was a running play. Steve Spurrier said the same thing when he was at Florida.

[SLC93]

Good article...

but I have to say that I think the spread is one of the most boring offense around. SLC and others may have won championships with it but teams have also responded to the spread and it is more difficult to win with than it use to be.

As far as I am concerned the spread s**ks. :D

Tell us how you really feel, Coug.:D

I think the boredom you feel is from the dilution of a great offense. Too many programs are running it and many of them have no business doing so. The really good spreads aren't being stopped much more than they ever were, not saying they can't be 16-15 proved that.:mad::D

Boring is in the eye of the beholder, though, no? The veer will put you to sleep but is fun to watch when executed correctly. I'm an old wishbone guy and I'm still a sucker for the executed option.

[cougmantx]

Tell us how you really feel, Coug.:D

I think the boredom you feel is from the dilution of a great offense. Too many programs are running it and many of them have no business doing so. The really good spreads aren't being stopped much more than they ever were, not saying they can't be 16-15 proved that.:mad::D

Boring is in the eye of the beholder, though, no? The veer will put you to sleep but is fun to watch when executed correctly. I'm an old wishbone guy and I'm still a sucker for the executed option.

Dang, have to agree with you on that. I have read a couple of SLC posters that feel the same way about the power I...imagine that...:eek:

Seriously, the spread gives me heart burn when a team that executes it as well as SLC does.

Just gotta get a few jabs in there...all in fun! :notworthy

[drgnbkr]

Possibly...:mad:

But than I just have to think of 03, 07 and 08...and a smile returns...:D

Oh that right...y'all were nowhere in sight for 07 and 08...

We are still waiting for y'all at the show...when's that spready thang going to start work'n for you boys again...:eek:

:rolleyes:

We missed you in 06 too! I guess we need a rubber game to remind you of the pain a good spread can bring! :D I hope we get it this year, as it is fun to get the red and green together just prior to Christmas...We can both agree on that can't we?

[SLC93]

It's nice to watch when executed properly, but it seems there a lot of teams out there trying to spread it out that don't have the players to do it, and that's when it gets painful to watch.

The point in the article about the running game is true. I remember Dodge saying the staple play in the Dragon offense was a running play. Steve Spurrier said the same thing when he was at Florida.

Folks only remember the passing but the ratio of run/pass under Dodge was incredibly close to 50/50. The key is an effective running game and a passing game that can execute the 14-20 yard routes in it's sleep. The misconception is that the spread about the deep passing game. The best ones can hit deep but the mid range game is what makes it all go, imo.

[SLC93]

Dang, have to agree with you on that. I have read a couple of SLC posters that feel the same way about the power I...imagine that...:eek:

Seriously, the spread gives me heart burn when a team that executes it as well as SLC does.

Just gotta get a few jabs in there...all in fun! :notworthy

Absolutely and no worries!:D

[E-Vol-ution]

Good post.
Folks only remember the passing but the ratio of run/pass under Dodge was incredibly close to 50/50. The key is an effective running game and a passing game that can execute the 14-20 yard routes in it's sleep. The misconception is that the spread about the deep passing game. The best ones can hit deep but the mid range game is what makes it all go, imo.

[cougmantx]

We missed you in 06 too! I guess we need a rubber game to remind you of the pain a good spread can bring! :D I hope we get it this year, as it is fun to get the red and green together just prior to Christmas...We can both agree on that can't we?

Oh yeah baby...bring your ugly selves to the show and we will see...:D

I agree, a red and green christmas is the great...:notworthy

Especially this year...team of the decade baby...:eek:

[cougmantx]

Folks only remember the passing but the ratio of run/pass under Dodge was incredibly close to 50/50. The key is an effective running game and a passing game that can execute the 14-20 yard routes in it's sleep. The misconception is that the spread about the deep passing game. The best ones can hit deep but the mid range game is what makes it all go, imo.

I agree. I was talking to a Katy fan last night and we were talking about this same thing. Those little dinks and dunks of 10-15 yards where defensive back field is trying to keep the offense in front of them drives me nuts. It's like death by a thousand cuts...:D

[KT2000]

Folks only remember the passing but the ratio of run/pass under Dodge was incredibly close to 50/50. The key is an effective running game and a passing game that can execute the 14-20 yard routes in it's sleep. The misconception is that the spread about the deep passing game. The best ones can hit deep but the mid range game is what makes it all go, imo.

The balance is why I enjoy watching the good spread teams. The Stephenville and Westlake teams of the 90s were my first real exposure to that kind of offense.

The 06 state game between yourselves and Westlake was a great display of two balanced offenses.

[cyfallsbooster2]

Must be flashbacks to 05!:D

And '06.:D

[cougmantx]

And '06.:D

06...what happened in 06...that year is real foggy for some reason...:eek:

Oh yeah, that was the year we got beat in regionals by some flash in the pan team that got their butt handed to them at state...

Your right...06 s**ked too...:eek::D

[SLC]

It's nice to watch when executed properly, but it seems there a lot of teams out there trying to spread it out that don't have the players to do it, and that's when it gets painful to watch.

The point in the article about the running game is true. I remember Dodge saying the staple play in the Dragon offense was a running play. Steve Spurrier said the same thing when he was at Florida.


If there's one thing I have to give Wasson credit for is that he is committed o running the ball no matter what...It would be nice if it didn't seem to involve the QB's as much, rather the RB's more, but he is fully committed to it. There is certainly a small, but better run to pass ratio with Wasson, then it was with Dodge.


It definately holds true in pro set and I formation teams with the play action feeding off a great running attack and the majority of the time with the spread, they pass to open the run, much like the west coast offenses do. There is no doubt that if you are having success running the ball from the spread, then you can pretty much open your playbook to anything working.

[dragonpants]

Possibly...:mad:

But than I just have to think of 03, 07 and 08...and a smile returns...:D

Oh that right...y'all were nowhere in sight for 07 and 08...

We are still waiting for y'all at the show...when's that spready thang going to start work'n for you boys again...:eek:

:rolleyes:

We are waiting until realignment so we can get put in weak district and region so we can walk our way to state. ;)

[SLC]

Folks only remember the passing but the ratio of run/pass under Dodge was incredibly close to 50/50. The key is an effective running game and a passing game that can execute the 14-20 yard routes in it's sleep. The misconception is that the spread about the deep passing game. The best ones can hit deep but the mid range game is what makes it all go, imo.


In fact that ratio was more run in the majority of the games...It appeared to be more pass because of the amount of yards and TD's the Carroll passing game put up, but it was nothing to see 37 runs and 30 passes in a game.

[E-Vol-ution]

That's it......once the QB sees the box getting stacked he attacks where the defense is not commited to. It is vital that your system groom QB's from an early age not just throwing the ball, but learning what his true function is in this type offense. Chances are there will be an epic fail when some guy thinks he can just say " I'm changing our offense to the spread", change formations and throw out a new playbook. It starts early and everyone has to buy in.
If there's one thing I have to give Wasson credit for is that he is committed o running the ball no matter what...It would be nice if it didn't seem to involve the QB's as much, rather the RB's more, but he is fully committed to it. There is certainly a small, but better run to pass ratio with Wasson, then it was with Dodge.


It definately holds true in pro set and I formation teams with the play action feeding off a great running attack and the majority of the time with the spread, they pass to open the run, much like the west coast offenses do. There is no doubt that if you are having success running the ball from the spread, then you can pretty much open your playbook to anything working.

[cougmantx]

We are waiting until realignment so we can get put in weak district and region so we can walk our way to state. ;)

I heard that y'all were getting so decrepit that y'all couldn't walk across the street anymore...:eek:

I think even Trinity is starting to feel sorry for your decrpiditude...:ninja:

I don't think this year is the year to count on any walks through in D2 for sure.

[SLCDad]

The point in the article about the running game is true. I remember Dodge saying the staple play in the Dragon offense was a running play. Steve Spurrier said the same thing when he was at Florida.

Dodge also noted that the spread was a lot like the wishbone in that both offenses got a lot of players involved.

Both the spread and the wishbone require the defense to cover a lot of different guys.

[drgnbkr]

I heard that y'all were getting so decrepit that y'all couldn't walk across the street anymore...:eek:

I think even Trinity is starting to feel sorry for your decrpiditude...:ninja:

I don't think this year is the year to count on any walks through in D2 for sure.

The Dragons have certainly never had any "walks" through the playoffs..D 2 is often where great teams, that would otherwise go deep, go to die...

[rodjohns]

Spread S***ks it is all about the Wing T baby!!!!

[SLC]

That's it......once the QB sees the box getting stacked he attacks where the defense is not commited to. It is vital that your system groom QB's from an early age not just throwing the ball, but learning what his true function is in this type offense. Chances are there will be an epic fail when some guy thinks he can just say " I'm changing our offense to the spread", change formations and throw out a new playbook. It starts early and everyone has to buy in.



Some good points there Evol.


Thats one of the reasons our QB's have been so deadly in this offense..Coach Dodge knew what makes the spread offense go is a great passer, but equally a great decision maker as well. Its inherent on the QB to make good decisions with the ball...limit turnovers, look for holes, take what the defense will give you, run if the pass isnt open.


And no doubt the program has to buy into it, thats why you seen Wasson and Dodge comment on the sysytem being nurtured from the youths, through Jr. High and up to Varsity.

Carroll is one of the masters at the spread, because they started the look to the sideline for the play routine...it allows the QB to focus on making the play and not have to try and fully read the defense. The coach reads the defense and either audibles or keeps the same play...or many times, makes the defense think they've changed a play, but in reality it remained the same. And as the QB comes up through the system, they become more comfortbale reading defenses and in effect they become the offensive coordinator.

A great majority of the run to pass differential is because the spread is designed so that even when the RB isnt being called on to carry the ball, the QB is the RB...If the spread isolated just a RB to carry the ball, you wouldn't see near the run/pass ratio...it would be heavialy weighted in favor of the pass, which you see in mores instances of the Ennis version of the spread or more recently,the Lake Travis version, which is in effect the Stephenville version...And all 3 of those teams are highly successful with their styles, but you tend to see shootouts with those styles and that isnt normally the case with Carroll's and its directly tied the the running game.

[KT2000]

If there's one thing I have to give Wasson credit for is that he is committed o running the ball no matter what...It would be nice if it didn't seem to involve the QB's as much, rather the RB's more, but he is fully committed to it.

I thought Smithson Valley ran the QB sneak a lot until I saw Carroll last year. Wow. I thought Piland must have upset the coach. :D

[SLC]

I thought Smithson Valley ran the QB sneak a lot until I saw Carroll last year. Wow. I thought Piland must have upset the coach. :D



Tell me about it...I wanted to throw up evertime I saw David make a run for it and we had Avers back there...Ugghh. 3 steps back and run, 3 steps back and.....nevermind.


That was a direct result of a total lack of confidence in David's throwing abilities (that and throwing on the crown at Texas Stadium against a pretty decent Chill defense) and feeling more confident in his feet.


But your right, if he didn't seem to just give him punishment with it, it sure looked like Hal was doing that.:D

[SLC93]

Dodge also noted that the spread was a lot like the wishbone in that both offenses got a lot of players involved.

Both the spread and the wishbone require the defense to cover a lot of different guys.

Fair analogy. The spread is an inverted spread with all the playmakers stacked in the backfield.

[SLC93]

Thats one of the reasons our QB's have been so deadly in this offense..Coach Dodge knew what makes the spread offense go is a great passer, but equally a great decision maker as well. Its inherent on the QB to make good decisions with the ball...limit turnovers, look for holes, take what the defense will give you, run if the pass isnt open.




This where many programs that run the spread go wrong and why we see so many spreads that struggle or bore us to death. Too many programs simply put their best athlete at the qb in a spread and leave it at that. As a result the offense never fully develops and is completely ill equipped to take full advantage of the defense. Now if your best athlete also is your best mind and can throw it a little, that is another story. Unfortunately, we don't see that alot.

[SLC93]

I thought Smithson Valley ran the QB sneak a lot until I saw Carroll last year. Wow. I thought Piland must have upset the coach. :D

I think there are several t things at play there. One Wasson doesn't have Luna or Newton in the backfield. That's kinda huge. Avers hasn't been utilized enough, imo, but he is also injury prone and has been unavailable for a variety of reasons. As a result, we've relied too much on the qb legs lately. The trouble with that is those qb legs, however talented, are nowhere near the class of Dodge's or Daniel's or Wasson's, though Piland has exceptional feet. As it applies specifically to DP, he was inexperienced and playing to hi strength. He has a live arm but wasn't much for timing,accuracy or feel. As a result we became very stale on offense.

[slcdragonfan]

I thought Smithson Valley ran the QB sneak a lot until I saw Carroll last year. Wow. I thought Piland must have upset the coach. :D

Not sure what was up with that, but it was actually a sticking point for me. Avers can run the ball, but we kept with the QB keeper so often.....Hebron game....

That is probably where a lot of the 'grumping' comes from amongst our ranks.

[slcdragonfan]

I think there are several t things at play there. One Wasson doesn't have Luna or Newton in the backfield. That's kinda huge. Avers hasn't been utilized enough, imo, but he is also injury prone and has been unavailable for a variety of reasons. As a result, we've relied too much on the qb legs lately. The trouble with that is those qb legs, however talented, are nowhere near the class of Dodge's or Daniel's or Wasson's, though Piland has exceptional feet. As it applies specifically to DP, he was inexperienced and playing to hi strength. He has a live arm but wasn't much for timing,accuracy or feel. As a result we became very stale on offense.

That pretty much nails it as I see it. Not sure of the reasons why for Avers, I thought he was ready and rippin' 'em up in the Hebron game, but there were issues last year.

to be successful this year, our RB MUST be utilized more. Even for the drop pass out of the backfield. Get Avers in space, he has moves...

[SLC]

That pretty much nails it as I see it. Not sure of the reasons why for Avers, I thought he was ready and rippin' 'em up in the Hebron game, but there were issues last year.

to be successful this year, our RB MUST be utilized more. Even for the drop pass out of the backfield. Get Avers in space, he has moves...



No worries on this season....Avers and Stevenson will be used quite a bit and I fully expect to see the 2 back, 3 receiver set we seen late last season.

[crunked9]

There are different types of spread O.

There is one where you have burners and a QB with a rocket arm! AKA SLC 05

There is one where you have two great runners in the back field and very good WR's. AKA SLC 04 and 06

There is one where you have a good mix of WR's (1 with Hieght, 1 with great routes and hands, and 1 with speed which is more like an Rb) and a smart and quick Qb. AKA the slc 02 team

[dragonsdaddy]

There are different types of spread O.

There is one where you have burners and a QB with a rocket arm! AKA SLC 05

There is one where you have two great runners in the back field and very good WR's. AKA SLC 04 and 06

There is one where you have a good mix of WR's (1 with Hieght, 1 with great routes and hands, and 2 with speed which is more like an Rb) and a smart and quick Qb. AKA the slc 02 team

fify. incher did have 50+ rec after all.

[twcpfan1]

Hey SLC93:

For the 23rd time.

It's not only boring. It's borderline illegal :laugh

[drgnbkr]

Hey SLC93:

For the 23rd time.

It's not only boring. It's borderline illegal :laugh

Scoring too many points?:D

[dragonsdaddy]

Hey SLC93:

For the 23rd time.

It's not only boring. It's borderline illegal :laugh

using the whole field has never been illegal. and the cowboys proved for years that moving on the los by the oline is ok, until they put a hand on the ground, that is.

[twcpfan1]

using the whole field has never been illegal. and the cowboys proved for years that moving on the los by the oline is ok, until they put a hand on the ground, that is.

Sure they can move all they want until they're 'set'. I guess my problem is you don't have to put a hand on the ground to be 'set'. So they're really having it both ways.

Apart from that, it's just plain ugly when it's not working. Saw it twice last year. Wiley had no clue what to do against the Katy D and they did not have a plan b to go to it would seem. To a lesser extent, the TWHS loss to Lufkin. They get a pass because it's their first year running the spread.

[dragonsdaddy]

Sure they can move all they want until they're 'set'. I guess my problem is you don't have to put a hand on the ground to be 'set'. So they're really having it both ways.

Apart from that, it's just plain ugly when it's not working. Saw it twice last year. Wiley had no clue what to do against the Katy D and they did not have a plan b to go to it would seem. To a lesser extent, the TWHS loss to Lufkin. They get a pass because it's their first year running the spread.

i agree that fb refs make a mistake every now and then, but on every spread o snap for the last 6 years. i'm not seeing it.

[twcpfan1]

i agree that fb refs make a mistake every now and then, but on every spread o snap for the last 6 years. i'm not seeing it.

Don't get me wrong. It is officiated correctly according to the rules. I just think they should change the rule.

[dragonsdaddy]

Don't get me wrong. It is officiated correctly according to the rules. I just think they should change the rule.

that was always plano's defensive strategy back in my day. if you can't stop them, parlay for a rule change making their offense illegal. i wouldn't hold my breath.

[twcpfan1]

that was always plano's defensive strategy back in my day. if you can't stop them, parlay for a rule change making their offense illegal. i wouldn't hold my breath.

Not sure if a rule change in this case would be particularly advantageous to the opposing defense. But it would infinitely be less annoying for the spectators without all that head and shoulder turning towards the sideline for the latest play call.

[cougmantx]

Spread is boring...and s**ks...there I said it again...:D

[Kat-na-hat]

If Allen were to run the spread would they call it the spread eagle? :)

[SLC]

If Allen were to run the spread would they call it the spread eagle? :)


They do run the spread and they do not call it the spread eagle.:D

[dragonsdaddy]

Spread is boring...and s**ks...there I said it again...:D

saying an opinion twice while redundant, is not automatically wrong.






















just in this case.

[SLC93]

Hey SLC93:

For the 23rd time.

It's not only boring. It's borderline illegal :laugh

We talking about a lathered up Hope Sole?:D

[SLC93]

If Allen were to run the spread would they call it the spread eagle? :)

No but they've spread 'em for us quite a bit over the years.:eek::D

[Kat-na-hat]

No but they've spread 'em for us quite a bit over the years.:eek::D

:notworthy:notworthy:eek:

[SLC]

No but they've spread 'em for us quite a bit over the years.:eek::D




Like this day, in 2006.:D


http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/4682/061216ns16carrolld.jpg

[farmerfan]

Like this day, in 2006.:D


http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/4682/061216ns16carrolld.jpg

Look at that pic and you can see the Carroll crowd had extended around the corner there in the north endzone at Tx Stadium. I know it had in the south endzone as well.
It just looks as if Coach Dodge is saying hello Tom, this sure has been fun. I'm going to miss it and Coach Westerberg has the look of Thank GOD you're gone :D

[SLC]

Look at that pic and you can see the Carroll crowd had extended around the corner there in the north endzone at Tx Stadium. I know it had in the south endzone as well.
It just looks as if Coach Dodge is saying hello Tom, this sure has been fun. I'm going to miss it and Coach Westerberg has the look of Thank GOD you're gone :D


Todd has that look of "damn Tom, 172-50 in 4 games. This has been fun...I'll bet you're glad I'm leaving":p:D