Interesting Article On Coaches Salaries

[LPanther]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/010806dnspocoachsalaries.2a4475f.html

[toonman]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/010806dnspocoachsalaries.2a4475f.html

I agree, it is an interesting article. But I do not think you can compare a Coach with a Math Teacher. At the end of the day there is only one "Sam Harrell" or one "Todd Dodge" whose work is there for everyone to see. By that I mean the performance of the team and the result on the field. We do not have the opportunity to watch "Mr Math Teacher" and judge his (or her) performance in the classroom. Sports and Academics are just like Apples and Oranges – completely different. They are not alike so cannot be compared. The only thing apples and oranges have in common is that they both reside in the fruit the bowl, whereas Coaches and Teachers both work in a school, and that is where the comparison ends.

[Mhs06]

It sounds like you think there are no good teachers in schools :cool: . Teachers influence just as many kids as coaches do, if not more.

[RidgePride]

I agree, it is an interesting article. But I do not think you can compare a Coach with a Math Teacher. At the end of the day there is only one "Sam Harrell" or one "Todd Dodge" whose work is there for everyone to see. By that I mean the performance of the team and the result on the field. We do not have the opportunity to watch "Mr Math Teacher" and judge his (or her) performance in the classroom. Sports and Academics are just like Apples and Oranges – completely different. They are not alike so cannot be compared. The only thing apples and oranges have in common is that they both reside in the fruit the bowl, whereas Coaches and Teachers both work in a school, and that is where the comparison ends.
I completely agree with you. Football is a major cash cow for high school. It would make sense that a coach who brings football victories and tradition would make more money than teachers.

It all comes down to the fact that winning football games = more money!

[drgnbkr]

I respect teachers immensely, but you don't see math teachers there at 7AM or Geography teachers there at 7PM or on Saturdays watching film with the coaches...no comparison on the hours.....

[SeguinMatadors]

It sounds like you think there are no good teachers in schools :cool: . Teachers influence just as many kids as coaches do, if not more.

That is not true. I had no teacher infuence me the way any of my coaches did throughout school.

[Slim-Rob]

Judson starts school at 8:05. Most football coaches are there at or before 7:30. Teachers only show up at 7:30 if they are going to do tutoring.

Judson ends at 3:05. Most of the teachers are gone at or before 4:00, the only ones staying later are doing tutoring. Judson football practice ends between 4:30 and 6:30, depending on the day of the week and if there was mandantory tutoring that day. Coaches leave around 7:00 on the weeks of small games (Nixon, Lee), but I've gone by the school and seen their vehicles as late as midnight on the weeks of big games (Cove, Pflugerville, SV, Madison, all playoff opponents).

Teachers: 7:30/8:00-3:30/4:00= 7h 30m to 8h 30m ----Full Year
Football Coaches: 7:30/7:40-6:00/12:00= 10h 20m to 16 h 30m -----About 3/5ths of year (first semester, spring ball)
THERE IS NO COMPARISON HERE

BUT:
Teachers teach up to 3 classes a day, with 1 conference period.
Rackley does not have any classes, with 1 athletic period.
Other Coaches teach health 1 or 2 times a day, along with athletics.

I think teachers should earn more money than they do because they are teaching the future teachers and coaches(or any other profession)

I think coaches salaries are just fine because football, especially at Judson, earns a lot of money and keeps hundreds of kids disciplined that may otherwise not be.

(Disclaimer: This is what I have personally seen, this is not exact information.)

[toonman]

It sounds like you think there are no good teachers in schools :cool: . Teachers influence just as many kids as coaches do, if not more.
No - The point I am making is that the only thing a Teacher and Coach have is common is that they both work at a school and that is no reason to compare salaries. There are great teachers and great coaches, just as there poor teachers and poor coaches. A teacher is paid what a teacher is worth and a coach is paid what a coach is worth.

[Stranglehold]

It sounds like you think there are no good teachers in schools :cool: . Teachers influence just as many kids as coaches do, if not more.

Not if the coach teaches classes as well

[Stranglehold]

It sounds like you think there are no good teachers in schools :cool: . Teachers influence just as many kids as coaches do, if not more.

Also--you can' be a good coach unless you are a good teacher. If you can't coach you can't teach and if you can't teach you can't coach. Why shouldn't they be valuable?

[bubbacoach]

Coaches sallaries are based on a teacher salary plus a stipend that goes towards paying for our extra duties. Athletic directors, Head Coaches, Campus Coordinators are payed based on a administrators salary. If they are at a district that does not have the head football coach as Campus Coordinator or AD then even the Head Football Coach is Teacher Salary for the number of years plus a stipend. In most 5A schools coaches have to teach classes along with their coaching duties. I for one arrive at or before 6:30 every morning to get my classroom and practice schedules for the day worked out. And typically do not leave until on average 6:30 to 7:30 in season and between 4:45 and 6:00 out of season. If you were to equate my hours worked to an hourly wage I would be making less than $3 an hour. My counterparts arrive right before the bell and leave as soon as they can get out of here after school. You cannot compare the hours a coach and a classroom teacher spend with kids. Often times we have to also be father figures to these kids and teach them things well beyond the sport, so do not tell me that a teacher touches more kids lives than a coach. We spend alot more time with them and get to know them beyond that kid that sits in the third seat second row. Teachers are underpayed, coaches are underpayed, the whole educational system is underpayed, bu there is not a whole lot we can do about it. But know this most coaches earn every last cent they recieve. There are alot of long hours and busy days. We are put under a microscope so that some moron that has a very basic knowledge of the game can question our calls, or degrade us in front of our families in the stands at games.

[Drake]

Coaching and teaching are two different professions... Coaching salaries are higher than teachers in high schools because of supply and demand. Given the longer hours, year-round commitment, and public scrutiny, there would not be enough coaches to fill the jobs if they were only offered what the average teacher makes...

Bubba... You don't think paying fans have the right to comment on or criticize game day coaching? Don't you think that in some ways it's those fan evaluations that puts good coaches on a pedestal and helps weed out the poor coaches, creating an escalation in coaching salaries by creating more demand for good ones? I don’t know… Do you think criticizing coaching should be entirely off limits at the high school level or that just the ones you think are “morons” should have to be quiet?

[Redneckn]

Coaches making more cash than teachers is part of what's wrong with this country. Think about this for a second. A coach is making 50K a year a teacher is making 30K a year. A football coach will deal with, say 50 kids, in a year. A teacher will deal with 30+ X 5 each day for the entire school year and not have any way to punish a smart mouth kid. A coach can make that smart@$$ run laps. Or put him off the team and he's then done with him. A teach does not have that luxury.

I love football just as much as the next guy, but I think we focus too much of our finances on sports. We have kids that can't spell correctly. Even I can manage to get it right 95% of the time.

[bubbacoach]

Coaching and teaching are two different professions... Coaching salaries are higher than teachers in high schools because of supply and demand. Given the longer hours, year-round commitment, and public scrutiny, there would not be enough coaches to fill the jobs if they were only offered what the average teacher makes...

Bubba... You don't think paying fans have the right to comment on or criticize game day coaching? Don't you think that in some ways it's those fan evaluations that puts good coaches on a pedestal and helps weed out the poor coaches, creating an escalation in coaching salaries by creating more demand for good ones? I don’t know… Do you think criticizing coaching should be entirely off limits at the high school level or that just the ones you think are “morons” should have to be quiet?
I know that I do not mind the criticizing. I just think that you are going to be critical have a solution to the problem. I know most people played high school football on this board. Some college, very few if any pro. So what makes you think you know more than the coach? If you are going to be critical, have the balls to do it in the coaches office. I know if I am critical of the person doing my taxes or serving my meal, or giving me medical opinions (doctors) I am not going to the lobby, waiting area and tell the people there, I am telling the person I disagree with. I guess that is the difference between men and boys.

[Drake]

Paying teachers higher won't improve the education system... Again, it's supply and demand... Teachers cut their own throats by resisting accountability... When they implement ways to weed out bad teachers then demand for good teachers will rise, and so will teachers salaries and the performance of the students...

[ALLIN]

Most of the coaches I had growing up taught 3-5 classes, as well as having the 200-300 kids that are in ahtletics; so, your comment about a coach only having 50 kids a year is wrong in most cases. Not to mention, the improtance athletics plays in the kids lives. Many of them would not be in school in the first place, if it were not for athletics.

[Drake]

I know that I do not mind the criticizing. I just think that you are going to be critical have a solution to the problem. I know most people played high school football on this board. Some college, very few if any pro. So what makes you think you know more than the coach? If you are going to be critical, have the balls to do it in the coaches office. I know if I am critical of the person doing my taxes or serving my meal, or giving me medical opinions (doctors) I am not going to the lobby, waiting area and tell the people there, I am telling the person I disagree with. I guess that is the difference between men and boys.So, you're saying that fans at a game should resist any negative comments about play calling during the game unless they are boys?

[bubbacoach]

Coaches making more cash than teachers is part of what's wrong with this country. Think about this for a second. A coach is making 50K a year a teacher is making 30K a year. A football coach will deal with, say 50 kids, in a year. A teacher will deal with 30+ X 5 each day for the entire school year and not have any way to punish a smart mouth kid. A coach can make that smart@$$ run laps. Or put him off the team and he's then done with him. A teach does not have that luxury.

I love football just as much as the next guy, but I think we focus too much of our finances on sports. We have kids that can't spell correctly. Even I can manage to get it right 95% of the time.
Wow, You do not know a whole lot about what coaches do. I personally have over 200 kids I deal with in athletics alone. I have four classes that average about 30 kids each. If I do the math correctly that is over 320 kids I deal with. Coaches don't just coach, we are classroom teachers also. And as far as finances, what sport do you think brings more money into the school than any other extracurricular event? Band, UIL (math, science, reading) etc. At one of the schools I was at we did a study on kids in athletics results on Taks test vs. kids not involved scores and it was not even close. the kids in athletics scores were far higher than those not involved. Athletics pushes kids in the classroom and on the field. Athletics stands for what is good, and what is right in our school system. It gives the kids motivation to do right so that they can do something they enjoy.

[Drake]

Most of the coaches I had growing up taught 3-5 classes, as well as having the 200-300 kids that are in ahtletics; so, your comment about a coach only having 50 kids a year is wrong in most cases. Not to mention, the improtance athletics plays in the kids lives. Many of them would not be in school in the first place, if it were not for athletics.I agree. I would guess that young men develop much more of who they are and how they act from their coaches than their teachers... Regardless, that's not why coaches get paid more...

[bubbacoach]

So, you're saying that fans at a game should resist any negative comments about play calling during the game unless they are boys?
I think they are cowards for saying it in front of our wives and kids, but not man enough to do it in front of us.

[bubbacoach]

So, you're saying that fans at a game should resist any negative comments about play calling during the game unless they are boys?
What do you do for a living? How would you like me to sit at your workplace and call you a ******* and tell everyone within hearing distance that you have no clue what you are doing? Tell your wife and kids you should turn the page in your job manuscript. Try to convince everyone around you that you should be fired?

[Drake]

I think they are cowards for saying it front of our wifes and kids, but not man enough to do it in front of us.Well, I agree... Sort of... I mean, if a fan is saying "put in the backup QB", or "that was a horrible time to go for it on 4th down", or "what's he thinking calling a pass play there?" then I think it goes with the territory, even in front of a coaches family... But if they said something like "Bubbacoach is as dumb as a rock...", especially if they knew your family could hear, that would be out of line... Don't you think?

[Redneckn]

Wow, You do not know a whole lot about what coaches do. I personally have over 200 kids I deal with in athletics alone. I have four classes that average about 30 kids each. If I do the math correctly that is over 320 kids I deal with. Coaches don't just coach, we are classroom teachers also. And as far as finances, what sport do you think brings more money into the school than any other extracurricular event? Band, UIL (math, science, reading) etc. At one of the schools I was at we did a study on kids in athletics results on Taks test vs. kids not involved scores and it was not even close. the kids in athletics scores were far higher than those not involved. Athletics pushes kids in the classroom and on the field. Athletics stands for what is good, and what is right in our school system. It gives the kids motivation to do right so that they can do something they enjoy.


I speaking about just coaches that coach. Not coach/teachers.

Athletics gives athletes motivation. The rest of the kids couldn't care less for the most part. and most kids are not athletes.
I think taxpayers bring more money into the school than anything else. Which is one of my pet peeves. If my kids arent going to public schools, I shouldnt have to pay taxes that support public schools. I realize that that is not possible, but I should at least get a tax break.

[Drake]

What do you do for a living? How would you like me to sit at your workplace and call you a ******* and tell everyone within hearing distance that you have no clue what you are doing? Tell your wife and kids you should turn the page in your job manuscript. Try to convince everyone around you that you should be fired?Well... This conversation is coming back to my point... That, along with other factors, is why coaches get paid more than teachers...

Fans are like customers for coaches... Me personally, I have my own business... If I (we) don't perform then we certainly don't have fans jeering us, but we lose customers and my family suffers all the same... If my customers complain I must heed their message, or at least recognize they have the right to do so, whether they are morons or not...

[toonman]

Coaches making more cash than teachers is part of what's wrong with this country. Think about this for a second. A coach is making 50K a year a teacher is making 30K a year. A football coach will deal with, say 50 kids, in a year. A teacher will deal with 30+ X 5 each day for the entire school year and not have any way to punish a smart mouth kid. A coach can make that smart@$$ run laps. Or put him off the team and he's then done with him. A teach does not have that luxury.

I love football just as much as the next guy, but I think we focus too much of our finances on sports. We have kids that can't spell correctly. Even I can manage to get it right 95% of the time.

You make a comment that is applicable to all jobs and professions, not only in the US, but throughout the world. Policemen, Fireman, Nurses, etc are paid poorly for the job they do. Yet we, the public, pay sports stars, movie actors etc huge amounts in the millions, for what? Entertaining?’ which hardly life threatening. But at the end of the day; there are a lot of nurses, a lot of firefighters, but only one George Clooney, one Vince Young and one Sam Harrell, and one Bubbacoach - That is why coaches are paid more than the math teacher. It is us who determine who gets paid what through supply and demand.

[Redneckn]

There are few instances where coaches should be make lots more than teachers. If they both have put in the same amount of time, there really shouldnt be that much difference between them moneywise.

I mean a good teacher and a coach. I dont mean just some person to sit in a class and baby sit.
I agree that paying teachers more wont fix the problem. I couldnt agree more.
But, if you are going to attract good teachers you are going to have to pay them. People don't seem to have a problem putting some money out there to get a good coach, but they wont do the same for a teacher. There is just something wrong with that.

[Redneckn]

You make a comment that is applicable to all jobs and professions, not only in the US, but throughout the world. Policemen, Fireman, Nurses, etc are paid poorly for the job they do. Yet we, the public, pay sports stars, movie actors etc huge amounts in the millions, for what? Entertaining?’ which hardly life threatening. But at the end of the day; there are a lot of nurses, a lot of firefighters, but only one George Clooney, one Vince Young and one Sam Harrell, and one Bubbacoach - That is why coaches are paid more than the math teacher. It is us who determine who gets paid what through supply and demand.


Then we, as a society, are a bunch of f-ing idiots. Entertainers are overpaid and that is the bottom line. And we should all be ashamed of ourselves for paying them what we do.

[t00 playa]

I think they are cowards for saying it front of our wifes and kids, but not man enough to do it in front of us.

cry me a river.......

:eek:

[t00 playa]

Then we, as a society, are a bunch of f-ing idiots. Entertainers are overpaid and that is the bottom line. And we should all be ashamed of ourselves for paying them what we do.

exactly....half of the NFL has gotten caught with dope, they say stupid classless things on tv, .. look at TO... i could care less about pro sports:eek: our focus on entertaining has gone too far... and then we want to act like we dont know why society is all out of whack

[t00 playa]

I mean.. so what if the 125 kids the math teacher has each year can':eek: t add and subract... or speak english correctly etc etc... i mean.. hey... these coaches are sending them all to the pros anyway so who needs math and a solid education?..... so we dont need teachers....

and whoever made the comment about weeding out bad teachers then the pay will increase? well.. they throw big money down to entice coaches to sign a contract.. y cant they do the same for teachers? because there are some horrible coaches, making more than the best teachers... so your comment doesnt hold water...there are good and bad in every profession.. if that were the case.. then weed out all the bad coaches.. or reduce thier pay significantly....and increase teacher pay based on performance

[Drake]

By not imposing result oriented standards and benchmarks, teachers have made it difficult to determine which of them are deserving of better opportunities and pay... Wouldn't it be nice to know if a certain math teacher's students consistently scored higher on math assessments or vice versa?

Do we know which teacher's students learn more and succeed more often? No. So how do we know which are the most valuable teachers? We don't. Teachers get compensated and benefits based on longevity and that's about it. It's a union mentality that protects and provides for the worst of them, but keeps the best from earning what they deserve.

Coaches on the other hand have their teams’ records to prove their worth. For them, success creates demand which leads to better opportunities and pay at all levels...

[Redneckn]

So we need to do away with a teachers union then.

[DragonBand06]

I know this isn't exactly the same, but what about elementary school teachers? I mean, they're the ones teaching basic reading and math - the two most important bases for History, Science, etc... I know for a fact that they work MANY hours overtime and have to deal with all sorts of crap from parents calling all the time... They should definitely get paid more.

P.S. This is great, check it out:
http://schoolpwnd.ytmnd.com/

[Redneckn]

I know this isn't exactly the same, but what about elementary school teachers? I mean, they're the ones teaching basic reading and math - the two most important bases for History, Science, etc... I know for a fact that they work MANY hours overtime and have to deal with all sorts of crap from parents calling all the time... They should definitely get paid more.

P.S. This is great, check it out:
http://schoolpwnd.ytmnd.com/


No they shouldn't. In fact, we should cut all the teachers pay in half and give that other half to the coaches.
I was reading back over this and running some figures and have come to the conclusion that teachers are just there for the athletes to have something to do when they aren't playing ball.:eek:

[DragonBand06]

No they shouldn't. In fact, we should cut all the teachers pay in half and give that other half to the coaches.
I was reading back over this and running some figures and have come to the conclusion that teachers are just there for the athletes to have something to do when they aren't playing ball.:eek:

I sure hope you're kidding, because if not then I just lost a lot of respect for you... :confused: :(

[Redneckn]

I sure hope you're kidding, because if not then I just lost a lot of respect for you... :confused: :(

You respect me? Wow! I'm flattered...I'd've never thought it...

I was being prictavious when I said that... I don't really think we should cut teachers pay. We should actually cut coaches pay and give that to the teachers...:D

[t00 playa]

with so many benchmarks that students take to continually monitor progress.... and the fact that taks scores are broken down by teacher... i dont agree with the statment regarding you cant prove a teachers worth like you can a coaches.....In early may... teachers know what percentage passed thier particular section of the taks, be it math, science, reading.. etc....so if on my benchmarks early on in the year...are hovering around a 56% passing rate... and by the end of the year they were around 88% passing rate.....thats a good measure.... if someone else has 60% at the beginning and at the end has 80%, who did the better job? that is a pretty good measure....

and for those who think that coaches put in all these hours etc etc...thats for 10-15 weeks only! what about the other 21-26 weeks of the school year?? yes you work saturdays.. and long hours.. etc etc.... but after that avg 12 weeks of football... ur done... all the assistants run offseason.. and weights.. so its vacation time for them.... teachers work 36 weeks......7-4 or whatever, so its ludicrous to start counting time and hours each does...

well anyway.. dont get me wrong... i like watching football and going to the games etc etc.... i dont have anything against the coaches.. they just get paid with what they pay them.... the problem goes far beyond that.....:eek:

[Drake]

with so many benchmarks that students take to continually monitor progress.... and the fact that taks scores are broken down by teacher... i dont agree with the statment regarding you cant prove a teachers worth like you can a coaches.....In early may... teachers know what percentage passed thier particular section of the taks, be it math, science, reading.. etc....so if on my benchmarks early on in the year...are hovering around a 56% passing rate... and by the end of the year they were around 88% passing rate.....thats a good measure.... if someone else has 60% at the beginning and at the end has 80%, who did the better job? that is a pretty good measure....I'm not completely following you... If the assessment tests measure a teacher's performance as well as a student's, then that's the data needed to separate the more deserving teachers... The question is, why aren't school districts seeking out and hiring the most qualified and accomplished teachers (creating demand for better teachers and consequently better salaries) and dumping the poor performing ones like is done in with coaches?

[yankee]

I'm not completely following you... If the assessment tests measure a teacher's performance as well as a student's, then that's the data needed to separate the more deserving teachers... The question is, why aren't school districts seeking out the hiring the most qualified and accomplished teachers (creating demand for better teachers and consequently better salaries) and dumping the poor performing ones like is done in with coaches?
down here in texas, teachers are not required to earn a masters degree in teaching. thus making it easier and quicker for a teacher to earn a liscense. if texas made a law like a lot of other states do requiring a masters, then districts would be able to get the accomplished teachers. with so few teachers down here without masters, districts have to do the best they can do.

[whyzat]

What do you do for a living? How would you like me to sit at your workplace and call you a ******* and tell everyone within hearing distance that you have no clue what you are doing? Tell your wife and kids you should turn the page in your job manuscript. Try to convince everyone around you that you should be fired?

My unsolicited advice to you would be if you don't wish to be perceived as a *******, a good first step would be to discontinue your posts here. They represent you as a poster boy for every negative stereotype of the ubiquitious cretin masquerading as a coach. Have a nice day, even if it starts early and ends late.

[Drake]

My unsolicited advice to you would be if you don't wish to be perceived as a *******, a good first step would be to discontinue your posts here. They represent you as a poster boy for every negative stereotype of the ubiquitious cretin masquerading as a coach. Have a nice day, even if it starts early and ends late.Funny how "ubiquitous" is ubiquitously misspelled (as "misspelled" often misspelled)... :)

I disagree with your advice to Bubbacoach... Seems to me we gain more perspective with varied perspectives...

[bubbacoach]

Whyzat you are one of the boys I am talking about. If I knew where you were and who you were I would definetly stop by next time I was in Houston so that you could bellycrawl and not say it to my face. too playa I understand your bitterness, being a fan of a team that is a underachiever every year.

[toonman]

Then we, as a society, are a bunch of f-ing idiots. Entertainers are overpaid and that is the bottom line. And we should all be ashamed of ourselves for paying them what we do.

Hey - I agree, but that 'genie is out the lamp' now and there is no turning back.

[whyzat]

Funny how "ubiquitous" is ubiquitously misspelled (as "misspelled" often misspelled)... :)

I disagree with your advice to Bubbacoach... Seems to me we gain more perspective with varied perspectives...

If Bubba is ever absent long enough for you to miss his perspective, tune in any WWF event and treat yourself to the pre-match hype. These always feature loud, obnoxious, bellicose, knuckle dragging goons....should fill the bill.

[Redneckn]

Hey - I agree, but that 'genie is out the lamp' now and there is no turning back.

Things can always change. It just takes time and willingness to change them.

[bubbacoach]

If Bubba is ever absent long enough for you to miss his perspective, tune in any WWF event and treat yourself to the pre-match hype. These always feature loud, obnoxious, bellicose, knuckle dragging goons....should fill the bill.
Just guessing, but I think you are jealous because: A. I make more money than you. B. You were always envious of the football players when you were in the band. C. You could not ever be a good football coach. D. Most boy's are always envious of men. What is the the WWF by the way. Never heard of it. As far as being a loud, obnoxious, bellicose, knuckle dragging goon, I do not know what you mean. If that is the same as being a man not afraid to speak his mind in front of someone else, an educated man with a masters degree, tall and in good shape because I work out daily, then yes I guess you are right. Keep living inside your own little world down there in Houston and someday if you are lucky you will understand the game of football and all it means and demands of a person to be a coach.:eek:

[Drake]

Bubba - It's obvious that Whyzat has taken serious exception to something you've said, your line of thinking, or is biased against coaches in general... I haven't seen anything you've said that warranted the vicious responses, but...

You often talk down to posters here that aren't coaches, as if that is a requirement to have any more than a rudimentary understanding of the strategies or what it takes to play and coach football... A few of your posts in this thread highlight your disdain for second-guessers. I remember remarking here about a few play calls by the Cy Falls coaches against Katy that you dismissed as without merit mostly because I wasn’t a coach and therefore didn’t have the background to question a call.

Personally, I don’t agree with Whyzat’s generalizations about coaches. But, if you’re going to stereotype fans the way you have previously, I don’t see how you can get riled over him or anyone else applying generalizations about you or your profession. Don’t you agree?

[bubbacoach]

Bubba - It's obvious that Whyzat has taken serious exception to something you've said, your line of thinking, or is biased against coaches in general... I haven't seen anything you've said that warranted the vicious responses, but...

You often talk down to posters here that aren't coaches, as if that is a requirement to have any more than a rudimentary understanding of the strategies or what it takes to play and coach football... A few of your posts in this thread highlight your disdain for second-guessers. I remember remarking here about a few play calls by the Cy Falls coaches against Katy that you dismissed as without merit mostly because I wasn’t a coach and therefore didn’t have the background to question a call.

Personally, I don’t agree with Whyzat’s generalizations about coaches. But, if you’re going to stereotype fans the way you have previously, I don’t see how you can get riled over him or anyone else applying generalizations about you or your profession. Don’t you agree?

I think stereotyping is only done by the ones that do not have an in depth knowledge of what they are stereotyping. I just think that the ordinary fan does not understand the hours spent watching film, teaching blocking schemes, finding tendencies, etc., put in behind every play call. Every team you play has tendencies both offfensively and defensively. And each team you play ussually trades with your team a minimum of three game tapes. And each game tape is broken down by formation, down, distant, etc to find these tendencies. Then you must understand that when I say tendencies I do not mean that they are always 100%. Some teams show strong tendencies toward formations, some towards down and distant. So when they call a play they have a knowledge of what the other team is probably going to run. As a I said before no tendencies are 100%, but as a gambler you must play the odds or a gut feeling. These coaches are not calling plays without some background. I know when I scout sometimes I say I would have run this or that, but who knows if it would work, because I do not know how they would line up against it. Second guessing is easy. I just do not think the ordinary fan realizes the hours put in to make that play call and what it is based on.

[Drake]

I think stereotyping is only done by the ones that do not have an in depth knowledge of what they are stereotyping. I just think that the ordinary fan does not understand the hours spent watching film, teaching blocking schemes, finding tendencies, etc., put in behind every play call. Every team you play has tendencies both offfensively and defensively. And each team you play ussually trades with your team a minimum of three game tapes. And each game tape is broken down by formation, down, distant, etc to find these tendencies. Then you must understand that when I say tendencies I do not mean that they are always 100%. Some teams show strong tendencies toward formations, some towards down and distant. So when they call a play they have a knowledge of what the other team is probably going to run. As a I said before no tendencies are 100%, but as a gambler you must play the odds or a gut feeling. These coaches are not calling plays without some background. I know when I scout sometimes I say I would have run this or that, but who knows if it would work, because I do not know how they would line up against it. Second guessing is easy. I just do not think the ordinary fan realizes the hours put in to make that play call and what it is based on.That sounds reasonable... I agree from what you've described that most of those that haven't coached at your level probably don't understand all the preparation and consideration that goes into in-game decisions... I know I don't... But, I still think we, as fans, have the right to express our frustration when things go wrong (as long as it's not too personal in nature) just as you would have us express our elation when something goes well...

[whyzat]

Bubba - It's obvious that Whyzat has taken serious exception to something you've said, your line of thinking, or is biased against coaches in general... I haven't seen anything you've said that warranted the vicious responses, but...

You often talk down to posters here that aren't coaches, as if that is a requirement to have any more than a rudimentary understanding of the strategies or what it takes to play and coach football... A few of your posts in this thread highlight your disdain for second-guessers. I remember remarking here about a few play calls by the Cy Falls coaches against Katy that you dismissed as without merit mostly because I wasn’t a coach and therefore didn’t have the background to question a call.

Personally, I don’t agree with Whyzat’s generalizations about coaches. But, if you’re going to stereotype fans the way you have previously, I don’t see how you can get riled over him or anyone else applying generalizations about you or your profession. Don’t you agree?

You are a man of many talents. In addition to service as head spelling matron for the forum, you also find time to hold forth on the psyshological sources of "vicious attacks" on poor Bubba. Let me help you out here. My "exception" is to arrogant, ill mannered, and boorish behavior. The occupation of those who practice it makes no difference, so my "generalization" referenced individuals who share Bubba's disregard for civility and common courtesy, not coaches in general. What should concern you, or anone with children in public schools, is the transmission of his mindset or "virtues" to the captive audience over which he claims to exert such great influence. Do you consider that an appealing prospect for your kids? Masters Degree in Education, Health, or Kinesiology notwithstanding, I do not percieve him to be the ideal role model. It's nothing personal, but the failure to challenge some of this idiocy is to condone it. I find that unacceptable.

[Drake]

You are a man of many talents. In addition to service as head spelling matron for the forum, you also find time to hold forth on the psyshological sources of "vicious attacks" on poor Bubba. Let me help you out here. My "exception" is to arrogant, ill mannered, and boorish behavior. The occupation of those who practice it makes no difference, so my "generalization" referenced individuals who share Bubba's disregard for civility and common courtesy, not coaches in general. What should concern you, or anone with children in public schools, is the transmission of his mindset or "virtues" to the captive audience over which he claims to exert such great influence. Do you consider that an appealing prospect for your kids? Masters Degree in Education, Health, or Kinesiology notwithstanding, I do not percieve him to be the ideal role model. It's nothing personal, but the failure to challenge some of this idiocy is to condone it. I find that unacceptable.While you certainly express yourself well, I don't see any adherence to modesty or civility in the posts YOU have made on this thread...

[whyzat]

While you certainly express yourself well, I don't see any adherence to modesty or civility in the posts YOU have made on this thread...

Point well taken. I do not present myself as a latter day Ghandi, however, the subject of my observations "aint' Emily Post" either. I would hazard a guess that subtlety or even pained forebearence would be a waste of breath in this particuliar case, as your measured responses don't appear to getting through. I probably should have let it go, but some statements strike you as so over the top that good judgement fails to prevail. I have no quarrel with you.

[bubbacoach]

Point well taken. I do not present myself as a latter day Ghandi, however, the subject of my observations "aint' Emily Post" either. I would hazard a guess that subtlety or even pained forebearence would be a waste of breath in this particuliar case, as your measured responses don't appear to getting through. I probably should have let it go, but some statements strike you as so over the top that good judgement fails to prevail. I have no quarrel with you.
I believe your first post on this thread was an attack at me. At which time I returned fire. I will defend myself with the written word when necessary or with physicallity as a last result. When you question my masters, It is not in P.E., it is in education. If you do not want me to go on the attack, do not put me on the offensive. I do know for a fact that the majority of people on this sight do not know what go into a game plan. The hours spent in meeting amongst coaches and with players that go into every gameplan. So when someone attacks a coach or his system without greater knowledge than the coach they are attacking, I will defend them. If you attack athletics, I will defend it as one of the best things in the school system. House Bill 72, as well as good coaches, use athletics as an educational tool. The student/athlete must pass to play. So he must do his work and do what is right in the classroom to pass. Most programs have mandatory study halls to help their student athletes. The coaches are not just there to teach football, basketball, baseball, etc., we place a high significance on grades as well ( in the good programs). If you would do a survey of every school of Taks scores fo kid's who participate in UIL sanctioned events vs. kids who do not participate, you would find that the passing percentage would be higher in the group involved in these extra-curricular activities. Athletics, Band, Dance, Cheerleading, and etc., are very positives in schools. They are ussually your best kids, your smartest kids, and there is a reason for that, they are motivated kids. I would like to say that the motivation all comes from home, but you and I both know that is nonsense. It comes because they want to participate, they want to suceed at something, which gives them the drive to do better in the classroom. So attack me if you wish, whyzat. But I know what I know. Or, let me and strakedrake carry on a conversation.:rolleyes:

[Redneckn]

I believe your first post on this thread was an attack at me. At which time I returned fire. I will defend myself with the written word when necessary or with physicallity as a last result. When you question my masters, It is not in P.E., it is in education. If you do not want me to go on the attack, do not put me on the offensive. I do know for a fact that the majority of people on this sight do not know what go into a game plan. The hours spent in meeting amongst coaches and with players that go into every gameplan. So when someone attacks a coach or his system without greater knowledge than the coach they are attacking, I will defend them. If you attack athletics, I will defend it as one of the best things in the school system. House Bill 72, as well as good coaches, use athletics as an educational tool. The student/athlete must pass to play. So he must do his work and do what is right in the classroom to pass. Most programs have mandatory study halls to help their student athletes. The coaches are not just there to teach football, basketball, baseball, etc., we place a high significance on grades as well ( in the good programs). If you would do a survey of every school of Taks scores fo kid's who participate in UIL sanctioned events vs. kids who do not participate, you would find that the passing percentage would be higher in the group involved in these extra-curricular activities. Athletics, Band, Dance, Cheerleading, and etc., are very positives in schools. They are ussually your best kids, your smartest kids, and there is a reason for that, they are motivated kids. I would like to say that the motivation all comes from home, but you and I both know that is nonsense. It comes because they want to participate, they want to suceed at something, which gives them the drive to do better in the classroom. So attack me if you wish, whyzat. But I know what I know. Or, let me and strakedrake carry on a conversation.:rolleyes:


Note #1: Internet badarse...
Note #2: Site
Note #3: You can't possible think that...

[Drake]

Whyzat -

Nor I with you... I certainly can't castigate anyone for allowing emotions to spill over into posts and write things that were only intended to be hurtful and not at all required to make the point... I have done it plenty...

The difference is, you are an enormously powerful and convincing writer, most powerful I've read here... When used as a weapon your words never miss their mark and are very effective... Like a black belt in karate you must use much more temperance before engaging in a fight... Just my opinion... :)

[whyzat]

StrakeDrake,

Received, acknowledged, and accepted in the spirit given. You are most accomplished, despite being overly effusive in your praise. The ability to insert salient points within that praise was noted and grudgingly admired. Seldom have I been simultaneously chided and impressed. You will merit close attention.

bubbacoach,

I have no interest in attacking you. We disagree. Leave it at that, and carry on your conversation uninterrupted.

[The Dude]

Bubbacoach-

I would just like to say I completely agree with EVERYTHING you've been saying and every agrument I wanted to make, you beat me to the punch. I'm sure you don't need me telling you this, but do not listen to any of these uneducated-partially educated views on coaches and the work they put in and their influence on kids. Coaches must literally kiss their families goodbye in August and wait untill december to see them again. They will be pressured with missing their son's little league baseball games and their daughters dance recitals on top of game planning and a full day of teaching classrooms full of kids, half of whom don't even want to be there. I couldn't have anymore respect for you Bubba after reading your posts.

[Drake]

Bubba -

From your last post I gather that you believe criticizing coaches is off limits to anyone that is either outside the coaching profession or isn't aware of the long hours and hard work that may have influenced gameday decisions... You also make it clear you feel compelled to defend any coach that is the target of criticism from such a source...

I was curious to how do you reconcile your position when the criticism of a coach is accurate or at least arguably fair? If your position is, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all...", I can appreciate that. But if a lay person, like myself, is lucky enough to say something about the game that is accurate but paints the coaching in a poor light, would I still be wrong for saying it?

[Drake]

Bubbacoach-

I would just like to say I completely agree with EVERYTHING you've been saying and every agrument I wanted to make, you beat me to the punch. I'm sure you don't need me telling you this, but do not listen to any of these uneducated-partially educated views on coaches and the work they put in and their influence on kids. Coaches must literally kiss their families goodbye in August and wait untill december to see them again. They will be pressured with missing their son's little league baseball games and their daughters dance recitals on top of game planning and a full day of teaching classrooms full of kids, half of whom don't even want to be there. I couldn't have anymore respect for you Bubba after reading your posts.I agree Dude... Bubba's loyalty and unwavering defense of his coaching brethren is admirable... But just like he short changes non-participants when he states that kids that participate in extra-curriculars are the "best kids", I think he short changes himself by not considering opinions from sources outside of the locker room, whether they have validity or not...

[bubbacoach]

I agree Dude... Bubba's loyalty and unwavering defense of his coaching brethren is admirable... But just like he short changes non-participants when he states that kids that participate in extra-curriculars are the "best kids", I think he short changes himself by not considering opinions from sources outside of the locker room, whether they have validity or not...
I will listen to anybody opinions. If you ever stop listening to outside sources, such as the kids you coach, clinics, and fans, you will stop growing at a coach. The problem I have is when they attack the coach as a person, his character, ect. It is one thing to question to his play calling, as coaches we sometimes question other coaches play calling. But we do not put down the other coach or attack his character, like see happen so often in the stands while scouting. Question every play call if you wish, but do not attack the coach himself.

[Drake]

I will listen to anybody opinions. If you ever stop listening to outside sources, such as the kids you coach, clinics, and fans, you will stop growing at a coach. The problem I have is when they attack the coach as a person, his character, ect. It is one thing to question to his play calling, as coaches we sometimes question other coaches play calling. But we do not put down the other coach or attack his character, like see happen so often in the stands while scouting. Question every play call if you wish, but do not attack the coach himself.Bubba - We concur! So, what should we talk about next? ;)

[DiamondJ2]

Wow!! some excellent posts and discussions both ways. One of you mentioned that teachers do not want to be hold accoutable. We hold coaches accountable with their results every time their team plays, and teachers are held to a similar accountability with TAKS scores. If a coach and his staff doesn't perform to a certain level, he/they will be dismissed. Teachers are now feeling the same pressure.

If a teacher could have her/his students for 2+ hours every day after school for sixteen weeks, the scores would rise dramatically. That is, if those students choose to participate in 2+ hours of study after school. Business owners can choose their clientele, teachers do not have that luxury unless they are fortunate to teach AP, IB, TAG, etc classes.

[bubbacoach]

Coaches are also held accountable fors TAKS scores. Do not forget this. And I know the highest TAKS scores at the school I am at come from the Social Studies department. Mmmmm, What do most coaches teach? You cannot be a good coach without being a good teacher.

[Tut]

Coaches are also held accountable fors TAKS scores. Do not forget this. And I know the highest TAKS scores at the school I am at come from the Social Studies department. Mmmmm, What do most coaches teach? You cannot be a good coach without being a good teacher.
Coaches are teachers on the field and in the classroom. Some are better at one or the other, but the best are strong at both.