Garland Head Football Coaches

[swtbobcats]

The Dallas Morning News ran a great article on Head Football Coaches in the Metroplex.

Highest Paid Coach in Garland:

1. Bill Patterson - $81, 274
2. Mickey Moss - $80, 872
3. Jeff Jordan - $79, 702
4. David Farris - $77, 937
5. Kiff Hardin - $77, 747
6. Don Willis - $76, 614
7. Mark Behrens. $73, 170

Average Per WIN:
Highest - 1. Bill Patterson $81, 274
Lowest - 7. Jeff Jordan - $7, 970.20

How does a Coach that post records of 1-9, 3-7, 6-4, 8-3, 2-8, 1-9 make the most out of all of these coaches? That is a 21 - 40 record.

If I was those other Coaches I would be asking for a pay raise!!!!!!!

[owlfan 1]

After NF's co-district championship season, Patterson's name was being mentioned as a candidate for several openings. I'm speculating, but perhaps he was given a raise to keep him around. He really does seem to be a good coach - however, now that Sachse has opened, the cupboard at Naaman looks to remain bare for a little while...

[Roughrider]

Somebody is trying to start something?????

[Bullshipper]

Garlands school records as compared to some of the other higher paying districts, I would think the Garland salaries are on the low low end. Several 4-A districts are paying 10/12 thousand more.

[Stranglehold]

The Dallas Morning News ran a great article on Head Football Coaches in the Metroplex.

Highest Paid Coach in Garland:

1. Bill Patterson - $81, 274
2. Mickey Moss - $80, 872
3. Jeff Jordan - $79, 702
4. David Farris - $77, 937
5. Kiff Hardin - $77, 747
6. Don Willis - $76, 614
7. Mark Behrens. $73, 170

Average Per WIN:
Highest - 1. Bill Patterson $81, 274
Lowest - 7. Jeff Jordan - $7, 970.20

How does a Coach that post records of 1-9, 3-7, 6-4, 8-3, 2-8, 1-9 make the most out of all of these coaches? That is a 21 - 40 record.

If I was those other Coaches I would be asking for a pay raise!!!!!!!

Yeah if I was the Jordan guy I sure would. All of those other guys are imports from other school districts--except Behrens. Jordan has been with GISD at least 15 years, taken the owls to the playoffs for 4 of his 5 years as head coach and 13 of the last 14 overall he has been at GHS and that is the kind of loyalty you get from your school district???? That is total horse$*@!
That must be the GISD way-->win or get fired(at one school anyway) and if you do win we still won't pay you as much as the the other guys in the district who lose or haven't been here as long as you.

[Roughrider]

Yeah if I was the Jordan guy I sure would. All of those other guys are imports from other school districts--except Behrens. Jordan has been with GISD at least 15 years, taken the owls to the playoffs for 4 of his 5 years as head coach and 13 of the last 14 overall he has been at GHS and that is the kind of loyalty you get from your school district???? That is total horse$*@!
That must be the GISD way-->win or get fired(at one school anyway) and if you do win we still won't pay you as much as the the other guys in the district who lose or haven't been here as long as you.


Yeah, I'd quit!!

[cloudofdust]

Maybe, just maybe, they are paid according to years of service in education????????????????????????????????? Novel concept!

[GTown02]

Maybe, just maybe, they are paid according to years of service in education????????????????????????????????? Novel concept!
Jordan has been a coach in GISD, and at Garland, for around 15 years... most of the other coaches havent been here half as long.

[swtbobcats]

Coach Hardin was been coaching for almost 30 years. I think he is the oldest of all the coaches. But I might be wrong?

[GTown02]

Coach Hardin was been coaching for almost 30 years. I think he is the oldest of all the coaches. But I might be wrong?
How long has he been in GISD? To be completely honest, I dont even know what team he coaches...:eek: Shows how much I know about a lot of the other Garland teams.

[GoOwls]

Yeah, I'd quit!!\


You'ld like that wouldn't you Rough?:D

[garlandowl08]

I don't mean to be a downer because if thats the salary range than Jordan should definately be the highest paid, but they are still making almost twice as much as my mom, who has taught in the GISD for 11 years and has taught a total of more than 20 years...the teacher salary should go up before the football coaches, in my opinion.

[GoOwls]

I don't mean to be a downer because if thats the salary range than Jordan should definately be the highest paid, but they are still making almost twice as much as my mom, who has taught in the GISD for 11 years and has taught a total of more than 20 years...the teacher salary should go up before the football coaches, in my opinion.

Does your mom teach econonics? Well, let me give you a lesson in HS Econonics 101.

Teachers are an expense. They cost money. Are they worth it.......heck yes, but they are an expense and must be paid for with income from some place.

Soccer, baseball, track, wrestling, tennis, golf, and to a large extent, basketball, along with any other UIL sponsored activities are non-revenue sports. Very little income, if any, comes in from these sports. The coaches must be paid for their services.

Football is the "cash cow" of high school sports. Football supports all the other sports. Without football, many of the other sports couldn't be funded on state and ISD tax money alone. The more successful a football team is, the more the whole sports program can flourish.

2 Examples:

Coach A, a capable, but not very innovative or inspirational coach has a 5-5 team each year and doesn't ever make the playoffs. They average 1,000 fans at each of 5 home games at $5 per ticket. On home games, his team earned $25,000 in school revenue.

Coach B, a really good coach who averages 9-1 in regular season over 10 years and averages 2 rounds deep into the playoffs figures like this. An average of 7,000 fans, per 5 home games, at $5 per ticket, totals to $175,000 dollars, plus 2 playoff games at 9,000 fans, at $8 per ticket, totals $144,000, for a total of $319,000 per year in income for the school or school district.

$319,000 as opposed to $25,000.........HMMMMMM..... don't think the administrators don't know math. A good coach is worth twice the money because of all the potential income he can bring to the district.

[Bullshipper]

Texas Prep. records say Hardin has been coaching 22 years, 18 as Head ;Coach. 8 play off appearance, 2 regional 1 State Championship

Should make him around 45.

[Stranglehold]

I don't mean to be a downer because if thats the salary range than Jordan should definately be the highest paid, but they are still making almost twice as much as my mom, who has taught in the GISD for 11 years and has taught a total of more than 20 years...the teacher salary should go up before the football coaches, in my opinion.

Your mother works about 40-45 hours a week probably---coaches average way over that amount.

[GTown02]

Your mother works about 40-45 hours a week probably---coaches average way over that amount.
Most teachers (like my mom) go in after school is out and spend time preparing for the rest of the week/next weeks lesson plans. I do agree that coaches spend more hours working than most teachers, But getting double the pay as regular teachers is nuts IMO... My mom has been teaching in Garland for around 16 years and she makes about half as much as football coaches...

[swtbobcats]

Make sure you all understand this is just for head coaches only. Assistant coaches don't make much more than teachers. There stipends are somewhat small, at least for the hours that they work.

My argument was that the head coach at Naaman Forest should not be paid the highest in Garland. Not with a record like that.

[garlandowl08]

I never said that head coaches don't deserve to be payed more and I would agree that Jordan should be one of if not hte highest paid in the district, but when my mom, a dedicated teacher who works 9-10 hours a day (goes in at 7:00 am, leaves at 4:30 or 5:00, on her feet actually teaching all day), wouldn't be able to support our family without my dad. I will likely get flamed for saying this, but in my mind, teaching is a far greater necessity than football coaching. That's my honest opinion and you can disagree with me if you want, but you won't change my mind.

[garlandowl08]

I'm not trying to talk trash or anything in asking this, but honestly who do you think would be more interested in a swap for a day or a week a teacher that got to become a coach or a coach that got to become a full time teacher?

[GTown02]

I never said that head coaches don't deserve to be payed more and I would agree that Jordan should be one of if not hte highest paid in the district, but when my mom, a dedicated teacher who works 9-10 hours a day (goes in at 7:00 am, leaves at 4:30 or 5:00, on her feet actually teaching all day), wouldn't be able to support our family without my dad. I will likely get flamed for saying this, but in my mind, teaching is a far greater necessity than football coaching. That's my honest opinion and you can disagree with me if you want, but you won't change my mind.
I completely agree, and wont ever change my mind.

[GoOwls]

I want you guys to understand that I agree that teachers are more important and should get as much, if not more, but in my post above, I was just explaining the economics of why it isn't that way and why it will never be that way.

[Stranglehold]

Most teachers (like my mom) go in after school is out and spend time preparing for the rest of the week/next weeks lesson plans. I do agree that coaches spend more hours working than most teachers, But getting double the pay as regular teachers is nuts IMO... My mom has been teaching in Garland for around 16 years and she makes about half as much as football coaches...

She might make half as much as the Head coaches but she probably makes about 3000 less than the assistant coaches and coaches of "other" sports. Let her work the assistants hours and see how bad she wants that extra 3,000. IMO coaches are worth every cent and are way underpaid as are teachers. The head football coach deserves every dime he gets....the assistant coaches/teachers are the ones on the short end.

[Stranglehold]

I never said that head coaches don't deserve to be payed more and I would agree that Jordan should be one of if not hte highest paid in the district, but when my mom, a dedicated teacher who works 9-10 hours a day (goes in at 7:00 am, leaves at 4:30 or 5:00, on her feet actually teaching all day), wouldn't be able to support our family without my dad. I will likely get flamed for saying this, but in my mind, teaching is a far greater necessity than football coaching. That's my honest opinion and you can disagree with me if you want, but you won't change my mind.

COACHES ARE ALSO TEACHERS. What exactly is your arguement? If you say that teachers are underpaid so are assistant coaches.

[garlandowl08]

COACHES ARE ALSO TEACHERS. What exactly is your arguement? If you say that teachers are underpaid so are assistant coaches.

Coaches are not full time teachers. Many assistant coaches only teach gym or health and then their sport. In my gym classes, the coaches almost always are late and most of the time just hang around with the other coaches. Everyone in the education area has to make sacrifices, in my opinion however, regular teachers make the biggest sacrifices.

[Roughrider]

Coaches are not full time teachers. Many assistant coaches only teach gym or health and then their sport. In my gym classes, the coaches almost always are late and most of the time just hang around with the other coaches. Everyone in the education area has to make sacrifices, in my opinion however, regular teachers make the biggest sacrifices.

I know of coaches that carry 2 core classes a day (block scheduled) then also have an athletic period to make 3 classes total.. Regular teachers on block teach only 3 classes a day. I know some teachers that sit behind their desk all day and play with the computer.. You are going to have teachers and coaches alike that don't do their job to the best of their ability.. Let's not lump them all together. I'm sure your mother choose her profession as did the coaches. When she got in it, I bet she wasn't under the assumption she was gonna make millions??

[Roughrider]

Oh, and while we are at it, you have stated that you are in band if I'm not mistaken. Whatever the case, you should check out the band directors schedules... None of them teach anything but band all day.. I bet the coaches would love to teach nothing but their sport(s) all day??? Don't limit your arguement to coaches...

[Stranglehold]

Coaches are not full time teachers. Many assistant coaches only teach gym or health and then their sport. In my gym classes, the coaches almost always are late and most of the time just hang around with the other coaches. Everyone in the education area has to make sacrifices, in my opinion however, regular teachers make the biggest sacrifices.

Coaches are full-time teachers. Teachers on a block schedule teach 3 periods out of a 4 period day. Teacher/Coaches teach 2 and have and athletic period. On top of all that None of those coaches have a conference period as your mother does. If they do--I assure you they don't get to use it for anything other than what the head coach dictates. Since you are in a gym class it is obvious you are not involved in any school athletic program. How can you comment on the jobs of coaches if you are not even there to witness what they do? As for the being late--there is no excuse for that. But on any given day especially Friday) there will be 20-30 teachers who don't show up for school that day and call in a substitute but I will bet you none of them are coaches. Don't kid yourself son--Regular teachers have just as many flaws as coaches, and even though your mother may not be one of those with flaws she will continue to lumped into that category because of people making stereotypical comments. Just as you have made about coaches

[Stranglehold]

I know of coaches that carry 2 core classes a day (block scheduled) then also have an athletic period to make 3 classes total.. Regular teachers on block teach only 3 classes a day. I know some teachers that sit behind their desk all day and play with the computer.. You are going to have teachers and coaches alike that don't do their job to the best of their ability.. Let's not lump them all together. I'm sure your mother choose her profession as did the coaches. When she got in it, I bet she wasn't under the assumption she was gonna make millions??

Good call it is good to hear from someone with some common sense.

[cloudofdust]

I coach and teach 2 core classes, go to athletics and get home at 6:00pm. I grade papers and do lesson plans just like your mom. I also work Saturdays and Sundays from Aug.-Nov. Go to track meets, powerlifting meets on Saturdays. Work fall break, Christmas Break, open the weightroom in the summers, do laundry, fieldhouse repairs, move water pipes, and a thousand other things your mom doesn't do. Am I complaining? No you are because I am compensated a very "small degree" monetarily if paid by the hour. Yes I said small, your mom gets all holidays and summer to relax and even work another job if she sees fit. You complain about coaches, I take your comment personally because I've been around the argument coaches are overpaid, B.S.!!!!!!!! We teach, counsel, give kids rides home, make sure their grades are good, we spend more time with those same kids your mom teaches except we spend double the amount she does! Bad mouthing your mom, no sir, not at all, defending my chosen profession!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[garlandowl08]

I coach and teach 2 core classes, go to athletics and get home at 6:00pm. I grade papers and do lesson plans just like your mom. I also work Saturdays and Sundays from Aug.-Nov. Go to track meets, powerlifting meets on Saturdays. Work fall break, Christmas Break, open the weightroom in the summers, do laundry, fieldhouse repairs, move water pipes, and a thousand other things your mom doesn't do. Am I complaining? No you are because I am compensated a very "small degree" monetarily if paid by the hour. Yes I said small, your mom gets all holidays and summer to relax and even work another job if she sees fit. You complain about coaches, I take your comment personally because I've been around the argument coaches are overpaid, B.S.!!!!!!!! We teach, counsel, give kids rides home, make sure their grades are good, we spend more time with those same kids your mom teaches except we spend double the amount she does! Bad mouthing your mom, no sir, not at all, defending my chosen profession!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I think it is very honorable that the coaches do what they do and to be honest I didn't think they worked as hard as they did. I still think teachers are underpaid, but that's just me. Basically the whole education profession is underpaid except maybe the head football coach (up for debate). My mom actually teaches elementary school (7 or 8 classes a day) and has students that range from gifted and talented (extremely smart) to the "neighborhood" students. She works very hard and many days does not have a conference period. Also, at least at her school all teachers are required to have tutorials at least twice a week in the afternoon and many (including my mom) teach in extended day programs. During most of the year, my mom is at her school on Mondays and Tuesdays until about 5:00 or 5:30, and has to be there at 6:45 every other thursday (her school starts at 7:50). She is one of the most hardworking teachers in the school and spends many saturdays at math meets because she helps coach the Math/Science team. She does not get paid for any of it except a little for the extended day classes. The point is many teachers work just as hard as coaches but still couldn't pay teh bills without some sort of other income. I know that is the case for my mom.

Also, not to be rude because I realize that this is just the way of life, but many coaches are far less receptive to regular students. In my experience in gym classes, not a single coach since elementary school has learned my name.

Finally, I take it that it is fair to say that besides the subject matter, you would rather be a teacher than a coach. I realize you probably really enjoy coaching but if you enjoyed teaching just as much you would like to switch to it becuase of "less work" and "comparable pay"?

[GarlandOwl06]

Well not all coaches are like our coaches..... I know coach Les like edford for Berkner get to work around 5 to start watching film and planning out the day of practice and what not. I also know that during the spring he goes to every team in there districts spring game and also later scrimmages unlike our coach who is too busy in thailand and selling electricity all summer.

[Roughrider]

thailand and selling electricity all summer.


????????????????????????? What's that about?

[Stranglehold]

Well not all coaches are like our coaches..... I know coach Les like edford for Berkner get to work around 5 to start watching film and planning out the day of practice and what not. I also know that during the spring he goes to every team in there districts spring game and also later scrimmages unlike our coach who is too busy in thailand and selling electricity all summer.

At last another idiot speaks. It is always nice to call someone out when you can hide behind a computer screen. I will bet you have never even met Coach Ledford from Berkner. I have no idea what you are talking about but I will bet you are someone that hardly ever gets any p.t. (I will also bet you are easy to spot on the sideline) I believe your coaches(if you actually do play) took you to the third round this last year-----Yep that's a horrible job all right. Sounds like you have some sour grapes.

[Stranglehold]

Well not all coaches are like our coaches..... I know coach Les like edford for Berkner get to work around 5 to start watching film and planning out the day of practice and what not. I also know that during the spring he goes to every team in there districts spring game and also later scrimmages unlike our coach who is too busy in thailand and selling electricity all summer.


Here is a thought 06-----if you are that unhappy or think so little of your coaches----TRANSFER OR QUIT!!!!
Try private school it will probably mesh with your sheltered make-up.

[GarlandOwl06]

hey stranglehold tell me what good that would do seeing as my username is garlandowl06 meaning im a senior but it was a good try on your response. Hey all im stating is facts. Ive talked to coaches around the plano richardson area and they have stated that at the beginning of the year college recruiters said garland had the top five overall amount of talent in the state of Texas and you see what he does with it. I guarantee i can predict exactly what will happen next year. Will have all the talent in the world head into district with a 2-1 3-0 record, ease through district with a close game against south then go 1 or 2 rounds. Its the same thing every yearl. Im not saying jordan is a bad coach but he will not be able to take garland to that next level but he aint goin nowhere because of district dominance due to the amount of talent.

And actually for you information Coach Ledford goes to my church at The Heights Baptist church so good try on that one too your almost there. Hey just go ask coach Jordan what he did all summer and he will tell you took a trip to thailand and sold electricity on the side for extra income. You act like i dont know what im talkin about but i do. Ive talked to Ledford ive talked to the principal at Irving Mcarthur who my family is good friends with who also happened to be a former garland coach under jordan so im just repeating what they have said

[Stallion]

I coach and teach 2 core classes, go to athletics and get home at 6:00pm. I grade papers and do lesson plans just like your mom. I also work Saturdays and Sundays from Aug.-Nov. Go to track meets, powerlifting meets on Saturdays. Work fall break, Christmas Break, open the weightroom in the summers, do laundry, fieldhouse repairs, move water pipes, and a thousand other things your mom doesn't do. Am I complaining? No you are because I am compensated a very "small degree" monetarily if paid by the hour. Yes I said small, your mom gets all holidays and summer to relax and even work another job if she sees fit. You complain about coaches, I take your comment personally because I've been around the argument coaches are overpaid, B.S.!!!!!!!! We teach, counsel, give kids rides home, make sure their grades are good, we spend more time with those same kids your mom teaches except we spend double the amount she does! Bad mouthing your mom, no sir, not at all, defending my chosen profession!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You forgot to mention the higher risk of losing your job because the team doesn't draw enough fans to the games...

[gldneagles]

Does your mom teach econonics? Well, let me give you a lesson in HS Econonics 101.

Teachers are an expense. They cost money. Are they worth it.......heck yes, but they are an expense and must be paid for with income from some place.

Soccer, baseball, track, wrestling, tennis, golf, and to a large extent, basketball, along with any other UIL sponsored activities are non-revenue sports. Very little income, if any, comes in from these sports. The coaches must be paid for their services.

Football is the "cash cow" of high school sports. Football supports all the other sports. Without football, many of the other sports couldn't be funded on state and ISD tax money alone. The more successful a football team is, the more the whole sports program can flourish.

2 Examples:

Coach A, a capable, but not very innovative or inspirational coach has a 5-5 team each year and doesn't ever make the playoffs. They average 1,000 fans at each of 5 home games at $5 per ticket. On home games, his team earned $25,000 in school revenue.

Coach B, a really good coach who averages 9-1 in regular season over 10 years and averages 2 rounds deep into the playoffs figures like this. An average of 7,000 fans, per 5 home games, at $5 per ticket, totals to $175,000 dollars, plus 2 playoff games at 9,000 fans, at $8 per ticket, totals $144,000, for a total of $319,000 per year in income for the school or school district.

$319,000 as opposed to $25,000.........HMMMMMM..... don't think the administrators don't know math. A good coach is worth twice the money because of all the potential income he can bring to the district.
this is about the dumbest thing i have ever seen on this board. anyone who thinks hs football even makes enough to pay for itself has no real knowledge of the real world.

[Roughrider]

this is about the dumbest thing i have ever seen on this board. anyone who thinks hs football even makes enough to pay for itself has no real knowledge of the real world.

Depends on where you are at.. Plenty of high schools that football not only pays for itself but helps keep the other sports afloat!

[GoOwls]

this is about the dumbest thing i have ever seen on this board. anyone who thinks hs football even makes enough to pay for itself has no real knowledge of the real world.

I used a real-life situation a showed with numbers and facts how a successful football program can bring in a huge amount of revenue as opposed to a not so successful program. You don't agree with it, and that makes it dumb to you, but the facts are facts. Each playoff game brings in tens of thousands of dollars to a program and the school district, which creates an eccess of funds, over the planned budget, that allows the funds intended to be used for athletics to be re-allocated to other educational programs or non-revenue generating sports programs. It may pay for the bus and per-diem for the cross-country team to go to the area meet, for instance.

I suggest that before you open your obviously uneducated yap on a subject you know nothing about, that you have some knowledge of the operational knowledge of the subject you are talking about. It also helps to know, and regularly speak to the AD of your school district that has held the job for 45 years. I didn't just pull the numbers out of my rear end.

[Roughrider]

I used a real-life situation a showed with numbers and facts how a successful football program can bring in a huge amount of revenue as opposed to a not so successful program. You don't agree with it, and that makes it dumb to you, but the facts are facts. Each playoff game brings in tens of thousands of dollars to a program and the school district, which creates an eccess of funds, over the planned budget, that allows the funds intended to be used for athletics to be re-allocated to other educational programs or non-revenue generating sports programs. It may pay for the bus and per-diem for the cross-country team to go to the area meet, for instance.

I suggest that before you open your obviously uneducated yap on a subject you know nothing about, that you have some knowledge of the operational knowledge of the subject you are talking about. It also helps to know, and regularly speak to the AD of your school district that has held the job for 45 years. I didn't just pull the numbers out of my rear end.

Ditto!! And don't even get me to talking about how much the band brings in!!! HAHA

[GoOwls]

Ditto!! And don't even get me to talking about how much the band brings in!!! HAHA

Band revenue??!! HA:D

You're a funny guy Rough.

What's this world coming to Rough? You and me on the same side agreeing again.......IT'S A MIRACLE!!!!:D :D

[Stranglehold]

hey stranglehold tell me what good that would do seeing as my username is garlandowl06 meaning im a senior but it was a good try on your response. Hey all im stating is facts. Ive talked to coaches around the plano richardson area and they have stated that at the beginning of the year college recruiters said garland had the top five overall amount of talent in the state of Texas and you see what he does with it. I guarantee i can predict exactly what will happen next year. Will have all the talent in the world head into district with a 2-1 3-0 record, ease through district with a close game against south then go 1 or 2 rounds. Its the same thing every yearl. Im not saying jordan is a bad coach but he will not be able to take garland to that next level but he aint goin nowhere because of district dominance due to the amount of talent.

And actually for you information Coach Ledford goes to my church at The Heights Baptist church so good try on that one too your almost there. Hey just go ask coach Jordan what he did all summer and he will tell you took a trip to thailand and sold electricity on the side for extra income. You act like i dont know what im talkin about but i do. Ive talked to Ledford ive talked to the principal at Irving Mcarthur who my family is good friends with who also happened to be a former garland coach under jordan so im just repeating what they have said

Well, I didn't realize we had Dave Campbell on this site. That must be who you are to have all this time to traverse the "area" and talk to high school coaches and college recruiters and rate high school programs. You also said that these "Plano/Richardson area coaches told you that numerous college recruiters had told them that Garland had top 5 talent" First of all if I was in court I would have to object on the basis of heresay and secondly that is total BS. Check the number of D-1 signee's from Garland and other schools this year and see what you come up with. What does Garland have this year 2? Not only that; 2 of their best players missed the majority of the season with injuries and or grades.(Sloan, Williams? It is no secret that strictly on a talent basis South has had more than you guys for the past 2 years. (Defensive player of the year and more D-1 signees) Anyone who doubts that should go to the district track meet this year. So I would say the fact that you beat South this year was a big deal, and a good job by your team and your coaches
Personally, I think you are full of it but you are entitled to your own opinion. I would like to clarify a few things: by principal at McArthur I assume you mean Dan Cummings. I know Mr. Cummings and I assure you he would never say anything like that. I also know Coach Ledford well enough to know he wouldn't try to undermine someone else's program with the comments that you attribute to him. Sound's like to me perhaps you are a player who maybe did not get as much P/T as you or your parents would have liked and now you are somewhat bitter about it. In closing, I don't know what going to Thailand and making extra income has to do with anything. Last time I checked the only thing that goes on in the summer is 7 on 7. A coach has the right to spend time with his family and go on vacation(I assume that is why he was in Thailand) and as far as a second jobs go I think you will find that lots of teachers and coaches have them. I would like to commend the coaching staff at GHS--Not only for having a great year and going to the third round, but also for surviving "players" such as yourself whose only purpose is to undermine what they are trying to build.

[GoOwls]

Now this is just an old mans' opinion, but since the 1999 championship year, we've had 6 teams and I would argue that there are at least 3 teams with more talent than this years team and that this was Jordan's best coaching job yet. He did way more with thtis squad than I thought he could. I think he is growing very nicely as a coach.

You kids better tap the brakes on next years team. We are graduating a number of critical players and no one is coming from the JV that can replace that talent. The JV was horrible. The Freshmen, who will be Sophmores, are the talented bunch. There will have to be at least 6 sophs. who contribute in a major way next year for us to make the playoffs, much less worry about a deep run.

Mark this down as my very early prediction for next season.

Remember my similar one about South last year and their QB situation. I was right, until they found the new kid in mid-season.(forgot his name)?

[Stranglehold]

What's wrong 06? No response? I thought you had all the answers and solutions. By the way I spoke to Coach Ledford and I am pretty sure I know who you are now. Everything I said about being bitter and playing very little appears to be right on target.

[GarlandOwl06]

did you seriously just say that this year garland only has 2 d-1 signees???? get your facts straight as of right now we have 3 commits(Brummit Antwine and Mcdowell) and tim crosby just committed to SMU so that makes 4. John Murphy and Dante Sloan have yet to commit so there goes 5 and 6 once again good try. Hey im not sayin that coaches can't go on vacation and do absolutley nothing football related over the summer but if you want to take it to that next level than you will. I already told you what ledford does and can guarantee all the great coaches like outlaw and dodge are workin hard over the summer and making there teams play 7 on 7 over. See if Garland ever plays 7 on 7 yea they dont but remember we are trying to improve the passing game. How has south had more talent over the last two years??? because they had a good track team last year???? Didn't Garland have two players that were all state honorable mention???? How many did south have??? and wasnt the defense of sophmore of the year from Garland again for the 3rd time in a row(crosby, horn, aghayhere). Actually a aTm recruiter came to basketball practice to watch Chauncey and Marquise and he was talkin about how much talent Garland has year in and year out when me and coach bullit were talkin to him. And how are you gonna tell me i dont know ledford and cummings when ledford and his family goes to my church and cummings was actually the person who drove my brother up to and got him a scholarshiip at the college he was at. For some reason you think i am some player that didnt play or something thats another good guess on your part gah you are so freakin smart so you better go talk to ledford again moron. Coach jordan is a great guy and hes gonna give you a nice season every year ( compete for a district crown based on talent, and go a few rounds in the playoffs) but he is not gonna take this team to a state contending team. Dont get me wrong i hope he does but he wont.

Theres your response :rolleyes:

[Stranglehold]

did you seriously just say that this year garland only has 2 d-1 signees???? get your facts straight as of right now we have 3 commits(Brummit Antwine and Mcdowell) and tim crosby just committed to SMU so that makes 4. John Murphy and Dante Sloan have yet to commit so there goes 5 and 6 once again good try. Hey im not sayin that coaches can't go on vacation and do absolutley nothing football related over the summer but if you want to take it to that next level than you will. I already told you what ledford does and can guarantee all the great coaches like outlaw and dodge are workin hard over the summer and making there teams play 7 on 7 over. See if Garland ever plays 7 on 7 yea they dont but remember we are trying to improve the passing game. How has south had more talent over the last two years??? because they had a good track team last year???? Didn't Garland have two players that were all state honorable mention???? How many did south have??? and wasnt the defense of sophmore of the year from Garland again for the 3rd time in a row(crosby, horn, aghayhere). Actually a aTm recruiter came to basketball practice to watch Chauncey and Marquise and he was talkin about how much talent Garland has year in and year out when me and coach bullit were talkin to him. And how are you gonna tell me i dont know ledford and cummings when ledford and his family goes to my church and cummings was actually the person who drove my brother up to and got him a scholarshiip at the college he was at. For some reason you think i am some player that didnt play or something thats another good guess on your part gah you are so freakin smart so you better go talk to ledford again moron. Coach jordan is a great guy and hes gonna give you a nice season every year ( compete for a district crown based on talent, and go a few rounds in the playoffs) but he is not gonna take this team to a state contending team. Dont get me wrong i hope he does but he wont.

Theres your response :rolleyes:
Well you got me there---I had forgotton about Brumit and Tech. Crosby signing with SMU came after this post started and I will venture that no one thought he would go D-1. What were his other choices? Louisianna-Monroe?
Murphy will not go D-1 and neither will Sloan(grades) So basically what you are saying is if Garland wants to go to the next level they need to compete in 7 on 7 in the summer? Check the last 10 7 on 7 state champions and see how many backed it up with a state championship in the fall. I know of only two so that slightly messes with your arguement.
Yes, and the offensive sophomore of the year and the defensive player of the year were from South Garland. Garland does not have a single kid ranked in the top 50 of any category(passing yardage, rushing yardage, recieving yardage, tackles, interceptions) statewide when I checked last night South had at least one in every category except rushing. Don't get me wrong I think Garland does have talent year in and year out---but top 5? That is ridiculous. If that is the case then South and North had top 3 talent.(Bean, Medford, Morrison,Linwood, Love, Anyiam) Where does that leave Southlake, Katy, Smithson Valley,Trinity,South Grand Prairie, Converse Judson, Abilene, Allen, Lufkin, Longview etc.......I will say this--if I am a moron it is not because I let other peoples opinions influence me, nor is it because I go around and try to make myself look better by commenting to anyone who will listen about what other people have that I don't. I think it it pretty lowly of your beloved coach ledford to have conversations about an opposing program to a player involved in that program. That is why I still have trouble believing that he actually said that.....anyone with any common sense knows that is wrong.
Last thing, lets talk about taking it to that next level. You are probably right: is has everything to do with playing 7 on 7 in the summer and nothing to do with what you(and your team) do over the summer. Questions like how many of you worked out during the summer, or how often, or how many seniors were there, how often you boozed it up and had underclassman with you,and many many others come to mind. All I ask is be a realist. You guys had a great year. I think your team should be commended because IMO you guys are not nearly as talented as the others that made it as far as you did(including Berkner) Be happy with what you accomplished but don't try to tear down your program just because you are a senior and are leaving. As a former coach I always asked my seniors to leave a legacy for the underclassman to follow. That legacy should not be gripe and complain.

[Stranglehold]

One other thing. 4X56636499 hit it right on the head about tapping the breaks. You should be helping to build up the sophmore class at this time. They will need your help next year.

[dominoeplayer]

;) So, Strangehold, what position do you coach at Garland High? Someone that has as much inside info and knows the people that you say you know must be a coach for GHS. Just Curious.

[GarlandOwl06]

Stranglehold your putting words in my mouth here and once again citing wrong information. Actually Murphy if he passes his sat already has offers from Michigan State, Southern Arkansas, and Minnesotta and as for Crosby his other choices were Minnesota, Tulane, and Wyoming and Sloan has been looking at Minnesota, Southern Arkansas and other smaller D-1 schools so your wrong there again. Let me throw something else at you.... you continously say SG has more talent then garland but who won the district championship and had 22 players named on the all district team and 6 honorable mention while SG had 13. Also next year if you want to go look it up Garland has 3 players ranked in the top 100 in the state how many does south have?????? Malcolm Williams is the number 9 recruit in the state and the number 1 wr recruit, Marquise Frazier is the number 22 recruit in the state at de and Johnny Wooten is the number 95 recruit in the state at RB so explain were the more talented south players are on these rankings i cant find them. Do you realize that the copperas cove coach made Brandon Antwine sign his offensive playbook because he said Antwine was the best DT in highschool he had seen. No im not saying SG doesnt have its fair share of good players or saying in order for garland to take it to the next level all they have to do is play 7 on 7 in the summer but its small things like 7 on 7 that will put a team like garland who needs to improve there passing a step closer to making that next level. Lufkin, Katy, SLC, CC, and Plano are in it so why shouldnt we? Garland most importantly just needs to work on the small things like discipline, knowing your assignment, not getting penalties wich improved much this year, not biting on every play fake, having good timing and running good pass routes. And on Berkner they do have some good talent but they execute that triple option to perfection. Coach Ledford does such a good job of perperation and film study. Just look to see how many tackles Jared Knorton had in that game like 3. When your a team like Garland who is so good every year with the type of talent we get you expect a little more because thats what good teams do. How many district championships does garland have to win to get some respect from the rest of the district.

[Stranglehold]

;) So, Strangehold, what position do you coach at Garland High? Someone that has as much inside info and knows the people that you say you know must be a coach for GHS. Just Curious.

Well dominoe you are almost right. I am a former coach at GHS and do know quite a lot about the program there. However if you wish to test my knowledge you will find I know quite a bit about lots of programs in the DFW area because I know quite a lot of the coaches around here. I will not tell you where I am currently at because that is self-defeating. I will say that given the chance to coach at Garland again I would take it in a heartbeat. Those guys do a good job IMO. They are not alone, there are a lot of good programs in this area. It just always incences me when someone makes an unvalidated comment(i.e....top 5 talent) I would welcome anyone to ask around and see if they think that is true.

[Stranglehold]

If you win the district championship then you should have more players chosen to the all-district team. If you feel that GHS does not get respect from the rest of the district or teams outside of it I will have to disagree with that. All the players you listed are juniors and that is fine, but lots of things can and sometimes do happen during the course of a year. The Antwine kid--you are right he must be phenomenal--but those kids are the exception not the rule at any program. Look---I am tired of this arguement. All I ask is form your own opionions. If that is really the way you feel after playing for GHS then great---but don't let yourself be influenced by other people. That is my main gripe here. Especially people from other programs who have nothing to lose and everything to gain. My purpose here is not to influence you but merely to disagree with you. I think Garland has good talent from year to year, I just don't think they are top 5 material.

[GarlandOwl06]

My argument was that this year garland had top 5 talent not just among the senior class but as a team whole as indicated to me by other coaches. Yes Garland does a great job every year but my other argument is with Jordan i just dont think Garland will ever compete for a state championship again. Since he has been coach Garland has the same weaknesses every year. The wing-t is more than just 34 35 and belly. There is soo many plays to run out of it. Garland has got to open the passing game up and next year would be a great year to do it even though at the beginning of every season for the past four years it has been said we are going to pass it more but that always falls through. The state team had so many plays and put the ball in the hands of the playmakers. You would have heart up the middle, mills on a pich, then lewis rogers off the end for 40 yard td. But I also remember in the playoffs Roberts had more passing yards than in the regular season which says alot. In the state game he had 175 yards and 3 or 4 td's to Mills and Harris. Another thing is that Garland does not seem to adjust its gameplan ever. Sometimes you just gotta go with what works like when joe martin in 95 against plano had a 3 point lead at the beginning of the 4th quarter with the ball on the 10 yard line and ken bohannon got the ball 16 times in a row and Garland knelt the ball on the goal line with 1 30 left. Im sorry i sound so negative and im not saying Jordan is just a garbage coach but i know garland has the talent to be a state contender and it dissapoints me that we havn't.

Stranglehold were you here under Martin or Jordan.

[Stranglehold]

My argument was that this year garland had top 5 talent not just among the senior class but as a team whole as indicated to me by other coaches. Yes Garland does a great job every year but my other argument is with Jordan i just dont think Garland will ever compete for a state championship again. Since he has been coach Garland has the same weaknesses every year. The wing-t is more than just 34 35 and belly. There is soo many plays to run out of it. Garland has got to open the passing game up and next year would be a great year to do it even though at the beginning of every season for the past four years it has been said we are going to pass it more but that always falls through. The state team had so many plays and put the ball in the hands of the playmakers. You would have heart up the middle, mills on a pich, then lewis rogers off the end for 40 yard td. But I also remember in the playoffs Roberts had more passing yards than in the regular season which says alot. In the state game he had 175 yards and 3 or 4 td's to Mills and Harris. Another thing is that Garland does not seem to adjust its gameplan ever. Sometimes you just gotta go with what works like when joe martin in 95 against plano had a 3 point lead at the beginning of the 4th quarter with the ball on the 10 yard line and ken bohannon got the ball 16 times in a row and Garland knelt the ball on the goal line with 1 30 left. Im sorry i sound so negative and im not saying Jordan is just a garbage coach but i know garland has the talent to be a state contender and it dissapoints me that we havn't.

Stranglehold were you here under Martin or Jordan.

Martin--

Just remember this---sometimes the other team dictates what you can and cannot do. I remember the game with Bohanon of which you speak. Garland was able to do that because they were better than Plano. When you can run the ball 16 times in a row that speaks volumes about how much better you are than the opposition. The 99 team was a special team with special players and honestly I haven't seen many teams that were as talented as that group was. Remember that it takes much more than talent to get to a state championship. You have to stay healthy, you have to have great senior leadership, you have to have great off-season and summer programs,you have to have great team chemistry, you need school support, community support etc.........All the stars have to fall into place for a state championship to occur. Being in a 7 high school town does not help things any....talent is spread out----support is spread out----facilities---the list goes on. If you are a program in a 1 high school town---you are the focus of the entire community I'm not saying that makes it any easier to win but that is one less thing working against you. What other area programs can boast the same success that Garland has had over the last 10-15 years? Even if you take since Jordan has been the head coach ya'll have been to the playoffs 4 out of 5 years. In those 4 years you have been beat in the the 1st round twice,(once by the eventual state champion, once by a state quarterfinalist) the area round once and the regional semi-finals once. That is a pretty good track record. I don't know of many other 5A programs that wouldn't take that right now if they could get it.(maybe Trinity, Carter)

[GarlandOwl06]

I do agree with you there that team was somethin special. It was just too bad that martin and his staff (including you) had to leave. The thing about that team was that everyone played there roll. You had your playmakers on defense in Keelan, Ruben, and Lewis and then guys who just got it done every week like T.J. Riley, Maurice Manus, Gerald Mills and Marcus then you had Jon Allen being the vocal leader of the defense. On offense you had team leaders Nate and Donte then you had guys like Keith Mills, Nathaniel Harris and the massive offensive lines. The team leaned on each other but a big part of that was Martin. He evaluated talent and put his playmakers on the field at all times i.e. Lewis Rogers the Db/De/Wb/Rb/Fb......... He also put his smartest players on the field like Nate who couldn't throw a spiral to save his life or even hit the broadside of a barn in practice, but when it came to game time he carried out those fakes and put the ball right were it needed to be and instilled confidence in the rest of his team. Martin demanded respect and unity of his teams and demanded discipline which is something that has been lacking since he left. He didnt care who you were or how good you were and they realized that after a halftime in which they witnessed a table being flipped over. I love reminiscing on that team.......do you care to tell what you coached in your time here stranglehold????

[Stranglehold]

06

I probably shouldn't. My current employer may not appreciate some of the comments I have made. Are you going to continue playing football in college? If so, good luck and if not good luck as well.

[garlandowl08]

Caaaan You Feeeeeel The Looooove Toniiiight?!

[Stranglehold]

Caaaan You Feeeeeel The Looooove Toniiiight?!
08
I must admit I laughed out loud when I read that. I do however prefer respect over love anyday. Thanks for playing.

[garlandowl08]

08
I must admit I laughed out loud when I read that. I do however prefer respect over love anyday. Thanks for playing.

Ouch...you got me with that one...I've really enjoyed reading this debate.

[Roughrider]

Ouch...you got me with that one...I've really enjoyed reading this debate.

You two need to get a HOTEL!!! Hold hands on your own time!! We gonna argue about something or what??????

[GarlandOwl06]

lol I actually agree with you rough for once.

[garlandowl08]

Ok, let me defend myself. I was trying to relieve some tension, becasue the debate was getting heated...so I threw in a little joke...suddenly im a gay cowboy...

(I am not really a gay cowboy...don't go there)

[thisisfeedingwhatiam]

Can you say "Brokeback Mountain"?

[garlandowl08]

set you up for that...

[OWLBAIT]

Stranglehold your putting words in my mouth here and once again citing wrong information. Actually Murphy if he passes his sat already has offers from Michigan State, Southern Arkansas, and Minnesotta and as for Crosby his other choices were Minnesota, Tulane, and Wyoming and Sloan has been looking at Minnesota, Southern Arkansas and other smaller D-1 schools so your wrong there again. Let me throw something else at you.... you continously say SG has more talent then garland but who won the district championship and had 22 players named on the all district team and 6 honorable mention while SG had 13. Also next year if you want to go look it up Garland has 3 players ranked in the top 100 in the state how many does south have?????? Malcolm Williams is the number 9 recruit in the state and the number 1 wr recruit, Marquise Frazier is the number 22 recruit in the state at de and Johnny Wooten is the number 95 recruit in the state at RB so explain were the more talented south players are on these rankings i cant find them. Do you realize that the copperas cove coach made Brandon Antwine sign his offensive playbook because he said Antwine was the best DT in highschool he had seen. No im not saying SG doesnt have its fair share of good players or saying in order for garland to take it to the next level all they have to do is play 7 on 7 in the summer but its small things like 7 on 7 that will put a team like garland who needs to improve there passing a step closer to making that next level. Lufkin, Katy, SLC, CC, and Plano are in it so why shouldnt we? Garland most importantly just needs to work on the small things like discipline, knowing your assignment, not getting penalties wich improved much this year, not biting on every play fake, having good timing and running good pass routes. And on Berkner they do have some good talent but they execute that triple option to perfection. Coach Ledford does such a good job of perperation and film study. Just look to see how many tackles Jared Knorton had in that game like 3. When your a team like Garland who is so good every year with the type of talent we get you expect a little more because thats what good teams do. How many district championships does garland have to win to get some respect from the rest of the district.
I would say Berkner had a little more than just good talent. See the DMN article?

[GarlandOwl06]

But they did not have better talent than garland did this year.