Lee's Owens Visits Ohio

[supercentex]

LEE'S OWENS VISITS OHIO


The state of Ohio wants to beat Texas in high school football - badly.


According to Robert E. Lee head coach Mike Owens, that was the common theme of Saturday's news conference held as part of the 60th Annual Ohio North-South Classic at Crew Stadium in Columbus, Ohio.

Owens was featured with Cincinnati Colerain head coach Kerry Coombs and the coaches from Westerville North and Westerville South.

All will take part in the first Kirk Herbstreit Ohio vs. USA Challenge Sept. 9, a high school football doubleheader, at Crew Stadium. State rivals Westerville North and South will battle one another in the first game with Lee and Colerain - both defending state champions - meeting in the second game.

"I know this, they want some of us, big time," Owens said. "It's just like the title said. It's Ohio vs. the nation, and we just happen to be the one they are versus. That was made clear at the press conference."

Owens said the Westerville coaches got into the act, and they aren't even playing Lee.

"They are playing each other, and all they could talk about was our game and this is a chance for Ohio to prove it's the best football state," Owens said. "This will definitely be a hostile environment. It will be 24,000 people, and 20,000 of them will be Ohio people, but I am looking forward to it."

Lee is scheduled to meet Colerain at 9 p.m. EST, and pending UIL approval, the game will be televised nationally on ESPN-U.

Owens spent Friday and Saturday in Columbus, viewing Crew Stadium and the facilities at Ohio State University while also meeting Buckeyes head coach Jim Tressell.

"It's a great venue," Owens said of Crew Stadium. "It looks (like it can hold more than) 24,000 people.

"It's a good stadium because all the seats are right down on top of you."

Owens said he was also impressed with Ohio's All-Star game, saying it was "very different" from the Texas High School Coaches All-Star Game.

"They play a real all-star game, picking the best players in the state, regardless of classification or school," Owens said. "In our game, we can only have one player from one school, and each region and classification has to be represented."

Lee earned a No. 3 ranking in Class 5A in the recent preseason rankings by Dave Campbell's Texas Football. Owens said he is honored by the ranking, but added they are usually based on past history.

"It's a nice respect deal, but it's where we are 15 weeks later that matters," Owens said.

Notes: Colerain head coach Kerry Coombs also addressed the media at the news conference, heaping more of the same praise on the Lee football team and Texas football that he did in Tyler ... ESPN-U is a premium sports channel that can be purchased by calling Cox Cable or your local satellite provider.

[Texasfrog]

Ya, Supercentex.. make no mistake about it. This is clearly Ohio's Superbowl game of the year. I'm sure they want to win this game more than an Ohio state title.

Is it going to be played on ESPN-U ??? Anyone know ??

[NewSherriffInTown]

Yea, they definitely want this game more than any game against an Ohio team.


I really think Lee might have a hard time because of that. All the pressure is squarely on them, and it's not a game thats really worth the pressure.

I'm sure Owens will do a good job of getting his kids to realize that this game is about defending their entire state.


"Ohio vs USA" definitely bothers me. Ohio has no business thinking they deserve to be matched up against the USA.

It's like in dodgeball or something when you and one of your buddies says "okay its us vs ALL of you"

in this instance, the "us" is like two 12 years olds saying they'll take on ten 18 year olds...It just doesn't make sense.

[Texasfrog]

That's also the reason why I like 2 year "Home and Home" contracts in big games like this even though its High school.

It helps keep alot of things on the up & up when the first "HOME TEAM" knows they will have to make the return trip the following year.

Things seem to always work out better when their is a 2 year contract.

Also.. like I said before. I hope they get an officiating crew out of another State that is somewhere between Texas & Ohio (Missouri & Kentucky). A little Yellow hanky here and there and the whole game can be changed fast if you know what I mean. I dont want to see some "HOMER REF" from Ohio decide that he wants to be Colerain 12th man on the field.

[supercentex]

That's what I was talking about in the past.........they are the ones making it out to be the big deal...........I don't think Coach Owens realized that until he was up there yesterday.

I would like to see all the Texas fans buy up alot of the tickets to 'neutralize' the crowd and the Lee band go up there.

[dragonsdaddy]

speaking of the hankies. i remember there have been lots of trons wasted discussing the eca refs and how they tried to influence their home games. you have got to think owens thought of that and demanded some neutral officials. btw, what rules differences will be in place between ohio and texas?

[Texasfrog]

speaking of the hankies. i remember there have been lots of trons wasted discussing the eca refs and how they tried to influence their home games. you have got to think owens thought of that and demanded some neutral officials. btw, what rules differences will be in place between ohio and texas?

Texas plays by NCAA rules and Ohio plays by American Federation rules ( I think). Most of the big differences are the blocking and a few on Special teams.

I hope Coach Owens thought of that. I asked another REL coach that question about 2 months ago and he wasnt sure about it which scares me.

I can tell you another Texas vs Louisiana game which was played in Louisiana a few years ago that it was 100% obvious that the Louisiana "REFs" were the 12th man for the Louisiana team. I was there and many of the Louisiana nuetral fans even were yelling that many of the calls were "you know what."

Make no mistake.. a few little "yellow flags" can change a game quick. Everybody knows you can call a "holding penality" on every play if you know what I mean.

[supercentex]

Texas plays by NCAA rules and Ohio plays by American Federation rules ( I think). Most of the big differences are the blocking and a few on Special teams.

I hope Coach Owens thought of that. I asked another REL coach that question about 2 months ago and he wasnt sure about it which scares me.

I can tell you another Texas vs Louisiana game which was played in Louisiana a few years ago that it was 100% obvious that the Louisiana "REFs" were the 12th man for the Louisiana team. I was there and many of the Louisiana nuetral fans even were yelling that many of the calls were "you know what."

Make no mistake.. a few little "yellow flags" can change a game quick. Everybody knows you can call a "holding penality" on every play if you know what I mean.

Yeah, but this game will be on national television....I would think that it would be neutral refs............I don't think it would any 'home cooking' like Louisiana.

Was that game Tyler John-Tyler?

[LoboFan07]

Was that game Tyler John-Tyler?

I know it was obvious in the 2003 Longview/Evangel game. I dont think Ive ever seen that many penalties in one game much less one half. Somehow we overcame it and won the dang thing though

[Red Raiders]

That's what I was talking about in the past.........they are the ones making it out to be the big deal...........I don't think Coach Owens realized that until he was up there yesterday.

I would like to see all the Texas fans buy up alot of the tickets to 'neutralize' the crowd and the Lee band go up there.

On the last day of school, I ask 1 of my friend from band and he said they might go so I am not sure if they are going or not. We don't know for sure yet.

Oh and thanks for all of you supporting our team and I hope yall will by this date of the game. Go Tyler Lee Red Raiders!

[supercentex]

On the last day of school, I ask 1 of my friend from band and he said they might go so I am not sure if they are going or not. We don't know for sure yet.

Oh and thanks for all of you supporting our team and I hope yall will by this date of the game. Go Tyler Lee Red Raiders!


Well as for the band they had a meeting before school let out...and at the meeting they decided not to try and raise the money to go. SO, unless the money comes from a private source...none of them will be there.

If anyone from on here wants to coordinate some plans to go ....let me know...........the tickets to the Ohio-State-Texas game are very high..but the high school game is pretty decent.

[Texasfrog]

I know it was obvious in the 2003 Longview/Evangel game. I dont think Ive ever seen that many penalties in one game much less one half. Somehow we overcame it and won the dang thing though

I saw that game also. The worst call in that game was the so called "fumble" by QB-Quincy Grant that got picked up and returned for a touchdown. NO-WAY that was a fumble. He was laying on the ground and extended the ball out.

SuperCentex.. it wasnt in the JT game vs WM. But, it was another high profiled WM game that I was at. There was about 3 very very very very IFFY calls in that game that basically extended 3 different WM scoring drives. Two of the calls came on 4th down attempts by WM that got shutdown. It mighty nice to go from being shut down on 4th down at the 40 yard line to 1st & 10 on the 25 and going in. That happened TWICE and both calls were totally (you know what). Both calls were "PERSONAL FOULS" on the Texas players for basically touching a WM player. Those two flags would of NEVER been thrown in TEXAS.

There was also a nice "yellow hanky" thrown for holding after a nice 25 yd run by a certain Texas RB. It only took the "REF" about 8 seconds after the play to decide to throw it.. Hmmmmmmm ?????

So, I've seen some "HOMER CALLS" over the years in these State match-up games.

PS. Just so people also know. This WM vs Texas team it was agreed that a crew out of Arkansas would come do the game. About 20 minutes before kickoff the Texas coach is told that the Arkansas crew couldnt make it and they got a nice official crew out of "WEST MONROE" to do the game.. Hmmmm.... go figure huh.

That's why in these high profile games like this.. I like ( 2 year HOME & HOME) contracts. It helps cut out some of the so called "IFFY STUFF" if you know what I mean.

Of coarse West Monroe had a two year deal.. They just backdoored out of it about 30 minutes after the game. In fact.. Coach Shows (West Monroe) told the Texas coach on the field about 5 minutes after the game that West Monroe wouldnt be going to Texas the next season. Talk about PRE-PLAN SET-UP !!!

I'm not going to take anything away from West Monroe. They had a good team and they were the better team "THAT NIGHT." But, make no mistake about it.. They had some extra help that night and it wasnt from WM football players.

[supercentex]

I saw that game also. The worst call in that game was the so called "fumble" by QB-Quincy Grant that got picked up and returned for a touchdown. NO-WAY that was a fumble. He was laying on the ground and extended the ball out.

SuperCentex.. it wasnt in the JT game vs WM. But, it was another high profiled WM game that I was at. There was about 3 very very very very IFFY calls in that game that basically extended 3 different WM scoring drives. Two of the calls came on 4th down attempts by WM that got shutdown. It mighty nice to go from being shut down on 4th down at the 40 yard line to 1st & 10 on the 25 and going in. That happened TWICE and both calls were totally (you know what). Both calls were "PERSONAL FOULS" on the Texas players for basically touching a WM player. Those two flags would of NEVER been thrown in TEXAS.

There was also a nice "yellow hanky" thrown for holding after a nice 25 yd run by a certain Texas RB. It only took the "REF" about 8 seconds after the play to decide to throw it.. Hmmmmmmm ?????

So, I've seen some "HOMER CALLS" over the years in these State match-up games.

PS. Just so people also know. This WM vs Texas team it was agreed that a crew out of Arkansas would come do the game. About 20 minutes before kickoff the Texas coach is told that the Arkansas crew couldnt make it and they got a nice official crew out of "WEST MONROE" to do the game.. Hmmmm.... go figure huh.

That's why in these high profile games like this.. I like ( 2 year HOME & HOME) contracts. It helps cut out some of the so called "IFFY STUFF" if you know what I mean.

Of coarse West Monroe had a two year deal.. They just backdoored out of it about 30 minutes after the game. In fact.. Coach Shows (West Monroe) told the Texas coach on the field about 5 minutes after the game that West Monroe wouldnt be going to Texas the next season. Talk about PRE-PLAN SET-UP !!!

I'm not going to take anything away from West Monroe. They had a good team and they were the better team "THAT NIGHT." But, make no mistake about it.. They had some extra help that night and it wasnt from WM football players.


I have the game on tape and heard about it all...........that is why West Monroe will never be playing a Texas team again.

[Texasfrog]

I have the game on tape and heard about it all...........that is why West Monroe will never be playing a Texas team again.


Well... Longview is playing WM this season. But, its at INDY stadium in Shreveport. So, that will take some of the Coach Shows "HOMEFIELD" out of it.

Look at the tape again. West Monroe made sure that the 1,000 or so Texas and Midland Lee fans that came to the game got nice seats in the very far end up the vistor stand roped off for them.

Right behind Midland Lee in the vistor stands they placed the West Monroe "BAND." I think that a nice classy move. Midland Lee couldnt bring their band so Coach Shows thought he would put WM band right behind Midland Lee.

There was about 100 other things that were just a classless "JOKE" in that matchup.

I lost any respect I had for WM (Coach Shows) that night. I was listening to the WM radio station (postgame) while driving back to Texas. Here is some of the things said right after the game from WM coaches:

1. " I hope Midland Lee enjoys that long, long, long-drive back to Midland,Tx"

2. "Cedric Benson whooooooo"

3. " where not going to Midland Lee next year" Wow, they knew that going into the game. They just didnt tell Midland Lee until right after the game. Go figure....

Now, these were things said right after the game by WM coaches..

So, with all of that and the joke moves before and after the game. That is the biggest example of "CLASSLESS" and "unsportsmanship" I've ever seen from High School coaches (West Monroe). It was a 100% JOKE.

Now, saying all of that. West Monroe was the better team that night. But, they werent 25 pts better and they had TONS of help.

[RockinL]

I have the game on tape and heard about it all...........that is why West Monroe will never be playing a Texas team again.
They play Longview this year.

[Texasfrog]

I also think its very important that Tyler Lee bring some of the band to Ohio.

At least let the Senior Band members come to the game. I dont care if its only 30 or so Band Members. They also need to bring the Cheerleaders to the game and some of the Drill team members.

I think this is very important...these things help High School teams alot more than some people think..

[farmerfan]

Or maybe West Monroe was a better football team than Lee that year. That game could have been played on any field, and the outcome would have been the same. In fact WM could have come to Texas and given Katy a heck of a football game that year. They were a great football team.

[Texasfrog]

Or maybe West Monroe was a better football team than Lee that year. That game could have been played on any field, and the outcome would have been the same. In fact WM could have come to Texas and given Katy a heck of a football game that year. They were a great football team.

I dont think WM was better than Midland Lee in 2000. I think they were better that night in WM and they made sure that every little intangable item favored them that night. But, Midland Lee in September wasnt the same team they were in December. They lost to Odessa High like two weeks later.

I dont care what anyone says either. I was at the game and there was some "HOME COOKING" by the REFS on about 3 to 4 plays that sure helped stem the tide to favor WM.

I still think WM (Coach Shows) is pretty CLASSLESS on some of the things his done. It was very unsportsmam !!!

But, again the 2000 WM team was very good and they would of been in the Texas top #10.

I still say its very important in these cross State games like this to have Official Crews from another State. That way there is no bias calling and the Zebras call it like they see it. That's the point of that..

PS. I'll let Coach Shows and his coward way after that Midland Lee game speak for itself ok.

[Texasfrog]

Or maybe West Monroe was a better football team than Lee that year. That game could have been played on any field, and the outcome would have been the same. In fact WM could have come to Texas and given Katy a heck of a football game that year. They were a great football team.

FARMER.. I bet you wouldnt bet the FARM that WM could of come to Texas and done the same thing. That WM team isnt the same team when you get them away from their Stadium in WM. Even that WM team.

[farmerfan]

If I had a farm to bet, I sure would bet it.
That 2000 WM team was a very good football team, they would have been among the top 1-2 teams in Texas that year given Katy all they could handle. They were big, fast and could control the clock as good as any team. Home cooking has to factor into any football game, those plays did not change the outcome of the game. Ced was still held in check all game and the Lee offense never got going, with the exception of one run. I guess the refs made sure Ced could not produce any yards
Face it frog, Texas does not produce the best HS team every year, and there are states who's state champ could come to Texas and beat ours. I still hold out that Colerain would have been a top 2-3 team in Texas last year, and WM would have been a top 1-2 team in 2000. Even as much as Lee improved in 2000, WM was still the better team
Coach Shows is a different story, the reason he did not come to Midland in 01 was because of Tyler in 1997, JT destroyed WM in 97, and I think Shows felt the same about the refs and homecooking in Tyler that you say happend to Lee in WM. All it pans out to is excuses, look at the score and look at the stats from the Lee/WM game and it will show you total domination of WM.

[supercentex]

I think what really hurt Lee in that game was the refs and the fact that the field was in horrible condition.

But, I don't think that Midland Lee was that great of a team that year.....NOTHING like the '99 team.

Lee was too one deminsional with Cedric and the QB was way too small.

I put that tape in not long ago and turned it off after Cedric's lone touchdown.

[farmerfan]

As far as the Field, both teams had to battle the conditions. The refs can only do so much, had the game been close, then that excuse would be a little more ligitimate, however the game was not close, so I have a hard time giving in to the notion that the refs were a factor.
I will agree that it was not one of Midland Lee's better teams, the 99 team was a special team, however the 2000 team was still a Texas state champ, and got blown out by a Louisiana state champ, and would have on any field under any circumstance. The 2000 WM team was a solid football team, were they a 96 Jenks? no, but they were still solid and would have beaten just about every team in Texas that year, and could have beaten Katy given the chance.

[Red Raiders]

I also think its very important that Tyler Lee bring some of the band to Ohio.

At least let the Senior Band members come to the game. I dont care if its only 30 or so Band Members. They also need to bring the Cheerleaders to the game and some of the Drill team members.

I think this is very important...these things help High School teams alot more than some people think..

I don't think our hott cheerleaders coming or drill team coming either, I will have to ask them sometimes.

[stevefoxsc]

i only have one thing to say... KICK THERE ARSE TYLER LEE

[RockinL]

If I had a farm to bet, I sure would bet it.
That 2000 WM team was a very good football team, they would have been among the top 1-2 teams in Texas that year given Katy all they could handle. They were big, fast and could control the clock as good as any team. Home cooking has to factor into any football game, those plays did not change the outcome of the game. Ced was still held in check all game and the Lee offense never got going, with the exception of one run. I guess the refs made sure Ced could not produce any yards
Face it frog, Texas does not produce the best HS team every year, and there are states who's state champ could come to Texas and beat ours. I still hold out that Colerain would have been a top 2-3 team in Texas last year, and WM would have been a top 1-2 team in 2000. Even as much as Lee improved in 2000, WM was still the better team
Coach Shows is a different story, the reason he did not come to Midland in 01 was because of Tyler in 1997, JT destroyed WM in 97, and I think Shows felt the same about the refs and homecooking in Tyler that you say happend to Lee in WM. All it pans out to is excuses, look at the score and look at the stats from the Lee/WM game and it will show you total domination of WM.

Hypotheticly speaking.......
IF...and I say IF....Tyler Lee were to beat Colerain this year...and lets say that Colerain runs the table in the same fashion that they did last year in OHIO......will you still say that Colerain would be one of the top 2-3 teams in Texas this year even if TL beats them?

[RidgePride]

"Ohio vs USA" definitely bothers me. Ohio has no business thinking they deserve to be matched up against the USA.



100% correct - What has Ohio high school football ever done? Friday Night Lights was about Texas Football.

I hope REL Beats them to holy high hell. I am officially an Ohio football hater.

What we need to do is have their Number Champion against our Number one Champion at the end of the football season.

So we would have had Southlake Carroll vs Colerain at the end of the year with both championship sqauds -

REL vs Colerain game 2005 does not mean a whole lot because we don't know how good either team will be this year. There is a reason that there are only a few teams that have repeated as champions.
And REL is the 3rd best out of the east texas schools

[Mr.LoBeaux]

Well, I remember back when Evangel came to rose stadium and beat J.T. like 38-16, I guess. That same year they lost to W.M. 47-0 in West Monroe. I remember just like yesterday all the RACISM and expletives shouted at the J.T. players, coaches and fans! It was absolutely RIDICULOUS! When the J.T. players tried to go into a local restaurant in West Monroe they were told to in thses EXACT words, " you better see if ya'll can't go to Shreveport and find somewhere to eat." :mad: Yeah, this ain't what I've heard but, what I WITNESSED! But, you know what? When I see a school or ANY school for that matter that blatantly swings CONFEDERATE flags and wears them in the WM logo a symbolic flag that represents the 13 states that uphold slavery and the oppression of ALL African-Americans, I have ZERO respect for that program! It's just flat out IGNORANCE and HATRED! But, anyway, WM came to Rose Stadium that next year and lost to J.T. 48-14!!! Well, EVANGEL( with their COWARD "A's") were scheduled on that home-and-home contract. So, guess what? IMMEDIATELY, after that WM game Evangel's head coach calls the game off!! Yep! So, during that week they agree to a game with a weaker opponent at that time about 90 miles west of J.T.- DALLAS CARTER! I've seen so much BULL out of Louisiana JUST from high school football that regardless of the records, I get GREAT JUBILATION when we win especially when we can light the scoreboard up!

[farmerfan]

Hypotheticly speaking.......
IF...and I say IF....Tyler Lee were to beat Colerain this year...and lets say that Colerain runs the table in the same fashion that they did last year in OHIO......will you still say that Colerain would be one of the top 2-3 teams in Texas this year even if TL beats them?

For this year, no, because this years team is not the same as last years team. Last year's Colerain team was a special team and they graduated some great players.
Now if Colerain beats Tyler Lee, will you give them the respect they deserve and realize that there is a possibility that there are teams that reside out of Texas who can not only play with the Texas teams, but beat them?

[RidgePride]

For this year, no, because this years team is not the same as last years team. Last year's Colerain team was a special team and they graduated some great players.
Now if Colerain beats Tyler Lee, will you give them the respect they deserve and realize that there is a possibility that there are teams that reside out of Texas who can not only play with the Texas teams, but beat them?

We all know that some top teams from other states can beat some of our top teams.


The comparison to me is like comparing 5A to 4A teams.
Texas is 5A other states are 4A and down.

There are several 4A teams that can beat 5A teams. Every now and then the best 4A team can beat the best 5A team but it is not the "norm." Year in and year out Texas will have the best champion.

FarmerFan - You sound like you want Colerain to win -

[dragonsdaddy]

ff is a voice of reason, rather than a snap hook rash judgement guy. he will pull for tlee, but there is a possibility that colerain will beat lee. this is being played-up by the boards as the game to save planet ohio from the alien invaders. if lee plays this game as a reg non-district affair, a mere step toward the brass ring, they won't invest every ounce they possess in a "meaningless" n-d game. the outcome won't keep t-lee from repeating, but taking this too seriously might. don't blame the messenger, blame the process. we ain't seen nothin yet. the game is still months away.

[farmerfan]

The comparison to me is like comparing 5A to 4A teams.
Texas is 5A other states are 4A and down.

There are several 4A teams that can beat 5A teams. Every now and then the best 4A team can beat the best 5A team but it is not the "norm." Year in and year out Texas will have the best champion.

FarmerFan - You sound like you want Colerain to win -

Well I guess Denton Ryan and Southlake are horrible examples of the 4A/5A comparison, add in SV to that to. The best in 4A would be able to comepte with the best in 5A, and in some years the 4A state champ would beat the 5A state champ. So you need to do better than your 4A/5A comparison, that is a weak argument.
As far as your year in year out Texas will have the best champion comment, some years, yes we will, I think the past two years we have been fortunate enough that we have had the best champion, but other years, Jenks, De LaSalle, West Monroe, Evangel, Independence, Hoover, Bellvue and others will produce teams very capable of beating our best.

Thank you DD, for explaining to ridge dude how I am. I do not want Colerain to win this game. I guess I just look at the big picture, I respect teams from outside of Texas as much as I do inside of Texas, and for that I guess you think I want colerain to win, why dont you try to be a little more objective and see that if you study the game from outside of this state, that the HS game is still pretty good in other regions of this country.

[concha]

Texas is the biggest and deepest football state there is. Only a fool would argue that, but there are other states that have teams that, in my opinion and those of many others, could play with Texas' best.

Cali lacks Texas' depth, nut there are some fine programs that would likely perform very well (DLS, MV, Poly come to mind). Ohio has several programs that would represent themselves very well. I personally think Colerain could and would have beaten SLC last year (and many non-Ohioans think so too). The year before? They would have been competitive bu probably would not have won (nor Elder). It just depends on the year. The top 5-10 programs in Ohio could play anywhere, but beyond that Ohio is just too much smaller (1/2 the size of Texas) and Texas' larger schools and thus larger talent pools take over.

This coming year, my belief is that there are maybe up to three Ohio schools that would rank very highly in Texas were they to play there (Colerain, St. Ignatius and Glenville, which may well be the fastest team overall in the nation).

As far as this game being a "live or die" thing for Ohio football, I am sorry to break the news, but the vast vast majority of Ohio high school football fans don't give a rat's tuckus. Colerain fans, maybe some around the Columbus area and some of the fans of the other major Ohio powers are very interested. But don't fool yourselves into thinking it is bigger than the major local rivalries or the state title. That's just stupid.

[concha]

100% correct - What has Ohio high school football ever done? Friday Night Lights was about Texas Football. [And "Go Tigers!", an award winning film, is about an Ohio football team more storied than Permian. So what is your point?]

I hope REL Beats them to holy high hell. I am officially an Ohio football hater. ["Hater"? Why? Hate takes energy. Why do you waste it on a state from so far away? Jealousy? Feel threatened?]

What we need to do is have their Number Champion against our Number one Champion at the end of the football season. [Come on up to Canton in December. You'll love it. I believe there is a gap between the season's ends that make this unworkable, BTW]

So we would have had Southlake Carroll vs Colerain at the end of the year with both championship sqauds -

REL vs Colerain game 2005 does not mean a whole lot because we don't know how good either team will be this year. There is a reason that there are only a few teams that have repeated as champions.
And REL is the 3rd best out of the east texas schools
..............................

[RidgePride]

Well I guess Denton Ryan and Southlake are horrible examples of the 4A/5A comparison, add in SV to that to. The best in 4A would be able to comepte with the best in 5A, and in some years the 4A state champ would beat the 5A state champ. So you need to do better than your 4A/5A comparison, that is a weak argument.


FF is not the voice of reason- did you read my post or just glance at it. READ IT AGAIN.

I clearly stated that some 4A teams are better than 5A teams and that some 4A champs can beat 5A champs. Texas being like 5A will USUALLY beat other states

That was my point. Most of the time the 5A champ wins that is all I said.

So next time actually read what I wrote and you won't sound so stupid.
Same with you DragonDaddy.

[RidgePride]

I personally think Colerain could and would have beaten SLC last year (and many non-Ohioans think so too).

but beyond that Ohio is just too much smaller (1/2 the size of Texas) and Texas' larger schools and thus larger talent pools take over.



When you watch a team in person and see them dominate (like colerain), it is hard to imagine them losing especially with the athletes they have. I personally think that Lufkin is just as good as Colerain - A team SLC beat.

If Lufkin played in Ohio- I bet it would be hard to imagine them losing too - with all their athletes and the team speed they have.

It is easier to look unbeatable if you play lesser football programs.

When you see a bunch of White boys from southlake play on ESPN2, it doesn't appear that they are as phenomenal as they are.
When you see SLC in person, you would have a whole new appreciation.

There is probably no person on this board that have seen Colerain and Southlake play in person.

If someone has - I would respect that persons opinion.

[supercentex]

Guess where the officials are going to be from for this game?
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.
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OHIO. Coach Owens asked for officals form outside the state.
The Ohio Athletic Asso. has a rule that states that any high school game played in Ohio must have Ohio officals.


Hopefully with the game being aired on national television it will put pressure on the officials to call a good game.

[raidercheerdad]

I don't think our hott cheerleaders coming or drill team coming either, I will have to ask them sometimes.My daughter is one of those hott cheerleaders and unless something changes over the summer, they won't be there! I'm not saying we are'nt going, but the cheerleaders as a group won't be making the trip.

[supercentex]

My daughter is one of those hott cheerleaders and unless something changes over the summer, they won't be there! I'm not saying we are'nt going, but the cheerleaders as a group won't be making the trip.


That is a shame! There was plenty of time for them to raise the money for all of them to go!

I had talked with a lady that was in the band and they needed to raise money quick to go to Hawaii.........she said she would never forgot how quick they raised the money and how the Tyler community rallied around them. I sent her comments to the Director of Arts for Tyler ISD sort of for support that it can be done.

They had a meeting and voted the trip down quick!

[concha]

When you watch a team in person and see them dominate (like colerain), it is hard to imagine them losing especially with the athletes they have. I personally think that Lufkin is just as good as Colerain - A team SLC beat.

If Lufkin played in Ohio- I bet it would be hard to imagine them losing too - with all their athletes and the team speed they have.

It is easier to look unbeatable if you play lesser football programs.

When you see a bunch of White boys from southlake play on ESPN2, it doesn't appear that they are as phenomenal as they are.
When you see SLC in person, you would have a whole new appreciation.

There is probably no person on this board that have seen Colerain and Southlake play in person.

If someone has - I would respect that persons opinion.

Many of the best teams in Ohio are made up almost entirely by "a bunch of white boys" - primarily the so-called "Big Catholics" (St. Ignatius, Elder, St. Edward, Moeller, St. Xavier).

While Ohio on the whole had a "down" year in 2004, Colerain did not really play a season of "lesser programs". Elder and Moeller are Ohio Top 10 programs. Centerville, while not and Ohio Top 10 program, is very respectable and played Colerain with and 11-0 record and averaging nearly 40 ppg.

As a fellow Ohio poster put it, Colerain's only problem last year was that they were Ali without a Frazier. They were much better than any other SW Ohio team, and the truly best NE Ohio teams either bumped each other off or screwed the pooch to allow McKinley into the title game. It was too bad.

Colerain did all they could possibly do, annihilating everything in their path. They could have forfeited every 2nd half point they scored and still gone 15-0. SLC had the good fortune to actually face 2 or 3 truly fine teams.

[supercentex]

What is the difference in the rules? Texas plays by NCAA rules.....what about Ohio?

And, what differences are there?

[RockinL]

For this year, no, because this years team is not the same as last years team. Last year's Colerain team was a special team and they graduated some great players.
Now if Colerain beats Tyler Lee, will you give them the respect they deserve and realize that there is a possibility that there are teams that reside out of Texas who can not only play with the Texas teams, but beat them?


I do give them all the respect they deserve. They were a good team. The only question I have is the level of comp in their district/conference. Ive lived in a few other places besides Texas... Southern California being one. Thats where I started teaching/coaching.
Ive seen football in 10 different states, so I KNOW there are teams that could compete here.
The thing that Texas has over many other football states is the depth of players and well coached teams. Given its population, it should have more quality teams than most other states. Ive seen teams that had some great talent, but the coaching was horrible. Some states hire "volunteer" coaches. These are guys that dont teach but just "volunteer" to coach the local HS football team.
California has several million more residents than Texas, but outside of LB Poly, MV, DLS, Mater Dei, and occasionally a Hart or Los Alamitos, the competition gets pretty weak. I know, I watched it for 6 years.

You know the team from San Diego (Mira Mesa) that came last year and played Wylie? They were a playoff team in the comparable 5A division in SoCal for crying out loud. Wylie dominated them. They looked more like a JV team.

There are alot of intangibles that go into making a so called "football state". Fan support is a large part, along with the traditions which makes a small kid want to play for the local team when he grows up. ALOT of states dont have that attitude toward HS football.

SO, to answer your question....yes there are a few teams from other states that may make the top 10 in Texas in a given year, but it is a short list.

[RockinL]

When you watch a team in person and see them dominate (like colerain), it is hard to imagine them losing especially with the athletes they have. I personally think that Lufkin is just as good as Colerain - A team SLC beat.

If Lufkin played in Ohio- I bet it would be hard to imagine them losing too - with all their athletes and the team speed they have.

It is easier to look unbeatable if you play lesser football programs.

When you see a bunch of White boys from southlake play on ESPN2, it doesn't appear that they are as phenomenal as they are.
When you see SLC in person, you would have a whole new appreciation.

There is probably no person on this board that have seen Colerain and Southlake play in person.

If someone has - I would respect that persons opinion.


I saw SLC paly twice last year...against Denton Ryan, and Lufkin.
SLC had an unbelievable offense. The defense was average.
I personally think that Colerain would have gone toe to toe with SLC. The one thing that I have seen SLC do to teams time after time and Colerain would be no different is....they WILL outscore you. They always do.
They may not, and probably wont hold many teams to less than 2-3 touchdowns, but one thing they will do is....if you score 21, you can almost be assured they will score 28....You score 35, they'll score 42. Thats what they did to Lufkin....see what Im getting at??
Todd Dodge has redefined what it takes to win Championships...he does it with offense.
They probably had the best offense in the country last year, but OVERALL...I still think Lufkin had a better OVERALL team. Lufin was within one batted down ball in the endzone with no time left (which was a non-called interference on SLC BTW) to moving on to the Championship.

[concha]

There are alot of intangibles that go into making a so called "football state". Fan support is a large part, along with the traditions which makes a small kid want to play for the local team when he grows up. ALOT of states dont have that attitude toward HS football.

SO, to answer your question....yes there are a few teams from other states that may make the top 10 in Texas in a given year, but it is a short list.

Ohio is one of these "football states". In Massillon, newborn boys have a football placed in their crib at the hospital. At Elder, families have sent their young sent their for generations. They grow up wearing purple and dreaming on one day being a Panther.

Also, I agree the list of teams that would make the Texan Top 10 is probably short. I would predict for 2005, for example, that Ohio would have a minimum of three - again, minimum. Pennsylvania probably has at least one or two normally, as would Georgia and Louisiana. Florida might have two or three, though it is difficult to gauge (the talent is there, but the coaching/discipline/support?). California, would have teams. Indiana (this will probably shock you) would have one or two (Warren Central and Ben Davis).

I think there number of states that could regularly put more than one team is probably small: Ohio, Cali and maybe Florida would be my "best bets" to do it frequently and land two or more. Indiana's two best programs are very, very good. Pennsylvania can field good ones. Illinois, Georgia and Louisiana might from time to time.

[concha]

I saw SLC paly twice last year...against Denton Ryan, and Lufkin.
SLC had an unbelievable offense. The defense was average.
I personally think that Colerain would have gone toe to toe with SLC. The one thing that I have seen SLC do to teams time after time and Colerain would be no different is....they WILL outscore you. They always do.
They may not, and probably wont hold many teams to less than 2-3 touchdowns, but one thing they will do is....if you score 21, you can almost be assured they will score 28....You score 35, they'll score 42. Thats what they did to Lufkin....see what Im getting at??
Todd Dodge has redefined what it takes to win Championships...he does it with offense.
They probably had the best offense in the country last year, but OVERALL...I still think Lufkin had a better OVERALL team. Lufin was within one batted down ball in the endzone with no time left (which was a non-called interference on SLC BTW) to moving on to the Championship.

I hope this doesn't develop into a pissing match, but I have to disagree here.

I am comfortable in saying that SLC would have been the best offense faced by Colerain last season. But I am equally comfortable in saying that SLC would have had to win the game in the air. Nobody ran well against Colerain. Absolutely nobody. They held one or two opponenets to negative rushing yardage. They crushed an 11-0 team averaging @37 ppg to zero. Moeller, when they faced Colerain, actually conceded the rushing game because Colerain's rushing defense was so strong. They called a pass on every play. Of the seniors and juniors Colerain put in the box, they had 3 D1A linebackers and at least one D1A defensive lineman (who was named PrepNation's Defensive Player of the Year). That guy's twin brother, who also got a football scholie, was a beast in his own right, squating 760 pounds.

I don't think Colerain would have shut SLC down, but if SLC wanted to get points, they were going to be throwing it alot more than they were accustomed to.

As far as the other side of the ball, I agree that SLC's defense was solid, but unspectacular. Apart from week one when they were breaking in a new QB and their Michigan-bound FB was injured, Colerain was never held below 34 points. And the second halves of games were frequently scrub-heavy. Post week one, their lowest margin of victory was 4 TDs, and these 4 TD win margins were against teams that have faced Colerain many times before.

[RockinL]

Ohio is one of these "football states". In Massillon, newborn boys have a football placed in their crib at the hospital. At Elder, families have sent their young sent their for generations. They grow up wearing purple and dreaming on one day being a Panther.

Also, I agree the list of teams that would make the Texan Top 10 is probably short. I would predict for 2005, for example, that Ohio would have a minimum of three - again, minimum. Pennsylvania probably has at least one or two normally, as would Georgia and Louisiana. Florida might have two or three, though it is difficult to gauge (the talent is there, but the coaching/discipline/support?). California, would have teams. Indiana (this will probably shock you) would have one or two (Warren Central and Ben Davis).

I think there number of states that could regularly put more than one team is probably small: Ohio, Cali and maybe Florida would be my "best bets" to do it frequently and land two or more. Indiana's two best programs are very, very good. Pennsylvania can field good ones. Illinois, Georgia and Louisiana might from time to time.


Agreed, with one exception......Florida has a ton of talent. They just cant seem to put it together on one team with a good coaching staff.

[concha]

Agreed, with one exception......Florida has a ton of talent. They just cant seem to put it together on one team with a good coaching staff.

Hence my comment:
"Florida might have two or three, though it is difficult to gauge (the talent is there, but the coaching/discipline/support?)."

[RockinL]

I hope this doesn't develop into a pissing match, but I have to disagree here.

I am comfortable in saying that SLC would have been the best offense faced by Colerain last season. But I am equally comfortable in saying that SLC would have had to win the game in the air. Nobody ran well against Colerain. Absolutely nobody. They held one or two opponenets to negative rushing yardage. They crushed an 11-0 team averaging @37 ppg to zero. Moeller, when they faced Colerain, actually conceded the rushing game because Colerain's rushing defense was so strong. They called a pass on every play. Of the seniors and juniors Colerain put in the box, they had 3 D1A linebackers and at least one D1A defensive lineman (who was named PrepNation's Defensive Player of the Year). That guy's twin brother, who also got a football scholie, was a beast in his own right, squating 760 pounds.

I don't think Colerain would have shut SLC down, but if SLC wanted to get points, they were going to be throwing it alot more than they were accustomed to.

As far as the other side of the ball, I agree that SLC's defense was solid, but unspectacular. Apart from week one when they were breaking in a new QB and their Michigan-bound FB was injured, Colerain was never held below 34 points. And the second halves of games were frequently scrub-heavy. Post week one, their lowest margin of victory was 4 TDs, and these 4 TD win margins were against teams that have faced Colerain many times before.


No pissing match here. I agree with most of what you said. My only point was that Ive seen SLC face some really, really stout defenses...and won. Like I said, they will outscore you. Just when you think you have em down....they spread out 5 receivers, and pop a 15-20 yard underneath pass that either scores, or comes dang close. It always leaves me scratching my head and saying...."Where in the hell did that receiver come from!?" Ive seen em do it over, and over, and over.
When they get in trouble, they go to the air a BUNCH, and they do it as well as any team Ive seen with the exception of the 98-99 Evangel offense, which was phenomenal.
I really dont understand your "they were going to be throwing it alot more than they were accustomed to." comment. SLC throws the ball a bunch. They are somewhat balanced, but maybe it seems like they throw more than they do because they have such a high completion rate, and alot of those passes are above the 10-15 yard type.

Their defense.....ummmm....average.

[farmerfan]

I think the southlake defense is above average, they stoped some pretty good offenses last year and made plays when needed to. They held Lufkin's Lane in check for most of the game, and frustrated Abilene at times, as well as held Ryan to 7 in the playoffs. When they needed a play from the defense the defense stepped up, I think the Dragon defense was very underrated a year ago.

[concha]

Not easy to outscore a team with a D like Colerain's and an offense that averages 46 ppg, when your own defense is likely to be giving up 30-40. SLC was blessed on one side of the ball and not on hte other. Colerain was blessed on both.

Anyway, a fantasy game that didn't happen....

[RockinL]

Hence my comment:
"Florida might have two or three, though it is difficult to gauge (the talent is there, but the coaching/discipline/support?)."
My bad....didnt read it all.

[concha]

I think the southlake defense is above average, they stoped some pretty good offenses last year and made plays when needed to. They held Lufkin's Lane in check for most of the game, and frustrated Abilene at times, as well as held Ryan to 7 in the playoffs. When they needed a play from the defense the defense stepped up, I think the Dragon defense was very underrated a year ago.

Maybe so, but they still dropped significant points on several occasions. Colerain's starting defense, had they played all game, every game would have dropped about a field goal per game on average, statistically. The most they dropped was 10, I believe.

With an offense as productive as Colerain's and a defense that stingy, asking your team to put up the 35-40 points that they woud likely need at a minimum to win is quite a tall order.

I leave it at that. Best to you.

[RockinL]

I think the southlake defense is above average, they stoped some pretty good offenses last year and made plays when needed to. They held Lufkin's Lane in check for most of the game, and frustrated Abilene at times, as well as held Ryan to 7 in the playoffs. When they needed a play from the defense the defense stepped up, I think the Dragon defense was very underrated a year ago.
Thats just it...they made plays when they needed to.....which SHOULD be for 4 quarters. I think they were alot stronger against the run than the pass.
They made the play they had to against Lufkin. The final play of the game, which if you will look at the replay, was defensive interference.
30 plus points is not keeping them in check. Im not tooting Lufkins horn....bit just calling it as I saw it, which is always subject to debate.

Being Texas DII champs speaks for itself. But thats not to say some chinks in the armor didnt exist.

[farmerfan]

Im not arguing that the Carroll defense was as good as Colerain's or anything else, I was just disagreeing with the comment that they were a average defense.
Against Lufkin, in the 1st half, Lufkin was frustrated all game, could not move the ball, only produced points when SL made mistakes on offense or special teams, and for the most part looked as they did not belong in the game. The second half was a different story, however Lane was still held in check the whole game, he was a great RB that southlake totally took out of the game.
As for the pi no call at the end of the game, there was a crowd of players down there, the call could have gone either way, Lufkin put themselves in position to need a late TD to force OT, I for one do not believe it was PI, but that is just my opinion.
Southlake's defense made plays when they had to and in a lot of games did for the entireity of the game, no team moved the ball at will on Southlake, Abilene scored 30 points, as did Lufkin, but they did in a struggle, sure it does not look good on paper, but watching them live was totally different. The Carroll defense was a very solid unit, and in my opinion was very underrated. We are all entitled to our own opinions, and rockinL you sound like a very knowledgeable person and I respect your thoughts and opinions, it's just I have a different opinion than you do.

[Texasfrog]

Well, I remember back when Evangel came to rose stadium and beat J.T. like 38-16, I guess. That same year they lost to W.M. 47-0 in West Monroe. I remember just like yesterday all the RACISM and expletives shouted at the J.T. players, coaches and fans! It was absolutely RIDICULOUS! When the J.T. players tried to go into a local restaurant in West Monroe they were told to in thses EXACT words, " you better see if ya'll can't go to Shreveport and find somewhere to eat." :mad: Yeah, this ain't what I've heard but, what I WITNESSED! But, you know what? When I see a school or ANY school for that matter that blatantly swings CONFEDERATE flags and wears them in the WM logo a symbolic flag that represents the 13 states that uphold slavery and the oppression of ALL African-Americans, I have ZERO respect for that program! It's just flat out IGNORANCE and HATRED! But, anyway, WM came to Rose Stadium that next year and lost to J.T. 48-14!!! Well, EVANGEL( with their COWARD "A's") were scheduled on that home-and-home contract. So, guess what? IMMEDIATELY, after that WM game Evangel's head coach calls the game off!! Yep! So, during that week they agree to a game with a weaker opponent at that time about 90 miles west of J.T.- DALLAS CARTER! I've seen so much BULL out of Louisiana JUST from high school football that regardless of the records, I get GREAT JUBILATION when we win especially when we can light the scoreboard up!

I agree with you 100%. I also thought it was great when JT blew out WM the following year in Tyler. The sidenote on that game. Coach Shows had Confederate flags put up all around Rose Stadium before the game (rematch). JT & Tyler board members told him that the Confederate flags had to be taken down. That John tyler was a predominate African American school and those flags werent welcome at Rose Stadium. Well, Coach Shows threw a fit and complained and cried but took the flags down. Than of coarse JT spanked West Monroe like 45-14 or something like that.

[Texasfrog]

As far as the Field, both teams had to battle the conditions. The refs can only do so much, had the game been close, then that excuse would be a little more ligitimate, however the game was not close, so I have a hard time giving in to the notion that the refs were a factor.
I will agree that it was not one of Midland Lee's better teams, the 99 team was a special team, however the 2000 team was still a Texas state champ, and got blown out by a Louisiana state champ, and would have on any field under any circumstance. The 2000 WM team was a solid football team, were they a 96 Jenks? no, but they were still solid and would have beaten just about every team in Texas that year, and could have beaten Katy given the chance.

Farmer Fan.. I know you werent at the game (WM vs Midland Lee) so I'll leave it at that ok. I was there in the flesh and saw it all as well as alot of Louisiana fans.

Second.. Midland Lee wasnt that good of a team early on the season (September) of 2000. They had basically a whole new team except about 4 returning starters from the 1999 team. Midland Lee lost a game two weeks later to Odessa High. But, they did load the buses and make a very tough 15 hour drive to play a very tough game in a very hostile environment (West Monroe). NUFF SAID. You can see that West Monroe (Coach Shows) wasnt to hip on making the return trip to West Texas cant you ....??? Do you want to know why ? Every heard that saying about PAYBACK ? Coach Show knew it would be coming so he took the coward way out.

Third: The Midland Lee team of September 2000 was almost a 100% different team than the December 2000 Midland Lee team. They grew up as a team and became more mature with their younger players.

If the those two 2000 teams (Midland Lee vs WM ) would of met in December on a neutral field lets say in Dallas. It would of been a close hardfought game. On top of taking away all of Coach Shows "homefield cooking."


Last and formost: Just like I said before. The 2000 WM team was a very good team and would of been a top #10 Texas team that year. But, I wouldnt put alot of stock into that game @ West Monroe.

I can promise you that there was about Seven or so teams in Texas that if they would of played that same WM team on a neutral field it would of been very tough and hard fought games. Including Midland Lee in December.

I've seen teams lose to a team by 30 pts in September and then beat that same team in the playoffs by almost 30.

Also.. I've been the first to say on this site that there is teams from other States that can come play in Texas and do very well against the Top #15 Texas teams. What I strongly believe is Texas is heads and shoulders above every State when it comes "DEPTH OF SOLID TOP ECHLON TEAMS."

No other State can compete with Texas when it comes to the Depth of the skill of Texas when it comes to solid High School football play.

PS. SLC so called "average defense" from last season.. Would be a very stiff and solid top defense in just about every other State in America.

[dragonsdaddy]

r-l, you are the first poster to opine that the knockdown to end the slc-pack game was pi. who on the slc d was guilty, iyo.

[RockinL]

r-l, you are the first poster to opine that the knockdown to end the slc-pack game was pi. who on the slc d was guilty, iyo.


Im not trying to make it sound like SLC didnt deserve the W. They did. Im just saying that myself along with several other people sitting around me all said the same thing. We were looking at each other wondering why it wasnt called. It looked like #2 and #31 hit him in the back at about the same time. I believe #2 was the one that batted the ball down.
We were sitting on the Lufkin side on about the 20 yard line so I got a good look at it.
It's history now anyway.
Just my obsevation. Im not going to start an all out war over whether it was a missed call or not.
They are the DII champs.

[RidgePride]

I saw SLC paly twice last year...against Denton Ryan, and Lufkin.
SLC had an unbelievable offense. The defense was average.


I saw southlake play in no less than 6 games last year. I strongly disagree with their defense being average. They looked less than spectacular against stout competition. Denton Ryan and Lufkin were very good football teams - I don't think I need to give a run down of those two teams credentials.

Southlakes defense was sometimes dominant. I would say their defense was above average by several notches.

[Texasfrog]

I'm going to break out the DVD (SLC vs Lufkin) and take a look.

[farmerfan]

I may not have been at the game, but i have seen that game, I also saw WM play in the state title game that year, WM got better as the year went on, they were better than a top 10 Texas team that year, overall the quality amongst team was down in 2000, Katy drilled JT in the state title game, Lee won state with 3 losses killing a average Westlake team. WM could have and would have won a state title that year palying in Texas.
Froggy i never knew you were such omnipresent being, I mean it seems as if you have seen every major game ever to be played and your opinion is the only one that matters. I feel strong in my convictions that WM in 2000 would have beaten any team in Texas with the exception of Katy, the Tigers matched up better with the Rebels than any other team in the state, also teams in Texas were weaker that year than in most years, also saying teams would be among the top 15 is a bit of a stretch, do you really believe that a Denton Ryan or a Mansfield Summit would have beaten a Colerain? I dont, you might, thats fine, however your opinions and thoughts come from a very biased background, and thats why I and some others have a hard time resepcting them.

[RockinL]

I may not have been at the game, but i have seen that game, I also saw WM play in the state title game that year, WM got better as the year went on, they were better than a top 10 Texas team that year, overall the quality amongst team was down in 2000, Katy drilled JT in the state title game, Lee won state with 3 losses killing a average Westlake team. WM could have and would have won a state title that year palying in Texas.
Froggy i never knew you were such omnipresent being, I mean it seems as if you have seen every major game ever to be played and your opinion is the only one that matters. I feel strong in my convictions that WM in 2000 would have beaten any team in Texas with the exception of Katy, the Tigers matched up better with the Rebels than any other team in the state, also teams in Texas were weaker that year than in most years, also saying teams would be among the top 15 is a bit of a stretch, do you really believe that a Denton Ryan or a Mansfield Summit would have beaten a Colerain? I dont, you might, thats fine, however your opinions and thoughts come from a very biased background, and thats why I and some others have a hard time resepcting them.

As far as Im concerned...I only try and comment on teams Ive seen in person. The exception this past year being Mission Viejo and Colerain.

I dont think much of polls. I think once you get past the 7 or 8 best teams in the state (and it is usually obvious who they are without a poll), it becomes too much of a toss up between too many teams.

[Texasfrog]

I may not have been at the game, but i have seen that game, I also saw WM play in the state title game that year, WM got better as the year went on, they were better than a top 10 Texas team that year, overall the quality amongst team was down in 2000, Katy drilled JT in the state title game, Lee won state with 3 losses killing a average Westlake team. WM could have and would have won a state title that year palying in Texas.
Froggy i never knew you were such omnipresent being, I mean it seems as if you have seen every major game ever to be played and your opinion is the only one that matters. I feel strong in my convictions that WM in 2000 would have beaten any team in Texas with the exception of Katy, the Tigers matched up better with the Rebels than any other team in the state, also teams in Texas were weaker that year than in most years, also saying teams would be among the top 15 is a bit of a stretch, do you really believe that a Denton Ryan or a Mansfield Summit would have beaten a Colerain? I dont, you might, thats fine, however your opinions and thoughts come from a very biased background, and thats why I and some others have a hard time resepcting them.

I have been to alot of High school games. If you choose or dont choose to believe that its your choice. Omnipresent.. wow those are bigwords buddy.

Second.. I think you overlook some facts about a young team (Midland Lee) in 2000 taking a very long trip (15 hours) on buses almost across all of Texas and most of Louisiana to play a football game. That in itself is a very tough task. Also, Midland Lee got to the stadium about 1 1/2 hours before the game that night. How do I know ?? I WAS THERE. In fact I talked to coach Parchman for about 5 minutes before the opening kickoff. (How do think I know about the Arkansas REF's not being there....). I talked to the headman (Parchman) himself !!!!!!!

Third.. I was also at the State title game in PERSON (Midland Lee vs Westlake). You say it was a blowout ??? Wow, lets see the game was tied at Halftime 21-21 and Lee had a 6 pt lead for most of the second half until they scored to put it away late in the 4th qt ( 33-21).

I also think the Woodlands team of 2000 would of given West Monroe a topnotch game on a NEUTRAL field. Even Midland Lee said the Woodlands was the toughest defense they played against all that year. They held Benson to under 100 yds and beat him badly.

I mean.. If I go by you're reasoning of one games scores mean something. Than maybe the Odessa High (4-6) team was really a Texas top #5 team because they beat Midland Lee 27-17. So, by you're reasoning that Odessa High team that went (4-6) in Texas that year is really probably the Texas State Champs because they beat Midland Lee also.

But, I will agree with you on one thing. The best team that year was probably Katy. "I SAW THEM TO IN PERSON." They had the best all-around team with very balanced offense and stout defense.

Last... do I think teams like 2004 Denton Ryan could of played and competed against a team like Colerain ? YES. I can tell you this much. Denton Ryan is light years ahead of the Mckinley team that played against Colerain in the Ohio State Title game. I saw that game on DVD. That Mckinley team would be lucky to be a (6-4) level Texas 4A team. So, Colerain beating them by 40 pts is kind of a no-brainer to me. Because I think there was about 20 teams in Texas alone last year that would of smoked that Mckinley team by 50 pts.

I'm glad I'm talking to you. I now can say that the 2000 Odessa High team that went (4-6) in Texas and didnt even make the Texas playoffs was really the Texas 5A State champs because they beat Midland lee.

PS. How do you think the 2000 West Monroe team would of done in December playing Midland Lee in Midland, Tx after just making a 15 hour bus trip ? Just wondering...

LAST... I've been the first to say that there are several teams from other States that can come into Texas and play against the best teams from Texas and do well. Some would win and many would lose from YEAR TO YEAR.

But... no State in America has the depth of talented teams like Texas does. If you want to call that bias and subjective than so be it. I've lived in California , Virginia and now Florida. I've seen many of the so called top echlon teams from those States and seen a few in person and seen alot of games on DVD. What have I learned over the past 15 years from my travels and seeing High School football around the country. That these so called Prep National Polls are a freakin 100% JOKE.

I saw a team one time that was ranked #1 in the nation that I can promise my Soul wouldnt of won the Texas 4A title much less the 5A title.

[Texasfrog]

I saw southlake play in no less than 6 games last year. I strongly disagree with their defense being average. They looked less than spectacular against stout competition. Denton Ryan and Lufkin were very good football teams - I don't think I need to give a run down of those two teams credentials.

Southlakes defense was sometimes dominant. I would say their defense was above average by several notches.

I just fastforwarded the DVD to that last play in the SLC vs Lufkin game. It was a clean play. SLC had about 5 defenders standing all in that area and two of them were just waiting there playing the football waiting for it to come down. If anything the Lufkin WR ran into them.

But, really it was a CLEAN Play that deserved to be a "NO CALL" like it was.

[RockinL]

I just fastforwarded the DVD to that last play in the SLC vs Lufkin game. It was a clean play. SLC had about 5 defenders standing all in that area and two of them were just waiting there playing the football waiting for it to come down. If anything the Lufkin WR ran into them.

But, really it was a CLEAN Play that deserved to be a "NO CALL" like it was.
It wasnt a receiver it was Javorskie Lane...and he was standing still when the ball arrived. He ended up face down.

[Texasfrog]

It wasnt a receiver it was Javorskie Lane...and he was standing still when the ball arrived. He ended up face down.

Wow.. ok I'm going to watch it one more time... But, you're making me miss some of the Tx vs Tulane game .. Hahahahaha.

[concha]

Last... do I think teams like 2004 Denton Ryan could of played and competed against a team like Colerain ? YES. I can tell you this much. Denton Ryan is light years ahead of the Mckinley team that played against Colerain in the Ohio State Title game. I saw that game on DVD. That Mckinley team would be lucky to be a (6-4) level Texas 4A team. So, Colerain beating them by 40 pts is kind of a no-brainer to me. Because I think there was about 20 teams in Texas alone last year that would of smoked that Mckinley team by 50 pts.

Mckinley's presence in the Ohio D1 title game is probably the biggest fluke in the history of the Ohio D1 tournament. They were 7-3 with losses to multiple loss teams. Was Ryan significantly better than McKinley? Almost certainly.

I know that in your mind only Texans play real football, but Ryan lost to SLC twice, and decisively. In addition, they had three squeaker wins over MacArthur, Plano West and Highland Park (all 3-point wins) and dropped 38 to Midland. A very solid team? Sure. A reasonable shot at beating '04 Colerain? Please.

[Texasfrog]

It wasnt a receiver it was Javorskie Lane...and he was standing still when the ball arrived. He ended up face down.

Ok Rockin... Just played it over. Yes it is J.Lane and yes he ends face down and Lufkin player #34 is near him. BUT... SLC has DB #2, #21, #31 all basically waiting at the goal-line.

J. Lane is kind of moving toward the goal-line looking back for the football. All the SLC players are waiting for the ball to come down and #2 jumps about 8 feet in the air and knocks the ball down. J.Lane never really makes a play for the football other than looking at it. All the SLC players jump into the air to knock it down.

It looks like a very clean "NO CALL" type of play to me. The defenders have every right to the football as the offensive player.

That's how I see that play.

[RockinL]

Mckinley's presence in the Ohio D1 title game is probably the biggest fluke in the history of the Ohio D1 tournament. They were 7-3 with losses to multiple loss teams. Was Ryan significantly better than McKinley? Almost certainly.

I know that in your mind only Texans play real football, but Ryan lost to SLC twice, and decisively. In addition, they had three squeaker wins over MacArthur, Plano West and Highland Park (all 3-point wins) and dropped 38 to Midland. A very solid team? Sure. A reasonable shot at beating '04 Colerain? Please.
I saw Ryan and SLC....Ryan was outplayed, outmanned and whatever else I can think of.

[Texasfrog]

Mckinley's presence in the Ohio D1 title game is probably the biggest fluke in the history of the Ohio D1 tournament. They were 7-3 with losses to multiple loss teams. Was Ryan significantly better than McKinley? Almost certainly.

I know that in your mind only Texans play real football, but Ryan lost to SLC twice, and decisively. In addition, they had three squeaker wins over MacArthur, Plano West and Highland Park (all 3-point wins) and dropped 38 to Midland. A very solid team? Sure. A reasonable shot at beating '04 Colerain? Please.

Ok dude.... I would be very embarrassed also if I had a team like Mckinley make my State title game also. Stop making "EXCUSES" for them being so pathetic but yet still making the "THE SHOW" in Ohio ok. At least with both agree they werent that good and didnt play very good football. But, let see.. two loses by basically a touchdown (Lake Uniontown & Harding).

That tells me something when I see a team like that playing in the State title game. Something about "competition" comes to my mind or lack there of it.

Do I think Denton Ryan could of played the "MIGHTY COLERAIN" and given the "MIGHTY COLERAIN" team a game. "YES." That Denton Ryan team was freaking light years better then that Texas-JV team called Mckinley that played Colerain in the Ohio state title game.

What do you know about Denton ryan beside what you see on line sheets ?? Just wondering ? Where did their QB go ? Where did their other players go ? Who are their top underclassman ? How many players do they have in their program ? Hmmmmm... I'll be waiting since you're some kind of EXPERT on how good or bad Denton Ryan plays.

I'll tell you what.. If I was a betting man. I would bet that if Denton Ryan was in Ohio. They would of been in the Ohio Title game last year 2004.

Again.. your start comparing STATS and SCORES from Texas compared to Ohio. Nanananana, you should know better. Last time I looked I dont think I saw any Texas vs Ohio games last year.. Ohhhh, unless you're using Shaker Heights vs Gulf Shores Academy as your basis for something.

Also ,, one more time for you. I've stated it 100 times over for you but I guess you just keep refusing to read it. Colerain was a very good team last year 2004. They would of been right there with about 15 other Texas teams. PERIOD. If you choose to believe that or not that's your business.

Tyler Lee lost three games (7-3) and they still won the Texas 5A title. Hmmmm.

Again.. Stop making excuses for your Mckinley team that played in the Ohio Title game. They made it and they played it and they got beat. But, they were there and besides your "SPIN" they were one of the better and stronger teams in Ohio in 2004.

[Texasfrog]

Also Conchee. Since you want to use Denton Ryan scores in the Midland high , Irving Mac and Highland Park games as some kind of argument for Colerain. Answer me this...

Did Colerain play those teams last year ?? Yes or No will suffice. I think I already know the answer.

I guess you're just assuming that Colerain would of made "lunch meat" of teams like Irving Mac & Highland Park.

[RidgePride]

I know that in your mind only Texans play real football, but Ryan lost to SLC twice, and decisively. In addition, they had three squeaker wins over MacArthur, Plano West and Highland Park (all 3-point wins) and dropped 38 to Midland. A very solid team? Sure. A reasonable shot at beating '04 Colerain? Please.


None of us know. Denton Ryan was loaded with D1 talent so was MacArthur -

The only reason I feel Texas football is more advanced than other states is because of the emphasis that is placed on it here (not the talent alone).

5A Head football Coaches make 6 figures or very close to it - They do not teach classes. - they get fired for not winning. The middle schools and some peewee leagues run the offense and defense of the high school.
The Head Varsity Coach hires and fires the middle school coaches. Indoor facilities for practice during inclement weather (Southlake). Everything is placed on Winning. It is very much like college

How do you know so much about Texas football?

[KT2000]

The hype around this match up is already annoying me more than the Brad Pitt-Angelina Jolie or Tom Cruise-Katie Holmes media blitz.

Can we just get the teams to meet in a dark alley somewhere in the next week or two and throw down already?!

[NewSherriffInTown]

I think it has more to do with one particular person....

[KT2000]

Well, the stuff in this thread has definitely contributed, but the press I've read about the game along with things I've seen on national message boards make it sound like there's going to be a Bull Run reinactment prior to kickoff and that part two will be the actual game.

[RidgePride]

Well, the stuff in this thread has definitely contributed, but the press I've read about the game along with things I've seen on national message boards make it sound like there's going to be a Bull Run reinactment prior to kickoff and that part two will be the actual game.


I think it is mostly because everyone wants to see Texas lose

[wide-e-wide]

The hype around this match up is already annoying me more than the Brad Pitt-Angelina Jolie or Tom Cruise-Katie Holmes media blitz.

Can we just get the teams to meet in a dark alley somewhere in the next week or two and throw down already?!


Amen, brother...
The game is in September....good Lord...
If I talked non-stop to my daughter every day
about how big her birthday party was gonna be Labor Day
weekend...by the time it got her she would be very disappointed...
I think we are all setting ourselves up for a major let down.

[RidgePride]

Amen, brother...
The game is in September....good Lord...
If I talked non-stop to my daughter every day
about how big her birthday party was gonna be Labor Day
weekend...by the time it got her she would be very disappointed...
I think we are all setting ourselves up for a major let down.

Especially if REL gets beat.

[stevefoxsc]

I think it is mostly because everyone wants to see Texas lose

HAHA funny people always seem to want the texas team to lose i remeber during the rose bowl every one was just getting Furious with V.Y they wanted texas to lose so bad and when we won Ha wont believe how many got banned for forum cussing violations on buddypic.com not really a sports site so i don't recomend any of you going there

[Texasfrog]

HAHA funny people always seem to want the texas team to lose i remeber during the rose bowl every one was just getting Furious with V.Y they wanted texas to lose so bad and when we won Ha wont believe how many got banned for forum cussing violations on buddypic.com not really a sports site so i don't recomend any of you going there

Especially wnen it comes to football. Everyone wants to beat Texas. You can totally see it and sense it. I guess when your football teams are so hated..... "its the ultimate sign of respect."

[farmerfan]

Frog
Your assumptions on my post are wrong. I have never stated or used reasoning to indicate Odessa High should have been state champs in 2000. I also believe that WM would have beat Midland Lee in Midland in 2000, in my opinion, the Midland Lee team in 2000 was not a great team and WM showed that. So next time dont try to twist my words into somthing they do not mean. I have seen plenty of HS football in my day and I think when it comes to judging teams, I have a good idea what im talking about.
You think Denton Ryan would have given Colerain a good game is laughable, I live in Denton, I had the chance to see every Ryan game on TV last year, I have probably seen Ryan play as much as anyone over the last 4-5 years, sure they had a good ball club last year, it was no where near the level of 2001 or 2002 and they would not have played Colerain a good game.
You laugh at McKinley being so pathetic for being in a title game, well in 92 Euless Trinity made the playoffs with a losing record and advanced to a title game, so does that take away from the accomplishments of Judson?
Also Plano won a state title in 94 after losing 3 games and finishing 3rd in their district getting blown out by Lake Highland and Plano East, so for them to win a state title is not quite Texas standards is it?
I guess what it all comes down to is a difference of opinions you have yours and will not be able to convince me mine are wrong and vice versa.

[concha]

TexasFrogLordofAllHomers:

I am curious, which programs from outside of Texas do you think could match up well with the Top 10 Texas programs (no particular year, just on average)? I get the feeling that the list is short...

KT's Note- Keep it clean. Thanks!

[KT2000]

I'm not Texasfrog, but off the top of my head (in no particular order)...

Palm Bay (Florida)
Fort Lauderdale Dillard (Florida)
Tallahassee Lincoln (Florida)
Bradenton Southeast (Florida)
St. Thomas Aquinas (Florida)
Miami Carol City (Florida) and other top Miami area schools (Central, Northwest, etc.)
Lakeland (Florida)
Top Orlando area school...Edgewater, Apopka, etc. (Florida)
West Monroe (Louisiana)
East St. John (Louisiana)
Evangel Christian Academy (Louisiana)
De La Salle (California)
Long Beach Poly (California)
Mission Viejo (California)
Mater Dei (California)
Massillon (Ohio)
Canton McKinley (Ohio)
Colerain (Ohio)
Glenville (Ohio)- not sure of tradition but they seem to produce amazing talent
Charlotte Independence (North Carolina)- best program not many know about
Rockingham Richmond County (North Carolina)
Valdosta (Georgia)
Warner Robins (Georgia)
Hampton (Virginia)
Erie Cathedral Prep (Pennsylvania) and whoever the top team in the east of the state is (used to be Central Bucks West..not sure what's going on out there now).
Moss Point (Mississippi)
Whoever the top team or two in Alabama might be in a given year
Top greater Chicago area team...Mt. Carmel, Naperville Central, etc. (Illinois)
Springdale (Arkansas)- at least this year anyway

Again, the above is literally off the top of my head. I know there are a few more football academies in Louisiana that can compete with our top 10.

[RidgePride]

TexasFrogLordofAllHomers:

I am curious, which programs from outside of Texas do you think could match up well with the Top 10 Texas programs (no particular year, just on average)? I get the feeling that the list is short...

KT's Note- Keep it clean. Thanks!


There really are about maybe 30 or 40 schools around the nation that could compete in our top 10.

The Tenth best TX team would be state champs most of the time in Georgia,Virginia, Mississippi, Arkansas.

Our Tenth best last year would have been a team like REL in my opinion.

I think there are a lot of teams that match up talent wise. I would say realistically Texas may put only about 2 teams in top ten nationally. If there was a real top 100, Texas would have about 50 teams - Lots of depth.

[concha]

[QUOTE=RidgePride]

The Tenth best TX team would be state champs most of the time in Georgia,Virginia, Mississippi, Arkansas.

QUOTE]

Probably not in Georgia.

[KT2000]

Mississippi, Alabama and South Carolina might be the three most underrated football states in the country in my opinion.

[concha]

KT2000,

Here is my shot at a list:

California: DLS, Poly, MV (maybe 1 or 2 more)

Florida: Carol City, Lakeland, Bolles, Aquinas, Armwood Seffner

Ohio: Colerain, Elder, St. Xavier, St. Ignatius, St. Edward, Glenville, Warren Harding

Indiana: Warren Central, Ben Davis

Illinois: Providence Catholic, Joliet Catholic (one or two more)

Pennsylvania: Several good programs, but tough to pick a dominant 3 or 4

Missouri: Rockhurst and/or Blue Springs

Louisiana: I defer to your local knowledge

Oklahoma: Jenks, Union

Alabama: Hoover

Georgia: Lowndes County, Parkview, Camden County, LaGrange

I think states like NC, SC, MS and some others would have one or two


With more time, I could do a better list, but this is a start. No state is up to Texas in depth though. Texas is too big and the emphasis it puts on football is much greater than Cali, for example.

[concha]

Mississippi, Alabama and South Carolina might be the three most underrated football states in the country in my opinion.

Per capita, they turn out huge amounts of talent.

[concha]

I think there are a lot of teams that match up talent wise. I would say realistically Texas may put only about 2 teams in top ten nationally. If there was a real top 100, Texas would have about 50 teams - Lots of depth.

Ummm... 50 is digging pretty deep. Texas would assuredly have the most of any state by several, but half of the top 100 is a big stretch. You would probably have something like:

Texas: 15
California: 7-10
Florida: 7-10
Ohio: 7-10
Pennsylvania: 5ish
Georgia: 5ish
Illinois: 5ish
Louisiana: 3-5
Michigan: 2
Indiana: 2
Oklahoma: 2
Missouri: 2
NJ: 2
NC: 2

Lots of states with 1 or 2, plus slight variances from the above would fill in the list.

[RidgePride]

Ummm... 50 is digging pretty deep. Texas would assuredly have the most of any state by several, but half of the top 100 is a big stretch. You would probably have something like:

Texas: 15
California: 7-10
Florida: 7-10
Ohio: 7-10
Pennsylvania: 5ish
Georgia: 5ish
Illinois: 5ish
Louisiana: 3-5
Michigan: 2
Indiana: 2
Oklahoma: 2
Missouri: 2
NJ: 2
NC: 2

Lots of states with 1 or 2, plus slight variances from the above would fill in the list.

I actually agree with you - I think it is the first time.

[wide-e-wide]

Who cares?
The name of this website is 5aTexasFootball.com...the key word
being TEXAS...it's not USfootball.com or comepromoteyourstate'sfootball.com
or mydaddycanbeatupyourdaddy.com
IT IS 5A TEXAS FOOTBALL...

[concha]

Who cares?
The name of this website is 5aTexasFootball.com...the key word
being TEXAS...it's not USfootball.com or comepromoteyourstate'sfootball.com
or mydaddycanbeatupyourdaddy.com
IT IS 5A TEXAS FOOTBALL...

Who cares? Maybe the folks posting here.

[concha]

I actually agree with you - I think it is the first time.

Guess who is probably going to stop by to inform me in his usual charming manner that 50 is probably a conservative number for Texas...... ;) :eek:

[wide-e-wide]

Who cares? Maybe the folks posting here.

Oh you mean all of the people that you annoy the crap out of
every day? Those people?

[concha]

Oh you mean all of the people that you annoy the crap out of
every day? Those people?

You must be referring to all the "Texas sucks" and "Ohio rules" comments that I never made.

Do you ver have any value-added comments to make? You know, actual football information? Or do you just run around from thread to thread with empty little commentaries?

[wide-e-wide]

Take a poll...since your so big on numbers and polls...
See who everyone would rather see go away ...me or you?

BTW...I have forget about more football than you will ever know...
And guess what?...a very small percentage of it happened in OHIO.

[concha]

Take a poll...since your so big on numbers and polls...
See who everyone would rather see go away ...me or you?

BTW...I have forget about more football than you will ever know...
And guess what?...a very small percentage of it happened in OHIO.

If you know so much about football, then talk football. If you just want to make cute comments, then why not call a 976 number and ask for an airhead named "Bambi".

[wide-e-wide]

Speaking of an airhead named "Bambi"
Am I the one who is on here every day having
a pissing contest? The one who constantly bickers
back and forth like a broad?
If there is anyone around here that resembles "cute" or
"airhead" it is you.
Please go away...

And I have NEVER been a fan of Tyler Lee. In fact playing against them
in the same district for years...I developed quite a hatred for them.
But come September I will be a Lee fan, for the first time in my life.
And when they win...we will see how quick you disappear.

Pequeño hombre con el cerebro pequeño. Salga por favor. Sus antics están consiguiendo viejos y taladro.

[RidgePride]

Why all the hatred toward Concha - I know this is a Texas board - but A Texas State Champ will be playing an Ohio State champ so the conversations between Ohio and Texas should begin. IMO

By the way, 50 is more like an exaggeration.

[concha]

Speaking of an airhead named "Bambi"
Am I the one who is on here every day having
a pissing contest? The one who constantly bickers
back and forth like a broad?
If there is anyone around here that resembles "cute" or
"airhead" it is you.
Please go away...

And I have NEVER been a fan of Tyler Lee. In fact playing against them
in the same district for years...I developed quite a hatred for them.
But come September I will be a Lee fan, for the first time in my life.
And when they win...we will see how quick you disappear.

Pequeño hombre con el cerebro pequeño. Salga por favor. Sus antics están consiguiendo viejos y taladro.

Barring TexasFrog's "antics" (outright lies about my posts, exaggerations etc) that many (look in the mirror) took hook, line and sinker, I don't think there would have been conflicts. FYI, I have received PMs from several people expressing regret at my reception and appreciating the views I bring.

PS: I am hardly shocked by Texan rooting for a Texas team. Golly. Imagine that. Were you going to support Colerain prior to my arrival? :rolleyes:

[stevefoxsc]

Who cares?
The name of this website is 5aTexasFootball.com...the key word
being TEXAS...it's not USfootball.com or comepromoteyourstate'sfootball.com
or mydaddycanbeatupyourdaddy.com
IT IS 5A TEXAS FOOTBALL...

ooookkk...... but aren't there many teams from Texas playing out of state teams from ohio L.A cali Floridia so is it not in topic?

[Texasfrog]

Barring TexasFrog's "antics" (outright lies about my posts, exaggerations etc) that many (look in the mirror) took hook, line and sinker, I don't think there would have been conflicts. FYI, I have received PMs from several people expressing regret at my reception and appreciating the views I bring.

PS: I am hardly shocked by Texan rooting for a Texas team. Golly. Imagine that. Were you going to support Colerain prior to my arrival? :rolleyes:


See that's what I dont like about you CONCHEEEE !!! You say that Texasfrog is full of so called "antics" and "outright lies".. Show me what was a LIE or a so called "ANTIC."

YOu get your little PANTIES all whodded up because I & several others arent annoiting COLERAIN ,, I'm sorry.. "THE MIGHTY COLERAIN", as the greatest High school team in World History. That's what 99% of your BEEF is about. You just refuse to read the fact that I've stated about 100 times that, "Colerain would of been one of the top teams in Texas last season." You just keep turning your head to that.

Do I think Colerain would of come into Texas last year and kicked & knocked everyone upside the head ??? Nooooo,, I dont. And yes,, I do think there were several teams in Texas that could of not only played down for down with the MIGHTY COLERAIN,, but could of beat them on any given FRIDAY Night. Here is a few that I'll throw at you ( SLC, Lufkin, Longview, REL, Spring Westfield, Abilene, SV, Katy, Clear Lake and when 100% healthy late in the season Midland Lee). I would put those 10 tens Texas teams up against Colerain in 2004 and it would of been a very hardfought tough game "IN MY OPINION." I do think there is about 5 other Texas teams that could of also fought very hard with the "MIGHTY COLERAIN" and given them a tough game late into the 2nd Half.

If you dont like that.... TOUGH!!! I saw the "Mighty Colerain" play. Good team,,, right there with alot of Texas teams. However, not even close to the best High School team I've ever seen,,,, Sorry !!!

Also.. You can sit there and call me "Homer" or whatever "SPIN" you want to and keep putting words into my mouth "That I dont say." I've probably stated over and over 100's times that there are teams from other States that can come into Texas and do very well and win and lose games. But, I strongly believe ( and looks like alot of other Texans on here AGREE),, that Texas has the best depth when it comes to quality teams. I believe that there is NO OTHER STATE in AMERICA that comes even close with the DEPTH of Talented teams.. PERIOD.

And yes,,, I do believe the Texas #15 team would beat very soundly the #15 team in Ohio. I honestly dont think that would be much of a game.

Also, there are Texas 3A teams that would of beaten McKinley that played against Colerain for the Ohio Title.. These Texas 3A's teams from last season (Gilmer, Jasper, Cuero & Abilene Wylie) would of most likely beaten that Mckinley team by 14 or more pts.. That's my opinion.. If you want to call it "HOMER" that great.

[Texasfrog]

Frog
Your assumptions on my post are wrong. I have never stated or used reasoning to indicate Odessa High should have been state champs in 2000. I also believe that WM would have beat Midland Lee in Midland in 2000, in my opinion, the Midland Lee team in 2000 was not a great team and WM showed that. So next time dont try to twist my words into somthing they do not mean. I have seen plenty of HS football in my day and I think when it comes to judging teams, I have a good idea what im talking about.
You think Denton Ryan would have given Colerain a good game is laughable, I live in Denton, I had the chance to see every Ryan game on TV last year, I have probably seen Ryan play as much as anyone over the last 4-5 years, sure they had a good ball club last year, it was no where near the level of 2001 or 2002 and they would not have played Colerain a good game.
You laugh at McKinley being so pathetic for being in a title game, well in 92 Euless Trinity made the playoffs with a losing record and advanced to a title game, so does that take away from the accomplishments of Judson?
Also Plano won a state title in 94 after losing 3 games and finishing 3rd in their district getting blown out by Lake Highland and Plano East, so for them to win a state title is not quite Texas standards is it?
I guess what it all comes down to is a difference of opinions you have yours and will not be able to convince me mine are wrong and vice versa.

Farmer... you still dont get it do you ??? Would of West Monroe beat Midland Lee at Midland in SEPTEMBER.. Maybe, proabably, could be..!!!

The Midland Lee team of September was a very young inexperienced team that showed that it was a young team. They only had about "4 starters" back from the 1999 team. They were breaking in almost in entire new roster.

West Monroe was a "SENIOR" dominated team that played in the Louisiana Title game in 1999. They had like 17 "STARTERS" back.

Midland Lee took a very young , inexperienced team on a 15 hour bus trip to go play a very stout West Monroe "SENIOR" lead team @ WEST MONROE.
Hmmmmmmmm... 2+2= 4 huh....

Midland Lee showed two weeks later that they were still a very young inexperienced team.. They lost to a freakin (4-6) Odessa High team.. WOW. A NON-PLAYOFF Texas team beat the future 5A State Champs. Hmmmmmm ????

Could it be that Midland Lee was growing as a team over the early half of the season ???? Hmmmmmmmmm ????

The Midland Lee team that was playing football throughout the Playoffs wasnt the same team that was playing in early September in 2000. The younger inexperienced players grew up and bonded together and started "getting it."

Next.. My opinion on the Mckinley (Ohio) team isnt the fact they had lost 3 games going into the Ohio Title game. By the way they lost two games by a touchdown. My opinion of the Mckinley team is from watching the Ohio Title game on DVD. They werent very good (PERIOD). They were SLOW as a team and not very physical and very routine and average. There is probably in the ballpark of 40 Texas team that would of crushed that Mckinley team by 40 pts or more. Again... "THAT's my opinion."

Now, as far as the so called "RECORDS" go. There are tons of Texas teams that have played in the 5A Title games with two and sometimes three loses and they are still very sound teams. In fact,, most of the time the Texas 5A State champs has a few loses.

Now,,, just like I have an opinion.. YOU have an opinion. You say that Denton Ryan couldnt play with Colerain. Again,, that's your opinion.

I've seen both teams play (ON DVD). I watch the speed of the game, skill of the game and execution of the teams. Frankly I think the 2004 Denton Ryan team would of match-up very very well with the 2004 Colerain team.

The talent level on both teams is equal, the skill level on both teams is equal and the coaching on both teams is very equal !!!!!

PS.. I think there is also about 10 to 13 other Texas teams that would of matchup very equally witht the 2004 Colerain team in all those areas ( skill, speed, size, depth, execution, and coaching).

[concha]

See that's what I dont like about you CONCHEEEE !!! You say that Texasfrog is full of so called "antics" and "outright lies".. Show me what was a LIE or a so called "ANTIC." [Just llook at the exchange from a few weeks back. I won't look it up again for you.]

YOu get your little PANTIES all whodded up because I & several others arent annoiting COLERAIN ,, I'm sorry.. "THE MIGHTY COLERAIN", as the greatest High school team in World History. That's what 99% of your BEEF is about. You just refuse to read the fact that I've stated about 100 times that, "Colerain would of been one of the top teams in Texas last season." You just keep turning your head to that.

I have no problem with people not believing that Colerain was better than any Texas team last season. I know Texas, Louisiana, California etc posters who believe they were. Mr. Clean, for example, from Louisiana, went out of his way to get tapes of MV of Cali, SLC, Colerain etc and found Colerain to be clearly better. And he is not the only one. Your contention that the Top 15 in Texas could beat each other on any given day is false. That does not happen. For '05 most would call SLC, Lufkin, Abilene and one or two others (SV? Longview?) as the top teams in Texas. How is that possible if the #15 team is just as good? Maybe the top 5 Texas teams would have had a decent shot at Colerain. But #15? C'mon, man. That is just plain Texas-sized Homer-vision in 3D.


Do I think Colerain would of come into Texas last year and kicked & knocked everyone upside the head ??? Nooooo,, I dont. And yes,, I do think there were several teams in Texas that could of not only played down for down with the MIGHTY COLERAIN,, but could of beat them on any given FRIDAY Night. Here is a few that I'll throw at you ( SLC, Lufkin, Longview, REL, Spring Westfield, Abilene, SV, Katy, Clear Lake and when 100% healthy late in the season Midland Lee). I would put those 10 tens Texas teams up against Colerain in 2004 and it would of been a very hardfought tough game "IN MY OPINION." I do think there is about 5 other Texas teams that could of also fought very hard with the "MIGHTY COLERAIN" and given them a tough game late into the 2nd Half.

If you dont like that.... TOUGH!!! I saw the "Mighty Colerain" play. Good team,,, right there with alot of Texas teams. However, not even close to the best High School team I've ever seen,,,, Sorry !!!

Also.. You can sit there and call me "Homer" [I'm not the only one from the posts I've seen today] or whatever "SPIN" you want to and keep putting words into my mouth "That I dont say." [Well, i'm talking to the grandmaster of that...] I've probably stated over and over 100's times that there are teams from other States that can come into Texas and do very well and win and lose games. But, I strongly believe ( and looks like alot of other Texans on here AGREE),, that Texas has the best depth when it comes to quality teams. I believe that there is NO OTHER STATE in AMERICA that comes even close with the DEPTH of Talented teams.. PERIOD. [Where have I sais there is?]

And yes,,, I do believe the Texas #15 team would beat very soundly the #15 team in Ohio. I honestly dont think that would be much of a game.

Also, there are Texas 3A teams that would of beaten McKinley that played against Colerain for the Ohio Title.. These Texas 3A's teams from last season (Gilmer, Jasper, Cuero & Abilene Wylie) would of most likely beaten that Mckinley team by 14 or more pts.. That's my opinion.. If you want to call it "HOMER" that great.

Tell me, do Ohio teams typically run 90% of the time? Your claim, uttered many times. Credibility check on whatever aisle Texasfrog is on... :p

[Texasfrog]

First Concheee get it right.. I've always stated and still STATE that there is about #15 Texas teams that play upper echlon National caliber football.

Other off the top of my head from other States:

Louisiana: ECA, WM, J.C. and usually one or two others yearly.
Okla : Jenks, Tulsa Union and usually ne other.
Arkansas: Springdale and one other.
Ala : Hoover, Mountain Brook, Vestivia Hills and about 2 others.
GA : Valdosta, Parkview (most years), LaGrange
Fl : Jack. Bolles, St.Thomas Aquinnas and usually 2 others.
Note: Carol City and most Miami powers play "THUG BALL". Would get blown out by the Texas teams.

Cali : DLS, LB POLY, MV, MD, and about 3 others.. There is a MAJOR Fall off after those top 7 or so California teams.
Ohio : Most years the usuall suspects,, Colerain, Moeller, Glenville, and about 3 others from year to year.

Va: Hampton ( very overated back in the 90's). Saw them play in person several times and they are at best a very solid (8-2) Texas 4A team.

Missouri: Rockhurst, Blue Springs (both teams remind me of Katy, Tx)

Those are a few off the cuff. WOW.. that's like at least 30 something teams from other States that I think could compete very strongly with the Texas top #15. Wow, 30 Non-Texas teams. Ya, you're right .. I'm a "HOMER".

I've seen all of those teams play on DVD over the past 5 years. Some several times. Several of those teams above I've seen in person play many times because of the travels with my job. It gives me a great chance to see H.S. Football games throughout our Great Country.

[Texasfrog]

Tell me, do Ohio teams typically run 90% of the time? Your claim, uttered many times. Credibility check on whatever aisle Texasfrog is on... :p

Lets see.. you give me 3 teams to look at from Ohio .. "AND I DID". I even POSTED their STATS. One of those teams is most likely the #1 passing team in the whole STATE of OHIO.

Next.. I hardly think that THREE (3) teams is 90% of the teams in Ohio. HUH ????

Yes, I still think Ohio for 90% of the State is a " 3 yards and cloud of dust football State." Especially when you compare it to TEXAS. Where the SPREAD and BALANCED offense's are the NORM.

Try again there "SLAPPY".

Like I've said before... at least we both AGREE that the Mckinley team was a JOKE. Even youve stated pretty much that. (But they were playing in the OHIO Title game.. that tells me something !).

[concha]

Lets see.. you give me 3 teams to look at from Ohio .. "AND I DID". I even POSTED their STATS. One of those teams is most likely the #1 passing team in the whole STATE of OHIO. ["Most likely? Based on what? You talk out your keester. "Most likely". That's rock solid. Case closed. "Most likely" you just don't really have a clue. :rolleyes: ANd thos stats showed those three teams to pass what? 40% to 60% of the time? You can't even read stats. Where was the 3 yards and a cloud of dust, Spanky?]

Next.. I hardly think that THREE (3) teams is 90% of the teams in Ohio. HUH ???? [YOU said teams in Ohio run 90% of the time. YOUR words. Spoken with NO backup but regurgitated again and again and again]

Yes, I still think Ohio for 90% of the State is a " 3 yards and cloud of dust football State." Especially when you compare it to TEXAS. Where the SPREAD and BALANCED offense's are the NORM.

Try again there "SLAPPY". [Try what? I already shown your utter ignorance. Moeller is "most likely" the top passing team in Ohio? "Most likely"? That counts when saying things like "If your aunt had testicles she'd 'most likely' be your uncle". The fact is you have zero clue what the top passing team in Ohio is. And find me even a handful of Ohio D1 teams that don't pass between 1/3 and 2/3 of the time. I challenge you, Mister "3 yards and a cloud of dust" expert. I won't hold my breath, because yet again, you're just spouting crap you have no clue about and won't bother to try and back up because you are so ridiculously wrong.]

Like I've said before... at least we both AGREE that the Mckinley team was a JOKE. Even youve stated pretty much that.

............ This nimrod probably thinks Ohio teams still wear leather helmets....

[farmerfan]

Frog i guess you dont get it either do you, I guess Midland Lee was the only team that got better as the year went on, there is no way that WM got any better after that september game against Lee. In fact they were lucky to win another game or score over 30 points after that win. Who am I kiddin Im talking to the grand master of all HS football, what was I thinking even engaging in such a battle. Shame on me for thinking that WM improved as a team after the Midland Lee game in 2000 and Shame on me for thinking taht the result in December on a nuetral field or in Midland would have been the same outcome between those two teams.

You also missed my point on Trinity and Plano in 92 and 94, Trinity was not a good football team at all in 92, Plano was a little above average in 94 both teams made it to a state title game with one of thsoe schools winning one. It is also not the norm for a Texas team to win a title with a loss or two losses, in many cases schools win a state title undefeated, 1980 Permian won without a loss, 84 Permian did not have a loss, 85 yates undefeated, 86&87 Plano no defeats, 88 Carter no defeats, 89 and 91 Permian perfect, 90 Aldine Perfect, 93 Lewisville and Judson did not have a loss, 94 John Tyler perfect, 95 Rosevelt perfect, 96 Lewisville and Westlake were perfect, 97 Katy ?, 99 Midland Lee perfect, 2000 Katy perfect, 01 Mesquite was perfect, 02 Carroll was perfect, 03 North Shore perfect, 04 Carroll perfect. So where do you get the notion that most times the Texas state champ ends the season with a few losses?

[concha]

Frog i guess you dont get it either do you, I guess Midland Lee was the only team that got better as the year went on, there is no way that WM got any better after that september game against Lee. In fact they were lucky to not win another game or score over 30 points after that. Who am I kiddin Im talking to the grand master of all HS football, what was I thinking even engaging in such a battle. Shame on me for thinking that WM improved as a team after the Midland Lee game in 2000.


ff,

This guy spouts off garbage like no other. "Moeller is 'most likely' the top passing team in Ohio" (proof offered, NONE). "Ohio teams run 90% of the time" (proof offered, Colerain, an option team - 3 other team's stats ignored and no further proof offered). He even does things like say Ohio teams run 90% of the time, and then when stats show otherwise, will accuse Moeller of passing too much and then tries to change his tune to "balance", which he doesn't even understand as a basic concept. It's like debating Rainman (minus the math skills).

[RidgePride]

Chonch -
There really are about 15 top TX schools that could beat each other on a given night. There are about 5-10 schools that would give Southlake Carroll fits. If SLC played the top 15 TX schools in a row, they would not win them all.

I know that if Colerain has not seen the spread no huddle offense often, they would be lost trying to defend it. I promise you that. It doesn't matter how dominant your D-Line is because the ball is thrown quickly. It doesn't matter how skilled your DB's are because they will be all out of position. Almost flag football like.

Example

When SLC throws that first 12 yard completion then runs up to the line of scrimmage (no huddle) in Trips left - 8yds -
Then doubles to either side - 7yds -
Trips Right - 15 yds -
"5 receiver set" trips left doubles on the right- Touchdown. - Wait a second Where did that receiver come from? hey they scored on us in 1 min 12 sec

Hey Southlake please run the wishbone - we can stop that. Plus our D-Line is having no fun. Our Linebackers are not DB's quit making them play pass coverage.

Film will help very little.
Its like Tyson once said - "everyone has a plan until they get hit."

Of Course Colerain looked more unbeatable - They played lesser opponents.

If Colerain played in TX and you saw them in a few close games, they would not appear so invinsible.

[concha]

Chonch -
There really are about 15 top TX schools that could beat each other on a given night. There are about 5-10 schools that would give Southlake Carroll fits. If SLC played the top 15 TX schools in a row, they would not win them all. ["On any given night" is a far cry from "win a significant % of the time". The #15 team in Texas would beat SLC what... 1 game in 10? Maybe 2? Lufkin could probably do it 3-5 times in 10 - in my measure THAT is worthy of mention]

I know that if Colerain has not seen the spread no huddle offense often, they would be lost trying to defend it. I promise you that. It doesn't matter how dominant your D-Line is because the ball is thrown quickly. It doesn't matter how skilled your DB's are because they will be all out of position. [And as I said, SLC's running game would have been much, much less effective than normal, which has repurcussions for the passing game. I think we can agree to disagree on SLC-Colerain '04]

Example

When SLC throws that first 12 yard completion then runs up to the line of scrimmage (no huddle) in Trips left - 8yds -
Then doubles to either side - 7yds -
Trips Right - 15 yds -
"5 receiver set" trips left doubles on the right- Touchdown. - Wait a second Where did that receiver come from? hey they scored on us in 1 min 12 sec

Hey Southlake please run the wishbone - we can stop that.

Film will help very little.
Its like Tyson once said - "everyone has a plan until they get hit."

Of Course Colerain looked more unbeatable - They played lesser opponents. [True, and annihilated them. SLC faced some better opponents and had at least 3 close calls. Ohio was down in general in '04, I have no doubt that Colerain would have faced much closer games had they played in Texas]

If Colerain played in TX and you saw them in a few close games, they would not appear so invinsible.
...........

RP, I appreciate the reasoned debate/discussion, BTW.

[wide-e-wide]

This will just about sum it up for me.
Since I never add any value and I know nothing
about football....

Am I the one who has spent the better part of 2 months analyzing
ONE freakin' game?...if I did that would I be an expert?
ONE game that doesn't take place until freakin' September!!!
Not the history of football...Not who's who...ONE game!
That's when my "who cares?" statement comes in. You are
talking it to death...Good Lord.

And no I would not have been rooting for Lee regardless. I probably
wouldn't have cared at all. In September I'm all about my Panthers,
Longhorns and Cowboys...if it doesn't involve them...usually I don't care.
I pay attention...I read the scores...I know who is having a good year and
who is not. But I don't want to spend 2 months going over and over and over it...IN JUNE!!!!!

It's baseball season for God's sake...why do I have to post something about football Concha? Lighten up dude...

Oh I almost forgot my "cute" comment...we all know it wouldn't be an official Wideman post without a "cute" comment right?

What do you call a Jamaican proctologist?

A: Poke'Mon

[concha]

This will just about sum it up for me.
Since I never add any value [you rarely say anything about football on hte threads I've been on - I call it like I see it] and I know nothing
about football.... [Your words, not mine]

Am I the one who has spent the better part of 2 months analyzing
ONE freakin' game?...if I did that would I be an expert?
ONE game that doesn't take place until freakin' September!!!
Not the history of football...Not who's who...ONE game!
That's when my "who cares?" statement comes in. You are
talking it to death...Good Lord. [I have discussed REL-Colerain, Ohio and Texas football - which was alot of wasted time trying to engage Texasfrog in a reasoned discussion while having to defend myself against his untruths, how I think Texas looks in terms of the national scene....]

And no I would not have been rooting for Lee regardless. I probably
wouldn't have cared at all. In September I'm all about my Panthers,
Longhorns and Cowboys...if it doesn't involve them...usually I don't care.
I pay attention...I read the scores...I know who is having a good year and
who is not. But I don't want to spend 2 months going over and over and over it...IN JUNE!!!!! [So ignore the threads, ignore me. Last I checked i haden't sent one of my boys to your house to put a gun to your head]

It's baseball season for God's sake...why do I have to post something about football Concha? Lighten up dude... [Then why are you on a football message board? Get on the baseball board. It's not rocket science.]

Oh I almost forgot my "cute" comment...we all know it wouldn't be an official Wideman post without a "cute" comment right?

What do you call a Jamaican proctologist?

A: Poke'Mon [What does he typically remove?..............A: Frogs]



...........................................

[RidgePride]

Summed up!

[wide-e-wide]

Send one of your boys to my house?
What are you Tony Soprano now?
Send somebody to my house and I assure
you they will be carrying their Ohio from it...
That's what happens when you send a "boy" to deal with man.

Ignore is a good idea...thanks...that's just what I will do.
And Drew Carey sucks.

KT's note- consider this your warning wide. Keep it clean please. Thanks!

[concha]

Send one of your boys to my house?
What are you Tony Soprano now?
Send somebody to my house and I assure
you they will be carrying their Ohio *** away from it...
That's what happens when you send a "boy" to deal with man. [Lighten up, Francis. Did you have humor bypass surgery?]

Ignore is a good idea...thanks...that's just what I will do. [Excellent. Bye!]
And Drew Carey sucks. [Seeing as he is from Cleveland, I will agree with you wholeheartedly. Though his bank balance might disagree with us]


...........................

[wide-e-wide]

Summed up!

I guess that's why football is called "America's pastime"

[Red Raiders]

Go my Team!

[concha]

Go my Team!


Hey,

Just how good is this new QB of yours? I'm hearing alot of good things (meaning bad for Colerain).

[Texasfrog]

ff,

This guy spouts off garbage like no other. "Moeller is 'most likely' the top passing team in Ohio" (proof offered, NONE). "Ohio teams run 90% of the time" (proof offered, Colerain, an option team - 3 other team's stats ignored and no further proof offered). He even does things like say Ohio teams run 90% of the time, and then when stats show otherwise, will accuse Moeller of passing too much and then tries to change his tune to "balance", which he doesn't even understand as a basic concept. It's like debating Rainman (minus the math skills).

Since your so full of "FACT" there Mr. Ohio is so Great. Show us the top passing team from Ohio. Lets see them compared to Moeller passing stats. By the way, Moeller would of been like around #15th best passing team "STAT Wise" in Texas last season.

But, since you have all the STATS. Show everyone the FACT !!!!! Show everyone that Moeller wasnt the best "large school" at passing in Ohio.

Dont worry CONCHEE. I know its alot easier to go ahead and tell everyone I'm a liar and distorter and ect than you actually "SHOW SOME PROOF".

Show some Proof Conch !!! I know , I know.. I'm a liar and distorter..

[Colerain-Cards]

News Flash: Most Ohio teams do not run 90% of the time. Someone needs to learn math!

[Texasfrog]

Frog i guess you dont get it either do you, I guess Midland Lee was the only team that got better as the year went on, there is no way that WM got any better after that september game against Lee. In fact they were lucky to win another game or score over 30 points after that win. Who am I kiddin Im talking to the grand master of all HS football, what was I thinking even engaging in such a battle. Shame on me for thinking that WM improved as a team after the Midland Lee game in 2000 and Shame on me for thinking taht the result in December on a nuetral field or in Midland would have been the same outcome between those two teams.

You also missed my point on Trinity and Plano in 92 and 94, Trinity was not a good football team at all in 92, Plano was a little above average in 94 both teams made it to a state title game with one of thsoe schools winning one. It is also not the norm for a Texas team to win a title with a loss or two losses, in many cases schools win a state title undefeated, 1980 Permian won without a loss, 84 Permian did not have a loss, 85 yates undefeated, 86&87 Plano no defeats, 88 Carter no defeats, 89 and 91 Permian perfect, 90 Aldine Perfect, 93 Lewisville and Judson did not have a loss, 94 John Tyler perfect, 95 Rosevelt perfect, 96 Lewisville and Westlake were perfect, 97 Katy ?, 99 Midland Lee perfect, 2000 Katy perfect, 01 Mesquite was perfect, 02 Carroll was perfect, 03 North Shore perfect, 04 Carroll perfect. So where do you get the notion that most times the Texas state champ ends the season with a few losses?

I'll give you the list of Texas 5A teams that have won State titles with a few loses soon. If you say that a Texas team won the or played for a State title and they werent good. That's your opinion.

Last.. there is no doubt that West Monroe got better throughtout the season in 2000. There is also no doubt that Midland Lee got alot better.

At the start of the 2000 season West Monroe was a very experienced, scrappy "SENIOR" laden team returned somewhere around 16 starters from a team that played in the Louisisna Title game in 1999.

Midland Lee returned like " 4 starters" from their 1999 team. They had mostly underclassman on the team.

Huge difference between two teams in September amigo (Senior laden team with around 15 returning starters & Junior laden team with only 4 returning starters). On top of the September experience level.. Midland Lee took a very "young team" on a very long road trip to play in a very hostile environment.

If you cant see the "HUGE Difference" in all of that for an early September game then so be it.

I'll say it again.. Those two teams meet in December on a Neutral field you would of seen a totally different game then what you saw on that early September night in Monroe, La. I'll leave it at that.

[Texasfrog]

Farmer.. here is a list just going back 12 years of Texas teams that won Texas 5A titles with a less than perfect record. Again,, this is just going back 12 years.

2004: Tyler Lee ( 12-3)
2003: Katy (15-1)
2002: Judson (14-1)
2000: Midland Lee (13-2)
1999: Garland (15-1)
1998: Midland Lee (15-1)
1998: Ducanville (12-3)
1997: FM Marcus (14-2)
1997: Katy (14-1)
1995: Judson (14-1)
1994: Plano (12-3)
1993: Judson (13-0-2) two ties.
1993: Lewisville (15-0-1).

So, there are several Texas teams that have won Texas titles with a less than perfect season. Yes, a few have two losses and a few had even three losses on the season and were still able to pull out the State Title.

Now, many of the teams they faced in those Title games also had 1 or 2 losses on the season. In fact I've seen alot of Texas 5A title games were both teams playing had 1 loss each on the season.

Its hard to go through Texas with a "PERFECT SEASON" on the 5A level. That's why the teams that do it get such high phrase.

Let me guess..?? These are more lies and distorts truths from me. Just wondering...

[Texasfrog]

Hey,

Just how good is this new QB of yours? I'm hearing alot of good things (meaning bad for Colerain).


You'll find out how good he is soon enough.. Clown.

[NewSherriffInTown]

Uh-Oh...

Frog broke out "Clown" again.


Also, Wideman...


you have over 1000 posts since the forum was opened up, so I don't think you need to worry about Concha talking about one game too much. I've fought with Concha plenty of times. I'm not a buddy of his...


HOW-EVA

you definitely never post anything of substance. you write Haiku's or something about random stuff.

You Flood and Frog Spins....

[wide-e-wide]

I NEVER post anything of substance?
Well I'll just take my ball and go home then.
Maybe I should do like some of these clowns do...
and flood the board with meaningless stats and
gibberish about who could beat who...

Never is a pretty strong word.
Surely in over a 1000 posts I have
said something of substance.

I'm not sure...but I think you hurt my feelings. sniff sniff...

[KT2000]

Man, we had a perfectly civil conversation going there for a bit. I might have to start getting the itchy ban trigger if we can't keep things respectable. Too many threads (especially this kind) keep ending up in pointless and ridiculous name calling contests.

[wide-e-wide]

Player hating no
what you should be hating is
game that it comes from...

5-7-5 right?

There you go, I'm catching on...woo-hoo!

[lufkin_82]

i feel pretty comfortable with tyler lee representing our state against ohio. you could have taken a pick out or lee, slc, longview, sv, lufkin, and a few others and id still be comfortable with them. i dont think high school football is bigger anywhere else than here in texas and i believe lee will show them that.

[Texasfrog]

Farmer.. here is somemore Texas teams that won 5A State titles with less than a perfect season.

1992: Temple (15-1)

1991: Killeen (12-2-1)

1990: Marshall (14-2) crushed by Waco 36-7. Waco went (10-2) that year.

1988: Dallas Carter (14-0-1) probably the best team I ever saw. They were
tied 24-24 by a (8-2-1) Duncanville team.

1986: Plano (14-2)

Now going back roughly 20 years of Texas football. There has been 18 Texas teams win 5A State titles that werent undefeated..

Now you were saying something about most Texas teams that win the 5A title go undefeated ? I dont think so....

[farmerfan]

froggy
Reread my post, then Reread your post, you said losses, not ties, you have included teams with tiesm, who most likely would have won in OT in those years. With the exception of 86 Plano you pretty much repeted my post.

I also want to know if a 3 loss McKinley team can make a Ohio state title game so bad, why can a 5 loss Trinity team make a Texas title game and it not be so bad?

You say the 88 Carter team was the best you have seen, once again that is your opinion, I have seen clips of the 85 Yates team, one of my oldest friends dad's played for Yates in the 60's, he has flim of the 85 team, him and Coach Booker are real close, the 85 Yates team would have demolished the Carter team, also the 90 Aldine team was as scary a team as I have seen, and then the 03 Shore team, who I saw once on TV and a few times on film, was better than the 88 Carter team.

What comes of all this discussion is once again we all have a difference of opinions, I respect the opinions of the majority on this site, but I have found that if people do not agree with the all knowing froggy, then you attack and attempt to demean their points. I think that you should try to think outside your box and realize that people within the state that you do not live in, have thoughts that might not agree with you, and at times could have a better point than you do.

[RidgePride]

froggy


I also want to know if a 3 loss McKinley team can make a Ohio state title game so bad, why can a 5 loss Trinity team make a Texas title game and it not be so bad?

You say the 88 Carter team was the best you have seen, once again that is your opinion, I have seen clips of the 85 Yates team, one of my oldest friends dad's played for Yates in the 60's, he has flim of the 85 team, him and Coach Booker are real close, the 85 Yates team would have demolished the Carter team, also the 90 Aldine team was as scary a team as I have seen, and then the 03 Shore team, who I saw once on TV and a few times on film, was better than the 88 Carter team.


FF- I usually do not agree with you - because your thinking is skewed.
I do agree with you about 88 Carter team though. I actually saw the game against Duncanville that year. That Carter team is very overrated. They had several close games that year and probable should have lost to Marshall. Tell me this FF do you think That NorthShore team was better than Colerain?

The 5-5 Trinity team that went to the State championship was definitely a fluke. It was the luck of the Draw. They were 3rd in their district that year. I think their first round opponent was like 4-6.

So it can happen in Ohio Too.

[farmerfan]

How is my thinking skewed? In 3+ years of posting on this site, you are the 1st one to tell me that, my thinking is usually objective and within reason. Maybe you do not like it, but if you look past what you want to read my thoughts are usually pretty accurate and to the point.

Do I think 04 Colerain would have beat 03 Northshore? No. I will repeat what the gurus on this site have said about that team, the knew it way before anyone else in this state did, and that is they were a special team that does not come around to often, I do not think I have ever seen a team that could beat that team, in my mind it was the best HS football team ever in this state and possibly the nation.

As far as that Trinity team was concerend, your a smart one to suggest they were third in there district considering they had 5 losses and made the playoffs. I also used them to prove to froggy that even in Texas we will have a team that will make a title game that has no business being there. Trinity was more of a disgrace being in a title game than McKinley was for Ohio, it was a point that he can not dispute because the facts show Trinity was weak. I do not care if it was luck of the draw or not, Trinity played against teams that were better than they were, but still managed to come away with the victory, the same could be said for McKinley this past year in Ohio.
I guess that is why some of you guys say I seem to be rooting for Ohio more than for Texas in this game. When in reality that is not the case, I just laugh at the ignorance that you base how good some teams outside of Texas are, then totally ignore your own criteria when you size up the Texas teams.
Once again mr ridge, tell me where do I skew my information?

[concha]

Since your so full of "FACT" there Mr. Ohio is so Great. Show us the top passing team from Ohio. Lets see them compared to Moeller passing stats. By the way, Moeller would of been like around #15th best passing team "STAT Wise" in Texas last season.

But, since you have all the STATS. Show everyone the FACT !!!!! Show everyone that Moeller wasnt the best "large school" at passing in Ohio.

Dont worry CONCHEE. I know its alot easier to go ahead and tell everyone I'm a liar and distorter and ect than you actually "SHOW SOME PROOF".

Show some Proof Conch !!! I know , I know.. I'm a liar and distorter..

Given that you are the one talking out your keester, shouldn't this be your job? So far, you have looked into the stats of some 4 of Ohio's 700+ teams. This is enough research to crown Moeller the passing king of Ohio? I have not stated that Moeller ISN'T the #1 passing team. Why? Because I don't know if they are even close to it. Just like YOU don't.

Here's an interesting little factoid for you, TexaFlog, from my little old 90% running state:
The QB of Kenton (Ben Mauk - and Kenton is in Ohio) holds the national record for most passing yards in a career at 17,000+, the most yards in a season at 6,500+ and is also second for most yards in a season at 5,700+. I believe he plays at Wake Forest now.

[concha]

News Flash: Most Ohio teams do not run 90% of the time. Someone needs to learn math!

A certain poster here doesn't let actual facts or data get in the way of his arguments.....

[concha]

You'll find out how good he is soon enough.. Clown.

I was sitting here in my huge, floppy shoes and honking my big red nose thinking "What does he mean calling ME 'clown'????".

[dragonsdaddy]

there was an exception that proved the rule back in the 80's when beaumont joined forces and closed hebert. that team floundered for 3-4 games, then found themselves and proceeded to take state. they were definitely the best multiloss team to win a title, imo.

[Texasfrog]

froggy
Reread my post, then Reread your post, you said losses, not ties, you have included teams with tiesm, who most likely would have won in OT in those years. With the exception of 86 Plano you pretty much repeted my post.

I also want to know if a 3 loss McKinley team can make a Ohio state title game so bad, why can a 5 loss Trinity team make a Texas title game and it not be so bad?

You say the 88 Carter team was the best you have seen, once again that is your opinion, I have seen clips of the 85 Yates team, one of my oldest friends dad's played for Yates in the 60's, he has flim of the 85 team, him and Coach Booker are real close, the 85 Yates team would have demolished the Carter team, also the 90 Aldine team was as scary a team as I have seen, and then the 03 Shore team, who I saw once on TV and a few times on film, was better than the 88 Carter team.

What comes of all this discussion is once again we all have a difference of opinions, I respect the opinions of the majority on this site, but I have found that if people do not agree with the all knowing froggy, then you attack and attempt to demean their points. I think that you should try to think outside your box and realize that people within the state that you do not live in, have thoughts that might not agree with you, and at times could have a better point than you do.

Farmer... apparently you're not reading "MY POST." The point about Mckinley isnt their "RECORD". I wouldnt care if they won or lost 2 or 3 games. My evaluation of Mckinley was based on what "I SAW" of them. They were "SLOW , poor execution of play (line play and QB play), not alot of skilled kids or talent and were extremely "BASIC". They looked like a Texas 4A (6-4) type of team at best. And "NO" I dont think it was Colerain "greatness" that made Mckinley look bad. I think Mckinley was just BAD. I still say that Texas had several 3A teams last year that would of easily beaten that Mckinley team by at least 14 pts if not a little more.

Also.. I'm 100% positive that there was probably 5 or so teams in Ohio that were better than Mckinley. But, for that Mckinley team to even be in the Ohio Top #10 is pretty much a joke in my opinion because they wouldnt of even been in the top #50 in Texas.

Go back and read your post.. You said that most of the Texas 5A Champs have "PERFECT RECORDS". Sorry, a "TIE" isnt a perfect record. That's why they refer to ties as "kissing your sister" in football termilogy. I think there is more teams that have won Texas 5A titles with a blemish or two on their records than "NOT." The "PERFECT Season" that you say is very common among Texas 5A Champs is not true..

Last.. Yes,,, the Dallas Carter team was one of the best teams I ever saw play. Who would win between them and the 2003 North Shore team ??

I DONT KNOW !!! & YOU DONT KNOW !!! Both were very talented teams with alot of skill and speed at almost every position.

[Texasfrog]

I was sitting here in my huge, floppy shoes and honking my big red nose thinking "What does he mean calling ME 'clown'????".

Like I said.. you'll see how good he is soon enough when he shreds that weak secondary or takes off running with his 4.5 speed. Along with alot of other talented Tyler Lee kids. Got it .. "HONK HONK"

[concha]

I don't think I ever saw McK ranked higher than #13 in Ohio D1 (and more than one lower division team was better). They would have been at #4 or #5 at best just in Cincy in D1.

More ignorant exaggeration from you know who.....

[farmerfan]

no froggy, you reread your own post, you said Texas teams winning state with sevearl losses, I post the the teams who have won state that did not suffer a defeat, if you see my list of teams you will see that I said either perfect or undefeated.

[RidgePride]

Last.. Yes,,, the Dallas Carter team was one of the best teams I ever saw play. Who would win between them and the 2003 North Shore team ??

Both were very talented teams with alot of skill and speed at almost every position.


The Key word being "Team" - That 88 Dallas Carter team was overrated as far as on the field. (they were good, but not best ever). They had several close playoff games that year and should have lost to Marshall.


They match up well with GPNS talent wise.


GPNS is the better team.

[Texasfrog]

The Key word being "Team" - That 88 Dallas Carter team was overrated as far as on the field. (they were good, but not best ever). They had several close playoff games that year and should have lost to Marshall.


They match up well with GPNS talent wise.


GPNS is the better team.


Talent wise the Dallas Carter team was loaded. I believe three of the players saw time in the NFL. Heck , one of them is still playing in the NFL (Lb-jesse armstead).

Who would win out of 2003 GPNS vs 1988 D. Carter ??? I think that could be debated either way. I dont really look at scores to much. I look at the caliber of the teams and how "THEY" would match-up. I think the Dallas Carter & GPNS team matchup very similiar in overall skill, talent and speed and it would of been one heck of a game. Some may say GPNS,, Some may say Carter... the best I can say is "Toss Up."

[wide-e-wide]

Now is this Dallas Carter with ineligible players or without?
That makes a big difference.

[Texasfrog]

Now is this Dallas Carter with ineligible players or without?
That makes a big difference.

Well,,, the Dallas Carter team that actually played in the State Title game. We all know the deal about what happened to many of the players and ect.

But, the Carter team that won State vs the GPNS team that won state. I think it would of been a very tough hardfought game. Both teams to me "matchup" very evenly.

[RidgePride]

Well,,, the Dallas Carter team that actually played in the State Title game. We all know the deal about what happened to many of the players and ect.

But, the Carter team that won State vs the GPNS team that won state. I think it would of been a very tough hardfought game. Both teams to me "matchup" very evenly.


It is hard for me to say Carter was better when I actually watched The Duncanville game that they tied.

Carter was not dominant that year. GPNS was dominant the whole year.

[concha]

Word is that Colerain LBer Cobrani "Cobra" Mixon has given an unofficial verbal to Michigan.

Michigan looks to love Colerain these days. They took RB Mister Simpson last season and apparently have expressed serious interest in Junior-to-be DB Eugene Clifford.

I wonder how much fan mail I'll get for this heinous attack on Texas football...

[stevefoxsc]

Talent wise the Dallas Carter team was loaded. I believe three of the players saw time in the NFL. Heck , one of them is still playing in the NFL (Lb-jesse armstead).

Who would win out of 2003 GPNS vs 1988 D. Carter ??? I think that could be debated either way. I dont really look at scores to much. I look at the caliber of the teams and how "THEY" would match-up. I think the Dallas Carter & GPNS team matchup very similiar in overall skill, talent and speed and it would of been one heck of a game. Some may say GPNS,, Some may say Carter... the best I can say is "Toss Up."


dude the 2003 gpns team was loaded with speed the type of speed that dallas carter couldn't handle gps would have blown them away so bad they probably would have admitted to useing inelgible just so they could have been DQ and i dont mean dairy queen

[RockinL]

Word is that Colerain LBer Cobrani "Cobra" Mixon has given an unofficial verbal to Michigan.

Michigan looks to love Colerain these days. They took RB Mister Simpson last season and apparently have expressed serious interest in Junior-to-be DB Eugene Clifford.

I wonder how much fan mail I'll get for this heinous attack on Texas football...
There you go again you troublemaker...bragging about your home state!!
I couldnt resist........ :p

[sltnusmc]

I believe some of those Dallas Carter players went to the pen for armed robbery!!!!!!!!!

[Warbird]

Yep. At least one of them was an All-American. Shame, what wasted talent... :mad:

[Texasfrog]

There you go again you troublemaker...bragging about your home state!!
I couldnt resist........ :p


Hey RockinL.. dont hate on Michigan. They need all the help they can get. They just got beat in the Rose Bowl by hmmmmmm.. TEXAS !!!

[Texasfrog]

It is hard for me to say Carter was better when I actually watched The Duncanville game that they tied.

Carter was not dominant that year. GPNS was dominant the whole year.

Ya, the Ducanville team was pretty solid though and sent alot of kids off to the higher level themselves. If I remember right.. Barry Foster was their stud "RB" and went on to have alot of 1,000 yd rushing seasons in the NFL.

GPNS was tough there isnt any doubt about it. I went to Pasadena to watch them play Clear Lake. They totally demolished a pretty solid Clear Lake team.

[Texasfrog]

I believe some of those Dallas Carter players went to the pen for armed robbery!!!!!!!!!

That's right.. A few of them went to the Big House . One of them was a star (All-American) DB that committed to Tennessee but changed his committed to the Texas Prison system last I heard.

[wide-e-wide]

Which by the way, has an outstanding football squad.
They have Michael Irvin at WR, Nelly at RB, and an unbelievable
defense.

Uh-oh...that post had no substance. I'd better shut up before
somebody calls me out.

[Texasfrog]

Which by the way, has an outstanding football squad.
They have Michael Irvin at WR, Nelly at RB, and an unbelievable
defense.

Uh-oh...that post had no substance. I'd better shut up before
somebody calls me out.

Ya, if you toured the Texas Prison system. You could probably put together a couple of NFL caliber teams !!

[RidgePride]

Ya, the Ducanville team was pretty solid though and sent alot of kids off to the higher level themselves. If I remember right.. Barry Foster was their stud "RB" and went on to have alot of 1,000 yd rushing seasons in the NFL.

GPNS was tough there isnt any doubt about it. I went to Pasadena to watch them play Clear Lake. They totally demolished a pretty solid Clear Lake team.

No actually that was a little after the Barry Foster Days - Duncanville's Running back was Andre Luster went to UNLV.

The Two Losses for Duncanville were to L.D.Bell and Plano - tied Carter.

[concha]

Colerain linebacker Cobrani Mixon has officially verballed to Michigan.

Their other star linebacker, Tyler Moeller, has just received an offer from Ohio State.

They may well need guys like this given their losses on the d-line.

Ohio D1 looks to be more competitive overall compared to last year. The Sporting News pre-season poll has four Ohio teams ranked in the Top 50 with Colerain at #6, St. Ignatius at #10, Glenville at #22 and Moeller at #44. We shouldn't have a team dominate everything as Colerain did in '04.