underacheiving teams

[mdfootball]

what teams are chronic underachievers? teams with a lot of talent, good fan support, or other advantages, that always seem to dissapoint?

[GoShay]

The first one that immediately comes to mind is North Shore. Epic talent. Can never get it done. As a matter of fact IMHO, you can pretty much tie in all other R3 teams outside of Katy as of the last 10-15 years with a nice little pink bow on top.

[bowiedawgs01]

North Shore is the first team that popped into my head as well.

[knowitall mom]

In central Texas the biggest underachiever has to be:
Round Rock McNeil

Every year they sign numerous players to d1 & d2 scholarships.
After our (Westlake) scrimmage each year, I think, wow, that McNeil team is going to make some noise. They have handled us or maybe dominated us in our scrimmages the last 2 years. But, they usually fizzle out and win only 1 or 2 district games.

[trojanbacker]

Although not chronic, Trinity definitely underachieved last year.

[E-Vol-ution]

Even though we didn't have support from any factions including the students themselves, Arlington Bowie was a perfect example before 2006.

[Plano Wildcat Fan]

Although not chronic, Trinity definitely underachieved last year.

I don't think so. They didn't have RB talent like they did the previous year and honestly their oline wasn't nearly as strong as in previous years. That is your bread & butter. In additon their secondary was again suspect compared to the title team.

Their is no shame going 13-1.

[KT2000]

The first one that immediately comes to mind is North Shore. Epic talent. Can never get it done. As a matter of fact IMHO, you can pretty much tie in all other R3 teams outside of Katy as of the last 10-15 years with a nice little pink bow on top.

North Shore's missed chances to do better as far as state championships go, but I consider North Shore one of the best programs in the state hands down. Compared to other programs in the Houston area with similar talent, North Shore is an example others in the area would do well to model themselves after.

When David Aymond took over the program in the mid-90s, they were a primarily losing outfit. He turned them into an area powerhouse very quickly. Aymond consistently fields some of the best defensive teams in the state.

Underachieving programs don't win over a 100 games in a decade.

[bake34]

Desoto
Duncanville
Plano East

[Wypirates03]

Wylie, Allen, Katy (yeah... they could have had like 15 championships in a row), Copperas Cove (as long as Welch is their coach)...

j/k

[The King]

Langham Creek.

[BackNBlack97]

The Woodlands, Lufkin

[wesaxman34]

I agree w/ The Woodlands.

[ktchamp97]

GoShay, I also disagree with North Shore. Other teams such as...

Eisenhower, Lamar, Humble, Hastings, Elsik, Spring, and West Brook (to name a few) have done far less than North Shore with arguably better, to much better, talent.

[SLC93]

North Shore's missed chances to do better as far as state championships go, but I consider North Shore one of the best programs in the state hands down. Compared to other programs in the Houston area with similar talent, North Shore is an example others in the area would do well to model themselves after.

When David Aymond took over the program in the mid-90s, they were a primarily losing outfit. He turned them into an area powerhouse very quickly. Aymond consistently fields some of the best defensive teams in the state.

Underachieving programs don't win over a 100 games in a decade.

Yeah, I agree. I'm one of the first to rail on NS, their sos and their early exits. That said, it is all relative. There is no way you can put them on this list. Were it a post season list perhaps they would head it up but even then it's not like they lose in the first round every year. They are a tremendous testament to what program can do for a school. They win because of it, every single year.

[Fleeman93]

I agree with North Shore underacheiving. Every year they are a top ranked team that is undefeated going into the playoffs and something happens. Every year I say this year will be different and The Sho will play for state for sure but nothing. I will have to go back and look at the playoff exits since 2003 to confirm my thoughts.

[SLC93]

I agree with 3 teams mentioned already. The Woodlands, Desoto and Duncanville really have little excuse for not having more skins on the wall. D & D ooze talent every year and the resources available at the Woodlands are unbelievable, from facilities to talent.

[SLC93]

I agree with North Shore underacheiving. Every year they are a top ranked team that is undefeated going into the playoffs and something happens. Every year I say this year will be different and The Sho will play for state for sure but nothing. I will have to go back and look at the playoff exits since 2003 to confirm my thoughts.

Totally agree with this sentiment. It's exactly how I feel about them many years but I think they're only qualified for a list of post season under acheivers. They've got the regular season mastered, no?

[Fleeman93]

Totally agree with this sentiment. It's exactly how I feel about them many years but I think they're only qualified for a list of post season under acheivers. They've got the regular season mastered, no?

I think the PO's are way more important than the regular season so it holds more weight to me. North Shore should be beating the team they play during the regular season so I am not surprised there.

[ktchamp97]

I agree with North Shore underacheiving. Every year they are a top ranked team that is undefeated going into the playoffs and something happens. Every year I say this year will be different and The Sho will play for state for sure but nothing. I will have to go back and look at the playoff exits since 2003 to confirm my thoughts.
Pay close attention to who knocked them out each time. They've run up against some really strong teams in Region 3. Should they have won a greater percentage of those games? Sure, but I still think they get a bad rap, overall. If it were so easy to do what they've done, the programs I've listed above wouldn't be so incredibly far behind North Shore in the grand scheme of things.

[Fleeman93]

Pay close attention to who knocked them out each time. They've run up against some really strong teams in Region 3. Should they have won a greater percentage of those games? Sure, but I still think they get a bad rap, overall. If it were so easy to do what they've done, the programs I've listed above wouldn't be so incredibly far behind North Shore in the grand scheme of things.

That is exactly my point, they should have won more of those games. There is no reason at all that North Shore should have lost at home to Judson in 2007 for example.

[Matthew 2000 Eagle]

Even though we didn't have support from any factions including the students themselves, Arlington Bowie was a perfect example before 2006.

Throw Sam in there as well! Talent has been there forever!

[ktchamp97]

That is exactly my point, they should have won more of those games. There is no reason at all that North Shore should have lost at home to Judson in 2007 for example.Obviously, I agree with you. I'm just saying that there are many teams from the Houston area alone that have done far less than North Shore and thus are far more relevant to this discussion. North Shore's "underachieving" is relative to the expectations created by their own success. The other teams I mentioned aren't as recognized as underachievers because they've had relatively little success. See what I'm getting at?

[Maxthedog]

I'm not sure I would throw DeSoto under the 'Underachieving bus'.
I would relate/define this term more to lack of effort based on talent level.
DeSoto's problem has never been lack of effort, their problem has been the 'Shoot foot, reload, shoot foot, repeat repeat'.
Given the number of mistakes they make vs good teams and are still in the hunt at the end of the game, no I wouldn't call them Underachievers.

If your definition is 'talent vs results' regardless of the reasons, yea I guess they fit that.

2009 they are loaded with skilled players(they were a very young team last year), at most if not all positions. A very dangerous team in 09.

[KOfb92]

Klein Oak made the quarterfinals, but definitely underachieved with that roster. And the year before with Desean Hales and Terrence Robinson...along with pretty much the same team just less experience they only made it 2 rounds in the playoffs. I personally hold the coaches responsible for that, there's no way those teams should have ended their seasons the way they did. This year's roster IMO had more talent than Katy's but they have a heck of a coaching staff there.

[GoShay]

GoShay, I also disagree with North Shore. Other teams such as...

Eisenhower, Lamar, Humble, Hastings, Elsik, Spring, and West Brook (to name a few) have done far less than North Shore with arguably better, to much better, talent.

To clarify my opinion, I was primarily referring to post season success compared to pre season expectations. I'm not a fan of R3 at all although I graduated from a (then) R3 school in BMT Central. If we stayed in 5A, I would have easily put us at the top of the list. Our late 80's - early 90's teams were loaded with talent, but never made a significant run. So with that being said, I hereby personally throw West Brook under the bus. Just as much if not more talent, just as little success. (the James Brown led teams circa 91 - 93 could stack up against anybody favorably on paper. But we all know where the games are and are not played)

[KT2000]

North Shore is Celina compared to most Houston area programs as far as consistent success is concerned.

[Wrecking Crew 12]

Pflugerville.

[su4c]

I'm not sure I would throw DeSoto under the 'Underachieving bus'.
I would relate/define this term more to lack of effort based on talent level.
DeSoto's problem has never been lack of effort, their problem has been the 'Shoot foot, reload, shoot foot, repeat repeat'.
Given the number of mistakes they make vs good teams and are still in the hunt at the end of the game, no I wouldn't call them Underachievers.

If your definition is 'talent vs results' regardless of the reasons, yea I guess they fit that.

2009 they are loaded with skilled players(they were a very young team last year), at most if not all positions. A very dangerous team in 09.

This.

I saw fumbles in my nightmares last season.

[Fan4Life]

Ya know, maybe losing some regular season games would be good for North Shore. Let the boys taste defeat early on so that they know how it feels and then they will strive to not have that feeling again. Becuase going 10-0 every regular season is not helping them at all, exception 2003.

[GoShay]

North Shore is Celina compared to most Houston area programs as far as consistent success is concerned.

Yes KT, that may be true. But, my theory is that if you always suck and have no expectations placed upon you, have you really underachieved? NS has a higher hurdle to clear based on the expectations set for them. For example, no one expects Baylor to compete for the BCS, therefore they are not considered underachievers. Georgia, Notre Dame, Florida State, Tennessee, and until '05 and the greatness that was VY, Texas could have easily been thrown into that mix. High expectations not being met consistently based on tradition, talent level, and previous success WHEN IT COUNTS = underachievement.

[Fan4Life]

This.....
Usually North Shore isn't tested until Round 3 of the playoffs.

Exactly, and when things get tuff they fall apart.

Quote me now, the season North Shore loses a regular season game, they will get to the semis or finals!

[KT2000]

This.....
Usually North Shore isn't tested until Round 3 of the playoffs.

Oh dear...

[GoShay]

Exactly, and when things get tuff they fall apart.

Quote me now, the season North Shore loses a regular season game, they will get to the semis or finals!

So then it seems that you're subscribing to the theory of a "good loss". The only way this can be is if the team in question has intestinal fortitude. From all accounts, this isn't the case with NS. I've seen Trinity in '05 lose their lase reg. season game to SGP after absolutely steamrolling the first 9 opponents. It took them 3 rounds of playoff ball to resemble the team I was used to seeing. I do know that they still had to win 3 playoff games to get to that point, but it was obvious that the swagger of that team was gone and they won those games by "gutting them out".

[KT2000]

Yes KT, that may be true. But, my theory is that if you always suck and have no expectations placed upon you, have you really underachieved? NS has a higher hurdle to clear based on the expectations set for them. For example, no one expects Baylor to compete for the BCS, therefore they are not considered underachievers. Georgia, Notre Dame, Florida State, Tennessee, and until '05 and the greatness that was VY, Texas could have easily been thrown into that mix. High expectations not being met consistently based on tradition, talent level, and previous success WHEN IT COUNTS = underachievement.

I've stated they could have done better in certain seasons. North Shore is way down on my list of underachieving Houston area programs though. They've actually won state and have been a factor every season Aymond's been there, which is more than most programs in the state can say for themselves over the last decade or two.

[KT2000]

I HATE when you do that? What I do? Spell it wrong? lol

I can't believe you of all people, after all those posts last December, would ever drop the untested card.

Since tooplaya isn't here right now... :eek:

[GoShay]

I've stated they could have done better in certain seasons. North Shore is way down on my list of underachieving Houston area programs though. They've actually won state and have been a factor every season Aymond's been there, which is more than most programs in the state can say for themselves over the last decade or two.

Unlike most posters, I wont go back and forth just to prove my point or make you see it my way. I see your point and I hope you see mine.

[ftballin11]

I HATE when you do that? What I do? Spell it wrong? lol


No, he said that because that's what people say about Katy.

[Fleeman93]

Obviously, I agree with you. I'm just saying that there are many teams from the Houston area alone that have done far less than North Shore and thus are far more relevant to this discussion. North Shore's "underachieving" is relative to the expectations created by their own success. The other teams I mentioned aren't as recognized as underachievers because they've had relatively little success. See what I'm getting at?

I'm with you 100%. It is all about expectations and in my opinion the certified #2 team in the Houston area should have done more than what they have with the talent that has come through. By comparison, if Katy were to have three 13 win seasons in a row I would have to start asking questions.

[dada]

No, he said that because that's what people say about Katy.

True...but I think Katy has a "Wake up" game every so often....Woodlands 06, Hastings 07 and the entire 08 season.

[GoShay]

I think that what he's saying is, rolling through the regular season untested has it perks and disadvantages. Are you THAT good or is the other team THAT bad? Dosen't have to be a loss, but maybe a CLOSE game, make the kids dig deep and pull out a victory and come out of that comfort zone...if not, you never know how they react when they're not pulling starters in the 3rd quarter and the other team is still standing and fighting back. Just using NS as an example, but that goes for any team. I don't want to wait until the playoffs to figure out how my kids deal with adversity.

dada, I got your point but to me, it's even more maddening because NS is a reg. season juggernaut. Am I wrong? I'm not exactly sure about the strength of their district, but they usually schedule some very competitive non district games and they seem to get through them pretty well. It's the unexplainable losses to playoff teams that they clearly have a talent advantage over that warrants the "underachiever" label.

[Fleeman93]

I've stated they could have done better in certain seasons. North Shore is way down on my list of underachieving Houston area programs though. They've actually won state and have been a factor every season Aymond's been there, which is more than most programs in the state can say for themselves over the last decade or two.

I see what you are saying and if I looked at it that way I would throw IKE or Humble in there but who really cares. Like someone said, there is no achievement to under with those teams.

[Fleeman93]

dada, I got your point but to me, it's even more maddening because NS is a reg. season juggernaut. Am I wrong? I'm not exactly sure about the strength of their district, but they usually schedule some very competitive non district games and they seem to get through them pretty well. It's the unexplainable losses to playoff teams that they clearly have a talent advantage over that warrants the "underachiever" label.

Agreed.

[Raving Fan]

would you lump in some of the Pearland teams before Dawson came into the picture?

[Fan4Life]

I think that what he's saying is, rolling through the regular season untested has it perks and disadvantages. Are you THAT good or is the other team THAT bad? Dosen't have to be a loss, but maybe a CLOSE game, make the kids dig deep and pull out a victory and come out of that comfort zone...if not, you never know how they react when they're not pulling starters in the 3rd quarter and the other team is still standing and fighting back. Just using NS as an example, but that goes for any team. I don't want to wait until the playoffs to figure out how my kids deal with adversity.

Hit the nail on the head!

[packfan22]

At first thought, I as a Lufkinite would think that the Panthers would fit in here. With all the talented players that have come through. One champonship is all we have too show for it. We just happen too face a well oil machine from Southlake too many times. We should have won in 2002,just think we had the better team but just did not get in done, and could point fingers at what pack fans thought was the problem, but no need too at the point in time.Internal problems in 2003 kill the team at half season.After that those fire breathing Dragoons were always there, then some early exits followed.Lufkin is going through some down years now ,but we stilll back them....but most of the times the best teams always win it all...............

[businesstron]

At first thought, I as a Lufkinite would think that the Panthers would fit in here. With all the talented players that have come through. One champonship is all we have too show for it. We just happen too face a well oil machine from Southlake too many times. We should have won in 2002,just think we had the better team but just did not get in done, and could point fingers at what pack fans thought was the problem, but no need too at the point in time.Internal problems in 2003 kill the team at half season.After that those fire breathing Dragoons were always there, then some early exits followed.Lufkin is going through some down years now ,but we stilll back them....but most of the times the best teams always win it all...............


I wouldn't call Lufkin under achievers.... Y'll have won a state title in the ten years so y'll are disqualified. Lufkin plays good even in down years. Northshore isn't underachieving either.... they go atleast 3 rounds deep in the playoffs every year....that's not under achieving...

But here are a few who under achieve.......

Desoto
South Grand Prarie
Duncanville since 04
Aldine Eisenhower...as a matter of fact all Aldine schools
PA Memorial
Houston Lamar
Skyline up until a couple of years ago...
Any school in El Paso
Mesquite recently
Pflugerville
SA Madison
SA Warren?...or Roosevelt...can't remember
Mansfield ISD lotta good talent there...
Spring Westfield..
Beaumont Westbrook...

Probably more...

[E-Vol-ution]

In all fairness.....I'm willing to bet not one single ISD in Texas spawned as many high schools in the past 8 years. Summit, Timberview, Legacy in addition to Mansfield. Anybody compare to that?I wouldn't call Lufkin under achievers.... Y'll have won a state title in the ten years so y'll are disqualified. Lufkin plays good even in down years. Northshore isn't underachieving either.... they go atleast 3 rounds deep in the playoffs every year....that's not under achieving...

But here are a few who under achieve.......

Desoto
South Grand Prarie
Duncanville since 04
Aldine Eisenhower...as a matter of fact all Aldine schools
PA Memorial
Houston Lamar
Skyline up until a couple of years ago...
Any school in El Paso
Mesquite recently
Pflugerville
SA Madison
SA Warren?...or Roosevelt...can't remember
Mansfield ISD lotta good talent there...
Spring Westfield..
Beaumont Westbrook...

Probably more...

[MHSfootball]

In central Texas the biggest underachiever has to be:
Round Rock McNeil

Every year they sign numerous players to d1 & d2 scholarships.
After our (Westlake) scrimmage each year, I think, wow, that McNeil team is going to make some noise. They have handled us or maybe dominated us in our scrimmages the last 2 years. But, they usually fizzle out and win only 1 or 2 district games.


AMEN!!! This year I hope we turn things around.

[4th & short]

Plano West
Plano East (biggest enrollment in TX and can't do anything)
Lake Highlands (Most players in the NFL and have not won a state championship since 1981)
North Mesquite (loaded with talent and rarely make the playoffs much less anything more)
Rowlett (Had one run in the history of the school and have great talent on the line each year)

[AE 8008]

Well maybe I "Worded" it wrong....It's cool to pull out your pistol to show it off, but you don't want to be starring down the barrell of another gun wondering if you actually have bullets in yours or that it actually fires.

doesnt SLC play NS?

[AE 8008]

first that popped in my head was lufkin, but ill agree with eisenhower. idk what happened to grapevine last year either. and abilene for that matter..

[SLC93]

I'm not sure I would throw DeSoto under the 'Underachieving bus'.
I would relate/define this term more to lack of effort based on talent level.
DeSoto's problem has never been lack of effort, their problem has been the 'Shoot foot, reload, shoot foot, repeat repeat'.
Given the number of mistakes they make vs good teams and are still in the hunt at the end of the game, no I wouldn't call them Underachievers.

If your definition is 'talent vs results' regardless of the reasons, yea I guess they fit that.

2009 they are loaded with skilled players(they were a very young team last year), at most if not all positions. A very dangerous team in 09.

This.

I saw fumbles in my nightmares last season.


Fellas, I get the spirit of what you're saying but the goal is to execute. On offense you do not want to turn the ball over, churn forward and put the ball in the end zone. To continually have issues with that is to fail to acheive the most basic of goals of that unit. The same is to be said for a defense that constantly gives up a big play. They fail to acheive the results their talent dictates they should have, by alot. There is no way around that.

[Maxthedog]

Fellas, I get the spirit of what you're saying but the goal is to execute. On offense you do not want to turn the ball over, churn forward and put the ball in the end zone. To continually have issues with that is to fail to acheive the most basic of goals of that unit. The same is to be said for a defense that constantly gives up a big play. They fail to acheive the results their talent dictates they should have, by alot. There is no way around that.

Yea Yer right 93. It's just that I used to have a buddy aligned with the DeSoto team and saw/have seen many a DeSoto heartbreaker games. If the shoe fits,,,,I'm trying to dress a duck but it's still a duck.
We will see if they can get the program out of this funk, this year. There are no excuses anymore(new coach, young team,,)all last years news.

[DRAGON PRIDE]

San Antonio SW has been an under achieving team their last two years!! Coaching in the big games is the problem along with player injury!! Our game plan against SV in the third round to me was wrong but Im not a coach just a HOMER!!

[su4c]

Fellas, I get the spirit of what you're saying but the goal is to execute. On offense you do not want to turn the ball over, churn forward and put the ball in the end zone. To continually have issues with that is to fail to acheive the most basic of goals of that unit. The same is to be said for a defense that constantly gives up a big play. They fail to acheive the results their talent dictates they should have, by alot. There is no way around that.

Yea Yer right 93. It's just that I used to have a buddy aligned with the DeSoto team and saw/have seen many a DeSoto heartbreaker games. If the shoe fits,,,,I'm trying to dress a duck but it's still a duck.
We will see if they can get the program out of this funk, this year. There are no excuses anymore(new coach, young team,,)all last years news.

It's all gonna come down to Mathis. DeSoto has had the elite talent for awhile now, but can't seem to get the chemistry and discipline to get them to the next level. If Mathis can do that, the Eagles could be serious title contenders.

If he can't do it soon (especially with the teams he'll have the next few years), then he'll likely be gone. With the tremendous expectations for this season, he'll probably be able to feel his seat getting warm if DeSoto has another letdown in the playoffs.

[EagleDude73]

PEARLAND OILERS

Name the sport Pearland is there in and you can graffiti the FAIL before the end.

[Wypirates03]

True...but I think Katy has a "Wake up" game every so often....Woodlands 06, Hastings 07 and the entire 08 season.

Too bad they were awake during the finals...

[LH fan]

Lake Highlands (Most players in the NFL and have not won a state championship since 1981)

I'd agree with this. LH had the teams in the 90s to win a couple of state championships, but for one reason or another, just couldn't get over the hump. We faced some excellent teams that knocked us out such as Temple in '92, FM Marcus '95 and Abilene Cooper in '97 in one of the greatest games I've witnessed. For one reason or another, we just couldn't get it done though.

Then the dry-spell the last few years knocked the wind out of the sails. Good times are returning though as Coach Smith's staff is getting kids excited to play ball again.

[alleneagle4]

Allen could be considered underachieving up until the 2008 season

Had the capability to win a few titles this decade before 08

and definitely underachieved in 2007 :o
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[4th & short]

I'd agree with this. LH had the teams in the 90s to win a couple of state championships, but for one reason or another, just couldn't get over the hump. We faced some excellent teams that knocked us out such as Temple in '92, FM Marcus '95 and Abilene Cooper in '97 in one of the greatest games I've witnessed. For one reason or another, we just couldn't get it done though.

Then the dry-spell the last few years knocked the wind out of the sails. Good times are returning though as Coach Smith's staff is getting kids excited to play ball again.

I agree. Those were some of the best games I've ever seen. Don't forget Huntsville in '89. Also, I think the best team you ever had lost to Carter in the first round after going 10-0 in the regular season in 1990. Should have a state championship to show for all of those wins and players.