Big-12 (North) & Big-12 !!!

[Texasfrog]

Well, Well, well, well... Looks like all those national so called "EXPERTS" that some of ya'll worship like the gospel werent so right after all huh ??!!..

I think Nebraska beating Michigan and Mizzou beating South Carolina pretty much seals the deal that the Big-12 North wasnt as shabby as many of you blowhards tried to claim all season.

Michigan was a top #3 Big-10 team and South Carolina played everyone in the (SEC) pretty much toe to toe.

Colorado would of probably beaten Clemson if they had their starting qB playing in the game. Clemson only winning by 9 against basically a 3rd string Colorado QB doesnt impress me one bit. In fact it kind of validates Clemson weak 1 pt win over Texas A&M (Non Big-12 bowler). Just think.. Clemson is one of the better ACC teams.

Oklahoma beating #6 Oregon also pretty much slaps dirt in all the national press core.

Iowa St vs TCU.. well I"m pulling for TCU in that one.

Texas Tech and Texas need to close the deal out !!!

Again.. all you blowhards that all season claimed the Big-12 was really weak and pathetic and blah blah blah. Well.... just doesnt look that way.

As far as the ACC being a better football conference then the Big-12. All I can say is PPLLLEEEASSEE put that to rest.:rolleyes:

[lonny23]

Well, Well, well, well... Looks like all those national so called "EXPERTS" that some of ya'll worship like the gospel werent so right after all huh ??!!..

I think Nebraska beating Michigan and Mizzou beating South Carolina pretty much seals the deal that the Big-12 North wasnt as shabby as many of you blowhards tried to claim all season.

Michigan was a top #3 Big-10 team and South Carolina played everyone in the (SEC) pretty much toe to toe.

Colorado would of probably beaten Clemson if they had their starting qB playing in the game. Clemson only winning by 9 against basically a 3rd string Colorado QB doesnt impress me one bit. In fact it kind of validates Clemson weak 1 pt win over Texas A&M (Non Big-12 bowler). Just think.. Clemson is one of the better ACC teams.

Oklahoma beating #6 Oregon also pretty much slaps dirt in all the national press core.

Iowa St vs TCU.. well I"m pulling for TCU in that one.

Texas Tech and Texas need to close the deal out !!!

Again.. all you blowhards that all season claimed the Big-12 was really weak and pathetic and blah blah blah. Well.... just doesnt look that way.

As far as the ACC being a better football conference then the Big-12. All I can say is PPLLLEEEASSEE put that to rest.:rolleyes:
LONG LIVE THE BIG 12. The Tech and UT games are the one's that matter a lot more than the other 6 games.

[Sacred Ground]

LONG LIVE THE BIG 12. The Tech and UT games are the one's that matter a lot more than the other 6 games.
Inorder to win the BCS Conference Trophy, they all matter! But the Longhorns need to bring the National Championship home!

[Sacred Ground]

I remember when the Big 8 became the Big 12. There was much debate whether Baylor should be invited in. What if TCU had been invited in, instead of Baylor? Would TCU have made the Big 12 even stronger? How would TCU have faired, playing head to head against the other Big 12 schools?

[lonny23]

I remember when the Big 8 became the Big 12. There was much debate whether Baylor should be invited in. What if TCU had been invited in, instead of Baylor? Would TCU have made the Big 12 even stronger? How would TCU have faired, playing head to head against the other Big 12 schools?
The problem is Houston was supposed the be the team that got invited. The Cougars would've been a strong team. UT and A&M kept Houston out to steal the top players out of Houston.

[Sacred Ground]

The problem is Houston was supposed the be the team that got invited. The Cougars would've been a strong team. UT and A&M kept Houston out to steal the top players out of Houston.
Was Houston in the Old SouthWest Conference?

[Sacred Ground]

Was Houston in the Old SouthWest Conference?
This brings up an interesting trivia question. What schools made up the Old Southwest Conference?

[lonny23]

This brings up an interesting trivia question. What schools made up the Old Southwest Conference?
Arkansas (until 1990)
Baylor
Rice
TCU
SMU
Texas Tech
Houston
Texas
Texas A&M

There were others in the past, but that was everybody since the 50's and maybe 40's.

[lonny23]

Hey, check out my Texas in Kyrgyzstan thread. Even non-horns have to like that!:D

[FootballJunkie]

The Big -12 north sucks!!! Buffaloes lost and Iowa St. lost so just like we said at the start of the year holds true at the end. The power of the Big 12 is in the south. Just for reference the number 7 ACC team beat Texas A&M and the so-called Big 12 north champion Buffaloes!!!:p

[Sacred Ground]

The Big -12 north sucks!!! Buffaloes lost and Iowa St. lost so just like we said at the start of the year holds true at the end. The power of the Big 12 is in the south. Just for reference the number 7 ACC team beat Texas A&M and the so-called Big 12 north champion Buffaloes!!!:p
So what you are saying is, the ACC is a better conference than the Big 12, because the Big 12 North is weak. Then maybe it should be the Big 6. Send Oklahoma and Ok. State back and reform the Big 8. And the Texas schools can recuit TCU and SMU to join the New Big 6. This idea might work today with the fat TV contracts being thrown around, but 10 years ago, we learned that 2 or 3 big schools cannot financially support an entire conference. This is what caused the financial collapse of the Southwest Conference.

[Texasfrog]

I remember when the Big 8 became the Big 12. There was much debate whether Baylor should be invited in. What if TCU had been invited in, instead of Baylor? Would TCU have made the Big 12 even stronger? How would TCU have faired, playing head to head against the other Big 12 schools?

Baylor is slowly on there way to turning the corner. They probably wont ever be a Texas, Tx Tech or Oklahoma level Big-12 team. But, I think they are on there way to being a (7-4) type of team and playing in second tier bowl games.

[Texasfrog]

The Big -12 north sucks!!! Buffaloes lost and Iowa St. lost so just like we said at the start of the year holds true at the end. The power of the Big 12 is in the south. Just for reference the number 7 ACC team beat Texas A&M and the so-called Big 12 north champion Buffaloes!!!:p

Hahaha... that has to kill you that Nebraska beat Michigan and that Mizzou beat South Carolina. Two Big-12 North teams that you claimed were pathetic all year.

Clemson can pretty much "Thank God" that Colorado was playing without their starting QB are they would of beaten Clemson. Everyone knows that !!

Clemson was lucky to beat Tx A&M by 1 pt in Clemson no less. That says it all to me.

The real fact is this... The Big-12 from top to bottom is a better football conference then the ACC.

[Sacred Ground]

Baylor is slowly on there way to turning the corner. They probably wont ever be a Texas, Tx Tech or Oklahoma level Big-12 team. But, I think they are on there way to being a (7-4) type of team and playing in second tier bowl games.
7-4 would be a good record in the Big 12.

[Sacred Ground]

Hahaha... that has to kill you that Nebraska beat Michigan and that Mizzou beat South Carolina. Two Big-12 North teams that you claimed were pathetic all year.

Clemson can pretty much "Thank God" that Colorado was playing without their starting QB are they would of beaten Clemson. Everyone knows that !!

Clemson was lucky to beat Tx A&M by 1 pt in Clemson no less. That says it all to me.

The real fact is this... The Big-12 from top to bottom is a better football conference then the ACC.
Thanks for the support of the Big 12 North, Texasfrog. I was beginning to think, what does the North need to do to get some respect? Run the table!

[jtk1519]

The problem is Houston was supposed the be the team that got invited. The Cougars would've been a strong team. UT and A&M kept Houston out to steal the top players out of Houston.

That's not really the reason Houston wasn’t wanted. When the Big XII was formed, they wanted a private school in the conference and it was either Baylor, Rice, TCU or SMU. Look carefully at every major conference and you will notice that they all have at least one private school in there. The Pac 10 has Stanford and USC, the ACC has Duke and Miami, the SEC has Vanderbilt the Big 10 has Northwestern, etc. There is a very good reason for that. It has something to do with the fact that none of the universities have to open their books if there is a private university in the conference. That is why these private schools are in these conferences to begin with and that is why they aren’t going anywhere. That is also the reason Houston never really stood a chance to get in the Big XII.

[lonny23]

So what you are saying is, the ACC is a better conference than the Big 12, because the Big 12 North is weak. Then maybe it should be the Big 6. Send Oklahoma and Ok. State back and reform the Big 8. And the Texas schools can recuit TCU and SMU to join the New Big 6. This idea might work today with the fat TV contracts being thrown around, but 10 years ago, we learned that 2 or 3 big schools cannot financially support an entire conference. This is what caused the financial collapse of the Southwest Conference.
TV killed the SWC. They found out they were going to lose out because the market share of Texas alone wasn't going to make enough money. This was when they were creating super conferences. The Big 8 was going to lose out, too and they were smart to get the Texas schools.

Look at these populations. I'll give the state to the favorite teams in each state:

Pac-10
Alaska 600K
Arizona 5.5M
California 35.1M
Idaho 1.3M
Montana 900K
Oregon 3.5M
Washington 6.1M

Big 12
Colorado 4.5M
Kansas 2.7M
Missouri 5.7M
Nebraska 1.7M
Oklahoma 3.5M
Texas 21.8M

Big 10
Illinois 12.6M
Indiana 6.2M (2/3 goes to Notre Dame)
Iowa 2.9M
Michigan 10.1M
Minnesota 5.0M
North Dakota 600K
Ohio 11.4M
Pennsylvania 12.3M
Wisconsin 5.4M

SEC
Alabama 4.5M
Arkansas 2.7M
Georgia 8.6M (I'll give 1/3 to ACC)
Kentucky 4.1M
Louisiana 4.5M
Mississippi 2.9M
Tennessee 5.8M

ACC
Maryland 5.5M
North Carolina 8.3M
Virginia 7.3M
Washington, DC 600K

Big East
Connecticut 3.5M
Maine 1.3M
Massachusetts 6.4M
New Hampshire 1.3M
New Jersey 8.6M
New York 19.2M
Rhode Island 1.1M
Vermont 600K
West Virginia 1.8M

Mountain West
Nevada 2.2M
New Mexico 1.9M
Utah 2.3M
Wyoming 500K

No clue or divided for
Delaware 800K (Split between Big 10 and ACC)
Florida 16.7M (Split between SEC and ACC with ACC getting 2/3)
Hawaii 1.2M (Split between Pac 10 and WAC)
South Carolina 4.4M (Split between SEC and ACC)
South Dakota 800K (Split between Big 12 and Big 10)

This is market share with current numbers:
Big 10 has 65.1 million
Pac 10 has 53.6 million
Big East has 43.8 million
Big 12 has 40.3 million
SEC has 38.1 million
ACC has 35.4 million
Mountain West has 6.9 million
Notre Dame 4.2 million (I know they have more, but I can't account for other states)
WAC has .6 million

Notice which 6 conferences are in the BCS. It's the ones with the biggest market share in TV because they're the largest states. That's why you won't ever see Texas' 21.8 million from the 2000 census count for a Texas-only conference again. They would easily be the 6th largest conference for market share and start to lag behind the other conferences. Those numbers are also why the Big 10 gets the best bowls. The SEC does as well as they do because the bowls are held in their backyard.

[lonny23]

That's not really the reason Houston wasn’t wanted. When the Big XII was formed, they wanted a private school in the conference and it was either Baylor, Rice, TCU or SMU. Look carefully at every major conference and you will notice that they all have at least one private school in there. The Pac 10 has Stanford and USC, the ACC has Duke and Miami, the SEC has Vanderbilt the Big 10 has Northwestern, etc. There is a very good reason for that. It has something to do with the fact that none of the universities have to open their books if there is a private university in the conference. That is why these private schools are in these conferences to begin with and that is why they aren’t going anywhere. That is also the reason Houston never really stood a chance to get in the Big XII.
I can't deny that the rules state that if they have a private school in there, but I've never read that as a reason why Baylor was included. Vandy has always been a SEC liability. Texas and Texas A&M had both been looking at other conferences (Pac 10 and Big 10) and even Houston had talked to the SEC. It all came down to a metting of the politicians in state government and where they graduated from. It was Bob Buloock and some other guys who brokered the deal. The Baylor guy forced his way into the conference with the UT and A&M guys.

I just don't have all my stuff with me right now to give you the names.

[FootballJunkie]

Hahaha... that has to kill you that Nebraska beat Michigan and that Mizzou beat South Carolina. Two Big-12 North teams that you claimed were pathetic all year.

Clemson can pretty much "Thank God" that Colorado was playing without their starting QB are they would of beaten Clemson. Everyone knows that !!

Clemson was lucky to beat Tx A&M by 1 pt in Clemson no less. That says it all to me.

The real fact is this... The Big-12 from top to bottom is a better football conference then the ACC.

Yea right dude...Clemson ran all over Colorado for 385 yards while only giving up 124 to the Big 12 north "champions". The ACC head to head against the Big 12 is 3-1 now that is a real fact for you!!!

Bowl 2005 as of Dec 31
ACC 4-2
Big 12 4-2
Pac 10 3-1
Big 10 0-3
Big East 0-2
SEC 1-1

[Texasfrog]

Yea right dude...Clemson ran all over Colorado for 385 yards while only giving up 124 to the Big 12 north "champions". The ACC head to head against the Big 12 is 3-1 now that is a real fact for you!!!

Bowl 2005 as of Dec 31
ACC 4-2
Big 12 4-2
Pac 10 3-1
Big 10 0-3
Big East 0-2
SEC 1-1

Ya, like I said. You can think God that Colorado was playing without their starting QB are they would of beaten Clemson. Everyone know it and is even saying it. That's the only thing saving Clemson from getting beat.

Clemson big 1 pt win over a weak Tx A&M team (at Clemson). Nuff said huh.

Colorado going to Miami in like week 3 and losing to Miami (in Miami) by 20 pts. I thought maybe that was impressive until I saw what Miami did to the mighty "over-rated" Va tech in Blacksburg, Va 27-7.

You can by the "over-rated" hype that existed most of the year but the truth is coming out now. ACC is and was overrated all year.

You can carry on with all that wishful thinking but trust me that's all it is "Wishful thinking.

Like I've told you all season. The Big-12 is a pretty stout football conference and some of those Big-12 (North) teams are pretty legit and scrappy.

What happened to Miami and Ga TEch ??? They looked pathetic and stupid in their bowl games. The two biggest blowouts all bowl season so far.

Before you claim Utah is some great team that beat Ga Tech. Remember that TCU beat Utah and TCU just had a heck of a time beating Iowa St.

Iowa St would beat Ga Tech. They have a better overall offense and better defense.

[FootballJunkie]

Ya, like I said. You can think God that Colorado was playing without their starting QB are they would of beaten Clemson. Everyone know it and is even saying it. That's the only thing saving Clemson from getting beat.

Clemson big 1 pt win over a weak Tx A&M team (at Clemson). Nuff said huh.

Colorado going to Miami in like week 3 and losing to Miami (in Miami) by 20 pts. I thought maybe that was impressive until I saw what Miami did to the mighty "over-rated" Va tech in Blacksburg, Va 27-7.

You can by the "over-rated" hype that existed most of the year but the truth is coming out now. ACC is and was overrated all year.

You can carry on with all that wishful thinking but trust me that's all it is "Wishful thinking.

Like I've told you all season. The Big-12 is a pretty stout football conference and some of those Big-12 (North) teams are pretty legit and scrappy.

What happened to Miami and Ga TEch ??? They looked pathetic and stupid in their bowl games. The two biggest blowouts all bowl season so far.

Before you claim Utah is some great team that beat Ga Tech. Remember that TCU beat Utah and TCU just had a heck of a time beating Iowa St.

Iowa St would beat Ga Tech. They have a better overall offense and better defense.


Iowa St could do this or might do that...but they loss just as Ga Tech and Miami did. ACC 4-2 and Big 12 4-2 both with 2 games left. ACC 3-1 AGAINST Big 12!!! That would be head to head.
Going by your logic then..If Oregon would have had their starting QB they would have pounded OU but they didn't. So lets see since Clemson and Miami beat the best team in the Big 12 North that would mean that they are both better than every team up there.

[lonny23]

Ya, like I said. You can think God that Colorado was playing without their starting QB are they would of beaten Clemson. Everyone know it and is even saying it. That's the only thing saving Clemson from getting beat.

Clemson big 1 pt win over a weak Tx A&M team (at Clemson). Nuff said huh.

Colorado going to Miami in like week 3 and losing to Miami (in Miami) by 20 pts. I thought maybe that was impressive until I saw what Miami did to the mighty "over-rated" Va tech in Blacksburg, Va 27-7.

You can by the "over-rated" hype that existed most of the year but the truth is coming out now. ACC is and was overrated all year.

You can carry on with all that wishful thinking but trust me that's all it is "Wishful thinking.

Like I've told you all season. The Big-12 is a pretty stout football conference and some of those Big-12 (North) teams are pretty legit and scrappy.

What happened to Miami and Ga TEch ??? They looked pathetic and stupid in their bowl games. The two biggest blowouts all bowl season so far.

Before you claim Utah is some great team that beat Ga Tech. Remember that TCU beat Utah and TCU just had a heck of a time beating Iowa St.

Iowa St would beat Ga Tech. They have a better overall offense and better defense.
Frog,

The Big 12 is better than the ACC.

[FootballJunkie]

Frog,

The Big 12 is better than the ACC.
YOUR opinion... 3-1 head to head says they are not.:D

[lonny23]

YOUR opinion... 3-1 head to head says they are not.:D
Oh, come off of it. You know good and well you can't say 3-1 proves the ACC was better because they never played comparable teams from the Big 12. You won because you had better teams playing lesser teams from the Big 12.

Miami is going to beat Colorado every time. A&M sure isn't going to beat a lot of ACC teams. They already said Clemson was playing a 3rd string QB.

[lonny23]

Oh, come off of it. You know good and well you can't say 3-1 proves the ACC was better because they never played comparable teams from the Big 12. You won because you had better teams playing lesser teams from the Big 12.

Miami is going to beat Colorado every time. A&M sure isn't going to beat a lot of ACC teams. They already said Clemson was playing a 3rd string QB.
That 4-2 ACC record is about to take a hit. The Big 12 is going 6-2.

[FootballJunkie]

That 4-2 ACC record is about to take a hit. The Big 12 is going 6-2.

You mean the Big 12 will go 4-4 TT loses to Alabama and UT loses to USC...be prepared;)

[lonny23]

You mean the Big 12 will go 4-4 TT loses to Alabama and UT loses to USC...be prepared;)
Tech will NOT lose. I'm more sure about that than a UT win.

[FootballJunkie]

Tech will NOT lose. I'm more sure about that than a UT win.

By 2 or 3 tomorrow the results will be in and Alabama will have a W.;)

[lonny23]

By 2 or 3 tomorrow the results will be in and Alabama will have a W.;)
TEXAS
TECH
24-13

[Firebird]

Baylor also made it in, because, if you looked at the schools at the time they were invited into the Big 12, Baylor had far and away the best program. Under Grant Teaff, Baylor was a respectable program, and frequently beat the big boy public schools, including UT. People forget that too often. Up until they joined the Big 12, they regularly put together bowl caliber seasons, something TCU did not do.

Had TCU joined the Big 12, they would have suffered the same fate as Baylor as the lone private school, and Baylor would probably have fared very well in whatever conference they joined. Getting left out of the Big 12 actually helped TCU's program, as they got the chance to build a program against less brutal competition.

When the Big 12 formed, Houston, SMU, and Rice all had JOKES of football programs, and TCU seemed to be on the way down. Baylor was competitive in the SWC at the time, there was really no question about which school was going to be invited with Tech, A&M, and UT. A&M was actually almost the odd one out, as they were prepared to sign a deal with the SEC before Bob Bullock basically bullied and bribed them into the Big 12. UT did talk some to the Pac-10, but it was never a really serious deal. Believe it or not, the Big 12 has TECH to thank for its formation. At the time, the state legislature was pretty much a Texas Tech alumni club, especially in the power positions. The Tech backers didn't want to see Tech get left out in the cold, and pretty much whupped everyone into shape by persuasively explaining the benefits of the Big 12 to UT and A&M. Although I like the Big 12, and it has been kind to Texas Collegiate athletics, I still shed a tear for the old SWC now and then.

[FootballJunkie]

Baylor also made it in, because, if you looked at the schools at the time they were invited into the Big 12, Baylor had far and away the best program. Under Grant Teaff, Baylor was a respectable program, and frequently beat the big boy public schools, including UT. People forget that too often. Up until they joined the Big 12, they regularly put together bowl caliber seasons, something TCU did not do.

Had TCU joined the Big 12, they would have suffered the same fate as Baylor as the lone private school, and Baylor would probably have fared very well in whatever conference they joined. Getting left out of the Big 12 actually helped TCU's program, as they got the chance to build a program against less brutal competition.

When the Big 12 formed, Houston, SMU, and Rice all had JOKES of football programs, and TCU seemed to be on the way down. Baylor was competitive in the SWC at the time, there was really no question about which school was going to be invited with Tech, A&M, and UT. A&M was actually almost the odd one out, as they were prepared to sign a deal with the SEC before Bob Bullock basically bullied and bribed them into the Big 12. UT did talk some to the Pac-10, but it was never a really serious deal. Believe it or not, the Big 12 has TECH to thank for its formation. At the time, the state legislature was pretty much a Texas Tech alumni club, especially in the power positions. The Tech backers didn't want to see Tech get left out in the cold, and pretty much whupped everyone into shape by persuasively explaining the benefits of the Big 12 to UT and A&M. Although I like the Big 12, and it has been kind to Texas Collegiate athletics, I still shed a tear for the old SWC now and then.

Why would you shed a tear for the old SWC??? The Big 8 owned the middle of the country with Nebraska and Oklahoma getting all the press and victories and playing for all the Championships. The SWC was a joke and used to get the crap kicked out of them year in and year out in the Cotton Bowl which the SWC Champion had an automatic bid to. From 1980 until 1995 the SWC champion only won 5 games in the Cotton Bowl. The SWC is also the only conference to have a team undergo the "Death Penalty" for cheating. What a legacy.

[warbird00]

By 2 or 3 tomorrow the results will be in and Alabama will have a W.;)

Bama is a great team and while I am a Big 12 fan overall, that defense would pose big problems for just about anyone. But Junkie, you keep bringing up Colorado as the "north rep" well they were barely that, coming off a big loss to Nebraksa, they were certainly NOT the best team in the Big XII North and you know it. Nebraska suffered through a QB injury right in the middle of conference play, and Iowa State took on a Kansas team that was playing very well at the end of the season, which kept them out of the championship game. Both those two teams beat Clemson easily; NU beat a higher ranked Michigan team. You're right in saying this is a down year for the North teams, but to answer someone else's question, they have nothing to prove. Until this year, the North easily compeated with most of the south teams, with Colorado, K-State and Nebraska. If you want to compare history, I'll put Nebraska's against any team in the ACC. Then add to that the tradition of OU and Texas and some of the other teams, and their is only one other conference that can compare top to bottom: the Big 10.

[farmerfan]

Bama is a great team and while I am a Big 12 fan overall, that defense would pose big problems for just about anyone. But Junkie, you keep bringing up Colorado as the "north rep" well they were barely that, coming off a big loss to Nebraksa, they were certainly NOT the best team in the Big XII North and you know it. Nebraska suffered through a QB injury right in the middle of conference play, and Iowa State took on a Kansas team that was playing very well at the end of the season, which kept them out of the championship game. Both those two teams beat Clemson easily; NU beat a higher ranked Michigan team. You're right in saying this is a down year for the North teams, but to answer someone else's question, they have nothing to prove. Until this year, the North easily compeated with most of the south teams, with Colorado, K-State and Nebraska. If you want to compare history, I'll put Nebraska's against any team in the ACC. Then add to that the tradition of OU and Texas and some of the other teams, and their is only one other conference that can compare top to bottom: the Big 10.


Top to bottom the SEC blows the Big 12 out of the water. Both currently and tradiotionaly.
As far as the Nebraska/Michigan game is concerned you are right when you say Nebraska defeated a higher ranked Michigan team, however they did it with tons of help from the officiating crew. That crew had no business calling that game. The calls they missed and they missed a lot all seemed to hurt Michigan more than Nebraska. If they dont miss half those calls then Michigan wins.
Junkie was also addressing the point of how frog said Colorado would have beat Clemson had they had their starting QB playing. Well I agree with Junkie, if frog is going to say that about Colorado why wont he say it about Oregon?

[FootballJunkie]

Baylor also made it in, because, if you looked at the schools at the time they were invited into the Big 12, Baylor had far and away the best program. Under Grant Teaff, Baylor was a respectable program, and frequently beat the big boy public schools, including UT. People forget that too often. Up until they joined the Big 12, they regularly put together bowl caliber seasons, something TCU did not do.

Had TCU joined the Big 12, they would have suffered the same fate as Baylor as the lone private school, and Baylor would probably have fared very well in whatever conference they joined. Getting left out of the Big 12 actually helped TCU's program, as they got the chance to build a program against less brutal competition.

When the Big 12 formed, Houston, SMU, and Rice all had JOKES of football programs, and TCU seemed to be on the way down. Baylor was competitive in the SWC at the time, there was really no question about which school was going to be invited with Tech, A&M, and UT. A&M was actually almost the odd one out, as they were prepared to sign a deal with the SEC before Bob Bullock basically bullied and bribed them into the Big 12. UT did talk some to the Pac-10, but it was never a really serious deal. Believe it or not, the Big 12 has TECH to thank for its formation. At the time, the state legislature was pretty much a Texas Tech alumni club, especially in the power positions. The Tech backers didn't want to see Tech get left out in the cold, and pretty much whupped everyone into shape by persuasively explaining the benefits of the Big 12 to UT and A&M. Although I like the Big 12, and it has been kind to Texas Collegiate athletics, I still shed a tear for the old SWC now and then.


If you want to talk about history son you better ask Tom Osbourne how many times he brought an undefeated and #1 ranked Nebraska team to the Orange Bowl and got that hind end kicked by FSU or Miami. Lets think back ...if not for FSU and Miami kicking their butt how many NC's do you think Nebraska would have had??? As for the Big 8 I said I did not like them I did not say I did not respect them. The most die-hard fan will say if not for Nebraska and OU there would not have been a Big 8 adding the SWC conference teams helped the old SWC more than the Old Big 8 because the Big 8 teams continued to dominate all the way to the present!! Winning all but 2 of the Big XII championships until this year.

[FootballJunkie]

Just for Arguments sake Texas Tech just lost to Alabama in the Cotton Bowl:p Texas Tech's so called high powered offense was not evident today but that Alabama defense was all over the place.;)

[lonny23]

That's not really the reason Houston wasn’t wanted. When the Big XII was formed, they wanted a private school in the conference and it was either Baylor, Rice, TCU or SMU. Look carefully at every major conference and you will notice that they all have at least one private school in there. The Pac 10 has Stanford and USC, the ACC has Duke and Miami, the SEC has Vanderbilt the Big 10 has Northwestern, etc. There is a very good reason for that. It has something to do with the fact that none of the universities have to open their books if there is a private university in the conference. That is why these private schools are in these conferences to begin with and that is why they aren’t going anywhere. That is also the reason Houston never really stood a chance to get in the Big XII.
OK, I said I had some names and here they are. David Sibley was a Republican State Senator from Waco and a Baylor grad on the Senate Finance Committee. He cornered Texas Chancellor Cunningham and read between the lines that UT and A&M were looking to leave the conference. He started talking to other other politicians about their plans. Ann Richards and Bob Bullock were Baylor grads and Governor and Lieutenant Governor at the time. John Montford, Pres. Pro Tempore of the Senate; Ribert Junnell, destined to be Chairman of the House Appropriations Committee; and Pete Laney, Speaker of the House were all Tech grads. Sibley threatened to cut UT and A&M funding if they bolted on their own. Bullock called a bunch of people to his office and basically strong-armed UT and A&M into going with Tech and Baylor or not at all. The Big Eight voted to take all 4 teams a few days later. The politicians didn't care about the 4 metro schools and those schools didn't have allies to go to war to keep the other 4 from leaving.