Arlington Worker told to remove flag

[drgnbkr]

What's next?

http://cbs11tv.com/local/patriotism.at.office.2.1020415.html

[Miss Kitty]

WOW!! Just wow. I would not even know how to react.

[15Adragon]

It is hard to see how someone finds the flag offensive.

[pied]

Having been on the other side, many times employees don't tell the full story. The flag at 3 feet by 5 feet might seem a bit large, but it's a situation I am glad I have not found myself in.

[Favpack]

McLucas said the supervisor who complained has been in the United States for 14 years and is formerly from Africa. McLucas said the supervisor took down Debbie's flag herself.

"The flag and the pole had been placed on the floor," McLucas said. But McLucas also said hospital higher ups had told her some patients' families and visitors had also complained.


One would hope the Mansfield hospital gets a lot of publicity over this - let's hope.

[pied]

Also, the place is not in Arlington, but Mansfield. It wouldn't happen in Arlington.

[chhspantherfan]

:mad:

and Pied, come on Man. What could you possibly be thinking? This is an assault on the quality of life that you enjoy. Why the heck do you think that tool has been here for 14 years.:rolleyes:

[pied]

:mad:

and Pied, come on Man. What could you possibly be thinking? This is an assault on the quality of life that you enjoy. Why the heck do you think that tool has been here for 14 years.:rolleyes:

Huh? Not certain I follow.

[drgnbkr]

Huh? Not certain I follow.

If he didn't like our country, hence our symbol, the flag, he'd leave..right? One would think so anyway. In many countries it is a capital offense to disparage the flag..in ours some seem to disparage it openly..very troubling.

[chhspantherfan]

Huh? Not certain I follow.


Having been on the other side, many times employees don't tell the full story........... .


why would this mother and wife of Patriots tell anything but the facts in this instance. not sure I follow now?

[pied]

If he didn't like our country, hence our symbol, the flag, he'd leave..right? One would think so anyway. In many countries it is a capital offense to disparage the flag..in ours some seem to disparage it openly..very troubling.

I am not debating that, although there is likely some questions there, I am only talking to the situation. Having had many employees throughout the years, many times things aren't exactly as they claimed. I know many offices have rules regarding what you can have as decorations. Recalling many hopsitals that I have visited, I don't remember seeing many decorations, much less 3x5 foot flags.

It is very possible, this has nothing to do with what was displayed, that's my only point, and the fact I am not involved at all.

[drgnbkr]

Also, the place is not in Arlington, but Mansfield. It wouldn't happen in Arlington.

I don't care if it is in Muleshoe..it shouldn't happen this way in America. We've all read of neighborhoods not allowing the flag to be flown, Berkley, Ca forcing the fire department to remove the flag from their trucks...Where does this end and do we get to have a say in it?

[pied]

why would this mother and wife of Patriots tell anything but the facts in this instance. not sure I follow now?

Is that a joke?

[chhspantherfan]

If he didn't like our country, hence our symbol, the flag, he'd leave..right? One would think so anyway. In many countries it is a capital offense to disparage the flag..in ours some seem to disparage it openly..very troubling.

think it refers to Supv. as a woman, which in itself is innocous until you consider that her heroes might be ..........

[drgnbkr]

think it refers to Supv. as a woman, which in itself is innocous until you consider that her heroes might be ..........

I call gender irrelevancy!:D If it was offensive to the supervisor, tough *****! If it was a size matter, someone should have mentioned it. If it was a policy matter, someone should step up and explain. As the story reads, "it was offensive".:eek:

[15Adragon]

I am not debating that, although there is likely some questions there, I am only talking to the situation. Having had many employees throughout the years, many times things aren't exactly as they claimed. I know many offices have rules regarding what you can have as decorations. Recalling many hopsitals that I have visited, I don't remember seeing many decorations, much less 3x5 foot flags.

It is very possible, this has nothing to do with what was displayed, that's my only point, and the fact I am not involved at all.

This lady lives for her country 7x24. She has put all she has on the line and someone took her flag down and laid it on the floor... wow.. get some perspective.

[drgnbkr]

I think we have gotten to the point where the inmates are running the asylum....We can't have prayer at school because a pitiful few object, we are told we can't fly our flag, which so many have died to protect, and we have our glorious leader making apology tours overseas, telling the world what a rotten place America is...Something's got to give.

[chhspantherfan]

Is that a joke?

what do you mean?

[JagFan]

I think we have gotten to the point where the inmates are running the asylum....We can't have prayer at school because a pitiful few object, we are told we can't fly our flag, which so many have died to protect, and we have our glorious leader making apology tours overseas, telling the world what a rotten place America is...Something's got to give.

We have the the majority having to cater to the minority. Sad indeed.

[pied]

what do you mean?

I thought you might be joking. Are you serious that you don't think it's possible that the lady might not tell the entire story simply because her huband and kids are in the military?

[Favpack]

So, you're working at a hospital in Darfur as an administrator - you go up to the guy patrolling the halls in camo, carrying a rifle (shipped direct from China) to please put it down - he bashes you over the head with it, drags you out back and shoots you.

[chhspantherfan]

I thought you might be joking. Are you serious that you don't htink it's possible that the lady might not tell the entire story simply because her huband and kids are in the military?

sure it is possible. Not probable and Olbermannian not to trust her.

[chhspantherfan]

So, you're working at a hospital in Darfur as an administrator - you go up to the guy patrolling the halls in camo, carrying a rifle (shipped direct from China) to please put it down - he bashes you over the head with it, drags you out back and shoots you.

Or you tell him that you find his flag hanging behind his desk offensive.:rolleyes:

[drgnbkr]

Our flag is a sacred symbol of our country and should be protected at all costs and respected by citizens without question. Just my humble opinion.

[Maroondog]

I've said it a thousand times, we've become the United States of the Offended.

I guess I'd have been fired on the spot because the ensuing fight would probably have been against company policy.

When it comes the the point that you cannot display the Stars and Stripes in this country, we are in the deepest doo doo imaginable.

[Fleeman93]

If I were the lady I would object to anything and everything the other supervisor wears, says, or does as offensive. Any comment the man made I would twist as sexual harassment. Hey some people just find some things offensive right?

[drgnbkr]

Our flag is a sacred symbol of our country and should be protected at all costs and respected by citizens without question. Just my humble opinion.

I'll follow-up my own thought with this: We try so hard to teach our children to respect the flag and our culture and then it gets even harder when something like this happens.

[DrEdward]

Exactly what are they objecting to? Would they object as well to a smaller flag displayed on her desk? If not, suppose that same desk-sized flag were displayed where she placed the much larger version? As it currently stands, the hospital and the supervisor in question appear to be stupid.

[JagFan]

Exactly what are they objecting to? Would they object as well to a smaller flag displayed on the her desk? If not, suppose that same desk-sized flag were displayed where she placed the much larger version? As it currently stands, the hospital and the supervisor in question appear to be stupid.

:notworthy

[slorch]

If he didn't like our country, hence our symbol, the flag, he'd leave..right? One would think so anyway. In many countries it is a capital offense to disparage the flag..in ours some seem to disparage it openly..very troubling.

I am proud that we live in a country that allows for political dissent. It is healthy and necessary for a successful society, IMO.

I would find it more troubling if they were not allowed to disparage it.

That being said, mental note filed in Slorch's head of the idiots slamming our country. It bleeds into other areas...;):D

[pied]

Exactly what are they objecting to? Would they object as well to a smaller flag displayed on the her desk? If not, suppose that same desk-sized flag were displayed where she placed the much larger version? As it currently stands, the hospital and the supervisor in question appear to be stupid.

very good question that we do not know the answer to. ard to see how a 3x5 foot flag on a pole would be able to fit on a desk though.

[slorch]

I'll follow-up my own thought with this: We try so hard to teach our children to respect the flag and our culture and then it gets even harder when something like this happens.

respect what the flag represents. It's just like being a Christian, IMO. They can take my Bible. they can supposedly take away public prayer. Guess what, they cannot destroy the fact that I can pray constantly or worship when I choose, Bible in hand or not.

America will still be America with or without that flag in the room. My question is, "What are you doing that let's people know you love America?"

[pied]

respect what the flag represents. It's just like being a Christian, IMO. They can take my Bible. they can supposedly take away public prayer. Guess what, they cannot destroy the fact that I can pray constantly or worship when I choose, Bible in hand or not.

America will still be America with or without that flag in the room. My question is, "What are you doing that let's people know you love America?"

Kind of like, let my actions speak louder than my words, or I don't wear my faith/patriotism on my t-shirt.

[DrEdward]

very good question that we do not know the answer to. ard to see how a 3x5 foot flag on a pole would be able to fit on a desk though.

Hence, the use of the adjective "smaller." :D

[slorch]

Kind of like, let my actions speak louder than my words, or I don't wear my faith/patriotism on my t-shirt.

exactly.

[stevefoxsc]

if you think thats bad look at European current muso issue.

Over there if anything you do offends anyone of middle eastern origin you have to abide by it.


heres a good example

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/3773/muso.jpg

[dragonpants]

I am proud that we live in a country that allows for political dissent. It is healthy and necessary for a successful society, IMO.

I would find it more troubling if they were not allowed to disparage it.

That being said, mental note filed in Slorch's head of the idiots slamming our country. It bleeds into other areas...;):D

Ok here I go. I am proud to live in a country where we can have political dissent and will fight for your right to free speech regardless of how offensive I find the crap you are spewing. However, the flag is a symbol of our country and should be allowed to be flown anywhere that is practical. I could understand if the size of the flag was prohibiting people from doing their job but if you find it offensive too bad deal with it or move somewhere else. I think we all know this was not an issue of size. The complaint was that it was offensive not that it was too big. If I shared and office with someone had they had something hanging or whatever it is, I would not say it was offensive, I would say it is too friggin big and a pain in the a$$.
If you worked in London and a co worker had the Union Jack on their desk would you find it offensive?

[Firebird]

Ok here I go. I am proud to live in a country where we can have political dissent and will fight for your right to free speech regardless of how offensive I find the crap you are spewing. However, the flag is a symbol of our country and should be allowed to be flown anywhere that is practical. I could understand if the size of the flag was prohibiting people from doing their job but if you find it offensive too bad deal with it or move somewhere else. I think we all know this was not an issue of size. The complaint was that it was offensive not that it was too big. If I shared and office with someone had they had something hanging or whatever it is, I would not say it was offensive, I would say it is too friggin big and a pain in the a$$.
If you worked in London and a co worker had the Union Jack on their desk would you find it offensive?


So the owners of a piece of property have no say in the matter if someone wants to put a flag up?

[Matthew 2000 Eagle]

She should've waited til she caught the b!tch on the streets, off of the clock, and tossed her @$$ like a salad! And after giving her the biz, she should've shoved the flag, uhh, wait. Nevermind!

Sorry for the rant folks! I've been on the edge the last few days!

[pied]

Not trying to be the Anti_american here, but I am still trying to reconcile the person who brngs in a 3x5 foot flag on a flag pole into an office shared with three other people. I know it sounds crazy, but there may be some back story to this, or some history with the other workers, or something else that she is not fully telling. It very well may not, but I have seen people do some pretty crazy things at the workplace.

[slorch]

Ok here I go. I am proud to live in a country where we can have political dissent and will fight for your right to free speech regardless of how offensive I find the crap you are spewing. However, the flag is a symbol of our country and should be allowed to be flown anywhere that is practical. I could understand if the size of the flag was prohibiting people from doing their job but if you find it offensive too bad deal with it or move somewhere else. I think we all know this was not an issue of size. The complaint was that it was offensive not that it was too big. If I shared and office with someone had they had something hanging or whatever it is, I would not say it was offensive, I would say it is too friggin big and a pain in the a$$.
If you worked in London and a co worker had the Union Jack on their desk would you find it offensive?

would you say the flag is more important than our actions?

I am not spewing anything other than the very fiber this country was founded upon.

Love it or leave it...;):D

[slorch]

Not trying to be the Anti_american here, but I am still trying to reconcile the person who brngs in a 3x5 foot flag on a flag pole into an office shared with three other people. I know it sounds crazy, but there may be some back story to this, or some history with the other workers, or something else that she is not fully telling. It very well may not, but I have seen people do some pretty crazy things at the workplace.

I'm picturing a bunch of PC crap being thrown in the "offender's" direction. They countered with being absurd.

It will force the conversation, that's for sure.

[drgnbkr]

Not trying to be the Anti_american here, but I am still trying to reconcile the person who brngs in a 3x5 foot flag on a flag pole into an office shared with three other people. I know it sounds crazy, but there may be some back story to this, or some history with the other workers, or something else that she is not fully telling. It very well may not, but I have seen people do some pretty crazy things at the workplace.

If a military mom flying a US flag around memorial day is crazy, color me a nut also.

[RedRage00]

Not trying to be the Anti_american here, but I am still trying to reconcile the person who brngs in a 3x5 foot flag on a flag pole into an office shared with three other people. I know it sounds crazy, but there may be some back story to this, or some history with the other workers, or something else that she is not fully telling. It very well may not, but I have seen people do some pretty crazy things at the workplace.

The flag was on a pole? I thought it was hanging on the wall?

[15Adragon]

This makes me want to put a 50 ft flag pole in my yard. ;)

[RedRage00]

This makes me want to put a 50 ft flag pole in my yard. ;)

Will your HOA approve? That is if you have one. :)

[dragonpants]

would you say the flag is more important than our actions?

I am not spewing anything other than the very fiber this country was founded upon.

Love it or leave it...;):D

I was speaking in general about spewing had nothing to do with you personally. The flag is a symbol of our country and our actions are a representation of ourselves.

[pied]

The flag was on a pole? I thought it was hanging on the wall?

From the article.

"The flag and the pole had been placed on the floor," McLucas said. But McLucas also said hospital higher-ups had told her some patients' families and visitors had also complained.


************************************************** ********UPDATE*************************
from the artilcle.

Wednesday morning, however, our story received nationwide attention. We have received dozens of emails and comments from people who had something to say about it. And a receptionist at Kindred's headquarters told us they received many phone calls.

Then, late Wednesday morning, Kindred posted on its website a statement about the incident. It reads, in part: "The disagreement was over the size of the flag and not what it symbolized. We have invited the employee to put the flag back up."

We're contacting McLucas for her take on what Kindred said. We'll have that part of the story later today on CBS11TV.com.

[15Adragon]

Will your HOA approve? That is if you have one. :)

I will have to move the 20 foot dragon out of the way first. (just kidding) ;)

No HOA. If I did have one, well, they would have to get over it.

[svhorns]

We should outlaw supervisors.

[15Adragon]

From the article.

"The flag and the pole had been placed on the floor," McLucas said. But McLucas also said hospital higher-ups had told her some patients' families and visitors had also complained.


************************************************** ********UPDATE************************************ *****************
from the artilcle.

Give it up. The flag is a very emotional topic. Nobody wants to know what the definition of is is.

[slorch]

I was speaking in general about spewing had nothing to do with you personally. The flag is a symbol of our country and our actions are a representation of ourselves.

thought you were addressing my earlier post.

agree with the second sentence.

[pied]

Press Release from Kindred

Kindred Hospital Mansfield has a great deal of appreciation for the service that many of our employees and their families have given to their country. We honor our veterans and active military through a variety of benefits and service programs. This was an isolated incident between two employees that we are working to resolve amicably. Both employees have family members who have served in the military. The disagreement was over the size of the flag and not what it symbolized. We have invited the employee to put the flag back up. We share their love of country and we appreciate the service of their family members as well as all members of the armed forces.

http://www.kindredhealthcare.com/Press/2009-05-27.asp

[slorch]

We should outlaw supervisors.

I agree. i would like to address apathy, nonpunctuality, and dereliction of duty by employees first...;):D

[RedRage00]

From the article.

"The flag and the pole had been placed on the floor," McLucas said. But McLucas also said hospital higher-ups had told her some patients' families and visitors had also complained.


************************************************** ********UPDATE*************************
from the artilcle.

Well, if that's the case then I can see their point in asking her to take it down.

When you're sharing a space with 2 other people and you have this big flag on a pole getting in your way of doing your job then I can see a reason to complain. We don't know how big the area is they were working at. The article stated it was the size of the flag that was being complained about.

Why would other people besides the supervisor complain? There's more to the story than what she is revealing. Like maybe it was so big it was getting in the way of people trying to pass through.

I have my own office. I can put up a 3x5 flag if I want to. It won't bother anyone else because its MY own office :)

[dragonpants]

So the owners of a piece of property have no say in the matter if someone wants to put a flag up?

The owners of the building can have a policy against things hanging on the wall. If there is a policy against hanging things on walls then that employee would be in violation but that is not what happened. Companies try to use words like tasteful, well my version of tasteful and yours can be quite different. If a company says you can hang family pictures on the wall and you hang a picture of your daughter giving oral to her boyfriend is that allowed? You do not find it offensive so what is the problem.
A flag is totally different. It is a symbol of the country that you live in. It was not a foreign flag, not a swastika and she put it up in honor of a national holiday that is about people that have protected our rights to bit.h about a flag. Did the offended person come to work on the national holiday as I am sure they were offended by the very celebration of our fallen and missing heroes.

[pied]

Give it up. The flag is a very emotional topic. Nobody wants to know what the definition of is is.

Give what up. My only point, is that this might have nothing or very little to do with the flag and more to do with the people involved.

[RedRage00]

The owners of the building can have a policy against things hanging on the wall. If there is a policy against hanging things on walls then that employee would be in violation but that is not what happened. Companies try to use words like tasteful, well my version of tasteful and yours can be quite different. If a company says you can hang family pictures on the wall and you hang a picture of your daughter giving oral to her boyfriend is that allowed? You do not find it offensive so what is the problem.
A flag is totally different. It is a symbol of the country that you live in. It was not a foreign flag, not a swastika and she put it up in honor of a national holiday that is about people that have protected our rights to bit.h about a flag. Did the offended person come to work on the national holiday as I am sure they were offended by the very celebration of our fallen and missing heroes.


I'm sure they'd have a policy against porn as well. :)

[pied]

The owners of the building can have a policy against things hanging on the wall. If there is a policy against hanging things on walls then that employee would be in violation but that is not what happened. Companies try to use words like tasteful, well my version of tasteful and yours can be quite different. If a company says you can hang family pictures on the wall and you hang a picture of your daughter giving oral to her boyfriend is that allowed? You do not find it offensive so what is the problem.
A flag is totally different. It is a symbol of the country that you live in. It was not a foreign flag, not a swastika and she put it up in honor of a national holiday that is about people that have protected our rights to bit.h about a flag. Did the offended person come to work on the national holiday as I am sure they were offended by the very celebration of our fallen and missing heroes.


Perhaps you missed this part:

Both employees have family members who have served in the military.

[pied]

Well, if that's the case then I can see their point in asking her to take it down.

When you're sharing a space with 2 other people and you have this big flag on a pole getting in your way of doing your job then I can see a reason to complain. We don't know how big the area is they were working at. The article stated it was the size of the flag that was being complained about.

Why would other people besides the supervisor complain? There's more to the story than what she is revealing. Like maybe it was so big it was getting in the way of people trying to pass through.

I have my own office. I can put up a 3x5 flag if I want to. It won't bother anyone else because its MY own office :)

It was actually 3 other people. You hate America.

[slorch]

The owners of the building can have a policy against things hanging on the wall. If there is a policy against hanging things on walls then that employee would be in violation but that is not what happened. Companies try to use words like tasteful, well my version of tasteful and yours can be quite different. If a company says you can hang family pictures on the wall and you hang a picture of your daughter giving oral to her boyfriend is that allowed? You do not find it offensive so what is the problem.
A flag is totally different. It is a symbol of the country that you live in. It was not a foreign flag, not a swastika and she put it up in honor of a national holiday that is about people that have protected our rights to bit.h about a flag. Did the offended person come to work on the national holiday as I am sure they were offended by the very celebration of our fallen and missing heroes.

yup. At our building, NOTHING goes on a wall or in writing or display without ME putting it there. It saves a TON of hurt feelings and POed employees.

I have even asked people to tape over offensive bumper stickers.( That was a fun one...:rolleyes:)

Even if it is music being played on a jambox in the warehouse, if everyone cannot agree on the music/ or talkshow, it is turned off.

The UT fans have asked me to take down the Texas Tech stuff in my office, but they haven't won that plot yet...:D

[Firebird]

The owners of the building can have a policy against things hanging on the wall. If there is a policy against hanging things on walls then that employee would be in violation but that is not what happened. Companies try to use words like tasteful, well my version of tasteful and yours can be quite different. If a company says you can hang family pictures on the wall and you hang a picture of your daughter giving oral to her boyfriend is that allowed? You do not find it offensive so what is the problem.
A flag is totally different. It is a symbol of the country that you live in. It was not a foreign flag, not a swastika and she put it up in honor of a national holiday that is about people that have protected our rights to bit.h about a flag. Did the offended person come to work on the national holiday as I am sure they were offended by the very celebration of our fallen and missing heroes.

Actually...it is the owner of the building and/or his representative that gets to determine "tasteful" or not. And if we allow huge flags in the office, it's going to be difficult to argue against allowing a huge flag of any other nation in the office.

Bottom line, she is an employee and the boss/owner can ban American flags all he wants too...it is a free country,after all.;)

[15Adragon]

Actually...it is the owner of the building and/or his representative that gets to determine "tasteful" or not. And if we allow huge flags in the office, it's going to be difficult to argue against allowing a huge flag of any other nation in the office.

Bottom line, she is an employee and the boss/owner can ban American flags all he wants too...it is a free country,after all.;)


What is this the sheep telling the sheep dogs how and where they can hang it? :eek:

I guess I'm glad we have the sheep to keep us straight on such matters otherwise us dogs would just chew it up. ;)

[dragonpants]

I'm sure they'd have a policy against porn as well. :)

Define Porn.

See where I am going.

[pied]

Define Porn.

See where I am going.

Anything not company related.

[Firebird]

What is this the sheep telling the sheep dogs how and where they can hang it? :eek:

I guess I'm glad we have the sheep to keep us straight on such matters otherwise us dogs would just chew it up. ;)

At work, the only sheep dog is the man who cuts the paycheck.

[Firebird]

Define Porn.

See where I am going.

The man who owns the building and/or his representative.:)

[slorch]

At work, the only sheep dog is the man who cuts the paycheck.

until a lawsuit is filed...:D:cool:

[Miss Kitty]

At my company, they would have said the flag pole could be a safety hazzard and that would be the reason given to take it down. ;)

[Miss Kitty]

Well she won and now she can put her flag back up. It seems the hospital was flooded with phone calls. So the "news" said the hospital changed it's story from it being an "offensive" issue to a "size" issue and told her she could have it back up.

[chhspantherfan]

QUESTION


The pole is approx 2" in diameter and 7' tall, the base is 12" in diameter and conical to a 3" blunt nose with an opening measuring 2.125". The 3' x 5' flag is at rest in an approx 6" x 6" x 6.5' rectangle.

The office is 15' x 15' x 9', what is the ratio of area that the flag consumes in relation to the room volume?

[pied]

Well she won and now she can put her flag back up. It seems the hospital was flooded with phone calls. So the "news" said the hospital changed it's story from it being an "offensive" issue to a "size" issue and told her she could have it back up.

The hospital's has not changed it's story.

[b756561]

Actually...it is the owner of the building and/or his representative that gets to determine "tasteful" or not.

Bottom line, she is an employee and the boss/owner can ban American flags all he wants too...it is a free country,after all.;)

Damn, I didn't think I would agree with Firebird, but I guess I have to in this situation. While I don't like the idea that someone might ban the AMERICAN flag, I do agree the employer has the right to do so within the confines of his establishment. If the employee doesn't like the policy (and I don't) then they can always find another job where the company policy is different.
http://smiliesftw.com/x/walamabanana.gif

[pied]

Damn, I didn't think I would agree with Firebird, but I guess I have to in this situation. While I don't like the idea that someone might ban the AMERICAN flag, I do agree the employer has the right to do so within the confines of his establishment. If the employee doesn't like the policy (and I don't) then they can always find another job where the company policy is different.


I don't know that it's all that clear cut. What we know is that the employee's story does not match the company's. We know that the employee went to the press and caused quite a bit of negative publicity for the company. The only thing the company said is that it is a dipuste between two employees and that it was about size and not what the flag represented.

[b756561]

I don't know that it's all that clear cut. What we know is that the employee's story does not match the company's. We know that the employee went to the press and caused quite a bit of negative publicity for the company. The only thing the company said is that it is a dipuste between two employees and that it was about size and not what the flag represented.
Whatever the situation may end up being, Firebird is correct when he said;


Originally Posted by Firebird http://www.5atexasfootball.com/forum/vB/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.5atexasfootball.com/forum/vB/showthread.php?p=1198870#post1198870)
Actually...it is the owner of the building and/or his representative that gets to determine "tasteful" or not.
Bottom line, she is an employee and the boss/owner can ban American flags all he wants too...it is a free country,after all.;)
http://smiliesftw.com/x/walamabanana.gif

[Firebird]

I don't know that it's all that clear cut. What we know is that the employee's story does not match the company's. We know that the employee went to the press and caused quite a bit of negative publicity for the company. The only thing the company said is that it is a dipuste between two employees and that it was about size and not what the flag represented.

Mine is a hypothetical. My point is that if there was a business or property owner that wanted to ban the display of the U.S. flag by his employees while at work, he's well within his rights to do so. And everyone else is well within their rights to refuse to patronize him.:)

I do think that the hospital case is not exactly over the display of the flag, but rather over large displays in general.

[drgnbkr]

The point is not whether the hospital can deny the display of our flag..it is the reasoning behind the denial.

"The flag and the pole had been placed on the floor," McLucas said. But McLucas also said hospital higher-ups had told her some patients' families and visitors had also complained.


"When McLucas came to work Friday, her boss told her another supervisor had found her flag offensive."

The people cited in the story did not mention the size, only that our flag was offensive. And yes, the hospital management did change their story after the enormous amount of heat they received...



"Then, late Wednesday morning, Kindred posted on its website a statement about the incident. It reads, in part: "The disagreement was over the size of the flag and not what it symbolized. We have invited the employee to put the flag back up."

[pied]

Mine is a hypothetical. My point is that if there was a business or property owner that wanted to ban the display of the U.S. flag by his employees while at work, he's well within his rights to do so. And everyone else is well within their rights to refuse to patronize him.:)

I do think that the hospital case is not exactly over the display of the flag, but rather over large displays in general.

Mine is based on my experience. Employees complain about the craziest things and only report their side and don't see another. There is always two sides. My experience also tells me that going past the chain of command is typically not a good move long term, much less bypassing it and going to channel 11.

[pied]

The point is not whether the hospital can deny the display of our flag..it is the reasoning behind the denial.

"The flag and the pole had been placed on the floor," McLucas said. But McLucas also said hospital higher-ups had told her some patients' families and visitors had also complained.


"When McLucas came to work Friday, her boss told her another supervisor had found her flag offensive."

The people cited in the story did not mention the size, only that our flag was offensive. And yes, the hospital management did change their story after the enormous amount of heat they received...



"Then, late Wednesday morning, Kindred posted on its website a statement about the incident. It reads, in part: "The disagreement was over the size of the flag and not what it symbolized. We have invited the employee to put the flag back up."


Where is the hospital's first story? Perhaps I have missed it.


drgnbkr eats children.

Are you going to change your story now?

[Firebird]

The point is not whether the hospital can deny the display of our flag..it is the reasoning behind the denial.
"The flag and the pole had been placed on the floor," McLucas said. But McLucas also said hospital higher-ups had told her some patients' families and visitors had also complained.


"When McLucas came to work Friday, her boss told her another supervisor had found her flag offensive."

The people cited in the story did not mention the size, only that our flag was offensive. And yes, the hospital management did change their story after the enormous amount of heat they received...



"Then, late Wednesday morning, Kindred posted on its website a statement about the incident. It reads, in part: "The disagreement was over the size of the flag and not what it symbolized. We have invited the employee to put the flag back up."

A business owner can have any reason he wants....

See your thread about the home bible study. You start telling people what and why they can or cannot do something on their own property,and there is where it leads...
:)

[drgnbkr]

Mine is based on my experience. Employees complain about the craziest things and only report their side and don't see another. There is always two sides. My experience also tells me that going past the chain of command is typically not a good move long term, much less bypassing it and going to channel 11.

Any of us who have worked in an office would also know that if another employee took down our American Flag and put it on the floor, as happened in this case, we would be steamed...The company did not send out a memo, leave an e-mail or communicate policy in any way..another supervisor took it, and put on the floor..how would you react?

[Firebird]

Mine is based on my experience. Employees complain about the craziest things and only report their side and don't see another. There is always two sides. My experience also tells me that going past the chain of command is typically not a good move long term, much less bypassing it and going to channel 11.

I agree with you on this one, having supervised employees at several places. Instructions and rationales get twisted as they work their way down the chain of command, and quite often employees think they understand a boss' reasoning when in fact they have no idea. And my experience is that the type of person who is going to the TV station/threatening to call the paper over some dispute at work is quite frequently the most clueless of them all.

[Firebird]

Any of us who have worked in an office would also know that if another employee took down our American Flag and put it on the floor, as happened in this case, we would be steamed...The company did not send out a memo, leave an e-mail or communicate policy in any way..another supervisor took it, and put on the floor..how would you react?

That is the story we are hearing from the offended employee....

[b756561]

[quote=Firebird;1199294]Mine is a hypothetical. My point is that if there was a business or property owner that wanted to ban the display of the U.S. flag by his employees while at work, he's well within his rights to do so. And everyone else is well within their rights to refuse to patronize him.:)

Well said, very good point.:notworthy
http://smiliesftw.com/x/walamabanana.gif

[slcdragonfan]

question


the pole is approx 2" in diameter and 7' tall, the base is 12" in diameter and conical to a 3" blunt nose with an opening measuring 2.125". The 3' x 5' flag is at rest in an approx 6" x 6" x 6.5' rectangle.

The office is 15' x 15' x 9', what is the ratio of area that the flag consumes in relation to the room volume?

you're a math teacher!!!!!

[RedRage00]

I don't know that it's all that clear cut. What we know is that the employee's story does not match the company's. We know that the employee went to the press and caused quite a bit of negative publicity for the company. The only thing the company said is that it is a dipuste between two employees and that it was about size and not what the flag represented.

You forget that some of the posters in here are just thinking that someone is disrespecting the American flag because she complained about it. I hate America because I think she's lying about what really happened with the flag. People in here see the flag being taken down and they get all up in arms when they don't even know the whole story. No one in here does.

People are forgetting that it wasn't only just ONE person, but it was even patients and other people so someone is lying. Why would more than one person complain if its just a flag on a pole? She's not telling the whole truth.

Personally, I don't mind a flag in the office as long as its not getting in the way of me doing my job. Who brings a huge flag like that into the office anyway?

[drgnbkr]

You forget that some of the posters in here are just thinking that someone is disrespecting the American flag because she complained about it. I hate America because I think she's lying about what really happened with the flag. People in here see the flag being taken down and they get all up in arms when they don't even know the whole story. No one in here does.

People are forgetting that it wasn't only just ONE person, but it was even patients and other people so someone is lying. Why would more than one person complain if its just a flag on a pole? She's not telling the whole truth.

Personally, I don't mind a flag in the office as long as its not getting in the way of me doing my job. Who brings a huge flag like that into the office anyway?

A lady with a total military background in this case..with a daughter serving in Iraq. Would you have had a problem with the flag?
The story is pretty well sorted out now that a few days have passed. The hospital caved to some who thought the flag was "offensive" not too big. They felt the heat, backed off and allowed the flag back...The question that should be asked is...who in America is offended by our flag?

[pied]

A lady with a total military background in this case..with a daughter serving in Iraq. Would you have had a problem with the flag?
The story is pretty well sorted out now that a few days have passed. The hospital caved to some who thought the flag was "offensive" not too big. They felt the heat, backed off and allowed the flag back...The question that should be asked is...who in America is offended by our flag?

How was that sorted out?

[drgnbkr]

How was that sorted out?

All you have to do is follow the story..it's easy

[RedRage00]

A lady with a total military background in this case..with a daughter serving in Iraq. Would you have had a problem with the flag?
The story is pretty well sorted out now that a few days have passed. The hospital caved to some who thought the flag was "offensive" not too big. They felt the heat, backed off and allowed the flag back...The question that should be asked is...who in America is offended by our flag?

I wouldn't have a problem with someone bringing a flag to work if it wasn't getting in the way of me doing my job. I believe there is more to the story. Like I said before, more than one person complained. Even patients complained. Why would that many people complain if its just a flag on a pole?

They backed off because the paper only reported one side of the story and they were flooded with calls from people thinking they were anti-American.

[mad_fan]

I wouldn't have a problem with someone bringing a flag to work if it wasn't getting in the way of me doing my job. I believe there is more to the story. Like I said before, more than one person complained. Even patients complained. Why would that many people complain if its just a flag on a pole?

They backed off because the paper only reported one side of the story and they were flooded with calls from people thinking they were anti-American.

Unlike this forum...:Music

[mad_fan]

You forget that some of the posters in here are just thinking that someone is disrespecting the American flag because she complained about it. I hate America because I think she's lying about what really happened with the flag. People in here see the flag being taken down and they get all up in arms when they don't even know the whole story. No one in here does.

People are forgetting that it wasn't only just ONE person, but it was even patients and other people so someone is lying. Why would more than one person complain if its just a flag on a pole? She's not telling the whole truth.

Personally, I don't mind a flag in the office as long as its not getting in the way of me doing my job. Who brings a huge flag like that into the office anyway?

3 X 5 = HUGE???
As flags go...that's small...
You must be easily satisfied...:D

[BDB]

From the article.
"The flag and the pole had been placed on the floor," McLucas said. But McLucas also said hospital higher-ups had told her some patients' families and visitors had also complained.

************************************************** ********UPDATE*************************
from the artilcle.

the flag was too big.... that seems to be the reason it was taken down. i'm pretty sure if she tried covering the room in an american flag tarp, this would have happened as well, but if she had a flag that sat on her desk out of the way it would have stayed up.


the funny thing is that the company had to cave-in to this lady because she broke protocol and went to the media instead of riding the ladder.


oh wait... i'm just un-american :rolleyes:

[drgnbkr]

the flag was too big.... that seems to be the reason it was taken down. i'm pretty sure if she tried covering the room in an american flag tarp, this would have happened as well, but if she had a flag that sat on her desk out of the way it would have stayed up.


the funny thing is that the company had to cave-in to this lady because she broke protocol and went to the media instead of riding the ladder.


oh wait... i'm just un-American, :rolleyes:

You're not Un-American, no one thinks that...but, no one has said the flag was too big, other than on here...they have all said that the flag was "offensive", which is my whole point. Who would think an American Flag was offensive? In America!

[Firebird]

You're not Un-American, no one thinks that...but, no one has said the flag was too big, other than on here...they have all said that the flag was "offensive", which is my whole point. Who would think an American Flag was offensive? In America!

Except for the employer in their official statement on the matter...

[drgnbkr]

Except for the employer in their official statement on the matter...

After they received all of the heat, after initially claiming that another supervisor found it offensive...I concede that it is a story in the paper and we don't have all of the facts. I am trying to expand on the central issue, which is that it appears someone found the flag offensive. Balance this discussion with the "remember Memorial Day" thread. It is just a discussion, not a crime scene investigation or a trial.

[BDB]

You're not Un-American, no one thinks that...but, no one has said the flag was too big, other than on here...they have all said that the flag was "offensive", which is my whole point. Who would think an American Flag was offensive? In America!

dude... no one originaly said it wasn't too big, just that was offensive. finally when the company made the statement, it turns out it was the size of the flag that is offensive.

if i want to have a beach ball on the floor of an office i share with 3 people because it reminds me of the beach and someone complains that it's gettin in the way, it's comin down. the same with a flag, regardless of what the flag is.

[pied]

You're not Un-American, no one thinks that...but, no one has said the flag was too big, other than on here...they have all said that the flag was "offensive", which is my whole point. Who would think an American Flag was offensive? In America!

They meaning what the employee who went to the media related that they said.

[BDB]

After they received all of the heat, after initially claiming that another supervisor found it offensive...I concede that it is a story in the paper and we don't have all of the facts. I am trying to expand on the central issue, which is that it appears someone found the flag offensive. Balance this discussion with the "remember Memorial Day" thread. It is just a discussion, not a crime scene investigation or a trial.

yes... the actual flag.... the cloth that takes up space in a business office. not what it symbolizes.

[pied]

After they received all of the heat, after initially claiming that another supervisor found it offensive...I concede that it is a story in the paper and we don't have all of the facts. I am trying to expand on the central issue, which is that it appears someone found the flag offensive. Balance this discussion with the "remember Memorial Day" thread. It is just a discussion, not a crime scene investigation or a trial.

I agree that it's hard to imagine that someone would find the flag offensive. Especially when the person apparently immigraetd here and has had family in the military.

[drgnbkr]

They meaning what the employee who went to the media related that they said.

No, the lady who put up the flag said another supervisor took it down saying it was offensive. Then the hospital was quoted as saying others found it offensive...none mentioning that it was too large, until after the heat rolled in on the management, and they came out with the size issue.

[pied]

No, the lady who put up the flag said another supervisor took it down saying it was offensive. Then the hospital was quoted as saying others found it offensive...none mentioning that it was too large, until after the heat rolled in on the management, and they came out with the size issue.


Where is that quote from management?

[pied]

I'll help you out a bit.

When McLucas came to work Friday, her boss told her another supervisor had found her flag offensive. "I was just totally speechless. I was like, 'You're kidding me,'" McLucas said.

McLucas' husband and sons are former military men. Her daughter is currently serving in Iraq as a combat medic.

Stifling a cry, McLucas said, "I just wonder if all those young men and women over there are really doing this for nothing."

McLucas said the supervisor who complained has been in the United States for 14 years and is formerly from Africa. McLucas said that supervisor took down the flag herself.

"The flag and the pole had been placed on the floor," McLucas said. But McLucas also said hospital higher-ups had told her some patients' families and visitors had also complained.

[drgnbkr]

I'll help you out a bit.

So what part troubles you? Do any mention the size?

[BDB]

So what part troubles you? Do any mention the size?

do any say the symbolization of the flag offends them? it works bothways, homie.

[pied]

So what part troubles you? Do any mention the size?

Nope, and none is from management, all from her.

[RedRage00]

Unlike this forum...:Music

Ugh, If smokers can go out to smoke for a few minutes then I can jump onto 5A :Music

[RedRage00]

3 X 5 = HUGE???
As flags go...that's small...
You must be easily satisfied...:D

You're a freak lol

[Firebird]

So what part troubles you? Do any mention the size?

The fact that the entire story is based on hearsay from the lips of the offended party, and that her statements are in contradiction to the employer's. There is no quotation from management in the original story, only second hand quotes from the woman herself. I see no way to independently verify the accuracy of either statement based on what the intergoogle can provide, but it does appear to me that the woman wrapping herself in the flag is spotted several points right off the bat....

[drgnbkr]

The fact that the entire story is based on hearsay from the lips of the offended party, and that her statements are in contradiction to the employer's. There is no quotation from management in the original story, only second hand quotes from the woman herself. I see no way to independently verify the accuracy of either statement based on what the intergoogle can provide, but it does appear to me that the woman wrapping herself in the flag is spotted several points right off the bat....

I would sure hope so....

[Firebird]

I would sure hope so....

Why....are people who bring flags in the office more trustworthy than those that don't.

The whole thing to me smells of disgruntled help and a petty quarrel between coworkers that had been building for ages. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the flag was a delibarate attempt to inflame someone who had objected to displays before.

Employees lie all the time. The ones that are most self-righteous about their cause lie the worst.

[BDB]

I would sure hope so....

wrapping yourself in a flag to get followers... i've seen this before...

http://truereligiondebate.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/screen-clip-hitler-w-paraclete2.jpg

wrapping yourself in a flag to win an argument is more fascist then "nobama" could ever dream to be.

[drgnbkr]

Why....are people who bring flags in the office more trustworthy than those that don't.

The whole thing to me smells of disgruntled help and a petty quarrel between coworkers that had been building for ages. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the flag was a delibarate attempt to inflame someone who had objected to displays before.

Employees lie all the time. The ones that are most self-righteous about their cause lie the worst.

People who are "offended" by our flag don't really rate compared to those who wrap themselves in it. That is the America I grew up in.

[RedRage00]

People who are "offended" by our flag don't really rate compared to those who wrap themselves in it. That is the America I grew up in.

You still don't understand. The lady ran to the paper and she told them that they were offended by her flag. That was her side of the story. Hearsay. She said they were offended so should we automatically believe her just because she wraps herself around the American flag?

When the newspaper contacted the hospital, they said it was the size of the flag that was the problem, not what it symbolized. I could probably believe this since more than one person complained. Patients and visitors complained. I find it hard to believe that there are that many people walking around the hospital that hate America and the flag.

Then after so many people like yourself failing to see the big picture and just thinking the hospital and the other supervisors are un american begin to call and protest in front of the hospital causing them to cave in and let her bring her flag back.

[Miss Kitty]

If it was the size that was, in fact, the issue. Couldn't this all have been avoided by simply asking her to bring in a smaller flag to replace that one? To my knowledge, that has never been addressed by either party. If it was a size issue, I would think that would have been not only brought up to the lady as an alternative but also stated in their own defense. "we offered to allow her to bring in a smaller flag" type thing. In fact, if the size was truly the issue, that would have been the resolution even after the media got a hold of them. But since they "caved" to the pressure, I am thinking they did not have that as the true problem in their foremost thoughts. As well, if she was truly breaking a policy, there would have been not caving necessary because policy would have been upheld and hid behind.

I don't think it was a matter of an un-American hospital, but a hospital who had been wussified because of the crazy sue happy society we have become. Everyone wins, nobody can get their feelings hurt, so if I say I am offended I can get my way because I can sue if I don't, type crap.

[drgnbkr]

You still don't understand. The lady ran to the paper and she told them that they were offended by her flag. That was her side of the story. Hearsay. She said they were offended so should we automatically believe her just because she wraps herself around the American flag?

When the newspaper contacted the hospital, they said it was the size of the flag that was the problem, not what it symbolized. I could probably believe this since more than one person complained. Patients and visitors complained. I find it hard to believe that there are that many people walking around the hospital that hate America and the flag.

Then after so many people like yourself failing to see the big picture and just thinking the hospital and the other supervisors are un american begin to call and protest in front of the hospital causing them to cave in and let her bring her flag back.

As I said earlier, this, like most stories of this type, is not a criminal investigation, it promotes conversation about the substance, not whether so and so are guilty of anything. If you choose to see it that it is a disgruntled worker, which there is no hint of anywhere, so be it. I am just pointing out that I am frustrated that the flag is treated the way that it is.

[Miss Kitty]

You still don't understand. The lady ran to the paper and she told them that they were offended by her flag. That was her side of the story. Hearsay. She said they were offended so should we automatically believe her just because she wraps herself around the American flag?

When the newspaper contacted the hospital, they said it was the size of the flag that was the problem, not what it symbolized. I could probably believe this since more than one person complained. Patients and visitors complained. I find it hard to believe that there are that many people walking around the hospital that hate America and the flag.

Then after so many people like yourself failing to see the big picture and just thinking the hospital and the other supervisors are un american begin to call and protest in front of the hospital causing them to cave in and let her bring her flag back.

"Patients and visitors complained" is also only one side of the story. That is what the hospital said, not the lady. And how do we know size was what they complained as that was not even mentioned until today. On the TV this morning they stated, "the hospital has now changed their story and are stating the problem was with the size of the flag". This leads me to believe there was another story from the hospital that perhaps we do not know about either.

[Firebird]

If it was the size that was, in fact, the issue. Couldn't this all have been avoided by simply asking her to bring in a smaller flag to replace that one? To my knowledge, that has never been addressed by either party. If it was a size issue, I would think that would have been not only brought up to the lady as an alternative but also stated in their own defense. "we offered to allow her to bring in a smaller flag" type thing. In fact, if the size was truly the issue, that would have been the resolution even after the media got a hold of them. But since they "caved" to the pressure, I am thinking they did not have that as the true problem in their foremost thoughts. As well, if she was truly breaking a policy, there would have been not caving necessary because policy would have been upheld and hid behind.

I don't think it was a matter of an un-American hospital, but a hospital who had been wussified because of the crazy sue happy society we have become. Everyone wins, nobody can get their feelings hurt, so if I say I am offended I can get my way because I can sue if I don't, type crap.

IMHO, the smart money is that this lady and at least one of her co-workers/supervisors have longstanding issues with each other and this brought it to a head. I see an immediate supervisor with a giant headache because he has subordinates who cannot settle their disputes like grownups, and wanting to fire all of them so he never has to see them again. I see the hospital's PR firm trying to find a decent way out of an inter-office spat that escalated when one party took to the airwaves.

The lady's immediate story is so full of stuff that makes you scratch your head. Her response to this issue was to run to channel 11 with a gripe, talk about her patriotism and her family, point fingers at a foreigner, and offer up second hand quotes about people being "offended" by the American flag. You could not write a better script to mobilize a certain set of very vocal people in this country.

[Firebird]

"Patients and visitors complained" is also only one side of the story. That is what the hospital said, not the lady. And how do we know size was what they complained as that was not even mentioned until today. On the TV this morning they stated, "the hospital has now changed their story and are stating the problem was with the size of the flag". This leads me to believe there was another story from the hospital that perhaps we do not know about either.

No, that is what the lady said the hospital said. We have no quotes from the hospital spokesman on this issue. The only statement from them says that it was an interoffice dispute over the size of the flag.

[drgnbkr]

IMHO, the smart money is that this lady and at least one of her co-workers/supervisors have longstanding issues with each other and this brought it to a head. I see an immediate supervisor with a giant headache because he has subordinates who cannot settle their disputes like grownups, and wanting to fire all of them so he never has to see them again. I see the hospital's PR firm trying to find a decent way out of an inter-office spat that escalated when one party took to the airwaves.

The lady's immediate story is so full of stuff that makes you scratch your head. Her response to this issue was to run to channel 11 with a gripe, talk about her patriotism and her family, point fingers at a foreigner, and offer up second hand quotes about people being "offended" by the American flag. You could not write a better script to mobilize a certain set of very vocal people in this country.

Thank God she did "run to Channel 11" as you put it. Thank God there are still some of us left who care. Thank her daughter for her service, as well as the rest of her family.

[Firebird]

Thank God she did "run to Channel 11" as you put it. Thank God there are still some of us left who care. Thank her daughter for her service, as well as the rest of her family.

If she isn't telling the full truth, why should I be thankful? If she's not telling the truth she's just a charlatan.

Right now, all we know for sure is that she got upset and went to the TV station. We know that her employer disputes some of her facts. We have no way of knowing whether we should believe her or the employer, except for the fact that one of them is waving a flag, and apparentley that is enough for some people.

[Firebird]

As I said earlier, this, like most stories of this type, is not a criminal investigation, it promotes conversation about the substance, not whether so and so are guilty of anything. If you choose to see it that it is a disgruntled worker, which there is no hint of anywhere, so be it. I am just pointing out that I am frustrated that the flag is treated the way that it is.

Actually, I think it reveals our own biases. For instance, your bias in favor of believing anyone who claims patriotism, and mine in favor of believing an employer over an employee that runs to a TV station over an office dispute.

[drgnbkr]

If she isn't telling the full truth, why should I be thankful? If she's not telling the truth she's just a charlatan.

Right now, all we know for sure is that she got upset and went to the TV station. We know that her employer disputes some of her facts. We have no way of knowing whether we should believe her or the employer, except for the fact that one of them is waving a flag, and apparentley that is enough for some people.

Sorry bud..BS! No one is waving a flag and you know it. (but if anyone has a right to it would be her) There is far more information that folks were offended by the flag, but hey, it's only a conversation on a football web-site and we all get to have our opinion! Is this a great country or what?

[JagFan]

We do not know the whole story and to say that the management is completely wrong or the employee is completely wrong is just well wrong. There is always at least two sides of the story.

Yes, she should be able to have a flag in her office if she chooses, however if she shares that office then her personal things should not interfere with the other occupants of the office. Maybe a separation of the parties involved would work.

As an employer I would be tempted to fire everyone involved. She should have taken to management first. First rule of working for someone. Try to solve the issues in house first and always with management present. If she did and that did not get results then the news.

[drgnbkr]

Actually, I think it reveals our own biases. For instance, your bias in favor of believing anyone who claims patriotism, and mine in favor of believing an employer over an employee that runs to a TV station over an office dispute.

You really need to look back through your posts if you want to throw the bias word out there. You, for some reason assume, that a major hospital, who suddenly finds itself in a serious PR mess, comes up with an after action report that doesn't jive with the bulk of the story, is more believable. If that is your opinion, fine, we all get to form our own. Once again, we are not in a court of law with sworn witnesses, we are in the court of public opinion, and I do not like yours. I do choose to have a bias toward respecting our flag and our country, something that did not require a debate in the past.

[pied]

IMHO, the smart money is that this lady and at least one of her co-workers/supervisors have longstanding issues with each other and this brought it to a head. I see an immediate supervisor with a giant headache because he has subordinates who cannot settle their disputes like grownups, and wanting to fire all of them so he never has to see them again. I see the hospital's PR firm trying to find a decent way out of an inter-office spat that escalated when one party took to the airwaves.

The lady's immediate story is so full of stuff that makes you scratch your head. Her response to this issue was to run to channel 11 with a gripe, talk about her patriotism and her family, point fingers at a foreigner, and offer up second hand quotes about people being "offended" by the American flag. You could not write a better script to mobilize a certain set of very vocal people in this country.


Just for reference, this was my post first thing yesterday morning.

Having been on the other side, many times employees don't tell the full story. The flag at 3 feet by 5 feet might seem a bit large, but it's a situation I am glad I have not found myself in.

[pied]

Sorry bud..BS! No one is waving a flag and you know it. (but if anyone has a right to it would be her) There is far more information that folks were offended by the flag, but hey, it's only a conversation on a football web-site and we all get to have our opinion! Is this a great country or what?

How do you come to that conclusion?

[drgnbkr]

How do you come to that conclusion?

Again, it's easy..follow the story.

[pied]

Again, it's easy..follow the story.

I did. Have you ever worked at a company with a lot of people?

[drgnbkr]

I did. Have you ever worked at a company with a lot of people?

Yes I have, and I have never worked anywhere that anyone would have objected to a flag, or knew of anyone who would have supported same. That distinction is reserved for you and bird...

[pied]

Yes I have, and I have never worked anywhere that anyone would have objected to a flag, or knew of anyone who would have supported same. That distinction is reserved for you and bird...

You are putting words in my mouth, so to speak.

Did everyone at that place get along or from time to time were there disputes among the people there?

[drgnbkr]

You are putting words in my mouth, so to speak.

Did everyone at that place get along or from time to time were there disputes among the people there?

That place? I have worked for companies large and small and owned several business and while there were fights, arguments, terminations, etc. I never knew of anyone who would ask for an American Flag to be removed. Call me old fashioned, or just call me old, but it is still my opinion that anyone who is offended by the flag should move on.

[pied]

That place? I have worked for companies large and small and owned several business and while there were fights, arguments, terminations, etc. I never knew of anyone who would ask for an American Flag to be removed. Call me old fashioned, or just call me old, but it is still my opinion that anyone who is offended by the flag should move on.

During any of those disagreements did any of the participants have differing views of the situation?

[drgnbkr]

During any of those disagreements did any of the participants have differing views of the situation?

What are you a prosecutor? Take a position or take a seat!:p

[RedRage00]

How do you come to that conclusion?

The comment that people were offended by the flag came from the woman's mouth. The hospital released a statement saying otherwise. Like Firebird stated, as long as she's waving the flag she can pretty much say whatever she wants and people will believe her.

[mad_fan]

This kinda stuff is exactly why red-blooded (read REAL) Americans need to be able to carry a firearm in the workplace...

[drgnbkr]

This kinda stuff is exactly why red-blooded (read REAL) Americans need to be able to carry a firearm in the workplace...

:D or on the board!:p

[Firebird]

We do not know the whole story and to say that the management is completely wrong or the employee is completely wrong is just well wrong. There is always at least two sides of the story.

Yes, she should be able to have a flag in her office if she chooses, however if she shares that office then her personal things should not interfere with the other occupants of the office. Maybe a separation of the parties involved would work.

As an employer I would be tempted to fire everyone involved. She should have taken to management first. First rule of working for someone. Try to solve the issues in house first and always with management present. If she did and that did not get results then the news.


I agree one hundred percent especially with the first sentance of the last paragraph. This whole thing smells of two co-workers who hate each other's guts. I've been in offices like that and it isn't fun.

[chhspantherfan]

you're a math teacher!!!!!

funny, how no one has given an answer;)

[RedRage00]

funny, how no one has given an answer;)

Because we all know where the flag was placed in the room. :rolleyes:

You act like it was a big empty room with just a flag in it. Do you know the placement of the office furniture,etc? Maybe she moved someone elses things to put her flag up? Like JagFan said, she shares that space with 3 other people. Her belongings shouldn't interfere with others. I bet she wouldn't have had that problem had she had her own office space.

[DrEdward]

Let's just buy her one of these for her desk:

http://ep.yimg.com/ip/I/united-states-flag_2055_121291516 (http://www.united-states-flag.com/arfordesset.html)

If the hospital or anyone else complains about this, then there are decidedly other issues involved.

[BDB]

lol.....this really is great.


so i'm supposed to take the side of the person who broke protocol to get her 1 side of the story across, and throw out any information that the company has released about the issue, all while not hearing from the "african immigrant" america-hater, or any of the other co-workers who shared the office?


good thing i'm not allowed to carry a gun at all times... i might do something irrational :laugh

[the_phoenix612]

wrapping yourself in a flag to get followers... i've seen this before...

http://truereligiondebate.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/screen-clip-hitler-w-paraclete2.jpg

wrapping yourself in a flag to win an argument is more fascist then "nobama" could ever dream to be.

Oh no he didn't!

[BDB]

Let's just buy her one of these for her desk:

http://ep.yimg.com/ip/I/united-states-flag_2055_121291516 (http://www.united-states-flag.com/arfordesset.html)

If the hospital or anyone else complains about this, then there are decidedly other issues involved.

THANK YOU! doc, even when i've disagreed with you on issues, you still make sense to me.

[Firebird]

Was anyone else reminded of this...

http://www.jumpcut.com/view/?id=F24906CA790011DCB25C000423CF3686

[pied]

Remember the offended party has relatives who have served as well.

[BDB]

Oh no he didn't!

RUH ROH SCOOBY-DOO!

welcome back, dirty liberal hippie america hater.

[the_phoenix612]

RUH ROH SCOOBY-DOO!

welcome back, dirty liberal hippie america hater.

its good to be back, socialist, corrupting, foreign-looking fatty. :D

[pied]

its good to be back, socialist, corrupting, foreign-looking fatty. :D

We've been praying for you. Welcome back.

[chhspantherfan]

Because we all know where the flag was placed in the room. :rolleyes:

You act like it was a big empty room with just a flag in it. Do you know the placement of the office furniture,etc? Maybe she moved someone elses things to put her flag up? Like JagFan said, she shares that space with 3 other people. Her belongings shouldn't interfere with others. I bet she wouldn't have had that problem had she had her own office space.

and where was that?

[chhspantherfan]

Doesn't say, does it RR?

The presumption on seemingly most people's part is that is was hung on the wall. It doesn't say that. It could have been hung from the ceiling, could have been hung over the door opening, heck it could have even been hung from the flagpole. ;)

[DrEdward]

In any event, it would appear that Kindred has realized their goof and told her she can put the flag back up.

[RedRage00]

Doesn't say, does it RR?

The presumption on seemingly most people's part is that is was hung on the wall. It doesn't say that. It could have been hung from the ceiling, could have been hung over the door opening, heck it could have even been hung from the flagpole. ;)

It said it was hung, but not where. Anything hanging in an office (that you share with 3 other people) from a pole is going to get in the way. Sorry, but I think thats what the real issue is. I wouldn't have a problem with someone bringing in a flag, but if I have to duck under it every time I move around the office then its going to start getting on my nerves.

[chhspantherfan]

It said it was hung, but not where. Anything hanging in an office (that you share with 3 other people) from a pole is going to get in the way. Sorry, but I think thats what the real issue is. I wouldn't have a problem with someone bringing in a flag, but if I have to duck under it every time I move around the office then its going to start getting on my nerves.


come on now, have you never seen a flag at rest on a pole? Doesn't have to be in the way. You wouldn't have to duck under it. You know the type, on the stage at your elementary school......... Maybe, justy maybe.......?

[RedRage00]

come on now, have you never seen a flag at rest on a pole? Doesn't have to be in the way. You wouldn't have to duck under it. You know the type, on the stage at your elementary school......... Maybe, justy maybe.......?

We don't know how it was hung so we can go back and forth all day long.