Why is Highland Park still 4A?

[ToY]

Read this off wiki It is currently classified as a Conference 4A high school by the University Interscholastic League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_Interscholastic_League). A common joke among Texas school athletic directors is that when the UIL realigns in even numbered years, the 4A-5A cutoff is always defined as "Highland Park plus two." Despite being an exaggeration as of 2008<sup class="plainlinks noprint asof-tag update" style="display: none;">[update] (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Highland_Park_High_School_%28Unive rsity_Park,_Texas%29&action=edit)</sup>, Highland Park remains among the larger 4A schools in Texas. The average class size is 32 students per teacher, with about 500 students in a grade. and a former HP coach is arguing with me that UIL wont let HP go 5a because they dont have a "hardship", and that there's a conspiracy to keep the white boys down.

Anyone have to scoop as to why HP is 4A?

[F18mustang]

Read this off wiki and a former HP coach is arguing with me that UIL wont let HP go 5a because they dont have a "hardship", and that there's a conspiracy to keep the white boys down.

Anyone have to scoop as to why HP is 4A?

So scottie2 can troll this board on a daily basis...

[bowiedawgs01]

Go away, dot.

[F18mustang]

Are you the same ToY that does all the gif/vids for shaggy?

[fballgirl22]

Double Down;)

[ToY]

Are you the same ToY that does all the gif/vids for shaggy?


Yea, that's me. I had an account in 2004, but that was apparently deleted :(

bowiedawgs01 linked me to this article (http://www.hsgametime.com/sharedcontent/dws/content/topstories/stories/012708dnspohsrealignment.2c517b2.html) which explains it pretty well, but I really believe that HP is cooking the numbers to stay 4A (me and a bunch of others at shaggy, actually).

[svhorns]

Yea, that's me. I had an account in 2004, but that was apparently deleted :(

bowiedawgs01 linked me to this article (http://www.hsgametime.com/sharedcontent/dws/content/topstories/stories/012708dnspohsrealignment.2c517b2.html) which explains it pretty well, but I really believe that HP is cooking the numbers to stay 4A (me and a bunch of others at shaggy, actually).

They can request to play up but they choose not too... someone posted a link with a list of schools that are currently under that certain request... I think it was a UIL link... If I find it I'll post it...

[F18mustang]

They can request to play up but they choose not too... someone posted a link with a list of schools that are currently under that certain request... I think it was a UIL link... If I find it I'll post it...

Which is where the "scared" remarks come in.

I know that HP(city) has zero room to grow/annex, but I find it hard to believe that a school of such stature is not 5A. Perhaps it goes back to density and people/per sq mile that reside in HP.

[bowiedawgs01]

Eagle Pass
Eagle Pass Winn
Fort Bend Marshall
Fort Bend Willowridge
Dallas Molina
Strake Jesuit

All those schools have smaller enrollments than HP.

Obviously Jesuit must be 5A.

The rest are all hardship cases. HP is a single school district with no travel hardships. The UIL will not move them to 5A.

[svhorns]

Eagle Pass
Eagle Pass Winn
Fort Bend Marshall
Fort Bend Willowridge
Dallas Molina
Strake Jesuit

All those schools have smaller enrollments than HP.

Obviously Jesuit must be 5A.

The rest are all hardship cases. HP is a single school district with no travel hardships. The UIL will not move them to 5A.

Well that sounds pretty convenient if you ask me.

[bowiedawgs01]

Convenient?

Yeah, ok.

[bowiedawgs01]

And please tell me this. The cutoff isn't determined until all the enrollments are in and the numbers are crunched.

How does HP cook the books to get under a cutoff they don't even know?

[svhorns]

And please tell me this. The cutoff isn't determined until all the enrollments are in and the numbers are crunched.

How does HP cook the books to get under a cutoff they don't even know?

Inside information?

[ToY]

As your article says, the number grows at a steady rate, so its pretty easy to figure out where the cutoff is going to be. Even then, then there's grey area about kids with special ed kids.

[bowiedawgs01]

I didn't post that article.

And the cutoffs go:
+85
+45
+15
+60

Not very predictable.

[RedRage00]

lol @ this entire thread.

[Favpack]

Definitely a hardship on HP - for sure - donations welcomed.

[Firebird]

Why are 4A fans so desparate to get a school that's won only 1 championship in the past 50 years out of the division, and why are we in 5A so desparate to have them?

How many times can this be talked about?

[RedRage00]

Why are 4A fans so desparate to get a school that's won only 1 championship in the past 50 years out of the division, and why are we in 5A so desparate to have them?

How many times can this be talked about?

Grayowl, is that you? :p

[LoboFan07]

They can request to play up but they choose not too... .

The only way you can request up is if you have two or more schools in your ISD, that would create a hardship by being in different classes.

HP doesn't have that.

This whole idea that HP is somehow staying on the 4A level for their own benefit is ridiculous. Always has been. Always will be.

[Bill4par]

TOY....keep HP 4A because in 2 years when Wylie drops down to 4A they will eat HP's lunch. Need to determine how far above 3A numbers is HP right now? Guarenteed, in 2 yrs all of a sudden, there will be a mass exodus out of HP and all of a sudden they will have 3A numbers. Funny how that works.....HP brain trust and tax dollars at work!!

[bowiedawgs01]

TOY....keep HP 4A because in 2 years when Wylie drops down to 4A they will eat HP's lunch. Need to determine how far above 3A numbers is HP right now? Guarenteed, in 2 yrs all of a sudden, there will be a mass exodus out of HP and all of a sudden they will have 3A numbers. Funny how that works.....HP brain trust and tax dollars at work!!


hahaha :notworthy

HP is 12-0 vs. Wylie. Have fun with that.

[The Lone Ranger]

HP cheats with their enrollment numbers just like Jesuit is out there recruiting boys from the ghetto to play for our all-star football program (though we still have 12 more state titles than any UIL football team :D).

For starters, the cutoff is determined by ranking schools and then cutting 5A off after the largest 245 before appeals. So not only would Highland Park need to cook their own numbers, they would also have to cook the numbers of 20+ other schools in the 1900-2100 range to make sure that those schools all fall into place. This is impossible to do, because the numbers are based on the attendance on a single day, and they would have to coordinate this scheme statewide without anyone finding out.

No, the main reason HP continues to be 4A is because they don't have much turnover in their population as a district. Many families have lived there for 50+ years. If you want to move in, you have to be able to pay $1,000,000 or more for a house and then pay property taxes on that house--which is about $25,000 a year, more expensive than any private school in Dallas. You also have to find a family willing to sell to you, which makes it even more difficult if you are a minority family. You can't have live in help, which means even fewer students to attend the school than might be expected in such a district.

Basically, the population of the Park Cities is such as to be perfect for a large 4A school. As 5A schools get bigger, HP will drop lower because the town isn't getting any bigger.

[scottie2]

TOY....keep HP 4A because in 2 years when Wylie drops down to 4A they will eat HP's lunch. Need to determine how far above 3A numbers is HP right now? Guarenteed, in 2 yrs all of a sudden, there will be a mass exodus out of HP and all of a sudden they will have 3A numbers. Funny how that works.....HP brain trust and tax dollars at work!!

Are you kidding me, why don't you check Wylie's won loss record against HP in the last ten games they played each other. Remember Wylie has another high school opening that will dilute the talent.

[scottie2]

HP cheats with their enrollment numbers just like Jesuit is out there recruiting boys from the ghetto to play for our all-star football program (though we still have 12 more state titles than any UIL football team :D).

For starters, the cutoff is determined by ranking schools and then cutting 5A off after the largest 245 before appeals. So not only would Highland Park need to cook their own numbers, they would also have to cook the numbers of 20+ other schools in the 1900-2100 range to make sure that those schools all fall into place. This is impossible to do, because the numbers are based on the attendance on a single day, and they would have to coordinate this scheme statewide without anyone finding out.

No, the main reason HP continues to be 4A is because they don't have much turnover in their population as a district. Many families have lived there for 50+ years. If you want to move in, you have to be able to pay $1,000,000 or more for a house and then pay property taxes on that house--which is about $25,000 a year, more expensive than any private school in Dallas. You also have to find a family willing to sell to you, which makes it even more difficult if you are a minority family. You can't have live in help, which means even fewer students to attend the school than might be expected in such a district.

Basically, the population of the Park Cities is such as to be perfect for a large 4A school. As 5A schools get bigger, HP will drop lower because the town isn't getting any bigger.

Very well said, although there is more moving in and out of the district then you would think. Thiose who want to leave in North Dallas must decide if they would rather invest in private education or invest in real estate. Anyone who thinks we conrol the realignment process is dillusional.

"12 more state tiltles" what does that mean?

[bowiedawgs01]

My friend has come up with a way to make HP 5A again.

There are a few areas that are within HP jurisdiction. HP police and emergency services serve the areas, but the kids there are not allowed to attend HP. Almost all of them go to private schools. Once upon a time, those kids were able to pay to be allowed to go to HP. The city of Dallas is the one that put an end to that.

[Bill4par]

Scottie2...huh? Do you think Wylie's talent pool has stayed the same for 10 years (or 10 games). You need to let go of that flawed rationalization you have going on and understand HP will get steamrolled by Wylie.

[bowiedawgs01]

I'll put my money on HP and Coach Allen.

[NBC_43]

Very well said, although there is more moving in and out of the district then you would think. Thiose who want to leave in North Dallas must decide if they would rather invest in private education or invest in real estate. Anyone who thinks we conrol the realignment process is dillusional.

"12 more state tiltles" what does that mean?


TCIL State Titles

[Bill4par]

Bowiedawgs01.....I have all the respect for Coach Allen. Great man, great coach, great ambassador for HP football, but it ain't gonna happen. At this point in time Wylie football is a hybrid of 5A smashmouth power football in dee and at the skill positions on O kids that can downright fly.

[bowiedawgs01]

So?

What makes you think HP isn't improving as well?

[Bill4par]

'cause no one is moving into HP in droves like Wylie!

[bowiedawgs01]

Y'all will build another school and water down the talent. The HP will have two Wylie schools to dominate.

:D