Judson vs Permian esteem

[33Blood]

Odessa Permian and Converse Judson High Schools both got started in 1959. Both have 6 championships and 11 finals appearances. Permian got there first and has done it over a longer time. Judson didn't really get good until the late 70's and has been on a tear since the 80's. Very similar programs to me. But the average person on the streets knows all about MOJO and rank them as 1 of the all time great programs. So how do you guys rate them.

[fballgirl22]

May sound homer as hell but Odessa Permian/Plano set the bar:notworthy

[mojo4life]

Odessa Permian and Converse Judson High Schools both got started in 1959. Both have 6 championships and 11 finals appearances. Permian got there first and has done it over a longer time. Judson didn't really get good until the late 70's and has been on a tear since the 80's. Very similar programs to me. But the average person on the streets knows all about MOJO and rank them as 1 of the all time great programs. So how do you guys rate them.

Well judson beat us in 95 in a close semi controversial game..but we probably would have beaten them pretty good in 88..I feel like mojo's winning percentage over the years would be what sepperates the two. not to mention weve been in the final 4 like 18 times.with almost all of these records being in a one division format.. also I think that 1980 game against Port Arthur endured people further towards Mojo.( Mojo was a pioneer for texas football not necesarly better; people were striving to be like us not the other way around) ...So that may be why people recognize us more.

[33Blood]

May sound homer as hell but Odessa Permian/Plano set the bar:notworthy

I think I would have to give Waco and maybe Abilene props for the bar setting way back in the 20's. Others may have surpassed them now but Waco going to 6 straight finals is pretty impressive even if there were only 10 high schools at the time.

[Bass]

Well, if Judson wouldn't put all these ******* sound clips on every single page of their booster club's website, I might vote for them.

www.judsonrocketball.com

[KattTx]

May sound homer as hell but Odessa Permian/Plano set the bar:notworthy

This

[E-Vol-ution]

It's MOJO......but we're talking history here. There's a mystique no other school anywhere will likely ever match. All that aside, we'd like to make em a notch in our belt one day............;)

[RedRage00]

Equal

I wish this was a public poll. :rolleyes:

[70uprockets]

Judson went to the State finals in 1988, 1992, 1993, 1995, 1996, 2002, 2005 and 2007. Judson won state in 1988, 1992, 1993 1995 and 2002. What has Permian done since 1988? ENOUGH SAID

[E-Vol-ution]

Truth is....any poll given nationwide, 95% of the people would name Permian and not know who Judson is. That's the honest truth. I knew about Permian, Moeller and Massilon as a kid growing up in NY. Not downing Judson's accomplishments.....but MOJO mystique is nationwide.Judson went to the State finals in 1988, 1992, 1993, 1995, 1996, 2002, 2005 and 2007. Judson won state in 1988, 1992, 1993 1995 and 2002. What has Permian done since 1988? ENOUGH SAID

[RedRage00]

Judson went to the State finals in 1988, 1992, 1993, 1995, 1996, 2002, 2005 and 2007. Judson won state in 1988, 1992, 1993 1995 and 2002. What has Permian done since 1988? ENOUGH SAID

LOL This is going to be good...but I kind of agree. Permian hasn't done anything recently. They live in the past.

[33Blood]

Truth is....any poll given nationwide, 95% of the people would name Permian and not know who Judson is. That's the honest truth. I knew about Permian, Moeller and Massilon as a kid growing up in NY. Not downing Judson's accomplishments.....but MOJO mystique is nationwide.

That has been what I have found over the years with the average person on the street or in the stands. I was curious if die hard football freaks like those of us who kill time on here thought the same. And it pretty much seems to be.

[LoneRocket]

Judson went to the State finals in 1988, 1992, 1993, 1995, 1996, 2002, 2005 and 2007. Judson won state in 1988, 1992, 1993 1995 and 2002. What has Permian done since 1988? ENOUGH SAID

Do not forget 1983

[odessapermian.com]

In my opinion, as a hardcore Texas football fan I don't see any way you cannot say Judson is right up there. If you weren't convinced before, their making the finals a couple years ago, when they really didn't have (on paper) a strong team, speaks volumes.

[LoneRocket]

Well judson beat us in 95 in a close semi controversial game..but we probably would have beaten them pretty good in 88..I feel like mojo's winning percentage over the years would be what sepperates the two. not to mention weve been in the final 4 like 18 times.with almost all of these records being in a one division format.. also I think that 1980 game against Port Arthur endured people further towards Mojo.( Mojo was a pioneer for texas football not necesarly better; people were striving to be like us not the other way around) ...So that may be why people recognize us more.

What was the Semi controversial part of the game? It was a great game and hard fought that was won in the last minutes just like our other games against the LSWC.

[LoneRocket]

LOL This is going to be good...but I kind of agree. Permian hasn't done anything recently. They live in the past.

Our record against the LSWC also speaks for itself.

[E-Vol-ution]

The big question was prestige........something like old money vs. new money, Rockefeller or Gates. Gates may have as much money, but only a Rockefeller can walk in any door by name alone without having to say "I have this".
That has been what I have found over the years with the average person on the street or in the stands. I was curious if die hard football freaks like those of us who kill time on here thought the same. And it pretty much seems to be.

[odessapermian.com]

LOL This is going to be good...but I kind of agree. Permian hasn't done anything recently. They live in the past.

Well, the original post did specify "all time".

[BackNBlack97]

Judson went to the State finals in 1988, 1992, 1993, 1995, 1996, 2002, 2005 and 2007. Judson won state in 1988, 1992, 1993 1995 and 2002. What has Permian done since 1988? ENOUGH SAID

Lets see, in 89 MNC and the last unified 5a Texas state championship... 91 another championship, 95 a finals appearance... There was a bit of a down time but things are picking back up, and guess what! Permian still has the best winning percentage of any 5a team in the state over the last 50 years... There has never been a Permian team that has won less than 3 games, even in their first year of existence... How many times has Judson run the table and had a perfect season? Never... Their only season without a loss included 2 ties... Permian has had 3 perfect state championship seasons...

[odessapermian.com]

The big question was prestige........something like old money vs. new money, Rockefeller or Gates. Gates may have as much money, but only a Rockefeller can walk in any door by name alone without having to say "I have this".

:notworthy

[tjw]

LOL This is going to be good...but I kind of agree. Permian hasn't done anything recently. They live in the past.

Thats not quite true as we knocked them out during Regionals this last year on the way to winning state. ;):D

And they lost to Trinity the year before there too, so two straight years of getting knocked out of the playoffs by the state champs is not too shabby.:)

[LoneRocket]

The big question was prestige........something like old money vs. new money, Rockefeller or Gates. Gates may have as much money, but only a Rockefeller can walk in any door by name alone without having to say "I have this".

I would say Permian would have the prestige because of the book "Friday Night Lights" and also the movie "Friday Night Lights", that is how some people identify with their community. Some young people who watched the movie actually believe that was the 1988 state championship game.

[Exwildcat79]

Thats not quite true as we knocked them out during Regionals this last year on the way to winning state. ;):D

And they lost to Trinity the year before there too, so two straight years of getting knocked out of the playoffs by the state champs is not too shabby.:)

Actually, it has been 3 years straight. SLC beat us in 2006, Trinity in 2007, and yall in 2008. Hopefully, we can get over the hump this year.:D

[E-Vol-ution]

Most people in the country that know hs football knew about MOJO long before the book ever came out, myself included. I would say Permian would have the prestige because of the book "Friday Night Lights" and also the movie "Friday Night Lights", that is how some people identify with their community. Some young people who watched the movie actually believe that was the 1988 state championship game.

[mojo4life]

What was the Semi controversial part of the game?


towards the end of the game when Permian was marching systematically down the field for tie/win Mojo's # 22 was knocked down while running a seam route when he was knocked down the free safety picked it off game over . very easily could have been interference..But calls are apart of the game and that one didn't go are way.Good clean fun game. Every body remembers that play that was at the game,even some of my Judsons friends,but hey that's part of football that's why I said semi controversial and not controversial. none the less 31-28 congrads to Judson

[LoneRocket]

towards the end of the game when Permian was marching systematically down the field for tie/win Mojo's # 22 was knocked down while running a seam route when he was knocked down the free safety picked it off game over . very easily could have been interference..But calls are apart of the game and that one didn't go are way.Good clean fun game. Every body remembers that play that was at the game,even some of my Judsons friends,but hey that's part of football that's why I said semi controversial and not controversial. none the less 31-28 congrads to Judson

I remember that play and my friend from Kermit TX talked about it. I think what happend was the DB was looking at the ball (not the player) and that is why interference was not called. The 1983 state game is posted on youtube against Midland Lee our back had fumbled the ball but the ref thought he was down.

[tjw]

Actually, it has been 3 years straight. SLC beat us in 2006, Trinity in 2007, and yall in 2008. Hopefully, we can get over the hump this year.:D

Knew someone correct me if it was more, either way so much for what have you done for me lately. :D

More like what's it take to get over the hump!;)

Been there, done that, and got over this last year.

[rocketgrl94]

I would say Permian would have the prestige because of the book "Friday Night Lights" and also the movie "Friday Night Lights", that is how some people identify with their community. Some young people who watched the movie actually believe that was the 1988 state championship game.

thank you...people know Mojo cuz of the movie and the book...we dont have anything like that we go by name JUDSON... would Permian be known if it wasnt for those two (TV & book) prolly not....and the movie really pissed me off cuz of that fake @ss 1988 championship game, and 1995 it's done we won great game MOJO....i just loved yellin' "No Mo' MOJO!!" at that game!!:p:D..........i still love ya'll MOJO fans though;)

[NoHate]

First off I respect Judson fans and their football. By I got to think that Permian takes this one. Yes we have a book and movie which spreads the name of MOJO but even whithout the two MOJO is know by many. We people hear the word MOJO they think of Permian football or Austin Powers and I wont listen to much less talk with a person who think MOJO is from Austin Powers.
Those 4 letters say all that we need to say. MOJO

[KattTx]

Actually, it has been 3 years straight. SLC beat us in 2006, Trinity in 2007, and yall in 2008. Hopefully, we can get over the hump this year.:D

Amen!!! :notworthy:notworthy

[Empire strikes back]

thank you...people know Mojo cuz of the movie and the book...we dont have anything like that we go by name JUDSON... would Permian be known if it wasnt for those two (TV & book) prolly not....and the movie really pissed me off cuz of that fake @ss 1988 championship game, and 1995 it's done we won great game MOJO....i just loved yellin' "No Mo' MOJO!!" at that game!!:p:D..........i still love ya'll MOJO fans though;)

Read post #24. Permian is known everywere, and if you don't like it, you can kiss you know what. :p Did the CAT get your tongue? :D But I still love ya'll Judson fans though.

[rocketgrl94]

Read post #24. Permian is known everywere, and if you don't like it, you can kiss you know what. :p Did the CAT get your tongue? :D But I still love ya'll Judson fans though.

i knew u would quote me:D annnd Permian has been forgotton and if ya'll really had some MOJO well u know the rest!:D;)

[RedRage00]

Permian hasn't done anything in how long?

Permian fans live in the past.

Judson is known without needing a book and movie.

[rocketgrl94]

Permian hasn't done anything in how long?

Permian fans live in the past.

Judson is known without needing a book and movie.

thats what i said in my post.
thank you Rage :notworthy
dont make me pull out the Rocket music video for the Mojo fans:D:notworthy

[BlackAttack]

This thread is going in a very predictable way, typical of when some kids can't read a question correctly and then get their little feelings hurt when things don't go their way. If you're 15 years old you probably wouldn't know that Permian was famous BEFORE FNL the book. How in the heck do you think Buzz Bissinger had heard of Permian in the first place? Duh? But it doesn't matter because the original question has nothing to do with how or why Permian is more well-known, it just matters that it is. Judson is a great Texas high school program, that is a fact. But unless they win the next 10 state championships in a row, they will be behind Permian in any discussion of prestige.

[MOJOBELIEVER]

:notworthy :notworthy

[MOJOBELIEVER]

thank you...people know Mojo cuz of the movie and the book...we dont have anything like that we go by name JUDSON... would Permian be known if it wasnt for those two (TV & book) prolly not....and the movie really pissed me off cuz of that fake @ss 1988 championship game, and 1995 it's done we won great game MOJO....i just loved yellin' "No Mo' MOJO!!" at that game!!:p:D..........i still love ya'll MOJO fans though;)


We didn't have any players named MO

[RedRage00]

This thread is going in a very predictable way, typical of when some kids can't read a question correctly and then get their little feelings hurt when things don't go their way. If you're 15 years old you probably wouldn't know that Permian was famous BEFORE FNL the book. How in the heck do you think Buzz Bissinger had heard of Permian in the first place? Duh? But it doesn't matter because the original question has nothing to do with how or why Permian is more well-known, it just matters that it is. Judson is a great Texas high school program, that is a fact. But unless they win the next 10 state championships in a row, they will be behind Permian in any discussion of prestige.

He hadn't heard of them until he started searching for a program to write a book about. He saw a town with no life and knew he could get a good story out of it.

[RedRage00]

We didn't have any players named MO

MO= more :rolleyes:

[rocketgrl94]

We didn't have any players named MO

i forgot let me say "no more MOJO":D;)

[RedRage00]

Our record against the LSWC also speaks for itself.

What is that record Mr. LoneRocket? ;)

[33Blood]

We people hear the word MOJO they think of Permian football or Austin Powers and I wont listen to much less talk with a person who think MOJO is from Austin Powers.
Those 4 letters say all that we need to say. MOJO

I heard MOJO first in reference to Permian and was probably grown before it had any other connotations. AHMO, CUJO, HEYAIO and all the others were copycats of MOJO. Not until my daughter became a "power puff girl" fan did I think of anything else when hearing MOJO.

[LoneRocket]

thank you...people know Mojo cuz of the movie and the book...we dont have anything like that we go by name JUDSON... would Permian be known if it wasnt for those two (TV & book) prolly not....and the movie really pissed me off cuz of that fake @ss 1988 championship game, and 1995 it's done we won great game MOJO....i just loved yellin' "No Mo' MOJO!!" at that game!!:p:D..........i still love ya'll MOJO fans though;)

That game was crazy and their fans really love their team. I heard someone yell out before the game MOJOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO and you could hear him across Texas Stadium. I had seen some Judson fans wearing shirts that said MOJO KILLA's.

[NoHate]

Book and movie or no book and movie, when you say MOJO people know your talking about Permian football. When you say converse people think shoes, when you say judson people ask HUH? Fact is people know MOJO. I still think Judson has done very well.
MOJO, you know what I am talking about...

[LoneRocket]

What is that record Mr. LoneRocket? ;)

Since 1983 4-0-1.

[KattTx]

Permian hasn't done anything in how long?

Permian fans live in the past.

Judson is known without needing a book and movie.

Too long.

No.

Yes - as is Permian.

[RedRage00]

That game was crazy and their fans really love their team. I heard someone yell out before the game MOJOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO and you could here him across Texas Stadium. I had seen shirts that said MOJO KILLA's.

It's not like that anymore. I was seriously dissapointed at last years Allen-Permian game. I went and sat on Permian's side with a friend from west TX and he would start yelling MOJO and it was like pullin' teeth to get the Permian fans around him to chant too. My first permian game wasn't that great...OVERRATED.

[RedRage00]

Since 1983 4-0-1.

Lock this thread...its ova. :notworthy

[rocketgrl94]

That game was crazy and their fans really love their team. I heard someone yell out before the game MOJOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO and you could here him across Texas Stadium. I had seen shirts that said MOJO KILLA's.

i remember seein' them....but it was freakin' loud at the end of the game...i have the tape and u could hear the Judson fans screamin' NO MO' MOJO that was just too fun...i miss those days:(....when we played great or should i say legendary football teams

[Bass]

Katy!




















Sorry. :o

[E-Vol-ution]

Boy...was that predictable or what?:rolleyes:Katy!




















Sorry. :o

[RedRage00]

Boy...was that predictable or what?:rolleyes:

You know when a thread doesn't revolve around Katy they have to come in and make it revolve around them.

[LoneRocket]

i remember seein' them....but it was freakin' loud at the end of the game...i have the tape and u could hear the Judson fans screamin' NO MO' MOJO that was just too fun...i miss those days:(....when we played great or should i say legendary football teams

That is what it is all about, a game that was played 10 years later than it should had been between two teams whose fans love their communities and players who left it all on the field.

[farmerfan]

Judson went to the State finals in 1988, 1992, 1993, 1995, 1996, 2002, 2005 and 2007. Judson won state in 1988, 1992, 1993 1995 and 2002. What has Permian done since 1988? ENOUGH SAID

Judson also went in 83, 90 and 98, with the exception of 83 and 88 Judson advanved to the finals in the 2 division era while Permian advanced to 9 titles games in the 1 champion era. That alone trumps what Judson has done.

[Bass]

Not being raised as a high school football fan until my freshman year at Katy, I never knew Permian or Judson over the other. But now that I can actually look at the schools and compare them, I'm a bigger fan of Judson.

[rocketgrl94]

That is what it is all about, a game that was played 10 years later than it should had been between two teams whose fans love their communities and players who left it all on the field.

yeah i agree:notworthy
but i think the community feel fell apart now:(

[BlackAttack]

It's not like that anymore. I was seriously dissapointed at last years Allen-Permian game. I went and sat on Permian's side with a friend from west TX and he would start yelling MOJO and it was like pullin' teeth to get the Permian fans around him to chant too. My first permian game wasn't that great...OVERRATED.


You're trying hard to stir the pot, but it just isn't getting stirred. :rolleyes:

[Bass]

Boy...was that predictable or what?:rolleyes:

Not like this post! :eek:

[Bass]

You know when a thread doesn't revolve around Katy they have to come in and make it revolve around them.

Yeah, that's exactly what I was doing (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/kid[4]).

[Bass]

Judson also went in 83, 90 and 98, with the exception of 83 and 88 Judson advanved to the finals in the 2 division era while Permian advanced to 9 titles games in the 1 champion era. That alone trumps what Judson has done.

But why can't Permian get it done in the two division format if it's easier?

[RedRage00]

You're trying hard to stir the pot, but it just isn't getting stirred. :rolleyes:

I was just giving my opinion of the game. Not my fault you didn't like it.

[LoneRocket]

yeah i agree:notworthy
but i think the community feel fell apart now:(

You need to start backing those T-Birds. They have a better music video.

[RedRage00]

But why can't Permian get it done in the two division format if it's easier?

Exactly what I was thinking lol

[E-Vol-ution]

no class.....a ring won't get you any.....just look how many you have and still no class............not all of you, but .......I digress.Not like this post! :eek:

[RedRage00]

no class.....a ring won't get you any.....just look how many you have and still no class............not all of you, but .......I digress.

You should be used to katy fans by now. :D

[Bass]

no class.....a ring won't get you any.....just look how many you have and still no class............not all of you, but .......I digress.

C'mon man. Are you that offended by Katy fans on such a daily, minute-by-minute basis that you can't even take a joke? No one's getting behind you to keep up the good fight, here. I gave my opinion of Judson and Permian, but you refuse to comment on that because it doesn't suit your imgae of Katy posters. Damn.

[RedRage00]

C'mon man. Are you that offended by Katy fans on such a daily, minute-by-minute basis that you can't even take a joke? No one's getting behind you to keep up the good fight, here. I gave my opinion of Judson and Permian, but you refuse to comment on that because it doesn't suit your imgae of Katy posters. *******.

Yall are like roaches. lol

Some are okay...a majority are tools.

[mojoguy]

Who cares about prestige? We haven't won a game based on our name in a long time. I would trade the entire world knowing our name for another state title any day of the week.

That being said, this thread is a joke. Judson has a very rich history that is probably about equal to ours. The difference is that we spent ten years trying to reestablish ourselves and everyone still knew who we were.

[Bass]

Yall are like roaches. lol

Some are okay...a majority are tools.

Well then everyone should agree to let Katy go undefeated every year... then we'd have nothing to argue about. :D

Now, Judson and Permian!

[E-Vol-ution]

uh....you still don't get it. This forum AIN'T about Katy.:rolleyes:Try telling a joke without doing that....surprise somebody.:)C'mon man. Are you that offended by Katy fans on such a daily, minute-by-minute basis that you can't even take a joke? No one's getting behind you to keep up the good fight, here. I gave my opinion of Judson and Permian, but you refuse to comment on that because it doesn't suit your imgae of Katy posters. Damn.

[rocketgrl94]

Yall are like roaches. lol

Some are okay...a majority are tools.

okay i have to disagree with you on that Rage... Katy fans have been cool too me on this board no Katy fan has really been a tool too me at least

[RedRage00]

okay i have to disagree with you on that Rage... Katy fans have been cool too me on this board no Katy fan has really been a tool too me at least

You must be dealing with the ones I said are okay :)

[farmerfan]

But why can't Permian get it done in the two division format if it's easier?

Because for beginners Permian is stuck in a region that includes teams from the Metroplex and going through them in rounds 3-5 is a much tougher than going through the Rio Grande Valley. Judson has proven not to fare to well against the Metroplex either in going 2-5. I know this isnt a metroplex discussion but facts are facts. Also, Permian and Judson have both won the same amount of titles and been to the same amount of title games and the one thing that would give Permian the edge is the fact that they did it during the one champ era. Judson won titles in 92 and 95 in divsion 1 after losing to the division 2 champ that year. Judson won a third title after getting killed on the field and happen to benfit by being the last team playing Carter when they were not nearly as competitive against Carter as Permian or Marshall was. That alone puts Permian over Judson

[Bass]

Who has a better shot at the title in 2009? I know nothing about Judson's team coming up, and all I know about Permian is Gaines is back. I've read the book and seen the movie, so that's enough to convince me Permian will be in the title... ;)

[Bass]

Because for beginners Permian is stuck in a region that includes teams from the Metroplex and going through them in rounds 3-5 is a much tougher than going through the Rio Grande Valley. Judson has proven not to fare to well against the Metroplex either in going 2-5. I know this isnt a metroplex discussion but facts are facts. Also, Permian and Judson have both won the same amount of titles and been to the same amount of title games and the one thing that would give Permian the edge is the fact that they did it during the one champ era. Judson won titles in 92 and 95 in divsion 1 after losing to the division 2 champ that year. Judson won a third title after getting killed on the field and happen to benfit by being the last team playing Carter when they were not nearly as competitive against Carter as Permian or Marshall was. That alone puts Permian over Judson

Was Permian not alligned with the Metroplex when it was one division? I have no idea of the history of the region allignments. The montage in the FNL movie did nothing to help, because apparently Permian played North Shore in the second round. :rolleyes:

[rocketgrl94]

Who has a better shot at the title in 2009? I know nothing about Judson's team coming up, and all I know about Permian is Gaines is back. I've read the book and seen the movie, so that's enough to convince me Permian will be in the title... ;)

im tryin' to make people talk on our thread nobody knows anything.....just that we have a "stud" RB and we actually may have a QB that can really throw:eek: thats all i know right now

[farmerfan]

Was Permian not alligned with the Metroplex when it was one division? I have no idea of the history of the region allignments. The montage in the FNL movie did nothing to help, because apparently Permian played North Shore in the second round. :rolleyes:

Yes Permian has always been aligned with the Metroplex. Permian has lot to teams such as Plano, Trinity in both the 80's and 2000's, Lewisville and more losing to Lewisville in 81, Trinity in 82, Plano in 77, 78, 87 and 94 kept Permian from advancing to a possible 6 more title games. Permian has also beaten a metroplex team in the playoffs since 93, Judson has not, losing their last 4. I am also not even using the movie or the book as a reason, it seems as if you are the one caught up in the book and movie, Permian went over 35 years without having a losing record and has won more games than Judson. I dont think Judson can say they have gone 35 years without having a losing record. Everybody has agreed that the playoffs are watered down now and the two division format is bogus, now are we all the sudden saying its not?

[LoneRocket]

Because for beginners Permian is stuck in a region that includes teams from the Metroplex and going through them in rounds 3-5 is a much tougher than going through the Rio Grande Valley. Judson has proven not to fare to well against the Metroplex either in going 2-5. I know this isnt a metroplex discussion but facts are facts. Also, Permian and Judson have both won the same amount of titles and been to the same amount of title games and the one thing that would give Permian the edge is the fact that they did it during the one champ era. Judson won titles in 92 and 95 in divsion 1 after losing to the division 2 champ that year. Judson won a third title after getting killed on the field and happen to benfit by being the last team playing Carter when they were not nearly as competitive against Carter as Permian or Marshall was. That alone puts Permian over Judson

For beginners, we played one round against a Rio Grande Valley/Border Area team just like Permian had to play against El Paso and/or the PanHandle. Up until last year we played in the toughest district in the state where every week was a dogfight. Some districts where you have a power team that might had one or two teams in district that might be able to play with them for 3 or 4 quarters. When playoff time came around they were finally tested and well rested. While teams in 26 were trying to heal and advance into the playoffs.

[RedRage00]

Yes Permian has always been aligned with the Metroplex. Permian has lot to teams such as Plano, Trinity in both the 80's and 2000's, Lewisville and more losing to Lewisville in 81, Trinity in 82, Plano in 77, 78, 87 and 94 kept Permian from advancing to a possible 6 more title games. Permian has also beaten a metroplex team in the playoffs since 93, Judson has not, losing their last 4. I am also not even using the movie or the book as a reason, it seems as if you are the one caught up in the book and movie, Permian went over 35 years without having a losing record and has won more games than Judson. I dont think Judson can say they have gone 35 years without having a losing record. Everybody has agreed that the playoffs are watered down now and the two division format is bogus, now are we all the sudden saying its not?

Judson hasn't had a losing season in 31 years. That's still pretty good.

And the 2 division format does suck! :Censor:

[farmerfan]

For beginners, we played one round against a Rio Grande Valley/Border Area team just like Permian had to play against El Paso and/or the PanHandle. Up until last year we played in the toughest district in the state where every week was a dogfight. Some districts where you have a power team that might had one or two teams in district that might be able to play with them for 3 or 4 quarters. When playoff time came around they were finally tested and well rested. While teams in 26 were trying to heal and advance into the playoffs.

The whole toughest district in the state is a total myth.
Where is the hardware to back it up since it became the so called "toughest district in the state".

[BackNBlack97]

Another thing to note, since 95, the last time Permian played in a title game, they have advanced at least 3 rounds deep 4 times, each time losing to the eventual state champ (98 Duncanville, 06 SLC, 07 Trinity, 08 Allen)... Permian's district (Up until the last alignment) is the only district in the state where EVERY team had played in a state championship game at least once and all but 1 had WON a state championship at least once... Permian had a dark period after Mayes was fired when they tried to go for star power and got Mills and Smith as head coaches... They are back on the right track, and will win another title before long! I think Gaines will hoist one or two before he retires again ;)

[farmerfan]

Judson hasn't had a losing season in 31 years. That's still pretty good.

And the 2 division format does suck! :Censor:

They have had a .500 season though haven't they?
Pemrian wen something like 35 years without having more than 3 losses in a single season.

We do agree on the two division format, it sucks like Katy ;):D

[BackNBlack97]

they have had a .500 season though haven't they?
Pemrian wen something like 35 years without having more than 3 losses in a single season.

We do agree on the two division format, it sucks like allen and plano ;):D

fify

[LoneRocket]

Yes Permian has always been aligned with the Metroplex. Permian has lot to teams such as Plano, Trinity in both the 80's and 2000's, Lewisville and more losing to Lewisville in 81, Trinity in 82, Plano in 77, 78, 87 and 94 kept Permian from advancing to a possible 6 more title games. Permian has also beaten a metroplex team in the playoffs since 93, Judson has not, losing their last 4. I am also not even using the movie or the book as a reason, it seems as if you are the one caught up in the book and movie, Permian went over 35 years without having a losing record and has won more games than Judson. I dont think Judson can say they have gone 35 years without having a losing record. Everybody has agreed that the playoffs are watered down now and the two division format is bogus, now are we all the sudden saying its not?

Permian did not play Plano until the Semi's, They were not in their region.

[Bass]

Yes Permian has always been aligned with the Metroplex. Permian has lot to teams such as Plano, Trinity in both the 80's and 2000's, Lewisville and more losing to Lewisville in 81, Trinity in 82, Plano in 77, 78, 87 and 94 kept Permian from advancing to a possible 6 more title games. Permian has also beaten a metroplex team in the playoffs since 93, Judson has not, losing their last 4. I am also not even using the movie or the book as a reason, it seems as if you are the one caught up in the book and movie, Permian went over 35 years without having a losing record and has won more games than Judson. I dont think Judson can say they have gone 35 years without having a losing record. Everybody has agreed that the playoffs are watered down now and the two division format is bogus, now are we all the sudden saying its not?

I didn't mean to say I was using the book or movie as more reference point for Permian. I meant the opposite- that I know the movie was wrong in having Permian play GPNS, but I still wasn't sure if Permian was R1 with the DFW or R2 with CenTex and never faced the DFW until the semifinals, where they had great success.

But besides that, you say part of the reason Permian hasn't had success in the two division format is the strength of the DFW/Region 1. So as great as Permian was in the past, do you think they're just not as good as they once were? Or is the DFW just that much better?

[BackNBlack97]

I didn't mean to say I was using the book or movie as more reference point for Permian. I meant the opposite- that I know the movie was wrong in having Permian play GPNS, but I still wasn't sure if Permian was R1 with the DFW or R2 with CenTex and never faced the DFW until the semifinals, where they had great success.

But besides that, you say part of the reason Permian hasn't had success in the two division format is the strength of the DFW/Region 1. So as great as Permian was in the past, do you think they're just not as good as they once were? Or is the DFW just that much better?

From 99 til around 06 Permian was down... There were coaching issues and other internal issues at Permian High School... My brother was a graduate in 05, and him and his friends hated going to Permian, and there was no pride in going there like there was in the past... They called it Permian Penitentiary because they said the principal ran it like a jail, not a school... Morale at the school was low, and participation in football suffered... Alot of things have changed, and Permian is a whole different atmosphere now, and as such the winning traditions are back...

[mojo4life]

I didn't mean to say I was using the book or movie as more reference point for Permian. I meant the opposite- that I know the movie was wrong in having Permian play GPNS, but I still wasn't sure if Permian was R1 with the DFW or R2 with CenTex and never faced the DFW until the semifinals, where they had great success.

But besides that, you say part of the reason Permian hasn't had success in the two division format is the strength of the DFW/Region 1. So as great as Permian was in the past, do you think they're just not as good as they once were? Or is the DFW just that much better?

both: It's well documented we had to rebuild; were getting close again.

[farmerfan]

Permian did not play Plano until the Semi's, They were not in their region.

Yes I am aware of that. However they had to play those programs before advancing to a state title game as to where Judson did not. Put Permian in Region 4 and they probably advance to at least 4 and quite possibly many more title games than they have in region 1.

[farmerfan]

I didn't mean to say I was using the book or movie as more reference point for Permian. I meant the opposite- that I know the movie was wrong in having Permian play GPNS, but I still wasn't sure if Permian was R1 with the DFW or R2 with CenTex and never faced the DFW until the semifinals, where they had great success.

But besides that, you say part of the reason Permian hasn't had success in the two division format is the strength of the DFW/Region 1. So as great as Permian was in the past, do you think they're just not as good as they once were? Or is the DFW just that much better?

What success did Judson have when only 1-2 teams went to the playoffs? It goes both ways, Permian dominated in a time when it was much tougher to adavnce to a state title game, logic will tell you when there is only 1 championship as opposed to 2 that is is tougher to play for a championship.
As for Permian not being as good as they once were yes that is true but why punish them now? Permian was winning games way before the state even knew who Judson was. They all have not won a title in while and their titles are all in he past. Who are we to say that title in 02 is more relevant than a title in 91?
As for DFW getting better, yes the Metroplex gets better each year and has shown to have the best football in the entire state. Thats not even up for debate.

[Bass]

What success did Judson have when only 1-2 teams went to the playoffs? It goes both ways, Permian dominated in a time when it was much tougher to adavnce to a state title game, logic will tell you when there is only 1 championship as opposed to 2 that is is tougher to play for a championship.
As for Permian not being as good as they once were yes that is true but why punish them now? Permian was winning games way before the state even knew who Judson was. They all have not won a title in while and their titles are all in he past. Who are we to say that title in 02 is more relevant than a title in 91?
As for DFW getting better, yes the Metroplex gets better each year and has shown to have the best football in the entire state. Thats not even up for debate.

I wasn't trying to compare them to Judson, I was just wondering about the program. But if we're gonna take it that direction (which is the point of the thread, I suppose), just how big do you think the gap is between Judson's championships in the two division format and Permian's single champ titles? And do you think Judson couldn't have had the same success in the single champ format had they had the same coaching in the 90s (did they have the same coaching?)?

[farmerfan]

I wasn't trying to compare them to Judson, I was just wondering about the program. But if we're gonna take it that direction (which is the point of the thread, I suppose), just how big do you think the gap is between Judson's championships in the two division format and Permian's single champ titles? And do you think Judson couldn't have had the same success in the single champ format had they had the same coaching in the 90s (did they have the same coaching?)?

No I do not. Here is what I do know about 3 of Judsons 6 titles, the 88 title was not won on the field and saw Judson benefit from being the team taht playhed Carter in the state finals despit not being competitive with them. In 92 Judson won a title when they lost to the Division 2 champ Temple and 95 saw Judson win a title when they lost to the division 2 champion Rosevelt.

[BackNBlack97]

I wasn't trying to compare them to Judson, I was just wondering about the program. But if we're gonna take it that direction (which is the point of the thread, I suppose), just how big do you think the gap is between Judson's championships in the two division format and Permian's single champ titles? And do you think Judson couldn't have had the same success in the single champ format had they had the same coaching in the 90s (did they have the same coaching?)?

Lets break down the championships... Permian was undisputed Champs in 65, 72, 80, 89... They tied in 84, to finish 15-0-1, and in 91 they were 16-0 and Div 2 State Champs with only one game being closer than double digits, while Div 1 State Champs finished 12-2-1... Judson was undisputed champs in 83, and received the 88 state championship after a forfeit overturned their game with Carter... In 92 Judson was Div 1 state champ and lost head to head against the Div 2 state champ during the regular season... In 93 Judson was Div 1 state champ and undefeated with 2 ties... In 95 Judson beat Permian head to head for the state champ, but lost to the Div 2 state champ in the regular season... In 2002 They were Div 1 champs with 1 loss where SLC was Div 2 champs and undefeated... What do those numbers say to you?

[mojotrain]

I would say Permian would have the prestige because of the book "Friday Night Lights" and also the movie "Friday Night Lights", that is how some people identify with their community. Some young people who watched the movie actually believe that was the 1988 state championship game.

People who watch movies get what they pay for.

I guess you can view it that way but if you are old enough you must know Permian was known nationwide long before the book. Permian was the reason for the book not the other way around. Both the book and the movie were released at about the time Permian began her free fall. I don't see much difference in either teams accomplishments but Permian was the most famous of the two because of what they did before FNL. FNL the book then the movie just made them notorious.

Judson has a upper hand in head to head games. Permian has the upper hand in state championship games against San Antonio. I think Thee to one.

One of your trophys was not won on the field. Permian played the same team that allowed you that trophy but played them a much, much closer game. Permians six all came on the field.

It's so much easier to make playoffs today, Several of Permians best teams were knocked out of even making the playoffs with only one district loss.

Since Permian began the LSWC has won 10 State championships so there no denying that over this period of time the LSWC was the toughest in the state. Not now, but when Permian did it. I'm not sure any district can make that claim.

[Bass]

Lets break down the championships... Permian was undisputed Champs in 65, 72, 80, 89... They tied in 84, to finish 15-0-1, and in 91 they were 16-0 and Div 2 State Champs with only one game being closer than double digits, while Div 1 State Champs finished 12-2-1... Judson was undisputed champs in 83, and received the 88 state championship after a forfeit overturned their game with Carter... In 92 Judson was Div 1 state champ and lost head to head against the Div 2 state champ during the regular season... In 93 Judson was Div 1 state champ and undefeated with 2 ties... In 95 Judson beat Permian head to head for the state champ, but lost to the Div 2 state champ in the regular season... In 2002 They were Div 1 champs with 1 loss where SLC was Div 2 champs and undefeated... What do those numbers say to you?

It says to me that Permian was better in the 80s (and 70s and 60s...) and Judson was better in the 90s. As an outsider to both programs, who didn't pay attention to high school football until 2003, I don't look at one program as being better than the other. As a Katy fan I look up to both teams because they were doing it before us. I'll agree that the Permian teams from the 80s were more cut and dry than the two-division Judson teams, but I still think what Judson has done is great. Neither is any less of a dynasty to me.

[33Blood]

Since Permian began the LSWC has won 10 State championships so there no denying that over this period of time the LSWC was the toughest in the state. Not now, but when Permian did it. I'm not sure any district can make that claim.

Well it's hard to compare other districts since realignment comes into play every few years in the metroplex. But 5-5A and 6-5A both have a lot of titles floating around. They just haven't been as static.

[mojotrain]

But why can't Permian get it done in the two division format if it's easier?

Thats easy

From along about the mid- ninties until 2005 we couldn't have got it done if there had been a ten division format. We were bad. It had nothing to do with the kids. It had every thing to do with coach. Stay in the game long enough and you too will get a taste of a coaching problem.

[Bass]

To everyone outside of Texas, Permian wasn't famous because they were in a one-champ system for so long, they were famous because of the dedication of a dead-end oil town to its team. FNL didn't expose the format Permian was winning in. It was something that blew peoples' minds... anything after that is going to fall short. I don't think there's room in today's society for the same fascination the outside world had with Permian.

[33Blood]

Thats easy

From along about the mid- ninties until 2005 we couldn't have got it done if there had been a ten division format. We were bad. It had nothing to do with the kids. It had every thing to do with coach. Stay in the game long enough and you too will get a taste of a coaching problem.

Amen to that. Every so often somebody tries to shoehorn a square peg in a round hole.

[33Blood]

To everyone outside of Texas, Permian wasn't famous because they were in a one-champ system for so long, they were famous because of the dedication of a dead-end oil town to its team. FNL didn't expose the format Permian was winning in. It was something that blew peoples' minds... anything after that is going to fall short. I don't think there's room in today's society for the same fascination the outside world had with Permian.

Yeah there have been many that thought of them as a cult out there. And many more that were jealous they couldn't get their community to support a team anywhere near as vehemently.

[farmerfan]

To everyone outside of Texas, Permian wasn't famous because they were in a one-champ system for so long, they were famous because of the dedication of a dead-end oil town to its team. FNL didn't expose the format Permian was winning in. It was something that blew peoples' minds... anything after that is going to fall short. I don't think there's room in today's society for the same fascination the outside world had with Permian.

The question was asked to which is more impressive. You can't argue the legitamcy of winning a title in a 1 champ format compared to a 2 champ format. With Permian the question was never left of were they the best team in teh state when they won one, with Judson that was done at least 3 times with facts to back up, no they were not the best team in the state when they won their division titles.
To everybody outside of Texas Permian was famous for the quality of football they played and the level they were able to keep that at for so long. Everybody outside of Texas knew that Permian was a winner. This was long before the book too.

[mojotrain]

Who has a better shot at the title in 2009? I know nothing about Judson's team coming up, and all I know about Permian is Gaines is back. I've read the book and seen the movie, so that's enough to convince me Permian will be in the title... ;)

In case this was a real question. Until our coaching change a few weeks back I felt we had a decent chance of playing 16 games. But the old coach seemed to get tunnel vision in the 13 th games against two outstanding teams. But it was just his forth year of being a head coach, at any level. So my thoughts were that he might finally have enough experience to drag us over the 13th game.

The coach we have in place now can and will get us past #13 but I'm not so sure about this year. A change is a change and no matter how much things are hoped to be the same,.... well just ask SLC.

[mojotrain]

For beginners, we played one round against a Rio Grande Valley/Border Area team just like Permian had to play against El Paso and/or the PanHandle. Up until last year we played in the toughest district in the state where every week was a dogfight. Some districts where you have a power team that might had one or two teams in district that might be able to play with them for 3 or 4 quarters. When playoff time came around they were finally tested and well rested. While teams in 26 were trying to heal and advance into the playoffs.

Tell me how many state campionships your district has won since 1959 and I'll agree with you if you can come up with a number higher than ten. If not then Judson has not ever played in the toughest district in the state.

[farmerfan]

Tell me how many state campionships your district has won since 1959 and I'll agree with you if you can come up with a number higher than ten. If not then Judson has not ever played in the toughest district in the state.

The whole 26-5A being the toughest district in the state on a yearly basis is a total myth. They can claim 95 since both champs hailed from there but thats about it. Outside of Judson there has not been another program from the San Antonio area win a state title since Rosevelt did it in 95.

[mojotrain]

It says to me that Permian was better in the 80s (and 70s and 60s...) and Judson was better in the 90s. As an outsider to both programs, who didn't pay attention to high school football until 2003, I don't look at one program as being better than the other. As a Katy fan I look up to both teams because they were doing it before us. I'll agree that the Permian teams from the 80s were more cut and dry than the two-division Judson teams, but I still think what Judson has done is great. Neither is any less of a dynasty to me.

Your first sentence is pretty much correct.

[mojotrain]

Well it's hard to compare other districts since realignment comes into play every few years in the metroplex. But 5-5A and 6-5A both have a lot of titles floating around. They just haven't been as static.

OK, but I'm talking about three little ole bitty towns but miles and miles apart and all in one district. San Angelo, Midland and Odessa.

[mojotrain]

To everyone outside of Texas, Permian wasn't famous because they were in a one-champ system for so long, they were famous because of the dedication of a dead-end oil town to its team. FNL didn't expose the format Permian was winning in. It was something that blew peoples' minds... anything after that is going to fall short. I don't think there's room in today's society for the same fascination the outside world had with Permian.

Ok, it appears you are now ready to turn all crappy on us. I had just about let you get away with the slamming of Permian as I had the town of Odessa. If you wish to turn this into a whizzing contest between your place or mine, go to the yard and start a thread intitled Odessa dead- end oil town. You can expect lots of help over there.

[mojotrain]

To everyone outside of Texas, Permian wasn't famous because they were in a one-champ system for so long, they were famous because of the dedication of a dead-end oil town to its team. FNL didn't expose the format Permian was winning in. It was something that blew peoples' minds... anything after that is going to fall short. I don't think there's room in today's society for the same fascination the outside world had with Permian.

If you know nothing of Permian other that the book or movie then go to Permian High schools web site. Just permian.com or something like that. It's all there and indeed impressive.

FNL wasn't intended to reveal a format. It was intended to sell books and perhaps make a movie. It did. Don't believe what you see on the big screen.

[mojotrain]

Where did eveyone go?

[abileneeagles311]

i'm gonna have to go with permian on this one

[Bass]

Ok, it appears you are now ready to turn all crappy on us. I had just about let you get away with the slamming of Permian as I had the town of Odessa. If you wish to turn this into a whizzing contest between your place or mine, go to the yard and start a thread intitled Odessa dead- end oil town. You can expect lots of help over there.

Once again you're assuming way too much. Tell me, do you really believe Odessa was perceived as more than a dead-end oil town to anyone outside of Texas before Friday Night Lights came out? And even after the book was published, do you think non-Texans believed differently? Of course not. That's what people wanted to believe. It added to the mystique. I, personally, am not calling Odessa the end of the world. I'm sorry my original post came across like that.

[Bass]

If you know nothing of Permian other that the book or movie then go to Permian High schools web site. Just permian.com or something like that. It's all there and indeed impressive.

FNL wasn't intended to reveal a format. It was intended to sell books and perhaps make a movie. It did. Don't believe what you see on the big screen.

I don't even know why I left that in my original post. I was gonna say something else, or make some kind of... point... but I had to go eat dinner and didn't stop to re-read my post.

[Bass]

To everyone outside of Texas, Permian wasn't famous because they were in a one-champ system for so long, they were famous because of the dedication of a dead-end oil town to its team. FNL didn't expose the format Permian was winning in. It was something that blew peoples' minds... anything after that is going to fall short. I don't think there's room in today's society for the same fascination the outside world had with Permian.

I think the point I was gonna try to make here is that the outside world's fascination with Permian doesn't go hand in hand with Texas' own fascination.

The second part stands as is. No one again can hope to live up to the national hype and awe of Permian. Carroll's probably come closest, but look what it took... a monstrous five-year run (which might not be over, of course). Really puts Permian's fame in perspective.

[LoneRocket]

Tell me how many state campionships your district has won since 1959 and I'll agree with you if you can come up with a number higher than ten. If not then Judson has not ever played in the toughest district in the state.

The district we were in had 9 championships since 1959, besides we settled that question in 1983, 1995 and 2002.

[LoneRocket]

Yes I am aware of that. However they had to play those programs before advancing to a state title game as to where Judson did not. Put Permian in Region 4 and they probably advance to at least 4 and quite possibly many more title games than they have in region 1.

So you are saying Northshore, Katy, Westfield, Elisk, Eisenhower, Kingwood, Dulles, Aldine, Stratdford, Yates and Westbrook are not worthy teams?

[MOJO Mystique]

Say what you want about perceptions or whatever. The poll says Permian in a landslide.

[farmerfan]

So you are saying Northshore, Katy, Westfield, Elisk, Eisenhower, Kingwood, Dulles, Aldine, Stratdford, Yates and Westbrook are not worthy teams?

Outside of Katy, yes I am saying that. Aldine and Yates have the one title to go along with Shore but Shore has shown more than not that they are overrated big time. Elsik, Dulles, Westbrook, Kingwood, Ike and Westfield have never won anything before.

[mojotrain]

Once again you're assuming way too much. Tell me, do you really believe Odessa was perceived as more than a dead-end oil town to anyone outside of Texas before Friday Night Lights came out? And even after the book was published, do you think non-Texans believed differently? Of course not. That's what people wanted to believe. It added to the mystique. I, personally, am not calling Odessa the end of the world. I'm sorry my original post came across like that.

I've had this argument before. This is to the one who insist that his/her knowledge of Odessa is from a book/movie called friday night lights.


I assume you are Katy. First of all go to any place outside of Texas and say I'm from Katy Texas. They will say, what? You say Katy, it's kinda like Houston. They will say, Oh then mean Houston? You say, No I'm from Katy. They will say, what is Katy without Houston? You say, Well. They will say, could Katy could exist without hanging on the apron strings of Houston? You say, well I don't know. Then they will say, what is Katy without Houston? You say, well we once were a bunch of rice growing dirt scrathers. But now it seems we have have no identity of our own. Like the cellophane man, we are the cellophane city.

Odessa and /or Midland or any West Texas town can stand alone hundreds of miles from anyplace and survive.

I and about 100,000 thousand people live in Odessa because this is where we want to live. If you want to brag about your team this is the place or if you want to brag about the town of Katy start another thread. still If you want to shell Odessa kiss my mojo fannie.

Apologies to the rest of Katy.

[33Blood]

First of all go to any place outside of Texas and say I'm from Katy Texas. They will say, what?

I figured they would say isn't that the town named for the old MKT railroad. But then I am from Texas and didn't know that not everyone took Texas History in the 6th grade until I was in my 30's. And I still feel sorry for all those kids that grow up in other states.

[Bass]

I've had this argument before. This is to the one who insist that his/her knowledge of Odessa is from a book/movie called friday night lights.


I assume you are Katy. First of all go to any place outside of Texas and say I'm from Katy Texas. They will say, what? You say Katy, it's kinda like Houston. They will say, Oh then mean Houston? You say, No I'm from Katy. They will say, what is Katy without Houston? You say, Well. They will say, could Katy could exist without hanging on the apron strings of Houston? You say, well I don't know. Then they will say, what is Katy without Houston? You say, well we once were a bunch of rice growing dirt scrathers. But now it seems we have have no identity of our own. Like the cellophane man, we are the cellophane city.

Odessa and /or Midland or any West Texas town can stand alone hundreds of miles from anyplace and survive.

I and about 100,000 thousand people live in Odessa because this is where we want to live. If you want to brag about your team this is the place or if you want to brag about the town of Katy start another thread. still If you want to shell Odessa kiss my mojo fannie.

Apologies to the rest of Katy.

I don't think you understood my point. I don't have a problem with Odessa, and I have no idea what the town is actually like. I'm saying people outside of Texas want to believe it's some terrible little town because that makes them even more fascinated with Permian. Reading Friday Night Lights that's the impression I got of the town, but like everything else in the book, I took it with a grain of salt.

I have no problem with Permian or Odessa. I want to make that clear.

And you're right, Katy wouldn't be what it is today without Houston. We'd still be a very small town. We don't have something to contribute like Odessa. You can get rice near everywhere, oil not so much.

[mojotrain]

The district we were in had 9 championships since 1959, besides we settled that question in 1983, 1995 and 2002.

Well thats what I said, you don't have ten you have nine and one was a gimmy. Give your district eight, nine if you insist and it still isn't ten. So you haven't been in the toughest district. That was the question.

Look, I never played a down of football in my life. I've never been interviewed for the compiling or publishing of two different books. I've never been in a movie made from of one of the books, I have given no moneys for the production of any of those venues. I never voted for Permian to be selected the high school national champions. Two times! I didn't award them team of the decade, whenever it was. What Permian is or what Permian was or how Permian is percieved by those who know nothing more about her than a book, I have also had nothing to do with. It's not my fault Permian is or was viewed as the standard of Texas Highschool football.
Those accolades were heaped on this school nation wide prior to the book. I can't answer why the book wasn't written about Judson, Plano, Katy or SLC.

I have however always praised Three schools for "all time" notice on these boards. Permian, Plano and Judson. That, of course is the way I would rank them as would will the rest of the State and Nation. Now you can add SLC, Katy and maybe ET as well. But the first three are close.

If the only boast from Judson is that you won head to head matches with us then move over for Plano. They beat us four times and thats four times when when we were great.



Permian speaks for herself. I only make those already jealous of her esteem or maybe notority mad.

[mojotrain]

I don't think you understood my point. I don't have a problem with Odessa, and I have no idea what the town is actually like. I'm saying people outside of Texas want to believe it's some terrible little town because that makes them even more fascinated with Permian. Reading Friday Night Lights that's the impression I got of the town, but like everything else in the book, I took it with a grain of salt.

I have no problem with Permian or Odessa. I want to make that clear.

And you're right, Katy wouldn't be what it is today without Houston. We'd still be a very small town. We don't have something to contribute like Odessa. You can get rice near everywhere, oil not so much.

Ok but dead-end sounded a little caustic to me.
Odessa is small around 115,000 now when oil drops we drop to 90,000 Midland 20 miles or 13 minutes away is about the same. Some consider us together for commercial reasons. Inside the city the only thing that grows is what you plant and then you must water it. Yearly we recieve about 13 inches of rain/hail mix. Man you should see it on the day it comes. It's always been easy to make excellent money here. With or without a degree.

Odessa Junior College has more national championships than any junior college in the Nation. Odessa has a University, UTPB, it has just moved into Div.II and is a member of of the Heartland Conference. Perhaps w/3500 students.

We are don't have highend retail outlets of major cities, but In what I consider the best, brighest, cleanest, most efficent regional airport in the nation we have Southwest, Continental, and a regional airline or two. Then it's one hour to Dallas, one hour +15 to Austin, same to San tone, maybe one +45 to Houston. Getting there is no problem, getting across them is, and thats your place.

Our two hospitals are highly ranked in those publications who rank them. A Odessa doctor, now in Chicago perfected the technique of robotic heart surgery here. I think it's also documented the little preemys stand a better chance of survival here than most places.

Odessa has mostly voted consevative.

I've said before, I'm 71, retired and could live any place. Odessa just fits me. It's not a place suited to everyone and that too is a plus to those who live here.

Thanks for not turning this into a free for all.

[mojotrain]

i'm gonna have to go with permian on this one

You better.

[fballgirl22]

Well thats what I said, you don't have ten you have nine and one was a gimmy. Give your district eight, nine if you insist and it still isn't ten. So you haven't been in the toughest district. That was the question.

Look, I never played a down of football in my life. I've never been interviewed for the compiling or publishing of two different books. I've never been in a movie made from of one of the books, I have given no moneys for the production of any of those venues. I never voted for Permian to be selected the high school national champions. Two times! I didn't award them team of the decade, whenever it was. What Permian is or what Permian was or how Permian is percieved by those who know nothing more about her than a book, I have also had nothing to do with. It's not my fault Permian is or was viewed as the standard of Texas Highschool football.
Those accolades were heaped on this school nation wide prior to the book. I can't answer why the book wasn't written about Judson, Plano, Katy or SLC.

I have however always praised Three schools for "all time" notice on these boards. Permian, Plano and Judson. That, of course is the way I would rank them as would will the rest of the State and Nation. Now you can add SLC, Katy and maybe ET as well. But the first three are close.

If the only boast from Judson is that you won head to head matches with us then move over for Plano. They beat us four times and thats four times when when we were great.



Permian speaks for herself. I only make those already jealous of her esteem or maybe notority mad.


:notworthy

[mojotrain]

So you are saying Northshore, Katy, Westfield, Elisk, Eisenhower, Kingwood, Dulles, Aldine, Stratdford, Yates and Westbrook are not worthy teams?

Dang!!! I didn't know Yates was in your district. Yes I would now agree those teams you list would make you the strongest district in the state.

Permian was just in the second strongest district in the state with Abilene, Abilene Cooper, Midland Lee, Midland High, San Angelo, OHS, Euless Trinity, Allen, SLC, Plano, Lewisville and Del Rio.

[mojotrain]

:notworthy

If you are still awake, take over if Judson replys. I've done my best.

[fballgirl22]

If you are still awake, take over if Judson replys. I've done my best.


If they won't listen to you they sure as heck won't listen to a WT Gal. ;)

[odessapermian.com]

It's not a place suited to everyone and that too is a plus to those who live here.

Best line I've read today.

[Dawg Fan]

This is really just a one horse race when you look at the thread title. I knew about Permian's mystique back in the 70's and I grew up in Waco. While Judson has an impressive resume, Permian will always be the team people will remember and it didn't hurt a thing when the book and movie came out except for some of the liberties taken by the author.

[MOJOBELIEVER]

MO= more :rolleyes:

Hook meet bait:rolleyes:

[mojotrain]

Hook meet bait:rolleyes:

Where have you been:mad:

[MOJOBELIEVER]

Finding houses for coaches :) I've been at the field a few times this week but didn't see you.

[fballgirl22]

Finding houses for coaches :) I've been at the field a few times this week but didn't see you.


There is a couple of houses down the street from me, put them in em and I will be sure to keep ya in the loop;)

[farmerfan]

nm

[svhorns]

you drunk moron... edit your post.

[svhorns]

I voted Permian. Everyone and their mother knows who Permian is.

[catcher]

Where is Converse?

[bobcat83]

Where is Converse?

San Antonio

Everyone is obviously bored when we have to argue over these 2 programs.If it were not for the book and tv then it would be Judson over the last 25 years.Ah the power of the media!
I loved the book and the show

[PermianFan]

If it were not for the fact that Permian is so widely recognized, it would be someone else (Plano, SLC, Judson, Katy, ET....) :D. All great programs, but there is only one answer when it comes to public perception.

[mojotrain]

Finding houses for coaches :) I've been at the field a few times this week but didn't see you.

I've been on this site defending Permians and the Basins Honor.

[mojotrain]

San Antonio

Everyone is obviously bored when we have to argue over these 2 programs.If it were not for the book and tv then it would be Judson over the last 25 years.Ah the power of the media!
I loved the book and the show


Another envy thing?

[mojotrain]

San Antonio

Everyone is obviously bored when we have to argue over these 2 programs.If it were not for the book and tv then it would be Judson over the last 25 years.Ah the power of the media!
I loved the book and the show

and you are the guy that buys a house then trys to figure out where the money for the payment is coming from. Then, those who are bored are not here. Then this is about the programs from the time each school opened in 1959. If you want to start a 25 year thread then SLC and Katy will be the converse daddys.

[33Blood]

Then this is about the programs from the time each school opened in 1959. If you want to start a 25 year thread then SLC and Katy will be the converse daddys.

I don't know of any other 2 schools that started the same year that share such similar successes.

[rocketgrl94]

Where is Converse?

in a shoebox....where Chuck Taylors originated from.....j/k :D

[AE 8008]

permian

[E-Vol-ution]

I truly believe many dissenters do not acknowledge the question posed in the post. Arguing your record, titles.......that only enforces what you do not possess. You cannot argue yourself into a favorable "presitge" position. It comes without words, anger or sales pitches. It doesn't mean you lose.....it just means you are not it.

[odessapermian.com]

I truly believe many dissenters do not acknowledge the question posed in the post. Arguing your record, titles.......that only enforces what you do not possess. You cannot argue yourself into a favorable "presitge" position. It comes without words, anger or sales pitches. It doesn't mean you lose.....it just means you are not it.

Once again you have hit the nail on the head.