Should Texas Secede?

[Oak_panthers]

Although my whole life I grew up a strong and proud American citizen, times are starting to change. With the tax plans that will be taking place, the increased size in government, country debt, problems and questions with Obama and his association, etc. I now believe secession may be an idea to consider. In Texas have the Houston ship channel (one of the largest ports in the US), we are the nations state leader in oil production, we have a ton of military bases in the austin/dallas/fortworth/hill country area, we are extremely large, we are fairly independant already, we have one of the worlds best hospitals and cancer centers, etc. which all give us a great edge in starting the Republic of Texas back up again. If the US wanted to keep control of NASA, their military bases, have cheap access to our oil, and have access to the ship channel and all the other major ports in Texas then they would be forced to be a huge ally with the Republic of Texas (this would include full backup in any military conflicts or we could cut them off completely which would be devestating to the US economy). There are many other reasons we would do just fine, and many other reasons we should consider leaving the Union. For now it's only an idea, but anindeed idea Rick Perry has infact mentioned and is now beginning to look more strongly into. Not sure where this is going to bring us, but whatever ends up happening, God Bless Texas!

[DragonWatcher]

Your an idiot.

Signed someone who understands what a republic constitutes.

[DownSouth]

I really hope this works out for you guys.

It'd really help the U.S. - one less state to spend money on, AND once we invade and conquer you guys we can take all of your oil!

WooHoo for sucession!!!:rolleyes:

[HUM398]

Your an idiot.

Signed someone who understands what a republic constitutes.


I don't consider your response dissenting opinion, but a boorish move to belittle a valid opinion.

If you are going to cap on the guy, give me a little more to read then your name calling and invalid attempt to "one up" said poster.


By the way...YOU'RE.....

[the_phoenix612]

I don't consider your response dissenting opinion, but a boorish move to belittle a valid opinion.

If you are going to cap on the guy, give me a little more to read then your name calling and invalid attempt to "one up" said poster.


By the way...YOU'RE.....

this post is going to bite you in the *** SO hard SO many times, you have no idea...

[the_phoenix612]

you missed an "e" in your poll, btw...

[slorch]

I really hope this works out for you guys.

It'd really help the U.S. - one less state to spend money on, AND once we invade and conquer you guys we can take all of your oil!

WooHoo for sucession!!!:rolleyes:

If Congress would have this attitude in the first place, we wouldn't be in this mess.

BTW, I'd wager there's a net gain on Texas. although all of those Democratic voters...um...less than legal folks might tip the ledger into the red.

[ktCarl]

Your an idiot.

Signed someone who understands what a republic constitutes.

But Texas started out as a Republic? :confused:

I would rather be a part of the Union. Let's just have the US Fed guv'ment scale back a bit and quit spending plus eroding our freedoms....FIRST.

'All we are saying... is give peace a chance.' author dead.

[smw358]

I really hope this works out for you guys.

It'd really help the U.S. - one less state to spend money on, AND once we invade and conquer you guys we can take all of your oil!

WooHoo for sucession!!!:rolleyes:

Who is we? You and that rock in your pocket?

[DragonWatcher]

I don't consider your response dissenting opinion, but a boorish move to belittle a valid opinion.

If you are going to cap on the guy, give me a little more to read then your name calling and invalid attempt to "one up" said poster.


By the way...YOU'RE.....

Yep because when someone gets voted in in a republic and you don't agree with them you just break away. That's what a republic is. No real power behind a majority decision. Your not bound by any rules of voting etc. It's really quite bad when one has to explain how a republic an secession don't agree in two thousand freakin nine

[mojotrain]

No!

[HUM398]

this post is going to bite you in the *** SO hard SO many times, you have no idea...

Theirs a difference when calling lonny a moron, and someone who is just out to discuss something.

And no, it wont.....

I stated, if you are going to cap on him at least provide a dissenting opinion...not just that you think he is a moron cause he disagrees with you.

[HUM398]

Yep because when someone gets voted in in a republic and you don't agree with them you just break away. That's what a republic is. No real power behind a majority decision. Your not bound by any rules of voting etc. It's really quite bad when one has to explain how a republic an secession don't agree in two thousand freakin nine

Well as a human being i have a right to overthrow my Government if it becomes oppressive....and in this case they may believe it to be so. now, i don't believe in Session...but activism.

simply because you do not recognize the legitimate threat that comes from absolute majority rule however, doesn't mean those asking about secession are irrational..... or in the moral wrong....They are in fact practicing a moral right.

It may upset you, but it is perfectly fine from them to express their opinion despite your stand against it.


A Government power derives from the people, Majority and Minority... The moment a Democracy (which for some reason or another unknown to me is synonymous these days with Republic) fails to protect the Minority...it becomes Tyrannical...it is the direction i believe we are headed. Now i believe this country is more split then it has been since the 1860's...With that, the party of power was voted in...Which means the Majority will rule, but must realize it is not an absolute rule......Its "We won...We do what we want" attitude in Washington DC right now... and that is whats wrong.

You say Secession isn't a right, i believe that people have a certain unalienable right... IF the state of Texas as a whole votes to Overthrow the U.S claiming tyranny..Then who are you to propose it a moral wrong? Now the Government has a certain right to fight for what they believe as do the people of this state...Now, i am in no way condoning Secession...i love this country....i much rather fix it, then overthrow it..... But the right to take the Government and trash it is a essential and unalienable right granted to us by our Creator. No Government would logically put it in their law in so many words, but the Founding fathers gave us the tools to do so if this Democratic-Republic turned into a Tyrannical oppressive machine.

[DragonWatcher]

Well as a human being i have a right to overthrow my Government if it becomes oppressive....and in this case they may believe it to be so. now, i don't believe in Session...but activism.

simply because you do not recognize the legitimate threat that comes from absolute majority rule however, doesn't mean those asking about secession are irrational..... or in the moral wrong....They are in fact practicing a moral right.

It may upset you, but it is perfectly fine from them to express their opinion despite your stand against it.


A Government power derives from the people, Majority and Minority... The moment a Democracy (which for some reason or another unknown to me is synonymous these days with Republic) fails to protect the Minority...it becomes Tyrannical...it is the direction i believe we are headed. Now i believe this country is more split then it has been since the 1860's...With that, the party of power was voted in...Which means the Majority will rule, but must realize it is not an absolute rule......Its "We won...We do what we want" attitude in Washington DC right now... and that is whats wrong.

You say Secession isn't a right, i believe that people have a certain unalienable right... IF the state of Texas as a whole votes to Overthrow the U.S claiming tyranny..Then who are you to propose it a moral wrong? Now the Government has a certain right to fight for what they believe as do the people of this state...Now, i am in no way condoning Secession...i love this country....i much rather fix it, then overthrow it..... But the right to take the Government and trash it is a essential and unalienable right granted to us by our Creator. No Government would logically put it in their law in so many words, but the Founding fathers gave us the tools to do so if this Democratic-Republic turned into a Tyrannical oppressive machine.

Except it hasn't turned into a tyrannical machine. So many of you are confusing losing with tyranny. Yes you might be taxed higher but that's not tyranny, your represented in congress. What rights of yours have really been trampled here? I'd like to see the amendments that have been violated in the first 100 days that lead to these claims. I get you don't like what's going on, that's fine, protest, yell be angry I'm all for that but calling for secession is so idiotic at the current moment it makes our state look like a bunch of petty hicks who can't take a loss. The "we won" attitude in washington is how government should work, the majority voted for a democrat so we should by logical extensions be having an increase in democratic programs. Which rights of yours have been violated that weren't before Obama took office? It is insanely maddening trying to understand the paradox of people on this board who less than 3 years ago have claimed the "love it or leave it" attitude and are now saying secession isn't a bad idea.

[HUM398]

Except it hasn't turned into a tyrannical machine. So many of you are confusing losing with tyranny. Yes you might be taxed higher but that's not tyranny, your represented in congress. What rights of yours have really been trampled here? I'd like to see the amendments that have been violated in the first 100 days that lead to these claims. I get you don't like what's going on, that's fine, protest, yell be angry I'm all for that but calling for secession is so idiotic at the current moment it makes our state look like a bunch of petty hicks who can't take a loss. The "we won" attitude in washington is how government should work, the majority voted for a democrat so we should by logical extensions be having an increase in democratic programs. Which rights of yours have been violated that weren't before Obama took office? It is insanely maddening trying to understand the paradox of people on this board who less than 3 years ago have claimed the "love it or leave it" attitude and are now saying secession isn't a bad idea.

First off, i have already stated i am not for secession....and i do find it hypocritical to hear those claim secession...But it is not invalid thought.

The amendments are not the only right people have my friend, it goes much deeper then that. the Constitution doesn't prohibit someone from killing you, yet it is illegal. The problem is that our Government hasn't worked for us for the better of 15 years now... Their are many changes that should and must be made... For example, Congressional Term Limits...If not that at least consecutive term limits. The fact that the Congress holds the power to increase their wages and pensions is determent to the success of our nation...They have lost touch with the Common American, therefore representing us in name only...

You are living in a dream world if you think this has anything to do with the "Conservative" losing the election... Like i have stated before, this isn't a partisan thing... This is an awakening to the overreach of Government.

I am heaping mad at both sides....The fact that we don't have a single statesmen in Congress is sad....When the lobbyist and world opinion hold more power then the minority of this country it is a staggering defeat for liberty.

[DownSouth]

Who is we? You and that rock in your pocket?


No SILLY!

The USA!

And that rock isnt in my pocket, its in my shoe - it really helps to anger the hell out of me which helps repel people away from asking me stupid face-to-face questions.:D

[mojotrain]

Except it hasn't turned into a tyrannical machine. So many of you are confusing losing with tyranny. Yes you might be taxed higher but that's not tyranny, your represented in congress. What rights of yours have really been trampled here? I'd like to see the amendments that have been violated in the first 100 days that lead to these claims. I get you don't like what's going on, that's fine, protest, yell be angry I'm all for that but calling for secession is so idiotic at the current moment it makes our state look like a bunch of petty hicks who can't take a loss. The "we won" attitude in washington is how government should work, the majority voted for a democrat so we should by logical extensions be having an increase in democratic programs. Which rights of yours have been violated that weren't before Obama took office? It is insanely maddening trying to understand the paradox of people on this board who less than 3 years ago have claimed the "love it or leave it" attitude and are now saying secession isn't a bad idea.

You only forgot to add that bowbama and his forty thieves are taking over the banks and auto industry and are doing it using the tax money from us bunch of hicks.
Bowbama "i love Chavez" and his buds don't pay tax and neither do the banner waving gimmys who lined up in DC on the day he claimed his crown. Other than that your post is ok. Look for more of these Hicks to come out of the closet.

[DragonWatcher]

You only forgot to add that bowbama and his forty thieves are taking over the banks and auto industry and are doing it using the tax money from us bunch of hicks.
Bowbama "i love Chavez" and his buds don't pay tax and neither do the banner waving gimmys who lined up in DC on the day he claimed his crown. Other than that your post is ok. Look for more of these Hicks to come out of the closet.

Yep, see this an example of another thing that isn't trampling your rights. There are no amendments nor rights that talk about government support of the banks or takeover. Pure capitalism isn't a right, its a choice made by the people. So if the people vote in someone who does something else, gives these banks money, then it's not an abridgement of the constitution. Mixing up losing with tyranny...

Another question I'd like to pose to you all worried about tyranny why did you just become aware of the concept in January and turn a blind eye to the last 8 years?

[DragonWatcher]

First off, i have already stated i am not for secession....and i do find it hypocritical to hear those claim secession...But it is not invalid thought.

The amendments are not the only right people have my friend, it goes much deeper then that. the Constitution doesn't prohibit someone from killing you, yet it is illegal. The problem is that our Government hasn't worked for us for the better of 15 years now... Their are many changes that should and must be made... For example, Congressional Term Limits...If not that at least consecutive term limits. The fact that the Congress holds the power to increase their wages and pensions is determent to the success of our nation...They have lost touch with the Common American, therefore representing us in name only...

You are living in a dream world if you think this has anything to do with the "Conservative" losing the election... Like i have stated before, this isn't a partisan thing... This is an awakening to the overreach of Government.

I am heaping mad at both sides....The fact that we don't have a single statesmen in Congress is sad....When the lobbyist and world opinion hold more power then the minority of this country it is a staggering defeat for liberty.

Sorry should have been more clear, I'm not arguing against you I got that you weren't for secession. Killing is illegal because a person has a right to their own life. To have a claim to tyranny the government must be in someone stomping on those rights. We don't have that now, but I do agree with you that term limits are good ideas, and that lobbyists are more powerful than the minority right now, but these still don't come close to rights. A minority doesn't necessarily have the right to be powerful, and a congressman continually elected is still done so by the people so it's no where near tyranny. Sure I agree with you that there needs to be big change, my only point is that people shouting secession due to "tyranny" need to shut the hell up and figure out what tyranny actually is.

[smw358]

No SILLY!

The USA!

And that rock isnt in my pocket, its in my shoe - it really helps to anger the hell out of me which helps repel people away from asking me stupid face-to-face questions.:D
So let me get this right....a person who walks around with rocks in his shoes and who is pi$$ed off is going to team up with the USA to invade Texas and steal it's oil..........;) Right?..........:D ROFLMAO!

[HUM398]

Sorry should have been more clear, I'm not arguing against you I got that you weren't for secession. Killing is illegal because a person has a right to their own life. To have a claim to tyranny the government must be in someone stomping on those rights. We don't have that now, but I do agree with you that term limits are good ideas, and that lobbyists are more powerful than the minority right now, but these still don't come close to rights. A minority doesn't necessarily have the right to be powerful, and a congressman continually elected is still done so by the people so it's no where near tyranny. Sure I agree with you that there needs to be big change, my only point is that people shouting secession due to "tyranny" need to shut the hell up and figure out what tyranny actually is.

See that is all about perspective...

The minority doesn't have a right to power, but protection... The moment the power is attained to silence the voice of the minority Government has grown to strong. The Will of the Majority has the right to rule, but not infringe on the rights of the minority. This pushing of policies in the name of "not wasting a good crisis" is utter and total abuse of power. The fact that discussion was not had on the original Obama stimulus is only one example of the abuse of power.

Fear is a great source of power when attempting to push agendas...

The thing that grieves me the most is that Lobbyist and self ambition have grown superior to the rule of law and liberity.....

let me ask you something... Is it better to stop potential tyranny, or to wait tell its already happened?

The road to hell is paved with good intention, it only takes a few corrupt men to convince you it is the best interest of our nation....

[BDB]

See that is all about perspective...

The minority doesn't have a right to power, but protection... .

like protection from having their rights being taken away?....like....wire-tapping?

[DragonWatcher]

See that is all about perspective...

The minority doesn't have a right to power, but protection... The moment the power is attained to silence the voice of the minority Government has grown to strong. The Will of the Majority has the right to rule, but not infringe on the rights of the minority. This pushing of policies in the name of "not wasting a good crisis" is utter and total abuse of power. The fact that discussion was not had on the original Obama stimulus is only one example of the abuse of power.

Fear is a great source of power when attempting to push agendas...

The thing that grieves me the most is that Lobbyist and self ambition have grown superior to the rule of law and liberity.....

let me ask you something... Is it better to stop potential tyranny, or to wait tell its already happened?

The road to hell is paved with good intention, it only takes a few corrupt men to convince you it is the best interest of our nation....

I agree that the minority has a right to protection but where has that right been trampled on? I'll agree pushing agenda on the basis of "crisis time" is an ugly thing. I don't think it's an abuse of power but it's certainly not a good way to pass good legislation. The lack of discussion on the original stimulus though wasn't an abuse of power. The democrats have a big enough majority to pass what they want, therefor so long as their legislation doesn't trample on any constitutional right of the minority, nor commit illegal activities, which so far it hasn't there are no abuses of power. The minority has a voice currently, it's just a very weak one due to the proportional size of the country they represent. Their congressmen are still in power so we are still miles away from any sight of tyranny. If democrats try and do any type of gun ban I'll be the first to say they're acting in an unconstitutional manner and trampling on citizens rights, but so far we've got nothing that is close to trampling.

I actually wouldn't stop it before, because how do you know it's going to tyranny? Until something unconstitutional/illegal occurs you have no cause to stop a duly elected official from doing what the constitution grants him the power to do. Now would I stop someone like Hitler on his rise to power? Of course, but he threw germany's constitution and rights out the window on his way up.

[cajun]

If Texas did secede would they still be in the Big 12?...:cool:

[HUM398]

like protection from having their rights being taken away?....like....wire-tapping?

Sure.

Which rights are those?

I have difficulty with the right to privacy... if you are plotting treason, is it your right to do so?

it really comes down to figuring it out for our day and age... is a Phone conversation the same thing as a written letter...or possessions within your home?

In reality, i believe if you have probable cause to believe evil is being plotted...the Government has an obligation to the people to ensure it does not happen.

Its a tough one, but i tend to side more with the liberal minded then my fellow conservatives...but just a bit.

[BDB]

Sure.

Which rights are those?

I have difficulty with the right to privacy... if you are plotting treason, is it your right to do so?

it really comes down to figuring it out for our day and age... is a Phone conversation the same thing as a written letter...or possessions within your home?

In reality, i believe if you have probable cause to believe evil is being plotted...the Government has an obligation to the people to ensure it does not happen.

Its a tough one, but i tend to side more with the liberal minded then my fellow conservatives...but just a bit.

hum...for real.... that's ******* scary that you think that way...

[HUM398]

hum...for real.... that's ******* scary that you think that way...

What way is that?


I am at a philosophical and moral quarrel with myself.

I am not so sure why that is so scary....

I do not like wire taps, but im not so sure they violate any freedoms...

What constitutes as privacy?

[BDB]

What way is that?


I am at a philosophical and moral quarrel with myself.

I am not so sure why that is so scary....

I do not like wire taps, but im not so sure they violate any freedoms...

What constitutes as privacy?

the opposite of public. obviously what i say here can be read by the government because this is a public forum, what i say while standing on a soap box can too, because it's a public forum. but my private conversations are just that, private.

i don't understand the fear that yall have with the outside world. i know it's an ugly place, and i know bad things can and do happen all the time, but our JUSTICE system is based off of the innocent until proven guilty montra. i except wire-tapping and illegal search and seizure in mexico or honduras, but not by the U.S....

[hoo2ers]

If Texas did secede would they still be in the Big 12?...:cool:

Bigger question. If Texas did secede, would all the Louisianna folks move back there in order to keep their Gov't gravy train flowing??

[Firebird]

the opposite of public. obviously what i say here can be read by the government because this is a public forum, what i say while standing on a soap box can too, because it's a public forum. but my private conversations are just that, private.

i don't understand the fear that yall have with the outside world. i know it's an ugly place, and i know bad things can and do happen all the time, but our JUSTICE system is based off of the innocent until proven guilty montra. i except wire-tapping and illegal search and seizure in mexico or honduras, but not by the U.S....

It's not illegal there....;)

[Firebird]

Sure.

Which rights are those?

I have difficulty with the right to privacy... if you are plotting treason, is it your right to do so?

it really comes down to figuring it out for our day and age... is a Phone conversation the same thing as a written letter...or possessions within your home?

In reality, i believe if you have probable cause to believe evil is being plotted...the Government has an obligation to the people to ensure it does not happen.

Its a tough one, but i tend to side more with the liberal minded then my fellow conservatives...but just a bit.

Good to know that you support the right to privacy to plot email inside your home or via the U.S. mail....:rolleyes:

[HUM398]

Good to know that you support the right to privacy to plot email inside your home or via the U.S. mail....:rolleyes:

it was a question...not a stance.

[Mong Hu]

When I heard this start coming up a little bit this past week I was really interested to see what would come up on the board. It was a hard week not reading what all you folks had to say about the goings on in our world. I enjoy all your thoughts very much. I am still thinking about this one and some of the thoughts that have been posted to date but it has been good to read the thread.

[mojotrain]

When I heard this start coming up a little bit this past week I was really interested to see what would come up on the board. It was a hard week not reading what all you folks had to say about the goings on in our world. I enjoy all your thoughts very much. I am still thinking about this one and some of the thoughts that have been posted to date but it has been good to read the thread.

Some of these blisters have a think tank at becon call just down the hall so replys are swift. Take your time.

[tayb]

Sure.

Which rights are those?

I have difficulty with the right to privacy... if you are plotting treason, is it your right to do so?

it really comes down to figuring it out for our day and age... is a Phone conversation the same thing as a written letter...or possessions within your home?

In reality, i believe if you have probable cause to believe evil is being plotted...the Government has an obligation to the people to ensure it does not happen.

Its a tough one, but i tend to side more with the liberal minded then my fellow conservatives...but just a bit.

Probable Cause: Walking in an airport.

Probable Cause: Calling someone who is in a foreign country.

Probable Cause: Sending an email to your friend.

I see what you mean.

[HUM398]

Probable Cause: Walking in an airport.

Probable Cause: Calling someone who is in a foreign country.

Probable Cause: Sending an email to your friend.

I see what you mean.

Yeah, because that is what i said.:rolleyes:

[tayb]

Yeah, because that is what i said.:rolleyes:

"In reality, i believe if you have probable cause to believe evil is being plotted...the Government has an obligation to the people to ensure it does not happen."

That is exactly what you said and I pointed out what is being deemed "probable cause" by the US government.

[HUM398]

"In reality, i believe if you have probable cause to believe evil is being plotted...the Government has an obligation to the people to ensure it does not happen."

That is exactly what you said and I pointed out what is being deemed "probable cause" by the US government.

No... that is your exaggeration of probable cause, which is typical from those wishing to make an exaggerated point....

[tayb]

No... that is your exaggeration of probable cause, which is typical from those wishing to make an exaggerated point....

No... it really isn't.

[HUM398]

No... it really isn't.

Yes...it really is.

Show me the U.S policy that says "Flag everyone that walks into an Airport, emails their friend, or uses their cell phone."

[BDB]

Yes...it really is.

Show me the U.S policy that says "Flag everyone that walks into an Airport, emails their friend, or uses their cell phone."

patriot act.

hmmm that was easy.

[HUM398]

patriot act.

hmmm that was easy.

hmmmm. again with the over exaggerations.

Their is certain guidelines they have to operate within....

It does not give them the liberty to just monitor anyone...although it is entirely to vague it does say in specific to terrorism.

[BDB]

hmmmm. again with the over exaggerations.

Their is certain guidelines they have to operate within....

It does not give them the liberty to just monitor anyone...although it is entirely to vague it does say in specific to terrorism.

you just summed up the patriot act

[HUM398]

you just summed up the patriot act

I will give you that. It is to vague, and it has been a major criticism of mine since the inception. I believe the powers should be undoubtedly defined, and give the citizens ways to arm themselves in the case that the Government were to abuse its power....which lets face, is likely given that big government is bad news.

[BDB]

I will give you that. It is to vague, and it has been a major criticism of mine since the inception. I believe the powers should be undoubtedly defined, and give the citizens ways to arm themselves in the case that the Government were to abuse its power....which lets face, is likely given that big government is bad news.

why are we arguein?

[the_phoenix612]

why are we arguein?

HUM can't help it.

He's programmed to fiercely contest anything that even remotely resembles liberalism.

[Dawg Fan]

irony....this place is ate up with it;)

[HUM398]

HUM can't help it.

He's programmed to fiercely contest anything that even remotely resembles liberalism.


are you programmed to spew MSNBC talking points?


I wasn't arguning with Prez.... i was agreeing with him on a portion of the discussion. Unlike many people on this board, i am capable of recognizing valid truths as it relates to the topic at hand.

1. I understand the purpose of the Patriot Act.

2. I do not buy into the right to privacy argument.

3. I think that prez is right, the Patriot act is to vague....doesn't do enough to protect the personal rights of Americans...and doesn't arm the civilian population with a way to combat corruption of Government use.

I can see the liberal stand against it in regards to a possible violation of rights....i do not buy that we need to dump it, but reform it.

[BDB]

are you programmed to spew MSNBC talking points?


I wasn't arguning with Prez.... i was agreeing with him on a portion of the discussion. Unlike many people on this board, i am capable of recognizing valid truths as it relates to the topic at hand.

1. I understand the purpose of the Patriot Act.

2. I do not buy into the right to privacy argument.

3. I think that prez is right, the Patriot act is to vague....doesn't do enough to protect the personal rights of Americans...and doesn't arm the civilian population with a way to combat corruption of Government use.

I can see the liberal stand against it in regards to a possible violation of rights....i do not buy that we need to dump it, but reform it.

yea, my comment was sarcastic. glad you caught it

[LionVarsityCheer]

I will give you that. It is to vague, and it has been a major criticism of mine since the inception. I believe the powers should be undoubtedly defined, and give the citizens ways to arm themselves in the case that the Government were to abuse its power....which lets face, is likely given that big government is bad news.

Although the patriot act has certain limitations to it, the law enforcement can search anything they want if they have reason to believe it is "terroristic activity" or suspicious of terroristic activity. The limitations, vague as they are, are not limitations at all. As was stated before, they can label talking on a cell phone while eating a raisin bagel as suspicious activity. Its ridiculous what liberties are being trampled by this.

[the_phoenix612]

Although the patriot act has certain limitations to it, the law enforcement can search anything they want if they have reason to believe it is "terroristic activity" or suspicious of terroristic activity. The limitations, vague as they are, are not limitations at all. As was stated before, they can label talking on a cell phone while eating a raisin bagel as suspicious activity. Its ridiculous what liberties are being trampled by this.

Piss off the FBI, all of a sudden you're an enemy combatant.

Goodbye life.

[The King]

Although my whole life I grew up a strong and proud American citizen, times are starting to change. With the tax plans that will be taking place, the increased size in government, country debt, problems and questions with Obama and his association, etc. I now believe secession may be an idea to consider. In Texas have the Houston ship channel (one of the largest ports in the US), we are the nations state leader in oil production, we have a ton of military bases in the austin/dallas/fortworth/hill country area, we are extremely large, we are fairly independant already, we have one of the worlds best hospitals and cancer centers, etc. which all give us a great edge in starting the Republic of Texas back up again. If the US wanted to keep control of NASA, their military bases, have cheap access to our oil, and have access to the ship channel and all the other major ports in Texas then they would be forced to be a huge ally with the Republic of Texas (this would include full backup in any military conflicts or we could cut them off completely which would be devestating to the US economy). There are many other reasons we would do just fine, and many other reasons we should consider leaving the Union. For now it's only an idea, but anindeed idea Rick Perry has infact mentioned and is now beginning to look more strongly into. Not sure where this is going to bring us, but whatever ends up happening, God Bless Texas!

sucession would not hurt my feeleings

[LionVarsityCheer]

Piss off the FBI, all of a sudden you're an enemy combatant.

Goodbye life.


yea. something of the sort. My government teacher last semester was jokin about how he wanted all of his students, at the same time, to send eachother emails about bombs and chemical equations and mutiny. He said they'd have SWAT/FBI/CIA etc. here in 10 minutes.

[the_phoenix612]

sucession would not hurt my feeleings

sEcession.

feelings.

[pack75]

For the individuals that answered Yes to this poll...how about moving here, it would be a great start for you...plenty of space! ;) :D


http://www.cjsatomicdiner.org/keys/key-08210005.jpg

[BDB]

yea. something of the sort. My government teacher last semester was jokin about how he wanted all of his students, at the same time, to send eachother emails about bombs and chemical equations and mutiny. He said they'd have SWAT/FBI/CIA etc. here in 10 minutes.

you won't.... you won't do it....

[LionVarsityCheer]

watch me prezzyyyy
:cool::ninja:

[BDB]

watch me prezzyyyy
:cool::ninja:

prezzyyy?.... i'm not sure i'm a fan of that nickname... :p

[LionVarsityCheer]

me either. I immediately regretted it. however, I hate to edit my posts. only when I have grammatical errors.

[Dawg Fan]

Although the patriot act has certain limitations to it, the law enforcement can search anything they want if they have reason to believe it is "terroristic activity" or suspicious of terroristic activity. The limitations, vague as they are, are not limitations at all. As was stated before, they can label talking on a cell phone while eating a raisin bagel as suspicious activity. Its ridiculous what liberties are being trampled by this.

and yet you would be right there blaming the Government if one of your relatives was on a plane hijacked by terrorists....you can't have it both ways.

I fly all the time and talk on my cell phone in the airport and not ONCE have I ever had any problems. What liberties have you personally had trampled on by the government? People want to be protected and safe at all times yet don't want to deal with the things that are being done to protect them. You have more liberties here than just about anywhere else in the world.

[BDB]

me either. I immediately regretted it. however, I hate to edit my posts. only when I have grammatical errors.

HAHA! thanks for the laugh.

[LionVarsityCheer]

and yet you would be right there blaming the Government if one of your relatives was on a plane hijacked by terrorists....you can't have it both ways.

I fly all the time and talk on my cell phone in the airport and not ONCE have I ever had any problems. What liberties have you personally had trampled on by the government? People want to be protected and safe at all times yet don't want to deal with the things that are being done to protect them. You have more liberties here than just about anywhere else in the world.

Who are you to say I would be complaining to the government about that? My dad, if he had taken the job in new york, would have been in the towers. Do I think it's the government's fault? no. I think it's the Lord's call. I'm not trying to turn this into a religious debate, I was just commenting on what I believe is a faulty act. I don't believe in having it both ways, I believe in having moderation and I believe the patriot act borders on unreasonable search and seizure.

[BDB]

Who are you to say I would be complaining to the government about that? My dad, if he had taken the job in new york, would have been in the towers. Do I think it's the government's fault? no. I think it's the Lord's call. I'm not trying to turn this into a religious debate, I was just commenting on what I believe is a faulty act. I don't believe in having it both ways, I believe in having moderation and I believe the patriot act borders on unreasonable search and seizure.

this is why i wish you posted more.

[LionVarsityCheer]

But, to clarify, what I'm referring to in regards to the patriot act is not homeland security. I'm talking about other minor infractions not dealing with treason or terrorism

[DragonWatcher]

and yet you would be right there blaming the Government if one of your relatives was on a plane hijacked by terrorists....you can't have it both ways.

I fly all the time and talk on my cell phone in the airport and not ONCE have I ever had any problems. What liberties have you personally had trampled on by the government? People want to be protected and safe at all times yet don't want to deal with the things that are being done to protect them. You have more liberties here than just about anywhere else in the world.

No I wouldn't blame the government, and only crazy idiots do for 9/11 with half@$$ conspiracy theories. I would blame the terrorists who committed the act. There has been, and always will be evil people in the world who do atrocious things. You can't ever get rid of that, and you certainly cant ever protect yourself fully from it. Getting rid of your RIGHT, whether the government infringes upon it that moment or later is against everything this country stands for. Rights aren't there for when it's convient, they are absolute. This doesn't just include the right to search and seizure and probable cause, but includes the right to life, freedom of religion and gun ownership.

[LionVarsityCheer]

Rights aren't there for when it's convient, they are absolute. This doesn't just include the right to search and seizure and probable cause, but includes the right to life, freedom of religion and gun ownership.

you're :Censor: right.

[Dawg Fan]

Who are you to say I would be complaining to the government about that? My dad, if he had taken the job in new york, would have been in the towers. Do I think it's the government's fault? no. I think it's the Lord's call. I'm not trying to turn this into a religious debate, I was just commenting on what I believe is a faulty act. I don't believe in having it both ways, I believe in having moderation and I believe the patriot act borders on unreasonable search and seizure.

I just think that unless someone else can come up with a plan that will work as good as this one has on keeping terrorists attacks off our shores then by all means lets see it. I don't see all those liberties being trampled. There will always be examples of unreasonable search but that has been going on for much longer than the patriot act has been around. I myself would rather be safe understanding that a few sacrifices on my part have to be given to achieve that safety. There will never be a plan that everyone will agree on.....ever.

[BDB]

I just think that unless someone else can come up with a plan that will work as good as this one has on keeping terrorists attacks off our shores then by all means lets see it. I don't see all those liberties being trampled. There will always be examples of unreasonable search but that has been going on for much longer than the patriot act has been around. I myself would rather be safe understanding that a few sacrifices on my part have to be given to achieve that safety. There will never be a plan that everyone will agree on.....ever.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_zu-DKjmLnoA/SGktROv1sYI/AAAAAAAACac/jbEfx3y4zz8/s400/horham+bomb+shelter+inside.jpg

then stay here...... no one can hurt you here.... unless your right brain goes to war with the left....better put a wall between them.... but what if your left brain tells your right arm to bash your right brain?!?!?! OOOOH NOOOO!!!!!

:rolleyes:

[Dawg Fan]

No I wouldn't blame the government, and only crazy idiots do for 9/11 with half@$$ conspiracy theories. I would blame the terrorists who committed the act. There has been, and always will be evil people in the world who do atrocious things. You can't ever get rid of that, and you certainly cant ever protect yourself fully from it. Getting rid of your RIGHT, whether the government infringes upon it that moment or later is against everything this country stands for. Rights aren't there for when it's convient, they are absolute. This doesn't just include the right to search and seizure and probable cause, but includes the right to life, freedom of religion and gun ownership.

perhaps I should have expanded my explanation about blaming the government. My point is people would blame the government for not doing enough to keep our flights safe if they didn't have the protocols in place that they now have as being part of the patriot act. I don't see where they are taking away my right to own a gun or my freedom of choice on religion.

[Dawg Fan]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_zu-DKjmLnoA/SGktROv1sYI/AAAAAAAACac/jbEfx3y4zz8/s400/horham+bomb+shelter+inside.jpg

then stay here...... no one can hurt you here.... unless your right brain goes to war with the left....better put a wall between them.... but what if your left brain tells your right arm to bash your right brain?!?!?! OOOOH NOOOO!!!!!

:rolleyes:




No one is hurting me now goofball and I don't have a problem with the way things are done with the patriot act. Don't like it, run for office and get it changed. You don't have any answers, just stupid attempts at humor.:rolleyes:

[BDB]

No one is hurting me now goofball and I don't have a problem with the way things are done with the patriot act. Don't like it, run for office and get it changed. You don't have any answers, just stupid attempts at humor.:rolleyes:


yea, i really dont care. i'm in a red state, my opinion doesn't matter.

[LionVarsityCheer]

yea, i really dont care. i'm in a red state, my opinion doesn't matter.

you never know, red may be a good color for you :D

[JagFan]

Those that are concerned about civil liberties being violated just wait. What do you think will happen when Obama gives us universal health care? Read Daschele(sp) book that Obama wants to use as a guide. You will have bureaucrats in DC making decisions about your health care and what doctor to see. What about the government taking over the banks. What about Gm going into bankruptcy and the unions will run. Want to be told what car to drive?

Take a close look at the state of California. Take a close look at universal health care in Mass. My sister had to wait 9 months for a physical and to follow the law and sign up with a GP. And she works at Mass General. My nephew needed shoulder surgery. Three month wait.

I will agree that and have said that the Patriot Act needs redoing. But these programs that you all voted for will strip a heck of a lot more civil liberties than the Patriot Act.

No agrument from me just advice that you need to really look and see what is happening instead of arguing about things in the past. You all better start looking at the future.

[DragonWatcher]

I don't see where they are taking away my right to own a gun or my freedom of choice on religion.

That's because they aren't. If they tried to I'd imagine you'd be pretty pissed even if you kept your gun much as you had before, just because now the gov had the right to take it away whenever they wanted for whatever reason. That's the funny thing about rights, you can't just protect the ones you like, because otherwise you go down the slippery slope to losing them all.

[yallerjacket2]

Those that are concerned about civil liberties being violated just wait. What do you think will happen when Obama gives us universal health care? Read Daschele(sp) book that Obama wants to use as a guide. You will have bureaucrats in DC making decisions about your health care and what doctor to see. What about the government taking over the banks. What about Gm going into bankruptcy and the unions will run. Want to be told what car to drive?

Take a close look at the state of California. Take a close look at universal health care in Mass. My sister had to wait 9 months for a physical and to follow the law and sign up with a GP. And she works at Mass General. My nephew needed shoulder surgery. Three month wait.

I will agree that and have said that the Patriot Act needs redoing. But these programs that you all voted for will strip a heck of a lot more civil liberties than the Patriot Act.

No agrument from me just advice that you need to really look and see what is happening instead of arguing about things in the past. You all better start looking at the future.

Isn't it better to have to wait for services than to not have them at all? I don't want to argue about who's gonna pay for it and all that crap. I just always hear people talk about how bad medical services are with universal health care. Seems like having crappy government insurance would be better than having no insurance. Now, if the government told me I had to use their insurance, I would have a big problem with that. I just don't think that's what Obama has proposed.

[AE 8008]

and yet you would be right there blaming the Government if one of your relatives was on a plane hijacked by terrorists....you can't have it both ways.



unless you're a bisexual

[JagFan]

Isn't it better to have to wait for services than to not have them at all? I don't want to argue about who's gonna pay for it and all that crap. I just always hear people talk about how bad medical services are with universal health care. Seems like having crappy government insurance would be better than having no insurance. Now, if the government told me I had to use their insurance, I would have a big problem with that. I just don't think that's what Obama has proposed.

I hope you are right about the not being told what insurance. I know the problem in Massachusetts is that doctors are leaving because they cannot make enough to live. Their malpractice insurance is so high and what they get paid by the state is not enough. I really want a lot more details than what Obama is putting out. I am open to see what they say. I know what I pay each month for our health insurance and what the insurance pays out. It is very frustrating. My point is to keep an eye out on what the government is doing and read it. I too have some problems with what the Bush administration did as far as growing the government. Fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me.

Just keep up with all the new programs and find out what it really means to you. That is all I am trying to say. No arguments from me.

[Oak_panthers]

Well if Texas were to secede here's a few things we have that would be benificial:

1. NASA is just south of Houston, Texas. (We will control the space industry.)

2. We refine over 85% of the gasoline in the United States.

3. Defense Industry. (We have over 65% of it) The term "Don’t mess with Texas," will take on a whole new meaning.

4. Oil - we can supply all the oil that the Republic of Texas will need for the next 300 years. Yankee states? Sorry about that.

5. Natural Gas - Again we have all we need and it's too bad about those northern states. John Kerry will figure a way to keep them warm....

6. Computer Industry - we currently lead the nation in producing computer chips and communications: Small places like Texas Instruments, Dell Computer, EDS, Raytheon, National Semiconductor, Motorola, Intel, AMD, Atmel, Applied Materials, Ball Semiconductor, Dallas Semiconductor, Delphi, Nortel, Alcatel, Etc, Etc. The list goes on and on.

7. Health Centers - We have the largest research centers for Cancer research, the best burn centers and the top trauma units in the world and other large health planning centers.

8. We have enough colleges to keep us going: UT Texas, A&M, Texas Tech, Rice, SMU, University of Houston, Baylor, UNT, Texas Women's University, Ivy grows better in the south anyway

9. We have a ready supply of workers. (Just open the border when we need some)

10. We have control of the paper industry, plastics, insurance, etc.

11. In case of a foreign invasion, we have the Texas National Guard and the Texas Air National Guard. We don't have an army but since everybody down here has at least six rifles and a pile of ammo, we can raise an army in 24 hours if we need it. If the situation really gets bad, we can always call Department of Public Safety and ask them to send over a couple Texas Rangers.

12. We are totally self sufficient in beef, poultry, hogs and several types of grain, fruit and vegetables and lets not forget seafood from the gulf. And everybody down here knows how to cook them so that they taste good. Don't need any food.


Some of the things are stupid, i copied this from a chain letter I recieved the other day, but most of it makes a valid point.

[LionVarsityCheer]

9. We have a ready supply of workers. (Just open the border when we need some)


Hahah thats terrible. but funny.

[Firebird]

Some of you operate under the assumption that if Texas decided to try such a stunt, the U.S. government would simply throw its hands up and let us keep Ft. Hood and the SA Air Bases, the NASA station, etc.

Of course, they can't actually move the land or the physical plant, but said federal facilities would be stripped bare and likely rendered useless.

You also assume that national companies headquartered in Texas would want to remain headquartered here rather than move to another tax and business friendly state in the rest of the U.S.

Both, IMHO, are pretty stoopid assumptions.

[LionVarsityCheer]

IDK about anyone else, but I just like to play what if... No one, in their right mind, would really and truly believe that Texas seceeding from the union is a good idea. BUT! Pretending us Texans could seceed and create an incredible Republic without the help of the good ole' USA is fun. Not that Texas isn't incredible in the first place..

[HUM398]

Some of you operate under the assumption that if Texas decided to try such a stunt, the U.S. government would simply throw its hands up and let us keep Ft. Hood and the SA Air Bases, the NASA station, etc.

Of course, they can't actually move the land or the physical plant, but said federal facilities would be stripped bare and likely rendered useless.

You also assume that national companies headquartered in Texas would want to remain headquartered here rather than move to another tax and business friendly state in the rest of the U.S.

Both, IMHO, are pretty stoopid assumptions.

They are stupid assumptions.

In reference to business, i would imagine that a Texas Government would be more business friendly then a Union Texas is trying to secede from....So i can see the Companies staying in Texas if these ultra-if it were to ever actually occur....

[Firebird]

They are stupid assumptions.

In reference to business, i would imagine that a Texas Government would be more business friendly then a Union Texas is trying to secede from....So i can see the Companies staying in Texas if these ultra-if it were to ever actually occur....

I think a lot of that would have to do with where their major markets are located (a safe assumption that would be the rest of the U.S.), and what kind of relationship, economical and otherwise, the new nation would have with the U.S. My bet would be that any seccession would be unfriendly.

You'd also have to consider how many Yankee immigrants to Texas work at those types of companies, especially in the upper ranks. I think it is a stretch to assume that they would want to stay here.

[DrEdward]

I'm telling you, the third time may be the charm. :rolleyes:

[bigtexx]

come and take it

[the_phoenix612]

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/04/messing-with-texas.html

[slcdragonfan]

no, but we could use a new governor.

[slcdragonfan]

Well as a human being i have a right to overthrow my Government if it becomes oppressive....and in this case they may believe it to be so. now, i don't believe in Session...but activism.

simply because you do not recognize the legitimate threat that comes from absolute majority rule however, doesn't mean those asking about secession are irrational..... or in the moral wrong....They are in fact practicing a moral right.

It may upset you, but it is perfectly fine from them to express their opinion despite your stand against it.


A Government power derives from the people, Majority and Minority... 1. The moment a Democracy (which for some reason or another unknown to me is synonymous these days with Republic) fails to protect the Minority...it becomes Tyrannical...it is the direction i believe we are headed. 2. Now i believe this country is more split then it has been since the 1860's...With that, the party of power was voted in...Which means the Majority will rule, but must realize it is not an absolute rule......3. Its "We won...We do what we want" attitude in Washington DC right now... and that is whats wrong.

You say Secession isn't a right, i believe that people have a certain unalienable right...4. IF the state of Texas as a whole votes to Overthrow the U.S claiming tyranny..Then who are you to propose it a moral wrong? Now the Government has a certain right to fight for what they believe as do the people of this state...Now, i am in no way condoning Secession...i love this country....i much rather fix it, then overthrow it..... 5. But the right to take the Government and trash it is a essential and unalienable right granted to us by our Creator. No Government would logically put it in their law in so many words, but the Founding fathers gave us the tools to do so if this Democratic-Republic turned into a Tyrannical oppressive machine.

Wow. Just wow. There are so many things wrong with that.

1. To what Minority do you refer?
2. Do you believe this country is more split now than when VietNam occurred? The Great Society debates? The race riots in Watts, etc?
3. How is that attitude any different than what we witnessed in the past 16 years with the Republican Congress? and with the Republican President?
4. Wasn't that settled in 1865?
5. Our CREATOR gave us the right to overthrow our government? Exactly where is that in the Bible?

Is everybody going nuts? What is happening in Washington is not the end of the world. Think about the changes that have been made, without the hyperbole, and you will see that many of them are good for you and your children/family. Talk of changing the student loan program to go directly to the student is a good thing. Talk of changing credit card policies is a good thing. We DO need change in both our healthcare and pension systems, did your 401K get trashed and was it your primary retirement source? Talk of eliminating torture is a good thing. And I voted for McCain by the way.

[slcdragonfan]

See that is all about perspective...

The minority doesn't have a right to power, but protection... The moment the power is attained to silence the voice of the minority Government has grown to strong. The Will of the Majority has the right to rule, but not infringe on the rights of the minority. This pushing of policies in the name of "not wasting a good crisis" is utter and total abuse of power. The fact that discussion was not had on the original Obama stimulus is only one example of the abuse of power.

Fear is a great source of power when attempting to push agendas...

The thing that grieves me the most is that Lobbyist and self ambition have grown superior to the rule of law and liberity.....

let me ask you something... Is it better to stop potential tyranny, or to wait tell its already happened?

The road to hell is paved with good intention, it only takes a few corrupt men to convince you it is the best interest of our nation....

Were you complaining when the Patriot Act was passed? Because it trampled many more rights than have been tramped in the past 100 days. AND, who started this payout business in the first place, and under whose watch did it occur?

However, I agree with you regarding the Lobby impact and the use of fear. But I hear a different call in your words than peaceful solutions. Hope I am wrong.

[15Adragon]

no, but we could use a new governor.

He is on the comeback trail after a few so so years.

[slcdragonfan]

He is on the comeback trail after a few so so years.

He is reminiscent of the other idiot governor we had who, when hearing that scuba-diving when pregnant could cause a miscarriage stated that 'lo and behold we had found another form of abortion! :eek::rolleyes:

Anyway, the governor in Texas doesn't really do anything, unless the Texas constitution was amended while I was in Okieland. Thank goodness they are relatively harmless.

[BDB]

Were you complaining when the Patriot Act was passed? Because it trampled many more rights than have been tramped in the past 100 days. AND, who started this payout business in the first place, and under whose watch did it occur?

However, I agree with you regarding the Lobby impact and the use of fear. But I hear a different call in your words than peaceful solutions. Hope I am wrong.

i learned to shut up. no way in hell you're gonna get your point across in texas.

[Oak_panthers]

i learned to shut up. no way in hell you're gonna get your point across in texas.

Amen!

[Pinion]

I didnt bother to read all the posts here. I care, I just am not in a reading mood right now. Or not on this topic anyway.

But yeah, I think it's a wonderful idea for Texas to seceed. For Texas it's a win-win. If Texas were to seceed the people that are here screwing it up would most GTFO. Plus, Texas could do it's own thing without having to worry about the nastynice crowd from without trying to push their noses into Texas business.
I mean, I'm not a Texan. I consider it an honor that I'm allowed to stay. I'm sure there are those that would rather me be somewhere else.. But for the most part, I've come to appreciate Texas, Texans, and the women here.

As a fan of doing what's right, I feel like every state should have the option to GTFO of the USA if the majority of the voters in that state vote to do so. If any state wants to leave the Union, they should have the right to put it before the voters and get out if thats what the voters want. Anything less than that, to me, should be unacceptable.

And above anything else, states have left the Union before and they could do it again. Rolling over and just taking it should never be an option.