Mr Obama...Re: OUR Citigroup investment...

[mad_fan]

So Mr Prez...the Black one...not the Mexican...
I understand WE are considering converting OUR preferred stock investment in Citigroup to Common Stock...
...
We invested $45 Billion of Citigroup Preferred...
...
Converted to 40% of the Common equity...
At todays closing market capitalization…of $11.7 Billion…
...40% of $11.7 Billion…$4.68 Billion…
...
That’s about a NEGATIVE 90% on OUR investment…
...
Is this really how dumb Washington is???:confused:

[dragons08]

Probably dumber.

[smw358]

So Mr Prez...the Black one...not the Mexican...
I understand WE are considering converting OUR preferred stock investment in Citigroup to Common Stock...
...
We invested $45 Billion of Citigroup Preferred...
...
Converted to 40% of the Common equity...
At todays closing market capitalization…of $11.7 Billion…
...40% of $11.7 Billion…$4.68 Billion…
...
That’s about a NEGATIVE 90% on OUR investment…
...
Is this really how dumb Washington is???:confused:


How do you destroy a country? Bankrupt it. Promise the people everything. You have to be a good orator though......like Obama....yo mama! ;) Heil!

[pied]

**** citi

[mad_fan]

**** citi

:rolleyes:...

[pied]

:rolleyes:...

If they go belly up, what happens to the pension plans?

[mad_fan]

If they go belly up, what happens to the pension plans?

I'm sure another government agency...the PBGC...will step in...and pay 10 cents on the dollar...

[pied]

I'm sure another government agency...the PBGC...will step in...and pay 10 cents on the dollar...

pied needs to make a call tomorrow

[mad_fan]

pied needs to make a call tomorrow

It could be worse...
If you were an executive they might want some back...:eek:

[cyfallsbooster2]

So Mr Prez...the Black one...not the Mexican...
I understand WE are considering converting OUR preferred stock investment in Citigroup to Common Stock...
...
We invested $45 Billion of Citigroup Preferred...
...
Converted to 40% of the Common equity...
At todays closing market capitalization…of $11.7 Billion…
...40% of $11.7 Billion…$4.68 Billion…
...
That’s about a NEGATIVE 90% on OUR investment…
...
Is this really how dumb Washington is???:confused:

Have the socialists (dems) ever rolled any other way?

[dragons08]

We can just print more money!

[pied]

Have the socialists (dems) ever rolled any other way?


Bush did the first bailout and the laatest Nationalization talks started w/Republican Senators last week.

[drgnbkr]

Bush did the first bailout and the laatest Nationalization talks started w/Republican Senators last week.

Bush actually had a stimulus plan...the Dems/congress/messiah made it a porkfest which every rep but the 3 rinos voted against.

[pied]

Bush actually had a stimulus plan...the Dems/congress/messiah made it a porkfest which every rep but the 3 rinos voted against.


Your timeline is off. Citi/BoA first got a ton of money at the end of '08. The porkulus is also separate from the Nationalization talks.

[DrEdward]

Bush did the first bailout and the laatest Nationalization talks started w/Republican Senators last week.

Well sort of, as an alternative to continue to simply toss funds in the directions of these large banking institutions, we could at least take an ownership position in them with an outside chance of getting the principle back at some point. However, trading the preferred stock for common which results in a substantial dimunition of the value of we "cowards" investment portfolio right off the bat seems to be a less than prudent financial strategy.

[pied]

Not going to disagree w/you. I'll be honest, that type of corpoprate finance is above my paygrade.

[smw358]

We can just print more money!


We could write a check ....like in the Jeff Foxworthy joke when the car tow truck driver came to repossses his car. He asked him can you make a payment......no I do not have any mon.......can you write a check? CHECK! why heck I just pay the whole thing off! :D

[CyFallsMom]

If they go belly up, what happens to the pension plans?

Same thing that happened to my Enron pension - turns to stone.

[CyFallsMom]

How do you destroy a country? Bankrupt it. Promise the people everything. You have to be a good orator though......like Obama....yo mama! ;) Heil!

Well, Obama is doing his best to make that happen. When he starts goose stepping, we'll know it's complete. But, those of us who are able to look above and beyond this moron knew that putting him with the other poisons (Pelosi and company) would not bode well. All of his flock just wanted to see a black man up on that podium on Inauguration Day. It's okay for a black, brown or any color American to be up there but this was the WRONG man in all aspects. I knew it, many of you knew it - guess that kool-aid was just too strong for many of the weaklings out there who want everything paid for them while we keep going to work to pay for it.

[pied]

So Mr Prez...the Black one...not the Mexican...
I understand WE are considering converting OUR preferred stock investment in Citigroup to Common Stock...
...
We invested $45 Billion of Citigroup Preferred...
...
Converted to 40% of the Common equity...
At todays closing market capitalization…of $11.7 Billion…
...40% of $11.7 Billion…$4.68 Billion…
...
That’s about a NEGATIVE 90% on OUR investment…
...
Is this really how dumb Washington is???:confused:

Update:


NEW YORK (AP) -- The Treasury Department said Monday it will begin selling the stake it owns in Citigroup Inc., which could result in a profit of more than $8 billion.
The government received 7.7 billion shares of Citigroup in exchange for $25 billion it gave the bank during the 2008 credit crisis. It said it will sell the shares over the course of this year, depending on market conditions.

Like any investor, the government likely will hold on to its shares if prices fall steeply. However, Citi shares have been rising steadily with the broader market in recent months, which means the Treasury Department stands to pocket a hefty profit.

Citi shares rose 8 cents to $4.39 in early trading Monday. The government would make about $8.8 billion in profit on its stake in Citigroup if it sells the stock for $4.39 a share.

The Treasury Department received its stock for a price of $3.25 a share last year.

Citi was one of the hardest-hit banks during the credit crisis and recession. It received a total of $45 billion in bailout money. Citi repaid the other $20 billion it owed the Treasury in December.

When Citigroup agreed to repay the $20 billion in loans it still owed the Treasury, the pair also agreed the Treasury would sell the common stock it owned in the New York bank throughout 2010.

The Treasury owns about 27 percent of Citigroup's outstanding stock, based on the number of shares that were outstanding on Jan. 31.

Even after it sells its stake in Citigroup, the Treasury Department still will hold warrants to purchase future shares in the bank.

The Treasury said Morgan Stanley will handle the sale of the shares.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/29/treasury-begin-selling-citi-shares/

[cougmantx]

Well, Obama is doing his best to make that happen. When he starts goose stepping, we'll know it's complete. But, those of us who are able to look above and beyond this moron knew that putting him with the other poisons (Pelosi and company) would not bode well. All of his flock just wanted to see a black man up on that podium on Inauguration Day. It's okay for a black, brown or any color American to be up there but this was the WRONG man in all aspects. I knew it, many of you knew it - guess that kool-aid was just too strong for many of the weaklings out there who want everything paid for them while we keep going to work to pay for it.

These kind of statements show the sort of ignorance that got this country in the position it's in.

I voted for him and I assure you I don't come close to resembling that remark in no way, shape or form. It's highly inflammatory, divisive and crass.

[the_phoenix612]

Update:




http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/29/treasury-begin-selling-citi-shares/
so 45 billion, but 20 already repaid. What does this do to madunderscorefan's percentages?

[Dawg Fan]

These kind of statements show the sort of ignorance that got this country in the position it's in.

I voted for him and I assure you I don't come close to resembling that remark in no way, shape or form. It's highly inflammatory, divisive and crass.

I find it highly ironic considering the fireballs you throw out here especially about republicans and Bush ..take your righteous indignation somewhere else please

[cougmantx]

I find it highly ironic considering the fireballs you throw out here especially about republicans and Bush ..take your righteous indignation somewhere else please

I'm afraid buddy I'm not going anywhere.

[Dawg Fan]

I'm afraid buddy I'm not going anywhere.

I don't want you to go away, I just find it funny you puff all up when folks criticize Obama and turn right around and do the exact same thing to Bush. Get real

[pied]

I don't want you to go away, I just find it funny you puff all up when folks criticize Obama and turn right around and do the exact same thing to Bush. Get real


I voted for Bush four times and Obama once.

[cougmantx]

My feelings about ex-President Bush are well documented. I make my arguments based on what I've learned and observed. It is my belief and I think most scholars beliefs, that the economic down turn is a direct result of policies enacted in Bush's eight year tenure. You disagree and that is fine.

In cyfallsmom's post it is stated that anyone voting for him drank the cool aid and lives off of those that work. I'm saying that is nonsense and it is offensive. I didn't take offense at what mad_fan posted. On the contrary it made me want to find out more but making irrational statements aimed at demeaning over 50 percent of the population that did vote for Obama needs to be called into account.

[slcdragonfan]

My feelings about ex-President Bush are well documented. I make my arguments based on what I've learned and observed. It is my belief and I think most scholars beliefs, that the economic down turn is a direct result of policies enacted in Bush's eight year tenure. You disagree and that is fine.

In cyfallsmom's post it is stated that anyone voting for him drank the cool aid and lives off of those that work. I'm saying that is nonsense and it is offensive. I didn't take offense at what mad_fan posted. On the contrary it made me want to find out more but making irrational statements aimed at demeaning over 50 percent of the population that did vote for Obama needs to be called into account.

Cougman, I like your TR quote so much I added a couple myself.:)

[cougmantx]

Cougman, I like your TR quote so much I added a couple myself.:)

I knew you would like that! He's a fascinating case study of the "true" middle ground this country can achieve. Bold, decisive and just. We couldn't ask for anything else. Besides, he was a man's, man! :notworthy

P.S. I should also add, a true visionary.

[RedRage00]

I don't want you to go away, I just find it funny you puff all up when folks criticize Obama and turn right around and do the exact same thing to Bush. Get real

He wasn't puffing up about her criticizing Obama. He was puffing up about her calling people Kool Aid drinkers for voting for Obama and that they want everything for free while she pays for it.

Pied voted for him. Cougmantx voted for him, and they seem to have jobs as far as I know so what she's saying is stupid ;)

I voted for Bush before. Damn, I wish I hadn't. I was a Bush Kool Aid drinker then. ;)

[pied]

He wasn't puffing up about her criticizing Obama. He was puffing up about her calling people Kool Aid drinkers for voting for Obama and that they want everything for free while she pays for it.

Pied voted for him. Cougmantx voted for him, and they seem to have jobs as far as I know so what she's saying is stupid ;)

I voted for Bush before. Damn, I wish I hadn't. I was a Bush Kool Aid drinker then. ;)

wut?

[cyfallsbooster2]

We are in trouble unless we demand our reps in the congress follow our desires.:cool:

[cougmantx]

We are in trouble unless we demand our reps in the congress follow our desires.:cool:

I agree with you whole heartedly on that but I would also remind folks that the majority of this country voted for Obama. Just as many of us suffered through what we thought were numerous mistakes made by the last administration, including enacting some of the most intrusive laws this country has seen. One of my biggest disappointments with Obama right now is that he hasn't started the process of repealing the Patriot Act even when reports of it's abuse surface regularly. Those of us (I don't happen to be one) that doesn't believe unlawful interceptions aren't happening daily are kidding themselves.

[Dawg Fan]

He wasn't puffing up about her criticizing Obama. He was puffing up about her calling people Kool Aid drinkers for voting for Obama and that they want everything for free while she pays for it.

Pied voted for him. Cougmantx voted for him, and they seem to have jobs as far as I know so what she's saying is stupid ;)

I voted for Bush before. Damn, I wish I hadn't. I was a Bush Kool Aid drinker then. ;)

I voted for Bush because there was really no alternative but I do like the man and get tired of all the bashing just like the dem's get tired of the Obama bashing. You can't have one without the other. No up without a down. I understand her frustration and also her right to say her feelings. My point wasn't whether she was right or wrong, just the hypocrisy of the righteous indignation thrown back at her. I know a lot of democrats that voted for Obama that would love to have a job BTW.

[Dawg Fan]

I agree with you whole heartedly on that but I would also remind folks that the majority of this country voted for Obama. Just as many of us suffered through what we thought were numerous mistakes made by the last administration, including enacting some of the most intrusive laws this country has seen. One of my biggest disappointments with Obama right now is that he hasn't started the process of repealing the Patriot Act even when reports of it's abuse surface regularly. Those of us (I don't happen to be one) that doesn't believe unlawful interceptions aren't happening daily are kidding themselves.

I am interested and not being a smart alek but how has the Patriot Act adversely affected you personally? I kinda like the fact that this country has not seen another terrorist attack since 9/11 and I believe the Patriot Act has everything to do with that. Are you saying or doing illegal acts that would cause you to be concerned? I myself am a law abiding citizen and really am not concerned about my actions and communications.

[E-Vol-ution]

Well, Obama is doing his best to make that happen. When he starts goose stepping, we'll know it's complete. But, those of us who are able to look above and beyond this moron knew that putting him with the other poisons (Pelosi and company) would not bode well. All of his flock just wanted to see a black man up on that podium on Inauguration Day. It's okay for a black, brown or any color American to be up there but this was the WRONG man in all aspects. I knew it, many of you knew it - guess that kool-aid was just too strong for many of the weaklings out there who want everything paid for them while we keep going to work to pay for it.

You sure are misinformed.....but you could remain quiet about it instead of making an ignorant statement like this one. Jeesh..............

[JagFan]

I am laughing really hard that everyone is geting all up in arms over a statement CyFallsMom made 6 weeks ago.

[cougmantx]

I am interested and not being a smart alek but how has the Patriot Act adversely affected you personally? I kinda like the fact that this country has not seen another terrorist attack since 9/11 and I believe the Patriot Act has everything to do with that. Are you saying or doing illegal acts that would cause you to be concerned? I myself am a law abiding citizen and really am not concerned about my actions and communications.

Here's my problem with the Patriot Act. First you must know that I have some experience with this as I was trained by the U.S. Navy to do some interceptions. I also worked on an Admirals staff where we were highly specialized in communications. I won't go into my job but if you look up the Walker spy case you will understand the ramifications of what happens when it all goes wrong. I did the same job and that particular case happened while I was serving in the Navy. Most of my old shipmates I worked with felt they should have all three faced a firing squad.

The Patriot Act dispensed with many of the checks and balances put in place to insure our Constitution was being upheld and the military or federal government were not spying on American citizens with undo cause. By removing the panel of judges (or judge) approval prior to surveillance commencing the oversight of interceptions was greatly diminished. Take the example of current financial meltdown. It didn't happen overnight. It happened because over years a series of laws meant to protect consumers from "to big to fail" were repealed, lapsed or, in some cases, just not enforced. This set us up for abuse and manipulation under the guise of free markets with the mantra of, "the market will police itself." Well we all know that didn't happen. In my judgment the Patriot Act is in the process of doing the same thing. It's the erosion of protections done slowly, over time that eventually becomes static in the background until the collective "we" accept it as the norm.

It's the same with tort reform. For all the abuse and I will admit there is some, it's still a Constitutional right for legal redress if I am harmed due to malpractice, incompetence or malfeasance of an individual or corporation. Most of the Republicans position on health care reform is to do away with my Constitutional right to redress even though study after study has shown it's only .05 percent of the cost of health care. Yesterday CNN reported that a doctor did a cesarean section on a women that wasn't pregnant. How does that happen and doesn't that women have every right to legal redress for such a colossal screw up. I think so.

Some may argue that the Patriot Act was needed to protect us from terrorist. I can understand that argument to some extent but the real reason was that the administration found it to cumbersome and didn't want to be burdened with qualifying an interception to a judge or panel of judges who's sole responsibility was to protect the rights of all of us. What they really didn't want was having to explain anything they did.

So now I have lost track of what this tread is all about...oh yeah, Citibank. Sorry for the diversion but I wanted to answer the question. For those that say they want their country back, I say great, so do I. Lets start by repealing the Patriot Act, reinstall Glass-Spiegel and get back to working with each other. None of us will ever get our country back until we quit falling victim to our own fears.

[E-Vol-ution]

I am laughing really hard that everyone is geting all up in arms over a statement CyFallsMom made 6 weeks ago.

It was a very inflammatory and condemning statement that insults me, my wife and or everyone else that voted for what America felt was the best candidate in the election.
She's a big girl and I hate the thought of talking to a woman that way.......but she needs to know how to be responsible.
I did not respond to it initially, because of the depthness of ignorance spouted.
Hopefully, no one will insult people to such a degree to warrant such a response in the future.
If you don't like the candidate, that's fine.
Don't lump me, my wife or loved ones in future rants...........well, maybe me but leave the others out.

[slcdragonfan]

I am interested and not being a smart alek but how has the Patriot Act adversely affected you personally? I kinda like the fact that this country has not seen another terrorist attack since 9/11 and I believe the Patriot Act has everything to do with that. Are you saying or doing illegal acts that would cause you to be concerned? I myself am a law abiding citizen and really am not concerned about my actions and communications.

I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.
James Madison

[cougmantx]

I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.
James Madison

x2

[JagFan]

It was a very inflammatory and condemning statement that insults me, my wife and or everyone else that voted for what America felt was the best candidate in the election.
She's a big girl and I hate the thought of talking to a woman that way.......but she needs to know how to be responsible.
I did not respond to it initially, because of the depthness of ignorance spouted.
Hopefully, no one will insult people to such a degree to warrant such a response in the future.
If you don't like the candidate, that's fine.
Don't lump me, my wife or loved ones in future rants...........well, maybe me but leave the others out.

Yes CyFallsMom is a big girl and does an excellent job at expressing herself and defending what she says without my help.

I just find it funny the dems can make movies about assassinating a sitting president, hope for his VP to die, blame Bush for everything wrong in the world and call him every name in the book, call blacks that have joined the Tea Party Uncle Toms, make up lies about what was said and done to them by Tea partiers and defend such things then can say they are insulted with a straight face when it is turned around.

These things come from both sides and I laugh really really hard when a democrat thinks they have the higher moral ground in such situations and have pointed out to conservative friends when we have done the same.

I personally try very hard not to lump people together and do not like any name calling in any form from anyone.

[slcdragonfan]

Here's another:

Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people.
Theodore Roosevelt

[cougmantx]

Here's another:

Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people.
Theodore Roosevelt

You just gotta love this guy...:notworthy

[cougmantx]

Yes CyFallsMom is a big girl and does an excellent job at expressing herself and defending what she says without my help.

I just find it funny the dems can make movies about assassinating a sitting president, hope for his VP to die, blame Bush for everything wrong in the world and call him every name in the book, call blacks that have joined the Tea Party Uncle Toms, make up lies about what was said and done to them by Tea partiers and defend such things then can say they are insulted with a straight face when it is turned around.
These things come from both sides and I laugh really really hard when a democrat thinks they have the higher moral ground in such situations and have pointed out to conservative friends when we have done the same.

I personally try very hard not to lump people together and do not like any name calling in any form from anyone.

I agree with you. I never saw the movie and thought it was in very poor taste to produce. I try to make sure that I am arguing something because it is what I believe is right and not the party line.

If I had to pick one politician I really like it would have to be Sen. Webb from Virginia. Middle of the road, reasoned, ex-Navy officer and if I'm not mistaken a Rhodes Scholar. His reason and thought process are appealing to me.

[JagFan]

I agree with you. I never saw the movie and thought it was in very poor taste to produce. I try to make sure that I am arguing something because it is what I believe is right and not the party line.

If I had to pick one politician I really like it would have to be Sen. Webb from Virginia. Middle of the road, reasoned, ex-Navy officer and if I'm not mistaken a Rhodes Scholar. His reason and thought process are appealing to me.

I don't know much about Senator Webb but will look into it.

I just get sick and tired of the name calling and pointing of fingers. I will give Bush the class award because when people protested and called him names he had the class to say That is what makes America great, they have the right and freedom to say those things. He did not call them out and try to make them into something they are not. He could have said more to his supporters to stop the name calling.

I don't understand why people cannot disagree and still be respectful of the other point of view. We have a very good friend who went from ultra conservative to liberal in a two year period and we are still great friends. But he has pointed out that we are is only conservative friends left. And the same can be said for friends that were liberal but turned conservative. I just don't get it. All of them are good upstanding moral people that don't call names and are just trying to raise a family and make a living.

Why does which political party one belong decide who they are friends with? We just don't go there on certain subjects and enjoy our common interests.

[slcdragonfan]

I don't know much about Senator Webb but will look into it.

I just get sick and tired of the name calling and pointing of fingers. I will give Bush the class award because when people protested and called him names he had the class to say That is what makes America great, they have the right and freedom to say those things. He did not call them out and try to make them into something they are not. He could have said more to his supporters to stop the name calling.

I don't understand why people cannot disagree and still be respectful of the other point of view. We have a very good friend who went from ultra conservative to liberal in a two year period and we are still great friends. But he has pointed out that we are is only conservative friends left. And the same can be said for friends that were liberal but turned conservative. I just don't get it. All of them are good upstanding moral people that don't call names and are just trying to raise a family and make a living.

Why does which political party one belong decide who they are friends with? We just don't go there on certain subjects and enjoy our common interests.

+1million. Being tolerant of dissenting views, and discussing them, cross-pollination if you will, should cause understanding of the different viewpoints. When I was in Oklahoma City, they used to get the two party chairmen together to discuss their viewpoints. The would go at it, heatedly but civilly. But you could tell they were great friends and had a great deal of respect for each other.

[cougmantx]

I don't know much about Senator Webb but will look into it.

I just get sick and tired of the name calling and pointing of fingers. I will give Bush the class award because when people protested and called him names he had the class to say That is what makes America great, they have the right and freedom to say those things. He did not call them out and try to make them into something they are not. He could have said more to his supporters to stop the name calling.

I don't understand why people cannot disagree and still be respectful of the other point of view. We have a very good friend who went from ultra conservative to liberal in a two year period and we are still great friends. But he has pointed out that we are is only conservative friends left. And the same can be said for friends that were liberal but turned conservative. I just don't get it. All of them are good upstanding moral people that don't call names and are just trying to raise a family and make a living.
Why does which political party one belong decide who they are friends with? We just don't go there on certain subjects and enjoy our common interests.

I agree. I had to laugh a little at the conservative turned liberal because I find myself in that position all the time. Almost all of my friends are conservative of the sort that likes the tea party. Face to face we have a great time although my oldest friend won't talk to me any more. Probably because he joined the John Burch Society and wanted to talk about militias and I didn't want anything to do with it.

That stuff happens.

[JagFan]

I agree. I had to laugh a little at the conservative turned liberal because I find myself in that position all the time. Almost all of my friends are conservative of the sort that likes the tea party. Face to face we have a great time although my oldest friend won't talk to me any more. Probably because he joined the John Burch Society and wanted to talk about militias and I didn't want anything to do with it.

That stuff happens.

Our dear friend is a crimminal defense lawyer and at one time was president of the Denton County Republican Party. He went on a retreat with that big name attorney Gerry Spence (sp) and came back a changed man. It was hard at first when he tried to convert (his words) my husband. But we realized that we can still work together on the things we all love like raising our children and helping in the community. His wife and I went to high school together so cutting the ties was not a consideration. We just learned what not to talk about and we are all happy.

[JMSFan]

It was a very inflammatory and condemning statement that insults me, my wife and or everyone else that voted for what America felt was the best candidate in the election.
She's a big girl and I hate the thought of talking to a woman that way.......but she needs to know how to be responsible.
I did not respond to it initially, because of the depthness of ignorance spouted.
Hopefully, no one will insult people to such a degree to warrant such a response in the future.
If you don't like the candidate, that's fine.
Don't lump me, my wife or loved ones in future rants...........well, maybe me but leave the others out.

Then please enlighten us. Why exactly did you vote for Obama? Was it his vast political experience? His long list of legislative accomplishments? Or was it just his pie in the sky promises he made during his campaign? I cant believe someone who claims to be so intelligent and insightful as yourself fell for it hook, line and sinker.
CyFallsMom, as well as many others knows you cant legitimately answer those questions, so thats why you are so offended by what she said. The kool aid turned sour real quick, didnt it?
And while Im asking, has he lived up to those promises and expectations? Are you pleased or disappointed with his performance so far?

[chhspantherfan]

"present" :rolleyes:

[chhspantherfan]

i can't believe I missed this thread. The only reason that I opened it was because of the Citi reference. I am doing my business banking there now as they have become very easy to work with. Everything that I have asked for, they have done. Almost like the old days:)

[cougmantx]

Then please enlighten us. Why exactly did you vote for Obama? Was it his vast political experience? His long list of legislative accomplishments? Or was it just his pie in the sky promises he made during his campaign? I cant believe someone who claims to be so intelligent and insightful as yourself fell for it hook, line and sinker.
CyFallsMom, as well as many others knows you cant legitimately answer those questions, so thats why you are so offended by what she said. The kool aid turned sour real quick, didnt it?
And while Im asking, has he lived up to those promises and expectations? Are you pleased or disappointed with his performance so far?

Well based on your signature it's probably not worth the time it would take to respond. Your right and everyone else is wrong...I get it.

[pied]

Then please enlighten us. Why exactly did you vote for Obama? Was it his vast political experience? His long list of legislative accomplishments? Or was it just his pie in the sky promises he made during his campaign? I cant believe someone who claims to be so intelligent and insightful as yourself fell for it hook, line and sinker.
CyFallsMom, as well as many others knows you cant legitimately answer those questions, so thats why you are so offended by what she said. The kool aid turned sour real quick, didnt it?

And while Im asking, has he lived up to those promises and expectations? Are you pleased or disappointed with his performance so far?

Not speaking for Evo, but if you wanted to list accomplishments for Obama as President there are significant ones. More than likely you are opposed to them, but you were before he was elected as well.




Passing the first significant health care reform in 40 years
Signed a new nuclear treaty with Russia
Ordered more troops to Afghanistan and set a timetable to exir Iraq
Nominated and sat a Supreme Court Justice(first Latina if that means anything)
Passed the largest stimulus bill in history


Certanily some people see all or some of these items as good, and some the opposite. To say he's done nothing, seems to me a bit off. Experience or not, he's got things done, right?

[Dawg Fan]

Here's my problem with the Patriot Act. First you must know that I have some experience with this as I was trained by the U.S. Navy to do some interceptions. I also worked on an Admirals staff where we were highly specialized in communications. I won't go into my job but if you look up the Walker spy case you will understand the ramifications of what happens when it all goes wrong. I did the same job and that particular case happened while I was serving in the Navy. Most of my old shipmates I worked with felt they should have all three faced a firing squad.

The Patriot Act dispensed with many of the checks and balances put in place to insure our Constitution was being upheld and the military or federal government were not spying on American citizens with undo cause. By removing the panel of judges (or judge) approval prior to surveillance commencing the oversight of interceptions was greatly diminished. Take the example of current financial meltdown. It didn't happen overnight. It happened because over years a series of laws meant to protect consumers from "to big to fail" were repealed, lapsed or, in some cases, just not enforced. This set us up for abuse and manipulation under the guise of free markets with the mantra of, "the market will police itself." Well we all know that didn't happen. In my judgment the Patriot Act is in the process of doing the same thing. It's the erosion of protections done slowly, over time that eventually becomes static in the background until the collective "we" accept it as the norm.

It's the same with tort reform. For all the abuse and I will admit there is some, it's still a Constitutional right for legal redress if I am harmed due to malpractice, incompetence or malfeasance of an individual or corporation. Most of the Republicans position on health care reform is to do away with my Constitutional right to redress even though study after study has shown it's only .05 percent of the cost of health care. Yesterday CNN reported that a doctor did a cesarean section on a women that wasn't pregnant. How does that happen and doesn't that women have every right to legal redress for such a colossal screw up. I think so.

Some may argue that the Patriot Act was needed to protect us from terrorist. I can understand that argument to some extent but the real reason was that the administration found it to cumbersome and didn't want to be burdened with qualifying an interception to a judge or panel of judges who's sole responsibility was to protect the rights of all of us. What they really didn't want was having to explain anything they did.

So now I have lost track of what this tread is all about...oh yeah, Citibank. Sorry for the diversion but I wanted to answer the question. For those that say they want their country back, I say great, so do I. Lets start by repealing the Patriot Act, reinstall Glass-Spiegel and get back to working with each other. None of us will ever get our country back until we quit falling victim to our own fears.

Thank You, that was a very good response and I respect your views and opinions about it. As for myself, all I know is that living in a safe country is very important to me and I feel the Patriot Act has helped in that regard. Can it be abused...you betcha....I just don't see the negative outweighing the positive at this time. I may change my mind in the future. Any government program is subject to abuse and corruption as is shown on the news every day. This is just another reason I don't want the government to run health care. The cost and corruption associated with this will break this country IMO. I believe there needs to be changes in our health care system but putting the government in charge of it is a huge mistake.JMO

[pied]

Thank You, that was a very good response and I respect your views and opinions about it. As for myself, all I know is that living in a safe country is very important to me and I feel the Patriot Act has helped in that regard. Can it be abused...you betcha....I just don't see the negative outweighing the positive at this time. I may change my mind in the future. Any government program is subject to abuse and corruption as is shown on the news every day. This is just another reason I don't want the government to run health care. The cost and corruption associated with this will break this country IMO. I believe there needs to be changes in our health care system but putting the government in charge of it is a huge mistake.JMO

Not me, but here is one poster's exerience:


http://forums.5atexasfootball.com/showthread.php?t=48761

[cougmantx]

Thank You, that was a very good response and I respect your views and opinions about it. As for myself, all I know is that living in a safe country is very important to me and I feel the Patriot Act has helped in that regard. Can it be abused...you betcha....I just don't see the negative outweighing the positive at this time. I may change my mind in the future. Any government program is subject to abuse and corruption as is shown on the news every day. This is just another reason I don't want the government to run health care. The cost and corruption associated with this will break this country IMO. I believe there needs to be changes in our health care system but putting the government in charge of it is a huge mistake.JMO

It's a catch twenty two isn't it? I understand your concerns about health care and I stated my opposition to it in the form it was passed; so at one level we agree but for different reasoning.

As far as the Patriot Act is concerned, I just hope it isn't to late before we know about the abuses to avoid something like the financial meltdown. If it is then there is much more at stake then a depression, it's the whole notion that every man/women is created equal and we are fundamentally governed by a Constitution that is meant to guarantee us those rights.

I fear some portions of what our government is doing but I have to step back and look at who I trust more. A government that in most cases is still responsible to the people or corporations that bear little responsibility to anything but the bottom line and there lies the catch twenty two. The line between government and big business is getting blurred more each day.

[E-Vol-ution]

Then please enlighten us. Why exactly did you vote for Obama? Was it his vast political experience? His long list of legislative accomplishments? Or was it just his pie in the sky promises he made during his campaign? I cant believe someone who claims to be so intelligent and insightful as yourself fell for it hook, line and sinker.
CyFallsMom, as well as many others knows you cant legitimately answer those questions, so thats why you are so offended by what she said. The kool aid turned sour real quick, didnt it?
And while Im asking, has he lived up to those promises and expectations? Are you pleased or disappointed with his performance so far?

He was the best candidate for the job in my opinion and the majority of America felt the same way.
How much logic does that involve to even question it when I saw a ticket with Palin as a VP (who is an insult to intelligence) and McCain that did not seem much different than the past administration .

I am offended by some ignorant rant of pigmentation and weakness among other characteristics describing a contrast in political views.
A guy like you is the least qualified in questioning anything involving validity of a man's thoughts. A penny for your thoughts if you can even ask what's been done if anything in the past 15 months.
Your agenda isn't debatable, nor your defense of CFmom.

As stated before........criticize the candidate endlessly if you wish.
Keep it confined to that or you are making personal insults which may not get the "turn the other cheek" response.

[JMSFan]

Not speaking for Evo, but if you wanted to list accomplishments for Obama as President there are significant ones. More than likely you are opposed to them, but you were before he was elected as well.




Passing the first significant health care reform in 40 years
Signed a new nuclear treaty with Russia
Ordered more troops to Afghanistan and set a timetable to exir Iraq
Nominated and sat a Supreme Court Justice(first Latina if that means anything)
Passed the largest stimulus bill in history


Certanily some people see all or some of these items as good, and some the opposite. To say he's done nothing, seems to me a bit off. Experience or not, he's got things done, right?

Fair enough, but off point. I asked why he voted for the candidate Obama and those accomplishments and experience.
He has done "some things" (as you put it), but 2 out of those 5 things are potentially a disaster for our economic situation.
Lets focus on what he said he would do as POTUS, but then did a 180 on the public.
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/rulings/promise-broken/

Seriously, did people vote for him based on the things you listed, or the promises that he made?

[Dawg Fan]

Not speaking for Evo, but if you wanted to list accomplishments for Obama as President there are significant ones. More than likely you are opposed to them, but you were before he was elected as well.




Passing the first significant health care reform in 40 years
Signed a new nuclear treaty with Russia
Ordered more troops to Afghanistan and set a timetable to exir Iraq
Nominated and sat a Supreme Court Justice(first Latina if that means anything)
Passed the largest stimulus bill in history


Certanily some people see all or some of these items as good, and some the opposite. To say he's done nothing, seems to me a bit off. Experience or not, he's got things done, right?


lets just look at those shall we?

passed a health care reform bill that the majority of the country didn't want and without any bipartisan support.....

you consider signing a new nuclear treaty with Russia to be important accomplishment while North Korea and Iran may potentially have nuclear weapon capabilities? I don't think Russia is the country we should be worried about right now and the jury is still out on whether that treaty is good or bad for this country

ordered more troops to Afghanistan was good but would have been done by a Republican President as well

I'll give you the supreme court justice being a good move.

The stimulus bill just put us farther in debt. Jobless rate still around 10% or higher one year later.

not seeing anything to crow about at all

[Dawg Fan]

Not me, but here is one poster's exerience:


http://forums.5atexasfootball.com/showthread.php?t=48761

it was a tragedy but I guess he still manages to go on

[E-Vol-ution]

Yes CyFallsMom is a big girl and does an excellent job at expressing herself and defending what she says without my help.

I just find it funny the dems can make movies about assassinating a sitting president, hope for his VP to die, blame Bush for everything wrong in the world and call him every name in the book, call blacks that have joined the Tea Party Uncle Toms, make up lies about what was said and done to them by Tea partiers and defend such things then can say they are insulted with a straight face when it is turned around.

These things come from both sides and I laugh really really hard when a democrat thinks they have the higher moral ground in such situations and have pointed out to conservative friends when we have done the same.

I personally try very hard not to lump people together and do not like any name calling in any form from anyone.

This is exactly what I responded to.

[pied]

Fair enough, but off point. I asked why he voted for the candidate Obama and those accomplishments and experience.
He has done "some things" (as you put it), but 2 out of those 5 things are potentially a disaster for our economic situation.
Lets focus on what he said he would do as POTUS, but then did a 180 on the public.
http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/rulings/promise-broken/

Seriously, did people vote for him based on the things you listed, or the promises that he made?

If I am not mistaken Healthcare reform was a pretty big promise of his, right? I recall several conversations about his nuclear plans and his plans for Afghanistan and Iraq during the election and so far he has acted on those.

I don't think every person that voted for or against him was for or against every one of his promises. The first one listed from your link, I doubt many if any were aware of:

"Will eliminate all income taxation of seniors making less than $50,000 per year. This will eliminate taxes for 7 million seniors -- saving them an average of $1,400 a year-- and will also mean that 27 million seniors will not need to file an income tax return at all."

Was this a position you were aware of and were against?

In addition, many of the items listed would be hard for me to list as a 180 degree turn. Certainly there is time to address or not address in the next three years that he was elected to serve, right?

[JMSFan]

He was the best candidate for the job in my opinion and the majority of America felt the same way.
How much logic does that involve to even question it when I saw a ticket with Palin as a VP (who is an insult to intelligence) and McCain that did not seem much different than the past administration .

I am offended by some ignorant rant of pigmentation and weakness among other characteristics describing a contrast in political views.
A guy like you is the least qualified in questioning anything involving validity of a man's thoughts. A penny for your thoughts if you can even ask what's been done if anything in the past 15 months.
Your agenda isn't debatable, nor your defense of CFmom.

As stated before........criticize the candidate endlessly if you wish.
Keep it confined to that or you are making personal insults which may not get the "turn the other cheek" response.

He was the best candidate based on what? What did you see of his experience, or accomplishments that compelled you to vote for him?
Those werent insulting questions, I believe they were fair and deserving of an honest reply.

[slcdragonfan]

Not speaking for Evo, but if you wanted to list accomplishments for Obama as President there are significant ones. More than likely you are opposed to them, but you were before he was elected as well.




Passing the first significant health care reform in 40 years
Signed a new nuclear treaty with Russia
Ordered more troops to Afghanistan and set a timetable to exir Iraq
Nominated and sat a Supreme Court Justice(first Latina if that means anything)
Passed the largest stimulus bill in history


Certanily some people see all or some of these items as good, and some the opposite. To say he's done nothing, seems to me a bit off. Experience or not, he's got things done, right?

OK, this one calls for YATRQ (yet another Teddy Roosevelt quote):

It behooves every man to remember that the work of the critic is of altogether secondary importance, and that, in the end, progress is accomplished by the man who does things.
Theodore Roosevelt

[cougmantx]

Hey that's my line...:heli:

[pied]

lets just look at those shall we?

passed a health care reform bill that the majority of the country didn't want and without any bipartisan support..... - Understood, but it was part of his campaign and that, I believe is the question.

you consider signing a new nuclear treaty with Russia to be important accomplishment while North Korea and Iran may potentially have nuclear weapon capabilities? I don't think Russia is the country we should be worried about right now and the jury is still out on whether that treaty is good or bad for this country - I am not a geo-political expert, but I wonder if Russia may be more willing to help us with those two countries and if that if by signing this treaty, they may be more willing to help now.

ordered more troops to Afghanistan was good but would have been done by a Republican President as well - Good point, but the last one did not because of the focus in Iraq. Might that have changed in the same time frame? I like to think so as well.

I'll give you the supreme court justice being a good move.

The stimulus bill just put us farther in debt. Jobless rate still around 10% or higher one year later. -

not seeing anything to crow about at all

Another fair point. You do need to note that the economic news has been improving. Was that due to the stimulus or in spite of it. Depends on who you ask I think. I also believe economists will debate that point for many years to come. Another fair question is where would be if it were not passed? I think the answers are the same.

[E-Vol-ution]

He was the best candidate based on what? What did you see of his experience, or accomplishments that compelled you to vote for him?
Those werent insulting questions, I believe they were fair and deserving of an honest reply.

I clearly said based on MY OPINION, which compared what each of the candidates was offering and who else was supporting them.
One thing stood out clearly.......we could not do business as usual.
Neither had experience at the job. Neither had accomplishments that involve the responsibilities a sitting president.
Only one was a failure in an educational setting and got by on his connections..........
One thing about being a President with no experience, you'd better learn quickly.

[JagFan]

This is exactly what I responded to.

True she put the people that voted for Obama in a lump group but I have heard the same about Tea partiers and your description of Palin is not exactly nice and along with those type of criticisms goes the implication that if you like Palin you must be dumb as well. I know you didn't say it but the association is there. Disagree with her politics all you want and we can talk about it but don't talk about people personally and then get offended when it is done by the other side.

That's all I am saying.

[pied]

True she put the people that voted for Obama in a lump group but I have heard the same about Tea partiers and your description of Palin is not exactly nice and along with those type of criticisms goes the implication that if you like Palin you must be dumb as well. I know you didn't say it but the association is there. Disagree with her politics all you want and we can talk about it but don't talk about people personally and then get offended when it is done by the other side.

That's all I am saying.

Curious, I am not aware, but do we have known tea partiers on this board? I know several have admitted to voting for Obama, but not certain about the other.

[JagFan]

Curious, I am not aware, but do we have known tea partiers on this board? I know several have admitted to voting for Obama, but not certain about the other.

I don't know of any tea partiers. But that certainly does not mean they aren't here. I agree with a lot of what they say but don't necessarily say I am one. I haven't thought about it that much. I do know they are being called things that are not right.

I was speaking of overall as was CFM not just on this site.

[E-Vol-ution]

True she put the people that voted for Obama in a lump group but I have heard the same about Tea partiers and your description of Palin is not exactly nice and along with those type of criticisms goes the implication that if you like Palin you must be dumb as well. I know you didn't say it but the association is there. Disagree with her politics all you want and we can talk about it but don't talk about people personally and then get offended when it is done by the other side.

That's all I am saying.

Obama, Tea Partiers, political groups, Palin.........open season.

I stated that Palin as a VP is an insult to intelligence............

Exactly who did I talk about personally and if I did, what was it response to?
I don't even label Republicans as dumb.............their choice of candidates and platform was certainly lacking in my opinion. Too many people much smarter than I to lump.......but I do feel they should have known better than to think those candidates would produce a winning ticket just because they had the tag of Republican.

[slcdragonfan]

Hey that's my line...:heli:

yeah, I know. :)

Action taken will always be controversial...unless it is in defense of our country re: Pearl Harbor, 9/11.

[JMSFan]

If I am not mistaken Healthcare reform was a pretty big promise of his, right? I recall several conversations about his nuclear plans and his plans for Afghanistan and Iraq during the election and so far he has acted on those.

I don't think every person that voted for or against him was for or against every one of his promises. The first one listed from your link, I doubt many if any were aware of:



Was this a position you were aware of and were against?

In addition, many of the items listed would be hard for me to list as a 180 degree turn. Certainly there is time to address or not address in the next three years that he was elected to serve, right?
I will give him credit on Afghanistan. But not on the healthcare reform. Especially the way it was handled and pushed through.
The whole premise of his campaign was based on "change" and that Washington would not do "business as usual". His promise of openness of govt. and bipartisanship on healthcare reform. The decrease of lobbyist activity on the hill.

[pied]

I will give him credit on Afghanistan. But not on the healthcare reform. Especially the way it was handled and pushed through.
The whole premise of his campaign was based on "change" and that Washington would not do "business as usual". His promise of openness of govt. and bipartisanship on healthcare reform. The decrease of lobbyist activity on the hill.

Is it fair to suggest that your view on the whole premise of his campaign and those who voted for him might be different?

[JMSFan]

I clearly said based on MY OPINION, which compared what each of the candidates was offering and who else was supporting them.
One thing stood out clearly.......we could not do business as usual.
Neither had experience at the job. Neither had accomplishments that involve the responsibilities a sitting president.
Only one was a failure in an educational setting and got by on his connections..........
One thing about being a President with no experience, you'd better learn quickly.


One thing does stand out clearly. Its still "business as usual" in Washington. He hasnt and wont change any of that. Remember what he said about lobbyists during his campaign? About bipartisanship? About taxes? About openness?

[JMSFan]

Is it fair to suggest that your view on the whole premise of his campaign and those who voted for him might be different?

Anything that sounds too good to be true, usually isnt.

[E-Vol-ution]

One thing does stand out clearly. Its still "business as usual" in Washington. He hasnt and wont change any of that. Remember what he said about lobbyists during his campaign? About bipartisanship? About taxes? About openness?
That's your opinion.............In my opinion, there's a tree in your way of the total picture.

[slcdragonfan]

One thing does stand out clearly. Its still "business as usual" in Washington. He hasnt and wont change any of that. Remember what he said about lobbyists during his campaign? About bipartisanship? About taxes? About openness?

The only president that I have seen try to REALLY change "business as usual" in Washington was Jimmy Carter. How did that end up?

See, you can't change everything unless both sides play. How do you shoot the basket and play fair if the other team won't even take the court, but just sits on the bench and talks about the game?

bipartisanship requires two sides to participate. I still say, the biggest problem we have is political parties and lobbyists running our elected officials rather than them thinking on their own and acting in the nation's best interests.

Believe me though, McCain would have had just as much trouble. I'm not sure he could have controlled his own party.

[JagFan]

Obama, Tea Partiers, political groups, Palin.........open season.

I stated that Palin as a VP is an insult to intelligence............

Exactly who did I talk about personally and if I did, what was it response to?
I don't even label Republicans as dumb.............their choice of candidates and platform was certainly lacking in my opinion. Too many people much smarter than I to lump.......but I do feel they should have known better than to think those candidates would produce a winning ticket just because they had the tag of Republican.

And you are correct in that it did not make a good ticket and saying Palin is an insult to intelligence is a nice way of saying she is dumb. How else do you read it? How is it different for you to think Rep. should have known better than to vote for the Rep. ticket and Rep. think that Dems should have known better than to vote for Obama.

CFM has every right to think that people that voted for Obama are weak just as people think that those that voted for Bush are all redneck racists. Neither is true but the sentiments are the same. It is a never ending circle.

I'll take George Bush line and say this is what makes America great, we have the freedom and right to speak our minds. We ALL need to respect that.

[pied]

One thing does stand out clearly. Its still "business as usual" in Washington. He hasnt and wont change any of that. Remember what he said about lobbyists during his campaign? About bipartisanship? About taxes? About openness?

Do you think that if you voted for him, you would place more of the issues of bipartisanship on him or the Republicans?

" If we're able to stop Obama on this, it will be his Waterloo. It will break him."

In one memorable line, the Republican senator from South Carolina turned the healthcare debate into a personal battle against President Obama. Suddenly, Mr. Obama has a foil. “The Party of No” – the Democrats’ name for Republicans trying to block reform – now has a face, and it’s Senator DeMint.

Both Monday and Tuesday, Obama has riffed on DeMint's comments, turning the debate into an argument about “opponents of reform.”

On Monday, Obama said, “This isn’t about me. This isn’t about politics. This is about a healthcare system that is breaking America’s families, breaking America’s businesses, and breaking America’s economy.”


http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2009/0721/how-jim-demint-did-obama-a-favor

[pied]

Anything that sounds too bad to be true, usually isnt.

fify

[cougmantx]

And you are correct in that it did not make a good ticket and saying Palin is an insult to intelligence is a nice way of saying she is dumb. How else do you read it? How is it different for you to think Rep. should have known better than to vote for the Rep. ticket and Rep. think that Dems should have known better than to vote for Obama.

CFM has every right to think that people that voted for Obama are weak just as people think that those that voted for Bush are all redneck racists. Neither is true but the sentiments are the same. It is a never ending circle.

I'll take George Bush line and say this is what makes America great, we have the freedom and right to speak our minds. We ALL need to respect that.

You know this is the second time you've said that and I have to take an exception to it.

GWB saying it is one thing but putting it into action was a completely different story. Case in point, if you weren't specifically invited to one of his rallies, speeches or weren't vetted prior you weren't getting into his rallies. I don't mean campaign rallies but just in general. I would suggest that overall the Obama administration has been more open and inclusive so far.

Of course he would say if when someone manged to slip past the vetting process, he had no choice but overall they did everything they could to exclude anyone that had a differing opinion. That prevailed in all aspects of his administration.

[JMSFan]

That's your opinion.............In my opinion, there's a tree in your way of the total picture.

What did he do different?
How much did the lobbyists for health care contribute to and influence the passing of the bill?
Can you recall what he said about lobbyists during his campaign?

[E-Vol-ution]

What did he do different?
How much did the lobbyists for health care contribute to and influence the passing of the bill?
Can you recall what he said about lobbyists during his campaign?

Obama nor his admin could ever make a guy like you happy.
Then again, that's not your goal is it?

[JagFan]

[/B]

You know this is the second time you've said that and I have to take an exception to it.

GWB saying it is one thing but putting it into action was a completely different story. Case in point, if you weren't specifically invited to one of his rallies, speeches or weren't vetted prior you weren't getting into his rallies. I don't mean campaign rallies but just in general. I would suggest that overall the Obama administration has been more open and inclusive so far.

Of course he would say if when someone manged to slip past the vetting process, he had no choice but overall they did everything they could to exclude anyone that had a differing opinion. That prevailed in all aspects of his administration.

You missed my point. When asked about criticisms or things people said about him he always said they have that right. He never called out a TV station or group of people. Unfortunately people have to be vetted going into any high ranking politician's events and Obama is no different. Please they all stack the audience even Obama and Bush and Biden and McCain.

And I will add Clinton used that phrase a lot as well to his credit.

[cougmantx]

You missed my point. When asked about criticisms or things people said about him he always said they have that right. He never called out a TV station or group of people. Unfortunately people have to be vetted going into any high ranking politician's events and Obama is no different. Please they all stack the audience even Obama and Bush and Biden and McCain.

And I will add Clinton used that phrase a lot as well to his credit.

Okay, your right I did miss the point but I still disagree with the amount of "stacking the audience" was done by GWB (more likely his people) vs. Obama.

As far as attacking news stations, GWB had Rove doing that. Obama seems to like taking the conflict on personally and doesn't rely on others to fight his battles. I like that about him. :)

[E-Vol-ution]

And you are correct in that it did not make a good ticket and saying Palin is an insult to intelligence is a nice way of saying she is dumb. How else do you read it? How is it different for you to think Rep. should have known better than to vote for the Rep. ticket and Rep. think that Dems should have known better than to vote for Obama.

CFM has every right to think that people that voted for Obama are weak just as people think that those that voted for Bush are all redneck racists. Neither is true but the sentiments are the same. It is a never ending circle.

I'll take George Bush line and say this is what makes America great, we have the freedom and right to speak our minds. We ALL need to respect that.

And anyone making such ridiculous remarks should be ready for the consequences of making such a statement.
I never said a Republican should know better than to vote for a Republican. I said Republicans should have known better than to think they'd win the ticket with the choices made to represent them.......

[JMSFan]

Do you think that if you voted for him, you would place more of the issues of bipartisanship on him or the Republicans?




http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2009/0721/how-jim-demint-did-obama-a-favor

I have to admit, the way the democratic party behaved this past year pushing the health care bill through, I place the lack of bi partisanship on them.
And since Obama is POTUS, and preached bipartisanship throughout his campaign but did nothing towards it, then yes, he is just as guilty as the House Democrats.

[JMSFan]

Obama nor his admin could ever make a guy like you happy.
Then again, that's not your goal is it?

Has absolutely nothing to do with whether Im happy or not. Im just asking questions and you dont seem to want to give straight forward answers.

[JagFan]

And anyone making such ridiculous remarks should be ready for the consequences of making such a statement.
I never said a Republican should know better than to vote for a Republican. I said Republicans should have known better than to think they'd win the ticket with the choices made to represent them.......

And yes you have every right to think she should not have made the statement. It is all a circle.


your a good guy Evol and I do respect your opinions even when I don't agree with them. We agree to disagree pretty well, again I just get tired of the finger pointing in both directions.

[JagFan]

Okay, your right I did miss the point but I still disagree with the amount of "stacking the audience" was done by GWB (more likely his people) vs. Obama.

As far as attacking news stations, GWB had Rove doing that. Obama seems to like taking the conflict on personally and doesn't rely on others to fight his battles. I like that about him. :)

But the problem I have wth our President telling us who to watch and listen to is that once he won the election he became all of our President and shoud at least pretend to understand we all don't agree and can watch whatever we want. It is America and we still have that right. In other words Obama needs to rise above that kind of thing and be all of our President not just those that agree with him ;)

[pied]

I have to admit, the way the democratic party behaved this past year pushing the health care bill through, I place the lack of bi partisanship on them.
And since Obama is POTUS, and preached bipartisanship throughout his campaign but did nothing towards it, then yes, he is just as guilty as the House Democrats.

Did you vote for Obama?

[JMSFan]

Did you vote for Obama?

No.

[E-Vol-ution]

Has absolutely nothing to do with whether Im happy or not. Im just asking questions and you dont seem to want to give straight forward answers.

I gave straight forward answers........just not the ones that make you happy.

[cougmantx]

But the problem I have wth our President telling us who to watch and listen to is that once he won the election he became all of our President and shoud at least pretend to understand we all don't agree and can watch whatever we want. It is America and we still have that right. In other words Obama needs to rise above that kind of thing and be all of our President not just those that agree with him ;)

I see it differently. I don't see him telling us who to watch or even whom to believe. I see him rebutting some of the more outlandish statments made by some of those news organizations. I think he learned a lesson from Kerry and Gore about waiting to long to take to task misinformaion.

[E-Vol-ution]

And yes you have every right to think she should not have made the statement. It is all a circle.


your a good guy Evol and I do respect your opinions even when I don't agree with them. We agree to disagree pretty well, again I just get tired of the finger pointing in both directions.

I respect you and your opinions.....whether they are the same as mine or not.
I'm ok with a finger pointed at me.......but not Mrs. Evol.
She thinks we're all crazy most likely for discussing politics at a hs football site.:notworthy

[pied]

No.

Then it does not surprise me that you feel that the Democrats are to blame more for the lack of bipartisanship, at all. In fact it would surprise me more if you didn't.


If you did, perhaps you would look to the times that Obama has gone to meet specifically with the GOP to discuss healthcare and the stimuls. You would likely point to the Demint quote as being what he is up against. A Republican Senator more interested in defeating Obama politically than addressing policy.

[JagFan]

I respect you and your opinions.....whether they are the same as mine or not.
I'm ok with a finger pointed at me.......but not Mrs. Evol.
She thinks we're all crazy most likely for discussing politics at a hs football site.:notworthy

And she is probably the most sane of us all. ;)

[JMSFan]

Then it does not surprise me that you feel that the Democrats are to blame more for the lack of bipartisanship, at all. In fact it would surprise me more if you didn't.


If you did, perhaps you would look to the times that Obama has gone to meet specifically with the GOP to discuss healthcare and the stimuls. You would likely point to the Demint quote as being what he is up against. A Republican Senator more interested in defeating Obama politically than addressing policy.

In April of 09, and then again in his little CSPAN televised dog and pony show?
Seriously?

[JagFan]

I see it differently. I don't see him telling us who to watch or even whom to believe. I see him rebutting some of the more outlandish statments made by some of those news organizations. I think he learned a lesson from Kerry and Gore about waiting to long to take to task misinformaion.

By all means answer the rumors and critics. I would get mad at Bush for not being more forceful about that. However I do draw the lines at calling out specific groups or TV stations. He just says Fox news not the name of the individual who said something. And despite what you think they all don't say the same thing.

There is just a better way to answer the critics than that. He is all of our President whether we agree with him or not. I say that in respect for the office and that even though I agree with hardly anything he does he is still my President and I would like to at least believe he cares what I think.

[pied]

In April of 09, and then again in his little CSPAN televised dog and pony show?
Seriously?

I was thinking January '09 and January '10. Not surprised to see you not impressed.

[pied]

So Mr Prez...the Black one...not the Mexican...
I understand WE are considering converting OUR preferred stock investment in Citigroup to Common Stock...
...
We invested $45 Billion of Citigroup Preferred...
...
Converted to 40% of the Common equity...
At todays closing market capitalization…of $11.7 Billion…
...40% of $11.7 Billion…$4.68 Billion…
...
That’s about a NEGATIVE 90% on OUR investment…
...
Is this really how dumb Washington is???:confused:


Invested $45B, $20B repaid leaving the $25B in common stock purchased at $3.25/share. The Treasury sold 1.5 billion shares at an average price of $4.33.


WASHINGTON — The Treasury Department said Wednesday it raised $6.2 billion from the sale of 1.5 billion shares of Citigroup stock it received as part of the government's rescue of the bank.

The sales took place over the past month and represented 19.5 percent of the government's holdings of Citigroup common stock.

....

The government said it would not sell shares during the blackout period set by Citigroup in advance of its second quarter earnings release. That period is expected to begin on July 1. Treasury has previously said it hopes to sell all of its Citigroup shares this year.

The sales are the government's latest move to recoup the costs of the $700 billion financial bailout.

The stock sold for an average price per share of around $4.33, Treasury said.

Citi stock finished at $3.86 in regular trading Wednesday, up 8 cents from Tuesday's close. The stock has traded in a range of $2.55 to $5.43 over the past 52 weeks.

The Financial Times reported Wednesday that the Qatar Investment Authority was considering buying a portion of Treasury's stake in Citi.

Treasury purchased the common stock in the summer of 2009 at a share price of $3.25. It received the original 7.7 billion shares of Citigroup common stock, which amounted to 27 percent of the company, in return for an investment of $25 billion in the company.

Citi, one of the hardest-hit banks during the financial crisis, received $45 billion in bailout money. That was one of the largest rescues by the government.

Of the $45 billion, $25 billion was converted to a government ownership stake in Citi last summer. The bank repaid the other $20 billion in December.


http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/may/26/treasury-gets-62-billion-from-citigroup-sales/

[mad_fan]

mad is more flexible than peid would think...
mad is in this for...mad...
Copy/pasta from my BoA brokerage account...

05/20/10 YOU BOUGHT
CITIGROUP INC C XXXX.000 $3.6794 -$XXXXX.XX Cash


Thanks for playing the game...:)

[the_phoenix612]

Invested $45B, $20B repaid leaving the $25B in common stock purchased at $3.25/share. The Treasury sold 1.5 billion shares at an average price of $4.33.





http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/may/26/treasury-gets-62-billion-from-citigroup-sales/
so....

We made money? :confused:

[mad_fan]

so....

We made money? :confused:

On C??? The jury is still out...
All together??? The jury is still out...

[the_phoenix612]

On C??? The jury is still out...
All together??? The jury is still out...
If we bought our 27% at 3.25 and are selling it back at 4.33, doesn't that usually make you money?

[mad_fan]

If we bought our 27% at 3.25 and are selling it back at 4.33, doesn't that usually make you money?

If that's want it actually cost you and you had sold it all...yes...

[mojotrain]

Bush did the first bailout and the laatest Nationalization talks started w/Republican Senators last week.

Bush too had a socialist, progressive congress. Oh, add a few marxist just for good measure.

[dragonpants]

I don't want you to go away, I just find it funny you puff all up when folks criticize Obama and turn right around and do the exact same thing to Bush. Get real

Obama is horrible and Bush sucked as well. I am a conservative but Bush created much bigger government which opposed to all conservatives. He did not want to nationalize everything though. They are/were both horrible presidents. I know Obama inherited this mess and Bush inherited nothing but sunshine from Clinton. It was a mess but his solutions are creating a far larger one, unless of course you are a socialist. McCain/Pallin was not a much better choice. We have been handcuffed the last few elections.

[dragonpants]

Here's my problem with the Patriot Act. First you must know that I have some experience with this as I was trained by the U.S. Navy to do some interceptions. I also worked on an Admirals staff where we were highly specialized in communications. I won't go into my job but if you look up the Walker spy case you will understand the ramifications of what happens when it all goes wrong. I did the same job and that particular case happened while I was serving in the Navy. Most of my old shipmates I worked with felt they should have all three faced a firing squad.

The Patriot Act dispensed with many of the checks and balances put in place to insure our Constitution was being upheld and the military or federal government were not spying on American citizens with undo cause. By removing the panel of judges (or judge) approval prior to surveillance commencing the oversight of interceptions was greatly diminished. Take the example of current financial meltdown. It didn't happen overnight. It happened because over years a series of laws meant to protect consumers from "to big to fail" were repealed, lapsed or, in some cases, just not enforced. This set us up for abuse and manipulation under the guise of free markets with the mantra of, "the market will police itself." Well we all know that didn't happen. In my judgment the Patriot Act is in the process of doing the same thing. It's the erosion of protections done slowly, over time that eventually becomes static in the background until the collective "we" accept it as the norm.

It's the same with tort reform. For all the abuse and I will admit there is some, it's still a Constitutional right for legal redress if I am harmed due to malpractice, incompetence or malfeasance of an individual or corporation. Most of the Republicans position on health care reform is to do away with my Constitutional right to redress even though study after study has shown it's only .05 percent of the cost of health care. Yesterday CNN reported that a doctor did a cesarean section on a women that wasn't pregnant. How does that happen and doesn't that women have every right to legal redress for such a colossal screw up. I think so.

Some may argue that the Patriot Act was needed to protect us from terrorist. I can understand that argument to some extent but the real reason was that the administration found it to cumbersome and didn't want to be burdened with qualifying an interception to a judge or panel of judges who's sole responsibility was to protect the rights of all of us. What they really didn't want was having to explain anything they did.

So now I have lost track of what this tread is all about...oh yeah, Citibank. Sorry for the diversion but I wanted to answer the question. For those that say they want their country back, I say great, so do I. Lets start by repealing the Patriot Act, reinstall Glass-Spiegel and get back to working with each other. None of us will ever get our country back until we quit falling victim to our own fears.

On tort reform of which I am a proponent. No one is trying to preclude someone from getting compensated if they were harmed. The lady you mention should be compensated. That is not what we are talking about. It is the 2 mill for spilling hot coffee on yourself, all the slip fall cases, the attorneys advertising for children with birth defects to sue doctors whose malpractice carrier finds it cheaper to settle than litigate. There should be some punishment for filing a frivolous lawsuit. If you want to litigate great but you might think twice if you lose you had to pay the defendants legal bill that would not be covered by bankruptcy laws. That is tort reform with teeth. Now if you are a plaintiff and you lose you do not really lose you just do not win. When the defendant wins they still lose.

[Dawg Fan]

Obama is horrible and Bush sucked as well. I am a conservative but Bush created much bigger government which opposed to all conservatives. He did not want to nationalize everything though. They are/were both horrible presidents. I know Obama inherited this mess and Bush inherited nothing but sunshine from Clinton. It was a mess but his solutions are creating a far larger one, unless of course you are a socialist. McCain/Pallin was not a much better choice. We have been handcuffed the last few elections.

I don't disagree with you at all but Clinton was no peach either. Seems like we have just come to not expect great things from out leaders and that is sad.

[HUM398]

Obama is horrible and Bush sucked as well. I am a conservative but Bush created much bigger government which opposed to all conservatives. He did not want to nationalize everything though. They are/were both horrible presidents. I know Obama inherited this mess and Bush inherited nothing but sunshine from Clinton. It was a mess but his solutions are creating a far larger one, unless of course you are a socialist. McCain/Pallin was not a much better choice. We have been handcuffed the last few elections.

Bush inherited a recession, Bin Ladin, and a looming Sub-Prime mortgage mess.

[mad_fan]

Obama will claim ownership of the 2008 TARP once the remaining 80% of the Citibank shares they 'bought' have been sold...