Question for Permian fans

[farmerfan]

Hey guys, I have always wondered what your thoughts about these two teams were and who you thought was the better team.
If you had to choose between the 89 and 91 teams which one would you choose and why?
I saw them both and they were both great football teams. I tend to lean towards the 91 team due to its defense but I was wondering if you all had to choose which one you would pick.
Thanks guys.

[mojo4life]

that's tough 91 had 2 great runners and a great passing attack and really good recievers ...89 had 1 Great runner but had LLoyd Hill as a receiver , (roy williams brother)great game changer...Defenses were about even slightest edge to 91..........game of inches but Lloyds feet would probably just be in bounds..without Lloyd I'd probably give the edge to the 91 team he was the biggest difference in the 2 teams..he was the x factor on both sides of the ball..

[farmerfan]

that's tough 91 had 2 great runners and a great passing attack and really good recievers ...89 had 1 Great runner but had LLoyd Hill as a receiver , (roy williams brother)great game changer...Defenses were about even..........game of inches but Lloyds feet would probably just be in bounds..without Lloyd I'd probably give the slight edge to the 91 team he was the biggest difference in the 2 teams..

Llyod was definitely a game changer. The 89 bunch was great. I remember watching them against Arlington Lamar at Tx Stadium with both teams coming in 12-0 ranked 1 and 2 in the state. Lamar went up 10-0 and the rest was history as Permian reeled off 20 straight points to win 20-10. That was a very good Lamar team but I also remember the 91 team holding Shawn Walters to something like 52 yards on 20 carried in a 25-7 win against the Vikes at Ratliff.
Thanks for the input. I guess the 72 team still ranks as the best amongst the long time Mojo fans right?

[mojo4life]

Llyod was definitely a game changer. The 89 bunch was great. I remember watching them against Arlington Lamar at Tx Stadium with both teams coming in 12-0 ranked 1 and 2 in the state. Lamar went up 10-0 and the rest was history as Permian reeled off 20 straight points to win 20-10. That was a very good Lamar team but I also remember the 91 team holding Shawn Walters to something like 52 yards on 20 carried in a 25-7 win against the Vikes at Ratliff.
Thanks for the input. I guess the 72 team still ranks as the best amongst the long time Mojo fans right?

heck 93 was up there with 91, We got kicked out of the playoffs for using some transfer kid from OHS a couple of plays in a meaning less game........that team would have been way up there...72,89,91 a toss up 72, 89 national champs 91 ranked #2 in the nation at the end. 93 was also #1 or 2 nation wide before that happened...........

[farmerfan]

heck 93 was up there with 91, We got kicked out of the playoffs for using some transfer kid from OHS a coupleof plays in a meening less game........that team would have been way up there...72,89,91 a toss up 72, 89 national champs 91 ranked #2 in nation at the end 93 was also #1 or 2 nation wide before that happened...........

I agree with you 100% on 93. I saw a young Permian team kill us in 92. When the brackets were released for the 93 playoffs I was glad you all were D1 and we were D2. I still think had you all not been kicked out of the playoffs in 93, that would have been the year you would ahve finally beat Plano. The 93 team was incredible. I hate that a backup got you all DQ from the playoffs. IMO yall would have given Judson a whale of a game in teh finals that year.
FWIW, I have stated many times on this board that I thought the 93 Permian team was one of the best in Permian's history

[mojo4life]

I agree with you 100% on 93. I saw a young Permian team kill us in 92. When the brackets were released for the 93 playoffs I was glad you all were D1 and we were D2. I still think had you all not been kicked out of the playoffs in 93, that would have been the year you would ahve finally beat Plano. The 93 team was incredible. I hate that a backup got you all DQ from the playoffs. IMO yall would have given Judson a whale of a game in teh finals that year.
FWIW, I have stated many times on this board that I thought the 93 Permian team was one of the best in Permian's history

that and the books effects 'kinda hurt the program 94-95 we were kinda on fumes but had just enough left to do some good things... were getting the program back in a rythym..where the rhytym is Mojo enough said .. heck this years team was loaded however they were learning mojo again..I felt it for 1 quarter against Allen Get it up to 4 quarters again,and we could have some fun regardless of the talent pull in any perticuler year... I loved the 80 team not the most talented team however the epitemy of Mojo....add great talent to mojo football then you got possible national champ type teams

[farmerfan]

that and the books effects 'kinda hurt the program 94-95 we were kinda on fumes but had just enough left to do some good things... were getting the program back in a rythym..where the rhytym is Mojo enough said .. heck this years team was loaded however they were learning mojo again..I felt it for 1 quarter against Allen Get it up to 4 quarters again,and we could have some fun regardless of the talent pull in any perticuler year... I loved the 80 team not the most talented team however the epitemy of Mojo....add great talent to mojo football then you got possible national champ type teams

Once again I agree 100%. I was there for Allen this year and in the 4th you could feel the "MOJO Mystique" rearing its pretty head again. I have read about the 80 team that was led by Del Watson maybe? The comeback against Jefferson in the title game is legendary.
I still think the Mojo fumes were there in 94 despite the dislike for Mayes. I saw it first hand at Tx Stadium when you all whipped us 37-0. Heck I dont think we crossed midfield until late 3rd quarter that afternoon. I remember we brought a crowd that afternoon and we all left dissapointed. JaQuay and I.C Ward ran all over us. The 95 title game against Judson was epic. One of hte greatest ever played.
I am glad that Allman is in charge now and is getting what is IMO "The Texas Program" back on track.

[mojo4life]

Once again I agree 100%. I was there for Allen this year and in the 4th you could feel the "MOJO Mystique" rearing its pretty head again. I have read about the 80 team that was led by Del Watson maybe? The comeback against Jefferson in the title game is legendary.
I still think the Mojo fumes were there in 94 despite the dislike for Mayes. I saw it first hand at Tx Stadium when you all whipped us 37-0. Heck I dont think we crossed midfield until late 3rd quarter that afternoon. I remember we brought a crowd that afternoon and we all left dissapointed. JaQuay and I.C Ward ran all over us. The 95 title game against Judson was epic. One of hte greatest ever played.
I am glad that Allman is in charge now and is getting what is IMO "The Texas Program" back on track.


thanks for remembering..there is a difference...;.I also remember when I was a young lad late 70,s or early 80's? us tying you guys(lewisville)in the playoffs ..and my dad having to explain to me we lost? and are season was over...all of us young boys had the red arse bad toward you guys ,and couldn't wait to repay when we got older:)

[farmerfan]

thanks for remembering..there is a difference...;.I also remember when I was a young lad late 70,s or early 80's? us tying you guys(lewisville)in the playoffs ..and my dad having to explain to me we lost? and are season was over...all of us young boys had the red arse bad toward you guys ,and couldn't wait to repay when we got older:)

I believe you are talking about 1981, we tied you guys at Barrett Stadium 14-14. We led in first downs I think 19-15 and went on to play Eastern Hills the following week. We lost to them 15-7. That was the year I was born but I have read and heard stories about that season. You guys more than repaid the favor in 92 and 94. You guys do have a 3-0-1 record against us, winning in 77, 92 and 94 and tying us in 81. Rumor has it the last game ever played in Barrett was the game against us but I dont know if that is true or not considering Ratliff wasn't open until what 84?

[Empire strikes back]

What year did Jerry Hix play? Was it 1980'?

[mojo4life]

What year did Jerry Hix play? Was it 1980'?

yep 1980 q.b..

[odessapermian.com]

I believe you are talking about 1981, we tied you guys at Barrett Stadium 14-14. We led in first downs I think 19-15 and went on to play Eastern Hills the following week. We lost to them 15-7. That was the year I was born but I have read and heard stories about that season. You guys more than repaid the favor in 92 and 94. You guys do have a 3-0-1 record against us, winning in 77, 92 and 94 and tying us in 81. Rumor has it the last game ever played in Barrett was the game against us but I dont know if that is true or not considering Ratliff wasn't open until what 84?


Ratliff opened for the 1982 season.

[odessapermian.com]

Hey guys, I have always wondered what your thoughts about these two teams were and who you thought was the better team.
If you had to choose between the 89 and 91 teams which one would you choose and why?
I saw them both and they were both great football teams. I tend to lean towards the 91 team due to its defense but I was wondering if you all had to choose which one you would pick.
Thanks guys.

Hard call. The 1989 team had 8 shutouts in 16 games, and was probably more balanced (or had the ability to be) on offense. The 1991 team had a steamroller offense. Malcolm Hamilton and John Williams at the RB positions, plus 3-4 other RBs behind them that could have easily started for the other teams in district. While the defense didn't have as many shutouts they were still very, very salty. I recall the semifinals game with Waco, where they had some hotshot RB (Fite???) but they didn't even cross midfield til the 4th quarter.

[Redhoss]

I have to recuse myself since I have two cousins who started on the '72 team. :D

[AMustz]

The 89 bunch was great. I remember watching them against Arlington Lamar at Tx Stadium with both teams coming in 12-0 ranked 1 and 2 in the state. Lamar went up 10-0 and the rest was history as Permian reeled off 20 straight points to win 20-10.

Both the teams came in 13-0 and Permian was ranked no 2 and Converse Judson no 1 for the entire year in the AP poll, from pre-season thru the final poll (which is before the playoffs start). Although they obviously should have been, for some reason Arlington Lamar didn't crack the top 10 the entire year.
Maybe you are talking about some other poll, but Judson was no 1 in most of the state polls and no 2 nationally and Permian no 2 in most state polls. Permian was ESPN's no 1 national team after their championship win.

1989 5A AP poll from beginning to end
http://www.collier-sharp.com/ap895.html

[farmerfan]

Both the teams came in 13-0 and Permian was ranked no 2 and Converse Judson no 1 for the entire year in the AP poll, from pre-season thru the final poll (which is before the playoffs start). Although they obviously should have been, for some reason Arlington Lamar didn't crack the top 10 the entire year.
Maybe you are talking about some other poll, but Judson was no 1 in most of the state polls and no 2 nationally and Permian no 2 in most state polls. Permian was ESPN's no 1 national team after their championship win.

1989 5A AP poll from beginning to end
http://www.collier-sharp.com/ap895.html

Thanks for the correction. I guess I was getting the 91 and 89 polls mixed up. The 91 poll had Arl Lamar ranked number 1 with Permian being number 2. I can't believe that Arlingtn Lamar never cracked the states top 10 in 89. Oh well, thatnks again for the correction.

[AMustz]

Thanks for the correction. I guess I was getting the 91 and 89 polls mixed up. The 91 poll had Arl Lamar ranked number 1 with Permian being number 2. I can't believe that Arlingtn Lamar never cracked the states top 10 in 89. Oh well, thatnks again for the correction.

The 91 teams both came in 12-0, so that must be it. The years do seem to run together, for me at least.

[mojotrain]

Except for the 89-91 teams, Permians state championships were spread out over a long period of time. So it's really hard for me to compare. It is so very close. Being a Farmer you know if you saw a 60s Permian team then you had seen a 1991 Permian team. Clone is the key word here.

I think if forced I would pick 89 over 91. Saying that, I also say "best" is relative to the era they played. Although scores don't indicate it. I think the 72 team was the best, for lack of a better words, powerful or brutal. They had a one point win over Midland Lee and 13 point win over San Angelo and there was not a wannabe in the stands on either side that wanted to be any other place but in a paid for seat. You see oooh and awwww slobber knocking hits a few times in games of today but these teams offered them up on every play. However saying that, I don't think they could have beaten Permian 2007 or 2008 except for hurting them. I know thats hard to understand but it's the best I can do.

So for me, in this order Permian 1972, 1989, 1991, 1984, 1965 and number one in every Permian fans heart 1980. I'm not sure that the QB of the 1980 team would let any of the others beat his team.

As another poster indicated a excellent team was eliminated via a rule violation that today is SOP.

On Shawn Waters, The first play from scrimmage he went to his right with the ball and at the line of scrimmage he vanished as the ball went straight up about ten feet. That was the end of the game. He was great but not on that day. In those days Permian had their way with a lot of great runners but thats not what your asking. Permian 1972, David Shipman, Greg Davis, Scott Mann and Joe Bob Bizzell.

[odessapermian.com]

As another poster indicated a excellent team was eliminated via a rule violation that today is SOP.

Before someone takes this and runs with it, I'd like to point out that this was due to a mistake by the school district, not Permian themselves.

[mojotrain]

Hard call. The 1989 team had 8 shutouts in 16 games, and was probably more balanced (or had the ability to be) on offense. The 1991 team had a steamroller offense. Malcolm Hamilton and John Williams at the RB positions, plus 3-4 other RBs behind them that could have easily started for the other teams in district. While the defense didn't have as many shutouts they were still very, very salty. I recall the semifinals game with Waco, where they had some hotshot RB (Fite???) but they didn't even cross midfield til the 4th quarter.


I'm going to hook onto this post because I would like to invite all the football fans on this site to go to the odessapermian.com site and view this guys work. This is a highschool football site supreme in reguard to past history and current doings of Permian High School Sports. Although he is a Permian grad it's more about the type of work he does. You don't need to like Permain to appreciate the work done.

Excellent work and a big MOJO Jerry!:)

[farmerfan]

Before someone takes this and runs with it, I'd like to point out that this was due to a mistake by the school district, not Permian themselves.

That's what I have always heard and believed. Somthing about the kid transfering in after the season had started but he never informed the Permian coaches about it or something like that.
From my understanding the kid was a backup lineman who came over from Odessa High and saw limited playing time during the regular season. Once Permian got wind of it they informed the proper authorities of what happend.
Its sad the kids who busted their *** that season had to suffer from that mistake by the school district and deprived them of another great run in the playoffs. Man I would have killed to have been able to see a John Williams vs Jarod Douglas matchup that year

[mojotrain]

That's what I have always heard and believed. Somthing about the kid transfering in after the season had started but he never informed the Permian coaches about it or something like that.
From my understanding the kid was a backup lineman who came over from Odessa High and saw limited playing time during the regular season. Once Permian got wind of it they informed the proper authorities of what happend.
Its sad the kids who busted their *** that season had to suffer from that mistake by the school district and deprived them of another great run in the playoffs. Man I would have killed to have been able to see a John Williams vs Jarod Douglas matchup that year

ff, OP may have a different version, maybe coriv will add to the OHS side but I believe that all concerned local parties had given this transfer the ok prior to his suiting up. That includes OHS officals and Permian officals. It was at the end of a perfect regular season when the uil was notified and applied the death penelty. The kid as I understood it was having problems with someone at OHS that couldn't be resolved and from what I've been told the transfer request was initiated by OHS and I'm thinking a coach. I've never been as upset about that, which I am, as the fact that the UIL before and since that infraction did a whole lot less with a lot more reason. The transfer was done as a favor to the kid. It turned out to be a trojan horse and was the begining of the Permian downfall. It's my opinion that had Hollinghead stayed here then Permian would have remained at the top of Texas football. It was what it was and Allman seems to have a way to rub a little salve on old wounds. Maybe when my generation is past it will be totally forgotten. Not!

[RocklandDragon]

Damn...is it close to football season yet? All this talk about football and great teams--damn it, I want to go watch a football game at Ratliff again. Lubbock High plays there this year so that'll be cool.

:D