Lewisville Fightnin' Farmers ........

[Mr_Lucci]

........are at home getting ready to watch Judson compete for another state championship. Hey farmerfan that is the only way you will see Lewisville have their own thread in this forum. All you have to brag about is 1 state championship and 537 yards? That's weak !!!! Judson has done that many times. How many title games have your farmers been in since 96? NONE!!!!! This is our 3rd since so obviously we have moved on and you are still stuck in a rut. Just like your farmers. Do you know how stupid you look claiming Trinity as a farmerfan? Have some self respect hijo de perra !!!!!!!!

[TrojanHorse03]

Actually farmerfan will have plenty to talk about tomorrow!!!!:D :p He's an honary Trojan Fan!

[farmerfan]

........are at home getting ready to watch Judson compete for another state championship. Hey farmerfan that is the only way you will see Lewisville have their own thread in this forum. All you have to brag about is 1 state championship and 537 yards? That's weak !!!! Judson has done that many times. How many title games have your farmers been in since 96? NONE!!!!! This is our 3rd since so obviously we have moved on and you are still stuck in a rut. Just like your farmers. Do you know how stupid you look claiming Trinity as a farmerfan? Have some self respect hijo de perra !!!!!!!!

well we are also the first team in the history of the state of texas to win the divison 1 and division 2 state championship. Despite our recent struggles we still have a great history.

[bullrock]

And the saga continues!

[AllenEagle06]

........are at home getting ready to watch Judson compete for another state championship. Hey farmerfan that is the only way you will see Lewisville have their own thread in this forum. All you have to brag about is 1 state championship and 537 yards? That's weak !!!! Judson has done that many times. How many title games have your farmers been in since 96? NONE!!!!! This is our 3rd since so obviously we have moved on and you are still stuck in a rut. Just like your farmers. Do you know how stupid you look claiming Trinity as a farmerfan? Have some self respect hijo de perra !!!!!!!!
Well if I'm not mistaken, Judson lost to Lewisville in 96. Tell me Lucci, how did you feel that day when you lost a state championship? Oh but wait, you couldn't of been there. With that kind of talk it seems like you were born yesterday.

[Favpack]

Lucci obviously has some personal issues. Unlike Lucci - FFan has been there for decades - Lucci will be back off the wagon if Judson loses.

[bullrock]

I don't know about decades, but don't cut Lucci short. He can certainly hold his own.

[dragonfootballfan]

Apparently people are not allowed to support a team unless they have some sort of connection to them. I don't understand why two people cannot talk football without letting personal connections getting involved. Farmerfan thinks the Trojans will win. It has nothing to do with Lewisville. That type of smack is weak

[Mr_Lucci]

Lucci obviously has some personal issues. Unlike Lucci - FFan has been there for decades - Lucci will be back off the wagon if Judson loses.

Hold on now !! You don't know me cuz. Bandwagon? What do you call a farmer fan following an overhyped trinity team ? A Bandwagoner ! Don't start name calling if you can't back it up vato !

[Mr_Lucci]

I don't know about decades, but don't cut Lucci short. He can certainly hold his own.

Bullrock, aren't you tired of this farmerfan running his mouth like it is his team that is playing against Judson on Saturday?

[bullrock]

Then why does farmerfan bring it up? That is certainly not something the Rocket fans want to rehash.

[bullrock]

Not really. It keeps the board alive. FF is really pretty cool. Been around a long time as have I. Just having some fun here. I need someone to help me wane away the hours. They are going by so slow. I'm going to have to drink myself to sleep tonight if want some rest.

[dragonsdaddy]

And the saga continues!
only because mr gascan,,,,er lugie decided to turn arsonist.

[bullrock]

We will survive. I appreciate the banter.

[farmerfan]

I don't know about decades, but don't cut Lucci short. He can certainly hold his own.


decades might be a stretch, went to my first game in 1986, a 43-23 victory against Weatherford. Been watching Farmer football for roughly 20 years.

[Favpack]

FF supports the Metroplex. DFF is right - you should be able to support another team and not get dissed for it - weak smack Mr. Lucci - and I don't speak Italian - sorry I'm from East Texas.

[ROCKETSRULE]

I like history. Let me tell you as a long time Judson fan, That Lewisville offense in 96 was a thing of beauty. It was the best executed high school offense I have ever seen. The bone, they ran the freaken wishbone to perfection. And if they want to hold on to thsoe memories let them. I still have nightmares about it. They were awseome.

[farmerfan]

FF supports the Metroplex. DFF is right - you should be able to support another team and not get dissed for it - weak smack Mr. Lucci - and I don't speak Italian - sorry I'm from East Texas.


The thing they are not realizing is this is not the firs time I have supported Trinity. Last year there were hardly any Trinity fans on the board, I defended them going into their game against Tyler Lee. When Tyler Lee beat them I congratulated the Raiders and their fans. What people outside of Trinity and Lewisville dont realize is the great respect that was born when we were in a district together in the mid 90's and the great playoff games we had in 98 and 99. During those years is when plenty from Lewisville developed a mutual respect for Trinity, it was in a way like things are with SLC and Ryan right now.

Lucci
If your tired of my post, simply dont read them. No one is making you read my post. However I will say to you what I have said to others, the only post I have made about this game is defending false claims and statements made about Trinity. You will not find one post of mine saying Trinity is going to roll, or Judson has no chance. It has not been made. I still have yet to see what the problem is. I dont see why it is a problem for me to support Trinity, In fact I did this same thing in 02 after I saw Carroll play and so many were claiming that they were playing a weak schedule and not very good. When Lewisville used to exit the playoffs and now that they dont make the playoffs I pull hard for metroplex teams.
You can call it what you want, the fact is this is not the first week I have defended Trinity.

[bullrock]

I wasn't dissing him for backing Trinity. It just seemed like every time somebody from the other side said anything they were talking smack. Lonny put up one ridiculous score, 24-7 and got whacked for it. Most fo the Trinity fans have scores like 49-14; 47-14; 35-14 and nobody from the other side is taking it personal. That's what they believe will happen. That's fine. I don't think they're talkin' smack when they state their opinions even though I don't agree with them.

[farmerfan]

I wasn't dissing him for backing Trinity. It just seemed like every time somebody from the other side said anything they were talking smack. Lonny put up one ridiculous score, 24-7 and got whacked for it. Most fo the Trinity fans have scores like 49-14; 47-14; 35-14 and nobody from the other side is taking it personal. That's what they believe will happen. That's fine. I don't think they're talkin' smack when they state their opinions even though I don't agree with them.

Roughly 99% of the post concerning this game were directed at statements made by lonny and implacable.

[bullrock]

I aplogize FF. I see your point. Which ankle is broke? Maybe I'll have a chance if I kick you in the good one and run.:o

[farmerfan]

I aplogize FF. I see your point. Which ankle is broke? Maybe I'll have a chance if I kick you in the good one and run.:o

Broke the right one during the summer. If i attempted to do the haka I would re-break it in a matter of seconds.

[lonny23]

........are at home getting ready to watch Judson compete for another state championship. Hey farmerfan that is the only way you will see Lewisville have their own thread in this forum. All you have to brag about is 1 state championship and 537 yards? That's weak !!!! Judson has done that many times. How many title games have your farmers been in since 96? NONE!!!!! This is our 3rd since so obviously we have moved on and you are still stuck in a rut. Just like your farmers. Do you know how stupid you look claiming Trinity as a farmerfan? Have some self respect hijo de perra !!!!!!!!
Congrats, Farmer! You've made somebody come completely unglued. There is a certain skill that's necessary to do it mostly while talking about X's and O's.

[lonny23]

I don't know about decades, but don't cut Lucci short. He can certainly hold his own.
Lucci wants to defend his team that he feels has been attacked. We've done a lot of talking this week and the scoreboard will tell who was right and wrong. Let's keep it clean after the game.

[lonny23]

FF supports the Metroplex. DFF is right - you should be able to support another team and not get dissed for it - weak smack Mr. Lucci - and I don't speak Italian - sorry I'm from East Texas.
I have no problem with him wanting Dallas to win. I root for SA teams in the playoffs, Houston roots for Houston, West Texas sticks together, and so does East Texas.

[farmerfan]

Lucci wants to defend his team that he feels has been attacked. We've done a lot of talking this week and the scoreboard will tell who was right and wrong. Let's keep it clean after the game.

It will be clean. However I dont know where I ever attacked Judson. This post and thread was rediculous and he for one had no clue as to why he started it. He saw bullrock and I were having some exchanges so he decides to start this about Lewisville. There was no reason for it, considering I never once attacked Judson. I am still waiting to have someone show me what I did that was so bad.

[lonny23]

Roughly 99% of the post concerning this game were directed at statements made by lonny and implacable.
I agree with your statement. Implacable ended up getting banned. As far as what I said, I think it's relevant and will contribute to the score I said. In a few more hours we'll see if I knew what I was talking about. I could've just as easily said another score depending upon what I found out during the week. I do feel like I owe it to Judson to be positive about their chances to win, but in this game I really do think Judson will win. I feel better about their chances this week than I did last week.

[lonny23]

It will be clean. However I dont know where I ever attacked Judson. This post and thread was rediculous and he for one had no clue as to why he started it. He saw bullrock and I were having some exchanges so he decides to start this about Lewisville. There was no reason for it, considering I never once attacked Judson. I am still waiting to have someone show me what I did that was so bad.
At some point you need to see that you've been on Judson's case for the better part of a month if not 5 weeks. Your team beat Judson in our only matchup against each other. If Judson had beaten Lewisville in 1996, everybody would just say you were bitter and probably dismiss what you say. Lewisville won that game and a bunch of Judson fans are going to rightfully ask why you've spent as many posts as you have saying we didn't deserve the 1988 title and the Trinity stuff this week.

I know there are a lot of postive things that Trinity has done this year, but I really feel like the stuff I said are potential stumbling blocks for the Trojans. That stuff might not matter to you, but I saw something in those statements combined with the nature of Judson that made me feel like it's an advantage that Judson can gain. You have a great knowledge of football, but it looks odd to the average fan to see a fan of another team be the main guy that's doing the the talking for Trinity. That's the same thing that I did last year that amde people mad. As a Judson fan, they were asking why I was coming on their thread to say their team wasn't going to win and Judson wasn't even on the schedule.

As far as 1988 goes, we've had a lot to say about that year. One of the last things I said was that it saddens the fans and players from 1988 to hear they didn't deserve to be the champs. The title had to go to somebody and they were deserving of taking home the trophy under the rules of the UIL. We can always debate who the best team was and many people have differing opinions about that. I hate to hear people say they didn't deserve it or call it a title with asterisks. The Spurs had to hear from the Lakers and Phil Jackson that they had an asterisk title until 2003. Hey, it hurts to hear that. Nobody wants another person make light of their great achievement.

[farmerfan]

At some point you need to see that you've been on Judson's case for the better part of a month if not 5 weeks. Your team beat Judson in our only matchup against each other. If Judson had beaten Lewisville in 1996, everybody would just say you were bitter and probably dismiss what you say. Lewisville won that game and a bunch of Judson fans are going to rightfully ask why you've spent as many posts as you have saying we didn't deserve the 1988 title and the Trinity stuff this week.

I know there are a lot of postive things that Trinity has done this year, but I really feel like the stuff I said are potential stumbling blocks for the Trojans. That stuff might not matter to you, but I saw something in those statements combined with the nature of Judson that made me feel like it's an advantage that Judson can gain. You have a great knowledge of football, but it looks odd to the average fan to see a fan of another team be the main guy that's doing the the talking for Trinity. That's the same thing that I did last year that amde people mad. As a Judson fan, they were asking why I was coming on their thread to say their team wasn't going to win and Judson wasn't even on the schedule.

As far as 1988 goes, we've had a lot to say about that year. One of the last things I said was that it saddens the fans and players from 1988 to hear they didn't deserve to be the champs. The title had to go to somebody and they were deserving of taking home the trophy under the rules of the UIL. We can always debate who the best team was and many people have differing opinions about that. I hate to hear people say they didn't deserve it or call it a title with asterisks. The Spurs had to hear from the Lakers and Phil Jackson that they had an asterisk title until 2003. Hey, it hurts to hear that. Nobody wants another person make light of their great achievement.


If you remember the whole 88 thing got started when you made the comment that Judson was playing better than anyone in the state when they lost to Carter. Im sorry but your not going to get a free pass on that considering that Carter had games in the regional final and semi finals that were much closer than Judson gave them. After that is when the Judson people got fired up and we got into the 88 discussion. It had nothing to do with me having something against Judson, it had everything to do with you making a bogus statement and being called out on it. All the poste concerning 1988 were made as statements to counter what you said. Remember you were the one who made the comment to bring it up.
As far as this game, all I have done is tell you why your statements off base. Why would you make a comment like you did about a team you have no knowledge of or a team you have never seen play one time. Anyone who has been on this board for a while should know that this is not the first time I have defended Trinity. Last year I did the same thing with the Tyler Lee fans. Not one Trinity fan has asked me to stop. Not one time have a made a statement that was negative towards Converse Judson. Not one time have I put down your program or have I started anything with a Judson fan. All of you took my comments about Trinity and blew up because you felt that I was putting down Judson. Like I said please show me one time where I said Judson was going to lose (outside of our bet), shoe me one time where I said anything remotely close to being a insult to the Rockets. If you or the Rocket fans dont like me backing Trinity, then yall dont mention a word about SV next week if they are some how able to beat Katy.

[lonny23]

If you remember the whole 88 thing got started when you made the comment that Judson was playing better than anyone in the state when they lost to Carter. Im sorry but your not going to get a free pass on that considering that Carter had games in the regional final and semi finals that were much closer than Judson gave them. After that is when the Judson people got fired up and we got into the 88 discussion. It had nothing to do with me having something against Judson, it had everything to do with you making a bogus statement and being called out on it. All the poste concerning 1988 were made as statements to counter what you said. Remember you were the one who made the comment to bring it up.
As far as this game, all I have done is tell you why your statements off base. Why would you make a comment like you did about a team you have no knowledge of or a team you have never seen play one time. Anyone who has been on this board for a while should know that this is not the first time I have defended Trinity. Last year I did the same thing with the Tyler Lee fans. Not one Trinity fan has asked me to stop. Not one time have a made a statement that was negative towards Converse Judson. Not one time have I put down your program or have I started anything with a Judson fan. All of you took my comments about Trinity and blew up because you felt that I was putting down Judson. Like I said please show me one time where I said Judson was going to lose (outside of our bet), shoe me one time where I said anything remotely close to being a insult to the Rockets. If you or the Rocket fans dont like me backing Trinity, then yall dont mention a word about SV next week if they are some how able to beat Katy.
You haven't said Judson would lose and that does bother me. It's obvious you think they'll lose or you're just being an instigator to diasgree in that thread. It has to be one of the other. I wish you did have the conviction to say ET wins and by what score. I don't have a problem with you not agreeing with what I said, but I don't like seeing my words taken out of context to try to make me look bad. That did happen in that thread and it's bush league. You're a smart guy and good with your words and not everybody will notice it, but me and you know the truth.

Yes, I started the thread about Judson playing the best going into the title game. I did it because I'd heard so many people belittle that title. I feel bad for the kids in 1988 and wanted to defend them. You can't blame me for that. Many good points were brought up in that thread on both sides and one Judson player from 1988 said he didn't think they were better than Permian. I can live with Judson not necessarily being the best team, which is something we can never prove or disprove. What I don't want to happen is see people make fun of that title. It hurts Carter fans just as much to hear how they have a trash program because of what happened in 1988.

BTW, I have never said you shouldn't be able to support ET. Don't bring my name into what other people said. That's another attempt to subvert me without playing fair. If you're going to beat me, you've got to do it fairly.

Let's talk about viewing teams. You say that I shouldn't discuss this game without seeing both teams, but that goes against what everybody on the board does. I will never say somebody shouldn't discuss a game just because we haven't seen both teams. You can draw some conclusions if you do your research. By your standards, you can't refute what I said about ET's weaknesses that Judson will expose and lead to victory because you haven't seen Judson play this year!:D

[farmerfan]

You haven't said Judson would lose and that does bother me. It's obvious you think they'll lose or you're just being an instigator to diasgree in that thread. It has to be one of the other. I wish you did have the conviction to say ET wins and by what score. I don't have a problem with you not agreeing with what I said, but I don't like seeing my words taken out of context to try to make me look bad. That did happen in that thread and it's bush league. You're a smart guy and good with your words and not everybody will notice it, but me and you know the truth.

Yes, I started the thread about Judson playing the best going into the title game. I did it because I'd heard so many people belittle that title. I feel bad for the kids in 1988 and wanted to defend them. You can't blame me for that. Many good points were brought up in that thread on both sides and one Judson player from 1988 said he didn't think they were better than Permian. I can live with Judson not necessarily being the best team, which is something we can never prove or disprove. What I don't want to happen is see people make fun of that title. It hurts Carter fans just as much to hear how they have a trash program because of what happened in 1988.

BTW, I have never said you shouldn't be able to support ET. Don't bring my name into what other people said. That's another attempt to subvert me without playing fair. If you're going to beat me, you've got to do it fairly.

Let's talk about viewing teams. You say that I shouldn't discuss this game without seeing both teams, but that goes against what everybody on the board does. I will never say somebody shouldn't discuss a game just because we haven't seen both teams. You can draw some conclusions if you do your research. By your standards, you can't refute what I said about ET's weaknesses that Judson will expose and lead to victory because you haven't seen Judson play this year!:D

All I have done is say whger you were wrong about ET. I have backed up why you were wrong with facts. It is yo uand the whole Rocket nation that is taking what I say out of context. I have yet to belittle Judson in any way shape form or fashion that you guys insisit I have. However since both teams are now at Round Rock, I do believe Trinity will win this game.
The part about not seeing a team has everything to do with making the insane comments you did abotu them. You made comments that were so outrageous that had to be defended by someone who has seen them 5x this year. The comments you made were based on newspaper coverage, which we all know does not tell the whole story. The reason I defended Trinity and attacked your comments had everything to do with people who have just joined this board thinking because you have 8 billion post that you are some sort of authority when many times you have been wrong, believe it or not I have seen many errors in your post before, but have never said anything. That is the reason I defended Trinity. Yall got bent out of shape mainly bnecause you could not argue against things I said. That is when it got blown up.

As far as 88, tell me again how is saying they dont deserve what they got awarded wrong? How is the facts and arguments I used wrong. The way you guys are is that if someone dares disagreee with anything to do with judson then yall get so offended its funny. One of my problems in 88 was that Coach Rutledge had told Coach James that he would not accept the trophy or credit for the state championship if the UIL awarded it to him, he back on his word and took credit for it knowing the flaws that came with it.
To me that is bush league. Also if you dont want to hear someone's opinion on it, then dont bring it up, its funny how you get a free pass for saying what you do, but because I can defend why you are wrong I get blasted. Sometimes the truth hurts and that is what yall are dealing with on this topic.

By my standards what I have said is that I would never say a team is not well rounded or slow starting when I have no clue what I am talking about. I would never say that when I have yet to see them play. Your reasonsing for Judson winning had everything to do with the so called weakness of Trinity's football team. I felt you needed to be approached by that because you have yet to see them play and the statements you made cant be made without seeing them play. Now imagine someone saying such things about Judson, then coming to find out he had yet to see them play this year, tell me these saint of Judson fans would not have been all over them? They would have and with good reason.

[lonny23]

All I have done is say whger you were wrong about ET. I have backed up why you were wrong with facts. It is yo uand the whole Rocket nation that is taking what I say out of context. I have yet to belittle Judson in any way shape form or fashion that you guys insisit I have. However since both teams are now at Round Rock, I do believe Trinity will win this game.
The part about not seeing a team has everything to do with making the insane comments you did abotu them. You made comments that were so outrageous that had to be defended by someone who has seen them 5x this year. The comments you made were based on newspaper coverage, which we all know does not tell the whole story. The reason I defended Trinity and attacked your comments had everything to do with people who have just joined this board thinking because you have 8 billion post that you are some sort of authority when many times you have been wrong, believe it or not I have seen many errors in your post before, but have never said anything. That is the reason I defended Trinity. Yall got bent out of shape mainly bnecause you could not argue against things I said. That is when it got blown up.

As far as 88, tell me again how is saying they dont deserve what they got awarded wrong? How is the facts and arguments I used wrong. The way you guys are is that if someone dares disagreee with anything to do with judson then yall get so offended its funny. One of my problems in 88 was that Coach Rutledge had told Coach James that he would not accept the trophy or credit for the state championship if the UIL awarded it to him, he back on his word and took credit for it knowing the flaws that came with it.
To me that is bush league. Also if you dont want to hear someone's opinion on it, then dont bring it up, its funny how you get a free pass for saying what you do, but because I can defend why you are wrong I get blasted. Sometimes the truth hurts and that is what yall are dealing with on this topic.

By my standards what I have said is that I would never say a team is not well rounded or slow starting when I have no clue what I am talking about. I would never say that when I have yet to see them play. Your reasonsing for Judson winning had everything to do with the so called weakness of Trinity's football team. I felt you needed to be approached by that because you have yet to see them play and the statements you made cant be made without seeing them play. Now imagine someone saying such things about Judson, then coming to find out he had yet to see them play this year, tell me these saint of Judson fans would not have been all over them? They would have and with good reason.
I made the original post. You were responding because I said something, but you were not responding to what I said. You said other things that were different than what I said in many cases and tried to use it as proof that I was wrong. You had help from Trinity doing that, so don't think I'm just talking about you. You also have continued to use things others have said to point towards me. I invite everybody to read what I said in that thread and then read what you said in response. The 2 do not match up. You didn't respond to what I said because it would mean you would have to agree and it was things that would not put Trinity in the right light. You didn't want to agree with me and you didn't want to say something wrong, so you were left with diverting the conversation to try to discredit me.

I welcome your opinion if you don't agree with something I've said. I also welcome it if I'm incorrect about a statement I've made. So far, I've seen you disagree on opinion matters.

If anybody reads that thread, they will see that it's not me getting upset with what you said, but Trinity backers saying my statements were wrong. I said what I wanted to say in the original post and brought more things to the table as I went along. It was my statements that generated responses, not the other way around.

Maybe Coach Rutledge said that. I can't say one way or the other if he did, but you might know. I know somebody can verify if it's true or not. That title does not bring the same satisfaction as the others, but I can't see turning it down, either.

[farmerfan]

I made the original post. You were responding because I said something, but you were not responding to what I said. You said other things that were different than what I said in many cases and tried to use it as proof that I was wrong. You had help from Trinity doing that, so don't think I'm just talking about you. You also have continued to use things others have said to point towards me. I invite everybody to read what I said in that thread and then read what you said in response. The 2 do not match up. You didn't respond to what I said because it would mean you would have to agree and it was things that would not put Trinity in the right light. You didn't want to agree with me and you didn't want to say something wrong, so you were left with diverting the conversation to try to discredit me.

I welcome your opinion if you don't agree with something I've said. I also welcome it if I'm incorrect about a statement I've made. So far, I've seen you disagree on opinion matters.

If anybody reads that thread, they will see that it's not me getting upset with what you said, but Trinity backers saying my statements were wrong. I said what I wanted to say in the original post and brought more things to the table as I went along. It was my statements that generated responses, not the other way around.

Maybe Coach Rutledge said that. I can't say one way or the other if he did, but you might know. I know somebody can verify if it's true or not. That title does not bring the same satisfaction as the others, but I can't see turning it down, either.


I believe it is on one of these videos where it was said
http://www.insidehighschoolfootball.com/carter.htm

I responded to your bogus statements about being a "well rounded" team and getting off to slow starts. I backed up why you were wrong. I responded to yuour prediction of the Trojans only scoring 7 pts. I backed up why that would not be the case. All you can go on is what you have read and seen in the newspapers. I'll leave it at that, I have plenty left to say. but im done for the next 3 hours. Go Trinity, best of luck to the Rockets.

[implacable44]

I agree with your statement. Implacable ended up getting banned. As far as what I said, I think it's relevant and will contribute to the score I said. In a few more hours we'll see if I knew what I was talking about. I could've just as easily said another score depending upon what I found out during the week. I do feel like I owe it to Judson to be positive about their chances to win, but in this game I really do think Judson will win. I feel better about their chances this week than I did last week.
'

woah there cowboy -- That was bogus and I received an apology from the 4th reich. Don't go around slandering my name now.

[bullrock]

I just watched the Carter 3 part series that farmerfan shared with the board. That is a great testament to the '88 Carter football team. We all have perceptions of how and who they were/are. This will shed a different light on them as individuals and should make Coach James very proud of what these men have done with thier lives.

[farmerfan]

I just watched the Carter 3 part series that farmerfan shared with the board. That is a great testament to the '88 Carter football team. We all have perceptions of how and who they were/are. This will shed a different light on them as individuals and should make Coach James very proud of what these men have done with thier lives.


Very well said. To some of those kids, Coach James was all they had in their life. Its good to see those guys take advantage of this second chance they have been given.