The reason for government

[DragonWatcher]

Got in a debate with a drunk friend tonight about the point/reason we have a government and what a governments responsibility is to it's citizens.

The debate basically boiled down to the two purposes of man, my friends purpose being that mans ultimate purpose/desire in life is to survive. My idea is that man's ultimate purpose in life is to seek happiness/fulfillment(let's not get into a debate on what happiness is God,Money, Family etc).

My problem with the idea that man's ultimate purpose is to survive is that its completely nonsensical. The only absolute from the beginning of time until today is that every man has, or at some point will die (no discussions of jesus here either, I'm a believer myself which is one reason I think christianity is so radically different). Thus if man's ultimate purpose is to survive it is a purpose that he will fail at every time, not only that he will be destined to failure from the moment of his birth. Therefore survival cannot be the ultimate purpose of man. How would we have cases of parents dying for their children, soldiers dying for their country if there isn't some other higher aim of humanity than mere survival.

I think also if you ask any sane person if they would rather live 40 years of sheer bliss and absolute contentment or happiness or 200 years of despair, brutal beatings, and a life filled with nothing that satisfies a person will chose the life of happiness each time.

This ultimately stemmed from a debate of how the responsibility of government should be to ensure the rights of its citizens as it's highest priority rather than their absolute safety. I argued that the safest nations in the world are in places like Iran, absolute dictatorships where there is no crime etc but it goes against human nature to say that those are the ideal forms of government. I'm not saying a government shouldn't protect its citizens but that isn't it's highest priority and it shouldn't be done for the sacrifice of the rights of those citizens.

I'd love to hear y'alls opinion on this and figured we could use a good political debate that isn't a left vs. right issue on here.

[dragons08]

I think you're right. Think of the movies and stuff where they show people who just want to end their lives instead of suffering through the pain of living.

[ktCarl]

I live to survive.

Don't get caught up in intellectual or common sense debates with a drunken person. They will forget, the next day, anything profound that you said to challenge them. :cool:

From the founders of this Nation,

We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Hapiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

[15Adragon]

I live to survive.

Don't get caught up in intellectual or common sense debates with a drunken person. They will forget, the next day, anything profound that you said to challenge them. :cool:

From the founders of this Nation,

We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Hapiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

This.

[dragonsdaddy]

there is no need to further "improve" anything written by the smartest group of gentlemen ever assembled.

[mojotrain]

i live to survive.

Don't get caught up in intellectual or common sense debates with a drunken person. They will forget, the next day, anything profound that you said to challenge them. :cool:

From the founders of this nation,

we hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of hapiness. that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
this!

[mojotrain]

Got in a debate with a drunk friend tonight about the point/reason we have a government and what a governments responsibility is to it's citizens.

The debate basically boiled down to the two purposes of man, my friends purpose being that mans ultimate purpose/desire in life is to survive. My idea is that man's ultimate purpose in life is to seek happiness/fulfillment(let's not get into a debate on what happiness is God,Money, Family etc).

My problem with the idea that man's ultimate purpose is to survive is that its completely nonsensical. The only absolute from the beginning of time until today is that every man has, or at some point will die (no discussions of jesus here either, I'm a believer myself which is one reason I think christianity is so radically different). Thus if man's ultimate purpose is to survive it is a purpose that he will fail at every time, not only that he will be destined to failure from the moment of his birth. Therefore survival cannot be the ultimate purpose of man. How would we have cases of parents dying for their children, soldiers dying for their country if there isn't some other higher aim of humanity than mere survival.

I think also if you ask any sane person if they would rather live 40 years of sheer bliss and absolute contentment or happiness or 200 years of despair, brutal beatings, and a life filled with nothing that satisfies a person will chose the life of happiness each time.

This ultimately stemmed from a debate of how the responsibility of government should be to ensure the rights of its citizens as it's highest priority rather than their absolute safety. I argued that the safest nations in the world are in places like Iran, absolute dictatorships where there is no crime etc but it goes against human nature to say that those are the ideal forms of government. I'm not saying a government shouldn't protect its citizens but that isn't it's highest priority and it shouldn't be done for the sacrifice of the rights of those citizens.

I'd love to hear y'alls opinion on this and figured we could use a good political debate that isn't a left vs. right issue on here.

I think your drunken friend is speaking of cats, dogs, tigers and ect. They are content eating, fighting, fooling around and having babys, not in any certain order. We find now that a number of humans are content with the same goals and objectives in life. Most though, given a superior brain wish to use it for more than just a life as a four legged animal.

[agmc27]

everyone should become vigilantes.....live free or die hard!!!!!!lol

[patient1019]

there is no need to further "improve" anything written by the smartest group of gentlemen ever assembled.

Who built our entire government system upon what the Aztecs did.

[dragonsdaddy]

Who built our entire government system upon what the Aztecs did.

please elaborate.

[ktCarl]

Who built our entire government system upon what the Aztecs did.

I would have laughed but didn't see the humor. In fact, what are you talking about? :confused:

[patient1019]

please elaborate.

Please note, first of all, that this is in no way an attempt to discredit the Founding Father's intentions.

The Aztecs and other Native American cultures (the ones with intricate societies, anyway) had a long established system that essentially divided the government into three branches, resembling judicial, legislative, and executive. This was noticed and studied shortly before the Spaniards came in and obliterated the already failing Aztec empire, and this system would be altered into what we have today.

The concept of our government is hardly original, but no other state in recorded history has executed it as successfully as we have. Usually, we're taught that the term Aztec should make us think of savage human sacrifice before brave Cortes came in and taught them a thing or two. In reality, Europe can thank the Aztecs for a great deal of innovation.

[drgnbkr]

Who built our entire government system upon what the Aztecs did.

Wut? They were pretty dang good rock stackers and heart removers...let's don't get carried away.

[patient1019]

Wut? They were pretty dang good rock stackers and heart removers...let's don't get carried away.

True, though without them Europe (and much less the US) would probably not have developed sewage systems prior to the mid 16th century.

[drgnbkr]

True, though without them Europe (and much less the US) would probably not have developed sewage systems prior to the mid 16th century.

You're way off on your timeline...Romans had sewage systems and the turks prior to that...