Do African Americans take football to another level?

[Mr_Lucci]

This is a topic being discussed in a Rio Grande Valley football forum. The Rio Grande Valley has little to no African Americans and find them fascinating. LOL The guy who started the topic is a real trouble maker and I don't know if he is just ignorant or just an idiot.


Here is the link.
---------------
http://www.rgvsports.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=004989

[TXfbfan]

This is a topic being discussed in a Rio Grande Valley football forum. The Rio Grande Valley has little to no African Americans and find them fascinating. LOL
Here is the link.

http://www.rgvsports.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=004989


Look at 3/4 of the D2 teams left are they all black. 5/6 teams left all have in common... coaching, it doesnt matter black or white coaching builds programs

[PurpleNation]

I dunno SLC dug in us last year(LOL). I like to look at it as if your a football player and you can play the game it dosent matter what race you are. But I read the message board and it is kind of funny to.

[PurpleNation]

Look at 3/4 of the D2 teams left are they all black. 5/6 teams left all have in common... coaching, it doesnt matter black or white coaching builds programs

Euless Trinity-Mixed(?)
Converse Judson-Im just not sure
Katy-White
SLC-White
SV-White
Lufkin-Black

But once again race has nothing to do with football. I do like the point were coaching is your main reason for success

[KT2000]

Increasingly well-trained athletes (black, white, purple, etc...) are taking football to another level along with good coaches. The conditioning regiments going these days are amazing, and really get the most out of players. Sports in general seem to be getting bigger, faster and stronger every year. Players seem to be ready to face the mental/physical demands of competitive sport earlier each year also.

This is completely pointless in relation to football but FWIW...Judson, Katy and Trinity are all diverse schools.

[Mr_Lucci]

I believe in coaching as well. And it doen't matter what race you are. I can't believe this is actually a topic down there considering that one of their own RGV guys holds numerous state records for passing ( Lupe Rogriguez-Mission High). I attribute the success in the Valley ,or lack thereof, to coaching. Just look at what one of their coaches said when they uncovered a hazing scandal that had been going on for years at Donna high school. It included upperclassmen attempting to sodomize underclassmen on the football team . When the head coach was confronted with the allegations he simply said "Boys will be boys". Like he knew it was happening. With role models like these it is no wonder they haven't gotten ahead.

[LUFPAN]

I guess when your down in the Valley there's nothing else to talk about this time of year. Smithson Valley being the only exception:D

[DragonFan]

I read the thread and it was very interesting. However it never mentioned how a team like SLC seems to win against other teams who are more ethnically diverse. This is a subject that people like to walk around; it makes most people a little uneasy. I think a good team will have hard working athletes and just as hard working coaches. The best teams are the ones that prepare the best both physically and mentally. I would like to think that the current generation of kids playing football are much more color blind than their parents. The kids just see athletes, not hyphenated American athletes just athletes.

[dada]

You can take all the speed and talent in Texas, but them on one team with a bad coach and they are nothing. It's coaching...some athletes, regardless of race have more talent..it's all about harnessing the talent. Like Deangelo Hall said...A guy that runs a 4.8 and knows where he's going is much faster than a 4.3 guy that's guessing.

[PurpleNation]

I read the thread and it was very interesting. However it never mentioned how a team like SLC seems to win against other teams who are more ethnically diverse. This is a subject that people like to walk around; it makes most people a little uneasy. I think a good team will have hard working athletes and just as hard working coaches. The best teams are the ones that prepare the best both physically and mentally. I would like to think that the current generation of kids playing football are much more color blind than their parents. The kids just see athletes, not hyphenated American athletes just athletes.

Well said. I also feel that sports actually helped brake alot of racisism back in the day.

[Ailani]

I believe in coaching as well. And it doen't matter what race you are. They don't seem to agree down in the Valley though.

I disagree. I think race has something to do with it. You can't dismiss it. If you look at the NFL, a majority of players are African-American. They're not their because the coaches have discriminated against other races. They're their because they're the best.

I'm Polynesian (Samoan) and there are a disproportianate number or Polys in the NFL in relation to their population. There are less than one million Polys in the US, yet there are over 30 in the NFL. There are over ten million Chinese Americans in the US, yet not one in the NFL. You can't tell me that race isn't a determinant factor in that.

[dada]

I read the thread and it was very interesting. However it never mentioned how a team like SLC seems to win against other teams who are more ethnically diverse. This is a subject that people like to walk around; it makes most people a little uneasy. I think a good team will have hard working athletes and just as hard working coaches. The best teams are the ones that prepare the best both physically and mentally. I would like to think that the current generation of kids playing football are much more color blind than their parents. The kids just see athletes, not hyphenated American athletes just athletes.
Katy is another example....it's coaching. And another thing that people forget to bring up is that these kids play together for a while. Unlike inner city schools that everyone goes there seperate ways to seperate schools after Jr. High. My opinion is Race plays a very small role in this.

[KT2000]

A guy that runs a 4.8 and knows where he's going is much faster than a 4.3 guy that's guessing.

Case and point...Jerry Rice.

[dada]

I disagree. I think race has something to do with it. You can't dismiss it. If you look at the NFL, a majority of players are African-American. They're not their because the coaches have discriminated against other races. They're their because they're the best.

I'm Polynesian (Samoan) and there are a disproportianate number or Polys in the NFL in relation to their population. There are less than one million Polys in the US, yet there are over 30 in the NFL. There are over ten million Chinese Americans in the US, yet not one in the NFL. You can't tell me that race isn't a determinant factor in that.
It has something to do with it, but not all.....maybe it is genetic....Greyhounds are typically faster than other dogs...pitbulls are typically stronger.(Not comparing races to dogs)...but you could probably coach a team of Greyhounds to out mucsle a team of pitbulls....if that makes any sense. With Katy and SLC....there isn't usually one stud player that they try to build the team around..no individual player...it's a full team effort.

[TXfbfan]

I disagree. I think race has something to do with it. You can't dismiss it. If you look at the NFL, a majority of players are African-American. They're not their because the coaches have discriminated against other races. They're their because they're the best.

I'm Polynesian (Samoan) and there are a disproportianate number or Polys in the NFL in relation to their population. There are less than one million Polys in the US, yet there are over 30 in the NFL. There are over ten million Chinese Americans in the US, yet not one in the NFL. You can't tell me that race isn't a determinant factor in that.

the NFL and HS football are two completely different things.

[Lobo Dude]

I know whats wrong with him.. hes a yankee in texas..

[TXfbfan]

It has something to do with it, but not all.....maybe it is genetic....Greyhounds are typically faster than other dogs...pitbulls are typically stronger.(Not comparing races to dogs)...but you could probably coach a team of Greyhounds to out mucsle a team of pitbulls....if that makes any sense. With Katy and SLC....there isn't usually one stud player that they try to build the team around..no individual player...it's a full team effort.

SV as well

[SLCDad]

One can't help but notice the racial make-up of the great college teams and the entire NFL.

Can we overlook the contribution made to the Trinity offense by those huge Tongans?

Dirk can shoot and rebound but we all know white guys can't jump.

[TXfbfan]

I know whats wrong with him.. hes a yankee in texas..

Figures, lol

[TXfbfan]

i Suggest shutting this thread down before it goes any further KT

[dada]

i Suggest shutting this thread down before it goes any further KT
So far everyone has posted civil, respected opinions.

[Ailani]

i Suggest shutting this thread down before it goes any further KT

Why can't mature, intelligent people have an open and honest discussion about race? Race is a big factor in society, yet we're not supposed to be able to talk about it? Nonesense.

[LoneRocket]

I believe it does not matter what color you are it is having a strong feeder system, coaching, community support, funding and facilities, hard work, varsity numbers and being able to study the game (film) is what it takes to make a successful team. We even had a team one year where most of the starters were Hispanics and they went to the semis, one year it was mostly Whites, another year it was mostly Blacks and most years it is diverse. So it does not matter.

[pack0808]

Euless Trinity-Mixed(?)
Converse Judson-Im just not sure
Katy-White
SLC-White
SV-White
Lufkin-Black

But once again race has nothing to do with football. I do like the point were coaching is your main reason for success


Lufkin is not all black?? 4 starters are white and i would say Lufkin is about 75 % black overall as a team?? I know SLC has at least 1 starter that is black (Newton). Katy has their share of black athletes also but mostly white. So I guess you were going by majority. Like i have said, it does not matter the color in hs and if were going by recent state championhsip games in HS i guess you would have to say that you must be a majority white to have the best chance. :rolleyes: ( SLC, Katy, SV, The Woodlands) Is Judson mostly white or are they mixed?? Great coaching, great talent, and great programs win games not race. Black/White athletes are split down the middle in college and there is about 60/40 advantage in the NFL for african americans. Black's do tend to have a lot more at the skilled positions in the higher levels like the NFL because on average they are faster. But i personally could care less, My Lufkin Panthers are mostly black, my Iowa Hawks are mostly white, and my Steelers and Cowboys are mixed. I could care less if they were all green they would still be my teams. Lufkin is purple and that is all that matters. ;)

[TXfbfan]

Lufkin is not all black?? 4 starters are white and i would say Lufkin is about 75 % black overall as a team?? I know SLC has at least 1 starter that is black (Newton). Katy has their share of black athletes also but mostly white. So I guess you were going by majority. Like i have said, it does not matter the color in hs and if were going by recent state championhsip games in HS i guess you would have to say that you must be a majority white to have the best chance. :rolleyes: ( SLC, Katy, SV, The Woodlands) Is Judson mostly white or are they mixed?? Great coaching, great talent, and great programs win games not race. Black/White athletes are split down the middle in college and there is about 60/40 advantage in the NFL for african americans. Black's do tend to have a lot more at the skilled positions in the higher levels like the NFL. But i could care less, My Lufkin Panthers are mostly black, my Iowa Hawks are mostly white, and my Steelers and Cowboys are mixed. I could care less if they were all green they would still be my teams. Lufkin is purple and that is all that matters. ;)

esecially at the HS level

[PurpleNation]

Lufkin is not all black?? 4 starters are white and i would say Lufkin is about 75 % black overall as a team?? I know SLC has at least 1 starter that is black (Newton). Katy has their share of black athletes also but mostly white. So I guess you were going by majority. Like i have said, it does not matter the color in hs and if were going by recent state championhsip games in HS i guess you would have to say that you must be a majority white to have the best chance. :rolleyes: ( SLC, Katy, SV, The Woodlands) Is Judson mostly white or are they mixed?? Great coaching, great talent, and great programs win games not race. Black/White athletes are split down the middle in college and there is about 60/40 advantage in the NFL for african americans. Black's do tend to have a lot more at the skilled positions in the higher levels like the NFL. But i could care less, My Lufkin Panthers are mostly black, my Iowa Hawks are mostly white, and my Steelers and Cowboys are mixed. I could care less if they were all green they would still be my teams. Lufkin is purple and that is all that matters. ;)


Yeah I was talking about the majority, but I feel Lufkin is becoming more and more black at the HS becuase the simple fact that alot of the White people move off to Hudson,Central,and Huntington. Of those schools Huntington is the only one that plays football well the try to play(LOL). But one thing is for sure I will always cheer for Lufkin no matter the race.

[pack0808]

esecially at the HS level


Show me one NFL champ or NCAA champ that does have white starters. Usually it is mixed with all races. In the NFL the wr's, cb's, and rb's (skilled positions) are close to 85 percent black though. The white players in the NFL tend to be qb's, olineman, d-lineman, and lb's, and of course kicker's and punter's. ;)

[pack0808]

Yeah I was talking about the majority, but I feel Lufkin is becoming more and more black at the HS becuase the simple fact that alot of the White people move off to Hudson,Central,and Huntington. Of those schools Huntington is the only one that plays football well the try to play(LOL). But one thing is for sure I will always cheer for Lufkin no matter the race.


Lufkin "as a school" is about 45 percent white, 35 percent black and 20 percent hispanic. Something close to this i forget the exact numbers?? I might be off some? The baseball team is 95 percent white and both the football and basketball are majority black. The soccer team is mostly hispanic. Lufkin is very diversified no doubt. drill team and cheerleaders and band are mostly white so we have color everywhere. You are right about what you said about the Hudson, Huntington, Central thing that is a shame. I have noticed that also. Huntington does not count as playing football though. ;) Hey, we did get Zeke from Huntington and kid could play some qb. He could have easily been the starter last year. I wish he was back this year considering Claybon is out. Ralph will get it done though.

[PurpleNation]

Lufkin "as a school" is about 45 percent white, 35 percent black and 20 percent hispanic. Something close to this i forget the exact numbers?? I might be off some? The baseball team is 95 percent white and both the football and basketball are majority black. The soccer team is mostly hispanic. Lufkin is very diversified no doubt. drill team and cheerleaders and band are mostly white so we have color everywhere. You are right about what you said about the Hudson, Huntington, Central thing that is a shame. I have noticed that also. Huntington does not count as playing football though. ;)


LOL yeah there is no way you count them on playing football. I would venture to say the baseball team is more like 99% white and then you got Ralph Thomas(LOL) who is an better baseball player IMO then football which is prettsy scary if your playing against him on the diamond. I was cool with everybody when I went to Lufkin. I didnt like the teachers but thats every student(LOL)

:cool: I cant leave home without my loks

[PurpleNation]

Lufkin "as a school" is about 45 percent white, 35 percent black and 20 percent hispanic. Something close to this i forget the exact numbers?? I might be off some? The baseball team is 95 percent white and both the football and basketball are majority black. The soccer team is mostly hispanic. Lufkin is very diversified no doubt. drill team and cheerleaders and band are mostly white so we have color everywhere. You are right about what you said about the Hudson, Huntington, Central thing that is a shame. I have noticed that also. Huntington does not count as playing football though. ;) Hey, we did get Zeke from Huntington and kid could play some qb. He could have easily been the starter last year. I wish he was back this year considering Claybon is out. Ralph will get it done though.


Zek is from Lufkin. he only moved off to the Big "H" for 2 years becuase he couldnt take smallwood's starting job. Well before he moved he was behind Ayers and wood so I think he mostly moved because he didnt think he was better then BigMan. I run into Zek up here from time to time.

[pack0808]

LOL yeah there is no way you count them on playing football. I would venture to say the baseball team is more like 99% white and then you got Ralph Thomas(LOL) who is an better baseball player IMO then football which is prettsy scary if your playing against him on the diamond. I was cool with everybody when I went to Lufkin. I didnt like the teachers but thats every student(LOL)

:cool: I cant leave home without my loks


And you have some of both in your blood correct PN?? and LOL about the baseball team you are probably right? But the 1st baseman was black last year and he could hit. I think his name was Adam Sellars?? Ralph is a stud all around athlete and he is a great baseball player with unlimited potential. He will be like Aaron Luna and have is choice to play either sport on a big level in college.

[pack0808]

Zek is from Lufkin. he only moved off to the Big "H" for 2 years becuase he couldnt take smallwood's starting job. Well before he moved he was behind Ayers and wood so I think he mostly moved because he didnt think he was better then BigMan. I run into Zek up here from time to time.

Yeah you are right i forgot about him being originally from Lufkin. He was a very good athlete and looked great when he came in. What is he doing?? Playing any college ball?? He did play some wr with the 1st string also.

[PurpleNation]

And you have some of both in your blood correct PN?? and LOL about the baseball team you are probably right? But the 1st baseman was black last year and he could hit. I think his name was Adam Sellars?? Ralph is a stud all around athlete and he is a great baseball player with unlimited potential. He will be like Aaron Luna and have is choice to play either sport on a big level in college.


Adam Sellers is my boy. He is the only person I cant beat in NCAA06 but Im better on Xbox then PS2 anyway. Adam is playing a Texas Southern on a full baseball scholarship. He was a stud in football growing up as well but chose the right sport.

[pack0808]

Adam Sellers is my boy. He is the only person I cant beat in NCAA06 but Im better on Xbox then PS2 anyway. Adam is playing a Texas Southern on a full baseball scholarship. He was a stud in football growing up as well but chose the right sport.


RT's mom makes the baseball game's very interesting. ;) She can be heard from the parking lot. :D Did you see her run out on the field when he got hurt in the PAM game this year?? That was funny.

[implacable44]

It has something to do with it, but not all.....maybe it is genetic....Greyhounds are typically faster than other dogs...pitbulls are typically stronger.(Not comparing races to dogs)...but you could probably coach a team of Greyhounds to out mucsle a team of pitbulls....if that makes any sense. With Katy and SLC....there isn't usually one stud player that they try to build the team around..no individual player...it's a full team effort.

race has something to do with it -- but not all - is true. When I was playing basketball in college, we had to take a sports science course and the course talked about finances and medicine and race. One interesting aspect of the race factor is that if you look at athletes on the highschool or jr. high level it is pretty even - i mean SLC dominates 5a texas football that is supposed to be the best in the nation and they are what 80-90% white as a team? anyway - the professor talked about a theory that most of the white athletes aspire to be doctors or lawyers while most of the minorities aspire to be athletes and devote all their attention and effor to that pursuit. He spoke of how society has created this mold and it shouldn't be that way because minorities should believe that they will become doctors, scientists, lawyers etc instead of thinking that athletics is their only way to be successful. i don;t know how I feel about that theory - but it is a different angle on it.

I think race is overrated. In my experience playing ball with people, a lot of the brothers i played against liked to try and intimidate me - then i would dunk on them and that would be over. The polynesians I played against in the Big John Tournament - well that is more like Rugby with a basketball - they wanna fight all the time. If you can play - then you can play. Race is overrated - confidence is the key. Heck Larry Bird had no athletic ability at all and he lit people up his whole career -- and even he hated it when a white dude was guarding him --

I mean the 5a player of the year the past 2 years has been white and Argentina won the gold in basketball so what does that mean ?

[LoneStarProud]

I don't think it matters...consider this right now in the world...the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is a Chinese guy...and to top it all off we've got a woman kicking but in Nascar.:D

[wide-e-wide]

Heck Larry Bird had no athletic ability at all

You're pushing it just a bit with that comment.
Larry Bird could hit 99 out of 100 3's with his eyes closed and both feet glued to the court.

I'd say he had quite a bit of athletic ability.

[PurpleNation]

I don't think it matters...consider this right now in the world...the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest guy in the NBA is a Chinese guy...and to top it all off we've got a woman kicking but in Nascar.:D


Im sorry the best rapper by far is Lil Wayne(LOL). But the rest of your post is right(LOL)

[PurpleNation]

RT's mom makes the baseball game's very interesting. ;) She can be heard from the parking lot. :D Did you see her run out on the field when he got hurt in the PAM game this year?? That was funny.


I felt bad for Ralph during the PAM game that was embarassing beyond words. RT's mom was standing up next to me the whole time during the Cove game man she is loud. SLC should be more scared of her then Thomas making plays.

[dada]

Im sorry the best rapper by far is Lil Wayne(LOL). But the rest of your post is right(LOL)
Lil Wayne?????? Is he even the best rapper in New Orleans??:mad: First time I've heard that one...lol

[pack0808]

race has something to do with it -- but not all - is true. When I was playing basketball in college, we had to take a sports science course and the course talked about finances and medicine and race. One interesting aspect of the race factor is that if you look at athletes on the highschool or jr. high level it is pretty even - i mean SLC dominates 5a texas football that is supposed to be the best in the nation and they are what 80-90% white as a team? anyway - the professor talked about a theory that most of the white athletes aspire to be doctors or lawyers while most of the minorities aspire to be athletes and devote all their attention and effor to that pursuit. He spoke of how society has created this mold and it shouldn't be that way because minorities should believe that they will become doctors, scientists, lawyers etc instead of thinking that athletics is their only way to be successful. i don;t know how I feel about that theory - but it is a different angle on it.

I think race is overrated. In my experience playing ball with people, a lot of the brothers i played against liked to try and intimidate me - then i would dunk on them and that would be over. The polynesians I played against in the Big John Tournament - well that is more like Rugby with a basketball - they wanna fight all the time. If you can play - then you can play. Race is overrated - confidence is the key. Heck Larry Bird had no athletic ability at all and he lit people up his whole career -- and even he hated it when a white dude was guarding him --

I mean the 5a player of the year the past 2 years has been white and Argentina won the gold in basketball so what does that mean ?

SLC is more like 98 percent white not 80 or 90

[Rerun]

Anyone ever heard of SA Sam Houston(4A)???

Nah, didn't think so.

How about Boerne(4A) just outside of San Antonio??

Exactly.

Race doesn't matter. It is coaching.

[dragonsdaddy]

SLC is more like 98 percent white not 80 or 90
we have 4 starters who are black, until the injury bug hit one twin.

[dragonfootballfan]

we have 4 starters who are black, until the injury bug hit one twin.
4/22 = 18%

[PurpleNation]

Lil Wayne?????? Is he even the best rapper in New Orleans??:mad: First time I've heard that one...lol

I see you from houston so you probly a lil flip or Zero fan. Getting down to it Tra is my favorite.


:cool: im loked up now.

[Redneckn]

Interesting thread.

I'm actually surprised it has gone this far without anyone getting offended.

[pack0808]

4/22 = 18%


I was talking about the team as a whole from what i have seen. I have not seen SLC this year. In the past they looked at least 95 percent white.

[wide-e-wide]

Interesting thread.

I'm actually surprised it has gone this far without anyone getting offended.


I am offended.
There...now it's official.

[gldneagles]

did not even read the thread. just went straight to the end to post this.

THIS IS A STUPID AND INFLAMITORY QUESTION!!!

i will not even be back here to see the responses.

[Redneckn]

I am offended.
There...now it's official.



I knew it!!! Now the thread will have to be locked.

Wide. You need to not be so sensative...Nobody said Lufkin was a bunch of 1 eyed, tobacco chewing, uncle-daddy-earls... :D

[Redneckn]

did not even read the thread. just went straight to the end to post this.

THIS IS A STUPID AND INFLAMITORY QUESTION!!!

i will not even be back here to see the responses.


It's only inflamitory if YOU choose to let it be that way.
People who are offended by such conversations are seeking to be offended.

[dragonsdaddy]

I knew it!!! Now the thread will have to be locked.

Wide. You need to not be so sensative...Nobody said Lufkin was a bunch of 1 eyed, tobacco chewing, uncle-daddy-earls... :D
yet.

[Pineywoodsrooter]

Do white american take football to another level?

[Redneckn]

Do white american take football to another level?


The correct term is "caucasian american" or "Americans of European descent". Or, as I prefer: Americans.


Now to answer your question. I took a football with me up on the top level of a high rise apartment building I lived in. That was back in 1993. I took the football from the 9th Level where I lived up to the 20th level (top of building).

[wide-e-wide]

Do white american take football to another level?

Without the white American the tight end position would not be what it is today. Take time to thank Jay Novacek for perpetuating the stereotype of the goofy,clumsy white boy next time you see him.

3rd down and whatever...
Novacek is getting the ball...
everybody knew it...
and they still couldn't stop the big lanky slow white boy.

[wide-e-wide]

The correct term is "caucasian american" or "Americans of European descent". Or, as I prefer: Americans.


Now to answer your question. I took a football with me up on the top level of a high rise apartment building I lived in. That was back in 1993. I took the football from the 9th Level where I lived up to the 20th level (top of building).


KRS-One of Boogie Down Productions (a black man for those who are not familiar with him) once said.
"Why should a black person in America have to call himself an African-American.
Do white people call themselves European Americans?
So what it that this title says? That as a black man I am not actually an American? But instead an African that lives in America?
Call me black...I'm not from Zimbabwe...I'm from South Bronx"

That always made a lot of sense to me. Why would I call a man/woman who has lived their entire life in America...and three maybe four generations before him/her did the same....an African-American?
Hell...if anything they are more American than I am...my ancestors were in Munich,Germany 4 generations ago.
However...on my mother's side...I got 'em....Cherokee nation...I'd say they were here first and deserve the title American more than anybody.

It's politically correct BS man....just say black.

And while I am on this subject...when did it become racist to call a man...who is in fact from Mexico....a Mexican?....hell that's what he is!
I had that argument with someone a few months ago.

[PurpleNation]

Without the white American the tight end position would not be what it is today. Take time to thank Jay Novacek for perpetuating the stereotype of the goofy,clumsy white boy next time you see him.

3rd down and whatever...
Novacek is getting the ball...
everybody knew it...
and they still couldn't stop the big lanky slow white boy.


LOL. I dunno we got Gates now for the Chargers(LOL). My favorite TE in college is David Thomas in the NFL it would have to be Todd Heap. I like the way they play the game.

[pack0808]

I like Heath Miller for the Steelers. if the guy catches the ball you better get ready to get hit as a defensive player because he is mean with the ball and dishes out punishment. MY Cowboys and Steelers are both 7-5 now. If they do not get into the playoffs the playoffs will be boring for me. Oh yeah this is not the NFL section of the website. ;)

[pack0808]

edit

[KatyTigerDad0407]

Sorry, don't mean to deviate from football. I have a question. I'll get to it in a minute. If you are born here you are American(U.S.Citizen). I believe that is a true statement. Everytime I fill out paperwork for whatever the reason I am asked what race I am. Here is my question. Why is it important for the government,employer,school district, or anyone else to know what race I am?

Is it just a matter of demographics? Does it have something to do with medical issues?

Maybe this really needs to be in off topic discussions.

Sometimes I don't know what to put. Half white-trash Louisiana Coon-*** mixed with some San Antionio Tex-Mex. I just tell everyone I am a MUT.

[PurpleNation]

I like Heath Miller for the Steelers. if the guy catches the ball you better get ready to get hit as a defensive player because he is mean with the ball and dishes out punishment. MY Cowboys and Steelers are both 7-5 now. If they do not get into the playoffs the playoffs will be boring for me. Oh yeah this is not the NFL section of the website. ;)


Hell im a 49ers and Lions fan we have a combined 6 wins. I think its safe to say that we wont be going to the playoffs.

[GarlandOwl06]

I agree i think coaching is what builds highschool programs up. You look at the teams that are in the finals every year i.e. Katy, Carrol, SV, SW, Lufkin, and you look whos coaching them Dodge Outlaw......... thats why those teams are so good every year.

[Redneckn]

Sorry, don't mean to deviate from football. I have a question. I'll get to it in a minute. If you are born here you are American(U.S.Citizen). I believe that is a true statement. Everytime I fill out paperwork for whatever the reason I am asked what race I am. Here is my question. Why is it important for the government,employer,school district, or anyone else to know what race I am?

Is it just a matter of demographics? Does it have something to do with medical issues?

Maybe this really needs to be in off topic discussions.

Sometimes I don't know what to put. Half white-trash Louisiana Coon-*** mixed with some San Antionio Tex-Mex. I just tell everyone I am a MUT.


Honestly? They ask that for affirmative action and equal op. stuff. Regardless of your qualifications, you'll be chosen on your heritage.
Also, they do it for demographics. So they will know where to spend my hard earned cash, that they stole, at. That way the lazy bums that won't work can continue to not work and you and I can pay for it.

Also, it sometimes had to do with medical reasons. Like what kind of blood you can have. Since blood can't always be mixed.

So, there you have it. That is, more or less, why they always ask that. I have always refused to answer that question on grounds that I will be slighted if I do answer it.

[Winston]

Well, I hope I'm not too out of line to suggest that socioeconomic advantages are the strongest link to a winning program, but that seems to me like the real main advantage. I'm sure some of the folks from Southlake and Plano would be more than happy to expound on this at length here - or if you have time you can go back and read their threads from last week. Not saying it's a good or a bad thing.

[Redneckn]

Well, I hope I'm not too out of line to suggest that socioeconomic advantages are the strongest link to a winning program, but that seems to me like the main advantage. If these threads don't have a limit on the amount of posts they can have in them, I'm sure some of the folks from Southlake and Plano would be happy to expound on how those factors have contributed to the success of their programs here - or you can go back and read their threads from last week.


If we were talking about Louisiana, I would agree with you. I just don't really think that is the case here in Texas. Look at the success' of DallasCarter.
And I point out Louisiana. I take that back. Haynesville, a little 1A in the backwoods that ain't exactly rich, has a fairly stellar program year in and year out. They can compete with any team in the state of Louisiana for the most part. And I know, blah blah blah, Louisiana football. I'm just stating that I dont think money has much to do with it. It certainly can though.
And the Socio part, I don't know about that either. Because you can take SLC that is mostly White and Dallascarter that is mostly black and see that they both are contenders.
I think the success of a program is really more about the coaching that what it is anything else.

[KatyTigerDad0407]

That is what I love about football. It is color blind. Just my opinion, nothing else. When it comes to recruiting or being drafted, nobody cares what color you are. It is the merit system at it's best.

[PurpleNation]

That is what I love about football. It is color blind. Just my opinion, nothing else. When it comes to recruiting or being drafted, nobody cares what color you are. It is the merit system at it's best.

Amen

[theloneranger]

Common guys I MEXICAN so does that make us take soccer up "another level"?????? NO!! And I DRIVE A JETTA!!!!!:D

[NewSherriffInTown]

Of course you being Mexican doesn't raise the level of soccer...

USA is better now :-)


Anyway...


I'm very surprised and happy that this topic could last so long. I'm glad as football fans we aren't sensitive. I think eveyone made great points so far, even my boy, Wide.

However, I do not think sports are blind to color. Are there fast white athletes?? Obviously. Are there unathletic black "athletes?" Of course, but don't tell me that when a "white" team plays a "black" team, and people are breaking the game down that the first thing people say is...

"well team A cant match up with the team speed" just because they are the white team.

The other statement you hear alot is "Team B is too undisciplined to win" just because they are a "black" team.

Discipline comes down to coaching, not race.

The real question is...

How come SLC who is 88% white produces a lot of athletes compared to other "white" schools?

Is it hard work? Is it training? Is there athleticism just overhyped because of their offensive skills?

[theloneranger]

Of course you being Mexican doesn't raise the level of soccer...

USA is better now :-)


Anyway...


I'm very surprised and happy that this topic could last so long. I'm glad as football fans we aren't sensitive. I think eveyone made great points so far, even my boy, Wide.

However, I do not think sports are blind to color. Are there fast white athletes?? Obviously. Are there unathletic black "athletes?" Of course, but don't tell me that when a "white" team plays a "black" team, and people are breaking the game down that the first thing people say is...

"well team A cant match up with the team speed" just because they are the white team.

The other statement you hear alot is "Team B is too undisciplined to win" just because they are a "black" team.

Discipline comes down to coaching, not race.

The real question is...

How come SLC who is 88% white produces a lot of athletes compared to other "white" schools?

Is it hard work? Is it training? Is there athleticism just overhyped because of their offensive skills?
I know j/k but in all seriousness thats a hell of a commute sherrif!!!:eek:

[KatyTigerDad0407]

However, I do not think sports are blind to color.

The real question is...

How come SLC who is 88% white produces a lot of athletes compared to other "white" schools?

Is it hard work? Is it training? Is there athleticism just overhyped because of their offensive skills?
You made a point and then asked a question. I'm confused:confused:. Please clarify.

[RocketQB]

It's good to see that everyone is stating their opinion while remain politically correct. I do believe race is a factor to a certain degree. It appears that "Black American" athletes have a natural body structure which allows them to excel in the sports in which they participate. This does not mean all athletes will excel, but notice how many have natural, good muscle tone and definition. They can focus on building strength while the others work to strengthen and build muscles. With that said, I would agree that the program is what makes a team great, regardless of race. Judson is an ethnically diverse school with a long history of winning. What made their program so successful was the coaching staff and the focus & determination of the team not the color of their skin. Additionally, SV and O'Connor modeled their program after Judson. Why? Not because of the color of the skin of the ball players, but because the program worked and they wanted to make their program become a success as well. (Even though SV was quoted in the paper last season saying "They did not have any stars on the team. They were just a bunch of average white boys playing football.") So no matter what we say to remain politically correct, race always come into play. Like one other poster mentioned, if you see Team A (majority Black players) vs Team B (majority White players), the initial assumption is that Team A is going to win. Why? People see skin color and make assumptions.

[KatyTigerDad0407]

So no matter what we say to remain politically correct, race always come into play. Like one other poster mentioned, if you see Team A (majority Black players) vs Team B (majority White players), the initial assumption is that Team A is going to win. Why? People see skin color and make assumptions.Assumptions have nothing to do with talent and coaching. It is a thought process in your head, put there out of ignorance. When the game is played, coaching and talent wins the game not the color of your skin.

[NewSherriffInTown]

My point was that racial/genetic makeup obviously has an effect on football.

The questions had to do with Southlake Carroll's reputation as a team with athleticism everywhere. Either they are doing something differently, or the athleticism of their players is overhyped due to their offensive prowess.

[Firebird]

At some point, one has to ask questions about genetics. I am most interested in size. It is absolutely no question that to a large extent, your adult size is determined by your genes. If you have two tall parents, more than likely you will be tall. (There are, of course, all sorts of recessive genes, but generally speaking.) It helps to remember that race, at least as we know it is largely an artificial concept.

Any one who spends much time traveling can tell you that size and height among various ethnic groups varies greatly-- for instance, native Swedes, on average, are taller than native Japanese. This, too, is due to the predominant genetic make-up of any given population. At the extreme, you have African pygmies.

What is facsinating is that such thigs vary even within "races". Greeks are on average shorter than Scandinavians, though both are "white". It is ironic that people talk about sub-saharan Africa as "black", when in fact it is one of the world's most ethnically diverse regions--- with an astonshing array of genetic diversity as well.

In a sport like football, where size is at such a premium, it should not be surprising that ethnicities that have are genetically more likely to grow larger dominate, especially at the higher levels. Think about who you see dominating-- Northern Europeans, Polynesians, and African Americans-- all groups, that on the global spectrum, are on average taller, larger people.

continued

[Firebird]

On the other hand, Mexican-Americans-- most of whom have Central American Indian genes-- fall on the lower end when it comes to average size. Simply walk around the mall in McAllen, and you will notice that Mexican Americans are shorter than their northern European and African American counterparts. Genetic differences between ethnic groups do exist-- as so aptly evidenced by recurring inherited diseases that some groups suffer from, while others don't. It is nothing to be ashamed of

What people SHOULD be ashamed of, is denying scientific reality for the sake of political correctness. They SHOULD also be ashamed when they hijack science to try and advance their own crack pot views, and denigrate others because of race-- an artificial construct.

Of course, most importantly, we should remember that when it all boils down to it, every Homo Sapiens shares 99.99999% of genetic material. And, we should remember that the genes we are handed by our ancestors in no way determine our worth as people. That is determined by ourselves.

And, I can tell you, that as far as Rio Grande Valley football goes-- I grew up here, and many of our kids are operating from the misconception that they can not compete with African Americans. Our own ignorance-- not African Americans' supposed genetic superiority-- is our own worst enemy. It is attitude, not ethnicity that kills valley teams in the playoffs. How many state championships did Odessa Permian win with undersized, falt footed players?

[KatyTigerDad0407]

Firebird- 2 back to back great post. You really put everything into perspective for me. You make great arguements on bothsides of the race issue; except they really compliment each other while at the same time are understandable.

True insight.

[RocketQB]

KatyTigerDad0407 stated: "Assumptions have nothing to do with talent and coaching. It is a thought process in your head, put there out of ignorance. When the game is played, coaching and talent wins the game not the color of your skin."


You are right. Assumptions have nothing to do with talent and coaching, but assumptions (based on race) are made all the time. In all aspects of life, not just sporting events.

[lonny23]

Euless Trinity-Mixed(?)
Converse Judson-Im just not sure
Katy-White
SLC-White
SV-White
Lufkin-Black

But once again race has nothing to do with football. I do like the point were coaching is your main reason for success
Judson is always about 70% black, 20% Hispanic, and 10% white.

[SLCDad]

Do Aftican Americans take football to another level?

Not all of them; only those who are really, really good at football.

[SLCDad]

Judson is always about 70% black, 20% Hispanic, and 10% white.I'd say that if everyone bleached their hair it would be great for team unity.

[pack0808]

This is getting too deep!! All i know is this, There is great and awful mostly white teams, great and awful mostly black teams and great and awful mixed teams. So my conclusion, The color of your skin does not mean anything. Especially in highschool. I do notice this, If a great team is mostly white it is almost automatic that the public calls them a smart, disciplined team instead of a athletically talented team?? Even though they have 4.4 guys and big time athletes all over their team. (SLC) It is a stereotype a lot of the times.

[RocketQB]

(Even though SV was quoted in the paper last season saying "They did not have any stars on the team. They were just a bunch of average white boys playing football.").


You are so right Pack0808. (See my referenced quote above) If a majority "black" team wins, it's not a surprise. If a majority "white" team wins, it becomes so much more as if it's a big feat for a "white" team to be good.

[Ailani]

Assumptions have nothing to do with talent and coaching. It is a thought process in your head, put there out of ignorance. When the game is played, coaching and talent wins the game not the color of your skin.

But that "talent" is determined by your genetic make-up, i.e. the color of your skin. You're either born with 4.3 speed, or you're not. Whether you're gonna grow to be 6'5" isn't determined by how well you're coached, its determined by genetics. I think you're confusing talent with heart and determination.

[pack0808]

You are so right Pack0808. (See my referenced quote above) If a majority "black" team wins, it's not a surprise. If a majority "white" team wins, it becomes so much more as if it's a big feat for a "white" team to be good.


It is actually quite common lately so it should not be a surprise. SLC, SV, Katy, Westlake, The Woodlands etc between them they have over 10 title appearances and about 7 or 8 championship's in the last 10 years. :eek:

[Redneckn]

Like one other poster mentioned, if you see Team A (majority Black players) vs Team B (majority White players), the initial assumption is that Team A is going to win. Why? People see skin color and make assumptions.


I can say that I've never made that assumption. Not ever. And I don't know anybody personally that has. I have seen my ECA Eagles take the field against and all black DallasCarter and I thought, "all black team. gonna get ugly." And I was way wrong. WAY WRONG! They lost. Lost pretty bad. And did it with class that I had no seen before then or after then.

It really changed my mind on some things.


That is really when I realized that race has not one thing to do with how a team will play football.

[bubbacoach]

But that "talent" is determined by your genetic make-up, i.e. the color of your skin. You're either born with 4.3 speed, or you're not. Whether you're gonna grow to be 6'5" isn't determined by how well you're coached, its determined by genetics. I think you're confusing talent with heart and determination.
Being 6'5" and having 4.3 speed does not mean you will be a good football player.

[Ailani]

Being 6'5" and having 4.3 speed does not mean you will be a good football player.

You'e right. But its a big advantage you have.

[Redneckn]

But that "talent" is determined by your genetic make-up, i.e. the color of your skin. You're either born with 4.3 speed, or you're not. Whether you're gonna grow to be 6'5" isn't determined by how well you're coached, its determined by genetics. I think you're confusing talent with heart and determination.


While your genetic make up would determine a possible height and the potential for speed, the color of the skin has no bearing on this. I went venture to say that the amount of blacks and Whites that are over 6ft would be someone right around the same, per capita.
I think the rest of it is more of a social issue. The reason there are more fat White men per capita than fat black men has nothing to do with genetics, it has more to do with social cirmcumstances.

[bubbacoach]

Here are some breakdowns on the numbers at Judson right now. the team roster list:
38 Black 57%
17 White 26%
11 Hispanic 16%
1 Other 1%

The District Breakdown
44% Hispanic
26% White
27% Black
3% Other

And all this means nothing. The reason Judson has been successful over the last 30 years is not due to their ethnic makeup. The Schools at Judson are both economically diverse and ethnically diverse. What makes them good is a good program that sets their sights high each and every year and comes togethor and works towards it. Judson is typically not the biggest, fastest, or the strongest, but they believe and they play like they believe. As a former coach at Judson and just a coach in general I did not see skin color of my athletes. I saw them as people and football players. I will tell you that some of the best athletes I have seen come through Judon are not the guys you hear about being big time football players. The common thread I have seen that all good football players have is a work ethic, coachability, and are typically humble. Because when you think you are the thing then you sometimes do not work as hard as someone who is the real deal physically. Race has very little to do with it, coaching has a lot to do with it, and a belief in a system and yourself has the majority to do with it.

[stevefoxsc]

coaching makes a team, by this stero type shouldn't a team such as dallas carter win state year in and year out, race has no issue with how we'll you play sports... Though typically african americans are usally alittle more athletic compared to there colored counter part. Im gona assume the guy who made this just wounderd why the majority of sports were 90% african or somthing

[Ailani]

I think we may be talking about different things. It seems like people are saying that race isn't a determining factor as far as whether you have a good team or not. Or at least a good program. And to that, I agree.

But you can't help but notice that race plays a factor in who makes it to the NFL or elite colleges. Just look at the numbers. They don't lie.

My point is not to stir up trouble or to be controversial. But I always find that whenever the subject of race and athletics comes up, people either don't want to talk about it or say that race has NOTHING to do with it. And that clearly isn't the case. I appreciate this thread and like the way we've discussed this issue in a rational, respectful way. Political correctness has taken over our society to the point that no one wants to talk about things openly for fear of being ostrasized. And thats not a good thing.

[ktchamp97]

This is an excellent thread. It's very encouraging that we can discuss such issues intelligently and respectfully.

Great athletes take football to another level.

Not all African Americans are great athletes. The fact that there are more African Americans at skill positions in the NFL just means that there happen to be a whole lot more great athletes that happen to be African American than there are great athletes who happen to be white.

If you didn't know any better, and you put Adam Archuleta next to an unknowingly unskilled football player who is an African American of equal physical stature, guess who just about everybody would guess is the better player?...most people would be way, way wrong. Skin color has nothing to do with it.

If Warren Moon were coming out of high school today, he would probably be labeled a "dual-threat" QB and if John Elway were coming out, he'd probably be called a "drop-back passer", when really the labels should be reversed.

I pray for the day when we can stop applying labels to people based on their skin tone. If a guy happens to be black and he's a great athlete, he's not a great athlete because he's black...he's just a great athlete...and that's all that should be said.

[Ailani]

This is an excellent thread. It's very encouraging that we can discuss such issues intelligently and respectfully.

Great athletes take football to another level.

Not all African Americans are great athletes. The fact that there are more African Americans at skill positions in the NFL just means that there happen to be a whole lot more great athletes that happen to be African American than there are great athletes who happen to be white.

If you didn't know any better, and you put Adam Archuleta next to an unknowingly unskilled football player who is an African American of equal physical stature, guess who just about everybody would guess is the better player?...most people would be way, way wrong. Skin color has nothing to do with it.

If Warren Moon were coming out of high school today, he would probably be labeled a "dual-threat" QB and if John Elway were coming out, he'd probably be called a "drop-back passer", when really the labels should be reversed.

I pray for the day when we can stop applying labels to people based on their skin tone. If a guy happens to be black and he's a great athlete, he's not a great athlete because he's black...he's just a great athlete...and that's all that should be said.

Agreed!

[SLCDad]

Do African Americans take football to another level?

YES!!! http://www.angelfire.com/mb/markssigningbonus/johnoutlaw.JPG

[pack0808]

coaching makes a team, by this stero type shouldn't a team such as dallas carter win state year in and year out, race has no issue with how we'll you play sports... Though typically african americans are usally alittle more athletic compared to there colored counter part. Im gona assume the guy who made this just wounderd why the majority of sports were 90% african or somthing


stevefox the other sports are 90 percent african american?? Where did you get that?? div1a football is almost split exactly 50/50 and the NFL is 60/40 black MLB is still over 55 percent white Golf and Tennis (do those count??) 90 percent plus white. ;) Soccer- I am not sure but it is not mostly black The only sport that is way off is the NBA. 80 percent black at least. And besides, some of the worst football teams in hs i have ever seen have been all black. Means nothing. Look at some of those inner city teams they are horrible. Like i have said, there are great and bad mostly white, black, and mixed teams and race is not a big factor at all in winning.

[pack0808]

This is an excellent thread. It's very encouraging that we can discuss such issues intelligently and respectfully.

Great athletes take football to another level.

Not all African Americans are great athletes. The fact that there are more African Americans at skill positions in the NFL just means that there happen to be a whole lot more great athletes that happen to be African American than there are great athletes who happen to be white.

If you didn't know any better, and you put Adam Archuleta next to an unknowingly unskilled football player who is an African American of equal physical stature, guess who just about everybody would guess is the better player?...most people would be way, way wrong. Skin color has nothing to do with it.

If Warren Moon were coming out of high school today, he would probably be labeled a "dual-threat" QB and if John Elway were coming out, he'd probably be called a "drop-back passer", when really the labels should be reversed.

I pray for the day when we can stop applying labels to people based on their skin tone. If a guy happens to be black and he's a great athlete, he's not a great athlete because he's black...he's just a great athlete...and that's all that should be said.


Very true!! enough said

[pack0808]

Do African Americans take football to another level?

YES!!! http://www.angelfire.com/mb/markssigningbonus/johnoutlaw.JPG


:D

[baldtiger15]

One of the things I liked about playing sports is that when we played we weren't African-American, Caucasian, Latino, Native-American, European, Martian, or otherwise. We all played for the colors on our helmet, and for the name on the front of our jersey (not the one on the back). My dad has a picture of me at the starting line one year. I was the only white guy that made finals. it was a great photo in black and white, but it took him a while to explain to me why he thought the photo was significant. I didn't see color, I saw athletes. In a sense that is where athleticism began, the Olympic spirit of settling rivalry between nationality and just seeing who is the better competitor. I think this conversation is interesting, but a moot argument from any angle.

[badger95]

Well coached teams with good athletes will win everytime.

Chad Shroeder-led Westlake beat Vince Young's Houston Madison team in 2001. Madison had much more talent, but they were very undisciplined and could not handle a game they weren't dominating.

The next game, Reggie McNeal's Lufkin team overcame a halftime deficit to win the state title. You could see Lufkin's halftime adjustments and confidence in the second half.

There is a reason that you see the same teams year in and year out at the end of the season.

[WildcatFan]

To all you Jimmy the Greeks.

I think this thread is totally stupid. Teams are made up of one unit some with black, white, red, yellow and brown. The team with the best coaching, best ethic and best ability win.

A prime example if race was the only case then Dallas Carter would still be in the Playoffs.

[poppy]

how can anyone not think that black folk are not better athletes than white or mexican or asian....
how many people from india play for slc, katy, lufkin or that other team that katy is playing.
i'll bet not more than 20 or 30...:( :( :(

[pack0808]

how can anyone not think that black folk are not better athletes than white or mexican or asian....
how many people from india play for slc, katy, lufkin or that other team that katy is playing.
i'll bet not more than 20 or 30...:( :( :(


Man what?? Only poppy :confused: Guy is in his own world. Get of the shrooms poppy.

[HOOKEM]

I cannot believe someone posted this thread.
Bet you'll never see a thread that sais "Are white players smarter".
Every player is unique.


Red or yellow black or white they are precious in his site, Jesus loves the little children of the world.

[HOOKEM]

how can anyone not think that black folk are not better athletes than white or mexican or asian....
how many people from india play for slc, katy, lufkin or that other team that katy is playing.
i'll bet not more than 20 or 30...:( :( :(

Lame AA$$ argument. How many latino's would pound all other races in soccer. Just a product of their upbringing and surroundings.

[Firebird]

Football, however, is entirely different than soccer. In soccer, a short, yet incredibly athletic little man can be an outstanding player. Your average soccer team is not composed of giants.

In football, however, the best teams are (usually-not always) made up of not only phenomenal athletes, but also people that are much larger than the average person in American society.

Therefore, it should not surprise anyone that Mexican-Americans (who are on average smaller than most Polynesians, African Americans, and Anglos) are underrepresented in a sport that places such a premium on size (Chinese and Japanes Americans are underrepresented too). This is especially noticeable at the NFL level, less so in College, and even less in HS (where coaching and attitude play a far greater role).

It has nothing to do with athletic ability. Many of the Mexican Americans playing HS football are great athletes-- as evidenced by the fact that they go on to do significantly better in sports like track (Valley schools ocasionally win CC state championships), where size is not such an issue. Pound for pound; inch for inch, they are as good of athletes as their up-state counter parts.

Look at boxing-- in the lighter weight classes, Latinos of Indian descent are overrepresented, and can compete with any one. However, in the heavy weight ranks, they are not so well represented.

Unfortunatley, there is no "light weight" division in football. The big boys dominate.

And in HS, attitude, coaching, and environment all play a much larger role in shaping a great team than the inherent size advantage the Anglo and African American teams bring to the table.

[BigWhiteJake]

yeah this thread is totally bogus, i mean my god it wouldnt matter if texas had 19 white starters instead of 19 black ones.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
blacks are better...next thread please...i jsut wonder what UT alum would be like if mack pulled this for a starting lineup...
qb- nordgren
rb- scott ballew
wr- injured jordan shipley
wr- coy aune
wr- mark mccoy
te- DT
lt- adam ulatoski
lg- kasey studdard
c - sendlein
rg- will allen
rt- maybe half of justin blalock....

de- aaron lewis
de- robison
dt- tully janzsen
dt- 1/2 roy miller???
lb- eric hall
lb- eric foreman
lb- about 3/4 robert killebrew
jesus there isnt even a part white defensive back...

of course blacks (aka better athletes) make football better...thats like saying do rednecks improve nascar...hell yeah we're born with octane in our blood

[Redneckn]

Jake. Neither of you statements are true. I think any person could be great football players if they chose to be...Some people just want it more than others.
As for the NASCAR thing. Let me start this by saying that NASCAR is gay. So I won't discuss it. It is almost as bad as dirt track (circles) racing.
Drag Racing is a mans car sport. I've seen several black drag racers and they all were just as good as everybody else out there. If they were dedicated enough to be that good.

I just don't see where anybody could seriously think that a black player would be better. Explain it. And by that, I mean explain what it is that makes a black player any better than anybody else. I can put a paycheck on the fact that it has nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that he is genetically black.
It could be due to the fact that he is "socially" black though. That part, I won't dispute. But as far as the physicals of it, no way.

[bubbacoach]

Lame AA$$ argument. How many latino's would pound all other races in soccer. Just a product of their upbringing and surroundings.
Then why is soccer dominated by teams with high socioeconomics, that are primarily white teams? Why does the Valley not dominate in Soccer?

[bullrock]

Recneck, you need to change your name if you call NASCAR gay! Straight track my arse! Anyone can make a car go fast in a straight line on the track by themselves. Try doing so with half the race in a turn with 40 other cars on the track. You have no clue!!!

Neck, I am really being fecisuous (sp?) about racing with you. I do, howver, love my NASCAR. I've never been able to get into the straight race stuff.