Pinion the Avatar wtf bro

[svhorns]

why you doing me like that

[SLC]

http://www.5atexasfootball.com/forum/vB/image.php?u=8265&dateline=1230086717

ZOMG.... thats :Censor:ing hilarious.:D

[svhorns]

http://www.5atexasfootball.com/forum/vB/image.php?u=8265&dateline=1230086717

ZOMG.... thats :Censor:ing hilarious.:D

meh... I wouldn't expect ya'll to know what he did for my grandpa... but it's ok...

[stevefoxsc]

meh... I wouldn't expect ya'll to know what he did for my grandpa... But it's ok...

hush! You're gonna stir up the red necks!

[Pinion]

If you want to prop a photo of a mass murderer up as your avatar, that's your own business. Please dont try and make that p.o.s. out to be some kind of hero. I find it reprehensible and tasteless. Just as I do when people act like Charles Manson is some kind of folk hero.
The only difference between the 2 is that CM killed way way fewer than Che'.

[svhorns]

hush! You're gonna stir up the red necks!

if he wants a SHL he better know his latin history or he'll just be another ignorant gringo...

[Firebird]

I like Pinion's avatar. Che was a charlatan, a murderer, and helped to bring misery on Latin America for decades. He died like he deserved to. No matter what good things he might have done, the bad far outweighs it.

[svhorns]

If you want to prop a photo of a mass murderer up as your avatar, that's your own business. Please dont try and make that p.o.s. out to be some kind of hero. I find it reprehensible and tasteless. Just as I do when people act like Charles Manson is some kind of folk hero.
The only difference between the 2 is that CM killed way way fewer than Che'.

Nelson Mandela referred to him as "an inspiration for every human being who loves freedom" while Jean-Paul Sartre described him as "not only an intellectual but also the most complete human being of our age."

[Pinion]

if he wants a SHL he better know his latin history or he'll just be another ignorant gringo...

If trying to make a hero out of a murderer is required to have a SHL, I believe I just find me a white woman. I dont think you're right on that however. I know a lot of Hispanic people that realize who Che' was.

Gringo? rofl. Not very liberal of you to use such terms.

[Firebird]

Nelson Mandela referred to him as "an inspiration for every human being who loves freedom" while Jean-Paul Sartre described him as "not only an intellectual but also the most complete human being of our age."

Jean Paul Sarte is one of the great idiots of our times and Nelson Mandela has also lauded Moammar Quadafi.

[Pinion]

http://www.therealcuba.com/MurderedbyChe.htm

There ya go. Now get yourself all know'd up on Che' and his Marxist friends.

[jtk1519]

I like Pinion's avatar. Che was a charlatan, a murderer, and helped to bring misery on Latin America for decades. He died like he deserved to. No matter what good things he might have done, the bad far outweighs it.

This. Che was a criminal.

[ChanSHS]

The Motorcycle Diaries is a good movie.

Last time I checked, the majority of Latin American still loves the guy.

[svhorns]

we're all entitled to our own opinions... I'll look at him as Hero and ya'll can see him as the devil... doesn't bother me...

[Firebird]

The Motorcycle Diaries is a good movie.

Last time I checked, the majority of Latin American still loves the guy.


I talked to Latin America just the other day and they said you're wrong. :rolleyes:

[Firebird]

we're all entitled to our own opinions... I'll look at him as Hero and ya'll can see him as the devil... doesn't bother me...

You'll be dumb and uninformed and we won't be. I'm cool with that, too.

[svhorns]

This. Che was a criminal.

So was George Bush... but what do I know

[svhorns]

You'll be dumb and uninformed and we won't be. I'm cool with that, too.

like I said... my family had direct ties to Cuba and what actually happened there... you sir don't...

[ChanSHS]

I talked to Latin America just the other day and they said you're wrong. :rolleyes:

I didn't say it was a good thing but it's true. I've traveled through it and lived in Mexico for a while.

[Pinion]

So was George Bush... but what do I know

Obviously, you seem to have issues with democracy. Why are you here? Why America? Go to Cuba or Venezuela where you can live amongst like minded people. Only, I dont think the people there are so like minded. I think the want freedom and are being held hostage by leaders that keep them poor and un-educated. Keep then in constant fear for their lives. Leaders like Che'.

Seriously, I'm not trying to sound like an ***, but really. Why are you here? Because you want to spread Latin-style Socialism across this country?

[svhorns]

The Motorcycle Diaries is a good movie.

Last time I checked, the majority of Latin American still loves the guy.

I have that movie it is indeed a great movie...

Che: Part one just came out with Benicio Del Torres... I'm halfway through the movie it's pretty good too..

[Pinion]

like I said... my family had direct ties to Cuba and what actually happened there... you sir don't...

I work with a lady that has family in Cuba. They CANT leave. How's that right?

[Firebird]

like I said... my family had direct ties to Cuba and what actually happened there... you sir don't...

I note that they didn't stick around to see what Che and Co. brought them.

Your family ties are irrelevant to the matter at hand. The historical record is clear. Che was personally involved in killing scores of people for no other reason than their political views and social status. There have always been plenty of apologists who tout "personal knowledge" ready to coddle the monsters of this world.

[svhorns]

Obviously, you seem to have issues with democracy. Why are you here? Why America? Go to Cuba or Venezuela where you can live amongst like minded people. Only, I dont think the people there are so like minded. I think the want freedom and are being held hostage by leaders that keep them poor and un-educated. Keep then in constant fear for their lives. Leaders like Che'.

Seriously, I'm not trying to sound like an ***, but really. Why are you here? Because you want to spread Latin-style Socialism across this country?

you seem to know alot about me based on an avatar... I have no problem with the U.S it's a place where you can make money... easily... who doesn't want that? I'll make my money and I'll spread the wealth to the people who need it most... don't hate me because I'm not 100% european... don't hate me because my views are different... dont hate me because my families experience on this world are different than your loved ones...

[svhorns]

I note that they didn't stick around to see what Che and Co. brought them.

Your family ties are irrelevant to the matter at hand. The historical record is clear. Che was personally involved in killing scores of people for no other reason than their political views and social status. There have always been plenty of apologists who tout "personal knowledge" ready to coddle the monsters of this world.

my family ties are irrelevant... alright...

so your saying even though my Grandpa was there when all this was happening and what he saw and what he knew is totally irrelevant... riiiight... and I should trust you... someone who has no ties to any latin american countries at all... and bases his historical opinion on books and what he learns in school...

sorry but I'll take my grandpas word for it

[jtk1519]

So was George Bush... but what do I know

Who has W's image as their avatar?

[Pinion]

you seem to know alot about me based on an avatar... I have no problem with the U.S it's a place where you can make money... easily... who doesn't want that? I'll make my money and I'll spread the wealth to the people who need it most... don't hate me because I'm not 100% european... don't hate me because my views are different... dont hate me because my families experience on this world are different than your loved ones...

I never said I hated you. I hate very very few people. I dont know you to hate you. This isnt so much about your avatar, it's the fact that you idolize a mass murdering marxist.

I dont care if you're not 100% European. I dont care that I am. None of that has any bearing on anything.
True, I dont like your views. They're mis-informed and ignorant. They show your immaturity and inability to form rational thought.
I dont have a problem with people being here to make money. True enough, we all want that. I do have a problem with people breaking the laws of my country in order to be here. But that's a seperate issue completely. I have a problem with socialists being in my country in trying to tell me what I need to be doing with what's rightfully mine. If you want to work your butt off to make a lot of money and drive around handing it out to people, that's your right to do so. But dont expect me to do it. If people want money, they should work for it.
On that same note, since you seem to feel like we're all deserving (regardless of how we live our lives) when you get your next paycheck, you can drop half of that off to me.

[jtk1519]

my family ties are irrelevant... alright...

so your saying even though my Grandpa was there when all this was happening and what he saw and what he knew is totally irrelevant... riiiight... and I should trust you... someone who has no ties to any latin american countries at all... and bases his historical opinion on books and what he learns in school...

sorry but I'll take my grandpas word for it

Whatever your Grandfather experienced doesn't change the fact that Che was an unapologetic butcher. That is simply a fact.

[svhorns]

I note that they didn't stick around to see what Che and Co. brought them.

Your family ties are irrelevant to the matter at hand. The historical record is clear. Che was personally involved in killing scores of people for no other reason than their political views and social status. There have always been plenty of apologists who tout "personal knowledge" ready to coddle the monsters of this world.

My Grandpa owned Mercedes dealerships in Nicaragua and Cuba... he met my grandma in Nicaragua and moved there because of her... my grandpa is now 89 and she is 78 still happily married... they moved out of Nicaragua because of the sandistas...

[svhorns]

Whatever your Grandfather experienced doesn't change the fact that Che was an unapologetic butcher. That is simply a fact.

that's an opinion not a fact... you don't know the real story... you know of only what you hear... I know from direct communication...

[Pinion]

Also. Why did you imply that I hate you based on the fact that you're not white? What the hell does race have to do with anything here? I never brought it up or implied that somehow you (or anyone else) is somehow less than because they arent white.
Seriously. At least know how to properly play the race card before using it. Perhaps the one that's racist was the one that made the accusation in the first place.

[jtk1519]

that's an opinion not a fact... you don't know the real story... you know of only what you hear... I know from direct communication...

Ummm... no, it is an undeniable fact. Che murdered many people. This is something even his fluff-pieces bios admit to. The only thing up for debate is how you rationalize his murders.

[svhorns]

I never said I hated you. I hate very very few people. I dont know you to hate you. This isnt so much about your avatar, it's the fact that you idolize a mass murdering marxist.

I dont care if you're not 100% European. I dont care that I am. None of that has any bearing on anything.
True, I dont like your views. They're mis-informed and ignorant. They show your immaturity and inability to form rational thought.
I dont have a problem with people being here to make money. True enough, we all want that. I do have a problem with people breaking the laws of my country in order to be here. But that's a seperate issue completely. I have a problem with socialists being in my country in trying to tell me what I need to be doing with what's rightfully mine. If you want to work your butt off to make a lot of money and drive around handing it out to people, that's your right to do so. But dont expect me to do it. If people want money, they should work for it.
On that same note, since you seem to feel like we're all deserving (regardless of how we live our lives) when you get your next paycheck, you can drop half of that off to me.

I don't tell you what you need to do with your money that's your business... not mine... I'll make my money and distribute to who I think needs it most... because what I give... I get back in respect... and that means a lot more to me than some paper money...

[svhorns]

Ummm... no, it is an undeniable fact. Che murdered many people. This is something even his fluff-pieces bios admit to. The only thing up for debate is how you rationalize his murders.

the same way americans rationalize bush's murders... at least Che gave back to the people and was the voice of the people... and didnt send out 18 year olds on suicide missions...

[Pinion]

I don't tell you what you need to do with your money that's your business... not mine... I'll make my money and distribute to who I think needs it most... because what I give... I get back in respect... and that means a lot more to me than some paper money...

And that's fine.
But your socialist agenda doesnt agree with you. And your being a fan of Che' makes it pretty damn clear what your agenda is.

I agree about respect being a far greater thing than money.

[Firebird]

my family ties are irrelevant... alright...

so your saying even though my Grandpa was there when all this was happening and what he saw and what he knew is totally irrelevant... riiiight... and I should trust you... someone who has no ties to any latin american countries at all... and bases his historical opinion on books and what he learns in school...

sorry but I'll take my grandpas word for it


I have sat and listened to a very kindly elderly gentleman explain to me in his living room that the greatest and most fair society he has ever experienced was in the 1930's while Josef Stalin was systematically killing millions of people in forced labor camps. Che was no different from him, the only difference is that he got killed before he could do more damage. The world was a better place after the Bolivians riddled his body with bullets. There will always be aplogists for dictators and murderers, and it appears as though your grandpa is one of them.


To send men to the firing squad, judicial proof is unnecessary. These procedures are an archaic bourgeois detail. This is a revolution! And a revolutionary must become a cold killing machine motivated by pure hate

The above quote from the man himself says all you need to know about him.

[svhorns]

Also. Why did you imply that I hate you based on the fact that you're not white? What the hell does race have to do with anything here? I never brought it up or implied that somehow you (or anyone else) is somehow less than because they arent white.
Seriously. At least know how to properly play the race card before using it. Perhaps the one that's racist was the one that made the accusation in the first place.

I didn't imply you were racist... you implied that yourself... I said don't hate me because of the fact I'm not 100% euro... color is not of importance...

[Firebird]

My Grandpa owned Mercedes dealerships in Nicaragua and Cuba... he met my grandma in Nicaragua and moved there because of her... my grandpa is now 89 and she is 78 still happily married... they moved out of Nicaragua because of the sandistas...

They had to flee Nicaragua becaue of a revolutionary socialist movement that would not have survived without assistance from the Cuban regime Che helped put into place. Some deep irony there.

[Firebird]

the same way americans rationalize bush's murders... at least Che gave back to the people and was the voice of the people... and didnt send out 18 year olds on suicide missions...

Was he the voice of the hundreds he ordered to be shot without trial? How about the many 18 year old would be revolutionaries that he inspired to take up arms? A lot of them bit the dust.......

[svhorns]

And that's fine.
But your socialist agenda doesnt agree with you. And your being a fan of Che' makes it pretty damn clear what your agenda is.

I agree about respect being a far greater thing than money.

I'm a fan of Che for my own reasons... it could differ from another fan of Che... we all have our own reasons... I put him as my avatar and you retaliated in hate... did I hate on your views.. no... so why hate on mine...

[Pinion]

I'd love stay and talk about this more, but I'm really pretty damn sick and I need to get my stuff packed for the trip.

SV, I want you to know (and I dont care if you care or not) that people like you are the exact reason why I walked away from everything Skin/head. It took me years to realize that we can all get along and we can all be united as one. We can. We can have a nation where there are not white people, black people, brown people. We can just have people. We can just have Americans. I completely believe that we can and we will.

So while this has nothing to do with the Che' conversation, it really bothers me that you feel like I may hate you because you're not white. I have spent and still do spend a lot of time making sure I dont see what color someone is. I want to see their culture and understand it and I want them to see mine and understand it. I consider alot of people on this board to be my friend. Maybe I havent actually shook but a few hands, but a lot of you people are friends to me. I spend a lot of time here kicking it and hanging out with you. That accusation hurt dood. I'm hoping it was a spur of the moment comment with little thought behind it.

I gotta get out here. Too much to do before the sun comes up. Catch y'all tomorrow when I get to work.

[jtk1519]

the same way americans rationalize bush's murders... at least Che gave back to the people and was the voice of the people... and didnt send out 18 year olds on suicide missions...

again, you're the only one with a murderer in your avatar. I suppose if somebody pops up with a W avatar, what you are saying will be relevant. Right now it's nothing more than deflection of murderer-worship.

[svhorns]

I'd love stay and talk about this more, but I'm really pretty damn sick and I need to get my stuff packed for the trip.

SV, I want you to know (and I dont care if you care or not) that people like you are the exact reason why I walked away from everything Skin/head. It took me years to realize that we can all get along and we can all be united as one. We can. We can have a nation where there are not white people, black people, brown people. We can just have people. We can just have Americans. I completely believe that we can and we will.

So while this has nothing to do with the Che' conversation, it really bothers me that you feel like I may hate you because you're not white. I have spent and still do spend a lot of time making sure I dont see what color someone is. I want to see their culture and understand it and I want them to see mine and understand it. I consider alot of people on this board to be my friend. Maybe I havent actually shook but a few hands, but a lot of you people are friends to me. I spend a lot of time here kicking it and hanging out with you. That accusation hurt dood. I'm hoping it was a spur of the moment comment with little thought behind it.

I gotta get out here. Too much to do before the sun comes up. Catch y'all tomorrow when I get to work.

I wish I could express myself freely without getting attacked... but it doesn't work that way... because my reasons will never be good enough for people to change their minds about what they think... your a cool dude... but I wish I could put up an avatar and not feel hated for it... that is all...

[jtk1519]

I wish I could express myself freely without getting attacked... but it doesn't work that way... because my reasons will never be good enough for people to change their minds about what they think... your a cool dude... but I wish I could put up an avatar and not feel hated for it... that is all...

I wish you could engage in a debate about your idolizing an unapologetic murder without making it personal. Nobody here hates you because you are trying to rationalize the crimes of a terrorist.

[svhorns]

again, you're the only one with a murderer in your avatar. I suppose if somebody pops up with a W avatar, what you are saying will be relevant. Right now it's nothing more than deflection of murderer-worship.

I have no problem with people who like Bush... I used to but I realized they're just different and have had different experiences... they might have met him... he might have helped out their families... but at the same time he could be considered a murderer to... but every leader at one point has had to order a murder for their own reason...

you can look at him as murderer I look at him as a friend of the family...

[Firebird]

I wish you could engage in a debate about your idolizing an unapologetic murder without making it personal. Nobody here hates you because you are trying to rationalize the crimes of a terrorist.

This. Even though your avatar exposes some questionable taste if not done as a joke, no one here has said anything about hating you.

[jtk1519]

I have no problem with people who like Bush... I used to but I realized they're just different and have had different experiences... they might have met him... he might have helped out their families... but at the same time he could be considered a murderer to... but every leader at one point has had to order a murder for their own reason...

you can look at him as murderer I look at him as a friend of the family...

But again, nobody around here has W in their avatar. Your bringing him up constantly out of the blue is bizarre to say the least.

[svhorns]

I wish you could engage in a debate about your idolizing an unapologetic murder without making it personal. Nobody here hates you because you are trying to rationalize the crimes of a terrorist.

I wish that were possible... but when you come out calling him a murderer and when it's 3 against 1 you feel like your pinned against the wall... I put up the avatar for my own reasons... and Pinion retaliated for his own reason... I know if the circumstances were flipped... I wouldn't say a word... If I saw a Bush avatar I would let that person be...

[Firebird]

I wish that were possible... but when you come out calling him a murderer and when it's 3 against 1 you feel like your pinned against the wall... I put up the avatar for my own reasons... and Pinion retaliated for his own reason... I know if the circumstances were flipped... I wouldn't say a word... If I saw a Bush avatar I would let that person be...


Pinion didn't say a word. Pinion put up his own avatar expressing his views and you felt compelled to call it out. You didn't let him be. You had to know that putting up the avatar of an admitted murderer who espoused a completely discredited and murderous ideology would get a reaction. Don't try to say that you didn't want to stir the pot.

[jtk1519]

I wish that were possible... but when you come out calling him a murderer and when it's 3 against 1 you feel like your pinned against the wall... I put up the avatar for my own reasons... and Pinion retaliated for his own reason... I know if the circumstances were flipped... I wouldn't say a word... If I saw a Bush avatar I would let that person be...

So you have a problem with me calling an admitted and unapologetic murderer a murderer. Yeah, that makes sense.

[svhorns]

Pinion didn't say a word. Pinion put up his own avatar expressing his views and you felt compelled to call it out. You didn't let him be. You had to know that putting up the avatar of an admitted murderer who espoused a completely discredited and murderous ideology would get a reaction. Don't try to say that you didn't want to stir the pot.

I didn't know ya'll would freak out about it because in my mind he's not the villain you make him out to be...

Pinion immediately put up the avatar after I did... that is what I would call retaliation... and I ask why he did that...

I didn't want to stir up any pot... I didn't know ya'll thought he was the devil...

[jtk1519]

I think I'm going to start sporting a Hitler avatar. After all, I am of German decent and Hitler did do a lot of good for "my people" (I'll conveniently ignore all the bad he did for "my people"). He gave back to his people. At least that's what I will say to rationalize his barbaric crimes.

[svhorns]

So you have a problem with me calling an admitted and unapologetic murderer a murderer. Yeah, that makes sense.

I have no problem with that... that is your opinion... opinions differ... especially in different countries... my family thinks completely the opposite than what you think of the man... he might have murdered some people but so has every other Major political leader... I put the avatar up for my own reasons... he helped my family that is all... if you don't like that than I'm sorry

[yankee]

I think I'm going to start sporting a Hitler avatar. After all, I am of German decent and Hitler did do a lot of good for "my people" (I'll conveniently ignore all the bad he did for "my people"). He gave back to his people. At least that's what I will say to rationalize his barbaric crimes.

i won't hate on you, i promise.

[jtk1519]

I didn't know ya'll would freak out about it because in my mind he's not the villain you make him out to be...

Pinion immediately put up the avatar after I did... that is what I would call retaliation... and I ask why he did that...

I didn't want to stir up any pot... I didn't know ya'll thought he was the devil...

You didn't think a man who admitted to and bragged about being a murderer and dragged most of "his people" to war, dictatorship and poverty would be viewed as a bad person? Seriously?

[jtk1519]

I have no problem with that... that is your opinion... opinions differ... especially in different countries... my family thinks completely the opposite than what you think of the man... he might have murdered some people but so has every other Major political leader... I put the avatar up for my own reasons... he helped my family that is all... if you don't like that than I'm sorry

So your justification for mass murder is "everyone does it". I see.

[Firebird]

I think I'm going to start sporting a Hitler avatar. After all, I am of German decent and Hitler did do a lot of good for "my people" (I'll conveniently ignore all the bad he did for "my people"). He gave back to his people. At least that's what I will say to rationalize his barbaric crimes.

Without Uncle Joe's brave leadership, Mrs. Bird would be speaking pidgin German and working as slave labor for Germans in a coal mine. So I guess I'll start sporting Stalin. He sure did me a steady back during the Deuce.

[svhorns]

I think I'm going to start sporting a Hitler avatar. After all, I am of German decent and Hitler did do a lot of good for "my people" (I'll conveniently ignore all the bad he did for "my people"). He gave back to his people. At least that's what I will say to rationalize his barbaric crimes.

My dad is German... but Hitler is nowhere near Che... he didn't want to destroy a religion...

[Firebird]

My dad is German... but Hitler is nowhere near Che... he didn't want to destroy a religion...

He only wanted to destroy anyone who disagreed with his politics. No, the two are nothing alike. Killing people because they worship differently is so much worse than doing it because they want a different political regime.

[svhorns]

You didn't think a man who admitted to and bragged about being a murderer and dragged most of "his people" to war, dictatorship and poverty would be viewed as a bad person? Seriously?

he didn't drag anyone to war... they were all voluntary... like the Tennessee Volunteers

[Firebird]

he didn't drag anyone to war... they were all voluntary... like the Tennessee Volunteers

How about the other side?:rolleyes: I guess they signed up for it, too.

I find it amusing that he died like a dog in Bolivia having failed to convince a single Bolivian that his cause was worth fighting for.

[jtk1519]

My dad is German... but Hitler is nowhere near Che... he didn't want to destroy a religion...

You're splitting hairs now.

[BDB]

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2008/9/1/633558562116225920-ironyyouspendyourentirelifecombattingtheforcesofca pitalismonlytoenduponagaptshirt.jpg

[svhorns]

He only wanted to destroy anyone who disagreed with his politics. No, the two are nothing alike. Killing people because they worship differently is so much worse than doing it because they want a different political regime.

he didn't want to destroy anyone... he wanted to give Cuba back to the Cubans... before it was taken over by the American Imperialists... The Americans saw lots of money in Cuba... its the same thing that's happening in Iraq... it's all for money and Oil and he said no... that's not happening

[Firebird]

http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2008/9/1/633558562116225920-ironyyouspendyourentirelifecombattingtheforcesofca pitalismonlytoenduponagaptshirt.jpg

This.

[jtk1519]

he didn't drag anyone to war... they were all voluntary... like the Tennessee Volunteers

And the US military is a voluntary one, so there goes your W is a criminal claim. Amazing how easy it is to justify murder when the person committing the murders is doing so on "principal"... no matter how destructive that "principal" may be.

[Firebird]

he didn't want to destroy anyone... he wanted to give Cuba back to the Cubans... before it was taken over by the American Imperialists... The Americans saw lots of money in Cuba... its the same thing that's happening in Iraq... it's all for money and Oil and he said no... that's not happening

Really? So all that talk about letting the blood of the bourgeouis run in the streets was just idle chatter, I guess. Of destroying the counter-revolutionaries. He also was furious with the cooler heads in Moscow for not launching a nuclear holocaust during the missle crisis. He went on record saying that he would have let the missiles fly if he had been in charge.

For all his talk about the evil Americans, he sure didn't kill many. That was all Cubans that faced his firing squads. What a coward.

[jtk1519]

he didn't want to destroy anyone... he wanted to give Cuba back to the Cubans... before it was taken over by the American Imperialists... The Americans saw lots of money in Cuba... its the same thing that's happening in Iraq... it's all for money and Oil and he said no... that's not happening

Is this the same Iraq we have announced plans to leave? Great example.

And Castro has done great for Cuba. WAY TO GO CHE! You created a third world country ruled by a communist dictator. Awesome.

[svhorns]

Is this the same Iraq we have announced plans to leave? Great example.

And Castro has done great for Cuba. WAY TO GO CHE! You created a third world country ruled by a communist dictator. Awesome.

All I can tell you is find an old Cuban guy... ask him for the truth...and you shall receive....
.

[Firebird]

All I can tell you is find an old Cuban guy... ask him for the truth...and you shall receive....
.

Most Cuban emigres hate Che and Fidel Castro. They have been reliable Republican voters since they arrived. WTF are you talking about?

Go ask the old cranks that still rally around Lenin square with Red Banners what they think of Stalin. I guess since they were there they are right, huh?

[svhorns]

Really? So all that talk about letting the blood of the bourgeouis run in the streets was just idle chatter, I guess. Of destroying the counter-revolutionaries. He also was furious with the cooler heads in Moscow for not launching a nuclear holocaust during the missle crisis. He went on record saying that he would have let the missiles fly if he had been in charge.

For all his talk about the evil Americans, he sure didn't kill many. That was all Cubans that faced his firing squads. What a coward.

Not all Americans are evil... he didnt say that and I will never say that... not one single person on this earth is completely good nor bad... everything will balance out when it's said and done... it's the law of nature... the law most humans forget...

[svhorns]

Most Cuban emigres hate Che and Fidel Castro. They have been reliable Republican voters since they arrived. WTF are you talking about?

Go ask the old cranks that still rally around Lenin square with Red Banners what they think of Stalin. I guess since they were there they are right, huh?

I know what I'm talking about... being republican or democrat has nothing do with it...

[Firebird]

I know what I'm talking about... being republican or democrat has nothing do with it...

Facts are facts. Most Cuban immigrants in the United States dislike the Castro regime and the people who put it there. Why the hell do you think they are here?

[jtk1519]

All I can tell you is find an old Cuban guy... ask him for the truth...and you shall receive....
.

Really? You remember that I am from Florida right? A state populated by millions of old Cubans who fled Castro and Che firing squads. Nowhere will you find more anti-Castro/Che sentiments than in the old Cubans who fled for their lives decades ago.

[Firebird]

Not all Americans are evil... he didnt say that and I will never say that... not one single person on this earth is completely good nor bad... everything will balance out when it's said and done... it's the law of nature... the law most humans forget...

1. No, we aren't all evil, just the ones he wanted to shoot nuclear missiles at.

2. I am unaware of this law of nature you are speaking about whereby all good and bad in a person balances out. Is this similar to the any of the laws of physics? Or is it a "law" of the half-baked philosophy of the type of person who thinks Che was a pretty cool cat? I suspect the latter.

[jtk1519]

I know what I'm talking about... being republican or democrat has nothing do with it...

If Cuban immigrants were so fond of Castro and Che's Cuba, they wouldn't be immigrants. There's a reason people have risked their lives for decades to flee Cuba and it aint because they love American cigars.

[jtk1519]

1. No, we aren't all evil, just the ones he wanted to shoot nuclear missiles at.

2. I am unaware of this law of nature you are speaking about whereby all good and bad in a person balances out. Is this similar to the any of the laws of physics? Or is it a "law" of the half-baked philosophy of the type of person who thinks Che was a pretty cool cat? I suspect the latter.

I'm still trying to figure out what balances out mass murder by firing squad.

[Firebird]

I'm still trying to figure out what balances out mass murder by firing squad.

A super cool poster and some scribblings in a journal you wrote while traveling across Latin America on a motorcycle.

[svhorns]

Facts are facts. Most Cuban immigrants in the United States dislike the Castro regime and the people who put it there. Why the hell do you think they are here?

Money... they see the fame and fortune... they think money is what makes you happy...

firebird you seem to know alot more about this than most people... not that it matters but I'm getting curious of your age because your typical 20 something usually has no clue...

[Firebird]

Money... they see the fame and fortune... they think money is what makes you happy...

firebird you seem to know alot more about this than most people... not that it matters but I'm getting curious of your age because your typical 20 something usually has no clue...

It's all those fancy books I read. :rolleyes:


And I hate to break it to you, but many of those Cubans were motivated by far more than just money. Fear of death in a stinking prison cell being one of those things.

[svhorns]

not that it matters because I'm debated out... but Cuba has free education for all... and for all ages... at all levels... there is no paying to learn...

[svhorns]

It's all those fancy books I read. :rolleyes:


And I hate to break it to you, but many of those Cubans were motivated by far more than just money. Fear of death in a stinking prison cell being one of those things.

same can be said here... we have people who are sentenced to the death penalty for crimes they never committed...

[Firebird]

not that it matters because I'm debated out... but Cuba has free education for all... and for all ages... at all levels... there is no paying to learn...

They also have free work stooped over in a rice paddy for your whole life without pay.

[Firebird]

same can be said here... we have people who are sentenced to the death penalty for crimes they never committed...

Funny thing though, those people got a trial, something that your boy deemed outdated and imperialistic.

[jtk1519]

Money... they see the fame and fortune... they think money is what makes you happy...

firebird you seem to know alot more about this than most people... not that it matters but I'm getting curious of your age because your typical 20 something usually has no clue...

Dude, walk the streets of Miami's Little Havana. Go to Versailles Restaurant on Calle Ocho where the old men still refer to Che as "the butcher of La Cabana". Go to the Calle Ocho street festival where native Cubans still speak out against the oppression brought about by Che and his murderous rampage. There are literally millions in South Florida who fled not for money, but for their very lives and the lives of their children. They fled what Che created. The obvious sign that Che was a rousing success.

[svhorns]

Funny thing though, those people got a trial, something that your boy deemed outdated and imperialistic.

I guess...

thanks for the conversations fellas... I seem to learn a lot this way... I have questions to ask my grandpa now whom I can't really speak with because I have to have it translated through my mom... I don't think he's gonna be around much longer and I rarely have the opportunity to have conversations with him...

I'm just looking for truth... and in all honesty the avatar was not to stir the pot...

[jtk1519]

not that it matters because I'm debated out... but Cuba has free education for all... and for all ages... at all levels... there is no paying to learn...

And they get what they pay for.

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/8877/93596043xo5.jpg

[svhorns]

Dude, walk the streets of Miami's Little Havana. Go to Versailles Restaurant on Calle Ocho where the old men still refer to Che as "the butcher of La Cabana". Go to the Calle Ocho street festival where native Cubans still speak out against the oppression brought about by Che and his murderous rampage. There are literally millions in South Florida who fled not for money, but for their very lives and the lives of their children. They fled what Che created. The obvious sign that Che was a rousing success.

people will have different opinions on the situation... not every Cuban thinks like my Grandpa and not many had the opportunity to meet with Che...

JTK i'll pm you sooner or later about those cubans you speak of...

[jtk1519]

people will have different opinions on the situation... not every Cuban thinks like my Grandpa and not many had the opportunity to meet with Che...

JTK i'll pm you sooner or later about those cubans you speak of...

I can't stand Miami, but I always liked visiting because Cuban food is really good and because I was always amazed at the pride and love the Cuban people had for their native country and how much it literally pained them to speak of their country which they were forced to leave. My lasting image of Miami is of an old man at the street festival passing out "Free Cuba" fliers. He literally wept when he spoke of Cuba and how it had been "taken from him". I must have been about 8 and didn't understand anything. That is the first time I heard the name Che Guevara and it is a name despised there the same way the Jews despise the name Adolf Hitler.

[Warbird]

This one was over before it began. Good job, boys.

[svhorns]

This one was over before it began. Good job, boys.

it sure was